1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,720 say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:14,519 and save hundreds because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, 4 00:00:14,839 --> 00:00:17,719 owning a home, and more. Plus you can count on 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,359 their great customer service to help when you need it, 6 00:00:20,559 --> 00:00:24,440 so your dollar goes a long way. Visit Progressive dot 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,160 com to see if you could save on car insurance, 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,960 Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary, 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,079 not available in all states or situations. 10 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,719 Speaker 2: Hand movies be cursed. We've talked about this with scary movies, 11 00:00:36,759 --> 00:00:40,119 but what about family movies. Over eighty five years after 12 00:00:40,119 --> 00:00:43,240 the original, some strange events are happening with the prequels 13 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,640 as well. Follow me down the rabbit Hole about the 14 00:00:45,640 --> 00:01:08,560 Wizard of Oz franchise. Hello, friends, and welcome back to 15 00:01:08,599 --> 00:01:10,879 the rabbit hole. Today we are talking about the Wizard 16 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,760 Laws franchise. We're going to explore the layers of Oz, 17 00:01:13,879 --> 00:01:16,400 from the nineteen thirty nine classic to the modern twenty 18 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,159 twenty four twenty twenty five wicked phenomenon that has literally 19 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,480 taken the world by storm. Thank you Abby and Paige 20 00:01:23,519 --> 00:01:26,280 for requesting this episode, and of course before we get started, 21 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,560 I love to think our sponsors, So thank you wisewof 22 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,920 Gold for sponsoring my podcast. Guys, if you want gold 23 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,439 and silver delivered straight to your front door for as 24 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,599 little as fifty dollars a month, go to rabbit Hole 25 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,599 dot gold right now. That tells them that you're shopping 26 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:40,959 from my podcast, which helps to support us, so we 27 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,439 really appreciate that. Also, if you want really cool merch, 28 00:01:44,519 --> 00:01:48,480 we have a whole new line out right now, so 29 00:01:48,519 --> 00:01:51,200 you can go to Stay Skeptical dot com, which is 30 00:01:51,239 --> 00:01:53,200 my website. You can click on the shop tab and 31 00:01:53,239 --> 00:01:56,000 that will take you to the merch store. You can 32 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,840 get shirts, hoodies, there's a blanket for sale. There's all 33 00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:03,120 kinds of things over there, different designs, really cool things. 34 00:02:03,159 --> 00:02:06,239 You can rep the rabbit Hole everywhere you go. We 35 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,280 really appreciate all of your support everywhere you are. And 36 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,599 also we have Patreon. If you want these episodes a 37 00:02:12,599 --> 00:02:15,840 week early and ad free, go to Patreon dot com 38 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,319 right now. Today we are stepping behind the curtain of 39 00:02:19,319 --> 00:02:22,639 the cinematic masterpiece to uncover a history written in hospital 40 00:02:22,719 --> 00:02:25,280 records and freak accidents. You know, the songs and the 41 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,759 Ruby Slippers. But you might not know about the Oz Curse. 42 00:02:29,039 --> 00:02:32,159 It's a legend born from the brutal physical toll the 43 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,199 nineteen thirty nine production took on its stars, leaving us 44 00:02:35,199 --> 00:02:38,439 to wonder was the road to the Emerald City paved 45 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,479 with more than just yellow brick. Let's dive in. We 46 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,360 all know the Wizard of Oz. It was a Technicolor masterpiece. 47 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,240 While it wasn't the first movie to be produced in Technicolor, 48 00:02:49,439 --> 00:02:52,360 it was the most iconic and influential film to use 49 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,080 the three strip Technicolor process, especially because Technicolor was still 50 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,240 in its infancy at the time. But for the cast 51 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,000 and crew working on the MGM lot in nineteen thirty 52 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,639 eight and thirty nine, the experience was less of a 53 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,039 fairy tale and more of an endurance test. Let's get 54 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,919 