Speaker 1: What is up, fellas Echo's I am a deliriously tired
Damn Valley coming at you with the ever sexual mister
more Jensen of NBA podcast, fame of Yahoo Sports, fame
of Forbes, Fayman of Only Fans Celebrity. We're here to
talk about I don't know if anyone's heard this moret,
but I might be bringing some news here. There are
four restricted free agents who still remained unsigned, and we
can see September coming. I know, shocking. I haven't heard
anything about it, so we figured that you and I
would be the first people on planet Earth who cover
the NBA to talk about it. I feel like that's
I feel like that's just a great idea. It was
pitched by you. It's it's just it's brilliant on.
Speaker 2: Our parts, I know, right. I mean, I will say this,
no one's really heard anything for a while now, so
it for some it might still be news. There.
Speaker 1: There's been like some kaminga like updates, but it feels
like a lot of the same recycled ones. The one
that oddly feels but we're gonna go into the one
by one, but the one that oddly feels like we
haven't heard a ton about it is Quentin Grimes towards.
Everyone expects the deal to get done, but there's no
There have not been concretely reported offers, at least not
on the same level as Cam Thomas. We know about
two for twenty eight or Kamingo, we know about two
for forty five for Giddy. We know they offered twenty
or more million dollars a year he wants thirty. Nothing
like that with Quentin Grimes, though, which I find interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed.
Speaker 1: So first, before we get started and shout out to
oh my god, I would butcher this chill Usha Palumba,
first time catching you guys, live, cheers, Thank you, happy,
We're glad you're here. But first and foremost, before we
dive into a topic no one else is talking about.
Just like we said, more, how the heck are you doing?
Speaker 2: I am. I'm doing very well, as those actually watching
us right now can see. My face is all red
because my son and I just returned from a trip
to Madrid where it's I'm not going to use fahrenheit
because you guys are just completely fucking up temperatures. I'm
going to use Celsia's where one actually boils one hundred
and it freezes at zero. That makes sense.
Speaker 1: I would just like to point out I have no
counter argument to what you just said.
Speaker 2: So we were down there in forty three degree the
weather celsius obviously, and that's why I look like a
freakin tomato right now. We were actually advised to not
leave our hotel because it was just that was the
type of heat weight down there. We had to because
my son is beginning to become a bit of a
basketball prospect. He was down there to work out for
two basketball academies and even got offers from both. Unfortunately,
we could make the finance and finances work, something that
I'm very very sad about my son even more so,
but it kind of cemented the fact that there's actually
some talent in the family, ones like, which is great.
Speaker 1: Finally, right, you've been waiting.
Speaker 2: I know me too, that's great. I love it. So
So yeah, we just came home from there and and
I'm well, outside of the disappointment of not being able
to make the finances work, we're doing very well. Hope
you guys are are doing well on your end as well.
Speaker 1: We're great over here. That's look, everyone needs to tune in,
so that more can send his child to schools, programs,
outer space, the whole nine. So you know, you go
tune in hit that like subscribe button. I'm glad to
hear that he did well though, that's always fun. He
did You should be proud. He should be proud. I'm
gonna be proud by extension.
Speaker 2: You know what, I'm actually gonna extend this because I'm
just gonna gush a little bit. Dan, hope you don't
mind about this. I'm actually gonna gush because there's a
little bit of a story here as well. So and
and people they are they're like Danes. Some Danes know
about this, and they they're they're calling it the the
Michael Jordan story because we woke up on the morning
of the first try out that he had at eight
am and he was like kind of looking at me
and said, I don't feel very well. And I thought, initially, oh,
he's probably nervous. That's that's that's mental food poisoning, actual
honest to god food point.
Speaker 1: He's a delivery guy from Utah.
Speaker 2: I would imagine, actually, you know what, I'm not gonna
I hope they're not a sponsor. We had pizza Papa
John's in Spain, so you know, m M, never again.
My son and I made an agreement never again, never again.
And we make it to the basketball court. We we
go there because like, look, that's the whole reason we're
down there. We're not going to cancel despite the food poisoning.
We enter the facilities and the air conditioning is not
on because I believe it couldn't be turned on until
a couple of days after we've conducted the tryout for
some reason. So there he is, just turned fourteen food
poisoning with a you know, in a gym thirty eight
degrees celsius. And I'm like, look, you don't have to
do this, like you're gonna throw up in the court.
He's like, no, no, I want to do this. Then
he starts working out with another player who's three years
his senior, and the court had a little bit of
layer of a dust on it because they hadn't been
used for a while. So they started slipping around and
I was looking at I was on the sideline. I'm
just thinking, oh my god, this this is not this
is not gonna go well. But the kid just he
gave me a look and then he like put his
hand down just to show me, no, no, don't don't
take me off the court. Let me just go through
this and for forty five fifty minutes. I want to say,
he just put all that aside and had a great workout.
I'm like, I'm always proud of my son always, but
that just reached a new level for me. I like,
I was just beaming of pride afterwards that he just
overcame all that, like in a matter of moments, he
just kind of said and he said to me afterwards,
basketball is the best healer. I kind of found my
rhythm because I was able to play like that's just
that's proud Papa shit right there. Dan and the academies
we went to couldn't have been more gracious and fantastic.
So it was a great experience all in.
Speaker 1: No good for him. That's goat stuff from him.
Speaker 2: That's my stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, shout out to him for the goat guys. Quick question,
jokis winning another title before he retires? Can you give
us a percentage?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll say yes. What percentage would you give it?
Speaker 2: Hmmm? I don't know why this number just randomly popped
into my head. I fifty six.
Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say, I was waiting for
sixty nine. I was convinced that.
Speaker 2: Way, Well I will we know where your mind is at.
Like you didn't even introduce me as like a a
onlyfan contributor for once, Like you left something on the
doorstep there, sir, Like.
Speaker 1: I said, deliriously tired, I'll go. You said fifty six.
That feels like a good number. I'll go sixty three.
It feels like more than half. But it's so winning
a title now is so tough. Like we've had seven
consecutive different champions, and the Nuggets people soon find them
find themselves in cap hell. So that's something we need
to consider as well.
Speaker 2: I wonder what the percentage would have been if they
hadn't made those changes this year, Like it wouldn't have
been fifty six for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, that's it.
Speaker 2: That's tough.
Speaker 1: I say, better than half even, And if it's not
gonna be with Denver, I think it'll end up being
somewhere else because he's that good. He could win the
title as the best player at like the age of
thirty four, thirty five or something totally degree. Let's talk
restricted free agents. What everyone's here for seven and a
half minutes later, Josh Giddy more, you want to take
us through the latest goings ons and your thoughts on
mister Josh Giddy, Well.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, my thoughts first and foremost. I think
the bulls right now are playing this very very wisely
in terms of just.
Speaker 1: Basically, did I hurt you to say that?
Speaker 2: No? No, no, no, no no. I'm always fair. I'm
always fair, I think right now there, Look, they are
trying to squeeze him. That's the right thing to do.
They learned from the Patrick Williams mistake and they don't
want to end up in that same situation. I think
that is a very good process like for them. Also,
I think they're recognizing if we overpay him significantly, like
if we cave and we give him forty million a year,
is he even going to be tradable on that contract? Like,
I think they're actually having those concerns and those conversations
behind closed stores where they're looking at like, how can
we actually give him a number that makes sense for
both sides where we can pivot off of him later
without having to relinquish assets. And if that's the thought process,
which I think it has to be at this point,
that's pretty smart for them and it's the right call.
So you know, Getty can stick with his demand of
thirty million a year. I think that's a preposterous number
for him. I think the bulls came. What was that
it was reported that they were interested in like twenty
a little over twenty a year somewhere along those lines.
That's such just such an easier contract to move, so
I look, it can't really go wrong. I think if
they stick with the twenty something million a year, like
twenty two million a year, let's just say that, then
he can decline it and just pick up the qualifying
offer and then he's unrestricted creagent next summer. Fine, because
losing him is frankly not that big of a deal
next year. And if he signs, then cool. You have
a guy who's tradeable on a contract that is yeah, movable.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I would most likely agree with all that.
I'm just we always see these situations where when sides blink,
it feels like both of them may be blink at
the same time. But you're never gonna see my point
being teams really squeezed, Like even with Isaaca Korro and
the Calves last year that took forever. He still ended
up getting over ten million dollars a year right around there, right,
different level of player. My guess is, if I had
to take the over under on twenty million dollars per
year for Giddy, I'm gonna take the over. But I
think the deal might end up being for four years,
not five, like maybe it's four for ninety six with
a player option at the end of it. So I
don't know if I feel great about that, But you're
under twenty five million a year right as the bulls there.
