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<v Speaker 4>Plus, you are now listening to True Murder The most

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<v Speaker 4>shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that

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<v Speaker 4>have written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker, DTK.

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<v Speaker 4>Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking

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<v Speaker 4>and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with

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<v Speaker 4>your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky.

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<v Speaker 5>Thirteen new insomnia aducing murder stories from the true crime

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<v Speaker 5>Master Michael Benson, including Monster of the Low Country, Born

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<v Speaker 5>to Raise Hell, The Hollywood Ripper, The Murder of Craig Rideout,

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<v Speaker 5>Call Me Daddy, Savage, Waitress King Creep, Dark Stretch of Road,

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<v Speaker 5>Family of Terror, The Telltale Knot, Vengeance's Mine Breckinridge, and

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<v Speaker 5>a Few Thoughts on the Black Dahlia, Dozens of Photos.

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<v Speaker 5>An excerpt from the book's final story. It is the

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<v Speaker 5>most famous American murder case not involving a celebrity, a

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<v Speaker 5>crime so horrible that it changed the tone of an

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<v Speaker 5>entire city. Before throughout Los Angeles, women routinely walked home

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<v Speaker 5>alone after they required escorts and all because of the

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<v Speaker 5>mind boggingly bizarre ordeal of Elizabeth Short. The Black Dahlia,

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<v Speaker 5>a celebrity only in death to twenty two year old

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<v Speaker 5>raven haired beauty as Shobiz Wannabee was found on the

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<v Speaker 5>morning of January fifteenth, nineteen forty seven. She was naked,

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<v Speaker 5>severed into two pieces below the rib cage and arranged

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<v Speaker 5>on the ground like a piece of surreal art. Arms

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<v Speaker 5>above her head, legs spread, a upper body parallel but

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<v Speaker 5>to the side of her lower body. Our sardonicus smile

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<v Speaker 5>carved into her face with a knife and portions of

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<v Speaker 5>a breast and a thigh cut out. The missing piece

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<v Speaker 5>of a thigh flesh was found inserted in her rectum.

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<v Speaker 5>The skin attached to that piece contained a rose tattoo.

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<v Speaker 5>She'd been tortured for days, tortured till dead, drained of

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<v Speaker 5>blood and dumped no presented at the edge of a

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<v Speaker 5>vacant lot, left foot only inches from the sidewalk, hair

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<v Speaker 5>freshly washed in the Limit Park section of La. The

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<v Speaker 5>cause of death was drowning. She drowned on her own blood.

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<v Speaker 5>The book that we're featuring this evening is Dark Roses thirteen,

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<v Speaker 5>horrific True Stories with my special guest, journalist and author

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<v Speaker 5>Michael Benson. Welcome back to the program, and thank you

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<v Speaker 5>very much for this interview. Michael Benson. Hey, thanks for

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<v Speaker 5>having me Dan, thank you, it's always a treat to

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<v Speaker 5>have you on. And congratulations on this latest It certainly

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<v Speaker 5>lives up to the name thirteen Horrific True Stories. Let's

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<v Speaker 5>just start because I gave a basic synopsis. In the synopsis,

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<v Speaker 5>I gave a sort of the contents of this incredible book.

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<v Speaker 5>Let's just get you talking about some of the first characters,

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<v Speaker 5>some of the first killers and subjects of this book,

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<v Speaker 5>Monster of the Low Country. Tell us about Steven Stanko

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<v Speaker 5>and a little bit about this story.

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, I have written about psycho killers of all shapes

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<v Speaker 6>and sizes, both major genders, but none were more sinister

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<v Speaker 6>than Steven Stenko, the Monster of the Low Country. He

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<v Speaker 6>was different from other psychos. He had charisma, he was

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<v Speaker 6>a social being or he could perfectly imitate one, and

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<v Speaker 6>he metamorphosed into a pied piper party animal while under

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<v Speaker 6>torturous stress. He reminded people of Ted Bundy. He had

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<v Speaker 6>superior social skills, very rare for a cold budded killer.

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<v Speaker 6>As a rule, they have no real understanding of compassion.

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<v Speaker 6>Yet Stanko was observant, and he had emotional mimicry skills

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<v Speaker 6>the rival and Oscar winner. He could make friends, pick

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<v Speaker 6>up women, command the spotlight, even when he he was

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<v Speaker 6>completely desperate and on the run for his life. As

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<v Speaker 6>a kid, he seemed to have everything going for him.

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<v Speaker 6>His dad was demanding and impossible to please, but Steven,

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<v Speaker 6>by all accounts, had a lot going on. He entered

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<v Speaker 6>high school tall and good looking, good at sports, baseball, football,

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<v Speaker 6>Plus he was smart. His teachers got dreamy i thinking

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<v Speaker 6>about him. They knew that the boy was going to

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<v Speaker 6>go far, and they were going to be able to

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<v Speaker 6>say that they knew him. When Ostenko had it all

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<v Speaker 6>mapped out, he was going to join the Air Force Academy.

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<v Speaker 6>He was going to become a fighter pilot, an astronaut,

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<v Speaker 6>and then president in the United States, and he had

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<v Speaker 6>to drive to do it. His father had seen to that,

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<v Speaker 6>But then something went bad. When he was fifteen, his

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<v Speaker 6>older brother died in a suspicious fire, and Stephen thought,

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<v Speaker 6>like in a battlefield promotion, he would move up a

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<v Speaker 6>notch in his father's estimation, but it didn't work out

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<v Speaker 6>that way. Dad seemed to hold Stephen responsible for his

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<v Speaker 6>brother's death, and Steven fell apart. Instead of schoolwork, he

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<v Speaker 6>worked on schemes, convoluted plots, get rich schemes, things like that.

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<v Speaker 6>He took the SAT exam, didn't do that great. I

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<v Speaker 6>was rejected by the Air Force Academy. So when high

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<v Speaker 6>school was over, instead of becoming a fighter pilot and

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<v Speaker 6>astronaut and president of the United States, he took a

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<v Speaker 6>couple of courses at a community college, skipped class, and

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<v Speaker 6>started stealing cars. He became a full fledged con man.

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<v Speaker 6>He could tell lies for weeks without betraying himself, but

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<v Speaker 6>when his lives were exposed, he was cornered by reality.

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<v Speaker 6>He lashed out with violence real doctor Jekyl mister Hyde type.

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<v Speaker 6>First time came in nineteen ninety six when he tried

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<v Speaker 6>to kill his longtime girlfriend Liz. The attack sent him

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<v Speaker 6>to prison for eight years, and like many psychopaths, Stanko

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<v Speaker 6>functioned better in jail. Lack of freedom helped him focus,

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<v Speaker 6>and he wrote a book about life in prison while

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<v Speaker 6>he was in prison. He got it published while incarcerated,

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<v Speaker 6>and he was released a better man than he went in.

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<v Speaker 6>He became out a published author, and he immediately planned

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<v Speaker 6>to write a second book, a sort of encyclopedia of

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<v Speaker 6>serial killers, which, as it turned out, was more of

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<v Speaker 6>a book about how to become a serial killer. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 6>To help with his research, he found a beautiful librarian

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<v Speaker 6>named Laura Ling in the low country of South care Carolina,

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<v Speaker 6>but divorce, living in a tiny house with her teenage

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<v Speaker 6>daughter now free outside of prison, Stanko couldn't write a book.

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<v Speaker 6>He could only count people out of money, and again

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<v Speaker 6>he lied until he painted himself into a corner, and

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<v Speaker 6>this time when mister Hyde came out, he came out

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<v Speaker 6>big time. He raped his girlfriend's teenage daughter and then

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<v Speaker 6>forced the girl to watch as he beat her mother

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<v Speaker 6>to death. He then slipped the girl's throat, calmly took

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<v Speaker 6>a shower, and then left, stealing the librarian's car. But

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<v Speaker 6>what he didn't know was that the teenager had survived

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<v Speaker 6>and it managed to call nine to one one reporting

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<v Speaker 6>that her attacker was Stephen Stanko. Police were on his

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<v Speaker 6>trail in minutes, so Steiko drives to another friend's trailer home.

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<v Speaker 6>An older man named Henry Lee Turner tells Henry that

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<v Speaker 6>his dad has just died. He needs someone to talk to.

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<v Speaker 6>Turner's the shirt come out in so, while Turner's shaving,

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<v Speaker 6>Stanko shoots him to death with his own gun. He

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<v Speaker 6>leaves laure Ling's car parked at Turner's trailer, takes Turner's

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<v Speaker 6>pickup truck and heads off, and he decides to hide

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<v Speaker 6>out in the open. He drove to Augusta, Georgia, where

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<v Speaker 6>the Master's tournament was underway. Golf tournament Tiger Wood's in

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<v Speaker 6>the lead, but it was a tournament plagued by rain,

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<v Speaker 6>causing the bars of Augusta to be filled with people.

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<v Speaker 6>So Stanko put on a golf shirt a pair of

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<v Speaker 6>cargo shorts, and it didn't matter how often they showed

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<v Speaker 6>his photo on TV. He blended at least for a while. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 6>he bar hopped, conspicuously, spent money, met a woman he

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<v Speaker 6>was invited home to sleep on her couch because he'd

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<v Speaker 6>been drinking. I went to church with her and her

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<v Speaker 6>parents the next morning, and then he went alone to

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<v Speaker 6>a mall to get breakfast in a diner. And as

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<v Speaker 6>he did this, the girl he had met the previous

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<v Speaker 6>night got a call from her mother saying that Steve

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<v Speaker 6>the guy in church was wanted for murder at his

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<v Speaker 6>picture in the newspaper, so they called the police and

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<v Speaker 6>Stanko was arrested coming out of the diner. So is

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<v Speaker 6>Stephen Christopher Stanko was one of the rare psychopaths who

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<v Speaker 6>had the looks in charisma to start new relationships with

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<v Speaker 6>both men and women and be socially active even as

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<v Speaker 6>he was running for his life. But the question remains,

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<v Speaker 6>did Stephen's brother's suspicious death really oil a golden boy

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<v Speaker 6>future or had Stephen been a con artist all along

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<v Speaker 6>with the cracks in his schemes only becoming visible following

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<v Speaker 6>his brother's death.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes.

