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Speaker 1: Golf Smarter number four hundred two, published on September seventeen,

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twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain

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insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the

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Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets old. Our

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interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations

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like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.

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Speaker 3: We haven't figured out fully that being present is the

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access to success, getting out of your head and the

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future and past outcomes that we're in these scenarios all

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the time, just being there, feeling the club sets in

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your body, being with a target wherever you choose. To me,

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that's the only way I've ever accessed great performance. And

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yet my mind, like everybody else's mind, has concerns about

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outcomes and how I'll look and what people will say.

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And the whole story is the whole bit like every

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other human being. And that's automatic. It's just going to happen. Now,

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the question is can I observe it happening? Oh, my

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mind just said, don't hit it right, let it alone

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and come back to the task at hand. See, that's

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what you chain a tournament player to be able to

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let cove an irrelevant thought, observe it, let it alone,

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and come back to the task at hand. That's called

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coming back, and that's what great tournament players have to do.

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Most people get lost in these I'm three over for four.

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If I can call the next six, I'll shoot thirty

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nine of them. That it isn't all ware. You go

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this way to death, Yes, and we don't even know

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that we're gone.

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Speaker 1: The secret to transforming your game with Fred Shoemaker of

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Extraordinary Golf.

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Speaker 2: This is Golf Smarter sharing tips and insights from golfers

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and golf professionals to help lower your score. It's worked

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for your host, Fred Green.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Golf Smarter. Fred.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Fred, it is great to.

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Speaker 1: Have you back on the show. It's been a long

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time since we've spoken.

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Speaker 3: Not that long, but it's nice to be here again.

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Speaker 1: Well, in the weekly world of podcasting, it's been way

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too long, because I do receive emails from Golf Smarter

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community and from your community asking when you're going to

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be back. So I'm really happy to.

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Speaker 3: Have you back. Terrific. Let's have some fun today.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So in preparation to do this, I spent the

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weekend because I was traveling. This weekend, I went back

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to read The Extraordinary Golf The Art of the Possible,

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which is not dated at all, but clearly you wrote

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it a while ago, and there's ways you talk about

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things that seems like it's been a while.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think the basic principles are the same, but

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we've all evolved.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. Basic principles are very clear and succinct, no question.

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And I was amazed in reading it again and so

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happy that I was reading it again because I would

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come up to lines that I highlighted in the book

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that I went I wouldn't highlight that this time. You know,

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there was other things that were lead up to it

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that how we're much more profound for me, And hopefully

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it's because I've evolved somewhat, but more so that I've

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evolved as a golfer and.

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Speaker 3: Have a.

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Speaker 1: Greater awareness about what is going on as I'm playing golf,

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as I'm swinging my golf club, as I'm walking the

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golf course, and so it is so much of what

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extraordinary Golf is is awareness. And I'm just so happy

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to know that after years of having the mindset from

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the book that it truly works and it is part

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of my golfing life.

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Speaker 3: Well, maybe it's the only thing that does work. Just

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being present here now, whether it's with your swing or

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whether you're in a communication with your friends, being on

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the golf course. You know, people have said now for

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forty years basically that I'm much happier when i'm present.

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When I'm here and I'm in my head, it's a

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very different world. So that's that you're saying that.

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Speaker 1: I think it's great, well done, Oh thank you. But

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after reading it for the weekend, I came home from

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from my trip and told my wife, look, I go

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to bed early. I gotta I want to see some

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of the DVD.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: The new DVD called Extraordinary Golf The Secret to Transforming

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Your Game, which I understand it's a it's a golf

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DV golf instructional DVD. I would call it the Secret

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in Transforming you.

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Speaker 3: M Well, I'm happy you got that out of it,

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but I don't think you can separate you from your

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golf game if you're going to transform something. But I

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did to start with yourself.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, and I and that's what what I loved

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about the DVD beyond the production value, which it's it's

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really a beautifully produced video. The the quality of the

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production is first rate. It's not some guy standing, you know,

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setting up tripod and standing in front of it twenty

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feet away and you can barely hear him. You had

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a very very professional movie making team.

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Speaker 3: At least it was a good Yes, it was a

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terrific team.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But watching the DVD, I got so much more

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than I did from the book. Watching you work with people,

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watching you know, because you do it, you work with

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one person and it goes back and forth with you

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working with one person and then working with a group.

