Speaker 1: Welcome to Farmer Talk Radio. This podcast is focused on
Speaker 1: balancing between concentration and volume when developing patient centric biologics
Speaker 1: from the twenty twenty four our pod Partnership Opportunities in
Speaker 1: Drug Delivery Conference. For more information on the pod conference, editorials, podcasts,
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Speaker 2: Okay, so, welcome to this panel session. I'm Christian Jones,
Speaker 2: chief commercial officer at Naniform, and I'm a patient. Well,
Speaker 2: I guess we all are right in this room, and
Speaker 2: to me, patient centricity is about providing options to patients.
Speaker 2: We don't always know what we want though as people,
Speaker 2: so necessarily we don't necessarily know what a patient centric
Speaker 2: medicine should look like, but it means very different things
Speaker 2: depending on whether we're talking about chronic.
Speaker 3: Disease or acute illnesses.
Speaker 2: Today we're going to talk about patient centricity, but with
Speaker 2: the perspective of high concentration formulations versus higher volume drug
Speaker 2: delivery for biologics. I'm going to start off with this
Speaker 2: slide and I'd just like to talk about how payers
Speaker 2: view patient centricity. I think this is quite a nice
Speaker 2: example of remickaide from J ANDJ. You can see that
Speaker 2: in the EU five markets the biosimilar took seventy two
Speaker 2: percent of the of the dollar share and fifty one
Speaker 2: percent in the US. But as the patient centric form
Speaker 2: came forward in a subcutaneous injection, that took a rapid
Speaker 2: share of the market up to twenty seven percent already,
Speaker 2: and it'd be fascinating to see what happens as that
Speaker 2: was recently launched in the US moving forward if we
Speaker 2: go to the next slide. So this is a bit
Speaker 2: of a complex slide, and if you want to a
Speaker 2: little bit more detail about what this actually means, come
Speaker 2: and talk to me afterwards at Naniform booth. But we
Speaker 2: analyzed all of the exclusivity public relationships around high concentration
Speaker 2: formulations in subcutaneous monoclonal antibody delivery, and you can see
Speaker 2: here that the race is on to try to lock
Speaker 2: in exclusivity around certain technologies in this space with the
Speaker 2: colored bars representing different solution providers. But you know, one
Speaker 2: technology isn't always the answer for one target, and there
Speaker 2: are even examples there's one company that's actually locked in
Speaker 2: two different technologies for the same target, but it's a
Speaker 2: very very complicated space, but people are really trying to
Speaker 2: develop the most patient centric forms by accessing innovation. And
Speaker 2: with that, I'd like to move on to the discussion today,
Speaker 2: and I'd like my panelists here to introduce themselves and
Speaker 2: also to say what they believe patient centricity means to them.
Speaker 3: So perhaps we could start with Nick.
Speaker 4: Sure, Thanks Christian, So I'm mixed Schill. I head up
Speaker 4: the product.
Speaker 5: Development and commercialization team at Kaimanox, which is a life
Speaker 5: science services provider, So I would say the definition of
Speaker 5: patient centricity is pretty straightforward, but I think it starts
Speaker 5: with asking a few questions around understanding the disease journey
Speaker 5: of a particular patient population and such questions you may
Speaker 5: ask if you're developing a product, is what is the
Speaker 5: existing standard of care, what is it not getting right,
Speaker 5: what unmet need needs to be filled? And where Honestly,
Speaker 5: if you were a patient, would you actually want to
Speaker 5: use this product? And to me, that's kind of the
Speaker 5: most important question to ask, because I've encountered some products in.
Speaker 4: My career thus far that I don't know who created.
Speaker 5: This, but they obviously didn't think about who was going
Speaker 5: to use it, and that is a very difficult scenario
Speaker 5: to be in if you're a patient.
Speaker 4: Now, don't get me wrong, novel therapeutics should get the
Speaker 4: market as quickly as possible.
Speaker 5: Right If there is truly an unmet need in that space,
Speaker 5: we need to get a new therapy as quickly as possible. However,
Speaker 5: it needs to at least be usable. Maybe not patient
Speaker 5: centric to a t, but at least usable. Thanks Nick, Lindsey, Yeah,
Speaker 5: thank you.