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<v Speaker 5>Absolutely, you have the next story born to raise hell

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<v Speaker 5>about Richard Speck, and many people are familiar with this

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<v Speaker 5>story with this one student, nurse Corson Amurreo escaping this

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<v Speaker 5>killer Richard Spec by him losing count and her hiding

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<v Speaker 5>under a bed. You do include some very very interesting,

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<v Speaker 5>horrifying information that we talked about just before the program

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<v Speaker 5>in this story about Richard Spec.

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<v Speaker 6>Could you just tell us a little.

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<v Speaker 5>Bit about the end of this story that again many

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<v Speaker 5>people might not know of, and before we talk about

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<v Speaker 5>a very very horrifying story The Hollywood Ripper sure A.

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<v Speaker 6>Spec was a cover boy for TVs and t R

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<v Speaker 6>newspapers and magazines in the summer in nineteen sixty six.

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<v Speaker 6>His crime was worse than anybody could previously have imagined,

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<v Speaker 6>and he became part of American nightmare. Richard Speck was

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<v Speaker 6>America's boogeyman for a while, but he managed to have

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<v Speaker 6>a second act. He worked his way into our nightmares

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<v Speaker 6>a second time. So in prison, he temporarily endeared himself

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<v Speaker 6>to the prison population by rescuing an injured bird and

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<v Speaker 6>then nursing it back to health, just like in the

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<v Speaker 6>Hollywood movie The Birdman of Alcatraz. But when Speck was

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<v Speaker 6>told that he had to get rid of the bird,

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<v Speaker 6>instead of releasing it, he threw it into an electric fan,

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<v Speaker 6>resulting in a storm of feathers and blood, and he

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<v Speaker 6>told the guard that he couldn't have the bird, No

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<v Speaker 6>one could have the bird. Speck died in nineteen ninety one,

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<v Speaker 6>his bad heart finally giving out on him. He was

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<v Speaker 6>forty nine, but before that he made himself known to

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<v Speaker 6>us in a hideous manner. There was a videotape released

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<v Speaker 6>that showed Speck in prison with female breasts the result

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<v Speaker 6>of illegal hormone injections he'd gotten in prisoning oral sex

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<v Speaker 6>to another inmate. Sort of a sex tape. I guess

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<v Speaker 6>he'd called celebrity sex tape in the worst possible way.

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<v Speaker 6>And on the tape someone asks Beck why he killed

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<v Speaker 6>those nurses, and he said it wasn't their night.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 5>Tell us about the Hollywood Ripper, a little less known

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<v Speaker 5>serial killer.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, well, I think the interesting thing about the Hollywood

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<v Speaker 6>Ripper is that it sort of ties into Ashton Kutcher's

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<v Speaker 6>story rising to start him in Hollywood. Story starts nine

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<v Speaker 6>am on a Saturday morning in nineteen ninety three when

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<v Speaker 6>Rick Paccaccio puts his dog on Alesia and comes out

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<v Speaker 6>to walk and they this is in glen View, Illinois,

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<v Speaker 6>and he finds his daughter Tricia dead on the front porch.

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<v Speaker 6>She'd been murdered and left on the front porch of

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<v Speaker 6>the house. They tried to figure out who did it.

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<v Speaker 6>They couldn't find out. The case grew cold, and life

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<v Speaker 6>in glen View, Illinois went on a little sadder and

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<v Speaker 6>scarier than before. They jump ahead eight years. There's a

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<v Speaker 6>vicious murder of twenty two year old student model Ashley

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<v Speaker 6>Lauren ellerin in the Hollywood Hills in a yellow wooden

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<v Speaker 6>rented bungalowp which I visited. She was less than a

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<v Speaker 6>year out of school, prettiest girl in her class, and

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<v Speaker 6>like thousands of others, every year she went to Hollywood

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<v Speaker 6>to find fame and fortune, and not for the first

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<v Speaker 6>time in Hollywood, a beautiful young woman won her greatest

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<v Speaker 6>fame and death. The murder scene was on Pinehurst Road

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<v Speaker 6>and it was discovered on Thursday morning, February twenty second,

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<v Speaker 6>two thousand and one. She'd been stabbed the phenomenal forty

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<v Speaker 6>seven times. Her throat had been cut so deeply that

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<v Speaker 6>she was practically decapitated, and the case gained much publicity

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<v Speaker 6>by the fact that the night before, actually had been

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<v Speaker 6>scheduled to go on a date with actor Ashton Kushcher,

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<v Speaker 6>who was an initial suspect. He was a star at

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<v Speaker 6>the time of the seventies show and he made a

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<v Speaker 6>couple of movies too, And he told police he'd gone

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<v Speaker 6>to pick her up the night before, but she didn't

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<v Speaker 6>answer the door. He peeked in a window and thought

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<v Speaker 6>he saw wine stains, but he knew he'd been at

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<v Speaker 6>a party in that house a few weeks earlier and

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<v Speaker 6>either been drinking on so he didn't think it was blood.

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<v Speaker 6>He was quickly exonerated, and again the case grew cold,

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00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:15.840
<v Speaker 6>jumping head another four years. December one, two thousand and five,

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<v Speaker 6>a woman named Maria Bruno's asleep in her house in Elmonte, California,

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<v Speaker 6>and she's the mother of four, recently separated from her husband.

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<v Speaker 6>And as it turned out, she was in an apartment

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<v Speaker 6>house that was supposed to have good security. Dinner no

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<v Speaker 6>good at all, and intruder climbed in through her kitchen

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<v Speaker 6>window and stabbed her to death in her bed. She

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<v Speaker 6>probably never woke up. Left alone with his victim, the

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<v Speaker 6>killer had fun and mutilated the body, cut open her breast,

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<v Speaker 6>pulled out her implants. The breasts were removed completely then

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<v Speaker 6>and one of her nipple was cut off and placed

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<v Speaker 6>over her mouth, which leads us to Santa Monica, California,

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<v Speaker 6>and another crime scene. I've walked through it, and I

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<v Speaker 6>walked through this one at night, just get an idea

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<v Speaker 6>of what the alleys for Santa Monica looked like. But

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<v Speaker 6>there's a twenty six year old Michelle Murphy, and she

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<v Speaker 6>was a fighter. She says she went to sleep at

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<v Speaker 6>about ten thirty, woke up about a half hour later

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<v Speaker 6>with a man straddling her, and the next thing she

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<v Speaker 6>knew she was being stabbed in the chest, the shoulder,

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<v Speaker 6>in the arm. She grabbed the knife. Her most severe

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<v Speaker 6>cuts were on her hand as she defended herself. Eventually

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<v Speaker 6>she got a really good boot in kicked him off

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<v Speaker 6>the bed and he retreated into the other room, and

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<v Speaker 6>she started screaming, why are you doing this to me?

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<v Speaker 6>And he said I'm sorry and left. He had cut

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<v Speaker 6>himself during the attack and he just lived on the

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<v Speaker 6>other side of the alley. So when the police arrived,

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<v Speaker 6>all they had to do was follow the blood drops

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<v Speaker 6>to his house and boom, they had him. And when

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<v Speaker 6>they tested his DNA they found bingo. Other cases popped

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<v Speaker 6>up Maria Bruno, al Manti, Ashley Elleren in the Hollywood Hills.

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<v Speaker 6>And then they traced his history and found out that

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<v Speaker 6>he had been a friend of the brother of Tricia

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<v Speaker 6>Paccaccio and Illinois. So they caught themselves a serial killer.

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<v Speaker 6>And again his name was Michael Garjulo and his la

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<v Speaker 6>trial was spotlated because Heeshton Kutcher came to testify for

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<v Speaker 6>the prosecution, and that was the day that the most

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<v Speaker 6>reporters were there.

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<v Speaker 5>Absolutely, you talk about another story, King Creep, featuring a

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<v Speaker 5>Michael King tell us about King Creep.

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<v Speaker 6>Wow, this is one of the most disturbing stories in

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<v Speaker 6>the book. And I picked the thirteen stories because of

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<v Speaker 6>their disturbing nature. Book was originally going to be called

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<v Speaker 6>I Will Show You Monsters, but I didn't like it

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<v Speaker 6>because the eye and the title is me and my

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<v Speaker 6>son is living in la and he was taking some

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<v Speaker 6>experimental nighttime photography and he took a picture of a

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<v Speaker 6>rose garden at night, which ended up being the cover

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<v Speaker 6>of the book, and I said, well, that's it, because

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<v Speaker 6>you could feel the gloominess coming off the photo in

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<v Speaker 6>a way that I thought was unusual. So we call

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<v Speaker 6>it Dark Roses and the stories themselves, those are the

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<v Speaker 6>dark roses which grow out of blood soaked soil. King Creep.

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<v Speaker 6>This is about the murder of Denise Amberley in Northport, Florida.

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<v Speaker 6>There was a home invasion. She was the young mother

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<v Speaker 6>of two boys. She was taken to the killer's sex

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00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:19.799
<v Speaker 6>den raped repeatedly and then driven to a secluded spot

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<v Speaker 6>and shot to death. Now, the case had a particularly

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00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:24.600
<v Speaker 6>sad angle in that Denise, who was the daughter of

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<v Speaker 6>a cop and really smart, managed to get a hold

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<v Speaker 6>of her abductor's cell phone. She called nine one one

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00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:35.360
<v Speaker 6>and gave a real time account of her predicament. Incredible,

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00:16:35.559 --> 00:16:39.600
<v Speaker 6>and at the same time, fellow motorists who saw Denise

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00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:43.080
<v Speaker 6>in the car in obvious distress called nine one one

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<v Speaker 6>and told the location of the car in real time

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<v Speaker 6>to the nine one one operator. But as fate would

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<v Speaker 6>have it, the nine one one operators shift was almost over.

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<v Speaker 6>She failed to absorb the import of what she was hearing, apparently,

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<v Speaker 6>and Denise went unsaved. Between the time that Denise was

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<v Speaker 6>abducted and when she was killed, police received six nine

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<v Speaker 6>one one calls, but by the time Michael King's car

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<v Speaker 6>was stopped, he was alone and there was blood splatter

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<v Speaker 6>on the car. Michael King, King Creep as I call him,

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<v Speaker 6>grew up in Michigan was not a terribly bright fellow.

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<v Speaker 6>He had for years managed to make a living as

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<v Speaker 6>a handyman and a plumber, and for the past couple

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<v Speaker 6>of years things had been on the downturn for him.