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Speaker 3: We wanted to give an honest appraisal of how learning

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takes place, because most of the time, when you see things,

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somebody says, well, I just changed my grip and everything

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worked out fine. No it doesn't. There is not getting it.

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It's part of getting it. And we wanted to take

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a look at how we did that with an individual

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and we did it with a group, and there's nothing there.

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There's no editing in terms of let's try it again,

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let's do a different cut, let's get a better one.

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This is let's turn on the cameras and give a

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real sense of how learning takes place, and that's what

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we wanted to do. Well.

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Speaker 1: Not getting it is getting it is exactly what struck

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me because the multiple times that we've had conversations, you

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would ask me a question, I'd answer it and I'd

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feel kind of stupid, like I think I get it.

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I kind of understand right, And it was so nice

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to see other people's faces not saying that they didn't

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get it, but it's like, oh okay, they kind of

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feel stupid saying yes they get it, but you can

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see their heads spinning, like I need to process this

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more before I answer you.

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Speaker 3: Well, if I questions any good, it's going to take

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a little bit of thinking and looking and experiencing to

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make a difference. We're so used to the first, already

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made answer to pop out, rather than let's say, let

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me look at this for a while, let me run

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it through my experience and come out with my own answer,

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and that the answer of that or the the experience,

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it makes a difference, not the teacher's answer.

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Speaker 1: Right right. It's not like the teacher, And that's what's

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so beautiful about this. It's not like you ask a

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question looking for a specific answer. There's no right or

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wrong answer. You want honesty. You want the person to

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really think about what's going on with them, and it's

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going to be very different than the other person. Yes.

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Speaker 3: Yes, some of the most important things in life we

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don't learn in school. I mean, we don't learn about

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how to be present and getting out of our head

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in first grade. We don't learn about self trust in

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second grade, or being able to deal with fear and doubt,

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or how to honor a commitment in grammar school. These

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are the most important things that they need to be

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looked at and worked with and have a person come

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out the other side with a greater capacity than when

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they started with. And that's what we're looking at in

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the video.

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Speaker 1: For those in the audience who are here, your name

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and you speak for the first time, can you give

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a summation of I don't know if I want to

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ask for the summation of Extraordinary Golf or the DVD. Well.

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Speaker 3: I've done approximately forty two thousand individual lessons at about

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one one hundred golf schools, and I haven't got of

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a lot of conclusions, but I have some tentative conclusions. First,

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awareness which is the simple act of being present is

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maybe the only thing that cures, heals develops people. Like

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I said in probably another podcast, Fred, that the difference

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between you and I when we play is that I

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experience more of where the club is when during swinging

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than you do. I probably have a greater sense of

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my body and what makes a difference by the experience

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of solid contact. So that's the first thing. And the

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second thing is that human beings are unique and in

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many ways already whole and complete, and instead of trying

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to fit them into some preconceived emotion or the swing,

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d joure having people discover what they already have. See

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if a golf school works really great after three days

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people come out being themselves and seeing how terrific that is,

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where their awareness highly heightened. Another thing about it I

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would say about the DVD Extraordinary Golf, is how people's

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actions and behavior are shaped by their point of view.

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Most people, if you just a simple way of seeing

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this is the balls, not the target. The target's out there,

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and when your actions and behavior are related to that,

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it's a very different game. Then please let me hit

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the ball or survival. And the last thing we intend

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it on the video to show an environment without evaluation

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or judgment in which rapid complete learning could take place.

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And my experience, that's the only environment that learning can

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take place. So how can we, as bl student and

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coach learn to let go of a judgment when it

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arises and come back to the task at hand rather

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than that was good, and that was bad, and that

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was better, And give me another one of those to

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actually begin to create a space in which a person

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can be more present to the experience that's happening. And

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it's the experience that teaches them, not the teacher. I mean,

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I know we've talked about this before, but if you

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had to learn to ride a bicycle, we could go

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to the dictionary and study balance. That wouldn't help you.

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Your buddy could talk to you about balance. That wouldn't

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help you. But getting on the bike and actually the

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distinction balance comes all in one moment. You just get it,

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and when you get it, it's yours. And we're saying

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that maybe golf was like that. Maybe the great distinctions

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of where's the club face, swing plane, solid contact, alignment,

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and letting go in freedom, maybe those can only be

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discovered and can't be taught, we're creating an environment which

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that could happen. So that's kind of in a nutshell.

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Speaker 1: In the book, you had this one little analogy in there.