Speaker 6: I'm Lindsay Crawford. I am in drug product development at Vizor,
Speaker 6: and to me, patient centricity is keeping in mind the
Speaker 6: patient through all those phases of development, remembering them from
Speaker 6: the beginning all the way through that commercial product, and
Speaker 6: it's thinking about what would be best for the administration
Speaker 6: of the product, but also what's going to give them
Speaker 6: the lifestyle that they deserve to have while they're taking
Speaker 6: this treatment. How can they travel, how can they live
Speaker 6: their normal life? What will make the best for them?
Speaker 3: Super thanks and Danny.
Speaker 7: Hello, Daniel, just say I lead the early engagement or
Speaker 7: the vice ability team at GSK, part of the packaging
Speaker 7: design and the vice solutions. To me, patients interest is
Speaker 7: really engaging early with our discovery colleagues. Again, working with
Speaker 7: the right target product profile to make sure that we
Speaker 7: understand that the patient needs bringing some early formative human
Speaker 7: factor study, not waiting till before phase three to start
Speaker 7: thinking about what the device should be. So really the
Speaker 7: early engagement is patient centric super.
Speaker 4: My name is Egan.
Speaker 8: I'm head of injection systems for Taketa, So patient centricity
Speaker 8: for me, in general, I think it is some deep
Speaker 8: understanding of the patient population, user, user conditions and use
Speaker 8: conditions and if this is in general term conditions contacts
Speaker 8: of developing a UH drug product delivery solutions. But if
Speaker 8: I can be laser focused on these bio logic development
Speaker 8: and I would say in this case is the the
Speaker 8: you know, high performance challenges associated with these high volume,
Speaker 8: high viscusity discussion formulation.
Speaker 3: Thanks very much.
Speaker 2: Okay, So moving to sort of the first question for
Speaker 2: the panel, and I'd like to just ask e and
Speaker 2: Lindsey what do you consider as the current state of
Speaker 2: the art today when we think about injectable biologics and
Speaker 2: what are the limitations from a formulation and a device perspective.
Speaker 3: Maybe if you could you could.
Speaker 8: Start sure I can, I can pick it off and
Speaker 8: feel free to jump in and add so these when
Speaker 8: me talk about this, you know, particular on the volume
Speaker 8: and balancing the constitution and volume. You know, maybe we
Speaker 8: first immediately jump into the liquid formulation, but keep in
Speaker 8: mind many of these biologic products are still in the
Speaker 8: solid those forms. So the there are you know, available
Speaker 8: many available options for reconstitution and of these uh solid
Speaker 8: form and those kind of devices. But primary containers most
Speaker 8: likely to be like a wiles and the you know,
Speaker 8: the delivery devices will be a syringe or so. These
Speaker 8: kind of like A configurations provided the most flexibility in
Speaker 8: terms of delivering high high volume and vi viscus UH product. However,
Speaker 8: the limit, the limitation is the usability for uh self
Speaker 8: inject injection of care. This is most likely to be
Speaker 8: like at the clinic setting, so and a little bit
Speaker 8: more convenience to the to the users UH will be
Speaker 8: the you know those for uh the deal chamber uh
Speaker 8: syringes or chamber cartridges. So this uh you know, this
Speaker 8: kind of a device. Primary container can can be integrated
Speaker 8: with a few reconstitution options and enable the self injection
Speaker 8: at home. But the likely the limitation on the volume
Speaker 8: is like a T to M L and uh you know,
Speaker 8: the viscosity. You really cannot be very high because this
Speaker 8: normally require like a you know, uh the menu injection
Speaker 8: so and the other you know, more convenient uh uh technologies.
Speaker 8: Deliberate technologies will be like pre fiell syringe based and
Speaker 8: and if it is like you know, with a safety
Speaker 8: uh devices to go together, normally this is uh. The
Speaker 8: limitation will be you know, the on the volume and
Speaker 8: normally will below tom L and there are you know
Speaker 8: a few options above TWOML, but below like five IML.
Speaker 8: I would say I would have concerts regarding the you know,
Speaker 8: the menu injection is especially for home care and also
Speaker 8: these a you know patient you know discomfort associated with
Speaker 8: this kind of a large volume injection and our injectors
Speaker 8: with the carriage or prey fill syringe is available as well.
