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Speaker 1: Now let's dive into today's episode. I like to welcome
Speaker 1: to the show, Gloria Masters. Hi you doing, Gloria, I'm great,
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you so much for being on the show.
Speaker 1: You know, when you came across my desk, your story
Speaker 1: really touched me, and in the work that you're doing
Speaker 1: in the world to try to help help children who
Speaker 1: are sex trafficked and abused and kidnapped and all of
Speaker 1: these things, I felt that it was an important message
Speaker 1: to put out there, and I think that this episode's
Speaker 1: and to hopefully help heal a lot of people out there,
Speaker 1: and that's my intention. I think that's your intention as
Speaker 1: well with this conversation. So I appreciate you being so
Speaker 1: brave to come out and speak about this publicly and
Speaker 1: do the work that you're doing in the world. So
Speaker 1: first and foremost, I applaud you for what you're doing.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: I felt that.
Speaker 1: I do too, So let's dive in. You know, tell
Speaker 1: me your story of what happened to you when you
Speaker 1: were younger, and then we can go from there.
Speaker 2: So thanks Alex for agreeing to have me on the show.
Speaker 2: Very much appreciated by me. So Luka was born and
Speaker 2: bred into a family where I believe intergenerational child sex
Speaker 2: trafficking was the norm. So I'm from New Zealand, from
Speaker 2: West Auckland, and I was first of all abused by
Speaker 2: my father from from infancy really but sexually abuse more
Speaker 2: and more from the age of four and a half
Speaker 2: was when it all really kicked off. I had a mother,
Speaker 2: of course, but she was very unavailable, so very narcissistic,
Speaker 2: very disinterested, very much get out of my way type attitude,
Speaker 2: so I had no safe adults around me. Now, A
Speaker 2: rather sick twist to the tale was that from about
Speaker 2: the age of five, my grandmother, my father's mother, was
Speaker 2: tasked worth training me to be the best sex slave possible.
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, where I had thought there was love and
Speaker 2: possibility of acceptance and safety, it turned out that was
Speaker 2: the very worst place I could be. So from her
Speaker 2: home and from various places throughout Auckland, which is my
Speaker 2: hometown and our own home. When my mother was absent,
Speaker 2: I began to be sex trafficked from six years of age.
Speaker 2: Although I'd been leased to my father's friends and extended
Speaker 2: family well before that, this was when serious money started
Speaker 2: to be made. So the impact on me was not
Speaker 2: to feel at all like a person or that I
Speaker 2: had anything meaningful to offer. And what began in me
Speaker 2: as a very excited, inquisitive, curious, fun loving child quickly changed.
Speaker 2: And you know, the adults around me to to use
Speaker 2: and abuse and exploit as much as they could and
Speaker 2: made a lot of money out of me. Actually, so yes,
Speaker 2: that was the start of my life.
Speaker 1: How did you How long did this go on for?
Speaker 2: I managed to escape all of this the day of
Speaker 2: ten sixteen, which is why sixteen is my very favorite
Speaker 2: number of all. That was the day I never had
Speaker 2: to see my father again. My parents had separated at eleven,
Speaker 2: and I got left in the house with him as
Speaker 2: the only girl. And that's the Meanwhile, all my story,
Speaker 2: if you like, is focused on those eighteen months of hell.
Speaker 2: I didn't think i'd make it through. So Alex, when
Speaker 2: I say I'm grateful to be here, I mean that
Speaker 2: in more ways than one.
Speaker 1: Was there any hope when you were in this any
Speaker 1: adult any glimmer of kindness or mercy during those years.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I can safely say there were no safe
Speaker 2: air lots in my life apart from at school. But
Speaker 2: you see, it was at school I could steal food,
Speaker 2: steal other kids' food, and eat because they didn't want
Speaker 2: me to eat much because the predators would pay more
Speaker 2: for a younger looking child. So I was very skeletal
Speaker 2: and undernourished. But the worst thing that happened at school
Speaker 2: was that teachers had no idea and so I was
Speaker 2: basically either ignored or being reprimanded for my out of
Speaker 2: control behavior. And Alex, this is a really pertinent point.
Speaker 2: Children will always show what's going on in the world
Speaker 2: when they're safe too, and so at school was my
Speaker 2: only safe place. So I was out of control. At home,
Speaker 2: I was too scared to be anything but compliant.
Speaker 1: So can you tell us the story of how you
Speaker 1: got out of this at sixteen?
Speaker 2: When my parents separated at eleven, the agreement was that
Speaker 2: I could see my mother every second weekend, and then
Speaker 2: part of their legal agreement, or so I'm told, was
Speaker 2: that the day of tun sixteen, I could decide for
Speaker 2: myself who I wanted to live with and whether I
Speaker 2: wanted to see my father, so I chose not. Now
Speaker 2: that may sound like an easy thing to have conveyed
Speaker 2: to him, nothing could be further from ruth. I was
Speaker 2: terrified and he was scary. And my mother, of course,
Speaker 2: was never going to be reliable and never going to
Speaker 2: have my back. She hadn't been able to from infancy,
Speaker 2: so that was a door I couldn't keep knocking at.
Speaker 2: It was never going to open. So suffice it to
Speaker 2: say that not only or also included in the child
Speaker 2: sex trafficking was I had many forced abortions on me
Speaker 2: at the hands of my grandmother because no one wanted
Speaker 2: a pregnant child. So between the ages of eleven and
Speaker 2: a half and sixteen, there were many forced abortions, to
Speaker 2: the point where I thought I was going to die,
Speaker 2: and they had to call an adopt who was one
Speaker 2: of the elite groups i'd been trafficked to, and I
Speaker 2: remember one night hearing him say to my grandmother, if
Speaker 2: she doesn't get if we don't get this beleeeding to stop,
Speaker 2: she's not going to make it through the night. So
Speaker 2: that's how I was treated. I was trafficed too many groups.
Speaker 2: I was leased out of a nightclub in our red
Speaker 2: light district from the age of nine. And that was
Speaker 2: in an upstairs room in our red light district. And
Speaker 2: it was there I would be chained to a bed
Speaker 2: because people like the fat many and women alex that
Speaker 2: they could abuse me however they wished to. They had
Speaker 2: to pay more.
