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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network and this

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is six Degrees of John Keel. Hello and welcome to

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the six Degrees of John Kiel podcast. I'm your host

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Barbara Fisher. Tonight I'm talking with Carly Lapham Latham Latham.

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See I told you i'm professional people, I really am Latham.

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And she goes by the village to row which on Instagram.

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She's a very interesting person. And we had just been

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talking about what's haunted houses or people or both, and

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so why don't you jump in with your haunted house.

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Speaker 2: Story, my haunted house story. I am really excited for

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this because I just had a phone call with my realtor.

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The house in question is for sale at the moment.

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I'm not gonna say where, because if you buy that house, like,

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that's on you, buddy, you know, So that's that's not

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my problem anymore. But I would say that I am

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someone that has always been sensitive, but I lacked the

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information and the understanding of what was going on. So

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like I can look back at my life and pinpoint

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several several times when I felt like I wasn't alone,

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Like I had experiences that I couldn't explain but I

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was raised Mormon, so I was raised in a very

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black and white this is what's real, this is what's

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not religion, And as a result, when I had these experiences,

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I almost always would chalk them up to anxiety like

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that that it was the only way that I had

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to interpret what was going on. Is I would be

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alone in a room and be feeling watched and I

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had no explanation for it other than I must have

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watched too many horror movies. You know, Like I am

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an anxious person that runs in my family. So like

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that's that's logical, right, So fast forward to my adult years.

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I left the Mormon religion, which is a whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah a thing.

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Speaker 2: It's a big thing. Yeah, it's a big thing. It

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was hard on my family, It was hard on a

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lot of the people that I was friends with. It's

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the reason that I'm not active on Facebook is because

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I have a Facebook account. But Facebook is where all

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of my Mormon people live, and so I just I

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know that strategically going on Facebook is good for me,

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but I avoid it at all costs. So it is fair,

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you know, Facebook is kind of an ick place anyways.

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So I left the Mormon religion. And within a couple

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of years, I moved to Florida. And I had lived

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in Texas essentially my whole life. So like we're talking

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born into this religion, left it, and then left my

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home state behind in a very short amount of time. Okay,

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So I got to Florida, and I am fully an

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atheist at this point. I don't believe in anything. If

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you know anything about Mormonism, it is that they teach

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that that is the one true church, and they actually

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will actively tell you if this isn't true, nothing is.

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So like I worked through that conditioning. I had that

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moment where I was like, this religion, this story that

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I've been told my entire life, there's no basis in reality.

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This isn't real. I don't have to stick with this,

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right And it was huge for me because I had

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always been very unhappy within Mormonism. I did not fit

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in like I'm here on this podcast. Do you think

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that I fit in with Mormonism? Like I didn't fit

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in there. I didn't really fit in super well with

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my family, like I've always been a little bit odd,

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you know. And so I'm moving into this house and

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almost immediately I started noticing strange things that like I

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felt my whole life, but they were really amplified in

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this house. Like one of the first nights that I

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was alone, which was very few and far between. I

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at the time, I was a military spouse. I my

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ex was working for SpaceX, and so like my entire

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existence was being a stay at home mom to my

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kids to be there while he was out taking care

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of business. Right, other military spouses and even SpaceX wives

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will say the same thing. There's not a lot of

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flexibility in our lives because we tend to just like

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revolve around what's happening with our spouses at the time. Right,

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So I didn't get a lot of time to myself.

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I was alone very rarely, and so in the house

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in Florida, I started having these moments where I was

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alone for the first time and I was getting really

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it wasn't even like jumpy. It was more like it

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was almost like when you're watching a horror movie and

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the main character knows that she's being watched and is

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like looking around and there's like there's a bad guy

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lurking around the corner. Right. It's that type of feeling,

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except that I really was alone and so I'd be

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looking around my house and being like, I don't understand

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what the problem is. But it was intensified to a

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degree that I had never felt before. So it even

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got to the point where I was afraid to be

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in the main house by myself. So if I was alone,

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which again, I live to be alone. I love I

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love my and I love I love when the house

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is to myself, like I thrive in alone time. I

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don't like. I don't like it when my house is

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too loud or too crowded or too busy, which is

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hilarious because I homeschool my kids, so it's always all

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of the above, right, But I would go into my

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bedroom and I was scared to the degree that I

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was locking myself in my bedroom and just like kind

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of hanging out there and watching TV in bed until

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my kids would come home. Right, So this is happening.

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And then meanwhile I meet these new friends in the

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neighborhood I had joined. I homeschool my kids, so before

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we moved to Florida, I did a lot of research

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on homeschool groups, on trying to find ways for us

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to get involved in the community so it wouldn't be

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as hard of a transition as you know, it's a

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pretty big move. So I met these women and they

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started talking about birth charts and things that I was like, Okay,

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I like, I'm a little bit familiar, but I also

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don't know because keep in mind, I'm an ex Mormon.

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Mormons don't talk about any of those things ever. Ever

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X Mormon atheist at this point, Okay, So I am

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forever fucking gout my feet, like it is just a

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rite of passage. I will injure my feet in the

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most bizarre and ridiculous manners ever. Ever, Like, I don't

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have a single story that I like that's that makes sense. No,

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it's the dumbest stories that lead me to injuring my feet.

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So this particular day, I'm walking up the stairs and

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I stubbed my big toe and that's ridiculous. But I

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remember at the time being like, oh, you know, and

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then just going about my day. I took the kids swimming,

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we went for a walk around the neighborhood with our

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new friends. We're doing this, We're doing that. I put

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the kids to bed, I at my My ex at

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the time was working night shifts, so he was gone,

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so I like tucked the kids in and I am

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laying in bed, and my foot starts to hurt so bad,

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Like it's just getting worse and worse and worse. And

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the longer that I sit there, the worse the pain

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is becoming. And I'm like, I you know this is

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this is ridiculous. I my fucking clumsy ass, right So

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I'm like, okay, I'm gonna get up. I'm gonna get

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some ibuprofen. My bedroom was on the second story, so

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I opened the door to my bedroom and there was

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like a little hallway and a landing area. So I

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take a few steps down the hallway. I'm almost to

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the landing area, and I just get hit by this

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wall of fear. So I stood there and I was like,

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I don't know how to process what I'm feeling right now,

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because I was I was aware that I was more

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afraid than the situation warranted, because I'm like looking around

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and I'm like, I'm alone. I'm alone right now. I

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put my children to bed, like they are in their bedrooms.

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There is no reason for me to feel this afraid.

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And so I tried to take another step, and the

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fear just intensified to the level that I was like,

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I don't know what to do here. So I went

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back into my bedroom and I was like, I guess

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I'm just gonna wait this out, like, you know, what

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do you even do here? So, like that night was dramatic.

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And then the next day I had mentioned this to

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my new friends because it just was such a bewildering

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experience for me that like I didn't have any way

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to logically explain what had happened to me, Like, yes,

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I am prone to anxiety. I've always been prone to anxiety,

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but I've never had had that experience where I was

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rooted to the spot petrified for seemingly no reason.

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Speaker 1: Right, So you had none of the anxiety thought.

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Speaker 2: Loops, none of the anxiety thought loops. Right, Oh, that

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I'm so glad you about that doesn't feel right. It

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didn't feel right, but there also wasn't a reason for

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it to feel wrong. Like, you know, I do have

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anxiety thought loops when I'm alone, but they always take

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a very specific pattern, Like I could tell you exactly

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what I worry about when I'm alone, and that night,

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none of those things were happening. It just was my

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foot hurt so bad, and I was like looking at

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my empty house and being like I don't understand, like

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what is happening to me because there is no reason

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to feel this way, and like there were no traumad

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other than the move, which you could count as traumatic,

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but like it really wasn't that bad, you know what

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I mean, Like, yeah, it was sad, it was really

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hard to leave my home, it was hard to leave

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my friends, but it wasn't like a traumatic move. So

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I mentioned it to my friends and they started encouraging

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me to have a psychic that they know come to

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my house and clear it. And it was really resistant

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to the idea for a little while because I was

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like I don't believe in that. That's perfectly logical, you know, yeah,

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yeah yeah. So I was like, I don't know, that

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seems like a stretch, Like I've always been anxious, Like

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I'm sure, I'm sure that there's some explanation. But one

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one of like another night, I was laying in my

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bed and I was like, what if what if my

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kids experienced something like that? And I was like, you know,

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I don't know what happened to me. I don't I

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can't explain why I felt this level of fear, but

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I am an adult. What if my kids had that

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same experience? And then I was like, okay, that was

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hard for me. I'm in my thirties. I'm thirty five now,

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so I probably was like I don't know earlier thirties, right, Like,

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if it made that level of an impact on me,

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what would it do to my kids? So that was

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the motivating factor to call this woman to my house,

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and that alone was an entire experience because she came

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over and she's blessing my house with holy water, She's

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calling archangel Michael, like she's saying these prayers, these rights

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that I am not familiar with because I was raised Mormon,

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and Mormons don't have the archangels, they don't have holy water,

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they don't do they don't even really talk about ghosts.

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So like all of this, and I'm just following her

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through my house and my eyes are like wide as

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fucking saucers. I'm like, okay, okay. But then she sat

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down with me in my living room and she was like,

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I would love to do a reading with you, and

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she pulled out some oracle cards, and mind you, by

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this point, it's been like maybe a month and a half.

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It hasn't been a whole lot of time in Florida,

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So the friends who referred this woman don't know all

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that much about me. And I say that because like,

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i am like open to a degree, but I'm also

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very hard to get to know. I am very I'm

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like a weird mixture of open and closed off. Like

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you're gonna have a few good conversations with me and

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then it's just gonna be like, what happened. That's weird.

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And I'm like, I know, sorry, Like I don't know

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what to tell you about that, but so and I

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say that not as like a cautionary tale, but to

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say that this woman sat down in front of me

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and told me things about myself that like I hadn't

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even told some of my very closest friends. There was

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literally no way that she could have known these things

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about me. She was telling me deeply personal details about

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my thoughts and my feelings, and I was like, what

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the fuck.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry, I've had that happen with with psychics,

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ye readers, And it's just like but I.

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Speaker 2: Wait, wait, how did how how did you know that

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about me?

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Speaker 3: Though?

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Speaker 1: You know, like like yeah.

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Speaker 2: I'm still stuck on. I barely admit this to myself.

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How do you like what? You know? It was that

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level of So she stopped mid reading and she reached

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into her bag and she handed me a deck of

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her own cards and was like, they're telling me that

239
00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:59,320
you're going to need these. These are going to be

240
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:03,200
important for you, right. And it's like a movie moment

241
00:16:03,279 --> 00:16:04,879
when I say it like that, but like if you

242
00:16:04,879 --> 00:16:07,440
were there, in reality, it was like awkward as shit,

243
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,679
because if people get be presents, I don't know what

244
00:16:09,799 --> 00:16:13,120
to do with them, and so I'm just like, thank you.

245
00:16:13,279 --> 00:16:13,799
Speaker 1: It's awkward.

246
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:14,519
Speaker 2: It's awkward.

247
00:16:14,679 --> 00:16:18,240
Speaker 1: You know, it's awkward, especially if it's a stranger. Then

248
00:16:18,279 --> 00:16:20,440
it's like one hundred times off.

249
00:16:20,799 --> 00:16:26,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, a stranger who's just told you about very very detailed,

250
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,200
very personal details about your life. Right, And then she's

251
00:16:30,279 --> 00:16:32,320
just like, here you go, you're gonna need these. I'm like,

252
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,600
what the fuck? Like what do I even do with these?

253
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,919
I don't know what these are. It was a deck

254
00:16:36,919 --> 00:16:41,320
of angel cards by Dorian Virtue. I don't have them

255
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,000
anymore because I gave them to a friend. I don't

256
00:16:44,039 --> 00:16:45,399
know if you can tell this about me, but I'm

257
00:16:45,399 --> 00:16:49,480
not super religious. I use them for a really long time,

258
00:16:49,639 --> 00:16:51,279
and then I passed them on to one of my

259
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,879
best friends because they seemed better suited for her. But

260
00:16:56,639 --> 00:16:58,480
either way, it was a big It was a big

261
00:16:58,519 --> 00:17:02,159
turning moment for me. So now I had these cards

262
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,119
and I was like, awesome, I don't know how to

263
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,279
use these, and so like it really wasn't like like

264
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,119
I wasn't getting like instruction or anything. I just was like, Okay, well,

265
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,200
I'm gonna shuffle these cards and I'm gonna pull one

266
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,200
and I'm gonna see what happens. And then every time

267
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,400
I was pulling them, I had a little journal and

268
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,880
I was writing on the card and what the guide

269
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,839
book said and how I thought it fit into my life.

270
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,079
And I kind of taught myself how to read like that,

271
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:36,559
which then opened the door for mediumship and more hauntings,

272
00:17:38,079 --> 00:17:42,720
because yes, because they they all go together. But my

273
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,880
like looking back on it now, like from wearing sitting out,

274
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,000
I don't live in Florida anymore, but I can look

275
00:17:51,039 --> 00:17:53,559
back at that time period of my life and be like, yeah,

276
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,920
all of these things needed to happen for me to

277
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,839
be in that exact moment ready to understand and to

278
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,640
receive the information that I was going to be given

279
00:18:03,839 --> 00:18:08,119
because if that same experience had happened in my house

280
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,640
in Texas, even as an ex Mormon, I would have

281
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,599
been a fresh ex Mormon and been like, no, sorry,

282
00:18:15,759 --> 00:18:18,319
I don't believe in that. That's just like a weird

283
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,920
it's a weird coincidence. And now I believe in all

284
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,079
sorts of crazy shits. It's like.

285
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:26,799
Speaker 1: Just like the rest of me.

