WEBVTT 1 00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:31.440 Welcome back to the path went Chili. 2 00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:36.000 I'm Robin, I'm Jules, and I'm Ashley. Let's dive right 3 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:37.280 into this week's case. 4 00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:43.799 October eighth, two thousand and nine, Latimer County, Oklahoma, forty 5 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:46.840 four year old Bobby Jamison, his forty year old wife 6 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:50.560 Sherylyn Jamison, and their six year old daughter, Madison Jamison 7 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:53.439 leave their house to look at land in a remote 8 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:58.399 mountainous area, but never return. Eight days later, their abandoned 9 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:01.920 pickup truck is discovered on a road, but even though 10 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:05.159 the family's dog is locked inside and a bag containing 11 00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:08.319 thirty two thousand dollars is hidden under the driver's seat, 12 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:13.359 the Jamisons are missing. In twenty thirteen, the skeletal remains 13 00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:17.079 of Bobby, Sheryland, and Madison are discovered less than three 14 00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:20.120 miles from where their truck had been part but since 15 00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:23.680 the authorities are unable to determine an exact cause of death, 16 00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:27.400 no one knows what actually happened to them After that. 17 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:31.879 The Path went chilly, So today recovering a highly requested 18 00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:34.760 case involving a couple and their young daughter. The two 19 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:38.680 thousand and nine disappearances and subsequent deaths of the Jamison family. 20 00:01:39.159 --> 00:01:41.239 This is a case which is technically considered to be 21 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:44.200 a half solved mystery because even though the Jamisons were 22 00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:47.079 found after being missing four years, we still don't have 23 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:50.319 any idea how they died. In case you're not familiar 24 00:01:50.359 --> 00:01:52.879 with it, this is the baffling story of Bobby and 25 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:56.200 Cheryl and Jamison, a married couple who decided to travel 26 00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:58.560 out to a remote mountainous area with their six year 27 00:01:58.599 --> 00:02:02.280 old daughter, Madison. They never returned, and their abandoned truck 28 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:05.359 would be discovered over one week later. The Jamisons had 29 00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:08.319 apparently traveled to this location to see about purchasing a 30 00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:10.800 plot of land, but their dog and most of the 31 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:14.199 personal items were found locked inside the truck, including a 32 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:17.919 bank bag containing thirty two thousand dollars in cash. The 33 00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:20.879 Jamisons have remained missing for the next four years until 34 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:23.400 the remains were discovered in the same area less than 35 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:26.520 three miles away, but enough time had passed that no 36 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:29.240 one could determine the exact cause of death for any 37 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:32.680 of the three victims. It's possible the entire family was 38 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:35.840 killed by an unknown party, but since Bobby and sheryln 39 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:38.520 had been displaying a lot of erratic behavior prior to 40 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:42.240 their disappearances. It's also possible that some sort of murder 41 00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:45.759 suicide took place. This is one of those missing persons 42 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:48.840 cases in which the discovery of the victims remains only 43 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:52.199 raised more questions than answers. So we're going to explore 44 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:55.240 all the different scenarios about what happened on today's episode. 45 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:59.599 This is already one of the more horrific crimes we've 46 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:02.919 talked about, or cases we've talked about. When we look 47 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:05.680 at this. You have a family of three that goes 48 00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:10.719 missing and it's not till four years later they're discovered deceased. Now, 49 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:13.400 what strikes me is really odd or two things at 50 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:17.599 the scene. The thirty two thousand dollars that's under the 51 00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:21.319 seat in a money bag and the family dog logged 52 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:24.319 in the car. For two reasons, if you were going 53 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:26.599 to go on the run, why not get the dog 54 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:29.039 set aside in a boarding kennel or having a family 55 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.599 friend take care of them with the promise of returning, 56 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:34.319 and they just don't return because the dog would be 57 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:37.319 taken care of. And two, if you got that kind 58 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:39.360 of money out or you were hoarding that kind of 59 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:41.960 money to go on the run. Then why, all of 60 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:45.719 a sudden is everyone deceased? So do you guys are 61 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:47.960 will you be telling me more about the money and 62 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:49.639 why that cash could have been there? 63 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:52.639 Oh? Yeah, definitely. And it is most certainly one of 64 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:55.439 the most baffling details of this case because regardless of 65 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:58.599 whether it was suicide or homicide buy an outside party, 66 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:00.919 we really don't know why they had all that money 67 00:04:00.919 --> 00:04:03.240 there and why he was left behind in the vehicle. 