Speaker 1: Appreciate it.
Speaker 2: H h, how like one both of our ends from
your microphone on the cap from my microphone.
Speaker 1: I hold on, I hold on one second. Let me
come back over here. I don't know why am I
computer to take picture data? Move a little slow? Uh?
Let me show advanced options. I don't know.
Speaker 3: So right now I have noise suppression on and echo
cancelation on.
Speaker 1: Let me see if I turn this on.
Speaker 3: But if you can give me a one, if y'all
can hear me, I'm trying to just make sure I
connect to the brother's live stream.
Speaker 1: Let me click this again. Let me bring this over
here this way.
Speaker 4: Mm.
Speaker 3: And I'm what I'm doing now is I'm just I'm
just setting up to see if oh wait, I might
not have had.
Speaker 1: The right speakers. Maybe that'll do it all right, Let's see.
Speaker 5: Now, virtual background, I got my virtual background.
Speaker 3: Now, let's see now, Hey, I'm good man. Let me
know if I'm I was sounding now.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I'll put usually default to my road.
Speaker 1: But it didn't default. Is using.
Speaker 6: So a quick little thing for you guys. So I
send both of you guys the format of the debate.
We're gonna have a four minute max opening statements. I'll
be timing it. I'll give you guys a thirty second
warning when it's getting down to you know, when it's
at three minutes and thirty seconds, I'll let you guys
now just say thirty seconds left and then from there
we'll do two minutes for arguments and two minutes for responses.
So if Captain you, you know, stayed to point, you
got two minutes to speak and then you know, Jay
will get to respond for two minutes, and we'll do
that for sixteen minutes total. Uh, then it's just gonna
be it's gonna go over to open dialogue for forty.
Speaker 7: Five minutes back and forth.
Speaker 6: Right after the right after that, then we're gonna do
We're gonna do closing statements for four minutes max.
Speaker 7: And if we need to extend anything.
Speaker 6: So if it gets a little hostile dial and stuff
like that, you guys talking over one another, one of
you can request for uh, back to one minutes or
two minutes statements, you know, a time time rebuttals. You
can request that and I'll go ahead and adhere to it,
and we'll do it that way. You guys wanna stay
for super chats and things of that sort or or no,
I'm good, you're good, what about you? Okay, so we'll
tackle the super chats at the end. Other than that, man,
I'll start off with the I don't have a lot.
I'm not even playing my intro right forget no Fulgazy intro.
This this is for you guys. So I'm just gonna
open it up. I'm just gonna say, hey, welcome to
Noful Gazy Podcasts. And and then I'm gonna bring one
of you on. I'm gonna bring both of you on
a stage at the same time. So we're gonna get
right down to it. Okay, all right, man, I'll go
ahead and put you guys backstage and we'll get started.
Speaker 8: All right, mhm, right right.
Speaker 3: Hey guys, So he's just so yeah, I know he's
about to start the live stream. It's gonna be between
myself and Jay Dyer. He's an Orthodox Christian. Should be
interested to see how this goes. Of course, make sure
you thumb up the video be greatly appreciated. To help
the algorithm. You can give you a super chat. If
y'all super chatted a question, I'll see if I get
Fugazy to actually answer the question on his live. But
if you super chat the question and it doesn't get
asked on No fu Gazy's podcast, I'll answer it when
this debate is over.
Speaker 6: Welcome to No Fugazy Podcast. I am your host Coolly.
Tonight we have a special debate tonight. We have Captain Tazariyak,
a Hebrew Israelite, versus Jay Dyer, a Christian Orthodox. Let's
hop right into it. We're not even playing my intro.
Let's hop right into it.
Speaker 7: Let's get it ready to.
Speaker 6: All right, fellas, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to Noflgazy podcasts.
Speaker 7: Both of you brothers.
Speaker 6: So backstage we went ahead and went over the format
of the debate for the audience. Let me go ahead
and give that to you guys as well. So the
format and the title of this debate is going to
be is Orthodox. It is Christian Orthodoxy true. Jay Dyer
will be defending his position against Captain Czariak, a Hebrew Israelite.
The format of the debate is going to be four
minute opening statements with two minutes for arguments and responses.
So that's going to be time. We're going to do
that for sixteen minutes. Right after that is done, we're
going to move over to open dialogue of forty five
minutes back and forth blood Sport debate, and then we're
going to do four minute closing statements. After that, we'll
go ahead and I'll read the super chats and get
your guys perspective on the debate.
Speaker 7: So, since I do believe.
Speaker 6: Jay will be taking the affirmative position, we normally allow
the people that takes the affirmative position to go first.
Speaker 7: But Captain, are you okay with that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? How have you wanted to go and find?
Speaker 7: Okay, Jay Jade? That's cool with you.
Speaker 5: It is remind me explicitly what the proposition was.
Speaker 1: I was it phrased?
Speaker 7: Yes? Is Christian orthodoxy true?
Speaker 1: Okay? Right?
Speaker 5: So if we want to say Christian orthodoxy is true,
then we would want to know if it lines up
with the historic promises written in the Old Testament prophecies
about a time coming when the gentile nations would worship
together with the ancient Hebrew people the God of Israel.
We have passes for example, Isaiah sixty one through three,
Isaiah sixty eleven and twelve, Isaiah forty two twelve, Jeremiah
three fourteen to eighteen Hoseiah one tend to eleven, Malachi one,
tend to eleven, Joel three. Isaiah continues in many other passages.
I'm just giving these as examples. Many of the Psalms.
For example, David ris in Psalm forty four, excuse me,
Psalm seventeen or eighteen, opinion on which whether using masoretic
or the sob tuagen Psalm twenty two, Psalm twenty eight,
Psalm fifty six, Psalm sixty eight eight, Psalm fifty nine,
nine to ten, et cetera. Dozens and dozens and dozens
of passages in the Old Testament predict an era that
when the Messiah comes, the gentile nations will begin to
come in and convert.
Speaker 1: In fact, latter Isaiah.
Speaker 5: Even prophesies that gentile kings and queens will come and
present gifts and offerings to the Messiah. In Daniel two,
we have a prediction that when the Messiah comes, it
will be in the empire under which this final stage
of the destruction of Jerusalem. If you compare that with
Daniel nine, twenty four to twenty seven occurs, that the
Messiah will be present when the temple administration is done,
and that the Messiah will set up a kingdom at
his first advent that will grow and conquer all of
the other kingdoms and nations. Again, that's Daniel two in
the prophecy of the stone that's cut out without hands,
that destroys all of those other kingdoms we know from
the New Testament. In many places, such as Matthew one,
Romans one, those all describe the fact that Luke one
and two as well, that when the Messiah came, who
is Jesus Christ, he is the fulfillment of all of
those Old Testament prophecies and the idea that the Gentile
nations will begin to pour into this newly founded spiritual
Israel aka what Paul calls into Glatians sixteen the Israel
of God, that it would set up, that he would
set up a kingdom Matthew sixteen sixteen to eight three eighteen,
and in Matthew eighteen eighteen that the apostles would have
a rulership in this kingdom.
Speaker 1: These apostles are also.
Speaker 5: Spoken of in the Book of Matthew as being the
progenitors of a new Israel which would open its doors
to the Gentile nations. When we read the Book of
Acts as the church is empowered after Pentecost, fulfilling Joel three.
In Acts two, we have the disciples opening it up
the kingdom again there to the gentile nations. This is
a fulfillment of all these Old Testament prophecies and the
fulfillment of the fact that in Matthew, Jesus says that
the gentile nations will come and sit down with the
prophets with Abraham and Moses, and they will dine together
in the kingdom. This is a covenental meal. This is
the New Testament eucharistic liturgy and meal that is set
up wherein Jesus rules in his church through that marriage
supper of the Land, which is the Orthodox divine liturgy.
That is a culmination that's written of in the Book
of Revelation that we actually celebrate on a weekly basis
in the Orthodox Church. The Orthodox Church, thus from the
earliest days of the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth,
seventh centuries all the way through those early councils, means
the exact same doctrine that the apostles and their immediate
successors hold to. Thus, if the Church, the kingdom that's
set up in the first seven centuries after the Advent
of the Messiah believes and teaches what we teach, and
we can go verify that very easily, very quickly when
we reach got post Apostolic fathers like Cyprian, like Irenaeus,
like Athanasius and others. They all teach the same thing
as the Orthodox Church. Thus, the Orthodox Church is a
fulfillment of all of those Old Testament prophecies, and the
Black Keeper Israelite cult, which is a recent invention, could
in no way possibly be a fulfillment of any of them.
Speaker 6: All right, time, right on time, All right, kat, I
went ahead and reset the timer for you.
Speaker 7: Once you start speaking, I'll start.
Speaker 1: Birdman hands rubbing together.
Speaker 3: Christian Orthodoxy right, Christian or Orthodox Christians believe a lot
of things that I disagree with the gentleman, and I
think all of his time speaking about gentile salvation meaning
non Israelites. That's something that we as the Hebrew Israelites
or Israelites, we don't really use. The term black Hebrewlites
referred to as replacement theology. The one thing that Christ
said in John eight and thirty two, you shall know
the truth, and the truth shall set you free. And
he said he don't believe it on me is the
scriptures have said. And what we know of the Church
Fathers is number one. They did not agree. They didn't
agree on the divinity of Christ, they didn't agree on circumcision,
they didn't agree on the law.
Speaker 1: They didn't agree on a lot of things.
Speaker 3: So the Church Fathers cannot have more authority than the Bible.
And nowhere in the Bible, while you're gonna see non
Israelites are gonna be saved. In the same book of Daniel,
it says the Saints shall take the kingdom. And Isaiah's
sixty my opponent made it seem like the kings is
gonna be calmly and nicely bringing gifts. No, they're gonna
do it by force, because in his wrath he smite us.
But in this mercy he gave us power. So there's
a way that you take power. And Jeremiah fifty one
and twenty it says, with Israel is my battle acts.
Speaker 1: With it, I will break in pieces the nations.
Speaker 3: So I know Christians they like to make it seem
like Christ is coming back to bring cookies in ice cream,
But he is not. He's not coming here to bring fluff.
He's coming here to bring war and revelations. The nineteen
chapter says on his head in his hand was many crowns.
Speaker 1: That mean he's taking crowns from kings.
Speaker 3: Christians also butcher Christ by making him God, which is
also not in the Bible. When I'm saying God, to
be specific, I'm talking about the most high God, Trinity
is not in the Bible. Church fathers didn't even agree
on that. They argued on that. When they make it
seem like these councilors was good things, these councils was
not good things. These councils were sometimes violent, people were
put in prison. All of these things took place in
the council. So I have no respect for Church fathers
none whatsoever, because the disciples did not put anybody in prison.
Speaker 1: The disciples did not do anything.
Speaker 3: They reason worked it out, but nobody had to be
punished or cut off from it. So in this discussion
that I'm gonna have with this gentlemen, I'll show non
Israelites do not make it into the Kingdom of Heaven
Kingdom of Heaven in the same state that the Israelites
make it in. Because contrary to what people believe. Hebret
Israelite is younger than Christianity in the sense of what
we know it today in America. But as far as
us knowing we was Israelites, that goes back to the
eighteen hundreds up until now. But historically Harriet Tubman and
the family always bring it up because we have her
family in our school.
Speaker 1: They always knew that they was Israelites.
Speaker 3: So to say that black people didn't know they was
Israelites during slavery, that's also a lie.
Speaker 1: But that's not necessarily the subject.
Speaker 3: When they talk about Christ's birth, they'll tell you that
God made Mary pregnant. I don't see a prophecy in
the Bible where God is going to make a woman
pregnant to deliver the King of Israel. But I can
read in the Bible that it says through the seed
of David that the King of.
Speaker 1: Israel would come.
Speaker 3: But the Christian Church, I'm pretty sure ja if he's
orthodoxed Christians, those are the things that they believe. So
we are diametrically opposed to everything about Christianity. When they
use the word church in the New Testament, that's just
a Greek word for congregation. In the oldpo you got
thirty that's just a Greek translation of congregation in the
Old Testament. So what I'm assuming I'll be presenting in
this argument with my opponent is that orthodoxed christian as
well as every other Christianity does not teach the Word
of God.
Speaker 1: I learned right there, all.
Speaker 7: Right, just in sign both of you fellas.
Speaker 6: Okay, So let's hop right into the two minutes back
and forth. Who wants to go first, Who wants to
go ahead and present their position, and then have the
other person give a rebuttal.
Speaker 5: Well, I'll begin my rebuttal with because he he gave
his his statement God.
Speaker 7: It saw start to two minutes once you start speaking,
all right.
Speaker 5: So first of all, I would say that he claims
that what he believes is older than Christianity. I would
like eventually to get some soorceer citation on anybody having
the exact beliefs of his sect prior to the eighteen hundred.
So I want something between the time and what he
thinks the Old Testament taught, or in the time of
the Apostles.
Speaker 1: Or all the way up until the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 5: Because Jesus said his kingdom would not fail, that it
would not collapse, that the gates of Hell would not
prevail against it. And so if there's over a thousand,
almost two thousand years where there's nothing anywhere anything like
this cult's view, then he's failed to demonstrate that. He said,
the Kingdom of God comes as he says, Jesus comes
taking crowns, and it's warfare. But then he said the
ecumenical councils were quote violent. Well, you just said violence
isn't bad, and then you tried to say that if
an ecumenical council has people slapping or fighting, that's bad,
that's violent.
Speaker 1: That's a contradiction. He said.
Speaker 5: The New Testament doesn't have people being cut off, doesn't
have people dying. When Peter walks up to antonyasins the fiber,
he pronounces that they die because of their heresy, and
they died. The Kingdom of God, according to Christ, is within.
It does not come with open signs and open destruction
and power in the sense of his king, of his
disciples primarily being zelots that would fight. This is Jesus
rebuking the zealots that he had as followers, and he
said that.
Speaker 1: Jesus isn't God.
Speaker 5: Even though John One says that the word in the
beginning was the word.
Speaker 1: The words with God, the word was God.
Speaker 5: And Hebrews One links that to the creation of the
world the Son. The Son in Hebrews One is said
to be the creator of all things that have a
beginning and have existence. Well, if Jesus is created, then
he would not be classed as the thing that creates
all things. And so Hebrews One is a very easy way.
John won is a very easy way to see that
everything he said was total nonsense.
Speaker 7: All right, time, cap, I'll start whenever you start speaking.
Speaker 3: Yeah, listening is an art, and my opponent doesn't listen.
When I said the disciples did not put anybody in prison,
I'm talking about amongst themselves. I'm not talking about their enemies,
but in those counsels that they did have wars with
each other because they did not agree. Listening is an art.
