Speaker 1: This week's episode of the Tribecast is brought to you
by the Texas Tribune Membership program. Hello and welcome to
the Texas Tribune Tribcast for February tenth. I'm Eleanor Klibanoff,
joined as always by Editor in chief Matthew Watkins.
Speaker 2: Hello there, how's it going good? You know, enjoying the
Winter Olympics.
Speaker 1: Oh, all that entails huge Olympics heads over here? Are
you in the Talk Olympics channel on Slack?
Speaker 2: I am, but I have not chimed in yet. Same.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's too embarrassing to be like in
the middle of work, being like making it so obvious
that I'm watching the Olympics, but you know there are
on a different time zone. Well, as we've discussed frequently
on the trip Cast, our podcast hosting demographic is pretty
firmly in the millennium category.
Speaker 2: We were once described as.
Speaker 1: Being having being millennial funny, which was devastating to me.
That is a compliment. Hurt really bad. But today, as
we're going to be talking about sort of TikTok social
media influencers, online outrage, how all of that is impacting
the twenty twenty six primary elections. We are thankfully joined
by two gen Z voices. Politics reporter Kayla Guo, Hey.
Speaker 3: Thanks for being here as our happy to be gen
Z correspondent.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's me, yeah, and then democratic strategist and online
content creator Olivia Juliana Olivia, thanks for being.
Speaker 4: Here, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 5: Yeah, kil did you write about the influencer role? Like,
did you get selected for that story because you are
gen Z?
Speaker 3: Now I'm thinking about it.
Speaker 1: We got to call Jasper and right now do I
think it probably was due to your otherwise phenomenal coverage
of that Senate race.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's up with that?
Speaker 5: But okay, look, I just want to say that, like,
I think you can write about all generations.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can write about boomers, you can write about
the Silent generation, the greatest generation. But we do tap
you to write about gen Z sometimes because it would
be embarrassing otherwise for those of us who are, you know,
a little bit older.
Speaker 3: It's okay, you.
Speaker 2: Know, I don't.
Speaker 1: I am really really online though, so I really do
think I could.
Speaker 2: I could hack it.
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk. Let's take a step back and talk
about the story that you wrote. Kayla, This sort of
drama that it bubbled up in this Democratic primary for Senate,
and you know, I thought we're gonna take a step
back and talk about this issue more broadly, because it's
sort of a symptom maybe of.
Speaker 3: A larger of a larger theme. But what happened here
a lot I think it was last week last week
on Monday. A content creator. She's Dallas. Her name is
Morgan Thompson. She was previously a Tallarico supporter before Jasmine
Crockett got into the race. She made a TikTok alleging
that in a private conversation with her, James Talerico had
referred to Colin Allred, who was a twenty twenty four
sent a Democratic nominee who's in this race but dropped
out as Crockett was getting in. She alleged that Talerico
referred to him as a quote mediocre black man.
Speaker 2: That video went viral.
Speaker 3: She laid out some of the contexts of the lead
up to the conversation and.
Speaker 2: That on its.
Speaker 3: Own would have been somewhat remarkable, like how big this
video itself got. But then of course Colin Allred waded in,
made his own selfie style direct to camera TikTok video
in which he just like ripped into tall Ico and
all but called him an outright racist indors Jasmine Crockett.
And that is, of course, when it sort of became
news for us, and when we wrote about that whole
thing going down, and Talarico's camp took a while to
respond that day, Talerico said it was a mischaracterization of
what he had said. He had referred to Alread's campaigning
as mediocre, but would never you know, attack him on
the basis of race, is what his statement said. But
that was really that whole blow up was kind of
a culmination of what had been going on for weeks
on x threads, TikTok instagram of just a lot of
people chiming in with really strong takes one way or
another on this race and becoming sort of a battle
between these two camps, even though the candidates themselves have
sort of stayed out of the fray. And so this
was really just like the blow up and you know,
peak of this long simmering hostility before.
Speaker 1: We started get into that you know, broader context. I mean, Olivia,
you were watching this unfold, what were you making of this?
