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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to the Surely You Can't Be

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Serious Podcast, discussing and debating the iconic and the forgotten

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of eighties and nineties pop.

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Speaker 2: Culture with your co hosts James D.

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Speaker 1: Graves and Jason Coliban.

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Speaker 3: All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Surely

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you Can't Be Serious Podcast. Please give it a ground

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of applause for my co host and friend of all ages,

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mister Jason Colvin.

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Speaker 2: How's our VideA and good to see it.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 2: We're so glad to this.

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Speaker 3: We are here today to talk again about Gladiator and Braveheart.

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Brave Heart. Yes, I'm not to start pointing at you.

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Speaker 2: Wait, I've got a question for you before we go

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any further. Okay, yes, do you like movies about gladiators?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Very good. Okay, so we left off we left off

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last time. We were talking about the composers. As far

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as composers go. We they're both great.

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Speaker 2: They're both great.

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Speaker 3: They're both great. But my but my film score is

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better than your film score.

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Speaker 2: I don't think so. I really don't think it really is. Okay,

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if you like bagpipes, then you can stick with.

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Speaker 3: The I do like bagpipes.

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Speaker 2: Crazy.

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Speaker 3: Anybody watching Braveheart who doesn't like bagpipes, it's probably not

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gonna like that.

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Speaker 2: I like James Horner.

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Speaker 3: I'm not a big bagpipes guy. Well, then I can

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see what you don't like the movie, because that's like

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the first thing that happens is the bagpipes start playing.

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I mean, I'm ready to kind of dive in.

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Speaker 2: I've got I've got a few things that I want

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to talk about as far as interesting tidbits before we

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dive into sort of final opinion.

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Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, I mean, let's let's do it. Let's just

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kind of do a film comparison. I think, you know,

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probably what we should do is make an attempt to

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say something nice about the film that we don't like.

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Speaker 2: Right, Let's do that.

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Speaker 3: Okay. So, so my nice thing to say is this

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film was pretty.

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Speaker 2: It was pretty.

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Speaker 3: Your Gladiator movie was pretty. That's the best you got, Okay. So,

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I mean, honestly, I like Marcus Aurelius by Richard Harris.

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I like Comedists by Joaquin Phoenix. I think they both

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did a fantastic job. I like Lucilla Connie Nielsen did

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a fantastic job with that part those supporting cast members

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killed it.

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Speaker 2: That's similar to what I'm going to say. Okay, I

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mean I really enjoyed the actress who plays Muran. They

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plucked her right out of college.

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Speaker 3: Basically, Catherine mccarmack had just finished up with drama school,

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had done one really low budget film, and then was

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cast in this.

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Speaker 2: She does a lot with her eyes and sort of

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she has that quiet grace. I can see why Mel

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Gibson sort of we talked about how he fell in

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love with her a little bit, right, So she does

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a great job.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 2: I think the actor who played Steven, the guy that

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you really like, he does a great job steal scenes,

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has great lines, is really funny. And then the guy

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who played Robert, the Bruce, I thought did a great

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job of being conflicted, right, I want to believe.

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Speaker 3: I want to believe, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You can tell it's just tearing him up inside. I

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think he did a fantastic all men betray I think

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for me the movie is compelling, right, the story is compelling.

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I'm interested in how the Scotts won their freedom. William

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Wallace is an interesting character. It's a great storage of

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courage and leadership.

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Speaker 3: You know, and people probably can't tell from our voices

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which one of us are which like, if they've seen

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our pictures out there, you are. You are the one

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that looks like you have more of the Scottish and

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Irish heritage, that's right than I do. I look, I

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look more Southern European and you look more Northern European.

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But you're You're finding favored with the Italian movie and

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I'm with the UK movie.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting. We did talk about that the other day.

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I definitely, I mean, I've read hair. If you haven't

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seen me, I look Irish Ish, you know, yeah, And

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you definitely look more Mediterranean Ish European from the clan

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of Maculvn. But uh yeah. So I think both films

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are skillfully made for me. The stories are compelling. I

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think they're filmed well. I think they look good on

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the screen.

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Speaker 3: I do have some problems with let's stop pretending to

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like movies that we don't really like and let's just

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get on. Let's get on with. Your movie is pretty good,

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Your movie is okay, okay.

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Speaker 2: Ish, Okay, I'm gonna I really, I really feel like

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you're way off based on this.

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Speaker 3: I feel like you're completely aspect. I mean really, when

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you told me that, I was just like, I cannot

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I cannot fathom that you like Gladiator better than Braveheart.

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It just doesn't. It doesn't. I don't even understand it. Okay,

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So let's let's do this. Let's just kind of bounce

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back and forth. Let's talk about let's just talk about first,

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let's talk about the main character. Okay, we'll talk about

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William Wallace. Then we can talk about Maximus. Okay, Maximus.

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The rest of us could Covinamus.

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Speaker 2: Maximus, Decimus, Meridius, yes, whatever, father to a murrid son.

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Speaker 3: Okay. So I don't want to I don't want to

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get into the personal lives of the actors. I mean

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we can, we can pokeholes all of that all day long,

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and can do that with any actors. But if you

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if we look at actually the performance here, I mean

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I believed everything that was happening with William Wallace. I mean,

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he his emotions, his humor, all of those things came

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through so clearly, and he was a character that I

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identified with. And then I was just like, yeah, I

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want to I want to be like that. I want

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to believe, right, Yeah, I mean that's that I felt

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the same way. I felt like Robert the Bruce. I

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felt like I was less of a man than this

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guy was and and wanted to be more like him.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, so I mean this is kind of

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the crux of my position. But I mean, Gladier is

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the story of Maximus. You have to like this guy

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for it to work right. And for me, He's loved

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by the Emperor Marcus Relius. Yeah, He's loved by his

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wife and family. He's loved and respected by his men.

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He is a servant leader, a loving father, a good husband.

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He is good at his job. He is the man

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that I aspire to be loved appreciated.

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Speaker 3: I'm over here shaking my head.

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Speaker 2: Literally, You're the only male I've ever met who doesn't

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love this character.

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Speaker 3: No, because to me, he's Poudy through the whole movie.

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Like this is all just I'm frustrated that I got

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asked to do something that I didn't want to do.

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You know, for me, I got asked to lead Rome,

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and then for me, I'm.

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Speaker 2: Because he wants to go home to his family.

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Speaker 3: Right, But but come on, man, I mean, and then

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once even once everything goes bad, now I refuse to fight,

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I throw this. He just seems powdy the whole movie.

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When I found out later on that Russell Crowe was

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getting really frustrated as they tried to make this movie

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with no script, and then he would walk off the

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sets the set, I was like, Yeah, that's the vibe

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I got from the character, like he's just irritated and

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unky all the time. I know, are way off base

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on this, so but but are you going to tell

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me that you didn't identify with William Walls?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So here's my problem with William Walls. It's not

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that I didn't identify with him. I am a Mel

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Gibson fan. The roots of my fanhood are based in

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lethal weapon.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so me too.

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Speaker 2: I mean I've seen a lot of I mean, I'm

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not gonna pretend like I haven't seen a lot of

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his movies. But he is pretty much Martin Riggs for

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me all the time. Okay, So when he goes to fight,

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when you know, when he's circling the English and he's

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going to go pick a fight, right right, I really

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expected him to do a three stooges, pokem in the eye,

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slap him in the face.

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Speaker 3: And but I mean he does. I mean, as far

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as ancient Scotland goes, he does that kind of you know,

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let's flash him our front and then moon him on

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our back, and.

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Speaker 2: I want to believe I want to like him. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And when I when I went to go see Gladiater,

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I was just like, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna buy

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into this movie.

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Speaker 2: But it was just huh you literally, you're the only

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man I know that doesn't love this movie.

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Speaker 3: I've never met somebody who thought that Gladiator was better

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than Brave Art that.

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Speaker 2: I okay, Well, well, I mean we're gonna find out hopefully, Yeah,

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if you are out there, I mean, because we are

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definitely on opposite side of this deal. Yah, Who's right

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and who's wrong?

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Speaker 3: So that's main character. Let's move on, Let's go to villain, right, Okay, Okay,

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so I've already said I loved Waquin Phoenix's performance in

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this right. There are times that I was just like, why,

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he seems like he's kind of doing a high school Shakespeare,

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But those moments were very brief, and overall the performance

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was really really solid. I think we mentioned it last time.