68 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:05.800 Yeah, his career would have to be something where he's 69 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:08.360 dealing in cash on large scales for it to make 70 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:10.599 any kind of sense, because that's a lot of money. 71 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:12.879 And to say that it's just sitting in the car 72 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:15.319 while all of a sudden they go missing, it's almost 73 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:18.120 like there was a plan to leave. But then when 74 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:21.120 they're deceased, if they were already planning to be deceased 75 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:23.680 or like to do a murder suicide, why take the 76 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:25.600 money out. It's just very very confusing. 77 00:04:27.879 --> 00:04:31.040 Our story begins in Oklahoma in two thousand and nine. 78 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:34.639 Our central figures our forty four year old Bobby Jamison 79 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:38.319 and his forty year old wife, Sherilyn Jamison, who have 80 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:41.199 been together for seven years and live in a lakeside 81 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:43.879 house in the small town of Ufaulla with her six 82 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:48.040 year old daughter, Madison Jamison. Shrilyn also has a twelve 83 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:51.160 year old son from a previous marriage named Coulton what 84 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:54.360 her ex husband, who lives in Oklahoma City, took full 85 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:57.600 custody of him in July this year. On the morning 86 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:00.839 of October eighth, the Jamisons left their residents in their 87 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:03.720 four door pickup truck and took their puppy dog, Maizie 88 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:06.639 along with them. They were planning to travel to a 89 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:10.560 rural area located in Latimer County next to the Sans 90 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:13.839 Bois Mountains. In fact, the family already took a trip 91 00:05:13.879 --> 00:05:17.120 to this area the previous day, as Bobby had expressed 92 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:20.040 interest in selling their house and purchasing a forty acre 93 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:23.720 plot of land he read about on the internet. However, 94 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:27.079 the Jamisons never returned home this time, but this did 95 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:30.319 not immediately raise any alarm bells, since they were known 96 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.839 for being a very private family who would sometimes disappear 97 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:36.560 off the radar and not contact people they knew for 98 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:40.439 long periods of time. Bobby and Sherilyn had also recently 99 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:43.959 pulled Madison at a school to prepare her for homeschooling, 100 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:47.279 so her absence wasn't noticed and the family was never 101 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:52.759 officially reported missing. However, on October sixteenth, eight days after 102 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:56.600 they were last seen, hunters discovered the jamisons abandoned pickup 103 00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:59.839 truck on a remote one way dirt road in Latimer County. 104 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:03.000 The truck was parked near the top of Panola Mountain 105 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:06.199 in a densely wooded area, which was a short distance 106 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:09.720 south of the town of Kinta and about thirty miles 107 00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:14.040 away from the Jamison residence in Ufaula. Bobby's Schrylyn and 108 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:17.399 Madison were nowhere to be found, but their dog, Maizie, 109 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:21.319 was locked inside the truck. Maisie was so mild nourished 110 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:24.480 that she was dying of starvation and had been eating 111 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:28.639 her own feces to stay alive. Thankfully, when the Latimer 112 00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:31.720 County Sheriff's Office was summoned to the scene, they broke 113 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:34.720 the glass and rescued Maizie, and she wound up making 114 00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:38.160 a full recovery before she went to live with Bobby's mother, 115 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:42.040 Starlet Jamison. Even though the Jamisons were missing and the 116 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:45.439 vehicle was in perfect working order, most of the family's 117 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:52.800 personal possessions including their identification wallets, Shreland's purse, cell phones, coats, maps, 118 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:56.639 empty prescription pill bottles, and a GPS unit were left 119 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:59.680 behind inside the truck while the truck was locked. The 120 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:02.360 keys himself could not be found, and there were no 121 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:06.279 signs of any struggle led a broken glass. However, the 122 00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:10.279 most surprising discovery was a bank bag containing thirty two 123 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:13.639 thousand dollars in cash, which is found hidden underneath the 124 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:16.920 driver's seat and had been concealed by some of Bobby's tools. 125 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:19.680 Okay, so let me ask you guys this, are we 126 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:22.480 going to go more into the careers or the backgrounds 127 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:23.240 of mom and dad. 128 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:26.079 We are, and spoiler alert, but it turns out they 129 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:28.000 don't have the careers that they were both living on 130 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:29.720 disabilities at this point. 131 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:32.279 Okay, fantastic, because I was going to ask two things. 