When he asks if anybody followed my cult. Cult is
short for culture, and the culture of the Bible is
exactly where we get it from. When we say that
it's only for Israel, because Christ said I'm not sent
but into the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
When we say it's only for Israel, Christ sent his
disciples to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
So unless my opponent can show that the disciples gathered
all of the lost sheep of the House of Israel,
they're about the same cult that I am in the Church.
Fathers lie and say that they went to somebody else.
Christ gave direct orders. Paul said, so all Israel shall
be saved as it is written. He didn't say all
nations shall be saved as it is written. And my
opponent will not show a verse that says all nations
will be saved as it is written. He cannot show that.
In John one and one, anybody can read the Greek
texts and know that the last part of that when
it says in the beginning was the Word, and the
word was with God, and the word was God. In
the Greek it would say and God was the word,
emphasizing power, because a man can be God and not
God in the sense of the most High. Because we
can read where God called Moses a god. And then
he referenced Hebrews one, which I wouldn't have done, because
in Hebrews one it says in the past he spoke
to us by the prophets but in this time God
spoke to us by the Sun. So if God says
he spoke to us by the Son, my opponent can't
say the Son is God because God ain't talking to himself.
Speaker 6: Land right, all right, right on time, Jake, whenever you start, I'll.
Speaker 5: Start so again, like this is funny because it doesn't
seem to be aware that Antonias and Saphirah were disciples.
They were in the church, and they were pronounced to
be of a wicked disposition, and then that thus they
were considered to be worthy by divine and thus by
Petriing decree in that case, to be worthy of death.
So he has no idea what acts actually teaches or says. Second,
I asked specifically if he has any evidence of anybody
believing his position from the time of Christ up until
the eighteen hundreds. He didn't give anything. He didn't listen
to what I said either, because I said specifically that
in Matthew twenty one forty three, Jesus says to the Pharisees,
the Kingdom of God will be taken to you and
given to a nation producing the fruits thereof What is
this nation of the New Testament? Well, Peter says the
first pay er too, that you to the in the
Catholic of Epistles, to the gentile converts who had converted
in the Book of Acts, chapter ten and on, that
they would be called a royal priesthood and a holy nation.
The Church in Galatians sixty sixteen is the new Israel.
We are told, in fact, in the Psalms that excuse me,
that in the Old Testament prophets were told that the
knowledge of the Lord would cover the earth as the
sea covers the water. So that's a universal scope. And
Romans fifteen and sixteen Paul quotes the same prophets to
describe the church at Rome, which was Gentile and Jewish
converts together as the new Israel and the fulfillment of
these Old Testament prophecies that I listed in my opening statement.
So again Romans fifteen and sixteen teaches this. Then Hebrews one,
it's a play on John one in the sense of
the creation of the world. Hebrews one says that to
the Son the Father, as God says, you create, sit
out in my right hand, God, your throne forever. So
God is a generic reference and black Heber Israelites don't
understand grammar, so they don't understand that words can refer
to different things. In the scriptures, the word God picks
out deities, it picks out person, it picks out nature,
it picks out energy, and it can even pick out
humans and demons.
Speaker 7: All right, cap you go.
Speaker 6: He went five seconds over, so I'll give you a
little bit of time left over to quhead of cop
no proud.
Speaker 3: I answered this questions directly. When he asked about my cult,
I showed Paul was in my cult. He didn't respond.
Paul said, so all Israel shall be saved. And then
I challenged him to say, where does it say all
nations will be saved?
Speaker 1: And he did not. James is in my cult. James letter, James.
Speaker 3: A servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ
to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad.
Speaker 1: That's my cult.
Speaker 3: Because anybody reading the letter of James that are not
the twelve tribes, that letter is not for you. First,
Peter is one and two because he brought up Peter
elect some excuse me. First, Peter's one in one rather
says the addresses the letter who he's talking to. And
then it says because he's in it, says to the
strangers scattered through Pontus Excimunulatia, Cappadocia, Asia bethena elect according
to the fore knowledge of God the Father and the
sanctification of the Spirit, unto the obedience of the spreaking
of the blood of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: The strangers that are in those lands are the elect.
Speaker 3: The elect are the children of Israel, because God never
elected another nation.
Speaker 1: Paul says this in Romans the ninth chapter.
Speaker 3: In Romans the ninth Chapter, Paul says, if you're not
from the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, you.
Speaker 1: Are not a son of God.
Speaker 3: So when he asks me to show people during Christ's time,
up until now, I've shown it. What he's talking about
is when the church fathers come later and then pollute it.
They have polluted it up until this day because thirty
live in the Bible, which is what I say, a
direct verse that says all nations shall be saved, like
I can show a direct verse. Isaiah forty five and
seventeen says Israel shall be saved in the Lord with
a neverthlasting salvation. You shall not be ashamed or confounded world.
He can't show that by nation in the Bible.
Speaker 1: I challenge him.
Speaker 7: Land, All right, go ahead, Jay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is simple.
Speaker 5: In Genesis twelve, fifteen, seventeen, and twenty two, Abraham is
given a promise that in his seed, all the nations,
all the tribes of the earth would be blessed again.
The knowledge of the Lord would be as vast as
the sand on the seashore. Isaiah the Psalms. I'll quote
Romans again, because he doesn't understand the basics of Romans
and fifteen. Paul says that he was an apostle to
the gentile nations to confirm both for the circumcision that's
the Jews and the non circumcised, that the gentiles might
glorify God for his mercy. As is written, I will
confess to you amongst the gentiles and sing to your name.
And he says again in the Prophets, rejoice, o Gentiles
together with his people, the Jews, and again, praise the Lord.
You gentiles lawed him, all of you peoples. Paul is
writing to a church at Rome which had a significant
problem of jew and Gentile getting together and getting along
in the worship of Christ. Thus, these passages show as
I said in my opening statement, that the fulfillment of
the promises in the first century, in example, for example,
the Roman Church, are exactly the way that I interpreted them.
So the universal scope is in Genesis twelve fifteen seventeen
twenty two, the promise to Abraham, It's in Romans fifteen.
It's in Galatians three, where Paul says the fulfillment of
Genesis twelve fifteen seventeen twenty two is in Christ and
faith in Christ. The church at Galatia was a gentile
believing church. We have a succession of bishops after that
that believe all the same things that the Orthodox Church teaches.
Now I didn't say, I didn't ask you at the
time of Christ. Do you think that James and Paul
teach your I said, name somebody between the post Apostolic period,
the time of Christ, the time of them Siah, all
the way up to the eighteen hundreds that teaches your
cult view.
Speaker 7: I can't hear you time.
Speaker 1: Cat.
Speaker 7: I'm ready when you are.
Speaker 1: No problem again. I want everybody to pay attention.
Speaker 3: My challenges are not being answered as I answer his challenges.
So I further answer the challenge. The reason why we
say to eighteen hundreds. And when you start seeing visual
representation of black people identifying as Israelites. Is in Daniel's
the twelfth chapter when it says, seal up the book
until the end. And then when Christ said the kingdom
of will be t Matthew twenty four, when he says,
when you see the abomination of desolation, stand when Israel failed,
there was a silence of it, Daniel twelve and four.
But douar Dan, you shut up the words and seal
the book even to the time of the end. And
many shall run to and fro. That's the church fathers.
They shall run to and fro and knowledge. How increase
their knowledge? But my questions aren't answered. Going to Genesis
the twelfth chapter is not what we're talking about, because
we're not talking about a blessing. We're talking about the Covenant.
We're talking about salvation. And in the criteria of it,
the criteria says, I will bless them, that bless thee.
So in order for another nation to even get blessed
by us, they have to first bless us. And then
it says I will curse them, that curse thee. So
if that nation is cursing us, they can't get the blessing.
That's why when Paul mentions it in gulations, he's specific
about the children of Israel because he doesn't mention that
the other nations have to bless us. He only uses
the blessing. Example, Abraham wanted Ishmael to live. The Lord
gave Ishmael a blessing, but he said, my covenant will
I make with Isaac.
Speaker 1: He also didn't answer Romans the ninth chapter answer.
Speaker 3: He hasn't answered Romans eleven and twenty six, has not
answered Romans the ninth chapter, hasn't answered.
Speaker 1: Any of that.
Speaker 3: And at the end of Galatians it says that your
heirs according to the promise. So nobody has received the
promise except the children of Israel.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna add another question. He still does not
answer my questions.
Speaker 3: Where does it say the promise went to anybody except
the children of Israel?
Speaker 7: Book Chat the verse A land All right, Tom, go ahead, Jack.
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is a fundamentally uneducated person. So he's not
aware that when you read the Bible, you look at
who the audience is of those letters. The church at
Galatia is not a bunch of Hebrew Israelites. It's gentile
converts who are struggling with whether they need to undergo circumcision.
And to answer his specific question about the promise, this
is the Covenant promise to Abraham, which Paul says explicitly
in Christ, you are all sons of God through faith
in Christ. For if you are baptized into Christ, you
have put Him on. Thus there is neither Jew nor Greek.
Greek stands in for the nations.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter.
Speaker 5: Is not just Greeks, It's anyone who converted to be
baptized into Christ. And thus if you are baptized, you
are heirrors of the prom escalations for one. So this
is a fundamentally illiterate person. I did sites, specifically texts
and verse Romans fifteen written to a church of Gentiles
and Jews together believing in the Messiah. The Church at
Rome specifically cites those psalms that I've had in my
opening statement and those prophecies that the gentile nations together
would worship with the Messiah. In the Book of Isaiah,
God says, I will put my footstool, I will make
ed On, I will make Egypt, I will make Syria
my footstool and my house, and they will all together
worship me. There will be an altar in Egypt to
worship me. So this is an expansive open covers. Matthew
twenty one forty three says that the kingdom will be
taken from the Jews and given to a nation producing
the fruit threw up. When you read the Book of Acts,
the first ten chapters are about the Jews rejecting the
Messiah and that opening up to.
Speaker 1: The gentile nations.
Speaker 5: So again he has not given a single person prior
to eighteen hundreds after the Apostles. I know he thinks
the apostle teaches you. There's nobody that teaches this cult view.
So it's a restorationist sect. And all restorationist cults are
defeated by the fact that Jesus said that his kingdom
that he would set up his first advent, cannot be destroyed.
Speaker 6: Time all right, cap, he went eleven minutes over. This
is the captain eleven seconds over. Sorry about that eleven seconds,
My bad, cap you have I'll give you eleven seconds
over as well. But also this is going to close
out the back end the times back and forth. Right
after you respond cap we're going to get into open dialogue.
Speaker 1: Okay, no problem.
Speaker 3: I just want to point out in his whole dialogue
he has not answered one of my questions with a
book chapter. I said, show where nation can be saved
by book chapter verse.
Speaker 1: He has not shown it.
Speaker 3: I showed the show where nation is a part of
this covenant outside of Israel. He has not shown it.
But what he does do is what the Church fathers did.
They make Greek. And he said, although it says Greek,
that goes to everybody, So he can give a breakdown
of Greek to make everybody.
Speaker 1: But he can't show a verse that says it's for everybody.
Speaker 3: Greek in Gentile is not synonymous to the original Greeks,
and gentile just means nation.
Speaker 1: By definition, Israel is a gentile by nation.
Speaker 3: Genesis twenty five and three, when it says two nations
are in their wound, Israel is a gentile. Genesis forty
eight and eighteen, it calls Ephraim a gentile Jacob and
Genesis thirty five and eleven is told he would be
a multitude of Goyam, which is worth the word gentile means.
So it's prophesied that Jacob would be excreme me that
he would become a multitude of nations or a multitude
of gentiles, or multitude of So you can't use the
word gentile and make it synonymous. So if I go
to Hebrews eight and eight New Testament, it says I
will make a new covenant with the House of Judah,
with the House of Israel. Why doesn't it say with
the house of everybody. If my opponent says it's for everybody.
So if the Bible says the New Testament is only
for the House of Israel, house of Judah, then.
Speaker 1: He's a liar.
Speaker 3: According to the Bible, the Bible says that God be true,
and every man and liar. And since he spoke about Paul,
I'll take my life second here Romans ninety four. Who
are Israelites to whom pertain the adoption the glory? So
he can't say Paul is writing to anybody else because
Paul said only the Israelites pertain the adoption.
Speaker 1: Romans nine and eight says that is, the children of.
Speaker 3: The flesh are not the children of God, but the
children of the promise are counted for the seed. So
if you can't show a book chapter verse that another
nation is the children of the Promise, then they are
not the children of God. I dare you to do it?
I dare you.
Speaker 1: I'm done?
Speaker 7: All right?
Speaker 1: That go.
Speaker 6: That closed out the two minutes back and forth for buddles.
Let's hop right into the open dialogue for forty five minutes, gentlemen,
one mic at a time. Try to have some decorum.
I'll come in if I need to. But you know,
if not, you guys aren't gonna hear from me. You
guys are professionals. So let's hop right into it. I
think that since Cap you had the last response, Jay
kick it off for us.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Can you name anybody after the time of the Apostles
up to the eighteen hundreds that taught your cultureview?
Speaker 3: Harriet Tubman's whole family knew that they were Israelites Wan
eighteen hundreds. Well, slavery started in the sixteen hundreds. If
you allowed me to finish, you would have heard thank you.
So Harriet Tubman's family, when I say family, was passed
down from the time that they came over here from Africa,
from the Ashanti tribe.
Speaker 1: When they came over here, they.
Speaker 3: Had their tradition of knowing they with Israelites up into
this day. I have Captain debar Mouth at my school
that's from that family.
Speaker 1: He already knew he was an Israelite.
Speaker 3: So I know they like to believe that we didn't
know that we was Israelites, but we knew that we
was Israelites coming off of them ships.
Speaker 5: So your citation is from a family legend that Harriet
Tubman in the eighteen hundreds supposedly had.
Speaker 1: I'm asking for anybody.
Speaker 5: From the time of the Messiah, after the Apostles up
to the prior to the eighteen hundreds who taught what
your cult teachers well.
Speaker 3: Already already showed from the time of the Messiah by
using the Bible, which trumps anything that.
Speaker 1: You or I would say.
Speaker 5: Jesus finish us want to finish their answer in the
middle of answering the question, I just want to finish
the seventh.
Speaker 3: The only person that has not laughed while the other
person spoke was me. The only one that has not
chuckled what you meant, and the only person that has
not interrupted the other is me, and you cannot answers
no problem.
Speaker 1: So I'm glad.
Speaker 7: Okay, gentlemen, let me go ahead and create a little decor.
Speaker 1: Anybody when you agate, he can't.
Speaker 7: Say this is open, it's it's it's it's open, back
and forth.
Speaker 6: And he was just asking a clarifying He was giving
a clarifying rebuttal to his question.
Speaker 7: That's all he was given, and all I was saying.
