Speaker 1: Thomas Kniff is one of our great attorneys. We have
Speaker 1: them all on this show. You know, Alan Dershowitz, Joseph Tacopina,
Speaker 1: Author I Dollar, even my buddy Jose Baiez down in Miami.
Speaker 1: But Caniff is as good as it gets. Remember he
Speaker 1: served as an assistant district attorney under Janine Piro. He
Speaker 1: was a nominee for the Manhattan District Attorney. He got
Speaker 1: screwed by the Republican Party, so the fat, stupid racist
Speaker 1: Alvin Bragg won. He also served in our Army National Guard.
Speaker 1: George Advocate, the general in that corps. A veteran of
Speaker 1: the Iraq War. He's a hero. He earned the Army
Speaker 1: Commendation Medal and the Global War on Terrorism Medal.
Speaker 2: Look at this.
Speaker 1: He's the recipient of the Ronald Reagan Award for the
Speaker 1: Advancement of Individual Liberty, the Marine Corps League Appreciation Award,
Speaker 1: and as an inductee. This is the biggest one of all.
Speaker 1: You ready for this, the massive Peaqua High School Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame. Come on now, undergrad University of Rochester law
Speaker 1: work at Hofstra was swore in Vicky Palladino. This guy
Speaker 1: does it all and Dave works with Steve Razor, a
Speaker 1: pretty good guy as well, and he's an author and
Speaker 1: he's got a new book out the name of the
Speaker 1: book is Tuxedo Park, and I'm excited to tell to
Speaker 1: talk about it. Here is my good friend Tom Kaniff Thomas.
Speaker 1: Good morning, buddy, how are you?
Speaker 3: Good morning, said, and as always, thank you for your
Speaker 3: overly gracious introduction. I don't know who that guy was
Speaker 3: you were talking about. I'll take it.
Speaker 1: Did you really do all that you could get? All
Speaker 1: that is? Is that true? All that stuff?
Speaker 2: I mean, you blow me away.
Speaker 3: I thought I was a big deal from one of
Speaker 3: my hockey one of my favorite hockey movies, slap Shot Works.
Speaker 3: That's what I said in me your book.
Speaker 1: And of course you know, on top of all that,
Speaker 1: most people really do know you because you took on
Speaker 1: that Daniel Penny case Ew and Razor and every decent
Speaker 1: human being, every decent human being knew that Daniel Penny
Speaker 1: was a hero that day on the subways and the
Speaker 1: guy was not the guy that died, and some watching
Speaker 1: it he died. We do this all the time, right,
Speaker 1: whether it's pretty or good in Minnesota or this guy
Speaker 1: on the train. We don't want to see people die,
Speaker 1: but sometimes they do. And in this case, Daniel Penny
Speaker 1: was a hero, but for some reason you and raise her.
Speaker 1: How to convince this moron, Alvin Bragg? You know, you know,
Speaker 1: after I indicted him to that was the truth, and
Speaker 1: you did do it. So I would say that of
Speaker 1: all the great things you've done, the Daniel Penny verdict
Speaker 1: is probably at the very top of your list.
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, that's certainly, that's certainly what I'm knowing for.
Speaker 3: You know, it's funny. It was on it was on
Speaker 3: Jack John Katsumethes's show last weekend. He brought me on
Speaker 3: to talk about the book very graciously, and he was
Speaker 3: kind of going through my resume like you did. And
Speaker 3: then I start talking about the book and he goes,
Speaker 3: but tell what you're really known for. Well, you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: I guess the Daniel Penny thing, but hey, I want
Speaker 3: to talk about the book.
Speaker 1: Well, it's true that Daniel Penny thing was a big deal.
Speaker 1: Now this book. Is this the first time you've written
Speaker 1: a book?
Speaker 2: I should others I don't.
Speaker 3: No, Yeah, absolutely, it's finally you don't know that, and
Speaker 3: it absolutely is my first time writing a book. I've
Speaker 3: written a lot as an attorney, but this is, uh,
Speaker 3: you know, my first delve into the fiction genre, if
Speaker 3: you will. And you know, it's something that I conceived
Speaker 3: of in concept many many years ago, actually when I
Speaker 3: was still working for gene and you know, I did
Speaker 3: a little. I put it aside. Life happens, kids happen, marriage,
Speaker 3: marriage happens, and and big trials like Daniel Penny. But
Speaker 3: I never you know, I never walked away from it.