And look, if something goes right to where he wants
to opt out, I know you might be saying, well,
they didn't really get anything at the end of it.
But just given where they're at and the sentiment towards
Josh Giddy right now, you might almost be happy if
he's playing well enough to opt out at the end
of a four year, ninety six million dollar contract.
Speaker 2: Right yeah. And honestly, at this point, I think if
you're getting him for under twenty five that means that
you know you've actually won some land here in terms
of that agreement. Because the obvious thing is, oh I
ask Fredy we want twenty split down the middle of
twenty five, but like, if you get him for twenty
three to twenty four, we're also kind of proving a
point here going, look, archetype is not really NBA asking
twenty twenty five, Like No three, No D. Players aren't
really that No.
Speaker 1: Three. It's a little extreme at this point, is it not? Well?
Speaker 2: Okay, limited three no D? Is that better? Is that
more fair? Plenty of p for passing, lots of turnovers too.
It's a lot of c there. He's just not that dude, right,
And I think that was something we've discussed before that
if you want to tailor an entire team around him,
it's also important to understand the limitations that come with that.
And I do think the bulls are like, no, we
can't justify doing that, Like he can't be our best player.
There's just no way in hell that we can justify that.
And that's also sending a message that you're not going
to be paid like a Mex guy, just not at all.
Speaker 1: So how do you think that this ultimately winds up? Well,
I guess in terms of length, do you think this
ends up being like a three plus one? Do you
think that there's a chance it's a three minus one
and maybe they even get a team Like if you're
the Bulls and you go for for one hundred with
a team option at the end of it, is Josh
Giddy just saying, no, that he got almost a twenty
he got twenty five million years split down the middle, right,
that that might be the Bulls is I hesitate to
say ideal outcome, but it's got to be pretty close
to it at that point.
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, I mean that's probably where that's leaning. I
think that scenario is pretty realistic. So that he would
get what seventy five million guaranteed, that's not bad, right,
all things considered over.
Speaker 1: Three years, I'd take it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, I mean, given that, you know, you're not
really certain that he's going to duplicate what he did
in the second half of the year over the course
of a full season. Plus we've actually seen that movie before, right,
like Thunderthans were all like, oh, this is your first time.
Speaker 1: He got to the playoffs. No one guarded him. Became
a play Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2: Right exactly, So it if that's the play I wouldn't
be surprised if it's three plus one. Hell, I wouldn't
even be surprised if the Bulls were like, fine, you
want big money, then you're gonna get a two year deal,
and then the team option attached to that either like
a two plus one. It's I think there's so many
scenarios in play right now for those teams.
Speaker 1: Now we should do sort of like a not a
confidence meter, but what's the percentage chance that he signs
his qualifying offer, which for anyone listening watching who might
not know what that would do, low cap number next year, right,
but here's what that does. Josh Giddy has veto power
over any trade, and once he is traded, his bird
rights do not transfer. So this is like it's probably
more of a it's a disaster scenario, I think for
both team and player. But I would argue it's worse
for the team because you could still keep them and
then have his bird rights. We saw the Hornets do
that with Miles Bridges, but at the same time you
were actively looking to move off him. He gets to
choose where he wants to go, and like they might
wave their no trade calls for anyone just because they
want to be on a team that wants them at
the same time, if that team doesn't have cap space,
it gets really hard to keep them. Then you're gonna
go somewhere and get signed for the mid level. He's like,
I could see one of these four signing their qualifying offer.
I don't think it's gonna be him. I would probably
put it at if we were doing a percentage chance,
I feel like there's a five percent chance he signs
his offer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm probably a little higher, like, but it's not
anything noticeable. I'm I'm probably at like twenty percent. But
I hear you. I think that's a perfectly reasonable argument
for basically trying to avoid it. Again, it comes down
to how determined I think Josh Kitty himself is to
like be the main cog in that whole thing. And
if he has those aspirations fair enough, I think that
shows a significant lack of insight into who you are
as a basketball player. But then I think we can't
rule out that he's like, Okay, no, I want to
go somewhere where I can be the shit.
Speaker 1: Let's get to a couple of comments before we move on.
Hind could the Bulls trade him for Kaminga in Fury? Yes,
but base your compensation is just all over the place
with these two would be so difficult, I actually do.
That was the other report I think while you were
away that the Warriors have legitimate interest in Josh Giddy,
which I don't know that. I understand that, like the Okay,
the passing IQ is there, but he doesn't play like
a Warriors brand of basketball. Yeah, I mean, well, to
be honest, at this point, he's probably better floor spaser
than Kaminga.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably fair. But even so, like Jimmy Giddy,
Draymond Green, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Quinton Posts, you got you carrying a lot of the
floor space. Lead over there, Quinton Posts and Steph Curry.
This is interesting from Phil Brown. It's actually something I've
thought about. Says it's a little rough to invest in
Giddy and Kobe White as their backcourt of as our
back court in the future. I would agree with that,
But I've almost wondered does Kobe White's impending free agency
next summer or just going into the final year of
his deal give Josh Giddy any sort of leverage because
you know that Kobe White will have more suitors than
at Josha One. He's not going to be a restricted
free agent two he's better so or or do you
look at it as the Bulls are going to be
so committed to paying Kobe White that it actually dilutes
Josh Getty's leverage here because they're going to be more
focused on keeping him long term.
Speaker 2: Oh that's a good question, I think, because Kobe's going
to be unrestricted and the Bulls really don't have that
much say in it. You can't look at it at
it from that perspective, like you just don't know, Like
the Bulls can go into next offseason, assuming they keep
Kobe oll through this year, and they can say, oh,
we want to pay you forty five forty million a year,
whatever the number they come up with. But if Kobe
is like, no, you know what, this organization is utter trash.
I want to go somewhere else, then you have absolutely
nothing you can do. You have no power, You have
your power less. And that is such an interesting situation
to me. It's it's actually one of those situations that
I don't think GE's talked about quite enough when you
look at like the landscape out there, because his situation
is is like, Kobe is the type of player who
I think can actually come into a more established team
and elevate them significantly, like if they're a lower bottom
playoff team. He's the type dudes who can actually elevate
them up to like ye a fully flished one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, his offensive game, it just feels more malleable than Giddy's.
Like Giddy's clearly the better playmaker, but Kobe White can
do more away from the ball, and even just his
on ball shooting is I would trust it more like
Giddy can get to the floater. We know that. But
I so, yeah, I totally get what you're saying there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, so no, what do we think? What do
we think?
Speaker 1: I'll give you my official prediction. I think I already
gave it. I'm gonna go four years, ninety six million
dollars with a player option at the end of it.
That'll be my official prediction.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go three years seventy five with a additional
not players are a team option for the fourth year
for the same money. So four years, one hundred wow.
Speaker 1: So we're close. So it's basically you have a three
minus one, I have a three plus one, and there
within four million dollars of each other.
Speaker 2: But like I agree hashtag I hopefully don't get that
for the bull's sake. I hope they get him for.
Speaker 1: Less hy he has no leverage, but we just never
see team squeeze players to that extent. This next person,
I'm actually, I think most intrigued by this one, Quenton Grimes.
The Philadelphia seventy six Ers. There has just been I
don't know if you've seen numbers floated out. I've seen
right around the mid level or two million dollars, and
that's the type of the things I've heard around the
sixteen million dollar territory. But like there's not a lot
out there on the years, the like how much he
would be compensated. He's so fascinating to me because the
Sixers are so fucking confusing and it's not like we
treat this team as this really damaging wild card, and
they are because of Paul George embiid those contracts, but
they're also not barren of younger player types when you
look at Tyree Maxy, Jared McCain, they now have VJ.
Edgecomb and Quentin Grimes is somebody. But this is also
intriguing because, Okay, we get to say that, where does
Quenton Grimes fit into whatever context of the sixers you
believe is going to materialize because you either value what
he did on the ball for them last year towards
the end of the season, in which case, well, how
does that fit into? Never mind, like one, how does
that fit into a team that has Maxi Embiid and
George playing? But also how does that fit into a
team that also has Jared McCain tyress maxin vj Edgecomb
If you went all the way young does he want
to play? We saw him kind of br It was
more so in New York than Detroit. And I don't
think he was in Dallas even long enough for this
to come up. Like he bristled a little bit at
his offensive role. So is he willing to play the
three and D because he can play just in New
York is when he typified at the most, we saw
a little bit of it more in Dallas. He can
play the three and D role, does a lot of
stuff off ball and will defend his ass off Is
he willing to play that after he gets paid? Because
that player is still valuable. He's not wing sized at
six what six' four around, there but like that's still
someone who could guard the point of attack, guard some
guard toos and maybe some threes and just knock down.