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He was incredibly nervous about this performance, but ended up

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getting the nod for the Best Supporting Actor. I didn't win,

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but we got the nomination. But he was he was

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having to be imbibed by Russell Crowe and Richard Harris

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to get him over the anxiety.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was still a young guy.

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, he's really yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean I really don't know what his age was

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when he filmed this.

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Speaker 3: I think is in the neighborhood at twenty six.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, and he's out there with Richard Harris.

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Yeah right, Oliver Reed, yep, Russell Crowe, who's the next Superstar.

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I really like the performance by him. I'm not necessarily

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a walking Phoenix fand but he does a good job.

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And his character is everything that Maximus is not. He

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wants power, he wants respect, he wants love, and he

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can't get it and he can't get it right.

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Speaker 3: And I also say this about him, you know, as

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far as villains go, most of time, most of the time,

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I would prefer to kind of understand where my villain

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is coming from. Like, like I like the idea of seeing, oh, hey,

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you know, he had a bad he had this bad

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experience and that's what's made him the man that he

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is right.

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Speaker 2: Now, just a bad guy.

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Speaker 3: Well with with him, he has this anticipation that suddenly

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gets soured. Are you ready to do your duty for room? Yes, father,

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you will not be emperor like really he was caught

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off guard, and so I can see how he's frustrated

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at the event and kind of turned the way that

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he does. He even appreciates his own shortcoming.

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Speaker 2: He wrote to me once.

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Speaker 5: Listing the forty virtues wisdom, justice, fortitude, telperence. As I

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read the list, I knew I had none of them.

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Speaker 3: Father, virtues, you wanted these things, but you didn't appreciate

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these other things that I do have. And I didn't

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have those things, And so he just felt unloved, you know.

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And as a dad, you always fear that you're not

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giving your kid the right up whatever the right upbringing is,

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whether it's love or discipline or whatever. Right. So I

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actually enjoyed that you could see that from the villain

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and Gladiator.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, so the villain from Brave Heart, Yeah, the

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King Edward Lunchanks, yes, right, yeah, good bad guy Darth

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vade or Esque. I mean he's yeah, he's smart, he's

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in charge. Yes, he is strategic and sort of outthinks

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him down down the line a couple of times, right,

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And I think he's doing bad things, but he's he's

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doing his job as a king and takes his job

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very serious, which for me, a good bad guy is

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somebody who believes what they're doing is right right. It's

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just in contrast to what you believe right right.

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Speaker 3: Well, he wasn't conniving in any way. He's evil through

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and through, Like there's you're not getting a oh, I

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can see how maybe he came to this path. No,

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you just get bad guy, bad guy, bad get bad

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guy evil, evil. But he sells it like somehow, and

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I think it goes to the chops of the actor

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in the age of the actor. He's selling something because

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he's a good actor. I mean, he's he is pure bad.

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But you're just still you're still like you believe it.

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Speaker 4: I just patched them before, I said to your wife,

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so little rules succeeded, thank you. And while this upstart

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wits my arrival, my forces would have arrived.

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Speaker 2: Well, and you have to be ruthless to protect your kingdom.

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I understand all that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so he does a good job, Yeah, fantastic job.

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Speaker 2: I didn't like that Wallace and him were never face

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to face. Okay, good guy, bad guy Mono Imano. You

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at least get that at the end of Gladiator.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and see honestly that that doesn't bother me as much.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 3: That was Another big problem with me for this movie

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is that Maximus's story seemed to only be about I'm

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gonna get revenge on commtists. There was no other motivation

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for what he was doing. It's just I'm gonna go

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get revenge on commerce.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well that's interesting because that's exactly my problem with

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Brave Heart. Mel Gibson. His wife gets killed, yes by

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Joe Deputy. Yeah, the Garrison right, who promptly exacts revenge

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on quickly and severely. Yes, And then all of a

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sudden he's like leading the freedom fighters.

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Speaker 3: There's more to the story. It's a bigger cause.

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Speaker 2: I mean kind of, but not really. He wasn't really

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interested in that initially. He wasn't Oh my gosh. Now,

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all he wanted to do is raise a family and

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live in peace.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So let's talk about the beginning of the movie

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real quick. Okay. He's a little kid, his father and

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brother narrowly escape murder, from Longshanks because they go to

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go to peace talks and they're late to the meeting, right, right,

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what happens to all of those other guys. They were

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there to talk about peace talks with England and the

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freedom of Scotland. Right from the beginning of the movie.

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That's what's going on, and that's what's is the inspiration

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for him as a child.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and he wants to go fight, fight, he wants

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to go fight. When he comes back home, yep, they

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invite him to go to the meeting, he's like, no, thanks,

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not interested.

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Speaker 3: Right, because he's been educated. He is changed from the

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juggernaut let's just drive this kamikaze into war, to a

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man who's grown to appreciate using his wits before he

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uses his sword. And so he has he has an education.

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I mean, that's what I love about it is you've

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got you've got an educated guy here. You're in the

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midst of old Scotland where you live in rock mud huts,

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and right, not for me, right, I mean, it's just

294
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but you have a guy who speaks Latin and French

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and who understands the mechanics of war because he's been

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traveling for the last twenty years with his uncle Argyle

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and learning all of these things, and his decision after

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all of that is it is better to have a quiet,

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simple life than to go into these exploits. And it's

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only once he's forced into the situation that.

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Speaker 2: He understand I understand. I like the simple revenge story

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of Gladiator. It's his soul pursuit. Right now. He does

303
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have the side deal, his duty to give run back

304
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to the people. That's not even it doesn't even come

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up it does.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like there's one scene or is he at

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the top of the stairs He's like, this is.

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Speaker 2: What I want.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, dude, you can't sell that three quarters into

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the movie now.

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Speaker 2: His no, his, I mean that's a side thing. He

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wants to kill convenists. Yeah, that's his thing. Yes, I'm

313
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here to kill commodists. Yes, And how do I do that.

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I got to be the best gladder in the world

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so I can stand right next to him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's a compelling story. Yeah, and that's what I appreciated

318
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about Gladder Brave.

319
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Speaker 3: Heck gets a little convoluted on it's a more interesting story.

320
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Speaker 2: Well, his wife and then and then he sleeps with

321
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the Queen of France.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so just satisfying, but I'm confusing. I kind of

323
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questioned the decision to have him sleep with her and

324
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watching with my ten year old, he was like, what

325
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is he doing? Like he was.

326
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Speaker 2: Outraged, But did you say, look at her? Do you

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see her?

328
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Speaker 3: Yes, I'm teaching my child to be a pig.

329
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Speaker 2: That's Sophie Marceau Son.

330
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Speaker 3: Okay, so, but I mean this is this is something

331
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that starts in a twelve eighty, so he comes back

332
00:16:15,639 --> 00:16:18,399
about thirteen hundred, and this is over in thirteen fourteen.

333
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,480
This is fourteen years. I mean, yes, he loved his

334
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original bride, but I mean where he's still a human man,

335
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,679
you know, Okay, and she's still a human woman who

336
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has a man who's not.

337
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Speaker 2: That part of the story was satisfying because you know,

338
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he gets a pregnant Yeah, and that's sticking it to

339
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the king.

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Speaker 3: You know, he's into the end and that's really the

341
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I mean, I get it.

342
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Speaker 2: I did. I didn't like, clearly Maximus, his son and

343
00:16:50,519 --> 00:16:54,440
wife were murdered unjustly. Yeah, later on he does share

344
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a kiss with Lucilla, his former lover.

345
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Speaker 3: Yeah, right, but.

346
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Speaker 2: Really Scott was very careful not to make that too sexual.

347
00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:03,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, Ka didn't. He didn't want it to be.

348
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Speaker 2: I stay on point, right, You are seeking revenge for

349
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your wife and child.

350
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Speaker 3: If only JJ Abrams had made that decision with the

351
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most recent Star Wars spoiler alert, spoiler alert, we've given

352
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,920
you no spoiler alerts, but we think you're smart enough

353
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,519
to have anticipated that movies that are going to be

354
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this old, we're gonna spoil when we're talking about but

355
00:17:25,519 --> 00:17:27,559
at this moment, about to talk about a movie that's

356
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still out in theaters. So if you have not seen

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the Rise of Skywalker, turn the volume down and wait

358
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for a minute or so and turn the volume back

359
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:41,319
up top. Yeah right, so just real quick, Rise of Skywalker.

