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to it any way you wish. I really appreciate the

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support everyone gives me. It keeps the show going. It

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So thank you for the support. Head on over to

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do it there. Thank you. I want to welcome everyone

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back to the Pekingana Show. Thomas is here and he's

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going to finish up the series on Sir Oswald Mosley

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so how are you doing, Thomas, I.

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Speaker 2: Do know, well, thanks for hosting me, if memory serves,

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and I reviewed the brief outline I made last time

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to repress my recollection. I think I ended talking about

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Lord Haha, William Joyce and his fate, his grim fate,

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and Oswald Mosley and Lady Moseley being detained incident of

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Defense Regulation eighteen B. Which Mosley could have made that

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into something of a propaganda coup because there was sympathy

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for him, you know, beyond the nine or ten thousand

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member cadre that were sort of the hard core of

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the British Union of Fash. I said peak they had

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about forty thousand members, but about a quarter or a

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third of the at was kind of like the core vanguard.

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But and uh, the uh, there were a lot of

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people made a show of demanding Moseley be detained, you know,

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like I said, there was only about sixty five people

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who were detained under Defense Regulation eighteen B. It was

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basically to target Moseley as well as some of these

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society types because there was there was a grave concern.

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And we'll get into this today, and it's oblique to

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the main thrust of the subject maroona cover. There's grave concern,

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especially after Edward the eighth and you know his uh

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friendly disposition towards the German Reich and uh the Duke

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at Hamilton, you know who has gone to visit I

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mean I didn't. I was trying to be flipped. That's

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not my python, like when mister hust went to visit him,

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the man has wanted to make contact with during his

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ill fated flight to try and you know, reach a

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peace concord with with the with the Anglo establishment. Hamilton

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wasn't like a national solcist or a fascist, but he'd

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known Hess and he was an interesting guy. He was

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an independent thinker. Like it made sense. I think has

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had kind of had his head in the clouds, Okay,

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I mean we got into that in our series on him.

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But the point being, it made sense that Hamilton would

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be the man he wanted to make contact with. Long

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shives that may had been, but there was concern that Hamilton,

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Hamilton himself had been some compromised, which like his life

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wasn't ruined or something thing, but I you know, these

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kinds are rumors followed him and you know that that

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that has ugly implications considering the the climate in the

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UK as whether it was a strategic ruise or not.

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And I will die on that hill at one hundred percent.

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Wasn't strategic ruse the fact that Sea Lion wasn't going

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to be a reality, and Hitler devised this elaborate you

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know Ledgered Maine essentially to the sieve Stalin. It had

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very little to do with you know, what the British

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thought about it, Whether Churchill was exploiting that, you know,

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to solidify his war mandate or you know, in purely

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cynical terms, or if he believed that was a a

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possibility a scenario that would come to pass. I don't know,

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but there's only some people in the War Party who

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believe you did it absolutely. And this stalke out of paranoia.

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So they were trying, they were they were incessantly trying

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to seek out people who they believed had been compromised

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and an event of a massive German assault, these people

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supposedly were going to collaborate with what was to become,

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you know, a facist government and things. It all became

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kind of surreal. You know. The old showed Dad's Army

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for those familiar with it, it's kind of a silly

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old show, but it was actually pretty funny. But the

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subtext of it, I think, and let you know, and

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right there's there's kind of an opaque character to a

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lot of what the to a lot of what the

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English should do. But I don't think I'm reading a

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subtextual things into it that aren't there or weren't there,

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but it kind of casts the entire it, kind of

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the entire domestic climate is preposterous. You know. It's almost

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like the old movie nineteen forty one, which is about

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the Battle of Los Angeles. It's kind of in the

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same vein, you know. So I think there was among

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people who weren't taken in by the the propaganda, you know,

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I think that there was a lot of people realize

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this is ridiculous, but there was plenty that didn't. And

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plus there's other people who absurd as any of you

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the entire narrative. They just hated as well Mosley and

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thought he was a bastard and wanted bad things to

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happen to him. And the capacity for Scholtenfreud of the

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English is basically bottomless, you know, And that had a

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lot to do with it. Yeah, it may though, an

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important subtext to the entire story of British fascism and

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kind of the last gasp of UH the the Reich

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executive trying to cultivate some sort of concord with at

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least some element of the British establishment, was the attempt

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to uh the the the attempt to you know, poach

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a British army volunteers from the ranks of POWs, you know.

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And as people will remember, rib And Troup when he

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was the ambassador of the United Kingdom, he considered it

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his mission and a lot of this, you know, was

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on the direct orders of the fure. But also Ribon

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Troup was very much a believing national socialist, and the

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national socialist ambition was that there must be an alliance

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with the United Kingdom, you know. And if you read

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second book, that becomes clear. And Brendan simms books on

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Hitler are the best other than John Tolan's biography. There's

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UH in terms of like pure biographical information and kind

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of a glimpse into the subjective, sort of psychic tendencies

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of Hitler. You know, there's UH. There's guys like all right,

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just Sophie and like David Irving, who who wrote about

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Hitler is Warlord and that's fundamentally important. But just in

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terms of kind of general biographical treatments, Sims his stuff

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is great and he gets into some of that too.

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But you know, as a as a situation deteriorated at

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the front, you know, uh, something Hitler spoke of a lot,

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and also elements within the Wehrmacht was you know, our

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are the are the Western allies going to simply let

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the Red Army overrun Europe? You know, that doesn't seem

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like any that doesn't seem like something that would gain

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any attraction with reasonable men either in the you know

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what remains of you know, the patriotic element of the

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American establishment or the military. And a particular concern, you know,

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if if if the Soviets reached Berlin, I mean, the

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United Kingdom had a serious problem, I mean they had

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they had a serious problem anyway, because they they'd essentially

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committed suicide in bargaining away the empire to to wage

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the war. So you know, the reasoning in Berlin, especially

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after Kursk, was well, there's got to be a substantial

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portion of the body politic and the United Kingdom that

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you know, is gravely concerned about the fact that Communist

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victory seems imminent, you know, and so that wasn't totally

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off base. So the idea was that these guys who

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were to constitute what became the British Free Corps, you know,

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the British National element of the vafan SS, they would

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absolutely you know, they'd be guaranteed that all these men

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would receive a guarantee they would not be deployed to

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fight against their own countrymen. You know, they'd be deployed

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exclusively to the Eastern Front, and they'd sign an oath

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that was an English you know, pledging their fealty to

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Europe and Adolf Hitler but also to the UKA to

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like resistant Bullshevism as like a European patriot, you know.

