WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.160 Welcome to when you know you know. 2 00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:05.639 And if there's one thing that I know, Michael Cohen, 3 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:09.519 is that, deep down at my very core, it's what 4 00:00:09.679 --> 00:00:13.119 happens when the full, relentless weight of the government comes 5 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:16.000 crashing down on your head. Now, most people they walk 6 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:20.760 around believing in this idealized, textbook version of the justice system. 7 00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:22.600 They think it's a balanced scale. 8 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:25.760 But let me shatter that illusion for you right now, 9 00:00:25.960 --> 00:00:29.239 because when the government decides to put you in its crosshairs, 10 00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:33.479 it isn't a legal battle. It's a steamroller and you're 11 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:37.079 the esphalt. And it doesn't matter what the initial predicate was. 12 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:41.880 It doesn't matter if the investigation started over a legitimate transgression, 13 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:47.200 a technicality, or a politically convenient pretext. Once that massive 14 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:51.439 federal estate apparatus decides that you're the target, the outcome 15 00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:57.119 feels predetermined. Government. They have bottomless pockets, unlimited personnel, and 16 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:01.200 a machine that never sleeps you. You've got a defense 17 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:04.439 attorney who charges by the minute while your bank account 18 00:01:04.519 --> 00:01:08.439 bleeds out in real time. Your life gets completely flipped 19 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:11.519 on its head, literally before you ever set foot inside 20 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:14.599 the courtroom. And the moment the news breaks, the court 21 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:17.439 of public opinion, they've already. 22 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:17.879 Passed its verdict. 23 00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:21.680 Friends you've known for decades suddenly forget how to answer 24 00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:26.000 their phones right. Business partners vanish into thin air, Your 25 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:29.840 family is subjected to microscopic scrutiny, and your entire life's 26 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:35.159 work reduced to a series of sensationalized headlines. Mind you, 27 00:01:35.359 --> 00:01:38.599 the terrifying reality of being targeted by the state is 28 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:42.159 that innocent until proven guilty, it's nothing more than acute 29 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:46.480 slogan that's printed on legal pants. In practice, the mere 30 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:50.719 existence of an indictment it's literally enough to destroy your reputation, 31 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:55.359 your livelihood, and your sanity. They bring dozens of counts, 32 00:01:55.400 --> 00:01:58.480 they stack charges on you like Djenga blocks, and they 33 00:01:58.519 --> 00:02:02.400 pressure everyone in your bit until the sheer weight forces 34 00:02:02.439 --> 00:02:06.519 a resolution. You aren't just fighting charges, uh now, you're 35 00:02:06.599 --> 00:02:10.879 fighting a narrative crafted by prosecutors who have never lost 36 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:14.719 the night's sleep over collateral damage. So when the government 37 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:17.919 decides to come after you with everything that they've got, 38 00:02:18.439 --> 00:02:20.840 you learn the hardest truth of all that you aren't 39 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:24.080 fighting to prove your innocence. You're just trying to survive 40 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.680 the process. And I'd like to welcome right now, John 41 00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:31.240 kiriaku to when you know, you know, I hope I 42 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:32.159 pronounced the last. 43 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:35.599 Name right close, kiryaku kuriak That's okay, all right, You 44 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:38.479 and I would probably need a half a day to 45 00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:40.439 talk about all these issues because. 46 00:02:40.199 --> 00:02:41.159 You mean, how to pronounce? 47 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:46.360 You have hit on so many important issues right now. 48 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:48.560 Everything you said is exactly true. 49 00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:52.800 The deck is stacked. The government has an unlimited budget. 50 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:55.240 They do these things called one of them is called 51 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:59.879 charge stacking, yep, where maybe you maybe you did do one, 52 00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:02.080 but they won't charge you with one thing. 53 00:03:02.159 --> 00:03:04.680 They'll charge you with ten or twenty felonies. 54 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:06.879 And the reason that they do it is so that 55 00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:10.520 they can turn around and add to the ultimate sentence. Right, 56 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:13.120 exactly right, If you have one charge, okay, what's the 57 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:17.199 charge going to end up being twelve months reduced down 58 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:20.560 to eight possibly out in four with good time in 59 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:24.199 the fifteen percent federal credit? Not They stack everything that 60 00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:27.120 they can. Why a fraud, bank, fraud, you name it, 61 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:30.240 across the board. Why if in fact I had gone 62 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:33.080 to shout because I pled to a one page indictment, 63 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:37.680 had I gone and followed through with the threats I 64 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:39.199 was potentially looking at? 65 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:43.400 This is no joke thirty