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Speaker 6: Hello, and welcome to this rebroadcast episode of Superhero Ethics Friends.
Speaker 6: A couple of weeks before we went on hiatus, we
Speaker 6: were talking a lot about Batman and the Cape Crusader Show,
Speaker 6: and we wanted to give you a throwback that because
Speaker 6: it wasn't that long ago that Kevin Conroy, the voice
Speaker 6: of Batman and Bruce Wayne in Batman the Animated series.
Speaker 6: Many things that came off after that that Kevin Conroy
Speaker 6: passed away, and it gave myself and Paul Hoppey and
Speaker 6: comic book fan extraordinary Jessica Plumber a wonderful time to
Speaker 6: really talk about Kevin Conroy, his understanding of Batman and
Speaker 6: what that lent to really everything we know about Batman
Speaker 6: from then on to today. The Cape Crusader Show, as
Speaker 6: we talked about, really felt like it was set in
Speaker 6: a similar world to Batman the Animated series. So this
Speaker 6: is a good time to go back and think about
Speaker 6: how is Kevin Conroy so important and how does that
Speaker 6: legacy live on. Please enjoy this episode and if you
Speaker 6: like it, of course, please think about becoming a member.
Speaker 6: Only five dollars a month fifty five dollars a year.
Speaker 6: You get access to free content, bonus content at the
Speaker 6: end of episodes, and you get to help us keep
Speaker 6: the lights on. And whether or not you do that,
Speaker 6: please think about sending us some feedba TikTok Twitter, You
Speaker 6: can search for The Ethical Panda or just go on
Speaker 6: our website, Theethnicalpanda dot com, or just look in the
Speaker 6: show notes. Send us your thoughts on this episode or
Speaker 6: any episode we've shared with you recently. We'd love to
Speaker 6: hear thoughts. We'd love to share them and discuss them
Speaker 6: on an upcoming episode. Thank you so so much, we
Speaker 6: have spoken. Hello, and welcome to this bonus episode of
Speaker 6: Superhero Ethics. If you've listened to many of our episodes,
Speaker 6: especially any that we talked about Batman, you know that
Speaker 6: Kevin Conroy was someone we truly cherished as one of,
Speaker 6: if not our favorite portrayal of Batman. Well, unfortunately, recently
Speaker 6: he passed away, and Paul and I decided to do
Speaker 6: a small mini episode just to kind of honor and
Speaker 6: tribute and talk about why his contributions to Batman have
Speaker 6: been so important.
Speaker 3: And we couldn't really do.
Speaker 6: That without bringing in DC super fan Jess Plumber because
Speaker 6: I found this is the one time I can get
Speaker 6: her to say good things about a Batman portrayal. So,
Speaker 6: you know, even though Superman's great too, today we're gonna
Speaker 6: be talking about Batman and Kevin Conroy and his little
Speaker 6: mini episode. So thank you so much, and we'll be
Speaker 6: right back after this commercial that I would like to
Speaker 6: be from Wayne Enterprises, but we'll see welcome back. This
Speaker 6: is Matthew, your host. I am joined as almost always
Speaker 6: by definitely not a host, mister Paul Hobby.
Speaker 7: Paul, how are you doing today?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean overall doing pretty good, you know, bummed
Speaker 5: on the current topic of course.
Speaker 7: For sure, for sure.
Speaker 6: And Jess, as I said, you're recurring, I'm so glad
Speaker 6: to be with us because I know this was a
Speaker 6: topic that was really important to you.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I would echo Paul that I am. I am
Speaker 9: real bummed. It's very sad. I wish we didn't have
Speaker 9: to record it, but I'm glad I'm recording it with
Speaker 9: you too.
Speaker 6: For sure did And so Jess, let's start with you,
Speaker 6: because I know we've joked about how Batman isn't your favorite,
Speaker 6: you're more Superman Woman, but that you really do love
Speaker 6: all the DC stuff, and you know, I know you
Speaker 6: mentioned that you were really affected by Kevin Conroy's passing.
Speaker 6: So talk a little bit about what this, what his
Speaker 6: portrayal of Batman meant to you.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 9: You know, it's funny because I was surprised by how
Speaker 9: much it affected me. Like you said, I am definitely
Speaker 9: more of a Superman fan in general, and honestly, like
Speaker 9: even though the Batman the animated series, which was Kevin
Speaker 9: Conroy's first time in the role, premiered in nineteen ninety
Speaker 9: two when I was mah eight, so he's basically been
Speaker 9: Batman my whole life, Like he's been Batman since I
Speaker 9: knew what Batman was. But I didn't actually like superheroes
Speaker 9: as a kid, and I was like, if I turned
Speaker 9: on the TV and it was a superhero cartoon, I'd
Speaker 9: be offended because to me, cartoons were about like, you know,
Speaker 9: somebody hitting somebody else in the face with a pie,
Speaker 9: which you know it wasn't really happening in bat I
Speaker 9: guess the Joker would do it, but it'd be a
Speaker 9: murder pie, and it doesn't have the same spirit, not
Speaker 9: quite like a Sylvester and Weaver, no exactly. And so
Speaker 9: I'd always be like, uh, you change the channel and
Speaker 9: go find ductails or something. But when I got into
Speaker 9: comics and superheroes in high school and college, it was
Speaker 9: really like Batman the animated series was, as it is
Speaker 9: for so many people, jumping off point for me, even
Speaker 9: though of course it had been off the air for
Speaker 9: a very long time. Justice League was on the air,
Speaker 9: and that you know again had Kevin Conray as Batman
Speaker 9: and I have since gone back and watched it. I
Speaker 9: was literally watching it like Thursday night and then check
Speaker 9: Twitter on Friday morning and he had passed. Like even
Speaker 9: though I didn't grow up with it, I still feel
Speaker 9: like I grew up with it because it was always
Speaker 9: there and he was always there. Yeah. No, I Like
Speaker 9: I said, I was surprised by how much it affected me.