Speaker 1: Of course, we'll be right back after a word from
Speaker 1: our sponsor. And now back to the show.
Speaker 2: Alongside that was I had to perform in child sexual
Speaker 2: abuse materials as in videos, and you know, perform on
Speaker 2: a men and women and children at times because those
Speaker 2: images and those videos the old fashioned, the old.
Speaker 1: What do we call that eight milimeter eight milimeter video
Speaker 1: a video?
Speaker 2: Yeah, back in those days they didn't have video.
Speaker 1: Eight melimeter yeah, super eight.
Speaker 2: Okay, And I always remember the sound of the clicking,
Speaker 2: the clicking is there's the tape tend But I would
Speaker 2: I would approach not another adult around me, but at
Speaker 2: the softest, safest looking pedophile, believe it or not, because
Speaker 2: I thought if I was to approach them and behave
Speaker 2: in the sexualized way I'd been trained to, they may
Speaker 2: be gently with me and not hurt me as much.
Speaker 2: So there was there's so many layers and levels. I'm
Speaker 2: so greatful to be here. I'm very thankful, Gloria.
Speaker 1: I have to ask you. I mean, this sounds so
Speaker 1: horrific and in my heart and my soul cry out
Speaker 1: to you, really, and I just want to hug you,
Speaker 1: you know, hug that little girl that was going through
Speaker 1: all of this. How did you mentally deal with this?
Speaker 1: Did you have any spiritual did you even did you
Speaker 1: think about that? Did you think about a God? Did
Speaker 1: you were you angry at this God? Or was there
Speaker 1: someone there helping you in the spiritual sense that you
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I'm just asking, is there
Speaker 1: anything like that? How did you go through this mentally?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So, when I realized it was me or me
Speaker 2: I could rely on, I started to go with them.
Speaker 2: I hid nothing outside of me and there was no
Speaker 2: safe heal, there was no safe person. I couldn't trust anybody.
Speaker 2: I would put myself in the boot of my father's
Speaker 2: predator friends, hoping that when they discovered me in there
Speaker 2: back at their homes, they would keep me and keep
Speaker 2: me safe. That's how desperate I was, But they always
Speaker 2: return me to him. But in answer to your question,
Speaker 2: I learned to go within, and I learned to look
Speaker 2: up at the sky. So often I would see the
Speaker 2: sky at night and see the man in the moon smiling,
Speaker 2: and I thought, oh, he's smiling at me. Someone loves me.
Speaker 2: Or during the day I'd make shapes with clouds as
Speaker 2: children do, and just hold on to anything I could
Speaker 2: through light. Actually, and I also became a big fan
Speaker 2: of angels, so they were around me from a very
Speaker 2: young age, the little tiny ones with wings when I
Speaker 2: was little, but they grew as I grew it, now
Speaker 2: the huge so we have. I call Raphael and Gabriel
Speaker 2: and my protectors, my lovely angels. But I hate to
Speaker 2: I hate to have. I hate to have something. And
Speaker 2: I think, out of that grew I can do this.
Speaker 2: I can do this. So some days I couldn't feel
Speaker 2: that I'd get through it. Some hours I didn't think
Speaker 2: I'd make it. And sometimes it was just minute by
Speaker 2: minute I think, I just if I can just keep moving,
Speaker 2: if I can just keep breathing.
Speaker 1: So when you when you finally got away from that
Speaker 1: situation and became free, essentially, was there any consequences for
Speaker 1: your father, for your family, for any.
Speaker 2: Of this, Yes, good questions. So it took me until
Speaker 2: I was a parent myself and my daughter was the same.
Speaker 2: Agi was when the abuse began at its worst that
Speaker 2: I started having the most horrendous flashbacks and triggers. Prior
Speaker 2: to that, I had told people about what had gone
Speaker 2: on as a teenager and then as a young adult,
Speaker 2: but I'd blocked all that, and so when the mind
Speaker 2: is ready, the recall appears, and so they came at me,
Speaker 2: and you can imagine it was at the speed of light.
Speaker 2: If I hadn't been a paranelyx, I wouldn't be here today.
Speaker 2: It was that horrendous. And that was the memories. That
Speaker 2: was not the events in terms of me experiencing them.
Speaker 2: That was just the recall, So you can imagine the
Speaker 2: horror and so yes, for me, dealing with all of
Speaker 2: that took a toll. But it was during the first
Speaker 2: year or two of recovery of memory full memory, that
Speaker 2: I went to a lawyer, who then went to the police,
Speaker 2: who then began an investigation, and they had seven full
Speaker 2: time detectives on the case. They went very hard, and
Speaker 2: when they came and saw me, they said, unfortunately, it's
Speaker 2: not that we don't believe you are You're credible. We
Speaker 2: could put you on the stand tomorrow. It's more that
Speaker 2: the burden of proof can't be met, and you're only
Speaker 2: one person out of many who say that never happened.
Speaker 2: So my whole family turned against me. I lost everybody
Speaker 2: because I was evil, deluded, a liar, the black sheep,
Speaker 2: a trouble maker. And yes, my mother worked very hard
Speaker 2: to make sure the rest of the family saw me
Speaker 2: that way.
Speaker 1: Just to go back for a second, when you said
Speaker 1: that when you when you had a child, these memories
Speaker 1: came flooding back, it was because you completely just block
Speaker 1: You put them in a box, locked the box through
Speaker 1: the wave key, and just shoved it somewhere into your
Speaker 1: subconscious correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you see what.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's a really important point actually because you'll have
Speaker 2: amazing survivors watching this, and this is good for people
Speaker 2: to be aware of. Okay, Alex, when all this horror
Speaker 2: occurs as children and teenagers, we can't stay in our body,
Speaker 2: but the body can't leave, so the mind does. And
Speaker 2: that's what dissociation is. Now for me, the horror, you
Speaker 2: could make a documentary or a movie about it and
Speaker 2: people would think it was fantastical as opposed to real
Speaker 2: or truth. So even though as a thirteen year old
Speaker 2: I told a friend of mine what was happening, and
Speaker 2: as a twenty year old I told someone I was
Speaker 2: training with to be a teacher what happened, I blocked
Speaker 2: it as well. So I blocked everything to do with
Speaker 2: it until my mind was really I was ready to
Speaker 2: deal and that as when I was in my early thaties.