years I was forty five years. Oh, 66 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:46.039 you were better than me, and I asked my attorneys 67 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:49.560 you win. I made a final decision. The Justice Department 68 00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:52.759 made what they called their best and final offer, which 69 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:56.599 was for three years. It was it three years, it 70 00:03:56.639 --> 00:03:59.319 was two and a half years, thirty months, and I 71 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:03.159 turned it down. And my attorneys came to my house 72 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:08.319 angrily seven o'clock in the morning, and one of them 73 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:09.520 rushed in. 74 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:12.759 And said, you stupid, sob take the deal. I said, 75 00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:14.599 you're the one who told me not to take the deal. 76 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:16.759 You're the one who told me I was innocent and 77 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:19.240 we were going to try right. And he said, I 78 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:22.240 just told you that to keep your morale up. And 79 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:25.199 then the second one said, listen, if you were my 80 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:27.920 own brother, I would ask you to take this deal, 81 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:30.439 and I'm asking you to take this deal. And then 82 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:34.360 the third attorney I had eleven, the third attorney, who 83 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:35.120 I liked and. 84 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:37.399 Respected, to your taste lest. 85 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:41.279 Year and a month, thirteen months. 86 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.160 Mine lasted forty eight hours, unbelieved. 87 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:47.959 From a Friday PM, I was told if I don't 88 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:50.600 come in and plead guilty to what they wanted me 89 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:53.319 to plead to, they were finally an eighty page indictment 90 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:54.759 that included my wife. 91 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:58.879 Seeing they threatened my wife too, and I asked one 92 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:01.439 of the attorneys, I said, if I go to trial 93 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:04.120 and I lose, what am I realistically looking at? And 94 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:08.040 he said twelve to eighteen years, take the deal, And 95 00:05:08.079 --> 00:05:10.800 so I took the deal, which ended up being twenty 96 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:14.839 three months. It infuriated the CIA and one of the attorneys. 97 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:16.720 The day before I left for prison, he pulled me aside. 98 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:19.959 He said, listen, I'm hearing that they're really mad that 99 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:22.600 you only got twenty three months, so you need to 100 00:05:22.600 --> 00:05:23.360 be very careful. 101 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:24.720 They're going to try to set you up. 102 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:26.319 Well, I beat you on that one because I got 103 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:30.920 thirty six months with thirty six months additional of supervised release. 104 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:34.120 I got the thirty six months supervised release as well. Well, 105 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:36.199 I do want to jump in because they're such dangerous 106 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:37.759 national security three. 107 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:40.600 Well, sure, I mean doing an NDA. I mean, how 108 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:43.519 is it possible right that it's only six years. I 109 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:46.199 do want to ask you this, John, because you gave 110 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:50.040 years of your life to the CIA. You caught terrorists, 111 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:53.399 you won awards, you did the job that they asked 112 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:56.720 you to do, and then the minute, literally the minute 113 00:05:56.720 --> 00:05:59.920 that you challenged the narrative on water boarding. 114 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:01.160 Because that's what this was all about. 115 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:01.680 That's right. 116 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:05.279 They came after you. When did you realize that loyalty 117 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:09.319 only works one way, that the institution will protect itself 118 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:12.079 long before it ever protects you. 119 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:13.000 You know what it was? 120 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:17.000 Before I even left the CIA, I was I was 121 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:20.600 one of fourteen people asked if I wanted to be 122 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:24.800 trained in these torture techniques, and I said, this is illegal, 123 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:28.399 besides being immoral and unethical, I'm sorry to say I 124 00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:29.920 was the only one who said no. 125 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:32.600 I'd like, can you teach me? Some of those are 126 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:34.720 some of the people that work here. They actually need 127 00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:35.720 a little bit of a lesson. 128 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:36.839 You have to get a big jug. 129 00:06:37.639 --> 00:06:39.800 I need a big jug, so a Joe, can you 130 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:40.519 get me a jug? 131 00:06:42.279 --> 00:06:44.759 So I said no, and then I got passed over 132 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:48.160 for promotion. I had just captured the number three in 133 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:50.720 Al Qaida with these two hands, and I got passed 134 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:53.040 over for promotion. So I went into the office of 135 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:55.600 the deputy Director of counter terrorism. I said, what do 136 00:06:55.639 --> 00:06:57.519 I need to do around here to get promoted? Catch 137 00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:00.680 bin Laden? And he said The direct actor said that 138 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:05.000 you displayed a shocking lack of commitment to counter terrorism 139 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:07.879 because I wouldn't be trained in the torture techniques. 