Speaker 9: But I cried a lot. May cry in this episode,
Speaker 9: no promises.
Speaker 6: You know it's an emotional topic, Paul, What about for you?
Speaker 6: Because I know I actually remember the animated series being
Speaker 6: a big part of like my high school years. I
Speaker 6: didn't watch it much myself at that point, but a
Speaker 6: lot of my friends did. In our Mutual Friends circle
Speaker 6: was talking about a lot. Were you watching it as
Speaker 6: it was coming out or do you don't get into
Speaker 6: it later?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I didn't really watch the animated series when it
Speaker 5: was out. I was aware of it, and you know,
Speaker 5: I might have seen a bit of it here and there.
Speaker 5: I actually grew up a Superman kid. You know, the
Speaker 5: Superman one and two came out either just before I
Speaker 5: was born the first one, or like when I was
Speaker 5: very little. You know, I mean, I had my hair
Speaker 5: done by one of the village people's boyfriends with like
Speaker 5: the little curl and everything when I was like four
Speaker 5: or five and like went to school and like a
Speaker 5: full like Superman outfit and was and actually got to
Speaker 5: meet got to meet Christopher Reeves when my dad worked
Speaker 5: on a movie with him, The Bostonians, and played volleyball
Speaker 5: with him actually, which was really funny, which also then
Speaker 5: you know, becomes a sad story with how his life ended,
Speaker 5: you know, too soon I could be talking about Christopher
Speaker 5: or my dad actually, but that sort of you know,
Speaker 5: then Batman, the the movies with you know, the Tim
Speaker 5: Burton movies with Michael Keaton came out and that was
Speaker 5: kind of when I became more of a Batman fan.
Speaker 5: But it wasn't really until like the two thousands that
Speaker 5: I started getting like really interested in it again. And
Speaker 5: it was it was the Justice League series actually, Like
Speaker 5: I was aware of the animated series, but I didn't
Speaker 5: watch it regularly or anything. And then I just I
Speaker 5: watched the entirety of the Justice League series, probably in
Speaker 5: like two or three weeks or something, you know, and
Speaker 5: it was just so good and to me, you know,
Speaker 5: it's a combination. It's a combination of the writing and
Speaker 5: the voice acting, right, which I think anytime you get
Speaker 5: really like just a peak level performance, it always has
Speaker 5: to be some combination of those, I think, And so
Speaker 5: I think, you know, Kevin Conroy was fortunate to get
Speaker 5: this role that was just really well written, and you know,
Speaker 5: he was given kind of to me, the Batman, who
Speaker 5: is like the best Batman that there can.
Speaker 3: Be, you know.
Speaker 5: But then for all of those, you know, my favorite
Speaker 5: moments of those to be on the level they were,
Speaker 5: it required his performance to like to make it real, right,
Speaker 5: and somehow, you know, his Batman felt more real to
Speaker 5: me than any of the you know, great live action
Speaker 5: takes that many of which I love, But there's just
Speaker 5: something that feels so real, like you know, human or
Speaker 5: just like a like a person, you know. And I
Speaker 5: think he captured the essence of both Bruce Wayne and
Speaker 5: Batman and really distinguished them with his voice, right, like
Speaker 5: you can tell whether this is Bruce Wayne or Batman
Speaker 5: speaking without looking at the screen, And I think that
Speaker 5: was something that he just did so well. And you know,
Speaker 5: he just delivered so many fantastic lines, particularly as Batman.
Speaker 5: I'd say more than as Bruce, but there's there's some
Speaker 5: more you know, Bruce Wayne lines that I think were
Speaker 5: just fantastic, and and the way he differentiated those two
Speaker 5: I think is like essential to the Batman.
Speaker 3: Character, and he does it in a way without going
Speaker 3: like full Christian Bale.
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, yeah, I think it's a really good point.
