Speaker 1: Old you is, folks.
Speaker 2: It's show tied.
Speaker 3: People say, good money to see this movie.
Speaker 4: When they go out to a theater, they want clod sodas,
Speaker 4: hot popcorn, and no monsters.
Speaker 3: In the Protection Booth.
Speaker 1: Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 4: Cut it off.
Speaker 3: It's scary to watch someone you love confront failures. Jeah,
Speaker 3: fear of going insane. It's what it was really like.
Speaker 3: It's crazy.
Speaker 1: I was making it on the crest of the acclaim
Speaker 1: of the Godfather films.
Speaker 3: Every day, one hundred problems. But I don't know what
Speaker 3: I'm doing. I said, who is this?
Speaker 1: Willard?
Speaker 3: And Francis look me square in the eye and he said,
Speaker 3: he's you. Brandon agreed to the million dollars a week.
Speaker 3: Are they seriously saying that Marlon would not show up?
Speaker 3: It was like you want to dream. I was not
Speaker 3: in the greatest of the shape. Just do what I am.
Speaker 3: Marty's had a heart attack. I already had him post
Speaker 3: called the film is not about Vietnam.
Speaker 5: It is Vietnam.
Speaker 3: Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of The Projection Booth.
Speaker 3: I'm your host Mike White. On this episode, it's the
Speaker 3: return of Facts Bear. He is the director of the
Speaker 3: documentary Hearts of Darkness, the film all about the making
Speaker 3: of Apocalypse Now. Also on this episode, I'm talking with
Speaker 3: James McCosky. I inter the two of them together as
Speaker 3: there is a new restoration of Hearts of Darkness that
Speaker 3: is now touring around. Hearts of Darkness is one of
Speaker 3: the best films about the making of a film around.
Speaker 3: I talk with Facts way back when when we discussed
Speaker 3: Apocalypse Now as a specific episode, talk to me a
Speaker 3: little bit more about the making of the film, and
Speaker 3: mister mccoskey talked to me a little bit more about
Speaker 3: the restoration, and I'm hoping he might come on the
Speaker 3: show later on this year when we talk about Megalopolis.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening. Hope you enjoy the episode.
Speaker 3: James and Facts, It's great to talk with you guys. Facts.
Speaker 3: I'm super excited to talk with you again and we're
Speaker 3: talking about kind of the same subject we discussed last
Speaker 3: time in a new light, which is Hearts of Darkness.
Speaker 3: Can you tell me Facts a little bit about how
Speaker 3: this project originally came to be Sure.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I was working with a behind the scenes electronic
Speaker 6: press kit company and George Zuloum, who was running the company,
Speaker 6: had just read Ellie Coppola's notes and he said, she
Speaker 6: talks about this all this documentary footage. Have you ever
Speaker 6: heard of a film being made about the making of Apocalypse?
Speaker 2: I said no, and he goes, I'm gonna call zoa troupe.
Speaker 6: So he did, and they were more than happy to
Speaker 6: talk to us about looking at the footage and making
Speaker 6: a film out of it.
Speaker 2: So that's how it was born.
Speaker 3: And then James, give me a little bit of your
Speaker 3: background from why I understand you've been working with the
Speaker 3: Copola camp since the seventies.
Speaker 5: Oh god, note and I'll go back that far. You
Speaker 5: just did that to make a joke, didn't you.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 5: I started with Zoetrup around two thousand and one, two
Speaker 5: thousand and two, just right after Francis recut Apocalypse now Reducts,
Speaker 5: so he became very familiar with all the assets of that,
Speaker 5: what it took to remake or recut Apocalypse. So it
Speaker 5: was about ten years after Fax's endeavor with Eleanor and
Speaker 5: George Ingenlooper on Hearts of Darkness.
Speaker 3: Your fromography looks crazy on IMDb because you help restore
Speaker 3: these films. So it looks like you've been working since
Speaker 3: nineteen twenty six with the Jones.
Speaker 1: Kis exactly right. Yes, I go back to the silent era.
Speaker 3: It's funny you don't look a day over twenty five.
Speaker 3: He's a vampire. So tell me a little bit about
Speaker 3: the restoration process with this, because I mean I saw
Speaker 3: this originally in the theater when it first came out,
Speaker 3: and then I think the last time I saw it
Speaker 3: was on DHS.
Speaker 5: Maybe Eleanor passed away about a year ago, and she
Speaker 5: knew she was sick. We had gone through her collection
Speaker 5: of titles that she had worked on over the years
Speaker 5: from the seventies. We were working on her collection as
Speaker 5: she was ill, and it was very important for her
Speaker 5: to go through her entire life and go through all
Speaker 5: our films and make sure that they were all in
Speaker 5: good shape. I'd say that it was a good time
Speaker 5: to go with hearts and targans with her. She unfortunately
Speaker 5: she passed before she saw the restoration, but she knew
Speaker 5: that it was being restored at that time.