360
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The kiss should never have happened. I just have to

361
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say that right now. The kiss at the end should

362
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never have happened. It doesn't make any sense.

363
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Speaker 2: Of the hour before and after. The kiss shouldn't have happened.

364
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Speaker 3: To agreed. I thought you liked the movie more than

365
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:57,559
I did, But I did.

366
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Speaker 2: That's only because I hated Last Jedi. Okay, we actually

367
00:18:00,839 --> 00:18:03,720
Star Wars fans, Yeah, before we get all the hate mail.

368
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Speaker 3: On that, Yeah no, no, no, no, I mean, obviously we're

369
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Star Wars fans, or we wouldn't be so passionate about

370
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,079
that's right, the messing of it up. And if you

371
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loved it, you loved it. There are a lot of

372
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people that I admire out there who just said I

373
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loved it, I loved all the action, and I didn't.

374
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But that's okay. We have difference of opinion. And I

375
00:18:18,839 --> 00:18:22,160
enjoyed debating on the qualities of movies obviously.

376
00:18:21,839 --> 00:18:23,519
Speaker 2: Right, because we love movies.

377
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,920
Speaker 3: Right. So anyway, back to our movie, Let's talk a

378
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,920
little bit just about the setup, just the introduction and

379
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,359
how things go on each of these because that I

380
00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,880
think is a big problem for me with Gladiator. All right,

381
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,799
so I'm going to talk about I'm just going to

382
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,440
do a quick bullet point. Here's the setup for.

383
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,440
Speaker 2: Okay, now wait a second, Yeah, what for those who

384
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,839
don't know you are a lawyer, your lawyer, You're about

385
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,319
to give me some of your lawyer juju right here.

386
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,799
I'm just a Joe blow movie guy.

387
00:18:55,039 --> 00:18:59,640
Speaker 3: Listen, I am not presenting evidence. Okay, I have got

388
00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:04,200
my wife. I shared this with you. My wife when

389
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,160
we're having an argument and all of a sudden, she

390
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,039
feels like she doesn't know how to respond to me.

391
00:19:08,079 --> 00:19:10,519
She's like, you're just using those lawyer tricks on me.

392
00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:15,759
And I'm like, if by tricks you mean logic and reason, yes,

393
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,079
but I had those before I ever went to law school.

394
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,519
But let's just let I'm really we're talking about opinions here,

395
00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:24,559
but I'm gonna I'm gonna try to give you why

396
00:19:24,599 --> 00:19:26,519
I feel the way that I feel. Okay, good, Okay.

397
00:19:26,519 --> 00:19:29,440
So the beginning of Braveheart, you've got that scene that

398
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,319
I talked about where the Scottish nobles are all murdered

399
00:19:32,599 --> 00:19:34,839
and he walks in and is face to face with

400
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,680
these bodies. Then you have you know, his father and

401
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,160
his brother are gonna go pick a fight, just like

402
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:43,880
he does later on in the movie, and it's not

403
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,680
about winning, it's about letting them know that they're there, right,

404
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,880
And you can see this important aspect in his upbringing

405
00:19:52,039 --> 00:19:54,640
of I know, I know you can fight.

406
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,839
Speaker 2: But it's on what that make us men?

407
00:19:57,559 --> 00:20:00,640
Speaker 3: Yes, So that's that's a huge deal to me, and

408
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,319
then that impacts how he feels about things later on.

409
00:20:03,599 --> 00:20:07,200
To have those inspirational characters. It's obviously a good dad.

410
00:20:07,759 --> 00:20:09,839
And then just before he leaves, he gets the thistle

411
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,480
by Murraan. It's setting up that love story early. It's

412
00:20:13,519 --> 00:20:17,000
his good education from Uncle Argyle. We see the marriage

413
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,559
of Prince Edward and Isabella, so we've got the setup

414
00:20:19,599 --> 00:20:22,920
of why she is longing for love. Later on in

415
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the movie as well, then we get our villain who

416
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,119
who establishes when the when the princess walks in when

417
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,000
the prince should have walked in, we get that kind

418
00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:36,039
of oh, you're gonna you're going to rule. Then let's

419
00:20:36,079 --> 00:20:37,799
see if you can handle what I'm about to say.

420
00:20:37,839 --> 00:20:41,480
We're going to reinstate the prema noctra doctor. And so

421
00:20:41,559 --> 00:20:44,640
William Wallace, after his twenty years of education, comes back.

422
00:20:44,759 --> 00:20:48,880
He knows Latin, he knows French, and he's obviously an

423
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educated man, but he just wants to be a dirt farmer.

424
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:53,640
Is a mud farmer?

425
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,400
Speaker 2: Yeah kind of like.

426
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, And I'm going to come back to that

427
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,079
a little bit when we talk about Gladiator and then

428
00:21:01,079 --> 00:21:03,759
he courts Mured and you get this beautiful love story.

429
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,640
You get the setup, and it's great. You have this

430
00:21:07,319 --> 00:21:10,680
escape in the rain and it's and they're they're totally

431
00:21:10,799 --> 00:21:13,000
jabbing at each other like am I supposed to be

432
00:21:13,039 --> 00:21:17,359
impressed and he then he says something in French to

433
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,440
her and she's like, you know, stand on your head

434
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,119
and he's like, ooh, my kilt might fly out. But

435
00:21:21,319 --> 00:21:24,000
that's the funny stuff. It's a funny porting. They're really

436
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,759
in love, and you get that story. And then Muran

437
00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:30,519
gets murdered and then he comes back into the village.

438
00:21:30,519 --> 00:21:32,480
You know, he's he had thought that she was safe

439
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,240
and was going to the place for them to meet,

440
00:21:35,039 --> 00:21:37,680
but it doesn't happen. And then you see him after

441
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,240
her murder. You see him riding back into the village.

442
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,960
And both my son and my wife were like, does

443
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,680
he know what's happened? And I was like yes, and

444
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,880
my wife's like, well you don't. There's no way you

445
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,640
can know from what's as I understand that this movie's

446
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,000
already three hours long, you just have to get it,

447
00:21:54,079 --> 00:21:56,319
and you're about to get it. And you see him

448
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,920
with cold steel eyes come in there and act revenge.

449
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,640
But that seems really cool. For an intelligent man. He

450
00:22:05,759 --> 00:22:08,440
knows that revenge isn't going to be the end of it.

451
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,960
I understand there will be there will be a reckoning,

452
00:22:11,279 --> 00:22:12,720
and so he has to he has.

453
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,759
Speaker 2: To not going to overlook what I'm about to do.

454
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,799
Speaker 3: Right, So that is the that's the setup for my movie,

455
00:22:19,079 --> 00:22:22,759
and I think the best setup that we've got. Now,

456
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,119
I want you to tell me what you didn't like

457
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:26,240
about that setup.

458
00:22:26,319 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 2: Okay, the romance that it works, Yeah, but they only

459
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,400
spend about five minutes together before he's ready to go

460
00:22:34,519 --> 00:22:35,839
kill everybody.

461
00:22:36,039 --> 00:22:39,839
Speaker 3: I mean, I understand the anger's she's all he ever

462
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:40,839
thought about.

463
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,079
Speaker 2: You know, and she's beautiful and I and it works

464
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,279
for me. That romance works for me. But I mean,

465
00:22:45,519 --> 00:22:48,680
one minute, hey, we're getting married in secret, you know,

466
00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:51,440
and again he's supposed to be in his early twenties.

467
00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:55,279
The next minute, let's go, We're going to take down England.

468
00:22:55,519 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 3: It's the next logical step.

469
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 2: It just seemed like the romance was a little it rushed.

470
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,200
The actress did such a good job, and I did

471
00:23:04,279 --> 00:23:07,519
buy it. I did buy the love story, right, But

472
00:23:07,599 --> 00:23:11,200
he exacted his revenge. He did it. I mean, he

473
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,880
he slipped the dude's throat, right.

474
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,160
Speaker 3: But the idea is it never would have happened in

475
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,839
the first place had England not been in Scotland doing

476
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,079
what it was doing. And that's why the rest of

477
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:26,400
the story is necessary.