As a may I say, very online democrat.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know. I My inclination obviously always is to
look at things as a very online Democrat. But I
was also looking at this through the lens of I
am a twenty three year old voter who lives here
in the state of Texas and who will have to
cast a vote in this primary election, and who, like
I've known all three of these people in this story
since twenty twenty one, when I started at like seventeen
years old, and so seeing all of this play out,
I had many thoughts. First thing was, if you just
flashed back to the twenty twenty four Senate campaign, seeing
these two people James Talerico and Jasmon Crockett, who were
like very visible surrogates for Colin all Red, now entrenched
in this I would almost say proxy war through these
different online factions and not through the things that came
out of their own mouth. It was very different than
what we've seen in Texas before because of the severity
and the volume of it. There was very similar chatter
to this in division like this during the twenty twenty
four Democratic primary between Roland Gutierres and Colinel Red, but
it was much more insulated to people who were very
hyper online in Texas whereas this, and I think it's
because Jasmine Crockett is such a renowned national figure really
broke out into like national online conversation, and I think
that's because of her, but also because James Talerico is
a social media star in his own right. Like I
don't think I can name any other state rep in
the country who has over a million followers on Instagram.
And so I'm just kind of watching all of this unfold,
and the two main thoughts that I had were, God,
it's always Texas, isn't it. It's always Texas.
Speaker 2: Business, Yes.
Speaker 4: And the secondary thing was, I think it's just a
reminder of how powerful social media has become an influencing
political conversation, because even if you know these these posts
aren't reaching a significant percentage of primary election voters, you know,
the Texas Tribune is reaching a pretty significant percentage of
primary electorate voters. And now, like you all have written
articles about this, so like it is something that's breaking through,
whether it be on social media or because of the
traditional press coverage that comes from these incidents happening on
social media.
Speaker 2: Olivia, I want to ask.
Speaker 5: You, I appreciate you saying that I'm curious about the
Text Tribune reaching a large number of voters. I'm curious though,
as someone who I feel like is smart enough to
observe this and be like, Wow, this is really important
and meaningful and says a lot, not just about this
race but where politics is going. But maybe someone who's
not smart enough to know exactly what it means. I'm
curious whether you think this is a bad sign or
a good sign for the primary.
Speaker 1: Do you mean, like the average person who comes across.
Speaker 5: It, Well, just that this is happening, right, Because what
you're I'm talking about myself not being.
Speaker 1: Smart enough to like this is happening is something.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I don't. Yeah, And I think what I'm
what I'm trying to gauge here is a it's a
sign of division and like some hard feelings in this
and I can see how that could be frustrating for
someone who cares about the party and where it's going.
On the other side hand, it suggests a level of
engagement in this race and a level of like emotional
excitement and feeling about these two candidates that is pretty
rare in Texas, at least for a statewide race, and
you know, I could make the argument of, like, the
fact that these fights are happening is an indication that
there's a level of excitement that could be really good
for Democrats.
Speaker 2: All the trust.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, yeah exactly. I mean, how do you sort
of evaluate that calculus?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think I think this being a
good or bad thing, It really depends on which which
candidate you are and which campaign you're in. You know,
if you're Collin all Read, this is the most social
media engagement I think he's gotten. He was the Senate
candidate in twenty twenty four, Peace and love, you know
much respec to Harpressman already. You know, if you're James Tallerico,
this is a really bad situation for you to be in,
because he surged in this primary very early on. You know,
his largest fundraising day of that quarter was the day
that Jasmine Crockett launched her campaign, which I think is
a pretty clear indicator that, you know, she's she's a
very polarizing figure, and that kind of pushed a lot
of people who may not necessarily like her style of
politics to inadvertently support James Talerico. But you know, if
you're a Jasmine Crockett. You're someone who you were down
at a couple of polls. You haven't been able to
match taler Rico's fundraising numbers, you haven't been able to
put up as many TV ads or do as many
advis Like now you have a lot of organic, unpaid
media attention happening amongst highly engaged people who live inside
of Texas and outside of Texas, which is important for
you know, your volunteer base, it's important for phone banking,
it's important for door knocking, and most importantly, it's happening
a week two weeks out from the start of early voting.