Speaker 6: I want to talk about my own story with Batman,
Speaker 6: but I'll just say I've said this before on the
Speaker 6: on the show, but I think it's worth peating. One
Speaker 6: of my favorite comments about Batman, and it comes from
Speaker 6: the folks at the DC on Screen podcast, and it's that,
Speaker 6: unlike most superheroes, with Batman, Batman is who he is
Speaker 6: and Bruce Wayne is the like persona that he puts on,
Speaker 6: but the core identity is Batman. And when they were
Speaker 6: talking about that, they said that that it was Batman
Speaker 6: the animated series, and Kevin Conroy, who really most you know,
Speaker 6: gave them that idea. And I definitely think that felt
Speaker 6: true because I think you're right. The Bruce, his Bruce
Speaker 6: always feels like not that it's a struggle, but that
Speaker 6: it like and it doesn't feel like it's bad acting
Speaker 6: at all. It feels like the actor is very suited
Speaker 6: to it, but he's portraying it as someone who is
Speaker 6: always a little bit uncomfortable in his own skin. And
Speaker 6: I just always feel like so much more assurance when
Speaker 6: he is in actually being what he's acting as Batman instead,
Speaker 6: because what he's portraying is that Bruce Wayne is someone
Speaker 6: who's always like a little bit putting on this show
Speaker 6: for everybody, even less so when he's talking with Alfred,
Speaker 6: but even there, like just he as Batman is who
Speaker 6: he's most comfortable.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think to some extent, there's almost three roles
Speaker 5: there where there's Bruce Wayne the performance in front of
Speaker 5: you know, a crowd, there's Batman, which you know, you
Speaker 5: could say is the true identity, and then there's Bruce
Speaker 5: Wayne in Wayne manor where only Alfred's around and he's
Speaker 5: you know, the question is like, do you have to
Speaker 5: always pretend you're Bruce when you're like not in the
Speaker 5: bat Cave and then when you're in the bat Cave
Speaker 5: you could be Batman? Or you know, do you have
Speaker 5: this kind of in between?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Well I was thinking I was thinking that as I
Speaker 6: was saying it, because like I would like to say
Speaker 6: that no he's just Batman with Alfred. But I think
Speaker 6: one of the really beautiful parts of that relationship is
Speaker 6: that Alfred knows that Batman is kind of his core,
Speaker 6: but kind of one of Alfred's main goals throughout the
Speaker 6: entire show is to allow him to become Bruce again.
Speaker 6: You're going to help him out of just being Batman.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's interesting because I you know, there have been
Speaker 9: a lot of clips that have been circulating since the
Speaker 9: news broke that he passed. And also think I've you know,
Speaker 9: continued to rewatch the show, and I absolutely agree with
Speaker 9: both of you that there's sort of those three like
Speaker 9: major categories. But the thing that I think was so
Speaker 9: one of the many things that was so powerful about
Speaker 9: his performance was how sort of he could flow in
Speaker 9: between them. And he was very mutable. It's sort of like,
Speaker 9: you know, to go back to Christopher Reeve watching him,
Speaker 9: you know, straighten up and turn into Superman and then
Speaker 9: hunch his shoulders and turn into Clark, and you see
Speaker 9: the way he does it. You can hear the way
Speaker 9: Kevin Conroy does it, and like, and there is I
Speaker 9: was watching the two part Rasal Ghoul episode and there's
Speaker 9: like a scene where he and Robin are like lost
Speaker 9: in the desert, and then they find their way to
Speaker 9: like Wayne enterprises buildings in whatever country that they're in,
Speaker 9: which is very funny, and they're like change into like
Speaker 9: their usual like he's got his turtleneck on and Dick
Speaker 9: has his little sweater vest and I'm like, do you
Speaker 9: just keep those in all their offices? But he's so
Speaker 9: they're like talking about like what they're going to do next,
Speaker 9: but it's Bruce like he's wearing civilian clothing, but he's
Speaker 9: using a voice that's much closer to Batman. But because
Speaker 9: he's talking to Dick, who's his partner and his kid,
Speaker 9: it's a very warm version of it. They're like joking
Speaker 9: around with each other. It's not the way that he
Speaker 9: talks to like Roz and Talia. And then one of
Speaker 9: the clips that was circulating on Twitter was from Mask
Speaker 9: of the Phantasm when Bruce breaks down in the rain
Speaker 9: at his parents grave, and the person who tweeted it
Speaker 9: said that Kevin Conry was particularly proud of that particular scene,
Speaker 9: which they might have been making up. I don't know,
Speaker 9: but he should have been proud because it's amazing. But
Speaker 9: he's fully in the Bruce voice, which really surprised me
Speaker 9: because I would because I default as well to thinking
Speaker 9: that the Batman voice is more true to who he is.
Speaker 9: But it makes sense that he wouldn't talk to his
Speaker 9: parents that way. It makes total sense that he's in
Speaker 9: that higher register that he's because he's so vulnerable in
Speaker 9: that moment, and it was.
Speaker 6: Such a.
Speaker 9: It's such a smart choice as an actor, and it's
Speaker 9: a choice that shows that he how well he knew
Speaker 9: and understood the character.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, And I think he's using kind of more of
Speaker 5: like a young Bruce voice there, right than like fake Bruce.
Speaker 9: Yes, yeah, it doesn't have that that little veneer of
Speaker 9: I'm a dufist, right, he usually does this person.
Speaker 8: Which I love.
Speaker 3: He's so good choice.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, Like I think definitely with some of those
Speaker 6: other portrayals like Christian Bale and things like that, who
Speaker 6: I utterly love. Yeah, it does feel like almost the
Speaker 6: portrayal of Bruce is almost to a comical extent, whereas
Speaker 6: with Kevin Well, I do feel like he and in
Speaker 6: Batman an of a series and the games and all that.
Speaker 6: While I do feel like Batman is the core identity,
Speaker 6: that tension is still always there you know, it doesn't
Speaker 6: feel like Alfred is you know, barking up the wrong
Speaker 6: tree or whatever metaphor you want to use for hopelessness.
Speaker 6: Like Alfred c is that there is the part of
Speaker 6: him that still is that side of him and all that,
Speaker 6: And just because we keep mentioning it, I didn't get
Speaker 6: a chance he before my own quick Christopher Reeves story.
Speaker 7: I'm about the same age as Paul.