286
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:28,920
Speaker 2: I know, I know. I like to say I'm a

287
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,960
skeptical believer. Now I'm like Molder and Scully combined because

288
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,599
I go to the logical side first, and if I

289
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,680
can't disprove it, then I move into the okay, what

290
00:18:40,799 --> 00:18:47,519
could it be? Area? But yeah, that house was. It's

291
00:18:47,599 --> 00:18:50,480
the ongoing debate is it the person or is it

292
00:18:50,559 --> 00:18:54,519
the house? And in my case, I think it's both.

293
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,519
I think I've always been a little bit more aware,

294
00:18:57,759 --> 00:19:02,440
a little bit more attuned. I think I think I

295
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,200
can't tell you for sure, but I think that when

296
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,119
I was little, I saw something that scared me enough

297
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:12,480
that I've like shut down that part of my senses

298
00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:17,359
because I don't see. Occasionally I hear, but very rarely,

299
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,519
so like I have a very limited skill set with

300
00:19:20,559 --> 00:19:22,960
which I can communicate with the other side, and that

301
00:19:23,079 --> 00:19:27,319
works for me, you know, I'm not, so it makes

302
00:19:27,319 --> 00:19:30,240
it a little bit more frustrating sometimes if I'm trying

303
00:19:30,279 --> 00:19:33,880
to figure something out and it's like, you know, you're

304
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,480
talking to someone shouting at you while your eyes are

305
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,640
closed and ears are plugged. But it's still it's still

306
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,599
satisfying in a way. But like I can, I can

307
00:19:44,759 --> 00:19:47,400
look back at my life and be like, was this

308
00:19:47,839 --> 00:19:51,480
were you really afraid? Or was that potentially a ghost

309
00:19:51,599 --> 00:19:55,799
interacting with you and you perceived it as fear because

310
00:19:55,799 --> 00:19:59,240
there's no way to explain why, because if you can't

311
00:19:59,279 --> 00:20:01,839
see and you can't here, and you only feel someone

312
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,079
in your space, it's like jarring, you know.

313
00:20:05,519 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, and there's clearly no one and.

314
00:20:08,039 --> 00:20:11,559
Speaker 2: There's clearly no one else, right, That's yeah, it's it's

315
00:20:11,599 --> 00:20:15,480
a huge one. Yeah, yeah, it's it's uncomfortable.

316
00:20:16,319 --> 00:20:17,759
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's.

317
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 2: I think I've always been predisposed, But once I moved

318
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,640
into the house in Florida and I kind of had

319
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:30,079
that jolt of like waking up and being like, Okay,

320
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,440
so Mormonism is not real, but apparently ghosts are a thing,

321
00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:36,799
and like working through all that and opening my mind

322
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,240
and kind of stepping into the person that I always was,

323
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,440
or I was always meant to be in like a

324
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:48,400
weird way, but like all kind of figuring it out

325
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,599
as I go. Right. So, the next thing that happened

326
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,799
is I broke my foot. So again too, we got

327
00:20:57,799 --> 00:21:01,559
two foot stories in the same sitting. My origin story

328
00:21:01,559 --> 00:21:03,759
involves a lot of feet, which is uncomfortable for all

329
00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:10,720
of us. No, but I one of my kids dropped it. Seriously,

330
00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:12,920
was like a nickel size amount of milk, and I

331
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,920
walked past it, and I was like, I should wipe

332
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,480
up that milk. And then I got busy doing mom things.

333
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 1: And you skid it on it.

334
00:21:20,079 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 2: That's exactly what happened. I skid on it. I I

335
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,279
fractured the bones on the top of my foot, and

336
00:21:26,319 --> 00:21:28,920
I broke our arts. I didn't break, I tore the

337
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,200
muscles and the ligaments. Apparently. It was very close to

338
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:37,039
like being one of those foot injuries that like you're fucked,

339
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:37,480
you know.

340
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 1: It was like you're just gonna be like that forever.

341
00:21:40,519 --> 00:21:42,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was an actual name for it. I can't

342
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,880
remember what it was called anymore, but I my doctor

343
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,799
always gave me this pain scale question based on pennies,

344
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,559
and I just like every time I went there, I

345
00:21:53,599 --> 00:21:56,240
forgot everything that he told me, because he was always like,

346
00:21:56,319 --> 00:21:58,920
since the last time you were here, on a scale

347
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,480
from one two hundred penn how many pennies do you

348
00:22:01,559 --> 00:22:05,000
have left? And I was like, I'm bad at answering.

349
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,039
Speaker 4: One to ten pages word problem, you know.

350
00:22:08,039 --> 00:22:10,839
Speaker 2: What, Like yeah, like look at me. I'm not made

351
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:15,799
for math. I'm not a math person. And I would

352
00:22:15,839 --> 00:22:18,279
try to describe what I was feeling, and he was like, no,

353
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:19,920
just to answer the questions.

354
00:22:19,519 --> 00:22:22,279
Speaker 1: Like but I don't understand this.

355
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 2: I don't know what you want from me. But so

356
00:22:24,599 --> 00:22:27,519
I broke my foot. I spent several weeks in a cast.

357
00:22:27,839 --> 00:22:32,480
I it was right before Halloween, and so I started

358
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,400
watching ghost hunting shows naturally, and that's what you do

359
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,440
when exactly that's what you do when you break your

360
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,319
foot right before Halloween, right like I couldn't. It was

361
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,880
also during COVID, so this is twenty twenty. I my

362
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,880
foots my foot's in a boot, my right foot, and

363
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,359
so you can't drive when your right foot's in a boost,

364
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,519
Like there just is nothing to do. So I start

365
00:22:54,519 --> 00:22:57,000
watching these ghost hunting shows, and I was like, why

366
00:22:57,079 --> 00:23:00,400
is this explaining my life to me? Like the more watching,

367
00:23:00,799 --> 00:23:06,079
the more stories I'm hearing and people describing feeling entities

368
00:23:06,279 --> 00:23:08,680
around them, I'm like, what the fuck?

369
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,559
Speaker 4: Like I was sorry what it was?

370
00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 2: I'm like, is that are you explaining my life to

371
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,240
me right now? Like what is even happening? So I

372
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,559
like it was the first moment where like I had

373
00:23:21,559 --> 00:23:24,880
a psychic come to my house, Like I understand how this.

374
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,440
So I had a psychic come to my house to

375
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,759
clear it because it was haunted as shit. And then

376
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,240
I'm still like in this moment of like wait a second,

377
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:38,000
what And so've I've learned to read cards by now

378
00:23:38,039 --> 00:23:43,279
I'm reading tarot and oracle like fairly confidently. And I

379
00:23:43,319 --> 00:23:48,599
saw a paranormal investigator out in Florida post on Instagram

380
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,200
like I'm going to do this investigation. Here is this

381
00:23:52,279 --> 00:23:55,599
taro spread if anybody wants to pull any cards ahead

382
00:23:55,599 --> 00:24:00,240
of my investigation, like here it is, you know, here

383
00:24:00,279 --> 00:24:03,160
it is. See what you get? And so I was like, well,

384
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,480
what else do I have to do right now? My

385
00:24:05,519 --> 00:24:09,400
foot's broken, you know, and I have a I have

386
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,240
a deck that's one of my favorites to use for mediumship.

387
00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:15,960
It's called art History Tarot for Past lives. It's a

388
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:21,119
deck specifically made to help you tune into your past lives,

389
00:24:21,559 --> 00:24:24,880
but it works very well for mediumship. So I had

390
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,480
that deck and I was like, sure, I'm going to

391
00:24:28,519 --> 00:24:32,279
give it a go. So I followed the prompts and

392
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,559
I wrote it up and later I heard back from

393
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,119
him and he was like, that actually was you know?

394
00:24:40,079 --> 00:24:43,319
That was there was some accuracy there, and I was like, sweet,

395
00:24:43,839 --> 00:24:45,759
this is something I didn't know that I could do,

396
00:24:45,799 --> 00:24:49,799
but now I know this, and it ended up being

397
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,799
a really great relationship. I met that person. It's Eric

398
00:24:56,079 --> 00:24:59,400
ghost Hunter. South ghost Hunter of South Florida. Was a

399
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,519
part of a or is a part of a paranormal

400
00:25:01,559 --> 00:25:04,680
team or party paranormal, so I got to know a

401
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,279
lot of them. I pulled from them ahead of pulled

402
00:25:08,319 --> 00:25:11,640
for them, ahead of some other investigations, and I went

403
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,759
out into the field with them a lot and I

404
00:25:13,799 --> 00:25:17,400
would pull cards while they were using their devices. And

405
00:25:18,559 --> 00:25:23,039
that's probably my favorite thing still to this day, because like,

406
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,920
I miss doing that a lot because it really is

407
00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:30,000
cool to sit there and most of the time if

408
00:25:30,079 --> 00:25:35,759
I am pulling cards for a haunting, I will, almost

409
00:25:35,799 --> 00:25:38,759
to an obnoxious degree, say I'm not sure about this.

410
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:45,119
But and I do that not because I doubt myself,

411
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,279
but because the logical part of my brain will not

412
00:25:48,519 --> 00:25:55,240
shut itself off until I have given myself permission to say,

413
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,480
to process, to verbally process this information that I have

414
00:25:58,599 --> 00:26:01,559
no way of knowing. Right. So, like, if you're with

415
00:26:01,599 --> 00:26:04,480
me on an investigation, I will say, I will tell

416
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,240
you what the cards mean, and then I will say,

417
00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:09,480
I'm not sure about this, but this is what I think.

418
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,279
And you know, occasionally it rubs people the wrong way,

419
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,000
which is why I now give my disclaimer that I'm like.

420
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,640
It's not that I think I'm like making it up.

421
00:26:19,759 --> 00:26:23,160
It's just I'm hardwired for that black and white thinking.

422
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,359
I'm not the gray area doesn't come easily to me.

423
00:26:27,559 --> 00:26:31,480
So if I'm stepping into the gray area willingly, I

424
00:26:31,599 --> 00:26:34,960
have to give myself that caveat that I could be wrong, right,

425
00:26:35,279 --> 00:26:41,119
But but it was and still is really rewarding. When

426
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,720
I am sitting there like sprawled in the fucking dirt sometimes,

427
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,599
or like I'm usually on the floor. I almost never

428
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,720
sat at the table. Why, I don't know, I'm just

429
00:26:50,839 --> 00:26:53,519
on the floor. I have cards everywhere, and I'm spouting

430
00:26:53,759 --> 00:26:58,960
what could be nonsense, like I could be pulling stories

431
00:26:59,039 --> 00:27:02,279
out of my ass. I tell them what I think

432
00:27:02,279 --> 00:27:04,480
that my cards are saying, and then they play back

433
00:27:04,519 --> 00:27:07,720
the EVP recorders and there's some sort of confirmation for

434
00:27:07,759 --> 00:27:10,640
the words that I've just said. And that's the moment

435
00:27:10,759 --> 00:27:15,759
that I'm like this though this, Yeah, I love this.

436
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:24,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like the idea that you're sprawling on the

437
00:27:24,319 --> 00:27:29,920
floor too. I still read sprawled, so you know, that's

438
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,039
that's how I've been doing my research for my book.

439
00:27:32,039 --> 00:27:35,920
I'm sprawled sprawld me. So yeah, I.

440
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,519
Speaker 2: Feel like if you are a neurodivergent person or just

441
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,319
like any kind of cool person, you're gonna sprawl yourself

442
00:27:43,319 --> 00:27:45,799
on the floor because things make more sense on the floor.

443
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: Yes. Plus it's easier for the cats and dogs.

444
00:27:50,079 --> 00:27:52,839
Speaker 2: Hell, easier for the cats. For the dogs. You can

445
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,039
make little piles all around yourself like a fortress of information.

446
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yes, yeah, this book, that book, the other book,

447
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,480
the notes, things, the notepads, Hey give me my pen backs.

448
00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:10,599
That's usually a cat or a dog exactly, a dog

449
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,200
who likes to eat highlighters.

450
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 3: You know.

451
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: It's wild.

452
00:28:15,319 --> 00:28:20,799
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so you so you went on these these

453
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:31,119
uh ghost investigations, and you were finding out information from

454
00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:33,920
those areas, from the from the houses.

455
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: Yep. So I was getting information from the houses. And

456
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,839
I feel like every investigation that I went on, or

457
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,759
every opportunity that I had to pull kind of just

458
00:28:44,839 --> 00:28:51,039
helped me refine this skill set. And what ended up

459
00:28:51,079 --> 00:28:55,759
happening is that when things would happen in my own house,

460
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,640
which did start to escalate, the more aware I was,

461
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,160
the more activity was going on around me. And that

462
00:29:05,359 --> 00:29:08,720
does bring into question again It's another bit of a

463
00:29:08,759 --> 00:29:11,680
gray area from is it the person, is it the house?

464
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,839
Is it the situation? Is it some combination of all

465
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:22,359
of the three. But along the lines, I ended up

466
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:28,920
doing research with some friends about my house, the property itself,

467
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,400
and it turns out that it was right along the

468
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:40,119
trail of a battle trail where soldiers or civilians. It

469
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,359
really was like it. I had other people describe the

470
00:29:43,519 --> 00:29:46,319
energy of my house being like a railroad station, where

471
00:29:46,359 --> 00:29:48,720
it was like it wasn't the same set of spirits,

472
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,759
it was people coming and going, which matched up with

473
00:29:51,799 --> 00:29:54,279
what I was feeling because it was not the same

474
00:29:54,519 --> 00:29:57,119
energy every night. It was like some days I would

475
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,960
wake up with a woman, some days this, some days

476
00:30:01,039 --> 00:30:05,440
that it just was like an unsettling knowing that you

477
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,079
weren't alone. So I learned to ask what was happening,

478
00:30:09,279 --> 00:30:13,920
because understanding what's happening, even if I can't see it,

479
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,960
removes an element of fear from the table for me.