478
00:23:26,519 --> 00:23:30,759
Speaker 2: Okay. Well, as a general idea, I think the movie

479
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:37,559
is a little bit long, and I think that beginning part, well,

480
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,119
is it necessary.

481
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 3: If you've gotten if you've got a somewhat complicated plot,

482
00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:43,960
it needs to be a little bit longer to be

483
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,880
fleshed out. Now you have a movie that's the exact

484
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,240
same length, and all it is is a revenge story.

485
00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 2: It's that the same length.

486
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:57,559
Speaker 3: It's shorter, oh but by ten minutes. Oh my gosh.

487
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,039
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's let's let's flip that back.

488
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,319
Speaker 3: To the Gladiator. Okay, so you fought in by the

489
00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:05,559
time that nothing happens, tell me about it.

490
00:24:05,599 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 2: Okay. So when the movie starts, you immediately see Maximus

491
00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:16,559
clearly has charisma. He's well respected, he's good at his job.

492
00:24:16,599 --> 00:24:23,319
He's leading this battle onto the field against the Germania barbarians. Right, yeah,

493
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,200
he is brave. Because the guy says, hey, the catapults

494
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,079
are too close. He's like, nope, the risk is acceptable.

495
00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:31,880
I'm going to be leading the charge. We got to

496
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:33,880
do it. And he leads the charge and has this

497
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,799
great victory. He meets with Marcus Relius, who is the

498
00:24:36,839 --> 00:24:39,359
emperor who tells him, Look, you're so good at what

499
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,759
you do, my son is not worthy. I'm giving it

500
00:24:42,799 --> 00:24:45,960
to you. I'm giving in Rome to you so you

501
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,039
can make sure that you get this back to the

502
00:24:48,039 --> 00:24:49,240
people where the power belongs.

503
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,519
Speaker 3: Well, don't forget his big speech to the guys in

504
00:24:51,519 --> 00:24:53,119
the middle of it, because that was before he was

505
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,359
going to give it was at the end of the battle.

506
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,160
They've had their battle. So don't forget Maximus's speech to

507
00:24:59,279 --> 00:24:59,799
is meant did you?

508
00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 2: Yes? Absolutely, yes.

509
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 3: Let you keep talking. I'm not gonna you did a

510
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,680
very good job of not interrupting my introduction. I'm I'll

511
00:25:06,759 --> 00:25:07,359
let you keep going.

512
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,279
Speaker 2: The one where he's like, what we do in life

513
00:25:09,319 --> 00:25:12,640
echoes an eternity, and if you find yourself with sun

514
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,680
on your face, don't be trouble because you're an elysium

515
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,599
and you're already dead. Right, stay with me, hold the line,

516
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:20,920
all this stuff.

517
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,519
Speaker 3: If you've seen the movie that came out afterward called Elysium,

518
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,119
that makes that line really fack.

519
00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:31,079
Speaker 2: No, I that speech to me works. I'm ready to

520
00:25:31,319 --> 00:25:33,720
stand and take a sword and wet my pants and

521
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,039
go do this thing. Yeah right, okay, so yeah, I

522
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:39,400
think it works. Great. I'm ready to ride horses with

523
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,960
this guy, and I'm ready to go to Elysium if

524
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,599
necessary when he gets this charge by Marcus Aurelius. He

525
00:25:45,799 --> 00:25:48,240
is the only one who knows what has happened.

526
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,279
Speaker 3: He's the only one who knows that Marcus.

527
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 2: Raelis once Marcusralis is murdered.

528
00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:55,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's the only one that knows that the power

529
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,720
was supposed to go to him and not communists, right

530
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,759
except commonists accept commonists, well, right, right, So the easy

531
00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:05,440
thing would be, I mean, what's the righteous thing to

532
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:06,839
do in that instance?

533
00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:09,799
Speaker 2: You know that he's been the emperor has been slain somehow,

534
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,880
I have the responsibility. He gave it to me, and

535
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,160
you killed him before we could tell anybody.

536
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,519
Speaker 3: About this, but you turned it down.

537
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but then it was taken from him. It

538
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,359
would be very easy. Look at what Quintus did. Quintus

539
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,319
look and saw, Okay, I can stick with my buddy Maximus,

540
00:26:28,319 --> 00:26:30,680
who is in big trouble, or I can stick with

541
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,759
the emperor now the heir apparent, and he takes the

542
00:26:33,799 --> 00:26:36,839
easy way out. Maximus could easily take the easy way out.

543
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,279
Take his hand, right, take my hand, I offered only

544
00:26:40,319 --> 00:26:44,680
once yep, yeah, I see, you're kind of the guy

545
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,359
in charge. Now, all right, what does Lucilla do basically

546
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:49,519
the same thing.

547
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 3: He's the She slaps him first, though.

548
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 2: Well, she makes it known that she doesn't approve of

549
00:26:55,279 --> 00:26:56,839
his choice to kill her father.

550
00:26:57,279 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 3: How does she know? You keep going?

551
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 2: I keep going anyway, Maximus has the courage to do

552
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:08,160
the right thing despite the extreme odds against him.

553
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,799
Speaker 3: Right, well, that's unquestionably true about both of these movies, right,

554
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,440
keep going because you got to get to you got

555
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,440
to get to the point of the driving force, which

556
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,400
is the revenge. Right. He's not going to get revenge

557
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,559
for the attempted execution, but go ahead and talk about that.

558
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 2: So, so at that point Maximus is captured, communist says, look,

559
00:27:26,759 --> 00:27:29,079
you get a chance to join me, you turn me down.

560
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,319
That's it. So Maximus says, hey, Quince's look at for

561
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,319
my family. Make sure you take care of my family.

562
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, you guy who's betraying me right now? Right?

563
00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, Quincess, his best buddy makes sense, says, your family

564
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,920
will meet you in the afterlife. Yeah what yeah, I

565
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,200
mean he flips like that. Yeah, So instantly we know

566
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,680
Maximus's family is big trouble. Right, Maximus is a big trouble.

567
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,599
They take him out to executing he asked for a

568
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:02,680
soldier's death. Yeah, and the three stooges are in charge,

569
00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:07,200
you know, and takes them out rides fifteen hundred miles

570
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,759
back to Spain. Can't get there fast enough, and his

571
00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:12,880
wife and child have been burned and crucified.

572
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, yes.

573
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,839
Speaker 2: That is his now one goal in life. Before I mean,

574
00:28:20,039 --> 00:28:24,200
he's briefly suicidal, I would say, he's captured by this

575
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,240
roaming guy who picks up gladators, which that is the

576
00:28:27,279 --> 00:28:28,279
major problem I have.

577
00:28:28,279 --> 00:28:31,799
Speaker 3: With It's a huge problem. But okay, so just so,

578
00:28:31,799 --> 00:28:34,200
but that gets us to that same point, right, Yeah,

579
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,759
we've got that basically, it's the same point in the movie. Right,

580
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,319
We've established this is the driving motivator for the remainder

581
00:28:41,359 --> 00:28:45,240
of the movie. Yes, the murder of his family, right,

582
00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:48,200
and say, like for William Wallace, it was the murder

583
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,079
of his wife wife, and then as an after effect,

584
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,160
it has to be getting England out of Scotland, Okay,

585
00:28:56,519 --> 00:28:58,759
because that was I mean, that was the cause, that

586
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,480
was the underlying.

587
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,519
Speaker 2: Both are very manly, very worthy causes.

588
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 3: Right. So Gladiator starts off and Even before the movie starts,

589
00:29:09,319 --> 00:29:13,400
you get this Yellow Dreams Works, and I was just like,

590
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,519
why is is this movie going to be in CPA Town?

591
00:29:16,559 --> 00:29:19,480
What is going on here? And so okay, yeah, sure

592
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,559
it was cool, but it prepares you for Hey, we're

593
00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:24,319
either going to be yellow or we're gonna be blue.

594
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:29,279
I was immediately distracted by Okay, it's blue, No, it's yellow.

595
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,240
Oh it's blue again? Yellow blue? What the heck is

596
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:33,599
going there?

597
00:29:33,599 --> 00:29:35,599
Speaker 2: They did play with the filters, and I was just like,

598
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:36,640
why are you doing this?

599
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 3: And so then you get this, You get this introduction

600
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,000
to the dog and you're like, oh, this is good.

