WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:06.320 Oh he is bolt. 2 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:07.960 It's showtime. 3 00:00:08.679 --> 00:00:10.599 People say, good money to see this movie. 4 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:12.160 When they go out to a theater. 5 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:15.960 They are cold sodas, hot popcorn and no monsters. 6 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:17.199 In the protection booth. 7 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:19.199 Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 8 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:20.839 Done it off. 9 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:49.000 There's some de fonse. 10 00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:57.840 Don don yu yak lend me. 11 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:12.040 Wink. 12 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:17.359 There's some in the you have also. 13 00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:36.799 Said, there's okay to do something more about ripon a book? 14 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:41.359 Would kiss you can get you go, ma'm let me 15 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:44.920 sure to Lenry yank Landry. 16 00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:57.200 There's not a mess, want a little well and freckles 17 00:01:57.200 --> 00:01:58.280 to us and all the show. 18 00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:02.879 Waiting sh men down here. 19 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:21.319 Because staff, because gout. You din't party yourself. 20 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:42.439 Emili Marco de la Ville music star, you need your 21 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:49.479 mond okay, would do SHOs them at hand. 22 00:02:55.680 --> 00:03:01.360 Said, come said see twelve the Miila no merchant propul unity. 23 00:03:03.159 --> 00:03:04.000 Lavis a c. 24 00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:07.120 You can comparent the long m. 25 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:16.000 Does that town with the prettiest chunder respected the comments. 26 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:21.439 Does it will uncomparably diverse? 27 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:24.960 Would imagine. 28 00:03:29.159 --> 00:03:42.479 Once there's some dominattanvela. 29 00:03:43.639 --> 00:04:09.800 Pierre Garce, Welcome to the projection booth. 30 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:11.759 I'm your host. Mike White joined me once again as 31 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:12.680 miss Sam Degan. 32 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:13.400 Hello. 33 00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:16.519 Also back in the booth is mister Andrew Leevold. 34 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:17.959 Great to be back. 35 00:04:18.759 --> 00:04:21.120 This week, we are looking at Jean Pierre Melville's Two 36 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:24.839 Men in Manhattan from nineteen fifty nine, and you'll never 37 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:28.920 believe what it's about. That's right, Two Men in Manhattan. 38 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:31.560 It's a detective story about a missing member of the 39 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:34.040 un who is being tracked down by a journalist and 40 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:36.800 a photographer, but then it turns into a film about 41 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:40.839 loyalty and ethics. We will be spoiling this film, oh, 42 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:42.680 which used to be very hard to find, but now 43 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:44.560 it's out on Blu ray and DVD. So if you 44 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:46.959 don't want anything ruined, please turn off the podcast and 45 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:50.639 come back after you've seen it. We will still be here. So, Sam, 46 00:04:50.839 --> 00:04:53.399 when was the first time you saw Two Men in Manhattan? 47 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:54.319 And what did you think? 48 00:04:55.240 --> 00:04:58.360 I don't know the exact year, but I want to 49 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:01.879 say maybe about ten years ago, maybe a little less. 50 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.879 I watched every single Melville film and this was indeed 51 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:09.959 very hard to track down, but I instantly fell in 52 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:12.800 love with it. I got to see it in a 53 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:16.360 theater here in New York last summer as part of 54 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:21.480 this Melville retrospective they coincidentally did for my birthday, not 55 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:25.279 on purpose. It just was wonderful timing, but we can pretend. 56 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:30.680 And I think I loved it even more seeing it 57 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:35.519 more recently. It's definitely not one of his classics, and 58 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:38.279 I don't think people should necessarily start with it, but 59 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:40.839 I absolutely love it, and it's great to see him 60 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:41.639 in a leading role. 61 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:44.720 Yeah, that is quite a treaty, isn't it, just to 62 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:48.560 have his presence throughout this entire film. And Andrew, how 63 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:49.120 about yourself? 64 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:52.879 Four or five years ago, when I binge watched all 65 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:56.600 of the Melville films that I'd never seen before, that 66 00:05:56.759 --> 00:06:02.879 I conscientiously tracked down and watched almost chronologically, just so 67 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:07.079 I could see each phase of Melville develop and fade 68 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.920 into the next one. I'm not as much of a 69 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:14.040 fan of this film as I am of the classic 70 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:20.399 period from Ledusium Suffla onwards, probably because I get a 71 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:23.680 little bored with the story. I find it a little 72 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:28.199 bit too pic are esque, I guess is the term 73 00:06:28.279 --> 00:06:33.199 that I'm scrappling for. It's just a little too procedural 74 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:37.439 for my taste. But I did find rewatching this film 75 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:42.920 last night that there were so many more factors of 76 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:47.680 interest in the film other than just the narrative. It's 77 00:06:48.519 --> 00:06:55.240 the whole linkage to Melville's personal story, his preoccupations with cinema, 78 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:59.800 with even with World War two, the pre war era. 79 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:05.839 It's all in there, and it's a very easy film 80 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:12.279 to slip into his permiabler and inhabit for ninety minutes. 