Speaker 3: And then in the last few years, I said, you
Speaker 3: know what, I really think I have something here. I
Speaker 3: had some very pre eminent authors and a couple of
Speaker 3: very prominent publishers who I knew through professional circles that
Speaker 3: kind of were willing to do me a favorite. So like,
Speaker 3: you take a look at this, be brutally honest. I
Speaker 3: have a day job. And you know, it was just resounding.
Speaker 3: Everyone you know, looked at it and said, this is
Speaker 3: this is fantastic. You got to finish this.
Speaker 1: I did, and it looks great. I saw the video
Speaker 1: and we'll discuss the book in a second, but you
Speaker 1: want talking about the very real possibility of making this
Speaker 1: great book Tuxedo Park into a movie. And somebody said
Speaker 1: to me, mayben you that that may be a part
Speaker 1: available for you said in this movie? Is that? And
Speaker 1: also it says, is that something you guys are really
Speaker 1: looking at?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, I'm serious on both counts, because the one
Speaker 3: thing I get from everybody who's gotten a dance copy
Speaker 3: of the book and read it, and I know you
Speaker 3: you looked over it and so forth, is that this
Speaker 3: is a cinematic story. This is like made for the
Speaker 3: big screen. And what the publishing company did, which has
Speaker 3: gotten kind of popular now because you can now do
Speaker 3: things a lot more cost efficiently in the world of
Speaker 3: AI as far as putting together with the book trailers
Speaker 3: which are like a movie trailer for a book. So
Speaker 3: they engaged a company and I know you saw the trailer.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, what a great trailer.
Speaker 2: It came out great, Tom.
Speaker 3: I'm like, this is incredible, you know so, And the
Speaker 3: good thing is between you and me while you and
Speaker 3: me and your audience a million people. I retain the
Speaker 3: movie rights in that contract, so you know, we we've
Speaker 3: had some very casual kind of conversations with people. It's
Speaker 3: very early the book, you know, first as to make
Speaker 3: it make its mark, and I think it will, but
Speaker 3: to your second point, I could never be part of
Speaker 3: a movie without trying to find a part for Sid Rosenberg.
Speaker 3: And I think I got one boy and Eddie he's
Speaker 3: a little bit of a villain.
Speaker 1: I can do that. I play a mobster in every
Speaker 1: movie I'm in.
Speaker 3: You do you play a mobster and all that? So
Speaker 3: this guy, you know, you wouldn't be playing the protagonist.
Speaker 3: But who's you know, the kind of imperfect hero of
Speaker 3: the book. But I got a character for you.
Speaker 1: I love that, and most heroes are imperfect. And the protagonist,
Speaker 1: I guess people read the book and say, maybe that's you.
Speaker 2: Thomas Kinneth.
Speaker 1: His name in the book is John Palmer, but he's
Speaker 1: a Manhattan a da I wonder where you got that from.
Speaker 1: So is it fair to assume that John Palmer the
Speaker 1: star of this book is Thomas Kinneff in print?
Speaker 3: Well, look, I think any You know what I've learned
Speaker 3: about writing from from speaking with some of the really
Speaker 3: the best people out there, is that, you know, good
Speaker 3: writers always put a little bit of their own experiences.
Speaker 3: You know, he's a term of lived experience. I hate
Speaker 3: that term, but you know, into their work because it
Speaker 3: creates the reality of it and you know, I think
Speaker 3: that this is a going to be a breakout hit.
Speaker 3: I think it's going to be a great novel. But
Speaker 3: you know, not everyone's going to love your work. And
Speaker 3: you gotta have thick skin and you got to be
Speaker 3: willing to accept criticism. But one thing I will not
Speaker 3: accept is someone telling me that, oh, yeah, this book
Speaker 3: isn't realistic, this isn't real because there's so much in
Speaker 3: it that I've taken from a bit for my personal life.
Speaker 3: My uncle built houses in Tuxedo Park. When I was
Speaker 3: a kid, my grandmother lived up there. I'd be slept
Speaker 3: up there every weekend. That's why I thought it would
Speaker 3: be a great place to set a you know, murder conspiracy,
Speaker 3: kidnapping conspiracy case, a very sort of u surreal place.
Speaker 3: But you know, the legal stuff that's in there, so
Speaker 3: much of that has been taken from you know what
Speaker 3: I've experienced in twenty five years prosecuting, defending in Manhattan,
Speaker 3: New York City and other places, being in the in
Speaker 3: the jag Hoorn, the military. There's touches of that in there.
Speaker 3: So the realist, the realism thing can't be criticized in
Speaker 3: my opinion.
