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<v Speaker 1>In the late nineteenth century, a groundbreaking advancement in criminal

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<v Speaker 1>investigations took place. In the aftermath of a brutal attack

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<v Speaker 1>on a family that left too dead, a single bloody

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<v Speaker 1>fingerprint was discovered. This lone piece of evidence would ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>solve the case, bringing the murderer to justice, marking the

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<v Speaker 1>first time fingerprints were ever used to convict a criminal,

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<v Speaker 1>and it changed investigation methods forever.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked Ingram,

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<v Speaker 2>a true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>The following podcast and material intended for a mature audience

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<v Speaker 1>listener discretion. Oh that's a good sound.

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<v Speaker 2>It's been a while.

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<v Speaker 1>It's been a while. I'm actually technically double fisting right now.

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<v Speaker 1>You really are, because I have a beer open already,

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<v Speaker 1>just a little bit left in the bottom, but I

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<v Speaker 1>needed a second one for that sound at the beginning

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<v Speaker 1>of the podcast. So I'm just like, I need to

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<v Speaker 1>so here I am. You just needed it, Hey, sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>you do.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes you do.

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<v Speaker 1>And when your favorite sports team loses as bad as

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<v Speaker 1>they just did for us, you need to.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because I think you were saving that for the podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you're like, fuck it, I'm gonna have one

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<v Speaker 2>now and later.

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<v Speaker 1>That's exactly what happens. So here we are.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, Oh well, what.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you do? You can drink two beer. Though they

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<v Speaker 1>can't always they they can certainly always lose. By the

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<v Speaker 1>looks of it. You almost spat your freaking drink at me.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I wasn't expecting that.

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<v Speaker 1>So are you stoked for this episode?

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<v Speaker 2>I am, actually.

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<v Speaker 1>Because this is I'm talking criminology history on this one.

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<v Speaker 1>This isn't just a regular case. This is something that

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<v Speaker 1>marked a very significant time and a very significant advancement

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<v Speaker 1>in criminal investigations.

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<v Speaker 2>No kidding. And I don't think this is ever anything

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<v Speaker 2>I've looked into or looked up. So this is this

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<v Speaker 2>is great.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not something I ever considered either, except recently. I

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<v Speaker 1>started in twenty twenty four using chat gpt for finding

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<v Speaker 1>new and interesting cases, and in a discussion with chat

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<v Speaker 1>gept about some obscure interesting cases in a discussion, well yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>in a discussion.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I'm obsessed with chatpt. I feel like they're

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<v Speaker 2>like my friend. They talk to me so nice.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, and I talked to them nicely to because

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<v Speaker 1>they're so nice. And also, you know, just in case

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<v Speaker 1>one day. Hey, maybe it might spare my life. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, but I digress. I had a conversation with

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<v Speaker 1>Chatgypt and they brought this up to me and I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, hmm, that seems interesting. Tell me more. And

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<v Speaker 1>then so it did, and then I was like, I

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<v Speaker 1>think I just found a case that I'm gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>researching soon. And then so it stuck in my list

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<v Speaker 1>for a little while and then yeah, here I am.

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<v Speaker 2>That's awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>Cool story, Hey bro, super cool story.

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<v Speaker 2>I know. Actually, every time I ask chapt anything, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>always like okay, like thanks so much, and then they

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<v Speaker 2>always are like, oh, You're so welcome if you need

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<v Speaker 2>any more help. But I'm like, right, thanks so much,

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<v Speaker 2>and they just wish you luck on all your endeavors,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Am, okay, wan on something really cool. Because I wrote

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<v Speaker 1>a poem the other day, you.

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<v Speaker 2>Did, he was supposed to be working What were you

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<v Speaker 2>supposed to be working on? Is that research?

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's probably really like, how's it going on?

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<v Speaker 2>I wrote a poem?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? So the reason I wrote a poem is because

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<v Speaker 1>we're attending a Robbie Burns Night event. I believe I

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<v Speaker 1>discussed it on a recent episode. Yeah, and so Robbie

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<v Speaker 1>Burns is a poet that's celebrated globally, Scottish poet. Long, so,

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<v Speaker 1>long story story. I wrote a poem to share at

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<v Speaker 1>our table in honor of Robbie Burns and in honor

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<v Speaker 1>of the people were sharing the evening with. It's really

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<v Speaker 1>good and thank you. I had a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>help from chat gapt in a couple of lines. Is

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<v Speaker 1>getting stuck with, you know, a little bit of flow

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<v Speaker 1>sort of thing, right, help me refine, I guess if

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<v Speaker 1>you will. And at the end of it, chat gpt

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<v Speaker 1>even cheers me in Scottish. It wished me luck on

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<v Speaker 1>the event and reading the poem and it said Solange

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<v Speaker 1>of va. Oh wow Scottish cheers.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's cool.

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<v Speaker 1>It was amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh man, okay, yeah, that is so awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I digress. Sorry, I think we should we

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<v Speaker 1>should get to this episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. So we're going back, as I said in the intro,

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<v Speaker 1>to the late nineteenth century, and we're heading to Argentina.

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<v Speaker 1>So Argentina was going undergoing significant changes at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>The small coastal town of Nechoia, located along the Atlantic

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<v Speaker 1>Ocean was about three hundred and thirty miles from Buenos Aires,

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<v Speaker 1>and it remained a quiet retreat despite the country's economic growth.

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<v Speaker 1>Fishermen set out at dawn, and during the warmer months,

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<v Speaker 1>visitors flocked to its wide beaches, its hot springs, and

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<v Speaker 1>of course the forested trails as well. Life here moved

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<v Speaker 1>at a slower and more peaceful play pace. Picture exactly

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<v Speaker 1>what we all want to get away from the hustle

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<v Speaker 1>and bustle and go move to. That's pretty much what's

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<v Speaker 1>happening here.

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<v Speaker 2>Sounds lovely now.

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<v Speaker 1>Francisca Roja Roja, I think Rojas, Roha, Roja, Roja, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going with Roja. Francisca Roja was born in Necochia in

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen sixty five, and Nicochia is the area. Again. This

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<v Speaker 1>is one of those things. I don't know how to

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<v Speaker 1>pronounce it, but I'm doing my best.

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<v Speaker 2>So.