480
00:30:17,359 --> 00:30:23,440
So like having this experience, like most of my experiences

481
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:28,559
involve me sleeping, So like I do have ADHD, So

482
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,559
like during the day, I have ADHG and I have

483
00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:33,839
three kids that a homeschool, So like you know, getting

484
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,519
getting you know, getting my attention during the day is

485
00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:40,160
not like the easiest thing not to mention, like the

486
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,000
million and one projects that I'm constantly doing. So like

487
00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:46,880
when I'm awake, I'm on the go, I'm distracted. I'm

488
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,640
not easy to like, hey, I'd like a word with you,

489
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,559
right But at night, all my guards drop and that

490
00:30:54,599 --> 00:30:57,480
would be the opportunity that the ghosts would have to

491
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,039
like step up and be like, hey, I was just

492
00:31:01,079 --> 00:31:04,880
wondering if maybe you wanted to hear this terribly sad

493
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:11,559
story about me. And what I started doing is I

494
00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:13,839
would wake up in the moment. It was always scary

495
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,000
because you don't ever want to wake up feeling like

496
00:31:16,039 --> 00:31:18,839
somebody's standing by your bed, right, And that's the way

497
00:31:18,839 --> 00:31:21,400
it feels to me, is like an actual living person

498
00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:25,119
is by my bed. It's the moment where Michael Meyer.

499
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,079
You open your eyes and Michael Myers is standing over you, right.

500
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,640
And I learned to calm myself down, like I would

501
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,440
have a mental checklist and be like, the doors are locked,

502
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,359
the alarms turned on, my dog's not barking, my kids

503
00:31:39,359 --> 00:31:42,839
aren't awake, like there's nobody here, right, And then the

504
00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:45,160
next morning I would ask my cards about it and

505
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,039
be like, well, who was this person? And I would

506
00:31:49,119 --> 00:31:52,000
get information about who they were, and then I would say, okay,

507
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,160
well what did they want? Like what was so important?

508
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,200
Like what did they want to tell me? And I

509
00:31:57,279 --> 00:32:01,880
learned to start getting bits and pieces of these spirits lives.

510
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,519
And at the time, what I was doing is I

511
00:32:04,519 --> 00:32:06,799
would go onto my Instagram and I would do little

512
00:32:06,839 --> 00:32:11,880
installments of this was my experience, this is the spirit.

513
00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:14,440
Here's a follow up breeding because I'm still thinking about

514
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,559
the spirit. I haven't done anything like that in a while,

515
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,279
but I just I haven't really had the opportunity for

516
00:32:21,839 --> 00:32:27,000
a hot minute here, But it was a moment of

517
00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:32,319
like I had the awareness that ghosts are real. Whatever

518
00:32:32,359 --> 00:32:34,319
you want to call a ghost, whatever you think that

519
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:39,119
a ghost is, the energetic imprint of another human is real.

520
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,720
And then I had the process of learning what works

521
00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:48,799
for me to communicate because I have done some of

522
00:32:48,839 --> 00:32:54,200
the traditional mediumship classes and they just my brain doesn't

523
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,119
process information the same way that most of it's being taught.

524
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,079
And it could be the way that my brain chemistry works,

525
00:33:02,119 --> 00:33:04,359
It could be a lot of different factors, and it

526
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,359
could also just be that the way that I learned

527
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,039
was through feeling and imagery, and that is the way

528
00:33:12,039 --> 00:33:14,440
that my medium ship works. So I need both of

529
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,559
them to give you, like a clear description of what

530
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:22,599
I think is happening. I'm not always entirely accurate, like,

531
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:30,000
but I am accurate to a point.

532
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: That's you know, that's the best you can ask, really,

533
00:33:33,279 --> 00:33:37,839
that is perfectly accurate. Yeah, Yeah, well you know that's

534
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,839
it's it's just how that works.

535
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,279
Speaker 2: It is, Yeah, it's how it works. So, yeah, I

536
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,119
had a lot, a lot of experiences in Florida. I

537
00:33:49,119 --> 00:33:52,079
actually kind of miss it, especially now that we're we're

538
00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:55,440
in October right now when we're recording, and like, you know,

539
00:33:56,319 --> 00:33:59,359
there definitely is part of me that are like I

540
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:05,400
miss getting haunted, you know. But so now I am.

541
00:34:05,839 --> 00:34:11,559
I am living with my parents now, I am in

542
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,679
the process. I'm separated now, so I you know, that

543
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,480
process is happening. So I'm in a very different space now,

544
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,840
and there just isn't a lot of opportunity for that

545
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,679
type of thing. There's not like I know there's haunted

546
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,159
stuff around where I live, but I'm just like it's

547
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:30,719
different now.

548
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So you've written a book I have

549
00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:39,920
to write about.

550
00:34:40,599 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 2: So right now I have two different books out. I

551
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,440
have a novel out. It is called a Collection of Eyes,

552
00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:55,920
and my book is about a woman who is stalked

553
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,000
by a serial killer.

554
00:34:58,599 --> 00:35:00,280
Speaker 1: Hey, that's uplifting.

555
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 2: It's so fun. It's so fun. So this book started

556
00:35:05,639 --> 00:35:09,280
as a birthday present for my best friend. Her name

557
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,840
is Joy. If you are on Instagram, you can find

558
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:17,360
her at the Wild Underscore. Her story in like historian

559
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:23,880
but her and she lives in England. So I wanted

560
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:30,079
to do something for her birthday. But I don't remember

561
00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:31,719
what was happening. But I couldn't send her a box

562
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,920
at the time. So I was like, I'm gonna write

563
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,840
her something, and I wrote her this short story. And

564
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,639
if you have ever met Joy, she is fierce and

565
00:35:43,079 --> 00:35:48,000
just so brave, and she has done so much to

566
00:35:48,039 --> 00:35:54,400
help me before and after I got my PTSD diagnosis.

567
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,960
She was helping me sort through the mess that was

568
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,559
my life, right like she was. She was one of

569
00:36:01,559 --> 00:36:04,239
the people that not the only person, but she was

570
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:10,519
one of the people there that saw everything that I

571
00:36:10,599 --> 00:36:13,880
was up against and was like, I'm here and I'm

572
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,039
going to help you through this. And so I based

573
00:36:18,159 --> 00:36:22,800
the character of my story on the on Joy as

574
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,400
this like tough final girl. She's been through it, She's

575
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,039
come out the other side stronger, right. So it started

576
00:36:30,119 --> 00:36:34,320
as this short story and she was facing down the

577
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,480
man who kidnaps her basically you know that in the

578
00:36:38,519 --> 00:36:41,639
first few paragraphs, if that's not a spoiler, she survives

579
00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:50,519
their initial encounter. And what I did is I fell

580
00:36:50,559 --> 00:36:52,639
in love with the character. I fell in love with

581
00:36:52,679 --> 00:36:56,159
the storyline, and Joy was like, I love this so much,

582
00:36:56,199 --> 00:36:59,239
it should be a full book. And I was like, oh, okay,

583
00:37:00,119 --> 00:37:02,719
how do I Like, I'm already done, what do I

584
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,039
do from here? So what I did is. I took

585
00:37:07,639 --> 00:37:12,400
that as an opportunity to explore explaining the way that

586
00:37:12,519 --> 00:37:16,960
PTSD feels to me, So my descriptions in the book

587
00:37:17,079 --> 00:37:22,280
will not be the way experiencing PTSD feels to everyone.

588
00:37:22,519 --> 00:37:25,679
But at the time, I was having a really hard

589
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:30,639
time with nightmares. To a lot of people with PTSD experience,

590
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,760
and if you've never had a I usually refer to

591
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,039
them as trauma dreams. So if you've never had a

592
00:37:37,199 --> 00:37:42,039
trauma dream, it's not like a regular nightmare. It feels

593
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:48,519
more real than that. It feels like the biggest reference

594
00:37:48,559 --> 00:37:50,840
that people make are when you're a soldier and it

595
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,880
feels like you're back in battle, but there's not a

596
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,360
lot of references for the people who were not in battle. Right,

597
00:37:57,519 --> 00:38:01,840
So my story thing nothing like what was in my

598
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,079
book happened to me, But it's it's not that at all.

599
00:38:05,199 --> 00:38:07,679
It just was that I was looking for a way

600
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,760
to express the feelings that were drowning me at the time,

601
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,599
and I wanted to do it in a way that

602
00:38:15,679 --> 00:38:18,039
I didn't have to talk about what happened to me

603
00:38:18,199 --> 00:38:21,760
because I just still don't. I don't want to talk

604
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,239
about it like.

605
00:38:24,159 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: You talked about it with your therapist.

606
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 2: Exactly if you if you were exactly if you're talking

607
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,000
about it in therapy, if you're talking about it and

608
00:38:33,039 --> 00:38:36,320
you're safe with your safe people and you are still struggling.

609
00:38:36,679 --> 00:38:41,280
I turned to writing, and so I had this initial idea,

610
00:38:41,519 --> 00:38:44,400
and then I was like, what would it be like

611
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,679
to watch a like we already know she survived, she

612
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,559
is a final girl from the beginning pages, But what's

613
00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:55,239
it like after that? And that's what I went in

614
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,159
with the rest of the book to explore was was

615
00:38:58,199 --> 00:39:00,800
the after effect. And of course there's twin and turns,

616
00:39:01,159 --> 00:39:04,400
and there's ghosts, and there's spice, because that's just who

617
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,760
I am as a person. But the intent there was

618
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:16,079
to showcase the resiliency of human being a human and

619
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:22,239
experiencing something that shatters your idea and your expectation of

620
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,519
the world, and then learning how to put yourself back together,

621
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,400
because that's the part that there's not a lot of

622
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,760
people who are like, guess what, your world just got rocked?

623
00:39:33,199 --> 00:39:36,679
Like you know, it's like it's either the before or

624
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,519
the well after that we get. It's not the people

625
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:41,960
who are sitting in the middle of the mess and

626
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,599
being like I just I don't know how to feel better.

627
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,800
I don't want to feel like this. I miss who

628
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,119
I was before, but I don't know how to feel better.

629
00:39:52,559 --> 00:39:56,760
And yeah, I like I am better now. I'm like,

630
00:39:57,599 --> 00:40:00,440
am I am? I healed? No, but like I'm in

631
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,159
a better place than I was now when I wrote it.

632
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,480
But the act of writing it really was therapeutic for

633
00:40:06,559 --> 00:40:11,280
me because I got to give all of my symptoms

634
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,920
to a fictional character. But the act of doing that

635
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:19,679
really allowed me to look at it and see, like,

636
00:40:20,199 --> 00:40:22,559
because you know, there are days when you wake up

637
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:26,079
and you're like, I should I shouldn't still be struggling

638
00:40:26,119 --> 00:40:28,760
with this, or like, you know, it's the thoughts that

639
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,280
once you have a mental illness, they don't they get better,

640
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,679
but they don't necessarily go away. That's like you should

641
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,960
be over this by now, you're being over dramatic. You're

642
00:40:40,039 --> 00:40:43,599
imagining how bad this was. It's those thoughts like that

643
00:40:43,599 --> 00:40:47,400
that when they weren't mine anymore, and when they belonged

644
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,119
to a fictional character, I was able to look at

645
00:40:50,159 --> 00:40:53,119
it and be like, God, damn, look at me. Go

646
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,760
you know, im Peter what. I didn't face a serial killer,

647
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:03,440
but I'm doing a pretty fucking good. Yeah, yeah, so

648
00:41:06,199 --> 00:41:09,880
that is my That is my first novel. I don't

649
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:18,639
write a lot of happy things, but why, but why

650
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,960
there's always an element of happiness to it. But I

651
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:29,559
whether it's ghosts or whether it's my writing, I appreciate

652
00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:32,679
the happy moments. And I think it's hard for some

653
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,480
people who aren't curious about humanity or like human nature

654
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,159
in the way that I am, because it's like, I

655
00:41:40,159 --> 00:41:44,079
think that all emotions are meant to be felt. I

656
00:41:44,119 --> 00:41:47,719
think that the good emotions and the bad emotions, and

657
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,199
I think that sometimes the delicate weaving of the two

658
00:41:51,519 --> 00:41:54,960
are what it means to be human. It can't all

659
00:41:55,039 --> 00:41:58,079
be good and it can't all be bad, because then

660
00:41:58,159 --> 00:42:02,239
what's left if everything good, than what makes anything special?

661
00:42:02,639 --> 00:42:06,400
You know? It's like, do I want to have PTSD

662
00:42:06,639 --> 00:42:09,679
and feel the lowest of the lows as often as

663
00:42:09,679 --> 00:42:14,400
I do? No, not at all, you know. But also

664
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,960
I can recognize that when I'm having a bad day,

665
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,960
it makes me appreciate the good days that much more

666
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,639
because I do know, I do know what it's like

667
00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:32,039
to feel those depths, and I try to write from

668
00:42:32,039 --> 00:42:35,320
that perspective too, and that I don't use a ton

669
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,239
of descriptive language. I'm trying to get a little bit

670
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,440
better at that, but I write in a way that

671
00:42:41,679 --> 00:42:45,719
lets you imagine how it feels to be in that situation.

672
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,320
So if you read my book, it's scary because you

673
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,719
feel like you are having the emotions that she is feeling.

674
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,840
It's not that my wording is super scary. It's just

675
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,960
it's you're putting yourself in somebody else's shoes for a while.