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<v Speaker 6>In two thousand and eight, when this happened, his life

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<v Speaker 6>was a mess. He was thirty seven years old, divorced

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<v Speaker 6>with custody of a son. You could no longer afford

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<v Speaker 6>dating a series of unusually small blonde women, some of

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<v Speaker 6>them riddled with dysfunction, but all of them looked younger

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<v Speaker 6>than they were, and it was getting harder and harder

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<v Speaker 6>for him to find real work. Who was facing foreclosure

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<v Speaker 6>on his north Port home. He had already had his

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<v Speaker 6>apartment emptied a furniture by one of his exes, So

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<v Speaker 6>he's angry with the women he dated, all of whom

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<v Speaker 6>were diminutive blondes. He was a pervert, and he didn't

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<v Speaker 6>go out of his way to hide it. He liked

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<v Speaker 6>pretending his girlfriends were really young and he did not

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<v Speaker 6>have a criminal history. But when the monster with him

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00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:12.680
<v Speaker 6>came out, it came out big time. His financial worries

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00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:15.759
<v Speaker 6>and his girlfriend troubles combined into an intense anger with

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00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.279
<v Speaker 6>a strong sexual component. In an frustration, he decided he

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<v Speaker 6>was going to steal a woman and take what he wanted.

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<v Speaker 6>But as it turned out, he stole the wrong woman

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<v Speaker 6>by Denise calling nine one one on the killer's phone. Uh,

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<v Speaker 6>there's no better evidence, is there?

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00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:32.400
<v Speaker 2>Now?

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<v Speaker 5>You have a story called a dark stretch of road

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<v Speaker 5>with someone called Mike. Is it Mike Tyson or tissand

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<v Speaker 5>Gary Gary Tyson, Gary, Oh, pardon me sorry anyway.

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<v Speaker 6>Dark Mike Tyson has enough troubles me.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I was gonna say, sure, yes, a dark stretch

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<v Speaker 5>of road in it. This is certainly even more horrifying

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<v Speaker 5>in some of the better known stories.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, this is terrible. Gary Tyson, his violent escape from

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<v Speaker 6>prison and his subsequent run from the law not only

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<v Speaker 6>turned out to be his ruin, but the ruin of

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<v Speaker 6>his entire family. He and his Dorothy had three sons, Donald,

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<v Speaker 6>Ricky and Raymond. Gary was better at stealing than at working.

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<v Speaker 6>In March nineteen sixty one, he went on a two

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<v Speaker 6>week crime spreek Hell, bent on making some quick cash,

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<v Speaker 6>and in the end he was arrested trying to steal

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<v Speaker 6>weapons from a local National Guard armory. He had planned

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<v Speaker 6>on smuggling the guns into Mexico to sell, but he

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<v Speaker 6>was convicted and given a twenty five year sentence. Dorothy

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00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:39.759
<v Speaker 6>remained completely under his spell and continued to see Gary

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<v Speaker 6>as a wonderful husband and dedicated father who was a

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<v Speaker 6>victim of an unjustice and he'd been framed and he

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00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:49.759
<v Speaker 6>was actually a nice man. She told friends and family

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<v Speaker 6>what a great dad Gary was. He called home every

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<v Speaker 6>day to check on their progress and the guide their

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<v Speaker 6>lives with his wisdom. And the three boys, who were

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<v Speaker 6>inseparable growing up not only close in age, but they

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<v Speaker 6>felt like they were outsiders in their community due to

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<v Speaker 6>the fact that Dad was away. On July nineteen sixty six,

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<v Speaker 6>it happens to be the same month that Richard Spec

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<v Speaker 6>did his thing. Gary was released early, serving only five

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<v Speaker 6>of the twenty five years he'd been sentenced to, but

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<v Speaker 6>he didn't stay out for long. He went back in

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<v Speaker 6>for passing a bad check, and while he was being

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<v Speaker 6>taken from the court to the prison, he shot and

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<v Speaker 6>killed correctional officer Jim Steiner, a crime for which he

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<v Speaker 6>was sentenced to life in prison. Now Dorothy constantly reminded

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<v Speaker 6>that her children their father was actually a victim. He

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<v Speaker 6>only shot that security guard for self defense, and the

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<v Speaker 6>boys grew up thinking that their dad was wonderful, and

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<v Speaker 6>when he asked them to help him escape from prison,

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<v Speaker 6>they agreed to do it, and that happened in nineteen

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<v Speaker 6>seventy eight. Now also escaping with Gary into the US

385
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<v Speaker 6>Southwest and was another hardcore criminal named Brandy Greenwald. Greenoald,

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<v Speaker 6>Gary Tyson, and the three brothers went on the lamb

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<v Speaker 6>together and the idea was to frequently switch vehicles, stay

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00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:12.000
<v Speaker 6>ahead of stay ahead of the man. But twice when

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<v Speaker 6>they switched vehicles, Gary and Greenowald, to the horror of

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00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:19.920
<v Speaker 6>Tyson's sons, killed the owners of the car and their families,

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00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:24.680
<v Speaker 6>which included a baby and his mother, both shot through

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00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:28.480
<v Speaker 6>the head by Gary tysonredible. So at this point the

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00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:31.680
<v Speaker 6>boys know that this lifelong delusion they've been living under

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<v Speaker 6>the dad's a good guy, has been shattered, but they're

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00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:38.640
<v Speaker 6>stuck with him, and he arranges its so that he

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00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:40.640
<v Speaker 6>or Greenowald is with one of the boys at all.

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<v Speaker 6>They're never allowed three of them to be together, and

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<v Speaker 6>eventually a roadblock does them in. The oldest son is

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00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:49.839
<v Speaker 6>shot to death. Gary runs off into the desert and

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<v Speaker 6>dies of exposure. Every man for himself are his last words?

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<v Speaker 6>Must have felt great to it. The boys who adored

402
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.920
<v Speaker 6>him and his two sons went to prison for life

403
00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:03.200
<v Speaker 6>for crimes that they never would have committed in a

404
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<v Speaker 6>million years if they hadn't loved their dad.

405
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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, you follow this up with another heartwarming family you

406
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:16.160
<v Speaker 5>call family of Terror and the Sherman McCrary and the

407
00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:22.519
<v Speaker 5>unholy alliance that forms. Please tell us about Family of Terror.

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, Well, Sherman McCrary and his partner in crime, his

409
00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:30.799
<v Speaker 6>son in law, Carl Taylor. They had a specialty during

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<v Speaker 6>the nineteen seventies. While their families passed bad checks and

411
00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:36.920
<v Speaker 6>made money, they would go out late at night and

412
00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:41.759
<v Speaker 6>hold up donut shops roadside donut shops, preferably those with

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00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:45.680
<v Speaker 6>a cute waitress working alone. They would take the money

414
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:49.319
<v Speaker 6>and the waitress, after which she would be raped by

415
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:53.079
<v Speaker 6>both men and killed in a deserted place. After each murder,

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00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:55.519
<v Speaker 6>the family would up and move to another area and

417
00:22:55.640 --> 00:23:01.000
<v Speaker 6>the process would begin again, and police never connection between

418
00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:03.960
<v Speaker 6>the murders of the doughnut girls and the bad checks

419
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:07.039
<v Speaker 6>being passed. It took a while before they realized that

420
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:09.480
<v Speaker 6>those two things went together and this was a family

421
00:23:09.799 --> 00:23:12.200
<v Speaker 6>doing these crimes. But once they got in the habit,

422
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:15.640
<v Speaker 6>McCrary and Taylor were killing two or three women per month.

423
00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:19.599
<v Speaker 6>The murder that undid them was the murder of twenty

424
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:24.359
<v Speaker 6>year old Leora Rose Looney on August twentieth, nineteen seventy one,

425
00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.720
<v Speaker 6>the men sat in a diner, drank coffee and waited

426
00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:30.759
<v Speaker 6>for the other customers to leave, and as soon as

427
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.599
<v Speaker 6>they were alone with the girl behind the counter, Leora,

428
00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:36.480
<v Speaker 6>they did their thing. They took the money from the

429
00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:39.559
<v Speaker 6>cash register, They stole Leora, they took out in the

430
00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:42.960
<v Speaker 6>Wilners to be raped and then killed, and one witness

431
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:47.079
<v Speaker 6>the next day returns to the scene and tells the

432
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:50.839
<v Speaker 6>police the coffee cup on the counter, that one right there,

433
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:53.920
<v Speaker 6>that was the one that was being used by those

434
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:58.079
<v Speaker 6>creepy guys. So they dust the cup for fingerprints, and

435
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:02.519
<v Speaker 6>perfect fingerprints show. So the killers eventually decide that they're

436
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:05.039
<v Speaker 6>going to go straight, But it turns out that Sherman

437
00:24:05.079 --> 00:24:07.519
<v Speaker 6>and Carl can only get along when they're doing crimes.

438
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:09.319
<v Speaker 6>The second that they try to do anything in the

439
00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:12.359
<v Speaker 6>legitimate world, they hate each other's guts. So Carl goes

440
00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:15.319
<v Speaker 6>out to rob a supermarket by himself, and it's a disaster.

441
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:18.720
<v Speaker 6>He doesn't get nearly all the money. He ends up

442
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.240
<v Speaker 6>shooting and wounding a cop in the parking lot making

443
00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:25.480
<v Speaker 6>his getaway, and witnesses get his license plate, and by

444
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:27.680
<v Speaker 6>the end of the evening, a full swat team is

445
00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:30.920
<v Speaker 6>at the Mercrari family home. Carl and his wife Ginger

446
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:34.400
<v Speaker 6>are arrested in Texas soon thereafter, on June twenty fourth,

447
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:37.759
<v Speaker 6>nineteen seventy two, and the fingerprint from the coffee cup

448
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:41.880
<v Speaker 6>matches Carl's prince. So Carl and Sherman ended up confessing

449
00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:44.079
<v Speaker 6>to seven murders, although the belief is that there were

450
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.079
<v Speaker 6>many more, and Sherman ended up committing suicide in prison.

451
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:55.039
<v Speaker 5>Interesting. Another story that involves a family, but in different

452
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:59.000
<v Speaker 5>circumstances is the murder of Craig ride Out. Tell us

453
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:01.920
<v Speaker 5>a little bit about this murder of Craig ride Out.