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And the idea was like, well, you know, if we

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can get even like a thousand or fifteen hundred men,

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you know, and we can propagandize this extensively of these

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Englishmen and Scots and Irish guys and Ulster guys and

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Welshmen you know, going into action against the Communists, you know,

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under the swastika. You know, people back home in the

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UK o well have to wait a minute, like we're

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fighting the Germans, when our boys are fighting the Communists,

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we're trying to overrun Europe and would probably slaughter us

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like they like they did the you know, a quarter

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of the Russian population, you know, like I I mean

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that it did. There was an internal logic to it,

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you know, And this is really kind of a brainscheld

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too of a gottlib Berger. Gottlp Berger was a really

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interesting guy, and he was actually the man who intervened, uh,

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when crazy old Oscar der Levanger was, you know, getting

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into all kinds of shit and kind of his alcoholism,

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and you know, uh, it's just isn't aside because there's

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a lot of people including that I can't even remember

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his name. It's like this hysterical limey who's always dropping

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third right content. But he goes into these like he

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goes into these like history onic diet tribes about how

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evil like the subjects of his like little content tidbits are,

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and he loves talking about how like der Lavanger was

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a quote child blister and a rapist. Derlavanger like a

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lot of military guys who can't grow up, like teenage

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he liked teenage girls a lot. So he'd carry on

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with fifteen, sixteen, seventeen year old girls and he'd get

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caught doing it, and angry father is a demand to

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go to jail. And finally the Reich's like, you know what,

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we're tired of this shit. I think you need to

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go to a concentration camp for a while and think

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about like keeping it in your pants. That's what happened.

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He doesn't hang around schoolyards touching little kids. And I'm sorry,

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are you a creep if you're like forty and you

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like kick it with teenage girls? Yeah, dryl Vanger was

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a creep. Okay, he was not a child molester. That's returned.

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But in any event, Berger was his was his day

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one comrade from the Great War, so he intervened to

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get him sprung from the concentration camp. He basically convinced

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the chance the right chancery, the party chancery, to like

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look like to ploy der Levanger to Spain. You know,

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let him lead part of the ground element if the

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bay if if like if the krusty, horny bastard survives,

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you know, he doesn't drink himself to death or getting

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blown away, like, consider him redeemed so like that's exactly

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what happened in Derllavanger. Like the guy the guy had

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like the guy had brass balls, and so he then

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say he like led from the front. He had he

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had like incredible, incredible aptitude as as like an infantry commander,

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like even when he became the even when he became

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a standard fear you know, he was still doing the

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same thing. And that's one of the reasons why com

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group delave Anger, Like you know, these are very rough men,

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to say the least. The only reasons they respected him.

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But any event, gottleb Berger, when he wasn't trying to

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get his uh his friends out of prison for their

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uh indiscretions, he's the guy who really pushed hard with him.

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They're like, look, you've gotta you've got to give up

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this sort of like racial purity nonsense. Respective of he's like, yeah,

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we're not. We're not gonna let you know, non Germanics

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enjoy the full status of uh of the Praetorian Guard,

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you know, like our own people do. But like this

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idea that we we can't have like non Europeans in

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our ranks so long as they're not you know our enemy,

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so long as they're not Poles, so it's not Russians.

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We'll get into at some point, like the Russian elements, uh,

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and the Ukrainian elements, because that's complicated. But it was Berger,

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for example, who brought uh the the Asman divisions in.

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It was him who like advocated for the Maslim SS troopers,

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and it was him who said, you've got to try

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and get these British peiod f used in the SS,

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you know. And at least his view was at least

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some of them will go for it, that's all we need.

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And the British Army also had a rep for professionalism,

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and obviously the guys the approach with this were like

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combat soldiers. They weren't pogues, and like pogues wouldn't have

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been in a position to get captured anyway. But that's

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gottleib Burgers who uh it was his brain child. Interestingly,

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and some person just from the Foreign ministry too, but

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I'll get into that in a minute. But the there

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was ah and interestingly in the UK there was a

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there was rumors until after the war of there being

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a like company sized elements and larger like English peo

236
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WS or British peod WS fighting in the vaf ss.

237
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:10,960
Speaker 1: Uh.

238
00:18:11,319 --> 00:18:14,440
Speaker 2: That's not U. That's not the case. And it never

239
00:18:14,559 --> 00:18:19,000
numbered more than you know, a few dozen men at

240
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:26,559
one time. But initially the name for it it was floated,

241
00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:31,640
was UH, the British Legion. But there was a there's

242
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,960
a veterans organization in the UK, you know, it's a

243
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:40,039
counterpart to the American Legion called the British Legion. Then

244
00:18:40,079 --> 00:18:41,839
the idea was floated to call it the Legion of

245
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,880
Saint George, but that was drops because it didn't really

246
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:49,799
resonate with the national socialist ideological culture. And you know

247
00:18:49,839 --> 00:18:52,960
the Greeks, the Greek were Orthodox and the Russian Orthodox,

248
00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:55,480
they have the same patron saint. They would cause confusion

249
00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,519
that they wanted something U that had like a unique

250
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:09,519
identitarian significance to to Great Britain. Okay, So it was decided,

251
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:11,799
you know, to call it the British Free Corps, the

252
00:19:11,839 --> 00:19:15,039
British Free Corps, you know, and UH for the first time,

253
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:22,880
and in UH the r s H a documentation of it,

254
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,319
the name British Free Corps appears at the first time

255
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:32,039
in November nineteen forty three, and again it was in UH.

256
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,039
It was around May that the idea was first floated,

257
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,640
you know, and then UH again and the after I

258
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,519
had the curse it it became something that was promoted

259
00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:48,119
in earnest And so first there was a there was

260
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:55,319
a special detachment under the authority of the s D

261
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:04,519
specifically UH, specifically charged with attempting to increase the recruitment

262
00:20:04,559 --> 00:20:10,000
of officers. That was largely a failure. They were only

263
00:20:10,039 --> 00:20:12,640
able to poach about six volunteers. And I mean this

264
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,680
is essential to the SS said, these men have to

265
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,880
be volunteers. We can't press these guys into service. First

266
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,279
of all, we're probably just gonna get guys who are

267
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,279
going to try and food out of the program, and

268
00:20:25,319 --> 00:20:29,519
that's why they're you know, because they're going to resent this. Secondly,

269
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,200
we actually wanted this to be a combat effective formation,

270
00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:36,839
you know. And finally, the propaganda aspect was paramount. So

271
00:20:37,559 --> 00:20:41,759
these guys had to be volunteers, and you know, looking forward,

272
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:48,279
obviously the idea was they'd allow their testimony to be

273
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,240
recorded in broadcast as you know, I'm a you know,

274
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,160
I'm an Englishman, or I'm a Welshman, or I'm a

