WEBVTT 1 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:18.239 April twenty three, twenty twenty five, allegedly according to that 2 00:00:18.280 --> 00:00:22.640 thing we call a calendar, and this is the o'celli effect. 3 00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:27.399 Now you probably already know that, but you know, being 4 00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:30.879 that you already know that, and being that it is 5 00:00:30.920 --> 00:00:34.119 this part of April and it is a Wednesday, I 6 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:36.359 thought it would be a good idea to get into 7 00:00:36.399 --> 00:00:39.719 something that has been in the news lately for sure, 8 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:45.560 but also has been I don't know, just kind of 9 00:00:46.280 --> 00:00:52.079 a strange, a strange sort of situation. Now I'm actually 10 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:54.439 looking at, believe it or not. I was just looking 11 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:59.520 at something that I can do to record the call 12 00:00:59.560 --> 00:01:01.719 and on Skype, because I was going to do that 13 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:04.760 just you know, as an added sort of thing right 14 00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:06.799 here at the end, and so on and so forth, 15 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:08.640 because Skype is about to go away, and I had 16 00:01:08.680 --> 00:01:11.519 this whole thing set up in mind with Larry Hancock, 17 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:13.920 who is my guest. And you know what's funny, They've 18 00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:20.079 taken away my record option on Skype. So whole thing 19 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:23.000 I went through setting up the show no reason to 20 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:26.480 even bother. I can still do captions, I can still 21 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:30.319 translate calls, I can put calls on hold, all that stuff. 22 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:36.799 But guess what no more video recording from Skype? The 23 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:40.120 end of an era? Larry, Anyway, what are we talking 24 00:01:40.120 --> 00:01:43.879 about tonight? It's not going to be Skype. It is 25 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:50.319 instead going to be the other Kennedy who was assassinated 26 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:53.959 in the nineteen sixties. Why. Well, in recent news, what 27 00:01:54.120 --> 00:01:59.319 have we been confronted with? Trump dropped more documentation out there? Right, 28 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:02.079 he did the JFF thing. But now there's a records 29 00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:07.079 collection at Nara, Okay, at the archives over there at 30 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:09.879 archives dot org, and it's the records related to the 31 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:13.680 assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy. And it made some 32 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:17.120 news for a minute. People said, wow, this is amazing. 33 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:19.520 We got a whole bunch of new stuff. And indeed 34 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:22.360 we got a few new things out of it. But 35 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:25.879 I'm gonna ask Larry about what we actually got out 36 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:28.960 of it, because you know, there's been material over the years, 37 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:30.560 and I'm gonna give you links to all this stuff. 38 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:34.199 I'm mentioning, by the way, but there's been material over 39 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:37.719 the years. Columbia University put out something in twenty twenty, apparently, 40 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:43.159 you know, related to the RFK assassination. There's an article 41 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:46.520 which is over in the CIA reading room titled The 42 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:50.759 Shaw's Secret Police are here. In case you don't know 43 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:53.159 about the Shaw and the secret Police, the Savak, I know. 44 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:55.879 I brought it up on shows before when I talked 45 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:59.199 about the CIA's involvement in the overthrow of Mohammed Mozadek, 46 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:03.400 who was a democratically elected leader of Iran, and the 47 00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:08.639 implementation or the reimplementation or the reimportation or gee, what 48 00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:11.280 do you do? You install a king, don't you? And 49 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:16.199 a Shaw in Arabic is a king. We reinstalled our CIA, 50 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:19.360 did not you and me? We reinstalled the Shaw of Iran, 51 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:24.120 his son from the previous Shaw of Iran. And if 52 00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:26.120 you're old enough to remember, in the late seventies there 53 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:29.800 was a whole controversy about Iran wanting to put him 54 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:32.680 on trial and return the Shaw to Iran. There was 55 00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:35.360 also a hostage crisis and all that good stuff. That's 56 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:38.120 how we got Nightline and the countdown of the many 57 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:40.560 days of this is day number one hundred and whatever 58 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:44.439 of the hostage crisis went on for a long time. 59 00:03:45.719 --> 00:03:50.039 Did I go away from the RFK discussion? Maybe maybe not. 60 00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:55.080 Sir An Serhannah Palestinian, somebody who was allegedly angry with 61 00:03:55.199 --> 00:04:01.680 Robert F. Kennedy for what support of Israel. And then 62 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:05.240 in later years we've heard about RFK himself as Attorney 63 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:09.000 General seeking to what make Apak a sort of a 64 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:14.240 foreign enemy among us being listed as hostile because of 65 00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:16.600 the spying and this and that and so on and 66 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:19.720 so forth. And then you get into the strange tropes 67 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:22.360 of people thinking that maybe the massad was connected to 68 00:04:22.839 --> 00:04:28.079 the Kennedy assassination, but anyway, not