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As a parent, I've always felt like you really cannot

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teach your children from your experience, and that people seem

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to I get frustrated watching people saying, well, I did

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it this way, so that's how it's supposed to be done,

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you know. And yet, as you point out in the book,

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we don't teach a child how to walk. They have

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to learn how to do it themselves. They have to

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fall down, they have to understand balance innately before they

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can start walking. But it seems like from that moment

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on after they're walking, we're telling them how to do everything.

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We don't let them experience it themselves.

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Speaker 3: Well, think of all the things we learned early in life,

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you know, speech and balance and socialization skills and a

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hundred other things that we learned before the age of

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concepts and information began to be dominant, usually before the

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age of five. Those are usually the things that were

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best at in life, and after that point, understanding, concepts

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and information come higher up in our hierarchy and the

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experience goes down. And I know, I've just noticed throughout

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all these years that people learn best from their experience,

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and they learn best by struggling and not getting it.

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In other words, it takes a while to get something.

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But unless you can go through the struggle, and when

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you do and complete it, it's yours at that point,

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I mean, all development. I wouldn't necessarily call it a struggle.

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I would maybe call it more than once. A lot

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of people will try something in the driving range. After

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two or three shots, it doesn't work, We'll go into

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something else. Rather than saying can you stay until it

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gets done? See, it would be like this. I've noticed

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that very few people ever complete solid impact, solid hitting

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on a go of a golf ball. And if you

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don't get that, it's difficult to go on to the

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next place. It would be like if I was play

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tennis and hit the ball all over the middle of

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the racket, and the tennis teacher would say, hey, let's

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go on to court management. I would say, that's pretty

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early to do that. I need to learn to hit

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the ball first. Now, Fred, if if you knew without

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a doubt you were going to hit a ball solidly,

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let's say a fifty yard shot, Okay, got imagine that.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 3: If you knew you were going to hit it solidly,

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what would you pay attention to during the swing and

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before the swing you're sure you're going to hit it solidly,

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what would you pay attention to? So?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well I would avoid avoid the voices in the

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head going, you know you hate a fifty yard shot.

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Speaker 3: Okay, but you know you're gonna hit it solidly.

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Speaker 1: But I know I'm going to, so I'm walking up

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with total confidence.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, what would you pay attention?

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Speaker 1: I would pay attention. Probably here we go again with

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like feeling stupid about these answers about the target.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, me too. And if you find that you're not

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paying attention to the target having a relationship with it,

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then you can be sure you never completed solid hit

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and your body is saying to you, nope, I'm sorry.

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You've got to get this done first before you go

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out there. And there's a point in people's golf games

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when they really kind of get golf that solid hit

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becomes something that you take for granted. Another doesn't concern you.

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I'm not talking about this perfectionist thing. The ball goes

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about the height you want at about the distance you want,

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and there's no doubt it's going to happen. Now, even

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if you do hit one fat, there's no concern on

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the next one. Now, when you get that, the whole

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world of golf changes is it will never change again.

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What becomes availability to create creativity, the capacity to sense

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shots when you feel them in your body, the ability

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to step on a tee and really play the golf

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course the architect asked for, and you get a sense

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you can hit shots. And one of the things we're

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looking at, at least in the DVD, is how does a

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person get to the point where they can complete this

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so it gets done? I mean, imagine you're walking and

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you're never sure you were going to be on balance,

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or you drove a car and you're never sure what's

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going to stay on the road. It would be a

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scary endeavor. And I think for golf for most people

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is like that. It's at a mostly at survival stage.

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Please let me hit the ball and don't look silly.

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Did you ever read any of There's something in psychology

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in college though called Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and it

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was a little pyramid instead of the base of human being.

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There's air, of food, water, and shelter, and after that

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you can get to creativity and community and all these

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other things. But if you haven't got that, there's nowhere

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else to go. And in golf, that baseline before there's

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nowhere else to go is to complete solid hit. And

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when you get that, all these other things are available

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to you. And I think of the fundamental fundamental. I

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used to think it was letting go in freedom. I

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thought if people could get that, boy, golf would really

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take off. But I've noticed in the last decade the

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thing that people really ask for and concern about and

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talk to each other about, and all these nice comments

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about are a solid shot. So if it is such

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a concern for us, and in fact almost like a need,

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if you will, let's get it done. Go on to

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the next thing that's much more interesting. So anyway, that

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was a long discourse on how different I'm seeing golf

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now than it was ten years ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't worry about long. I'm doing about I'm

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good with long. Why is it you know? I mean

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we know that experience is the best here. And as

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a solopreneur, failure is critical to my success. Because I

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learn nothing, especially on the golf course. But I learn

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nothing from doing things right, because then I'm just repeating

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what I've tried to do, what I think I did right.