And so you know, as all of this has happened,
she's gained momentum and tall Rico has lost it. And
you know, if you're him, you already have the disadvantage
of not only are you having to spend money to
tell people who you are are, but also to bring
people out to vote, whereas her name idea is high
enough the people already know. So now, like all of
this I think has been really good for the energy
of her campaign because I think it is really in
vague well, I don't think I know from the conversations
I've had with pro Jasmin Crockett influencers, like this is
very very energizing to them, and like they are ready
to like hit the pavement to help her win this
primary versus a lot of the pro James Tallerico influencers
who I know are a little bit more hesitant to
post positive things about his campaign that they otherwise would
have because of how controversial this primary has become. Kayla.
Speaker 1: I mean, these are people who have been they as
you noted in your story, right, they both sort of
rose to prominence through going viral, through like grabbing these moments.
But I would argue in like sort of very different ways, right,
I mean, I think the repose of Crockett is like
known for these like very sort of huge flashpoint moments,
like sort of like the clapback style really like aggressively
calling out Republicans and you know, and then tell Rico
is sort of doing this more you know, the pastor
the peace and love thing, the you know running this
through this are you like slightly more low key god
and good manners pitch? I mean, how this has all
played out seems sort of in line with that. I
think people the tall Rico thing. Part of why I
think this broke out of containment is like this allegation
is so at odds with his public persona. I mean,
how much of this is just a consequence of all
of this being everyone involved being very online.
Speaker 3: I mean I think, yeah, I think the fact that
there has been so much just scurse. Like Olivia said one,
both of them have such huge profiles, obviously Jasmine Crockett
more than Teleco, but are so known online. And I
think people do form somewhat like parasocial relationships with anyone
who they think is like fighting for them or is
aligned with them. Is this breakout star in politics that
they maybe can we'll get to vote for one day?
And yeah, I think people like really latch onto figures
like Jasmine Crockett, like James Halerico, given their you know,
how visible and online they are. And I do think
that that has deepened sort of like this particular conflict
and made it all the more you know, hostile and
people in trench in both camps.
Speaker 5: But Olivia, you were quoted in Kyla's story saying we
would all do a lot of good if every once
in a while we realized social media is not real life, right,
And then you also said earlier a little surprised me,
Like one of the ideas that this is a concern
is that it has broken through into traditional media like
US or the Associated Press or all the other media
that has written about this in recent times.
Speaker 2: And I guess, like I'm a little.
Speaker 5: Bit surprised to hear that, right, because I mean, I
I you know, many of the people on social media,
myself included, agree that maybe it would be good for
us to like at times turn it off a little bit.
But I mean, I feel like one of the things
that this campaign is testing is the idea of, like
is social media the dominant sort of political like place
for conversation right now in a way that like it
doesn't matter if it's being discussed everywhere, if it's being
discussed on social media, it makes a big difference. And
I mean another part of this is just there's been
some reporting, some concerns out there right now about the
lack of spending by Jasmine Crockett on you know, television
the most of the traditional place where you sort of
get your ads out right now.
Speaker 2: And I'm curious whether you think.
Speaker 5: Like that matters at all, Like, do do we are
we all sort of still judging this by the wrong metrics.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I think in a post twenty twenty
four world, I think everyone is very quick to make
snap judgments about social media and how it's effective or
how it's ineffective. I've seen a lot of people give
like really haphazard you know, analysis about well, what should
we do instead, and like, I actually don't think that
this race is the best test on you know, is
it worth it to spend on traditional advertising versus social
media because we don't have we do not have two
traditional you know, candidates going up against each other, Like
Jasmine Crockett could spend zero dollars in this race and
still have more name ID than James Tellergo. So if
even if you don't see anything on social media or
on television and you go into that voting booth during
the primary election, there's still going to be a significantly
larger number of people who know who she is who
have no idea who he is. And so I actually
don't think that this race is the best place to
kind of draw that conclusion. What I will say is
I think that their electoral theories of change very closely
mirror their social media strategies. Jasmine Crockett is her arguments
have consistently been about, you know, we need to turn
out base voters. We need to energize the base of
people here in Texas who are not voting or who
have voted before and have chosen not to vote in
twenty twenty four or in the you know, twenty twenty
five down ballot elections. Versus James Salarico, whose argument is,
you know, we need to have a big tent, we
need to bring it independence, we need to persuade people.