Speaker 8: And for like a very high volume, very high uh
Speaker 8: viscosity uh, this kind of formulation we have about it
Speaker 8: verse system available in recent years, we have a few
Speaker 8: commercialized per okay, yes, super and lindsay, yeah.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 6: I think the you know, the current kind of ideal
Speaker 6: scenario is that it's alone enof volume, Like we said,
Speaker 6: you typically find that it's like two mills for maybe
Speaker 6: a subcutaneous injection, and I think the challenge that we're
Speaker 6: facing is that with some of these products that require
Speaker 6: a higher dose, the volume either needs to be higher
Speaker 6: than that or you have to have a very high
Speaker 6: concentration of your product. And with those high concentrations, you
Speaker 6: tend to run into those challenges where you not only
Speaker 6: have technical challenges during administration with high viscosity, but you
Speaker 6: can also have manufacturing challenges with those high viscosities as well.
Speaker 6: And so I think overcoming those challenges from the technical
Speaker 6: perspective will really be transformational for what we can do
Speaker 6: in the future.
Speaker 2: Super great answers. So turning from what's today you know
Speaker 2: a parent and what we can use to perhaps what's
Speaker 2: on the horizon, Danny, I am keen to understand your
Speaker 2: perspective with respects to what do you see coming that's
Speaker 2: going to be really exciting in this field.
Speaker 7: Yes, I'll split in two different technologies and some of
Speaker 7: the internal processes in the industry, some of the changes,
Speaker 7: and we're fortunate to have a lot of great example
Speaker 7: here at pub this week on the processes. I've been
Speaker 7: hearing a lot of the same team around formulation, packaging,
Speaker 7: device coming in together our early alignment with clinical and
Speaker 7: commercial to design the right product. To me that this
Speaker 7: is really exciting, you know, this is the early engagement,
Speaker 7: the time to start.
Speaker 3: As far as.
Speaker 7: Technology, usually with the help of some of the excipients,
Speaker 7: you can formally probably around one hundred and one fifty
Speaker 7: two hundred.
Speaker 3: The most make PROMIL. Some of the new nano.
Speaker 7: Micropowericles and polymer technology are helping us to push some
Speaker 7: of the boundaries up to four or five and maybe
Speaker 7: even six hundred MAKEPROMIL. So a lot of work to
Speaker 7: do to make sure here we form stable drug product
Speaker 7: in the end and it can be delivered properly.
Speaker 3: But a lot of the exciting work in that film
Speaker 3: absolutely and e any thoughts on that too.
Speaker 8: In the device technology area, so there were recent years
Speaker 8: development of a large volume of architectures, so large volume
Speaker 8: above two mL and below like five m L. There
Speaker 8: are so many A few device vendors also are presenting
Speaker 8: their technologies here in this conference and to overcome just
Speaker 8: inject volume larger than five amml or even like a
Speaker 8: you know, very viscous uh formulations. The body deliverer technologies
Speaker 8: are you know on the horizon. Actually there are like
Speaker 8: two three commercialized products on the market already with one
Speaker 8: just withdraw recent today. So on body deliverse system has
Speaker 8: seems you know, provided the UH the most potential for
Speaker 8: large volume UH and from formulations UH the standpoint, there
Speaker 8: were so many new advanced formulation technologies are available in
Speaker 8: the development already.
Speaker 4: So in the UH yesterday and today.
Speaker 8: There are a few printations regarding the nanoparticles microsphere suspensions.
Speaker 8: So these you know, these are very very exciting and
Speaker 8: then you know quickly these formulation concentration can be like
Speaker 8: a double even like a triple from you know traditional formulation, right,
Speaker 8: so it can be even rich above neck six hundred
Speaker 8: milligrams per amal or a thousand mediagram per depending on
Speaker 8: the technology we are talking about. Another thing to U
Speaker 8: technology to enable these a large volume injection is that
Speaker 8: that the enzyme development. So just an example, where would
Speaker 8: be like the HOLOGYM to improve the dissipation of the
Speaker 8: liquid in the subculteneous tissue and then in a very
Speaker 8: large bollets UH deliverery.
Speaker 2: Yeah absolutely, obviously you know all these innovations, they're they're great.
Speaker 2: But with with with innovation comes challenges as well. So
Speaker 2: we have to really think technically, regulatory wise, and commercially
Speaker 2: how to address them to make sure that these innovations
Speaker 2: can to market for the benefit of patients. Final question
Speaker 2: really is around what's got the potential to completely disrupt
Speaker 2: the future of drug delivery in the biologic space. You know,
Speaker 2: we see what's going on now, but what is the
Speaker 2: panacea in this space and what are the barriers that
Speaker 2: we need to overcome to enable this?
Speaker 3: And perhaps lindsay if you could give your thoughts on.