the Robert F. Kennedy assassination, 69 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:32.000 by the way, but the JFK assassination. Meanwhile, a lot 70 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:36.879 of unanswered questions for a guy named Sir Han Bashir 71 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:42.160 sar Hahn, yes both names first and last same, but anyway, 72 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:45.800 questions about his family. We've gone on this show over 73 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:47.759 the years. We've gone over a lot of things over 74 00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:50.160 the years, and Larry Hancock has been with us for 75 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:52.079 a lot of it. Of course, carmin and Sabastano with 76 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:56.560 us as well. Carmine the author of Two Princes and 77 00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:00.959 a King, the two princes being John F. Kennedy and FK, 78 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.240 and the King being Doctor Martin Luther King Jr. He 79 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:09.000 focused on those three assassinations. But I got to say, 80 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:14.879 one of the most underserved discussions, explorations, or even revelations 81 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:19.439 that come out of anything has been regarding the RFK assassination, 82 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:23.000 which again was investigated through Special Unit. Senator. There's a 83 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:24.920 book by that name. It's an old one, but it's 84 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:27.720 still valid to read it and check it out since 85 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:30.480 the guy who headed it up wrote it, as I 86 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:34.560 remember anyway. But anyway, a lot of stuff going on, 87 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:37.680 a lot of discussion, and a lot of it ill 88 00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:43.120 informed or uninformed, generally speaking in my estimation. But enough 89 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:45.439 out of me. How about the author of a ton 90 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:48.759 of books on my bookshelf, a guy who's written about 91 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:51.639 the RFK assassination. Wait a minute, Larry, you might have 92 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:56.600 written less about RFK than you did about the other 93 00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:59.519 two assassinations as far as stuff that's been published. Or 94 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:03.920 maybe I'm wrong, No, maybe that's just the books. I'm confused, Larry. 95 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:06.360 But of course you're the author of a great many books, 96 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:09.800 not just on the JFK assassination, which, of course the 97 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:13.120 Oswald puzzle is the latest, and that's what I highly 98 00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:16.360 highly recommend, But I recommend all of your stuff, including 99 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:19.800 tipping Point, and someone would have talked any version of it. 100 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:24.079 Those are all great for JFK and MLK the awful 101 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:26.959 Grace of God. And what is a Killing King? I 102 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.839 think is the other title? Is that right? I don't 103 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:31.480 want to turn around and try to squint to read 104 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:33.519 my book spines? Is that the other title? 105 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:35.959 But Larry Killing King would beat? 106 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:38.839 Okay? I got it. See, Look sometimes I get stuff right. 107 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:42.959 But RFK, even in your writing, although I know you've 108 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:47.240 done a ton of study on it, I would say 109 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:52.040 maybe I haven't published as much on it. Anyway, I'd 110 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:55.439 like to get your impressions about the recently distributed stuff 111 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:59.240 what it means. And again, my humble estimation is that 112 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:03.319 I've only never seen some of the photographic images, and 113 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:05.920 some of this stuff sort of organized a little differently. 114 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:09.240 The exhibits and the way they scan them today look 115 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:12.759 a little different than when they used to press things 116 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:16.240 up against the photocopy machine. I guess, you know, in 117 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:18.959 the old days, and you got stuff from the archives 118 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:23.360 there in Sacramento, California, I think it is. But either way, 119 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:26.079 a lot of studies still to be done and a 120 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:29.519 lot of things still to be known about the RFK assassination. 121 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:32.600 And again that's my estimation. But like I said, enough 122 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:36.199 outam me, Larry. First off, how you doing tonight? And 123 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:38.079 you know, if you want to talk to me about 124 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:39.959 these things, I'm going to give links to the guys 125 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:42.959 in the chat room and also in the show notes 126 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:45.639 the articles that you and I discussed that I was 127 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:49.600 going to put on video can't now. But also I'm 128 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:51.959 going to give them the links to the new records 129 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:55.240 collection and anything else we mentioned along the way here 130 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:58.199 as best I can. But let's get you know, the 131 00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:01.399 word from the best recent urse we have, which is you. 132 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:04.199 So first, how you doing tonight? And second, you know, 133 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:07.680 go ahead and start commenting where you want regarding RFK, 134 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:12.839 the assassination and the most recent action regarding you know, 135 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:19.120 transparency anyway in the investigations or whatever on RFK, please 136 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:20.920 you bet, Chuck. 