Speaker 1: No, not, the realism but but what you've never done,
Speaker 1: though disrespecting Daniel Penny is at least I don't think
Speaker 1: you have is represent the president, well the president elect
Speaker 1: of the United States, in a criminal trial. So this
Speaker 1: tower through in the book, This guy Kent Dawson, who
Speaker 1: at least in the AI video looks every bit the
Speaker 1: part without giving away too much, this will turn out
Speaker 1: to be a criminal investigation for the president. Now, Joe Tacopino,
Speaker 1: def friends of both the Bars, one of my best friends.
Speaker 1: He represented President Trump twice. But I wasn't for murder,
Speaker 1: for kidnapping. So in terms of realism, is that realistic
Speaker 1: in a book like this?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, look, I mean no question that this is
Speaker 3: a work of fiction. You know, there were people who
Speaker 3: approached me and said, hey, why don't you do a
Speaker 3: book on the Daniel Penny case and this and that,
Speaker 3: and I said, yeah, I'm not really ready to do that.
Speaker 3: So there's a work of fiction. But the means and
Speaker 3: the methods I describe are very much anchored in what
Speaker 3: this would look like if something like this occurred. So,
Speaker 3: in other words, the plot is, you know, John Palmer
Speaker 3: is a young prosecutor who gets sort of drawn into
Speaker 3: an investigation of the kidnapping of his teenage girlfriend from
Speaker 3: you know, his teenage girlfriend from twenty years ago. And
Speaker 3: as he gets further into the investigation, it's it leads
Speaker 3: he starts discovering a theory, that evidence that leads back
Speaker 3: to the president of the elect of the United States
Speaker 3: as being the person who perpetrated or conspired to do
Speaker 3: this in order to get his pregnant mistress out of
Speaker 3: the way pregnancy. Yeah, and it's this race against time
Speaker 3: because it starts out he's just he's you know, put
Speaker 3: quick quote, he's he is just the nominee or is
Speaker 3: about to become the nomination.
Speaker 1: No, well, what you just told me is not only thrilling,
Speaker 1: but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
Speaker 2: Any of that.
Speaker 3: It's not out of the real possibility. And one of
Speaker 3: the things why I personally think that this book was
Speaker 3: kind of meant to be is I first conceived and
Speaker 3: write the book, but he conceive of the concept and
Speaker 3: wrote a bit about it, you know, before even Trump won,
Speaker 3: before anyone had ever you know, talked seriously about indicting
Speaker 3: a president or a former president or president to be
Speaker 3: and then you know, through the years, as I'm going
Speaker 3: back to this. These things are happening, and you know
Speaker 3: it's interesting. I mean the book I finished writing it
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago, but the editing process, finding
Speaker 3: an agent, the agent, shopping to a publisher, that takes
Speaker 3: years in of itself, believe it or not. And I
Speaker 3: just look at the things that happened in the last year,
Speaker 3: you know, tragically, you know, the Nancy gunthree case. You know,
Speaker 3: there's elements of of you know, that sort of thing
Speaker 3: in this book that the Eric Slowell you know, you
Speaker 3: know you have this is you know, philandering politician. So
Speaker 3: there's a lot of things. Again, work of fiction, no question,
Speaker 3: but there's a lot of things that themes in the
Speaker 3: book that are kind of like very of the moment
Speaker 3: as far as what's going on in reality or what
Speaker 3: has been going on in the public sphere political sphere
Speaker 3: over the last months and years. So in fact, there
Speaker 3: was some push to, you know, change the name of
Speaker 3: the book from Tuxedo Park to Indictment, because I would
Speaker 3: just jump off the page. Trump wasn't died in all that,
Speaker 3: And you know, I pushed back a little bit because
Speaker 3: the book personal meaning to me, and I said, lucky
Speaker 3: I'd really like to call it Tuxedo Park. I dedicated
Speaker 3: it to my late mother, and you know history there
Speaker 3: and ultimately I won that battle, was publisher.
Speaker 1: You won the battle Tuxedo Park. Behind every great candidate
Speaker 1: is a greater cover up by my dear friend, the
Speaker 1: amazing attorney Thomas. Can it be kind of just glossed over?
Speaker 1: You dedicated the book to your mother. I love your
Speaker 1: father in law, by the way, He's one of my
Speaker 1: favorite people.
Speaker 3: I love him, George. Yeah, he's the best. I'm sure
Speaker 3: he's listening right now because, as you know, he has
Speaker 3: like four different radios.