601
00:29:43,039 --> 00:29:45,319
The dog's going to be involved. No not okay, the

602
00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:45,960
dog's not involved.

603
00:29:46,039 --> 00:29:47,799
Speaker 2: Oh and there's about the dog for one second.

604
00:29:47,799 --> 00:29:50,799
Speaker 3: Okay, but well there's a bird, but then the bird's

605
00:29:50,839 --> 00:29:52,359
not involved. What are we looking at here?

606
00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:57,119
Speaker 2: The dog good? Even the dog loves Maximus. How do

607
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,559
you win a dog's affection? You love the dog?

608
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,799
Speaker 3: Okay, so because everybody else loves him, I'm supposed to

609
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:05,440
love him. I don't like that you.

610
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,519
Speaker 2: Don't like Maximus. This movie doesn't work for you?

611
00:30:07,839 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 3: Well, no, I just want to understand. I want to

612
00:30:10,839 --> 00:30:13,480
have the movie give me the story that makes me

613
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,519
like Maximus. We're presented with him giving this speech to

614
00:30:17,559 --> 00:30:21,079
these guys, which I think is probably the worst motivational

615
00:30:21,119 --> 00:30:24,440
speech I've ever heard. Oh my gosh, hey, good news.

616
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,720
If you have the sun in your face, you're dead.

617
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,400
And if you think about where you want to be,

618
00:30:29,519 --> 00:30:31,799
and that's where you be. You know, except for those

619
00:30:31,799 --> 00:30:33,880
guys who are about to go die because obviously that's

620
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:34,480
not what they.

621
00:30:34,359 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: Want either, you'll be where you want to be and

622
00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:37,319
you'll be dead either way.

623
00:30:37,359 --> 00:30:40,759
Speaker 3: It's okay, rights, that's a great motivational speech.

624
00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:43,039
Speaker 2: You'll be out of this mud pit in Germany.

625
00:30:43,599 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 3: Right. So then it's the headless guys coming in. How

626
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,559
the crap did that guy not fall off the horse?

627
00:30:54,359 --> 00:30:56,519
I mean, not only did he not fall off the horse,

628
00:30:56,559 --> 00:30:59,079
but he made it back to camp with no head.

629
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,559
Speaker 2: They say, no, it's ridiculous.

630
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 3: And then the barbarians it's not ridiculous, it is dramatic.

631
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:13,119
It's stupid, okay, and hey, the good the good news

632
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,680
is that's like one of the one few funny lines

633
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,200
in this movie. As they said no, that one, I mean,

634
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,559
at least, I'm like, okay, I mean, it's ridiculous. But

635
00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:24,920
at least he's making it funny. And then you get

636
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:30,640
the bad motivational speech. Then the Germanians stand there and

637
00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:34,440
chant for five minutes while the Romans prepare with their

638
00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:37,880
tar and they're flaming arrows and all of this.

639
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: It's absurd. It is just absurd, dude, Yeah, you are

640
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:43,880
digging your own grave. I'm not.

641
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,039
Speaker 3: And then you get bad shaky camp in the battles,

642
00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:55,000
and then without I just he's not a moral man.

643
00:31:55,119 --> 00:31:57,880
Give me some backstory on why he's not a moral man.

644
00:31:58,039 --> 00:32:00,160
You know, he's not a moral man. You have everything

645
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,599
you need already, No, he's not even he's twenty years

646
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:08,119
late through the battle. Twenty years yeah, yeah, so he

647
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:09,599
shows up, Hey, have I missed the battle?

648
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 2: You missed the war?

649
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:11,079
Speaker 3: Yeah?

650
00:32:11,359 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 2: Right, right, you have everything you need. And then and

651
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:15,720
then he kills his dad.

652
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,079
Speaker 3: Right, and then Marcus Aurelius says he will accept my decision. Yeah.

653
00:32:19,119 --> 00:32:21,599
He really is not in touch with what commonist is

654
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,680
going to do. And the surgeon said he didn't suffer surgeons?

655
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,119
Really did they do surgery? Right there in the in

656
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,519
the tent with all of the candles burning there, you know,

657
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,799
in the very yellow tent, tent. That's double and tender

658
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,359
right there, yellow tant, yellow tent.

659
00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 2: Your way off base. You're way off base.

660
00:32:40,359 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 3: And then what happens Quincus is betraying and when when

661
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:48,519
Maximus asks for help, he's not only like, not only

662
00:32:48,519 --> 00:32:49,920
going to betray you, but I'm gonna give you the

663
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,000
middle finger. He does. That guy should have gotten it.

664
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,720
I mean, if I'm gonna hate a guy, it's that guy,

665
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,200
right right. And he doesn't get it. He's not through

666
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,079
the whole movie. Does he have any repercussions, and he

667
00:33:02,119 --> 00:33:05,440
should on both sides. But what does he say? He says,

668
00:33:05,839 --> 00:33:09,880
ride until dawn and then execute him, and then gives

669
00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:13,440
the what everyone seems to think is the greatest warrior

670
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,359
of the army to the three stooges, as you so

671
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,599
accurately pointed out.

672
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 2: And so Mo Larry, currently, get on out there, get

673
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:24,440
on your horse.

674
00:33:24,519 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, give me a soldier's death. How about no,

675
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:31,640
that would have been the end of that one.

676
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 2: And then he guys, they knew this. He was like

677
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:42,079
a celebrity. And so he's there, he's their commandian officer.

678
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,839
Speaker 3: Right okay, And so they put him in a position

679
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,039
where he can grab the blade of the sword and

680
00:33:47,119 --> 00:33:50,160
swing it like a bat and still have his fingers left.

681
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:52,079
Speaker 2: I could see.

682
00:33:52,119 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 3: I'm I'm like, I can see. Is this going to

683
00:33:54,519 --> 00:33:56,839
be a superhuman man? Is this what this is? Does

684
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:58,759
he have? Is he iron hands?

685
00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:02,759
Speaker 2: I can see where that might cost some trouble?

686
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 3: And then does he kill them all? Yes? Every single

687
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:07,279
one of them? Right?

688
00:34:07,799 --> 00:34:08,199
Speaker 2: Yes?

689
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 3: Yeah? And then later on the movie, comodist says, they

690
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,960
told me he is dead. Who the crap told you

691
00:34:15,039 --> 00:34:18,679
he was dead? Quintus, because he's the only guy who

692
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,159
could have said that, right. He was the guy that

693
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:24,599
sent those guys off. So Quintus, knowing those guys didn't

694
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:28,000
show back up, God, knowing what would have happened, didn't

695
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,599
say Jack Squatt. So when Thomas finds out later on, hey,

696
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:35,719
guess what, Maximus isn't actually dead, the first guy he

697
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,480
should be talking to is Quintus going, Hey, what the crap, dude.

698
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,159
Speaker 2: You're thinking too much. I do agree logically that somebody

699
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:46,559
would have missed Millarry and Curly Okay, yes, their commanding officer. Hey,

700
00:34:46,559 --> 00:34:49,760
where's Mullanyker? Okay, Hey wait a minute, weren't they supposed

701
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:50,719
to kill Maximus?

702
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,159
Speaker 3: Right? Where are those guys.

703
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,159
Speaker 2: Yes, I understand that, but you're thinking too much. We

704
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,079
need to get on with the story, okay.

705
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 3: So then the next the next scene is him writing

706
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,559
as hard as he can with no stopping, and somehow

707
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:06,519
he hasn't been home in two and a half years,

708
00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:09,159
three years, whatever he said, and somehow the guys who've

709
00:35:09,159 --> 00:35:10,639
never been to his house beat him there.

710
00:35:12,039 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 2: That's because I don't know why I did it, but

711
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,239
I don't know how they did it any But they

712
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,400
think he's dead, but they go ahead and crucify the

713
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:21,840
kid and the wife.

714
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 3: So why why would they do that? What would be

715
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,880
the point? The only reason to do that is if

716
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,199
they think he's alive, which obviously they don't.

717
00:35:29,599 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 2: No, that's the Emperor ordered them to take care well, Quintus, sure,

718
00:35:34,679 --> 00:35:35,480
kill him, kill him?

719
00:35:35,519 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 3: Get that? Yeah, yes, crucify them. That's a lot of

720
00:35:38,519 --> 00:35:42,519
extra work for nobody who you think is alive to see.

721
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,559
Speaker 2: Yes, and the sun squealed like a girl.