And I think the social media content and spaces that
they've been in and the people who have been speaking
out in support of them kind of mirror this strategy
really well. You see Jasmine doing a lot of social
media collaborations or being defended a lot by people like
Elizabeth Booker, Houston, Kenny wald In, Like, these are people
who are really known for being hardline democratic political content
creators who are pretty decently well known among a large
a large number of primary voters generally around the country.
You know, these are political influencers. Versus James Talerico. You know,
you see him and he's doing more of his own
content creation stuff, but he's also reaching out to more
non traditional political spaces. You know, he was on Joe
Rogan last year. You know, he went on Ezra Clent's
podcast to talk about Jesus. Like, he's doing a lot
of different things that you don't see candidates traditionally doing
when they're trying to use social media in a political way.
And I think that the true test will come not
necessarily from is she spending money on TV or she's
not spending on money on TV. I think a true
test will be which one of these social media theories works.
Is it appealing to the base of online primary voters
who you know are going to show up to the primary,
who you know are highly engaged, or is it trying
to add people to the primary electorate and persuade people
to become Democratic primary voters who traditionally may not have
been involved in those elections.
Speaker 1: I mean, looking ahead to the general, where one of
these two people will inevitably be running against one of
two other people, maybe current Senator John Cornyn or Attorney
General Ken Paxton. I mean, how does and how does
all of this shift when we start looking at a general.
I mean this we've currently democratic infighting that will all
sort of miraculously disappear on March fourth and we'll all
go back to being friends. And then now suddenly you
are trying to reach a much wider swath of the
electorate with a much typically like I think, more moderate
platform on a lot more sort of different venues. So
I'm curious, like how you see this shifting the campaign
strategy shifting going into a general.
Speaker 4: Well, uh, you know, first and foremost, I think it's
gonna be really dependent on who the Republican candidate is
because the social media strategy of whoever it is is
going to be very different. Then, you know, like John
corn and social media strategy is I feel, and in
the instance of him, it's very much so you cannot
teach an old dog Nutrix. Like it is very clear
he is not comfortable with social media. His team does
not really understand it.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 4: You know, Wesley Hunt is doing his best. He's he's
trying to lean into the rage bait content of it.
But you know, Ken Paxton, ultimately, when it comes to
social media, I would say that Ken Paxton and Jazz
mccrockett are probably like a perfect inverse of each other
when it comes to engaging and enraging people on social
media and getting a reaction. And and you know, social
media algorithms don't measure feelings. They don't know how you
feel or what your opinion is when you make a post.
All that it measures is velocity and volume. And so
if you're someone like Ken Paxon or Jasmin Crockett, who
is known for getting very strong reactions out of people,
when you make a post on social media, you're likely
to get that strong reaction from people on the left
and on the right. And when you get that combination
of reaction from both sides, that can catapult you to
reach those people on the periphery who are not necessarily political.
And those people on the periphery are the ones that
are the reason why Donald Trump won the twenty twenty
four election because they were getting reached in those spaces.
So I think if this were going to be a
true like brawl in non traditional voters who are getting
their information on social media, the Ken Paxton Jasmin crocket lineup,
I think we are going to see a social media
be a war waged in this state you've never ever
seen before. I genuinely believe this could be like presidential
level engagement numbers from these two just because of how
polarizing and cutthroat they both really are, you know, Versus
if it's someone like James Tallerco, that's just not his style.
Like you're I don't think you're ever gonna see James
taal Erco call Ken Paxton and an adulterist fraud, which,
like frankly he should, but like it's just I don't
think the engagement is going to be the same now.