81 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:13.319 Yeah. 82 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:15.480 I don't remember the first time I saw this one either, 83 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:18.920 And yeah, it was tough to find for a while. 84 00:07:19.160 --> 00:07:22.160 I know who is at Cohen Media eventually put it out. 85 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:24.879 They were the only show in town for a little 86 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:27.399 while with that one. The real hard one for me 87 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:30.199 to find was Magnet of Doom. That one took the 88 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:31.680 longest to find, and. 89 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:35.680 And when you write this letter, so hard to find shit, Yeah, 90 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:37.439 that one did. 91 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:40.000 I find a beaches of that one. That one was 92 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:42.920 tough as well. But yeah, magnetive Doom. I just remember 93 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:46.720 when I finally tracked that down, it was looked like 94 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:49.319 it was shot off of a bed sheet that somebody 95 00:07:49.399 --> 00:07:52.360 had like projected a really pink print of it. Ont 96 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:57.480 it was awful, and of course no subtitles whatsoever. So yeah, 97 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:00.639 I'm glad things have changed and I'm glad that all 98 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:04.879 fourteen of his films are now fairly easy to see, 99 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:07.839 which is great. And now people keep putting out box 100 00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:11.279 sets of his stuff, and I'm like, yes, please more Melville. 101 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:15.480 He doesn't have that extensive of a filmography. Please just 102 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:18.439 keep putting this out, and keep putting out better and 103 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:21.639 better versions. Because watching the print of Two Men in 104 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:25.399 Manhattan that I watched yesterday, oh my god, it is 105 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:29.079 just crystal clear and it looks so good. And those 106 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:32.919 shots of New York are gorgeous. And the interior shots 107 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:37.279 look a little stagy at times, but also crystal clear 108 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:39.799 and just looks so good. And I love the use 109 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:41.519 of the black and white, and of course I love 110 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:45.360 the vistas of New York City in nineteen fifty nine 111 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:48.039 or fifty eight, whenever this was shot, and just to 112 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:52.159 have that time capsule of those marquees. Sometimes they almost 113 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:55.919 look fake because they're just so well shot, and I'm 114 00:08:56.039 --> 00:08:58.519 just like, Nope, this is location. I can tell this 115 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:01.799 is location. But they just the brightness of the lights 116 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:04.960 and everything just looks Oh, just chef's kiss. 117 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.519 The print that's circulating now, the whites really pop out 118 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:14.000 of the black. You know that this is gorgeous cinematography 119 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:19.919 and like you said, a beautiful, perfectly shot time capsule 120 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:21.639 of nineteen fifty eight New York. 121 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:26.960 Yeah, and it's so crazy how different it looks based 122 00:09:27.039 --> 00:09:30.480 on the bootleg file that I first saw almost a 123 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:33.879 decade ago, which was really muddy and washed out, and 124 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:36.360 like you could tell, it was a beautiful film. But 125 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.639 getting to see some of these films properly restored or 126 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:46.639 even partly restored, it's such a treasure. And I think 127 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:50.639 with this one it feels like such a love letter 128 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:55.399 to New York obviously, even though all the interiors are 129 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:58.320 of course shot in France, in Paris, in the studio. 130 00:09:59.240 --> 00:10:01.759 But I think so with this you really start to 131 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:06.080 see the changes coming in his career, because the budget 132 00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:08.639 for this is bigger than Bubbla Flamber are still not 133 00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:14.159 big at the time by French major studio budgetary standards. 134 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:17.399 To your point Andrew earlier about how the plot doesn't 135 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:20.000 really do it for you, I feel like he was 136 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:24.120 not in this to care about the plot in a way. 137 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:26.519 It's like he just wanted to be able to shoot 138 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:29.720 in New York and it reminds me a little bit 139 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:32.240 of Bubbla flamber in the sense that it's a movie 140 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:34.799 about a guy hanging out in a city who just 141 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:38.399 loves that city, except he's transplanted. 142 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:45.279 The perfect place to transplant his main characters would be Manhattan. 