132 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:34.639 When you talk about the fact that Sherilyn has a 133 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:36.920 twelve year old son from that previous marriage who now 134 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:41.399 lives with dad, that's not completely abnormal, but it takes 135 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:45.120 a lot to assign full custody to the dad, and 136 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:47.120 that part kind of raised a red flag for me. 137 00:07:47.560 --> 00:07:49.800 A twelve year old in some states has the right 138 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:52.600 to say which parent they would prefer to live with. 139 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:55.639 But that's just one part of the equation. And to 140 00:07:55.879 --> 00:07:59.759 say a parent loses complete access in any kind of 141 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:03.079 to their child, it's not like ninety ten or you know, 142 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:06.040 mom can visit on holidays or something like that. He 143 00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:09.680 gets full custody of the sun. That's unique when you 144 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:14.240 talk about moms losing full custody. Also, when you talk 145 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:19.000 about homeschooling, that is a big undertaking that requires mom 146 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:22.000 and dad to feel pretty confident that they can homeschool 147 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:24.600 and educate their child just as well, if not better 148 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:27.480 than the schools that they'd be going to. And so 149 00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:30.279 my question was, like, you know, is mom have a 150 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:33.759 background in education? Do mom and dad have like a 151 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:36.279 kind of lifestyle where they want to expose her to 152 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:39.000 traveling or those kinds of things. But I have a 153 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:40.600 feeling I'm going to find out that may not be 154 00:08:40.679 --> 00:08:41.120 the case. 155 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:44.000 Yeah, we'll get into more detail about this later, but 156 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:46.120 you're going to learn that Bobby and Sherylyn do not 157 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:48.440 seem to be in the best place mental health wise 158 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:50.960 during this time period. And this is one reason why 159 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:54.120 they have not discounted the possibility of a murder suicide. 160 00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:57.440 Most families, you would probably never even think that, but 161 00:08:57.559 --> 00:09:00.919 because they were acting very strangely around time period, it 162 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:02.399 hasn't been ruled out. 163 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:06.960 Did you ever see anything about the financials, Robin, because 164 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:09.600 I've always thought it was really strange with this case, 165 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:12.600 how they were living in like this beautiful lakeside house 166 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:15.480 and they somehow had the money to be able to 167 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:17.879 go and purchase this plot of land. I know they 168 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:22.519 were both on disability, but it seemed like they living 169 00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:25.039 inside a house like they were living and then having 170 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:26.879 a good chunk of money like they would have been 171 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:30.279 living outside whatever would have been coming in, do you 172 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:30.879 know what I mean. 173 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:33.279 Yeah, we talk about this a bit later. But they 174 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:36.679 did get a bit of money during a settlement because 175 00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:38.879 Bobby had been in an accident, so I think that 176 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:41.320 does account for at least the cash they were carrying. 177 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:43.639 But it is true that it is odd that they 178 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:46.200 were living in kind of a nice house and that 179 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:49.600 because obviously they weren't making much money income because they 180 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:52.480 were on disability and they were not employed. So I 181 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:54.519 don't know if maybe one or both of their families 182 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:57.279 were providing some financial support that allowed them to live 183 00:09:57.320 --> 00:09:59.360 on their own. But yeah, it does seem like they 184 00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:01.360 were living above their means. 185 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:04.200 Because I don't know what houses go for and you follow, 186 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:08.039 but pretty much anywhere you are, if your lakeside is 187 00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:09.879 going to be expensive. 188 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:13.240 Oh yeah, waterfront property would definitely be much more ssve 189 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:14.320 than a regular property. 190 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:17.879 There was a local resident who had cross paths with 191 00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:20.879 the Jamisons on a winding dirt road on October the seventh, 192 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.159 the day before they went missing. Since they had got lost, 193 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:27.600 Bobby stopped to ask the resident for directions. He also 194 00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:29.759 asked a number of questions about what it was like 195 00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:31.720 to live in the area and build a home there, 196 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:34.080 and the witness thought the family appeared to be in 197 00:10:34.120 --> 00:10:37.960 good spirits. Another local resident, who lived about a quarter 198 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:40.360 mile away from the spot where the pickup was found, 199 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:43.360 would report having seen the Jamisons driving in that direction 200 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:46.120 on October the eighth, but never saw them leave or 201 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:49.559 were called seeing anyone else head towards that area. Over 202 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:52.559 the course of the next eight days, other witnesses remembered 203 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:55.399 having seen the pickup truck parked at that spot, but 204 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:57.679 since it was near an oil well, they figured the 205 00:10:57.720 --> 00:11:01.679 truck probably belonged to a work crew. Curiously, a search 206 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:04.039 of Bobby's phone record showed that his cell phone had 207 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:07.559 made an outgoing call to its voicemail on October the twelfth. 