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<v Speaker 1>Old you is, folks.

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<v Speaker 2>It's show tied.

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<v Speaker 3>People say, good money to see this movie.

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<v Speaker 4>When they go out to a theater, they want clod sodas,

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<v Speaker 4>hot popcorn, and no monsters.

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<v Speaker 3>In the Protection Booth.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.

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<v Speaker 4>Cut it off.

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<v Speaker 3>It's scary to watch someone you love confront failures. Jeah,

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<v Speaker 3>fear of going insane. It's what it was really like.

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<v Speaker 3>It's crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>I was making it on the crest of the acclaim

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<v Speaker 1>of the Godfather films.

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<v Speaker 3>Every day, one hundred problems. But I don't know what

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<v Speaker 3>I'm doing. I said, who is this?

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<v Speaker 1>Willard?

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<v Speaker 3>And Francis look me square in the eye and he said,

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<v Speaker 3>he's you. Brandon agreed to the million dollars a week.

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<v Speaker 3>Are they seriously saying that Marlon would not show up?

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<v Speaker 3>It was like you want to dream. I was not

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<v Speaker 3>in the greatest of the shape. Just do what I am.

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<v Speaker 3>Marty's had a heart attack. I already had him post

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<v Speaker 3>called the film is not about Vietnam.

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<v Speaker 5>It is Vietnam.

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<v Speaker 3>Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of The Projection Booth.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm your host Mike White. On this episode, it's the

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<v Speaker 3>return of Facts Bear. He is the director of the

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<v Speaker 3>documentary Hearts of Darkness, the film all about the making

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<v Speaker 3>of Apocalypse Now. Also on this episode, I'm talking with

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<v Speaker 3>James McCosky. I inter the two of them together as

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<v Speaker 3>there is a new restoration of Hearts of Darkness that

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<v Speaker 3>is now touring around. Hearts of Darkness is one of

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<v Speaker 3>the best films about the making of a film around.

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<v Speaker 3>I talk with Facts way back when when we discussed

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<v Speaker 3>Apocalypse Now as a specific episode, talk to me a

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<v Speaker 3>little bit more about the making of the film, and

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<v Speaker 3>mister mccoskey talked to me a little bit more about

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<v Speaker 3>the restoration, and I'm hoping he might come on the

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<v Speaker 3>show later on this year when we talk about Megalopolis.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much for listening. Hope you enjoy the episode.

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<v Speaker 3>James and Facts, It's great to talk with you guys. Facts.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm super excited to talk with you again and we're

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<v Speaker 3>talking about kind of the same subject we discussed last

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<v Speaker 3>time in a new light, which is Hearts of Darkness.

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<v Speaker 3>Can you tell me Facts a little bit about how

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<v Speaker 3>this project originally came to be Sure.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I was working with a behind the scenes electronic

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<v Speaker 6>press kit company and George Zuloum, who was running the company,

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<v Speaker 6>had just read Ellie Coppola's notes and he said, she

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<v Speaker 6>talks about this all this documentary footage. Have you ever

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<v Speaker 6>heard of a film being made about the making of Apocalypse?

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<v Speaker 2>I said no, and he goes, I'm gonna call zoa troupe.

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<v Speaker 6>So he did, and they were more than happy to

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<v Speaker 6>talk to us about looking at the footage and making

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<v Speaker 6>a film out of it.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's how it was born.

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<v Speaker 3>And then James, give me a little bit of your

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<v Speaker 3>background from why I understand you've been working with the

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<v Speaker 3>Copola camp since the seventies.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh god, note and I'll go back that far. You

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<v Speaker 5>just did that to make a joke, didn't you.

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<v Speaker 1>Now.

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<v Speaker 5>I started with Zoetrup around two thousand and one, two

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<v Speaker 5>thousand and two, just right after Francis recut Apocalypse now Reducts,

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<v Speaker 5>so he became very familiar with all the assets of that,

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<v Speaker 5>what it took to remake or recut Apocalypse. So it

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<v Speaker 5>was about ten years after Fax's endeavor with Eleanor and

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<v Speaker 5>George Ingenlooper on Hearts of Darkness.