137 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:23.240 And sure life is difficult. 138 00:08:23.319 --> 00:08:26.279 It becomes more difficult when you I think we're all 139 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:30.319 going to be split in like three pieces with records 140 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:35.000 releases on MLK, RFK and JFK, And you know, can 141 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:38.080 you really deal deal with three of them in real 142 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:40.240 time when you're talking about lots of information? 143 00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:42.200 But yeah, I think we're coping. 144 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:44.039 We have tools to allow us to do that, and 145 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:45.600 there are a lot of people looking at it. But 146 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:49.480 just to set some background, it is true that the 147 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:52.519 one assassination that I have not written about in terms 148 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:55.720 of a book is the RFK assassination. 149 00:08:57.080 --> 00:08:57.559 No book. 150 00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:02.559 There pretty extensive autograph that we didn't go out for 151 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:07.679 a book on. The monograph is called Incomplete Justice, and 152 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:10.720 it's on the Mary Pharaoh website and it's it's extensive 153 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:14.000 with a lot of sources. But the difference in the 154 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:17.840 two is one of the big things that we're lacking 155 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:20.720 in regard to RFK and and the sort of thing 156 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:23.720 that that Stu Wexler and I who was working with 157 00:09:23.799 --> 00:09:28.639 me on an RFK and MLK both found a problem 158 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.399 was that the House Select Committee did, of course collect 159 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:38.399 a lot of records and documents and it's it's invested. 160 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:40.480 They were supposed to deal with all three is at 161 00:09:40.519 --> 00:09:45.919 political assassinations. They did JFK in great depth, MLK and 162 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:50.840 lesser rep depth, and RFK not at all. So there 163 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:57.600 was not an HSCA collection. The HSCA didn't go back 164 00:09:57.639 --> 00:10:02.120 to the FBI or CIA and really probe into whether 165 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:05.080 or not there had been a federal investigation into what 166 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:09.679 was a state crime in California that that whole element 167 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:13.039 was missing. So we had a very incomplete picture, far 168 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:16.360 less complete than we did in the two other assassinations, 169 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:20.080 and we just didn't feel without that part of the picture, 170 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.919 it was too speculative. So that's why no book ever 171 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:28.080 came out of it. And we put what we could 172 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:32.720 in what we had learned into that monograph. And that's 173 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:35.679 that's an important stage for what people are talking about, 174 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:40.399 because everybody's talking about file releases without asking the question 175 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:43.759 of what file and where? You know, where has this 176 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:47.279 stuff been all this time? Was this stuff actually not 177 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:48.879 released before it? 178 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:50.679 Has it been hidden? Is it secret? 179 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:56.559 And what we're learning in almost all cases is what 180 00:10:56.600 --> 00:10:59.840 we're seeing now is material that we've either seen before 181 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:05.120 through one of the collections efforts, the HSCA, you know, 182 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:09.799 the warrant Commission for JFK, the Assassination's Record Review Board 183 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:14.200 for JFK. That's all put new stuff into the collections, 184 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:17.600 which is why we're seeing so much stuff, but stuff 185 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:23.080 that we've seen before, just with a few redactions lifted. 186 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:23.840 Right now, I haven't. 187 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:26.200 I mean that there's good stuff in there, but that's 188 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:30.360 much more familiar to us because there were collections efforts. 189 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:32.120 Right now I want to just ask you a question 190 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:35.399 here and interrupt you at exactly this point, because in 191 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.879 a lot of cases, what we're seeing here now, though, 192 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:41.799 are also copies of something that may have been shown 193 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:44.799 to us before, but now it's a copy. Let me 194 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:48.559 give you it. For instance, if the Dallas Police sent 195 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:52.320 a report to the FBI, Now the FBI has a 196 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:55.120 copy of it. The Dallas Police have a copy of it. 197 00:11:55.480 --> 00:12:00.399 The FBI sends that same report over to the CIA, 198 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:02.559 now has a copy of it. I'm doing this in 199 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:06.240 a very oversimplified way, but each one of them has 200 00:12:06.279 --> 00:12:10.279 a copy of essentially the same thing, and each one 201 00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:13.440 of them might actually dump this into the collection, and 202 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:18.080 now you have a triplicate of the same report. That's 203 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:21.240 one thing. But the other thing I wanted to ask 204 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:24.039 you about really quickly. And I've seen speculations about this, 205 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:28.360 and I have mixed feelings, because there were people that 206 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:32.799 stated that the RFK assassination was going to be part 207 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:36.759 of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, and then it 208 00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:40.759 was decided that it was not something they were going 209 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:44.240 to go into because it was a little more definitive. 