676
00:43:01,199 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: I love monks. Yeah, Yeah, it's a safe way to

677
00:43:06,039 --> 00:43:09,760
learn things. It's a safe way to experience things that

678
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:14,000
are outside of your experience. And if you have actual

679
00:43:14,119 --> 00:43:19,320
empathy when you read, you can't help but get into

680
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:25,280
the shoes of whichever character is being written about, you know,

681
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:30,159
and you experience with them their life and the way

682
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:37,639
that they cope with awful shit, you know, just just terrible.

683
00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:42,000
I mean, you know, one of the things about being

684
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,960
an author is you come up with these characters and

685
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,760
you love them, but then you put them through awful,

686
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:55,440
terrible things. Yeah, because because if you don't, who's going

687
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:01,000
to read it. The point is to is to see

688
00:44:02,079 --> 00:44:05,679
what people endure and then come back from right or

689
00:44:06,039 --> 00:44:11,199
yes or they they surpass yes, what they beat are

690
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,360
faced with, yet they beat the.

691
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,199
Speaker 2: Odds and it makes you feel like you can beat

692
00:44:16,199 --> 00:44:19,960
the odds too. And that's like that That's what literature,

693
00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:23,400
That's what stories do for us, is that it gives us,

694
00:44:24,679 --> 00:44:27,719
even if it's like a fucked up kind of role model,

695
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,639
it's still someone to be like, you know what, if

696
00:44:31,679 --> 00:44:34,599
they can survive this, I can fucking get through this.

697
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,639
You know it even't like it doesn't matter that it's

698
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,480
not real. And that that is something that my friend

699
00:44:41,599 --> 00:44:45,039
Joy that my book is based off of. She would

700
00:44:45,079 --> 00:44:47,679
tell me a lot when I was still in Florida,

701
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,880
was like, pick a fictional character. It doesn't have to

702
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,239
be a perfect character. It just needs to be someone

703
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,760
that you look up to, someone that you can find

704
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:01,800
some hope in. Right, And this was before I started writing.

705
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,960
But for me it was Sherlock Holmes, Robert Jowney Junior,

706
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:06,440
Sherlock Holmes and.

707
00:45:08,679 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: P. T.

708
00:45:09,039 --> 00:45:11,519
Speaker 2: Barnum from the Greatest Showman in the movie, not in

709
00:45:11,559 --> 00:45:13,360
real life, because he was the piece of shit in

710
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,400
real life. Let me just say, oh, he's terrible.

711
00:45:15,639 --> 00:45:16,679
Speaker 1: It was terrible to me.

712
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 2: He was kind of terrible in the movie too, but

713
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,920
like in the Moon, not as terrible. But the aspect

714
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,559
of the movie that got me was that he thinks

715
00:45:25,599 --> 00:45:29,519
of the impossible things and he doesn't let logic tell

716
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:32,280
him why it won't work. And so by the time

717
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:37,000
I was already practicing this exercise, I already had PTSD.

718
00:45:37,079 --> 00:45:40,239
I didn't have the diagnosis yet, but I was unwell.

719
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:45,280
I was not a healthy person, right, And so I

720
00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:48,440
was being told to look to fictional characters. And that

721
00:45:48,559 --> 00:45:52,440
is something that I've done my whole life. I've always read,

722
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,559
read stories, and I've immersed myself in these fictional worlds.

723
00:45:57,639 --> 00:46:01,440
And now I've just learned to adapt what's in my

724
00:46:01,599 --> 00:46:06,559
mind onto pages. So like odds are you won't read

725
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,320
the happiest stories from me, Like they're they're they're gonna

726
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,880
end well and I build in happiness, but they're that's

727
00:46:14,039 --> 00:46:16,159
it's not the point of my writing, because it's not

728
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,840
the point of my existence. Like I don't like I

729
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,840
love I love rom comms, I love Happily Ever afters.

730
00:46:26,079 --> 00:46:30,280
It's just I am more interested in the people who

731
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:34,440
have been through the trenches, so to speak, and have

732
00:46:34,559 --> 00:46:35,960
come out and be like, you know what, you're a

733
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,760
little bit weird and you're a little bit fucked, But

734
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,840
you're my kind of people, So come on, let's go.

735
00:46:40,079 --> 00:46:45,239
You know. It's the Yeah, it's it's that. And recently

736
00:46:47,679 --> 00:46:52,599
it's been allowing me to explore hauntings and the pair

737
00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:56,559
normal in a new way as well, because I had

738
00:46:56,599 --> 00:46:59,480
a lot of freedom to explore that when I was

739
00:46:59,559 --> 00:47:05,519
in Flora. I had people around me that I could

740
00:47:05,599 --> 00:47:09,599
go out and explore with. But I also, like, I

741
00:47:09,679 --> 00:47:13,079
have a hard time going new places by myself, and

742
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,599
it's not a PTSD thing. That's the way that I've

743
00:47:16,639 --> 00:47:21,840
always been. I find new places really really intimidating and

744
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:27,320
really scary, and I love experiencing new things and I

745
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,199
love going new places, but I have a really hard

746
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:34,719
time getting there myself. So like if I was like,

747
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,079
I've never been to this place before and I want

748
00:47:37,079 --> 00:47:40,840
to go, it will take me a long time to

749
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,440
work up to doing it right. But in the aftermath

750
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:50,440
of having PTSD, sometimes that's a lot worse. And sometimes

751
00:47:50,519 --> 00:47:53,159
it's hard for me to go to the grocery store,

752
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,599
you know, or to do things that are easy for

753
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:04,000
other people to do. Because I am from Texas. I'm

754
00:48:04,039 --> 00:48:10,519
a Texan. Texans love our grocery store called AGB okay, Like, yeah, yeah, Texans,

755
00:48:10,599 --> 00:48:14,320
all Texans love chibhib is my favorite place. I go

756
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,880
to AGB sometimes, not even to buy stuff, just because

757
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,679
I like AGB. Right, It's like I don't have a

758
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,440
lot of places here and HB is my place. But

759
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,880
there have been times when going to the grocery store

760
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:29,559
was more than I could handle. I have had recently,

761
00:48:29,639 --> 00:48:31,960
I had a panic attack in Target and I was

762
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,840
feeling fine when I got there, but everything was loud

763
00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:39,559
and there was just too much happening at once, and

764
00:48:39,599 --> 00:48:42,880
I like, I left the store. I paid for my stuff,

765
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,920
but I didn't get half of it. And it's it's

766
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:51,000
those moments where I'm like, I want to explore more.

767
00:48:51,039 --> 00:48:53,079
I want to explore the paranormal more, but how do

768
00:48:53,119 --> 00:48:55,199
you do that when you're afraid to leave your house?

769
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:05,960
Enter fiction? Yeah, so it's you know, writing has done

770
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:11,000
a lot for me. On an alternate side of that,

771
00:49:11,079 --> 00:49:15,599
I have been exploring more about the paranormal through writing because,

772
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,519
as I mentioned before, I live with my parents, who

773
00:49:18,599 --> 00:49:22,320
are lovely, very supportive in taking me and my kids

774
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:28,039
and my pets into their house. But it's not like

775
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,519
what I do isn't necessarily like like we don't talk

776
00:49:33,519 --> 00:49:39,440
about it, you know. So it's just like, and in

777
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,400
my current situation, it's easier for me to put those

778
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,840
things into a world of fiction than it is to

779
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,239
be like, this is what I do, because I could

780
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,920
be like, look, i've written a book. Yeah, so ye,

781
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:57,119
writing has given me the keys to freedom in a

782
00:49:57,159 --> 00:50:03,039
way that I didn't expect and I wasn't anticipating, Like

783
00:50:03,159 --> 00:50:05,840
it wasn't necessarily on my bingo card for my life

784
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:11,079
to like end up where I am. I would have

785
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:15,920
liked to avoid the severe mental damage. But I also

786
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,199
can look at the trajectory that my life has taken

787
00:50:19,519 --> 00:50:22,760
and the lessons that I've learned talking to ghosts and

788
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,760
investigating and all the different things that I've learned how

789
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,519
to do, and from where I'm at now, I can

790
00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:33,199
also see that, like is it unfortunate? Yes, I can.

791
00:50:33,559 --> 00:50:37,119
I can give myself that sympathy that, yeah, it sucks

792
00:50:37,159 --> 00:50:41,320
to be where I am. But also I didn't lose

793
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,519
any of those things. I'm just translating them in a

794
00:50:44,519 --> 00:50:50,280
different way than I used to, so like it's different, yeah,

795
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,239
but I'm proud of it, you know. I like where

796
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,000
I'm at.

797
00:50:54,559 --> 00:51:00,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now do you do readings from a distance still,

798
00:51:01,199 --> 00:51:05,280
I mean, do you so pull cards, you know, for

799
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,360
other people or other investigators?

800
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 2: I will if you I do for investigators, and I

801
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:18,280
will for people. I don't charge, which is like counterproductive.

802
00:51:19,119 --> 00:51:23,199
But I have had a really big problem with scam

803
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:27,599
accounts on my page, So it just is not something that, like,

804
00:51:30,119 --> 00:51:35,400
with what was happening in my personal life, it wasn't

805
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,000
sustainable for me to try to be like, no, that's

806
00:51:39,039 --> 00:51:41,280
not me, that's not me, that's not me. You should

807
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,480
buy this from me, but this isn't me, you know.

808
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:47,440
It's like I removed that from the table for my

809
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:54,320
own mental health, where like the the scam accounts that

810
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,199
I was facing, like it got real bad for a while,

811
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,400
but the scam accounts that I was dealing with the

812
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,280
worst of it coincided at a time when my personal

813
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,920
life was also at very rocky points. So for me,

814
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:12,840
it's not that the scam accounts themselves are this bad.

815
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,480
It's just that it puts my mind into a place

816
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:21,519
where things were that bad. So I don't do personal readings.

817
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:24,800
I will, Like if you messaged me and you're like, hey,

818
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,199
can you help me with this, I will. I don't

819
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,320
charge for them, and that way I could keep up going.

820
00:52:31,679 --> 00:52:33,440
It's just not me. Just don't worry about it because

821
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,440
it's not me. And if you are investigating and you

822
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,239
would like help, I do investigate from a distance. I

823
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:45,079
love to do that. I'm happy to do that literally anytime.

824
00:52:46,599 --> 00:52:52,199
I work with a couple of friends Scottie the Medium

825
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,400
he's on TikTok and Melissa the ghost doctor, who's on

826
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,599
Instagram and on TikTok, and we do most of our

827
00:52:58,639 --> 00:53:03,920
work from a distance to so hopefully more in the future.

828
00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:07,599
But yeah, that's you really just have to like, if

829
00:53:07,639 --> 00:53:10,840
you message me, I'm pretty good at responding to my messages.

830
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,280
I don't catch all of them, but I'm pretty good

831
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,280
at responding in my messages. And that is something that

832
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,400
I love to do and I really missed doing, especially

833
00:53:19,519 --> 00:53:23,519
where I'm at right now. It's just like it's that

834
00:53:23,639 --> 00:53:30,360
like I can't advertise it too much because yeah, yeah, yeah.

835
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 1: Oh mom, that's just my friend the witch. You're gonna

836
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:34,239
go talk to the ghost.

837
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah.

838
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:43,079
Speaker 1: You know that graveyard down the road, there's ghosts waiting.

839
00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:49,199
I told him i'd be there by midnight. Yeah, that's

840
00:53:49,199 --> 00:53:51,159
not gonna say.

841
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, So you know, but that that is how to

842
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:58,039
do it. If you, I will add the the extra

843
00:53:58,119 --> 00:54:02,719
warning that I normally get people in the way that

844
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,880
I read taro is more for what's going on with

845
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:11,760
you mentally emotionally. I don't do fortune telling. So if

846
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:13,800
you come to me and ask if you will ever

847
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,440
find love or are you going to get this job?

848
00:54:17,079 --> 00:54:19,320
Can I ask that question in my card? Yes? Will

849
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:25,079
the answer be what you want? Probably not? So, yeah,

850
00:54:25,079 --> 00:54:30,119
I understand, you know, Yeah, it's I'll do my best

851
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:34,039
to give you the correct answer. But if you come

852
00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:36,719
to me asking about your love life, I'm probably gonna

853
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:38,960
tell you why you think you're not worthy of being

854
00:54:39,039 --> 00:54:43,079
loved if I'm being if I'm being perfectly honest, like,

855
00:54:43,119 --> 00:54:44,920
that's what it's gonna come down to. It's not that

856
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:46,840
you haven't met the right person. It's that you feel

857
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:48,199
like you don't deserve the right person.

858
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 1: So well, but that's true, and ye's actually a useful answer.

859
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:55,280
Speaker 2: It is a useful answer.

860
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:57,199
Speaker 1: But people don't always want the useful way.

861
00:54:57,199 --> 00:55:00,159
Speaker 2: People don't want the useful answer. People want the the

862
00:55:00,199 --> 00:55:04,400
live TikTok readings that or the videos that say he

863
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,960
left you and he's going to come back and I

864
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:08,039
don't do that kind of reading.

865
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. Yeah yeah. So when you when you

866
00:55:22,159 --> 00:55:26,920
think about to row cards, how much of it did

867
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:35,199
you learn from traditional to row sources like books? Not

868
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,000
necessarily the little tiny booklet that they give you, which

869
00:55:38,039 --> 00:55:41,559
is whatever it is, It is what it is.

870
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 2: Let's just I love those well to an extent, to

871
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:45,760
an extent.

872
00:55:45,559 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but but how did did you learn it

873
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,679
from books? Or how did what is your method?

874
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 2: So I did learn it from books, I I think. Actually,

875
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:00,519
I'm pretty sure that this is my first hair right here.