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<v Speaker 1>She grew up in a modest home, receiving only a

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<v Speaker 1>basic education, as schooling in Argentina was still not widely accessible.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't until eighteen eighty four that a law was

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<v Speaker 1>passed ensuring free and secular education for all children. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>during this period in Argentina. It was expanding, you know, economically,

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<v Speaker 1>with a wave of European immigrants arriving to work in

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<v Speaker 1>the country's growing industries. Many sought better opportunities in larger cities,

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<v Speaker 1>but Francisca chose to stay in her hometown. As a

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<v Speaker 1>young woman, she married a man by the name of

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<v Speaker 1>Ponciano carral Bayo, and together they had two children, a son,

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<v Speaker 1>Ponziano Junior and a daughter, Felicia. They lived a short

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<v Speaker 1>distance from the center of town. Now, Ponziano worked long

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<v Speaker 1>hours but earned a modest living, so he was one

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<v Speaker 1>of those hard work and father sort of thing, doing

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<v Speaker 1>his best, but you know, just bringing home your average

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<v Speaker 1>sort of income. Now, over time, their marriage became strained

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<v Speaker 1>for one reason or another. Rumors spread that Francisca had

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<v Speaker 1>been seeing another man. Ooh, and whispers of her supposed

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<v Speaker 1>infidelity reached the ears of her husband.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh shit, I hate that.

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<v Speaker 1>That is just the absolute worst infidelity, Yeah, or people talking.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess both, but more so the infidelity. Like gosh,

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<v Speaker 2>I just think that is just the worst.

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<v Speaker 1>I honestly think if there is infidelity this excuse me,

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<v Speaker 1>infidelity occurring that I would prefer people to talk because

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<v Speaker 1>that way you learn about it. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, but I mean, just like I separate, I suppose,

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<v Speaker 2>right yeah, or anything like that happens, or.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no point in hurting another person. Just yeah, do

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<v Speaker 1>exactly what you say.

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<v Speaker 2>Separate, I mean, which would still hurt them. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think like the infidelity is worse.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it hurts more because then there's infidelity, and so

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<v Speaker 1>it's like, you know, it's even more piled up. Yeah, now,

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<v Speaker 1>friends and neighbors, Warren Ponciano that his wife was not faithful,

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<v Speaker 1>and eventually he made a very difficult decision. He made

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<v Speaker 1>the decision that he was going to leave her and

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<v Speaker 1>take the children with him.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>He believed that if you were to take the children

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<v Speaker 1>that they would have a better life without her in it.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, okay, you go now.

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<v Speaker 1>For Francesca, though, this was devastating. Under Argentina's Civil Code,

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<v Speaker 1>which had been enacted in eighteen sixty nine, men and

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<v Speaker 1>women were legally considered equals, which I mean hell yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>which meant for her that she would not receive any

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<v Speaker 1>special consideration in this separation, and she feared without her

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<v Speaker 1>husband's support, she would be I mean living, would just

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<v Speaker 1>become extremely difficult, right, He was kind of the bread

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<v Speaker 1>winter before, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, but I mean she should have thought about

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<v Speaker 2>her actions.

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<v Speaker 1>Then, exactly. So she pleaded with Ponciano to reconsider, but

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<v Speaker 1>his mind was made up. He was still young, hardworking,

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<v Speaker 1>and determined to provide for a better future for his children,

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<v Speaker 1>just not with Francisco in their lives.

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<v Speaker 2>I kind of love this actually, that he's just like peace,

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<v Speaker 2>right yeah, with the kiddos.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So in Argentina by nineteen sorry, by eighteen ninety two,

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<v Speaker 1>which is when this is taking place, Argentina was slowly

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<v Speaker 1>recovering from a financial crisis that left many people struggling.

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<v Speaker 1>Though the economy was improving at the time, jobs were

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<v Speaker 1>still scarce and wages remained low. So for Francisca, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>things remained uncertain for her. She's like, how am I

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<v Speaker 1>going to get a job? What am I going to

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<v Speaker 1>do to support myself? Right?

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<v Speaker 2>M hmm.

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<v Speaker 1>With her husband planning to leave take the children, it

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<v Speaker 1>was just like all this worry of how she's going

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<v Speaker 1>to survive on her own that was piling up. So

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<v Speaker 1>on June nineteenth, Ponciano returned to the house that they

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<v Speaker 1>shared now This was still the same day that he

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<v Speaker 1>broke this news to her, right, So he broke this

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<v Speaker 1>news to her, went off. For whatever reason, he had

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<v Speaker 1>left the house and he was going to come back

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<v Speaker 1>at a certain time, and he told Francisca about his

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<v Speaker 1>decision to leave already, right though he hadn't actually moved

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<v Speaker 1>out yet. It's same day. Lots to deal with, right,

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<v Speaker 1>it takes time. Yeah, So the time was just after

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<v Speaker 1>two pm when he had arrived back at the house.

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<v Speaker 1>So he expected, you know, to come on in, enter

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<v Speaker 1>as usual, gone about their day, figure out what the

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<v Speaker 1>next steps are. But when he arrived and tried to

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<v Speaker 1>open the door, the door wouldn't budge. It was stuck. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>this struck odd. Francisca and the children were supposed to

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<v Speaker 1>be home, and she hadn't mentioned going anywhere, like locking

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<v Speaker 1>out the house or whatever right before she left. It

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<v Speaker 1>was a Sunday, a day when most people weren't working,

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<v Speaker 1>and she knew he was coming home. So on, growing unease,

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<v Speaker 1>growing unease, Pontiana went to his neighbor, Romano Velasquez, and

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<v Speaker 1>he asked for help to get in the home. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the two men returned to the house and worked together

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<v Speaker 1>to force the door open. Nothing could have prepared them

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<v Speaker 1>for what they found on the other side of that door.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh. What well. As soon as they stepped inside,

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<v Speaker 1>they were met with a gruesome scene. Francisca was laying

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<v Speaker 1>near the entrance to the door, covered in blood, clutching

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<v Speaker 1>her neck in a panic. But the true horror was

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<v Speaker 1>in the bedroom. She was still alive, but both of

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<v Speaker 1>their children were dead. Their throats had been slashed so

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<v Speaker 1>brutally that their heads were nearly severed from their body.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. Okay. Also, you, I don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>I should say this, you distracted the absolute shit out

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<v Speaker 2>of me because you were like the true horror, and

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, is the life? And then I was

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<v Speaker 2>just thinking of all that, and I wasn't taking the

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<v Speaker 2>scene seriously, and I was like, oh god.

