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Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

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Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right

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back to the Michael Thomas interview with the OIG Inspectors

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and we're getting down to the end here. Maybe another episode,

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two episodes or so, and we should be at the end.

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And then after this we're going to dive into other

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depositions and more unsealed files. All right, back to the

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document question. Okay, so and again if we go back

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to actually the video and check to see if you're

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doing the counts, is that again? And I'm only saying

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this because I was just to remind you that you're

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under oath. Thomas, I understand question, and this is where

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that we can bring this back up. Thomas cuts them off.

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I totally understand. If you go back to the video,

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you will see that you'll catch me doing my rounds

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or you'll catch me doing my accounts. Like I said.

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Then that's why I said, whereas I'm not perfect, like

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I said ninety five, maybe the oh hold up, you know,

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he didn't do this one an hour went by, but

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he did it at an hour and one minute. So

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then technically by the paperwork that I didn't do it

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every half an hour, correct, if I do it every

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other hour, technically by the paperwork, I didn't do half

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an hour round. I did an hour round. Question, but

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you would have had to still certify that you did

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it every half hour. Thomas, No, you don't have to

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certify that you did it every half hour. I don't

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believe that has to be. If you write on the

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paper that I did it every hour, it's just when

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the round was conducted. When I conducted the round. Question,

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So in order for the rounds to be completed, you

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don't have to actually sign it every thirty minutes. Thomas.

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It could be. I'm not saying that it has to be.

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I'm supposed to be done every thirty minutes. But if

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I didn't do it every thirty minutes, and I did

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one an hour, that's when I wrote that time on there.

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Question all right, So you wouldn't then go back to

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fill it in that thirty minutes Thomas No, I wouldn't

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go back to fill it in question like see how

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they have like so you would leave one blank if

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it wasn't conducted. Thomas. No, you wouldn't leave a blank

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because somebody would tell you to fill it in. Question.

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That's what I'm saying, Thomas. If it was from twelve

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thirty to one, and I did the round once, so

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I just put twelve thirty to one. Like you'll see

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some round sheets, it says from twelve to I didn't

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do it at but between twelve thirty and I put

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twelve forty five. The round is still conducted. Question, So

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what are you saying, Thomas, It probably wasn't done in

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the half an hour block. Question? So you put, Thomas,

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it probably wasn't just done in a half an hour block,

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but it was still conducted. Question. Right, So a round

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was conducted, But if it was covering two, if it

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was conducting an hour block, how would you fill in

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the two? Would they be identical? Thomas? As you can know,

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because as you can see right here, it's not a

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specific time, because this just says as long as it's

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between this time. So I did it at twelve ten.

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I started here at twelve ten, and then I did

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the round here it lapped over to twelve forty because

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I got to talking to an inmate or like that.

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It's still round is still conducted. Then right here, you

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know what I'm saying. I go at twelve fifty two,

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and I did it. I did a fast round. I

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did it from twelve fifty two to twelve fifty nine.

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The round is still conducted. But even though the last

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though you're caught up in, I understand because it's black

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and white, it's not just done. Just like that. It

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can be done at any given time as long as

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the round is conducted. It doesn't have to be by policy.

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It's supposed to be in the thirty minute block. That's

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when you're talking policy. But he gets cut off with

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thirty to forty Yeah, question, thirty to forty minute block.

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But like I say, if I did it at twelve

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ten and did it at twelve forty, then then right

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here I wanted to just because I wanted to get

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a round done. I conducted at twelve fifty two to

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twelve fifty nine. It's still within the block. It's still conducted. Question. Well,

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that's conducting around, correct. But what I thought you said

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it was like you might not do it for a

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whole hour. Thomas, excuse me. I apologize. That's a twelve

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ten to twelve forty to twelve forty two. I'm saying

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that's an hour because that's pretty much. We got twenty minutes,

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ten minutes before and ten minutes after. Then you have

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an hour. But that's the whole hour. So if I

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did it for twelve to one, then I did it

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from one to two. It's still conducted. It's just not

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conducted in your thirty minute span. As you say, I

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didn't do the in between, but it's still conducted. You

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see what I'm saying. Question no, Thomas, Okay, question because

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you're talking about one to two. That's a whole hour.