876
00:56:00,519 --> 00:56:03,679
It's just like a basic yeah, right orway. So I

877
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,480
had the Oracle cards first. So I the Angel Deck

878
00:56:07,599 --> 00:56:12,519
by Dreene Virtue, and I started by shuffling and asking

879
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,199
what do I need to know today? And I would

880
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,239
just pull one card, and then once I was feeling

881
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:20,960
like I was understanding the one card, I moved on.

882
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:26,599
So now my daily pulls are wild. I never know

883
00:56:26,679 --> 00:56:29,320
how many cards are gonna come out. Like, I still

884
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:30,599
do the same thing. I'm like, what do I need

885
00:56:30,639 --> 00:56:33,119
to know today? And I, you know, I pull and

886
00:56:33,159 --> 00:56:38,199
however many cards comes out comes out. But I used

887
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:43,119
bitty taro is. It's a big account, but I got

888
00:56:43,159 --> 00:56:46,559
her guide book and I actually have it on my

889
00:56:46,679 --> 00:56:49,480
little trunk over here. The pages are literally falling out

890
00:56:49,599 --> 00:56:55,599
of the book. So I use a blend of intuition

891
00:56:55,960 --> 00:57:00,480
and the basic card meaning in that I enjoy diferencing

892
00:57:00,519 --> 00:57:04,679
what the card actually means. I like, I like getting

893
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:08,440
decks made by artists, and I like reading their guide

894
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:12,079
books because sometimes what they mean for the card is

895
00:57:12,159 --> 00:57:16,119
different than the traditional card. Yes, two of my favorite

896
00:57:16,119 --> 00:57:19,920
examples of this are the I think it's called the

897
00:57:20,039 --> 00:57:23,679
hurt taro. It's really beautiful. I'll send you a picture

898
00:57:23,679 --> 00:57:26,079
after this, and then the Horror Taro, which I've been

899
00:57:26,159 --> 00:57:29,840
using a lot recently, and the meetings are different, the

900
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,559
wording is different, and it changes the traditional meetings. So

901
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:39,679
I will When I was first learning how like, I

902
00:57:39,719 --> 00:57:42,800
would pull cards and I would look up the cards meetings,

903
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:46,119
and I would get my journal and I would write

904
00:57:46,119 --> 00:57:49,039
the card. I would write the keywords or whatever I

905
00:57:49,079 --> 00:57:51,880
was taking away from the meaning, and then I would

906
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,760
write how it applied to me so or how I

907
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,679
saw it applying to me in my life in that moment.

908
00:57:59,039 --> 00:58:02,760
So those are all packed, but those exist somewhere. There's

909
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,400
just journals of me being like I pulled the three

910
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:11,599
of swords today, you know whatever. And so now I

911
00:58:11,679 --> 00:58:15,320
read Taro in a combination of the two because I

912
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:20,039
don't need the guide book. I like the guidebook because

913
00:58:20,039 --> 00:58:22,719
sometimes little phrases will pop out at me, so like

914
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:26,039
I enjoy I enjoy it when that happens because I'm like, oh,

915
00:58:26,079 --> 00:58:28,599
I didn't think about that way to go, you know.

916
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:32,679
But it's it's a blend of both for me, and

917
00:58:32,719 --> 00:58:35,280
I know people that will look more at the imagery

918
00:58:35,519 --> 00:58:38,840
or will that stick to the core energy of the

919
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:42,519
card or this or that. But I think that that's

920
00:58:42,559 --> 00:58:47,079
what makes reading Taro so fun is that it is subjective.

921
00:58:47,239 --> 00:58:53,119
There's no right or wrong way, and my method isn't

922
00:58:53,199 --> 00:58:56,400
necessarily right. It isn't necessarily wrong either. It's a little

923
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:00,119
it's a hodgepodge of all sorts of different things, and

924
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:04,000
it looks different from day to day. Sometimes I'll pull

925
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,719
my cards out and be like, oh my god, okay,

926
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:08,760
I get it, and I'll put them away, and then

927
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:11,719
the next day I'll do the exact same thing, and

928
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:13,639
I'll be like, oh, I should look that card up,

929
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,199
and I'll look it up, and I'll have a whole detailed,

930
00:59:16,519 --> 00:59:18,639
you know, journal like I used to do it. Just

931
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,639
it just kind of depends. But that is one thing

932
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,480
that when I was learning to read Taro, I also

933
00:59:27,559 --> 00:59:30,840
was in a lot of Facebook groups, which I'm I said, already,

934
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:32,679
I'm not on Facebook a ton, like I have a

935
00:59:32,719 --> 00:59:36,480
Facebook page, I'm just not super active on there. But

936
00:59:36,639 --> 00:59:38,599
in the Facebook groups, they would always be like, if

937
00:59:38,639 --> 00:59:40,840
you're not reading on intuition, then you're not a real

938
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,960
reader and so and I'd be like, okay, I guess

939
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:47,239
I'm not a real reader then you know, okay, but

940
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:51,519
I'm over here with my guide books and being like fuck, yeah, yeah, yeah,

941
00:59:51,679 --> 00:59:53,880
look look at that ten of cubs. I didn't see

942
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:59,559
that one coming, you know. It's like it's it's I

943
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:02,039
just I just think that it's such a personal tool.

944
01:00:02,719 --> 01:00:07,320
And it's like I love how mainstream and how popular

945
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:09,800
Taro has gone, because like I can go to Barnes

946
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:11,920
and Noble and buy a new Tarot deck if I

947
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,480
really want to, Like, they're there even in my like

948
01:00:14,559 --> 01:00:19,280
small Texas town, there are there's a spirituality section. I

949
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:24,239
love how accessible it is, but I also don't love

950
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:27,000
that there are so many people out there that are

951
01:00:27,079 --> 01:00:29,880
like this is the way to read taro or like

952
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:34,159
and this is the only way. And again you can

953
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,239
follow my life trail back and be like, she just

954
01:00:38,239 --> 01:00:40,000
doesn't like to be told what to do because the

955
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,039
way she grew up, And that's absolutely true. I don't

956
01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:46,599
like it if you tell me what to believe, I

957
01:00:46,599 --> 01:00:49,079
will immediately say no, thank you. I don't like that.

958
01:00:51,079 --> 01:00:54,239
And it applies to my spiritual practice too, and that

959
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,000
I have. I used to share a lot more of

960
01:00:58,039 --> 01:01:00,800
my practice on my page. If you go back far enough,

961
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:04,199
it was only taro. It was spelled candles, it was

962
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:07,679
bind rooms, it was things like that. And I really

963
01:01:07,719 --> 01:01:13,119
pulled a lot away from that, partially because what was

964
01:01:13,199 --> 01:01:17,480
happening in my personal life mixed with the scam accounts

965
01:01:17,599 --> 01:01:20,039
just made it to where I was like, this is

966
01:01:20,119 --> 01:01:23,320
important to me. This is important enough to me that

967
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:25,800
I'm not gonna share this all of the time. And

968
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:30,639
it's been hard finding like my footing on, Like I

969
01:01:30,679 --> 01:01:33,559
have this public platform, the fuck am I going to

970
01:01:33,639 --> 01:01:36,079
do with it? If I'm no longer the village Taro witch,

971
01:01:36,159 --> 01:01:38,960
you know, like that name is still there, but I

972
01:01:39,039 --> 01:01:44,320
go by Carly dot Latham now on Instagram and it's

973
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,440
I missed the days when I could just be like

974
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:57,360
my full, witchy self. But also I appreciate that now

975
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:01,800
it is more private to me, that those moments aren't.

976
01:02:02,079 --> 01:02:06,079
I'm I never I'm not one to manufacture the moment.

977
01:02:06,159 --> 01:02:08,280
So if I've posted about it, or if I'm talking

978
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:10,800
about it, it's because it happened, or it's because it's

979
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,519
on my mind. It's not just like I have to

980
01:02:13,559 --> 01:02:17,679
do something today, you know. But I do feel like

981
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:22,760
my relationship with spirituality and with the tools that I

982
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:28,519
prefer were damaged along the way. I mean, there's not

983
01:02:28,639 --> 01:02:32,159
a lot that PTSD doesn't affect once you've been diagnosed

984
01:02:32,199 --> 01:02:34,960
with that, and not even just that, but I could

985
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:39,800
say mental health in general. It's it's not like I

986
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:42,719
wanted that to be like the pocket that wasn't touched

987
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,239
and it could just be like this happy, safe space,

988
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:48,159
but that I don't want to use the word tainted,

989
01:02:48,199 --> 01:02:50,519
but that's the way it feels to me, like that

990
01:02:50,639 --> 01:02:56,559
my spiritual practice was tainted by the events that went

991
01:02:56,599 --> 01:03:00,239
on in my life. And so like now again I'm

992
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,679
leaning into the writing, but behind the scenes, I'm also

993
01:03:04,239 --> 01:03:09,880
working on rebuilding my personal relationship and my personal practice

994
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,559
because it got derailed so much in the process that like,

995
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:18,920
it's it's a weird one. It's a weird one to

996
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:22,079
talk to people about because that was the essence of

997
01:03:22,079 --> 01:03:24,360
my page for so long, and I've kind of been

998
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,960
like drifting in the wind for a for a long time.

999
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:29,599
For like the past year or so, I've been trying

1000
01:03:29,599 --> 01:03:34,199
to find like where what do I do? What do

1001
01:03:34,239 --> 01:03:37,920
I do with this platform that I've built, with these

1002
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,719
things that I'm so passionate about, And the answer for

1003
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:44,559
me has been writing. It doesn't mean that it's going away,

1004
01:03:44,719 --> 01:03:46,360
it doesn't mean that I'm not going to share these

1005
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:50,599
things about my life. It's just I've learned new tools

1006
01:03:50,599 --> 01:03:54,400
to channel that information so much in the way that, like,

1007
01:03:54,519 --> 01:03:58,199
if you had been following me for any amount of

1008
01:03:58,239 --> 01:04:03,440
time and you read my captions, they are usually fairly

1009
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,239
deep on whatever is on my mind at the time.

1010
01:04:06,599 --> 01:04:10,960
You know, I kind of I go all in for it.

1011
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,719
And you'll find that in my writing too, is that

1012
01:04:14,239 --> 01:04:18,239
I don't write happy things. And it's not that I'm

1013
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:21,119
not a happy person. It's just that there's so much

1014
01:04:21,159 --> 01:04:25,400
to explore if you give your self permission to see

1015
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:28,320
what's hidden just beyond the veil, or if you turn

1016
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:31,239
the lights off and you get comfortable with the monsters

1017
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,320
that are in the dark. You know, there's a whole

1018
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:37,199
world out there, and not all of it is scary.

1019
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:40,239
It's just that we're trained to believe that these things

1020
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:46,400
are bad. So I am retraining myself to have hope

1021
01:04:46,599 --> 01:04:52,199
and to believe in magic and to see the unknown possibilities.

1022
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:58,000
It's just the things that I love were tangled up

1023
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:07,000
in my mental illness. Yeah, yeah, that's that's yeah, I

1024
01:05:07,079 --> 01:05:08,320
understand that a lot.

1025
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:11,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I was involved in a court case

1026
01:05:11,159 --> 01:05:15,159
and you know, I got pointed at by a lawyer

1027
01:05:15,239 --> 01:05:18,199
who said she's a witch. She's a witch. Even her

1028
01:05:18,199 --> 01:05:21,840
own mother doesn't talk to her. You know, that'll that'll

1029
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:22,320
harden you.

1030
01:05:22,719 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1031
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 1: But then you know, after that was over, I still,

1032
01:05:28,719 --> 01:05:33,599
you know, had PTSD and bad dreams about it. But

1033
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,639
you know, I was like, well, I was outed, Yeah,

1034
01:05:36,639 --> 01:05:39,000
so I might as well do something with.

1035
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 2: It, might as well.

1036
01:05:40,599 --> 01:05:45,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I do understand, though, it does feel like

1037
01:05:47,239 --> 01:05:52,760
what you were doing to help people is then held

1038
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:58,800
against you. Yeah, And that's just that's just not a

1039
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:03,159
good feeling at and it it does make it feel tainted.

1040
01:06:03,639 --> 01:06:06,519
Speaker 2: It does. Yeah, I was having that conversation with a

1041
01:06:06,519 --> 01:06:10,840
friend of mine because it's not like it's not like

1042
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:13,760
I'm not proud of what I've accomplished, and it's not

1043
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:17,719
like I don't recognize that like I love what I do.

1044
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:21,559
I show up every day almost every day because I

1045
01:06:21,599 --> 01:06:24,320
love what I do. It's just like there is an

1046
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:31,920
element of I like I there's no going backwards. I

1047
01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:35,519
think that's what it is, is that, like I desperately

1048
01:06:36,119 --> 01:06:39,760
I want to go back in time. I want to

1049
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,440
be in the space that I was in before all

1050
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:47,880
of these things happened, where it just was like this

1051
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:49,960
is you know, this is what I'm sharing, this is

1052
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:52,039
what I'm good at. I'm going ghost hunting, I'm doing

1053
01:06:52,079 --> 01:06:54,440
all those things like that is where I want to be.

1054
01:06:54,559 --> 01:06:57,920
But that's not where I am. And the things that

1055
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:02,000
have happened in between have just made like it does.

1056
01:07:02,199 --> 01:07:07,119
It feels tainted. It feels like it feels like I

1057
01:07:07,159 --> 01:07:11,320
am reaching for a person's dreams who doesn't exist anymore.

1058
01:07:11,639 --> 01:07:14,440
And you know what I mean, like it is a

1059
01:07:14,519 --> 01:07:18,440
past version of me. So we were talking about me

1060
01:07:19,079 --> 01:07:21,079
haunting my own house. I forgot we were going to

1061
01:07:21,079 --> 01:07:23,000
talk about this, but this is the perfect transition.