Speaker 6: This, sure, sure, And I think you just alluded to
Speaker 6: some of that as well. I think part it's really
Speaker 6: a combination of things that I think have to come
Speaker 6: together to really kind of overcome and transform how we
Speaker 6: can think about these high concentration, large volume products. I
Speaker 6: think there's definitely a formulation component to it, and what
Speaker 6: can we do with the formulation. Is there different excipients
Speaker 6: we can think about using. You know, we have those
Speaker 6: eccipients that we've traditionally seen with our products, but how
Speaker 6: can we introduce new excipients into that market to help
Speaker 6: with some of those technical challenges. Combine that with things
Speaker 6: like modeling early on with different routes of administration and
Speaker 6: doing this all from an early stage can help us,
Speaker 6: you know, understand the combination of those things in product
Speaker 6: development so we can get them to a commercial state.
Speaker 2: Super and Nick, you've got a lot of experience in
Speaker 2: consulting in this space and understanding the product development strategies
Speaker 2: around some of these types of products. What's your thoughts
Speaker 2: around what could disrupt in the future and how to
Speaker 2: overcome some of the barriers.
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Sure, And I think first I've let's talk about some barriers, right.
Speaker 5: So at Kimbox, we obviously worked with quite a few companies.
Speaker 5: I don't know the exact number, but it's probably close
Speaker 5: to one hundred and fifty various pharma and advice companies.
Speaker 5: And I think some of the common themes that I
Speaker 5: see first of all is fear of risk.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: I can't tell you in the last year how many
Speaker 5: times I've had a biologic sponsor come to us and say, Hey,
Speaker 5: we have this great new asset, we really need an
Speaker 5: injection system to use with it. We're going off the shelf.
Speaker 5: We're going as simple and as risk free as you
Speaker 5: possibly can. What can you give us, what can you
Speaker 5: help you know, what connections can you make for us?
Speaker 4: And well that's great. I mean I understand, right.
Speaker 5: The thought is we do not want to take additional
Speaker 5: risk during a complex biologic development program in order just
Speaker 5: to differentiate, because maybe the drug is supposedly the differentiator.
Speaker 4: Right, does this drug work better.
Speaker 5: Than anything else out there, Well, then you really don't
Speaker 5: need a custom autoinjector that has a different geometry than what's.
Speaker 4: Already out there, because who cares, right.
Speaker 5: The patient's more concerned about whether or not the drug works,
Speaker 5: and I think sometimes we really do forget about that.
Speaker 4: A couple of years ago, I was working.
Speaker 5: With a particular product and we did a patient research
Speaker 5: study and there was a gentleman who, in this particular.
Speaker 4: Case had all sort of collitis that he.
Speaker 5: Was asked various questions about different delivery systems and what
Speaker 5: his preferred autoinjector was, and he kind of he looked
Speaker 5: at the moderator and just responding pretty flat, lay, well,
Speaker 5: whichever one, whicheveryone delivers a drug that will stop me
Speaker 5: from having to find a bathroom every ten minutes. And
Speaker 5: I thought that was it just kind of you know,
Speaker 5: I did a double take on it as well, because
Speaker 5: he's right, But I think is the product can the
Speaker 5: product be used, Yes, does the patient care about the
Speaker 5: real little minution that maybe the engineers care about?
Speaker 4: Maybe not right? I think the second thing that I see.
Speaker 5: Quite a bit is folks trying to solve a chemical
Speaker 5: problem by mechanical means. Right, So, Hey, we have this
Speaker 5: great new biologic, we need to formulate this at two
Speaker 5: hundred meg per mill We're going to deliver five mel tenml?
Speaker 4: What can we possibly do here to deliver this product?
Speaker 5: And sometimes I think they lose sight of what exactly
Speaker 5: are you trying to accomplish. Are you trying to go
Speaker 5: to more or less frequent dosing and that's why you're
Speaker 5: trying to deliver twenty AML of a biologic or tenml
Speaker 5: or whatever it is. And if that's the case, what
Speaker 5: is that duration? Is it once a month? Is it
Speaker 5: every two months? Is it every six months? Is it
Speaker 5: once a year? Because I know there are some products
Speaker 5: that are in development or currently are on the market
Speaker 5: that are advertising once you get to a maintenance state,
Speaker 5: you're going to be delivering this product once a year.