Speaker 6: We didn't know each other back then, but I got
Speaker 6: to say, very proudly when I was in nursing school
Speaker 6: or kindergarten that my daddy sued Superman because Christopher Reeves
Speaker 6: owned the top floor of a co op building he
Speaker 6: wanted some construction in the ability that wanted to do.
Speaker 6: My father wound up representing the building and so bringing
Speaker 6: a lawsuit against Christopher Reeves.
Speaker 9: But yeah, it's just funny that Christopher reeb keeps coming
Speaker 9: up because they went to Juilliard together. Oh yeah, really, yeah,
Speaker 9: I was doing Yeah, yeah, I wrote an obituary for
Speaker 9: Kevin Conroy for book Riot, which it's going to go
Speaker 9: up at some point this week, I'm not sure what day.
Speaker 9: And so I did a little bit of research and
Speaker 9: I was reading like various like the Warner Brothers press
Speaker 9: release about his passing. But he studied at Juilliard with
Speaker 9: a whole host of you know, well known actors, including
Speaker 9: Christopher Reeve and Robin Williams, who was his roommate. And
Speaker 9: I just looked at those three names and I was like, like,
Speaker 9: it's the saddest list. Like they were all so talented,
Speaker 9: they're all so by all accounts, wonderful people, and they're
Speaker 9: all gone far too soon, and it's just heartbreaking.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and there's something really beautiful about that they all
Speaker 6: went to Juilliard. Because I'm going to talk about the
Speaker 6: way this is often conceived and acknowledging that there's some
Speaker 6: problematic classiest ideas in this.
Speaker 7: But like I think often we think of like, oh, you.
Speaker 6: Know, Juilliard or Yale or Dramtary, like that's where like
Speaker 6: the real actors go, you know, and that those people
Speaker 6: then go on to do Shakespeare and like the serious acting.
Speaker 6: And so knowing that these three went on to do
Speaker 6: you know, stand up comedy and then a lot of
Speaker 6: like comedic movies, although they often had a lot of
Speaker 6: very serious acting in them, and then the other two
Speaker 6: were primarily superhero actors for most of their life, one
Speaker 6: on voice, one on screen. It's kind of hilarious, but
Speaker 6: it's also really telling about how we can often really
Speaker 6: undervalue the talent that goes into these things. And that
Speaker 6: kind of leads me to telling my own story about
Speaker 6: my connection to this show, because it's one hundred percent
Speaker 6: because of Paul, because I did watch some episodes of
Speaker 6: it during high school, but mostly my memory of it
Speaker 6: is my friends would get stoned and want to watch
Speaker 6: animated shows, and Batman the animated series was the thing
Speaker 6: we watched while I was waiting for us to watch
Speaker 6: Dark Wing Duck, which you.
Speaker 9: Know, fanatically all of a piece.
Speaker 7: Yeah, very much.
Speaker 6: So, you know a lot of amag Duck having the
Speaker 6: far better theme song. I will say, but I never
Speaker 6: it was the thing that my friends liked to laugh
Speaker 6: at when they were.
Speaker 7: Stoned, and you know, it was like, it's fine, but
Speaker 7: I never really did it very seriously.
Speaker 6: And then when Paul and I were having all these
Speaker 6: great conversations that the conversations that would eventually lead to
Speaker 6: this podcast about Batman and stuff, Paul would keep mentioning,
Speaker 6: you know, Batman and made a series, and I was like, no,
Speaker 6: but it's he animated. I'm not gonna like it. I'm
Speaker 6: not gonna get into it. And when I finally sat
Speaker 6: down and really watched it, of course I discovered what
Speaker 6: so many others have that it's brilliant storytelling and has
Speaker 6: some of the joy of animated shows, to be sure,
Speaker 6: but is I mean, there's a lot of animation, especially
Speaker 6: now that isn't like just for kids, but especially back then.
Speaker 6: It was kind of unique, particular something that came out,
Speaker 6: you know, weekday afternoons, and I think it was Kevin
Speaker 6: so much of that, you know, for all the things
Speaker 6: we're talking about.
Speaker 8: And as I was trying.
Speaker 6: To kind of put my arms around, like what it
Speaker 6: was that made his influence so powerful, the thing that
Speaker 6: I kept coming back to. And I want to kind
Speaker 6: of let each of us talk about maybe one thing
Speaker 6: about Kevin Conry's performance when we spoke to them. It's
Speaker 6: for me, it's the way he interacts with the villains,
Speaker 6: especially the ones who has some sympathy for I think
Speaker 6: there's a lot of opinions of Badman and a lot
Speaker 6: of portrayals of him that is the you know, he
Speaker 6: he is vengeance, he is the Knight, He is the
Speaker 6: one who's going to punish the bad guys and make
Speaker 6: them fearful. And I think there's a lot of that
Speaker 6: even with Kevin Conroy. But some of my favorite episodes
Speaker 6: are the one where he's with Grundy or with Ace
Speaker 6: who that episode, or with Harley, you know, like Harley's
Speaker 6: Bad Day, where it's so clear that he both wants
Speaker 6: to stop the person doing the bad thing, but he
Speaker 6: recognizes like this person also had some major trauma just
Speaker 6: like he did. And maybe it's not just because Bruce
Speaker 6: is a better person that Bruce went one way and
Speaker 6: they went another, but that there's a lot of ways
Speaker 6: that Bruce could have maybe gone their way or they
Speaker 6: could have gone his way, and he has a sympathy
Speaker 6: for them. And I just I've never seen a portrayal
Speaker 6: of Batman that expresses that sympathy the way Kevin Conroy did.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm trying to think whether whether I've seen that
Speaker 5: that much in other Batman's or I've seen that so
Speaker 5: much in this Batman that it's just like how I
Speaker 5: view Batman, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 7: Like a lot of other Batman's.