Threes and we know now that he can create a
bit for, himself especially if you want to roll him
out against second, Units but is he willing to scale
down most of the? Time we just have no. Idea
and then how do you then mort weigh that against,
well does it really matter what he wants when there's
No Like i'm sort of, Wondering utah still has like
eighteen million dollars with The John collins trade exception. Left
and then If i'm The, Nets i'm kind of, like
why not just Renounce Cam. Thomas i'll just throw an
offer sheet At Quentin. Grimes, yeah because he's the one
who in, THEORY i think we'll have an easier time
scaling down or just being more scalable if we want
to use that. WORD i just don't know how interested
he is in. It so this is Why i'm fascinating on,
it because it's not just About in so many of these,
instances it feels Like Josh, Giddy Jonathan, commit Even Cam,
thomas it feels more about the, Player and in this
case it's a lot about the, player but it's also about,
well what Is.
Speaker 2: Philly no absolutely to your question about does he want
to scale? Down let me let me ask you, this
if you all of a sudden had more freedom in
your place of, business significantly more freedom to do what
you wanted to, do and you, realized, oh the results are,
great like there are actually something here WHERE i can,
GROW i can do. More would you want to put
that genie back in the? Bottle, honestly like for? Yourself do?
You BECAUSE i Think Quentin, grimes over the course of
twenty eight, GAMES i realized that's not like a huge
sample size proved enough to the point where you can, say,
look he deserves to shot, somewhere not as like the
primary guy on a, team but he deserves to have
a creation. Role whether that's like as a secondary guy
or a churchyard. Guy, cool but we can't just waste
his talent on him just catching and shooting the basketball
like there needs to be something. More this is a guy,
who over the course of those twenty eight, games averages
virtually twenty, two five and five while getting to the
free throw line five times a. Game like that is
that means there's some on balls juice. There that means
there is creation with.
Speaker 1: The sixers ninetieth percentile and self created shot making efficiency
there were ninety eight. Percentile that's.
Speaker 2: Insane that's really. Good, yeah and he proved. IT i
remember watching That houston game where what did he have
like forty six something along those, Lines.
Speaker 1: Yeah forty six something.
Speaker 2: Somewhere, Along, yeah, exactly and he was just it was
consistently his own, Creation like it wasn't him just being
set up and fed up easy, shots like he was
pulling from. Deep he was like shaking at baking, guys
like you could see there was something. There And i'm
not saying that he can sustain that role over the
course of eighty two games and five seasons or, whatever
but he does to serve more than just the three
and d. ROLL i think he agrees with. THAT i
think he like he's he smelled blood there at those
twenty eight. Games if, Anything, Dan i'm probably more inclined
That quentin is the guy to take the qualifying.
Speaker 1: Offer here's the. THING i agree with you that he
should be the guy that's looking most at, It BUT
i also kind of feel like maybe you can make
this case With kaminga except that situation that feels more
clarity where it's we know The warriors eventually want to
trade him and we will get to, HIM i promise.
Everybody but With Quentin, grimes doesn't it feel like The
bulls are invested In Josh? Giddy we know The nets
aren't invested in Cam. Thomas there's more range of outcomes
to what to, me to What Quentin grimes's role could
be In philly next year than maybe any of these other,
Guys and so that almost makes signing the qualifying offer
prohibitive because you don't know are they going to repress
their value by making you their seventh eighth man or
you're just you have to slide into the three AND
d role and maybe you're not fit for that and
you play. Poorly or are they going to put you
on ball a ton because of all these injuries or
absences that they wind up happening and then you don't
perform up to. Snub there's just so many different WAYS
i could see it playing. Out but IF i were,
HIM i think as of right, now he's shown the
highest ceiling of the. GROUP i, Mean kaminga clearly the upside.
There but IF i, was IF i were, him knowing
That i'm with a team that wants me that will
at least give him some level of serious, opportunity and
that there will be there will be chances because you
play on a team that Has joel And beat And
Paul george to where they are going to be games
that stars are, absent where you get to have those
nights where you're on the ball a bunch and you're
getting up a ton of shots and you're scoring boatloads of.
POINTS i would probably roll the dice IF i were,
him BUT i ultimately don't think he's going to, because
like we've talked about this, before who is the last
Not Miles bridges because that was the hole he missed
the season prior to the domestic violence felony that he
pleaded no contest to who's the last restricted free agency
to sign the qualifying offer because they had a. Choice
they want to bet on themselves and then it ends
up working out for. Them greg montrou is the CLOSEST i,
come and like he only got like three years and
like twenty million a pop or something like that and
didn't so, it which, again Quit grins might prefer, that but, like,
okay you're playing for three for sixty versus if you
could sign for four for seventy right, NOW i get,
like that's a huge. DIFFERENCE i don't IF i were, him,
THOUGH i probably sign the qualifying, Offer BUT i do
think that the team situation almost makes it prohibitive for.
Speaker 2: Him there's also this point of him being twenty five,
already so, LIKE i don't think he has all the
time in the world to like just you, know maybe
be the forgotten man In philly or test himself. Out
LIKE i think he needs to be looking for a
situation where he has a stable role in stable. Minutes
AND i wonder if that's part of why we haven't
heard a whole lot in regards to this. SITUATION i
wonder if he And Darryl moury are basically, saying, Look
i'm at an agent right now WHERE i need some stable.
MINUTES i fully understand you need to play some of
the younger guys because you just DRAFTED. Vj you Have
jared McCain who played what thirty games or something along
those lines last. Year, like you need to have a
lot of guys around, You so let's see if we
can figure something. Out maybe we sign a deal that
makes me significantly tradable over the course of the. SEASON
i just think he needs to find a, place be
that In philly or elsewhere where he can be allowed
to spread his, wings so to.
Speaker 1: Speak so what's your position for how this winds?
Speaker 2: Up? Yeah, Yeah SO i think if he signs it's
gonna be a very short term. DEAL i would be
shocked if it's a long term. Thing and SO i
HONESTLY i think he's the guy who picks up the qualifying.
OFFER i think he needs probably more likely that he
picks that up if they can't find an. Agreement, Otherwise
i'm gonna say two years thirty five with a player
option on year. Three, well is that just the same
seventeen and a? Half what is that fifty? Two is
that fifty two and a? Half thirty five times two
is thirty?
Speaker 1: Five all? Right So i'll go four years sixty seven,
million AND i think there'll be a.
Speaker 2: How much, sorry four years four.
Speaker 1: And sixty seven so like over slightly over the. MIDLEVEL
i just don't think he has the. Leverage and like you,
said he's twenty, five he's had some injury stuff in his. Rear. View,
Two i'm gonna go four years sixty seven With i'll
give him a player option at the end of, it
BUT i COULD i could see it being just straight
like four for seventy type or maybe there's even a
team option that takes.
Speaker 2: Him through most of like his his. Prime that's. Interesting
so what you're saying basically is he wants to make
sure that he's secure that you think he leans, security.
Speaker 1: Right AND i don't know how much more he could
get out of The, sixers just because they're probably trying
to see if they can still game looking at the
mini mid level or where they're going to end up
with their their.
Speaker 2: Cap so do we agree though that that would be
that could be not would be could be one of
the best deals in the.
Speaker 1: LEAGUE i THINK i think it certainly could. BE I
i just still have those questions about how much of
an impact does he have when he's not that feet
more of.
Speaker 2: A featured, guy, Right, yeah that's.
Speaker 1: Fair let's get some questions. More can you read that?
Speaker 2: One? Well that is From dan Fa, valley who needs
to talk About Reed. Shepherd, surprise. Surprise.
Speaker 1: YEAH i THINK i think he's worth the. Max they
should just give him an. Extension now it's a couple
of years, early.
Speaker 2: But, Yeah, yeah let's let's completely ignore that he's not
even extension. Eligible, yeah love.
Speaker 1: It let's move on to someone who can sign a
new contract right, now mister Cam. Thomas the only Thing
i've kind of seen two years and twenty eight million
dollars from the, nets which, is by the, way that's
not even mid level, money right, Right so where where
are you at with?
Speaker 2: This i'm weirded out by this, situation honestly because. No
but but guess here's here's the. THING i know you
AND i have had this discussion. Before the whole we
are deprioritizing. Offense we need like defensive versatility and all this.
Cool you still needs to put the ball in the,
basket like that is still a requirement to win, games
and this dude just does that at a very high. Level,
like are we sure that just because he fits that you,
know the six' four shooting, guard mold that he's automatically a.
SIX man i feel that's sort of like a lacy
narrative that's developed where, if oh you have to be
like a prototypical six', five or, whatever, we're, like, yeah
really really we're doing this because he's a six to.
