Speaker 1: Oh better there.
Speaker 2: Mm hm.
Speaker 3: Trigger warn This podcast may include explicit content that will
Speaker 3: take you out of your comfort zone and make you
Speaker 3: question reality.
Speaker 4: Listener's discretion is advised.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Occult Rejects. This episode we got a
Speaker 2: very very special guest and I guess a special show
Speaker 2: on topic for you. But before we get to the guests,
Speaker 2: I do want to introduce you the other rejects that
Speaker 2: are joining us tonight. Tonight, I'm going to start with
Speaker 2: Heidi to the left of me. Heidi, let everybody know
Speaker 2: what your deal is and what's up and where they
Speaker 2: can find all your amazing work.
Speaker 5: Please awesome.
Speaker 1: I am Heidi, love of the Unfiltered Rise. I'm everywhere
Speaker 1: podcasts are served. My little forte is Mormons because I
Speaker 1: used to be one, and also JFK because I'm a weirdo.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Anything that has to do with that, right, and so
Speaker 1: find me there and at Unfilteredrise podcast dot com. Thank
Speaker 1: you for having me, happy to be here.
Speaker 2: Listen, no, thank you, thank you, and maybe new listeners
Speaker 2: that might be coming across the show for the first time.
Speaker 2: Definitely go check out her Mormon Mafia series on here.
Speaker 2: That is That is on Fire. Great work, especially JJ.
Speaker 2: You know he's involved in it too, some great stuff.
Speaker 2: Definitely check it out and JJ, you're next. What's up, sir?
Speaker 2: Let everybody know what your deal is.
Speaker 6: Nick Creating, Sir. Appreciate the invite.
Speaker 3: As always, I enjoyed the occult Rejects roundtable discussions we
Speaker 3: have here, but tonight, you know specifically because I ever
Speaker 3: since I encountered a Kentucky vampire cult years ago that
Speaker 3: I've long been interested in these subjects.
Speaker 6: So JJ vance not.
Speaker 3: The vice president, it's the operation GCD. Definitely looking forward
Speaker 3: to the conversation. Julia and Heidi is always great to
Speaker 3: join you. It's that's great to meet you.
Speaker 2: Awesome, thank you very much. Yeah, And when I had
Speaker 2: asked her to come on, I was like, I have
Speaker 2: to ask him to come on because I'm gonna be honest.
Speaker 2: I really didn't entertain vampire cults too much until you
Speaker 2: had me on and we talked about it. I was like, yoh,
Speaker 2: this is really interesting. So I got to get my
Speaker 2: man off for this. So thank you. Like I had
Speaker 2: told you, I think I said, you probably inspired this somehow,
Speaker 2: so I appreciate it. And next, lest but not least,
Speaker 2: Cosmic Peach Julia, what up? What's going on?
Speaker 4: What's up?
Speaker 7: Nick? I'm excited to be here. This is gonna be
Speaker 7: a good one. I can already tell by the guest Bangs,
Speaker 7: I was just commenting on before we got started. She's fabulous.
Speaker 7: But yeah, no, I have Cosmic Peach podcast. If you
Speaker 7: haven't found me already, you never will. Honorary occult reject
Speaker 7: for the night though, excited to be here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you very much. Always a pleasure to have you.
Speaker 2: And finally to the guest, Celeste Moott, writer wickan witch rat, Mom,
Speaker 2: all sorts of things. Please let everybody know. I guess
Speaker 2: what your deal is? Where if because I do know
Speaker 2: you have social media, which I did include that in
Speaker 2: the mottom for people, but if you want to let
Speaker 2: people know, so I guess maybe what your deal is
Speaker 2: and where they can find your stuff, and I guess
Speaker 2: after that we'll get into how you got involved in
Speaker 2: the an Rise Vampire cle.
Speaker 8: Well what a story it is. Yeah. So my name
Speaker 8: is Celeste mott I'm been a full time professional which
Speaker 8: as my only source of income for about seven eight years,
Speaker 8: and been sort of doing a cult work for about
Speaker 8: twenty years. And yeah, also mother of rats. I have
Speaker 8: several rats that I caretake. And I'm a writer. I
Speaker 8: went to school for poetry and am currently working on
Speaker 8: a book about what I went viral for unexpectedly the
Speaker 8: last week. So I'm excited about all of that. You
Speaker 8: can find my spiritual work. And also, if you're listening
Speaker 8: to this and you haven't encountered my weird saga of vampires,
Speaker 8: I'm making videos about it on my Instagram and on
Speaker 8: my TikTok. So I'm Celeste Mott Motti over on Instagram,
Speaker 8: and I'm Celesto Moth like the flying thing over on TikTok.
Speaker 2: That is great. I'll have to edd you over on TikTok.
Speaker 2: I don't know you were over there.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 2: I guess, you know, I guess maybe if you can
Speaker 2: maybe even give us, like a I guess, an idea
Speaker 2: like where you were in your life when this evens,
Speaker 2: Like how did you even come about to get get
Speaker 2: into it? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 8: Yeah, for sure. So I joined this on it was
Speaker 8: the whole thing started online and those of you who's
Speaker 8: seen the videos will kind of know the genesis of
Speaker 8: the story and the Internet of two thousand and three
Speaker 8: was not the Internet of twenty twenty five. It was
Speaker 8: different in many, many ways. So I was in high
Speaker 8: school at the time. I think I was fifteen. I
Speaker 8: might've been sixteen, just but I was a kid, you know,
Speaker 8: living with my mom in Australia, which is where I
Speaker 8: grew up, and you know, I just was not having
Speaker 8: a great time. I was a weird little kid in
Speaker 8: a very very boring, suburban beach front kind of existence.
Speaker 8: I was a little goth kid, you know, and into
Speaker 8: weird music and listen to a lot of like David
Speaker 8: Bowie and The Cure and yeah, you know, jam and
Speaker 8: reading a lot of and Rise, reading a lot of
Speaker 8: other horror novels, and very into the paranormal and the
Speaker 8: occult even then. I've been into that since I was
Speaker 8: a teeny tiny little kid reading books about witches and
Speaker 8: ghosts and stuff. And I just didn't really have a
Speaker 8: huge community around me of people in real life. I
Speaker 8: had friends, you know, like there are a couple of
Speaker 8: people in the TikTok comments who are like, did you
Speaker 8: ever think of making a friend? I was like, I
Speaker 8: had friends, Like, come on, now, I wasn't. I wasn't
Speaker 8: a complete loser. But you know, I didn't have a
Speaker 8: lot of people in real life that I was able
Speaker 8: to vibe with about these bigger things that I was into.
Speaker 8: And so, like a lot of people my age, even older,
Speaker 8: you know, in that time on the Internet, I went
Speaker 8: online and I looked for people who had similar interests.
Speaker 8: I was very motivated, even at a young age. You've
Speaker 8: been in my teens, you know, to find something more.
Speaker 8: I had a real sense that there was something that
Speaker 8: existed outside of just paying your bills and working a
Speaker 8: shitty job and you know, doing your algebra homework. I
Speaker 8: had had some supernatural and paranormal experiences and some spiritual experiences,
Speaker 8: and so I took to you know, ask Jeeves. I guess,
Speaker 8: just like free everybody using Google. So I asked Jeeves,
Speaker 8: you know, vampires, real vampires, real online like, show me
Speaker 8: what you got. And came across all sults of strange
Speaker 8: and wonderful websites that existed again back in the old
Speaker 8: days of the Internet. But one of the websites I
Speaker 8: came across was this internet forum that claimed to be
Speaker 8: run by Anne Rice's Vampires, which is ludicrous on first blush,
Speaker 8: but you know, the saga continues.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 7: So this is like a real cult that's still I
Speaker 7: mean they still have it's still operating, and that's.
Speaker 8: A great question. What I can say is this, the
Speaker 8: people who ran this group definitely do still have an
Speaker 8: online presence. And the presence that they have online now
Speaker 8: you know, you can it's a URL that anybody can
Speaker 8: type in, and anyone can go to this little back
Speaker 8: end site, but you can't see anything. They have a
Speaker 8: form that you can fill out and you can say,
Speaker 8: you know, were you a current are you a current member?
Speaker 8: Where you a former member? Are you a total new
Speaker 8: person to this whole thing? And you can request to
Speaker 8: join and then they will or will not give you
Speaker 8: the log in for the back end of their site.
Speaker 8: So it operates. I assume in some sense. I have
Speaker 8: not been part of it since I guess they kicked
Speaker 8: me out in twenty eleven. The last contact I had
Speaker 8: with any of these people was twenty fourteen and it
Speaker 8: did not go well. So I don't know how active
Speaker 8: it is behind the scenes, but yeah, it's still there.
Speaker 4: Did they give names like my name is this? My
Speaker 4: name is that?
Speaker 7: Like specific vampires from like the novens?
Speaker 8: Yeah, so the kind of the setup of the whole group,
Speaker 8: and this was part of what when I first found
Speaker 8: it made me think of like, oh, this is a
Speaker 8: bunch of bullshit, you know, like I don't know, I'm
Speaker 8: assuming we can swear on the occult rejects and I'm
Speaker 8: assumed cursing is signed. Sometimes like no, I'm like, I'm
Speaker 8: from Australia. There's nothing i can do about that. But yeah,
Speaker 8: so most internet forums fandom stuff, you know, and rise
Speaker 8: or whatever fandom that you were looking at that existed
Speaker 8: at the time. And still if you sign up, you're
Speaker 8: signing up either as yourself or you're signing up and saying, hey,
Speaker 8: you know, I would love to join your like fune
Speaker 8: little role playing game. I would like to play the
Speaker 8: role of Lastett. Here's my audition. And then everybody kind
Speaker 8: of knows, all right, we're all writing collaboratively. It's a
Speaker 8: role play. In real life, I'm celess, but I'm going
Speaker 8: to be like lestat. On the internet, this group was
Speaker 8: very different. You were not allowed to audition to play
Speaker 8: a role. You were not allowed to go on there
Speaker 8: and be like I am Nostratu and I'm here to
Speaker 8: drink a beer with Lissette in the bar, you had
Speaker 8: to just be you. But the moderators at the forum
Speaker 8: were the vampires that we had all step We had
Speaker 8: a you know, armand we had a Louis met a Marius.
Speaker 8: And those people never revealed their real names. They were
Speaker 8: in character all the time. And the part that really
Speaker 8: turned it into kind of a cult like environment. And
Speaker 8: this went on, you know, for me eleven years, I
Speaker 8: think I was involved. Other people were involved for much
Speaker 8: much longer, but the mosque never dropped at any point,
Speaker 8: and they really created this environment where they were insisting
Speaker 8: we are the immortal vampires, like in one way or another,
Speaker 8: we are who we claim to be, and if you
Speaker 8: don't believe it, you know, we're going to make your
Speaker 8: life very difficult. Like either we're either you're just going
Speaker 8: to get the boot and you're out of the club,
Speaker 8: or we're going to belittle you and bully you and
Speaker 8: harass you until you come to the party. And there
Speaker 8: was a lot of like manipulation that went into convincing
Speaker 8: us that this was the truth.
Speaker 1: Scientist, I don't know if you know, Oh, I was
Speaker 1: just going to say, I didn't know if you knew
Speaker 1: about some of the other ones. I actually interviewed an
Speaker 1: ex vampire already. He was from the nether really yeah,
Speaker 1: and he was in a guys one.
Speaker 5: It was this guy.
Speaker 1: He's a famous guy and they do like shows and
Speaker 1: you can go to the show and like they have
Speaker 1: like raves and stuff like that, and like back about
Speaker 1: the same timeframe.
Speaker 5: I can't remember the guy's name that he was a part.
Speaker 8: Of the same Is this the Sanguinarian group, It's not,
Speaker 8: it's not he has the best and is it?
Speaker 5: I think it might be Father's the best.
Speaker 8: Yeah, well I know, I know, I know those folks
Speaker 8: a little bit.
Speaker 5: Yeah. He sent me a whole bunch of literature. It
Speaker 5: was super interesting.
Speaker 1: He sent me like the Temple of the Vampire books
Speaker 1: and stuff, and I read a whole bunch of it before.
Speaker 1: So fascinating to hear too, Like he was explaining about
Speaker 1: like the mental vampiism versus.
Speaker 8: Yeah, energy stuff. And that's a funny thing about the
Speaker 8: group I was in, Like even though at first blush
Speaker 8: you look at it and you think, well, that's peyton
Speaker 8: ridiculous of course, Like this person on the internet forum
Speaker 8: is not a fictional vampire written by Anne Rice. God
Speaker 8: rest your soul, But there was a lot of intersection
Speaker 8: with the groups that you just mentioned, you know, like
Speaker 8: what they would call like the real vampire community, the
Speaker 8: sanguinarian community, the other kin community, like all of these
Speaker 8: things kind of coalescing in a oddly frightening way.
Speaker 6: Wow, it sounds like go ahead, I know you're done.
Speaker 6: How to go ahead?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, so, did you like get
Speaker 1: involved with the other ones? Do they all come together
Speaker 1: and like meet at certain times or.
Speaker 8: I mean not explicitly, I guess. I think like with
Speaker 8: any weird subculture, you know, in the same way as
Speaker 8: the goth subculture intersects with the vampire subculture oftentimes just
Speaker 8: because you got some shared interests. There were definitely individual
Speaker 8: members of the group I was in, and possibly also
Speaker 8: moderators that did intersect with the sanguinarian community. It's a
Speaker 8: little convoluted, but very very much. Toward the end of
Speaker 8: my involvement with the group, the people involved in running
Speaker 8: the group I was in actually founded a like vampire's
Speaker 8: only Facebook that they call get Fanged, and the whole
Speaker 8: get Fanged group was strictly for sanguinarians, so there was overlap,
Speaker 8: but to my I mean, I never met anybody that
Speaker 8: I know to be a moderator who was like at
Speaker 8: any of these events. I've gone to the events, though,
Speaker 8: like sometimes I'll go to an endless night ball in
Speaker 8: New Orleans. A lot I have my thoughts on a
Speaker 8: lot of those people, so I like to keep myself
Speaker 8: on the gently on the outside looking in. But yeah,
Speaker 8: there was definitely I think there was probably a lot
Speaker 8: more overlap than I even realize at this point.
Speaker 5: Wow, okay, awesome, thank you.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you welcome, so.
Speaker 3: Celesti, you were saying, well, now I have a new
Speaker 3: question also to add on there. I appreciate that what's
Speaker 3: the sanguinarian.
Speaker 6: What is this?
Speaker 8: So the sanguinarian community, And again, being not myself a
Speaker 8: part of that community, I can only speak as a
Speaker 8: kind of fringe outsider. So if I if anything up
Speaker 8: and somebody watches this, don't come from me, oh my gosh.
Speaker 8: But my understanding is that the sanguinarian community is a
Speaker 8: vampire based subculture where the participants do drink human blood.
Speaker 8: They believe in some sense that they are vampires or
Speaker 8: that they are and sometimes sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's
Speaker 8: like an it's an energy exchange, right, that's the purpose.
Speaker 8: So we're not talking like, you know, filling up an
Speaker 8: eight pint glass and down in it.
Speaker 4: But some of them will blood eggs.
Speaker 8: Yeah, or you know, you'll have a donor and someone
Speaker 8: you know, you'll have your your donor who shut up.
Speaker 1: Yeah he said, it's all like they he was each other. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it has to be like all checked out and
Speaker 1: like yeah, contracts.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 8: It's because in a way it kind of overlaps again,
Speaker 8: it's it is not necessarily the kink scene, but it
Speaker 8: intersects with the kink scene, so you.
Speaker 2: Have a way of Yeah, I can easily, I can
Speaker 2: even say that's like you'll sometimes wonder if that's why
Speaker 2: you get that kind of even within like I saw
Speaker 2: that with the oto, how I could see how it
Speaker 2: does kind of connect to the kink scene in a way,
Speaker 2: and I think that's how you get some of the
Speaker 2: more weirder ones showing up.
Speaker 7: Yeah I'm not I'm not into Yeah, I'm not into
Speaker 7: kink shaming or anything like that, but I mean, I
Speaker 7: just it's the thought of it to me is just
Speaker 7: like you have to wonder if there's not a bit
Speaker 7: of like mental illness involved.
Speaker 4: When you take it to that point, I.
Speaker 8: Think the body people there is I mean, when you
Speaker 8: think about just the prevalence of mental illness generally, I mean,
Speaker 8: so many of us are not necessarily entirely well for
Speaker 8: various reasons, and there's a lot of trauma that brings
Speaker 8: people into communities like that. I mean, even in the
Speaker 8: goth community, there's a lot of trauma at play because
Speaker 8: you're an outsider, you've been an outside of your whole life.
Speaker 8: You're not fitting into the mainstream. I think the same
Speaker 8: is true of the wider occult community. And very sadly, you know,
Speaker 8: sometimes it's mild mental illness where you just have not
Speaker 8: a great childhood and maybe you struggle with some stuff.
Speaker 8: And other times it's very severely unchecked mental illness and
Speaker 8: that is its own problem.
Speaker 7: But yeah, you're right, you know, yeah, like drinking blood
Speaker 7: and starting a cult. Hey, I wouldn't mind starting a
Speaker 7: cult if it was like like fake vampirism.
Speaker 4: I'm down with that. Like I could.
Speaker 7: I'd almost see myself getting involved with fake vamporism cults
Speaker 7: because I grew up in the generation where it was
Speaker 7: like Twilight, and you know, it was very much kind
Speaker 7: of sensationalized, and I would have found myself like wanting
Speaker 7: to be a part of that stuff.
Speaker 4: Sure, But I was going to ask, oh, yeah, you
Speaker 4: go ahead, JJ.
Speaker 3: Well, no, that's a great point. That's well, that's that's
Speaker 3: exactly I was going to ask. Less, was the impact
Speaker 3: of these these errors of film and whatnot. It sounds
Speaker 3: like you joined this form around the time of the
Speaker 3: turn of the millennium.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think I probably signed up around two thousand
Speaker 8: and three, so right about then.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so you saw the full scope of some
Speaker 3: of these films, Like Juliet just pointed out, like, did
Speaker 3: that impact this community at all?
Speaker 6: All these films?
Speaker 8: I mean, I think like the vampire boom that happened
Speaker 8: in the early two thousands, Like, that's what it felt
Speaker 8: like to me, much like we kind of had witchcraft
Speaker 8: boom a little bit in like twenty twenty because everybody
Speaker 8: was stuck in their houses and so witch talk became huge,
Speaker 8: you know, on TikTok. I think the early two thousands
Speaker 8: had a little vampire boom for whatever reason. I think
Speaker 8: Twilight was a big part of that. For sure.
Speaker 6: Julian was enjoying that.
Speaker 7: Huh, dude, I would have joined it in a second
Speaker 7: back in seventh grade.