Speaker 3: If he would have just been quiet, I would have explained, because.
Speaker 6: Sure enough enough, Jay, do you mind yielding so cap
can just land his plane again.
Speaker 5: I'm wanting a specific person after the Apostles up to
the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 3: I'm giving you Harriet Tubman and her family.
Speaker 1: And I even see eighteen that is not there to
this listener, Prior.
Speaker 3: To the eighteen hundreds, when they was in the west
coast of Africa in the Ashanti tribe, they knew that
they were Israelite. So when they came off the slave ship,
what the of that I just told is the oral tradition?
Speaker 1: We have them in our family.
Speaker 3: And if I'm not mistaken, all throughout the Bible, before
we've got the Laws of Moses, you know what they
had the oral tradition?
Speaker 1: Interesting, that's not Is.
Speaker 3: That not true? Did they not have oral tradition before
Moses wrote the law. The oral tradition is that I'm
asking a question, Yes or no?
Speaker 1: Did they have tradition put the Bible together?
Speaker 3: Did they have oral tradition before Moses wrote the law down?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: Or so we're out in the gate and what happens
A lot of times Black people can't have oral tradition
that matters.
Speaker 5: But we do are actual historical academic sources that point
to the oral tradition back.
Speaker 1: You can go into the colleges. You can have no
academic You can go into the colleges in Louisiana you
started an academical scholar. You can go to the well.
Speaker 7: I don't need they tell us for the audience purpose.
Can you just let us? Can you allow one another
to land their plane?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 6: Uh, Jay just finished the last statement, and then and
then Cap respond.
Speaker 1: To that and then yeah we've not heard any if.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, Cap.
Speaker 3: But let them let him just question. I wanted to
ask you a question before he spoke. I wasn't trying
to interrupt him. Sure, I'm asking this because this is
not him, just really me. So after he asked the question,
I want to know. I want to make sure I'm
not rude. When I switched the question and ask him
a question like how long do we stay?
Speaker 6: That's fine, a fair question, cap. Basically, if you guys
can answer one another questions. I'm keeping track of this
the best that I can. He's asking questions, a specific question,
so he's just looking for an answer.
Speaker 1: This is no.
Speaker 3: I get that part. He's not satisfied with my answer.
I get that part.
Speaker 1: What I'm just simply asking is and this goes for
both of us, how long how long.
Speaker 3: Do we stay on either one of our questions before
he gets to then ask me an ad vice versa?
Speaker 6: So once again, it's just it's just I'll stop the
clock right here because we're having just the meta conversation
about the debate.
Speaker 7: So once again, it's just open dialogue. Cap.
Speaker 6: I'm as you guys go. So let's just be good faith.
If he asked you a question, yep, I got your cap.
So let's be good faith. If he asked you a question,
reply back, answer his question. If you then want to
ask him a question, totally fine. But we have to
allow one another room to reply back to questions and
to give rebuttals and everything else.
Speaker 7: So let's go back to Jay.
Speaker 6: Jay, go ahead and restate your position and then cap
you get to respond, right.
Speaker 5: So referring to an oral tradition allegedly that Harriet Tubman said,
which again I'd like some source, some academic, scholarly citation
as to the pedigree of this is not an answer
to somebody between the timeframe of the post of Apostolic
period to the eighteen hundreds. So he can't do that
because this cult didn't exist. It's a new, made up
restorationist cult.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's fine to say that is made up,
and I don't have to prove it over then, don't
I don't.
Speaker 1: Have to prove that.
Speaker 3: What the debate title is about Orthodox Christianity, not about
what Black Israelites said. They so I just want to
be able to finish again again they were Orthodox in
the so, but that's not is not thank you. I'm
glad somebody being unbiased. So that's not the debate title.
The debate title is Christian Orthodox Christianity. True, that's the
actual debate title. So when you actually look up, if
you want to go scholar, anybody can look up Frank Cherry,
William Saunders. You can look these people up and they
all carry that tradition. So now just name two other people,
so that's three different people. Harriet Tubman, Frank Cherry, William
Sanders all all had the traditional and the key thing
about him saying eighteen hundreds because that's when they decided
to put a time stamp on it. What I'm talking
about is oral tradition coming off the slaves. Even to
this day, you'll see people from the Europa tribe, the
Igbo tribe, the Ashanti tribe that will tell you that
the asks me that the people take.
Speaker 1: It on them. Slave ships were Israelites.
Speaker 3: I can't help it if academia doesn't respect it.
Speaker 1: So that's why I yield.
Speaker 3: So there's no history, and that's why I model you.
That's why I yield to the oral tradition.
Speaker 1: Uh huh.
Speaker 3: Now, I will ask you a question. Do you have
a book chapter verse? If I read Romans the ninth
chapter and Romans the ninth chapter says.
Speaker 1: This is Romans ninety four.
Speaker 3: Who are Israelites to whom pertaining the adoption and glory
to covenants, the giving of the law, the services of God,
and the promises. Paul said that the Israelites pertain and
own the promises and the adoption. Can you show a
book chapter verse where another nation by name also owns
the adoption and the promises.
Speaker 5: Yeah, if you read chapter eleven, he says that the
Gentiles are drafted into that very promise.
Speaker 1: That you just meanted. That's not answering my question. It is.
Speaker 5: It's a specific direct answer to your stupid answer.
Speaker 3: The answer to my question is and again that's you
see my opponent one person here, because at the ends
of Romans eleven and twenty six it said so all
Israel shall be saved.
Speaker 1: That was not my question.
Speaker 3: My question is of a nation by name that gets
adopted and have the promises. Because if Paul says in
Romans ninety four, who are Israelites to pertain?
Speaker 1: Pertain means own, so.
Speaker 3: They own adoption, glory covenant, you're gonna answer.
Speaker 7: So yeah, okay, yeah, Cap, let him answer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's give a Romans gotta top yapping and let
me answer your dumb aster. Just eleven, he says, you
get up to he won't shut up, So.
Speaker 3: I know you're not talking about Somebody said, no, I
know you're not talking.
Speaker 6: All right, Cat, I think it's fair now, Cap, I
think it's fairy.
Speaker 5: Both had both had it. They can I expect you
to stop you from answer interrogations?
Speaker 1: That's right, but you crying about it?
Speaker 6: Cat, Come on you, you ask him a question, Cat,
let him answer.
Speaker 7: Go ahead.
Speaker 5: Romans to eleven, Paul says, I do not desire that
you would be ignorant of this mystery, lest you'd be
wise in your own dependence. Blindness has happened to Israel
until the fullness of the gentiles comes in?
Speaker 1: What verse you reading? Romans eleven five? The fullness of
the gentiles comes in? You said, Romans eleven and twenty five?
You're reading right?
Speaker 3: So now the word gentile, because when everybody know he
did not answer my question, I told him to show
me that gentile.
Speaker 1: Do we agree? Gentiles means nation, yes or no. It's
a general term.
Speaker 5: They can refer to a specific proper nation, or it
can refer to all nations. I know that grammars for
you as well. It can be proper or it can
be general. Can it refer to Israelites as well?
Speaker 1: The word nation could refer to any nation Israel? Now
what I actually thank you? Thank you.
Speaker 3: So when we see the word gentile, we can't make
that meme a non Israelite or an Israelite contrastic look,
would you also agree? Also, would you also agree that
context would let us know what gentile mean?
Speaker 5: Because you didn't know the context of nineteen eleven grafted
into the Israel when we go in Romans grafted into
the Jewish. True, I'm gonna jump up and.
Speaker 1: I can't. I'm you. We do time?
Speaker 7: This person's too Okay, let's do time.
Speaker 6: Uh so we spoke backstage. Is someone request time? I
told him that I would adhere to it. So let's
do it, Tim, Jay, what you want to do? One
minute or two minute? Responses? We should one minute is
fine with you?
Speaker 1: Jay? About asking question? How about the time that let's
do that. Let's go back and like if he asked
a question.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and also Captain Cesariac the other thing too, And
I think, yeah, I can hear you. I think that
you know about this too. When someone is trying to
run a line of argument, maybe they're asking a question
looking for your answer, asking another question looking for your answer.
That's totally fine. That's like the interrogation part. That's what
Jay was speaking about. So you have to allow some
room for that to happen as well. And I'll allow
room for you to do the same thing for him
to get what I'm saying.
Speaker 7: So let's hop into the one minute response.
Speaker 3: I just want to get into clarity first. All right, Cat,
what is the length of time for the asking the questions?
Speaker 6: Okay, we're just doing one minute rebuttals, Cap, So he's
gonna go ahead and ask his question? Is gonna be
he can ask his question. I'll time it. Basically, you
have one minute to speak. If you stop before one minute,
then I'll just go ahead and let the person answer
the question.
Speaker 1: Gotcha.
Speaker 3: And then if there's a line of questions or follow
a question, he's entitled to do that with me.
Speaker 6: Yes, how about this, because I think that both of
you do want to interrogate one another after we get
through a form of the one minute responses, see if
we can create some decorm and get some understanding, then
let's allow one another to interrogate the person.
Speaker 7: So, uh, Jay the floor, George, you got a minute, Cooley.
Speaker 3: In fairness, it was my question that he cried about,
not his question. To know, I want to answer that
I'm talking to COOLi I'm not even talking to you.
Speaker 6: Okay, J, I mean I mean cap Cap.
Speaker 7: Listen though, I'm yielding the floor to Jay.
Speaker 6: Jay requested the one minute time or so I'm just
yielding it to him.
Speaker 7: Jay.
Speaker 6: My question though, cur hey, cap, Cap, Cap Cap, Let's
just do one minute?
Speaker 7: Cap.
Speaker 1: Come on, Cat, you.
Speaker 7: Keep on saying you doing. We agreed to one minute.
Speaker 1: Cap. I don't have a problem with the one minute,
but you're making it like he gets to ask me
a question. Answer.
Speaker 6: He said, he wants to answer your question. That's what
he wanted to do.
Speaker 1: So I'm just just quickly repeat the question and then
he answered it.
Speaker 7: I'll be ten, It'll sure, go ahead, Cap.
Speaker 1: Question, Yeah, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: So now and Romans nine and four, it says Israel
pertains the adoption to Covenant and the promises. Can you
show another nation by name that has the adoption the
Covenant and the promises?
Speaker 1: That's the question?
Speaker 7: All right, Jay, you got one minute?
Speaker 5: Go ahead, right, So I'm gonna go to Roman to eleven.
I'm gonna explain the context to him and read the
passes where Paul specifically answers this question. I speak to
you gentiles. He's speaking to the church at Rome. Now,
this idiot thinks that the word gentiles there means Israel
because the word nation or gentile can also refer to
Israel because it just means nation. Paul is saying that
he is an apostle to the Gentiles to help them
get along with the Jews in the Church of Rome
who are now believing in the Messiah. I speak to
you gentiles, since I am an apostle to the Gentiles.
Speaker 1: Imagine how stupid.
Speaker 5: This will be for Paul to say that I'm an
apostle to the Jews, and I speak to you Jews
or just gentiles. So he doesn't understand that grammar is
determined by the context. Here it's contrasted to the Jews,
who are the native olive branch and the native tree
upon which the Gentiles are unnative and being grafted into.
So his answer, the answer to rum It's nine about
chapter four, is that the adoption and the Covenant and
the promises are to all, whether slave, free, male, female,
Jew or Green.
Speaker 6: Said, doesn't give him a Let's let him land his plane.
We'll give him a little time over.
Speaker 7: Go ahead, Jaye, that's okay, go ahead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Only because you said time is why I spoke.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry if you would like when you gave him
the extra time before I didn't speak.
Speaker 1: I'm the only one having to core men anyway.
Speaker 3: So when he did not answer the question, I asked
him by name to show where other nations by name
get the Covenant, the promises, or the adoption.
Speaker 1: He did not show it.
Speaker 3: What he did go was the Romans eleven and bring
up I am the apostle to the Gentiles, where he
stopped reading when it says, as far, I speak to
you gentiles, as much as I'm apostle of the Gentiles, I.
Speaker 1: Magnified my office.
Speaker 3: If by any means I may provoke to emulation, then
which are my flesh? His flesh is Israelites, and the
Israelites in Rome were called Greek. They were Hellenized. Even
when you look up the word Greek, it'll be a Hellenist,
a Jew who made Greek their tongue. That's why you
see Greek, That's why you see gentile. So I gotta
follow up question. In Romans nine and twenty four it
says even only a called not of the Jews only,
but also of the Gentiles.
Speaker 1: As he also said in oc.
Speaker 5: I will call them my people, which were not my people,
and her beloved, which was not my beloved.
Speaker 7: Who is that written to time?
Speaker 1: Who is that written to do? The church at Rome?
Jew and gentile? So do our church at Rome, both
you and gentile? The gentiles so the gentile?
Speaker 3: So the gentiles in rooms nine and twenty four, or
would be non Israelites to you?
Speaker 1: Again, do you not understand grammar the word? Just asking
the question?
Speaker 5: The word gentile can refer to a proper noun or
a general.
Speaker 1: Now in that verse, is those gentiles? Do you understand
the difference between proper and they're just trying to get it?
Can I get a yes or no? Isn't that averse grammar?
In that verse? Are gentiles non Israelites to you? Yes?
And no? Yes, the word gentile verse twenty five, I
understand that.
Speaker 3: So in verse twenty five when it says I will
call them my people, excuse me as it also saying
on c I will call them my people, which were
not my people, and a beloved which was not my beloved.
It is your position that the non Israelites, who at
one time would not be called God's people, would now
be called God's people.
Speaker 5: That's your positions. The verse does correct.
Speaker 6: Okay, got it real quick, gentlemen, real quick caps since
you are running your line of argument, perfect, Let's go
ahead and you can do your interrogation first.
Speaker 7: We'll do two ten minutes of your interrogation.
Speaker 1: Minutes because I only got okay, I only got like.
Speaker 6: Two more questions find after this, though, Jay is going
to run his interrogation definitely, okay, got it.
Speaker 7: Go ahead.
Speaker 1: In Roma's nine and twenty five, who is oc because
it says n oc is who I'm sorry, it's Hoseah.
Speaker 3: Okay, soa, And who is Joseiah talking about when he
makes that statement, I will call them my people, which
not my people.
Speaker 5: I actually referenced this in my opening statement that it's
a prophecy of the gentile church coming into the worship
the King, the worship the God.
Speaker 3: This is the problem I had with Orthodox Christianity. They
lie on the Bible because Joseiah did not say this
is a prophecy for non Israelites.
Speaker 1: What Joseah actually said.
Speaker 3: Sin and Jseah won in ten says, well, first of all,
when you read Hoseah the first chapter versus says then
said God call his name Lord mind for year, not
my people, and I will not be your God. God
is cutting off the children of Israel. He ain't got
to cut.