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Speaker 3: If you're not failing and not stretching yourself.

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Speaker 1: Right, and the golfer and on the golf course just

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cannot handle even you know, failure could be missing a

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putt from four feet, which is not failure.

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Speaker 3: Well, I said to a friend of mine, one of

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our coaches, about twenty years ago, I said, I think

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you'll become a golfer when learning is more important to

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you than the outcome of shot. And he took this

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on and he could say honestly some years later that

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that had actually transformed in him. See, we get so

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hooked on outcomes at every moment that we give ourselves

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very little space in which to learn and develop ourselves.

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And it's you know, you and if you watch TV

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and a golf telecast, you have, you know, two or

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three hours in which that's all you hear about good shot,

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bad shot, winning, losing right wrong, who's good, who's not,

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what this will mean to his legacy, et cetera. It's

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all about outcomes. You don't get a two hour discourse

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on the fascination of learning, on the joy of learning,

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and when when you can be over a shot, Like

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if I step to the first teach, I was pretty

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much like this. Okay, you know you have to do

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a golf school.

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Speaker 1: I stepped there.

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Speaker 3: Everybody's oh, there's all what's his name? He'd watch him

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hit it? Okay, so I step up, and my mind says,

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almost always, if you mishit it, it'll invalidate the workshop. Okay,

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thank you for sharing, because it says that forever it's

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not big deal. But I can actually choose. I could say, listen,

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wherever this ball goes. It may go straight, it may

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not go straight, but I'm going to sure darn well

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feel what it does. I'm going to experience what happens,

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and I'm to learn from this shot. And this shot

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is going to make a difference on the next one.

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And I've noticed when I am that way, there's no

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pressure at all, and I'm really into the shot, and

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I find I just love that. Now, I love the

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first d.

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Speaker 1: And that will impact your success. And I'm sorry if

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I use the word success.

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Speaker 3: Why is it after one hundred years in this game,

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we haven't figured out fully. That being present is the

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access to success, getting out of your head and the

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future and past outcomes that were in these scenarios all

359
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the time. Just being there, feeling the club, sensing your body,

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being with the target wherever you choose. To me, that's

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the only way I've ever accessed great performance. And yet

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my mind, like everybody else's mind, has concerns about outcomes

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and how I'll look and what people will say, and

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the whole story is the whole bit, like every other

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human being. And that's automatic. It's just gonna happen. Now.

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The question is can I observe it happening? Oh, my

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mind just said, don't hit it right, let it alone,

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and come back to the task at hand. See, that's

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what you chain a tournament player to do. I was

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doing that later this afternoon. The fellow is going to

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be trying for tour school to be able to let

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go of an irrelevant thought. You observe it, let it alone,

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and come back to the task at hand. That's called

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coming back, and that's what great tournament players have to do.

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Most people get lost in these You know, I'm three

376
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over for four, and I make it if I can

377
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par the next six. I'll shoot thirty nine of them

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that are in all way. You go this way yes, death, yes,

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and we don't even know that we're gone in some

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sort of in scenario story and coming back is quite

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a remarkable thing. It's a talent. It's talent to be

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nurtured and developed.

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Speaker 1: To get rid of those sound, those voices in your head,

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to get rid of that noise, to accept it, say yes,

385
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it's there, as opposed to fighting it.

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Speaker 3: Yes. I mean I don't know if anyone who ever

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got rid of it. I mean I imagine that to

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take anyone. I mean Martin Luther King when he was,

389
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you know, marching into to some over that bridge. He

390
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didn't say, oh boy, this is going to be fun.

391
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That's not what his voice said. Had a lot of

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things going on, but his commitment was bigger than that.

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And that's the same thing. It's like, my voice is

394
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pretty much the same thing. Since I'm a kid. It says,

395
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you know, don't don't look bad here, and and I'd

396
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like to be able to perform in front of people,

397
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et cetera. So it's not going to change its scenario.