Speaker 3: What were some of the challenges or spurring this film.
Speaker 1: It's always about finding the assets.
Speaker 5: All the sixteen milimeter was jumbled boxes, mislabeled thirty years ago,
Speaker 5: and it's just sort of climbing back or trying to
Speaker 5: be the detective of finding where everything was put thirty
Speaker 5: or so years ago. And that's the story about every
Speaker 5: single film that gets packed out. At the end of
Speaker 5: the show, you know, you'll open up a box and
Speaker 5: you'll see why did someone keep sixty two grease pencils
Speaker 5: that were paying our white gloves?
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: But it's just like that mad dash of packing up
Speaker 5: a show at the end, having the discussion with facts
Speaker 5: about it was originally a stereo mix and maybe we
Speaker 5: should do a five to one, should be upgraded, it's appropriate.
Speaker 5: What about when we go to the Apocalypse now clips.
Speaker 5: You were back in the day when they did this documentary,
Speaker 5: everybody had a square television.
Speaker 1: It was four x three.
Speaker 5: So when they did the two three five Apocalypse now
Speaker 5: aspect ratio, they had a letter box it. So this
Speaker 5: big film got so tiny in the story, and so
Speaker 5: we thought it would be great for the presentation. It
Speaker 5: is like the breakout of that box. Still the interviews
Speaker 5: and the footage Eleanor shot are still they were shot
Speaker 5: four x three at that time. But Apocalypse at least
Speaker 5: we break out of that four x three broocks and
Speaker 5: go to the original aspect ratio, so at least has
Speaker 5: that impact.
Speaker 3: And I always love that.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's history, right, It's a living history, and
Speaker 6: this is the way the format was and you see it,
Speaker 6: you know it change and I always feel a fine
Speaker 6: that really locks the story into the time it was made.
Speaker 3: So I'm a fan of that.
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people are distracted by it,
Speaker 2: but I love it.
Speaker 3: Beck's how is it going back to this material after
Speaker 3: all these years? I mean, obviously we talked about this
Speaker 3: quite a few years ago. To make such a big
Speaker 3: splash of one of your early projects, do you feel
Speaker 3: haunted or are you proud of this?
Speaker 6: Not haunted at all?
Speaker 2: And know what's fabulous about her?
Speaker 6: Just really what James was able to do with that footage,
Speaker 6: because it is I don't think we really I don't
Speaker 6: think there was a lot of attention paid to coloring
Speaker 6: the first film when it came out. I think just
Speaker 6: hurried it out there and it looks fine. You know,
Speaker 6: it's sort of flat, but really it's a beautiful restoration
Speaker 6: the whole new experience. I mean, they really nailed really
Speaker 6: got into dug into the US. The inner negative is that, right, James.
Speaker 5: It was the original sixteen elimeter footage that she shot
Speaker 5: and then the stuff that you shot on either sixteen
Speaker 5: we went back six two, so it was all original
Speaker 5: and negative.
Speaker 2: So it's gorgeous. I mean, it's really it's a new experience.
Speaker 5: The thing with Eleanor and we talked We've talked about
Speaker 5: this a few times, Fax and I is what it
Speaker 5: took Ellie to do and achieve back in the seventies,
Speaker 5: being a woman on our own put this film together,
Speaker 5: you know, And it wasn't really put together. It was
Speaker 5: sort of put in the closet after Apocalypse now wrapped,
Speaker 5: and it was not till facts credit and Less Mayfield
Speaker 5: and George Zloom who unearthed all this, wanted to uncover
Speaker 5: this story that was just sort of forgotten about. And
Speaker 5: it's interesting because being in the trenches of Apocalypse, it
Speaker 5: was so raw in that moment, it was so such
Speaker 5: a difficult experience for the family. Shooting it was sort
Speaker 5: of Francis's first bankruptcy and then going from Apocalypse from
Speaker 5: the Philippines into Hollywood to go into his studio Zoetrope
Speaker 5: Studios and producing one from the Heart, which was another
Speaker 5: our difficulties. So I could see and it was great.
Speaker 5: The timing of this documentary worked so well because it
Speaker 5: needed ten years to just sort of sit and coalesce
Speaker 5: and not be so raw and freshened people's memory, just
Speaker 5: let it percolate for a little while, and so I
Speaker 5: think it came out a very good time.
Speaker 3: Was there any discussion of possibly recutting this while you
Speaker 3: had the opportunity.
