Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right
back to the Michael Thomas interview with the OIG Inspectors
and we're getting down to the end here. Maybe another episode,
two episodes or so, and we should be at the end.
And then after this we're going to dive into other
depositions and more unsealed files. All right, back to the
document question. Okay, so and again if we go back
to actually the video and check to see if you're
doing the counts, is that again? And I'm only saying
this because I was just to remind you that you're
under oath. Thomas, I understand question, and this is where
that we can bring this back up. Thomas cuts them off.
I totally understand. If you go back to the video,
you will see that you'll catch me doing my rounds
or you'll catch me doing my accounts. Like I said.
Then that's why I said, whereas I'm not perfect, like
I said ninety five, maybe the oh hold up, you know,
he didn't do this one an hour went by, but
he did it at an hour and one minute. So
then technically by the paperwork that I didn't do it
every half an hour, correct, if I do it every
other hour, technically by the paperwork, I didn't do half
an hour round. I did an hour round. Question, but
you would have had to still certify that you did
it every half hour. Thomas, No, you don't have to
certify that you did it every half hour. I don't
believe that has to be. If you write on the
paper that I did it every hour, it's just when
the round was conducted. When I conducted the round. Question,
So in order for the rounds to be completed, you
don't have to actually sign it every thirty minutes. Thomas.
It could be. I'm not saying that it has to be.
I'm supposed to be done every thirty minutes. But if
I didn't do it every thirty minutes, and I did
one an hour, that's when I wrote that time on there.
Question all right, So you wouldn't then go back to
fill it in that thirty minutes Thomas No, I wouldn't
go back to fill it in question like see how
they have like so you would leave one blank if
it wasn't conducted. Thomas. No, you wouldn't leave a blank
because somebody would tell you to fill it in. Question.
That's what I'm saying, Thomas. If it was from twelve
thirty to one, and I did the round once, so
I just put twelve thirty to one. Like you'll see
some round sheets, it says from twelve to I didn't
do it at but between twelve thirty and I put
twelve forty five. The round is still conducted. Question, So
what are you saying, Thomas, It probably wasn't done in
the half an hour block. Question? So you put, Thomas,
it probably wasn't just done in a half an hour block,
but it was still conducted. Question. Right, So a round
was conducted, But if it was covering two, if it
was conducting an hour block, how would you fill in
the two? Would they be identical? Thomas? As you can know,
because as you can see right here, it's not a
specific time, because this just says as long as it's
between this time. So I did it at twelve ten.
I started here at twelve ten, and then I did
the round here it lapped over to twelve forty because
I got to talking to an inmate or like that.
It's still round is still conducted. Then right here, you
know what I'm saying. I go at twelve fifty two,
and I did it. I did a fast round. I
did it from twelve fifty two to twelve fifty nine.
The round is still conducted. But even though the last
though you're caught up in, I understand because it's black
and white, it's not just done. Just like that. It
can be done at any given time as long as
the round is conducted. It doesn't have to be by policy.
It's supposed to be in the thirty minute block. That's
when you're talking policy. But he gets cut off with
thirty to forty Yeah, question, thirty to forty minute block.
But like I say, if I did it at twelve
ten and did it at twelve forty, then then right
here I wanted to just because I wanted to get
a round done. I conducted at twelve fifty two to
twelve fifty nine. It's still within the block. It's still conducted. Question. Well,
that's conducting around, correct. But what I thought you said
it was like you might not do it for a
whole hour. Thomas, excuse me. I apologize. That's a twelve
ten to twelve forty to twelve forty two. I'm saying
that's an hour because that's pretty much. We got twenty minutes,
ten minutes before and ten minutes after. Then you have
an hour. But that's the whole hour. So if I
did it for twelve to one, then I did it
from one to two. It's still conducted. It's just not
conducted in your thirty minute span. As you say, I
didn't do the in between, but it's still conducted. You
see what I'm saying. Question no, Thomas, Okay, question because
you're talking about one to two. That's a whole hour.