398
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It's like the comedian with the same jokes, you know,

399
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year after year. What I've been able to do more

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of is to recognize, oh, it just said that, and

401
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then to have a commitment to me, which is bigger

402
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than that. People rise above something when they're committed to

403
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something that's created than just this internal chatter, and that's

404
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,920
something that also can be coached. I don't see how

405
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people play in tournaments very well without that, or even

406
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with your friends.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, right, it could be even worse sometimes. Yes,

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I need to break for a moment here for our sponsor,

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but I think that it's going to lead in beautifully

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to what we're talking about.

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Speaker 3: Fred I liked it if I could talk a little

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time about my passion. And that's how do people change

413
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their actions. I've been looking at it now for about

414
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forty years, and you know, I have you ever tried

415
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to change people?

416
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Speaker 1: Well other than my children know, but I know how

417
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much luck I had with that.

418
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Speaker 3: Yes, so it's pretty clear that people don't change because

419
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you tell them to give them an instruction. Put the

420
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club here, do that, you know, just get out of

421
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your head, et cetera. They don't change because we give

422
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them a doing instruction. So I did that for probably

423
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a decade and people got a little better worse than

424
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the game really didn't have that much more enjoyment, So

425
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that was kind of like not a total flop, but

426
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reasonably floppy. Then I had a chance to take a

427
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look at and type of instruction called an awareness instruction.

428
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This fellow Tim Galway was a great pioneer in this,

429
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and he said, speak pay attention while you're doing this,

430
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can you can you be pressed to what you're doing,

431
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which was great, made a lot of difference, huge differences,

432
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but in terms of actually transforming a person's relationship in

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the game and really making it such that they were

434
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almost like a new person coming out that didn't happen there.

435
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So I like to take a look and a very

436
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I'm going to do this quickly. Why do people change?

437
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What really is the source of it? How do actions change?

438
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So I'll give you the tentative look at this. At

439
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this point, people's actions are always related to how the

440
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world occurs for them. It's like this. If if you

441
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were coming to a parking lot and there was one

442
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space left and a kid with a red Camaro cut

443
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you off, how would you how would he occur for you?

444
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Speaker 1: How would he occur?

445
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Speaker 3: Yeah? He cut you off and took your parking place.

446
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Speaker 1: So not my reaction, I'm not I'm not sure. I

447
00:24:17,559 --> 00:24:19,640
mean understand what you mean by how would he occur?

448
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Speaker 3: Well, how how would this situation occur? And how would

449
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this person seem to you who has just taking your

450
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parking place.

451
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Speaker 1: That they were being overly aggressive and unkind.

452
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Speaker 3: Yes, so you would probably act to that related to

453
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that with them, mer I would read it. That would

454
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be a little standard stand office. Yes, but now I've

455
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told you this person is bringing insulin to his mother

456
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who's in the kitchen working there, and she's having a

457
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diabetic time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

459
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Speaker 3: So so there is ways of seeing the world that

460
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empower us in ways that don't, and it's completely malleable.

461
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In a golf school, you send a person out for

462
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an exercise and they say they hit ten balls, and

463
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they come back to see how was that? And I goes,

464
00:24:59,559 --> 00:25:02,400
you know, they couldn't hit them, So I said, okay,

465
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can I be you for a second. He goes sure,

466
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He goes, Okay, my name is I'm Jim, and I

467
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had ten balls and I made up a decision that

468
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I sucked. I lost energy and went into resignation. Is

469
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,079
that true? He goes, yeah, can I be you again?

470
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He goes, Okay, Hi, I'm Jim. I had ten balls,

471
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and I could see this is the very thing I

472
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came for. I feel if I could get through this,

473
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,759
I could really make a jump in my golf game.

474
00:25:25,799 --> 00:25:30,839
And I find this incredibly challenging but worthwhile. Same ten shots,

475
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different con.

476
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Speaker 1: And different approach.

477
00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:38,599
Speaker 4: Absolutely so I think one of the ways see what

478
00:25:38,759 --> 00:25:41,680
I see people who really develop in this game, they

479
00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:46,000
begin to use a way of speaking internal language, external language,

480
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,599
body language, written language, imageries language in such a way

481
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,480
that their interpretation of the events that happened.