275
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:59,279
Scotsman or I'm an ulsterman and I you know, I'm

276
00:20:59,279 --> 00:21:02,400
a patriot, but you know I also stand with you know,

277
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:11,000
the European race and again against Bolshevism. You know, there

278
00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:23,519
was another dedicated detachment that was UH formed and charged

279
00:21:23,559 --> 00:21:34,599
with the recruiting potential volunteers. It was Special Attachment five

280
00:21:34,759 --> 00:21:41,640
seventeen and they identified around three hundred British pureys who

281
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,240
were viewed to have like the physical and psychic and

282
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:51,160
aptitude you know for UH for a combat rule with

283
00:21:51,279 --> 00:21:55,400
THEA and SS, and who were viewed to have, you know,

284
00:21:55,759 --> 00:22:01,319
either the political disposition that would compliment and service they're in,

285
00:22:01,759 --> 00:22:06,960
or you know, guys who were malleable enough or at

286
00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:10,440
least open to the idea such that you know, they

287
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:19,319
they could be persuaded the as it's started to take shape,

288
00:22:19,599 --> 00:22:23,480
a kind of a kind of command structure developed with

289
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:30,319
Special Attachment five seventeen of British volunteers. There was a

290
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,880
handful of British Army and Royal Air Force NCOs at

291
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,720
about twenty enlisted men who kind of were the first

292
00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:52,880
cadre of what was to become the British Free Corps AS.

293
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,279
By the summer ninety forty three, as this kind of

294
00:22:55,319 --> 00:23:01,799
core of original membership was identified and kind of corralled

295
00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:08,720
into this formal structure, you know, they were they were

296
00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:13,519
given SS identification booklets and they were put under the

297
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:21,000
uh authority of the s S help dump D one department

298
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:30,799
D one for context helped them. D one was uh.

299
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,759
They were also responsible for the Germanic s S. These are

300
00:23:35,799 --> 00:23:40,559
the guys who formed uh, the Algamine s S in

301
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:47,680
places like Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, you know, any uh,

302
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:57,200
any any Germanic country as per uh you know, cultural

303
00:23:57,279 --> 00:24:00,880
commonality as well as you know, according to the Nuremberg

304
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:07,440
laws that defined uh, who was an aryan you know,

305
00:24:07,559 --> 00:24:10,599
that's that's what the Germanic SS was. And from the

306
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,279
Germanic SS, a lot of the national legions you know,

307
00:24:15,319 --> 00:24:19,039
from these same countries, uh, that's who they That was

308
00:24:19,079 --> 00:24:24,160
the original population they drew upon for volunteers. You know.

309
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,720
By nineteen forty four, like right after the New Year,

310
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,640
you know, January ninety forty four, the British Free Corps,

311
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,960
they were fully integrated into the SS. Like they they

312
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,640
became like an official you know, like SS Waffen s

313
00:24:44,839 --> 00:24:50,240
S element and at that point they were given they

314
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:58,160
were given field gray uniforms you know, coma fatigues and

315
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:03,559
they received the uh the shield patch, you know, the

316
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,000
the national insignia that all like foreign volunteers got their's

317
00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:10,920
had the Union jack you know, yeah, it's on my

318
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:21,680
shirt here. The the national shield patch always went on

319
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,559
the left arm, and uh, their collar patch with a

320
00:25:26,599 --> 00:25:29,720
nod to Saint George. It was three lions, you know,

321
00:25:29,759 --> 00:25:35,839
which is like the standard of a Saint George. By

322
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,759
the end of the war when they were finally deployed. Uh,

323
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:44,480
they also had a they had a cuff title which

324
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,640
it said it right in German and English and British

325
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,200
Free Corps, British Free Corps and then British Free Corps,

326
00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:56,279
which is interesting. Those are really hard to find. If

327
00:25:58,079 --> 00:26:02,400
if you're somebody who seeks authentic, like Third Reich Militaria,

328
00:26:02,839 --> 00:26:05,279
if you can find one of those and validated is authentic,

329
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,400
like you're you're very lucky, and or you've got like

330
00:26:09,559 --> 00:26:17,240
very good investigative shops because they're highly coveted just because

331
00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:21,039
the British Free Corps is cool. And if you don't

332
00:26:21,079 --> 00:26:28,759
think so, like I, you're kind of lame. But the uh,

333
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,480
it's and and some people make a lot of the

334
00:26:31,519 --> 00:26:33,559
fact too, like the British Free Corps did have like

335
00:26:33,599 --> 00:26:39,279
really keeno uniforms. There was other like national legions where

336
00:26:39,279 --> 00:26:43,519
it was like more subdued, but who were really combat effective.

337
00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:46,599
So like the claim is like, oh, this was just

338
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,960
a propaganda attempt at a propaganda coop, Like, yeah, it was,

339
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,200
but that wasn't all it was. And the fact that

340
00:26:54,279 --> 00:26:56,720
didn't make an impact on the battlefield would to kind

341
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,880
of like a conspiracy of circumstances. It wasn't because dot

342
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:07,440
lob Berger and the SD and and Himmler himself and

343
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,599
and Carl Wolf. It's not because like they didn't have

344
00:27:10,599 --> 00:27:14,359
some intention for it to be, you know, a combat

345
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,359
capable formation. The absolutely did. Like the fact they didn't

346
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,759
have the fact that it didn't happen, well, I mean

347
00:27:19,799 --> 00:27:26,519
that you know, nobody denies that a large catalysts or

348
00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:30,640
imminus for its creation was was propaganda. I mean that

349
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,640
goes out saying but there was there was any considerations

350
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,559
with respect to the UK and Mayor's a prestige that

351
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,359
didn't exists elsewhere. And I mean for people thinks it

352
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,200
was like some retarded pipe dream or something. I don't know, Okay,

353
00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:49,319
I mean it was the final defenders at Berlin were

354
00:27:49,319 --> 00:27:52,480
thirty third SS. They were much a Frenchman, Okay, I

355
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:58,240
mean like this was not The SS was a Pan

356
00:27:58,319 --> 00:28:04,079
European army, and there were people who whose nations were

357
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,599
de facto or de jury at war with the Reich,

358
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,240
who you know, literally fought to the last man to

359
00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:13,400
defend the German Reich.

360
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: It was.

361
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:21,839
Speaker 2: It's more complicated than court historians allow. I mentioned a

362
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,559
moment ago about the oath that British Free Corps volunteers signed.