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And then we're not talking about within thirty minutes, Thomas,

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but within the thirty minutes. That's not doing it every

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thirty minutes. It's like how it's supposed to be done.

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But then if I did it twelve to one, it's

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still conducted, but it's not conducted the correct way. A

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round is still conducted, but it's not conducted the correct way. No,

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question no, because Thomas, do you understand? Question no? I

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understand what you're saying. Because if you're saying you're doing

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the round within an hour, and you have to document

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it one round every thirty minutes, so you can only

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then fill out one of these blocks, which one are

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you going to fill out or are you going to

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do the same thing in an identical place twelve oh

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nine Thomas, Yeah, you just he gets cut off. But

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at twelve thirty will there be identical blocks identical times? Thomas, Well,

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that's up to the person question. But what you're saying

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is that if you did it at twelve twenty five

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and ended at twelve thirty five, that covered those thirty minutes. Thomas, No,

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you still put that in the block question. You're saying

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the start time and the end time he's cut off

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by Thomas, No, you still put that in the one block.

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If I did it from twelve tis twenty five and

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at twelve thirty, I would still put that in one

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block and then this next one whatever the time is,

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like I said, twelve forty one and then twelve to

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twelve forty two. Because remember, this is just a tier.

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This is not the whole round. This is just a tier.

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So what you're saying is this is twelve to one

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to twelve ten. This is just one tier. G tier

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question yep, Thomas, So then you've got twelve eleven to

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twelve ten. Remember this is just one tier. Question, Sure,

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each one of these different tier Thomas. Each one's a

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different tier, so it's taking a minute a tier. Question, right, Thomas,

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So that's one tier and then you've got another twelve

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oh five to twelve indiscernible. That's just one tier. I'm

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doing twelve forty five. So then the whole thing question yeah, Thomas,

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So now you have to get from twelve o five

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to twelve twenty something is when that whole round was

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done in a twenty minute span. Do you got me

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or are you totally lost? Question? I understand what you're saying.

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You did it within the hour Rodriguez, right, and your mark.

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But here's the thing. You're signing off or initially according

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to the fact that you've done the count within the

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time period. Is that right or wrong? Thomas? Yeah, she

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initial that she did it between twelve oh nine and

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twelve ten. Question No, No, let's forget about it. Just

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talk about you, Thomas. Okay. Question when you do your rounds,

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mister Thomas, When I do my rounds, well, I haven't

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done around in over two or something years. I do

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my rounds at twelve to twelve ten, I mean twelve

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o'clock to twelve thirty in that block. If I did

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it the incorrect way. I did it from twelve. It's

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still I got it in between that time, but I

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still wrote twelve to twelve thirty, so twelve to one.

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Question Okay, I can't he gets cut off by Thomas.

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I don't even understand what your question is. Question no, No,

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I'll come back to this another part. When do you

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think these initials were put on? Thomas? I don't know

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when she wrote it. I don't know when she did it.

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Question when did these round sheets get submitted Thomas at

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the end of the day. Question at the end of

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the day, Thomas, end of the whole work day, not

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the end of every work period, every eight hours. Question

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you wouldn't happen to know if she went back and

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sign these after Thomas, I wouldn't know. Question initial log Thomas.

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Like I said, I lost track of Noel. Question it

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sounds like it may. It looks like if this is

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what you're saying, that she did these rounds at six ten,

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six eleven, What time Thomas, they're not in order? Question?

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What time does breakfast get there? Thomas? Breakfast is no

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standard time, especially not on the weekends. You're talking about

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on a Saturday. Question the last one she wrote was

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six thirteen. You assume that she did it right before

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you know, you discovered Epstein. Thomas, could have been question,

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that would be the assumption, Thomas, that would be the

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assumption by the binder. I don't remember the time the

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food cart came up. Question, but you didn't witness her

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actually signing Thomas. No, I don't know when she put

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her signature on that. Question. You don't remember like talking like, Hey,

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I'm going to grab the food cart. You take care

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of the round sheets, Thomas, No, question, all right, just

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so that the whole thing that we just talked about

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isn't convoluted. What we talked about before was that you've

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done the majority of the counts and rounds, but not

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all of them. Thomas. I usually just plan on doing

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my rounds. Yeah, question, what's that? Thomas? I'm usually spot

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on with doing my rounds. Question. Well, when we talked

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about it before, you said you weren't always Thomas, I'm

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not perfect. Question, so we're appointing to specific ones. Thomas.