Speaker 8: Yeah, because it's appealing, Like there's something very airy, universally
Speaker 8: appealing about the vampire as an archetype like it. You know,
Speaker 8: vampires if we don't count like Nosfaratu, which is a
Speaker 8: whole mother matter. But you know, they're they're sexy, and
Speaker 8: they're eternally young, and they're powerful, and you know if
Speaker 8: you're especially in the world of Anne Rice and Twilight honestly,
Speaker 8: but you know, if you're a vampire, you don't never
Speaker 8: see like a poor, homeless vampire. You don't never see
Speaker 8: like a vampire that's like old and decrepit. In this
Speaker 8: in this new media incarnation, what you see is like
Speaker 8: young and beautiful and intelligent and educated and philosophical and rich. Yeah,
Speaker 8: and who doesn't if you're a sad little goth kid
Speaker 8: with their friends, who doesn't sit in your bedroom thinking
Speaker 8: like damn, my life kind of sucks, be really cool
Speaker 8: if a.
Speaker 7: Vampire, Yeah, grand Pitt literally interview.
Speaker 3: There was some big cultural films, cultural impact films.
Speaker 6: Right, what was the Vampire?
Speaker 8: Yeah, they were Empire film Blade also.
Speaker 2: Like the Amazing Yeah, they.
Speaker 8: Were, Yeah, the first one. I liked second one. Was
Speaker 8: all right after that, let's not talk about it.
Speaker 7: I mean, going all the way back to the beginning
Speaker 7: of time, they are mentioned of vampires. I actually just
Speaker 7: covered this in a separate episode on another show. And
Speaker 7: uh they even say like the very first wife of Adam,
Speaker 7: her name was Lilith, that she she was even vampiic,
Speaker 7: kind of like an immortal be being who sustained off
Speaker 7: of the life of other people or something like that.
Speaker 7: And I mean it goes all the way back to
Speaker 7: literally the beginning of time, So there is an obsession
Speaker 7: with it. But I also think that the obsession comes
Speaker 7: from there's a little bit of truth in it, that
Speaker 7: there are beings out there. They were worshiped in the
Speaker 7: old days as like these gods of old and hey,
Speaker 7: somebody said you and me black nightclub vampire cole, I'm down.
Speaker 2: I would do it.
Speaker 7: Yeah, but see I would be a ginger goth in there, exiled,
Speaker 7: so nobody wants me at the party otimate.
Speaker 5: Everybody loves gingers. I don't know.
Speaker 7: Yeah, but yeah, there's like a sexiness to the vampire thing.
Speaker 7: You never see like a crackheaded, you know, vampire that's
Speaker 7: like not very resourceful. It's all watched a show when
Speaker 7: I was growing up. It was called Dark Shadows. Yeah,
Speaker 7: I don't know if you're familiar with that. I was
Speaker 7: obsessed with it. And then Tim Burton did that with
Speaker 7: Johnny Depp. He made Johnny Depp barnabas Collins, and I
Speaker 7: think that movie is incredible.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 7: But even that show in itself, I would have joined
Speaker 7: a Dark Shadows cult. I definitely would have. I loved it,
Speaker 7: loved it.
Speaker 5: So did they have the literature for you?
Speaker 1: They're just like I was explaining, like he had books
Speaker 1: on books on books, like there was so many books.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, with that empire and stuff.
Speaker 8: Yeah. And I think it's because like if if the
Speaker 8: and I got to go back now and watch the episode,
Speaker 8: because that's how I'm like listened to the epith. That
Speaker 8: sounds fascinating. But if it's the same group that I'm
Speaker 8: thinking of, parts of that sanguinaryan community and like the
Speaker 8: real vampire community, it does kind of cross into almost
Speaker 8: being a religion or like a you know, I'm not
Speaker 8: like a formal religion, but they have just like Felamides,
Speaker 8: they have holy books, they have like tenets, right, they
Speaker 8: have rituals our group was not so much like that.
Speaker 8: It was a lot more chaotic in free form. I mean,
Speaker 8: if we had like a holy book, you know, it
Speaker 8: was Anne Rice's books and one thing that did, one
Speaker 8: thing that did happen, which was a little weird. And
Speaker 8: you know, with time and age and maturity, I realized
Speaker 8: that it's not as like spooky and inexplicable as I
Speaker 8: thought it was when I was sixteen. But they were
Speaker 8: able to get a bunch of us advanced reader copies
Speaker 8: some of Ann's books before they were released, which at
Speaker 8: the time, you know, in the early two thousands seemed
Speaker 8: really weird. We were like, wow, how did this happen?
Speaker 8: And there was this whole kind of magical element to
Speaker 8: it where Lestat on the Forum had said, you know,
Speaker 8: I'm going to get you guys, some of you guys
Speaker 8: advanced copies of the book before it's been published, and
Speaker 8: there's going to be little clues and synchronicities and secrets
Speaker 8: hidden in there to do with the forum and to
Speaker 8: do with you guys, and some of you are going
Speaker 8: to be in the book, it like under different names,
Speaker 8: and so we were all kind of going through the
Speaker 8: book trying to figure it out. So yeah, No, no
Speaker 8: structured tenets, you know, or laws aside from I guess
Speaker 8: the great law, which was you have to believe and
Speaker 8: if you don't believe, you're going to be on the outs. Well.
Speaker 7: I know that vampire novels are very are kind of
Speaker 7: synonymous with like romance novels, but just kind of like
Speaker 7: that has like.
Speaker 4: The vampire element, kind of like Twilight.
Speaker 7: But I know several serial killers who were inspired by
Speaker 7: romance novels. I mean there is a serious obsession with it.
Speaker 7: Did they ever ask you, like extort you for money
Speaker 7: or anything like that, like you can get this copy
Speaker 7: if you pay X dollars or anything.
Speaker 8: Nothing super explicit. Somebody on TikTok asked me this as well.
Speaker 8: And I think it's because when you talk about when
Speaker 8: you talk about cults, oftentimes people are like, well, where's
Speaker 8: the financial incentive, because that is sort of typical as
Speaker 8: the cult leader makes a lot of money. You know,
Speaker 8: you look at Keith Nary from nexim or you look
Speaker 8: at like any of these assholes they wind up riches kings.
Speaker 8: There were attempts made to monetize the group I was
Speaker 8: in on and off, mostly through like subscriptions to special
Speaker 8: like forums or access to special archives. They had this whole,
Speaker 8: very strange period of time where they ran a kind
Speaker 8: of sister website that was supposed to be a paranormal
Speaker 8: investigation group called the Talamasca. That's a big thing in
Speaker 8: an RISI's books. And they were like, oh, you can
Speaker 8: join up and join the Talamasca and research the paranormal,
Speaker 8: but you're going to have to pay you know, nine
Speaker 8: a month or whatever it is. But none of that
Speaker 8: really took off. And I think a big part of
Speaker 8: the reason that it didn't is most of us on
Speaker 8: this site were young, like either actual minors like thirteen, fourteen, fifteen,
Speaker 8: or just in early college, still living with our parents.
Speaker 8: Like no one had very deep pockets. So the monetization
Speaker 8: didn't go anywhere for them. But I think for them
Speaker 8: it was all about the attention and the power and
Speaker 8: the control.
Speaker 4: Did they ever show their faces.
Speaker 8: Nope, never, not to my knowledge. I mean. And this
Speaker 8: is the other weird thing though, And I've been down
Speaker 8: the rabbit hole for the past week since you know,
Speaker 8: I didn't intend to start telling this story on TikTok.
Speaker 8: I was recovering from a sinus infection and I was
Speaker 8: looking at my TikTok account. No, man, I had a
Speaker 8: lot of engagement recently, like just yapping on the internet.
Speaker 8: What if I just like, what if I just tell
Speaker 8: this cult story and see what happens? And then you know,
Speaker 8: I'm at collectively almost two million views of all the
Speaker 8: videos since them, which is it? Kind of it kind
Speaker 8: of slowed down on TikTok, but then on Instagram reels
Speaker 8: it went bananas. But yeah, like this idea of like
Speaker 8: did they or did they not show their faces? I've
Speaker 8: been back in my archives, like archived a lot of
Speaker 8: material back in the day while I was part of
Speaker 8: this group. I saved chat logs, I saved ale instant
Speaker 8: messenger logs.
Speaker 2: I have like oh yeah, you can see like on
Speaker 2: your on your Instagram, you even.
Speaker 8: The web share Yeah, screenshots of like what the website
Speaker 8: used to look like and everything. So I was ruthless.
Speaker 8: I was known for it at the time, and it
Speaker 8: made them very uncomfortable and probably continues to make them
Speaker 8: very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: But I you know what you could probably do now
Speaker 2: that I'm just saying, if you ever wanted to, like,
Speaker 2: oh I wish I could go back, you could probably
Speaker 2: use the wayback machine and possibly find some of them.
Speaker 10: There's some stuff there, I looked, Yeah, yeah, Because the
Speaker 10: forum was password protected and you had to have an
Speaker 10: account to really see anything, you can't find anything much
Speaker 10: like with.
Speaker 8: Regard to that, but you know, you can see their
Speaker 8: old websites and stuff it's Banana's. But regarding their faces,
Speaker 8: there was so many layers of like bullshit and subterfuge
Speaker 8: and obfuscation, and so there was never a moment when
Speaker 8: like the person playing with STAT who you know, who
Speaker 8: we thought was the stat There was never a moment
Speaker 8: will with STAT like turned the webcam on and was like, hey, MTV,
Speaker 8: welcome to my crib. But there were members like regular
Speaker 8: people like me right who I became friends with over
Speaker 8: the years, very close, stayed in these people's houses, you know,
Speaker 8: traveled with them, who in retrospect very likely were involved
Speaker 8: in some way. And over the past week I've been
Speaker 8: talking to a lot of other members from the time,
Speaker 8: and we've been exchanging notes and putting the puzzle pieces
Speaker 8: together and something else shows just this is an exclusive
Speaker 8: scoop for the the Occult Rejects because I wasn't sure
Speaker 8: if I was going to talk about this publicly and
Speaker 8: I'm not on TikTok, but one of the ladies who
Speaker 8: probably started the whole cult. That's the working theory. She
Speaker 8: was an older woman. She almost certainly founded the whole thing.
Speaker 8: She never admitted to it, but we've all been able to,
Speaker 8: you know, connect the dots. She actually died like seven
Speaker 8: days before I started making my videos, and I found
Speaker 8: that out yesterday. I found her obituary and I was like.
Speaker 4: Oh, dang, so she never saw your stuff?
Speaker 5: No, maybe not. Let you be free to do it,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean?
Speaker 8: Did you feel like kind of a spiritual strange little
Speaker 8: like crossing over, you know something, This lady left this
Speaker 8: modal coil and somehow the truth was set free. But
Speaker 8: that was weird. So I guess in theory, I have
Speaker 8: seen one of their faces just in a twenty minute
Speaker 8: long memorial video, which was very surreal.
Speaker 4: Did she look notable.
Speaker 8: Or just like a little old lady? She really seventy
Speaker 8: five year old woman.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I was gonna say, did she look like she
Speaker 7: was eternally sixteen or anything?
Speaker 8: Very Unfortunately we're all concerned to know she did not.
Speaker 11: Yeah, sorry, Celeste, I'm going to jump in really quick.
Speaker 11: I called as I was a little bit late. I
Speaker 11: apologize to everybody, and thank you Nick obviously for hosting me.
Speaker 11: But so this is very interesting to me. You're saying,
Speaker 11: like a woman, uh, sort of founded the cult.
Speaker 12: And I know that.
Speaker 11: I've discussed this with Heidi, I've discussed this with JJ
Speaker 11: and I'm sure Julia is familiar with it. But the
Speaker 11: idea in process obviously Marianne Grimston and like this kind
Speaker 11: of like Mother Prophet Seer Love later. And my friend
Speaker 11: Ashley who's in the chat right now, she is studying
Speaker 11: another called out of North Carolina called the Word of Faith,
Speaker 11: and they are called is also run by a woman,
Speaker 11: an older woman, and they call her the Mother Prophet.
Speaker 11: So I was just wondering if you called her any
Speaker 11: kind of particular titles other than her character.
Speaker 8: We never knew her identity for sure. Like, the only
Speaker 8: way I know that this woman almost certainly did found
Speaker 8: the whole thing is through like you know, almost twenty
Speaker 8: years of various different people sleuthing and putting the pieces
Speaker 8: together and you know, adding it all up over the years.
Speaker 8: So this woman never came clean as herself and said
Speaker 8: yeah it's me, I'm behind it. She never stepped you know,
Speaker 8: out onto the stage and took any kind of responsibility
Speaker 8: that we would have given her a special name. She
Speaker 8: was just always behind that smokes her. And she played Louis,
Speaker 8: who's like the sad boy. And Rice's character Brad Pitt. Yeah,
Speaker 8: brad Pitt. She played Brad Pitt. But yeah nos so
Speaker 8: in her case. No. But I will say that even
Speaker 8: she did exist on the forum in this group as herself.
Speaker 8: She did have a username and logged on and would
Speaker 8: tell people about, you know, her gardening and her grandkids
Speaker 8: and her piano playing and stuff like that. She met
Speaker 8: some people in real life. I was not one of them,
Speaker 8: but she did go to meetups and so on. But
Speaker 8: Onie ever as herself. And the only way that she
Speaker 8: was special as herself was that she claimed that she
Speaker 8: had met the vampires in real life and that she
Speaker 8: was a big part of why so many people came
Speaker 8: to believe because she was like, look, I'm at the time,
Speaker 8: you know, a sixty year old grandma. Why would I
Speaker 8: ally to you guys about any of this, Like, I'm
Speaker 8: an upstanding member of the community. I've worked the same
Speaker 8: university job for forty years. I used to be an
Speaker 8: opera singer. I'm a very normal person, but I'm telling
Speaker 8: you that vampire is real because I've met one. And
Speaker 8: that was the only way that she was special. So
Speaker 8: she didn't get like a special title. No one gave
Speaker 8: her credit for running the soul operation. We really didn't
Speaker 8: find out until years later, but she did distinguish herself
Speaker 8: insofar as she was the special one who had actually
Speaker 8: had this face to face contact that all of us,
Speaker 8: you know, desperately wanted.
Speaker 7: Basically was it was like she's seen them, She's telling
Speaker 7: you they're real. But I mean, I'm just surprised that
Speaker 7: they didn't try to, like say, if you paid X
Speaker 7: number dollars, you could get to meet one of them
Speaker 7: or something, or like, I'm surprised they didn't. They didn't
Speaker 7: try to like monetize that in some way, like I mean.
Speaker 8: I need one go ahead.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, JJ No, that was That's a great point.
Speaker 3: I was thinking the same thing. What was their in game?
Speaker 3: But they're not trying to monetize it, Like, what is
Speaker 3: their in game?
Speaker 1: Well, they make a lot of money on these balls
Speaker 1: she's talking about. You have to dress a certain way,
Speaker 1: you have to have everything to the utmost like like
Speaker 1: a big deal.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and if they were in some way connected with that,
Speaker 8: which I don't know if they were or not. I mean,
Speaker 8: you know, gain before anyone's lawyers descend upon me. I'm
Speaker 8: definitely not saying that my group no, were officially a
Speaker 8: part of that, but there may have been other income streams.
Speaker 8: But I think also any attempts they made to monetize
Speaker 8: just didn't work. I mean, their last ditch effort to
Speaker 8: monetize was around about twenty ten and they started this
Speaker 8: like vampire Facebook thing. It was pretty well made site.
Speaker 8: I wish I had screenshots of that, but I don't.
Speaker 8: I mean, it worked very well. They clearly had hired
Speaker 8: a web designer who really knew what they were doing,
Speaker 8: and they had a whole thing set up, and they
Speaker 8: were trying to position that and launch it as you know,
Speaker 8: this is the alternative Vampire's only Facebook, and we're going
Speaker 8: to be rich off that, and I think it just
Speaker 8: didn't go anywhere. I don't know if that's because so
Speaker 8: many people in the community again just like didn't really
Speaker 8: have the money and weren't that interested. But yeah, they
Speaker 8: didn't monetize it. I think what they were in it for,
Speaker 8: I mean I have a couple of theories. Main theory
Speaker 8: is that these people were just not well, especially this
Speaker 8: like older lady you know, who passed away recently. Not
Speaker 8: to speak ill of the dead, but I just don't
Speaker 8: think that you could possibly be a well human being
Speaker 8: if you spend thirty plus years of your life as
Speaker 8: a fully grown adult with children and grandchildren and a
Speaker 8: job and a life lying to miners on the internet
Speaker 8: that you are a vampire or have met vampire something.
Speaker 8: It's not right in your head. You're not doing well. Yeah,
Speaker 8: so mental illness possibly, But I think it was attention.
Speaker 8: I think it was control. I think being able to
Speaker 8: convince a huge group of people to believe something bananas
Speaker 8: has a lot of appeal for a certain type of person,
Speaker 8: and so I think that was the payoff.
Speaker 7: Really, how many people do you, like roundabouts were involved
Speaker 7: in the group when you were When I was.
Speaker 8: A part of the group, there were about I want
Speaker 8: to say, three or four hundred people like registered as.
Speaker 4: That's pretty good, that's pretty good for Yeah, I mean
Speaker 4: not all of them are hustred or something.
Speaker 8: Yeah, not all of them were like regularly active. So
Speaker 8: we had definitely that many people who were there and
Speaker 8: observing or whatever. I would say in terms of like
Speaker 8: active participating members, probably close it about one hundred and
Speaker 8: fifty and then off that there was even smaller inner
Speaker 8: circle group of which I was unfortunately part, and that
Speaker 8: was maybe like thirty people thirty thirty five people who
Speaker 8: were you know, going and meeting each other offline and
Speaker 8: going to meet up events and extremely invested in like
Speaker 8: the narrative. But yeah, pretty big group comparatively.
Speaker 4: Did you just get rid of it with age or
Speaker 4: they you said they kicked you out or oh yeah.
Speaker 8: They kicked me out, which I would use to.
Speaker 7: Send me proof and they were like, you know what,
Speaker 7: You're out of the group pretty much.
Speaker 8: Honestly, yeah, I would love to say that I had
Speaker 8: just matured and become a more sensible person and walked away,
Speaker 8: but very sadly, no, they eroded my mental health over
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, other things were also eroding my
Speaker 8: mental health and fairness. They're not completely responsible, but I
Speaker 8: was not doing well in my early twenties and my
Speaker 8: late teens, and I think for me, you know, a
Speaker 8: lot of my peers who were in the same group
Speaker 8: were able to take things a little bit more lightly,
Speaker 8: and they were able to kind of participate. And yes,
Speaker 8: it was impacting them and changing the way they viewed
Speaker 8: the world, and they were invested, but they weren't quite
Speaker 8: as invested as I was. You know, I was all
Speaker 8: in to a damaging degree. But I also really really
Speaker 8: struggled to fully believe even though I was all in,
Speaker 8: even though I really wanted it to be true, I
Speaker 8: really struggled with just like being like, Okay, cool, yeah,
Speaker 8: this is all real. Let's move let's move on with
Speaker 8: with you know, whatever's going on. And so I think
Speaker 8: the doubt and the constantly looking for answers. You know,
Speaker 8: I was constantly I mean that's why I have files
Speaker 8: on my computer to this day with all the evidence.