722
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 3: Yes, and the wife mowned like a wharp and so

723
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:55,920
and that again, that brings me to what you've just

724
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,400
talked about. You get a very short romance story with

725
00:35:59,199 --> 00:36:01,599
I mean, honest, it's like you're thirty minutes into the

726
00:36:01,599 --> 00:36:04,480
movie by the time this happens. But you get no

727
00:36:04,679 --> 00:36:08,840
romance story with Maximus and his wife and child. If

728
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,880
we had moments, if we had something more than a

729
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,440
description later on, see his son get trampled by horses.

730
00:36:14,679 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, is that enough? Yeah, that's enough.

731
00:36:17,079 --> 00:36:21,039
Speaker 3: Absolutely horrible, And I understand logically how we don't need

732
00:36:21,079 --> 00:36:23,920
to get a father is going to want to revenge

733
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,159
the murder of his family. It's a movie. I'm supposed

734
00:36:27,199 --> 00:36:28,239
to get that backstory.

735
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:35,039
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, Speaking of his wife and family. The

736
00:36:35,519 --> 00:36:39,440
actress who plays Maximus's wife, Yeah, she's a model. She's

737
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,199
actually Ridley Scott's wife. He married her in twenty ten.

738
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:44,559
She did White Squall with him.

739
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 3: White Squaw that was nineties, right six?

740
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:47,599
Speaker 5: Yeah?

741
00:36:47,679 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 3: Yeah? Have you seen that?

742
00:36:49,039 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 2: Yeah?

743
00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:51,159
Speaker 3: Was she a major part of that movie?

744
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:52,559
Speaker 2: Mmm? I can't remember.

745
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 3: Okay. So then Maximus shows up, sees his burning family,

746
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,679
and then tells be Wan Kenobe that he has no

747
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,320
reason to stay here anymore. Wait a minute, No, that's

748
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,639
a different movie. Isn't different Burning Family?

749
00:37:06,679 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 2: Sorry, there is a Star Wars connection in this movie.

750
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 6: Then he is picked up by the jawas I mean

751
00:37:16,039 --> 00:37:21,519
not the jawas a guy who's gathering gladiators out of nowhere.

752
00:37:21,559 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 3: Whose whose medicinal expertise is let the maggots clean the

753
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,360
wound and then I'm a stuff some sand in it.

754
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 2: They would clean it through the seat. Okay.

755
00:37:32,639 --> 00:37:37,039
Speaker 3: And as you've pointed out, what a gigantic what the

756
00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:41,320
crap moment is that where he's laying down exhausted at

757
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:46,400
the burning, crucified bodies of his family and then slave

758
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,400
traders come and steal him. I mean, that's what I

759
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,599
would do if I was a guy picking up slaves,

760
00:37:52,639 --> 00:37:56,280
as I'd go over to the Roman general's house, look

761
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:57,079
for some over there.

762
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 2: The guy living in Tuscany, So quick star Wars reference

763
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:09,000
for you, the guy Robert, the Bruce's dad. Yeah, the

764
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:12,519
guy who's kind of the wizard behind the Yeah, the leper, Yeah,

765
00:38:12,559 --> 00:38:17,360
the leper. His face looks just like the guy from

766
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,880
Star Wars who taps Luke Skywalker on the shoulder and

767
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:26,480
the canteena and says, I don't like you, right, Marris

768
00:38:26,519 --> 00:38:30,000
Man's buddy. I'm like, hey, those two guys are the

769
00:38:30,039 --> 00:38:30,480
same guy.

770
00:38:30,679 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not the same Guy's not the same anchor,

771
00:38:37,119 --> 00:38:40,599
So okay, So there, I mean, they're the they're the

772
00:38:40,639 --> 00:38:43,079
two beginnings. There's the setup for the story, and I'm

773
00:38:43,119 --> 00:38:46,400
already hopelessly lost. You're giving me blue and yellow filters.

774
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,800
You're making no sense at all with any of this stuff,

775
00:38:49,519 --> 00:38:51,960
and I'm not inspired to go fight with you.

776
00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:54,519
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, here's a couple of things I just want

777
00:38:54,519 --> 00:38:55,679
to throw in kind of in the middle of our

778
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,199
argument here. I mean, clearly we've drawn the lines in

779
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,400
the sand. But when really Scott as it did the

780
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,920
Roman Colosseum, people kind of beat up, beat up both

781
00:39:04,039 --> 00:39:07,599
movies right for being historically inaccurate. Brave Heart takes it

782
00:39:07,639 --> 00:39:11,440
on the chin because William Wallace, and you know, he's

783
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,360
a man, he's a historical character, King of England, He's

784
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,239
a historical character. Maximus is fictional, right, So when when

785
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,280
Ridley Scott went to the Room Coliseum, he said, he

786
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:22,159
looked at it and said.

787
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:22,559
Speaker 3: It's too small.

788
00:39:23,199 --> 00:39:30,280
Speaker 2: I need to make this jack this thing up right. Also, Maxim,

789
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,360
I thought this was really interesting. When Maximus meets Lucius

790
00:39:33,679 --> 00:39:39,000
right Lustilla's son through the bars, He's talking to Lucius,

791
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,559
and Lucius says, hey, are those horses on your chest?

792
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:42,039
Speaker 3: Right?

793
00:39:42,199 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 2: Yeah?

794
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 3: Yeah? In the in the movie, does it seem onto

795
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,440
you at all that they're going to let the nephew

796
00:39:47,559 --> 00:39:51,519
of Caesar within arms distance of the gladiator.

797
00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 2: I don't have a problem with that at all. So

798
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,360
he asked him about the horses on his armor. Yes,

799
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,280
and Maximus points and he says, this is our gento

800
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,679
and this is Scartar, right, okay, And I know we're

801
00:40:03,679 --> 00:40:04,159
talking about this.

802
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 3: Are you Italian speakers out there?

803
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,079
Speaker 2: That was probably a terrible pronunciation of your words.

804
00:40:09,159 --> 00:40:11,519
Speaker 3: No, that's not That's not where it was going. The

805
00:40:12,599 --> 00:40:13,679
translation is.

806
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 2: One horse's name is silver and the other's name is trigger.

807
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 3: Right. And for people who may not be familiar with

808
00:40:20,519 --> 00:40:22,960
the Lone Ranger and Roy Rodgers, those were the name

809
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:27,920
of their horses cowboys obviously that lived much later in life.

810
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,360
But it was a hey, Russell Crowe, Hey how about

811
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,960
we do this? And Ridley Scott said, yeah, go for it.

812
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: He's like, you don't think anybody knows He's like, no silvergger.

813
00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:39,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, except for people who spoke Italian and also were

814
00:40:39,679 --> 00:40:41,719
familiar with the Lone Ranger and Roy.

815
00:40:41,599 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 2: Rodgers and people who dive into movies for podcasts.

816
00:40:45,639 --> 00:40:49,079
Speaker 3: Correct, call me Roy.

817
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 2: That's right. One more thing I did want to mention

818
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,400
Oliver Reid, who plays Proximo. Yeah, he died on May

819
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,440
the second in nineteen ninety nine, which is in the

820
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:58,719
middle of filming Class, right.

821
00:40:58,639 --> 00:41:00,559
Speaker 3: I still had some vital scenes to record.

822
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and so the insurance company came to

823
00:41:03,639 --> 00:41:05,760
release Scott and said, listen, this is part of the

824
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,440
insurance deal. You can reshoot those scenes and we'll pay

825
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,760
for it. Right really, Scott says, no, that's okay, We'll

826
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,960
just make it work, right yep. So they changed the script.

827
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,440
They actually put a CGI mask on a stun double.

828
00:41:18,559 --> 00:41:22,719
The CGI mask is Oliver Reid at his house and

829
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,559
you can tell, I mean, you can see it.

830
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 3: Yes, See what's the line, are you in danger of

831
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:27,800
becoming a good man?

832
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:28,199
Speaker 2: Yes?

833
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,559
Speaker 3: And he just responds yeah, which is an easy if

834
00:41:31,559 --> 00:41:33,079
I'm going to do an Oliver read impression.

835
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 2: So anyway, he was dead by that point. They had

836
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:37,840
to film that scene. If you look at it closely,

837
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:39,119
it's clearly a CGI mask.