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I can tell you he gets cut off where the

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rounds Thomas again cuts him off that I wasn't perfect.

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Question right and counts that you've conducted. You believe that

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you've conducted the majority of them. Thomas, I've done all

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my rounds. Yes, question if you falsified some but not

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a lot. When I say falsified, you wrote in that

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you conducted them, but they weren't actually conducted. Thomas, No,

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that's not what I'm saying. I wrote what I wrote

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my rounds. Question for the count slips, we're saying Thomas

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cuts them off. Yeah, I think he gets cut off.

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That wasn't the first Thomas again cuts him off. You're

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talking about the counts. This is the rounds or the

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count slips question. We're talking the indiscernible Thomas. I said,

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I'm not I said that I'm not perfect. Question right, Thomas,

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You know what I mean. I don't want to sit

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up here that on one hundred percent perfect. What I'm

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saying is that I did my rounds. I was usually

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spot on with my rounds, and I'm doing what I'm

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supposed to do as far as the course of my job. Question. Okay,

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so you're saying that these anytime that you worked in

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the shoe and you marked off, people have marked off

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that you did them every thirty minutes. Thomas. I don't

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know what people marked off. I only know what I

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do when I Usually I get my stuff done. Question.

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So when you're in the shoe on all those overtime

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shifts that we just showed you, you're doing rounds every

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thirty minutes, Thomas, I can't say that I don't do

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rounds every thirty minutes. Question. That's the question, Thomas. Okay,

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I can't say that I did rounds every thirty minutes. No,

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I can't say that I did the rounds every thirty minutes. Question.

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So you're doing them most of the time, but some

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of them are marked off when they weren't actually conducted. Thomas.

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Maybe maybe question Okay, And the same thing with the

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count slips. You've done most of the count slips. Thomas

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cuts them off. No, I usually get my counts done.

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Usually I get my counts done. Question. But not all

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of them. So if we go back and we find

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some times you didn't do it, Thomas, you can go back,

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he gets cut off. We're probably going to find if

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we're reviewing video, Thomas, of the fourteen years, you may

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have me one time where I didn't get one done. Question.

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But even if we're just talking about like August or July.

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If we go back and review those, we're going to

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find at least a few that weren't conducted and that

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we're written in. Is that correct, Thomas, I actually don't know.

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I honestly don't know, question, because I thought we already

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covered this, and you already said Thomas, we did already

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cover that. But I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know. Question.

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I thought my understanding from the conversation was that, Yep,

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there's count slips that I've created in the past, most

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of them conducted, Some of them aren't going you know.

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Some of them, yes, I just signed them and put

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them the count number. But I you know, especially between

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the hours of twelve am and five am, Thomas, that's

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all my overtime right there, it's twelve am. He gets

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cut off, right, That's what I'm saying, Thomas, except for

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one day watch question, because there's that, so like, not

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every twelve am, three am, and five am count was

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conducted during a shift. Thomas, I don't know, question, most

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of them, but not all of them. Thomas. I don't

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want to say. I want to say all, but honestly

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I don't know. I want to say all. I want

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to say all, but then I'm not trying to get

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caught up in a lie and say, oh no, this

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one time that I didn't just do that question. I'm

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just trying to reconcile what we talked about like two

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hours ago, Thomas exactly. Question, because two hours ago Thomas

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cuts them off. I said I wasn't perfect, and so

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maybe I didn't get one done or not. I don't know.

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Like I said, I'm not perfect, I didn't get maybe

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I didn't get one of those, but I don't know.

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That's exactly what I said two hours ago. Question. You know,

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my understanding was that you Okay, so you're saying that

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you believe actually your count slips are he gets cut

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off by Thomas. I believe my count slips are good.