And then we're not talking about within thirty minutes, Thomas,
but within the thirty minutes. That's not doing it every
thirty minutes. It's like how it's supposed to be done.
But then if I did it twelve to one, it's
still conducted, but it's not conducted the correct way. A
round is still conducted, but it's not conducted the correct way. No,
question no, because Thomas, do you understand? Question no? I
understand what you're saying. Because if you're saying you're doing
the round within an hour, and you have to document
it one round every thirty minutes, so you can only
then fill out one of these blocks, which one are
you going to fill out or are you going to
do the same thing in an identical place twelve oh
nine Thomas, Yeah, you just he gets cut off. But
at twelve thirty will there be identical blocks identical times? Thomas, Well,
that's up to the person question. But what you're saying
is that if you did it at twelve twenty five
and ended at twelve thirty five, that covered those thirty minutes. Thomas, No,
you still put that in the block question. You're saying
the start time and the end time he's cut off
by Thomas, No, you still put that in the one block.
If I did it from twelve tis twenty five and
at twelve thirty, I would still put that in one
block and then this next one whatever the time is,
like I said, twelve forty one and then twelve to
twelve forty two. Because remember, this is just a tier.
This is not the whole round. This is just a tier.
So what you're saying is this is twelve to one
to twelve ten. This is just one tier. G tier
question yep, Thomas, So then you've got twelve eleven to
twelve ten. Remember this is just one tier. Question, Sure,
each one of these different tier Thomas. Each one's a
different tier, so it's taking a minute a tier. Question, right, Thomas,
So that's one tier and then you've got another twelve
oh five to twelve indiscernible. That's just one tier. I'm
doing twelve forty five. So then the whole thing question yeah, Thomas,
So now you have to get from twelve o five
to twelve twenty something is when that whole round was
done in a twenty minute span. Do you got me
or are you totally lost? Question? I understand what you're saying.
You did it within the hour Rodriguez, right, and your mark.
But here's the thing. You're signing off or initially according
to the fact that you've done the count within the
time period. Is that right or wrong? Thomas? Yeah, she
initial that she did it between twelve oh nine and
twelve ten. Question No, No, let's forget about it. Just
talk about you, Thomas. Okay. Question when you do your rounds,
mister Thomas, When I do my rounds, well, I haven't
done around in over two or something years. I do
my rounds at twelve to twelve ten, I mean twelve
o'clock to twelve thirty in that block. If I did
it the incorrect way. I did it from twelve. It's
still I got it in between that time, but I
still wrote twelve to twelve thirty, so twelve to one.
Question Okay, I can't he gets cut off by Thomas.
I don't even understand what your question is. Question no, No,
I'll come back to this another part. When do you
think these initials were put on? Thomas? I don't know
when she wrote it. I don't know when she did it.
Question when did these round sheets get submitted Thomas at
the end of the day. Question at the end of
the day, Thomas, end of the whole work day, not
the end of every work period, every eight hours. Question
you wouldn't happen to know if she went back and
sign these after Thomas, I wouldn't know. Question initial log Thomas.
Like I said, I lost track of Noel. Question it
sounds like it may. It looks like if this is
what you're saying, that she did these rounds at six ten,
six eleven, What time Thomas, they're not in order? Question?
What time does breakfast get there? Thomas? Breakfast is no
standard time, especially not on the weekends. You're talking about
on a Saturday. Question the last one she wrote was
six thirteen. You assume that she did it right before
you know, you discovered Epstein. Thomas, could have been question,
that would be the assumption, Thomas, that would be the
assumption by the binder. I don't remember the time the
food cart came up. Question, but you didn't witness her
actually signing Thomas. No, I don't know when she put
her signature on that. Question. You don't remember like talking like, Hey,
I'm going to grab the food cart. You take care
of the round sheets, Thomas, No, question, all right, just
so that the whole thing that we just talked about
isn't convoluted. What we talked about before was that you've
done the majority of the counts and rounds, but not
all of them. Thomas. I usually just plan on doing
my rounds. Yeah, question, what's that? Thomas? I'm usually spot
on with doing my rounds. Question. Well, when we talked
about it before, you said you weren't always Thomas, I'm
not perfect. Question, so we're appointing to specific ones. Thomas.