454
00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:04.680
<v Speaker 6>Well, you know, I love to write about crimes in

455
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:07.039
<v Speaker 6>the New York, in the Rochester, New York area, so

456
00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:09.200
<v Speaker 6>it was my hometown when I grew up, and this

457
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:11.559
<v Speaker 6>one was a big It dominated the headlines for months.

458
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.400
<v Speaker 6>Starts about eleven pm Tuesday evening, July nineteenth, twenty sixteen.

459
00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:20.039
<v Speaker 6>Fifty year old Craig ride Out of Penfield, New York,

460
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:24.559
<v Speaker 6>one of the nicer suburbs of Rochester. He was last

461
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:27.720
<v Speaker 6>scene in his townhouse on New Wickham Drive, and he

462
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:31.799
<v Speaker 6>apparently vanished. He was an information technology specialist making good

463
00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:35.839
<v Speaker 6>money and also missing was his car and he's reported

464
00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:39.319
<v Speaker 6>missing by his sister on Wednesday morning, And at five

465
00:25:39.319 --> 00:25:42.400
<v Speaker 6>point thirty Wednesday morning, a mena night farmer named Lowell Weaver,

466
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:45.359
<v Speaker 6>is on his bicycle in the town of Jerusalem, New York,

467
00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:48.079
<v Speaker 6>near Penyan and he's on his way to do his

468
00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:51.359
<v Speaker 6>farm shores and up ahead, as he peddled along the

469
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:54.440
<v Speaker 6>shoulder of the road, we received two vehicles parked alongside

470
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:56.880
<v Speaker 6>Adams Road. Because he nears the vehicles, he saw two

471
00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:00.480
<v Speaker 6>figures having a discussion, each standing between the cars. He

472
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:03.079
<v Speaker 6>sped up and heard their voices, but he couldn't understand

473
00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:06.000
<v Speaker 6>any words. Later that morning, he's coming back on his

474
00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:12.079
<v Speaker 6>breakfast to break Farmers have breakfast breaks and the cars

475
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:14.680
<v Speaker 6>aren't there anymore. But he sees a shovel lining by

476
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:18.440
<v Speaker 6>the side of the road and some crumpled down weeds.

477
00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:21.599
<v Speaker 6>So he follows the smash down weeds into the woods

478
00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:25.440
<v Speaker 6>and he sees a tarpaulint. He lifts the tarpaulint and

479
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:27.880
<v Speaker 6>what he sees sends a chill running up and down

480
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:31.279
<v Speaker 6>his spine. It's a bare human foot. So we dropped

481
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:35.519
<v Speaker 6>the tarp ran, got on his bike and called the police.

482
00:26:35.799 --> 00:26:39.039
<v Speaker 6>Please find a small hole had been dug nearby, and

483
00:26:39.160 --> 00:26:41.279
<v Speaker 6>it looked as if someone had intended to bury a

484
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:44.039
<v Speaker 6>body but found it too hard and gave up and

485
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.279
<v Speaker 6>covered the body with the tarp instead. The deputies removed

486
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:51.160
<v Speaker 6>the tarp to completely expose the body, and they winced

487
00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:56.119
<v Speaker 6>at the face because the killers had used a corrosive

488
00:26:56.359 --> 00:27:00.960
<v Speaker 6>drain cleaner to eat away the victim's face hope, hopefully

489
00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:07.519
<v Speaker 6>posthumously and most likely to delay identification. Garrett had been

490
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:09.960
<v Speaker 6>used to choke the life out of the man, and

491
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:12.559
<v Speaker 6>the medical examiner later confirmed that the cause of death

492
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:16.440
<v Speaker 6>was asphyxiation. Now, the deputies at the scene are stunned

493
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:20.240
<v Speaker 6>because this effort has been made to slow the identification

494
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:23.480
<v Speaker 6>of the victim. And while they're looking at it, a

495
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:27.240
<v Speaker 6>phone goes off and the phone is in the shorts

496
00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:32.240
<v Speaker 6>pocket of the victim. Wow, how stupid could the killer there?

497
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:35.640
<v Speaker 6>They're not dealing with murdering here, obviously. They answer the

498
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:39.480
<v Speaker 6>phone and it's Craig's sisters saying we're looking for Craig.

499
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:41.960
<v Speaker 6>We're worried we can't find him. And the cops say,

500
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:45.000
<v Speaker 6>we think we think we may know where he is.

501
00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:48.519
<v Speaker 6>So and while they're wondering, who would be stupid enough

502
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:50.759
<v Speaker 6>to remove the guy's face but leave the phone in

503
00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:55.079
<v Speaker 6>his pocket. Authorities had no trouble tracing this back to

504
00:27:55.960 --> 00:28:04.279
<v Speaker 6>Craig's family, another lovely family. His estranged wife, Laura, is

505
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:08.000
<v Speaker 6>trying to get a divorce. There's a nasty custody battle

506
00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:10.720
<v Speaker 6>going on for the youngest children, and she wants to

507
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:13.799
<v Speaker 6>run away with her new boyfriend and they pull out

508
00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:17.720
<v Speaker 6>of a pond in mending ponds in the Rochester area,

509
00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:22.200
<v Speaker 6>a black bag that contains work gloves, disinfectant, and six

510
00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:25.279
<v Speaker 6>empty bottles of drain cleaner, all of which can be

511
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:29.880
<v Speaker 6>traced to Laura's sons. And there's a trial, and the

512
00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:34.799
<v Speaker 6>trial mixsed the front pages every day in Rochester, and

513
00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:39.559
<v Speaker 6>the two sons, the wife, and the wife's boyfriend are

514
00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:43.599
<v Speaker 6>all tried together, and as it turns out, all of

515
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:49.599
<v Speaker 6>the evidence incriminating the boyfriend are acquisition of the materials

516
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:53.200
<v Speaker 6>used in the crime. He was there when Laura bought

517
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:56.599
<v Speaker 6>the draino and the bungee cords and the tarp, but

518
00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:00.400
<v Speaker 6>there was no evidence whatsoever that he knew what that's was.

519
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:04.559
<v Speaker 6>Four right, So the wife and the two sons are convicted,

520
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:08.119
<v Speaker 6>and the boyfriend was absolutely acquitted. And we don't even

521
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:10.759
<v Speaker 6>use his name in the book because he's free. He's

522
00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:13.400
<v Speaker 6>an innocent man, free to go about his life without

523
00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:13.799
<v Speaker 6>an intent.

524
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:17.240
<v Speaker 5>It's incredible. Let's use this as an opportunity to stop

525
00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:21.640
<v Speaker 5>to hear about our sponsor, which is Talkspace. It's January

526
00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:24.359
<v Speaker 5>twenty twenty two and we all struggle to try to

527
00:29:24.440 --> 00:29:28.359
<v Speaker 5>stick to our New Year's resolutions this year. Make your

528
00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:33.200
<v Speaker 5>mental health part of your daily routine with Talkspace. Talkspace

529
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.119
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530
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:40.039
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531
00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:44.119
<v Speaker 5>New Year's was resolutions are a great idea, but therapy

532
00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:47.359
<v Speaker 5>can give you the confidence to keep positive and progressing

533
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:50.839
<v Speaker 5>with your mental health throughout the year. Talking to a

534
00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:54.240
<v Speaker 5>therapist has helped me immensely in the past, and everyone,

535
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:58.599
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536
00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:04.799
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537
00:30:04.839 --> 00:30:08.960
<v Speaker 5>of licensed therapists across dozens of specialties ready to speak

538
00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:13.359
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539
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:17.759
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540
00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:21.880
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541
00:30:22.039 --> 00:30:28.240
<v Speaker 5>and security being Talkspace's priorities. Whether it's depression, anxiety, self doubt,

542
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:32.319
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543
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:35.480
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544
00:30:35.799 --> 00:30:39.200
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545
00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:44.000
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546
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547
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548
00:30:50.359 --> 00:30:57.480
<v Speaker 5>dollars off at talkspace dot com promo code true Murder. Now, Michael,

549
00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:01.480
<v Speaker 5>we were talking about another story that you have included

550
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:06.200
<v Speaker 5>in this incredible thirteen horrific true Stories. Tell us a

551
00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:10.160
<v Speaker 5>little bit about this savage waitress Rachel Wade.

552
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:13.240
<v Speaker 6>Oh boy, you know, I covered this story a few

553
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:17.319
<v Speaker 6>years back, and it still kind of gets to me

554
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:22.599
<v Speaker 6>because it involves it the young people of Penelas Park, Florida,

555
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.799
<v Speaker 6>just had a lot of problems thirteen, fourteen years ago,

556
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:31.200
<v Speaker 6>and it demonstrates that adolescent behavior can be turned into

557
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:34.559
<v Speaker 6>a pressure cooker by social media. It's the story of

558
00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:38.839
<v Speaker 6>Rachel Wade, who's the savage waitress who kills Sarah Ludeman,

559
00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:43.240
<v Speaker 6>a high school senior, over Josh Camacho, who's anair do

560
00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:48.000
<v Speaker 6>well young man who likes to have a lot of girlfriends. Yeah,

561
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:53.960
<v Speaker 6>and Sarah and Rachel were trading insults online. And the

562
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:55.880
<v Speaker 6>story is old enough. So this is my space. It's

563
00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:01.759
<v Speaker 6>pre Facebook. But in a previous generation hours, for example,

564
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:04.839
<v Speaker 6>two girls who were having a war of words with

565
00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:08.839
<v Speaker 6>each other would have cooling off periods because they would

566
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:13.599
<v Speaker 6>physically separate. You would have to call on the phone

567
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:16.119
<v Speaker 6>in order to talk to the other, and who knows

568
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:20.160
<v Speaker 6>if they'd answer. But with social media, there's no way

569
00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:23.839
<v Speaker 6>for the pressure to release, and things amp up quickly.

570
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:28.880
<v Speaker 6>And the other factor is that because the messages were

571
00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:32.680
<v Speaker 6>put on social networks, they were in essence insulting one

572
00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:40.160
<v Speaker 6>another in public right. So anger is increased tenfold by

573
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:46.079
<v Speaker 6>humiliation embarrassment, and the case continues to build until there

574
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:47.440
<v Speaker 6>was a fight in the middle of the street. It

575
00:32:47.559 --> 00:32:50.119
<v Speaker 6>was supposed to be a fistfight, but Rachel pulls out

576
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:52.680
<v Speaker 6>a kitchen knife and stabs Sarah to death with it.