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<v Speaker 1>The true horror. Horror.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay. So anyway, the wife is alive, she's alive, and

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<v Speaker 2>the kids are fucking dead. Correct, Holy shit, that's horrible. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>way to make a shitty day, like, you know, about

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<v Speaker 2>a million times shittier.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly right. So the neighbor of Lasquez ran for help immediately,

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<v Speaker 1>and the authorities quickly arrived. Ponciano was inconsolable, overwhelmed with

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<v Speaker 1>shock and grief. Now Francisca, though alive, was in a

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<v Speaker 1>state of hysteria, making it difficult for doctors to even

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<v Speaker 1>assess her injuries whatsoever. As police surveyed the crime scene,

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<v Speaker 1>one question loomed overhead. Who could committed such a monstrous act,

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<v Speaker 1>especially against two innocent children, six year old Ponziano Junior

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<v Speaker 1>and four year old Felicia Gosh.

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<v Speaker 2>I have a feeling that it has something to do

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<v Speaker 2>with the infidelity, and like the kids are just like

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<v Speaker 2>the innocent ones in this, so this is horrible.

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<v Speaker 1>They are, Well, if it has something to do with

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<v Speaker 1>the infidelity, what do you think could have happened? Where's

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<v Speaker 1>your head going with that?

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<v Speaker 2>Well?

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<v Speaker 1>Curious?

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<v Speaker 2>My thought is maybe it's like someone that she was

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<v Speaker 2>with or something like a different partner. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if she had more than one or whatever, or I

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<v Speaker 2>was almost even the at first like it was her.

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<v Speaker 2>But then if she's super injured, that's not that could

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't necessarily rule her out. Her being injured because like

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<v Speaker 2>self infliction, potentially we've heard of that before. I think, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think I'm gonna go with like one of

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<v Speaker 2>her her partners that was from outside the marriage.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, why would a partner attack like this though like that?

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<v Speaker 1>That That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around here.

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<v Speaker 2>Why he was leaving with the kids?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe I don't know. I feel like it's more it

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<v Speaker 2>more so could be her, But I don't know the

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<v Speaker 2>extent of her of the injury. So let's let me

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<v Speaker 2>just carry on listening.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, no one's really sure of the extent of her

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<v Speaker 1>injuries because she's in such hysteria, like doctors canning me

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<v Speaker 1>close to her.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, because she could have just the blood of the

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<v Speaker 2>kids on her potentially.

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<v Speaker 1>Which is true. So okay, Now, once Francisca did calm

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<v Speaker 1>down a bit, police, like I said, doctors weren't able

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<v Speaker 1>to check her out. She'd fucking panic if that were

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<v Speaker 1>the case. But police were able to speak with her,

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<v Speaker 1>and though her injuries were serious, they weren't life threatening.

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<v Speaker 1>And she was asked who attacked her and killed her children,

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<v Speaker 1>she didn't hesitate. She named the neighbor, the neighbor Velasquez,

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<v Speaker 1>mister Velaskaz, the same man who helped Pontiano break into

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<v Speaker 1>the house. She claimed that Vlaskaz struck her with a spade,

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<v Speaker 1>the very tool that was found to have wedged against

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<v Speaker 1>the door that was holding it shut.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, what the shit.

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<v Speaker 1>However, this statement immediately raised questions for authorities. The spade

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<v Speaker 1>had been blocking the entrance from the inside, So how

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<v Speaker 1>could Velaskaz have been the attacker if he was outside

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<v Speaker 1>to help Pontiano force the door open? Right? Okay, so

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<v Speaker 1>the police pressed on back door. Maybe I don't know. Yeah, well,

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<v Speaker 1>they pressed her on this, and but she insisted. She

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<v Speaker 1>explained that Ponziano had asked Velasquez to come and take

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<v Speaker 1>the children as he planned to leave her and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>raise him on his own right. So, according to Francesca,

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<v Speaker 1>when Velasquez arrived to collect them, she refused to let

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<v Speaker 1>them go. An argument broke out, and in a fit

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<v Speaker 1>of rage, she claimed, he attacked her and then brutally

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<v Speaker 1>murdered the children in the attack. It wasn't long before

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<v Speaker 1>Velasquez was arrested. News of the crime quickly spread through

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<v Speaker 1>the town, and before any real investigation had taken place,

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<v Speaker 1>most of the people had already made up their minds

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<v Speaker 1>that he.

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<v Speaker 2>Was guilty, okay and sorry. The thought was that he

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<v Speaker 2>was in there to gather the children.

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<v Speaker 1>That that's what she says. Yes, that's what Francesca says. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so she said that he came to like collect the

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<v Speaker 1>children for her husband, Ponsano, and she refused and then

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<v Speaker 1>like like a toussl or, something broke out and it

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<v Speaker 1>escalated and that happened.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but that would make no sense that like he

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<v Speaker 2>would go about killing the kids, like, if anything, I

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00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:12.039
<v Speaker 2>could see her being injured, but not necessarily the kids.

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00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:15.399
<v Speaker 1>Right, and then of course the spade and the door,

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00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:18.159
<v Speaker 1>how did that happen? House? He on the outside. So

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of queries floating around on how does

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00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:24.320
<v Speaker 1>this really play at? Like huh, like you know what

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00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:24.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean?

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00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:25.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, at the police station, Velasquez was interrogated relentlessly. He

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00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.559
<v Speaker 1>swore he had nothing to do with the murders. No

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<v Speaker 1>matter how much the authorities pressured him, he was disorbed.

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00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:41.320
<v Speaker 1>He just said like no. They resorted to brutal interrogation

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00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:43.679
<v Speaker 1>methods against him, and even like keep in mind, this

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00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:46.799
<v Speaker 1>is nineteenth century Argentina here, this is like not a

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00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:51.320
<v Speaker 1>modern day a era. He refused to confess no matter

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00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:53.600
<v Speaker 1>what they threw at him. He kept repeating the same

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00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:57.919
<v Speaker 1>story he had only helped Pontiano get inside the house,

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<v Speaker 1>he had nothing to do with the attack.

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<v Speaker 2>Gosh, I think you should just never be a neighbor

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00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.440
<v Speaker 2>because this is the second case now where like the

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00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:06.920
<v Speaker 2>neighbor just gets like shit on.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, just buy one hundred acres, live out in the woods.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what you need to do.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, never had neighbors. Still look like a weird person

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<v Speaker 2>that could potentially commit murder.

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<v Speaker 1>Probably, Yeah, there's that weird person who lives out in

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<v Speaker 1>the woods. It's probably them now. Regardless of Pontiano denying

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<v Speaker 1>any of this, the police they weren't convinced of his innocence.

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<v Speaker 1>They believed that they had their men, and so did

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00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:34.119
<v Speaker 1>the townspeople. The evidence, though, didn't add up, but in

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00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:39.160
<v Speaker 1>their eyes, there was no need to look any further. Well,

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00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:41.960
<v Speaker 1>not necessarily look any further, I guess I kind of

332
00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:44.519
<v Speaker 1>wrote that a little bit wrong. Not necessarily look any further.