482
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,039
Speaker 3: Empower them in life and forward the action and those

483
00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:04,640
often interpretations. Unless you get this, beings will take the

484
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,400
most disempowering and call it reality like I suck, not

485
00:26:08,519 --> 00:26:12,640
like I did the best I could. So I guess

486
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,400
one way if we're going to pay time today, is

487
00:26:16,519 --> 00:26:20,119
I've got really a sense and an amazing power of

488
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,240
language in the language that human beings have, both internal

489
00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:28,799
and externally, and how it shapes and creates the world. Literally,

490
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,279
speaking differently alters the chemistry and bio body and neuroscience

491
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,720
is proving this to be exactly true. Right now and

492
00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:39,880
when a person can realize that the interpretation of the

493
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,000
world is not the only interpretation of the world, and

494
00:26:43,039 --> 00:26:45,160
the certainty you have about the way the world is

495
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,319
may be the person that actually holds you to have

496
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,200
that kind of blind certainty. And there are different ways

497
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,839
of seeing things and different ways of looking at things,

498
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,440
and there are ways that you can choose to make

499
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,440
your life work. And that, to me was pretty much

500
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,880
a forty year process to realize that the greatest instruction

501
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,920
of all is to begin to examine the person ends

502
00:27:08,039 --> 00:27:11,519
up with them, how the worlds them and how they

503
00:27:11,559 --> 00:27:17,200
curfect find all the other come from golf awareness, solid content,

504
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,480
all that other stuff becomes a lot easier when the

505
00:27:20,519 --> 00:27:22,599
person sees way.

506
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was part of my joy of watching

507
00:27:28,519 --> 00:27:30,839
the DVD. And I just want to apologize the audience.

508
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,960
I know that the Skype connection here is a little

509
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,799
bit rough, but we are getting the essence of what

510
00:27:35,839 --> 00:27:40,720
Fred's saying. But the thing that I was so excited

511
00:27:40,759 --> 00:27:45,319
about watching the DVD that that connected for me was

512
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,160
when you were working with Michael Tucker, who I thought

513
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:49,839
that was very fun to work with somebody who we

514
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,880
kind of recognize, but you can see he's like the

515
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:52,960
everyman golfer.

516
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, and he allowed.

517
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,079
Speaker 1: Himself to be I guess the word to be exposed

518
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,319
this way, that his ego was out of the way

519
00:28:02,319 --> 00:28:07,519
of This is the awareness part of when he became

520
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,440
aware where you know, we so often ourselves are seeing

521
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,559
somebody on the course who are trying to make corrections

522
00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:20,720
with their swing during a round, which is even worse.

523
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,559
But if you ask them what did they experience? You know,

524
00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:26,920
if they say, oh, well, I'm not coming through on

525
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,000
it all the way, it was like, well, what does

526
00:28:28,039 --> 00:28:30,599
that feel like? What is that experience? And they can't

527
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:31,319
explain it.

528
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 3: Well, they probably don't even experience it. They usually say

529
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,640
because the ball did something or their buddy told them right.

530
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,240
And when it was a real joy to watch Michael

531
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,640
actually experience what's going on and be able to be

532
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,920
more of his own coach than he ever was. That's

533
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,160
the high point of a coach. When somebody else can

534
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,559
be their own coach, that's the purpose of it.

535
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: And that's what I think was so valuable again for

536
00:28:53,599 --> 00:28:56,240
me on the DVD, and some day I would love

537
00:28:56,319 --> 00:29:00,240
to participate in the school. Is that other schools that

538
00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:03,440
I've seen, I've heard, I've participated, and you walk away

539
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,200
from the school and you want to fall. You want

540
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,359
to call them and follow up, how did wait a minute,

541
00:29:10,359 --> 00:29:13,559
what did I do this again? You know, why isn't

542
00:29:13,559 --> 00:29:17,000
this working anymore? But that's not the sense I get

543
00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:20,720
that you walk away from extraordinary golf from no.

544
00:29:20,799 --> 00:29:23,319
Speaker 3: The capacity to coach yourself is what most people ask

545
00:29:23,359 --> 00:29:25,880
for because you're with yourself. You know, we're with you

546
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,240
all most of the time. And if you could be

547
00:29:28,279 --> 00:29:30,920
a person when you miss hit a shot to actually

548
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,279
experience how you do it, it's far less, you know,

549
00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:36,440
upsetting then if you miss it a shot and you

550
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,839
have no idea what goes on, but you make up

551
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,839
cats phrases like I was too quick, and I came up,

552
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:43,079
came over the top.

553
00:29:43,039 --> 00:29:45,599
Speaker 1: Lifted my head always, that's my favorite.