143 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:50.320 If Babla Flomberg is his loved letter to Montmartre and Pigal, 144 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:56.519 then he found the perfect place in America, the center 145 00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:01.200 of vice, the burlesque houses and the strip joints, the 146 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:07.919 upmarket brothels of Manhattan. You know, he's he's found in America, 147 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:12.399 the perfect place to replicate that demimonde that he celebrates 148 00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:13.399 in Bubbla Flamberge. 149 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:16.600 And we have somewhat of a similar beginning too, with 150 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:20.960 the voiceover and the beautiful shots of the city, and 151 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.159 we've got those opening credits which are really nice with 152 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:26.879 there we're both in the backseat of a car and 153 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:29.519 going forward, and then we're also in the front seat 154 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:32.240 of the car and going forward and seeing all those credits, 155 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:34.440 I thought that it was all back, but then I 156 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:37.440 did notice some from the front as well. And then 157 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:41.000 we go into this voiceover talking about, you know, the 158 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:43.200 old gas lights, and we do have some images of 159 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:46.879 gaslights and this whole thing of the United Nations, and 160 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:50.000 it's interesting that he tells a little story about this 161 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:52.600 Irish boy in Italian and a Jew, and it's like 162 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:57.519 these three coming together. The trio neatly symbolized the great 163 00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:00.159 glass building on First Avenue, and I was like, oh, oh, 164 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:01.960 it's their own little United Nations. 165 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:02.480 That's nice. 166 00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:05.279 And I'm like, this is very like you're saying, very 167 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:09.559 similar to Bob la Flambert, where you're visiting a mam 168 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:12.519 matra and going around the streets and then up to 169 00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:15.159 Bob's place. I'm like, oh, this is a very nice 170 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:18.600 way to set the stage. And it takes a while 171 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:22.679 before we really get going here. We get this very 172 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:26.519 beautiful poetic at least according to the subtitles, this whole 173 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:29.799 thing talking about we're at this meeting of the United 174 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:34.600 Nations and they're cleverly using some stock footage, and yet 175 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:37.879 there's one person that's not there, and there was an 176 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:40.919 empty chair there today, And then really becomes this whole 177 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:45.840 mystery what happened to this French diplomat and becomes the 178 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:47.960 whole that's the whole crux of the story is trying 179 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:50.960 to find this guy, and it's interesting how they find 180 00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:54.399 him and then when they find him, where they find him, 181 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:57.360 how they find him, and what they decide to do 182 00:12:57.480 --> 00:12:58.799 with the information around that. 183 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:02.399 Yeah, For as much as it is set in New 184 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:06.919 York and does have that great exterior location photography, this 185 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:12.080 is a film about France and France's political reputation, and 186 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:18.440 I think Melville is often unfairly thought of as being 187 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:24.919 a kind of nationalistic conservative filmmaker. Sometimes, probably because he 188 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:28.559 served in the war and because of his experiences in 189 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:31.360 the resistance and how they show up in his films, 190 00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:36.879 was associated more with this kind of old world like 191 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:41.240 we need to celebrate France's glory type of figure. But 192 00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:44.799 he's not really and I think you see it nowhere 193 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:49.399 more clearly than in this film Army of Shadows. Yes, 194 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:54.759 that's a different conversation, but here he's really critical of 195 00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:59.480 this French tendency to say, we have to sweep certain 196 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:01.960 problems under the rug and make it seem like they 197 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:06.039 didn't exist, because the most important thing is the reputation 198 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:10.639 of France and how France's reputation is reflected in its 199 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:15.480 political leaders. And so having this story be focused on 200 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:19.360 the UN which, by the way, first Avenue, I was 201 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:22.039 there a lot last week, it does not still look 202 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:27.960 like this sadly much ugly air. But it's just interesting 203 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:32.799 that even though he set this film in New York 204 00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:36.080 in the US, it's not an American story. It's a 205 00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:36.720 French story. 