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00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:47.599
<v Speaker 1>They're looking further into it, but they they believed they

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00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:52.359
<v Speaker 1>already had the answer, I guess. So the investigation was continuing.

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00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:55.759
<v Speaker 1>Witnesses began actually coming forward, in fact, during this the

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00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:58.279
<v Speaker 1>next few days, and there were some statements that kind

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00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:02.640
<v Speaker 1>of seemed uh to change a little bit. Several people

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00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:07.000
<v Speaker 1>confirmed that Raman Velasquez had actually been with them at

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00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:10.680
<v Speaker 1>the approximate time that the murders would have taken place. Okay,

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00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:13.359
<v Speaker 1>their accounts matched perfectly, in fact of lining up with

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00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:16.319
<v Speaker 1>what Velaskaz himself had told the police at the very beginning.

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00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:20.839
<v Speaker 1>So detectives poured over the details again and again. In

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<v Speaker 1>one statement in particular stood out. Velasquez had mentioned that

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<v Speaker 1>on the morning of the crime, Francisca had come to

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00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:31.079
<v Speaker 1>his house and had a heated argument with his wife.

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<v Speaker 1>When she left, he recalled that she had been visibly angry. Now,

347
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:39.680
<v Speaker 1>at first the police they couldn't shake the idea that

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00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:43.200
<v Speaker 1>Flaskaz might have gone to the house afterwards and committed

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00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:45.920
<v Speaker 1>the crime in a fit of rage. But his alibi

350
00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:48.480
<v Speaker 1>was air tight. No matter how much they wanted to

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00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:52.759
<v Speaker 1>believe he was guilty. There was just these inconsistencies that

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00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:56.400
<v Speaker 1>made them hesitate. What they thought before was a slam dunk,

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<v Speaker 1>Now it didn't seem so sure. There is that one

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00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:06.519
<v Speaker 1>glaring inconsistency that still loomed over them though. The door

355
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:11.160
<v Speaker 1>being jammed shut from the inside. If Laskaz had killed

356
00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:15.960
<v Speaker 1>Francisca and the sorry Francisca's children, there we go. That

357
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:18.440
<v Speaker 1>was almost a tongue twister for me, and assaulted her

358
00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:21.920
<v Speaker 1>and then left. How could he have locked himself out?

359
00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:24.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's why I was thinking that maybe there's a

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00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:25.599
<v Speaker 2>second door or some shit.

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00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:29.440
<v Speaker 1>Right, No, I don't believe that's the case, unfortunately. Okay,

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00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:34.400
<v Speaker 1>that's when investigators started to ask themselves a different question.

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<v Speaker 1>What if Velaskaz wasn't the killer. But if he wasn't,

364
00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:45.880
<v Speaker 1>then who was. One week after the attack, Francisca was

365
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<v Speaker 1>finally examined by a doctor. Remember at the beginning, I

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00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:53.160
<v Speaker 1>said she was like hysterical, hysterical, and doctors couldn't get

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<v Speaker 1>near her right. She claimed she was still in pain

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00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:58.079
<v Speaker 1>from the injuries that she had suffered that day. But

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00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:01.400
<v Speaker 1>the doctors inspected her and they were prized there was

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00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:04.200
<v Speaker 1>no visible signs of bruising, and she claimed to have

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<v Speaker 1>been struck by this shovel in the back and the head,

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<v Speaker 1>not to mention that she had laceration on her neck.

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<v Speaker 1>Right now, the spade that was found on the crime scene,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a heavy tool. If someone as strong as

375
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<v Speaker 1>Vlaskaz had struck her, as she claimed the injuries will

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00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:23.799
<v Speaker 1>be far more severe, and they also couldn't understand how

377
00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:28.480
<v Speaker 1>she actually survived this injury when it was or sorry

378
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:32.440
<v Speaker 1>with this attack with only minor injuries, because the laceration

379
00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:34.799
<v Speaker 1>on her neck wasn't as bad as it first seemed.

380
00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.480
<v Speaker 1>It only really seemed to be a small cut. It

381
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:40.920
<v Speaker 1>almost like it had healed up way too fast. Oh jeez.

382
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:45.240
<v Speaker 2>Well and also like whoever was doing this was you know,

383
00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:50.319
<v Speaker 2>in for vengeance, right with what they did to the kids. Yeah,

384
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:52.200
<v Speaker 2>so she wouldn't be getting out of that like.

385
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.359
<v Speaker 1>Scott free exactly. So this small cut that she had,

386
00:20:56.680 --> 00:20:59.599
<v Speaker 1>it was pretty much healed, and it's like, okay, this

387
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:02.640
<v Speaker 1>is to be a brutal inflicted injury. Like the children's

388
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:06.680
<v Speaker 1>heads are nearly severed, you're covered in blood and like hysterical,

389
00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:08.680
<v Speaker 1>and now here we are a week later and it's

390
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:11.680
<v Speaker 1>like almost completely gone. There's no bruisings on you, no,

391
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:19.400
<v Speaker 1>nothing like this again doesn't add up. So by July eighth,

392
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:22.519
<v Speaker 1>news of the shocking crime had spread beyond the area,

393
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:27.079
<v Speaker 1>reaching La Plata, a capital in Buenos Aires Province. Now

394
00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:29.759
<v Speaker 1>the case had drawn attention from higher authorities, and with

395
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:32.680
<v Speaker 1>pressure mounting to solve it, A more experienced team of

396
00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:37.160
<v Speaker 1>investigators was actually sent out to investigate, so leading the

397
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.839
<v Speaker 1>new investigation was inspected Inspector at Duardo Alvarez, a seasoned

398
00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:46.559
<v Speaker 1>officer with a strong reputation. When he arrived in town, Roman,

399
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:50.599
<v Speaker 1>Velasquez was still in custody despite the lack of solid

400
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:55.680
<v Speaker 1>evidence against him, so police were reluctant to release him.

401
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:58.119
<v Speaker 1>I mean, after all, he was their only suspect, right,

402
00:21:58.519 --> 00:21:59.640
<v Speaker 1>But inspect.

403
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:02.079
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't, honest seem like there is really much evidence

404
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:03.839
<v Speaker 2>pointing to him though at all.

405
00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:07.640
<v Speaker 1>There's not. The only evidence really pointing towards him is

406
00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:18.759
<v Speaker 1>the victims. What's the word confession not confession statement statement?

407
00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:20.519
<v Speaker 1>I guess, yeah, the victim statement and is.