210 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:47.279 They caught the assassin right there. It wasn't like they 211 00:12:47.320 --> 00:12:49.679 captured him later in a movie theater, or caught him 212 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:52.799 after he left the country, you know, as in the 213 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:56.279 MLK and JFK cases. Right, Either they caught him sometime 214 00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:58.399 later in that day at a movie theater, or they 215 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:01.200 wound up with a man hunt. He wound up leading 216 00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:02.919 the country, and they got him back James L. 217 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:03.120 Ray. 218 00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:06.240 So therefore it was sort of like, that's more of 219 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:09.720 a case closed situation. And in the seventies it was 220 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:12.759 sort of determined, maybe we will, maybe we won't. Never mind, 221 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:16.120 it's already kind of solved. Is that an accurate portrayal 222 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:19.960 of what you understand? And also what about my idea 223 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:24.399 that sometimes we have things in triplicate because agencies communicate 224 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:26.919 with each other. And now I have, you know, like 225 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:29.720 I said, the CIA and the FBI's copy of what 226 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:32.159 I already have from the Dallas police because they sent 227 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:33.279 it to them in the first place. 228 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:37.879 On the first point, no, I don't think that's what 229 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:44.120 happened with the RFK and the HSCA. Literally the point 230 00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:48.360 was the House Select Committee ran out of time, they 231 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:52.480 ran out of money, and they had to make some choices, 232 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:59.360 and quite frankly, black legislators, the Black Caucus, the Black 233 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:05.320 legislator had been very important to pushing the HFCA and 234 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:09.279 lobbying for its creation, being behind it. So there's a 235 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:13.159 very there's a very strong voice to look at JFK 236 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:18.320 and MLK, not not to ignore RFK, but the point 237 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:21.360 is those those were the starting points, that's where the 238 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:23.240 real kickoff was. 239 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:27.120 And this they just literally ran out a time of money. 240 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:30.080 They could not even complete everything that they had wanted 241 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:31.639 to do on those two subjects. 242 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:35.519 So I don't think there's because if it had been 243 00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:39.240 as you described, I mean, quite frankly, James el Ray 244 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:42.480 is there, he's convicted. 245 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:45.039 You know that that. 246 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:48.080 Was not you know, you wouldn't set it aside because yes, 247 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:54.039 somebody had been convicted in the crime legally, just as 248 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:57.320 Sir Han so to that extent, Sir Hann and James R. 249 00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:01.159 Al Ray are equivalent. There's no just because someone has 250 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:03.519 has gone to trial and been convicted. I don't think 251 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:08.639 that would that did not parse out RFK. I really 252 00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:10.720 think it was a matter of time and money. 253 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:12.879 Okay, well it may have been a matter of time, 254 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:15.320 and I you know me, I don't like to counterpoint 255 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:17.440 you very much, but I but I will counter with this. 256 00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:20.200 G Robert Blakey had stayed it in several places, and 257 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:22.240 I've seen a record he returned some of the money 258 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:25.039 at the end of the HSCA. He had more money 259 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:28.320 left that he did not use even at the end. 260 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:31.320 So I I don't know if they ran out of time, 261 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:34.919 or they ran out of interest, or but something happened there. 