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<v Speaker 3>Your fromography looks crazy on IMDb because you help restore

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<v Speaker 3>these films. So it looks like you've been working since

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen twenty six with the Jones.

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<v Speaker 1>Kis exactly right. Yes, I go back to the silent era.

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<v Speaker 3>It's funny you don't look a day over twenty five.

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<v Speaker 3>He's a vampire. So tell me a little bit about

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<v Speaker 3>the restoration process with this, because I mean I saw

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<v Speaker 3>this originally in the theater when it first came out,

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<v Speaker 3>and then I think the last time I saw it

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<v Speaker 3>was on DHS.

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<v Speaker 5>Maybe Eleanor passed away about a year ago, and she

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<v Speaker 5>knew she was sick. We had gone through her collection

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<v Speaker 5>of titles that she had worked on over the years

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<v Speaker 5>from the seventies. We were working on her collection as

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<v Speaker 5>she was ill, and it was very important for her

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<v Speaker 5>to go through her entire life and go through all

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<v Speaker 5>our films and make sure that they were all in

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<v Speaker 5>good shape. I'd say that it was a good time

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<v Speaker 5>to go with hearts and targans with her. She unfortunately

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<v Speaker 5>she passed before she saw the restoration, but she knew

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<v Speaker 5>that it was being restored at that time.

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<v Speaker 3>What were some of the challenges or spurring this film.

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<v Speaker 1>It's always about finding the assets.

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<v Speaker 5>All the sixteen milimeter was jumbled boxes, mislabeled thirty years ago,

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<v Speaker 5>and it's just sort of climbing back or trying to

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<v Speaker 5>be the detective of finding where everything was put thirty

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<v Speaker 5>or so years ago. And that's the story about every

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<v Speaker 5>single film that gets packed out. At the end of

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<v Speaker 5>the show, you know, you'll open up a box and

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<v Speaker 5>you'll see why did someone keep sixty two grease pencils

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<v Speaker 5>that were paying our white gloves?

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 5>But it's just like that mad dash of packing up

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<v Speaker 5>a show at the end, having the discussion with facts

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<v Speaker 5>about it was originally a stereo mix and maybe we

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<v Speaker 5>should do a five to one, should be upgraded, it's appropriate.

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<v Speaker 5>What about when we go to the Apocalypse now clips.

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<v Speaker 5>You were back in the day when they did this documentary,

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<v Speaker 5>everybody had a square television.

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<v Speaker 1>It was four x three.

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<v Speaker 5>So when they did the two three five Apocalypse now

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<v Speaker 5>aspect ratio, they had a letter box it. So this

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<v Speaker 5>big film got so tiny in the story, and so

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<v Speaker 5>we thought it would be great for the presentation. It

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<v Speaker 5>is like the breakout of that box. Still the interviews

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<v Speaker 5>and the footage Eleanor shot are still they were shot

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<v Speaker 5>four x three at that time. But Apocalypse at least

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<v Speaker 5>we break out of that four x three broocks and

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<v Speaker 5>go to the original aspect ratio, so at least has

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<v Speaker 5>that impact.

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<v Speaker 3>And I always love that.

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<v Speaker 6>I mean, it's history, right, It's a living history, and

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<v Speaker 6>this is the way the format was and you see it,

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<v Speaker 6>you know it change and I always feel a fine

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<v Speaker 6>that really locks the story into the time it was made.

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<v Speaker 3>So I'm a fan of that.

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<v Speaker 2>I know a lot of people are distracted by it,

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<v Speaker 2>but I love it.

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<v Speaker 3>Beck's how is it going back to this material after

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<v Speaker 3>all these years? I mean, obviously we talked about this

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<v Speaker 3>quite a few years ago. To make such a big

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<v Speaker 3>splash of one of your early projects, do you feel

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<v Speaker 3>haunted or are you proud of this?

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<v Speaker 6>Not haunted at all?

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<v Speaker 2>And know what's fabulous about her?

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<v Speaker 6>Just really what James was able to do with that footage,

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<v Speaker 6>because it is I don't think we really I don't

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<v Speaker 6>think there was a lot of attention paid to coloring

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<v Speaker 6>the first film when it came out. I think just

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<v Speaker 6>hurried it out there and it looks fine. You know,

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<v Speaker 6>it's sort of flat, but really it's a beautiful restoration

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<v Speaker 6>the whole new experience. I mean, they really nailed really

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<v Speaker 6>got into dug into the US. The inner negative is that, right, James.