408
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:22.720
<v Speaker 2>Close proximity I guess too, I guess so.

409
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:28.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, Inspector Alvarez wasn't convinced that he was the

410
00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:32.640
<v Speaker 1>man that Velasquez was the man. Inspector Alvarez arrived at

411
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:34.720
<v Speaker 1>the crime scene. I mean, this is a week later, right,

412
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:36.799
<v Speaker 1>but we do have this crime scene, and he's determined

413
00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:40.400
<v Speaker 1>to piece together what really happened. By now we are

414
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:44.240
<v Speaker 1>nearly three weeks past. Sorry, so we are three weeks

415
00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:46.359
<v Speaker 1>past the brutal attack and the murder of the two

416
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:50.880
<v Speaker 1>children's remained unsolved. After surveying the property, he carefully reviewed

417
00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:55.359
<v Speaker 1>the statements given by both Francisca and Vlasquez. Almost immediately

418
00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:59.440
<v Speaker 1>for him, something felt off. Vlaska's account had been backed

419
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:01.599
<v Speaker 1>up by witnesses who were with him at the time

420
00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:05.200
<v Speaker 1>of the crime, but Francisca's version it didn't add up.

421
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:10.640
<v Speaker 1>Her injuries were suspiciously minor, she had initially refused medical attention,

422
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:13.559
<v Speaker 1>and the most puzzling of all, the door was jam

423
00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:16.319
<v Speaker 1>shut from the inside of the home with this spade.

424
00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Yep.

425
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:19.640
<v Speaker 1>So if Flaskaz was a killer, you know again, how

426
00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:23.680
<v Speaker 1>can he lock himself out? Inspector Alvarez couldn't understand why

427
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:26.440
<v Speaker 1>the police had Flaskeez in custody for so long with

428
00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:30.000
<v Speaker 1>so little evidence against him. Then he came across something

429
00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:33.079
<v Speaker 1>in the case file that caught his attention. Velasquez had

430
00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:36.720
<v Speaker 1>reported hearing Francisca say that her lover refused to marry

431
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:44.559
<v Speaker 1>her because she had young children. Oh shit, remember when

432
00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:48.319
<v Speaker 1>there was that heated argument with his wife and Francisca.

433
00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yep.

434
00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:53.559
<v Speaker 1>So it was a seemingly small detail, but Alvarez. To him,

435
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:56.680
<v Speaker 1>it was significant for the first time he considered the

436
00:23:56.680 --> 00:24:02.519
<v Speaker 1>possibility that Francesca herself, Wow, might be responsible for the murders.

437
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:08.680
<v Speaker 2>What a complete monster if this is what has actually happened.

438
00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:12.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, do you want to revise your your thoughts? Do

439
00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:14.359
<v Speaker 1>you want to tell me what your head's at now,

440
00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:15.119
<v Speaker 1>what you think is going on?

441
00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:17.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, at first, I because I did mention it could

442
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:21.079
<v Speaker 2>potentially have been her, But then I was thinking it

443
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:24.640
<v Speaker 2>was more so like because he, like her ex or

444
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:26.960
<v Speaker 2>husband or whatever, was going to take the kids away.

445
00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:28.960
<v Speaker 2>So it's like if I can't have my kids, like

446
00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:30.640
<v Speaker 2>no one can, kind of thing like I thought she

447
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:33.160
<v Speaker 2>was kind of she maybe did this in spite, but

448
00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:38.279
<v Speaker 2>like to just be with her freaking lover. Oh man,

449
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:40.519
<v Speaker 2>that's t that, Okay. I was gonna say that ten

450
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:43.319
<v Speaker 2>times worse. Either one is terrible. Either one's so terrible.

451
00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:46.799
<v Speaker 2>But this lady is like a selfish piece of shit,

452
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:51.559
<v Speaker 2>Like she's just disgusting. I'm disgusted with her fair enough.

453
00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:54.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't even want to listen to about her anymore.

454
00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:58.319
<v Speaker 1>You just done well. As I mentioned in the intro,

455
00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:00.920
<v Speaker 1>there's a very significant piece of this puzzle.

456
00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:06.039
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yes, that's where I'm wondering. Oh, okay, so abriy,

457
00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:09.759
<v Speaker 2>I was like, it could be the lover then maybe potentially, Okay, okay,

458
00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:12.640
<v Speaker 2>are you good? I'm good.

459
00:25:12.680 --> 00:25:15.759
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, do you want to explain what just happened? I

460
00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:17.720
<v Speaker 1>feel like you just had a stroke or something.

461
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:21.640
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm just so convinced that it was her, but like,

462
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:25.079
<v Speaker 2>it's still very much could be her lover. I'm thinking

463
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:27.799
<v Speaker 2>because even if they found a bloody fingerprint in there,

464
00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:31.920
<v Speaker 2>I am unsure and it was hers, I'm unsure that

465
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:35.240
<v Speaker 2>would like solve this per se. But if they found

466
00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:38.039
<v Speaker 2>the fingerprint and it was like the lovers, then it's

467
00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:40.400
<v Speaker 2>like okay, boom okay.

468
00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:45.839
<v Speaker 1>Determined to find concrete evidence, the inspector returned to the

469
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.519
<v Speaker 1>home once again, and he was convinced that something had

470
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:53.000
<v Speaker 1>been overlooked, so he meticulously searched each room up down,

471
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.599
<v Speaker 1>every square inch, paying attention to detail all over the place,

472
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.519
<v Speaker 1>and specifically in the children's bedroom, and that's when he

473
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:04.400
<v Speaker 1>noticed it, a dried blood stain on the door. Now,

474
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:06.920
<v Speaker 1>at first glance, it looked like an ordinary smear, but

475
00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:12.039
<v Speaker 1>on closer inspection, Alvarez realized that it's the distinct shape

476
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:15.319
<v Speaker 1>of a fingerprint. He thought the stain had darkened over

477
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:17.680
<v Speaker 1>time it was still but it was still clearly visible,

478
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:22.000
<v Speaker 1>now just a dark brown color. But he believed it

479
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:24.480
<v Speaker 1>could be a crucial piece of forensic evidence, so he

480
00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:29.319
<v Speaker 1>ordered his men to carefully remove that section of the door. Now,

481
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:32.240
<v Speaker 1>Francesca had claimed in her statement that she had never

482
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:36.799
<v Speaker 1>touched the children's bodies after they were killed. If the

483
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:40.240
<v Speaker 1>bloody fingerprint turned out to be hers, it could suggest

484
00:26:40.359 --> 00:26:44.200
<v Speaker 1>that she was lying, and might also suggest that she

485
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:48.160
<v Speaker 1>was the real killer. Now, at the time, fingerprints were

486
00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:51.599
<v Speaker 1>already being used for identification, but they'd never been used

487
00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:54.519
<v Speaker 1>to solve a crime. So a little bit of history here.