into the Oz Curse and the brutal reality of early 55 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:16,639 Hollywood filmmaking. First of all, there were five different directors 56 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,479 this movie went through. The first director, Norman Taurog, was 57 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,199 essentially a technical director, used to get the gears turning 58 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,840 on this pre production casting in early Technicolor tests. However, 59 00:03:29,319 --> 00:03:32,919 once the studio saw his initial tests, they decided he 60 00:03:33,159 --> 00:03:35,800 wasn't the right fit for this whimsical tone that they 61 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,400 had imagined and reassigned him to the Adventures of Tom 62 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,719 Sawyer movie. The second director, Richard Thorpe, filmed for roughly 63 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,400 two weeks. He shot the now lost footage of Dorothy 64 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,000 and a Blonde Wig and the original ten Man, which 65 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:51,759 is a story in and of itself that we will 66 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,719 get into in just a little while. However, the producer, 67 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,159 Mervin Lee Roy, felt that Thorpe's footage lacked a fairytale 68 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,120 quality and was just way too grounded. Also, he accused 69 00:04:03,199 --> 00:04:05,879 him of rushing the actors, and Leroy was unhappy with 70 00:04:05,919 --> 00:04:08,639 the results that were produced under Thorpe, so Thorpe was 71 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,159 fired and all of his work was completely scrapped and 72 00:04:11,199 --> 00:04:15,120 they reached out all that George Kukor, the third director, 73 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,879 served as a creative consultant for only a few days 74 00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:23,120 during the production shutdown. Kukor never actually filmed a single frame. However, 75 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,360 he made the most significant creative decisions. He told Judy 76 00:04:27,439 --> 00:04:30,879 Garland to lose the blonde wig and act way more naturally, 77 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,360 and he redesigned the wicked witch as a traditional hag 78 00:04:34,639 --> 00:04:38,040 rather than this glamorous Villain. He left only because he 79 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,959 was already contractually obligated to begin directing Gone with the Wind. 80 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 3: Victor Fleming came in. 81 00:04:43,639 --> 00:04:46,319 Speaker 2: He was the fourth director, and he did the majority 82 00:04:46,439 --> 00:04:49,839 of this film. He is the only director credited. 83 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,399 Speaker 3: On screen in the credits. 84 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 2: Flemming was pulled from the film just days before completion 85 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,959 and replaced to save the movie Gone with the Wind 86 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,040 from its previous director, George Koko. Kucker had been fired 87 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,199 after clashing with Clark Gable and a producer on that film, 88 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,279 and Fleming was known in Hollywood as the time as 89 00:05:09,319 --> 00:05:11,800 this like fixer guy, so it just made sense that 90 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,000 he would need to go where he's more needed, which 91 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:16,959 was Gone with the Wind. And then they brought in 92 00:05:17,199 --> 00:05:20,360 King Viidor to finish the Wizard of Oz. Fighter stepped 93 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:25,079 in to film the remaining scenes, including the Sepia Toned 94 00:05:25,199 --> 00:05:29,240 Kansas sequences and the Over the Rainbow musical number. Fighter 95 00:05:29,319 --> 00:05:32,279 chose to remain uncredited out of respect for Fleming, who 96 00:05:32,319 --> 00:05:33,759 had done the bulk of the. 97 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:34,639 Speaker 3: Work for this film. 98 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,199 Speaker 2: He just really didn't want to take away from what 99 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:42,120 he felt was Flimming's crowning achievement. The director changes were 100 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,959 the least of the issues on set of this film. 101 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,920 The lighting was a primary source of misery for all 102 00:05:48,959 --> 00:05:52,600 who worked on it. Because the Technicolor three strip process 103 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,759 was filmed with extremely low light sensitivity, the sets had 104 00:05:56,759 --> 00:06:00,240 to be flooded with intense light to capture those vibrant colors. 