Speaker 6: I think it's if it's a pretty woman who is
Speaker 6: supposed to be flirting with then he can have some
Speaker 6: sympathy for her. But like you know, Penguin and Catwoman
Speaker 6: both have kind of sympathetic backstories. We care a lot
Speaker 6: about Catwoman's not.
Speaker 8: Penguins in the Batman Forever movie, right, I think, I mean,
Speaker 8: he does have the benefit that it is a TV show,
Speaker 8: and so he has so much more room for those moments,
Speaker 8: like you don't have room for that in.
Speaker 9: Two hours or three hours lately, but you do have
Speaker 9: room for that in twenty for twenty two minute episodes.
Speaker 9: So it's partially the format. But I think, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 9: he so many people I've seen so many people over
Speaker 9: the years say Batman the animated series is Batman is
Speaker 9: the best Batman, and it's because he has that humanity,
Speaker 9: he has that warmth, And I mean we keep coming
Speaker 9: back to Christian Bale, who when he's Batman, it's just
Speaker 9: like incoherent growling, like he lose He's so good at
Speaker 9: Bruce Wayne, and you lose the humanity once he becomes Batman.
Speaker 9: And that's I mean, that's the case with a lot
Speaker 9: of these performers, but you never lose it with Kevin Conroy.
Speaker 9: You always have that the feeling that like, as Paul
Speaker 9: is saying, there's a person in there, and I I
Speaker 9: was actually rereading so Earlier this year, DC published a
Speaker 9: Pride anthology, which they've done for a few years now,
Speaker 9: and Kevin Conray actually wrote a story for it. And
Speaker 9: usually these are like superhero like they're superhero comics, it's
Speaker 9: about like queer characters in the comics. But this was
Speaker 9: an autobiographical story and it's amazing. It's the best story
Speaker 9: in the anthology, and DC has actually made it free
Speaker 9: to read, so I highly recommend going checking that out.
Speaker 9: But when he talks about using the Batman voice for
Speaker 9: the first time, he frames it very much as coming
Speaker 9: from a place of real human pain, and it's not
Speaker 9: there to frighten. It's a cry from the heart. And
Speaker 9: I think that again, that understanding that Batman is a
Speaker 9: manifestation of pain and not beating badass. I mean, he's
Speaker 9: very bad ass when he wants to be, but.
Speaker 3: But it's not like an affectation.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I like that a lot, because that is so
Speaker 7: in many ways.
Speaker 6: I think Michael Keaton was the Batman I saw as
Speaker 6: a kid and sort of shaped the aesthetic for me.
Speaker 6: But the Batman who really kind of shaped a lot
Speaker 6: of my initial ideas of Batman was Christian Bale, and
Speaker 6: that's where it's very much the sort of ideas that
Speaker 6: rash Oo very much the ideas that rolls our Ghoul
Speaker 6: teaches him of, like you know, use fear as a weapon,
Speaker 6: you know, and all that, and so I really like
Speaker 6: that different take on it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I will say, just in terms of the Christian
Speaker 5: Bale Batman, I think in Batman Begins he had a
Speaker 5: really nice difference between Bruce Wayne and Batman, and then
Speaker 5: in the Dark Night he just like doubled down on
Speaker 5: the like really super growley and like yeah, and also
Speaker 5: like the audio mixing just was just the bad thing
Speaker 5: about that movie.
Speaker 6: But like, yeah, I think it was not just growling.
Speaker 6: There was like a voice modulator.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 5: It was just way too much, and it I agree
Speaker 5: that it was. It was also motivated differently, right it
Speaker 5: it came from a different part of the character or
Speaker 5: it really showed a different take on the character. Even
Speaker 5: though you know it's like, well, yeah, here's the Batman voice,
Speaker 5: here's the Bruce Wayne voice.
Speaker 3: It's like okay, but you know, his Bruce.
Speaker 5: Wayne voice was almost always not almost always, but like
Speaker 5: had a very much of like a he was putting
Speaker 5: on an air and then his Batman voice was also
Speaker 5: like he was putting on a different air. So I
Speaker 5: think with the Christian Bale Batman, we very rarely got
Speaker 5: that really genuine person that we got from Kevin Conroy.
Speaker 7: I think it's very true.
Speaker 6: So what about for me to you, what's kind of
Speaker 6: like one thing about Kevin Connor's performance that you want
Speaker 6: to lift up or it could be like a specific
Speaker 6: aspect or like a particular episode or moment.
Speaker 3: I just have a bunch of lines, but sure.
Speaker 7: If you want to kind of rattle through some.
Speaker 5: Of them, is there going to be a separate segment
Speaker 5: where we're talking about favorite moments or.
Speaker 6: What I wanted you to go too long? So this
Speaker 6: is kind of like could be the wrap up segment.
Speaker 6: So yeah, if you want to.
Speaker 5: Go now, okay, So I'll just I'll just list a
Speaker 5: bunch of First of all, you mentioned the epilogue episode
Speaker 5: of The Justice League Unlimited. Whether it's season two or three,
Speaker 5: it's like they had a total of thirty nine episodes.