577
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:56.480
<v Speaker 6>There are four eyewitnesses to the stabbing to on either side,

578
00:32:56.759 --> 00:32:59.880
<v Speaker 6>and their stories, of course, are very different. Rachel's friends

579
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:04.359
<v Speaker 6>spoke of a small woman, Rachel's tiny defending herself against

580
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:07.000
<v Speaker 6>three larger women who had all jumped out of a

581
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:10.559
<v Speaker 6>van together and came at her all at once. Sarah's

582
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:14.519
<v Speaker 6>friends spoke of Rachel charging at Sarah and immediately plunging

583
00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:17.559
<v Speaker 6>the kitchen knife into Sarah's chest and until it all

584
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:21.319
<v Speaker 6>fell apart. Josh Camacho had his ducks in a row.

585
00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:25.119
<v Speaker 6>In terms of scheduling, his girlfriends were perfectly complimentary to

586
00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:27.720
<v Speaker 6>each other. Sarah was a high school girl with a

587
00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:31.440
<v Speaker 6>curfew she had to be home early. Rachel was a

588
00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:35.039
<v Speaker 6>restaurant waitress who wasn't available until late. Camacho was a

589
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:39.920
<v Speaker 6>constant player. Considered both Rachel and Sarah as friends with benefits,

590
00:33:41.160 --> 00:33:43.880
<v Speaker 6>and most people understand that phrase to mean a non

591
00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:50.319
<v Speaker 6>romantic sexual relationship with no pretensions of monogamy, but nobody

592
00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:53.960
<v Speaker 6>told that to Rachel and Sarah now. In terms of

593
00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:58.200
<v Speaker 6>their personalities, sexual and otherwise, the women were also complimentary.

594
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:01.880
<v Speaker 6>Rachel was a cute you know apple She worked at Applebee's.

595
00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:06.000
<v Speaker 6>She had a wild lifestyle. She was a sexual experimenter,

596
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:09.400
<v Speaker 6>and she was unfortunately as intense out of the sack

597
00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:12.480
<v Speaker 6>as she was in. Whereas the much larger Sarah, you know,

598
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:15.440
<v Speaker 6>she'd been a heavy girl when she was young, and

599
00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:18.360
<v Speaker 6>she was kind of a late bloomer, and she was

600
00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:20.440
<v Speaker 6>new to the world of sex and needed to be taught.

601
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:24.119
<v Speaker 6>So she switched schools to be closer to Josh Camachu,

602
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:31.159
<v Speaker 6>and she adored him completely for reasons that befuddle adults everywhere. Now,

603
00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:35.360
<v Speaker 6>a large contributor to this entire tragedy was opiate addiction.

604
00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:39.559
<v Speaker 6>Right a frightening number of the city's young people were

605
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:44.559
<v Speaker 6>addicted to an opiate painkiller they called roxies, and the

606
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:48.199
<v Speaker 6>brand name was roxy Codo, apparently the same as oxy Codo.

607
00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:51.559
<v Speaker 6>There are blue pills, and the kids called them blues.

608
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:55.840
<v Speaker 6>There had been a major theft at a pharmaceutical warehouse

609
00:34:56.400 --> 00:35:00.719
<v Speaker 6>and hundreds of thousands of pills were swiped, one crime

610
00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:05.079
<v Speaker 6>that caused a tragic wave of serious drug addiction throughout Florida,

611
00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:09.880
<v Speaker 6>and kids taking the pills were completely unaware that they're

612
00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:13.519
<v Speaker 6>becoming addicted to the same active substance there was in Harrowing.

613
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:16.519
<v Speaker 6>They just they made them feel good that pretty soon

614
00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:19.840
<v Speaker 6>they needed more pills. So girls got hooked, and soon

615
00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:24.039
<v Speaker 6>enough they owed a debt to their male suppliers. Now

616
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:28.400
<v Speaker 6>there's a tendency for young people to feel immortal. They

617
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:32.280
<v Speaker 6>don't feel anxiety about danger the same way adults do.

618
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:36.599
<v Speaker 6>They're careless, They're reckless, and that natural tendency was exasperated

619
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:40.440
<v Speaker 6>by the roxies, which further removed inhibitions and created a

620
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:42.320
<v Speaker 6>pain free illusion of euphoria.

621
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Too.

622
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:48.079
<v Speaker 6>Many of Penel's parks, teenage girls were skipping school, hanging

623
00:35:48.119 --> 00:35:51.239
<v Speaker 6>out with their older boyfriends, taking drugs, having sex, and

624
00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:55.239
<v Speaker 6>making babies. Well, why was Rachel the way she was? Well,

625
00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:59.440
<v Speaker 6>her home appeared normal, devastated, devastated by what had occurred,

626
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:04.000
<v Speaker 6>but completely confused as to the reason. One thing, though

627
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:09.320
<v Speaker 6>the Wades had a reluctance to discuss Rachel's older brother,

628
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:13.039
<v Speaker 6>who is estranged from the family, Rachel seldom mentioned her brother,

629
00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:16.679
<v Speaker 6>other than to say she hated him. Now, according to

630
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:21.039
<v Speaker 6>New Jersey psychological counselor Kathy Morelli, there's a change in

631
00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:24.480
<v Speaker 6>brain chemistry that happens to people, and they have sex

632
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:30.960
<v Speaker 6>of biological attachment forms and brain changes they shared experience produced.

633
00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:35.039
<v Speaker 6>They cause potent emotions, causing normally mild people to resort

634
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:38.880
<v Speaker 6>to violence, And there was nothing normally mild about Rachel.

635
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:39.159
<v Speaker 2>Now.

636
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:43.320
<v Speaker 6>Teenagers aren't adults, obviously, so it's a strong yet immature

637
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:47.000
<v Speaker 6>attachment that they have with their sex partners. Passion stirs

638
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:52.199
<v Speaker 6>up primal possessiveness, and psychologists agree that there's a strong

639
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:56.559
<v Speaker 6>chance that Rachel had problems at home. Most teen girls

640
00:36:56.639 --> 00:36:58.760
<v Speaker 6>don't drop out of school and run away from home

641
00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:02.960
<v Speaker 6>repeatedly because of an unwanted curfew. As for the cyber bully,

642
00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:06.280
<v Speaker 6>and the mental health specialist I spoke to agreed that

643
00:37:06.440 --> 00:37:11.199
<v Speaker 6>parents should have a monitor on their child's smartphones and computers,

644
00:37:11.559 --> 00:37:14.920
<v Speaker 6>and they should check in silently to see what was

645
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:18.199
<v Speaker 6>being said in their child's world. They need to know

646
00:37:18.760 --> 00:37:22.400
<v Speaker 6>that even though it's a virtual world, it's a real

647
00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:27.639
<v Speaker 6>place with real feelings being created, not imaginary cyber threats.

648
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:33.280
<v Speaker 6>These things can turn into real violence. You know, Sarah's

649
00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:37.000
<v Speaker 6>friends served as the virtual bully, egging her and Rachel

650
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:41.800
<v Speaker 6>on and in teenage navete. The Sarah camp thought it

651
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:45.800
<v Speaker 6>wasn't real and no violence would occur, but boy did it. Ever.

652
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:48.440
<v Speaker 6>There was a moment during the trial that was just

653
00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:51.760
<v Speaker 6>amazing because Rachel was put on the stand in her

654
00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:56.360
<v Speaker 6>own defense, and once she was doing her direct testimony,

655
00:37:56.400 --> 00:38:01.559
<v Speaker 6>everything went swell because her lawyer led her through her

656
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:04.679
<v Speaker 6>testimony almost word by word, you know, she was in fear,

657
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:07.000
<v Speaker 6>she was attacked by three girls at once. She follow

658
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:11.840
<v Speaker 6>weapon was necessary. Well, cross examination was a different story,

659
00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:16.440
<v Speaker 6>and the prosecutor just lit into her and pretty soon

660
00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:19.159
<v Speaker 6>had her in tears and babbling, saying things like I

661
00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:25.440
<v Speaker 6>didn't mean to murder her, and yes, I threatened to

662
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:28.480
<v Speaker 6>kill her, and then I carried out my threat. So anyway,

663
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:32.519
<v Speaker 6>she's she's in prison for a long time, and from

664
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:38.159
<v Speaker 6>her latest Department of Corrections mugshot, you know, the twinkle

665
00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:41.599
<v Speaker 6>of youthful cuteness she used to have is now gone.

666
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:42.760
<v Speaker 6>She's just a con.

667
00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:48.239
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, you talk about another interesting family dynamic with the

668
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:53.000
<v Speaker 5>tail tale. Not tell us about all identical twins and

669
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:55.440
<v Speaker 5>the mayhem that ensues.

670
00:38:56.239 --> 00:38:59.639
<v Speaker 6>All right, Well, I've known for a while the killers

671
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:04.519
<v Speaker 6>who are into bondage often have a specific preference when

672
00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:07.320
<v Speaker 6>it comes to the knots. They use men with a

673
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:12.719
<v Speaker 6>bondage fetish. They're particular. Their ropework becomes like a signature, right,

674
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:16.119
<v Speaker 6>And many fetishes for men are symptoms of being afraid

675
00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:19.760
<v Speaker 6>of women. Whether this is another case where the victim

676
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:24.760
<v Speaker 6>is a very tiny blonde woman, now, whether it be

677
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:28.760
<v Speaker 6>bondage or in which a master ties up a slave,

678
00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:32.440
<v Speaker 6>and renders are helpless or pedophilia in which men desire

679
00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:35.480
<v Speaker 6>small girls or small women who look like small girls.

680
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:40.320
<v Speaker 6>The resulting sensation of power and complete control is a perk.