488
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:58.079
<v Speaker 1>Sir William Herschel, a British officer working in India, had

489
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:01.039
<v Speaker 1>been one of the first Europeans to recognize their significance.

490
00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:04.039
<v Speaker 1>In the eighteen fifties, while working for the Indian civil

491
00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:08.680
<v Speaker 1>Service in Bengal, he began using fingerprints on contracts to

492
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:12.400
<v Speaker 1>prevent fraud. He also documented his own fingerprints over the

493
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:17.079
<v Speaker 1>years to prove that they remained unchanged over time. Okay,

494
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:21.079
<v Speaker 1>so the potential of fingerprints and forensic work had first

495
00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:24.480
<v Speaker 1>been proposed in eighteen eighty. At this point, that would

496
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:27.759
<v Speaker 1>have been twelve years prior by doctor Henry Faulds and

497
00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:31.839
<v Speaker 1>later expanded on by Sir Francis Galton. Now Galton. His

498
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:35.000
<v Speaker 1>research revealed that fingerprints were unique to each and every

499
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:39.279
<v Speaker 1>individual and that no two were exact alike. This discovery

500
00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:43.279
<v Speaker 1>laid the foundation for fingerprint analysis as a scientific method

501
00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:47.839
<v Speaker 1>for identification. Now Inspector Alvarez happened to have a friend

502
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:50.519
<v Speaker 1>who was deeply involved in this field. The man who

503
00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:55.240
<v Speaker 1>had immigrated to Argentina from Croatia in eighteen eighty two,

504
00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:58.119
<v Speaker 1>was at the age of twenty four, was an anthropologist

505
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:01.839
<v Speaker 1>working in the police headquarters Mar del Plata. There he

506
00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:05.480
<v Speaker 1>had been developing fingerprint classification methods based on Galton's work,

507
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:09.839
<v Speaker 1>So in March of eighteen ninety two, he established Argentina's

508
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:14.640
<v Speaker 1>first fingerprint bureau. Believing he might be onto something groundbreaking,

509
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:20.279
<v Speaker 1>Inspector Alvarez collected ink fingerprint samples from both Francesca and Velasquez,

510
00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:22.799
<v Speaker 1>and he sent them to his friend at this location.

511
00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:26.160
<v Speaker 1>We're talking the same, very very same guy, right, the

512
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:30.880
<v Speaker 1>guy who's expanding on Galton's work. He sent these over

513
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:33.880
<v Speaker 1>there for him for analysis, to compare them against this

514
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.880
<v Speaker 1>bloody fingerprint on the section of the door, and guess

515
00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:42.039
<v Speaker 1>what found a match. When the results came back, the

516
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:46.920
<v Speaker 1>investigators were stunned. The fingerprint on the door was a

517
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:54.359
<v Speaker 1>perfect match to the ink sample that was taken by

518
00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:56.480
<v Speaker 1>the mom Francesca.

519
00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:02.599
<v Speaker 2>Yes, oh my gosh, so right there, Like she's a liar,

520
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:04.319
<v Speaker 2>a big time liar.

521
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:06.839
<v Speaker 1>At the very least, it was proof that she'd been

522
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:09.279
<v Speaker 1>in contact with a crime scene in the way that

523
00:29:09.319 --> 00:29:10.559
<v Speaker 1>she previously did not, Right.

524
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:13.680
<v Speaker 2>I also just have to say that would be so difficult,

525
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:18.519
<v Speaker 2>I feel like too, like without using computer, Like you

526
00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:21.400
<v Speaker 2>think CSI and the digital and like you're overlapping a

527
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:23.440
<v Speaker 2>fingerprint to match and shit, like, I feel like that

528
00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:26.680
<v Speaker 2>would be so difficult to do on like without digital.

529
00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:29.680
<v Speaker 1>You know, well, I don't know. I mean, I'm not

530
00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:32.279
<v Speaker 1>sure on the invention of the microscope, but I mean

531
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:35.279
<v Speaker 1>you at least have some magnification of certain sorts. Yeah,

532
00:29:35.319 --> 00:29:37.359
<v Speaker 1>And I mean with a light underneath the pane of glass,

533
00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:40.160
<v Speaker 1>you can overlap two papers really easy, I guess, right,

534
00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:43.480
<v Speaker 1>So I'm not sure in the process, but that's where

535
00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:45.960
<v Speaker 1>my head's going. You know, a little bit of magnification here,

536
00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:48.000
<v Speaker 1>some light underneath, let's see if we can line these

537
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:53.039
<v Speaker 1>up right. Okay. So now, despite the evidence, the police

538
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:56.559
<v Speaker 1>were still uncertain about the reliability of fingerprint analysis in

539
00:29:56.599 --> 00:30:01.519
<v Speaker 1>criminal investigations. Nonetheless, they confronted from Chesca with their findings.

540
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:05.519
<v Speaker 1>At first, she was quite confused about the whole situation,

541
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:09.559
<v Speaker 1>but as officers explained the methodology behind their conclusion, her

542
00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:15.920
<v Speaker 1>composure crumbled. Overcome with emotion, she broke down and confessed

543
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:21.440
<v Speaker 1>to the murder of her two children. Gosh. She explained

544
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:24.319
<v Speaker 1>to Inspector Alvarez that when her husband told her he

545
00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:28.759
<v Speaker 1>was leaving and taking the children with him, she was devastated.

546
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:32.000
<v Speaker 1>Unable to bear the thought of them being separated, she

547
00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:35.720
<v Speaker 1>decided that it would be better if they died all together.

548
00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:37.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

549
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Her plan had been to kill the children and then

550
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:43.519
<v Speaker 1>take her own life. However, after carrying out the first

551
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:47.279
<v Speaker 1>part of horrific decision, she found herself unable to go

552
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:49.599
<v Speaker 1>through with her own death.

553
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:53.480
<v Speaker 2>Which is kind of surprising if you just killed your

554
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:57.599
<v Speaker 2>own two kids, like, I'm unsure you could go forward

555
00:30:57.640 --> 00:30:58.279
<v Speaker 2>from that, you know.

556
00:30:58.519 --> 00:31:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, here's something from my thoughts here. She did more

557
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.519
<v Speaker 1>than kill her own kids. Their heads were almost completely

558
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:07.559
<v Speaker 1>severed from the body.