363
00:28:30,079 --> 00:28:35,599
The relevant language is quote, I you know, the name

364
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,720
of the subject or volunteer, being a British subject, consider

365
00:28:39,759 --> 00:28:42,440
it my duty to offer my services in the common

366
00:28:42,519 --> 00:28:47,119
European struggle against communism, and hereby apply to enlist in

367
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:55,759
the British Pree Corps, which is what I believe was

368
00:28:55,799 --> 00:28:58,400
in the minds of most of these guys, you know,

369
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,359
I mean, it wasn't being a prisoner and losing your

370
00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:07,960
liberty is awful no matter what. But British Army prisoners

371
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:15,039
and American potwws until and until really night, you know,

372
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:21,359
end of forty four started forty five, when the terror

373
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,000
bombing really took its toll And and people started lynching

374
00:29:25,079 --> 00:29:30,640
down Airman. British and American peodaws were treated very well.

375
00:29:31,799 --> 00:29:37,640
They were treated in line with the demands that Geneva convention.

376
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:44,359
You know. That's why. I mean, obviously stuff like Hogan's

377
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,279
Heroes was goofy, but I know the counter refrain as

378
00:29:48,319 --> 00:29:50,559
people these days getting mad at that show and can't

379
00:29:50,559 --> 00:29:53,079
believe it aired on primetime, or they act like the

380
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,599
Great Escape with some kind of softball treatment. If you

381
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:01,200
were if you were a Royal Air Force or like

382
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,559
a US Army or US Army ergo or pew, you

383
00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:05,960
weren't being tortured every day. You weren't being thrown in

384
00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:08,640
dacaut like, you weren't being like whipped with a cat

385
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:13,119
of nine tails, like you were being treated like POWs

386
00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:17,000
were always treated and according to the you know, was

387
00:30:17,079 --> 00:30:20,279
Failian consensus. You know, so like that wasn't weird that

388
00:30:21,559 --> 00:30:23,880
those kinds of settings that you depicted in the light

389
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:35,279
hearted stuff, you know it that's uh, that's important. The uh,

390
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,799
the British Free Corps it had a kind of confused

391
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,119
existence in terms of what command it properly belonged to,

392
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,799
in part because the situation was getting very critical. You know,

393
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:57,079
this was sixteen months before the Day of Defeat that

394
00:30:57,559 --> 00:31:03,960
it finally was you know, validated, if you will. As

395
00:31:04,799 --> 00:31:15,960
as as legion at UH, there were some commanders and

396
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,960
especially later in the war, despite you know, the Party

397
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,680
and the and the s S asserting itself against the

398
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,000
Wehrmacht after the attempt on Hitler's life, you had a

399
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,279
lot of power if you were the equivalent of a

400
00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:38,519
colonel or higher in the Wehrmacht, you know, in the field,

401
00:31:39,119 --> 00:31:42,319
you you were kind of a law into yourself within reason.

402
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,839
So when the British Free Corps showed up UH and

403
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,200
some of these UH and some of these pans are

404
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:58,319
element generals or ss UH, commanders were said like, okay,

405
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,720
like you know, these these British POWs are joining your

406
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,279
command now. They weren't handing it, you know, they were like,

407
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:12,759
look like, uh, this is gonna cause problems. And in

408
00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:14,799
the back of their mind it was like, if we're

409
00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:17,039
gonna try and negotiate some kind of peace with the

410
00:32:17,079 --> 00:32:21,960
Allies before the Red Army burns it all down. If

411
00:32:22,119 --> 00:32:26,799
if it looks like I'm ordering Englishmen to go into combat,

412
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:32,720
I how am I going to explain that you know, UH,

413
00:32:32,839 --> 00:32:35,359
which on the one hand, UH, you could say is

414
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:40,039
kind of fucked up, But on the other hand, it's like, well,

415
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:48,440
any uh, any general officer who UH is commanding men

416
00:32:48,519 --> 00:32:51,759
in combat, his job is to keep those men alive,

417
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,200
you know, and within reason, make sure as many of

418
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,039
them get to go home as possible. You know, that

419
00:32:58,039 --> 00:33:05,640
doesn't mean you forfeit victory canis to prioritize that humanistic aspect.

420
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:10,160
But if the war is lost anyway, and you know,

421
00:33:10,519 --> 00:33:15,039
accepting these British peowws into your command is going to

422
00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:20,480
screw up the odds of you know, the collective fate

423
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,160
of of the unit, You've got to consider that very seriously.

424
00:33:26,759 --> 00:33:36,160
So there's that there's unsubstantiated rumors that have endured and

425
00:33:36,279 --> 00:33:40,440
some of this I believe to be true of after

426
00:33:40,839 --> 00:33:43,319
the British Free Corps was all was for all practical

427
00:33:43,319 --> 00:33:48,559
purposes disbanded individual members. There's people who claim that they

428
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,119
fought with them at Berlin, you know, like they were

429
00:33:51,359 --> 00:33:53,480
they were attached at thirty third s s because they

430
00:33:53,559 --> 00:33:58,559
like showed up there, or they were fighting with volks Therm,

431
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:03,640
or they were you know, you know, some like older Englishmen,

432
00:34:03,839 --> 00:34:06,599
like older I mean like of proper military age, was

433
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,280
like leading some hitler yugen kids that try and help

434
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,440
them break out. I think at least some of that

435
00:34:13,599 --> 00:34:16,519
is true, because some of these guys were never accounted for.

436
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,920
And uh if the Soviet I guarantee, if the Soviets

437
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,000
had captured or killed these guys, and the Soviets were

438
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,519
obsessed with documenting things, they would have made a big

439
00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:31,719
deal about it. They would have been like, you know, oh,

440
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,639
they the capitalist English are turning against us now, you know,

441
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,679
look look at this, or you know, it would have

442
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,880
it would have really upset the the Western allies if

443
00:34:46,039 --> 00:34:48,840
I mean not for not for moral reasons necessarily, but

444
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,239
I mean like it it would have caused uh consternation,

445
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,199
you know, uh if they if they'd come across these

446
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,039
guys before the Battle of Berlin and they've been kia

447
00:35:01,159 --> 00:35:03,880
or captured, this would have been kept a secret. And

448
00:35:04,159 --> 00:35:08,079
I mean nobody was getting id'd that when Berlain got overrun,

449
00:35:08,199 --> 00:35:09,840
so like who would have known after that, you know,

450
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,559
like for decades after and there was roles and roles

451
00:35:13,559 --> 00:35:16,639
at Mia presumed dead and like most a goodly number

452
00:35:16,639 --> 00:35:19,639
of these people have never been identified. So that's definitely

453
00:35:19,639 --> 00:35:23,880
not impossible. Okay, the numbers were talking about are a few,

454
00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:37,480
but they there are some unaccounted for the UH. This

455
00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:44,519
bring the case that John Amory, and he was executed

456
00:35:44,559 --> 00:35:53,039
by hanging expeditiously several months after the war in the

457
00:35:53,039 --> 00:35:59,960
summer of twenty ninth. And Amory we'll get into who

458
00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:05,079
Amory wasn't a minute, because he plays a significant role

459
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,840
in UH, how this came to pass, and the entire

460
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:19,360
enterprise of the British Free Corps. But such that the

461
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:25,159
documentation I could find about other UH British subjects, I thought, like,

462
00:36:25,199 --> 00:36:30,039
I'm not from the not not not from the Empire.