Speaker 8: I was always talking to people, asking questions, trying to
Speaker 8: find out the truth. I would have conversations with the vampires,
Speaker 8: the moderators and say, look, there's been ten years. You
Speaker 8: guys can just tell me what's really going on, Like,
Speaker 8: we don't have to do we don't have to do
Speaker 8: all this. You know, if we're friends, we're friends, we've
Speaker 8: built a relationship over a decade, you'd just be real
Speaker 8: with me. And they wouldn't. And so then I took
Speaker 8: matters into my own hands to try and discover the
Speaker 8: truth whether they were going to tell me or not,
Speaker 8: which included tracking down IP addresses and talking to people
Speaker 8: that they didn't want me to talk to.
Speaker 4: I'll get you kicked out every time.
Speaker 8: Yes it will, Yes, it will. And so that's it,
Speaker 8: and that's why they booted me. Ultimately, was just having
Speaker 8: conversations with the wrong people, asking too many questions. And
Speaker 8: I think from their perspective, you know, not to not
Speaker 8: to be overly fair to a bunch of people who
Speaker 8: light and manipulated miners for years, But from their perspective,
Speaker 8: I think it was like this. You know, I was
Speaker 8: making trouble. I was not just swallowing what they had
Speaker 8: to tell me and sitting down quietly and dealing with it.
Speaker 8: And they didn't like that.
Speaker 4: So mm hmm, yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 5: Hey, JJ, that sounds like the Mormons.
Speaker 6: I was going to say the exact same thing.
Speaker 3: That sounds like the same damn experience serious former Mormons.
Speaker 6: I was thinking the same thing.
Speaker 9: Yeah, And I.
Speaker 8: Feel like it's common to a lot of those groups, right, Like,
Speaker 8: but my roommate actually is a former Mormon, so I've.
Speaker 7: I've heard Mormon and stuff.
Speaker 8: But also, you know scientology, you've got the same thing.
Speaker 8: If you're out, you're out. That's it. You're a non person,
Speaker 8: and they're going to tell us wise about you and
Speaker 8: turn other people against you. And this was much the same,
Speaker 8: just on a very smaller scale.
Speaker 3: Well the scientologists are hiding? What what are they hiding?
Speaker 8: I have series.
Speaker 7: I'd rather be a part of the vampire cult than
Speaker 7: the Mormons, just just saying they're waiting. I'd much rather
Speaker 7: be part of a vampire cult. But I did have
Speaker 7: a question for you. Have you ever watched the show
Speaker 7: or the movie called Catfish? Yeah, okay, so you know
Speaker 7: how like in the in the movie Catfish, like the
Speaker 7: original Catfish story, he shows up and it's that one
Speaker 7: lady and she's playing like many many roles. I mean,
Speaker 7: she's got like twenty Facebook accounts set up, she's got
Speaker 7: like cousins and brothers and like moms and all this stuff,
Speaker 7: and it's just one lady. And you know, she had
Speaker 7: convinced this guy had completely fallen in love with her,
Speaker 7: and you know, showed up and she even like brought
Speaker 7: him in her house and was still trying to keep.
Speaker 4: The ruse up.
Speaker 7: So I mean, the thing is, when you start digging
Speaker 7: in and you start trying to find answers because you
Speaker 7: feel like something's fishy, they will at all costs try
Speaker 7: to keep the fantasy alive. Oh yeah, so they they
Speaker 7: probably would have rather gotten rid of you than to
Speaker 7: just been like, hey, nobody's really a vampire here, we're busted.
Speaker 7: You know, They're gonna go down to the last moment
Speaker 7: getting people to think they're really vampires than to just
Speaker 7: be like busted, you know what I mean.
Speaker 8: I remember watching Catfish for the first time. I can't
Speaker 8: remember when that came out, but it's going to have
Speaker 8: been sometime in the early two thousands, I think, And
Speaker 8: I remember watching it at the time and being like,
Speaker 8: this is the same. Like I knew on some level,
Speaker 8: I was like, what I am involved in it is
Speaker 8: going to it is going to be this. And there
Speaker 8: was always sorry already so much, so much whispering behind
Speaker 8: the scenes between those of us who were participants of this, saying,
Speaker 8: you know, oh, do you think that so and so
Speaker 8: is real? Do you think that this person's really a plant?
Speaker 8: You know? Is this a fake profile? Is that a
Speaker 8: fake profile? Like we were highly suspicious the whole time.
Speaker 8: I found out years later, actually, like a couple of
Speaker 8: years ago, I reconnected with some people who were part
Speaker 8: of this group, and one of these women said to me,
Speaker 8: she was like, you know, you can tell me now,
Speaker 8: were you one of the vampires? I was like, bitch, no,
Speaker 8: my life had been so much easier if that had
Speaker 8: been the truth. You know, But that's the level of
Speaker 8: distrust and like weirdness that it created between all of
Speaker 8: those Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, for sure, what are your theories not not legally
Speaker 1: tendering any kind of uh aspect behind that?
Speaker 8: Yeah? Yeah, we got to cover cover our legal basis
Speaker 8: my theories. So, as I said, you know, yesterday was
Speaker 8: a weird day because I found this lady's obituary and
Speaker 8: by adding certain things, I mean there were pictures in
Speaker 8: this lady's like oh bit slide show that I remember
Speaker 8: being posted to the forum. So I was like, oh,
Speaker 8: this is her, And then I ran it by a
Speaker 8: friend of mine who actually met this woman in real life.
Speaker 8: I said, just to confirm, is this is this you know,
Speaker 8: I'm not going to say her name, but is this
Speaker 8: Bonnie fake name? Is this Bonnie from the forum who
Speaker 8: we all think probably played Louis and my friend was like, well,
Speaker 8: that's her. So I guess theory one is it really
Speaker 8: was just a bunch of and Rise supers who were
Speaker 8: also not well in some way or how to void
Speaker 8: that they needed to fill, and they were filling that
Speaker 8: by being highly manipulative and sketchy on the Internet. That's
Speaker 8: that's the first and probably most likely theory. But I
Speaker 8: do have a kind of secondary theory which dovetails into
Speaker 8: the occult a little bit. You know, I'm a witch
Speaker 8: full time now, that's what I do as a job,
Speaker 8: and in that line of work, I've seen a lot
Speaker 8: of shit and gotten down a lot of rabbit holes
Speaker 8: and and a lot of research and reading. And you know,
Speaker 8: the concept of the aggregor right where or like theater
Speaker 8: eggor tulpa thought form. It's got different names that people use,
Speaker 8: but the idea that like a concentrated amount of belief
Speaker 8: and focus and sometimes meditation or magical practice can create
Speaker 8: a being or a manifestation or like a thing that
Speaker 8: exists independently from the people who are putting that energy
Speaker 8: into it. There is a part of me that thinks
Speaker 8: that something like that was going on in this group,
Speaker 8: not by accident but purposefully And I say that because
Speaker 8: a lot of the people who were running this forum,
Speaker 8: I mean Lastat especially, but some of the other moderators too,
Speaker 8: knew a lot about the occult. They were posting about Felima,
Speaker 8: they were posting about Ederer Rosen Tulpa's Tibetan Buddhism, and
Speaker 8: so that calls into question, like was there some other
Speaker 8: purpose for all this beyond just like trala la la
Speaker 8: la la to pretend to be vampires. You know.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask earlier because I was wondering,
Speaker 2: like sometimes just like even if people just being manipulated
Speaker 2: and used it might be an occultist this somewhere, And
Speaker 2: I was going to ask if they entertained the occult
Speaker 2: on this form. I just didn't get to asking it,
Speaker 2: So I guess I guess they didn't. They were open
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 8: Yeah, they were open about it. They were looking back,
Speaker 8: you know, I think teaching us in some ways. I
Speaker 8: mean a lot of us were kids. I was a kid,
Speaker 8: and I definitely learned about a lot of these occult
Speaker 8: topics and was sort of guided through how to do
Speaker 8: further research and learn more by these people. Dreams were
Speaker 8: a huge part of what they did like dreaming and
Speaker 8: dream work and lucid dreaming and dream walking each other
Speaker 8: and stuff like that. I first heard the term synchronicity
Speaker 8: on this forum and like read the works of Carl
Speaker 8: Jung because of the forum. So yeah, actually, because.
Speaker 6: Go ahead, Joy, who was.
Speaker 4: Saying, oh, I said they would like get in your dreams?
Speaker 4: Is that what that means?
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, that was a whole That was a whole
Speaker 8: other thing. And i mean, look, i am a full
Speaker 8: time professional witch and I've experienced some weird shit, but
Speaker 8: I'm also a skeptic. Like it's a weird line to draw,
Speaker 8: but I've kind of got Scully on one shoulder and
Speaker 8: Molder on the other, you know. But there were some
Speaker 8: things that I can't really explain. There was some dream experiences.
Speaker 8: I've always been a lucid dreamer. I've always been a
Speaker 8: very vivid dreamer since I was a tiny little kid.
Speaker 8: But there are some things that happened while I was
Speaker 8: a part of this forum that were extremely strange. Waking
Speaker 8: up Lake with my body covered in bruises in places
Speaker 8: wouldn't have made sense for me to be like knocking
Speaker 8: myself around, you know. Yeah, weird stuff.
Speaker 3: Wow, that sounds pretty wild. Yeah, I was piggyback on
Speaker 3: next tape. And I was curious too when you mentioned
Speaker 3: earlier Julia about the Lilith, the original vampire. So Michael
Speaker 3: Quina's wife, Lilith, when they first started the Temple of Set,
Speaker 3: she starts this thing called I'm not sure if you're
Speaker 3: familiar with this list the vampire order.
Speaker 6: Or the Order of the Vampire.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so there's some sort of.
Speaker 3: Mash mashed together of the Lima, like you were saying,
Speaker 3: and uh and some sort of vampire business.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, what And it's like you see that
Speaker 4: a lot.
Speaker 8: I think, pardon me, I'm getting slipking over this cold.
Speaker 8: You see that a lot. I think with for whatever reason,
Speaker 8: Thelema just seems to like slot very nicely into just
Speaker 8: like there are other belief systems and it kind of
Speaker 8: but you know, you've seen that with the Tiffony and Oto, right,
Speaker 8: like that's HP Lovecraft mythology, but it's blended with Thelema,
Speaker 8: and so yeah, I don't know whether there was something
Speaker 8: purposeful going on behind the scenes that was ramping up
Speaker 8: to become more organized or more like official in some way.
Speaker 8: Maybe it did, and I just don't.
Speaker 11: Know about it, you know, Well, I have a little
Speaker 11: thing to sort of piggyback off JJ is that there
Speaker 11: is I don't know if you're familiar with it, sluss,
Speaker 11: but there is an order.
Speaker 12: It's called vampire Buddhism for vampires.
Speaker 8: Excuse me, oh, I don't know.
Speaker 11: He So it's very larpye and like a lot of
Speaker 11: of the we'll say, very online Buddhists, especially on Twitter, we.
Speaker 12: All laugh at it.
Speaker 11: But there is something that you're you're right about, because
Speaker 11: we do talk a lot about like things like the
Speaker 11: Carnel Ground, and we have vampires and obviously like the
Speaker 11: kind of Babylon figure like the Dikinis, the Red Girls,
Speaker 11: a scarlet woman that's very prominent in Buddhism. So, and
Speaker 11: they are sometimes considered vampires. But it's a conceptual it's
Speaker 11: not literal. It's just it's a strictly conceptual. So I
Speaker 11: but I can understand if you were a more literalist person,
Speaker 11: like you're saying, like you were taking sort of these
Speaker 11: books that are fictional, but you're sort of taking them
Speaker 11: out of their context and making them like a liturgical
Speaker 11: or religious text.
Speaker 12: This is very interesting.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's and I think, you know, you
Speaker 8: bring up a really great point there too, because they're
Speaker 8: in the in the tradition of witchcraft that I now practice.
Speaker 8: Let's enter it from that angle. I practice like kind
Speaker 8: of hybrid tread craft, like traditional witchcraft blended with sort
Speaker 8: of folk Catholicism, that sort of where my practice pulls.
Speaker 8: But in traditional witchcraft and in folkloric witchcraft, I mean
Speaker 8: you're drawing on folk tales. You're drawing on groom wires
Speaker 8: written by people, you know, hundreds and hundreds of years ago,
Speaker 8: which are in turn drawing on folk tales to formulate
Speaker 8: this sort of spiritual system in this magical practice. And
Speaker 8: so I think that the line between stories and reality
Speaker 8: is not quite as like firmly delineated as sometimes we
Speaker 8: think it is, especially if you're a magical practitioner, if
Speaker 8: you're an occultist, like story and narrative are kind of
Speaker 8: the driving force of an occult worldview, whether or not
Speaker 8: your story is you know, Crowley's writings or HP Lovecraft
Speaker 8: writings through the lens of Crowley, you know, or fairy
Speaker 8: tales like there, it becomes the lens you are looking
Speaker 8: at the world through. And so I think, you know,
Speaker 8: in your case, you're talking about. The vampire is not,
Speaker 8: of course, a literal thing that's going to go come
Speaker 8: to your house and drink your blood in the middle
Speaker 8: of the night. It's a it's a sort of metaphorical
Speaker 8: or symbolic kind of role. But I think sometimes there's
Speaker 8: more overlap in those things than we realize, if that
Speaker 8: makes sense.
Speaker 11: Absolutely. I mean this is something that I Nick knows.
Speaker 11: I'm really fascinated by this idea of like parafiction and metafiction.
Speaker 11: Like looking at the exactly like what you said, like
Speaker 11: Crowley's writing, it'ssel full of fiction, but the people can't
Speaker 11: really distinguish it. So there's a point where it doesn't
Speaker 11: even matter because it is kind of real.
Speaker 12: It is real if you believe it.
Speaker 8: Mm hmmmmmm mm hm.
Speaker 2: So you did mention, Oh you said the lima was
Speaker 2: like definitely, was that like more of a bigger thing
Speaker 2: that really peaked me?
Speaker 8: Like on the forum, not explicitly, they were putting ideas
Speaker 8: out there that were, you know, Belama adjacent, I would say,
Speaker 8: but they were mishmashing a lot of different spiritual concepts.
Speaker 8: There was just a real there seemed to be for them,
Speaker 8: Like for these ban biomoderators a real fascination and definitely
Speaker 8: a level of knowledge about topics that definitely far exceeded
Speaker 8: what most of us are. What, like the average you
Speaker 8: on the street wouldn't know.
Speaker 2: Did you have any members on there that had like
Speaker 2: sigils that they've made of themselves, like as their logo
Speaker 2: and stuff like that.
Speaker 8: I can't remember that off the top of my head,
Speaker 8: but I'm sure we did. I mean, sigil magic. It
Speaker 8: did become yeah, it did become a yeah. And because
Speaker 8: I think I know where you're going with I think
Speaker 8: I know where you're going with that. Maybe I don't
Speaker 8: recall it, but it wouldn't surprise me. And I think
Speaker 8: the if I'm right about where you're going with that,
Speaker 8: I think the concept is the same. I mean, I
Speaker 8: think I've seen people in the chat saying, you know,
Speaker 8: energy vampires. I think that there were there was some
Speaker 8: kind of energetic exchange happening, whether that whether you know,
Speaker 8: we use the term energy vampire or a psychic vampire
Speaker 8: for just regular people in our lives who kiss us
Speaker 8: off right, You're like boss who sucks the air out
Speaker 8: of the room immediately he walks in. If you're talking
Speaker 8: about it, in an occult context, you're talking about somebody
Speaker 8: who's doing it more purposefully. They're trying to suck that
Speaker 8: energy out of you to kind of benefit themselves. And
Speaker 8: I think that there was a level of like energy
Speaker 8: siphoning or energy like vamporism going on in that in
Speaker 8: that place, I suspect purposefully. I don't remember sigils being
Speaker 8: a part of it explicitly, but it also wouldn't surprise
Speaker 8: me if that were the case.
Speaker 12: Well did you?
Speaker 7: I was just going to say, did you have any
Speaker 7: other supernatural experiences while you were a part of that
Speaker 7: cole other than like the and stuff.
Speaker 8: Most of what I directly experienced was stuff that took
Speaker 8: place in like a a dream or dream adjacent space.
Speaker 8: So and for that reason, you know, again, it's hard
Speaker 8: for me because I'm pretty pragmatic and skeptical, but I'm
Speaker 8: also somebody who like lives in this world and does
Speaker 8: this for a living. So I, in my brain, I
Speaker 8: hold two realities to be true at once. One, the
Speaker 8: brain is weird, and when we're asleep or hop asleep,
Speaker 8: it does also its a weird shit. But how you're
Speaker 8: going to interpret that weird shit that your brain is
Speaker 8: doing is really going to depend what your worldview is.
Speaker 8: If you're a super like you know, my partner is
Speaker 8: extremely scientific. He's like, he doesn't really He's fascinated by
Speaker 8: mysticism and the occult, but he doesn't really ascribe to it.
Speaker 8: He's a very sort of science based guy. And so
Speaker 8: if he has a hypnagogic hallucination of something, he's waken
Speaker 8: up from a dream and he sees, you know, a
Speaker 8: guy standing in the corner of his room, he's just
Speaker 8: going to be like, my brain's and something weird. If
Speaker 8: I see that, I'm going to say, my brain's doing
Speaker 8: something weird. But what is it trying to tell me?
Speaker 8: Is there some you know, why is this happening today
Speaker 8: instead of last week? Is there some message that I'm
Speaker 8: supposed to be taking from this thing that I'm seeing?
Speaker 8: Which I realize I'm rambling now, But to your point,
Speaker 8: most of the things that I experienced in the cult
Speaker 8: that I would describe as in some way paranormal took
Speaker 8: place in that kind of sphere. The biggest weirdest thing
Speaker 8: was that I did have one night an experience where
Speaker 8: I had been very frustrated with my lack of direct
Speaker 8: experience all these other people, you know, this now dead
Speaker 8: seventy five year old woman were walking around being like,
Speaker 8: oh yeah, I meet the vampires all the time, and
Speaker 8: they send me roses and take me out to lunch.
Speaker 8: And I'm like, bitch, excuse me, Like where's my interaction?
Speaker 8: You know, I'm pissed. I'm like, she looks like a
Speaker 8: tiny old woman and I'm a hot seventeen year old.
Speaker 8: What's going on over? Because stuff, where's.
Speaker 2: My It's like a mindfuck. I can see that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, so I can go in to bed that
Speaker 8: night and I'm like, you know, kind of talking in
Speaker 8: my head to one of these vampire moderators that I
Speaker 8: had a rapport with, and mentally, I'm just like, listen, motherfucker,
Speaker 8: Like this has gone on long enough. We have we
Speaker 8: have been talking back and forth for so long, and
Speaker 8: you've been playing these mind games with me, and you've
Speaker 8: been sending me these little dreams like show up, show up, motherfucker.