559
00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:08.960
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

560
00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:13.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I believe she took out some frustration or

561
00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:17.960
<v Speaker 1>anger or something of some sort of emotion on her kids.

562
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:25.519
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit. I just that is just unfamable to think

563
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:27.160
<v Speaker 2>rather a mom could do that.

564
00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:31.400
<v Speaker 1>Hey, yeah, but she did. Wow. Francisca was formally charged

565
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:34.920
<v Speaker 1>with the murders and taken into custody. Now given the

566
00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:38.200
<v Speaker 1>brutality for crime, she was extensively examined by doctors to

567
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:43.039
<v Speaker 1>determine whether she was legally insane. While murder was a

568
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:46.240
<v Speaker 1>capital offense in Argentina at the time, women were exempt

569
00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:51.039
<v Speaker 1>from the death penalty, so after multiple evaluations, medical experts

570
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:56.079
<v Speaker 1>concluded that Francesca was indeed quote insane, and on September twentieth,

571
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:59.799
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty sorry eighteen ninety four, she was transferred to

572
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:04.400
<v Speaker 1>Laura's Penitentiary near Marja Plata, where she remained behind bars

573
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:08.359
<v Speaker 1>for the rest of her life. Her case had a

574
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:12.640
<v Speaker 1>lasting impact on forensic science. The success of fingerprint analysis

575
00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:15.960
<v Speaker 1>in solving the crime encouraged Argentina government to expand its

576
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:21.319
<v Speaker 1>research into fingerprint identification. By nineteen hundreds, Argentina issued its

577
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:26.079
<v Speaker 1>first official identification card based on fingerprint records, and soon

578
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:30.119
<v Speaker 1>police departments around the world adopted what became known as

579
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:32.240
<v Speaker 1>the I'm going to pronounce this this? Are you going

580
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:38.720
<v Speaker 1>to butcher this pronunciation Vouchic method of fingerprint classification Vucich

581
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:41.039
<v Speaker 1>I think is maybe how you say it Voucich method

582
00:32:41.079 --> 00:32:46.960
<v Speaker 1>a fingerprint classification. Francesca Rosa del Cabaro Cabalo, There we go,

583
00:32:47.079 --> 00:32:51.039
<v Speaker 1>became the first person in history, the very first person

584
00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:54.920
<v Speaker 1>in history, to be convicted based on fingerprint evidence, a

585
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:59.720
<v Speaker 1>breakthrough that changed criminal investigations for ever.

586
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:03.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, good because like, honestly, without that, she would have

587
00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:05.000
<v Speaker 2>probably have gotten away with this.

588
00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:11.519
<v Speaker 1>That's exactly what would have happened. Damn holy shit.

589
00:33:12.039 --> 00:33:15.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this case is just mind blowing for like many reasons.

590
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:17.920
<v Speaker 2>The fact that she could do that to her own

591
00:33:18.039 --> 00:33:19.839
<v Speaker 2>children is just horrific.

592
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Fucking boggles the mind. Hey, what a bitch? Like seriously, I'm.

593
00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:28.519
<v Speaker 2>Not like more more than a bitch is like being nice.

594
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:32.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she's at least a double bitch, Holy.

595
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:36.279
<v Speaker 2>Shit, like a quadruple bitch. But also because yeah, like

596
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:39.279
<v Speaker 2>you said, she was taking like her rage out or

597
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:42.720
<v Speaker 2>but the kids didn't do anything. No, I'm just they're

598
00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:43.319
<v Speaker 2>so young.

599
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:45.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, she probably would have been directing some rage that

600
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:48.680
<v Speaker 1>she had at her husband Ponziano onto the kids.

601
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:52.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, then do it to him, like what the actual.

602
00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:54.599
<v Speaker 1>Shit, don't do it to him, don't do it to anybody.

603
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, you know what I mean. But the kids gosh,

604
00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:02.200
<v Speaker 2>and then and yeah, this whole the fingerprint world opening up,

605
00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:05.279
<v Speaker 2>Like that's just unreal. That is that's so good though

606
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:07.440
<v Speaker 2>it's it's solved so many things.

607
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I mean, if there is a person to be

608
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:16.119
<v Speaker 1>the first one in history, it's gonna be a piece

609
00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:16.840
<v Speaker 1>of shit like that.

610
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Hm.

611
00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:19.039
<v Speaker 1>So I'm glad that.

612
00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But then I also hate that she like kind

613
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:26.360
<v Speaker 2>of goes down in history and then her I don't know,

614
00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:31.119
<v Speaker 2>her story gets like you know, told like do you

615
00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:32.039
<v Speaker 2>know what I'm trying to say?

616
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:38.360
<v Speaker 1>There fair enough, however, I will rebuttal with forever in history,

617
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:40.599
<v Speaker 1>no one will ever forget how big of a piece

618
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:41.159
<v Speaker 1>of shit she.

619
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:42.800
<v Speaker 2>Was to Sche.

620
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:45.039
<v Speaker 1>So there we go to Sche.

621
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:48.599
<v Speaker 2>Honestly, fingerprints are so weird, Like it is actually so

622
00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:51.840
<v Speaker 2>odd that everyone has different fingerprints, and like you can't

623
00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:54.559
<v Speaker 2>even really like see by looking at your your fingers

624
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:56.880
<v Speaker 2>super close. You know, the other day, I was doing

625
00:34:56.920 --> 00:35:00.079
<v Speaker 2>some serious manual labor for a bit, which is a

626
00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:04.320
<v Speaker 2>and later I was just like, holy shit, I feel

627
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:06.800
<v Speaker 2>like I don't even have fingertips right now, Like our

628
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:09.679
<v Speaker 2>finger prints, they're just like they just worn off, got

629
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:10.360
<v Speaker 2>worn off.

630
00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:12.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, do you have you heard of the case about

631
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:17.400
<v Speaker 1>like the whole like Koala bear thing with fingerprints. No,

632
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:21.280
<v Speaker 1>so Koala bears have fingerprints as well, and their fingerprints

633
00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:24.519
<v Speaker 1>are very similar to human beings. Oh shit, So there

634
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:27.360
<v Speaker 1>have been crime scenes where Koala bear fingerprints have been

635
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:30.239
<v Speaker 1>and it fucks up the whole fucking investigation. They're trying

636
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:32.079
<v Speaker 1>to find certain fingerprints and it turns out it's a

637
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:32.960
<v Speaker 1>fucking Koala bear.

638
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:36.639
<v Speaker 2>Really, yeah, I have never ever heard anything like that.

639
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:40.159
<v Speaker 1>Really. No, Yeah, it's a legit thing, aren't.