Speaker 1: So so you're you're you just could not process it.
Speaker 1: You didn't have the the equipment, the skill set to
Speaker 1: process it. So you your brain. I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: dig in here a little bit because it's so important
Speaker 1: for people to understand this that you know, we all
Speaker 1: have traumas in our lives, and we all block things
Speaker 1: that were traumatic in our lives. Obviously, what you're, what
Speaker 1: you dealt with was an extreme, an extreme, and a
Speaker 1: horrific extreme at that. But the concept that the the
Speaker 1: idea is still the same, big trauma, small trauma. We
Speaker 1: hide that. The brain is designed to protect us generally,
Speaker 1: so it's there to block block. We don't want to
Speaker 1: deal with that because that's going to bring us pain.
Speaker 1: Let's not deal with that. But the longer you went,
Speaker 1: when it finally the damn broke if you will. It
Speaker 1: was such a rush that you I'm assuming it took
Speaker 1: a lot for you to even handle that because you
Speaker 1: were not forced to. You were it was right in
Speaker 1: front of you, and your your brain was like, no,
Speaker 1: I can't hold this back anymore, we need to deal
Speaker 1: with this. Is that kind of how it happened.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent? And it's like, look, if you are
Speaker 2: in a car accident and it's a fairly this one,
Speaker 2: it's the best analogy I can think of. You may
Speaker 2: not recall what happened to you for several days because
Speaker 2: your minds and to protect it, protects us from the
Speaker 2: trauma of knowledge, of knowing, of being in the moment.
Speaker 2: And I said, the very best definition of dissociation is
Speaker 2: the mind leaves because the body can't.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so I could deal with it, apparently in
Speaker 2: my thirties. So thanks it came.
Speaker 1: You know, once that flood of memories came back, I'm
Speaker 1: assuming it was kind of like a oh God, I
Speaker 1: don't know if this is a good term, but the
Speaker 1: dark night of the soul. You had to do the
Speaker 1: shadow work, you had to go in and deal with
Speaker 1: these these these monsters inside of your psyche and you
Speaker 1: had to bring them out into the light, which is
Speaker 1: not fun at all. We'll be right back after a
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor and now back to the show.
Speaker 1: And only by doing that, though, is how you essentially
Speaker 1: free yourself to be able to have a conversation like
Speaker 1: this very freely. And you have been having them for
Speaker 1: many years now, is that correct?
Speaker 2: About three a three and a half. I first started
Speaker 2: talking back in twenty twenty one when my me and
Speaker 2: Mike came out. But yeah, and look, I feel healed
Speaker 2: enough and that I need to give back. I don't
Speaker 2: have a choice, Selex, It's just very big in me.
Speaker 2: You see. This purpose is to shine light help others
Speaker 2: by shining light on this darkness, so people can be helped.
Speaker 1: So one question I get asked all the time, and
Speaker 1: I'd like to ask this question to you to see
Speaker 1: what you have to say, because I think it's a
Speaker 1: very important question. So many of us I'm sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: tearing up a little bit, so there with me. So
Speaker 1: many of us go through go through life with things
Speaker 1: happening to them, bad things happening to them. And the
Speaker 1: question I get asked often is why does bad things happen?
Speaker 1: To good people. You've gone through things that are unimaginable
Speaker 1: to most people on this planet. Yeah, I have to
Speaker 1: ask did you ever ask that question? Has that question
Speaker 1: ever been proposed to you? And have you had have
Speaker 1: you been able to answer it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And look, thank you and thanks for your compassion.
Speaker 2: I see that I've wondered that myself, of our set
Speaker 2: of myself and you know, the unhealed parts of me
Speaker 2: over the initial decade where I was just angry and
Speaker 2: furious and blaming. Now I see it slightly differently and
Speaker 2: just breathe through it. I think what happens to us
Speaker 2: in life is good things happen that that makes us happy,
Speaker 2: and we can grow neural pathways to accept more happiness.
Speaker 2: But when bad things happen, the gift is in what
Speaker 2: do we do with that? And what do we learn
Speaker 2: from that? And how can we use that learned to
Speaker 2: recognize Alex without taking away from anything I suffered? Is there.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to fulfill my purpose on this
Speaker 2: planet had I not gone through what I did.
Speaker 1: That is a very evolved soul speaking right now, because
Speaker 1: it takes a special kind of person to accept that,
Speaker 1: and I think all of us As we get older,
Speaker 1: we look back at the things that happened to us,
Speaker 1: the bad and the good, but specifically the bad and
Speaker 1: dramatic that without it we wouldn't be who we are.
Speaker 1: These are the these are the obstacles, These are the
Speaker 1: things that make us grow. I mean, but as I
Speaker 1: say that out loud, I'm like, my god, you went
Speaker 1: through such a horrific thing. I don't I mean, what's
Speaker 1: what was the point of it? And you're just saying it.
Speaker 1: The point of it is now you are helping you know,
Speaker 1: people around the world. You know, hopefully you know, hundreds
Speaker 1: of thousands of people will watch this and that will
Speaker 1: be a kind of ripple effect from this conversation for
Speaker 1: years to come that could help somebody going through this.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, and I'm not being insincere when I say it,
Speaker 2: but I've had to learn. I've had to learn the
Speaker 2: hard way, Alex. It didn't mean I didn't have or
Speaker 2: don't have self compassion and grace, but it just meant
Speaker 2: they were still winning, that evil was on top. If
Speaker 2: I couldn't find a way to work through, understand and
Speaker 2: try and overcome and then use it in the using
Speaker 2: of it, it's not even something I can control. It's
Speaker 2: the very deep spiritual part of me. Do this, do this,
Speaker 2: do this. I've got to do this work. It's my purpose.
Speaker 1: So when you say spiritual, what did you gravitate to?
Speaker 1: What teachings did you gravitate to? What? Or was it
Speaker 1: just something that you found within yourself?
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because I believe it's always there for us.