140 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:11.199 I got promoted the use you with the CIA almost 141 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:12.439 fifteen oh fifteen. 142 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:13.800 That's not long enough. 143 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:17.560 I realized that this was this was a deeper split 144 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:20.959 than than met the eye at first, and so I 145 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:22.800 knew I was going to be on the other side 146 00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:25.879 of this thing. But you know, call me arrogant. I 147 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:28.199 really believed at the time, and I continue to believe 148 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:30.519 I was right and they were wrong. 149 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:32.800 And so I never waivered in my position. 150 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:37.360 Wow wow, because then they charged you under the espionage 151 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:41.839 ack over information that actually never even became public. 152 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:44.160 No, you did thirty months? 153 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:45.959 Yeah, twenty three have thirty months? 154 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.240 Well that's what the fifteen percent often the good time 155 00:07:48.279 --> 00:07:51.839 and all that. Meanwhile, people in Washington, yep, they lead 156 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:56.439 classified information every single day, literally every day. And by 157 00:07:56.439 --> 00:07:58.720 the way, Trump hates that, right, I mean, you know, 158 00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:01.720 the leakers. It's always the leaker. He hates that with 159 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:04.879 a passion. But they leak it when it helps them 160 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:07.519 with their careers. Yes, So I want to ask you, 161 00:08:08.199 --> 00:08:11.720 is this really about protecting national security or do you 162 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:15.079 think it's about making an example out of anyone who 163 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:18.480 threatens the system. They did that also, right, they did 164 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:20.120 that also to what was the name of. 165 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:23.079 Reality Winner? 166 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:26.439 Reality Winner? Yes, she took it on that chair. 167 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:26.759 You know. 168 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:29.040 I spoke to her many times, tried to help her 169 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:29.959 through the whole process. 170 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:32.720 Oh, that was generous of you. I think she's wonderful. 171 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:35.240 And you know, one of the funny things about reality 172 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:38.759 is she doesn't consider herself to be a whistleblower. 173 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:41.480 No at all. One page she hates the term. 174 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:44.399 But they came down on her like a ton of bricks, 175 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:46.360 to the point where not only did she get five 176 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:50.879 and a quarter years for leaking one page, five and 177 00:08:50.919 --> 00:08:53.080 a quarter years one page. That did no damage to 178 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:56.240 the national security, by the way, but she's still not 179 00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:58.879 allowed to leave the state of Texas, which I don't 180 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:01.879 even understand. 181 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:05.720 I don't understand it either. I didn't understand her case. 182 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:08.159 I actually don't understand your case either. 183 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:09.919 But can I interrupt you for a second. 184 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:12.240 Have you ever heard of the book Three Felonies, A 185 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:13.399 course by Harvey. 186 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:16.279 He really hits the name. 187 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:18.679 I read that while I was in solitary confinement, the 188 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:20.600 same thing. How many books did juid while you were 189 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:21.000 in prison. 190 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:22.600 You know, I actually counted them and it was an 191 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:23.240 even hundred. 192 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:25.120 I was ninety seven again. 193 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:27.480 But I was only there for thirteen months. You know, 194 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:31.080 I was fortunate COVID actually helped me because as a 195 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:35.679 result of COVID, I have co morbidities that really placed 196 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:36.399 me in jeopardy. 