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<v Speaker 5>It was the original sixteen elimeter footage that she shot

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<v Speaker 5>and then the stuff that you shot on either sixteen

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<v Speaker 5>we went back six two, so it was all original

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<v Speaker 5>and negative.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's gorgeous. I mean, it's really it's a new experience.

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<v Speaker 5>The thing with Eleanor and we talked We've talked about

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<v Speaker 5>this a few times, Fax and I is what it

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<v Speaker 5>took Ellie to do and achieve back in the seventies,

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<v Speaker 5>being a woman on our own put this film together,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, And it wasn't really put together. It was

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<v Speaker 5>sort of put in the closet after Apocalypse now wrapped,

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<v Speaker 5>and it was not till facts credit and Less Mayfield

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<v Speaker 5>and George Zloom who unearthed all this, wanted to uncover

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<v Speaker 5>this story that was just sort of forgotten about. And

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<v Speaker 5>it's interesting because being in the trenches of Apocalypse, it

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<v Speaker 5>was so raw in that moment, it was so such

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<v Speaker 5>a difficult experience for the family. Shooting it was sort

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<v Speaker 5>of Francis's first bankruptcy and then going from Apocalypse from

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<v Speaker 5>the Philippines into Hollywood to go into his studio Zoetrope

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<v Speaker 5>Studios and producing one from the Heart, which was another

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<v Speaker 5>our difficulties. So I could see and it was great.

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<v Speaker 5>The timing of this documentary worked so well because it

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<v Speaker 5>needed ten years to just sort of sit and coalesce

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<v Speaker 5>and not be so raw and freshened people's memory, just

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<v Speaker 5>let it percolate for a little while, and so I

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<v Speaker 5>think it came out a very good time.

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<v Speaker 3>Was there any discussion of possibly recutting this while you

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<v Speaker 3>had the opportunity.

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<v Speaker 5>No, Facts never expressed that, thankfully. I think as perfect

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<v Speaker 5>as it is, it's what it is interesting because Francis

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<v Speaker 5>always has a list of the things that he wants

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<v Speaker 5>to do or go back or didn't feel like he

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<v Speaker 5>had enough to say on things. Well, one, this wasn't

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<v Speaker 5>his film, and he's always very respectful of that. But

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<v Speaker 5>here for his films, you know, he'll go, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 5>I wish I did this with The Godfather. I wish

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<v Speaker 5>I did this with Apocalypse. But then he'll say, I

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<v Speaker 5>won't touch the conversation. It was perfect.

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<v Speaker 3>He's that wrong.

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<v Speaker 5>There's things that he can let go and there's other

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<v Speaker 5>things that he feels like, No, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Wish I could push it a little bit. Now.

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<v Speaker 3>I was curious Facts if there was footage that you

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<v Speaker 3>had wanted to use maybe and couldn't figure out how

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<v Speaker 3>to put it in there.

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<v Speaker 6>My first cut was four and a half hours, maybe

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<v Speaker 6>even longer. I mean there was a ton, honest well,

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<v Speaker 6>Ellie covered everything from pre production through post production. There

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<v Speaker 6>were some wonderful scenes Michael Hare and Marty Sheen recording

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<v Speaker 6>the incredible voiceover down in the basement of the zoetrop

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<v Speaker 6>recording studio. Yeah, there were a lot of darlings we

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<v Speaker 6>had to kill, but to get it down to the

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<v Speaker 6>ninety minutes that it is.

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<v Speaker 5>It leads at a very good spot where the premiere

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<v Speaker 5>in Westwood, but it goes in another journey after can

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<v Speaker 5>It does go into another post production sort of quagmire

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<v Speaker 5>that never really gets explained.

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<v Speaker 1>But post production is not sexy for the nerds.

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<v Speaker 5>It's for us, but it's really on set stuff and

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<v Speaker 5>I think facts really they shaped it in.