Speaker 2: And when people look outside of themselves, I always want
Speaker 2: to caution that you may find things outside of you,
Speaker 2: but there's always an a gender attached me included with
Speaker 2: anything that is shared and then assimilated for me. What
Speaker 2: I often think and wish for everybody is stop going
Speaker 2: outside and start to look within. That is where the
Speaker 2: answer is. That is where the truth lies. So I
Speaker 2: was grateful, you see, I was. I'm so glad I
Speaker 2: had angels around me and I knew the ethereal nature
Speaker 2: and the gentleness and the softness and the light is
Speaker 2: what lifted me. So on those days, it wasn't feet
Speaker 2: I had, it was wings that were carrying.
Speaker 1: And well, let me ask you. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: an obvious question because it's the first thing that pops
Speaker 1: into my head is how did you get over the anger?
Speaker 1: Did you have anger or did you just did you
Speaker 1: just skip right through the anger it goes straight to
Speaker 1: the pain, Like how you know, if you did have anger,
Speaker 1: how did you overcome it? And how did you overcome
Speaker 1: the idea of revenge? Of vengeance? You know? I mean
Speaker 1: that's that I have to believe that crossed your mind
Speaker 1: at one point or another.
Speaker 2: Of course, and look you out talking to a human
Speaker 2: being who also happens to be a newth angel. But
Speaker 2: there you go. Of course. Look it took me a
Speaker 2: long long time. I you know, it's I've been over
Speaker 2: thirty years since I started dealing with this, and the
Speaker 2: you know, the grief is a cycle, and I felt
Speaker 2: angry at times. But you see, whenever I tried to
Speaker 2: speak at as a child and teenage or even trying
Speaker 2: to deal with my family who wouldn't believe me, I
Speaker 2: ended up using my voice and trying to be as
Speaker 2: gentle as I could around it. But I was so
Speaker 2: often slammed down that if I started to get angry,
Speaker 2: the consequences were dangerous for me. So I learned from
Speaker 2: quite a young age to just be compliant, to just
Speaker 2: be the care to just be everything I could be,
Speaker 2: to keep everybody happy, and that was a very big conditioning.
Speaker 2: It's only been in the last five or so years
Speaker 2: with a therapist I see who said to me, much
Speaker 2: like you, where's the anger? What's happened with the anger?
Speaker 2: And I go, oh, no, I don't need to feel angry. Well,
Speaker 2: she did some work with me. Put it this way,
Speaker 2: you wouldn't have wanted to be a driver on the
Speaker 2: road for the next six months when I was in
Speaker 2: the car. But yes, it did surface, and I did
Speaker 2: try to manage it. But I also had to accept
Speaker 2: that actually anger is as healthy as an emotion as
Speaker 2: joy or happiness or peacefulness or you know, curiosity. And
Speaker 2: I had to learn to assimilate that because my father
Speaker 2: and brother, who was also a very big abuser of mine,
Speaker 2: very evil men, what was I was always terrified around them.
Speaker 2: They were much bigger than me, but I were very
Speaker 2: very very vitriolic and vitriolic and rage filled. So Alex
Speaker 2: anger had never felt safe.
Speaker 1: Now I'm there, You've embraced your You've erased Liam Neeson.
Speaker 3: Uh, that's that's watching you. Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's
Speaker 3: it's an important thing because so many people that go
Speaker 3: through trauma, there is a lot of anger that they
Speaker 3: don't deal with, and they just shove it down as
Speaker 3: part with the trauma.
Speaker 1: So when it all comes boiling up, it's a lot
Speaker 1: to deal with. What advice do you have for people
Speaker 1: who this might trigger something by watching this? This might
Speaker 1: crack that damn that they've held, you know, sealed for
Speaker 1: twenty years, thirty years, a lifetime even, and all of
Speaker 1: this is going to come out rushing out. It's not
Speaker 1: even a controlled release, and like when you're going to
Speaker 1: a therapist, it's a control it seems at least somewhat
Speaker 1: of a control release. What happened to you was not.
Speaker 1: It was just like and it all came in and
Speaker 1: you just had to to handle it on a psychological
Speaker 1: and emotional and spiritual standpoint. So what advice would you
Speaker 1: have for someone who is about to or is going
Speaker 1: through this recollection, this flood of anger and trauma that
Speaker 1: they're dealing with. We'll be right back after a word
Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it may surprise the audience, but accept it.
Speaker 2: It is there to teach you and to help you.
Speaker 2: The worst thing you can do is block it or
Speaker 2: stop it or try and remonstrate with it about go way,
Speaker 2: it's not good for me. That will then come back
Speaker 2: in ways you don't even want to imagine. It won't
Speaker 2: leave you alone until eventually you get hit over the
Speaker 2: head with a piece of full by two. Because it's
Speaker 2: coming for you and you're going to have to manage it.
Speaker 2: So best advice accept it, breathe through it, and then
Speaker 2: ask it what it has to teach you. If you
Speaker 2: allow it to embody you, you then the trajectory it
Speaker 2: takes tape us off and it's gone more quickly than
Speaker 2: if you try and block and stop. It's healthy. We
Speaker 2: need it. We just need to lose ways to manage
Speaker 2: it so we don't hurt ourselves or others.
Speaker 1: You have, you've we were talking before you came on
Speaker 1: about the hand signs for kids. Yeah, thing that you
Speaker 1: were talking about. Can we talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: what the what this is and how important it is
Speaker 1: to teach our children and anybody who's in trouble this sign.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. So this was first coined in Northern
Speaker 2: Canada and I think twenty twenty when the first lockdowns
Speaker 2: occurred across the globe, and it was for women who
Speaker 2: were being domestically abused and trapped in the house, and
Speaker 2: so you would see this sign last year through the foundation.
Speaker 2: I run the charitable foundation called Handing the Shameback, which
Speaker 2: is what adult survivors do, Alex when they find their
Speaker 2: voice finally about their abuses, handing the shame bag speaking.
Speaker 2: And I realize we have a lot of young people
Speaker 2: and children who are still being sexually abused in traffick.
Speaker 2: And what I know to be true is that children
Speaker 2: don't speak of this. Only five to ten percent will
Speaker 2: ever find the words. But what children can't do is
Speaker 2: hide behavior and hide what their body is doing. So
Speaker 2: I repurposed it, reached out across to northern Canada and said, look,
Speaker 2: I'd like to use it East, go ahead. So this
Speaker 2: is now four children under sixteen to use. And we
Speaker 2: know it's being used across the world. You cited an example.