208 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:12.039 Investigators also checked GPS coordinates on the phone, which led 209 00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:14.120 them up a hill which was close to the truck, 210 00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:17.080 and they noticed footprints on the ground, some of which 211 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:21.000 obviously belonged to Madison since they were child size. The 212 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:24.200 footprints and the GPS coordinates eventually led to a large 213 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:27.080 rock near the top of the hill. A search of 214 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:30.320 Bobby's cell phone would uncover a photograph of Madison standing 215 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:32.320 in front of this rock, with her mouth open and 216 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:34.960 her arms crossed over each other in an odd position. 217 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:38.320 Since Madison appeared to be looking away from the camera, 218 00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:41.320 some of the family's friends and relatives believed that she 219 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:45.080 looked frightened and uncomfortable, possibly because the photo was being 220 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:48.360 taken by someone else besides their parents, whom she did 221 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:51.840 not know. In spite of this, the police did think 222 00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:54.879 that the Jamisons managed to walk back down the hill 223 00:11:54.919 --> 00:11:57.240 and climb into their truck, and may have attempted to 224 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:01.679 drive away before something happened. Even though Latimer County Sheriff 225 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:05.000 Israel Beecham would launch a massive search operation in the area, 226 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:07.720 surrounding the truck. It failed to turn up any trace 227 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:09.519 of Bobby, Cherylyn or Madison. 228 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:13.919 Okay, so I just google this picture of little miss Madison, 229 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:17.440 and when I look at it, I have several questions. 230 00:12:17.679 --> 00:12:19.799 I think it depends on which lends you're looking at 231 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:24.240 this from and what Madison's other pictures look like. When 232 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:29.120 you see her little face, she does have an unusual 233 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:33.240 an unusual facial reaction to the picture. 234 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:33.480 Right. 235 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:36.080 She's not having her traditional little smile or things like that. 236 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:40.639 But also children at that age smile weird like sometimes. 237 00:12:40.679 --> 00:12:43.039 I remember I tell Reagan, like, just a normal smile, honey, 238 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:47.399 don't be weird, just smile right like this, and I'd 239 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:50.559 have to show her because she just had an odd. 240 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:52.120 Look on her face when she took pictures. 241 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:56.200 So they're learning how to express themselves and to make, 242 00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:59.279 you know, a cute little smile on camera. I'm wondering 243 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:02.679 if there were any other photos found where she looks 244 00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:07.360 normal and she's smiling a cute little smile. The arms 245 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:10.399 crossed look very unnatural to me, and the fact that 246 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:12.759 her little shirt isn't fitting her well, it almost looks 247 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:15.399 like a child who's neglected, who's not being cared for. 248 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:20.399 So again it makes me wonder was that a byproduct 249 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:23.559 of mom and dad and their mental condition or financial 250 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:25.960 condition at the time that they couldn't get her little 251 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:29.919 clothes that'd fit. Also possible her little arms cross her 252 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:31.720 pulling her shirt up, but it looks like the shirt's 253 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:33.480 too small on her, and that maybe her little pants 254 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:38.399 are too small too. If someone had her, it's possible 255 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:41.000 that they would have had her for four days, because 256 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:43.600 you guys said October eighth, we have somebody saying they 257 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:46.960 saw them, and that phone calls made October twelfth to 258 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:50.919 the voicemail. So I could see it being a very 259 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:55.440 scary situation if maybe mom and dad had been deceased 260 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:58.320 and somebody else had her for those four days, keeping 261 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:01.240 her alive and taking that picture of her. But then 262 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:04.519 you say something to the effect of the police believed 263 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:06.000 that they might have walked back down the hill and 264 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:09.159 climbed into their truck to try to drive away. Yet 265 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:11.679 when they find the truck again, it doesn't look like 266 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:14.919 there's any struggle, and all of their personal belongings are 267 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:18.480 sitting right there, So it's