Speaker 1: I saw in him recently at Bobby Hartman's count tournament
Speaker 1: out of Long Island. He presented me with this beautiful
Speaker 1: picture of me, you and him and Andrew Giuliani.
Speaker 3: From the Penny Galley. Yes, I thought, yeah, I think
Speaker 3: it was the first night you guys met.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: And he's a wonderful guy, your father in law, George.
Speaker 1: But you did dedicate this book to your mom.
Speaker 3: What's that all about? The next one will be my
Speaker 3: father in law now, I mean, look, you know mom
Speaker 3: was bomb. My mother passed when I was, you know,
Speaker 3: young assistant DA working for Jeanine. It was it was
Speaker 3: way too early. I mean, I know, you know what
Speaker 3: you know, I know you're talking about, you know, your
Speaker 3: lead father all the time, so uh, you know, and
Speaker 3: I was basically, you know, for most of my life,
Speaker 3: I was raised by my mom. Uh you know, my
Speaker 3: dad died when I was eighteen, and even before that
Speaker 3: they had a you know, not a great marriage. So
Speaker 3: you know, Mom was everything, and she did uh you know,
Speaker 3: she did what she did with nothing. I mean, I
Speaker 3: don't know how she did, frankly, because I have you know,
Speaker 3: I'm blessed with a wonderful wife, and you know, we're
Speaker 3: both lawyers, and we we do okay financially, and it's
Speaker 3: still a struggle to raise kids. And and Mom didn't
Speaker 3: have any of those resources. But somehow she made it work.
Speaker 3: And you know, she gave me opportunities that she never
Speaker 3: had herself. And you know, but for that, I wouldn't
Speaker 3: be doing anything I'm doing. It certainly wouldn't be this
Speaker 3: you know, well known lawyer. I wouldn't be writing books.
Speaker 3: So I had it dedicated to her memory. And uh,
Speaker 3: like I said, I next next time, we'll get the
Speaker 3: in laws in there.
Speaker 1: Georgian and how can people buy Tuxedo Park today on Amazon?
Speaker 1: Is it available now?
Speaker 3: Not only is it available, but it's in pre sales
Speaker 3: right now. The official publishing date is August eighteenth, so
Speaker 3: it'll probably ship a couple of days before that. But
Speaker 3: if you go board order it now because pre sales
Speaker 3: are a big thing, you get free shipping and you
Speaker 3: get twenty five percent off because it's pre sales. So
Speaker 3: you can go to Amazon dot com Tuxedo Park Thomas Kinness.
Speaker 3: But we also have a website Tuxedo parkbook dot com.
Speaker 3: You can go on there. It'll link you right to
Speaker 3: Amazon or you know, Target or Warmot or Simon and
Speaker 3: Schusterbornes Nobile, wherever you want to buy it. Although Amazon
Speaker 3: I think is the best place because it helps your
Speaker 3: ratings and I think they have the best skills.
Speaker 1: I think you're right, you know last one, and this
Speaker 1: is gonna be at uncomfortable for you because you like
Speaker 1: both people. But I think you like one and you
Speaker 1: love the other one. I know you like President Trump,
Speaker 1: I know you do. But you love Janeine Piro, right,
Speaker 1: I mean you were her assistant and you know it
Speaker 1: to Daniel Penny trial. She was there all the time
Speaker 1: she celebrated with you guys on Stone Street after Daniel
Speaker 1: Penny was acquitted. She was there the whole way, and
Speaker 1: she's been there really the whole way most of your life.
Speaker 1: When the President came down pretty hard on her a
Speaker 1: couple of days ago, he said not once, but twice
Speaker 1: she choked and also said she folded like an umbrella.
Speaker 1: So you know that Jannine Pierro must have been very
Speaker 1: upset because like me, and she loves in adoors President Trump.
Speaker 2: When you heard that Trump said that about Pierro, what
Speaker 2: did you think?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't like hearing it because you know, of
Speaker 3: course I have the greatest admiration for President Trump. I
Speaker 3: don't know him personally like you do, but I think that,
Speaker 3: you know, the only reason we have a country right
Speaker 3: now is because of him.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I also from what I know of his personality, you know,
Speaker 3: he can be mercurial, but he a lot of times
Speaker 3: he says things and he doesn't really mean it, and
Speaker 3: he doesn't doesn't hold a grudge, so to speak.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing. You know, he means it at
Speaker 1: the time he means it, but he never holds He
Speaker 1: snaps back very very quickly doesn't hold the graduation. He
Speaker 1: also hammered Bobby Kennedy last week, and that's.