Speaker 4: I'm ready.
Speaker 8: I won't go crazy. So I full sleep and I
Speaker 8: wake up in the middle of the night as as
Speaker 8: you do sometimes, and I'm rolling over and I stretch
Speaker 8: my legs out a nice, big, like sleepy time stretch.
Speaker 8: And my foot connects with a shape on the end
Speaker 8: of my bed like a like a heft, and I
Speaker 8: think a trust is just like one of my cats
Speaker 8: or something, and so I kind of opened my eyes blearly,
Speaker 8: I'm kind of feeling around this lungk and I realized
Speaker 8: that it's too big to be a cat. And when
Speaker 8: I open my eyes, I see that it's a figure
Speaker 8: sitting on the end of my bed. And it was
Speaker 8: very odd because I don't get sleep paralysis. I definitely
Speaker 8: do have hypnogogic hallucinations, I definitely do have lucid dreams,
Speaker 8: but I've never been asleep paralysis girly. So I'm seeing
Speaker 8: this thing sitting at the end of my bed, and cognitively,
Speaker 8: I'm realizing, this is what you asked for, this is
Speaker 8: what you wanted to happen, like this is your chance.
Speaker 8: But then my entire body is flooded with terror, just
Speaker 8: extreme terror, like what I hear people when people describe
Speaker 8: sleep paralysis, I assume that this is what they're experiencing,
Speaker 8: like it was that level of visceral just like and
Speaker 8: then as I'm experiencing this, suddenly it's almost like getting anesthesia.
Speaker 8: I'm suddenly not afraid at all anymore. All the physical
Speaker 8: trappings of anxiety, like your heart rate going up and
Speaker 8: all of that, it just goes. And so again, cognitively,
Speaker 8: I know I'm scared, but I can't access the fear
Speaker 8: anymore more either. And as I'm looking at all this happened. This,
Speaker 8: this person is crawling up to bed, toward me, and
Speaker 8: my brain is my brain is like, stay awake, stay awake,
Speaker 8: stay awake, stay awake. You wanted this, don't go sleep,
Speaker 8: sleep And I just fall asleep. And I woke up
Speaker 8: in the morning and my bedside light was on, which
Speaker 8: it had been off before I had gone to bed.
Speaker 8: My bedroom door is open, which it had been closed
Speaker 8: before I went to bed, and I was like, well,
Speaker 8: and I think from memory, I logged onto the forum
Speaker 8: later that day, the group that I was a part of,
Speaker 8: and spoke to that moderator and he said some cryptic
Speaker 8: shit about you know, you know, how did you sleep
Speaker 8: or whatever, you know, which could have been just innocuous coincidence.
Speaker 7: But at the time, like you didn't say anything about it.
Speaker 8: I think I had. I might have had a conversation
Speaker 8: with him about it, but it was it was one
Speaker 8: of those things too, where you never wanted to like,
Speaker 8: you never wanted them to think that you were going crazy,
Speaker 8: because if they thought you were going crazy and you
Speaker 8: were like getting in way over your head, you were
Speaker 8: also going to get the boot, like if you were
Speaker 8: too crazy. So you had to kind of play it gingerly.
Speaker 8: And I think, I, you know, I'm sure we had
Speaker 8: it back and forth about it where he said some
Speaker 8: cryptic shit and I read into it and was secretly panicking,
Speaker 8: but I was just like, oh, yeah, it's looked fine.
Speaker 8: Why do you ask?
Speaker 7: You know, right, he's basically saying like like cryptic shit
Speaker 7: like nice Pj's last night, or right right, I hear.
Speaker 8: You say you're sleep bitch like whatever.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 7: So I just have to say, for me, if I
Speaker 7: experienced something like that, whether it was related to the
Speaker 7: form or not, I would perceive that it was and
Speaker 7: also it would make me feel like it was more
Speaker 7: real than ever. I don't know, you know, because you
Speaker 7: were awfully young when you were involved with this, and
Speaker 7: I know how I was at that age, and I
Speaker 7: feel like that would have been proof to me that
Speaker 7: these are this is like real and I'm really involved
Speaker 7: with something here.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can see how you got.
Speaker 7: Wrapped in that, because damn is all I got to
Speaker 7: say about that.
Speaker 1: Did they try and like encourage you to have because
Speaker 1: in the other interview I did, he spoke a lot
Speaker 1: about dreams but also dream sexually connecting, and I would assume,
Speaker 1: I mean, like, if they're in this group and they're
Speaker 1: trying to harness energy, that's like a really good way
Speaker 1: to do it.
Speaker 9: As sorry.
Speaker 8: The eleant in the room. Yeah, yes, it was. Again,
Speaker 8: it was one of those weird things where that was
Speaker 8: a topic that was definitely broached. It was also because
Speaker 8: it was also like still in a weird sense role play,
Speaker 8: Like it was still you know, these these people are
Speaker 8: these characters, and even though we really believe that they
Speaker 8: are these characters. We had a chat room, you know,
Speaker 8: a group chat room, and people would go in and
Speaker 8: like write little scenes together. We had this whole thing
Speaker 8: where there was like a graveyard that we would all
Speaker 8: go hang out in and write these little stories together.
Speaker 8: And multiple times over the history of my involvement with
Speaker 8: this group, various different members had you know, like cyber
Speaker 8: sax with the moderators and things like that, and there
Speaker 8: definitely were conversations about Oh, I'm going to come visit
Speaker 8: you in your dreams. Nudge n dwink wink. You know,
Speaker 8: never really happened to me. Interestingly, I think I was
Speaker 8: way too crazy pants and they were just like, oh,
Speaker 8: let's not give her any more fuel for that fire.
Speaker 8: She believes enough, she's enough of a loose canon without
Speaker 8: us adding that to the mix. But one of the
Speaker 8: things that did occur in the group, which in rent,
Speaker 8: I mean it could never happen today, like somebody's parents
Speaker 8: would be filing in lawsuit. There were kids who were
Speaker 8: like thirteen and fourteen who these people were having is
Speaker 8: like cyber sex relationships with you know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, every cult is a sex cult.
Speaker 8: It's inevitable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, fourteen was the age right for Joseph too,
Speaker 1: so I mean, but really, honestly, if they're practicing a
Speaker 1: cult magic, then they're they're going to know that, you know,
Speaker 1: especially if it's virginal hate to be weird.
Speaker 5: That's some powerful magic.
Speaker 4: You seen year old vamp sex right.
Speaker 8: Right, That's that's the that's the business that's going to
Speaker 8: make you young forever in one way or another, more
Speaker 8: imprisoned forever. You know, if it were twenty twenty five, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well that's why I had wanted to do it. I
Speaker 2: wanted to bring it up because I thought I could
Speaker 2: have been part of you know, like JJ was even
Speaker 2: trying to this before, like what's what's their means? What
Speaker 2: are they getting out of this? I was wondering if
Speaker 2: there was some sort of Yeah, if there was even
Speaker 2: just a hate saying it, just like Larper's who are
Speaker 2: even just trying to get some online as you send
Speaker 2: me a picture because something you're a.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've been talking about vampire cult here on the
Speaker 3: cult rejects across the United States, Mexico and now some
Speaker 3: Australia stuff. So is this the question we ask every
Speaker 3: other time is what's the Is this like Australian MK
Speaker 3: ultro situations connected to this.
Speaker 6: Because that's what it seems like with the American Mexican versions.
Speaker 2: Well that is true. I forgot that we have covered
Speaker 2: those vampire.
Speaker 6: We talked a lot of vampire stuff somewhat unrelated.
Speaker 3: He played a vampire, but he then finds that money
Speaker 3: to finance the sex cult stuff.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean everybody in this group. I was one
Speaker 8: of the only Australian people so everybody else was was
Speaker 8: US based. Even kulture thing is interesting. I mean, I
Speaker 8: don't believe this I will have yet, but like in
Speaker 8: my in my decade plus to like ruminate on all
Speaker 8: the experiences and just let my galaxy brain like ponder possibilities.
Speaker 8: There have been moments where I've been like this psyop,
Speaker 8: like was this some sort of like government like CIA
Speaker 8: psychic recruitment technique? And then I'm like, no, you need
Speaker 8: to I don't even smoke weed, but if I did, like,
Speaker 8: you need to stop, you need to put it down.
Speaker 8: That's a little too kooky. But you know, I mean,
Speaker 8: the thing is that the universe and the world and
Speaker 8: the Internet for sure are much weirder than we think
Speaker 8: they are. You know.
Speaker 7: But I think you're on the right track because I
Speaker 7: think they set up these forums and stuff not saying
Speaker 7: anything about you because.
Speaker 4: Obviously you're a lovely person.
Speaker 7: Oh no, of course, I think you look for levels
Speaker 7: of psychopathy and people. I think the QAnon thing should
Speaker 7: prove that to everyone.
Speaker 4: They weaponize these.
Speaker 7: Forums, They get into people's heads, they get them believe
Speaker 7: in stuff. They see what levels they can push you
Speaker 7: to act out in reality. And so yeah, I mean
Speaker 7: I think you were part of one, but I think
Speaker 7: there's many, many, many diverse, different ones you can become
Speaker 7: a part of. And they look for like people with
Speaker 7: levels of psychopathy that they can control and manipulate and essentially,
Speaker 7: you know, have them do things.
Speaker 8: I think you hit the name.
Speaker 6: I think they just want to study these study human behavior.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I'm glad you said that.
Speaker 8: I'm glad you put brought up the QAnon thing though.
Speaker 8: That's why I have a One of my best friends
Speaker 8: is a just got her PhD. And she's working in
Speaker 8: a research capacity, or was until very recently for reasons,
Speaker 8: but she's working on research to do with online extremism
Speaker 8: and you know how groups online can become a little
Speaker 8: dangerous for various reasons. She's been reading school shooter manifestos
Speaker 8: for the best better part of five years, and she's
Speaker 8: very tired and very sad, as you can imagine. But
Speaker 8: over the last seat week we were talking about this.
Speaker 8: She's known about this part of my history for years,
Speaker 8: but she was like, you really need to read this
Speaker 8: book by this woman who just published a nonfiction book
Speaker 8: about QAnon. And the book's called The Quiet Damage by
Speaker 8: Jesslin Cook. It's really, really really good. Highly recommend everybody
Speaker 8: read it. But it talks about what it looks like
Speaker 8: for regular people to get entangled in things like this,
Speaker 8: entangled into communities and into belief systems that do completely
Speaker 8: change their outlook on life, but also have these overatching consequences,
Speaker 8: not just for their immediate families and their social groups,
Speaker 8: but for you know, possibly the country, the world. And
Speaker 8: I think it's I think it's much more common when
Speaker 8: we think QAnon is the example that people point to
Speaker 8: is the real like oh boy, like that's the crazy
Speaker 8: the crazies, right, But there's a lot of groups like.
Speaker 7: That, And I was gonna say there was like varying
Speaker 7: degrees of it. There's somebody who's been in our chat
Speaker 7: the last couple of minutes. His name is Drew, and
Speaker 7: I actually did a show with him before and we
Speaker 7: talked about the Hoover Dam and there was a guy
Speaker 7: who got obsessed with QAnon and he got in his
Speaker 7: car and drove it to the Hoover Dam and was
Speaker 7: going to try to.
Speaker 4: Blow it up or something like that.
Speaker 7: I mean, it's it's crazy, it's absolutely crazy. People get
Speaker 7: obsessed with these things. But I have to say though, do.
Speaker 4: You remember when my Space came out?
Speaker 7: All right, that was like the thing to do before Facebook,
Speaker 7: and you had like your top five friends or whatever.
Speaker 4: You put a little on your.
Speaker 8: If you took someone out of your top five.
Speaker 7: Yes, I mean I was so to MySpace when it
Speaker 7: first came out, and I didn't catfish. The movie had
Speaker 7: not come out yet, and there were several times I
Speaker 7: was catfished. And when I look back on it, these profiles,
Speaker 7: they'd have like five pictures and they were all like,
Speaker 7: you know, like supermodel edited, like super hot emo guys,
Speaker 7: because that was like my generation was like emo guys.
Speaker 7: And they all had on like Sleeping with Sirens t
Speaker 7: shirts and they just were like the perfect Like, oh
Speaker 7: my god, I was so obsessed. Easily I could have
Speaker 7: been lured to the mall, kidnapped, raped, thrown in a van,
Speaker 7: dead by the river. It would have been so easy
Speaker 7: because nobody thought about that stuff back then, like oh,
Speaker 7: this can't be a real person. Let me do some
Speaker 7: FBI type shit and find out, like you know, and
Speaker 7: look at this.
Speaker 4: It just wasn't.
Speaker 7: Nowadays, I think everybody's a freaking sci op person.
Speaker 4: I don't even trust family members anymore. But like it's
Speaker 4: just right thing back.
Speaker 8: Then, and it was harder to even like even if
Speaker 8: you had thought to yourself this, like, you know, xx
Speaker 8: my wrist slit. XX boy looks a little sketchy. I
Speaker 8: don't know if he's real or not. Like, even if
Speaker 8: that had crossed your mind, the tools to sleuth it
Speaker 8: out were not there. No, it wasn't like it is now.
Speaker 8: You have like, you know, your little AI Facebook up
Speaker 8: sites where you can upload someone's picture and be like,
Speaker 8: exactly where else on the Internet this person has been
Speaker 8: you know, yeah.
Speaker 7: Like a Google image search of that person's profile, pick
Speaker 7: and then they turn up to be like somebody else.
Speaker 7: I mean, that's how that catfish lady got away with
Speaker 7: it for so long, because she would take like pictures
Speaker 7: from Google or other people's facebooks and like upload them,
Speaker 7: and dude, she had a whole network worked out. But
Speaker 7: social media and these forums and stuff and themselves I
Speaker 7: think were very They were created by design, obviously for
Speaker 7: some type of outcome, and I think that they've been
Speaker 7: working perfectly for whatever.
Speaker 8: That is.
Speaker 2: Something I wanted to ask, and I actually mean this seriously.
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to get an that's what's going on
Speaker 2: here or how far does this go besides vampires in
Speaker 2: this thing? Did they entertain other things that were maybe
Speaker 2: like you know, fairies and gnomes or like, I'm being serious,
Speaker 2: but no, I take.
Speaker 8: It in real life? Who think gnomes are real?
Speaker 2: Yeah no, no, no, but I'm just you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, It's fine.
Speaker 8: Yeah, no, not really. I mean I think that there
Speaker 8: was some We definitely had, like a paranormal board on
Speaker 8: the forum. I mean for anyone who's listening, and you
Speaker 8: guys will well know, but for anyone who's listening is
Speaker 8: like forums boards why you know, like you had your
Speaker 8: main forum, but then you had your sub boards kind
Speaker 8: of like in a discord server for like different stuff.
Speaker 8: And there was definitely a paranormal board where people would
Speaker 8: talk about. Ghosts were a big thing, like ghost spirits, apparitions,
Speaker 8: stuff like that. And I think if anyone ever came
Speaker 8: across like an interesting story about an encounter with something
Speaker 8: else like an alien or a gnome or whatever, I'm
Speaker 8: sure we would talk about it. But it wasn't so
Speaker 8: much part of the world, you know, what they were
Speaker 8: building and trying to really push.
Speaker 2: On people, so it was like really just strictly. I
Speaker 2: guess what I'm trying to get out was like there's
Speaker 2: in like other forums for other things that it was
Speaker 2: just strictly really that vampire.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it was like vampires all day, every day, okay,
Speaker 8: or mostly all night because you know there's.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Jin said something about a PDF of Buddhism for vampires.
Speaker 4: What is that?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 11: So he was a guy that the guy who runs it,
Speaker 11: he was a very famous Typhoni and Oto member, and
Speaker 11: he he did train I don't know how extensively.
Speaker 12: He doesn't say that's usually how it goes, but he did.
Speaker 11: He has some kind of initiation into some basic vagoriana practices.
Speaker 11: So then he created like a whole system of psychic vampiism.
Speaker 11: He called it Buddhism for vampires because, as I said,
Speaker 11: we do discuss like very carnal ground kinds of ideas.
Speaker 11: So yeah, I mean there, but it is it is
Speaker 11: like Celestin Nick we're talking about. It is typhony and Oto,
Speaker 11: but then it's also there are vau Griana things there
Speaker 11: are maybe like a kind of that like superficial I'm
Speaker 11: using the word in a more occultist way, but more
Speaker 11: of a satanic you know, flavor, but it's not it's
Speaker 11: not really like crazy Satanism. It's more just the aesthetic
Speaker 11: maybe like maybe a goth aesthetic.
Speaker 12: So that's really what Buddhism for vampires is.
Speaker 11: But even if you look at the logo for it,
Speaker 11: it is just the seven seven seven thing like the
Speaker 11: Telema star.
Speaker 12: That's all is.
Speaker 11: But they just they make they gave it like a
Speaker 11: Buddhist Flairsonian mean, w.
Speaker 8: J Jin will be better at explaining that than me,
Speaker 8: because I'm a I'm only a peripheral o geo nowhere.
Speaker 11: Well, I mean, I'm I'm honestly my background is more
Speaker 11: like you sluss in a way because like I came
Speaker 11: from a left time path Catholicism kind of like I
Speaker 11: was really into grimoires and like you know, left hand
Speaker 11: path saints and all that stuff, as everybody.
Speaker 8: Already like Cyprian and stuff.
Speaker 11: Yeah, like Cyprian, and there's other ones there's like saying
Speaker 11: Lucy obviously, Saint Peter all those yeah, also left time path.
Speaker 11: So it depends, right, But uh so Typhony and Otio. Well,
Speaker 11: I'm familiar with Kenneth Grant, so I'll explain it like this.
Speaker 11: Julia is Kenneth Grant. He basically wrote a series of
Speaker 11: parafictional books, just like I mentioned before, So his books
Speaker 11: are half fiction half oto material, but he takes it
Speaker 11: in a Lovecraftian way. Well, there's really two factions. There's
Speaker 11: a love Craftian faction, and you can see this with
Speaker 11: Temple of Set, like I really like Don Webb. Don
Speaker 11: Webb also Temple of Set, but he became a Buddhist afterwards, interestingly,
Speaker 11: but he wrote a lot of these kind of books
Speaker 11: on a Lovecraft and how they were using this idea
Speaker 11: of Lovecraft in their magic, and how Aquino was so
Speaker 11: into it. But then there's this other faction that is
Speaker 11: into Conan, the Barbarian and the Hyperborean stories.
Speaker 8: I do.
Speaker 11: Though there was a kind of factional divide. I just
Speaker 11: find that very interesting. But basically he's talking about like
Speaker 11: abistle gods and the Mavre and he calls it the
Speaker 11: Gray Lodge. I also have a thing called the Gray Lodge.
Speaker 11: It's not related, but it is interesting that we both
Speaker 11: have the same title. But basically he's he's bringing these
Speaker 11: ideas that not necessarily come from mythology, are not necessarily
Speaker 11: come from excuse me, like a religious cosmology, but he's
Speaker 11: drawing from this kind of fictional mythology that's contemporary, and
Speaker 11: they're bringing into actual magical ideas not just the facts
Speaker 11: of the fiction, but they're actually applying like more technical ideas,
Speaker 11: and then they're slotting in the names.