206 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:40.639 Also, look at the timeline of Melville and where this 207 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:44.200 film sits, and this comes out in nineteen fifty nine, 208 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:48.600 the same year as the other key New Wave films 209 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:55.240 made by men who are almost twenty years younger than Melville. 210 00:14:55.639 --> 00:14:59.639 Melville as a young man has memories of that pre 211 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:06.360 idealism and the figure of the missing diplomat symbolizes that 212 00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:09.519 ideal that he would have looked up to as a 213 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:14.039 young man. But then twenty years later, after the war 214 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:17.240 and with all of the post war cynicism, he also 215 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:21.879 can see that figure as being a deeply flawed one. 216 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:26.559 As a mature man of late thirties, early forties, he's 217 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:30.360 able to say, yes, this man was a great person, 218 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:34.039 but he was also a woman, as a liar, etc 219 00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:38.000 et cetera. So he's able to have a much more 220 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:44.320 balanced view of that individual. Whereas the young Turks of 221 00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:48.039 the New Wave would have been saying, well, let's reject 222 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:54.240 all of that World War II bullshit let's completely forge 223 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:59.919 a new path, all about modernism and deconstruction and so forth. 224 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:04.679 So you can see the schism between Melville's films and 225 00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:08.720 the New Wave appearing with this movie in nineteen fifty nine, 226 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:14.039 that this is a film that tackles issues that the 227 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:17.120 New Wave directors don't really want to touch because it's 228 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:19.960 not part of their milieu. It's not part of this 229 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:23.600 new path that there wanting to forge well. 230 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:25.240 And I think some of that has to do with 231 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:28.679 the form and the structure of the film, which is 232 00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:34.159 much more classical cinema, much more referring back to thirties 233 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:39.240 and forties Hollywood, which the New Wave directors did in 234 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:42.399 a different way. I don't even think it's just the 235 00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:47.200 way that he represents the politician. But it also has 236 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:51.200 to do with the way the story itself unfolds and 237 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:55.080 how the characters are presented as people like these are 238 00:16:55.360 --> 00:17:01.679 the two protagonists, a journalist and this wonderfully disreputable photographer. 239 00:17:01.879 --> 00:17:05.119 They're middle aged guys, and so you don't really have 240 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:09.200 too many of those early New wave films about middle 241 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:13.400 aged people watching too many of the like nineteen fifty eight, 242 00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:17.279 fifty nine, nineteen sixty watching too many of those French 243 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:20.000 new wave films in a row. It's like these are 244 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:25.359 all about annoying teenagers or like annoying early twenty somethings. 245 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:27.640 So the vibe here is very different. 246 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:30.599 Yeah, well Melville would have been hanging out with those 247 00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:38.039 bita jaded photo journalists journalists, and so he's able to 248 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:42.480 draw from that rather than having his protagonists to these 249 00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:45.039 young Brady caricatures. 250 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:51.880 Really Melville at this point he's still forming his reputation 251 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:57.359 with the Silence of the Sea list if on then yeah, 252 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:00.799 The Terrible Children, bab La Filambert and Babla flan Berry 253 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.720 is a crime movie. And then we go back into 254 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:06.680 this one. We've got Lean Moore in Priest, which is 255 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:09.440 definitely not a crime movie. Then they do Lo and 256 00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:13.160 it's just we have this reputation of him being this 257 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:16.920 crime director, but there's a really lot of crime in 258 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:20.359 this film. There's like an attempted crime, I guess you 259 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:22.720 could say with the photographer in the way that he's 260 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:26.200 setting up a scene later on, but when you find 261 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:29.920 out that there's this diplomat who's missing, you're like, oh, well, 262 00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:31.880 there's got to be foul play. He must have had 263 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:35.680 his fingers in something, but that it ends up spoilers 264 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:38.640 being a heart attack that killed him, rather than oh, 265 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:40.960 he was trying to keep this secret, or he had 266 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:43.759 a stash of Nazi gold or something some sort of 267 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:47.400 like crime element to it, because you're following this whole 268 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:50.359 story and you're just like, Okay, we're going from this person, 269 00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:52.799 this person to this person, mostly women. We're just going 270 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:55.599 from woman to woman and a woman, and then eventually 271 00:18:55.960 --> 00:18:58.920 we're going to find the