1062
01:07:23,079 --> 01:07:25,639
Speaker 4: It's it's yeah, this is going in a circle.

1063
01:07:25,719 --> 01:07:27,360
Speaker 2: It is going in a circle. This is the perfect

1064
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:32,280
transition because my when I lived in Florida, it was

1065
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:35,360
the first time that I had the space and the

1066
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:39,800
freedom to really explore who I am without outside eyes

1067
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:43,960
looking in on me, without my family being like, you know,

1068
01:07:44,039 --> 01:07:47,119
you're pretty fucking weird or like, you know, they would

1069
01:07:47,159 --> 01:07:49,000
never say that to my face, but they say it

1070
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,760
with their eyes, so message received, you know, like h

1071
01:07:53,199 --> 01:07:56,440
it's things like that, where Like, it was really hard

1072
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:58,880
for me to move there because I've I lived in

1073
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,760
Texas my whole life. I'd never lived more than a

1074
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:05,079
car rides away from my family. But once I was

1075
01:08:05,119 --> 01:08:11,039
removed from that situation, I had this enormous experience and

1076
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:15,519
I was able to grow so much. Right so a

1077
01:08:15,599 --> 01:08:21,000
core part of my identity was built in my haunted

1078
01:08:21,039 --> 01:08:27,000
house in Florida. Right. So I made the decision to

1079
01:08:27,079 --> 01:08:31,159
move back in with my parents, And it was not

1080
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:35,279
an easy decision. It was a decision that I made

1081
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:39,720
knowing that I would be breaking my own heart in

1082
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:45,159
some ways, and I did. I cried, and I mourned

1083
01:08:45,319 --> 01:08:49,840
my life in Florida for months. I'm actually like rite

1084
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:52,920
about my one year anniversary of moving here, and I

1085
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:56,159
still feel like I am going through the grief process

1086
01:08:56,199 --> 01:08:59,760
like I had. I had a really good life in Florida.

1087
01:09:00,079 --> 01:09:03,600
I had really good friends, but it wasn't healthy and

1088
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:08,439
I needed help to regain my health, and there was

1089
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:12,279
a bunch of other big factors at play. But I

1090
01:09:12,359 --> 01:09:14,279
made the choice to move back in with my parents,

1091
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:20,439
and recently my house in Florida is on the market now.

1092
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:26,319
I signed the paperwork to put it up and I

1093
01:09:26,399 --> 01:09:32,960
was going through those emotions because while I had a

1094
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:38,079
lot of time to discover myself and who I am,

1095
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:41,439
I also had some of the worst experiences of my

1096
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:44,800
life in that house. So it was it was both

1097
01:09:45,239 --> 01:09:49,439
all at once. And so when my house went on

1098
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:53,159
the market, it's something that I had been waiting for

1099
01:09:53,159 --> 01:09:55,920
for a very long time. I've known that this was coming.

1100
01:09:56,359 --> 01:09:58,720
It's you know, there were there was some logistics that

1101
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:00,560
needed to be worked out before or it could get

1102
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:04,279
put on the market, and so once once it went on,

1103
01:10:05,319 --> 01:10:10,039
it was like I had a few days where I

1104
01:10:10,079 --> 01:10:13,840
felt like I felt the depths of being like this

1105
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:18,479
is my home, though like this is my home I

1106
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:22,159
live with my parents. I can't even like I can't

1107
01:10:22,199 --> 01:10:26,039
read cards outside of my room. Like I felt, I

1108
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,119
felt trapped, and I felt limited in a way that

1109
01:10:29,199 --> 01:10:34,239
I don't like feeling. Because anybody who reads taro I

1110
01:10:34,239 --> 01:10:35,640
will say that it's more of like an aid of

1111
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,520
sores energy where you're feeling like you're trapped and like

1112
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:40,439
there's no way out. There is a way out, it's

1113
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:44,319
just it doesn't feel that way. And so I was

1114
01:10:44,319 --> 01:10:48,600
stuck in that moment where I was like, I really

1115
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:52,159
don't want to live here. I'm grateful that I have

1116
01:10:52,279 --> 01:10:54,600
this safe space to come to and that I was

1117
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,159
able to recuperate here, but I don't want to live here.

1118
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:01,920
I missed my life, I missed my friend. And I

1119
01:11:02,039 --> 01:11:07,119
cried so much that day. And it wasn't that exact day,

1120
01:11:07,159 --> 01:11:09,920
but it was. It was around then and I had

1121
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:15,199
this dream and in my dream, my house was empty

1122
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:18,119
like it is right now. It wasn't like when I

1123
01:11:18,159 --> 01:11:20,760
lived there, and it had furniture, it had my decorations

1124
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:24,399
and it had I used to paint the walls of

1125
01:11:24,399 --> 01:11:26,960
that house. I would just like sometimes I was dressed,

1126
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:29,720
sometimes I was bored, but I painted like a flower

1127
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:32,199
mural on a wall, and I had a chalkboard wall,

1128
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:34,680
and I had a wall that was covered in yellow

1129
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:39,800
polka dots, and it had my personality. It had so

1130
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:42,760
much of my love poured into that house. And so

1131
01:11:44,199 --> 01:11:47,319
in my dream, I was walking through my house and

1132
01:11:47,359 --> 01:11:50,680
it was empty, and I could see that they had

1133
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:54,439
painted the walls, and I remember touching the walls and

1134
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:59,800
feeling the texture of you know, the whatever wall texture

1135
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:04,359
they put on. And the dining room was one of

1136
01:12:04,399 --> 01:12:07,439
my favorite rooms in that house. It's where I filmed

1137
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:11,680
a lot of content for my Instagram page. It was

1138
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:15,680
like there was these shelves built and I had all

1139
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:17,880
my oddities on there, and it just was a room

1140
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:21,760
that I loved. The kids didn't really use that room.

1141
01:12:22,159 --> 01:12:24,880
I loved the dining room. We didn't eat there. It

1142
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:27,279
just was a spot for me to like sit and

1143
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:32,680
do whatever, excuse me, do whatever. But there was a

1144
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:35,680
spot on the ceiling where when I painted that wall,

1145
01:12:36,039 --> 01:12:38,600
I got dark blue on the ceiling and I never

1146
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:41,159
fixed it because it's my toxic trait. I don't know

1147
01:12:41,279 --> 01:12:43,560
what buck. If you live with me, I am a

1148
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:45,520
paint of the ass. I will paint stuff and then

1149
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:47,960
I will leave it half finished for months until I

1150
01:12:48,039 --> 01:12:52,319
finish it, or I will have these like it's not

1151
01:12:52,359 --> 01:12:54,479
really manic, but for lack of a better word, I

1152
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:57,399
call it like manic when I'm painting flower murals on

1153
01:12:57,439 --> 01:12:59,399
the walls, you know, and I do things like get

1154
01:12:59,399 --> 01:13:01,600
paint on the seat and I just never go back

1155
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:06,119
and fix it. And I noticed in my dream that

1156
01:13:06,119 --> 01:13:08,399
that spot had been painted over, and it made me

1157
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:13,239
so sad because it was I was like, I was like,

1158
01:13:13,279 --> 01:13:17,399
it looks really nice. They painted that room was dark

1159
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:21,039
gray now, so they repainted it, but the house is

1160
01:13:21,079 --> 01:13:24,479
still empty. But it was this moment where I do

1161
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:26,760
a lot of dream traveling, which we haven't gotten into,

1162
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:29,439
so that sounds like kind of out of left field.

1163
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:31,920
I'm sure your listeners will be through it anyways, though.

1164
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:33,640
But I do a lot of dream traveling, and those

1165
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,960
dreams feel different. It's not like your normal dream because

1166
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:39,640
you don't have that level of awareness. Like I was

1167
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:43,880
actively processing my emotions while I was standing in my

1168
01:13:44,079 --> 01:13:47,359
house in Florida, and it was my house, no one

1169
01:13:47,359 --> 01:13:49,880
else was living in there. It wasn't like a weird

1170
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,880
in between space. That was my house as it is

1171
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:59,079
right now, empty and freshly painted. You know, And so

1172
01:13:59,199 --> 01:14:03,439
the next morning I woke up and what I usually

1173
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:06,600
do when I have these experiences is I will talk

1174
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:08,239
to a couple, I will talk it over with a

1175
01:14:08,279 --> 01:14:10,720
couple of my friends, and then I'll usually grab my

1176
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:14,279
cards and be like, what was this? You know, Like,

1177
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:18,159
what did I just experience? So from what I've been

1178
01:14:18,199 --> 01:14:23,880
able to tell, that was me astral traveling, like whatever language,

1179
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:28,439
whatever terminology you want to use. I missed my life

1180
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:32,399
and I missed my house, and I traveled back to it.

1181
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:37,000
I went there in my sleep, and I feel like

1182
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:39,439
I interacted with someone. I can't remember that one right now,

1183
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:41,880
but like that was the core of the moment that

1184
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:46,039
I didn't want to be here. I didn't want to

1185
01:14:46,039 --> 01:14:48,760
be in this house. I wanted my space, I wanted

1186
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:51,079
my freedom. So I went back to the last place

1187
01:14:51,119 --> 01:14:53,039
that I had it, which was my house in Florida,

1188
01:14:54,319 --> 01:15:00,399
and I started talking about it and Jordan. Jordan Keith

1189
01:15:00,479 --> 01:15:03,439
and I had been talking a lot recently about different

1190
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:08,399
ghost theories and what a haunting even is, and that

1191
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:13,600
led me to the most fascinating question to me, which is,

1192
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:16,640
if another person had been there, would they have been

1193
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:20,359
able to feel me there? Because you know how they

1194
01:15:20,399 --> 01:15:22,680
say that, like when you move things around in a

1195
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:25,760
house or when there's renovations, it stirs the spirits up.

1196
01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:30,000
My walls got painted, and I was sad about it.

1197
01:15:30,199 --> 01:15:34,359
Me a living human, which just makes me wonder about

1198
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:38,520
so much about hauntings in general. I have a million

1199
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:42,399
and one different haunting theories. But in this particular instance,

1200
01:15:43,279 --> 01:15:46,680
I am dying to know if somebody else had been there,

1201
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:49,960
would they been able to sense me? Would they have

1202
01:15:50,079 --> 01:15:54,159
been able to feel the grief that I felt in

1203
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:58,239
knowing that I have to give up my home that

1204
01:15:58,399 --> 01:16:02,880
like this. I know why I don't live there, I

1205
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:05,159
know why I can't move back there, but this is

1206
01:16:05,199 --> 01:16:08,199
still my home, and I'm still sad about it, you.

1207
01:16:08,199 --> 01:16:18,800
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, Yeah, it's really interesting I have. I have

1208
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:27,039
dreams all the time about my last childhood home and

1209
01:16:27,239 --> 01:16:30,560
my ex mother in law's home which I lived in

1210
01:16:31,399 --> 01:16:40,920
for a period of time. And I don't know if anybody,

1211
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:45,640
I mean, I know somebody's living in my old childhood home,

1212
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:49,760
but I know that my mother in law still lives

1213
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:56,720
in her home, and she has some of my letters

1214
01:16:56,760 --> 01:17:02,960
and poems and writings away in her attic. She never

1215
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:03,680
gave them back.

1216
01:17:05,319 --> 01:17:08,079
Speaker 2: So that's a piece of you in her attic, uh

1217
01:17:08,199 --> 01:17:13,159
huh huh, and her heart felt piece of you yeaheah.

1218
01:17:12,399 --> 01:17:18,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, her house was already haunted. So I can't help

1219
01:17:18,239 --> 01:17:21,000
but think, is there a part of me, you know,

1220
01:17:21,119 --> 01:17:25,359
my twenty something year old self floating around up in

1221
01:17:25,359 --> 01:17:26,920
that attic, around that box?

1222
01:17:27,039 --> 01:17:27,319
Speaker 3: Right?

1223
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:28,479
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1224
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:31,880
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, if anybody could see me, it.

1225
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:35,960
Speaker 2: Could could somebody see if if I walked into my house,

1226
01:17:36,079 --> 01:17:38,960
if I wasn't me and I walked into my house,

1227
01:17:39,199 --> 01:17:42,399
would I be able to feel that that piece of me,

1228
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:46,239
that part of me that still exists there. That's that's

1229
01:17:46,279 --> 01:17:50,600
the question, and that that's what makes everything that what

1230
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:54,600
that we do so interesting, whether it's like you know,

1231
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:57,279
I write about it in a fictional sense now, but

1232
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:01,720
like it. It's that kind of curiosity for the way

1233
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:05,000
that the world works, and to say, what if, what

1234
01:18:05,079 --> 01:18:07,680
if you're still in your mother in law's attic, What

1235
01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:09,960
if twenty year old you is still really upset that

1236
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:13,399
you didn't get your poems back? What if the me

1237
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:17,640
that went through everything that I did in Florida is

1238
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:21,520
still there and still being like I'm here, what do

1239
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:24,279
you mean? I live here? This is my house.

1240
01:18:25,199 --> 01:18:29,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like it. It's like

1241
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:31,960
the living version of the movie the.

1242
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 4: Others exactly, yeah, exactly.

1243
01:18:35,159 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 1: And and if that's the case, WHOA I know that

1244
01:18:39,039 --> 01:18:40,680
has a lot of implications.

1245
01:18:41,079 --> 01:18:45,640
Speaker 2: It's it's wild to me. Well, I started noticing when

1246
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:47,560
when I got to my parents' house and I didn't

1247
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:50,359
have the constant influx that I had when I was

1248
01:18:50,399 --> 01:18:56,439
in Florida. I started to notice that the spirits that

1249
01:18:56,520 --> 01:19:00,239
seek me out more often than not are women who

1250
01:19:00,279 --> 01:19:03,680
have seen some shit or children sometimes, right, I don't.