Speaker 2: I've got people in New Zealand who have reached out
Speaker 2: and seen it being used in schools. We've got people
Speaker 2: all across the globe who reach out and say I
Speaker 2: saw it, I saw it, and they're able to do
Speaker 2: something with it. Because my question becomes, who's going to
Speaker 2: save the kids, Alex, If not you then who yeah.
Speaker 1: I was. I was telling you before we came on
Speaker 1: that I was aware of this sign. My children know
Speaker 1: the sign as well. We saw it on a news
Speaker 1: on the news that there was a child I can
Speaker 1: think we've been kidnapped, and he was. She was on
Speaker 1: the on the highway and this other this other car
Speaker 1: drove up next to her and they pulled out the
Speaker 1: phone and she just went like this and she kept
Speaker 1: going like this to them and they didn't what is that?
Speaker 1: What is that? At the time, they didn't know what
Speaker 1: it was, but there was something else. The lady looked
Speaker 1: up that hand sign and they discovered that that meant
Speaker 1: that she was in trouble. Helped me yep, and she
Speaker 1: called the police. The police pulled and pulled it over
Speaker 1: and saved the child. So that that signal is that
Speaker 1: hand signal, and for people listening, it's all four fingers
Speaker 1: covering your thumb as your thumb goes underneath. You could
Speaker 1: you could look at it on YouTube. It is such
Speaker 1: an important and powerful tool because you can't say things
Speaker 1: in public when you're in that situation, but you can
Speaker 1: sneak a hand You can signal pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: And I love that you brought that up because it
Speaker 2: was only the other day when and saw a Chiropecter
Speaker 2: and we were talking about the hand sign and he said,
Speaker 2: it's interesting, he said, when he has children or teenagers
Speaker 2: and rome the parents think he's looking at the bodies
Speaker 2: of the children, he's not. He's always looking at the
Speaker 2: hand to see if they're signing.
Speaker 1: Really, really, can you.
Speaker 2: Imagine if we had this on billboards across the world.
Speaker 1: This is such a this is such a massive, massive problem.
Speaker 1: But I have I have hope because there seems to
Speaker 1: be a lot more awareness now with that film Sounds,
Speaker 1: I think Sounds of Freedom, and you know all the
Speaker 1: the the Epstein thing that happened. You know, these things
Speaker 1: are starting to come out now and is and it's
Speaker 1: that was not the case ten years ago, twenty years ago.
Speaker 2: It was never und you one hundred percent right, I didn't.
Speaker 2: I did interview Paul Hutchinson, who was the the chief
Speaker 2: producer on Sound of Freedom, and Hey and I both agreed,
Speaker 2: the vast majority of children who are sex trafficked across
Speaker 2: the world sleep in their own beds at night. So Alex,
Speaker 2: we've got to get over the fat this is happening
Speaker 2: in streets around you. We know that by in our
Speaker 2: country and not dissimilar I'm sure yours. But the time
Speaker 2: a girl is sixteen, one and three and one in
Speaker 2: five boys will have been sexually abused. So this is
Speaker 2: bigger than we think. There's more and more being uncovered,
Speaker 2: and we just need to be mindful that for our
Speaker 2: young people, they're being targeted. They're being targeted through things
Speaker 2: like snapchap, Instagram, TikTok, and they don't know it because
Speaker 2: what the predators do is take on the persona of
Speaker 2: the same age child. But you know, just be aware,
Speaker 2: pearance and safe adults, please that not everything is as
Speaker 2: it seems, and we need to teach kids some tools,
Speaker 2: some body safety rules, in some ways to keep themselves
Speaker 2: safe so they can lead adults around them know when
Speaker 2: things aren't right.
Speaker 1: You just said it was such a powerful statement that
Speaker 1: most children who are sex trafficked sleep in their beds
Speaker 1: at night. That that is absolutely terrifying, because I think
Speaker 1: the image in the public's eye is films like taking,
Speaker 1: films like Sounds of Freedom. You know, the very and
Speaker 1: those exist. That situation exists, but that is not the
Speaker 1: majority of what's happening. The majority is actually what happened
Speaker 1: to you family sex trafficking their child. Or there's sex trafficking,
Speaker 1: there's sexual abuse, two different things, similar but different. But
Speaker 1: what happened to you is not just something not just
Speaker 1: sexual abuse, it was sex trafficking. When you said I
Speaker 1: was leased out, you know, to groups, I mean when
Speaker 1: you say that, I think of a car. You lease
Speaker 1: a car, You don't lease a human being. I can't
Speaker 1: even I can't even comprehend the the being a father
Speaker 1: and doing that to your child. I can't, right, I
Speaker 1: just can't even process it. You know, it gets me angry,
Speaker 1: It gets me sad. I can't process that, you know,
Speaker 1: I can process taken that there's a you know, or
Speaker 1: squid games or something like that, which is like these rich,
Speaker 1: you know, guys with masks and they're all, you know,
Speaker 1: all that kind of creepy stuff.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I get that other Epstein Island or that I kind
Speaker 1: of can wrap my head around. But that your your parents,
Speaker 1: that the people that brought you into this world, that
Speaker 1: your loved ones do this to you is something that
Speaker 1: is so so so difficult for me to understand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and unfortunately, over ninety three percent of sexual abuse
Speaker 2: of children and young people is by someone well known
Speaker 2: to them and all their family. So repeat around there.
Speaker 1: I have to ask you because it's something else in
Speaker 1: this subject has come out recently. Is the whole P.
Speaker 1: Diddy thing here in the States, which is explosive to
Speaker 1: say the least. And you know, there isn't anything out
Speaker 1: there that's rock solid just yet, but there's a lot
Speaker 1: of circumstantial evidence being talked about, and you know, Hollywood
Speaker 1: and all of that. And will be right back after
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor and now back to the show.
Speaker 1: You know, when you hear these stories, you're like, how
Speaker 1: how could this go on for decades in plain sight?