554
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 3: It covers all sins, yeah right, without a clue what's

555
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:53,279
going on exactly. And most often, but the lifting the

556
00:29:53,359 --> 00:29:55,799
head is a brilliant solution, so the person doesn't bury

557
00:29:55,799 --> 00:29:58,480
the club four inches in the ground. So most often,

558
00:29:58,759 --> 00:30:02,000
even the things that we some times feel our solutions,

559
00:30:02,039 --> 00:30:04,720
the problems that come earlier and we have to bring

560
00:30:04,759 --> 00:30:07,000
our attention to earlier and earlier in the swing to

561
00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:08,400
find out what's actually going on.

562
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,279
Speaker 1: And not to get into the mechanics because that's not

563
00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:15,799
what it's about. But visually getting the opportunity to see

564
00:30:16,279 --> 00:30:19,359
you know, the and you and hear your explanation of

565
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,519
about the base of the swing. You know that it's

566
00:30:22,519 --> 00:30:24,880
a circle and the bottom point of the circle, where

567
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,640
does that land? That was an that.

568
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,319
Speaker 3: Was yeah, yes, is to change mechanics by awareness, right,

569
00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:36,200
So if someone said it your mechanical school, absolutely, but

570
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,039
we don't go about the mechanics by trying to you know,

571
00:30:39,119 --> 00:30:42,559
get this whole conceptual informational thing. But by experience. You

572
00:30:42,559 --> 00:30:46,119
you mechanically have a good walk. You mechanically can drive

573
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,400
a car well, but you didn't learn it that way.

574
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,720
You learned it by trusting the experience and falling sometimes.

575
00:30:53,640 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, reading the book, watching the video, talking to you.

576
00:30:59,359 --> 00:31:02,920
It is so exciting for me because of the kind

577
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,240
of approach that I love about golf is that I'm

578
00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:11,480
walking away with it, not with the terms you know,

579
00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:16,519
loosen the grip, relax the shoulders, follow through, make sure

580
00:31:16,559 --> 00:31:18,200
that I get a full I'm not walking away with

581
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:25,640
those terms. I'm walking away with perspective, awareness, presence, experience.

582
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 3: Yea golf after a golf lesson golf should be simpler

583
00:31:31,559 --> 00:31:37,359
and less in your head than before, or lesson you're here?

584
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,000
Are you?

585
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: Are? You? Did the golf industry hate you? And because

586
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,559
because I just can imagine all these teachers want to

587
00:31:44,559 --> 00:31:46,880
teach these things that you're not teaching, and then you're

588
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,759
kind of making them obsolete if people follow and understand

589
00:31:50,759 --> 00:31:51,440
this concept.

590
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 3: No, I think everybody's doing the best they can, every teacher.

591
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: And every parent.

592
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 3: And what happens. People have certain experiences in life that

593
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:03,079
shape them and change them. And you know, when you've

594
00:32:03,079 --> 00:32:05,400
seen be on the billboard at the edge of town,

595
00:32:05,599 --> 00:32:09,200
you can't go back again. I really got that. Really,

596
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,519
this isn't conceptual but awareness. It's what really makes a

597
00:32:12,519 --> 00:32:15,880
difference with people. And my job is not to put

598
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,559
a person in their head through golf lessons, but to

599
00:32:18,599 --> 00:32:20,880
have them have a greater range of experiences than they've

600
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,119
ever had before, direct experiences in the moment they're happening.

601
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,880
And when that happens, of course people learn. How could

602
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,319
you not Well, you're very good at your job, Fred,

603
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,440
Well we'll see no.

604
00:32:34,279 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: No, come on, how many how many people did you

605
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,119
say you've given lessons to lot. Yeah, tens of thousands,

606
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,839
forty three thousands, amazing and the fact that you keep

607
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,599
track of that, how do you? Well, this is episode

608
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,960
number four hundred two, so who am I to speak?

609
00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:54,440
Well again, I will give all the details about the

610
00:32:54,519 --> 00:32:57,440
DVD because we have the DVD available here at golf

611
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,680
smarter dot com. We also have the books available, and

612
00:33:01,599 --> 00:33:04,640
I'll give more details later. But again, congratulations on a

613
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,279
phenomenal production, and thank you again for sharing your time

614
00:33:09,559 --> 00:33:12,880
with us. I always greatly greatly appreciate it.

615
00:33:13,279 --> 00:33:16,759
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for your openness to the conversation. You know,

616
00:33:17,119 --> 00:33:19,200
I really appreciate the way you let it go anywhere,

617
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,119
and I just really liked that sort of thing. Well, thanks,

618
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,240
very