Speaker 12: The faces, the aesthetic, it's all of it.
Speaker 7: And so could you do that with anything though? Could
Speaker 7: you do that with like vampires and put them in there? Yeah?
Speaker 8: Yes, okay, that's what pass magicians magic.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, chass magic with typhony and
Speaker 1: sex magic to the goddess.
Speaker 2: That's another reason why I asked about the sigils as well,
Speaker 2: and there are I'm just saying a lot of chas
Speaker 2: magicians and love sigils. So that's why I was asking
Speaker 2: if people are using something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, j wealth of knowledge.
Speaker 3: I love you for sure always, Jim, thank you.
Speaker 8: That was an awesome and awesome explanation. I've always been
Speaker 8: fascinated by the Tifoni and Oto. I mean, I love lovecraft,
Speaker 8: and even though I have not now and will not
Speaker 8: ever join the Oto in any capacity for personal reasons,
Speaker 8: I am fascinated, you know by that. I think there's
Speaker 8: it's such rich fodder like stories are rich fodder, right,
Speaker 8: especially if you get a rich mythology like love crafty
Speaker 8: and mythology or I mean, I am only possibly familiar
Speaker 8: with Conan the Barbarian, but you're kind of you're taking
Speaker 8: an intellectual property or a world or a mythology that
Speaker 8: already has all the interlocking parts, but also an engine
Speaker 8: of people who have fed into it, even though most
Speaker 8: people are not reading HP. Love Crofts work and being like, oh,
Speaker 8: that's all definitely real. It's it's energy behind it from
Speaker 8: people for you know, well not hundreds of years, but
Speaker 8: people for like a very long time reading and investing
Speaker 8: and being interested, and that that's energy. That's energy that
Speaker 8: they was a little battery.
Speaker 4: They made a show about it, right, my am. I
Speaker 4: the only one who saw that. It was like HB.
Speaker 4: Love Craft Show.
Speaker 2: County.
Speaker 8: I didn't watch it, but I heard it was.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, I saw the first season and it's everything
Speaker 7: you would expect it to be. But yeah, no, this stuff,
Speaker 7: this stuff really interests me because you know, I talk
Speaker 7: a lot about occultism and stuff like that, but I
Speaker 7: don't I don't know the ins and outs of it,
Speaker 7: like you know, Gin or even Celeste or Nick. I
Speaker 7: just I know that peripheral. If I want to know
Speaker 7: something about the process church, I'll ask you aj.
Speaker 6: That I do know.
Speaker 3: There you go, I can tell I can help you
Speaker 3: with that that as well. But one thing I did
Speaker 3: know about the Typhony and Oto is they have further
Speaker 3: offshoots that are these werewolf and vampire orders.
Speaker 8: I believe interesting. Interesting.
Speaker 11: One thing I want to I just want to deny
Speaker 11: any rumors that I'm associated with any of this. I
Speaker 11: really come from it from a chaos magic perspective. That's
Speaker 11: really my interest, Julia, is that I like the the
Speaker 11: lifting of frameworks like that. You can take just the
Speaker 11: magic framework and you can sort of apply ideas to it,
Speaker 11: but I take it all conceptual. So that's a true
Speaker 11: chaos magic. Maybe you could say true chaos magician. You
Speaker 11: just take it comes completely in your mind. And so
Speaker 11: Buddhism makes it's like the next logical step if you're
Speaker 11: able to do that.
Speaker 12: Whereas some people they require all this.
Speaker 11: I Nick will laugh, but I call it like the
Speaker 11: ceremonial LARPing, like they you know, they require the ren fare.
Speaker 11: I'm not saying that it's I'm not saying that you
Speaker 11: don't burn candles and do all that stuff that can
Speaker 11: be useful for sure. But I'm just saying if you
Speaker 11: need like a whole ritual like thing, then yeah, maybe
Speaker 11: you would be more interested in like Typhony and don't
Speaker 11: you I'm just interested in the ideas.
Speaker 7: The ritualism interests me because I remember one time I
Speaker 7: was talking to Nick and he made me laugh my
Speaker 7: fucking ass off because he said he was doing something
Speaker 7: in his bedroom with swinging some incense or doing something
Speaker 7: and his.
Speaker 4: Wife walked in and was like, what are you doing
Speaker 4: the Catholic rise.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, literally, it's the Catholicism has a lot of
Speaker 7: that ritualism in it.
Speaker 4: So it just it interests me about that.
Speaker 2: So one thing I did want to mention about the
Speaker 2: Typhonian order. If you're like into like the Limaic magic
Speaker 2: or even Golden Down or a lot of like I
Speaker 2: would even assume maybe even the Temple is set, I
Speaker 2: don't you know stuff like that. At least with Alma,
Speaker 2: you're going to be practicing like the Hexagram ritual, in
Speaker 2: the Pentagram ritual probably for a long time. You know,
Speaker 2: that's going to be like, you know, something that you
Speaker 2: were used to doing constantly and in the hexagram ritual.
Speaker 2: You use the LVX formula and in there at some
Speaker 2: point you acknowledge purfos in Typhon. And the weird thing
Speaker 2: is that the whole LVX formula is Egyptian. That's why
Speaker 2: he uses a pofos. But then twas is in the
Speaker 2: Greek Pophus having Typhon, you know, and that's kind of
Speaker 2: like the rising beast in my opinion. You know, that's
Speaker 2: where I think it's symbolizing you. You even go like
Speaker 2: that when you when you acknowledge a profis in Typhon.
Speaker 2: So I have wondered if I do think that when
Speaker 2: it comes to the typhony in order, maybe at the
Speaker 2: beginning it was more for people that he thought that
Speaker 2: might have like had experienced maybe like actual magical experiences
Speaker 2: or the abyss. I could be wrong, But another reason
Speaker 2: why I do think that might be possible is because
Speaker 2: when it first started, I don't know if it's still
Speaker 2: like this. He took the same like pretty much adopted
Speaker 2: the same oto initiations or degrees. But you do not
Speaker 2: have to start off at the first if you if
Speaker 2: he didn't think you belonged it. So now if you
Speaker 2: did have a magical experience, and in my opinion, you
Speaker 2: did cross the abyss. You shouldn't be coming in starting
Speaker 2: a fucking first, you should be coming in where you belong.
Speaker 2: So I'm wondering if that is just more proof of
Speaker 2: why I do think that that might be the difference
Speaker 2: between that order as well, Like I don't think. I
Speaker 2: think maybe at exception, he wasn't so much trying to
Speaker 2: have people come there that I don't know what the
Speaker 2: fuck they're doing.
Speaker 4: That makes sense, Like newbies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, are people who don't actually know what magic.
Speaker 8: Didn't want?
Speaker 4: Doesn't it take a while to really understand what it is?
Speaker 4: Because I mean.
Speaker 7: There's so many Actually I have a question for use list,
Speaker 7: and you're the first witch I've ever met, So don't
Speaker 7: judge me.
Speaker 4: I did being a part of this cult? Did it
Speaker 4: lead you into those interests?
Speaker 7: Like did it lead you down the thought of like
Speaker 7: I want to do witchery stuff?
Speaker 1: You know? Not?
Speaker 8: Really? I have a weird like story with how that
Speaker 8: part of my life like kicked off And it sounds
Speaker 8: like very cringe almost to tell it, but like literally,
Speaker 8: when I was like six and seven years old, I
Speaker 8: was like pretending to be a fortune teller, like in
Speaker 8: my like little like hut in the garden, and like
Speaker 8: I was just always extremely drawn to that stuff, reading
Speaker 8: a lot of like kids books, but reading books about
Speaker 8: witches and stuff when I was like very little. So
Speaker 8: I don't know where that comes from for me. I
Speaker 8: mean a lot of kids have spooky interests, but for me,
Speaker 8: it really was like lifelong, and it just evolved over
Speaker 8: time into researching and learning about more serious stuff, and
Speaker 8: beginning when I was wickaned, primarily when I was a
Speaker 8: teenager because much like fan pass By having a boom,
Speaker 8: so we're witches because of the craft.
Speaker 4: And stuff I was gonna see.
Speaker 7: I wonder did those two things kind of like ran together,
Speaker 7: Like maybe the in the cult kind of fueled your
Speaker 7: other interests.
Speaker 8: It definitely few It definitely like fueled it to some
Speaker 8: degree it existed beforehand, but it definitely kind of it
Speaker 8: introduced me to a lot of occult topics that I
Speaker 8: probably wouldn't have found otherwise until much later, stuff like
Speaker 8: to Betan Buddhism and the mysticism into Betan Buddhism. I mean,
Speaker 8: I wouldn't probably have encountered that on my own until
Speaker 8: much much later if I hadn't been in the cult.
Speaker 8: So it springboarded me into more serious occultism at like
Speaker 8: a young age. But I think I would always have
Speaker 8: found that to be like a path that I would
Speaker 8: have gone down. It just it took it in a
Speaker 8: in an interesting direction at an earlier age, I think.
Speaker 7: And you do it professionally, you said, for like the
Speaker 7: last seven or eight years.
Speaker 8: Yeah. So I have done like magic and psychic stuff
Speaker 8: for work since I was about nineteen, but very like
Speaker 8: part time. I started as an online psychic as a
Speaker 8: part time job when I was about nineteen, from a
Speaker 8: cye called Cassamba, which still exists. I do not work
Speaker 8: for them anymore because they would not pay me enough.
Speaker 8: But I did that, you know, as a side hustle
Speaker 8: all through college, and you know, continued to do such
Speaker 8: things as a side hustle for a long time. And
Speaker 8: then in about twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, maybe I was
Speaker 8: very very unhappy in my marketing job, my full time
Speaker 8: marketing job for a retro clothing company, and I kind
Speaker 8: of rage quit to just do it full time. I
Speaker 8: worked for a while out in Jackson Square in the
Speaker 8: French Quarter as that one of the little Terror readers
Speaker 8: set up at a lot cool going out there. It
Speaker 8: was cool except people got stabbed a lot, and that
Speaker 8: wasn't so cool.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I had no shit, you know.
Speaker 8: I was not a fan of that. So after a
Speaker 8: little while out there, I got a job at some
Speaker 8: of the little stores in the French Quarter, just reading
Speaker 8: cards and stuff, and worked for a while at the
Speaker 8: vampire broutine in the French Quarter, which is another interesting
Speaker 8: kind of like intersection of vampires coming back into the story.
Speaker 8: And then I got my own store in the French
Speaker 8: Quarter in twenty twenty, Like right at the beginning of
Speaker 8: twenty twenty, I signed this lease on my own storefront,
Speaker 8: which you know, in Tara Reader New Orleans terms, is
Speaker 8: like you've hit the big, the big big, if you're
Speaker 8: getting your own shop, you know. So I super stroked
Speaker 8: about that. I was in business with a friend of mine.
Speaker 8: We decorated the whole place, super excited, and then COVID
Speaker 8: lockdowns happened. I was gonna say yeah, and so for
Speaker 8: me though, actually it was a lifesaver because I actually
Speaker 8: hate talking to people face to face. Like I'm a
Speaker 8: very low energy person as far as like being one
Speaker 8: on one in person with people. I don't I love
Speaker 8: the Internet. I love talking online and phone and all
Speaker 8: of that, but it drains me very quickly having to
Speaker 8: be like face time with people face. So I was
Speaker 8: already kind of almost wishing I hadn't signed this lease
Speaker 8: because I was like, oh God, am I going to
Speaker 8: do those for sixty hours a week for like the
Speaker 8: rest of my life? Just go down to the French
Speaker 8: Quarter and have to find parking and deal with people?
Speaker 8: Oh uh? And then yeah, the lockdown's happened. I was
Speaker 8: very lucky. The person I was renting from said that
Speaker 8: it was cool, we would just cancel the lease, and
Speaker 8: I pivoted everything online. And so for the past five
Speaker 8: years full time, I've just been I do spell work
Speaker 8: for people. I do readings, I do truants like mediumship
Speaker 8: sessions and stuff like that.
Speaker 7: What is spell What's spell work?
Speaker 8: Pretty much what it sounds like. So you know, if
Speaker 8: you're if you're a magical practitioner or an occultist, you know, uh,
Speaker 8: they're going to people are going to call it different things,
Speaker 8: depending on what they practice and what their path is.
Speaker 8: More ceremonial magicians are probably going to call it rituals
Speaker 8: rather than spell work, which sounds kind of like Shinzy.
Speaker 8: You know, we can do a little spell work with
Speaker 8: our little jars and our little candles. But but yeah,
Speaker 8: it's it's essentially it's a ritual or a spell that
Speaker 8: is done with various different materials in order to impact
Speaker 8: or affect a desired outcome. And so if you learn
Speaker 8: witchcraft or magic, or you know, you've become initiated into
Speaker 8: any of the initiatory traditions, you're going to learn how
Speaker 8: to do it in a certain way. In my opinion,
Speaker 8: anyone can learn. As Nick was saying earlier, I don't
Speaker 8: think that means everybody on the planet is going to
Speaker 8: experience real magic, because that does take years of study
Speaker 8: and sometimes it just takes circumstance and kismet whether or
Speaker 8: not you're going to have that experience or not. But
Speaker 8: in theory, you don't have to be special in any
Speaker 8: way to learn how to do magic. Anyone can learn
Speaker 8: how to do magic. However, for my clients, a lot
Speaker 8: of them don't want to do that. They would rather
Speaker 8: just pay somebody else to do it, and so I
Speaker 8: do it for them.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Interesting, that's so interesting. Have you ever had anybody be
Speaker 7: like I want this person dead or do something bad
Speaker 7: to this person.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not serious. Oh yeah, it happens.
Speaker 3: What's the curse environment situation here, for example? What's your
Speaker 3: opinion of haunted dolls?
Speaker 2: Curses?
Speaker 8: Oh, I think haunted dolls exist, but I have a
Speaker 8: I guess, a quirky opinion on haunted dolls. I think exists.
Speaker 8: I don't know if anyone here has read the work
Speaker 8: of Oh my god, what is her name? I'm going
Speaker 8: to forget now. She wrote the Exorcists Handbook. Her name
Speaker 8: is Josephine something, but I'm now McCarthy.
Speaker 4: Like real stuff.
Speaker 8: Yeah, Josephine McCarthy is a occultist from the UK. She's
Speaker 8: fascinating lady, and she really knows her shit. And she
Speaker 8: worked as a as a straight up exorcist, not in
Speaker 8: the Catholic tradition, She's not Catholic, but she worked as
Speaker 8: like an exorcist for years and years and years. And
Speaker 8: she has an interesting theory about like haunted objects, haunted dolls.
Speaker 8: She says that in her experience professionally over like thirty
Speaker 8: plus years of doing exorcisms, anything with a face is
Speaker 8: something that is hear, it is going.
Speaker 4: Why does that give me the fucking creeps.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I was hoping you're gonna say that
Speaker 3: they don't exist, That's what I was hoping.
Speaker 8: I'm sorry. No, I think I've never met one personally,
Speaker 8: but I do think they're real.
Speaker 4: Like Annabelle, I've met a doll?
Speaker 8: Really you did? Ye?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 7: Is that that's Chucky West?
Speaker 6: Yeah, down down in the Key West, in Key West.
Speaker 8: I've seen him too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're they're dangerous folks down there. You don't put
Speaker 3: a hanted doll in a civil war for it, or
Speaker 3: some historian buff such as myself might stumble across it.
Speaker 3: No bad photograph. We didn't get cursed for about ten
Speaker 3: or twelve years, did you really? Yeah?
Speaker 8: Yeah, that can happened.
Speaker 9: I do, and I think you know, yeah.
Speaker 8: Depending on your worldview, right, spirits are everywhere you know,
Speaker 8: They're not They're not special and only hiding in these
Speaker 8: like very specific areas, fing you up. Spirits are all
Speaker 8: over the place. I last night, so I lived with
Speaker 8: another occultist. My my roommate is former Mormon now an occultist.
Speaker 8: Lovely guy.
Speaker 7: Oh so transition from one transition.
Speaker 8: To he's amazing. But I was when I came out
Speaker 8: of my room last night into the kitchen. I was
Speaker 8: just going to get water or something, and he's in
Speaker 8: the kitchen also when he pulls me aside and he
Speaker 8: was like, I just need to tell you that. When
Speaker 8: I was coming in here earlier, I glanced into the
Speaker 8: living room and I thought I saw you sitting in
Speaker 8: a chair with your hand, with your hands over your eyes.
Speaker 8: And then I looked again and realized it wasn't you.
Speaker 8: I just think you should know. And I said, yeah, okay,
Speaker 8: that's good intel to have. I said, how did it feel?
Speaker 8: He said wet? I said wet. He was like, it
Speaker 8: felt wet. I didn't like it. I was like, okay,
Speaker 8: that's not great. I said, well, what are you going?
Speaker 8: What are we going to do about this? You know,
Speaker 8: we're instantly in occult roommate problem solving mode, because neither
Speaker 8: one of us has time for that. We're not really scared.
Speaker 8: We're just like, h no. And so he goes and
Speaker 8: gets some of his his his cleansing cologne and sprints
Speaker 8: is it over the chair in the living room. And
Speaker 8: I'm trying to think to myself, like this is spirit.
Speaker 8: I've lived in this house for almost eight years and
Speaker 8: I don't really experience any you know, problematic spirit activity
Speaker 8: for the most part, So what could this be? And
Speaker 8: then I said, I said to my room and I
Speaker 8: was like, you know, it's interesting you say wet. I said,
Speaker 8: when I first moved in here, I did distinctly get
Speaker 8: the impression that somebody had died in the bathtub in
Speaker 8: like the in the bathroom in the hallway. And he
Speaker 8: was like, oh shit, And I said, yeah, I said,
Speaker 8: but I've never had any problem with that spirit, Like
Speaker 8: I just said to her. You know, I'm a little crazy,
Speaker 8: so if I think there's a spirit around, I'll be like, Hi,
Speaker 8: I need to do things. Please don't disrupt my life. Sorry,
Speaker 8: I said, yeah, me and that spirit are cool, Like,
Speaker 8: I don't think it would be causing problems. And then
Speaker 8: I remembered that the night before I had taken a
Speaker 8: bath in that bathroom where this woman I think drowned,
Speaker 8: and I had forgotten to in the bathtub, like I
Speaker 8: had been on the phone with someone and I didn't
Speaker 8: want them to know I was in the bath so
Speaker 8: like I got out of the bath and just like
Speaker 8: kept the stopper in so I didn't have the water
Speaker 8: gurgling sound. And I had left the bath full for
Speaker 8: the entire day, and I was like, Oh, that's it.
Speaker 8: The spirit's pissed like this, she.
Speaker 4: Cut out, she cut out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she did say that she was having a
Speaker 2: bad weather there so that this might have happened.
Speaker 7: It's the magic, the spirit, it's.