I do think that there are a lot of people
out there who are these more you know, mild mannered, uh,
moderate voter moderate independence traditionally like Reagan Romney Republicans who
do exist in Texas, who probably would vote for John
Cornyan in a primary, who if Ken Paxon is the nominee, Uh,
there's a really strong chance that they could end up
voting for James Talerco. I think the only person in
this scenario who really is a wild card is Wesley
Hunt if for some reason he wins the primary, which
I do not find to be particularly likely. I think
that that really is the only unknown scenario of how
this is going to play out on social media before.
Speaker 2: We move on.
Speaker 1: I do just want to take a quick break to
say that Tribcast is made possible by members of the
Texas Tribune this election season. Help ensure every Texan has
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Join us at Texastribune dot org slash donate. I mean,
I do want to sort of revisit this idea of
just these I think in many ways and this is
not a unique thought, like the Republican and Democratic primaries
in this race are sort of, like you said, in
verses of each other. Right, You've got a like polarizing
really not to undermine either candidates sort of power, but
like polarizing performers versus these sort of people casting themselves
more as statesman's style, you know, at least moderate in tone,
if not in sort of political ideology. Kayla, I mean
we have no idea what the you know, which two
pieces of this quadront are going to end up with
each other and with the Wesley Hunt piece of this
as well. What is your sense You've talked to a
lot of voters, You've talked a lot of campaign consultants,
like what are the bets everyone is sort of make.
I don't mean the predictions. I mean, like, what are
the different sort of personalities that we're investing in and
sort of gambling on what voters want here?
Speaker 3: I mean, I think what you'll hear consistently excuse me,
is that just like people don't know James Talerco and
you know that has been a big challenge for him.
But but I think exactly as Olivia said, like in
a reflection of Jasmin Crockett and Tall Rico's different approaches
and theories of how to win statewide, I think both
of them will point you to, you know, what they
think voters want is of course they think themselves. I think,
you know, Jasmonin Crockett will talk a lot about people
who like are watching her on the front lines of
Washington now, who know that she's going to show up
for them and fight for them and deliver for them
in the way that she has been in Congress, and
they want someone who'll She'll tell you that they want
someone who is like fired up and will fire them up.
I think Talla Rica's camp, on the other hand, will
point you to like a lot of disaffected independent and
Republican voters who are just like tired of the division
and the polarization and the fight, and like the social
media division and misinformation that is like pushed by algorithms
and looking for someone who is like normal and willing
to like bring people together. I think when I've gone
to Jasmin Crockett's events, you know, it's a lot of
people who really really admire her for her you know,
being a fighter, for being willing to like say whatever
even if it makes other people upset. At Tarrico's events,
I have met a lot of Republican voters or like
formerly Republican voters who are now looking for something different
and are very much into, you know, his sort of
inverse message of like we need to come together enough,
lower the temperature, you know, like it might be entertaining,
but like it feels terrible to be constantly in this
state of political fight.
Speaker 5: I don't think we can talk about this though, without
getting into the conversations around race that have come up
in this right this idea that I mean, part of
James Tallerico's pitch is that he is a more viable
general election candidate for all the reasons that you described,
that he can win people over that Texas is not
ready to elect someone as confrontational as Jasmine Crockett. This,
of course touches on some topics that are very fraught
and complicated, right, And people will point out that issues
of electability and things like that are often used against
black candidates, particularly black women. And it feels like taller Ico,
I mean, Olivia, you sort of talked about how like
some of the supporters have some of his supporters have
maybe been more hesitant to speak out in his favor
out of concerns about blowback and everything like that, perhaps
for this particular reason, but there is also a very
large segment of people talking about this race who are
saying the Democratic Party cannot get into this situation where
you cannot you know, talk about winning the general election,
where you cannot talk about electability and all those different topics.
There's you know, a theory of the case that a
like focus on race and an unwillingness to you know,
criticize candidates of color over any particular issue was part
of what turned off a lot of like moderate voters
in the first place. How do you see this conversation
playing out and do you think this criticism against Taller
Rico or maybe more specifically, some of Tallerico's supporters, is
a fair one.