Speaker 5: This is the twenty sixth episode. It's the end of
Speaker 5: this whole Cadmus arc right, which was actually the reason
Speaker 5: that I wanted you to watch The Justice League because
Speaker 5: it like it gets into like you know, real world
Speaker 5: issues through the lens of like superheroes, right, and it
Speaker 5: was kind of like you know, Civil War before Civil War.
Speaker 3: And.
Speaker 5: It's you know, there's so many great lines throughout that
Speaker 5: whole arc where you know, early on there's like they're
Speaker 5: fighting all these nanobots and Batman's in the bat Wing
Speaker 5: and the bat Wing gets destroyed by the nanobots and
Speaker 5: he bails out, but he like doesn't have a parachute
Speaker 5: and he's like, uh, He's like if somebody could catch me,
Speaker 5: I can't fly at all, and just like that's one
Speaker 5: of my favorite lines.
Speaker 9: And he's slappable when he says it. He's like, well,
Speaker 9: I'm going to die, but I'm not going to get
Speaker 9: worked up over exactly.
Speaker 5: It's just like so matter of fact but also such
Speaker 5: a dramatic moment, right, And then I think Wonder Woman
Speaker 5: saves him, and there's another I mean, the whole Batman
Speaker 5: and wonder Woman dynamic throughout the Justice League series, I
Speaker 5: think it is just fantastic, and there's there's there's so
Speaker 5: many moments, there's one time when they're they're hiding but
Speaker 5: in person, so he's you know, Bruce Wayne and and
Speaker 5: she's Diana, I guess, and she kisses him to like,
Speaker 5: you know, sort of so somebody doesn't notice that they're
Speaker 5: who they are, and she's like, you know, I'm sorry,
Speaker 5: and he's like, don't be just like the way he
Speaker 5: says it just it's just it. It's so different from
Speaker 5: what we saw in the rest of the Justice League
Speaker 5: because we don't get much Bruce in the Justice League, right,
Speaker 5: and it's mostly Batman there.
Speaker 6: I don't get too much into like romantic pairings of
Speaker 6: different characters, but one of the ones I am fairly
Speaker 6: die hard for is Bruce Diana, and I am so
Speaker 6: much of it is because of his interact like that
Speaker 6: Kevin Conroy's interactions with her, and it's just like, Nope,
Speaker 6: any of the pairing for either of them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure, no, I feel you on that. And
Speaker 5: then entirely because of the Justice League series, Oh yeah,
Speaker 5: you know. And then later in the the Cadmus arc
Speaker 5: there's there's a spot where he's talking to Amanda Waller
Speaker 5: portrayed fantastically by c. H. Pounder, right, and and he's
Speaker 5: talking about lex you know, not just wanting to be president.
Speaker 5: And she's like, she's like, he wants to be president.
Speaker 5: That's enough power for anyone. And he's just like almost anyone.
Speaker 5: And it's like it's a great line and it's just
Speaker 5: heard perfectly, you know. And that whole episode there's like
Speaker 5: a thing where there they all the Justice League wants
Speaker 5: to like turn themselves into the government, and he's like,
Speaker 5: he's just like, you know, he's like, if if you're
Speaker 5: you know whatever, like clear your own name, don't sit
Speaker 5: on the sidelines and wait for someone else to do it.
Speaker 5: And they're like, well you have to, you know, we voted,
Speaker 5: you have to come along. He's like, I'm just a
Speaker 5: part timer. Remember Batman Out.
Speaker 6: Yeah, some of the best stuff of his we talked
Speaker 6: about with the Animate series, but in the Justice League,
Speaker 6: the way he's able to portray that, he's sort of
Speaker 6: like he's on the same side, but not the same
Speaker 6: team of the Justice League. Right wing to show up,
Speaker 6: but he's but he's never going to drink the kool aid.
Speaker 9: It's like you still like him. Like when he does
Speaker 9: that in the comics, I'm like, shut up then leave.
Speaker 9: I don't need you but like Kevin Conray's Batman, I'm like,
Speaker 9: all right, your knuckle ahead, Okay.
Speaker 5: It just works within the context of the show, you know,
Speaker 5: and because it's it's delivered, like I don't know, when
Speaker 5: you're reading a comic, you can kind of I mean,
Speaker 5: maybe you hear Kevin Conroy's voice when you read Batman,
Speaker 5: you know, I'm sure I do.
Speaker 3: But you know, it depends on how it's written.
Speaker 5: Sometimes it's written in a way where it's like this
Speaker 5: is no, this isn't you know, this isn't that Batman,
Speaker 5: And you know, but when when you when you see
Speaker 5: an animated show, you're you're hearing the voice right, and
Speaker 5: how the line is delivered can make such a difference
Speaker 5: in terms of how the line is felt. And I
Speaker 5: guess I'll just in terms of these lines, there's the
Speaker 5: entire epilogue episode of the Justice League Unlimited series, which
Speaker 5: is just like, I kind of don't want to go
Speaker 5: over the whole thing again. I basically narrated the episode
Speaker 5: to my mom the other night on the phone while
Speaker 5: like walking out in the cold and at night. It
Speaker 5: felt appropriate and like I was like tearing up. You know,
Speaker 5: it's like hard to actually explain like everything that happens
Speaker 5: in the episode, because and basically it's just, you know,
Speaker 5: this super villain is like doing super villain stuff, but
Speaker 5: she's about to have an aneurysm, and you know, Amanda
Speaker 5: Waller is like, well, I need you to go in
Speaker 5: and she'll trust you and then go ahead and kill her.