diplomat, and then eventually we're 272 00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:01.240 going to find No, there was no foul play. No, 273 00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:04.920 there is no Nazi gold, there is no reason why 274 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:09.319 he was killed. There's nothing that's secret other than apparently 275 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:12.319 his war record, which than his the one guy has 276 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:14.839 to really put out there and just be like, this 277 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:18.240 guy's a hero. You cannot touch this guy. You should 278 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.880 not be saying anything bad about this guy. Reminded me 279 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:25.319 a little bit of like when Jose Ferrare talks to 280 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:27.839 the guys in The King Mutiny, is just like, oh, 281 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:29.039 you guys got your way. 282 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:29.359 Huh. 283 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:33.160 When I was studying the law and mister Keifer here 284 00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:37.240 was writing his stories and you were tearing up the 285 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:40.599 playing fields of your old Princeton, who was standing guard 286 00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:44.200 over this fat, dumb, happy country ours Eh not us? 287 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.079 Oh no, we knew you couldn't make any money in 288 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:49.839 the service, So who did the dirty work for us? 289 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:52.640 Queed did a lot of other. 290 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:55.279 Guys just the way he reads those guys the riot act, 291 00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:58.640 and it's like shaming them, and it feels like the 292 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.319 real thing that happens in this movies. They get shamed 293 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:03.599 into doing the right thing, or at least del Mad 294 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.599 the photographer gets shamed because Moreau. Interestingly enough, you're talking 295 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:11.319 about where is Melville, Well, Melville the character doesn't seem 296 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:13.960 to be aligned necessarily with Melville the writer director. 297 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:17.079 Part of why I think of Bubba Flimberg and Two 298 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:21.039 Men in Manhattan as being this kind of double feature 299 00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:26.680 is because they both subvert crime and mystery genre tropes. 300 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:31.640 So much like Bubba Flimber on the surface is a 301 00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:35.319 heist film, much like on the surface this is a 302 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:39.279 political murder mystery. But the way that he treats the 303 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.880 actual crime in both of them, it's like this part 304 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:45.640 isn't important. We are just here to hang out with 305 00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:51.359 these characters. And even though yes, he is very different 306 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:54.240 from the new wave directors, I think with these two 307 00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:57.920 films in particular, you can see how much he influenced 308 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:00.400 them and why they looked up to him him as 309 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:04.680 a sort of godfather, because he is taking again those 310 00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:09.640 classic thirties and forties mystery and crime tropes and saying, well, 311 00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:11.599 what if we made a film with those tropes but 312 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:14.119 turn them completely on their heads. And that's exactly what 313 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:17.880 Godar does in Breathless. It's yes, there's a crime, and 314 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:20.920 yes there's this young guy who's maybe going to go 315 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.240 on some sort of spree, but that's not really the 316 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:27.920 important focus. It's such a weird period in his career, which, 317 00:21:28.519 --> 00:21:31.400 like you pointed out, it pretty much all changes in 318 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:35.160 nineteen sixty two with La Dulos, when he really becomes 319 00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:39.440 much more associated with crime in gangster movies. And I 320 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:44.079 just love this period where he's playing around and figuring 321 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:48.400 things out and is much more interested in the connections 322 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:50.960 between people than the actual plots. 323 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:55.279 I think you could argue that without Bubla Flambeau and 324 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:58.240 Two Men in Manhattan there would be no Breathless, that 325 00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:04.200 those films are so so crucial in the language of 326 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:09.359 the New Wave. But where Melville differs from god Art 327 00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:13.599 is that he is both a formalist and an experimentalist. 328 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:18.640 That there is this embracing of commercialism and art of 329 00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:28.599 American and also European sort of experimentalism. I think that 330 00:22:28.759 --> 00:22:36.559 embracing of both art and commerce definitely it explains all 331 00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:39.079 of Melville's films in the sixties and seventies. 332 00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:42.359 Yeah, and I think it connects him the most closely 333 00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:47.000 to somebody like Claude Chabral, who those new wave whipper 334 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:50.880 snappers would be nothing without because he wasn't as old 335 00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:53.160 as Melville, but he was a couple of years older 336 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:57.200 than the rest of them, or with money from the 337 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:00.799 family that he married into wisely, he was able to 338 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.440 help finance a lot of those early new wave films. 