262 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:37.960 And I just was wondering if you knew about the 263 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:42.240 potential for them covering RFK, because it's an it's an 264 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:43.919 open question to me if they were even going to 265 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:48.480 do it, but but Blakeney to do it, if he 266 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:51.360 returned money, it was simply because they ran out of 267 00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:55.000 time and didn't have the time to spend it. Fair enough, 268 00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:57.600 I just want to make they absolutely were they were 269 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:00.120 supposed to do it, There's no doubt about that. And 270 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:02.159 I had to counter that because I know that I 271 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:04.360 got about three listeners out there that would have written 272 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:06.559 to me telling me, gee, Robert blake returned money. And 273 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:09.799 here's the I know he did, Okay, So I just 274 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:12.200 want to make that clear, and that's why I did it. 275 00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:15.639 But running at it, But the interest isn't important here 276 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.919 because we had a serious public outcry after the Suppruter 277 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:22.240 film was shown on TV nationally, and of course it 278 00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:26.000 had been stewing in a cottage industry. I hate to 279 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:28.159 use these terms because now I sound like Gerald Posner, 280 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:31.960 but in a cottage industry of books and films and 281 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:36.639 various speculations that were out there in public that were 282 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:41.879 causing public discourse and pressure on Congress. Literally. Okay, there 283 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:45.840 was the Citizens' Council, you know, there were you know, 284 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:48.519 going after the truth. There was all of that. It's 285 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:51.240 sort of like the culmination that brought together the ARRB, 286 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:54.279 where you had people pushing and pushing for the files 287 00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:57.240 for years, and the push over the line was the 288 00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:00.919 Oliver Stone film because that upset people that they you know, 289 00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:02.519 what do you mean, I can't see this up until 290 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:05.960 twenty twenty nine, you know, and we almost made it 291 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:08.200 to twenty twenty nine before we got it a home. Anyway, 292 00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:11.680 another story, But my point is I just wanted to 293 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:13.640 bring that up and also bring up the idea that 294 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:15.680 some people say, well, RFK might have been in the 295 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:20.000 HSCA exploration too, since you brought it up and there 296 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:23.400 is no HSCA for him. There is a lot of 297 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:25.319 things that are not and there's not as many films 298 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:28.200 about Bobby, even though there were a few films. Yes, 299 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:32.680 there were a few documentaries, but Hollywood didn't grab onto it, 300 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:35.720 and when they did, they did weird things like that 301 00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:39.400 old thing about the hotel. Remember they followed the hairdresser 302 00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:42.319 and the hotel guy around for the whole movie during 303 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:44.279 the assassination. I forget what the name of that was. 304 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:48.880 Might have actually been called Bobby that film right. Anyway, 305 00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:52.160 Either way, Hollywood didn't grab it as much. TV didn't 306 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.599 grab it as much. It just didn't cause the same 307 00:17:55.640 --> 00:18:01.680 public outcry. And the King thing definitely had had a well, 308 00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:06.160 a racial element to it that made black caucus members, 309 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:08.920 you know, really anxious to put their two cents in, 310 00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:12.440 and that's what made sense there. So it does make 311 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:16.799 sense from a this was politically advantageous and maybe RFK wasn't. 312 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:21.359 Would I would categorize it more like that. But did 313 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:23.160 they run out of time? Were they under all sorts 314 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:24.960 of pressure to just get it done and over with? 315 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:27.640 Seems like it when you listen to Blakey and you 316 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:30.000 listen to other people that you know were removed before 317 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:33.200 Blakey took over. So there's a lot to be said 318 00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:36.480 there for that, I just wanted to qualify hold that, Larry. 319 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.759 Sorry, but I think the bottom line is there was 320 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:45.640 no HSCA collection of RFK materials, right, So if we 321 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:48.079 want to step back of saying it's like, okay, where 322 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:48.839 is this stuff? 323 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:52.920 What are the files that are being released? No, there's no. 324 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:57.839 RFK collection at NARA. From the work of the HSCA 325 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:01.599 to consolidate things, to collect things to do an investigation, 326 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:03.880 there was There were. 327 00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:08.200 Was JFK. Yes, So which takes us. 328 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:10.880 Back to what you were saying earlier in the fact 329 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:14.920 of what's really there and what could be released from 330 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:18.359 there and the point being, for example, with the RFK 331 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:23.720 we saw I'm sorry with with JFK, we saw this 332 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:29.200 big announcement that the FBI had identified thousands of pages 333 00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:33.400 that were associated with JFK that they were going to 334 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.279 turn in after the President had issued as the directive. Great, 335 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:40.240 we just you know, we found these they related to JFK, 336 00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:41.279 We're going to turn them in. 337 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:43.079 Well, what those. 