Speaker 5: And he's like, yeah, okay, I'll do that, but like
Speaker 5: he has no intention of doing that, you know, and
Speaker 5: he ends up just like asking her like.
Speaker 3: Could you know, could you could you stop it?
Speaker 5: Like with the you know, and like she does, you know,
Speaker 5: and I think because you know they have they have
Speaker 5: a real connection there in that moment, and you know,
Speaker 5: and she asks if he'll like stay with her, and
Speaker 5: he does, and he like holds her hand sitting on
Speaker 5: a swing.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 6: Important to this, I think is that, like, not that
Speaker 6: she's a super villain, she's also like what attention?
Speaker 3: She's a kid. Yeah. I don't know how old she
Speaker 3: actually is, but yeah she's a kid, you know.
Speaker 5: And and she's like, you know, basically she had this
Speaker 5: power and and cad miss or some governmental agency tried
Speaker 5: to turn her into a weapon and she's like they
Speaker 5: got their weapon, you.
Speaker 3: Know, I got robbed of my childhood.
Speaker 5: And then you know, Batman's like, I know what that's like,
Speaker 5: and she's like you do, don't you because you know
Speaker 5: she can read minds and like you know, and then
Speaker 5: they're just sitting there on swings, you know, so it's
Speaker 5: like she you know, they're kind of like two kids,
Speaker 5: you know, where it's like a part of Bruce is
Speaker 5: always that eight year old boy who just saw his
Speaker 5: parents murdered, and it's just a beautiful moment and terribly sad.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's funny, like every line that you've said. I mean,
Speaker 9: it's been years since I watched Justice League. That's why,
Speaker 9: like I started this. You know, dcau rewatch, but I'm
Speaker 9: still in season one of Batman because it was sixty
Speaker 9: five episodes long, so many episodes. But every single line
Speaker 9: you've said, I like, I can remember exactly the cadence
Speaker 9: or exactly how he said it. Like it's just yeah,
Speaker 9: like increaved on my brain.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's their iconic lines delivered iconically, like it just
Speaker 5: and it the way he does it, I think it
Speaker 5: feels effortless, you know, which isn't to say that it was.
Speaker 5: But sometimes someone's like giving some big impassion speech, and
Speaker 5: it feels like it feels like acting, you know. And
Speaker 5: granted we've already talked about sometimes the character is acting
Speaker 5: and he gets that across as well, but it just it.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think great acting is like when you
Speaker 5: it doesn't feel like acting. It just feels like the person.
Speaker 5: There's a person there and you you feel how they
Speaker 5: think and and how they feel, and it just it
Speaker 5: just all comes across.
Speaker 6: Yeah, when you thay quickly. It also makes me think
Speaker 6: of in terms of just the acting range. Is Batman
Speaker 6: beyond Oh Yes, where Kevin is now play Yeah, the
Speaker 6: same character, but age is thirty years older, which changes
Speaker 6: the voice. But also it's a it's a more cynical
Speaker 6: Batman in some ways. It's a Batman who has really
Speaker 6: kind of like lost some of his like under like
Speaker 6: he was really kind of suffering under the weight of
Speaker 6: everything he's been dealing with and is slowly brought back
Speaker 6: to an understanding by this younger version of himself. And
Speaker 6: it's just it's just to me, like, I was definitely
Speaker 6: very shocked when I realized it was the same voice
Speaker 6: actor is like.
Speaker 7: It's very tied to it, but it's just like just
Speaker 7: for that vocal talent, I wouldn't have thought it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, just whatever from you when kind of either a
Speaker 6: couple of favorite moments or lines or just one last
Speaker 6: aspect of the portrayal.
Speaker 9: I mean, we definitely hit a bunch of them that
Speaker 9: seen in Mask of the Phantasm that Paul had a
Speaker 9: few of them, that all all of epilogue, the bit
Speaker 9: in when he says to Harley, I had a bad
Speaker 9: day too, like so good, yeah, but my number one
Speaker 9: and I I remember the very first time, like I
Speaker 9: remember this episode aired is the JLU episode in the
Speaker 9: first season, this little Piggy Oh, and he sings because
Speaker 9: wonder Woman has been transformed into a pig by Circe
Speaker 9: and the only way that he can get her to
Speaker 9: like turn back into herself is by singing in Circe's nightclub.
Speaker 9: And like again, I remember when this episode aired, and
Speaker 9: I remember everybody losing their minds because we didn't know
Speaker 9: Kevin Conrad could sing, and he has a beautiful singing voice,
Speaker 9: and like, of course, like I'm the musical theater person,
Speaker 9: like of course, I lost my mind at this but
Speaker 9: it was just and like the minute he started singing,
Speaker 9: it was like, well, of course Batman would have a
Speaker 9: beautiful singing voice. He trained to be the best at everything,
Speaker 9: Like right the minute he did it, it made sense
Speaker 9: and it was logical, and it's just like literally, I
Speaker 9: will sometimes just pull up that clip and listen to it,
Speaker 9: even though it's like thirty seconds of a song and
Speaker 9: not the full thing, and I wish they'd recorded the
Speaker 9: full thing.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that scene, that whole episode is amazing.