1251
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:05,600
Every once in a while I get a man, but

1252
01:19:06,239 --> 01:19:08,880
most of the time I get women who want to

1253
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:11,720
tell me what happened to them. And I started thinking

1254
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:14,880
about it because sometimes they're able to tell me all

1255
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:17,640
about their life, and they'll tell me what their childhood

1256
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:21,119
was like, and they'll tell me beyond the moment of pain.

1257
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:27,199
But I also have spoken to several spirits who seems

1258
01:19:27,239 --> 01:19:30,520
to only exist in their pain. Like when I had

1259
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:32,439
asked about their childhood, it.

1260
01:19:32,319 --> 01:19:39,920
Speaker 3: Was like like like a fuzzy radio where it's like

1261
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:43,159
the coming in and out and then they loop around

1262
01:19:43,199 --> 01:19:46,640
and they repeat the same message of this is what

1263
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:48,880
happened to me, This is what I'm feeling.

1264
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:53,600
Speaker 2: I'm upset about this, and in the past I didn't

1265
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:57,119
necessarily disregard, but I didn't have a lot of experience

1266
01:19:57,199 --> 01:20:02,560
with spirits who were like splintered. Like really, the the

1267
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:05,319
idea of the concept, the theory that a piece of

1268
01:20:05,359 --> 01:20:08,640
your soul is stuck in that moment of pain, and

1269
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:11,319
it's not that you're unable to move on, it's just

1270
01:20:11,359 --> 01:20:14,319
that you don't know that you're not in that moment anymore.

1271
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:19,760
So like mm hmm, you in your former in laws attic,

1272
01:20:20,439 --> 01:20:24,920
it reasonably could be a piece of you. And maybe

1273
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:29,319
the reason why these spirits can't give more than that

1274
01:20:29,399 --> 01:20:32,359
moment is because that's all that matters. That's all that's

1275
01:20:32,439 --> 01:20:34,239
real to them, is that the rest of them is

1276
01:20:34,319 --> 01:20:37,000
moved on, and for whatever reason, it's just this piece,

1277
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:43,000
this sliver of their life that impacted them so much

1278
01:20:43,159 --> 01:20:46,920
that a piece of them is still reliving it, which

1279
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:51,079
sounds terrible and kind of sad, but that's why people

1280
01:20:51,119 --> 01:20:55,760
like us exist to saying, Okay, what about that, then.

1281
01:20:56,800 --> 01:20:59,720
Speaker 1: Let's let's see if we can release that. That's not

1282
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:02,960
good good. Well, that's the thing that I learned in

1283
01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:09,399
shamanic training was soul retrieval is that when traumas happen,

1284
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:13,560
sometimes a bit of the soul just just like I

1285
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:15,439
can't deal breaks up, I'm out of here.

1286
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:17,239
Speaker 2: Yep, yeap, Like it depends.

1287
01:21:17,319 --> 01:21:22,560
Speaker 1: But what happens is that it gets stuck and then people,

1288
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:29,199
you know, wander around with pieces of themselves. Yes, exactly,

1289
01:21:29,239 --> 01:21:30,920
and that's that can't be good.

1290
01:21:31,039 --> 01:21:33,600
Speaker 2: It can't be good. It can't be good. I like

1291
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:37,279
to reference Foldemort from Harry Potter with that with the horcruxes,

1292
01:21:37,319 --> 01:21:40,039
because he did that on purpose, So that is that

1293
01:21:40,159 --> 01:21:42,840
is a distinction. He did that to himself, and these

1294
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:44,920
cases are not like nobody is.

1295
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 1: Like, cool, I'm gonna do this.

1296
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 2: Sounds fun, you know what sounds great? Haunting my house

1297
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:56,279
in Florida forever? Oh yeah, yeah it is. It's just

1298
01:21:57,479 --> 01:22:01,960
it's interesting to me, like what what does make a ghost?

1299
01:22:02,079 --> 01:22:04,279
And there I'm sure that there's times in the past

1300
01:22:04,319 --> 01:22:05,880
that I've been like, I'm pretty sure that this is

1301
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:07,920
what a ghost is, and now I'm like, I don't know.

1302
01:22:08,319 --> 01:22:10,560
It could be so many different things. It could be

1303
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:12,560
so many different things, and it could be different things

1304
01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:14,520
all at once just to make it more confusing.

1305
01:22:15,399 --> 01:22:19,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree. We should we should do another

1306
01:22:19,159 --> 01:22:22,359
episode just about ghosts and what we think they are?

1307
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:23,279
Speaker 2: It would be fun.

1308
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:28,079
Speaker 1: That's just it's such a can of worms and it.

1309
01:22:28,119 --> 01:22:34,399
Speaker 2: Is yeah, it's a uh yeah, yeah, it's a can

1310
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:39,439
of worms. And there's just there's so many theories. And

1311
01:22:40,239 --> 01:22:42,880
I will say I am a skeptical believer, so I

1312
01:22:43,319 --> 01:22:46,359
tend to believe things that I've experienced. And so, like,

1313
01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:49,640
I had already been like noticing this pattern of like,

1314
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:54,439
you know what I'm I don't get people's loved ones

1315
01:22:54,439 --> 01:22:56,520
who have passed on and been like, hey, can you

1316
01:22:56,600 --> 01:22:58,239
tell so and so that I really love them and

1317
01:22:58,319 --> 01:23:01,119
I missed them. No, I don't get ghosts like that.

1318
01:23:01,359 --> 01:23:03,239
And I had already been like in the process of

1319
01:23:03,279 --> 01:23:05,680
being like why is that? What is it about me

1320
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:08,439
that I'm like, like, what frequency do I shine on?

1321
01:23:08,560 --> 01:23:11,279
That's like, hey, ghosts, tell me your most fucked up stories,

1322
01:23:11,319 --> 01:23:13,920
because I want to hear them. I do to be fair,

1323
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:19,960
But you know, it's like, I don't know if I

1324
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:22,439
hadn't already been thinking about those things when I had

1325
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:25,880
that dream of my house in Florida, would I have

1326
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:30,560
entertained the idea that I had actually been in my

1327
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:35,199
house in Florida, Or would I just have logically assumed

1328
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:38,560
that I was homesick and I didn't like my situation,

1329
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:41,279
so I'm dreaming about it, you know what I mean.

1330
01:23:41,399 --> 01:23:45,159
It's like it's those small differations in thought that like,

1331
01:23:45,359 --> 01:23:47,640
it doesn't mean that both are not true because I

1332
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:51,880
was unhappy, I didn't want to be here, But that

1333
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:55,760
doesn't mean that I wasn't actually there either. Yeah, and

1334
01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:57,279
that's the wild part to me.

1335
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:03,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I will get of corroborating testimony that I

1336
01:24:04,159 --> 01:24:08,199
certainly don't want to be in my ex mother in

1337
01:24:08,279 --> 01:24:11,479
law's attic at all. No, that's the place I always

1338
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:14,079
dream about, Yep. I mean I dream about the rest

1339
01:24:14,079 --> 01:24:16,159
of the house too, but the attic is but.

1340
01:24:16,159 --> 01:24:19,600
Speaker 2: The attic, specifically the attic is where you have the

1341
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:25,520
tie to your belonging still in the attic. So that, Yeah,

1342
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:27,319
it makes perfect sense to me.

1343
01:24:28,239 --> 01:24:31,399
Speaker 1: Exactly it does. But you know, I didn't want to

1344
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:35,640
go there, so it may be that, you know, sometimes

1345
01:24:35,680 --> 01:24:40,560
we just go where we want or go where we

1346
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:41,920
were left. Yep.

1347
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:46,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it can be both. Like I will

1348
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:49,520
say that I have I do not know how to

1349
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:52,520
travel places on purpose. I've been trying to experiment with

1350
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:54,760
it because like I'm like, well, I'm doing this more

1351
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:57,439
and more, I might as well figure out how it works.

1352
01:24:58,439 --> 01:25:02,439
I have no clue. I have no clue, but it

1353
01:25:03,159 --> 01:25:06,720
has been interesting once you were if you're willing to

1354
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:09,479
open your mind to the possibility that some of these

1355
01:25:09,479 --> 01:25:12,239
things could be real and to just kind of track

1356
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:15,279
like it doesn't even have to be like, well, tonight,

1357
01:25:15,359 --> 01:25:16,680
I'm going to go to sleep and I'm going to

1358
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:20,600
go to Bermuda or whatever like that sounds fantastic. First

1359
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:23,920
of all, I love a beach, but it for me,

1360
01:25:24,119 --> 01:25:28,359
it's almost more like, huh, this thinking is happening. I

1361
01:25:28,399 --> 01:25:30,399
should make note of it and see if there's a

1362
01:25:30,439 --> 01:25:34,840
pattern here and see see where it leads me.

1363
01:25:38,399 --> 01:25:40,520
Speaker 1: And my case, I would never go to Bermuda because

1364
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:43,159
I'd get stuck there because you know the triangle that

1365
01:25:43,279 --> 01:25:48,479
you know. I just watched the like my compass has spinning,

1366
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:49,319
I can't get home.

1367
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:53,039
Speaker 2: I watch I watched The Adams Family yesterday, so it

1368
01:25:53,079 --> 01:25:56,760
was on my mind where Wednesday was like, nobody gets

1369
01:25:56,760 --> 01:26:04,920
out of the Bermuda triangle. But yeah, that's that is

1370
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:08,560
that That is me and hauntings in a nutshell, that's

1371
01:26:10,439 --> 01:26:14,600
I believe a lot of different things are possible. I

1372
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:17,439
think that more things about hauntings are true than I

1373
01:26:17,479 --> 01:26:20,000
am aware of, than I know, than I probably will

1374
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:22,960
ever know. And I think that that's true for most things.

1375
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:26,760
And I'm okay with that. I like I like the unknown.

1376
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:35,560
I like exploring. I like I like theorizing and trying

1377
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:38,560
to figure out what could be real, even if I'm

1378
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:40,319
a skeptical asshole for half of it.

1379
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:48,239
Speaker 1: Oh, you know, when I'm experiencing something, I am skeptical.

1380
01:26:49,199 --> 01:26:51,880
It's all that out. I sit there, you know, there's

1381
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:54,239
a light in the sky and it's doing weird crap,

1382
01:26:54,920 --> 01:26:57,399
and I'm looking at it, going, uh, is it a plane?

1383
01:26:57,920 --> 01:26:59,279
Speaker 4: Is it not?

1384
01:27:00,119 --> 01:27:04,159
Speaker 1: They a light's okay? Is it No? There's no strobe. Oh,

1385
01:27:04,199 --> 01:27:07,199
it's changing colors and it's doing a right angle turn.

1386
01:27:07,359 --> 01:27:10,119
It's definitely not a plane. Okay. You know, is it

1387
01:27:10,199 --> 01:27:13,600
a drone? Because now we have to worry about drone right?

1388
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:13,840
Speaker 2: Oh?

1389
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:17,479
Speaker 1: Yes, but they have to have a specific light as well.

1390
01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:21,079
So I'm like, what is it? There's no noise, you know.

1391
01:27:21,159 --> 01:27:23,479
So I sit there and I run through all of

1392
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:27,880
these different things, and but when people tell me stories,

1393
01:27:28,119 --> 01:27:28,800
I don't.

1394
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:31,039
Speaker 4: Do that because I'm like, I'm in the same way.

1395
01:27:31,199 --> 01:27:36,199
Speaker 1: No, these these people have experienced something, and you know,

1396
01:27:37,039 --> 01:27:39,600
I believe if they're going to talk about it yep,

1397
01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:42,239
in front of people, that they've experienced it.

1398
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:46,119
Speaker 2: In the same way, Because what what benefit do you

1399
01:27:46,199 --> 01:27:49,199
have from talking about these things? Like, like I have

1400
01:27:49,279 --> 01:27:52,000
stories that make me I literally just told you that

1401
01:27:52,079 --> 01:27:54,399
I dream traveled to my house in Florida, right, But

1402
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:56,880
like I have wilder stories than that, And like, if

1403
01:27:56,920 --> 01:28:01,279
I'm willing to say that, it's because I I understand

1404
01:28:01,359 --> 01:28:03,479
that it happened to me, and I feel like other

1405
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:07,239
people deserve that same respect, where like I might not

1406
01:28:07,439 --> 01:28:12,159
understand what happened to you, but I will always try

1407
01:28:12,199 --> 01:28:14,720
my best to be open minded and to listen to

1408
01:28:15,039 --> 01:28:19,800
your experience, because was it actual, paranormal? Was it not?

1409
01:28:20,079 --> 01:28:22,760
I don't know, but it happened to you, and that

1410
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:29,520
makes it real. And that's the thing. If you experienced

1411
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:32,600
it and it's real to you, then it is real.

1412
01:28:32,880 --> 01:28:36,239
It's not fake. It's not you know, like is there

1413
01:28:36,960 --> 01:28:40,479
a muggle interpretation? Maybe sometimes there is, Yeah, but that

1414
01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:42,800
doesn't mean that it wasn't a real event that you

1415
01:28:43,119 --> 01:28:46,800
experienced exactly exactly.

1416
01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:52,960
Speaker 1: I am so the same way, because I truly see

1417
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:58,239
no benefit in people just making up stories right like.

1418
01:28:58,159 --> 01:29:00,680
Speaker 2: That, well, especially in the hair, nor if you're.

1419
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:02,560
Speaker 1: Gonna write it down and get money for it.

1420
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:06,560
Speaker 2: I'm right, yeah, Like I have yet to be able

1421
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:11,479
to transform any of my like actual encounters onto paper

1422
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:14,600
because I'm so obsessed with getting all the details right.