Four shooting guard then we're just automatically pitcheonholding him into
like a six man role despite the fact that his
offensive explosivity. Is extremely good it's it's such a weird.
Situation for me and if they don't value him. To
that extent here we go with the qualifying off for, Conversation,
again there.
Speaker 1: Well he's the guy because if you're going for two
years and, twenty eight million IF if the nets just
won't move, off, of that, right oh yeah that's not
like why not just play out your qualifying offer and
Then they'll be it's not you don't need cap space
next year. To beat that you could go after like
if so the full four year mid LEVEL next year
i think would be, for three years it's sixty five
million about that's like way better than the deal you'd be,
getting right now so, or excuse me it'd be worth
forty seven point five million or sixty four point nine
million if, It's four years, so that's like let's just
say he's playing for the right to get three for
forty eight or four, And sixty five like four and
sixty five is that's a lot. More guaranteed money so
he's THE guy that i LOOK at and i agree
with a lot of. What you said there needs. TO
be more i think he's shown that he can score
from a bunch of, different levels now like even maybe
trusting his three ball a. Little, bit more yeah the
defense is still not great and the passing is, just
it's improved but it's not improved enough to where you
think he can drive. Offense for others and like His
Rebuke to zach lowe saying, that, his, first second third
and eighth option was scoring or, whatever it was he
basically came, out and said if you remove everybody on the,
nets who passed he was the second best passer. On
the team, and that's like what are? You proving there
And so, if i'm him can you be more of
a playmaker or can you make more of an? Impact
on defense i'm probably signing. My qualifying offer this is, all,
TO say though i kind of understand where their nets,
are COMING from because i think that they could, Like,
having him yes put the ball, in the bucket but
look at who. They just drafted When You, have ben
serf When You, have nolan treiori When You, have yegor
demon When You, have danny wolf who's like a center
who thinks that. He's, a wing basically there's just you
have other GUYS that need I Don't think danny wolf
needs to be, one of them. TO be clear i
think it's More About yaeg Or demon And nolan trey
or when he's looking at. Having the BALL but like
i understand why they're playing hardball HERE and someone i
think actually someone's probably bring it up in, The, chat
now yeah bring up, the, salary, floor Like yeah the
nets need, to hit That And signing cam thomas would
be a way. To do that they can also, just
do shit like for some reason the Heat gave Them
heyward high smith with a. SECOND round pick i don't
care that. He was injured that was a fantastic Trade.
For the nets it's like they could. Find a way
i'd Like the salary capflorm'm just. Not worried about they'll
find a way to spend the money if. He leads
leaves so this is kind of a situation where you
can make the Case that the bulls should find a
Middle Ground. With josh giddy you. We just did you
should absolutely make the Case that the sixers should find
Common Ground. With quentin grimes We'll Get to Jonathan Aminga.
WITH cam Thomas i If, i'm, THE nets like i
don't need, if he leaves. SO be, it i like
if there's a better opportunity on the trade market to,
take on salary some team is coming with you, AND
offering something i would probably renounce him and not. Worry
about it it's fine to carry his rights right now while.
NOTHING'S going on i understand why they're holding FIRM now
if I, were the nets just to have that if
he was willing to sign, an inflated deal like to
like a, two minus one so a one year deal
with a team option, on year two two years and,
forty five million just have that trade chip rather than
carrying cap space into the season and it's it's functionally,
an expiring contract then. Things get interesting he'd be, rolling,
the DICE though because i. ACTUALLY have not i already
remember it is the two year deal is in a
team option, on year two two For twenty eight has
it been reported as, a team option because then that.
Would change, things But Like If, i'm cam thomas even
if they're guaranteeing me, twenty eight million if you offered
me two, FOR forty five i would absolutely roll the Dice,
on making yeah let me make twenty two and a half,
million next year and maybe there's a chance another team
picks up THAT option if i get Moved or the
nets need me. As TRADABLE salary so i don't understand
Necessarily why the nets haven't, gone that route but this
sort OF feels LIKE i unders i do also understand
why they're kind of acting haphazardly in this sport or differently. In, this,
situation yeah no.
Speaker 2: That, makes Sense.
Speaker 1: Look with cam thomas signed a, team FRIENDLY deal if
mpj Shows Him an, Andrew, Tait video look, i'm Not
misogynistic but i'm about to say something. That's incredibly, MISOGYNISTIC
my God i don't denver. Wins that, trade by defall
we didn't Factor In the galaxy braining podcast clips nearly.
Evaluating the. Trade my God shout out phil brown excellent comment.
Speaker 2: That that was. A good, one, I yeah look i
understand that you'll also have to invest in all of
the rookies, that you Drafted and that i'm putting aside
My feelings about brooklyn's. FIRST round draft i.
Speaker 1: Was not enthused Give Me your drake powell. Thoughts, right
now go?
Speaker 2: Uh, super athletic. Okay, FAIR enough look, i GET it
but i also think there's somewhat of a KNOWN commodity
in cam and if they're willing to pivot of that
and just lean into the uncertainty, of it all and
like if they still want to play, The, draft, game,
Okay fine sure like it's we've seen teams do that.
A million times that's not necessarily. A bad STRATEGY i
would i would probably have a hard time seeing a
guy who averaged twenty, four like that unlike a guy
who gets to the line who takes a, lot of
threes like. Just get renounced that would just be a
new low in terms of like not valuing score. Since
today's GAME and then i don't know who would be
standing in line to like just, get him immediately but
he should have so many soothers it's. Not even funny.
Speaker 1: So this is actually. A great question i. DIDN'T even
read i was only. READING a cursory i thought they
were mentioning the nets have to get to The salary
For But, FROM abdullah farhan i have a. Type of
question if the nets don't hit ninety percent of, the
salary cap do you get FINED by the? Nba or
punished why not just go ahead and with it being
a lapula of the luxury tax. Or the floor, SO
in passion i would argue that teams were too focused
on hitting the salary floor because the money just went, To,
the player like why not give your? PLAYERS a bonus
I think the thunder. Basically did that one years they
were below, the salary floor the players got to pay out. For, the,
difference now however you forfeit your luxury tax payouts like
from the rest. Of the league and so unless you
THINK that and i think then you have the cap
hit will also be on your books that you can't even.
Use that space maybe you could still. Use that space
i'm not have, to confirm that but unless you think
you're gonna make more money by not paying out that
money to players than by forfeiting the luxury tax share that,
you get paid. That that's what that's how they're forcing
teams to hit. The SALARY floor and i think it's.
Speaker 2: A good thing this is a good thing because it
means more. Money TO players so i love this.
Speaker 1: AND it was i will say like the other it
means more money to MORE players because i didn't hate
the other way to, where, it, was well yeah you're
just paying out all these Guys that are but also
it does force you to go out and make other and.
Sometimes it does maybe it's not, Certainly more players it
just forces you to make more moves because if you're
taking on a bad contract, from another team doesn't he hit?
The salary floor you haven't spread that, wealth, around really,
so but yeah so they need to hit. The salary
floor your prediction, for, THIS more.
Speaker 2: Well i Think i'm actually i'm dicking what you said
about like the, two forty right like twenty, million a
year and that's a, trade, ship unfortunately right it couldn't
be the player option because then it's a one plus
one and that means technically he would have a. No
trade CLAUSE so do i are you sure that if
he signs a one plus one but the last one is,
a team option he doesn't have a a. No? Trade
clause right there's something about the plus one plus ones on.
Speaker 1: The TEAM options that i don't think it'll that won't
kick in a. NO trade clause. I.
Speaker 2: Don't think well it's only. On, player, Options yeah okay
so like he can look at, it, AND say okay
i get twenty, million this YEAR and then i hit you.
Speaker 1: Would have to get maybe you have to get him.
To waive it so maybe it's a, Situation LIKE that
but i Think that's the nets aren't giving you an
inflated two year deal player option team option unless you
waive That right to.
Speaker 2: That, makes, SENSE yeah WELL i mean i think that
MAKES sense because i don't think this is a team
that is so in the midst. Of rebuilding process having
a trade ship that they can actually move off of
has to be something. THAT they prioritize I don't think
michael portis hunire ass a significant amount. OF trade value
i do think he's kind of crucial for the development
of their guards because they, need to, have you know a.
PLAY finishing target i wrote About this over forbes.
Speaker 1: The OTHER day but i do worry that he goes
full just fuck boy and is looking for people. All
THE time and I don't Think I think jordy fernandez
is too smart to. Let That happen so i'm, being,
hyperbolic here.
Speaker 2: No BUT still but i do wonder have We Forgotten
that cam thomas can also, be that asset someone who
just receives the balls and, scored.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah but yeah but he's not a spot of
finishing and includes a. Lot, of dribbling.
