WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:07.519 This week's episode of the Tribecast is brought to you 2 00:00:07.559 --> 00:00:19.079 by the Texas Tribune Membership program. Hello and welcome to 3 00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:23.480 the Texas Tribune Tribcast for February tenth. I'm Eleanor Klibanoff, 4 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:26.359 joined as always by Editor in chief Matthew Watkins. 5 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:30.239 Hello there, how's it going good? You know, enjoying the 6 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:31.359 Winter Olympics. 7 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:35.560 Oh, all that entails huge Olympics heads over here? Are 8 00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:37.159 you in the Talk Olympics channel on Slack? 9 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:40.560 I am, but I have not chimed in yet. Same. 10 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:42.479 I feel like it's too embarrassing to be like in 11 00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:44.920 the middle of work, being like making it so obvious 12 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:48.560 that I'm watching the Olympics, but you know there are 13 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:52.960 on a different time zone. Well, as we've discussed frequently 14 00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:59.119 on the trip Cast, our podcast hosting demographic is pretty 15 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:01.200 firmly in the millennium category. 16 00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:02.320 We were once described as. 17 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:06.920 Being having being millennial funny, which was devastating to me. 18 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:11.079 That is a compliment. Hurt really bad. But today, as 19 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:15.200 we're going to be talking about sort of TikTok social 20 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:19.000 media influencers, online outrage, how all of that is impacting 21 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:23.079 the twenty twenty six primary elections. We are thankfully joined 22 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:28.120 by two gen Z voices. Politics reporter Kayla Guo, Hey. 23 00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:30.640 Thanks for being here as our happy to be gen 24 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:31.560 Z correspondent. 25 00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:35.040 Yes, that's me, yeah, and then democratic strategist and online 26 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:38.200 content creator Olivia Juliana Olivia, thanks for being. 27 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:39.920 Here, Thank you for having me. 28 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:45.560 Yeah, kil did you write about the influencer role? Like, 29 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:48.239 did you get selected for that story because you are 30 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:48.599 gen Z? 31 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:52.760 Now I'm thinking about it. 32 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:57.519 We got to call Jasper and right now do I 33 00:01:57.560 --> 00:02:01.359 think it probably was due to your otherwise phenomenal coverage 34 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:02.519 of that Senate race. 35 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:03.640 Yeah, what's up with that? 36 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:06.640 But okay, look, I just want to say that, like, 37 00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:08.439 I think you can write about all generations. 38 00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:12.039 Yeah, you can write about boomers, you can write about 39 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:16.919 the Silent generation, the greatest generation. But we do tap 40 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:19.840 you to write about gen Z sometimes because it would 41 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:24.240 be embarrassing otherwise for those of us who are, you know, 42 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:25.280 a little bit older. 43 00:02:25.639 --> 00:02:27.199 It's okay, you. 44 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:27.599 Know, I don't. 45 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:30.840 I am really really online though, so I really do 46 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:31.280 think I could. 47 00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:31.960 I could hack it. 48 00:02:33.319 --> 00:02:35.639 Well, let's talk. Let's take a step back and talk 49 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:37.759 about the story that you wrote. Kayla, This sort of 50 00:02:37.879 --> 00:02:41.800 drama that it bubbled up in this Democratic primary for Senate, 51 00:02:42.759 --> 00:02:44.240 and you know, I thought we're gonna take a step 52 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:46.400 back and talk about this issue more broadly, because it's 53 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:48.039 sort of a symptom maybe of. 54 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:51.159 A larger of a larger theme. But what happened here 55 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:57.199 a lot I think it was last week last week 56 00:02:57.240 --> 00:03:00.840 on Monday. A content creator. She's Dallas. Her name is 57 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:04.080 Morgan Thompson. She was previously a Tallarico supporter before Jasmine 58 00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:08.120 Crockett got into the race. She made a TikTok alleging 59 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:11.120 that in a private conversation with her, James Talerico had 60 00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:14.000 referred to Colin Allred, who was a twenty twenty four 61 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:18.039 sent a Democratic nominee who's in this race but dropped 62 00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:22.840 out as Crockett was getting in. She alleged that Talerico 63 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:26.039 referred to him as a quote mediocre black man. 64 00:03:26.759 --> 00:03:28.000 That video went viral. 65 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:30.719 She laid out some of the contexts of the lead 66 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:33.240 up to the conversation and. 67 00:03:35.479 --> 00:03:36.879 That on its. 68 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:40.039 Own would have been somewhat remarkable, like how big this 69 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:44.319 video itself got. But then of course Colin Allred waded in, 70 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:49.039 made his own selfie style direct to camera TikTok video 71 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:54.960 in which he just like ripped into tall Ico and 72 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:58.800 all but called him an outright racist indors Jasmine Crockett. 