confusing if they got stopped 268 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:20.600 and there's a struggle to get them out of the car, 269 00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:23.039 that's one thing, But the way the car was left, 270 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:25.519 it seemed like everything was almost buttoned up, and then 271 00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:27.879 the family walks away, it never comes back. What made 272 00:14:27.879 --> 00:14:29.879 them think maybe they came back down. 273 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:34.440 I guess it was the fact that maybe they saw footprints, 274 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:36.879 or maybe they thought that there were like tire tracks 275 00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:39.639 to indicate that they tried to drive a short distance 276 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:41.279 after they made it back to the truck and then 277 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:44.399 for whatever reason, stopped again and got out. Perhaps if 278 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:47.440 they were being confronted by an unknown party who decided 279 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:50.080 to kill them or lead them away from the scene. 280 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:53.240 When you look at all the evidence, there really isn't 281 00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:57.000 a scenario that makes a lot of sense. Because obviously, 282 00:14:57.039 --> 00:15:00.919 because Madison's photograph was taken, hear that rock, But the 283 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:03.840 cell phone was found inside the truck at some point 284 00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:06.720 somebody had to come back down there and put the 285 00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:08.679 truck put the cell phone in there. But you have 286 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:11.159 to wonder, why would an unknown third party do this, 287 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:14.720 take this one photograph and then not even keep the phone. 288 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:17.679 But that photograph has been the subject of so much 289 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:21.360 interpretation from so many different people, and I think if 290 00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:24.120 Madison had not gone missing, no one would find anything 291 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:26.759 unusual about it. But because it's the last known photo 292 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:28.559 of her, people have just looked at it in so 293 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:29.480 many different ways. 294 00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:33.399 And do you guys think the family the family's alluding 295 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:35.480 to the fact that this looks bizarre, Like it's not 296 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:36.919 just she's in that awkward state. 297 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:40.360 I don't know, like it would depend. Like you said, 298 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:44.080 I have seen some other photographs of Madison online and 299 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:47.320 none of them look like particularly unusual or that much 300 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:50.600 different from this one. But I should notice that you 301 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:52.879 are probably the first person I've seen point out that 302 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:56.360 her shirt is too small for I've seen so much summary, 303 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:58.159 but you're the first person who's brought that up. But 304 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.639 that could be a sign that she was being neglected, 305 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:03.240 because the Bobby and Cheril and at this point did 306 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:05.360 not sound like people who are keeping track of their 307 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:07.879 child's clothing and going out to buy her new stuff 308 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:08.759 to make sure it fitter. 309 00:16:09.639 --> 00:16:11.600 That's just as that's the mom and me. When I 310 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:13.559 see little ones that like going to school and their 311 00:16:13.559 --> 00:16:16.000 little pants are too short or their little shirts too 312 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:18.919 short or too tight, I think, bless their hearts, because 313 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:21.120 it's a possible mom and dad just can't afford to 314 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:25.200 or aren't in the middle state to provide what that 315 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:27.440 baby needs. But it's one of the first signs you 316 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:30.320 can see outwardly that a baby's not being cared for 317 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:32.440 the way they you would want them to be, right, 318 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:35.240 to feel confident and safe and things like that. 319 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:38.720 I wouldn't be very confident that people that can't take 320 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:43.200 care of their children in that capacity would have the 321 00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:46.559 ability or like the fortitude to be able to home 322 00:16:46.679 --> 00:16:49.639 school them in the way that would prepare them for 323 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.679 the education that they may want to have later. 324 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:55.519 Right, unless you were telling me that maybe there's like 325 00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:58.759 this religious angle where they're highly religious and they don't 326 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:00.799 want her in public school, or there's some kind of 327 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.039 like we're doomsday preppers and we're trying to keep her 328 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:07.519 away from mainstream things like I've seen people's mental health 329 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:11.880 struggles play into that decision too. But then do they 330 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.640 truly provide the care and the need and the education 331 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:18.559 that that child needs. Oftentimes not right, like the motivations 332 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:21.640 they are un understandable. But then you start to look at, well, 333 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:24.000 what can you provide for that baby, and it's not 334 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:26.720 the safe learning environment that they need. 335 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:32.160 