Speaker 5: So from that perspective, even though maybe it's not the
Speaker 5: most patient centric or patient friendly option, what's against loading
Speaker 5: up ten mls into a syringe and putting it on
Speaker 5: a syringe pump and deliver that subque. They can do
Speaker 5: that in a doctor's office. It's done once per year. Yes,
Speaker 5: it's not elegant, it's not glamorous, but it works. It
Speaker 5: gets a job done, and the patient burden going to
Speaker 5: an office once per year is really not that big
Speaker 5: of a burden. So that's kind of another consideration. And
Speaker 5: I guess finally, on the innovation side, and we've been
Speaker 5: talking about this a lot at this particular conference, is
Speaker 5: of course GLP one. Everyone wants to talk about GLP one.
Speaker 5: So kind of like other things that happen in society,
Speaker 5: do you have a particular hot topic that then drives
Speaker 5: innovation in an associated space. So in this case, I
Speaker 5: don't have a crystal ball and tell you what some
Speaker 5: of the innovators in the GLP space will come up
Speaker 5: with next, but I would be shock if they did
Speaker 5: not drive innovation and new delivery technologies around a GOLP
Speaker 5: one molecule because there will be a push to differentiate
Speaker 5: in that space. Patients will need different options versus what's
Speaker 5: out there, and especially as the molecules.
Speaker 4: Themselves start to evolve and become more potent.
Speaker 5: I think you're going to see a lot of different
Speaker 5: delivery systems that are introduced based on the funding that
Speaker 5: are off the revenue of these GOLP molecules, and whether
Speaker 5: that's formulation, chemistry, whether that's just a novel inter or
Speaker 5: i'm sorry, connected delivery device. Maybe it's taking a GOLP
Speaker 5: one merging with a device that then monitors patient adherence compliance.
Speaker 5: I know we have folks that love talking about connectivity,
Speaker 5: but is connectivity of value? Well, in this case, if
Speaker 5: it's linked to an app that.
Speaker 4: Then allows for a patient.
Speaker 5: To be tracking their weight loss progress and motivates them
Speaker 5: to keep doing more and eventually weans them off a
Speaker 5: GLP one, maybe.
Speaker 4: That's a great application for that type of technology.
Speaker 5: So I think the future of all this, I think
Speaker 5: is I think it's gonna be on the back of
Speaker 5: the GLP want just because that's where the revenue is,
Speaker 5: and I think the company's doing it will want to
Speaker 5: innovate just to protect.
Speaker 4: Their market share.
Speaker 2: Absolutely great views there, Nick, and I think just to
Speaker 2: close and to wrap up, it's clear that there are
Speaker 2: some super exciting innovations in development soon to hit the market.
Speaker 2: Whilst we think we know what patients want, often patients
Speaker 2: don't actually realize what is possible.
Speaker 3: And I'd like to.
Speaker 2: Sort of, you know, ask you all to think back
Speaker 2: to Steve Jobs, right as somebody reminded me of this
Speaker 2: last night when I was at dinner gentlemen from Novnordisk,
Speaker 2: and he said, look, you know, Steve Jobs created the
Speaker 2: iPhone by putting lots of innovation together in a single device.
Speaker 2: But people at that time didn't realize that they wanted it.
Speaker 2: They didn't realize what was possible until they had it,
Speaker 2: and now people can't really do without it. And I
Speaker 2: think that's also something that we should think about when
Speaker 2: it comes to drug delivery. Often, you know, we think
Speaker 2: we know what the patient wants, or perhaps we have
Speaker 2: perspective of what is required for patient centricity, but sometimes
Speaker 2: we need to go outside the box and think what
Speaker 2: could we do to make something that you know, nobody's
Speaker 2: ever thought of before. Let's try to push the boundaries
Speaker 2: of science and innovation. And I think that's why we're
Speaker 2: all here, that's why we're all invested, is to try
Speaker 2: and make better patient, better products for patients. So let's
Speaker 2: continue to do that. Let's continue to innovate for the
Speaker 2: benefit of patients.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much.
Speaker 9: I think first of all those who are standing in
Speaker 9: the back of the room please come on forward. There's
Speaker 9: plenty of room up front. But I also first of
Speaker 9: all thank you to the panel. Maybe another round of
Speaker 9: applause for the panel, But we do have time for questions,
Speaker 9: and so i'd love for us again. You know, life
Speaker 9: is not a passive event. Please engage. Let's ask questions
Speaker 9: of the panel and step forward. There's a microphone here,
Speaker 9: but I might ask the panel maybe to respond to
Speaker 9: something when we talk about balancing between concentration and volume.