339 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:06.440 But then I think by the mid sixties they started 340 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.960 to look down on him because, like Melville, all he 341 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:14.319 cared about was making films, and mostly making films the 342 00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:16.680 way he wanted to make them, Like he wasn't. Neither 343 00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:19.720 of them were trying to burn the establishment down really, 344 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:23.160 not like Godard. They were just trying to go on 345 00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:26.839 an adventure of their own making and do what they 346 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:29.119 wanted to do. And I think they both wound up 347 00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:32.680 turning to crime films because that was where they were 348 00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:35.240 able to make money. So it's like you see that 349 00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:37.440 in both of them. I think you see this really 350 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:44.279 fascinating blend of an experimental director making the films they 351 00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:48.680 want to make that are often passionate projects, but also 352 00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:53.599 making films like they're not trying to be anti mainstream, 353 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:56.440 they're just trying to make the films they want to make. 354 00:23:56.599 --> 00:24:01.440 The independent film might be because, yeah, especially especially Melville, 355 00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:03.759 who has to build his own studio just to be 356 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:05.599 able to make the kind of films that he wanted 357 00:24:05.599 --> 00:24:09.920 to make so ballsy, yeah, and ultimately he wanted to 358 00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.920 make films like The Asphalt Jungle, so he venerated John Houston. 359 00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:19.920 In the way that Chabrol venerated Hitchcock. And it's because 360 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:26.480 of that embracing of mainstream Hollywood that put them in 361 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:30.160 to do paraeters of the New Waves. They were independent 362 00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:35.839 of schools of thought such as the New Wave that 363 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:40.519 were very didactic in their approach. These guys just wanted 364 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:44.799 to make films because they loved cinema, not because they 365 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:46.680 wanted to make a political statement. 366 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:49.880 The more you watch these films as you age, I 367 00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:54.119 think it's so easy to see young Godard and Truffau 368 00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:59.839 as suffering from the typical twenty something problem where you're 369 00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:03.400 so convinced you're right, whereas I think with Melville and 370 00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:06.519 Chabral they were just like, yeah, I'm here to make films. 371 00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:08.599 I don't need to be right. I don't need everyone 372 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:12.240 to agree with me. I just want to make something 373 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:18.880 beautiful and poetic and also entertaining to watch. And I 374 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:23.759 think with Two Men in Manhattan, he's still really reminding 375 00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:28.920 you that he is an independent filmmaker and was really 376 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:31.440 and I think it's easy to forget this, but was 377 00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:35.200 really the first person making independent films in France outside 378 00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:40.000 the studio system, and it is frustrating to see them 379 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:43.400 push back. And like, the reception to Two Men in 380 00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:47.400 Manhattan was not great. I think the mainstream French audience thought, 381 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:51.119 why is this guy making a movie about Americans who 382 00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:54.119 cares like we want French films, even though it's clearly 383 00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:58.279 a story about France and French people, And even the 384 00:25:58.359 --> 00:26:01.440 New Wave was kind of like, yeah, it's fine. And 385 00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:06.039 decades later, I think people started to see it for 386 00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:10.279 being as interesting as it is, but it's like, this 387 00:26:10.519 --> 00:26:15.000 is still a young independent filmmaker in what is basically 388 00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:18.640 the first decade of his career. He's having a good time. 389 00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:20.799 He's in New York to solve a ministery. 390 00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:23.359 Was that a Ghostbuster's reference? 391 00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:25.279 We've been going about this all wrong. 392 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:27.599 This mister Steve buff is okay, he's a sailor. He's 393 00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:28.160 in New York. 394 00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:29.359 We get this guy laid. 395 00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:30.319 We won't have any trouble. 396 00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:35.960 He's working things out as any good experimentalist, as any 397 00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:41.640 true auto would, and he's working with what would appear 398 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:48.279 to be competing aesthetics documentary style, handheld footage, more formal 399 00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:55.519 studio bound sets, and obviously, to some people who were 400 00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:59.799 bound up in the new rules of the New Waves, 401 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:07.240