Since the Jamison's had security cameras, installed outside of their residence, 336 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:36.440 which pointed directly at the driveway. Sheriff Beacham watched the 337 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:39.680 footage of them preparing to leave on October eighth. It 338 00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:43.079 showed Bobby and Sharlyn making at least twenty trips back 339 00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:45.759 and forth between the house and their pickup truck in 340 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:48.599 order to load it with items, and oddly, they would 341 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:53.000 sometimes move the same items multiple times. The couple did 342 00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:55.720 not seem to speak or acknowledge each other while this 343 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:59.440 was going on, and Sheriff Beaucham described them as appearing 344 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:02.440 to be in a trance like state, as they would 345 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.359 sometimes just stop and stare with vacant looks on their faces. 346 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:08.920 One of the most curious details about the footage is 347 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:12.359 that it showed Sharlyn loading a brown briefcase into the truck, 348 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:14.880 as his case was not present when the truck was 349 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:19.160 discovered and has never been accounted for. In addition, Charlyn 350 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:21.799 owned a twenty two caliber pistol and may have been 351 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:24.160 carrying it when she left, but it could not be 352 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:27.319 found in the truck or the house. When Sheriff Beecham 353 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:30.559 had a psychologist examine the surveillance footage to analyze the 354 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:34.079 Jameson's behavior. He seemed to believe that Bobby and Schrilyn 355 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:38.279 were under the influence of drugs, possibly methamphetamine, which was 356 00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:42.279 very prevalent in Oklahoma during that time period. However, no 357 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:45.440 traces of meth or any other drugs or drug related 358 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:49.359 paraphernalia could be found in the truck or the Jamison residence, 359 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:52.680 and it's never been conclusively proven if they were involved 360 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:54.480 in illegal drugs in any way. 361 00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:57.880 Well, it's difficult to say that they were when you 362 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:01.000 don't have any kinds of signs of a pipe or 363 00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:04.480 a spoon or anything found in the truck. If they 364 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:06.799 were going away and they were drug addicts, I feel 365 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:10.039 like you would find something in that truck that alluded. 366 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:10.960 To the use of drugs. 367 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:13.480 I also think you have to step back and look 368 00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:16.880 at the side effects of mental health episodes when people 369 00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:21.039 are manic or they're in, you know, extremely depressive episodes 370 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:22.880 or things like that. They can also function in a 371 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:27.079 trance like state. But when you look at the kiddo's pictures, 372 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:30.400 it almost seems like if drugs were an issue, it's 373 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:34.000 possible that the child was exposed to that as well. 374 00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:36.759 That could explain the oddness of the photo. But I 375 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:40.799 looking at this don't see drug use at that moment, 376 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:44.440 because again, you would have found something in that truck. 377 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:46.160 If these are addicts on the run, if these are 378 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:48.640 people about to escape, If these are people who are 379 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:51.519 planning to be away for four days and they use drugs, 380 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:54.480 likelihood is they'll need their drugs before they get home 381 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.759 and they found nothing, So to me, I'd be leaning 382 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:00.400 more towards could this be something of a middle health 383 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:04.319 break instead of a drug addiction or kind of a 384 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:07.799 drug induced state that could be causing that fixed trance 385 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:08.359 like stare. 386 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:10.119 I've run into. 387 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:12.039 People who are in the middle of a mental health 388 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:15.559 breakdown and they'd look through you, they don't make eye 389 00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:18.720 contact with you. There's very little ability to get their 390 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.680 attention back to what you're talking about. So I think 391 00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:23.039 that's a possibility as well. 392 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:26.279 I one hundred percent agree with that. I think that 393 00:20:26.359 --> 00:20:29.480 it is far more likely that it's a mental health 394 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:33.599 episode rather than drugs, because I just don't think that 395 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:36.880 you know, regardless of which drug the person is using, 396 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:41.240 that they are going to actually care enough if they're 397 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:44.920 using meth on a regular basis to scrub every little 398 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:48.680 trace of meth from their home and also their vehicle. 399 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:51.920 If you're not finding any evidence of that drug, I 400 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:54.759 would say that meth would cause a pretty chaotic state 401 00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:57.960