197 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:40.440 I was part of the first wave that was relieving. However, 198 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:41.519 they had. 199 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:44.720 To put you in solitary confinement for fourteen days, so I, 200 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:47.679 along with seven other inmates, were sent over to the 201 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:51.279 bad side because I was at Otis Fild the Low 202 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:56.360 the camp, and on day thirteen, I see all of 203 00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:00.600 the administration coming in. They have everybody signing documents. Well, 204 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:03.440 nobody's coming to mind. And by the way, unlike what 205 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:08.080 everybody thinks when you're in solitary confinement, like Shoshank Redemption, 206 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:11.600 we weren't allowed out at all. I was by myself, 207 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:14.919 you know. There I am twenty four to seven. Basically, 208 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:17.039 they feed you through the door, assuming that they even 209 00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:20.879 decide to feed you. And I'm not getting anybody coming 210 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:23.120 to me, So I'm kicking at the door. Someone comes over, 211 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:26.519 what do you want cone? So I said, what about me? 212 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:30.399 You're not getting out I said, why not, Washington pulled 213 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:30.960 back your. 214 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:32.919 File, and I said, what do you mean they pulled 215 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:33.600 back my file? 216 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:37.960 They're reviewing it. Well, how long we have no idea? Well, 217 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:39.799 then send me back now. Then you'll have to stay 218 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:42.759 another fourteen days, thirty five days. 219 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:44.080 That was the first time. I remember. 220 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.840 I got remanded the second time because I refused to 221 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:51.480 waive my First Amendment constitutional rights. I yeah, I want 222 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:53.240 to move on, and I want to ask you something. 223 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:58.759 The second that those prison gates closed, none of your 224 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:02.559 CIA credential mattered anymore. I remember when I walked into 225 00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:05.320 a little guy, Chris Anzil. He turned around. He says 226 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:08.320 to me, I don't care who you are. I said me, neither. 227 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:10.480 He goes, don't speak what I'm saying. 228 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:14.840 Okay. I'm like, you asked me a question. It's like here, 229 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:17.879 you're just eight six oh six seven daysh oh five. 230 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:21.480 Four, So okay, turn around. He's like, I just want 231 00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:25.360 to get that straight. And I was like, gradul less, buddy, 232 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:27.360 why don't you just why don't you say it a 233 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:30.399 fifth time makes you feel better? So he goes, I'll 234 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:34.440 throw you in the shoe, I'll management variable you out 235 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:36.960 of here, and I'll send you off to supermacs. 236 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:38.840 Sure they have the right to do so. 237 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:42.159 Like me, you were just another another inmate, even though 238 00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:45.120 you came in with notoriety. 239 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:47.919 Yes, because I know exactly what it feels like. 240 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:52.080 What was the biggest lesson that prison taught you about 241 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:56.000 yourself that nobody on the outside could ever understand? 242 00:11:58.039 --> 00:11:59.799 Nobody's ever asked me that question. 243 00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:01.600 Before nobody else knows what I know. 244 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:04.320 That's exactly you know, when you. 245 00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:05.960 Know that's it. 246 00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:09.080 I had no idea how tough I was. 247 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:13.039 Yeah, you know, like you, I always kind of was 248 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:14.600 one of an intellectual. 249 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:17.480 I write a lot. 250 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:22.559 I spent a lifetime in office jobs, you know, working 251 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:26.559 for important people, both of us. I didn't realize how 252 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:29.759 tough I was and how scrappy I was, even like 253 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:35.080 my then wife said to me, they've consistently underestimated your toughness. 254 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:36.039 You can do this. 255 00:12:36.759 --> 00:12:39.279 I was supposed to be in the minimum security camp, 256 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:43.320 and when I got to the prison, they started leading 257 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:46.039 me around to the back of the actual prison below 258 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:48.039 and I said, no, no, I'm supposed to be in 259 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:50.799 the camp. The guy laughs at me. He says, huh not, 260 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:54.200 according to my paperwork, you're not and I told myself, 261 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:56.559 take it easy, there's nothing you can do. 262 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:00.519 This was the CIA again. The CIA complained to Justice 263 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:01.480 that this was so. 264 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:03.240 That you were not in a low. 265 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:05.120 I was in the low, but not the camp. 266 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:07.720 Right. Oh, you were in low because I was in 267 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:09.360 the camp, right. Yeah. 268 00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:13.039 So I told myself, take it easy, there's nothing you 269 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:14.919 can do. If you say anything, they're going to put 270 00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:16.080 you in the shoe. 271 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:18.480 And so did you ever go to the shoe? No, 272 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:21.039 I did. You were very twice. 