Speaker 1: Off non Israelites. Don't say correct.
Speaker 3: Don't say correct now, because if that means from the
time that he's writing this digit lights are not his people.
That's why Paul is in Rome quoting, you're the most
one of the most agrant white men I've ever out
of the core.
Speaker 1: All you do is though ad hounds. But it's not
gonna work tonight.
Speaker 3: So no other children of Israel shall be of the
sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered.
Clearly talking about Israel, and this shall come the past
where we're set unto them, the Israelites, ye are not
my people.
Speaker 1: To them, he as the living of God.
Speaker 3: The children of Judah and the children of Israel be
gathered together.
Speaker 1: So you said that, You just said that.
Speaker 3: In Romans, it's talking about non Israelites. But Paul is
quoting Hoseiah. I said, the children of Israel are going
to be called God's people once again.
Speaker 1: You don't know that both of those things. I know
both of those things are true at once.
Speaker 5: Hoseiah, in his immediate context, is rebuking the idolatrous Israelites
of his day, and he's saying you people are going
to be rejected. God is rejecting you because anyone who
is unfaithful, even in the Old Testament, is not a
true Israelite. It was always the case that the only
way to be a true Israelite is to have faith
in God and to faith in the coming Messiah. Jesus says,
Abraham has faith in him, Moses has faith in him.
Speaker 1: That's John five to John nine.
Speaker 5: So the Old Testament saints and prophets looked ahead to
faith in the Messiah, and that's how they were saved.
But to answer his stupid question, both of those things
can be true at once. Just because Hoseiah is saying
to the Israelites of his day, you are not my people,
it doesn't mean that it's not a prophecy of the
coming era when the Messiah would bring in all the
gentile nations. I'll give you an example of specific nations
mentioned in Psalm sixty. It says, equating between seven and eight,
Gilead is mine, Manassa is mine, Ephraim is mine, Judah's
my lawgiver, Moab is my wash pot, eat them is
my shoe. Pelictia will triumph because of me. Those are
the historic enemies of God. And the New Testament is
citing these passages like Psalm H sixty and the others
to fulfill to point out that the fulfillment of these
predictions is the gentile nations coming in.
Speaker 1: So you want specific nations listed, There you go.
Speaker 5: The classic enemies of God are listed as equal to
it amongst his people.
Speaker 6: All right, all right, fellas, Jay h, do you want
to interrogate cat? Sure, all right, let's hop right into it.
I know you guys had some core disagreements on certain things.
Speaker 1: Uh, Jesus, God virgin.
Speaker 6: The virgin birth, that Jesus is God, the most high God.
Speaker 7: So Jay do things. Cat, cat cat cat none none
of the cat.
Speaker 1: Cap.
Speaker 7: I know, Cap, real quick, Cap. You got to learn
how to yield.
Speaker 6: We're trying to help people, Jay, go ahead, floor, George.
Speaker 5: So you referred a lot of times to the scriptures
and to the New Testament, to these passages. But in
the study of the text, the history of the texts,
and canonical studies, in a lot of cases, we don't
know who wrote these texts. For example, we don't know
that Matthew the Apostle is the author of the Gospel
of Matthew.
Speaker 1: And so one of the.
Speaker 5: Things that is central to knowing the authenticity of these
texts is in fact their pedigree and their use amongst
the Church fathers. Now, you said a bunch of things
early on that the Church fathers all disagree. They don't
all believe in the deity of Christ, they disagree on circumcision.
Speaker 1: There are no Church fathers that.
Speaker 5: Disagree on the deity of Christ or the topic of circumcision,
because it was solved in the Book of Acts in
chapter fifteen at the Jerusalem Council. So number one, I
want to know, can you cite me some of the
Church fathers who disagree this assertion.
Speaker 1: That you made?
Speaker 5: And then how do you know that the New Testament
canon that you have is the right Canada scripture?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm trying to find the disagreements that they had
was on what I actually said was the divinity of.
Speaker 1: Christ you said, and circumcision. You said both.
Speaker 3: I did say circumcision too, But you asked about the
differences of Jesus being God.
Speaker 1: That's what that was your actual question. You did mention both. Okay,
So whichever order I choose to go, I can go
Jesus Christ fathers to disagree.
Speaker 3: So when I say they disagreed, they disagreed on the divinity.
Speaker 1: Some believe Christ was created, some believe disagreements. Where's the source?
If listening is an art, all you got to do
is just let me respond. You don't have a yeah,
you just said so.
Speaker 3: For example, in the fourth century Nature of Christ areas
and nations of Alexander?
Speaker 1: Is he created?
Speaker 3: The debate was is he created Arius or eternal God
as Nacius. Okay, but you said, you said, you just
these are all? These are all church fathers, Iraniansaneus, he's
not a heretic. So Iranius was called a heretic because
you disagreed. However, you say his name was called a
heretic because he disagreed with the other people, which is
what the counters for, which is what I said from
the beginning. Valentine, Iraneus and Valentines also how you say
his name, they disagreed, they did not agree.
Speaker 6: When you speak, real quick, j when you speak, come
closer to the mic, because captain mic is overpowering yours
a little bit when you guys are speaking over one another.
Speaker 7: Okay, so go ahead.
Speaker 5: Right, So what he's citing is the debates that were
had amongst church fathers and heretics.
Speaker 1: Church fathers, you said church fathers, and that's not church fathers.
Speaker 3: They became heretics because they disagreed with the other side.
Speaker 1: If they agreed with the side heretics, If that's.
Speaker 5: The standard, then the disagreements aunt amongst black heepers are
like colts. Means that your sector is disqualified. If that's
your standard, you idiot.
Speaker 3: If you can stop, he COOLi is this where we
could just disrespect and call each other names?
Speaker 1: Because I haven't so Cat you did?
Speaker 6: You did call him a white something? You know you
guys have been you did Cat? Yeah, both, you both
been going back and forth.
Speaker 3: I said he's the most ignorant white man because he
kept interrupting me and calling me an idiot.
Speaker 1: I have not This was the.
Speaker 7: First time he said idiot, Cat. This is the first
this is the first time I've heard it.
Speaker 3: When you go back to watch this, you're gonna say
I wouldn't say it if it was the first.
Speaker 1: Time, but he keeps saying. And I'm trying to try
to avoid.
Speaker 6: All right, cap cap, I got you cat, Cat, I
got you Cat.
Speaker 1: So I'm naming church fathers.
Speaker 3: You're calling them heretics, which I'm not even mad at
you calling them heretics. You're supposed to call them a heretic.
You don't even understand that it was.
Speaker 1: But before they were called the heretic, they were in agreement.
So then you said that.
Speaker 3: When you said again that applied, you said, how do
you demonstrate that, well, you'll call them heritic.
Speaker 1: I didn't call them a heretic.
Speaker 5: I said they were church You just said before that
they were in disagreement.
Speaker 1: How do you demonstrate.
Speaker 5: How do you demonstrate that Valentinus was in agreement with
their an as that's your claim.
Speaker 1: I never said that they were in agreement or disagreement.
Speaker 3: I said they were until let me say better. So
you're gonna understand, before they had the counsels, they were
all church father the council and then whoever wor you're
talking about the.
Speaker 1: Same thing.
Speaker 6: Do you made the argument to say, okay, okay, Captain
cap Cat please answer. I know, but Cat is his interrogation.
If he's gonna real quick.
Speaker 1: Problem interrupted, I'm not answering.
Speaker 6: No, Cap Cap, Listen, he's literally I can remember the
questions he's literally asking you certain questions, and you're I
need you to answer those questions. That's why he keeps
restating the question.
Speaker 5: He said, what you said, am us until the council?
What council was Asn. It's nonsense, It doesn't there is
no you're just saying bullshit.
Speaker 1: No problem.
Speaker 3: So, as I've stated, I've answered every question council.
Speaker 7: He answered that question, Jay, what council was? As N?
Can you answer his specific questions?
Speaker 1: You mean answer that question? Cat?
Speaker 7: You know I I mean you answer that question, cap.
Can you do that?
Speaker 1: So in the second century, excuse me, in the second
century Nsticism versus orthodized Christianity the key figures of one side.
Speaker 5: Wikipedia, dude, you made an assertion.
Speaker 1: This is not Wikipedia. Okay, Google, whatever your reasons.
Speaker 5: Not at all, you'll say, You'll say, I brought up
the second century. I bought up the two sides Nacissism
versus Orthodo.
Speaker 1: I brought up the side nism.
Speaker 6: Cap once again, let's just get some quick decorum.
Speaker 7: Cap.
Speaker 1: Listen, why are you saying for me to get the kor.
Speaker 7: Cap is an interrogation.
Speaker 6: He's asking you specific questions that he needs specific.
Speaker 5: Answers to agree with my interroga answering it.
Speaker 6: Cap, he allowed you to interrogate him. Can you allow
the same thing and good faith and answer the specific question.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that's what you're sayings orthodox Christianity in
the second century. Question, this is you're a starting directed.
Whether he said this an assertion or not, I'm answering
his question coolly.
Speaker 1: I'm not not what.
Speaker 7: Cap.
Speaker 6: Listen, listen, all right, Jane, go ahead and restate your
question for the fifth time.
Speaker 7: I think. Go ahead.
Speaker 5: He said they were in agreement prior to the disagreements,
which he can't demonstrate that he doesn't know that. And
then he said that there was a council and then
Aaronaus and Valentinis had a disagreement. There is no council
that Iaroneus has evolve in with with Valentinas. You said that,
Now name the council. You're just you're just spouting out bullshit.
Speaker 1: You're ready on the internet. So when you look up
Valentine and what council.
Speaker 3: When you look up Valentine and Iranius, it's Valentinas. When
you look up Valentinus and Ireneus, you'll see Valentinis was
miss second century Egyptian Christians Council. You're just reading with
Christian philosopher. I'm not reading Wikipedia. I'm just reading the information.
So again, Ireneans and Valentining. Valentinis was the leader of
the Gnostics, and they were.
Speaker 1: Against and they were against.
Speaker 3: And they were against wizard. If you're having a battle,
that is what you don't have one.
Speaker 5: You're just you're just saying bullshit on the internet.
Speaker 3: You said, I'm not saying on the internet. Anybody can
look this up online.
Speaker 1: The council. You got it on. You got it online
right now.
Speaker 3: The title of it says Irene. Even Iranians even wrote
a book. What councils wrote against Hares Council shows the
competing Christianities.
Speaker 1: Early don't let's say, let's Sayedia.
Speaker 3: This is I don't know what you're saying Wikipedia. I
would never use Wikipedia. I don't know why you you're
using Google, you idiot. I'm not using Google again. Who
you're not saying nothing? If ignorant and name called like
he just you didn't say nothing?
Speaker 7: Cool cap cap, I got you cap cap moderator.
Speaker 1: He doesn't have an.
Speaker 6: Yeah cap, It's very simple. Idiot is fine? You call
him a white something like. Those things are fine. You're
not making really any like true personal attacks. You're not
talking about one another's family. That is fine. It's totally okay.
Cap you can do the same. You guys both been
doing it. But just answer his question.
Speaker 1: I did answer it. He just didn't want what council I.
Speaker 3: Said, Nasticism versus orthodized Christianity.
Speaker 5: You said that council condemned that what they.
Speaker 1: Say a council, it's not what I said.
Speaker 3: I said they were condemn I said they were condemned
that ever, I'm not when you go back and listen,
I would say.
Speaker 1: They would be I didn't even use the word. I
didn't use the word condemned.
Speaker 5: Get clear to irritate when you you said, when your
dumb ass heretice count, I said they became heritage because
they disagreed in their council named.
Speaker 1: In Valentine. I named other people.
Speaker 3: That's why you would have the counselor of not seeing
when they would debate. Is Jesus, it doesn't all considered
church fathers.
Speaker 1: A council.
Speaker 3: All of these people are considered church fathers, and none
of them have already on the Bible.
Speaker 1: I can't hurt. It want to like when it says
listening isn't art.
Speaker 6: All right, fellas, listen, listen. Let's have some decorum for
the audience. The audience, yeah, yeah, uh, the audience needs
to hear exactly what beings said. I kind of let
it rock because you know, I like the blood sport.
But let's have some deform real quick.
Speaker 1: Actually interrupts when somebody talked him.
Speaker 5: It's called the interrogation, and you got Boston interrogated you.
Speaker 1: I gave you the respect which I wanted to want
to respond. I didn't you in your answer.
Speaker 5: I disagree with every answer that you gave, but I
did not interrupt in your answer.
Speaker 1: I did not.
Speaker 3: When you go back and watch it, when I interrogated
you about romancountsl x y Z, I did not.
Speaker 1: I answered the question you answer. I answered, you don't
have one. I answered you didn't tell you. I answered
the question. You use a chat listen.
Speaker 5: If listening is listening with nothing, you wouldn't know you're
I'm not even using chat gpt EGO have a whole
power point on the subject.
Speaker 1: I have a whole power point on the subject. Set
a counsel with their answer problem.
Speaker 3: So I'll go with the different counselors that they had
counsels three twenty five, three eighty one.
Speaker 1: Always me.
Speaker 5: That's one hundred and fifty years after an answer.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: I'm giving you a timeline of them having concent and
you know that they didn't agree on the deity of Christ.
Speaker 1: Some believe you're.
Speaker 5: Believe he was created. Balance, I believe he wasn't created.
That requires a counsel of us. And when the council
went he's a deity, then the people that believe he's created.
Speaker 6: Let's go back to time. Yeah, let's go back to
time for decorn, for the audience. We got a lot
of people watching, thousands, thousands of people.
Speaker 5: You got caught in a lot of the time is
for the person, and the time is for me.
Speaker 1: Not when he brought up time before, that was for
him to respond. He's melting down.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Cat, So look, Cat, we agreed to cap. We
agreed prior to the debate. Whoever requests time, I'm gonna
adhere to it. He requested time, So uh, y'all want
to do one or two minutes back and forth? One minute,
Let's do one minute. So we done one minute, Cat
and guess what for this one minute I'm going to
You're gonna go first. So you got the one minute.
The floor is yours once you start speaking.
Speaker 1: Go ahead one minute to do what exactly.
Speaker 6: Whatever you wanted to respond to and to his questions. Okay,
all right, So then the woman it goes to Jay.
Then do you want to take it or do you
want Jay to take it? I was trying to give
it to you.
Speaker 7: Be fair. No, he can have it, okay, Jane, The
woman is yours.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So again he specifically said, and people can wind back
a few minutes and you can hear that. He said
that Iranaus and Valentinis came into disagreement and there was
a condemnation at a council, and that's what led to
the disagreement and the consideration of another person as a heretic.