Speaker 1: Not even like hidden in a dark alley somewhere or
Speaker 1: in a dungeon somewhere like this was parties, you know,
Speaker 1: people coming in after midnight. Everyone you know who's not
Speaker 1: an adult hasked to leave like these kind of when
Speaker 1: this that story broke, what did you think? What is
Speaker 1: your feeling on that whole, that whole thing that he's
Speaker 1: got going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think two things. One, this child's sexual
Speaker 2: abuse and trafficking is not new. This has been happening
Speaker 2: since time began. What people struggle with and I think
Speaker 2: the reason people struggle is this thing I call cognitive dissonance. So, Alex,
Speaker 2: the reason it's known but never really talked about is
Speaker 2: because it goes against good people's ethics, values and morals.
Speaker 2: And like you just said, you can't even get how
Speaker 2: could a father do that. So for most good people
Speaker 2: they turn away because no, that can't happen. And by
Speaker 2: the way, that child's always but misbehaving, so I think
Speaker 2: they're naughty and they're probably lying, which is what how
Speaker 2: you would have described me. But what people didn't realize
Speaker 2: was it's a cry for help. And so the cognitive
Speaker 2: dissonance is one reason. But I also think, yes, I
Speaker 2: believe it to be true because you know, I'm thinking
Speaker 2: about the children. Among the people that have come forward
Speaker 2: that were children at the time, of boys young as
Speaker 2: nine who was promised by P Diddy that he would
Speaker 2: get them into the music scene. He just didn't realize
Speaker 2: the cost to him would be. You know, another girl
Speaker 2: who was included on a bit laid out with other
Speaker 2: children as party favors for some of these celebrities and
Speaker 2: some of the people that did take part in it.
Speaker 2: You know, there are talks of you know, they were
Speaker 2: heavily drugged. I don't care, it still happened. But the
Speaker 2: other thing I would love to know what you think
Speaker 2: Alex's as well, is there were people there who did
Speaker 2: not take part in that, but they observed it. What's
Speaker 2: your view on their complicity in this?
Speaker 1: Well? I mean, the Me Too movement kind of really
Speaker 1: broke open a lot of that complicity thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I had heard in my travels, in my
Speaker 1: travels going through Hollywood when I was a young man,
Speaker 1: I was in my twenties, and I was invited to
Speaker 1: a lot of these big rooms with the big producers
Speaker 1: and the big movie stars, and I would just hear things.
Speaker 1: I would hear things about certain actors that that would
Speaker 1: be like, I'm sorry, what you know? I still remember,
Speaker 1: I still remember. I won't say his name, but we
Speaker 1: were you know. I almost did a movie for the
Speaker 1: Mafia when I was twenty seven, and twenty million dollar movie.
Speaker 1: So I had a gangster threatening my life on a
Speaker 1: daily basis for a year, one of the more dramatic
Speaker 1: things I've ever had to go through in my life.
Speaker 1: But when I was flown out to la and I
Speaker 1: met a lot of these big celebrities and agents and
Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff I over. I literally was
Speaker 1: hearing an agent, an agent like this actor's agent says, Hey,
Speaker 1: this actor, he really wants to be in your movie.
Speaker 1: He'd love to meet with you, but I have to
Speaker 1: kind of warn you about something. You know, when he
Speaker 1: meets guys, he just likes to grab them in the balls.
Speaker 1: That's the way he says hello. And I was just
Speaker 1: like what. And of course, my gangster h doesn't play that,
Speaker 1: so we never got to meet with him. He goes,
Speaker 1: if he touches me, I'll thrown through a window. Kind of.
Speaker 1: He was an old stool, old school gangster. But I'd
Speaker 1: heard these stories, and I'd heard a lot of them.
Speaker 1: So when the me too movement happened, I saw it.
Speaker 1: But things like Harvey Weinstein the complicit, Like it was
Speaker 1: so complicit. The entire town knew, The entire town knew
Speaker 1: about that, everybody knew about everybody knew about Harvey, but
Speaker 1: yet no one ever did anything. So same thing happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what does that tell us if no one
Speaker 2: even did anything? Is it self preservation?
Speaker 1: Is it?
Speaker 2: I want to be I'm scared of what have you
Speaker 2: might do? It if I.
Speaker 1: When they're that powerful. Same thing with p did he
Speaker 1: He was so powerful in the because he had so
Speaker 1: much dirt on so many people that he was basically
Speaker 1: a he was a mobster. He was he was he
Speaker 1: was the godfather, so he would just you know, he's
Speaker 1: acting like a mafioso essentially, not a music producer. So
Speaker 1: people were terrified. So if they did see something, they're
Speaker 1: not going to say anything because they didn't want anything
Speaker 1: to happen. So it's so it's fascinating.
Speaker 2: But this and everything you've seed, if we extrapolate that
Speaker 2: it and projected onto sixteen and unders the children that
Speaker 2: were being abused, people knew nothing was Seid. So we
Speaker 2: need to start holding mirrors. Ape is society.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, I mean the stuff that look, there's there's
Speaker 1: certain musicians, young musicians and young pop stars who were
Speaker 1: in his circle that I'm just terrified to think about
Speaker 1: what happened to those those kids when they were kids.
Speaker 1: They're adults now, but what happened to them, what they've
Speaker 1: dealt with to get to where they are. Hollywood is
Speaker 1: one of those places that and this is not news.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, there was a documentary on the
Speaker 1: sexual abuse of kids stars on Nickelodeon and a Disney
Speaker 1: Channel and these kind of things, the pedophiles, all that stuff.
Speaker 1: This is not a new thing, but the light that's
Speaker 1: being placed on it is, and it's something that is
Speaker 1: something that's really really important to put out there. But
Speaker 1: I love that you're saying that, Like, what about the
Speaker 1: people who saw that and did nothing, Well, that's something
Speaker 1: that they're going to have to live with. They're going
Speaker 1: to have to live with that because it's either because
Speaker 1: it was self preservation or I don't want to get involved,
Speaker 1: or it's not my problem or any of that stuff.