463
00:36:30,159 --> 00:36:39,159
I mean, you know, like actual Britain's in the When

464
00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:44,440
the Battle of France was underway, there were seven British

465
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:49,000
subjects said to be serving in UH various units of

466
00:36:49,039 --> 00:36:55,679
the Totenkov Vimond, including in what became third s S Totenkov.

467
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:04,239
This is before the BAS existed. It's believed there's at

468
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,639
least a handful who served in leib Standart Adolf Hitler

469
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:14,199
first s S and UH, the the UH, the Propaganda

470
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:23,119
and War Correspondent Unit UH Standard Kurt Eggers. It's that's

471
00:37:23,119 --> 00:37:26,960
where James Monty served, you know, the American defactor who

472
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:34,679
joined the Vafan s S. It's also believed that there

473
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,719
was two guys who might have been deserters who served

474
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:46,079
in the Flat detachment of Leibstandart Adolf Hitler, both of

475
00:37:46,119 --> 00:37:51,039
whom are apparently awarded UH the Iron Cross second Class.

476
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:59,920
There's a book that hasn't been translated about UH Leips

477
00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:03,960
van Dar, specifically the Flat Detachment that apparently deals with

478
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,039
these guys. I haven't had time to dig that out

479
00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:10,159
yet and work on translating it as much as I

480
00:38:10,199 --> 00:38:15,920
can to interpret what it actually says. But the original

481
00:38:16,039 --> 00:38:19,079
fix a British Free Corps recruits and the guys most

482
00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:31,960
known to to the public, the guys who achieved the

483
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,000
most prominent I guess like infamy were a guy named

484
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,639
Thomas Heller Cooper and Frank McLarty. And both of these

485
00:38:39,639 --> 00:38:47,199
guys were British Union of Fascist veterans who apparently, immediately

486
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,000
upon you know, being offered opportunity to join the British

487
00:38:51,039 --> 00:38:56,840
Free Corps, did it, and they became important in the

488
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:02,119
effort to recruit more. And this really came back to

489
00:39:02,199 --> 00:39:07,599
haunt Moseley because even though it's not like there was

490
00:39:07,639 --> 00:39:14,000
a great number of British Union veterans who joined up.

491
00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:18,719
There was enough that the narrative became, oh, well, these

492
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,199
guys were all a bunch of Mosleyites, and look now

493
00:39:21,199 --> 00:39:23,480
they're not, you know, now they're trying to join the

494
00:39:23,519 --> 00:39:29,159
Third Reich. You know, this is one of the things

495
00:39:29,159 --> 00:39:34,159
that really are on Mosey's post war political fortunes. I mean,

496
00:39:34,159 --> 00:39:36,159
I don't think I think Moseley's moment had kind of

497
00:39:36,199 --> 00:39:40,920
passed by then anyway. And uh, there's a really good

498
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,199
treatment of this. The seminal biography of Francis Jacky is

499
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:51,559
by Carrie Bolton. That was not saying. But there's another

500
00:39:51,679 --> 00:39:55,519
biography from the late nineties which is actually great in

501
00:39:55,559 --> 00:40:00,920
its own right. The end notes alone or a treasure

502
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:07,159
trove of valuable information for researchers. I include myself in

503
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:13,000
that category. It's by this guy named Kevin Coogan, who

504
00:40:13,039 --> 00:40:15,840
was kind of this left wing anarchist type guy from

505
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,639
the Pacific Northwest. But the book was remarkably balanced and H.

506
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:27,079
Keith Thompson contributed his testimony. Elsa DeWitt, who is Yaqui's

507
00:40:27,159 --> 00:40:32,320
longtime mistress. A bunch of guys who knew James Hartung Medole,

508
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,280
some contemporaries at George Sylvester Virick. It's a fantastic book.

509
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:42,239
It's called Dreamer of the Day. But he gets into

510
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,960
the rivalry between Yaki and Moseley, and Moseley's efforts to

511
00:40:46,039 --> 00:40:52,639
sabotage Yacki's efforts on the continents in the aftermath of

512
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:59,239
h you know, the Day of Defeat, and it doesn't

513
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,280
cast Moseley in particularly flattering light. I mean, the historical

514
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:09,159
record doesn't. It's not Hoogan's conceptual predudice or something, but

515
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:18,599
such that the British Free Corps did see active service

516
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,199
in March nineteen forty five, you know, just weeks before

517
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:33,719
the capitulation, there was an attachment of British Free Corps

518
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:41,280
volunteers who deployed with eleventh SS, which was Nordland, which

519
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:47,360
consisted primarily as Scandinavian volunteers. They were attached to third SS,

520
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:53,400
pans Er Corps, which was under Felix Steiner. Steiner was

521
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:59,719
the commander of Viking, fifth SS and Nordland. There's a

522
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,360
lot of membership in common in terms of the ethnographic makeup.

523
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:10,000
You know, Norwegian, Swedes, Danes, some Finns, some folks to

524
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:20,199
which these guys were. The records such that they can

525
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:27,559
be cobbled together and the movements of these men identified

526
00:42:27,559 --> 00:42:35,639
with any clarity. They were specifically sent to the reconnaissance

527
00:42:35,679 --> 00:42:42,199
battalion there was, which was under the command of a Swede,

528
00:42:43,199 --> 00:42:52,159
Hans Gost the Parson. Their squad leader was an S. S.

529
00:42:52,719 --> 00:43:02,280
Softfire Douglas Martin. His alias was Hodge Richard W. Landvier,

530
00:43:03,639 --> 00:43:10,800
who is a great documentarian of the vass He was

531
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,920
involved with a lot of veterans organizations into the nineties.

532
00:43:16,159 --> 00:43:20,719
You know who, We're producing a lot of material as

533
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:27,639
a kind of counterweight to what court historians are producing

534
00:43:29,119 --> 00:43:35,920
and whatever you think of Richard Landvia, he had unprecedented

535
00:43:36,039 --> 00:43:43,880
access to veterans testimony as well as records, personnel records,

536
00:43:44,519 --> 00:43:49,480
original personnel records of the waf SS and other things.