105 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:06,319 Cinematographer Harold Rawson, whose insights were famously documented in the 106 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,920 book The Making of The Wizard of Oz, described the 107 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,879 sound stages as brutally hot. To achieve the necessary exposure, 108 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,600 every available carbon arc lamp in Hollywood was hauled into 109 00:06:18,639 --> 00:06:21,759 this studio. The heat from those lamps frequently raised the 110 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,319 set's temperature above one hundred degrees fahrenheit. 111 00:06:26,079 --> 00:06:27,399 Speaker 3: Actors who were weighed. 112 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 2: Down by heavy costumes and thick prosthetic makeup often collapsed 113 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,040 from heat exhaustion. When I found out this detail, I 114 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,120 immediately thought of the Lion, So then, of course I 115 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,519 did some digging into that to find out that the 116 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:46,160 cowardly Lion played by Bert Laar, wore a ninety pound 117 00:06:46,319 --> 00:06:50,560 costume suit made of genuine lion skin. It did not breathe, 118 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,600 and he was soaked in sweat within minutes of putting 119 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:58,959 it on. This suit, although very authentic, was also incredibly gross. 120 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,319 Not only was the suit made of actual lion skin 121 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,920 and fur, it was also mixed with human hair. The 122 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:12,040 source of the human hair is not known, so maybe 123 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,800 they got it in a regular, normal way, who knows. 124 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,279 And in addition to that, as if that wasn't bad enough, 125 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:25,360 because of the heat, Lar naturally would sweat profusely, soaking 126 00:07:25,399 --> 00:07:28,079 the suit, which would then result in this like really 127 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:32,240 disgusting body odor mix with lion leather, and the costume 128 00:07:32,279 --> 00:07:34,439 had to be dried over night with industrial equipment, and 129 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,560 that really just like set in this like stink of 130 00:07:37,639 --> 00:07:41,920 him just sweating disgusting amounts into this suit. So the 131 00:07:41,959 --> 00:07:45,560 smell just compounded on itself the entire time that they 132 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,160 were filming, and Lar had to eat and drink through 133 00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:51,879 a straw during all of the filming because of the 134 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,639 restrictive mass that sealed the costume to his skin, so 135 00:07:55,639 --> 00:07:58,759 he couldn't even eat and drink normally. So imagine that, 136 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,560 like the tempts are over one hundred degrees, you can't 137 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,959 eat and drink regularly, and you have this giant suit on. 138 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,319 Of course he's passing out from heatstroke. Not only was 139 00:08:09,519 --> 00:08:13,040 he a severe hazard. Apparently, there were also real fires 140 00:08:13,079 --> 00:08:16,680 on set. Margaret Hamilton, who played the Wicked Witch, suffered 141 00:08:16,759 --> 00:08:20,439 second and third degree burns during her fiery exit from 142 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,959 munchkin Land. Her hospital records and later refusal to work 143 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,079 with fireworks were proof of this fire and her PTSD 144 00:08:28,199 --> 00:08:32,000 resulting from it. The disappearing act really relied on this 145 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:37,000 hidden elevator beneath the floor and a simultaneous burst of pyrotechnics. 146 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:39,840 She was supposed to be lowered down while the flames 147 00:08:39,879 --> 00:08:43,120 went up, no harm, no foul. During the first take, 148 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:47,799 the stunt worked perfectly. However, director Fleming wanted a second 149 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,879 take just to be sure it was basically like a 150 00:08:49,919 --> 00:08:53,519 safety take. On this second attempt, the pyrotechnic flash was 151 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,120 triggered before Hamilton had fully descended into the trap door. 152 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,399 The fire instantly ignited Hamilton's broom and the gauze veil 153 00:09:01,639 --> 00:09:04,759 attached to her hat. Because her hand was still gripping 154 00:09:04,799 --> 00:09:07,080 the broom and her face was still above the floor line, 155 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,759 