73 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:01.479 And that is, of course, when it sort of became 74 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:04.120 news for us, and when we wrote about that whole 75 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:07.520 thing going down, and Talarico's camp took a while to 76 00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:10.599 respond that day, Talerico said it was a mischaracterization of 77 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:13.680 what he had said. He had referred to Alread's campaigning 78 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:17.120 as mediocre, but would never you know, attack him on 79 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:20.839 the basis of race, is what his statement said. But 80 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:23.759 that was really that whole blow up was kind of 81 00:04:23.800 --> 00:04:26.920 a culmination of what had been going on for weeks 82 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:32.800 on x threads, TikTok instagram of just a lot of 83 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:36.480 people chiming in with really strong takes one way or 84 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:39.759 another on this race and becoming sort of a battle 85 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:42.240 between these two camps, even though the candidates themselves have 86 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:44.879 sort of stayed out of the fray. And so this 87 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:48.240 was really just like the blow up and you know, 88 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:53.120 peak of this long simmering hostility before. 89 00:04:52.839 --> 00:04:55.720 We started get into that you know, broader context. I mean, Olivia, 90 00:04:55.759 --> 00:04:59.480 you were watching this unfold, what were you making of this? 91 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:04.439 As a may I say, very online democrat. 92 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:08.759 Yeah, you know. I My inclination obviously always is to 93 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:11.160 look at things as a very online Democrat. But I 94 00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:14.759 was also looking at this through the lens of I 95 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:18.240 am a twenty three year old voter who lives here 96 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:20.000 in the state of Texas and who will have to 97 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:24.000 cast a vote in this primary election, and who, like 98 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:26.839 I've known all three of these people in this story 99 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:30.199 since twenty twenty one, when I started at like seventeen 100 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:33.839 years old, and so seeing all of this play out, 101 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:38.240 I had many thoughts. First thing was, if you just 102 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:42.680 flashed back to the twenty twenty four Senate campaign, seeing 103 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.079 these two people James Talerico and Jasmon Crockett, who were 104 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:50.680 like very visible surrogates for Colin all Red, now entrenched 105 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:55.160 in this I would almost say proxy war through these 106 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:58.399 different online factions and not through the things that came 107 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:02.800 out of their own mouth. It was very different than 108 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:08.600 what we've seen in Texas before because of the severity 109 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:12.240 and the volume of it. There was very similar chatter 110 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:16.079 to this in division like this during the twenty twenty 111 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:20.360 four Democratic primary between Roland Gutierres and Colinel Red, but 112 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:23.120 it was much more insulated to people who were very 113 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:26.839 hyper online in Texas whereas this, and I think it's 114 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:31.240 because Jasmine Crockett is such a renowned national figure really 115 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:36.199 broke out into like national online conversation, and I think 116 00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:38.560 that's because of her, but also because James Talerico is 117 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:40.480 a social media star in his own right. Like I 118 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:42.720 don't think I can name any other state rep in 119 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:46.120 the country who has over a million followers on Instagram. 120 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:48.920 And so I'm just kind of watching all of this unfold, 121 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:53.279 and the two main thoughts that I had were, God, 122 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:56.120 it's always Texas, isn't it. It's always Texas. 123 00:06:58.000 --> 00:06:58.680 Business, Yes. 124 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:02.680 And the secondary thing was, I think it's just a 125 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:07.160 reminder of how powerful social media has become an influencing 126 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:12.120 political conversation, because even if you know these these posts 127 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:17.480 aren't reaching a significant percentage of primary election voters, you know, 128 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:20.399 the Texas Tribune is reaching a pretty significant percentage of 129 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:23.959 primary electorate voters. And now, like you all have written 130 00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:27.439 articles about this, so like it is something that's breaking through, 131 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:30.600 whether it be on social media or because of the 132 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:33.959 traditional press coverage that comes from these incidents happening on 133 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:35.079 social media. 