1423
01:29:14,680 --> 01:29:18,359
And I'm like, who who would subject themselves to this?

1424
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:25,359
This is terrible? This is absolutely terrible. But yeah, and

1425
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:30,239
especially if you look at alien abductions or or hauntings

1426
01:29:30,640 --> 01:29:33,039
or possessions, which I'm a little bit on the fence

1427
01:29:33,039 --> 01:29:35,920
about if I'm being perfectly honest, there are so many

1428
01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:40,319
cases that involve the strange and unusual that automatically get

1429
01:29:40,479 --> 01:29:45,079
cast with such suspicion and doubt that like, why would

1430
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:50,680
anyone get up here and be like, this thing happened

1431
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:53,279
to me? Let me tell you all about it, because

1432
01:29:53,319 --> 01:29:58,920
you sound a crazy.

1433
01:29:56,920 --> 01:29:59,880
Speaker 1: And do you really want to sound crazy right public?

1434
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:07,479
Speaker 2: You know, like the yeah, it's if it's like a

1435
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:09,960
clear money grab, then I'm a little bit wary. But

1436
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:13,880
most people aren't trying to do that, and most people

1437
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:17,359
are terrified when they're telling you about what they've experienced.

1438
01:30:17,359 --> 01:30:19,680
Some like they'll they'll be telling you stories and they'll

1439
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:23,199
start shaking or really reliving it.

1440
01:30:23,039 --> 01:30:29,319
Speaker 1: And choke up. Ye can't speak exactly. Yeah, every everyone

1441
01:30:29,399 --> 01:30:33,079
I've talked about who's had those intense experiences, there is

1442
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:37,159
the truth right there in their voice and on their faces.

1443
01:30:37,239 --> 01:30:37,479
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1444
01:30:37,479 --> 01:30:41,279
Speaker 1: And even though I don't post the video, I'm still

1445
01:30:41,359 --> 01:30:47,159
looking at them exactly while we're talking. Yep, and they're

1446
01:30:47,159 --> 01:30:50,560
not they're not. They're not bullshitting. You're telling the truth

1447
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:53,520
as they understand it, as they experience.

1448
01:30:53,119 --> 01:30:55,800
Speaker 2: As they understand it, as they experienced it, which makes

1449
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:59,319
it real. And that's another thing that I like to explore,

1450
01:30:59,359 --> 01:31:02,720
but maybe not everybody does that. Technically, that is the

1451
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:05,960
fabric of reality. It's because you experienced it that means

1452
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:11,119
it is real. It's your reality. Yeah it's not, is

1453
01:31:11,159 --> 01:31:14,760
it everyone? Maybe not? But it's yours. It's yours. That

1454
01:31:14,920 --> 01:31:18,279
is your experience. And we are honored to be the

1455
01:31:18,319 --> 01:31:21,359
people that get to hear those experiences and whatever we

1456
01:31:21,439 --> 01:31:26,199
do with them. I again, I haven't done any of

1457
01:31:26,239 --> 01:31:28,319
these readings for quite some time, but if I have

1458
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:33,199
had someone ask me for a paranormal reading, I will.

1459
01:31:33,520 --> 01:31:36,439
I will share the reading without sharing any details and

1460
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:39,399
so basically I will say I was asked to do this,

1461
01:31:39,399 --> 01:31:42,279
this is what I've learned, but without giving any details

1462
01:31:42,319 --> 01:31:44,800
about the person or too much about the case itself,

1463
01:31:44,920 --> 01:31:50,680
because to me, that moment is private. And I even

1464
01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:52,640
have people be like, no, no, you can share all

1465
01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:55,640
the details. You can give all of this, And sometimes

1466
01:31:55,720 --> 01:31:58,560
I share more on those ones if I'm like really sure,

1467
01:31:58,640 --> 01:32:03,840
but it's like, you know, it's it. It's an honor

1468
01:32:04,039 --> 01:32:09,439
to hear any of these stories. Like I miss being

1469
01:32:09,520 --> 01:32:11,960
in the position where I heard more of them and

1470
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:15,319
I got to interact more with them. But the ones

1471
01:32:15,359 --> 01:32:17,039
that I've been able to hear and the ones that

1472
01:32:17,079 --> 01:32:20,159
I've been able to share have done so much for

1473
01:32:20,319 --> 01:32:25,640
me in opening my mind up. So like, even if

1474
01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:28,239
you want to look at the paranormal in that sense

1475
01:32:28,319 --> 01:32:30,840
that like, okay, you don't believe in ghosts, but what

1476
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:35,239
did you learn from the situation or if this isn't paranormal,

1477
01:32:35,319 --> 01:32:38,359
Like what did you think when you were feeling those feelings?

1478
01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:40,920
You know? I just I think that there's so much

1479
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:49,159
to be learned by studying people's experiences period, whether it's supernatural,

1480
01:32:49,199 --> 01:32:53,520
whether it's not supernatural, and being one of those people

1481
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:56,399
that gets to hear this crazy thing happened to me,

1482
01:32:56,920 --> 01:32:59,399
What do you think about it? Is one of my

1483
01:32:59,439 --> 01:33:02,800
favorite things that I don't get to do as often anymore,

1484
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:04,199
but I really appreciate it when I do.

1485
01:33:05,359 --> 01:33:12,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it fascinates me in a lot of ways.

1486
01:33:12,279 --> 01:33:17,840
It makes me feel hopeful in a way about reality

1487
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:21,399
that you know, the reality I've been living in since

1488
01:33:21,479 --> 01:33:24,800
I was a kid is not so crazy. After all,

1489
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:28,760
there are other people moving through that reality, right you know.

1490
01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:31,680
They may not be moving through right at the exact

1491
01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:36,640
place I was at and am at, but they're in there, yep.

1492
01:33:37,279 --> 01:33:41,960
And every person I hear from who you know, then

1493
01:33:42,079 --> 01:33:47,039
stabilizes there, you know, after telling their story, I feel

1494
01:33:47,039 --> 01:33:52,439
like just listening yep was helpful to them and was

1495
01:33:52,479 --> 01:33:54,880
healing to them. And that means a lot to me

1496
01:33:55,000 --> 01:33:59,279
to be able to say, you know what, you're not crazy? Yeah, yeah,

1497
01:33:59,319 --> 01:34:01,000
at all? It is.

1498
01:34:01,079 --> 01:34:04,800
Speaker 2: It's an important moment to be like, yeah, thank you,

1499
01:34:05,039 --> 01:34:08,560
because when you see the relief that they have, it's

1500
01:34:08,720 --> 01:34:14,000
just it's really nice. And I'm not always able to

1501
01:34:14,119 --> 01:34:18,000
provide answers. I'm always honest about it if I don't know,

1502
01:34:18,840 --> 01:34:22,920
but you know, I'm not always able to provide the answers.

1503
01:34:23,119 --> 01:34:26,680
But what I am able to do is to sit

1504
01:34:27,479 --> 01:34:32,399
and listen and at least just hold space for the

1505
01:34:32,479 --> 01:34:36,600
thing that you experienced. And you know, there's definitely times

1506
01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:41,560
when I haven't really had much to say or like besides, like, whoa,

1507
01:34:42,079 --> 01:34:45,279
I can't believe that just happened, you know, but it

1508
01:34:45,399 --> 01:34:52,439
still is. It's a really cool part of being in

1509
01:34:52,479 --> 01:34:57,520
this community is knowing that people trust you enough to

1510
01:34:57,640 --> 01:35:01,640
come to you with these bizarre stories and say this

1511
01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:04,199
happened to me, and know that you're not going to

1512
01:35:04,279 --> 01:35:06,640
turn away and you're not going to tell them that

1513
01:35:06,680 --> 01:35:11,159
they're imagining it or that they're crazy, because they've probably

1514
01:35:11,279 --> 01:35:14,800
been hearing that their whole lives anyways, and the fact

1515
01:35:15,079 --> 01:35:19,560
that they've approached you means that they've already thought. Maybe

1516
01:35:19,640 --> 01:35:22,880
not every time, but a lot of the time, people

1517
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:24,720
have already thought about like what are they going to

1518
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:26,880
think about me if I bring ghosts up right now?

1519
01:35:27,399 --> 01:35:29,399
What are they going to think about me if I

1520
01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:33,279
say I'm pretty sure my house is haunted, or you know,

1521
01:35:33,399 --> 01:35:38,399
things like that. So just being someone that people feel

1522
01:35:38,479 --> 01:35:43,760
comfortable coming to and saying I experience something heavy, whether

1523
01:35:43,880 --> 01:35:49,199
it's real life trauma or it's something supernatural and just

1524
01:35:49,399 --> 01:35:54,920
listening is It's big for me, and a lot of

1525
01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:59,640
that translates into my writing now. But at my core,

1526
01:36:00,479 --> 01:36:03,920
what I love doing is exactly this. It's talking ghosts,

1527
01:36:03,960 --> 01:36:10,479
it's theorizing. It's helping people understand their experiences in a

1528
01:36:10,520 --> 01:36:13,600
new light if I can, and if I can't, then

1529
01:36:14,159 --> 01:36:19,119
that's okay too. But I like exploring people's memories with

1530
01:36:19,199 --> 01:36:23,640
them and saying, you know, well, how did that feel.

1531
01:36:23,760 --> 01:36:26,479
I mean, that's like a normal therapist question, but like

1532
01:36:27,399 --> 01:36:30,479
you know, exploring it with cards or with the metaphysical,

1533
01:36:30,840 --> 01:36:35,279
or taking those moments and turning them into a story

1534
01:36:35,680 --> 01:36:37,479
like I did with my life, where it's like this

1535
01:36:37,560 --> 01:36:42,279
isn't me anymore, but it's it's all, as Jordan likes

1536
01:36:42,279 --> 01:36:45,560
to say fingers. On the same hand, it's it's exploration

1537
01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:48,720
into the unknown. I'm just using different tools than I

1538
01:36:48,840 --> 01:36:53,239
used to, and it's it's an adjustment, but I love it.

1539
01:36:56,000 --> 01:36:59,479
Speaker 1: I agree. I agree, that's the best part of having

1540
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:03,159
a podcast asked and I love being able to say

1541
01:37:03,199 --> 01:37:07,319
to people no, no, this this is real and it's

1542
01:37:07,359 --> 01:37:10,640
okay yep, and you will be okay.

1543
01:37:10,359 --> 01:37:13,000
Speaker 2: You will be okay. It's gonna be hard, but you're

1544
01:37:13,039 --> 01:37:13,800
gonna be okay.

1545
01:37:15,039 --> 01:37:20,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah, I just I just feel

1546
01:37:20,079 --> 01:37:22,159
like it's it's an important thing to do.

1547
01:37:22,399 --> 01:37:26,079
Speaker 4: So yeah, here we are here, we are doing it.

1548
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:30,520
Speaker 1: Yes, doing the thing, as we say in our family,

1549
01:37:30,600 --> 01:37:33,520
doing the thing, doing it right, not fucking up, and

1550
01:37:33,560 --> 01:37:34,920
it works. It just works.

1551
01:37:36,199 --> 01:37:40,199
Speaker 2: That's amazing. I love that doing the thing, doing it

1552
01:37:40,319 --> 01:37:42,399
right and it just works. I'm gonna use that now.

1553
01:37:42,600 --> 01:37:47,960
My favorite thing to say is, well, I say, feel

1554
01:37:48,039 --> 01:37:51,359
the fear and do it anyways. That's what I and

1555
01:37:51,399 --> 01:37:54,239
that's what braves exactly. You know what, you could be

1556
01:37:54,279 --> 01:37:56,119
as scared as you want and you still do the

1557
01:37:56,119 --> 01:37:59,319
fucking thing and way to go. Even if it didn't work.

1558
01:37:59,479 --> 01:38:02,479
Speaker 1: You did so yeah win, but did it even though

1559
01:38:02,479 --> 01:38:06,439
you were skar did it exactly it yep. Yeah, And

1560
01:38:06,479 --> 01:38:08,039
that's that's the way to be.

1561
01:38:08,279 --> 01:38:11,760
Speaker 2: That's the way to be. Yeah.

1562
01:38:11,800 --> 01:38:18,600
Speaker 1: Well, well, thank you so much. I was looking forward

1563
01:38:18,680 --> 01:38:19,039
to this.

1564
01:38:19,039 --> 01:38:22,239
Speaker 2: This is great, This was wonderful. Thank you so much

1565
01:38:22,279 --> 01:38:24,800
for talking to me. This has been a lot of fun.

1566
01:38:25,600 --> 01:38:28,960
Speaker 1: It has been fun, and you're welcome back anytime. I'd

1567
01:38:28,960 --> 01:38:31,560
really love to talk ghost theory with you. Oh yeah,

1568
01:38:31,600 --> 01:38:34,359
I love that and yeah, yeah, yeah, that'll be fun.

1569
01:38:35,399 --> 01:38:39,359
Speaker 2: That would be super cool. I would love that. So yeah,

1570
01:38:39,359 --> 01:38:39,800
thank you.

1571
01:38:40,560 --> 01:38:44,880
Speaker 1: Thank you. Well that's all for this week's episode of

1572
01:38:44,920 --> 01:38:48,119
the Six Degrees of John Keel podcast. If you have

1573
01:38:48,239 --> 01:38:51,199
any questions or thoughts about the podcast, or would like

1574
01:38:51,279 --> 01:38:54,199
to come and talk about your experiences of the paranormal,

1575
01:38:54,640 --> 01:38:59,000
you can contact us at six d JK six seven

1576
01:38:59,119 --> 01:39:03,319
at gmail dot dot com. We promised even answer you,

1577
01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:07,319
and we are always happy to hear from you. Thank you,