681
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:43.119
<v Speaker 6>But the bottom line is that these things make the

682
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:47.960
<v Speaker 6>man aroused yet unafraid. Now, the thing with the knots

683
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:52.239
<v Speaker 6>being a signature was true in the BTK case Dennis

684
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:55.239
<v Speaker 6>Raider in Wichita, Kansas call himself buying torture and kill,

685
00:39:56.119 --> 00:39:58.039
<v Speaker 6>and it was true in the case of Richard Cottingham,

686
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:00.519
<v Speaker 6>whose story was told in a recent ne flick show

687
00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:04.320
<v Speaker 6>Times Square. You've seen it, Yeah, really good. Yes, and

688
00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:07.280
<v Speaker 6>it's true in this case as well. Our story takes

689
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:12.039
<v Speaker 6>place in Edgewater, Colorado. It's a sleepy suburbs on Sloan

690
00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:16.000
<v Speaker 6>Lake just west of Denver, population about five thousand, and

691
00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:19.280
<v Speaker 6>the place resembled a picture postcard three hundred days of

692
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:23.760
<v Speaker 6>sunshiny year. Everyone knew everyone, and nobody locked their doors.

693
00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:26.840
<v Speaker 6>But on the afternoon of September fourth, two thousand and three,

694
00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:31.280
<v Speaker 6>that sense of security was shaded. A highway worker was

695
00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:34.519
<v Speaker 6>picking up debris in a front loader alongside Highway six

696
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:38.480
<v Speaker 6>in Clear Creek Canyon when he made a puzzling discovery.

697
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:41.360
<v Speaker 6>It was a plastic bag with something sticking out of it,

698
00:40:41.719 --> 00:40:43.679
<v Speaker 6>and when he hopped down to take a closer look,

699
00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:47.239
<v Speaker 6>he saw it was a decomposing woman's leg. The man

700
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:51.559
<v Speaker 6>immediately called nine one one. Police arrived and determined that

701
00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:53.920
<v Speaker 6>the woman had died in a bizarre and sadistic way,

702
00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:56.440
<v Speaker 6>something out of a horror movie. She was tied up

703
00:40:56.519 --> 00:41:00.639
<v Speaker 6>tightly with rope and her face was masked with duct tape.

704
00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:03.880
<v Speaker 6>Now the body was identified as that of Heather de Wilde,

705
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:07.280
<v Speaker 6>a young wife and mother who had been reported missing

706
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:10.400
<v Speaker 6>six weeks earlier. The story had been big news, her

707
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:12.840
<v Speaker 6>face had been on TV and the front page of

708
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:15.800
<v Speaker 6>the papers. Now, her husband was a piece of work.

709
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:20.760
<v Speaker 6>He was one half of twins, identical twins. He was Daniel,

710
00:41:20.920 --> 00:41:24.920
<v Speaker 6>his brother was David. They were both porn addicts. Daniel

711
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:30.960
<v Speaker 6>in particular enjoyed looking at S ANDM porn, which featured

712
00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:34.800
<v Speaker 6>women being hurt and bound. He'd gone as far as

713
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:38.199
<v Speaker 6>to try to make money by making his own SNM

714
00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:45.760
<v Speaker 6>video with his wife as the victim. Anyway, and that

715
00:41:46.039 --> 00:41:48.400
<v Speaker 6>turned out to be his undoing because it looked like

716
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:51.599
<v Speaker 6>the twins were going to get away with the murder

717
00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:55.440
<v Speaker 6>until investigators took a close look at the porn movie

718
00:41:55.880 --> 00:41:59.400
<v Speaker 6>that Daniel de Wilde had made, and the knots in

719
00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:04.000
<v Speaker 6>the movie we're exactly the same as the knots on

720
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:06.960
<v Speaker 6>the woman's body busted.

721
00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:11.559
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, that's another example of people. I've seen quite a

722
00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:18.320
<v Speaker 5>few examples more and more often of people getting justice

723
00:42:18.760 --> 00:42:24.599
<v Speaker 5>via from the grave basically through their efforts, or from

724
00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:29.840
<v Speaker 5>the grave anyway, getting their justice from being a victim.

725
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:32.079
<v Speaker 6>Can't do anything else. Scratch the guy's face.

726
00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:35.480
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, absolutely incredible. Let's use this as an opportunity to

727
00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:37.079
<v Speaker 5>stop for a second for these messages.

728
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:38.760
<v Speaker 6>Sure, step into the.

729
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:42.440
<v Speaker 1>World of power, loyalty, and luck.

730
00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:45.079
<v Speaker 4>I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse.

731
00:42:45.159 --> 00:42:49.199
<v Speaker 4>With family, canolis and spins mean everything.

732
00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:51.960
<v Speaker 2>Now you want to get mixed up in the family business.

733
00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:56.039
<v Speaker 2>Introducing the Godfather at Champa Casino dot com.

734
00:42:56.639 --> 00:42:59.920
<v Speaker 4>Test your luck in the shadowy world of the Godfather's slime.

735
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:02.480
<v Speaker 2>Some day I will call upon you to do a

736
00:43:02.559 --> 00:43:03.199
<v Speaker 2>service with me.

737
00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:06.119
<v Speaker 4>Play the Godfather now at Chumpa Casino dot com.

738
00:43:06.199 --> 00:43:08.519
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Family vdW group.

739
00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:09.280
<v Speaker 6>No perches necessary.

740
00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:11.039
<v Speaker 1>If we were privateed by loss he terms and conditions

741
00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:11.800
<v Speaker 1>eighteen plus.

742
00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:15.440
<v Speaker 5>Now let's talk about let's talk about a few thoughts

743
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:18.360
<v Speaker 5>on the Black Dahalia, because you felt it important to

744
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:22.519
<v Speaker 5>talk about that, and of course we'd like to hear

745
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:22.920
<v Speaker 5>about that.

746
00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:26.840
<v Speaker 6>Well, I'm sure that you know ninety percent of your

747
00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:31.280
<v Speaker 6>listeners know about the Black Dallia. Yes, and you gave

748
00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:34.400
<v Speaker 6>a little synopsis at the beginning of the show. But

749
00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:38.360
<v Speaker 6>I tribated it not as a crime but as a

750
00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:44.760
<v Speaker 6>true crime phenomena, because well, with the exception of political

751
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:49.920
<v Speaker 6>assassinations and the deaths of celebrities, I can think of

752
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:52.880
<v Speaker 6>no single crime that has been written about more than

753
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:56.920
<v Speaker 6>the Black Daly heard. The murder of Elizabeth Short nineteen

754
00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:01.000
<v Speaker 6>forty seven changed the tone of La. La went from

755
00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:06.960
<v Speaker 6>being a overgrown little town where people felt safe to

756
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:12.159
<v Speaker 6>just a horrible a place where this horrible thing happened.

757
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:18.239
<v Speaker 6>And again, the victim was a woman who came to

758
00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:24.199
<v Speaker 6>La to find fame and fortune and instead found brutal death.

759
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:30.719
<v Speaker 6>And she'd been found and tortured for days before her death.

760
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:33.239
<v Speaker 6>Now I've read I think every one of the books

761
00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:36.119
<v Speaker 6>written about the Black dalli right, and I was never

762
00:44:36.280 --> 00:44:39.880
<v Speaker 6>ever happy. Two unrelated authors both claimed that their dad

763
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:42.000
<v Speaker 6>was the killer. Yes, one of them had a better

764
00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:43.920
<v Speaker 6>case than the other, but neither one of them had

765
00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:48.400
<v Speaker 6>that gradud case. And then I read Black Dahlia Red

766
00:44:48.519 --> 00:44:52.559
<v Speaker 6>Rose by Pwee twelve and I don't know if you've

767
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:56.679
<v Speaker 6>had her on your show, No missus Eatwell who She

768
00:44:57.039 --> 00:44:59.360
<v Speaker 6>lives in Paris. I had a chat with her. She

769
00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:04.719
<v Speaker 6>was watching Saint Peter's burn out her window. Yes, you know,

770
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:07.719
<v Speaker 6>we saw it on TV. I thought it was horrible.

771
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:10.199
<v Speaker 6>She was looking out a window at it, so I said, well,

772
00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:12.039
<v Speaker 6>it was me on nine to eleven. I got to

773
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:16.760
<v Speaker 6>see that out my window. But anyway, lovely lady. But

774
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:20.159
<v Speaker 6>she wrote a book that that didn't seem to rely

775
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:23.840
<v Speaker 6>on any of her relatives, didn't rely on any LA

776
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:28.400
<v Speaker 6>celebrities to sell books. She went to the LA police

777
00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:33.840
<v Speaker 6>files and she dug out the truth. And I don't

778
00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:37.719
<v Speaker 6>understand why her book isn't more famous. I was tempted

779
00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:40.360
<v Speaker 6>to write a book about the Black Dahlia until her

780
00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:42.800
<v Speaker 6>book came out. Now I don't have to. She did

781
00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:46.760
<v Speaker 6>the work. She found two promising suspects who were, for

782
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:53.039
<v Speaker 6>no apparent reason allowed to escape, and upon closer examination,

783
00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:58.800
<v Speaker 6>the pair a narcissistic pimp and a well connected restaurant tour.

784
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:02.679
<v Speaker 6>They looked guilt, but the police dropped the ball seemingly

785
00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:06.880
<v Speaker 6>on purpose. She even found the crime scene, which was,

786
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:10.800
<v Speaker 6>as expected, a bloody mess, and she found a hotel,

787
00:46:11.119 --> 00:46:16.360
<v Speaker 6>a motel that days after Elizabeth Short disappeared. Witnesses were

788
00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:19.079
<v Speaker 6>saying one room was completely drenched with blood and fecal matter,

789
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:22.599
<v Speaker 6>but they didn't call police because they were a sleazy motel,

790
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:25.400
<v Speaker 6>and they discouraged the police from coming. So, I mean,

791
00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:27.360
<v Speaker 6>it's unbelievable that you can find how much blood in

792
00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:30.480
<v Speaker 6>a hotel room and not call police. But the police

793
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:33.320
<v Speaker 6>in La were different. They were corrupt through and through.

794
00:46:33.639 --> 00:46:35.920
<v Speaker 6>You couldn't trust that they would go after the bad

795
00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:39.679
<v Speaker 6>guys because the bad guys were often connected. Yeah, I mean,

796
00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:41.599
<v Speaker 6>all of the all of the books on the Black

797
00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:46.400
<v Speaker 6>Dallian mentioned this that LAPD was so interwoven with corruption

798
00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:50.440
<v Speaker 6>that the killer, even if he was known to the police,

799
00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:53.639
<v Speaker 6>could avoid investigation if you were a person with the

800
00:46:53.719 --> 00:46:59.199
<v Speaker 6>right connections. And that's the case here, which is scary,

801
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:03.400
<v Speaker 6>And I mean that the LAPD is not like that anymore.