134 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:37.000 Olivia, I want to ask. 135 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:41.920 You, I appreciate you saying that I'm curious about the 136 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:45.240 Text Tribune reaching a large number of voters. I'm curious though, 137 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:49.439 as someone who I feel like is smart enough to 138 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:52.279 observe this and be like, Wow, this is really important 139 00:07:52.279 --> 00:07:54.279 and meaningful and says a lot, not just about this 140 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:57.240 race but where politics is going. But maybe someone who's 141 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:00.800 not smart enough to know exactly what it means. I'm 142 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:06.839 curious whether you think this is a bad sign or 143 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:08.360 a good sign for the primary. 144 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:11.160 Do you mean, like the average person who comes across. 145 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:13.720 It, Well, just that this is happening, right, Because what 146 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:15.839 you're I'm talking about myself not being. 147 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:19.639 Smart enough to like this is happening is something. 148 00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:24.720 But yeah, I don't. Yeah, And I think what I'm 149 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:28.839 what I'm trying to gauge here is a it's a 150 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:31.720 sign of division and like some hard feelings in this 151 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:34.039 and I can see how that could be frustrating for 152 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:36.120 someone who cares about the party and where it's going. 153 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:39.519 On the other side hand, it suggests a level of 154 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:43.039 engagement in this race and a level of like emotional 155 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:46.720 excitement and feeling about these two candidates that is pretty 156 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:51.360 rare in Texas, at least for a statewide race, and 157 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:56.080 you know, I could make the argument of, like, the 158 00:08:56.080 --> 00:09:00.799 fact that these fights are happening is an indication that 159 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:03.600 there's a level of excitement that could be really good 160 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:04.639 for Democrats. 161 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:04.799 All the trust. 162 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:08.279 Yeah, well, yeah exactly. I mean, how do you sort 163 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:13.039 of evaluate that calculus? 164 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.240 Yeah, I mean, I think I think this being a 165 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:19.600 good or bad thing, It really depends on which which 166 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:22.120 candidate you are and which campaign you're in. You know, 167 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:24.840 if you're Collin all Read, this is the most social 168 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:27.519 media engagement I think he's gotten. He was the Senate 169 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:31.200 candidate in twenty twenty four, Peace and love, you know 170 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:37.960 much respec to Harpressman already. You know, if you're James Tallerico, 171 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:41.159 this is a really bad situation for you to be in, 172 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:45.360 because he surged in this primary very early on. You know, 173 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:48.799 his largest fundraising day of that quarter was the day 174 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:52.240 that Jasmine Crockett launched her campaign, which I think is 175 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:54.759 a pretty clear indicator that, you know, she's she's a 176 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:57.960 very polarizing figure, and that kind of pushed a lot 177 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:00.720 of people who may not necessarily like her style of 178 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:05.919 politics to inadvertently support James Talerico. But you know, if 179 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:09.360 you're a Jasmine Crockett. You're someone who you were down 180 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:11.639 at a couple of polls. You haven't been able to 181 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:16.159 match taler Rico's fundraising numbers, you haven't been able to 182 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:18.360 put up as many TV ads or do as many 183 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:23.919 advis Like now you have a lot of organic, unpaid 184 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:30.200 media attention happening amongst highly engaged people who live inside 185 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:34.360 of Texas and outside of Texas, which is important for 186 00:10:34.519 --> 00:10:37.559 you know, your volunteer base, it's important for phone banking, 187 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:41.399 it's important for door knocking, and most importantly, it's happening 188 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:44.320 a week two weeks out from the start of early voting. 189 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:47.519 And so you know, as all of this has happened, 190 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:51.720 she's gained momentum and tall Rico has lost it. And 191 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:54.879 you know, if you're him, you already have the disadvantage 192 00:10:54.919 --> 00:10:57.360 of not only are you having to spend money to 193 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:01.360 tell people who you are are, but also to bring 194 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:03.519 people out to vote, whereas her name idea is high 195 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:06.840 enough the people already know. So now, like all of 196 00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:09.960 this I think has been really good for the energy 197 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:14.000 of her campaign because I think it is really in 198 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:16.559 vague well, I don't think I know from the conversations 199 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:20.120 I've had with pro Jasmin Crockett influencers, like this is 200 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.120 very very energizing to them, and like they are ready 201 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:28.320 to like hit the pavement to help her win this 202 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:31.840 primary versus a lot of the pro James Tallerico influencers 203 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:35.039 who I know are a little bit more hesitant to 204 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:38.759 post positive things about his campaign that they otherwise would 205 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:43.759 have because of how controversial this primary has become. Kayla. 