Speaker 9: It's so good that the first season of that, well, no,
Speaker 9: the whole all of these shows are good. I think
Speaker 9: that's the moral of this.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and it.
Speaker 6: Also lets me tie to what I'm the host, they
Speaker 6: get to do this, I'll do the one last thing again.
Speaker 6: But like you were talking, Paul about him talking to
Speaker 6: Amanda Waller, and to me, that's one of the best
Speaker 6: things in the Justice League show shows is that I
Speaker 6: think a big part of why I am Amanda Waller
Speaker 6: is one of my favorite characters in animation and why
Speaker 6: to some extent I agree with her some of the
Speaker 6: time is because to some extent Batman agrees with her.
Speaker 6: And I've never seen that anywhere except in those animated
Speaker 6: shows where sometimes like the two of them are the
Speaker 6: ones who are like, yeah, this Superman guy who's always
Speaker 6: going to be good and right, we can have no
Speaker 6: limitations on because they'll always do the right thing.
Speaker 7: Do you buy it? No? You buy it?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 7: Like just the way that they connect sometimes.
Speaker 6: Even though often they're working across purposes, but they still
Speaker 6: like they're both having that suspicion.
Speaker 7: And I just.
Speaker 6: Kevin Conroy's acting in that is a lot of why.
Speaker 6: Like I think it's sort of like if Batman can
Speaker 6: see some voubt v lidity in her point of view,
Speaker 6: so can I.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean there's a whole thing where he's like,
Speaker 5: they're right to be afraid of us, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 5: And you know Superman's like trying to make a joke.
Speaker 3: He's like I took a bullet for you, Clark or whatever.
Speaker 5: Like he literally just like attached to the bat wing
Speaker 5: to like a nuclear weapon or something. I don't know,
Speaker 5: like somehow didn't quite totally get blown up.
Speaker 7: Makes sense? Yeah?
Speaker 6: All right, Well, thank you both so much. This hasn't
Speaker 6: always been it's a mini episode and we are gonna
Speaker 6: be under thirty five minutes or so, but I'm so
Speaker 6: glad both you could be a part of this Jess,
Speaker 6: you've mentioned a couple of things you're doing. We're gonna
Speaker 6: have links in the show, notes to the obituary that
Speaker 6: you're writing, as well as too or that you've already written.
Speaker 6: We're gonna have links in the show, not the obituary
Speaker 6: Kevin that you wrote, as well as I'm going to
Speaker 6: have a link to that comic that you mentioned that
Speaker 6: Kevin wrote. But is there anywhere else else? Is there
Speaker 6: anything else people should know about what you're doing these days?
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's pretty much all over on book Riot. Technically
Speaker 9: I'm at Jess Plumber on Twitter, but who knows if
Speaker 9: Twitter will still be standing by the time this airs,
Speaker 9: So yeah, it'd stick with book ryat great.
Speaker 6: I'll also say that Jess and I will be having
Speaker 6: another conversation in about ten minutes, so you'll probably hear
Speaker 6: it before you hear this on another part of the
Speaker 6: DC universe that is just so awash with deep ethical
Speaker 6: questions and brilliant portrayals. And I wish you could see
Speaker 6: the sarcasm on my face because I'm talking about Black Adam.
Speaker 6: So if you want to hear us talk about Black Adam,
Speaker 6: probably be a little lest tears, but have still some.
Speaker 7: Great things to say. Check that out. Also on this podcast,
Speaker 7: Paul the.
Speaker 6: Zen mad Man is still hibernating in the zen Cave
Speaker 6: doing zen poker things, and we'll be emerging like a
Speaker 6: butterfly in January.
Speaker 3: With new con something like that.
Speaker 7: Yes, okay, awesome.
Speaker 5: I am literally sitting in a dark room with all
Speaker 5: the lights out and podcastang which I don't know. It
Speaker 5: feels like with very Batman and also like very voice actor,
Speaker 5: you know. So I feel a deep connection right now too.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 8: I like it all right.
Speaker 6: Well, thank you both so much to all of our audience.
Speaker 6: Would love to hear from you. It's always true, but
Speaker 6: especially this What are some of your favorite Kevin Conroy
Speaker 6: moments other episodes that you've been like inspired to go
Speaker 6: back and watch, are you so? I mean, this is
Speaker 6: a show we're talking about that was mostly big in
Speaker 6: the nineties and early two thousands. I'm guessing there's some
Speaker 6: of you who maybe haven't seen it or haven't seen
Speaker 6: many of his portrayals. What's your take on this, How
Speaker 6: does his portrayal compare to others or what have you
Speaker 6: heard about it before? Anything you want to tell us,
Speaker 6: go to the Ethical panda dot com. Send us your thoughts,
Speaker 6: send us your ideas. You can find us on Facebook, email, Twitter,
Speaker 6: all different places that people are well Twitter, maybe in
Speaker 6: a little while, who knows, but certain they can email us,
Speaker 6: find us on Facebook, anything you want, have myself, Paul Jessica,
Speaker 6: thank you so much, and an honor of Kevin Conryan.
Speaker 7: Thank you to all of you for listening in.
Speaker 6: And I just you know, thank you to Kevin for
Speaker 6: all the amazing content he gave us.
Speaker 7: Thank you all and have a good night.
Speaker 5: And second, the voice kept calling me Bruce. In my mind,
Speaker 5: that's not what I call myself.