Speaker 1: The water bathtub portal sucked her back in because I'm
Speaker 1: not kidding the spirit's.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask more questions about Josephin McCarthy.
Speaker 7: Another question, Come yeah, JJ, are you really cursed?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I run, I read and Nick I read him a
Speaker 3: letter a couple of couple of months ago. Robert the
Speaker 3: oh that is wrote him a letter. Let me tell you, Julie,
Speaker 3: I can feel I can feel a long, long discussion
Speaker 3: in the last twelve or so years have been cursed
Speaker 3: by that damn Robert the Doll.
Speaker 6: They were talking about it on the Rejects last year.
Speaker 3: It or I'm out, I'm out, I'm leaving this place.
Speaker 3: I'm not even going to one near this thing. And
Speaker 3: you're talking what you do to it?
Speaker 5: You had to make it mad.
Speaker 9: Did you?
Speaker 3: I took a photograph with it without asking him. Apparently
Speaker 3: you got to ask him first. And at the time
Speaker 3: I was like, Yeah, that's ridiculous. I'm not I'm going
Speaker 3: to ask this a stupid doll.
Speaker 1: I can take a photograph, I hear what well, looking now, JJ,
Speaker 1: looking out.
Speaker 6: Like this thing might be onto something here.
Speaker 4: I might be cursed you before you took the picture, but.
Speaker 6: I'm not gonna lie to you.
Speaker 3: So like every year around it like December first, about
Speaker 3: every year, I'd start considering. After about year five or so,
Speaker 3: I'd start considering, damn it, did that doll curse me?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: And then around the year twelve, I was like, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna finally write that doll letter and say I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: Did you really Jake?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I hope, but imagine how that went.
Speaker 6: I don't think.
Speaker 3: Well, I hope it hasn't gone well since then. I'm
Speaker 3: to be honest with you, it's.
Speaker 5: Uh, you're gonna have to go back there.
Speaker 9: Yeah, face to face apology.
Speaker 11: We need to find the current Darrow who can deal
Speaker 11: with it for you, like in person.
Speaker 9: That's what's up.
Speaker 11: Then you need to go to like the doll and
Speaker 11: you have to like give him like a seven day.
Speaker 12: Candle or something.
Speaker 5: The homage it.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm still.
Speaker 3: Writ in the Chamber of commerce to tell them they're
Speaker 3: irresponsible for putting a haunted Kerstell out in public like
Speaker 3: that flagrantly.
Speaker 7: I mean, you need an exorcism, you need like you need,
Speaker 7: like the power of Christ compels you like that.
Speaker 1: I think we should have Jonathan do it from the cults.
Speaker 1: Let him know, Lord have mercy.
Speaker 8: Though.
Speaker 7: You need to get tied down, strayed with p sue it,
Speaker 7: do all of it.
Speaker 1: You have to get naked, because half the time they
Speaker 1: get naked they rip their close off.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 7: Sure, yeah, piss and ship everywhere or else desertate.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure what this solation is, but I'm not
Speaker 3: the first person to be cursed by Robert the doll.
Speaker 3: The whole room that he sits in down there at
Speaker 3: this old Civil War fort where he's they've been into
Speaker 3: a museum of Robert for some reason. It sits on
Speaker 3: a mound by.
Speaker 5: The way to curse people, by the way to curse.
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly intentionally. There's flagrant irresponsibles.
Speaker 4: They put him on what's that, They put him on
Speaker 4: a mound the.
Speaker 3: Well the Civil War fort was built on top of
Speaker 3: the mound. He's inside the Civil Wars ah.
Speaker 4: She's back, Oh, gosh, your bag.
Speaker 8: God damn it.
Speaker 4: I had at least three more.
Speaker 1: We were talking about ghosts while you were gone to
Speaker 1: I definitely say it's because you left the water in
Speaker 1: the tub and that's a portal and you might have
Speaker 1: you know, you know.
Speaker 4: One thing I summoned it?
Speaker 9: Can you hear c lest I can hear you?
Speaker 5: Can you hear me?
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, you sound great?
Speaker 8: Okay, sorry about that.
Speaker 5: That was weird.
Speaker 8: Don't talk shit about gross. I guess this lady was
Speaker 8: pissed at me and she was like, let's shut the
Speaker 8: whole shit down, like stop saying words about me.
Speaker 2: Denied. One thing I did want to ask you about. Uh,
Speaker 2: you mentioned josephin McCarthy. Did you know about her her
Speaker 2: magical order?
Speaker 8: I heard about it. I don't know a ton about it,
Speaker 8: but I did hear about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I actually, uh, you know, I do
Speaker 2: you know I've talked about before. I think I've even
Speaker 2: mentioned it once or twice, But you know, I have
Speaker 2: talked about tons of times that I was in the
Speaker 2: OTO and I had stopped going for a bit before
Speaker 2: COVID happened, and then I started joining in on the
Speaker 2: zoom things. And when I had stopped going for probably
Speaker 2: about like sixty eight months. I was actually using that
Speaker 2: system instead. Oh really, Yeah, so when you said that was.
Speaker 8: Like, oh did you find it? You found it to
Speaker 8: be a good workable system.
Speaker 2: I think. So it's a little bit more personal. You're
Speaker 2: not really from what I as far as I got,
Speaker 2: you're not really working with it's hard to explain, like
Speaker 2: Pantheon's a gods. It's actually just very personal stuff. So
Speaker 2: that's interesting. I mean, you are doing ritual work, but
Speaker 2: it's not like I don't remember it wasn't It's it's different.
Speaker 2: It's definitely different.
Speaker 8: Yeah. I like her approach a lot. I think she's
Speaker 8: a fascinating person. And if you know, if I'm sure
Speaker 8: you have, but if if anyone ever listens to her talk,
Speaker 8: you know, on podcasts or whatever, she's just a wonderful
Speaker 8: breath of fresh air in the occult world. Because she's
Speaker 8: a you know, a slight not older woman, but she's
Speaker 8: you know, I think in her fifties, I believe. And
Speaker 8: she's got this like strong Northern England accent. She's just
Speaker 8: like very mad, she's very matter of fact.
Speaker 2: She's like shoots from the hip.
Speaker 8: Oh you know, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know one thing she did say that
Speaker 2: did kind of actually help nudge me out of the
Speaker 2: OTO and sense too. Uh. And it's not that like
Speaker 2: I'm promoting her stuff, because again I used, you know,
Speaker 2: very did very little. She even says, to go through
Speaker 2: the whole course expect I think seventeenth to twenty years.
Speaker 2: So obviously I didn't do much. But uh, she the
Speaker 2: way she had put it, and it really dawned on me,
Speaker 2: like really good when she said this. One time, I
Speaker 2: was listening to a podcast that she did, and she
Speaker 2: did say that when you go to these orders, they said,
Speaker 2: all you're gonna do is get their their shade of magic.
Speaker 2: She says. Let's say the outlet is actual magic, and well,
Speaker 2: you're tapping into that, and then it comes to that
Speaker 2: light bulb. She says, once like the OTO is like
Speaker 2: throwing that red shade on top of it. That's the OTO.
Speaker 2: Then like let's say the gold Ones the Golden don
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, You're not actually really tapping
Speaker 2: into the source, you're just learning to tap into their
Speaker 2: shade of magic.
Speaker 8: She says, I think it's.
Speaker 2: Much better for you to just go to the source.
Speaker 2: And she said, that's what she.
Speaker 9: Thought sties for.
Speaker 12: That's really profound out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And when I heard that, I was like, that's interesting,
Speaker 2: I said, because I could see what you know I
Speaker 2: have because there is a specific idea with the O
Speaker 2: t O or other orders, they have their own pantheons
Speaker 2: and their own like ideas are almost religious text.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 7: Does this lady do distant exorcisms? Because I think JJ
Speaker 7: needs one.
Speaker 8: I think she's retired now. Unfortunately, I think.
Speaker 4: I wrote about you, Celeste.
Speaker 7: Do you do any distant exorcisms?
Speaker 8: Most of the magic I do for clients is distance.
Speaker 8: So yeah, you know, Robert, Robert the Dall Exorcist, you know,
Speaker 8: you know some some players can help me out. I
Speaker 8: feel like we could. I feel like we could figure
Speaker 8: something out. Robert the Doll still bothering you all these
Speaker 8: years later.
Speaker 6: You wouldn't believe. You wouldn't believe the tales of I
Speaker 6: told you he would.
Speaker 4: He's being totally serious.
Speaker 3: Nick nixt heard of a portion of what I've gone
Speaker 3: through over the last twelve or so.
Speaker 2: I was even going to say, just at the time
Speaker 2: that I've known him, I could probably say he's probably.
Speaker 4: Your curse. He needs it.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I got to hook him up with that Saint
Speaker 12: Cyprian stuff.
Speaker 8: So yeah, there you go, on the case, we'll do it.
Speaker 7: So I have a question for a celest I mean,
Speaker 7: obviously I don't I don't deal in any of this stuff.
Speaker 7: But in your opinion, you know, magic is real, magic works,
Speaker 7: but not everybody knows what they're doing.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, yep, that's okay.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, certain magic like we've talked about before, solomonic
Speaker 1: magic and stuff you got. You can't be messing around
Speaker 1: like you will, yeah, talk about.
Speaker 8: Because because it's very because it is very real, and
Speaker 8: I think, like obviously everybody's going to have their own
Speaker 8: take on that and their own experiences. And like I said,
Speaker 8: my my own partner is extremely supportive of what I
Speaker 8: do and interested and wants to hear about it. But
Speaker 8: like he has such a I don't want to call
Speaker 8: it a black and white worldview because that's not fair,
Speaker 8: but it is such a pragmatic worldview that what interests
Speaker 8: him is data. He's like a big data science guy,
Speaker 8: and that's mysticism to him is like data and facts
Speaker 8: and numbers. Stuff that flies over my head, right, Like
Speaker 8: I don't understand name that. Yeah, that he's magic.
Speaker 1: Johnny says that numbers are God's language, so exactly.
Speaker 8: Exactly, So, you know, my partner and we meet in
Speaker 8: the middle because he is, whether he wants to admit
Speaker 8: it or not, a very mystical person. He's just coming
Speaker 8: at it from this this different angle. But all of
Speaker 8: this to say the question of like, is magic real?
Speaker 8: I mean it's very real to me. And I've seen
Speaker 8: things happen because of magic and as a result of
Speaker 8: magic that I really can't explain otherwise. And I think,
Speaker 8: but I think that some people who engage in the
Speaker 8: occult or dabble I hate to use that word because
Speaker 8: it feels a bit dismissed, but like dabble in witchcraft
Speaker 8: or debt. You know people who see rituals on the
Speaker 8: internet and they're like, oh, you know, I'll summon this
Speaker 8: solomonic demon. That sounds like a fun time. It's not
Speaker 8: a fun time I do it.
Speaker 4: It doesn't sound like a fun time to me. I mean,
Speaker 4: were you were scared getting into this?
Speaker 8: Yeah, I've been scared so much.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Oh thank you for being honest. By
Speaker 4: the way.
Speaker 8: Yeah, No, I think it's important to talk about I
Speaker 8: will say when I first got you know, involved with
Speaker 8: magic and witchcraft. I wasn't scared at all. But then
Speaker 8: early twenty twenty, after I had been doing this already
Speaker 8: for like a long time, I had my ass handed
Speaker 8: to me in a way that was terrifying to the
Speaker 8: point where like, after I came through that experience, I
Speaker 8: was like this close to throwing out all my shit,
Speaker 8: getting rid of all my books and being like that's
Speaker 8: it for me, because that got a little too real.
Speaker 1: I think that you're smarter now because I will say this,
Speaker 1: I'm a nurse as well, like a registered nurse, and
Speaker 1: the most scary thing we ever see as a nurse
Speaker 1: that thinks she knows everything right, and like you're you're
Speaker 1: a better nurse if you don't really know everything and
Speaker 1: you're willing to ask for help.
Speaker 7: So yeah, absolutely, you were like you were like having
Speaker 7: scary like like demons or ghosts or.
Speaker 8: I had an experience with a spirit and I had
Speaker 8: been you know, I don't know, I don't know if
Speaker 8: it's close to what JJ has has been through, but
Speaker 8: I was having some experiences that there was just a
Speaker 8: little bit too many bad things clustering in a short
Speaker 8: space of time, and you know, I'm again very much
Speaker 8: a skeptic. I'm like, Okay, bad things happen. You know,
Speaker 8: sometimes you're just gonna have bad day. Your car is
Speaker 8: going to break down, a family member is going to
Speaker 8: get hurt, like it just happens's life. But if too
Speaker 8: many of those things cluster in a small space of
Speaker 8: time for me with my worldview, I'm like, hmm, okay.
Speaker 8: And so I had done what I usually do in
Speaker 8: those situations, which was I had, you know, done a
Speaker 8: ritual to just kind of cleanse myself in my space
Speaker 8: and get rid of any ick that was floating around.
Speaker 8: And when I did that, the candle I was burning
Speaker 8: went completely black. It was you know, a glass jar
Speaker 8: candle and in candle magic candle divination. If you're burning
Speaker 8: something and it goes all the way down black soot,
Speaker 8: that is not a good sign. And halfway through it
Speaker 8: burning down, the candle exploded and then nearly burned down
Speaker 8: the room that I was burning it in. So at
Speaker 8: that point I was like, something's up. That's not good.
Speaker 8: And I talked to a couple of friends of mine
Speaker 8: and some mentors about what could be going on, and yeah,
Speaker 8: let's go rounds with Robert will live stream it.
Speaker 7: Please please live stream it.
Speaker 4: Oh, I want to be a part of it. I
Speaker 4: want it out too. I probably a part of it.
Speaker 6: I don't want to anywhere near that.
Speaker 8: Damn, a ghost just turned off my entire ass computer
Speaker 8: set up. I probably shouldn't be so ballsy, like, yeah,
Speaker 8: let's go, let's take down Robert. But anyway, what happened
Speaker 8: was at that point I asked friends for their thoughts.
Speaker 8: This is something that I will say if anyone is
Speaker 8: a practitioner or they want to be a practitioner, get
Speaker 8: yourself a tight group of occultist friends that you trust,
Speaker 8: who you can turn to if you're having an experience,
Speaker 8: whether it's a dream or weird stuff happening in your life,
Speaker 8: or you think you're seeing a spirit. It's so important
Speaker 8: to be discerning because sometimes it's just you and you're tired,
Speaker 8: and you're paranoid and your head's all fucked up. So
Speaker 8: get people you trust that you can talk to, who
Speaker 8: can check for you, and just be a little bit
Speaker 8: of a grounding influence. But very sadly, in this instance,
Speaker 8: my friend was kind of looking into it for me
Speaker 8: and he said, oh no, there's definitely summons up there's
Speaker 8: something around you or in your house or you know,
Speaker 8: you got to get rid of it. So he gave
Speaker 8: me his recommendation of what kind of ritual I should
Speaker 8: do to really deal with this thing. And basically it
Speaker 8: was a it's called a spirit trap ritual. We kind
Speaker 8: of my friend's a conjure man, so it was kind
Speaker 8: of in this folk conjure pop gaetia part other. We
Speaker 8: weren't so many any demons to do it, but it
Speaker 8: was sort of a solomonic folk magic ritual to get
Speaker 8: deal with the spirit.
Speaker 2: To say, well, is in solomonic magic you are trying
Speaker 2: to trap a demon into a specific.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you're trying to bind bind the spirit. And so
Speaker 8: we used this right or I use this right to
Speaker 8: do it that he told me all the steps to do.
Speaker 8: I got everything ready and the ritual involved. You know,
Speaker 8: it used planetary hours. If anyone watching or I'm sure
Speaker 8: somebody y'all on the call have done it. But if
Speaker 8: you're using like planetary magic, it's very specific timing wise,
Speaker 8: You've got to be up at a certain time down
Speaker 8: to the minute to call on certain energies and certain spirits.
Speaker 8: So anyway I prep everything, I get it all organized.
Speaker 8: This was quite a few years ago. I told my
Speaker 8: boyfriend at the time, like, don't worry about me tomorrow.
Speaker 8: Just ignore me. I'm going to be doing some stuff.
Speaker 8: Just live your life. If I'm chanting in a room,
Speaker 8: don't worry about it. And the morning that I was
Speaker 8: due to do this, I think I had to start
Speaker 8: at five am. I woke up in the worst pain
Speaker 8: of my life and I had like eleven out of
Speaker 8: ten GI pain. I was like, not, I'm going to
Speaker 8: be an elegant. I was shitting my brains out.
Speaker 7: I was showing like stoic knew it.
Speaker 8: And I I was oscillating between like the bathtub and
Speaker 8: the toilet and then trying to get like because I
Speaker 8: had to do shit on the hour every hour for
Speaker 8: this ritual. And I remember messaging with my friend and
Speaker 8: being like, I think I'm dying, Like I am in
Speaker 8: so much pain. Can I can't stop shitting like what
Speaker 8: I had finish this ritual? And he was like, well, yeah,
Speaker 8: the spirit doesn't want to go and it's pissed at you.
Speaker 8: And I was like, fantastic, Well, I might have to
Speaker 8: go to a hospital, Like what do you recommend I
Speaker 8: do here? And he was like, you just got to
Speaker 8: get it done. You just got you cannot stop doing
Speaker 8: it now. My partner was like, witness My then partner
Speaker 8: was witnessing this all and being like, you look like shit.
Speaker 8: Like I was running a fever. I couldn't walk. My
Speaker 8: partner at the time was like, you have to go
Speaker 8: to a hospital, and I was like, no, I have
Speaker 8: to finish chanting to Saturn.
Speaker 1: You say, you know, if I don't finish this, we're
Speaker 1: gonna have locknest monster in the bathtub.
Speaker 5: Listen, We're gonna have.
Speaker 8: Worse problems than me shitting my pants if you don't
Speaker 8: go back to bed and shut up.
Speaker 7: And shooting your pants is definitely a fucking problem.
Speaker 4: It's a problem. I'm in there, yeah, crying out the
Speaker 4: ass like that.
Speaker 5: It's not it's not, no.
Speaker 2: Serious, I know it happens.
Speaker 8: I do not recommend the colonoscopy by spirit It's like
Speaker 8: not as.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 4: It was spiritual.
Speaker 5: But I'm done, right, So I finished colonoscopy.
Speaker 8: Go to colonoscopy will be the title of autobiography. My god. So,
Speaker 8: but I did it. I finished it. It got done.