802
00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:08.280
<v Speaker 6>And when it did get better, it did some real

803
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:11.599
<v Speaker 6>damage control, mostly through the efforts of Jack Webb and

804
00:47:11.719 --> 00:47:14.920
<v Speaker 6>he showed Dragnet and Adam twelve and the LAPD is

805
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.320
<v Speaker 6>now a sophisticated and fair minded force, but in nineteen

806
00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:23.000
<v Speaker 6>forty seven not so much. And I've written about it

807
00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:25.159
<v Speaker 6>from the other side too. I've written books in which

808
00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:29.599
<v Speaker 6>La gangsters, you know, include top cops in their numbers.

809
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:30.159
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so.

810
00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:37.000
<v Speaker 6>I suspect that we now know, and I recommend it it.

811
00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:41.199
<v Speaker 6>Right after you read Dark Roses, read QWE twelve's Black

812
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:44.199
<v Speaker 6>Dahlia Red Rose. I think that's the that's the story there.

813
00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:50.840
<v Speaker 5>Absolutely, you include a story about Sheila Lebar. Vengeance is mine.

814
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:54.719
<v Speaker 5>And what I found particularly interesting is that many people

815
00:47:54.760 --> 00:47:58.679
<v Speaker 5>have heard the stories of of course her murderous ways,

816
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:05.320
<v Speaker 5>but I wasn't so familiar with her disturbing family background

817
00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:10.000
<v Speaker 5>and early life. Tell us a little bit about a

818
00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:11.400
<v Speaker 5>vengeance's mind and she.

819
00:48:12.039 --> 00:48:15.599
<v Speaker 6>Sure, Yeah, Sheila, I suspect this is ter Sheila was

820
00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:20.000
<v Speaker 6>sexually abused as a child by her father and his friends.

821
00:48:21.079 --> 00:48:24.840
<v Speaker 6>That those stories are corroborative by her sister, who you know,

822
00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:29.639
<v Speaker 6>didn't grow up to be a psycho killer. But Sheila definitely,

823
00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:34.280
<v Speaker 6>if she lacked a solid conscience to begin with, she

824
00:48:34.519 --> 00:48:38.039
<v Speaker 6>was abused into being a woman who was constantly angry

825
00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:42.239
<v Speaker 6>and hateful. Now, as a young woman, she had had

826
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:47.519
<v Speaker 6>a near death experience when a boyfriend hit the nerve

827
00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:50.039
<v Speaker 6>to break up with her right to her face. So

828
00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:52.480
<v Speaker 6>she was going to show him. So she swallowed a

829
00:48:52.519 --> 00:48:54.440
<v Speaker 6>bottle of pills, got behind the wheel of her car

830
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:57.639
<v Speaker 6>and drove until she passed out and crashed. And she

831
00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:00.119
<v Speaker 6>almost killed herself in this way. She really did in

832
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:03.079
<v Speaker 6>a long time in a coma, And when she woke up,

833
00:49:03.559 --> 00:49:06.679
<v Speaker 6>she said that she had gone to heaven, and God

834
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:09.719
<v Speaker 6>and a bunch of other men with beards told her

835
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:12.360
<v Speaker 6>that they weren't ready for her yet, but she still

836
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:15.559
<v Speaker 6>had a mission back on earth, and they sent her

837
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:18.639
<v Speaker 6>back to complete her life. And her mission was to

838
00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:24.199
<v Speaker 6>rid the world of pedophiles jazz like the ones who

839
00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:29.639
<v Speaker 6>had abused her when she was a little girl. Yes, so,

840
00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:35.800
<v Speaker 6>after her husband dies unexpectedly, she recruited mentally handicapped men

841
00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:39.079
<v Speaker 6>to work on her horse farm in New Hampshire. She

842
00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:43.320
<v Speaker 6>then had sex with them. She dominated them, and she

843
00:49:43.639 --> 00:49:48.119
<v Speaker 6>made them under duress to say the least confessed to

844
00:49:48.199 --> 00:49:53.239
<v Speaker 6>pedophilia yea, and to incest, at which point she said, Aha,

845
00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:57.880
<v Speaker 6>now God has given me permission to kill you, and

846
00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:01.280
<v Speaker 6>she killed them, chopped them up, and burned their bodies

847
00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:04.480
<v Speaker 6>in a big fire pit in her front lawn. So,

848
00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:08.119
<v Speaker 6>I mean, this is the rarest of all serial killers.

849
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:11.719
<v Speaker 6>That women serial killers are rare to begin with, and

850
00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:18.639
<v Speaker 6>often they kill in passive ways, they poison their boyfriends

851
00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:23.360
<v Speaker 6>or but here's a woman killer who's beating the crap

852
00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:27.519
<v Speaker 6>out of her victims until they're dead and then chopping

853
00:50:27.559 --> 00:50:30.199
<v Speaker 6>them up. And then she was like a like the

854
00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:33.679
<v Speaker 6>Witch and Hansol and Gretel, only she didn't care about

855
00:50:33.800 --> 00:50:35.559
<v Speaker 6>the little girls. She just wanted the little boys in

856
00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:40.719
<v Speaker 6>her oven. And Dark Roses concentrates on Sheila's bizarre behavior

857
00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:44.119
<v Speaker 6>because if you can figure out what was going on

858
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:47.239
<v Speaker 6>in that tortured brain of hers, let me know, as

859
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:52.000
<v Speaker 6>I've looked at all directions and it defies absolute interpretation. Now,

860
00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:54.719
<v Speaker 6>in normal conditions, it's hard to determine when a person

861
00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:59.480
<v Speaker 6>with mental problems is malingering, since the malingering itself can

862
00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:02.239
<v Speaker 6>be a simctim of the illness. So I provided as

863
00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:04.719
<v Speaker 6>much as I could about what Sheila did and what

864
00:51:04.880 --> 00:51:07.559
<v Speaker 6>she said about what she did, But what was actually

865
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:09.840
<v Speaker 6>going on in her I mean, did she really believe

866
00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:12.400
<v Speaker 6>she went to heaven. Did she really believe that she

867
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:14.599
<v Speaker 6>was justified to do these things? Or was she just

868
00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:17.480
<v Speaker 6>angry at men because they'd abused her when she was little?

869
00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:21.480
<v Speaker 6>You can't tell now. When I went to Epping, New

870
00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:25.239
<v Speaker 6>Hampshire to cover the story, I was busted by the

871
00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:29.320
<v Speaker 6>local police. The two Epping New Hampshire cops took me

872
00:51:29.480 --> 00:51:33.000
<v Speaker 6>into their station and handcuffed me to a bench. Now

873
00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:35.840
<v Speaker 6>they let shield would go for months, even though they

874
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:39.239
<v Speaker 6>knew something was seriously bad was going on at the range.

875
00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:42.559
<v Speaker 6>But they had no trouble busting the writer who came

876
00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:42.840
<v Speaker 6>up to.

877
00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Now.

878
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:46.880
<v Speaker 6>And the difference is that she was one of the

879
00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:51.639
<v Speaker 6>richest women in town, and that's another story. She conderedway

880
00:51:51.760 --> 00:51:55.119
<v Speaker 6>the riches by taking the last name of a man

881
00:51:55.239 --> 00:51:58.519
<v Speaker 6>she'd never married, a man that she'd only co ha

882
00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:02.199
<v Speaker 6>cohabitated with for a brief period of time. And when

883
00:52:02.480 --> 00:52:04.760
<v Speaker 6>they asked her for her marriage license, she said, I

884
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:06.480
<v Speaker 6>don't have a license. I have a pistol and I'll

885
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:09.880
<v Speaker 6>use it. So they wrote down she was his wife.

886
00:52:10.119 --> 00:52:15.400
<v Speaker 6>And she'd had her husband's will rewritten, incredible, clearly written

887
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:15.760
<v Speaker 6>by her.

888
00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:16.159
<v Speaker 2>You know.

889
00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:20.440
<v Speaker 6>The will was a testament to wonderful, wonderful person. That's Sheila,

890
00:52:20.599 --> 00:52:22.800
<v Speaker 6>and she got the farm and she's one of the

891
00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:26.119
<v Speaker 6>richest women in town. And if she gets herself alone

892
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:28.880
<v Speaker 6>with a cop, she exposes herself at Yell's Ring. So

893
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:31.840
<v Speaker 6>she here's the two cops. The two upping cops are

894
00:52:32.840 --> 00:52:38.559
<v Speaker 6>at Sheila's house. Sheila's latest boyfriend is missing. The boyfriend's

895
00:52:39.280 --> 00:52:43.639
<v Speaker 6>mothers wants to know what's going on. And instead of

896
00:52:44.119 --> 00:52:46.960
<v Speaker 6>having and then ellen, they find a human bone, something

897
00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:48.920
<v Speaker 6>that looks like a human bone in her fire pit.

898
00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:52.559
<v Speaker 6>And instead of one cop going to get the search

899
00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:55.079
<v Speaker 6>warrant and the other one's staying with Sheila, they leave

900
00:52:55.159 --> 00:52:58.719
<v Speaker 6>her alone in the middle of nowhere and they go

901
00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:01.119
<v Speaker 6>get the search warrant together by having to come back,

902
00:53:01.320 --> 00:53:04.760
<v Speaker 6>the bone's gone, the victim sneakers are gone, and she'll's

903
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:10.880
<v Speaker 6>covered with ashes. Anyway, Luckily, Sheila tape recorded the torture

904
00:53:10.960 --> 00:53:15.360
<v Speaker 6>sessions of her victims. She had on tape their confessions

905
00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:19.960
<v Speaker 6>that there were pedophiles and they committed incest and claimed,

906
00:53:20.119 --> 00:53:24.079
<v Speaker 6>even after she was arrested, that this was the reason

907
00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:26.760
<v Speaker 6>they had to go. She'd been sleeping with pedophiles. They

908
00:53:26.840 --> 00:53:29.920
<v Speaker 6>needed to be burned, and she quoted, you know biblical

909
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:34.639
<v Speaker 6>passages they talk about purification by fire. Anyway, I managed

910
00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:38.440
<v Speaker 6>to to photograph the crime scene and eventually the charges

911
00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:46.000
<v Speaker 6>against me were dropped. Yeah, I was working, and but

912
00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:49.039
<v Speaker 6>you know, I don't don't want to go back to

913
00:53:49.039 --> 00:53:51.280
<v Speaker 6>that Big New Hampshire anytime soon. So if they're worried

914
00:53:51.320 --> 00:53:54.559
<v Speaker 6>about becoming, they don't have to. Sheilla's in prison for.