338 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:47.759 Really were, literally were bulk files, bulk name files under 339 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:51.880 the subject of the JFK investigation, which is as you 340 00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:56.599 described them, or material that had been copied to the 341 00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:01.319 FBI letters that had come to the FBI. They're not 342 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:08.200 assassination materials, their assassination related materials, but there's nothing that 343 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:11.480 unique as far as the FBI is concerned. They're just 344 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:14.440 setting there and that's the reason they were just sitting there. 345 00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:14.839 You know. 346 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:20.599 Periodically, the record's retention process, you know, cleans out records 347 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:23.440 and the agencies box them all up and they send 348 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:27.720 an an aura and generally those things unless they're you know, 349 00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:32.480 they die in a declassification room, you know, with thousands 350 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:36.119 of pages just stuffed in boxes, you know, or these 351 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:37.720 ever going to make it into the files. 352 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:40.920 Maybe probably not. So that's that's what they did. 353 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:45.960 Now to some extent, what we're seeing with RFK is 354 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:51.039 the same sort of thing. There was no federal investigation 355 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:54.000 of the assassination of Senator Kennedy. 356 00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:59.359 Well, no publicly wait, no publicly known federal investigation. There 357 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:04.079 could have in investigations, but there's no publicly like, hey, 358 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:07.240 look we're definitely looking into this and so on, And 359 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:09.799 there was no official public investigation. 360 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:13.000 Right, there was no order from the president or the 361 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:18.559 Justice Department, right, So there is no official sanctioned investigation. 362 00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:21.279 There is a directive for RFK. 363 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:24.920 You know, to the FBI if if LAPD ask you 364 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:28.759 for help, sure help them, you know, if they if 365 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:32.559 they want you to do a file check on someone, 366 00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:35.200 look in your files and tell them what you have 367 00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:38.839 if they you know. So there's they're certainly enabled to assist, 368 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:42.000 but they're not enabled to go out and take over 369 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:47.279 the investigation. Essentially is as they did with JFK, or 370 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:50.799 as they did with MLK. MLK was a little bit 371 00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:54.480 in between, because Memphis police still had that, but they're 372 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:58.519 in a much lower profile role. So what they might 373 00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:01.559 have done on their own is another question, which I 374 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:06.319 would talk about separately, but officially, what you've got setting 375 00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:10.759 there in the FBI is a collection of letters to 376 00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:14.960 the FBI about the assassination of Senator Kennedy, and you 377 00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:17.440 can see those. You can go through what's been released 378 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:19.359 now and say, you know, there are a lot of 379 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:23.000 letters from people talking about how it's a shame Sir 380 00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:26.279 Hann was a communist, Sir Han was a terrorist. 381 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:28.160 You know, there's Sir. 382 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:31.079 Hann was carrying out just part of the attacks on Israel. 383 00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:35.319 A lot of private communications going to the FBI, some 384 00:22:35.559 --> 00:22:38.559 request for help from l A p D A lot 385 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:42.680 copied to them from other agency, copied from l A 386 00:22:42.759 --> 00:22:47.720 p D, copied from newspaper sources, copied from military intelligence. 387 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:51.519 All goes into this into this name file, and it's 388 00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:55.279 all sets there and after some period of time, you know, 389 00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:59.480 it's trotted over and sets it NARA and those appear 390 00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:02.359 to see. You know, that's what we're seeing show up. 391 00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:06.039 Now that the thing about that is, you know, there 392 00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:08.640 are two things that we would like to see. We 393 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:12.720 would like to see something unique and you know that 394 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:17.079 we haven't seen before related to the actual investigation of 395 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:19.920 the crime. You know that that would be great not 396 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:23.039 seeing that, Which makes sense in a way because that 397 00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:27.160 was lap D and sus uh was not FBI. The 398 00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:30.200 FBI did did do some interviews. 399 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:32.480 Uh, they got to lead. 400 00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:34.839 They did do some interviews in a couple of cases 401 00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:37.720