640
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:42.519
<v Speaker 2>Kuala Bears like those cute little things, Like they're quite

641
00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:43.119
<v Speaker 2>cute looking.

642
00:35:43.239 --> 00:35:49.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but they also carry syphilis. They literally carry an STD. Okay,

643
00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:57.960
<v Speaker 1>they're adorable, don't get me wrong, but yeah, huh wow, Okay,

644
00:35:58.440 --> 00:35:59.679
<v Speaker 1>that's all you got to say.

645
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:02.400
<v Speaker 2>No, I was just thinking, like, how fingerprints, like in

646
00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:05.039
<v Speaker 2>that time, it's such a big deal and now, I

647
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:08.079
<v Speaker 2>mean they're still useful for sure, but it's like we've

648
00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:11.440
<v Speaker 2>progressed so much more right with like DNA and stuff.

649
00:36:11.239 --> 00:36:15.960
<v Speaker 1>All the advancements. Yeah, and honestly, like that was one

650
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:19.440
<v Speaker 1>hundred and thirty years ago, one hundred and forty years ago,

651
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:22.679
<v Speaker 1>somewhere in that ballpark. Yeah, like that's like we've come

652
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:25.840
<v Speaker 1>a long way, no shit to think that they just

653
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:28.440
<v Speaker 1>figured out fingerprints and now we have like the whole

654
00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:31.679
<v Speaker 1>DNA profiling with genetics and stuff online because hey, you

655
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:35.519
<v Speaker 1>anti sent some fucking sample in tencestry dot com.

656
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:38.079
<v Speaker 2>I know, it's so funny that Aunt Sue just is

657
00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:43.039
<v Speaker 2>like getting your assut like in jail, right, Like it's

658
00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:46.360
<v Speaker 2>act be pretty hilarious it honestly it is. Yeah, yeah,

659
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:48.159
<v Speaker 2>and you're almost kind of like, don't do that, but

660
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:49.760
<v Speaker 2>also like go.

661
00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:53.199
<v Speaker 1>For it out, so just do it, do it. Honestly,

662
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:54.920
<v Speaker 1>I kind of want to put my DNA in there

663
00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:57.119
<v Speaker 1>just so I could like fuck up any relatives that

664
00:36:57.199 --> 00:36:58.320
<v Speaker 1>do some shit stuff.

665
00:36:58.320 --> 00:36:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh, if you look at it that way, it kind

666
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:02.480
<v Speaker 2>of makes me want to. But I've always like been like, oh,

667
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:04.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to bother or I don't think I

668
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:08.360
<v Speaker 2>want to do that, but I don't know that I'm

669
00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:10.639
<v Speaker 2>planning to commit any crimes. And plus I think my

670
00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:14.239
<v Speaker 2>sister's done it, so I'm fucked anyway, really right, like

671
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:17.719
<v Speaker 2>if someone that close to you has done it, like, okay,

672
00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:22.119
<v Speaker 2>watch your back, no kidding, don't do anything shady.

673
00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:24.360
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I thought that would be a fun case

674
00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:26.639
<v Speaker 1>to cover a little bit interesting in history around it.

675
00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:30.719
<v Speaker 1>I know, have we covered the one about amber Amber Hagerman?

676
00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:32.800
<v Speaker 1>Have we covered that one yet?

677
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:35.840
<v Speaker 2>Is that like the nine one one thing or no?

678
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:37.400
<v Speaker 1>The Amber alert?

679
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, oh shit, I don't know. I remember looking at

680
00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:43.400
<v Speaker 2>something when nine one one or something became a thing,

681
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:48.039
<v Speaker 2>So this is I'm more thinking different cases here. I

682
00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:48.800
<v Speaker 2>don't know if we.

683
00:37:48.760 --> 00:37:52.320
<v Speaker 1>Have because that's when I know I've read up on

684
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:56.159
<v Speaker 1>a long time ago, very interesting case about Yeah, because

685
00:37:56.159 --> 00:37:58.320
<v Speaker 1>we all know the Amber alert, like, yeah, missing child,

686
00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:01.599
<v Speaker 1>right up, doctor child. Yeah, it's it's not amber like

687
00:38:01.639 --> 00:38:03.599
<v Speaker 1>the color, it's amber. The name name.

688
00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:06.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, if we haven't, we should, we should have to

689
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:06.960
<v Speaker 2>look it up.

690
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:09.559
<v Speaker 1>I guess, gosh, go through our library just to be certain.

691
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:11.800
<v Speaker 1>We honestly have to do that all the time, just

692
00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:13.880
<v Speaker 1>retrack through our library. And she's like, did we do

693
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:14.480
<v Speaker 1>this one? I think?

694
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean it's kind of hard to think back

695
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:19.199
<v Speaker 2>like one hundred and fifty episodes or two hundred episodes,

696
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:20.400
<v Speaker 2>while you've done.

697
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:24.519
<v Speaker 1>Two hundred and fifty. Okay, there you go plus Patreon. Yeah,

698
00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:28.559
<v Speaker 1>so we're probably sitting around three hundred episodes. Yeah, how

699
00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:29.400
<v Speaker 1>does that make you feel?

700
00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:31.639
<v Speaker 2>Honestly, I can't even remember what the hell I had

701
00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:34.039
<v Speaker 2>for breakfast yesterday, so like there's just no way in

702
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:35.159
<v Speaker 2>hell that I'm going to remember.

703
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:39.599
<v Speaker 1>What you're saying is you don't feel you just numb?

704
00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:43.360
<v Speaker 2>How am I numb?

705
00:38:44.199 --> 00:38:46.400
<v Speaker 1>Because I'm like, how does that make you feel? And

706
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:49.039
<v Speaker 1>you're like, I don't even remember what I had for breakfast?

707
00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Like all right, so you don't feel Oh okay, anyways,

708
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:57.320
<v Speaker 1>we're tired. Yeah, okay, we'll talk to you guys later.

709
00:38:57.360 --> 00:38:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Hopefully enjoyed this one, good one, It was good one,

710
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:01.519
<v Speaker 1>and hopefully until next time.

711
00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:04.239
<v Speaker 2>But also I just have to say, those poor kids,

712
00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:05.679
<v Speaker 2>they did not deserve that whatsoever.

713
00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:12.320
<v Speaker 1>So that's true, and description links and things and well

714
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:14.320
<v Speaker 1>this is we're an indie podcast, and.

715
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:16.800
<v Speaker 2>Can you tell? This was about as informal as it

716
00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:20.599
<v Speaker 2>fucking gets. So anyway, until next episode, stay wicked