915
00:53:55.239 --> 00:53:55.559
<v Speaker 2>There you go.

916
00:53:56.480 --> 00:53:59.000
<v Speaker 5>I'd like to discuss one more story with you, and

917
00:53:59.320 --> 00:54:03.880
<v Speaker 5>this is the very disturbing because it involves children, this Breckinridge,

918
00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:07.199
<v Speaker 5>but because it's unfamiliar to me, I'm pretty sure that

919
00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:12.159
<v Speaker 5>people haven't heard this incredible story. Tell us briefly about Breckinridge.

920
00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:15.280
<v Speaker 6>Sure, it was while I was in at Big New Hampshire.

921
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:18.280
<v Speaker 6>It was the day before I went to Shield's farm

922
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:23.440
<v Speaker 6>and ended up in Hancuffs. I learned that it was

923
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:26.159
<v Speaker 6>June twenty fifth, two thousand and eight. It was the

924
00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:29.440
<v Speaker 6>forty second anniversary of the double murders behind my house

925
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:31.440
<v Speaker 6>when I was nine, Right, So there's something about the

926
00:54:31.480 --> 00:54:34.079
<v Speaker 6>summer souls just crimes get ickier. Around the first few

927
00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:38.360
<v Speaker 6>days of summer two thousand and eight, ran off Vermond

928
00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:42.559
<v Speaker 6>area and a man named Michael S. Jakes was what

929
00:54:42.760 --> 00:54:46.960
<v Speaker 6>you might call a kiddy porn enthusiast, and he belonged

930
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:49.719
<v Speaker 6>to a club he'd found on the so called dark

931
00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:54.480
<v Speaker 6>web called Breckinridge. Now Breckenridge may have been his own invention,

932
00:54:54.679 --> 00:54:58.039
<v Speaker 6>and the guys who the other members were his friends

933
00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:01.599
<v Speaker 6>and acquaintance, says, or it was just the tip of

934
00:55:01.639 --> 00:55:05.840
<v Speaker 6>a Breckinridge iceberg that the rest of which we haven't

935
00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:09.559
<v Speaker 6>seen because it knows how to stay submerged. But club

936
00:55:09.639 --> 00:55:14.440
<v Speaker 6>members shared photos and videos and sometimes victims. Now Jake's

937
00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:17.719
<v Speaker 6>was an active member of the group. He'd already recruited

938
00:55:17.760 --> 00:55:21.800
<v Speaker 6>and videotaped a number of young victims, giving his comrades

939
00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:24.280
<v Speaker 6>the kind of entertainment they wanted, and at some point

940
00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:27.519
<v Speaker 6>he decided to up the ante. He had these girls

941
00:55:27.559 --> 00:55:30.320
<v Speaker 6>convinced that they would be killed if they failed to

942
00:55:30.519 --> 00:55:34.360
<v Speaker 6>serve their masters as ordered to do. Now, Bereckerrine was

943
00:55:34.400 --> 00:55:37.559
<v Speaker 6>an organization that recruited nine ten eleven year old girls

944
00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:42.079
<v Speaker 6>and told them that they had to learn how to

945
00:55:42.199 --> 00:55:45.880
<v Speaker 6>be adequate sexual partners for these men, or else bad

946
00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:49.960
<v Speaker 6>things would happen to them. And they're basically terrorized into

947
00:55:50.119 --> 00:55:54.000
<v Speaker 6>being these guys little Nymph at Playmates. Now we talk

948
00:55:54.079 --> 00:55:56.519
<v Speaker 6>about a girl in the story named Janet had her

949
00:55:56.559 --> 00:56:00.920
<v Speaker 6>real name, but she was one of Jake's success stories,

950
00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:04.519
<v Speaker 6>and she'd learned all the sex acts and she was

951
00:56:04.639 --> 00:56:07.320
<v Speaker 6>very close to getting the seventy five percent approval rate

952
00:56:07.639 --> 00:56:12.000
<v Speaker 6>she needed to graduate Wow, and Jakes tells her that

953
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:15.679
<v Speaker 6>he really would rather talk about sex and pleasure. But

954
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:19.320
<v Speaker 6>there comes a time sometimes when girls won't do what

955
00:56:19.400 --> 00:56:23.159
<v Speaker 6>they're told and they are scheduled. This is quote scheduled

956
00:56:23.239 --> 00:56:27.159
<v Speaker 6>for termination, and sure enough, Janet finds out that her

957
00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:31.079
<v Speaker 6>friend Brooke Bennett, twelve years old, is not behaving as

958
00:56:31.119 --> 00:56:35.840
<v Speaker 6>she should and has been scheduled for termination, and Janet

959
00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:40.239
<v Speaker 6>is forced to Jan's told that if she finally does

960
00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:42.320
<v Speaker 6>the right thing at the last moment, she might be

961
00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:46.360
<v Speaker 6>able to save herself. But it's up to Janet to

962
00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:49.920
<v Speaker 6>help get Brooke Bennett into Michael Jake's house. So they

963
00:56:49.960 --> 00:56:53.239
<v Speaker 6>come over together under the lie that there's going to

964
00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:56.039
<v Speaker 6>be a pool party, and Brooke shows up with her

965
00:56:56.079 --> 00:57:00.840
<v Speaker 6>bathing suit and Janet leaves and Brooke Bennett was missing.

966
00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:05.719
<v Speaker 6>Her body's found and cops know who's responsible right away

967
00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:11.559
<v Speaker 6>because Jake's Janet and Brooke, Bennett were all all appeared

968
00:57:11.599 --> 00:57:15.079
<v Speaker 6>on a surveillance tape at a convenience store earlier on

969
00:57:15.159 --> 00:57:18.119
<v Speaker 6>the day of Brooks murder. So they go after Janet

970
00:57:18.159 --> 00:57:20.920
<v Speaker 6>and they start questioning Janet. Finally she starts to say, well,

971
00:57:21.239 --> 00:57:23.800
<v Speaker 6>you know, I belong to this club. It's called Breckinridge.

972
00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:27.400
<v Speaker 6>We're supposed to have sex with men. And she says

973
00:57:27.800 --> 00:57:31.559
<v Speaker 6>that Michael Jakes is one of the guys. So and

974
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:36.800
<v Speaker 6>it turns out that the Janet's stepfather is another member

975
00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:41.119
<v Speaker 6>of Breckenridge, and he's in Texas throwing hard drives out

976
00:57:41.159 --> 00:57:44.079
<v Speaker 6>the window when he finds out that Jake's has been arrested.

977
00:57:44.519 --> 00:57:49.559
<v Speaker 6>And it did a horrible thing to that area of Vermont.

978
00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:54.360
<v Speaker 6>The crime happened in the early summer, and at the

979
00:57:54.519 --> 00:57:57.719
<v Speaker 6>end of the summer, all the way to Halloween, they

980
00:57:57.760 --> 00:58:01.519
<v Speaker 6>were so traumatized they were talking about canceling Halloween because

981
00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:08.199
<v Speaker 6>of child molesters. Right, hopefully, hopefully they've recovered to some

982
00:58:08.360 --> 00:58:13.199
<v Speaker 6>extent now. The case did bring about some legislative changes

983
00:58:13.239 --> 00:58:15.719
<v Speaker 6>in the way pedophiles were treated in the court system,

984
00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:19.000
<v Speaker 6>because Jake's had been arrested multiple times for the same stuff,

985
00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:22.000
<v Speaker 6>and how every time he'd been let out one time.

986
00:58:22.039 --> 00:58:24.119
<v Speaker 6>He was let out early on purpose because they wanted

987
00:58:24.199 --> 00:58:26.679
<v Speaker 6>him to get into a program for pedophiles, and you

988
00:58:26.719 --> 00:58:29.440
<v Speaker 6>couldn't do that when he was a prisoner, so they

989
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:31.320
<v Speaker 6>let him out. They led him out to do it

990
00:58:31.400 --> 00:58:34.519
<v Speaker 6>again rather than keeping him in jail and away from

991
00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:39.679
<v Speaker 6>little girls. So it's a guilt that that section of

992
00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:41.559
<v Speaker 6>Vermont had a lot of trouble shaking.

993
00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:45.960
<v Speaker 5>Yes, I want to thank you so much Michael Benson

994
00:58:46.039 --> 00:58:49.480
<v Speaker 5>for coming on talking about your latest Dark Roses thirteen

995
00:58:49.599 --> 00:58:53.360
<v Speaker 5>horrific true Stories. I know this is a Benson book

996
00:58:53.960 --> 00:58:55.719
<v Speaker 5>for those that might want to take a look at

997
00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:58.760
<v Speaker 5>other work. I know there's an Amazon page, but is

998
00:58:58.800 --> 00:58:59.559
<v Speaker 5>there a website.

999
00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:03.719
<v Speaker 6>Guys still don't have a website. I'm sorry, Dan, but

1000
00:59:03.880 --> 00:59:08.320
<v Speaker 6>on on Amazon, i am the I am the Michael

1001
00:59:08.360 --> 00:59:11.559
<v Speaker 6>Benson with the white Beard. I think author author Michael

1002
00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:14.920
<v Speaker 6>Benson does the trick. And I'm on Facebook and if

1003
00:59:14.960 --> 00:59:17.800
<v Speaker 6>you want to by all means, I've had many friend

1004
00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:21.679
<v Speaker 6>requests over the years where the friend in communist Dan Zupansky,

1005
00:59:24.239 --> 00:59:26.199
<v Speaker 6>so and that's another way to get in touch with me.

1006
00:59:27.239 --> 00:59:30.760
<v Speaker 6>And I do have many true crime books and Dark

1007
00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:33.679
<v Speaker 6>Roses with the great cover photo by my son and

1008
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:36.920
<v Speaker 6>cover design by my daughter. It's truly a Benson book.

1009
00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:39.840
<v Speaker 5>Absolutely, thank you so much, Michael Benson.

1010
00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:41.400
<v Speaker 6>Thanks Dan, I really appreciate it.

1011
00:59:41.440 --> 00:59:42.280
<v Speaker 5>Thank you, good night,