Speaker 2: Yeah it. Does that's fair. That, IS fair no i
think like a two year deal with one being. A
team option but the number, is so tricky right because
you're saying, TO forty.
Speaker 1: Octually i think, To, forty four like? What is that how?
Speaker 2: Does that hurt oh you said? To forty five that?
Speaker 1: Was my, thing is like because then you're almost getting
to the twenty. Eight million number he. Has the chance
It's Like the bruce brown basically that he Got from
the pacers. That one YEAR i'm just i wonder, Why,
they're not like do you have a reason for why
They wouldn't want is it because they Want to keep
like that's too big of a? Number to move like
trading fourteen million is just so. Much functionally easier i'm
just curious as to why they haven't given.
Speaker 2: That, More, consideration, right well again if his archetype of
player is not particularly ATTRACTIVE, around THE nba then i
understand paying him twenty million a. Year is rough we
just had This Conversation with josh, gidey as Well like
the bulls should hope that he's tradable during the course.
Of his contract so if you Overpay four cam thomas
and teams are, like wary, about you know an. Undersized
SHOOTING guard then i Understand why the nets are hesitant
to give him. A big deal but at, the same
time the talent is. Just, so overwhelming uh if you
said two, Years forty five i'm just gonna say two
years forty with a team option.
Speaker 1: In year two I'm just gonna. I'm gonna predict i'm
not SURE how much i. Actually believe this he's gonna sign.
His qualifying offer this feels like the guy who might
have the self confidence and can he talk himself into
Believing that the nets are still gonna give him opportunity
so he'll be able to. Prove his value or does
he maybe Think that the nets won't care as much
about trading him to a team without getting a. Ton
of return so if he's making, his, qualifying offer yeah
he has veto power and his next team doesn't have.
His bird rights but, at this point making competing for
the mid level exception is actually. A step up he steps.
Up for him our final guy more is probably the, highest,
profile One Right. Mister jonathan kaminga the rumors have all
kind of circled around the same base, of an offer which,
is two years forty, five million dollars and it's a
team option on. The second year it's a deal that
he wouldn't have the right to. Veto a trade it's
a deal that is, built to trade which is why
he does not want. To sign it I'M curious before
i hear your thoughts, In the situation my, actual question
is do you think that Even if, the, warrior said
hey here's two for forty five, flat out guaranteed that he,
even signs it because that's still then a deal that's.
Built a.
Speaker 2: TRADE it is i think he wants a resolution that
it seems like he's just fed up, with all this,
WHICH rightfully so i understand that he's not the player that.
THEY want envisioned i know that he hasn't improved much
from a spacing perspective or, a playmaking perspective but like
he is still someone who can. Get stuff done he
can get to the, free throw line he can put
you put a lot of pressure, on the rim like.
He's super athletic there's so Much THERE going so i
do think that he understands going, to a, different you
know a different situation should improve his odds of breaking
through Whether He's an all star or not that that
is not for. Me to say we'll see if he.
Does go there it feels as though he's pretty out
On the whole warriors, experience By, now right like and,
if He is then i'm kind of a little bit
wondering why he did didn't just pick up his qualifying
offer and just get it over with. For next year
but he seems maybe determined to get out of that
situation now and is perhaps willing to. PAY for, it
i mean he might sign something less and then a greed,
to get traded but he might sign something or sorry in,
ASSIGN and, trade i mean because you have the, poison
pill status but he, signs for less it gets. Easier
to match like it's whatever you kind of come up
with as. A potential SOLUTION i'm not i. Wouldn't be
SURPRISED that's where I am with.
Speaker 1: Kuminga, Right, now yeah yeah this thing is getting. So
this field is this what's gonna? Be more hostile this
Or the cam Thomas? Situation in brooklyn it feels like
this one right just because it's no years of. Pent, up,
yep yeah man. THIS is tough i will say the
fact that he wants to Get to the. KINGS so
badly i know it's a, reflection of money but it
also makes me question his decision making. A LITTLE bit
so I don't like i would be interested to see
him get more on ball reps on a team that
has them to give him and. Has Better, spacing the
warriors they could probably carve out more on ball, Reps
for him like what lineups do you have to get
to to where there's enough? Spacing around Him It'd Be,
Quentin Post steph danthony Melton. And now horford is that how?
You round it assuming those two. Guys sign that, by
the way the cominga stuff is clearly holding up a
lot of other business because we're Just Assuming that al
Horford And d Anthony. Melton are warriors we do not
know that, For, sure though.
Speaker 2: No but that's been talked about to such an extent
we're just. Waiting on it but COULD You Imagine i valle,
horford is, Like fuck this, I'm SIGNING elsewhere. LIKE i
can't i need some resolution.
Speaker 1: Like that be he Goes back to boston to play
thirty minutes per game or.
Speaker 2: Whatever, it is well they need a, big man or
he tries His luck. With philly again. That'd be fun.
Speaker 1: Do you Think that the nets should have Any interest In,
JONATHAN m.
Speaker 2: YES i, do i do, BECAUSE look again i will
keep banging this drum despite the fact that he's been healthy,
for A While Like, michael porter junior we are talking
about like three back surgeries over the course of. His
young life like you just don't know, First and foremost
and now he's in. A new situation what if he
tries to become all that and. IT isn't, working i
mean he's still so much better as a. Stan steal
shooter at least you can if You do get kuming,
in the fold you Can pivot towards, Kuming, and go
look this. Is our four he's. Our play finisher he's
someone who can finish way more. At the rim he's
someone who can get. Up and catch he can even
play some Small, ball five like perhaps that's the way
to go. And move, forward but again it depends On
how the nets, View this thing like do they think
that they had such a great first round. In the, draft,
they're Like yeah we're we're just gonna carve out a
shit ton of minutes for. THESE five guys i don't
know if that's how they. Look, AT it.
Speaker 1: Yeah i. DON'T know that i, love him There But,
like cam thomas better not be back. If that happens
you can't have that many on ball scores that aren't
Real good pass in ADDITION to having i would say
The two that i'm Focused on Are nolan trey Ra
And Jeg or demon having them that gets all sorts
Of confusing the kings their, Best trade offer like if
you're getting into, sign in Trades That doesn't Devin Carter
and Malik Monk that If, I'M the warriors i kind
of understand why that. Wouldn't move me and then you
have to figure other stuff out as well because of.
Base year compensation miami was reportedly interested at the beginning,
of the offseason and in theory. They haven't done like
they're very small in. The front line they DO have
that i think it's what is it a sixteen million
dollar Trade Exception. From duncan robinson i'll have to, double
check that but there they just. Ducked the tack so
you Have To where's terry rozier going as part of
This Trade? Or andrew wiggins are they a team that
should have interesting kaminga. PROBABLY not right i.
Speaker 2: Don't Think so.
Speaker 1: The pelicans were for some that was a report that.
THEY were interested i think that died down.
Speaker 2: And The and the, bulls were interested like there have
been teams out there that. Who are interested it's just
a matter of trying to get him there by a.
Sign and, TRADE that's. DIFFICULT i believe i saw, someone,
mentioned like oh If only The warriors and bulls could
Swing like A kamenka for booch. TYPE of framework i
don't even know what kamenka would, have to earn like
specifically for that, to work out because only half of
it is like outgoing.
Speaker 1: Forty, million bucks basically and How are the bulls? Making?
Speaker 2: It out, yeah, so YEAH exactly it's i don't think
there's a way for that. To make sense.
Speaker 1: You get like io to soon move back and then
coming to sign and trade what Else to? THE bulls
got i wouldn't mind Him, on, the warriors no but.
Speaker 2: LIKE you're not i just need to know how you.
Match those salaries that's that's. The, TOUGH part.
Speaker 1: Yeah i mean basically so for anyone not familiar listening
and watching, with basher Compensation the. In Wayman's terms if
kaminga gets a twenty five, million dollar salary let's say
his new team that's acquiring him and to, sign and
trade they're taking on twenty five million. Dollars in salary
that's what it counts For, for the warriors though it
only counts as twelve and a half million dollars in. An,
outgoing salary yeah and so that gets all sorts of complicated,
to where now if you have a team that can
send back uber cheap players that fit, into, That structure
sure otherwise you need to get third teams involved or,
expand the deal which Is why the kings won is
SO complicated because i think you have To Give up
buddy healed in that. One as Well and If i'm
the warriors Like To get Devin Carter AND malik mont
i just it's not something. That Moves me the suns were,
reported out there but they're just their offers. Kind of
funny It was like royce O'Neal and like a bunch of,
second round picks like it was basically the. BASELINE of,
it i think so that. Doesn't Move Me If, I'm,
GOLDEN state.