Iranaus was not involved in a council with Valentinus. He
referred to Nicia, which is in one hundred and fifty
years after the time of Irenaeus, where Arius is disagreeing
with Athanasius. In all academic Christian literature, even amongst people
who disagree with Christianity, there's not an equivalence between patristic
writers and church fathers. Those are different categories. So for example,
Origin Pertolian, they were outside of the church and they
ended up being patristic writers. Their writings are worthwhile, they
have a lot of historical attestation, but they're not church fathers.
And so he's satistically said the church.
Speaker 1: Fathers all disagreed. But you saw when we actually go
into this, he has no idea. What he's talking about
is just reading from the internet, all right, George.
Speaker 3: Swans to Tillian for example one fifty five. Maybe that's
the closer timeline to him against praxies. There was a
time when the sun was not Why is that controversy
because people believe that Christ always was.
Speaker 1: That's why it says against praxies.
Speaker 3: Then you have a Fanatius, which comes to ninety six
that says the son is eternal. When it comes to
the circumcision, justin Martyr, we too should observe the fleshy
circumcision if we did not know. That's one hundred a
d says Torah had a temporary purpose. Irnius one thirty
two O two. Abraham was justified without circumcision. Emphasizes faith
over the law.
Speaker 5: So there was a discrepancy of you that didn't have
to do circumcision, or you could do circumcisions.
Speaker 3: There was a question of Christ having a creation point.
Christ's not having a creation point. So it doesn't matter
what time frame that I started. You don't have to say, yeah,
shut your mouth. You don't have to talk during my time.
I didn't talk during your time. There's only one professional here.
Speaker 1: So now it doesn't matter what year. This whole debate.
Speaker 3: When he went over the time, you gave him extra seconds.
Even even when I folk you said, hey, cap, let's
let him.
Speaker 1: End this plane.
Speaker 7: Let you do it as well.
Speaker 1: To say something to let you let me do it.
So now you the bitch. Now we're calling each other bitches.
Speaker 5: You the bitch, I said, you're whining and bitching.
Speaker 1: You're wine.
Speaker 3: You're a bitch though, like you're the one that's unprofessional
closing as I was closing out ready. It doesn't matter
what year I use. The point is who they call
the church fathers did not agree on everything. That's a fact.
And I've gained sources that's closer to his timeline.
Speaker 5: Yeah, let's go into the first source.
Speaker 1: How long does he get the hot? See when is
it my turn for the hot stop a bit about
my time.
Speaker 7: Remember he did you did you?
Speaker 6: We started with you doing the interrogation, but you said
you didn't need long and you stopped your interrogation very much.
Speaker 3: That was how long I didn't I'm just asking how
long you had to stop. Asking how long does not
mean I wanted to stop.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to.
Speaker 7: Get okay, okay, well he got one minute right now?
Speaker 5: Are you able to pull up anything? Because he referenced
the text, that's important you asking me that, No, Cooley,
are you able to.
Speaker 1: Pull up anything?
Speaker 7: Or is that I can pull up some stuff for sure?
Speaker 5: Okay, So this link that I put in the private
chat there he mentioned against Praxius. All right, okay, so
you'll look at chapter two. You pull up that page
and you scroll down to chapter two. He gave the
impression that Tertullian was teaching the Aryan view, which is
a misquotation, because Sertolian teaches what is that in chapter two?
Speaker 1: Can you see that? What's the title of chapter two?
Speaker 7: Rather, now go ahead and pull it up.
Speaker 5: See I've actually read these books. He read these books.
Chapter two says in against Praxius, scroll down a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's just read this.
Speaker 5: Title, chapter two, the Catholic doctrine of the Trinity and Unity,
sometimes called the Divine economy or the dispensation of the
personal relations of the Godhead. So notice this is one
fifty a D which he tried to misquote as a
reference to Arianism. He doesn't even know that this book
is a reputation of the Modalist position, which is his
Unitarian position. And he calls Praxius, the Modalist who believes
that there's only one person in the Godhead, a heretic.
The very book that this idiot is siding from is
a defense of the Trinity, the Catholic Doctor of the
Trinity in one fifty a D, which is what he cited. Uh,
so this actually refutes everything that he was argued that
he doesn't even know the sources.
Speaker 6: All right, Jane, that's your time and cap. If you
need me to pull up anything, I will.
Speaker 3: There's there's a saying I rarely shout this man out,
but Godfield said, you die on your source. I didn't
bring this up to say whether they believed in trinity or.
Speaker 1: Not, but I brought it up for that again.
Speaker 3: The dumb the dumb ass is talking while I'm talking,
and again moderated, you are.
Speaker 1: Supposed to shut your fuck cap because you ain't saying nothing.
Speaker 5: The two times he interrupted, I have not interrupted him,
so I can tell him to shut the fuck up.
Speaker 7: That's what I got you, cap. I'm just running the
time I paused it. But go ahead continue.
Speaker 3: On your source. This wasn't about the trinity. This is
about the divinity of Christ. So when it says there
was a time when the sun was not and then
he mentioned arianism, which lets you know that there was
a set of people that did not believe that.
Speaker 1: Jesus was divine.
Speaker 3: They believed that he was the physical son of God
that became divine when he ascended. So now that's another
agree of disagreement, which is my point. But you would
not see the apostles disagreeing like that, but you will
see them disagreeing like that. So you had some of
the church father that said Christ had a creation point yes,
something that said he did not.
Speaker 1: That's what I said.
Speaker 3: I didn't say whether they believed he was God, whether
they believed in the trinity. My argument was only that
they disagreed on if Christ was created or not.
Speaker 1: So your source does not help you.
Speaker 3: It hurts you because it shows how stupid you are
because I was not talking about trinity.
Speaker 1: We can talk about it if you want.
Speaker 5: I'm done, all right, Yeah, but again, this is a
fundamentally stupid person. I specifically said that it was ironic
that you brought this up because it's a document written
against both errors of the Paul of Samasada view of
that Christ is.
Speaker 1: A mere creature.
Speaker 5: This is before Arianism, it's what would become Arianism, and
he's mainly focused on Praxius and his Sibelianism.
Speaker 1: So it shows that the trinity.
Speaker 5: Doctrine was bought right here in chapter two, clear as day.
He doesn't teach that Son is a mere creature. If
he teaches the trinity, you idiot, that's the whole point
of chapter two. So you're a blasphemer and a dumb
person who can't understand grammar and doesn't even know the
writings that he's sourcing. So when you read this writing,
this is an early early reference to the multiplicity in
the Godhead and the unity of the Godhead. That's a
reputation of both the Aryan or what would become the
arian position and the Sibelian position.
Speaker 1: That's what I said.
Speaker 5: You haven't actually read this, because Tartulian consistently defends the
deity of the person of Christ.
Speaker 1: When the church fathers not, heretics.
Speaker 6: Not the time time you can finish the last sentence,
I'll do the same thing for Ketty.
Speaker 5: They speak of Christ human nature being created. That's his
human nature, not his divine person of it to both,
and like Romans one says, all right.
Speaker 1: So the more we talk, I want everybody to pay attention.
Speaker 3: Remember my argument was that the church Father didn't agree.
And the more we talk, the more he because he
wanted to make it seem like he reads everything. The
more he tells, y'all, more people that didn't agree, more
people that didn't get along, more people that disagreed on
the divinity of Christ that come, which was my point.
But in the Bible, Paul says he's the son of
the most High. Peter says he's the son of the
most High. The demons say he's the son of the
most High. Christ says he has a god in the Bible.
So I would never believe the church fathers. Christ said,
I go to my God and your God. I go
to my father and your father so how can Christ
be God if he got a God.
Speaker 1: That he's going to?
Speaker 3: Christ in John seventeen and three says that they might
know the one True God, the Father, and the Son
on whom he sent. So the superiority is the Bible.
The church fathers is ass They are trash, They are
nothing because they Blaspheme every time. They make Jesus the
most I got you good?
Speaker 7: Want to finish your sentence? Gradman?
Speaker 1: Oh no, that was good, right there, You're good?
Speaker 7: Okay, Jay?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think he thinks that yelling and acting like a
preacher is the same thing as a debate, and so
he doesn't understand internal critiques. He doesn't understand when I'm
showing his position to be inconsistent from his own dum argumentation.
So again, as I said, when I asked him earlier,
which he blew past, he never even attempted a response.
I specifically said to him, we don't know the pedigree
of who Matthew was to the Gospel of Matthew.
Speaker 1: And I can.
Speaker 5: Undercut this whole thing to point out that, guess what,
the church Father is the one that put the Bible together.
The canon of scripture that you have comes from the
oral tradition that he referred to of the Church Fathers,
together with the liturgical practice of the electionary in the
early Apostolic sees. There's no way to actually know that
Paul wrote Paul's Epistles to Paul the Apostle, or that
Matthew the Disciple wrote the Gospel Matthew apart from the
patristic church father tradition. Even prodestant scholars m. F. F.
Bruce or Lee McDonald, I'll admit that that you have
to have this oral tradition that comes from the Church
Fathers and the Apostolic succession in the important bishoprics and sees.
And so I asked him again, how do you know
that you have the right canon of scripture? Given that
Church fathers put it the Bible together?
Speaker 1: Thank you?
Speaker 3: One thing, we find it out, It don't matter if
we know it. Don't know who put the Bible together.
What we do know is that and this is a dumbass.
That's a dumbass, right then, that what we do know,
it don't matter. The Church Fathers don't understand it Bible
that we do know. And Daniel seven and nine it
says I be held to the thrones with cast down
in an Ancient of Days?
Speaker 1: Did sit no answer?
Speaker 3: Whose garment was white as snow? Then it said in
verse thirteen, the Son of Man is coming to the
Ancient of Days.
Speaker 1: So when they.
Speaker 3: Say that Jesus is God or Jesus is the most high,
if the Ancient of Days is the most time and
the Son of Man is being presented, there is no
verse that caused Christ the Ancient of Days.
Speaker 1: So that means that there's a time. Again. Look at
the asked question. Look at that I got you jack response.
He did not ask asking any questions. I'm not asking
him no question.
Speaker 7: You just asked me real quick, fellas fellas fellas, I
got you, ja ja, I got you.
Speaker 6: Just let him because it's still being timed. Once we
get to the time, Jay, go ahead and do your thing.
Speaker 1: Because in the world he could not handle the time.
Speaker 7: He three times and it was it was question handling.
Speaker 6: So cap cap, real quick. He did ask a question,
You did not answer the question. So he was looking
for the answer to the question within the one minute time.
Speaker 7: But it's fine.
Speaker 6: What we can do is cap, I'm gonna go ahead
and give the Florida you so you can finish responding
and then after that, let's open it up, because I
do think that the audience wants to hear the back
and forth and wants to hear both of you ask
one another questions and actually answer the question. So kat
you got You actually had only ten seconds left, but
I'll give you an extra thirty seconds.
Speaker 1: Do your thing, bro, I appreciate it man that time.
Speaker 5: So if the Ancient of days is there before the
Son of Man, then that means the Ancient of days existed.
Speaker 1: Outside of the Son of Man. So Jesus can't be
that god.
Speaker 3: If in Revelations the fifth chapter we see that same
most time sitting in the throne, and then the lamb
who's from the tribe of Judeah being presented before that throne,
he can't be that guy. And Revelation is the third
chapter and the twelfth verse. This is what Christ said,
and I landed right here. I might go a little
bit past the time him that overcome it. Will I
make a pillow in the temple of my God Jesus talking,
and he shall go no more out. And I will
write upon the name of my God, in the name
of the city of my God, which is New Jerusalem.
Speaker 1: Which come down out of heaven from my God.
Speaker 3: And that one verse Christ said he had a God
full time, so he cannot be that God if he
has that God.
Speaker 6: All right, got it, time and cap I gave you
an extra twenty minutes there, But totally cool, man, Jay,
I was aid twenty seconds.
Speaker 7: I mean, j floor is yours.
Speaker 6: I know you wanted to ask him some questions and
get some answers to the questions that you ask the
go ahead.
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, Well, it would have been a good idea
maybe to look into the Orthodox doctrine of the Trinity,
if you wanted to come to debate that, because you
would know that we teach monarchical trinitarianism, which is the
teaching that the Father is the one true God, the
source fount and arcade. However, the word God, I know
you have a really hard time with grammar and words.
They seem to really trip you up. But the word
God is a general term, just like the word nation
is a general term. It can be proper or it
can be nonproper. I know that's really hard for you.
But in the same way, the word God can pick
out the person of the Father, it can pick out
the divine nature that the Son and the Spirit share
and it can pick out divine operations and energies. So
that's monarchical trinitarianism. And all of your questions don't even
deal with that, because we believe that Daniel nine, Daniel seven,
all of these passages teach monarchical trinitarianism. Now again, I
asked you multiple times, how do you know that you
have the right Bible?
Speaker 1: Given that you said the church fathers are garbage? Can
you repeat the question please?
Speaker 5: You said the church fathers are all dumb and garbage.
But the Church fathers have the oral tradition that lets
us know the authors of the Gospels, the authors of
the epistles, and they put the Bible together centuries after
the time of Christ's apostles.
Speaker 1: And you want to know, why do I call them dumb?
Is that the question? No?
Speaker 5: Do you want me to ask the question for the
fourth time? How do you know you have the right
biblical canon?
Speaker 1: Oh? Thank you, because the Church.
Speaker 3: Actually I know I have the right biblical canon because
the Church fathers don't know it, and I do. That's
how I know, because when I look at what the
Church fathers are saying. When the Church fathers are saying
that there's a trinity in the Bible. But when I
read the Bible, I don't see trinity. I know that
the church fathers don't know what they're saying, and I
know that the Lord will put his spirit, just like
he put his spirit.
Speaker 1: He put his spirit on Judas to do his job.
He put his spirit on Saul and do his job.
Speaker 3: So having people maintain the records does not mean that
you understand it. In the Book of Amos, the third
chapter says he reveal it nothing except to his prophets.
So having the Bible in our hand, you know what
they created. They created a white image of Jesus. Even
though the image that they have of Jesus does not matter.
So just because they have the records and they portray
and they give us something does not mean that it
matches biblically. That's why Paul said, let God be true
and every man a liar. So the Orthodox Church are
dumb and their liars because nothing they teach can be
substantiated in the Bible.
Speaker 1: This Jesus, this Trinity.
Speaker 3: There's even not even a verse that says trinity, not
even a verse that he said trinity in the Bible.
Speaker 5: But that's what the church fathers believe. Okay, I have
a question. Is there a verse that says what the
Bible is?
Speaker 1: The Bible is? I'll use the verse Romans fifteen. What
what is in the Bible? What? What? Where's the verse
that tells you Bible?
Speaker 5: I don't know if there's a verse that tells you
what I would what I would say, I would use.
Speaker 3: I would use probably Torah because it means law or instructions.