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<v Speaker 1>A very perfect way so and then set a perfect note.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no, I could totally nerd out on that. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm one of the guys who tracked down the old

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<v Speaker 3>VHS tapes of the work print of Apocalypse and just yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I got as much of this movie as I possibly

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<v Speaker 3>can see so when your documentary came out, it was

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<v Speaker 3>just such a revelation. And then I love the approach

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<v Speaker 3>that you took to it to really give you that

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<v Speaker 3>sense of history as far as how long people have

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<v Speaker 3>been talking about doing an adaptation of it, and that

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<v Speaker 3>footage with Wells, I thought that was wonderful and such

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<v Speaker 3>a great kind of springboard into here's this maverick who

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<v Speaker 3>is trying to create this project. Let's see how another maverick,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, thirty forty years later tried his approach.

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<v Speaker 6>Of course, I think Wells and Francis have a lot

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<v Speaker 6>in common in a certain way in terms of their

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<v Speaker 6>relationship with the powers that be in Hollywood, and they

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<v Speaker 6>both manage to make great art in the faces system

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<v Speaker 6>that's not really that interested in it.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, to tie the two.

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<v Speaker 6>Together was I think it was just meant to be.

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<v Speaker 6>They stand on the same stage.

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<v Speaker 5>In my opinion, it is interesting that Francis stumbles into

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<v Speaker 5>these situations where Hollywood doesn't want it. They didn't want

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<v Speaker 5>Apocalypse Now, but they've grown and appreciate it and becomes

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<v Speaker 5>its classic. But over the years, it's no different than

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<v Speaker 5>what he's trying to do with the Megalopolis Polly doesn't

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<v Speaker 5>want this, but I'm doing it for me. These are

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<v Speaker 5>the stories that he's passionate about, and same with one

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<v Speaker 5>from the heart.

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<v Speaker 4>Or what.

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<v Speaker 5>It's These are stories that are personal to him, passionate about.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, if it's a great success, great and

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<v Speaker 1>if not, maybe in time.

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<v Speaker 5>It took twenty thirty years for Apocalypse Now to really

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<v Speaker 5>get out of the hole bankruptcy that it was in

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<v Speaker 5>to be appreciated. So he says, you know, art may

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<v Speaker 5>not be appreciated in this exact moment, but maybe an

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<v Speaker 5>audience will come around twenty thirty years and find it

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<v Speaker 5>in a new light.

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<v Speaker 1>He's making his own on his own terms.

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<v Speaker 3>So is this just kind of the timeless right to

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<v Speaker 3>finally do this thirty four years later after Hearts came out?

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<v Speaker 5>Well, yeah, I was probably looking at my library and

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<v Speaker 5>we've done all the titles and like, well we're at

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<v Speaker 5>the bottom here, let's get Bart said target dig if it. Yes,

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<v Speaker 5>that just felt right. You know, there's no real anniversary

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<v Speaker 5>to it or any it just it was just time

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<v Speaker 5>to do it.

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<v Speaker 3>So what is the plan to roll this out? Are

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<v Speaker 3>we seeing this theatrically? Is there going to be a

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<v Speaker 3>blue ray release next year.

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<v Speaker 5>It was released the last Friday, July fourth, at rial

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<v Speaker 5>to the Film Forum, and now it's starting to get

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<v Speaker 5>bookings around the country, so people can go to rialto

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<v Speaker 5>dot com and start booking it, call your local theater

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<v Speaker 5>and demand you got a lot of people have been

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<v Speaker 5>booking it along with Apocalypse Now. We always caution bookers

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<v Speaker 5>or the theaters because they want to book Apocalypse Now

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<v Speaker 5>and Hearts of Darkness together on the same day, and

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<v Speaker 5>Francis doesn't really ever like that, and it sort of

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<v Speaker 5>takes away from the experience of the film itself. You

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<v Speaker 5>watch Arts of Darkness and then you're imagining, oh, this

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<v Speaker 5>is where Francis was crazy in this moment. It's like,

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<v Speaker 5>I just want you to experience the film without all

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<v Speaker 5>knowing what was going on set. So he loves a

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<v Speaker 5>little distance between the two becks.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you get to go to any of those opening

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<v Speaker 3>these screenings?