Speaker 3: Not forget right. And I'm hoping, you know, like you
Speaker 3: said exactly, that he snaps back, because I do. I
Speaker 3: have a very personal relationship with Janine, but that's not
Speaker 3: what's motivating me to say any of this, because it's
Speaker 3: just reality. He is blessed to have her in d C.
Speaker 3: She's turned that city around. There is no one, uh,
Speaker 3: you know, with all due respect to to Todd Blanch
Speaker 3: who you know, I've also known, and many other people,
Speaker 3: as far as I'm concerned, there is no one better
Speaker 3: in the entire Justice Department than Janine Pierro. And the
Speaker 3: thing that you know, you want to talk about selfless service.
Speaker 3: You know, if you offered me the position of, you know,
Speaker 3: US attorney for d C, I wow, you know, that's
Speaker 3: really something, you know, the district attorney, the US attorney,
Speaker 3: and the pay would be hard to get by on,
Speaker 3: but it would be something that I have to really
Speaker 3: really think about because it's such a prestigious thing. But
Speaker 3: if you're Janine Pierro and you've done what you've done,
Speaker 3: what she's done, she's one of the you know, first
Speaker 3: elected district attorneys in the country. She's was a New
Speaker 3: York State Supreme Court judge. She had this you know,
Speaker 3: television career, plenty of money, and you know that that
Speaker 3: came with her success, rightfully so. And at this stage
Speaker 3: of her life where she could just be sitting in
Speaker 3: front of a television camera on a set in Manhattan
Speaker 3: to go down to disrupt her life, to go to
Speaker 3: d C in the most hostile place, she could try
Speaker 3: to do that job. You know, she she's got she
Speaker 3: can't trust anyone down there. And I've had these conversations
Speaker 3: with her without revealing you know, I mean we all
Speaker 3: know this, of course, and you know it's just absolutely
Speaker 3: she did it selflessly. It's actually she you know, I
Speaker 3: know from conversation her entire salary goes to taking an
Speaker 3: apartment and you know, her home in d C, which
Speaker 3: she doesn't need in New Yorker, and her commuting clause,
Speaker 3: so she is basically working. You know, she's basically doing this,
Speaker 3: you know, as a volunteer almost at you know, for
Speaker 3: love of country. So you know, and the other thing
Speaker 3: I'll just add real quickly is, you know, prosecutors, the
Speaker 3: standard that a prosecutors use in evaluating cases not whether
Speaker 3: the person did it, it's whether we can prove this
Speaker 3: beyond a reasonable doubt. I mean, do you know how
Speaker 3: many instances I've had in my time as a prosecutor.
Speaker 3: All the other attorneys you named Idala so for the Tacopeda,
Speaker 3: they've all been prosecutors when we all started as young
Speaker 3: assistant district attorney's at one point in our career where
Speaker 3: I've had a case and I said, you know, I
Speaker 3: know this son of a bitch didn't I know it?
Speaker 3: But I can't prove it because I don't have this
Speaker 3: and I don't have that. And you're obligated. You're ethically obligated,
Speaker 3: you legally, you've obligated at that point to say, you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: it sucks, but I got to walk away from it,
Speaker 3: you know, And if that's what happened here, and it
Speaker 3: probably is, you know, Janine's hands were tied. So anyway,
Speaker 3: my point is I hate seeing it. I know Janine
Speaker 3: is a is a tough gal with skin and you
Speaker 3: know she can handle, you know, the criticism, But I
Speaker 3: hope it blows over, you know, for the good of everyone,
Speaker 3: for the country, really and certainly for the people in
Speaker 3: DCA because they need her.
Speaker 2: Me too. I love her too, love her, Deshbert Lee,
Speaker 2: Jeanine Piro.
Speaker 1: The book is Tuxedo Park, folks. Behind every great candidate
Speaker 1: is a greater cover up, and behind every great book
Speaker 1: is a great author.
Speaker 2: And he's my friend, The Amazing Attorney.
Speaker 1: Thomas Kenniff. Thomas, good luck. It looks great. I think
Speaker 1: the movie's going to be great too. You gotta want
Speaker 1: to hear again, Thomas, congratulations.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on. I hope everybody checks it out.
Speaker 1: Tuxedo Park.
Speaker 2: We will do that.
Speaker 1: Take care, Tom, Tom Kinip right there, the Amazing Attorney.
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