And like Paul said in Romans fifteen and four, whatsoever
was written before time was written for our learning that
do pass and comfort of the scriptures, we might have hope,
but that understanding. Even Christ said, I'm glad that he
kept this from the wise and prudent and gave it
unto babes.
Speaker 1: Why did that matter? Because even the Pharisees during Christ's time,
I didn't understand it.
Speaker 3: Even Peter, when Peter was speaking, and they saw the
boldness of Peter, they knew that he rolled with Christ.
Speaker 1: And whether they call them, whether they call them question.
Speaker 5: They called them unlearned men, though they would call up
that's not unlearned, that's in the Bible. Even though they
even though they would call unlearned men they had, They
had twice with him.
Speaker 1: They had the power to heal, they had the power
to take life.
Speaker 3: Even though they were called this is not an answer
to the church fathers are dumb and you're dumb.
Speaker 1: We know you think that you're dumb. That's why you
didn't answered.
Speaker 5: That's why you wanda respond, and that's why you can't
answer a dumb person's question.
Speaker 3: Answered the question. You said, how they keep your record?
And I asked it, I answered it. I have a
question you didn't like to answer. Can you restate what
my argument was about the canon? Your argument was, how
can the Orthodox be dumb when they the ones that
retain and restore the cannon gave identity to like Matthew, Mark,
Luke and John because they didn't have an offer.
Speaker 1: So how do I know that the canon that I read?
Speaker 3: Is?
Speaker 1: What is your answer?
Speaker 3: And I and my answer was them not them teaching
what they teach, and then me reading the Bible lets
me know that the Bible is true.
Speaker 1: That was my answer. And then you chuckled at it because.
Speaker 5: You said, how you know you have the right Bible
because y'all don't teach it?
Speaker 1: Right? I just answered that, and then you laugh like
you laughing now. And then I went into the how
do you know?
Speaker 5: How do I know you don't have the wrong Bible?
Speaker 1: And the first and the first thing I said, well,
how do you know that you don't have the right Bible? No?
I know that I have the right Bible?
Speaker 3: How because okay, here's a more maybe you'll understand this,
And you go, I'm about to tell you so when
you go into the Hebrew or Greek that it was
originally written.
Speaker 1: They don't know those likes and compare it. And you
speak Hebrew. I didn't blame you. You did, but speak
speak Hebrew. I don't claim to. So why did you
say I don't know the language? If you're dumb ass,
I don't know stupid, don't know English. I would have
been impressed. If you don't know English grammar, I would
have spoke. I would have been impressed. Because you don't
know Hebrew.
Speaker 3: Even I can say Shammai, yes God, I just gave
you credle here o Israel the Lord. I don't speak
even I just speak just on your dumb ass. That's
how you know you's a dumb ass nigga, that's a man,
because you can't even speak the language that you tell
me I can't speak when I say to the language,
and then you.
Speaker 1: Respond by saying you don't. You don't know the language.
You can't even speak. You're you asked me a question, man,
you can't even know yourself. Why do I have to
be I didn't claim as I was answering your question if.
Speaker 5: You don't think these languages because you don't know basic
English grammar, listen, so as I was saying, when you Greek,
when you go English in the original language that it was.
Speaker 1: Written in, do you know the language language to you
know them? I don't believe you English. You can compare
and say, okay, I.
Speaker 5: Don't believe those languages which don't.
Speaker 1: Go to that word.
Speaker 7: Fell's let one another plan.
Speaker 1: I just spoke Hebrew.
Speaker 5: You literally think that I spoke Hebrew by reciting and
memory I couldn't speak it.
Speaker 1: Then that means that I had to go somewhere too long,
They had to go somewhere to read. The dumbest person
of that, I can't you can't believe this, dum last
Nigga is.
Speaker 5: Saying, is it man, you are not a student?
Speaker 1: You don't know those language? Hey? Cool?
Speaker 8: Hello?
Speaker 1: He lo before because you don't actually know those speak Hebrew.
Agree you know how I know? I didn't claim to
But you said I just claim to either. Yes you did. No,
I did not. I said, when you go No, I
did not. I said, when you go to the language.
What I said was.
Speaker 3: When you you don't know language, I said, when you
go to the knows that it was really written. And
you compare the Hebrew English, you don't know how you
compare it.
Speaker 1: You don't know the languages.
Speaker 3: You how you learn it? To me, how you compare
it is you would have to learn it.
Speaker 1: You don't know.
Speaker 3: So they have Hebrew anybody can get, and they got
Hebrew for dummies that you can learn.
Speaker 1: There's ways that you can learn the language. You ain't
done it, though I did. Hey can you show what
you learned in Hebrew and Greek? Can you show it?
I didn't claim to know, you show you.
Speaker 5: I never claimed it. I said, if you go look
at I don't know you did like that. I don't
know Spanish, like concs. Somebody give me something to Spanish
and I'm gonna go compare it to the English and
back and forth and make a comparative.
Speaker 1: Hebrews said you don't have so right now.
Speaker 3: If I have Amos in front of me and this
is all the lower stuff, if you go eastward.
Speaker 4: You.
Speaker 6: Fellas, I let that rock he cap, Cap, that's cool.
Let's let's get into because we've been doing this debate
now for an hour and a half. It just hit
an hour and a half march, So I'll leave it
open to you guys. What do you guys want? Do
you guys want to get into another topic we were
just going over?
Speaker 7: Is Christ the most high God?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 7: Do you guys want to get into something else?
Speaker 6: Or do you want to do closing statements like how
much time do you guys have?
Speaker 1: Let's close savings and super jets. We don't want to do.
Speaker 6: Okay, you want to close it? That's cool, that's because
that's that's right on time.
Speaker 3: That's the cow which said that. I didn't say that.
I just want to know the coward is running cap.
Speaker 7: What do Cap?
Speaker 1: What do you want the Virgin?
Speaker 3: Did Christ have a father? It was Joseph, the biological father.
But this niggas running from it?
Speaker 7: Okay, that's Cap. You want that Jay? You want to Jay?
You want to spend ten minutes on this.
Speaker 4: Jay?
Speaker 7: You want to do ten minutes on it or.
Speaker 1: No, I'm the man that's shooting you.
Speaker 5: I don't want to do no more as Nigga.
Speaker 3: You are in a bitch Nigga University. That's what you are, Jay,
Nigga University.
Speaker 7: All right, a Fellas Fellas Fellas running a bit Fellas Fellas.
Let me go ahead and just I'm gonnamute both y'all.
Speaker 6: We're gonna do closing statements and I'm going to mute
the person during the closing statement. You both have four
minute closing statements. Right after the four minutes of closing statements. Uh,
we are going to get into uh super chats. It's
so many of them, but I'll try to go ahead
and read you know, the higher amounts.
Speaker 7: Uh so, Yeah, that's what we're gonna do.
Speaker 6: Uh so Yeah, And then if you guys want, I mean,
I like to open it up to open panel, have
you know, have people come on and maybe ask a question.
But who knows if you don't have time for that, Jay,
totally fine. I know you're a busy man. You're on
a generational run, torn around and stuff and cap I
know you've got a busy life as well. So uh
since Jay, open first. Cat, you are gonna close first,
and Jay is gonna close last. So cap once I
take you off mute, and once you start speaking, that's
when I'm going to start my timer.
Speaker 7: I'm going to keep j muted.
Speaker 6: He cannot interrupt you at all during your closing, So
say whatever you want. Kat, You're unmuted, and your time
starts once you start speaking.
Speaker 1: Man, you should have done that. Shit, this whole debate.
I don't know if I can hear that, but we're
gonna get him the fuck out of here.
Speaker 5: And when you see that scary movie with Marlin Wayans,
he was like, run, bitch, run, that's Jay.
Speaker 1: Jay's the bitch of this debate. Let that be for
the record.
Speaker 3: So, as I knew this debate would go, I had
never really heard of Jay Dye, and somebody reminded me
that actually we debated, and I wasn't aware of it.
Speaker 1: So they send me the video, and in that video, he.
Speaker 3: Was trying to tell me that the word Jewish was
in the Old Testament, but when you went to the word,
it wasn't Jewish, it was a different word. And then
I realized I was dealing with an ignorant bastard so
I knew it was going to come a time where
he would be to me have a no decorum, He
would interrupt, he would be rude, and he would be
name caller, And so I knew at a point I
would have to do the same thing back. But I
did not want to do that. I did not want
to have the type of debate where we got to
do the name calling and ad homs and all that stuff.
At some point we have to be grown men to
do something better. But if he wants to be a
trash or white man, trashed, and I'll join a minute
and just show how he's in the bitch nigga university.
But this is very easy. None of the church follows
fully agreed. That's why they had the counselors, and then
at the end of the councilors when they would finally
agree and establish what they believe is their orthodox Christianity.
But when you go into the Bible, that orthodox Christianity
does not line up in the Bible.
Speaker 1: And this back and forth, he did not show any.
Speaker 3: Nation by name that received the adoption, the Covenant or
the promises. He did not have an answer when I
read Hebrews eight and eight in a New Testament when
it says I would make a New Testament, excuse me,
new covenant with the House of Israel, with the House
of Judah. He did the normal minutia that Christians do
where they bring up the word Greek, they bring up
the word gentile when gentile just means gentile in the
New Testament, is goyam. I'm sorry, Ethnos in the New Testament,
is goyam in the Old Testament, and anybody they can
be an fnos or goam. So you have to look
at the context. So clearly our established who the Gentiles was.
Then on the subject of Jesus being God and Jesus
being the most tied God specifically, he did not have
no answer.
Speaker 1: But if we read the Bible, Jesus says he has
a God.
Speaker 3: Jesus said, He's going to give you the name of
his God, the temple of his God, the city of
his God. So if Jesus has no problem acknowledging the
God that he has, then we should not be trying
to put Jesus on the level of that God because
it's disrespectful to him, especially when we could read in
the Bible where God made Moses of God in Exodus
the seventh chapter in Psalms eighty two and six, and
it says, ye are God.
Speaker 1: So the title of God is never what I'm arguing.
Speaker 3: What I'm arguing is when people make Jesus the most
tied God, because if the Ancient of days existed when
nothing else existed, then that means that there was a
time when the sun was not which is what Totillian
quoted from whoever he got it from, who cares. So
I just wanted to point that out. This was this
was spirited. I gave my audience something that they could enjoy.
We knew how cool he was gonna be. We knew
Cooley would be biased. That's my listen, COOLi giving that
little face. But Cooly, you know, Coolly is COOLi Now
I happen to like COOLi but and then I don't
like Cooly. I'll be liking cooling and I'm like, come on, COOLi.
So Cooly was my audience, y'all give me a scale
of one to ten? How good cool he was a moderator?
Speaker 1: Y'all? Let me know, But I need to hold four
minutes out landed right there?
Speaker 6: All right, cap, all right, cap, This is not my debate.
So I have no rebuttal it's not my debate, right,
we have many debates before.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it.
Speaker 6: We'll save that for another time, all right, Jake, give
me one second here, let me restart the timer, and
once you start speaking, let me take you off a
mute as well. Yeah, once you start speaking, I'll start.
Speaker 1: I have a link there too, if you want to
pull that bottom.
Speaker 7: Link there up just for you want me to pull
it up now.
Speaker 5: If you get a chance, Yeah, I'll go into and
then I'll go to when it goes out.
Speaker 1: Refutes what he said.
Speaker 5: Paul says in Romans one that he is an apostle
called by Christ to confirm what was taught in the
prophets that came before.
Speaker 1: That's the Old Testament prophets.
Speaker 5: Concerning the son Jesus Christ, our Lord, who is born
of the flesh according to the seed of David, that's
his human nature, but was declared son of God according
to the spirit of Holiness. So to be a son
of God means that you have the nature of your father.
Speaker 1: I have a son.
Speaker 5: That means he's going to have my nature, human nature.
So Jesus being of his human nature of the flesh.
It's not a contradiction with him being also of his divinity,
the son of his father, according to eternal generation, which
is described in John chapter one. In fact, he asked
for proof of the deity of Christ. Well, it turns
out there are every chald In other words, in every
chapter of the Book of John, there is a reference
either to the deity of Christ or to the Trinity.
And I have a whole lecture through the entirety of
the Gospel John on my channel for you going go
check it out.
Speaker 1: But if you look at that link, you'll see right.
Speaker 5: There underneath that link there again this is an illiterate person.
And so when we go to actual Hebrew Blue Letter
Bible Strong's Dictionaries H. Three six four, which talks about
the word yahudi or Yahudite, which is where we get
the word Jew, you will see that in Zechariah eight
twenty three, Jeremiah forty three, Esther two, et cetera. There
are multiple references there to the word Hudite, which is
where we get the word Jew. Jesus says in John
for salvation is of the Jews, again refuting what this
person said, who's fundamentally illiterate, just like he didn't even
understand the self own when he admitted in his talk
that Moses is called a God. Yeah, that means that
the word God can refer to different things. That's exactly
what I argued. So Jesus having a God means that
the Father is is God. That's monarchical trinitarianism. That's our position.
But that's also an explanation as to why there's so
many passages in the Old and New Testament referring to
the Son as divine, the one who appeared to Moses,
the one who appeared to Hagar, who hegar saw God
face to face. Well, Jesus says that no one sees
the Father. So who was the God that appeared in
the Old Testament and all those Theophanes? It has to
be the Son. And in fact, in John five through nine,
Jesus identifies himself as the Son of God, the God
that appeared in the Old Testament. That's why the Jews
want to stone him. So this idiot doesn't even understand grammar,
and that the word nation can refer to a proper
noun like Israel, a specific nation, or something general like
the nations in general.
Speaker 1: He goes back and forth with who.
Speaker 5: Not understanding words and reference, much like the rest of
his cult, who thinks that terms like the word Jewish
means kind of Jew, but the black Heber Israelites are
the real Jew. This is so fundamentally stupid that anyone
would actually believe this. But that's like saying Kurdish means
that you're kind of curd but not real, or if
you're a kingfish, you're kind of a fish but not
really a fish. These are people who don't know grammar,
and so they're not actually going to be able to
execute the scriptures, much less the Church fathers, which are
actually the people to put together the Bible that he uses.
When I asked him that, he said there is doom.
Speaker 1: They garbage diy doom.
Speaker 5: Without actually understanding that that means that you're getting your
book from garbage, dumb people.
Speaker 1: You idiot. That's all I have to say.
Speaker 6: All right, thank you both for that, gentleman. So I've
read a pole and the chat is asking me to
bring up the post. So the poe is simply, you know,
who do you have winning the debate? We have a
Let me go ahead and end that poll right now,
and let's see what we got looks like it is
unanimous Jay Dyer one. We have one thousand, four hundred
votes in ninety two percent for Jay Dyer, eight percent
for Cat. But you know, both of you are winners
in my eyes. Thank both of you for coming on podcast.