537
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,599
He claims in his book on the British Free Corps

538
00:43:52,639 --> 00:43:59,320
that the Britons that were attached to the recon Battalion

539
00:44:02,119 --> 00:44:06,280
of eleventh SS, they ended up in the village at Schoenberg,

540
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,320
which is on the west bank of the Oder River,

541
00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:12,119
and presumably these guys went into action against the Soviets

542
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,639
because if they were there, I mean they were coming

543
00:44:14,679 --> 00:44:26,119
under heavy assault. Okay. In April, the entire Panzer Corps

544
00:44:28,199 --> 00:44:35,519
was moved templan as you know, the long retreat continued.

545
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:42,519
They were then assigned to the Transport Company of Steiner's

546
00:44:42,559 --> 00:44:50,119
headquarters staff and when Nordland Division left for Berlin, you know,

547
00:44:50,159 --> 00:44:53,480
the final retreat to the capitol. As Berlin became a

548
00:44:53,519 --> 00:44:59,480
frontline city as the Fear called it, the Transport Company

549
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:06,880
I went to Berlin, and you know, British Free Corps

550
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:19,159
elements included Steiner. By April twenty ninth broke contact with

551
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:29,079
the enemy. What remained of uh, what remained of third

552
00:45:29,159 --> 00:45:37,199
Panzer was uh was engaged UH contra the Red Army,

553
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,599
and he did that with the intention UH to try

554
00:45:41,599 --> 00:45:46,960
and surrender, you know, to the to the Americans or

555
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:53,360
and or the English. Thomas hell Or Cooper and Fred Croft,

556
00:45:55,159 --> 00:45:58,159
who are two members of the British Free Corps with

557
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:02,559
Steiner's Transport Company, they surrendered on the second and May

558
00:46:02,599 --> 00:46:05,440
to the one hundred and twenty first Imagery Regiment. The

559
00:46:05,519 --> 00:46:09,199
rest of them. It's entirely possible these guys died fighting

560
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:14,199
in Berlin, you know, because the record puts them there

561
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,480
for context of what I mentioned earlier about these reports

562
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,960
of some of these guys you know, being in Berlin.

563
00:46:22,519 --> 00:46:32,639
You know, in the final days and hours Okay, we

564
00:46:32,679 --> 00:46:41,159
still got a few minutes kind of the roots of this. Ultimately,

565
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,519
you know, like I said, this was the longest standing.

566
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:50,000
This was derived out of a long standing desire or

567
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:56,159
recognition of the need or probably perhaps of the fure

568
00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:01,679
his staff, the Foreign Ministry element to the military and

569
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,239
the SS you know, who understood that there needs to

570
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,119
be some kind of conquer with the United Kingdom otherwise

571
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:11,519
this grand ambition of national socialism is not going to

572
00:47:11,559 --> 00:47:20,400
be realized. So early on the Reich Foreign Ministry around

573
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:28,639
nineteen forty two, they set up in Berlin. They set

574
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:34,880
up this kind of study group to try and cultivate

575
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:41,039
contact and build relations with dissident elements in the UK

576
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:45,480
or at least sympathetic elements to the Reich against the

577
00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:49,239
Soviet Union and against the War Party then led by Churchill,

578
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:55,199
and specifically they wanted to cultivate guys and women who

579
00:47:55,599 --> 00:48:01,880
were part of the establishment and preferably part of the nobility.

580
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:10,559
Some funds were given to the Duke of Bedford, Edward

581
00:48:10,639 --> 00:48:13,679
Godfrey he set up He's and he proceeded to set

582
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:19,199
up the original British National Party which later you know,

583
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,559
the BNP as we know it was like John Tyndall's outfit,

584
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:25,760
and then later like Nick Griffin, who I think it's

585
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:32,639
kind of a con man, you know, became hancho that

586
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,840
obviously they were evoking the legacy of the original BNP,

587
00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:38,320
but this had nothing to do with them. This is

588
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:44,679
this is something totally different, This British National Party. They

589
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:48,760
became this. They gave this pressure group demanding a settlement

590
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:55,559
with Hitler, like a negotiated peace, and the War Party

591
00:48:55,719 --> 00:49:01,639
and specifically the Home Office. They they they really freaked out.

592
00:49:01,679 --> 00:49:04,000
They're like, this is a revival of the British Union

593
00:49:04,039 --> 00:49:08,320
of Fascists. This is a fifth column, you know, these

594
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:20,159
people are trying to overthrow the government. And but it

595
00:49:20,559 --> 00:49:28,760
garnered for what it was, It garnered a chorus sympathy

596
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:35,199
beyond what people might think was possible, especially consider that

597
00:49:38,519 --> 00:49:43,320
you know, eighteen B as well as the reformed Trees

598
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,480
in Law, which provided for you know, a mandatory death

599
00:49:46,519 --> 00:49:51,199
penalty for a very kind of loosely defined rage of

600
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:57,320
conduct that it could be demonstrated. It provided aid and

601
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:04,920
comfort to the enemy. You know. Obviously, the hope of

602
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:09,480
the Foreign Ministry and the s D was that, you know,

603
00:50:09,559 --> 00:50:11,920
kind of like the nine or ten thousand core members,

604
00:50:12,159 --> 00:50:21,000
that the UF who were presumably still active, would flock

605
00:50:21,119 --> 00:50:30,239
to this British National Party, you know, and as Britain's

606
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:35,239
fortunes continued to decline on the battlefield, you know, this

607
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,719
this would be sufficient to kind of plant the seed

608
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:45,000
that would ultimately bring down the War Party, which seems

609
00:50:45,039 --> 00:50:47,599
like a long shot, but you know, like I said this,

610
00:50:47,599 --> 00:50:51,719
this actually did gain some traction, much as it was

611
00:50:51,840 --> 00:51:01,880
blown out of proportion by the Home Office. These guys

612
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:08,800
also the British National Party, they started, they started a

613
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:18,079
newspaper called The Patriot, which made headlines by setting up

614
00:51:18,119 --> 00:51:24,599
a fund, an eighteen b Detainees Aid Fund, you know,

615
00:51:24,679 --> 00:51:28,599
and this was in those days there was still a

616
00:51:28,599 --> 00:51:33,320
pretty strong tradition, particularly among society types, of respecting civil

617
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,760
liberties and stuff. A lot of people were appalled at

618
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,920
Mosley and some of these other guys and women had

619
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:44,760
been you know, in ceremontacy, locked up and what amounted to, ah,

620
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:51,000
you know, what amounted to a concentration camp for indefinite duration.