Speaker 5: No, Facts never expressed that, thankfully. I think as perfect
Speaker 5: as it is, it's what it is interesting because Francis
Speaker 5: always has a list of the things that he wants
Speaker 5: to do or go back or didn't feel like he
Speaker 5: had enough to say on things. Well, one, this wasn't
Speaker 5: his film, and he's always very respectful of that. But
Speaker 5: here for his films, you know, he'll go, oh, well,
Speaker 5: I wish I did this with The Godfather. I wish
Speaker 5: I did this with Apocalypse. But then he'll say, I
Speaker 5: won't touch the conversation. It was perfect.
Speaker 3: He's that wrong.
Speaker 5: There's things that he can let go and there's other
Speaker 5: things that he feels like, No, I.
Speaker 1: Wish I could push it a little bit. Now.
Speaker 3: I was curious Facts if there was footage that you
Speaker 3: had wanted to use maybe and couldn't figure out how
Speaker 3: to put it in there.
Speaker 6: My first cut was four and a half hours, maybe
Speaker 6: even longer. I mean there was a ton, honest well,
Speaker 6: Ellie covered everything from pre production through post production. There
Speaker 6: were some wonderful scenes Michael Hare and Marty Sheen recording
Speaker 6: the incredible voiceover down in the basement of the zoetrop
Speaker 6: recording studio. Yeah, there were a lot of darlings we
Speaker 6: had to kill, but to get it down to the
Speaker 6: ninety minutes that it is.
Speaker 5: It leads at a very good spot where the premiere
Speaker 5: in Westwood, but it goes in another journey after can
Speaker 5: It does go into another post production sort of quagmire
Speaker 5: that never really gets explained.
Speaker 1: But post production is not sexy for the nerds.
Speaker 5: It's for us, but it's really on set stuff and
Speaker 5: I think facts really they shaped it in.
Speaker 1: A very perfect way so and then set a perfect note.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I could totally nerd out on that. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm one of the guys who tracked down the old
Speaker 3: VHS tapes of the work print of Apocalypse and just yeah,
Speaker 3: I got as much of this movie as I possibly
Speaker 3: can see so when your documentary came out, it was
Speaker 3: just such a revelation. And then I love the approach
Speaker 3: that you took to it to really give you that
Speaker 3: sense of history as far as how long people have
Speaker 3: been talking about doing an adaptation of it, and that
Speaker 3: footage with Wells, I thought that was wonderful and such
Speaker 3: a great kind of springboard into here's this maverick who
Speaker 3: is trying to create this project. Let's see how another maverick,
Speaker 3: you know, thirty forty years later tried his approach.
Speaker 6: Of course, I think Wells and Francis have a lot
Speaker 6: in common in a certain way in terms of their
Speaker 6: relationship with the powers that be in Hollywood, and they
Speaker 6: both manage to make great art in the faces system
Speaker 6: that's not really that interested in it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, to tie the two.
Speaker 6: Together was I think it was just meant to be.
Speaker 6: They stand on the same stage.
Speaker 5: In my opinion, it is interesting that Francis stumbles into
Speaker 5: these situations where Hollywood doesn't want it. They didn't want
Speaker 5: Apocalypse Now, but they've grown and appreciate it and becomes
Speaker 5: its classic. But over the years, it's no different than
Speaker 5: what he's trying to do with the Megalopolis Polly doesn't
Speaker 5: want this, but I'm doing it for me. These are
Speaker 5: the stories that he's passionate about, and same with one
Speaker 5: from the heart.
Speaker 4: Or what.
Speaker 5: It's These are stories that are personal to him, passionate about.
Speaker 1: And you know, if it's a great success, great and
Speaker 1: if not, maybe in time.
Speaker 5: It took twenty thirty years for Apocalypse Now to really
Speaker 5: get out of the hole bankruptcy that it was in
Speaker 5: to be appreciated. So he says, you know, art may
Speaker 5: not be appreciated in this exact moment, but maybe an
Speaker 5: audience will come around twenty thirty years and find it
Speaker 5: in a new light.
Speaker 1: He's making his own on his own terms.
Speaker 3: So is this just kind of the timeless right to
Speaker 3: finally do this thirty four years later after Hearts came out?
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I was probably looking at my library and
Speaker 5: we've done all the titles and like, well we're at
Speaker 5: the bottom here, let's get Bart said target dig if it. Yes,
Speaker 5: that just felt right. You know, there's no real anniversary
Speaker 5: to it or any it just it was just time
Speaker 5: to do it.
Speaker 3: So what is the plan to roll this out? Are
Speaker 3: we seeing this theatrically? Is there going to be a
Speaker 3: blue ray release next year.