Speaker 1: I get it. I understand all of that stuff, especially
Speaker 1: in Hollywood, when your career is everything and there's one
Speaker 1: person who could literally make a phone call and you're done,
Speaker 1: and you're done. It's happened. There's happened. There's an Oscar
Speaker 1: winner out there right now who has not worked because
Speaker 1: she crossed somebody. Not on the sexual stuff, but just
Speaker 1: in general, it happens. I get it. I get it,
Speaker 1: But it's some things are more.
Speaker 2: I know, it's just Alex's I'm sure you would agree,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure your audience would. Children can't save themselves.
Speaker 2: They need us. Agreed, agreed, they need us. And in
Speaker 2: the non action, there is action because the action is
Speaker 2: choosing not to act. Sorry, there's a choice. That person
Speaker 2: made a choice. I saw. I may have hated it,
Speaker 2: but I stayed. You chose mate, you chose buddy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And I think that whatever happens with
Speaker 1: that case, the Diddy case, I think it's going to
Speaker 1: be a nuclear bomb going off, because it's not just Hollywood,
Speaker 1: it's music industry, it's business, it's financial CEOs, it's everything.
Speaker 1: Because he I mean, he's been throwing parties for twenty
Speaker 1: five years, you know, all of these kind of things
Speaker 1: for twenty five years. He's been doing this since the nineties.
Speaker 1: So you need to tell me how many people walk
Speaker 1: through those doors, how many people were at one of
Speaker 1: these these infamous parties at one point or another. It's
Speaker 1: going to be it's going to be I think a
Speaker 1: needed nuclear bomb kind of going off in this, in
Speaker 1: this this unfortunate thing that happens in the world. It's
Speaker 1: the kind of light that needs to be shined on this,
Speaker 1: and I think a case like his will do that
Speaker 1: if if if it's allowed out, I think there might
Speaker 1: be there might be some hope in this, but they
Speaker 1: have thousands of hours of tape, thousands of hours that
Speaker 1: they got, so unless they're covering it up or they
Speaker 1: won't release it. But I have a feeling that there's
Speaker 1: some there's some names that don't want to come out,
Speaker 1: that's for sure.
Speaker 2: I bet there are. But you have to ask yourself,
Speaker 2: if you mentioned Epstein Epstein before, do you think while
Speaker 2: you and I still drawing breath, the names will ever
Speaker 2: be released because I don't think they're ever going to
Speaker 2: be released in case, that's what it's a Yeah, So
Speaker 2: the messages kids and teenagers, you have no value here.
Speaker 2: You may have been abused, you may have been exploited,
Speaker 2: your lives may have been ruined, but you are of
Speaker 2: no value here because these megalomaniacs are the ones who
Speaker 2: are more or seen as more important, but equally Alex
Speaker 2: they're being protected. Now that's the corruption, and that's that's
Speaker 2: the stuff we need to be aware of because you know,
Speaker 2: when I think about it, the costs to us globally.
Speaker 2: I'm not talking fiscal, I'm talking spiritually and mentally. Is
Speaker 2: asked horrendous were living in an age where as are
Speaker 2: quoted to you one and three girls and one in
Speaker 2: five boys are experiencing this, then Amazon decreasing. My question
Speaker 2: is where's the noise.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: If this was motor vehicle accidents, what do you think
Speaker 2: would be hit ing?
Speaker 1: Oh god, it'd be lawsuits everywhere. Everybody would be like,
Speaker 1: you can't get into that car. You're killing people. If
Speaker 1: they're right, of course you couldn't. But you know, Gloria,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it's you know, we
Speaker 1: live in a capitalistic world and money is the thing
Speaker 1: that drives this planet, and they're going to save and
Speaker 1: protect and put money above children, above women, above men,
Speaker 1: above humans because it's about money, which infuriates me at
Speaker 1: so many levels, because it's just like, you can't take
Speaker 1: it with you, man, this is not the way to do.
Speaker 1: This is not the way you come That's not what
Speaker 1: you do when you come down here. And I don't know,
Speaker 1: it just it upsets me to my core. It is.
Speaker 1: It's something that I can't really again wrap my head around.
Speaker 1: But I'm so glad that we were able to have
Speaker 1: this kind of conversation and get this thing out there.
Speaker 1: What tell me about your your organization and what you're
Speaker 1: trying to do for people.
Speaker 2: Thank you. So look two parts to it. It's called
Speaker 2: handing the shameback dot org is I said, that's what
Speaker 2: where survivors do when we find a voice, because the
Speaker 2: shame never belonged to us, belong to the adult who
Speaker 2: chose to abuse us. So every time a survivor speaks
Speaker 2: or she is there handing the shame back, so we
Speaker 2: we do. I provide a lot of resource and content
Speaker 2: for survivors. It's all free, just so that they have
Speaker 2: a safe place to land in a way to get
Speaker 2: some information which may help lift them and support them
Speaker 2: and have them feel less alone. The other branch, that
Speaker 2: is the child protection and advocacy, and that's where the
Speaker 2: hand sign comes in. And that's where that third book,
Speaker 2: Keeping Kids Safe comes in, and in there are a
Speaker 2: whole lot of techniques and ideas for safe adults to
Speaker 2: use to educate their own children. Not a book for
Speaker 2: children to read, it's a book for parents to sit
Speaker 2: down with or teachers to teach about because a lot
Speaker 2: of children and teenagers don't know that they can say no,
Speaker 2: or that their body belongs to them, or that if
Speaker 2: they feel unsafe, there are things they can do, you know.
Speaker 2: For instance, one of the one of the chapters in
Speaker 2: the book is tools for Parents, and in there I've
Speaker 2: got as an example, sit down with the kids, sit
Speaker 2: down with the girls one night, have a pizza dinner,
Speaker 2: and say, right, we're going to vote on an emoji.
Speaker 2: If ever you're not here and you're feeling unsafe or
Speaker 2: there's potential for that abuse and you're just not getting
Speaker 2: a good vote, send us an emoji, no words needed.
Speaker 2: We will stop, drop and drive. We're going to come
Speaker 2: and get you, and you're gone from that place. Now.
Speaker 2: For younger children, you know, the family might vote, might
Speaker 2: be a Teddy Bear emoji. For teenagers, whatever's current. But
Speaker 2: the point is you don't have to use words so
Speaker 2: that the predator or the house therein are not aware
Speaker 2: of what's going on. But all they'll know is is
Speaker 2: a knock at the door and you're saying, oh, forgot,
Speaker 2: We've got to go to Gradmr's first thing in the morning.