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I believe they're good. Question. Okay, So when we go

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back and review the video, we're going to see that

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you were actually doing them, Thomas. You're going to see

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that I get my accounts done, yes, question, and same

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thing for your rounds. Thomas. You should see me get

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most of my rounds done. Question. All right, because now

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that you're saying this, we have to go back and

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review those things. Question. I'll tell you that I'm saying

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that I should have gotten most of my rounds, and

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if I didn't get them all done, I'm not trying

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to lie and say I didn't. Question. Can we go

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outside for a minute, mister Mitchell ass redacted answers absolutely.

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We can take time out so they get back. All right.

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The recorder is back on. It's currently two eighteen pm

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on June seventeenth, twenty twenty one. Again everyone is present,

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aside from I don't believe the other attorney is on

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the phone right now. And mister Thomas, I remind you

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again this is voluntary and you are under oath. Is

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there anything that you will like to add with regard

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to the rounds in the counts that you have conducted

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and certified in the past prior to August tenth, twenty nineteen,

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Thomas that I have not completed all my rounds. That's it. Question.

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What about your accounts in the count slips? Question or

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to answer, I have not completed all my accounts. Question?

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All right, So in the past, prior to August tenth,

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twenty nineteen, there are times that you were in the

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shoe that you didn't conduct all of your accounts, but

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you did certify that they were conducted? Is that correct? Thomas? Yes? Question?

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All right, the same thing for the rounds. And there

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are times that you certified on the round sheets that

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they were conducted, but they were or you or the

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person that you were working with certified they were conducted

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when they were in fact not conducted. Thomas, yes question.

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And I know you were saying like before, like estimates,

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but like how often would that happen? Thomas, I really

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couldn't tell you question? Was it a regular occurrence? Thomas,

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I really don't know. Question No, but did it happen

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in the past? Yes? Question, but you're sure you're not

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sure how often? Thomas? Yes? Question? Okay. Would you like

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to follow up with additional questioning on that question from

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another redacted investigator? During those times when you didn't commit

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conduct the rounds or the counts, was it only with

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toa Nova toell Nova, I mean Tova Noel Thomas, I

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don't remember if I worked with her before or not?

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Question Okay, which other CEOs were you working with when

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this incident happened? Thomas, I've been there for fourteen years.

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I can't remember exactly who. I really don't know who

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I worked with at the time. Question, so this has

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a span over fourteen years? Thomas No, I don't know.

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I don't know when this happened or not. Question. Okay,

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that's all. Question, Okay, anything else you want to add Thomas, No,

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not at all. Question any further clarification Thomas, no, thank you.

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Question okay, it's fairly again. You can and you may Thomas,

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it's no problem. I'm okay. Question. Is there anything you

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want to add to this specific instance? Thomas No, I

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don't question. Is there a certain belief that you have

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as to why Jeffrey Epstein got into the place that

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he was. Is there any reason why you think that occurred? Thomas,

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I can't speak for any of that. No question. No, okay,

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And you're sure that we want to conclude this question? Yes,

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question so we don't have to revisit anything later on

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in the date. Anything you can think of? Answer nothing

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yet another redacted person. You're the case agent, so I

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want to make sure. Question that's it. Nothing because we

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cover pretty much everything. Thomas, no problem. I'm here whenever

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you all need me again. Question all right, let me

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just do a quick review and make sure that we're

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good and hopefully this can be it. All right, are

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you confident with all of your answers? Again, knowing that

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you're under oath, there's nothing that you want to clarify

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before we end this. This would be the time to

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do that. Thomas, No, sir, question, No additional information, Thomas nope. Question.

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No questions that we're missing that we should ask, Thomas

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nope question. All right, this is Senior Agent redacted. It's

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currently to twenty one on June seventeenth, twenty twenty one,

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and I'm turning off the recorder. All right, folks, There

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you have it, the full deposition of Michael Thomas after

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he was questioned by the OIG Inspectors in the wake

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of Jeffrey Epstein's death. All the information that goes with

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this episode can be found in the description box.