273 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:24.279 I'm lucky twice. Yeah, And they threatened it a couple 274 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:26.559 of times. I got right in the warden's face one 275 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:29.799 time and I said, Warden, with all due respect, I've 276 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:33.639 gone nose to those with al Qaeda, with Hesbala, with 277 00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:38.399 the Iranians, and I'm supposed to be afraid of you. Please, 278 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:42.240 I said, I lived in Yemen. That's a lot worse 279 00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:45.159 than your solitary in Loretto, Pennsylvania. 280 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:46.120 And he backed off. 281 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:46.600 Yeah. 282 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:52.679 Interesting because I came in in a very unusual circumstance 283 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:58.279 made me very unpopular on day one, both in the 284 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:01.519 both in the camp where I was and also on 285 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:07.080 the medium security one across Why well, as I left 286 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:12.120 my apartment, we were followed by about a dozen short orders. 287 00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:15.080 But I wasn't just followed by reporters. There were three 288 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:17.639 or four helicopters that followed us. You would think this 289 00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:21.720 was an OJH. I mean, this was insane. They actually 290 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:26.840 flew over and they were hovering over the facility where 291 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:29.759 I was at, which was called Otisville. They were, and 292 00:14:29.799 --> 00:14:33.559 that of course caused a complete and total lockdown. So no, 293 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:36.799 there was no movement on either side, first time ever, 294 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:40.840 in first time ever in Low that they or or 295 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:44.120 I should say the camp that they ever locked them 296 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:47.840 in where nobody was allowed movement until I was ultimately 297 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:52.519 finished being processed and then brought over to the camp. 298 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:56.919 And it's interesting because the administrator for the camp. 299 00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:59.720 Turned around and drove me over from. 300 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:03.519 The medium, which is where you get processed to the camp, 301 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:06.440 and he goes nobody gets driven. So I said, well, 302 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:08.919 why they drive me because the helicopters are above and 303 00:15:08.919 --> 00:15:12.360 they're trying to get a photo right, And I was like, okay, great. 304 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:15.399 I actually use that several. 305 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:17.120 Times because I had a lot of friends who were 306 00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:20.159 journalists that came to visit me a lot, and they 307 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:22.480 didn't want to allow them. So what they would do 308 00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:25.559 is they would actually shred their application to come in 309 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:28.200 and they're like, oh, that's not true. You can't say 310 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:31.679 that bullshit, all right. I know for a fact, In fact, 311 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:34.159 I saw it. I saw some of the pages that 312 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:36.279 they would do and throw into the garbage and say, 313 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:38.799 that's how stupid some of them were where they would 314 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:41.279 actually just throw it into the garbage and leave it 315 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:43.200 there because we were in and out of their office 316 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:48.679 all the time. So, I mean, the facilities are a disaster. 317 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:53.240 Disaster So we're talking before we went on the air if. 318 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:55.879 The Bureau Prisons, which now that at least I have 319 00:15:56.679 --> 00:15:59.799 re kindled a relationship with the president and I have 320 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:05.519 some access to individuals that are there. It's inhuman the 321 00:16:05.559 --> 00:16:10.080 way that they want inmates to live. The facilities are old. 322 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:14.279 They're all Butler buildings, meaning that they're metal foundations covered 323 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:19.720 by aluminum. The summers are insanely hot. There's no ventilation. Yeah, 324 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:22.840 there's no ventilations, definitively no air conditioning. And during the 325 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:25.840 winter it is brutally cold. We were three thousand feet 326 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:27.480 up in the air. We're on top of the mountain, 327 00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:31.840 forty degrees on your bed. You and I were talking 328 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:34.759 about how we slept at night during the winter. People 329 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:37.600 don't even realize what they end up doing to you. 330 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:40.879 Why don't you tell the audience, tell them what your 331 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:44.480 experience was, because it's it mirrors mind almost identically. 332 00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:47.600 It was shocking to me how cold it got in 333 00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:51.360 its housing. In it as you mentioned, you and I 334 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:54.000 both had the same experience. You have to put on 335 00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:57.799 two pairs of socks, underwear, and then long underwear. 