Speaker 8: I think it took it was about a twelve hour process,
Speaker 8: like on the hour, every hour. I somehow managed to
Speaker 8: like force myself through it. And at the end of
Speaker 8: that process, like literally the moment I finished that last
Speaker 8: chant and I sealed this jar and it was all
Speaker 8: done fine physically fine wow, And I put it out
Speaker 8: in the garden, which was you know. I was like,
Speaker 8: what do I do with this fucking jar at this point,
Speaker 8: And my friend was like, Okay, well, you're going to
Speaker 8: want to put it obviously away from your house. And
Speaker 8: I said, but how am I going to know if
Speaker 8: it worked? I mean, should have been obvious at the
Speaker 8: point in time that I was no longer extremely unwell
Speaker 8: that it had worked. But I was like, how do
Speaker 8: I know? How do I know what's in here? I
Speaker 8: don't know? And my friend said, you're just you're just
Speaker 8: gonna know. You're just going to know. So you hear
Speaker 8: this a lot from other people in the occult when
Speaker 8: your first like really learning serious magic. Oh, you're just
Speaker 8: gonna know. It's such an annoying thing to hear. It's like,
Speaker 8: what do you mean, I'm just gonna know? Ock you Anyway,
Speaker 8: I put it in my front yard, where at the
Speaker 8: time I had this gigantic catinet bush that was just
Speaker 8: growing all over the yard. I mean, catnip is a mint,
Speaker 8: it takes over everything, grows like a weed, and this
Speaker 8: plant was very robust. And three days later the entire
Speaker 8: plant had died. The whole thing was dead. And I
Speaker 8: was like, well, wow, that worked, I guess, but it
Speaker 8: was terrifying. It was a terrifying experience, and not because
Speaker 8: anything spooky supernatural was happening, like things weren't appearing to
Speaker 8: me or like being spooky, but the toll that it
Speaker 8: had taken on my physical body, which you know, if
Speaker 8: you're a science minded person, you can say, well, that's
Speaker 8: probably just totally totally coincidence, like bitch, you write too
Speaker 8: much taco bell, Like that's what's going on there, right,
Speaker 8: like not like uh. And it was horrifying, horrifying, and
Speaker 8: I very nearly because apparently this spirit had no way
Speaker 8: ill intent. It wasn't trying to fuck me up. Apparently
Speaker 8: this was literally just a spirit that was ambiently around
Speaker 8: and that had noticed me and was like, oh, there's
Speaker 8: a witch. I'll just say hi, you know, and I'll
Speaker 8: just say hi in a way that starts ruining her life,
Speaker 8: because that's a good way to get attention.
Speaker 5: Oh and the energy.
Speaker 1: I mean, even if they don't mean to, they're gonna
Speaker 1: suck some suck some blood, right if we want to
Speaker 1: go vampiric.
Speaker 8: Yep. And that's why that was my very hard one
Speaker 8: lesson of here's how we have good spiritual boundaries and
Speaker 8: good spiritual cleanliness. But yeah, I very nearly threw in
Speaker 8: the towel at that point.
Speaker 7: So you live in New Orleans obviously, Okay, Yeah, I
Speaker 7: mean I feel like I've been there a few times.
Speaker 4: I just feel like it's a haunted place to live.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, to be honest with you, I mean.
Speaker 7: You're saying like something could have happened in that place
Speaker 7: before you moved in or something like that. A lot
Speaker 7: of the places, like even driving by them be like gosh,
Speaker 7: this just gives me the he begbis like it's a
Speaker 7: haunted kind of creepy dark place.
Speaker 8: There's there's a lot of energy here, I think. I
Speaker 8: mean the place that I live in. I'm not down
Speaker 8: like in the French Quarter or anything. Because your girl
Speaker 8: does not make that kind of psychic money. I'm not
Speaker 8: agree yet, So I'm not you know, like I'm not
Speaker 8: raking it in but you know, I live in a
Speaker 8: house on the outskirts of Orleans Paris, so I'm still
Speaker 8: technically in New Orleans, but it's more the suburbs. My
Speaker 8: house was built in like nineteen sixty three, I think
Speaker 8: nineteen nineteen fifty nineteen fifty three, so it's not like
Speaker 8: old old history, haunty. But yeah, New Orleans is just
Speaker 8: a place with a lot of energy, spirits and also
Speaker 8: just like I.
Speaker 7: Mean Hurricane to Trina stuff about to say the like,
Speaker 7: I mean, yeah, even if you don't live right in
Speaker 7: the quarter, I just I feel like with all that
Speaker 7: energy that even came through with that is kind of wild,
Speaker 7: but patty and angry. It's funny you mentioned her. I
Speaker 7: don't know if anybody else knows who that is, but
Speaker 7: that's the one they always get on ghost adventures.
Speaker 4: Do you know who I'm talking about?
Speaker 7: It's this It's the one lady they're always consulting on
Speaker 7: ghost adventures when they call in a hychic. That's that's
Speaker 7: who she's talking about.
Speaker 8: And I don't know that she's extremely wealthy. I just
Speaker 8: assume that she is.
Speaker 4: She is too, Yeah, they're always.
Speaker 7: Calling her in, and I almost don't feel like she's
Speaker 7: very good on the episodes. It's like she walks in
Speaker 7: there and she just says some real vague generalities, and
Speaker 7: it's like, why didn't she freaking hire me to do that.
Speaker 4: I go in there and tell you more than she did, not.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure.
Speaker 8: No, I mean, I think celebrity celebrity psychics and celebrity
Speaker 8: occultists are their whole own thing.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 8: And I mean, God, I don't want my mouth to
Speaker 8: get me into trouble this evening, so let's not it's not.
Speaker 8: But yeah, I mean that's the other thing I think.
Speaker 8: Any It's not that they aren't legit people who become
Speaker 8: public figures and do things, but I think the nature
Speaker 8: of media also is that the legit stuff doesn't really sell.
Speaker 1: Like I know, you know, yeah, there's magicians that have
Speaker 1: rabbits and hats, and then there's magicians.
Speaker 5: Yeah and they both yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7: Somebody said something about glittering generalities one of my favorite
Speaker 7: logical fallacies. Well, it's like they get in there and
Speaker 7: she's like, oh my next burning you know, she'll like
Speaker 7: scratch it real quick, Oh look at this scratch on
Speaker 7: my neck.
Speaker 5: Come on, Patty, did you have a mother. Did you
Speaker 5: have a mother?
Speaker 9: I think you had a mother.
Speaker 8: Somebody in your family was a smoker. It's like, yeah, okay.
Speaker 4: Yeah, all of them masks narrow it down something like that.
Speaker 7: Yes, I feel like someone you know, mother, father, grandmother,
Speaker 7: may bee Caucasianian.
Speaker 4: How would you guess? I'm not obviously Celesti. I'm not
Speaker 4: making fun of me.
Speaker 8: No, No, I don't feel that way at all. I
Speaker 8: just see similar similar feelings.
Speaker 7: Yes, I have a friend. Actually, her name's Whitney. You
Speaker 7: guys may know her, Whitney Fox.
Speaker 4: Uh, she's the she's the real deal. She's a really
Speaker 4: cool lady.
Speaker 7: And uh yeah, I just I feel like people who
Speaker 7: actually have a talent for it, they're not They're not
Speaker 7: on Ghost Adventures, they're not you know.
Speaker 8: So no, I agree. I mean, I think it's also
Speaker 8: possible that some of these people who become like big
Speaker 8: media figures, not to single out Patty, but folks in
Speaker 8: that in that wheelhouse. I think sometimes, you know, maybe
Speaker 8: there is a legitimate skill and a talent and a
Speaker 8: gift there, but once you have to do it once
Speaker 8: a week on television with with fucking I don't even
Speaker 8: know who who is on ghost Adventures at Zach Bag
Speaker 8: and whoever? It is like, you know, some like backwards
Speaker 8: baseball cap looking ass go toe guy being like the
Speaker 8: Ghost House you know, did you hear that?
Speaker 5: Did you hear that?
Speaker 8: Yeah? It must. It probably creates a need to just
Speaker 8: like play the role and not worry about really like
Speaker 8: tapping in on a deeper level.
Speaker 7: Well, I'll say one, there's one show that is like
Speaker 7: that that I will say to this day. I'm a
Speaker 7: huge fan and I love it so much, and I'll
Speaker 7: follow this girl on Instagram? Is that the Dead Files girl?
Speaker 2: Before I Sai, I said, you got to bring Amy
Speaker 2: Allen instead you did mention her.
Speaker 4: Dude, she got she gets me every time.
Speaker 2: You're worth it in my opinion.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no, that's one.
Speaker 7: And I feel like they're the guy that she works
Speaker 7: with on The Dead Files. Nick, weren't you going to
Speaker 7: talk to him or something or trying to past?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was trying to because he was he was retired,
Speaker 2: I think, a detective in New York. But I never
Speaker 2: never got a response.
Speaker 7: Well he I can only imagine you two talking to
Speaker 7: each other with your big New York accents. But yeah, no,
Speaker 7: she's she fascinates me. But you so do use Celeste.
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 7: I kind of would like to have you on my
Speaker 7: show and ask you all kinds of which craft three questions.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, I'm down. I'm down. I haven't done a
Speaker 8: podcast in forever. And then I feel like in this
Speaker 8: last week, everybody's like, do you want to be on
Speaker 8: a podcast?
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, it's funny. Is another podcaster that I'm
Speaker 2: friends with literally hit me up, like, you know, I've
Speaker 2: been trying to get her on for a while.
Speaker 8: Oh I think I know, because I kind of went
Speaker 8: like self mode for the past, like gear, and I
Speaker 8: really wasn't I wasn't even really updating my Instagram. It
Speaker 8: was just like mostly strictly business stuff, not putting out
Speaker 8: a bunch of other content. I was really burned out
Speaker 8: from just the content mill and the constant demands of
Speaker 8: the Internet. And then I went and decided to make
Speaker 8: a stupid TikTok and here we.
Speaker 1: Are now TikTok every time.
Speaker 2: That's well, the good timing Jen has a question, Yeah,
Speaker 2: go for it, Jen.
Speaker 12: Okay, So thank you very much, Hidi and Nick.
Speaker 11: So I have one comment, one question, and obviously I
Speaker 11: said I would deticase, Heidi in the chat.
Speaker 12: So I will do that.
Speaker 11: So Celest you were talking about how your partner is
Speaker 11: very analytical, so of course Nick knows I love Kabala.
Speaker 11: So I'll just bring up a little This is kind
Speaker 11: of a boy magic what you're talking about. It's very hard,
Speaker 11: it's very you know, it's very hermetic, like you're very
Speaker 11: like in the clear blue lightning.
Speaker 12: You could say.
Speaker 11: So that's that is like you're saying, he is kind
Speaker 11: of a mystic.
Speaker 12: Yeah he is.
Speaker 11: He's tuned into the numbers, but it's just boy magic
Speaker 11: because that's how he looks at it.
Speaker 12: Hard data. Women are more they are less dense.
Speaker 11: I've said this many times on the show, but they
Speaker 11: have a they're less dense than men. So they you
Speaker 11: guys need a little more finesse, a little more care.
Speaker 11: That's why the rituals, that's why the all the spiritual technologies.
Speaker 12: Men just kind of like need the know how and
Speaker 12: then we can kind of get there.
Speaker 11: Women kind of have to prepare themselves, but they can
Speaker 11: get there too. It's just it's all obviously I think
Speaker 11: of it as all like just consciousness, so you can
Speaker 11: get there if you want.
Speaker 12: It's just how you prepare yourself.
Speaker 11: But I thought that was really interesting because I think
Speaker 11: you're tapped into like he is a mystic, and I
Speaker 11: know a lot of people like this. They would not
Speaker 11: consider themselves occultists or mystics, but they have like a
Speaker 11: very keen analytical eye and analytical knowledge.
Speaker 12: Like Lisa is very much like this.
Speaker 11: I don't think she's like that dude at all, but
Speaker 11: she just it's a very if you have like a
Speaker 11: science that kind of brain, I think you're you are
Speaker 11: able to do it if you are open minded. And
Speaker 11: then my question was did Vampire the Masquerade the White
Speaker 11: Wolf game?
Speaker 12: Was that like really old fashioned by the time you
Speaker 12: were kind of in the.
Speaker 11: Scene or what did did you see it play kind
Speaker 11: of a role in how people you know, like the
Speaker 11: vampire balls and all of that, Like, yeah, familiar with
Speaker 11: that a little bit?
Speaker 8: Yeah, No, I think, I mean, I think you know,
Speaker 8: White Wolf games, whether it's tabletop or LARPing, are gonna
Speaker 8: that's a that's eternally popular, you know. I mean, I'm
Speaker 8: in a I'm in a VTM game right now. We
Speaker 8: haven't met for ages. We meet on zoom, but I
Speaker 8: am a big fan of White Wolf. I love role playing,
Speaker 8: mostly tabletop. I'm not big on LARPing. Surprisingly, I don't
Speaker 8: like people in real life, you know, to keep me
Speaker 8: away from them. But yeah, no, I think that the
Speaker 8: White Wolf universe definitely did seep into elements of the
Speaker 8: group that I was in. The biggest thing that I
Speaker 8: can think of. I'm glad you asked this question, actually,
Speaker 8: But the biggest way that I think it impacted some
Speaker 8: of the terminology from White Wolf games was creeping in
Speaker 8: to the way that the Vampire moderators interacted with us.
Speaker 8: And the biggest way that that happened was the idea
Speaker 8: of gules. If anyone's played like VTM or a White
Speaker 8: Wolf game, the ghule is a physically human, well a
Speaker 8: mostly physically human character that is the servant or the
Speaker 8: you know, thrall of a vampire character. So in the
Speaker 8: role playing game Vampire the Musquerade, your vampire character can
Speaker 8: give a human being a certain amount of blood and
Speaker 8: that character becomes kind of like your little mortal slave
Speaker 8: and you can go send them to do errands for
Speaker 8: you and do stuff during the day, pick up your
Speaker 8: dampile laundry, whatever does you need them to do. In
Speaker 8: the cult that I was in that idea started to
Speaker 8: really permeate. So the truly unhinged Kucku Banana is. Stuff
Speaker 8: that went on toward the end is that a bunch
Speaker 8: of us were told that we actually had vampire blood.
Speaker 8: We didn't remember getting the vampire blood because it was
Speaker 8: all happening while we were sleeping. But you know, the
Speaker 8: the vampires who ran this cult were supposedly coming to
Speaker 8: some of us in the night and giving us their blood,
Speaker 8: and we were becoming ghouls. So in the world of
Speaker 8: the cult, I was a ghoul and had vampire blood
Speaker 8: and was told that that's why I was so sick.
Speaker 8: It turns out that I have a chronic illness, that's
Speaker 8: why I'm so sick, but I was told it was
Speaker 8: vampire blood. So there you go.
Speaker 11: Well that's really interesting so us because Nicholas to Beer,
Speaker 11: I'm not sure if you're familiar with him, but yeah,
Speaker 11: like the I think is the thing is the Temple
Speaker 11: of Blood in the Order of the Dragon, and like
Speaker 11: everyone knows, he's like really sick though, and like that
Speaker 11: whole group is quite weird and very extreme.
Speaker 12: But they they.
Speaker 11: Talk about like these very ideas that you're talking about,
Speaker 11: Like they think they are actually like immortal vampires, and.
Speaker 12: They do feed people their blood unwittingly.
Speaker 11: So I just think that that's very fascinating that they're
Speaker 11: borrowing this kind of very extreme you know, Luciferian ish.
Speaker 11: I'm not sure on their whole ideology, but yeah, very
Speaker 11: interesting blood. Yeah, they give people their own blood unwittingly
Speaker 11: in food and drinks, and they say it's to improve though,
Speaker 11: because they think they're like pure bloodline. Like that's Nicholas
Speaker 11: Severer's like whole thing. He thinks he's like the Gray Arian.
Speaker 11: I don't know, he thinks he's like good Like he
Speaker 11: just thinks he's like pure descendant of whatever.
Speaker 2: And so it's.
Speaker 3: Interesting because I've seen that in the plotline of a
Speaker 3: film recently called The Golden Child.
Speaker 4: Were you like Eddie Murphy.
Speaker 6: Review of that on.
Speaker 2: It like the Oatmeal or whatever?
Speaker 8: That was?
Speaker 4: Love that show. It's in the oat meal. It's in
Speaker 4: the oatmeal.
Speaker 7: Hey, but I was going to see it reminds me
Speaker 7: of of mid Midnight Mass as well.
Speaker 5: That was from the Great Brotherhood of the North.
Speaker 1: This is all very ancient, uh magic, So all of that,
Speaker 1: all of these things, yeah, but all that one.
Speaker 6: You can go join us, Julia, for.
Speaker 4: Sure, send me the link. I love The Golden Child.
Speaker 4: I made Colby watch it the other day.
Speaker 2: Just watched it too. That's that's good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I recently just watched it.
Speaker 7: I think the funniest part is when they go to
Speaker 7: like the uh to talk to the dragon Lady and he's.
Speaker 4: Like this is good to keep the up, and he's like,
Speaker 4: nothing wrong with my yang.
Speaker 7: Anyways, Anyways, I did I did want to say I
Speaker 7: played Magic the Gathering when I was a youngster and.
Speaker 8: The Great Game?
Speaker 4: Do you like that one?
Speaker 8: I'm not good at it because I can't math, but people,
Speaker 8: you know.
Speaker 4: I was going to say, though, you know, I started
Speaker 4: playing it when.
Speaker 7: I was around like sixteen or seventeen or something like that,
Speaker 7: and I used to go to like the conventions or
Speaker 7: whatever and play against other the tournaments and stuff. If
Speaker 7: somebody would have started a Magic the Gathering cult when
Speaker 7: I was at eight, I would have joined it.
Speaker 6: I mean, I think that's.
Speaker 8: Like I want to join a cult.
Speaker 7: I would do it just because, okay, because I was
Speaker 7: young and impressionable, and also I'm working on a cult
Speaker 7: series right now. It's called Into the CULTI Verse, and
Speaker 7: I want to join a cult, what it's all about.
Speaker 7: And then I'm going to report back the facts.
Speaker 2: And I don't.
Speaker 6: Recommend that they don't like you when you do that.
Speaker 2: It's pretty much like what I like that.
Speaker 7: Nobody will have me anyways, JJ. Unless you start a COLT,
Speaker 7: maybe you'll have me.
Speaker 5: You'll get a roper money.
Speaker 6: The mormers will take you.
Speaker 4: I don't want to pay.
Speaker 2: You got to go down to Brazil and go to
Speaker 2: the what's that one that we keep talking about, JJ,
Speaker 2: that we got to cover one day?
Speaker 6: Yeah, and the eye is saturd It was called.
Speaker 2: Is some wild one? Yeah, yeah, some ship like that, Joey.
Speaker 3: You can sign a billion year contract with Scientology if
Speaker 3: you want to do a COLT.
Speaker 6: It's only a billion years. I think that's going to
Speaker 6: only a billionaires.
Speaker 4: I mean it's going to be a noe for me.
Speaker 8: Dog.
Speaker 7: But the thing is, I would like to join like
Speaker 7: a cult temporarily, like.
Speaker 6: A friend of your cold than that, like just to
Speaker 6: go to a couple.
Speaker 7: Of crock pot lunches and then just you know, take
Speaker 7: some notes down and just you know, investigated INVESTI guys
Speaker 7: a little bit and then just be out. But anyways,
Speaker 7: I think if you have enough passion behind something, and
Speaker 7: you're involved with something enough, it would be easy to
Speaker 7: become involved in like a club or a group where
Speaker 7: what eventually ends up becoming a cult.