Speaker 2: No i don't think ANYTHING moves me, i Also thinking If,
I'M the warriors i fully acknowledge that there's a level
of skill and a level of potential here that. Is
SUPER intriguing so i also want to get something in
return for sending that out, Because you know i'm Guessing
that the warriors you're looking, At, this like okay well
we controlled his future right now unless he picks up.
The qualifying offer we hold, All the guards so why
should we relinquish him and get something back that we
aren't really? That interested in, That makes sense, BUT if
anything i would argue that the base of your compensation
issue right, now is like really fucking these. Four. Teams, UP.
Speaker 1: Yeah no i would. Agree with you what a Package
Of like Jalen smith and io to soon move do?
It for You If, you're golden state that's sixteen. And
a half so if you were to give coming that's
a thirty three. Million dollar salary that gets. Really difficult,
there so yeah that's like even it would have to Be,
just like io which.
Speaker 2: Is, Just insane yeah so what You Were asking Jalen
smith and io that.
Speaker 1: If you could work it, Like work it Let's say
the bulls are Willing to pay john to than can
make like two years and sixty million or. Something like
that you probably could, game it well?
Speaker 2: Would that even and then. But they can't they don't
even Have, Money.
Speaker 1: To no they would have. To send out you'd have
to like find a team To Take. On javon carter
that's not The for the bulls situation with so much
room under the luxury tax as. Of, RIGHT now, anyway
I Mean If josh josh getty's contract impacts that great,
deal as well that might not be the end.
Speaker 2: Of THE world but i, Will Say this Jalen smith
And Iota assuming golden state all, Of a sudden I'm
Looking at golden state with with a with a bit of.
Speaker 1: AN eye COIN i think i, Could have Said jay
When smith and Iota, assumed as charlotte and you, Would
have said i'm Looking at the hornets with like. An
eye on maybe they're going to win the.
Speaker 2: Title or something, so oh no, there, are limits sir.
There are limits, BUT but no i just having a
floor spacing Big Man, like jalen smith who's like a
PERMANENT monster that i think would just fit So Well.
In GOLDEN state and i always just super underrated that
we've talked, about.
Speaker 1: It, yeah he's well here's the thing we're focusing, a,
lot on like how would you Get Rid. Of jonathan
kminga we've mentioned that there's? All this upside is THERE
any and i Could understand the warriors not wanting to
punt on the even as someone who doesn't count THEMSELVES
as a i Don't say a jonathan, coming a believer
but a skeptic AT least When i have grant in
my ear every other podcast talking about how he's going
to be Like The, next paul george he doesn't. Say that?
Anymore is there have you seen anything or do you
have any sort of conviction in him scaling down a
little bit, to where yeah in second. Units Or Something
when jimmy butler is, off The court maybe draymond's off,
the court too or just one of those guys is,
off the court you could use him as an. On
ball weapon but do you have any faith that he
could become in the, core lineup groups which is what
they want? Him to become someone who will, space the
floor move, without the ball, make quick decisions compete on defense.
AND or rebound i just listed a, lot of things
but they're all sort of just they're basic archetypal things
of someone like he has the physical tools to do all.
OF those things i guess you. Could get into do
you think HE has the iq to play like the
Movement brand? OF warriors. BASKETBALL i don't. I don't know.
Speaker 2: And the off, ball, gravity too right that's. Also a question.
Speaker 1: Teams aren't gonna guard him yet he would. NEED to
prove i remember, last preseason though he was taking like
ten threes p thirty six minutes and just. Banging THEM
in It's i and i'm ASKING this because. I honestly
don't i just feel someone with his talent upside you
should be, able, to say like there has to be
a scenario in which he isn't playing the exact role,
that he wants but he's, still really good rather than
going through these, stretches, where it's oh look at him
when he plays more than thirty minutes per game and
he's better, on a shorthanded less ideal Version. OF the
warriors i just has there ever been a stretch where
he was on the ideal Version of the warriors and
then just fitting in for an. Extended, Period, time no.
Speaker 2: No there hasn't and it's interesting Because you're asking kim
is to scale down when he has made his intentions
very clear that he wants. To scale, up you know
he wants to. Be a star he wants to be.
Speaker 1: THE big thing i was gonna say, IN his defense
i know that he's, not blameless here but, in his
defense it's easier to scale down if you're gonna. Get
paid Anyway and the warriors have kind of telegraphing we're not.
Gonna pay you we'll pay you. For two years but
to what end is? That his fault. He HASN'T played
there's i go back and forth because he hasn't played
the role, that they've needed but they've also had an
incredibly short. Rope on him it feels like for the
past four YEARS he's.
Speaker 2: Entire inba, career yeah right the dude has never even
cracked twenty's seven minutes per game in. A regular season.
That's that's that's you see something like.
Speaker 1: The defensive lapses or, the rebounding lapses like, on the
glass and then you kind. OF get it i don't
like everyone feels simultaneously at fault like, there doesn't know, but.
Speaker 2: BUT like okay i would also. Say as much if
you have lapses and you're looking over the shoulder, All,
the time like are you really going to significantly improve
on the line if you're that fearful of getting pulled
whenever you? MAKE a mistake.
Speaker 1: I probably not but also like even when he's been,
AT his peak i think, the drawing fouls, the rim
pressure especially when. On the ball when have you ever
looked at what he was doing at his, best and said,
you know what that makes a lot of Sense, For, the,
warriors like right it's alongside and, by the way they've
probably made it harder for him just By Trading for jimmy.
Speaker 2: Butler, big time. Yeah big time and also like just
the Fact that that draymond is such. A reluctant score
i think he had a bit of a better year,
here last year but it's it's still it seems that
so he heavily relies on not just the playmaking but
the overall Creation Level, of stephen curry who like, the
you know you kind Of hope that steph goes into
god mode every second game because it's it's what you need.
HIM to do i think for a young guy wanting, to, break,
through like yeah you can appreciate the greatness of your
teammate and and the fact that he's. An OLD timer
but i also think you're kind of looking at, This,
situation like okay SO when do i have a chance to?
Establish establish myself like it's not saying that's the right,
approach TO take but. I understand it i want to ask, you,
this THOUGH like because i agree with You that the
warriors are not the best. Situation for him what, seem
is like what seem out there like just makes sense
From like a, jonathan cominga perspective like what gives him
the best way? TO move FORWARD i.
Speaker 1: Don't i would have said, BEFORE the draft i Would, have,
said brooklyn right and it still Just. Might be brooklyn
they're up there for.
Speaker 2: Me, as well yeah.
Speaker 1: Definitely not the do? You? Think that now What, About
the Suns Like, for jonathan kamenka forget, their trade package
But They, have DEVIN booker But I guess jalen, Green's
also there so that gets. A little wonky.
Speaker 2: I hate, It I hated. I'm i am I'm thinking
The lakers.
Speaker 1: With lebron And Luca, and austin reeves that's the best. Situation,
for him.
Speaker 2: Well so, Here's The thing like lebron is not going to.
Be there forever, we know this Like. They extended luca
now's the time where they have to make like, a,
Certain pivot right like they have to Know that lebron
is is not going to be forever If you get
kaminga in there, in that system like We know lebron
is in the laite pastor And we know lucas in.
The leap passer like it's they're not going to Take
shots if kamena is right, at the rim like they
are going to relinquish their own shots to make, The, right,
play like yes do they take a lot of? Shots per.
GAME absolutely do i also trust them to make, the,
right play yeah like. Without a doubt and if they
somehow can get him going to, A larger extent i
don't see Any reason why kumika just couldn't slide into
ruispot and.
Speaker 1: Take, that over okay go with, Me ON this AND
i think i think the problem is you need a
third team to take the player they would have to
send out because they just don't have many other. Players
to Trade what if milwaukee said We'll Give up kyle
kuzma and the first round pick that, WE could trade
i doubt they Would include aj, green as well although
he would be fire And They have, buddy heeld already
But he'd be he's better. Defensively for sure what if
there was something Like that Like kuzma aj green in
that first for or even If it was Kuzma, And,
aj green no it Had to be kuzma that First
and Aj green for Buddy. Healed and kaminga if there's
a way to make something, LIKE that work i think
you need a third team To take on kuzma. As
the problem so what's the compensation? For doing that but
my point is what About what about milwaukee Where you
Have Giannis and miles turner as the other front Line
Members and bobby, Portis as well so nothing but like two, floor,
Spacing bigs.
Speaker 2: Right i'm just wondering, Where he'll play like Where how
will jonathan can get? His touches there, IN his Movies i.
Speaker 1: Think doc has favored the ultra huge line where it's as,
we'll go with they'll probably play comunet The two With
portis and turner for all we.