Speaker 4: I think that first and foremost, I think that the
people who have really negatively polarized this conversation most, most
often than not, are people who do not live inside
the state of Texas, people who do not vote here.
And based off the conversations that I have had with
people who support Jasmin Crockett, who support James Talerico, both
inside and outside of the state, a common a common
thing that has kept coming up to me is people
who have seen these accounts who have very vocally supported
James Talerico making electability arguments critiquing jas and Crocket. But
those same social media accounts also praise Graham Platner in
Maine for his you know, brash, blunt, non traditional style.
And that's where a lot of these very strong, negatively
polarized positions come in. Is Well, you're making these electability
arguments about Jazz and Crockett that she is she said
hyperpartisan things, that she is aggressive, that she is very
out there and that's why we can't nominate her. But
you also support a candidate who frankly has a lot
more electoral baggage than she does. That begs the question
of well, why is that. Is it because Jason Crockett
is a black woman and because Graham Platner is a
white man, or is it because you think that these
are different these are different political environments. And I'll say
I talked to one influencer in particular who has been,
you know, kind of in and out of this race
a little bit, and they told me if if the
tall Rico supporters on you know, Twitter, Instagram, whatever, if
they really wanted him to win this primary, all they
had to do was let Jasmine loose. And what they meant,
why that is all you had to do was talk
about why you prefer your candidate instead of attack the
credibility and the history and the record of Jasmine Crockett.
And I think that that is a very valid opinion
to say. And in the article that Kayla wrote that
I was quoted in, I did say, like a lot
of this is not necessarily that people are extremely passionate
about James Taal Rico or extremely passionate about Jasmin Crockett.
It's the people have been negatively polarized into having these
very strong opinions because of the attacks that they've seen
on social And I think a lot of this is
left over from the twenty twenty four election, where there
were a lot of really unfair criticisms of Kamala Harris
that were made about how she couldn't be the nominee,
about how Biden had to stay in because America wasn't
ready to elect a black woman, And frankly, like me
as an individual, someone who has been very vocal about
how I am voting for James Tallerico, like my reasoning
for voting for him is he speaks to me on
a personal level with his story and his record, more
than jos Mon Crockett does. And you know, you don't
have to denigrate the other candidate to prove your point
about why you want to support the opposing candidate. And
so I think that this is just kind of a
remnant of a lot of people feeling like there was
no real resolution to a lot of the inter party
conflict that happened post twenty twenty four election. And I
think that Texas has kind of become a stand in
for a lot of those leftover feelings because people people
feel like they're feeling and seeing a lot of the
same attacks. I don't know if we're going to get
a resolution from that from this race. But what I
do know is that I don't think any campaign in
this primary or in Texas in general, I don't think
anyone is navigated uh this situation correctly. And I think
that I don't know that a productive conversation is going
to come out of this. Moreover, my concern is that
this is going to lead to more resentment. And you know,
I think it was you Eleanor who said, you know,
after March third, you know, it's all Democrats are all
friends again. I don't know that we're going to see
that happen, you know. I don't know that we'll see
James Talerico and jas mccrockett campaign together. I don't know
that we'll see the Senate candidate campaigning with Colin Allred
or Julie Johnson in their congressional district. Like I think
that this may genuinely be an inflection point in Texas
politics around this topic of conversation, and frankly, like maybe
it needs to happen because Texas Democrats haven't won a
statewide election in thirty years.
Speaker 1: I definitely feel like there was that talk of like
this inflection point after twenty twenty four, like you said,
but there wasn't maybe as much of a I don't know,
there was just so much national noise to sort of
drown some of that out that now it is, you know,
the family in fighting is like out on a national stage.
I mean, certainly, I think that's happening on the Republican
side as well, right, I mean, they're deciding what they want,
you know, their future to look like their nomination, you know,
sort of through their nominee.
Speaker 2: But I do just.