I can tell you he gets cut off where the
rounds Thomas again cuts him off that I wasn't perfect.
Question right and counts that you've conducted. You believe that
you've conducted the majority of them. Thomas, I've done all
my rounds. Yes, question if you falsified some but not
a lot. When I say falsified, you wrote in that
you conducted them, but they weren't actually conducted. Thomas, No,
that's not what I'm saying. I wrote what I wrote
my rounds. Question for the count slips, we're saying Thomas
cuts them off. Yeah, I think he gets cut off.
That wasn't the first Thomas again cuts him off. You're
talking about the counts. This is the rounds or the
count slips question. We're talking the indiscernible Thomas. I said,
I'm not I said that I'm not perfect. Question right, Thomas,
You know what I mean. I don't want to sit
up here that on one hundred percent perfect. What I'm
saying is that I did my rounds. I was usually
spot on with my rounds, and I'm doing what I'm
supposed to do as far as the course of my job. Question. Okay,
so you're saying that these anytime that you worked in
the shoe and you marked off, people have marked off
that you did them every thirty minutes. Thomas. I don't
know what people marked off. I only know what I
do when I Usually I get my stuff done. Question.
So when you're in the shoe on all those overtime
shifts that we just showed you, you're doing rounds every
thirty minutes, Thomas, I can't say that I don't do
rounds every thirty minutes. Question. That's the question, Thomas. Okay,
I can't say that I did rounds every thirty minutes. No,
I can't say that I did the rounds every thirty minutes. Question.
So you're doing them most of the time, but some
of them are marked off when they weren't actually conducted. Thomas.
Maybe maybe question Okay, And the same thing with the
count slips. You've done most of the count slips. Thomas
cuts them off. No, I usually get my counts done.
Usually I get my counts done. Question. But not all
of them. So if we go back and we find
some times you didn't do it, Thomas, you can go back,
he gets cut off. We're probably going to find if
we're reviewing video, Thomas, of the fourteen years, you may
have me one time where I didn't get one done. Question.
But even if we're just talking about like August or July.
If we go back and review those, we're going to
find at least a few that weren't conducted and that
we're written in. Is that correct, Thomas, I actually don't know.
I honestly don't know, question, because I thought we already
covered this, and you already said Thomas, we did already
cover that. But I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know. Question.
I thought my understanding from the conversation was that, Yep,
there's count slips that I've created in the past, most
of them conducted, Some of them aren't going you know.
Some of them, yes, I just signed them and put
them the count number. But I you know, especially between
the hours of twelve am and five am, Thomas, that's
all my overtime right there, it's twelve am. He gets
cut off, right, That's what I'm saying, Thomas, except for
one day watch question, because there's that, so like, not
every twelve am, three am, and five am count was
conducted during a shift. Thomas, I don't know, question, most
of them, but not all of them. Thomas. I don't
want to say. I want to say all, but honestly
I don't know. I want to say all. I want
to say all, but then I'm not trying to get
caught up in a lie and say, oh no, this
one time that I didn't just do that question. I'm
just trying to reconcile what we talked about like two
hours ago, Thomas exactly. Question, because two hours ago Thomas
cuts them off. I said I wasn't perfect, and so
maybe I didn't get one done or not. I don't know.
Like I said, I'm not perfect, I didn't get maybe
I didn't get one of those, but I don't know.
That's exactly what I said two hours ago. Question. You know,
my understanding was that you Okay, so you're saying that
you believe actually your count slips are he gets cut
off by Thomas. I believe my count slips are good.