621
00:51:54,719 --> 00:52:01,000
This was intended to become the nucleus of uh, you know,

622
00:52:01,039 --> 00:52:06,280
a political movement. The Home Secretary in the wartime coalition

623
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:17,559
was Herbert Stanley Morrison, and he really agitated about the

624
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:28,360
purported threat posed by this, issued a report that uh,

625
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:35,440
that December that claimed that fascism in London was resurgent.

626
00:52:37,639 --> 00:52:40,480
You know that there's gonna be imminent programs against Jews,

627
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:45,519
that the threat of Sea Lion has never abated. You

628
00:52:45,559 --> 00:52:52,440
know that, uh, there's a an active fifth column within

629
00:52:52,639 --> 00:52:58,000
that's in direct contact with the enemy, and they have

630
00:52:58,199 --> 00:53:04,199
social pedigree and that renders them untouchable and we're all

631
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:10,159
in grave danger, you know. And this, uh, this environment

632
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:19,239
really continued until until around nineteen forty four, you know,

633
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:25,599
when in a rare moment of clarity through the haze

634
00:53:25,599 --> 00:53:31,000
of delusion and alcoholism and cynicism, Churchill basically said, you've

635
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,039
got to scale back on this, on this kind of

636
00:53:34,079 --> 00:53:40,719
propping end because it's gonna stoke sympathy for these people,

637
00:53:42,679 --> 00:53:53,480
which was entirely correct the uh you know, and for

638
00:53:53,519 --> 00:54:04,400
clarity too, because not a lots written about this. By

639
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:10,159
the time the war was well underway, after the Wehrmacht

640
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:16,599
was halted at the Gates of Moscow. After America joined

641
00:54:16,639 --> 00:54:25,079
the war in earnest Hitler at ninety forty two, he

642
00:54:25,159 --> 00:54:30,599
met with Paul Otto Schmith, who had a lot of

643
00:54:30,599 --> 00:54:34,199
cloud at the Foreign Ministry. He was an interpreter, he'd

644
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,039
been at one of the first World Economic Forums, I

645
00:54:37,079 --> 00:54:41,519
think in nineteen thirty three, and he was fluent in French.

646
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,480
When Hitler had to talk to Antonescu, who ironically they

647
00:54:45,519 --> 00:54:51,159
were close friends, and Antonescu was Hitler's best ally. He

648
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:53,960
wasn't as personally close to him as he was the Mussolini,

649
00:54:54,039 --> 00:54:58,360
but Antonescu was definitely Hitler's best military ali and they

650
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:02,760
had a great mutual respect. But Hitler didn't speak Romanian

651
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:07,599
and Antonescu didn't speak German, but Uh Antonescu spoke French,

652
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:13,599
so like Hitler would, Uh Schmidt would translate. And Schmid

653
00:55:13,639 --> 00:55:15,719
didn't speak Romanian either, but he was fluent in French

654
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,360
and English as well as a slew of other languages.

655
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:24,400
So Paul out of Schmidt would interpret for the Furre

656
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,960
and then relay in French to Antonescu, who then answer

657
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,119
in French. Then Schmid would really back in German, but

658
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:38,280
Uh Schmidt Uh headed up the the England Committee, you know,

659
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,719
to try and as as I mentioned a minute ago,

660
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:45,039
to try and cultivate, you know, in an alliance with

661
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:56,280
a sympathetic cadre among British society types. And you know

662
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:05,440
Hitler's uh, you know, and what Hitler said in Hiller

663
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,559
privately told Borman, you know, like kind of unpleasant of

664
00:56:08,599 --> 00:56:13,679
a character as Borman was. There's a reason why, you know,

665
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:22,559
he he took on Hess's role as essentially party secretary

666
00:56:22,679 --> 00:56:27,039
and gatekeeper of access to the fear and Hitler confide

667
00:56:27,039 --> 00:56:34,880
in them a fair amount. And you know, Hitler said

668
00:56:35,519 --> 00:56:38,760
in early nineteen forty two, he said it. You know,

669
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:44,480
he said, it's definitely possible that Churchill will fall, and

670
00:56:44,519 --> 00:56:46,119
he's like, we need to do everything we can to

671
00:56:46,199 --> 00:56:49,280
facilitate that. But he's you know, he said, it's not

672
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,519
going to accomplish anything unless you know, they we have

673
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:59,320
quote men like Mosley in reserve and a cadre around them.

674
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,559
Hitler said, But when I think that Mosley and more

675
00:57:01,559 --> 00:57:05,239
than nine thousand his supporters, including some belong to the

676
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,920
best families, are facing prison because they didn't want this war,

677
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:13,320
you know, he said that that's unconsortable, but also we

678
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,880
can use that in our favor, you know. But he

679
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:21,519
said it's essential that we cultivate this cadre. It's not

680
00:57:21,719 --> 00:57:25,039
enough to just kind of, you know for some sort

681
00:57:25,079 --> 00:57:30,840
of return of veterans from the McDonald the Ramsey McDonald

682
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,920
government in the National Coalition, you know, bringing down Churchill

683
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:39,000
because the war is a disaster, you know, we because

684
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,920
there's no guarantee there, like we need an alliance, you know,

685
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:46,800
we need people are ideologically committed, which was absolutely correct,

686
00:57:47,119 --> 00:57:50,599
you know, in terms of what the roy had to

687
00:57:50,639 --> 00:57:52,880
pull off, I mean, which, yes, that was a complete

688
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:57,559
long shot. And Hitler made manch and he said that

689
00:57:57,639 --> 00:58:02,239
like we need a Cromwell, which is really interesting. And uh,

690
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:08,599
I mean Hitler obviously had read in Carlisle, but that

691
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:13,239
was uh that was the climate. And yeah that's uh,

692
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,360
I guess I can stop there. Yeah, all those a

693
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,320
new scatter shot. That's essentially the story of the British

694
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,639
Free Corps. It's it's hard to piece together. Like I said,

695
00:58:21,679 --> 00:58:23,719
I think I'm I think I got better research shops

696
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:28,840
than many men. But uh, it's an esoteric topic. Uh,

697
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:31,480
there's a lot of like kind of lurid stuff written

698
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:34,039
about it in the seventies, Like there's this paperback when

699
00:58:34,039 --> 00:58:36,440
I think seventy seven called Hitler's Jackals I got in

700
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:40,480
somewhere here. It's just like crazy, there's like no citations.