206 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:46.639 I mean, these are people who have been they as 207 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:48.559 you noted in your story, right, they both sort of 208 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:52.919 rose to prominence through going viral, through like grabbing these moments. 209 00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:55.759 But I would argue in like sort of very different ways, right, 210 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:58.720 I mean, I think the repose of Crockett is like 211 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:03.480 known for these like very sort of huge flashpoint moments, 212 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:07.720 like sort of like the clapback style really like aggressively 213 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:11.480 calling out Republicans and you know, and then tell Rico 214 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:14.559 is sort of doing this more you know, the pastor 215 00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:18.320 the peace and love thing, the you know running this 216 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:23.000 through this are you like slightly more low key god 217 00:12:23.159 --> 00:12:29.200 and good manners pitch? I mean, how this has all 218 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:31.840 played out seems sort of in line with that. I 219 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:34.639 think people the tall Rico thing. Part of why I 220 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:38.519 think this broke out of containment is like this allegation 221 00:12:38.679 --> 00:12:42.000 is so at odds with his public persona. I mean, 222 00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:45.759 how much of this is just a consequence of all 223 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:48.799 of this being everyone involved being very online. 224 00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:51.200 I mean I think, yeah, I think the fact that 225 00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:53.919 there has been so much just scurse. Like Olivia said one, 226 00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:59.360 both of them have such huge profiles, obviously Jasmine Crockett 227 00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:02.679 more than Teleco, but are so known online. And I 228 00:13:02.679 --> 00:13:07.759 think people do form somewhat like parasocial relationships with anyone 229 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:10.559 who they think is like fighting for them or is 230 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:14.480 aligned with them. Is this breakout star in politics that 231 00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:17.240 they maybe can we'll get to vote for one day? 232 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:21.840 And yeah, I think people like really latch onto figures 233 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:24.960 like Jasmine Crockett, like James Halerico, given their you know, 234 00:13:25.399 --> 00:13:28.120 how visible and online they are. And I do think 235 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:34.399 that that has deepened sort of like this particular conflict 236 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:37.519 and made it all the more you know, hostile and 237 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:39.360 people in trench in both camps. 238 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:44.600 But Olivia, you were quoted in Kyla's story saying we 239 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:46.440 would all do a lot of good if every once 240 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:49.559 in a while we realized social media is not real life, right, 241 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:54.120 And then you also said earlier a little surprised me, 242 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:56.440 Like one of the ideas that this is a concern 243 00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:59.799 is that it has broken through into traditional media like 244 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:03.000 US or the Associated Press or all the other media 245 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:04.919 that has written about this in recent times. 246 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:06.840 And I guess, like I'm a little. 247 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:11.519 Bit surprised to hear that, right, because I mean, I 248 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:14.279 I you know, many of the people on social media, 249 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:17.159 myself included, agree that maybe it would be good for 250 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:20.120 us to like at times turn it off a little bit. 251 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:22.559 But I mean, I feel like one of the things 252 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:26.600 that this campaign is testing is the idea of, like 253 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:32.279 is social media the dominant sort of political like place 254 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:35.039 for conversation right now in a way that like it 255 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:37.840 doesn't matter if it's being discussed everywhere, if it's being 256 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:41.120 discussed on social media, it makes a big difference. And 257 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:43.799 I mean another part of this is just there's been 258 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:46.480 some reporting, some concerns out there right now about the 259 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:50.720 lack of spending by Jasmine Crockett on you know, television 260 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:52.720 the most of the traditional place where you sort of 261 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:54.080 get your ads out right now. 262 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:56.879 And I'm curious whether you think. 263 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:01.240 Like that matters at all, Like, do do we are 264 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:07.000 we all sort of still judging this by the wrong metrics. 