Thank both you gentlemen for joining the show tonight and
giving us all this wonderful debate. But let me get
to some of these super chats real quick. It's too
many of them, so I'm not going to be able
to get to all of them. Actually, let me do
it on my phone because it's probably be the best
way get the likes up to if you're supporting this.
We got a lot of other one the one debates
on my channel me versus other people. And oh, I'm
sure i'll be having Captain Tuzariak back in Jay as well.
I'll be hosting them on my platform to debate others.
So go ahead and subscribe to the YouTube channel if
you already aren't.
Speaker 7: And one second, let's pull up some of these super chats.
Speaker 6: All right, So I'm trying to get to the ones
that's over twenty. We got Rachel Wilson sending in twenty dollars.
She says, this low IQ garbage is thinly veiled black supremacy.
And this guy dances because he thinks he won something
when his argument actually refuted his own position, but he
doesn't even understand that. Mind boggling. Okay, thank you Rachel Wilson.
This was in regards to you, Kapya. You want to respond.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when people say we're black supremacists, it shows that
they don't do a lot of research on us, because
in America, we're about blacks, Latinos, and Native Indians. So
we're Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, Dominicans, Guatemalans, Haitians, Jamaicans with more
than just about what people think of just black people.
Speaker 1: So I think.
Speaker 3: That white woman is extremely ignorant and unlearned when.
Speaker 1: She says that.
Speaker 3: And I don't know where my position was defeated at
any point. Biblically, I can't help with people's emotions, but biblically,
none of my positions were defeated.
Speaker 6: Hellena, fair enough, All right, we got Ortho Joe sending
in fifty dollars. I appreciate the support, man, he says,
I'll be laughing at Jay the queen dive roast of
this guy forever. So here's a super chat as a
thank you, all right, man, appreciate the support. Who else
we got in here for the and I appreciate all
the ones that's uh, you know, that's five dollars and
two dollars and stuff. I appreciate all of those, but
I'm only trying to read the bigger chats. Since we've
been already over the time. I'll read some of the
ten dollars ones as well. Let's see here we got
bb bb since then ten dollars. Not sure what currency
that is, but he says three k watching three hundred
and thirty likes.
Speaker 7: Hit the like button and subscribe. No fool gayzy podcast
do that for me?
Speaker 6: No fool gayzy who gu we got? Hey d says
I'll pay Cap one hundred dollars to take an IQ
test live. Okay, Cap, you want to respond to that?
Speaker 5: No, the Bible says if any man be ignorant, let
him be ignorant. One hundred dollars would definitely not be
enough for me to play puppet for you.
Speaker 1: I'm not a broken person.
Speaker 6: Fair enough, fair enough, we got BK finance says coolly
shut shout out to you. Cap, can't debate, only preach
false doctrine when a reply cap.
Speaker 3: No, well, I expect this from your audience, but nobody
can refute what I said.
Speaker 1: In the Bible. I mean, I'm, I'm. You know.
Speaker 3: People were so emotional because everybody want to believe God
loves everybody. If Christ coming back to take crowns. Even
in Jay's opening statement when he said the kings was
coming to present gifts, he didn't tell you the violence
behind it. And Isaiah's sixtieth chapters says the kings shall
be thy nursing fathers. So the kings that were once
ruling are now going to be the nursing fathers of
the children of Israel. So how could that be for everybody?
There's gonna be one in the heavenly state, one in
a punishing state.
Speaker 1: But the church, what have you believe?
Speaker 3: That this God loves everybody? And it's just not true.
So I thought violence was bad. You said violence was bad.
I don't know why again, the bitch nigga. This is
why you're in the bitch nigga university because.
Speaker 1: It's not to you.
Speaker 3: And the white man is the last person that should
ask for the viol already not I would have not
said anything if you could shin up.
Speaker 1: That's all he asked. The question.
Speaker 3: Now he didn't want to talk about because the bitch ran.
But the bitch want to talk while.
Speaker 1: I just can't.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about let's talk about the virgin birth. Let's
talk about the virgin birth. Let's talk about the virgin
of birth.
Speaker 1: Violence. You got time to interrupt, and you got time
to talk about the virgin birth.
Speaker 6: Right, Captain j Captain Jay Ja, let me get let me,
let me get to the next super let me get
it an next super chest. And also, while I'm reading
these super chests, they may be posed to one of you.
If someone's gonna respond to it, I'll go ahead and
allow you know, uh, Cat, it's okay if Jay responds
as well to you.
Speaker 7: And if if.
Speaker 6: There's a super chest, yes, If no, If there's a
super jet super chat directed towards Jay and he responds
and you're not you don't like his response, you can
go ahead and then make a rebuttal to what he's
saying as well. It's totally fine. It's still at debate currently, right,
Rachel Wilson. Again, she says, Hey, guys, I can speak
Japanese watch a domo ari ghetto, mister Roboto, we speak
Japanese and she fair enough, we got uh. Let's see here,
we got yamaha. Since in uh some cash, he says,
this cap can join the lot with Trump and Brian Shapiro.
Speaker 7: With T jumping. I think he meant Trump. Okay, T
jumping grew up? Oh, T jump? Oh, who's T jump?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 1: One of the worst debates ever had.
Speaker 6: Oh okay, okay, T jump Okay, So it's T jump
and Brian Shapiro. Okay, fair enough. Let me see what
else we got in here? We got a let's see here.
Speaker 7: Where we at.
Speaker 6: Ten dollars from mL Ross says Jay, I'm the captain now, dire.
Speaker 7: Okay, all right, let me see what else we got
in here? Uh we got uh.
Speaker 6: Te waha te woho. Okay, he says. Okay, we are
the sons of Adams, so we have all adams attributes,
including a beginning.
Speaker 7: Jesus is own.
Speaker 6: Jesus is the only begotten of God, meaning Jesus has
all God's attributes.
Speaker 7: Including no beginning and no end.
Speaker 6: Okay, fair enough, all right, let me see, Uh did
I miss anything we got with kid? He says, Hey, captain,
would you like some cheese with the wine? And okay,
let me read this again. Hey, cap, would you like
some cheese with the wine? You were having while your
feelings were taking over because of being called a name? Okay,
and you reply to that Cap, he's basically saying that
you were you were wining. Okay, fair enough, right, let
me see what else we got in here. Uh, I'm
trying to make sure we get to all of the
bigger ones.
Speaker 3: Pauls uh, you know, I gave up the Paul's game
was egregious for real?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 7: We we got a uh emma emm a legion a man.
Speaker 6: I can't even read that name, but it says Q
for captain, is Jesus?
Speaker 7: A question?
Speaker 6: For Captain is Jesus angelic being that is Jesus angelic
being that was created?
Speaker 7: Or second person of God?
Speaker 8: Had I would go with.
Speaker 3: Kind of both of a meaning He's I wouldn't I
wouldn't know. I don't know if I would say angelic
because he's he outranks the angels, but his power is
greater than that as far as the god Head goes.
We're all supposed in collagens. We're all supposed to be
a part of that Godhead. So the head of every
woman is the man. The head of the man in Christ.
The head of Christ is God. That's the Godhead. So
Christ would be our head. Christ would be if you
go by rank, the Father of the Most High is
number one, Christ is number two, then you would have
the order after that. So that's how you actually look
at it from a biblical standpoint.
Speaker 1: Can I respond, yep?
Speaker 5: In Hebrews one that says to the son, the Father
says your throne, O, God is forever and ever, a
sceptor of righteousness, is the scepter of your kingdom. The
Father is referring to this son in this prophetic Psalm
as God. So fundamentally, again we have a person who
doesn't understand grammar and how words work. They don't always
have one reference. They can refer to multiple things. Ironically,
he even admitted this in his a closing statement, Can.
Speaker 1: I say something of that when you read the next verse?
When you read the next verse.
Speaker 3: First of all, he was one of eight is a
quotation of Psalms the forty fifth chapter in reference to
in reference to David's throne, which is also the throne
of God. So you can read how Solomon sat on
the throne of the Lord in First Chronicles twenty nine
and twenty three.
Speaker 5: But when you read it, you, when you read the record,
you read the very next verse.
Speaker 3: It says thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity. Therefore God,
even thy God, hath anointed thee as I said earlier.
Psalms eighty two says, ye are gods. Moses may excuse me.
God made Moses of God. So the subject is not
about being called you making. The subject is about is
Jesus the most high God?
Speaker 1: When he is not? He has a god.
Speaker 5: Again, it's a both and the Father is the most
high God, and he has the same nature as his son.
Because Hebrews one eight is about Jesus. The argument in
the chapter is that Jesus is above the angels because
he created them.
Speaker 1: You cannot be a creature and not a creature.
Speaker 5: If you are a divine person, you have to be
the You have to be the same nature as the
one that you came from. So it he came from
an eternal Father and he's not a creature, then he
is God.
Speaker 1: You can't have half God.
Speaker 3: Callias's one in fifteen says, who is the image of
the invisible God, the first born of every creature. There
is no creation for the father, but there is a
creation for the son.
Speaker 5: John One describes that as an eternal begetting.
Speaker 3: He just said, is not created. It says the first
born of that one is arguing, is not. That's why
he's the ancient born, is not. It doesn't say that
this is the first born of.
Speaker 5: It says that the born of the father, the father
is not born, right of course not. Okay, Then if
the father is, and that means there's a time when
the when the son does not know the son, John
want there was never a time when he was the
son had to be borne one elusive this son.
Speaker 1: It's just a.
Speaker 7: Simple question, ak Fellas.
Speaker 1: That's a simple question.
Speaker 7: Okay, Fellas, Yeah, yep, Jay, go ahead, and answers question.
Speaker 1: Is did this did the son question? Dude?
Speaker 7: Captain you asked the question. Just let him answer it, okay.
Speaker 5: And John One, we have in the entire chapter discussion
of what it means to be the firstborn, what it
means to be the eternally begotten son. You cannot have
a time where you come to be if you are
forever in the bosom of the Father, eternally begotten.
Speaker 1: So when you read John one, is this got possessed?
Like what is the son born?
Speaker 5: If the son is born and the father is not born,
then there's a time when it was the father without
the son. Because get it and John one, it's an
eternal beginnest.
Speaker 1: It doesn't say you turn to beget it. It does
it does? Where? Where? Where? Because in John one and
one that you reference, it says in the beginning, I'm
talking about after that. If you get later in the chapter, yeah,
let me see.
Speaker 3: Uh fourteen says in the Word was made flesh and
dwelt among us as we beheld the glory is the
only begotten of the Father for the grace right there right.
Speaker 1: But always in the it says we beheld the glory.
Speaker 5: It was always in the bosom of the Where does
it say the bosom there is no such thing.
Speaker 1: As a created God created God? Where does we say?
Speaker 3: Okay, when God made Moses and God didn't he create
a god the word God?
Speaker 5: In the seventy one, God said to Moses, behold, I
have made.
Speaker 1: The a God you are.
Speaker 5: I've been telling you God did God created God? The
word God has multiple references.
Speaker 3: About You said, you're telling me God can create a God,
and I just gave a verse.
Speaker 1: That God cares to God.
Speaker 7: That's equivocation.
Speaker 1: It's equivocation because well, that's.
Speaker 7: Not a help.
Speaker 6: I'm just I'm trying to bridge the gap on the
confusion origin.
Speaker 1: He said, be.
Speaker 5: Created, and you tell me what equivocation?
Speaker 1: It was a time when I don't know the definition.
There's a time when the Father was you don't know what.
Speaker 5: I do know that it says Christ is the first
born of all creation, separation of so understand the father,
the son is the first, the first one.
Speaker 1: That the Father was.
Speaker 7: Okay, Cap, we can stop. No, you're good, Cap, No,
you're good.
Speaker 6: And this I think this conversation currently right here that's
happening is very important. So it's very important. So Cap,
equivocation just simply means that you know, you're using the
word god.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 6: You were speaking about one meaning of the word God,
but then the reference that you made was a different
meaning for God. Like of course God isn't making moses
of God like himself.
Speaker 7: So go ahead, Jay, uh answer his question.
Speaker 6: Yeah, let's just let's let's just let's have Jay answer no.
Speaker 7: No, no, that's not fair, because okay, yeah, you can
respond to me.
Speaker 1: I was just when you say I just want to
respond to Coolie for then you can help. You can
say that later.
Speaker 3: Let me just respond to cool I was not making
that equivocation, because even when you're calling an equivocation, that's
under y'all's assumption.
Speaker 1: I don't believe. I don't believe that Christ was created
as the most.
Speaker 6: You didn't even know what the word man, dude, Let's
let's yield the floor to James so he can go
ahead and respond.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you something, you can respond to. You
are your own.
Speaker 7: Cap, cap.
Speaker 6: It was Jay's time to just give a reply and
then I'll give it right back to you.
Speaker 1: But you did just say I could respond to you.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 7: I thought I thought you were finished. Are you done
responding to me? Or no?
Speaker 1: It was not because he keeps Okay, I'm.
Speaker 6: Sorry, Okay, cool you know what, cap, go ahead, finish
your response to me.
Speaker 3: So when he made this statement that God cannot be created,
that's why I went to Moses had nothing to do
with making an equivocation, because I don't think there's nobody
that compares to Christ. But I also don't think there's
nobody that compares to the most time God y'all believed.
So I wasn't making the equivocation. I was just showing
him that God created a God Psalms eighty two and six,
Ye are gods. God has created God, so he can't
use the argument.
Speaker 1: I'm done that.
Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, I'm not in the debate, cap I'm just
literally telling you what happened that that is equivocation.
Speaker 7: But let's just have Jay reply. Go ahead, Jay.
Speaker 5: What I argued was that a son comes from a
father with the same nature. And so you if you
call the son of God the son of the Father,
and he's eternally begotten, as I'm arguing, John one says,
then he cannot be a created God on that definition,
because if you have the same nature, if you come
from if you are, you have the same nature as
your dad. So you come from him, you have you
share that human nature. Well, Jesus as the son of God,
if he comes from the Father, he has to have
the Father's nature. That's why in John one it says
that the true light that came into the world.
Speaker 1: It says that the fullness of grace we have from.
Speaker 5: Him, even through through Moses, that came to law, but
grace came through Christ, the only begotten Son, who is
in the bosom of the Father.
Speaker 1: He has exegeted him as the Greek word.
Speaker 5: So that means that if he's in the bosom of
the Father when he's walking around on earth, then he's omnipresent.
You can't have divine attributes and be a creature. The
Son is divine, and that's why John one calls him
God and logos the word God and John one is
a reference to the divine nature that he shares with
the Father. The word God that you're talking about in
the Psalms when it colls Moses, God proves my point.