Speaker 3: The user population is.
Speaker 9: Not homogeneous, right we have we have for example, pediatrics, right,
Speaker 9: we have different user populations. I wonder if the panel
Speaker 9: can perhaps respond to their thoughts around some of those
Speaker 9: particular opportunities, and maybe we can use pediatrics as a
Speaker 9: launch point or whatever whatever you would like to share.
Speaker 7: To me at some point to understand the patient and
Speaker 7: the patient journey. Nick touch on some of the points
Speaker 7: around volume of injection and frequency of injection. Again, you know,
Speaker 7: it's ideal if you can design to the molecule, if
Speaker 7: you can add half life where they don't need you.
Speaker 3: Know, as frequent dosing.
Speaker 7: Sometimes you need different technology where you need to extend
Speaker 7: the half life. But it's really important to understand also
Speaker 7: from a sustainabilities timepoint and a reimbursement.
Speaker 3: We haven't really touched on this.
Speaker 7: These are all impotant factors and sometimes we're so focused
Speaker 7: on the device and the technical aspect. But maybe there's
Speaker 7: a different way to do it and getting to the
Speaker 7: doctor on a regular visit every three months, every six months,
Speaker 7: maybe the solution you know, doesn't need to be you know,
Speaker 7: as advanced. And for pediatrics, you know, we're not talking
Speaker 7: about self administration, so really important to understand your.
Speaker 3: Patient, the caregiver or you know, how often they have
Speaker 3: to go visit their doctors.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree, I think with considering a PDI presentation,
Speaker 6: I was in a meeting one day talking about pediatric
Speaker 6: presentations and you know, someone brought the perspective of being
Speaker 6: a parent and how often they if it's a product
Speaker 6: where they're going to have to administer their child, how
Speaker 6: often they would want to have to do that knowing
Speaker 6: that they have to hold down you know, maybe a
Speaker 6: very reluctant child to give them a dose of something
Speaker 6: that can't be that frequent, right, because that child is
Speaker 6: not going to want to do that. So, you know,
Speaker 6: it's a it's a different consideration, but it's one that
Speaker 6: definitely has to be considered when you think about something
Speaker 6: like a pediatric population.
Speaker 3: I can totally relate to that.
Speaker 2: I took I took my daughter to to India and
Speaker 2: we had to go for a travel vaccine and it
Speaker 2: was two attempts at the doctor's you know, to actually
Speaker 2: get hurt, you know, to have the have the injections.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's not not a nice situation. But I
Speaker 2: think we should consider those aspects.
Speaker 4: I've been there.
Speaker 5: It's great having to give your child a bear hug
Speaker 5: in the little clinic room at Walgreens because she needs
Speaker 5: a flu vaccine, right, but she won't hold still and
Speaker 5: they won't give it to her until she does.
Speaker 3: So pries work really well.
Speaker 2: I think there's another perspective also, you know, we think about,
Speaker 2: you know, the costs involved, right, we talked about the
Speaker 2: pay us uptake of patient centric medicines at the beginning,
Speaker 2: and but you know this, this was a good example
Speaker 2: of anxiety, right from a patient's perspective. But also you know,
Speaker 2: you think about patients perhaps are receiving oncology medicines, just
Speaker 2: having to go into that facility, having to see other
Speaker 2: patients that are suffering right around them. That you can't
Speaker 2: really appreciate that unless you've been there and and and
Speaker 2: seeing the the the the anxiety that a patient might
Speaker 2: experience in that situation. If you can make those visits
Speaker 2: less frequent, if you can do more self administration at home,
Speaker 2: I think that's that's a huge, huge value that people
Speaker 2: people perhaps don't even perceive.
Speaker 8: Well between the product for pediatric and for patients for
Speaker 8: adult patients, actually we may think they belong to the
Speaker 8: same product family, but actually these are two totally different products.
Speaker 8: We have to trade them, these two things, you know,
Speaker 8: in different ways. So in termal for like you know,
Speaker 8: for basically those those those it's totally different, and user
Speaker 8: population can be a different, use condition can be different,
Speaker 8: so this may require a different device configuration to enable
Speaker 8: to accomplish all these two coveries to populations.
Speaker 2: Just like to thank the panelists here and and yourselves
Speaker 2: for a great discussion.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
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