701
00:58:40,519 --> 00:58:43,840
It's this crazy stuff. It's you know, it's like something

702
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:49,960
out of uh, some grindhouse Nazi spolitation movie. And don't

703
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:51,719
gonna be wrong. I like that kind of stuff, but

704
00:58:53,519 --> 00:58:56,840
it does not help if we're trying to identify, you know,

705
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,519
facts on the historical record. So this is what I

706
00:58:59,519 --> 00:59:01,960
could put together, because this topic is like a pet

707
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:07,800
kind of obsession of mine, like many esoteric things. So yeah,

708
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:12,519
I unless people are really truly thirsty for more Oswald

709
00:59:12,559 --> 00:59:14,519
Mosley or I have like questions they want me to

710
00:59:14,559 --> 00:59:18,119
cover or clarify, I think we can move on from

711
00:59:18,239 --> 00:59:22,559
Oswald Movesley and the the British Free Corps.

712
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:28,599
Speaker 1: Question about the American and the British press, how much

713
00:59:28,719 --> 00:59:31,639
was how much during the war were they reporting on

714
00:59:32,159 --> 00:59:38,159
the how international the German army was.

715
00:59:41,639 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 2: It's hard to say everything in the United States, anything

716
00:59:49,199 --> 00:59:51,920
that the press wanted to cover relating to the war,

717
00:59:52,239 --> 00:59:54,159
it had to go through the O W Y. The

718
00:59:54,199 --> 00:59:59,960
opposite of war information, you know when they had you know,

719
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:05,199
they they wouldn't allow photographs and dead Americans to be shown.

720
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,039
And when somebody, when somebody snuck them through, that was

721
01:00:09,079 --> 01:00:14,760
a huge deal. And uh, it was odd like what

722
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:16,920
they objected to do and what they didn't, but the

723
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:22,159
consistent uh got to the consistent pattern, the way they

724
01:00:22,239 --> 01:00:26,800
cast the Germans. And part of this ode part of

725
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,679
this odd the delegate situation of like having to negotiate

726
01:00:30,679 --> 01:00:33,559
with Darlan and like North Africa, who wasn't actually who

727
01:00:33,679 --> 01:00:37,239
was a fascist? They kind of had to pretend that

728
01:00:38,159 --> 01:00:41,719
this is the German army, you know, and yeah, there's

729
01:00:41,719 --> 01:00:45,519
some turncoat volunteers helping the SS, but these are the

730
01:00:45,559 --> 01:00:50,519
Hans just oppressing everybody. You know, there was kind of

731
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:57,239
without the omissions of the fact that this was a

732
01:00:57,719 --> 01:01:01,800
there was a million non Germans under arms. Like the

733
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,320
omission of that from always being reported kind of speaks

734
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:10,440
for itself, you know, like in the case of in

735
01:01:10,519 --> 01:01:16,000
the case of UK propaganda, it's a bit more nuanced,

736
01:01:16,079 --> 01:01:19,679
but I mean a lot of there's prejudices in Britain

737
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:25,199
against you know, like during World War One, despite the

738
01:01:25,199 --> 01:01:29,360
fact that like bismarcky in Germany, which Veilhelm in Germany

739
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,400
was very much the legacy of and Velhelm's wife wouldn't

740
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,039
even like Catholics in their house, but they're trying to.

741
01:01:36,079 --> 01:01:38,880
They kind of cast like the Hunts in World War

742
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:43,920
One is like these retro grade, like Catholic brutes, you know,

743
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:49,800
who are you know, they they they're they're they're not

744
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:53,079
in the modern age like like civilized people are. And

745
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:57,000
there was some aspect of that, you know, kind of caricaturing,

746
01:01:57,159 --> 01:02:00,239
like the Hunt is sort of like the stand in

747
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:05,280
for like European barbarism. But yeah, and stuff that went

748
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,639
to the O W Y. You never saw like any

749
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,719
statement of like you know, yeah, there's like a bunch

750
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:14,199
of you know, there's there's there's a bunch of Kazakhs

751
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:18,039
and Romanians and Italians and Frenchmen and Norwegians, you know,

752
01:02:18,199 --> 01:02:20,320
like engaging the US army right now, there was like

753
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:20,679
none of that.

754
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,159
Speaker 1: Not to mention the French that were the first to

755
01:02:25,239 --> 01:02:28,400
engage the the American forces.

756
01:02:28,719 --> 01:02:31,519
Speaker 2: Yeah and Afation tours, Yeah, exactly, they were just like

757
01:02:31,679 --> 01:02:32,920
Nazi forces.

758
01:02:33,159 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 1: All right, Well, if people want to do a Q

759
01:02:38,079 --> 01:02:40,960
and a we'll see what kind of questions I'll throw

760
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:43,039
it out there for people to let questions roll in

761
01:02:43,719 --> 01:02:46,079
and if there's enough, If there's enough, we can do

762
01:02:46,199 --> 01:02:49,559
a Q and A. But yeah, otherwise we'll move on

763
01:02:49,639 --> 01:02:52,079
from this as I think it was a great topic

764
01:02:52,159 --> 01:02:55,000
and like we didn't expect this to go seven episodes,

765
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:59,800
but but it Yeah, but it's perfectly fine. I think

766
01:03:00,519 --> 01:03:02,960
we had enough comments of people saying, yeah, I'm glad

767
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:07,480
it did so yeah, just do plugs real quick, and then.

768
01:03:08,679 --> 01:03:14,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. My substacks real Thomas seven seven seven,

769
01:03:14,599 --> 01:03:19,159
that substack dot com. That's my main platform. And I

770
01:03:19,199 --> 01:03:22,440
am a long last I uploading the the movie that

771
01:03:22,679 --> 01:03:27,119
my friend and I made the first Thomas TV like

772
01:03:27,199 --> 01:03:31,119
properly episode. You know, it's a couple of hours long.

773
01:03:32,719 --> 01:03:34,800
I had to figure out the best way to monetize it.

774
01:03:35,559 --> 01:03:38,400
I'll explain, and I promise I will upload it this weekend.

775
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:42,960
There was a couple of delays, and I'm dealing with

776
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,039
like identity the bullshit now when like my business bank account.

777
01:03:46,199 --> 01:03:48,599
I shouted this out on a sit rep on substack,

778
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,960
which is nobody's problem but my own, and I'm indemnified.

779
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:56,400
It'll be fine. It's just a hassle and obviously because

780
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,639
it's my business account, I can't like link anything to

781
01:03:59,679 --> 01:04:03,760
it until it bullshit gets resolved, so but it's common,

782
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:09,119
I promise. Thanks for being patient and on social media.

783
01:04:11,559 --> 01:04:17,079
My alt is at Capital Ria L underscore number seven

784
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,760
H O M A S seven seven seven and that's

785
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:22,559
where you can find me, or he con starts me

786
01:04:22,639 --> 01:04:25,280
under my garment name and I will come.

787
01:04:25,199 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 1: Up till the next subject. Thank you so much, Ben,

788
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:29,320
take care.

789
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:32,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for hosting Union