Speaker 2: Know, about to say starting. Its Shooting guard so i'm
gonna be. HONEST with you i don't. HATE or sorry
i was about to be, NICE to say i don't.
HATE that fit i do. HATE that fit i. Don't,
LIKE it Sorry, I that hey i'm.
Speaker 1: Out here throwing. Out courageous ideas you're just naming flagship Markets. Like, the, lakers.
Speaker 2: Okay okay you want to get, real About. This The
nuggets the nuggets would make sense him as. A play finisher.
Speaker 1: Now you're really putting A lot on yokic to make
the most Of Your like's aaron? Gordon, still there like
what is the what does the package? Even Look?
Speaker 2: Like in Denver that's the well that that wasn't. What
we're discussing where discussing. The best, fit But like the
nuggets would be a great. Fit for Him?
Speaker 1: What? About Indiana, HMM obi topping i guess is like
part of the. PRIMARY outgoing money i don't Know are
THE warriors getting i Guess You're getting jaris walker.
Speaker 2: Is Like part jonathan kminga just physically push out of the. Starting,
powerful spot.
Speaker 1: Well Maybe you're going siakam? At, THE five, look, i
mean like look at, Their Centers, Here Isaiah Jackson jay.
Huff wiseman's back not like a ton, of options?
Speaker 2: There THAT'S true.
Speaker 1: What I Mean him brown kaminga Developing Into an aaron
gordon type player be the most realistic. Option, FOR him
oh i. DON'T hate that i mean that would be
a fantastic. OUTCOME for him i just He's. Never shown
Aaron Even when aaron Gordon was in orlando trying to
Be Like a paul, george type offensively the defense. WAS
always there i haven't Seen. That from kaminga so even
if you believe he could. Scale down offensively but like
it comes Back, to the warriors give him, the right
opportunity they. Might, Be, inferio why yeah he could have
been that on this team with the way they. Might
to play when you Look at out Gordon plays off
yokich at the same time they've given them such. A
short lead, It's, MY god no i don't know who's.
More right here and there's we've just. GONE through it
i haven't loved any of the destinations that we've. Got
out there.
Speaker 2: And it's it's in large parties because of the question
That hovers above kuminga's lack. Of floor spacing because there
is A team where i think the powerful situation is
fairly open where it could be an interesting Situation. That's
the spurs but like could you imagine the, spacing Issues
there like fox.
Speaker 1: Cast so barely imagine? Them right now, right like.
Speaker 2: That that wouldn't improve the like the shooting wise right
like that's it's so tough nowadays to fit, in non
shooters which is really the. Takeaway from this it's the
same it's the same reason why we Have doubts about,
giddy all right came.
Speaker 1: UP with something i actually think this. Would, Be, interesting
okay okay if they can, FIND a, way i mean
but they're not getting out, of the tack then how
are they getting out?
Speaker 2: Of?
Speaker 1: The tacks like? What the what What if the celtics
just said it'll be some type Of Mega deal Anthony
Simons and sam Hauser and then Cominga. Goes TO boston
so I think the warriors End. Up with hawser you
figured out a Way To turn anthony simons from like
send them to another team for a, much cheaper player
and you're shaving, the twelve million thirty million bucks or
whatever you need to as. Part, of this.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's Actually interesting and i'll. Give you. That that's.
Funny that's good that's. A, Good, ONE okay no i.
Speaker 1: Would have Concerns maybe without tatum with their SPACING just,
Because i mean christmas, che is there so. THAT'LL be
fine i think, came back there gonna be over.
Speaker 2: And like yeah and he Can play With tatum when.
Tatum gets back like.
Speaker 1: That's Not It's The Jaalen brown jonathan minga stuff gets me.
A little weird but like maybe he Would, Defend IN
boston so. I, DON'T know yeah i don't like the,
idea of them as stupid as it Sounds Giving up.
SAM hawser there i think that for this season he'd
be important for a shooting but like they're not trying
to win, This season anyway.
Speaker 2: No they're. Not they shouldn't they should actually they should
actually go to the other. The, opposite direction absolutely do.
Speaker 1: WE find IT i think. I like it i don't know.
Speaker 2: What the EX the one i, Like the best like
that's that's really because of the, more you know quote.
UNQUOTE realistic, options i mean still my favorite Would still
Be denver In Miami. FROM PHIL brown.
Speaker 1: I i kind of, HATE there's, so i mean he.
Fits the whole we're not going to play Anybody Except,
for khalil ware who's bigger than. Six' NINE model but
i i just don't know, how you get him because
you have to find a, Play like they've traded Like
are you trading wiggins to a team And then getting
back kaminga and then that team is because you're Not
Getting anything for terry rosier, Right at, this, point.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no no okay let me let me.
Throw this list last we have.
Speaker 1: One More question Though Anthony simons, or cam thomas more who.
Would you rather have I'd Rather have a simons.
Speaker 2: Simons because of, like the off. Ball gravity and whatnot
he's just so. MUCH easier to implement i think he's.
Speaker 1: THE better passer too.
Speaker 2: I don't like that i think so. That's that is
fair i'm gonna throw this team out There. As Well
for kuminga and i'm not thinking, about the financials here
like you'll have To. FIX that the pistons i think
you're Gonna.
Speaker 1: Go, WITH the pistons yeah i don't love It Because
you Have Ron holland And asar Thompson and Kate and
jade and ivy and where does? He fit into that
forget about they don't have a floor spacing five right
Now Right, Shout out, bobby clintman so like where does he?
Fit it for you i'm asking where does? He fit? Into,
YOU for, that.
Speaker 2: Yeah i mean look this is like a pure upside
gamble where you kind of hope that everything sticks with
the shooting and you know someone else's, lards how to
shoot because Again This is the. Achilles, HEEL right there
Like i love that. Kate takes more threes, not an elite,
shooter ivy. Good shooter low? Volume is that sustainable is
that something that you can transfer over to a full
eighty two game season and he'll hit forty plus percent
from from three over the course. OF that many games
i don't know. The Answer To that us er thompson
again probably never going to be Like a clean shooter.
Holland questions During, questions even karisel vert who, they signed
this year is. Not a seamless shooter it's, going, To
be difficult absolutely but like it's are we just in
that space where regardless Of, where we send kamena it's
gonna be a question because of. The, LACK of shooting.
Speaker 1: Yeah i just, that's, LIKE so ah Yeah i don't.
LOVE detroit For him i THINK i'm just like i
Want to see what detroit is as currently constructed.
Speaker 2: THAT it's also. Fair i get that do you.
Speaker 1: Know it might be on brand for this front office
that because we just don't. Know what they're doing like
what IF. It was Just Pj, washington to golden state
you figure o A Way to Get kayla martin to
brooklyn or into, a jazz Trade exception and Then. Cominga
goes to dallas.
Speaker 2: So you want Him To basically Get Cooper.
Speaker 1: Flag and anthony davis that would Be, so a nausey marshall, that'd, Just, be, funny,
RIGHT no.
Speaker 2: YEAH no i don't. I Don't, like that dam like
basically we have to find, a, It's so specific right
like you have to find a seam where there's a
bit of an opening at the four where all the
positions around you that are around that open position. ARE
like good shooters i don't, think, That situation.
Speaker 1: Exists no, and if IT does, IT'S like I mean
i think boston is my favorite that, we came up
WITH which is just i think, you could just say
like You, could, pencil in brooklyn right that would be
that would not. Be an EGREGIOUS one and also i Don't.
HATE him in chicago i just don't see like the.
Pathway to getting him and then if. YOU'RE also paying
giddy i Hate.
Speaker 2: That path For chicago, same, same so, oh actually.
Speaker 1: Really quickly who is? It a bigger risk Like, if
you're the warriors is it A bigger risk for kaminga
to sign his qualifying offer or a Bigger risk for the, warriors,
if that.
Speaker 2: Happens well they want to, get. Something for him obviously
that's that's that they made those, intentions very very, clear
because you know, former seventh overall pick they've at least
a vested. FOUR years in him i THINK that would
be i think that was. SCARED them a bit i
say he. TOOK the qualifying offer i.
Speaker 1: THINK it's a bit i think it's a disaster for
them if he. Takes the, qualifying offer and honestly if i'm,
THEM at this point i probably wouldn't push back against
just given if he's want to sign a two year
guaranteed deal or, A one PLUS one i think i
rather than, A one MINUS one i think i would.