838
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 3: Yeah. The original storyline, Maximus fights the undefeated gladiator that

839
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,119
was supposed to be Proximum.

840
00:41:46,159 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 2: I think you talked about the accidental drip. Yeah, I

841
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,880
don't think that that's as good. No, I think the

842
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,280
fact that Oliver Reid's death caused them to write out proximum.

843
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:55,079
It made the story better.

844
00:41:55,159 --> 00:41:56,760
Speaker 3: It did make the story. It turns out to be

845
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:57,440
a good character.

846
00:41:57,599 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: He does.

847
00:41:58,079 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 3: He doesn't make it again. He doesn't make much sense

848
00:42:00,039 --> 00:42:02,639
in the movie because he's talking about these guys like

849
00:42:02,679 --> 00:42:05,000
they're all dead and useless, and then he's given them

850
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,000
inspirational speech.

851
00:42:06,119 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 2: Is about shadows and dust Maximus.

852
00:42:08,519 --> 00:42:13,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, when the crowd whin your freedom's right, you

853
00:42:13,639 --> 00:42:15,360
know I own you and I could give you your

854
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,239
freedom right now. But go ahead win that crowd and

855
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:19,000
then we'll talk about it.

856
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 2: Okay. So here's one more thing. I wanted to mention.

857
00:42:23,159 --> 00:42:26,280
The real live commtist, the actual historical figure, when he

858
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,320
would have these gladiator events. Yes, they would throw bread

859
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,360
into the crowd, right, which they show that in the movie.

860
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:31,679
Speaker 3: Right.

861
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,760
Speaker 2: He would also throw snakes, Yeah, which was like.

862
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,679
Speaker 3: What Yeah, he was he was a bad guy. There's

863
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,440
no question he was a bad guy. That that is

864
00:42:40,519 --> 00:42:42,880
historically accurate. I don't think that long Shanks was as

865
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,079
bad as they portrayed him in Brave Heart, but commedists,

866
00:42:46,199 --> 00:42:49,880
the real comedist was not a good man. Interestingly, he

867
00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:53,639
was killed by a gladiator. It wasn't out in the arena, though.

868
00:42:53,679 --> 00:42:55,119
Do you know this? Do you know how the story

869
00:42:55,159 --> 00:42:55,679
of his death?

870
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,079
Speaker 2: I know the guy's name. Okay, you know the guy's name.

871
00:42:59,119 --> 00:43:02,679
Speaker 3: I don't know his name now narcissistia Okay, so narcissist

872
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,800
was a gladiator, but comtists. He had a list of

873
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,079
people that he wanted dead. I'm thinking of Billy Madison

874
00:43:11,159 --> 00:43:15,719
right now and Steve with his lipstick on. But he

875
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,280
would make lists of people that needed to be killed

876
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,000
because he had dislike for them for one reason or another.

877
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,679
And one of the people that was a mistress of

878
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,320
his came across the list and saw her own name

879
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,239
on the list, and she was the one that was like, hey,

880
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,880
gladiator over here, let's see what we can do about this.

881
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,519
And he went and strangled him in his bath.

882
00:43:35,519 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 5: Though.

883
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 3: Wow, yeah I.

884
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:38,199
Speaker 2: Never heard that story. That's really cool.

885
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,199
Speaker 3: Yeah.

886
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 2: I did have one interesting fact about the Brave Farm.

887
00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 4: Good.

888
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 2: Okay, So the end scene, right, the disemballement scene, Yes,

889
00:43:48,159 --> 00:43:52,360
very famous, very dramatic, very moving scene, very moving scene,

890
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,119
and really it's the highlight of the movie the Prisoner,

891
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,079
which is to say, oh what.

892
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,519
Speaker 3: That when he cries freedom. That's that is certainly that

893
00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:23,800
moment for sure. Okay.

894
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 2: So when they actually we've talked a little bit about

895
00:44:27,079 --> 00:44:29,079
how people were leaving the movie and they were going

896
00:44:29,119 --> 00:44:31,159
to use all the tools and it was scary and

897
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:36,519
people walked out. So the actual William Wallace before he

898
00:44:36,559 --> 00:44:40,719
got there, right, so they castrated him in his jail

899
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,920
cell and drug him three miles and then he had

900
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:45,800
that to look forward to.

901
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 3: And they then then they did do the They drew

902
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:54,960
and quartered him and took his various body parts to north, like.

903
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 2: His head on London Bridge, right yep.

904
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,679
Speaker 3: On a spike in London Bridge. Ship. So it did

905
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,719
not have the effect that they intended.

906
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 2: I guess not.

907
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 3: There's I mean, these movies. We could go on and

908
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,559
on about these movies, the battle scenes which were from

909
00:45:11,559 --> 00:45:15,280
my perspective, much better in Brave Heart, much more realistic.

910
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 2: Okay, So I like Braveheart. The battle scenes were good.

911
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,679
I was interested, I was the story was compelling, the

912
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,760
romance was there. Everything works. It's just a little bit

913
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,000
long and a little bit convoluted for me, okay, okay,

914
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,840
and just me in general, I don't like big battle

915
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,840
scenes because it just kind of all smears together for me,

916
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,599
so like, I mean, I'm going to really hang myself here.

917
00:45:39,639 --> 00:45:41,440
But like the Fellowship of the King or you.

918
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,039
Speaker 3: Know, Fellowship of the Ring, The Ring, Yes, Return of

919
00:45:44,039 --> 00:45:44,360
the King.

920
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, those movies just a whole big miss the CGI battle.

921
00:45:48,679 --> 00:45:51,519
Speaker 3: Okay, So on that point, just to touch on that

922
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,000
with Brave Heart, there wasn't a great deal of CGI

923
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,400
to be had at that time. But I mean I

924
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,840
say that, I mean Jurassic Park was coming out of

925
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,760
the in this time period as well. Sure, so obviously

926
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,400
there's a lot of CGI that could have been done,

927
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,239
but they didn't do it. They did they did a

928
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,519
very limited amount of CGI, and to me that was huge,

929
00:46:09,559 --> 00:46:14,239
Like I can't detect it they used that looked realistic

930
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,559
except for that one scene where he's jumping into the

931
00:46:16,559 --> 00:46:23,760
water and you're like, is that a Barbie horse? The

932
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,800
CGI to me in Gladiator, I could see it, like

933
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,679
I couldn't always see it. They obviously did a bunch

934
00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:32,039
of stuff that I didn't.

935
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,639
Speaker 2: Notice, but they were little, but it was noticeable. Yeah,

936
00:46:34,639 --> 00:46:37,159
I mean when the tiger takes a swipe of that guy. Yeah,

937
00:46:37,159 --> 00:46:40,199
but I don't care because tigers are Tiger's in fighting

938
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:41,239
are interesting.

939
00:46:41,039 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 3: Right, but I mean the giant colisseum and all of

940
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,480
those things. It just didn't I was like, oh, here's

941
00:46:46,519 --> 00:46:50,800
a computer generated thing. And I am not against CGI.

942
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,639
I just don't want to know that it's there. I

943
00:46:53,679 --> 00:46:56,079
want it to be so good that I don't realize

944
00:46:56,079 --> 00:46:59,119
that it's there. Okay, And I realized it was there.

945
00:46:59,159 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 2: Well, just just kind of wrap up.

946
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 3: Yeah.

947
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,760
Speaker 2: I think both stories are good. They're both compelled. Obviously

948
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,480
they're good. They're both Best Picture winners, right, we talked

949
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:10,039
about that. Ninety five for Brave Heart, two thousand for Gladiator.

950
00:47:10,119 --> 00:47:14,400
These are well loved, well respected movies. I just find

951
00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:19,400
the Gladiator story for me, the character of Maximus is

952
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:23,800
somebody I identify with I aspire to be.

953
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,159
Speaker 3: Okay, so to me it is it's the opposite. I

954
00:47:27,199 --> 00:47:30,920
want some complication. I want to be surprised and intrigued.

955
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,880
With Gladiator, there wasn't anything in the movie that I

956
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,639
didn't see coming, Like, there were no surprises to me

957
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,239
at all. It was like, oh, here's that scene where

958
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,119
he's about to wipe out the guys that are supposed

959
00:47:43,119 --> 00:47:45,440
to execute him. I know that it's about to happen.