Speaker 1: I told you at the beginning that the word God
can have different reference, So thank you appreciate it.
Speaker 3: You actually died again by using the father's son analogy,
because I agree with that I have a father. I
have the same thing. You admit, this is what I'm saying. Man,
Why are you talking again? Then you admit he's not cruel?
Why are you talking again? So I have a father.
I can have the same nature as my father. But
there was a time when I didn't exist and just
Carl existed.
Speaker 1: You just di I just want to finish.
Speaker 3: I just want to finish that, Jesus, because give me
analogy that you gave. My father had me when he
was like twenty seven, so that means for twenty seven years.
Speaker 1: I did not exist. You're a creator, and then my father.
Speaker 3: Arg and then my father impregnated my mother, and then
I was born.
Speaker 1: You understand, you're idiot.
Speaker 3: I don't know why you would use I would I
don't know why you would use me having you.
Speaker 5: I don't even know what an analogogy because that's the
analogy analogy.
Speaker 3: My point is, what's an analogy there is at the
time when the father existed and not the son. Your
counter to my argument was to say that I have
a father and I have the same nature.
Speaker 1: As Jesus, which I agree, Jesus.
Speaker 3: My argument was not that Christ did not have the
his father's argument was that the father existed with that.
Speaker 1: That was your thousand. So now my question to.
Speaker 3: You, dies nature, did my father exist without your creature?
Speaker 1: An analogy? That's true?
Speaker 5: An analogy is the first born of every creature, and
he's a creature, then that is the creature. It says
on one shows the other creature.
Speaker 1: One says, who is the image of the invisible god?
The first?
Speaker 5: It says he his father's nature? Does it call him
the first born nature? Does it call him?
Speaker 1: You want to answer? I never argue. He doesn't want
to answer because the future, no problem. He has he
have his father's nature. Gonna answer the question? Does he
have his father's nature? You keep saying I'm gonna answer?
Speaker 7: Okay, j let him give him a chance to reply.
Not gonna answer it.
Speaker 1: I am gonna answer it.
Speaker 3: I said he has his father's nature. Create the argument
the father? Answer your question? I answered your question.
Speaker 1: Does the father is the father uncreated?
Speaker 3: No, you can't ask. I asked my question first. So
just colo team, you just own yourself.
Speaker 1: Callot why you can't answer the question? Because fifteen call
you admitted? He asked father's nature? You're created? And you
answer that question.
Speaker 7: Okay, I got you. I got you.
Speaker 6: Yep, yep, yep, real quick, real quick this. I think
this is very important, Captain. I'm gonna let you fully
get everything out.
Speaker 7: Jay asked the question. No, No, Jay asked the question.
Speaker 6: You did answer, But then Jay asked the follow up question,
what's your answer to that?
Speaker 7: Follow can you repeat that follow up question?
Speaker 5: Admitted that he asked his father's nature the father's uncreated.
Speaker 1: You just owned yourself. He didn't you say you didn't
answer a question, So now go he didn't.
Speaker 5: You just said, I just owned the Does he if
he has the father's nature, then is he not uncreated
because the father's nature is created.
Speaker 3: No, that's not true because even in the answer that
you I'm going to answer, So even in the analogy
that you gave, my father.
Speaker 1: Created me, created, nature created.
Speaker 6: I want to like you now he doesn't think he's
asking is the father's nature uncreated? That's the question, right, Jake,
that's three questions? Yeah, is the father's nature uncreated?
Speaker 1: Idiot? Just answer it.
Speaker 3: If the father himself it is not created. For the record,
nothing you said Jesus has his natu about the father
that the son has his nature. There's nothing about the
father that is created. That's why he's called And you
said the son you just as he's called the answer
of days. So now I want to ask him to
questions and he already asked me three. Cool, you're done,
you asked me. I just want to ask them to
admit idiot.
Speaker 6: Okay, Jay, Jay, let him go ahead and not get
his off real quick. Go ahead, cat the logic and
then we're gonna finish off with the Superchicks.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, you just go one. In fifteen, does it
call Christ a creature? Yes? Or no? No?
Speaker 5: Colliss one in fifteen you just submitted he is not
a creature, you idiot?
Speaker 1: So who is admitted he is not a creature? Once again?
Speaker 5: The admitted creature? Who is the image of the INVISI
three questions? Not cool because I didn't follow up three
like he had three?
Speaker 6: Hey, Jay, just let him get let him ask his
questions real quick, Jack, he just reviewed him. I know,
but Jay, just give him the time to let him
ask his questions, and then you just give your answers
to go ahead.
Speaker 3: Who is the image of the invisible God? Is that
not Christ? Eternally right?
Speaker 1: So I want my audience to know.
Speaker 3: If I ask my third and final question, I want
the audience to understand he's saying Christ is not a creature.
But the verse just said who is the image of
the invisible God? Which he admitted was Jesus, and he
calls that image of the invisible God a creature? My
last question question and Daniel's the seventh chapter, it calls
the Father the Ancient of Days. The Son of Man
comes before the Father. Yes, is the son of Man
the Ancient of days. No, the Ancient of Days is
the Father. That's how you know there was a time
that the Ancient of Days was just him, and the
Father was not me, and the son was not If
the Father is the Ancient of days and the Son
of Man is coming to the Ancient of days, did
that mean the son has to be created to be
presented to the Ancient of days.
Speaker 1: He just that's his ascension. That's a prediction. You can
go to this, the prediction.
Speaker 5: Of the ascension and his session to the Father when
he has sent in the Book Relation. That's the same
passage and Daniel to the Book of Revelation when he
ascended and watched with Daniel is seeing what's happening in Revelation.
Speaker 1: It's the same passenger.
Speaker 6: Okay, all right, let me get to somebody super chests
real quick. We have Johnny nick Veto sending in twenty dollars, man,
I appreciate the support, brother, He says two cap. In
the Bible, blasphemy is defined as a reverent slanderous speech
or action against God, his name or the Holy Spirit.
You have a false interpretation of scripture. Do you not
worry about your soul regarding Jesus question.
Speaker 5: I don't believe that blaspheming is what he said, blastpheming.
When he said blaspheming, that's when the Pharisee said that
he cast out demons by the prince of demons in
Christ said a house divided cannot stand. And then he
said blaspheming.
Speaker 3: The Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven, because when you
see a miracle and you credit it to anybody except
the Holy Spirit, that's blaspheming.
Speaker 1: So I have not blaspheming.
Speaker 5: Okay, Now this person is so in delusion. He doesn't
have any he has no idea what's going on?
Speaker 7: All right?
Speaker 6: We got anti social sending in twenty dollars. Man, I
highly appreciate everyone donating to the channel tonight. I guess
you guys are enjoying this spirited debate.
Speaker 7: He says.
Speaker 6: Lieutenant Dango got beat. Okay, let's see what else we
got here. I'm not even sure what that's a reference to.
We got grit's, Carlton says in twenty dollars. Appreciate the
sport man, he says, Cap, to help you understand with
an analogy, Coolly is properly black.
Speaker 7: You are generally black. Okay, fair enough? All right, you
want to reply to that, Cap? All right, let's see, all.
Speaker 6: Right, man, I think we appreciate all of the support,
but we getting a lot of super chest that's under twenty.
Speaker 7: They're popping up.
Speaker 6: So hey man, fellas, I do appreciate both of you
for coming out and joining us all thousands of people
that's watching this in this debate. And yeah, man, until
next time, go ahead and subscribe to Jay Dyer he's tagged.
Go ahead and subscribe to Captain Tazariak, he's also tagged.
If you went ahead and you like Captain's position, give
him a follow, subscribe to him. If you like Jay,
go ahead, give him a follow, subscribe to him. But
without further too, without further ado, this podcast is no
fugazy and Pace.
Speaker 7: We are out, no whoo gays who gays, and y'all
see the suit too.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 7: Listen, new studio, new podcast by the scoring, not by
the letter bro.
Speaker 6: We can go verse for verse all day long, doing
new things are okay, with's understanding the reality that we
are in competition with one another.
Speaker 1: But you ladies think that you're special. We are in comfort.
Speaker 9: Men are men of their works. So here's my word.
I'll fly you out here. We can do it in person,
and after that we could.
Speaker 1: I'm about my.
Speaker 9: Business, so remember I say, when I ask you these questions,
I will dismantle your entire argument.
Speaker 7: That's the and I'm the sake my daughter.
Speaker 1: I'm thirty nine, but I don't want to check that.
Yeah you look thirty nine.
Speaker 6: That man is an intimidated by woman like you, ain't
an normally by woman like you.
Speaker 9: Because a man doesn't want to date another man, he
wants to day a woman.
Speaker 7: All right, we wrap o cap. You're still back here, man,
I was trying to be respectful to the to the joint.
Speaker 3: Hey check your no PROB check you I G I
was saying earlier, Uh, you ain't never invite me to
the to the joint because you're in Jersey, Like, oh,
I think you're right outside of Jersey, right, Okay, So
maybe sometime in April, you know, we can link up
in person. I know we spoke about it before, so
maybe we can look up in person, right, mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Okay, I thought I had your.
Speaker 3: Number because I think we spoke on the phone before.
I'm gonna see if I have it or not and
then go from there. But but yeah, you say hit
your personal page up, so I'll.
Speaker 1: Hit that up next time. That's what I'm talking about.
Mm hmm.
Speaker 10: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: You go back, can watch it. I think. I think. God,
I'm listening.
Speaker 6: H m hmm, kind of keep count of everything, doing
my best because a lot was going on, and also
managing a chat and everything too. But I heard that,
and then when he said idiot, then I'm like, okay,
he I like that.
Speaker 7: That's even I'm guessing. So that's how I had it.
Was like it was like one strike for one strike.
Speaker 1: No, I get it. So if you didn't hear it,
I can't tell you what you heard.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I didn't hear it because I would have
if he would have just said idiot, and then you
would have replied how you replied and was like coolly,
come on out.
Speaker 7: I would have been like, Jay, you did start it.
Speaker 6: But from what I've heard, I heard you say like
the white you said white something right, No, I.
Speaker 1: Did, and so that was like after like the fourth idiot,
that's all.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, God damn man, So I didn't know what
I ain't even yeah, but.
Speaker 1: It ain't no sweat man.
Speaker 3: I do appreciate it, man, And I'm gonna definitely hit
you up and then maybe in April or May weekn
that because that's a different you know. So I don't
like I'm going to Vegas Sunday, I'm gonna sit with
that cat six or seven.
Speaker 7: Oh so yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I do stuff outside of that as well, so you know,
we could do that. I think that'll be dope.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but and I'm also trying to do like some
in person debate. So if I could definitely set up
like an in person debate with.
Speaker 7: You know you and maybe another you know, uh you know.
Speaker 6: Christ Christian apologetak you know, definitely.
Speaker 7: Because that ain't me.
Speaker 6: I can't like I'm not the scholar and so I
mean you spoke before I even to say, listen, bro,
I don't know really, I'm not I don't I don't
know the Bible verbatim, lee and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: I want some people, if you want, I could probably
find some Muslims that might be good. You give me
the you know what you're trying to do, how you
want to do it. I could probably get some people.
Speaker 6: To Yeah, yeah, if you have any that you want
to debate, you can always just send me, uh their name.
I'll go ahead and reach out or have my assistant
reach out to them so we can try to do
exactly what we did today, right, And also if they're local,
like around like an hour an hour and a half,
we can do it in person at my studio, which
would be fired.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, doing it in person,
like finding somebody local and then doing it that way.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, yeah for sure. Yeah yeah, we can definitely
do that, all right, man, have a blessed woman.
Speaker 5: I don't know why I'm gonna just turn my camera off.
I just turned my camera off because I don't know
why it's frozen like that. But I believe y'all can
hear me.
Speaker 3: I do appreciate y'all rock with me, just so y'all
know when I do these debates, I do this for y'all.
I do not understand this super chat though, this superchat
that says cap one, oh, cap to one, cap one,
the fact you paid.
Speaker 1: And lied is sad and you cheat. I don't know what.
Speaker 3: I don't know what that super to Glee team. I
don't understand the superchat. I appreciate it, but I don't
understand it. I did the other ones. This one said,
Cap got capped. Shout out to him for the superchat.
We definitely appreciate your little funky ass two dollars Jay
Bird again for ninety nine, Jay Bird, we was kings.
Appreciate that to JD. According to Romans one and seven
and seventy one, who is Paul talking to? So let
me look at Romans one and seven and Romans one
and seven. It says to all that being Rome beloved
of God called to be saints. So let me show
you something here so you could know who he was
talking to. All right, because I'm such a good sport,
So let me come over here. We're gonna go here.
We're gonna share the screen. We're gonna put it on
the screen. I don't know if I can make this bigger.
Let me see if I can make this bigger. But
when you're looking at it, it says all that are
called to be saints.
Speaker 1: So that's who it's written to.
Speaker 3: It's written to all that are called to be saints,
and the only people that were called to be saints
were Israelites. It says, Cap, Cooney is doing this on
purpose to get you to rage quit. Yes, I knew
that he was trying to get me to rage quit.
Oh question for Cap, what do you see in malachoed
one on eleven? And do you burn incense to God
and have an alter? Hebrews and Malachi one and eleven
it says, let me see, for from the rising of
the sun, even going down to the same, my name
shall be greater on the Gentiles, and every place instance
shall be offered unto my name. So when it's talking
about that, that's the every niche shall bo every tongue.
So I'll confess that's Isaiah the second chapter. Every nation
will obey, and his name will.
Speaker 5: Be great, but it'll be great under the rulership of
the children of Israel. All right, Cap debating Lieutenant Dango
from Reno nine one one before I go, All right,
before I go, If y'all don't know who Lieutenant Dango is,
let me show y'all who Lieutenant Dango is and shout
out to go.
Speaker 1: You're right.
Speaker 3: They only had they only know white theology. They don't
know the Bible. So I'm gonna take this picture. I'm
gonna show y'all who Let me just google it? I
could just google it. Let me let me slide.
Speaker 1: This over here. This was his source that he pulled up.
Let's do whereas. Let me spell a name right. Let
me see.
Speaker 3: Dangle Reno nine one one. Y'all want to see Dango?
This wait, let me get the horrible picture of Dango.
This is Dango. Let's see this. Oh, it's gonna show.
Speaker 1: The down at.
Speaker 3: I wasn't looking for a bit. Let me go to
images here. This is Dango. That's him. Let me see
if I can get another. This is that's Lieutenant Dango.
Speaker 1: That's what y'all said. That's that's Lieutenant Dango. Right there,
y'all that that's who that was. He shout, that's lieutenant
all right, man, I appreciate y'all rocking with you. Man,
I'm about to roll, so until next time, you how
about shot? Rocking thumb? Your how a small thumb boy
shot