Speaker 2: Come on, girls, we're out of there, We're out of here,
Speaker 2: or you know. But again, simple little tips, techniques and
Speaker 2: tricks to help educate the children and teenagers in our lives.
Speaker 2: So at least they've got something because at the moment,
Speaker 2: parents don't know what's going on. You know, we talked
Speaker 2: about child sex trafficking. People don't believe this happens in
Speaker 2: their street.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It might be that Uncle John turned up, stayed for
Speaker 2: a few as a mom and dad went home. What
Speaker 2: we may not realize is Uncle John had paid you know,
Speaker 2: his brother or his sister a hundred bucks to spend
Speaker 2: an hour with the teenager.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: And the thing is, I hate to be graphic, but
Speaker 2: it's true. So all of this I decided it's time
Speaker 2: to come full circle. Alex and jask of people some
Speaker 2: information so they can disseminate it and then able to
Speaker 2: use it so they are more prepared. You know. We
Speaker 2: get people here in New Zealand had a family contact
Speaker 2: and say, really stressed, my nephew's been been at school
Speaker 2: and he's now suspended because a group of older kids
Speaker 2: were playing an online game together. Said to him, you've
Speaker 2: got to do something to a girl at school this age.
Speaker 2: It might have been an eight year old, and then
Speaker 2: send us an image and if you don't, we're going
Speaker 2: to share that photo of you that you know you
Speaker 2: had taken for us, and we're going to spread it
Speaker 2: around everywhere. So we call that sex tution. Now there's
Speaker 2: a lot of this happening. There's a lot of things
Speaker 2: safe people, safe adults, good people don't even know exist.
Speaker 2: It's a part of the book Keeping Kids Safe. It's
Speaker 2: a roadmap actually for parents, teachers and others. So at
Speaker 2: least then once you know, you can't not know.
Speaker 1: That's great advice, that's really great advice. Do you have
Speaker 1: any tips or advice for someone who is feeling overwhelmed
Speaker 1: with their healing journey of healing their trauma.
Speaker 2: Yes, Look, I think it comes down to self grace
Speaker 2: and self compassion. As survivors were used to feeling wrong
Speaker 2: that somehow it was our fault, that there's some guilt
Speaker 2: we misplace. So self loathing is usually in there somewhere
Speaker 2: in the top five emotions we feel, so I think
Speaker 2: being kind of self and if you can swap it
Speaker 2: out with what you might say or how you would
Speaker 2: treat your best friend who was sharing your story is
Speaker 2: sharing their story with you.
Speaker 1: If there's one message you like everyone to listen listening
Speaker 1: take away about healing and survival, what it would it be?
Speaker 2: There's always hope, even if there feels like there's none,
Speaker 2: there's hope, and I know that to be true because
Speaker 2: I had to find that now glory.
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you the same questions ask all
Speaker 1: my guests. So what is your definition of living a
Speaker 1: fulfilled life?
Speaker 2: I think one where you can be authentically you, and
Speaker 2: one where joy is a feature in every day of
Speaker 2: your life. Too often, I think we get it around
Speaker 2: the wrong way and put all our energy into work
Speaker 2: and commitments and forget that joy can be found in
Speaker 2: having a laugh with the kids over breakfast, or noticing
Speaker 2: that that dog just banged into a wall, whatever silliness,
Speaker 2: you have the joy within, finding the child within, I
Speaker 2: think and experiencing that is sign of a fulfilled life.
Speaker 1: You had a chance to go back in time and
Speaker 1: speak to little Gloria, What advice would you give her?
Speaker 2: You're a hero and just never ever doubt the beautiful
Speaker 2: spirit you had and that they didn't kill it. It
Speaker 2: was one thing they couldn't get, so stamstrong and steam proud.
Speaker 1: How do you define God or source within?
Speaker 2: It's not outside of you, It always lies within. Just
Speaker 2: tapping into it helps.
Speaker 1: What is love?
Speaker 2: I think it's that feeling of everything that we embrace
Speaker 2: that lights us up, that feels potentially available to everybody.
Speaker 1: Because it is what is the ultimate purpose of life.
Speaker 2: To be who you are living your purpose? Well, you
Speaker 2: have a unique.
Speaker 1: Quot and where can people find out more about you
Speaker 1: and the amazing work you're doing in the world.
Speaker 2: Thank you so hanging the shameback dot org and Gloriamasters
Speaker 2: dot com.
Speaker 1: And Gloria, do you have any parting messages for the audience?
Speaker 2: Just that if and doubt do something. But I'd just
Speaker 2: like to read at the final quote out of the
Speaker 2: BOP keeping kids safe, if I may, because I think
Speaker 2: it's very powerful. Whose job is it to protect children?
Speaker 2: She asked? Not mind seed one not my problem, said another.
Speaker 2: The question then becomes, if not you, then who?
Speaker 1: Lauria, thank you so much for this conversation. I really
Speaker 1: do hope that this does help people listening around the
Speaker 1: world for many many years to come. And I appreciate
Speaker 1: you and everything that you're doing to help awaken and
Speaker 1: help this planet and this and our consciousness. So I
Speaker 1: appreciate you so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, thank you, thank you for your
Speaker 2: wonderful interview.
Speaker 1: Thank you for spending this sacred time with us today.
Speaker 1: If you feel called to explore this conversation further, you'll
Speaker 1: find the show notes for this episode at Next levelsoul
Speaker 1: dot com Forward slash five five four, and if your
Speaker 1: soul is craving an even deeper journey, step into Next
Speaker 1: Level Soul TV our streaming sanctuary for spiritual films, documentaries,
Speaker 1: original shows, guided meditations, channeling sessions, audiobooks, and transformative teachings.
Speaker 1: It's a space created to support your awakening, you're healing,
Speaker 1: and your return to the truth of who you really are.
Speaker 1: Begin your journey at Next levelsoul dot tv. Until next time,
Speaker 1: keep expanding, keep seeking, and keep walking your path towards
Speaker 1: the next level of your soul.
Speaker 2: The bat and the co