336 00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:00.759 Thermos, your work pain or pants. 337 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:02.919 I would put on a shirt and then a sweatshirt 338 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:06.400 over the shirt, and then my winter coat and then 339 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:07.599 get under the covers. 340 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:10.440 Because you put on even less than I. 341 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:13.000 I put on my scarf, I put on our hat, 342 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:16.200 a winter hat and gloves. 343 00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:18.799 And they were wonderful. They were absolutely wonderful. 344 00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:21.720 The administration they gave us an extra blanket, which is 345 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:24.359 pretty much about the size of a piece of tissue paper. 346 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:26.079 I'll tell you I would have been happy just with 347 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:27.440 a pillow. I never got a pillow. 348 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:29.079 You didn't get And I. 349 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:30.799 Said to the unit manager, I said, hey, come you 350 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:32.960 get a pillow. I'd been there like five six days 351 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:34.960 and he says, what is this. 352 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:35.880 The f in Hilton. 353 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:37.319 Yeah, I've heard that line. Yeah. 354 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:40.519 Yeah, And so I ended up paying a guy to 355 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:41.960 make me a pillow. 356 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.799 Yeah, for a couple of macs matt bags of mackerel. 357 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:46.279 Yeah. 358 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:51.000 People don't realize, you know, how the entire system is 359 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:51.720 busted up. 360 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:53.480 It's corrupt beyond. 361 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:55.000 From the mean up to the bottom. 362 00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:57.559 Who is It's funny because the name of the group 363 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:02.279 that actually runs the ENTIREMISI and everything, it's called Bob Barker, 364 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:05.160 and everybody thinks it's the Bob Barker from the price. 365 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:05.880 Is right, it's not. 366 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:08.640 Somebody told me and I've never verified, so I'm not 367 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:11.559 even gonna say but that that individual is actually a 368 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:18.440 relative of a very well known former president. And I've 369 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:20.680 got to double check onto that one. I keep forgetting 370 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:21.480 to look it up. 371 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:22.880 But I heard that worth researching. 372 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.319 Yeah, I mean, they buy garbage at like a nickel, 373 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.279 and they're charging to some of the poorest people in America. 374 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:33.920 They're charging them five dollars for something that they're paying 375 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:36.160 a quarter for. That's right, right, I mean you want 376 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:37.480 to talk about a profit margin? 377 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:40.559 God, may I add something else. One of the things that. 378 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:44.000 I wrote about in prison that resulted in, you know, 379 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:48.599 another threat to be sent to solitary was let's say 380 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:51.799 they ordered a palette of pop tarts. 381 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:53.920 You know what, let's say pop darts were. 382 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:55.720 They weren't pop tarts, they were they. 383 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:59.759 Were the fake generic pop tarts or batteries. These crooked 384 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:03.400 CEOs would back up their Ford f one fifties to 385 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:07.079 the loading dock, steal all the pop tarts, all the batteries, 386 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:10.599 all the shampoo, A and d ointment for some reason, 387 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:13.440 and then sell it on Facebook marketplace or sell it 388 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:16.240 on eBay. And then we've got nothing in the in 389 00:19:16.279 --> 00:19:20.720 the commissary. And it was prisoner money that was supposed 390 00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:25.359 to be used, the profits from the commissary to buy equipment, Well, 391 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:27.319 all it did was buy an eight ch TV for 392 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:28.240 the guards lounge. 393 00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:31.000 If you fix exercise, and if you think that's terrible, 394 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.680 this is true. Myself and a bunch of my buddies 395 00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:39.160 we were fixing the fire hydrants game experts had well 396 00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:42.880 he was actually he was really in the industry, and 397 00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:46.319 we went ahead and we would drive around. We'd fix 398 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:50.160 all the fire extinguishers that would you know, fire hydrants 399 00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:54.319 because none of them worked. Okay, great, while we're fixing one, 400 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:56.680 a buddy of mine was working over at the warehouse, 401 00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:58.440