960
00:47:46,039 --> 00:47:49,760
With Brave Heart, I got surprised after surprise after surprise,

961
00:47:50,159 --> 00:47:54,039
the betrayal that happens, the tactical things that happened. It

962
00:47:54,159 --> 00:47:58,559
was not foretelling the movie to me. It was, oh, hey,

963
00:47:58,599 --> 00:48:01,920
I'm experiencing this as happening, and I'm living in the moment.

964
00:48:02,119 --> 00:48:03,119
Speaker 2: Okay, that's fair.

965
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,199
Speaker 3: Stayed ahead of me, That's that's I guess what I

966
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,800
was the short way to say. It's stayed ahead of me.

967
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 2: And that's fine because and I'm okay with that because

968
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,000
Gladiator is a straightforward revenge story. I did read online

969
00:48:14,079 --> 00:48:16,320
people are like, this is just a steven Sagall movie.

970
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,039
It's the same story of revenge. I don't care. The

971
00:48:20,079 --> 00:48:24,920
story is compelling, the setting's compelling, it's well made. I'm

972
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:25,960
on board. I don't care.

973
00:48:26,079 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 3: And we didn't really get to go into the soundtracks.

974
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,960
But obviously you love the Hans zimmercenttra absolutely, I don't.

975
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:37,440
I love the James Horner I mean you can. You

976
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,880
will walk away from Brave Heart and the tune will

977
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,760
be in your head. There's no tune on the Hans

978
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,480
Zimmer I mean there's there's. His style of music is

979
00:48:46,519 --> 00:48:48,039
not really one to give you a tune most of

980
00:48:48,079 --> 00:48:51,480
the time. But if I've got a hero. I want

981
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:52,360
the hero to have a theme.

982
00:48:53,199 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 2: Well, it is a little bit frustrating that, like Indiana

983
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,119
Jones has the Raiders March, I can whistle it right now, right,

984
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:01,079
but this is just just moves through.

985
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean the movies that we really love people

986
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,079
had themes. Even Marty had a theme.

987
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 2: But I don't care because the music in this movie

988
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,280
is so good. I got the soundtrack at home and

989
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:13,000
it's awesome.

990
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,119
Speaker 3: Yeah. Grit, I mean, yes, they were mud farmers, but

991
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,360
they were dirty and it was real dirt, like this

992
00:49:19,559 --> 00:49:22,559
was an a an effect of being in Scotland where

993
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:26,320
it rained nine days out of ten. They were actually muddy.

994
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,880
Everybody was so clean, like even the slaves were clean.

995
00:49:30,079 --> 00:49:33,519
And in Gladiator I didn't have that grit. I wanted

996
00:49:33,519 --> 00:49:36,440
grit that I didn't get. I wanted it to be dirtier,

997
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:38,320
and it was, like I said at the beginning, my

998
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,400
compliment was it was dusty, but it was not dirty.

999
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,360
It was a pretty picture. And if I'm talking about

1000
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,079
guys hacking each other to death in the Ring, I

1001
00:49:49,079 --> 00:49:52,880
don't want pretty picture. I want some grit and I

1002
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:57,079
didn't have it in Gladiator. Okay, and then last thing. No,

1003
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,000
two last things. First, last thing, and I've already said it.

1004
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,599
William Wallace had a cause and the cause was freedom.

1005
00:50:03,679 --> 00:50:06,639
It wasn't just a revenge story. That's a more compelling

1006
00:50:06,679 --> 00:50:10,360
plot line. You want simple revenge story. I want not

1007
00:50:10,639 --> 00:50:14,440
just a simple revenge story. Let's talk about freedom. His

1008
00:50:14,559 --> 00:50:17,639
speech to his troops, after you've been following him for

1009
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,960
a full hour and you see what he's done. You've

1010
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:22,960
gone through battles with him, you've gone through his loss,

1011
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,599
you've gone through all of that. That's a moving speech.

1012
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,320
And he takes it right out of Henry the Fifth.

1013
00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:32,199
I fight, and you may die.

1014
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,280
Speaker 5: Run and your love.

1015
00:50:35,639 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 3: At least a while.

1016
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 5: I'm dying in your beds many years from now. Would

1017
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:49,039
you be willing the trade all the day from this

1018
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,679
day to that for one chut, just one chunt. Don't

1019
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:57,360
come back here and tell all right, then they may

1020
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:09,880
take our life.

1021
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 3: No fact.

1022
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,039
Speaker 2: And it was cool A mel Gibson talks about how

1023
00:51:07,079 --> 00:51:10,199
every time he yelled, his horse would trot. Yeah, and

1024
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,480
that's why he's back and forth and moving around, and it.

1025
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:17,559
Speaker 3: Pumps that intensity up. It pumps that intensity up to

1026
00:51:17,599 --> 00:51:20,360
see and fighting with that horse and having to yell

1027
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:21,000
his line.

1028
00:51:21,079 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 2: It's cool, man, it's cool.

1029
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 3: It's all cool, Okay. And then finally, yeah, last thing.

1030
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,199
And I said this about the Rise of Skywalker. I've

1031
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:34,199
said it about other movies. Gladiator had no comedy.

1032
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 2: It didn't have any comedy.

1033
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 3: I can't have a movie with no comedy in it.

1034
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:45,840
I mean, even Schindler's List had funny moments. Yes, Braveheart

1035
00:51:46,199 --> 00:51:49,480
has a ton of funny moments that have to break

1036
00:51:49,559 --> 00:51:52,320
up that intensity of the fact that they're hacking each

1037
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,000
other to death. And by the way, I don't remember

1038
00:51:54,039 --> 00:51:56,800
if we mentioned this, the extras in this movie were

1039
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:00,920
the Irish Reserve Army and they had companies and they

1040
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:02,440
were local I mean, he's kind of like, you know,

1041
00:52:02,599 --> 00:52:05,079
local soccer teams. They had it in for each other

1042
00:52:05,119 --> 00:52:07,239
a little bit. There was a lot of competition going on,

1043
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,480
so the scenes were as realistic as they are because

1044
00:52:10,519 --> 00:52:12,880
those guys really trying, were trying to beat the crap

1045
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:13,480
out of each other.

1046
00:52:13,639 --> 00:52:15,320
Speaker 2: Right, I think that's cool too.

1047
00:52:15,519 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I gotta have Steven in there saying a lot.

1048
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:20,559
Speaker 5: Tells me he can get me out of this match,

1049
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,400
but he's pretty sure your.

1050
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm okay with Maximus being super pissed

1051
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:36,320
and working his way for one single cause it's super

1052
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,239
satisfying to me. Yeah when he sticks that knife and

1053
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,719
commence's throat at the end, Yeah, I'm like sweet anyway,

1054
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:45,400
all right, So that about doesn't.

1055
00:52:45,159 --> 00:52:48,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's it. I mean, we we've covered it. Yeah,

1056
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:50,559
we're going to convince you and you're not going to

1057
00:52:50,599 --> 00:52:54,880
convince me. But hopefully the folks out there will see.

1058
00:52:54,679 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 2: The flaws in your movie. Side with me, all right,

1059
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,760
Please wait in on this and social media. Yeah, hit

1060
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,800
us up on Facebook and Twitter, at Shirley Podcast, at

1061
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,159
Shirley Cup Podcast on both of them. You can find

1062
00:53:07,199 --> 00:53:11,239
us also on YouTube. We have the Surely you Can't

1063
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:12,760
Be serious YouTube channel.

1064
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 3: And I just would like to go ahead and give

1065
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,760
a shout out to our buddies over the Thirty Somethings podcast.

1066
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:23,679
We love them. They continue to they continue to give

1067
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,119
us a great podcast, and they continue to promote us

1068
00:53:27,199 --> 00:53:28,639
on their podcast, and we just.

1069
00:53:29,039 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 2: We love you guys. That's right, The Illinois Contingent super

1070
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,440
appreciate you guys. Yeah, we like you, Spaniard. We show

1071
00:53:34,559 --> 00:53:38,559
cheer for you, all right, signing off, all right, thanks

1072
00:53:38,679 --> 00:53:39,440
good CD.

1073
00:53:39,320 --> 00:54:02,679
Speaker 3: Good CT Jason. AllMusic, images and movie clips are used

1074
00:54:02,679 --> 00:54:05,880
for the purposes of commentary and education in conjunction with

1075
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,119
the fair Use agreement under the US copyright law.