I believe they're good. Question. Okay, So when we go
back and review the video, we're going to see that
you were actually doing them, Thomas. You're going to see
that I get my accounts done, yes, question, and same
thing for your rounds. Thomas. You should see me get
most of my rounds done. Question. All right, because now
that you're saying this, we have to go back and
review those things. Question. I'll tell you that I'm saying
that I should have gotten most of my rounds, and
if I didn't get them all done, I'm not trying
to lie and say I didn't. Question. Can we go
outside for a minute, mister Mitchell ass redacted answers absolutely.
We can take time out so they get back. All right.
The recorder is back on. It's currently two eighteen pm
on June seventeenth, twenty twenty one. Again everyone is present,
aside from I don't believe the other attorney is on
the phone right now. And mister Thomas, I remind you
again this is voluntary and you are under oath. Is
there anything that you will like to add with regard
to the rounds in the counts that you have conducted
and certified in the past prior to August tenth, twenty nineteen,
Thomas that I have not completed all my rounds. That's it. Question.
What about your accounts in the count slips? Question or
to answer, I have not completed all my accounts. Question?
All right, So in the past, prior to August tenth,
twenty nineteen, there are times that you were in the
shoe that you didn't conduct all of your accounts, but
you did certify that they were conducted? Is that correct? Thomas? Yes? Question?
All right, the same thing for the rounds. And there
are times that you certified on the round sheets that
they were conducted, but they were or you or the
person that you were working with certified they were conducted
when they were in fact not conducted. Thomas, yes question.
And I know you were saying like before, like estimates,
but like how often would that happen? Thomas, I really
couldn't tell you question? Was it a regular occurrence? Thomas,
I really don't know. Question No, but did it happen
in the past? Yes? Question, but you're sure you're not
sure how often? Thomas? Yes? Question? Okay. Would you like
to follow up with additional questioning on that question from
another redacted investigator? During those times when you didn't commit
conduct the rounds or the counts, was it only with
toa Nova toell Nova, I mean Tova Noel Thomas, I
don't remember if I worked with her before or not?
Question Okay, which other CEOs were you working with when
this incident happened? Thomas, I've been there for fourteen years.
I can't remember exactly who. I really don't know who
I worked with at the time. Question, so this has
a span over fourteen years? Thomas No, I don't know.
I don't know when this happened or not. Question. Okay,
that's all. Question, Okay, anything else you want to add Thomas, No,
not at all. Question any further clarification Thomas, no, thank you.
Question okay, it's fairly again. You can and you may Thomas,
it's no problem. I'm okay. Question. Is there anything you
want to add to this specific instance? Thomas No, I
don't question. Is there a certain belief that you have
as to why Jeffrey Epstein got into the place that
he was. Is there any reason why you think that occurred? Thomas,
I can't speak for any of that. No question. No, okay,
And you're sure that we want to conclude this question? Yes,
question so we don't have to revisit anything later on
in the date. Anything you can think of? Answer nothing
yet another redacted person. You're the case agent, so I
want to make sure. Question that's it. Nothing because we
cover pretty much everything. Thomas, no problem. I'm here whenever
you all need me again. Question all right, let me
just do a quick review and make sure that we're
good and hopefully this can be it. All right, are
you confident with all of your answers? Again, knowing that
you're under oath, there's nothing that you want to clarify
before we end this. This would be the time to
do that. Thomas, No, sir, question, No additional information, Thomas nope. Question.
No questions that we're missing that we should ask, Thomas
nope question. All right, this is Senior Agent redacted. It's
currently to twenty one on June seventeenth, twenty twenty one,
and I'm turning off the recorder. All right, folks, There
you have it, the full deposition of Michael Thomas after
he was questioned by the OIG Inspectors in the wake
of Jeffrey Epstein's death. All the information that goes with
this episode can be found in the description box.