265 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:11.000 Yeah, I think I think in a post twenty twenty 266 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:13.879 four world, I think everyone is very quick to make 267 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:18.320 snap judgments about social media and how it's effective or 268 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:20.240 how it's ineffective. I've seen a lot of people give 269 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:25.159 like really haphazard you know, analysis about well, what should 270 00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:28.120 we do instead, and like, I actually don't think that 271 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:32.159 this race is the best test on you know, is 272 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:35.240 it worth it to spend on traditional advertising versus social 273 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:38.200 media because we don't have we do not have two 274 00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:41.440 traditional you know, candidates going up against each other, Like 275 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:46.120 Jasmine Crockett could spend zero dollars in this race and 276 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:49.720 still have more name ID than James Tellergo. So if 277 00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:52.600 even if you don't see anything on social media or 278 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:56.039 on television and you go into that voting booth during 279 00:15:56.039 --> 00:15:59.200 the primary election, there's still going to be a significantly 280 00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:01.840 larger number of people who know who she is who 281 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:04.879 have no idea who he is. And so I actually 282 00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:07.000 don't think that this race is the best place to 283 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:10.360 kind of draw that conclusion. What I will say is 284 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:16.519 I think that their electoral theories of change very closely 285 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:21.600 mirror their social media strategies. Jasmine Crockett is her arguments 286 00:16:21.639 --> 00:16:23.399 have consistently been about, you know, we need to turn 287 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:26.360 out base voters. We need to energize the base of 288 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:28.840 people here in Texas who are not voting or who 289 00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:31.320 have voted before and have chosen not to vote in 290 00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:34.360 twenty twenty four or in the you know, twenty twenty 291 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:37.840 five down ballot elections. Versus James Salarico, whose argument is, 292 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:39.159 you know, we need to have a big tent, we 293 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:41.720 need to bring it independence, we need to persuade people. 294 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:45.240 And I think the social media content and spaces that 295 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:47.480 they've been in and the people who have been speaking 296 00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.639 out in support of them kind of mirror this strategy 297 00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:53.679 really well. You see Jasmine doing a lot of social 298 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:57.000 media collaborations or being defended a lot by people like 299 00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:01.240 Elizabeth Booker, Houston, Kenny wald In, Like, these are people 300 00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:07.880 who are really known for being hardline democratic political content 301 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:12.880 creators who are pretty decently well known among a large 302 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:17.039 a large number of primary voters generally around the country. 303 00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:20.319 You know, these are political influencers. Versus James Talerico. You know, 304 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.839 you see him and he's doing more of his own 305 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:25.559 content creation stuff, but he's also reaching out to more 306 00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:28.759 non traditional political spaces. You know, he was on Joe 307 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:32.200 Rogan last year. You know, he went on Ezra Clent's 308 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:35.440 podcast to talk about Jesus. Like, he's doing a lot 309 00:17:35.480 --> 00:17:40.119 of different things that you don't see candidates traditionally doing 310 00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:43.039 when they're trying to use social media in a political way. 311 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:48.680 And I think that the true test will come not 312 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:51.599 necessarily from is she spending money on TV or she's 313 00:17:51.640 --> 00:17:53.839 not spending on money on TV. I think a true 314 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:58.680 test will be which one of these social media theories works. 315 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:02.680 Is it appealing to the base of online primary voters 316 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:05.720 who you know are going to show up to the primary, 317 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:09.519 who you know are highly engaged, or is it trying 318 00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:13.359 to add people to the primary electorate and persuade people 319 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:16.920 to become Democratic primary voters who traditionally may not have 320 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:18.839 been involved in those elections. 321 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:23.079 I mean, looking ahead to the general, where one of 322 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:26.519 these two people will inevitably be running against one of 323 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:30.920 two other people, maybe current Senator John Cornyn or Attorney 324 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:35.240 General Ken Paxton. I mean, how does and how does 325 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:37.400 all of this shift when we start looking at a general. 326 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:40.559 I mean this we've currently democratic infighting that will all 327 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:44.559 sort of miraculously disappear on March fourth and we'll all 328 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:49.160 go back to being friends. And then now suddenly you 329 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:51.559 are trying to reach a much wider swath of the 330 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:54.799 electorate with a much typically like I think, more moderate 331 00:18:56.359 --> 00:19:01.000 platform on a lot more sort of different venues. So 332 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:06.680 I'm curious, like how you see this shifting the campaign 333 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:09.079 strategy shifting going into a general. 