Speaker 5: It was released the last Friday, July fourth, at rial
Speaker 5: to the Film Forum, and now it's starting to get
Speaker 5: bookings around the country, so people can go to rialto
Speaker 5: dot com and start booking it, call your local theater
Speaker 5: and demand you got a lot of people have been
Speaker 5: booking it along with Apocalypse Now. We always caution bookers
Speaker 5: or the theaters because they want to book Apocalypse Now
Speaker 5: and Hearts of Darkness together on the same day, and
Speaker 5: Francis doesn't really ever like that, and it sort of
Speaker 5: takes away from the experience of the film itself. You
Speaker 5: watch Arts of Darkness and then you're imagining, oh, this
Speaker 5: is where Francis was crazy in this moment. It's like,
Speaker 5: I just want you to experience the film without all
Speaker 5: knowing what was going on set. So he loves a
Speaker 5: little distance between the two becks.
Speaker 3: Did you get to go to any of those opening
Speaker 3: these screenings?
Speaker 6: No, I did not go to New York at a
Speaker 6: premiered at the Film Form of New York last week,
Speaker 6: but I will be at the Lost Fuleast three in
Speaker 6: Los Angeles July twentieth doing a Q and A and
Speaker 6: it's screening of the twentieth twenty third and twenty fourth.
Speaker 2: And doing a Q and A the twentieth and the
Speaker 2: twenty fourth.
Speaker 3: I'm really excited to hear how that goes. To be
Speaker 3: able to see this film with an audience again after
Speaker 3: all these years has to be pretty incredible.
Speaker 2: It's the way it's meant to be seen.
Speaker 3: I'm really hoping that it comes to Detroit because I
Speaker 3: would love to see this on the big screen again
Speaker 3: and then have that experience of breaking out of that frame,
Speaker 3: because it's got to be spectacular.
Speaker 5: It's different from the original presentation, but we're originally you know,
Speaker 5: whatever people have been seeing or hearing of Hearts of Darkness.
Speaker 5: Two songs were cut out in our last interview. People
Speaker 5: astute enough to know that, oh will it have anything
Speaker 5: goes or the Susie Hughes back in because they were
Speaker 5: cut out because of licensing issues. Well they were expensive time,
Speaker 5: but we finally sorted that out. Now we have gone
Speaker 5: back to that original soundtrack that Vacts in his team
Speaker 5: provided back in the nineties, the original aspect ratio making
Speaker 5: the impact. I think having Apocalypse sound as it was
Speaker 5: originally mixed to is an important aspect of the presentation and.
Speaker 3: If memory serves. You worked on the restoration of that
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 1: For all three versions.
Speaker 5: Yes, I don't go back to the red I just
Speaker 5: got onto the reducts, but subsequently restored all three Since.
Speaker 3: Then, Bex, what are you working on these days other
Speaker 3: than this restoration?
Speaker 6: I just picture lot to documentary feature documentary. It's a
Speaker 6: portrait of an environmental activist done on the Texas Gulf coast.
Speaker 6: She's a shrimp boat captain and she fought and won
Speaker 6: the largest clean water ect lawsuit against microplastics manufacturer who's
Speaker 6: egregiously polluting the bays their family had fished for four generations.
Speaker 6: So it's a David versus Goliath story, not unlike actually
Speaker 6: Francis's journey with a problems. They're like going up the
Speaker 6: Sissifian with out the words Spifian effort of win to
Speaker 6: bring this this whatever effort she had, you know, up
Speaker 6: the hill and over for the wind.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so I'm.
Speaker 2: Excited about that. I think it's I think it's a
Speaker 2: good film, and it's she's an amazing character.
Speaker 3: That's fantastic. Yeah, I can never know what you're working
Speaker 3: on because you moved between genres so fluidly, you know,
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, the guy who worked with poly Schor
Speaker 3: all these times, said Jamie Kennedy also makes these incredible
Speaker 3: documentaries too.
Speaker 1: It's adhd okay, there you go.
Speaker 3: And then James, are you working on the the Mega doc.
Speaker 3: I'm super excited for this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Mega doc.
Speaker 5: We'll see them light a day and we probably should
Speaker 5: hear news in the next couple months.
Speaker 3: Gentlemen, I am so excited to have talked with you
Speaker 3: today about this, and I'm really hoping that more people
Speaker 3: get to see Hearts of Darkness again on the big screen.
Speaker 3: I caught myself as very lucky way back in nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety one to be able to have seen this, so
Speaker 3: now more eyes on it all these years later in
Speaker 3: this restored version. Super excited for it.
Speaker 2: Thank thanks, Mike, appreciate it.
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