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<v Speaker 6>No, I did not go to New York at a

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<v Speaker 6>premiered at the Film Form of New York last week,

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<v Speaker 6>but I will be at the Lost Fuleast three in

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<v Speaker 6>Los Angeles July twentieth doing a Q and A and

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<v Speaker 6>it's screening of the twentieth twenty third and twenty fourth.

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<v Speaker 2>And doing a Q and A the twentieth and the

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<v Speaker 2>twenty fourth.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm really excited to hear how that goes. To be

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<v Speaker 3>able to see this film with an audience again after

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<v Speaker 3>all these years has to be pretty incredible.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the way it's meant to be seen.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm really hoping that it comes to Detroit because I

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<v Speaker 3>would love to see this on the big screen again

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<v Speaker 3>and then have that experience of breaking out of that frame,

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<v Speaker 3>because it's got to be spectacular.

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<v Speaker 5>It's different from the original presentation, but we're originally you know,

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<v Speaker 5>whatever people have been seeing or hearing of Hearts of Darkness.

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<v Speaker 5>Two songs were cut out in our last interview. People

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<v Speaker 5>astute enough to know that, oh will it have anything

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<v Speaker 5>goes or the Susie Hughes back in because they were

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<v Speaker 5>cut out because of licensing issues. Well they were expensive time,

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<v Speaker 5>but we finally sorted that out. Now we have gone

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<v Speaker 5>back to that original soundtrack that Vacts in his team

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<v Speaker 5>provided back in the nineties, the original aspect ratio making

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<v Speaker 5>the impact. I think having Apocalypse sound as it was

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<v Speaker 5>originally mixed to is an important aspect of the presentation and.

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<v Speaker 3>If memory serves. You worked on the restoration of that

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<v Speaker 3>as well.

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<v Speaker 1>For all three versions.

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<v Speaker 5>Yes, I don't go back to the red I just

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<v Speaker 5>got onto the reducts, but subsequently restored all three Since.

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<v Speaker 3>Then, Bex, what are you working on these days other

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<v Speaker 3>than this restoration?

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<v Speaker 6>I just picture lot to documentary feature documentary. It's a

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<v Speaker 6>portrait of an environmental activist done on the Texas Gulf coast.

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<v Speaker 6>She's a shrimp boat captain and she fought and won

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<v Speaker 6>the largest clean water ect lawsuit against microplastics manufacturer who's

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<v Speaker 6>egregiously polluting the bays their family had fished for four generations.

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<v Speaker 6>So it's a David versus Goliath story, not unlike actually

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<v Speaker 6>Francis's journey with a problems. They're like going up the

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<v Speaker 6>Sissifian with out the words Spifian effort of win to

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<v Speaker 6>bring this this whatever effort she had, you know, up

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<v Speaker 6>the hill and over for the wind.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, so I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>Excited about that. I think it's I think it's a

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<v Speaker 2>good film, and it's she's an amazing character.

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<v Speaker 3>That's fantastic. Yeah, I can never know what you're working

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<v Speaker 3>on because you moved between genres so fluidly, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>it's like, oh, the guy who worked with poly Schor

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<v Speaker 3>all these times, said Jamie Kennedy also makes these incredible

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<v Speaker 3>documentaries too.

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<v Speaker 1>It's adhd okay, there you go.

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<v Speaker 3>And then James, are you working on the the Mega doc.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm super excited for this.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Mega doc.

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<v Speaker 5>We'll see them light a day and we probably should

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<v Speaker 5>hear news in the next couple months.

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<v Speaker 3>Gentlemen, I am so excited to have talked with you

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<v Speaker 3>today about this, and I'm really hoping that more people

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<v Speaker 3>get to see Hearts of Darkness again on the big screen.

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<v Speaker 3>I caught myself as very lucky way back in nineteen

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<v Speaker 3>ninety one to be able to have seen this, so

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<v Speaker 3>now more eyes on it all these years later in

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<v Speaker 3>this restored version. Super excited for it.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank thanks, Mike, appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 4>This stall step of sa seep step came so to

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<v Speaker 4>the south the sun strange sp insistency becassistants to chop

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<v Speaker 4>to fout sixty sis