Speaker 1: Briefly before we wrap up Olivia, I do want to
talk about, you know, President Trump, who I do think
has like, uh sort of lassoed this outrage economy and
this attention economy in a way unlike almost any other
you know, modern presidential president or like modern candidate really
has I mean what sort of sets him apart and like,
how has he shifted all of this to make sort
of this landscape for this, for this kind of moment.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is no politician in the history of America
who is better at commanding attention or dominating the attention
to economy than Donald Trump. Period. You know, I've heard
a lot of people say, you know, Donald Trump broke
the Republican Party. I would argue that he broke the
Democratic Party too, because trying to figure out how to
compete with his ability to command of a narrative has
been so difficult. Democrats have been trying to do it
for ten years. I think that he really changed this
in the way of you know, politics has kind of
always been this game of decency and respectability, and I
think he completely threw that out the door. And when
you combined his very harsh, aggressive political strategy, if you
know what I was talking about earlier, with these algorithms
that incentivize strong reactions and high volume reactions, it just
leads to this combustible situation where the political narratives are
just constantly on fire. You know, if something is breaking
through online, it's because you were seeing pure anger from
people on the left and on the right. You know.
The only moments that I can think of that have
seriously broken through in the last year were the shootings
of Renee Good at alex Pratti, And that's because half
of the country was talking about how much of a
tragedy it was, and the other half of the country
was justifying why it happened, and I think that that
is the outcome of Donald Trump being at the forefront
of this. What I will say is, I think the
Democrats are finally learning from not just twenty twenty four,
but from the kind of dip that they had through
the twenty twenty to twenty twenty five when Biden left office.
You know, the social media strategy people talk about with
Donald Trump about how he was so brilliant and campaigning
in twenty twenty four and campaigning online and in social
media spaces. That was not Donald Trump's strategy. That was
Joe Biden's strategy in twenty twenty during the COVID nineteen
pandemic that he set up and kind of loosened a lot. Once,
you know, traditional campaigning came back and Donald Trump and
his campaign realized what it was and they picked it
up and they kept it pushing, and it was wildly successful.
And so I think that the place that it's brought
us to in modern politics is that the incentive structure
for our politicians is different, because now it's not just
you know, my comms director needs to have a good
relationship with the booking producer at MSNBC or with the
you know, head politics writer at Texas Tribune. It's I
need to be saying things that are outlandish or outrageous
or powerful enough on social media that I'm getting reaction
from both Democrats and Republicans. And I don't know that
that incentive structure is necessarily healthy for democracy, or that
it's healthy for politics in general, because I'm of the
opinion that the incentive structure for politicians should be that
you get to win your election and you get to
keep your job, not I'm going to get a million
likes on the social media post calling an American citizen
who was killed by a federal agent a domestic terrorist.
Speaker 2: Well's interesting.
Speaker 5: I mean, two things that have been said about James
Tellerico on this podcast was low key god and good manners, right,
but also Olivia you said that he's probably the only
state representative in the country to have over a million
followers on Instagram. I mean, it seems like what he
is trying to do with his campaign and his persona
is rise in this world with a different strategy, and
what maybe this race is setting up is a test
of whether that's possible. You know, bigguse, I do think,
you know, regardless of your feelings of how this is
or who she is as a candidate. Jasmine Crockett displays
a lot of those strategies that Donald Trump does too.
I mean, her most famous phrase is what like leech blonde,
bad built, butch body right, which is pretty caustic and
pretty confrontational and got a reaction from both Republicans and Democrats. So,
I mean, I think that is why this race is
so fascinating. One of the many reasons why this race
is so fascinating is that contrast in styles, but it's
still sort of in a lot of ways taking place online.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, Well, we are a week out from early voting,
so we will soon be able to discuss what this
all meant and do our postgame analysis and just less
than a month Olivia, thank you so much for joining
us for this conversation, Kayla as well. This week's episode
of the Trip Cast is brought to you by the
Texas Tribune Membership program. Our producers are Rob and Chris.
You can find us anywhere you find your podcasts, and
we will see you next week.