Speaker 4: Because I mean.
Speaker 7: I was stealing Magic the Gathering cards from Walmart and
Speaker 7: just like stuffing my bra with them and shoving them
Speaker 7: down my pants.
Speaker 4: I was obsessed with it.
Speaker 7: I was indeed, man, that is magic.
Speaker 11: Magic the Gathering is definitely there's definitely stick. Oh I think, yeah.
Speaker 7: I mean, yeah, I agree, jin, I think it gets
Speaker 7: a hold of your mind for sure, because I became
Speaker 7: completely obsessed with it.
Speaker 4: I had the video game.
Speaker 7: I met people in real life and played it. I
Speaker 7: mean I did, I did all of it. I mean,
Speaker 7: but the thing I grew out of it. But I
Speaker 7: I feel like some of this stuff, like they set
Speaker 7: up these forums and stuff because a lot of people
Speaker 7: don't grow out of this. They they don't capture asking questions.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, it's to capture your attention.
Speaker 11: Like for me, I was like, I'm more like identified
Speaker 11: with some of what Celeste was saying, because like I am,
Speaker 11: I'm goth a little bit like not full. But yeah,
Speaker 11: I was always adjacent to that subculture or whatever.
Speaker 12: I like magic.
Speaker 11: I was never into vampires, but I do like magic
Speaker 11: because I was always interested in i't caull things. So
Speaker 11: it's always to draw your attention, like who, like, what
Speaker 11: consciousness are you going to capture with what story?
Speaker 12: So I've read all the Anne Reichs books. I didn't
Speaker 12: mind them, but it wasn't it's not going to be
Speaker 12: something that I'm It wasn't the capture the thing that
Speaker 12: captured me. So you were captured by magic the gathering.
Speaker 12: Heidi was obviously born a Mormon, JJ obviously became a Mormon.
Speaker 12: Nick was captured by the Oto. I'm not saying in
Speaker 12: a negative way.
Speaker 11: Just we all everyone here kind of proved is that
Speaker 11: the real American religion is actually a little weird, a
Speaker 11: little magin role and like a lot of like what
Speaker 11: you think individualistic in a way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that's very well said. Yeah,
Speaker 4: very well said. Definitely.
Speaker 2: Yeah. A lot of aliens that is interesting that does
Speaker 2: show up on it.
Speaker 8: It's aliens all the way down at the end of
Speaker 8: the day.
Speaker 5: It's aliens and women.
Speaker 8: It's ultra terrestrial women all the way down there.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Uh go, probably about another like ten minutes if anybody
Speaker 2: else has any more questions. I know I meant typed
Speaker 2: in the chat. I wanted to wrap it up, like
Speaker 2: not yet.
Speaker 8: I know everyone went quiet.
Speaker 2: I know, yeah, because they're probably like.
Speaker 4: I'm long winded.
Speaker 7: I didn't want to get started on something I couldn't stop.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, Jenny, you got another.
Speaker 12: Question, Yeah, i'llsoleus.
Speaker 11: The question is what are some of your most Obviously
Speaker 11: you don't want to I understand if you don't want
Speaker 11: to get into personal details of like your clients, But
Speaker 11: what are some of the more interesting cases that you
Speaker 11: would be willing to like share that you've done magically
Speaker 11: or for people?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 8: Yeah, so I think, like you know, my clients, I
Speaker 8: get a lot of repeat clients, which I think is
Speaker 8: not always common in this industry. But I do have
Speaker 8: a really wonderful client base of people who kind of
Speaker 8: keep coming back either and not you know, not like
Speaker 8: keep coming back like every week they're blowing me up,
Speaker 8: but you know, keep coming back for inside or readings.
Speaker 8: Readings was a big bread and butter of my work
Speaker 8: for a long long time, and that's really all I did,
Speaker 8: and I've only branched out into doing sort of bespoke
Speaker 8: spell work bespoke ritual for people over the past three issuars.
Speaker 8: I didn't think that it was going to be as
Speaker 8: popular as it has been, but out that a lot
Speaker 8: of people have a lot of magic that they want
Speaker 8: to do that they either don't know how to do
Speaker 8: or they're too lazy to do themselves. So that is
Speaker 8: that is not my job. As far as the most interesting,
Speaker 8: I get a lot of the kind of standard stuff
Speaker 8: that you would imagine a lot of like my ex
Speaker 8: left and I want him back. I get a lot
Speaker 8: of you know, I want a promotion at my job,
Speaker 8: or I need a new job, and I don't know
Speaker 8: how to do that. But then I do get some
Speaker 8: sort of more unhinged requests. I guess I met a
Speaker 8: couple of people who needed it. Yeah, well, not that
Speaker 8: many homicidal people, and I have a system for dealing
Speaker 8: with that. But I do have people who want to,
Speaker 8: you know, either protect themselves from somebody or they need
Speaker 8: to exact some form of vengeance, shall we say. And
Speaker 8: one such case, which I will talk about without naming names,
Speaker 8: but I had a client and a friend a couple
Speaker 8: of year years ago who had been slighted by an
Speaker 8: individual and was upset about it, and so her whole
Speaker 8: thing was, you know, she was very upset, very distraught,
Speaker 8: and she said, I want this person to be punished.
Speaker 8: And I said, okay, well what kind of punishment are
Speaker 8: we talking about here, Like, let's have a conversation. And
Speaker 8: I always make sure that I do a divination first,
Speaker 8: because sometimes it's just not a good idea to go
Speaker 8: getting yourself involved in a situation like that. But she
Speaker 8: wanted him. He was he was a I kind of
Speaker 8: if he was like a YouTuber or like a twitch
Speaker 8: streamer or something like that, but he was like a
Speaker 8: mildly famous in his like little niche kind of guy.
Speaker 8: And she said, I really want him to lose this
Speaker 8: celebrity boxing match that he's about to be a part of.
Speaker 8: There was some sort of YouTube live streamed pay per
Speaker 8: view influencer boxing match going on, and she really wanted
Speaker 8: this guy to lose. And I thought, you know, well
Speaker 8: that's fairly innocent. I don't give it in about this guy.
Speaker 8: He seems like piece of shit, like, yeah, all right,
Speaker 8: let's just some magic for him to lose this boxing match.
Speaker 8: But then she kind of caveat it, and she said,
Speaker 8: but I also want him to get a little bit
Speaker 8: injured in the process. I was like, okay, so do
Speaker 8: the ritual, and I'll be honest with you, like my
Speaker 8: stuff usually does work. Sometimes it takes a little longer
Speaker 8: to work than I think it's going to, like timelines
Speaker 8: with magical weird. But I have a pretty good track
Speaker 8: record of my stuff working.
Speaker 13: But right right in the middle of the story, are
Speaker 13: we back, Yes, yes, okay, yeah, oh man, all.
Speaker 8: Right, either he was going to win this boxing match
Speaker 8: or he was not. You know, it was gonna it
Speaker 8: was gonna work, or it wasn't. And she was going
Speaker 8: to be watching live my client, and it was like,
Speaker 8: oh fuck if I if I screw the pooch on
Speaker 8: this one, it's going to be real bad for business.
Speaker 8: So anyway, I hear about it later and she was like,
Speaker 8: well he lost the match. I was like, oh, dope,
Speaker 8: that's awesome. Few she was like, yeah, and his bicep exploded,
Speaker 8: like the muscle, the muscle in his bicep. I guess,
Speaker 8: like I don't know, a tendon snapped or something, but
Speaker 8: he had like some crazy gnarly bicep injury. And so yeah,
Speaker 8: that that worked very successfully.
Speaker 7: That's will frozen again. I had a question to.
Speaker 9: Go, shoot, oh good, you froze again.
Speaker 4: So I wasn't sure if you're there.
Speaker 8: In and out, I don't know what's going on. I
Speaker 8: guess the spirit's like, that's enough of you, bitch, but
Speaker 8: go ahead, go ahead if you have a question.
Speaker 7: Well, I was just gonna say, do you ever get
Speaker 7: scared if like doing ritualism like this, like, does does
Speaker 7: anything negative come back on you or the person who
Speaker 7: requested it?
Speaker 8: In my experience, neither U and I think that because
Speaker 8: like so I'm not wicked, and only some schools of
Speaker 8: occultism really even believe in this idea of like, you know,
Speaker 8: rebound impact from a spell. You know, in the wick
Speaker 8: in religion, it's like, okay, anything you're going to put
Speaker 8: out there, you get back on you three times. And
Speaker 8: that's just not a tenet that everybody believes in. I
Speaker 8: do believe in energy moving around, and I while I
Speaker 8: don't really think that there's this sort of score sheet
Speaker 8: out there with some like supreme being being like, well,
Speaker 8: you did the bad things, so now you're going to
Speaker 8: get the bad thing. I don't think it's quite I mean,
Speaker 8: if it were like that, a lot of really bad
Speaker 8: people would be having really bad lives and they don't.
Speaker 8: So you know, proofs in the pudding there a lot.
Speaker 7: I have to agree with you on that because I've
Speaker 7: said several times you know, when you watch a movie,
Speaker 7: you always expect for the good guy to win in
Speaker 7: the end against evil, But in real life it's not
Speaker 7: like that. It's usually the bad guy wins in the end,
Speaker 7: and that's reality.
Speaker 4: And so if I hate.
Speaker 7: To say this, but it's like if if it was like,
Speaker 7: if you do something bad, something bad's going to happen
Speaker 7: to you, then I mean, all the satanic pedophiles that
Speaker 7: run our country would not be freaking billionaires live in
Speaker 7: you know, lavish lifestyles. So it's like the bad guy
Speaker 7: wins in the end. Sometimes I hate to say that,
Speaker 7: but that's what it seems like.
Speaker 8: Well, And it's also like if you guys, is in
Speaker 8: the show The Good Place where they try and like
Speaker 8: figure out what the moral like tally sheet would even
Speaker 8: look like and how you would calculate that. Like, I
Speaker 8: think I do believe that there is some kind of
Speaker 8: like I mean, I believe in God. I think that
Speaker 8: God is real, but I don't think that human morality
Speaker 8: and human action can be reduced to this sort of
Speaker 8: like easy checks and balances. Yes, no bad, good kind
Speaker 8: of thing. I do always do my own sort of
Speaker 8: soul searching and divination before I take a client on,
Speaker 8: before I decide, like am I going to do this work?
Speaker 8: But I to be honest, I will get energetic drained.
Speaker 8: I'll say that if I And that's regardless of the
Speaker 8: kind of work that I'm doing, whether it's like kind
Speaker 8: of texting and cursing, whether it's much more benevolent, like
Speaker 8: if I have a full three days of spell work,
Speaker 8: it will drain the funk out of me and I'll
Speaker 8: have to go to bed and sleep. But it doesn't
Speaker 8: I mean, touch Wood, you freaked me out. Now it's
Speaker 8: so far it hasn't like come and bit me in
Speaker 8: the ass yet I feel like the spirits are very
Speaker 8: present on this conversation and doing all sorts of things
Speaker 8: with the internet connections, so like, don't bite me in
Speaker 8: the ass, you know. But yeah, I know Robert's gonna
Speaker 8: come ert and now it's all remind me.
Speaker 7: Never to meet up with you and go bowling. I
Speaker 7: just don't want that energy in my life.
Speaker 6: Before worn don't don't ever take a picture of Robert
Speaker 6: the doll. He will curse you.
Speaker 4: I'm not going to do it. I'm never going to
Speaker 4: do it.
Speaker 8: I saw him, but I don't think. I don't think
Speaker 8: I took a picture. I think I was like, I'm
Speaker 8: gonna heed that morning, far.
Speaker 6: More wiser than I.
Speaker 7: I bet your I bet if you posted that picture,
Speaker 7: only got like ten likes on it too, and now
Speaker 7: you're cursed forever.
Speaker 3: I know, I don't really have any social media outside
Speaker 3: of my podcast, and this was probably twelve years ago.
Speaker 6: I'm not even sure what happened to the photo it was.
Speaker 4: You didn't even get a single like on it? JJ wow.
Speaker 3: And for what memory card? You know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 3: I'm not certainly ever left the actual memory card of
Speaker 3: the camera.
Speaker 8: That'sious. Robert takes his privacy.
Speaker 3: He's like, you don't have to print it, Apparently you
Speaker 3: just have to have it on, you know, on a
Speaker 3: memory card, apparently roding away in the back of a
Speaker 3: closet somewhere.
Speaker 4: I'm sure, hey, quick question. Something I heard that might
Speaker 4: be total bullshit.
Speaker 7: If you cut your hair on a full moon or
Speaker 7: something like, when are you you're only supposed to cut
Speaker 7: your hair on certain days?
Speaker 4: I have a hair coming up. This is per.
Speaker 11: Information waning Julia waning always on a waning.
Speaker 4: Is one coming up? Because I have a hair appointment.
Speaker 8: Right now. I think it's I think it is wedding currently.
Speaker 4: Actually, oh, thank god, I need a good haircut.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 7: There you go saying it's been years since I've gotten
Speaker 7: a good haircut, and I feel like it's always because
Speaker 7: I get it cut at the wrong time.
Speaker 4: Somebody told me this last time. I said, every time
Speaker 4: I go, I get a shitty.
Speaker 7: Fucking haircut, and they said it's because you're only supposed
Speaker 7: to cut your hair on the waning moon. I didn't
Speaker 7: couldn't remember which one it was, but I just you know,
Speaker 7: if there's anything to that, I think I want to
Speaker 7: do it next time.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's that's old.
Speaker 2: Astrology, definitely, let us know how that goes.
Speaker 11: Never on, you never cut your hair on a dark moon,
Speaker 11: and usually what you do is you collect the.
Speaker 12: Hair and then you burn it.
Speaker 11: If you want to be really old school, you collect
Speaker 11: the hair offt like after they sweep it up.
Speaker 12: You don't want them take it any burning yourself.
Speaker 7: See what happened was Nick cut his hair on a
Speaker 7: dark moon and now never grow back.
Speaker 2: So for the barber shave and yeah that's what's.
Speaker 8: Well on this dark Yeah, this was so great. Thanks
Speaker 8: for letting me.
Speaker 5: Questions.
Speaker 9: Yes, oh yeah.
Speaker 2: Before we wrap it up, I'll let everybody plug themselves again. Heidi,
Speaker 2: let everybody know what is up with your show? Please?
Speaker 1: I am Heidi love of the Unfiltered Ice. I'm everywhere
Speaker 1: podcast are served. I do have my own website, Unfiltered
Speaker 1: Ice podcast dot com. Come check me out. I'd love
Speaker 1: to see you and thank you everyone for the chat.
Speaker 1: Thank you Celest and JJ vance.
Speaker 3: JJ advanced us for operation GCD not not the vice
Speaker 3: president when it comes back on the screen. So that's
Speaker 3: great to meet you. It's a great conversation. I will
Speaker 3: have to get to next your contact information from Nick
Speaker 3: to talk Robert, the Doll Curse and whatnot. But thoroughly
Speaker 3: enjoyed the conversation and Jen, Heidi, Julie always great.
Speaker 6: Nick, appreciate the invite as always awesome.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, sir. And then we'll go with
Speaker 2: Cosmic Peach Julia, what is up?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm everywhere and nowhere. I'm a ghost of podcasting.
Speaker 7: But if you want to work with me the way
Speaker 7: you can do that is go to my Instagram page,
Speaker 7: Cosmic dot Peach dot podcast. I have my link tree there.
Speaker 7: Send me an email if you want to be on
Speaker 7: my show or have me on your show. That that's
Speaker 7: the best way to contact me. Thanks again, Nick for
Speaker 7: having me on Celestial Lovely. I enjoyed our conversation and
Speaker 7: I learned a lot.
Speaker 2: Thanks awesome, that's great. That's great. And Jin the Ninja.
Speaker 2: Please make sure you play yourselves since you were in
Speaker 2: here at the beginning.
Speaker 11: Thank you so much, Nick, thank you, Heidi, thank you, JJ,
Speaker 11: thank you, Julia and celest you were a great guest.
Speaker 11: I just will say thank you and awesome, great show
Speaker 11: as we've all done lately because I've obviously podcasted with
Speaker 11: all of you frequently in the last few months.
Speaker 12: So thank you. And I just did an episode with Heidi,
Speaker 12: and tomorrow I'm on with JJ and Nick and Julia
Speaker 12: and we're.
Speaker 11: Doing Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday Call, Yes, I remember Wednesday, and
Speaker 11: I won't be late.
Speaker 12: So I just dropped.
Speaker 11: I'll be early, I'll be early, And I just dropped
Speaker 11: a three part series on my show on Ralph Bakshi.
Speaker 12: So we did Fire and Ice, American Pop.
Speaker 11: And Wizards, so I did the Kabala, so I went, really,
Speaker 11: if you're into schizo Kabbala, looking at the colors, archetypes,
Speaker 11: talking about like maybe a little teama, a little you know,
Speaker 11: like obviously I got into Kenneth Grant because it's impossible
Speaker 11: to discuss those films without it. Yeah, so that just
Speaker 11: dropped on my feed. I have lots of episodes coming out.
Speaker 11: I just dropped the episode I did with JJ on
Speaker 11: Big Trouble in Little China, which is my personally.
Speaker 12: I think it was a great episode. So yeah, that
Speaker 12: just dropped on my feed. So you can check me out.
Speaker 11: Threshold Saints twitter at wu Kanri born in ig At.
Speaker 11: Threshold Saints and I were the Gray Lodge, so one
Speaker 11: of my spaces. We actually have a YouTube channel. Now
Speaker 11: I'm not running it. I have nothing to do with it,
Speaker 11: but one of the boys started us a YouTube channel
Speaker 11: so we can put our lives. We do these for
Speaker 11: the Friday night Gnastic Mass, so we have been doing
Speaker 11: speculative narcissism.
Speaker 12: So yeah, so if you're interested, check it out. Thanks guys, thank.
Speaker 2: You, and finally Celeste, yes, thank you very much.
Speaker 8: Yeah, let me get let me get this out quick.
Speaker 8: My camera keeps freezing the Internet over it. So yeah,
Speaker 8: you could find me. I have a website last Mott
Speaker 8: m o tt dot com. That's how you can book
Speaker 8: with me if you want to partake in my services.
Speaker 8: But I'm also on Instagram at Celeste Mott and TikTok
Speaker 8: at Celeste Moth with an h yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 8: By the way, I've like got away from myself there.
Speaker 8: Thanks for letting me be on. This was a blast.
Speaker 8: I had a really good time same listen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I have had a blast too. Uh. Thank
Speaker 2: you everybody who joined. I really had a good time tonight.
Speaker 2: And thank you everybody in the chat. That's what's up.
Speaker 2: There was a bunch of you in there, I guess
Speaker 2: from you know, old channels too. I really appreciate the
Speaker 2: comments and the you know, the questions and stuff and that.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, and until the next one, everybody else
Speaker 9: You will yea