Give IT to him like i THINK that they're and
i think that's. ULTIMATELY how this ends i think he
gets like two that this, will be my prediction two
years between forty, five and fifty million and it's either
fully it's, a straight two years or there's a player
option at, the end, of, it or maybe honestly maybe it's,
three four seventy five but with a team, option on
the third sort, of the giddy deal Because then it's
the warriors have some what if, he does pan out
you don't want to see him just, leave in two
years so then they. HAVE some team, upside i think
that honest doesn't that feel like the middle ground for
this Case specifically is get kaminga the extra he gets,
his second guaranteed year and then he's At least the
absolute like the middle, ground, scenario would, be oh he's
good maybe he, could have gotten more but he there's
the team option for him, On, another.
Speaker 2: Twenty right like let's just if he gets twenty. Five
million a year is there a world? Where, he's not tradable.
Speaker 1: Well and, if he's not tradable, it's for a year
it's next, season he's not tradable but then all of
a sudden he's basically an.
Speaker 2: Expiring, contract next, Exactly yeah all right i'm down with
that three years seventy, five with, an option no, option,
JUST straight.
Speaker 1: No no I would Go If i'm the warriors i'd
push for THE team option BECAUSE i could see i
absolutely because then if if you just go straight or,
with a player option there. Probably is a world We Saw,
it with galen green but like he was a featured,
part of that offense cominga's not guaranteed To Be. THAT
for golden state i think there is a world if
you guarantee him three years that it spends two seasons
as a, non asset just, underwater.
Speaker 2: So too guaranteed And, Then it's, The yeah.
Speaker 1: And honestly i'd have to do the, math with Uh
Oh this, is josh Schwartley? Says Why not philly uh
making the math work would probably hurt my brain at
this point when You're. LOOKING at THE sixers i ALSO
i hate that i. Don't, like him together yeah but
they were remember weren't they a? Team that was interested
that was last Off season report was Philly Is. INTERESTED
in jonathan kaminga.
Speaker 2: I honestly don't remember but. YOU might be right i.
Speaker 1: Don't love the fit and it's also just what does?
That Deal look like quentin, grimes, is? Gone right yeah
yep and Then.
Speaker 2: Rather have of god And maybe, not for philly specifically but.
Like in a vacuum I'd probably rather have Grimes right
NOW than kuminga because i think he's so much easier
to implement because of like the off ball, gravity and
like yeah and then there's just like.
Speaker 1: A, weird overlap not, overlap but it's like so What?
Is that having kamengo what DOES That? DO to vj
edgecomb i know, they PLAY different positions and i GUESS.
You're Just designing vj edge comb will never have the
ball right and the money. Is, just so toughs yeah.
Speaker 2: This actually lends itself well. To a future episode, we
need to record like we need to identify players who
make it so difficult on teams to make a call
on them because of like their weaknesses. That, are so
specific yeah if, You, CATCH my drift yes.
Speaker 1: I catch your drift i'm actually still trying To. Figure
out a philly it Would Have to be oubra drummond
and Are they giving up like that's the only and
it would have to Be a then of. Grime sign
and trade there's multiple Teams involved in it's philly giving
up A Pick Because if I'm golden state And, i'm
Not getting Quentin If i'm getting quentin grimes as part
of the deal is That, if you're the warriors is
that tickle?
Speaker 2: YOUR fancy at all, i, wouldn't HATE that Honestly if
I If i'm, GETTING quentin grimes Back i, think the
warriors specifically like it seemed that's so that so wants to.
GET the three, up.
Speaker 1: I guess so like that's the but you still need
a third team to make that LIKE and who wants
i guess you could Find A taker. FOR kelly a
bridgejunior I don't, Know about drummond Though and what is? Philly?
Beneath the aprons right so there are ten million beneath
the first, aprons of right now that does Not Include.
Anything for quentin grime.
Speaker 2: But do you? Even like the? Fit? THAT'S the thing Oh, i, Hate.
Speaker 1: It philly right i'm just curious as to how we. Can,
make it happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah let's let's go out a way to make it
happen here though. We hate, THE fit SO.
Speaker 1: Yeah i think i think it's going to end up
a two year, deal with a, yeah A player option
but i think it should be like a three year deal.
WITH a team option i think that allows both parties
to save phase and makes the most most, sense at
this point would you consider If, you were the warriors
let's say he'll sign your deal, the team option one
the one plus one or, the one minus one however
you want, to flame frame it would you go up
on it to get? Him? TO sign.
Speaker 2: That yeah i, WOULDN'T you would short.
Speaker 1: I think You'd, be worried about well then how can
we give out OR for the miniml e still if
you go let's say two for fifty with the, team option?
Speaker 2: In, yours OH it well, IF i go up i
don't want to go up to a point where it
comes with, Consequences FOR other players like i don't what
is the max number you can go up to before.
THAT starts getting.
Speaker 1: Tricky i don't know i'm assuming they. GAMED it out
perfectly i don't actually know what. That number Would be
but if kamingu's cap hold, RIGHT now is twenty i
mean they basically offered him his cap hold twenty. Two
point nine million so, as of right now with, that
On the books the warriors are we need them to
be below the first ape or just. Below the second
apron actually they have fourteen million. In second apron room
that's so Then it looks. Unless i'm missing somebody that's
then doual if they wanted to come up a little.
Speaker 2: Bit and his h and what? Was his number there.
Speaker 1: His number there with them being under that amount on
the second apron is twenty. Two, point nine million yeah
se so do you BRING that up, to i don't
know two years, and fifty two million maybe a flat?
Twenty six? EACH year is that i don't even know
if that gets him to sign it the one. The
one minus.
Speaker 2: One and that's really. The main thing here it just
they both seem so checked. OUT on this experience i
just wonder what the hell like this solution?
Speaker 1: Is, going to be like is there do you think
there's A Solution in which jonathan kamnga? Doesn't, come back
unhappy no even if it was even if if the,
game three years straight three years, and eighty million dollars
you DON'T think that that's.
Speaker 2: I think, he, has aspirations like yeah he'll probably be satisfied,
from a financial perspective and you can, go into, that season, you,
KNOW happy goal. Lucky i got paid then the calendar
month switches And they suddenly it's january and he's playing
twenty four minutes per game he's not getting the, shots
that he wants he's not getting the. Opportunity that HE
wants then. What, i don't know yeah this feels like
it's just we're just waiting for this, Thing to end
right like this. Is a doomed relationship we're that we're
in that friend circle where there's a. Couple they hooked
up we all know it's gonna. End up up poorly
we're just waiting for. That, shoe to drop so final
question before we.
Speaker 1: Get, out Of Here yeah is Jonathan kaminga on the
warriors PAST the twenty? Six nba trade Deadline?
Speaker 2: So, this coming jebruary. NO he is gone.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he gets. A second guaranteed. Year
i don't know IF you could just i guess you say,
He'll just sell low i'll say. No to just it
just it feels like that's. Where this is headed but signs.
Speaker 2: The freaking, Qualifying offer.
Speaker 1: Oh man so we. BOTH think that Camp i have
camp thomas is the most. Likely to, Do It you
have quentin grimes is the most. Likely to do it
what's the percentage chance that you give this one of ending?
With a qualifying?
Speaker 2: Offer PROBABLY ten percent because i think he understands That
he needs the warriors as a vehicle. To, Get somewhere
else yeah i'll.
Speaker 1: GO like twenty percent i could just like at one
and he seems like. A wildcard, to, Me, why so yeah.
Mort this was great we're able to just tell everyone
who's watching listening and thank you for. Everyone who watched
live it makes it we do this, to interact with
you but also because. IT'S a lot easier i, don't
have to edit it's just up there. On, YouTube and live.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's actually just because. Of your own laziness that's, that's,
why we're.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, we all know Me mister lazy mort can
you tell our listeners where they can find you and
all the fantastic.
Speaker 2: Work that you do, and by the way THAT it's
funny because i know. How hard you work that's that's.
WHERE the joke is i don't.
Speaker 1: WORK hard at all. I think that's right i haven't
watched a basketball game, SINCE like twenty fifteen. I, don't think.
Speaker 2: Right yeah and your. Basket is coming off that's actually
going to be your first. Experience exposure to basketball for.
Speaker 1: Someone Asked me who fronz wagner was the. UNDER the
other day. I still don't know, i, need, TO know
right yeah i. Need, to google it Hey time to
the warriors a nice little bookke end there Cominga Instead,
Of ron, Z wagner right yeah. I.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't hate that uh you can find ME over. At
the np podcast you Can Find. Me at yahoo Sports
find me. At forbes as well uh and if you By,
happen stands speak danish you can find my Podcast. Work
at buzzer, beater.
Speaker 1: Until next, time and as always we need to shout,
out to, well first Like, Subscribe, Comment, on YouTube apple
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our look aheads. Continue to roll out they'll probably be
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check them out like common subscribe. Share in the episodes
that helps out. A ton, as well, and now most,
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shout out to one the only still waiting on his,
offer In free Agency mister frank new keino