334 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:13.680 Well, uh, you know, first and foremost, I think it's 335 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:16.720 gonna be really dependent on who the Republican candidate is 336 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:20.559 because the social media strategy of whoever it is is 337 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:24.440 going to be very different. Then, you know, like John 338 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:27.359 corn and social media strategy is I feel, and in 339 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:29.680 the instance of him, it's very much so you cannot 340 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:33.000 teach an old dog Nutrix. Like it is very clear 341 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:35.720 he is not comfortable with social media. His team does 342 00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:36.880 not really understand it. 343 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:37.759 Uh. 344 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:41.079 You know, Wesley Hunt is doing his best. He's he's 345 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:43.920 trying to lean into the rage bait content of it. 346 00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:47.000 But you know, Ken Paxton, ultimately, when it comes to 347 00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:50.200 social media, I would say that Ken Paxton and Jazz 348 00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:54.000 mccrockett are probably like a perfect inverse of each other 349 00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:58.119 when it comes to engaging and enraging people on social 350 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:01.400 media and getting a reaction. And and you know, social 351 00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:05.720 media algorithms don't measure feelings. They don't know how you 352 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:08.720 feel or what your opinion is when you make a post. 353 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:13.200 All that it measures is velocity and volume. And so 354 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:16.880 if you're someone like Ken Paxon or Jasmin Crockett, who 355 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:20.519 is known for getting very strong reactions out of people, 356 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:23.440 when you make a post on social media, you're likely 357 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.240 to get that strong reaction from people on the left 358 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:29.440 and on the right. And when you get that combination 359 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:33.400 of reaction from both sides, that can catapult you to 360 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:36.799 reach those people on the periphery who are not necessarily political. 361 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:40.279 And those people on the periphery are the ones that 362 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:42.920 are the reason why Donald Trump won the twenty twenty 363 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:46.279 four election because they were getting reached in those spaces. 364 00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:48.200 So I think if this were going to be a 365 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:53.400 true like brawl in non traditional voters who are getting 366 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:57.319 their information on social media, the Ken Paxton Jasmin crocket lineup, 367 00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:00.000 I think we are going to see a social media 368 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.440 be a war waged in this state you've never ever 369 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:07.519 seen before. I genuinely believe this could be like presidential 370 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:10.279 level engagement numbers from these two just because of how 371 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:14.279 polarizing and cutthroat they both really are, you know, Versus 372 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:17.680 if it's someone like James Tallerco, that's just not his style. 373 00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:19.720 Like you're I don't think you're ever gonna see James 374 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:25.440 taal Erco call Ken Paxton and an adulterist fraud, which, 375 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:29.000 like frankly he should, but like it's just I don't 376 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:31.119 think the engagement is going to be the same now. 377 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:33.079 I do think that there are a lot of people 378 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:38.119 out there who are these more you know, mild mannered, uh, 379 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:44.400 moderate voter moderate independence traditionally like Reagan Romney Republicans who 380 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:47.720 do exist in Texas, who probably would vote for John 381 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:52.559 Cornyan in a primary, who if Ken Paxon is the nominee, Uh, 382 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:55.720 there's a really strong chance that they could end up 383 00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:58.960 voting for James Talerco. I think the only person in 384 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:02.880 this scenario who really is a wild card is Wesley 385 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:06.480 Hunt if for some reason he wins the primary, which 386 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:10.000 I do not find to be particularly likely. I think 387 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.079 that that really is the only unknown scenario of how 388 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:17.599 this is going to play out on social media before. 389 00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:17.680 We move on. 390 00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:19.079 I do just want to take a quick break to 391 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:21.799 say that Tribcast is made possible by members of the 392 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:26.200 Texas Tribune this election season. Help ensure every Texan has 393 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:29.559 access to trusted information about what's on the ballot and 394 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:33.359 why it matters. Together, we can help Texans vote with confidence. 395 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:38.960 Join us at Texastribune dot org slash donate. I mean, 396 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:41.160 I do want to sort of revisit this idea of 397 00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:44.200 just these I think in many ways and this is 398 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:49.039 not a unique thought, like the Republican and Democratic primaries 399 00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:51.799 in this race are sort of, like you said, in 400 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:54.559 verses of each other. Right, You've got a like polarizing 401 00:22:55.079 --> 00:23:00.680