she bore the full force of the flames. Not only 156 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,120 was the fire a significant problem, but her makeup caused 157 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,159 another layer of danger. So the Wicked Witch is famous 158 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,799 for her saturated green skin, right. We all know that. 159 00:09:20,039 --> 00:09:23,679 To achieve this iconic green hue. However, the studio used 160 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:28,039 a copper based green paint, which posed risks to human 161 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,399 skin through prolonged or direct contact, and it was directly 162 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,120 on her skin. Plus, copper is a conductor for heat 163 00:09:36,519 --> 00:09:40,200 and is highly toxic. So as the fire burned her skin, 164 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,759 the makeup began to cook into her open wounds, and 165 00:09:43,759 --> 00:09:46,559 then the crew rushed to her, knowing the makeup could 166 00:09:46,639 --> 00:09:51,039 cause severe copper poisoning if it injured her bloodstream through 167 00:09:51,039 --> 00:09:53,320 the burns something, they started rubbing her down with rubbing 168 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,080 alcohol and acid tone to scrub this green paint off 169 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,960 her raw burned skin. So she's got open wounds, and 170 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:04,399 they're pouring literal alcohol and actone into these wounds, and 171 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,320 she's getting copper poisoning all the while. Talk about painful. 172 00:10:08,759 --> 00:10:12,080 Hamilton later described this cleaning process as more painful than 173 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,679 the fire itself. Buddy Ebsen was the original tin Man. 174 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,360 He also suffered from life threatening respiratory failure that changed 175 00:10:19,399 --> 00:10:23,080 the trajectory of his career. So Ebsen, originally cast for 176 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,000 the tin Man part, was hospitalized due to near fatal 177 00:10:27,039 --> 00:10:31,399 allergic reactions to aluminum dust makeup. When production began, the 178 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,600 makeup department was still experimenting with how to achieve this 179 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,000 like metallic chine that they wanted for his skin. For Ebsin, 180 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,720 they chose a dangerous method, coating his face and hands 181 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,799 with white grease paint and then dusting him with pure 182 00:10:44,799 --> 00:10:51,559 aluminum powder. Ingesting aluminum powder can lead to gastro intestinal irritation, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, 183 00:10:51,639 --> 00:10:55,240 and even gastro intestinal bleeding, and in some cases this 184 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,320 can be fatal. Well after nine days of filming, Ebsen 185 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,799 began ex experiencing severe cramping in his hands and feet, 186 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,919 followed by a terrifying inability to breathe. He was rushed 187 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,279 to the hospital and placed in an iron lung, which 188 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,200 is essentially like a mechanical respirator, just to keep him alive. 189 00:11:13,799 --> 00:11:18,559 The fine aluminum dust had coated his lungs like paint, 190 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,159 preventing oxygen from reaching his bloodstream. He had essentially suffered 191 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,799 a systematic clogging of his respiratory system and a severe 192 00:11:26,879 --> 00:11:30,440 allergic reaction to the metal. While Ebsen fought for his 193 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,240 life in the hospital bed, MGM stayed focused on their 194 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,639 bottom line for the movie, because you know, money actually 195 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,039 means a lot more than your actors' lives. 196 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 3: Producer Louis B. 197 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 2: Mayer reportedly didn't believe Ebsen was as sick as he 198 00:11:44,639 --> 00:11:47,919 claimed to be, and when it became clear that Ebsen 199 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,080 would need weeks to recover, the studio simply recasts the 200 00:11:52,159 --> 00:11:54,799 role to Jack Hayley. They did not have time for 201 00:11:54,879 --> 00:11:58,320 Ebsen to get better and to come back. Oddly enough, 202 00:11:58,519 --> 00:12:01,759 Ebsen's voice actually remained in the finished nineteen thirty nine 203 00:12:01,799 --> 00:12:05,159 film because the songs had already been recorded. The version 204 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,720 of We're Off to see the Wizard you hear as 205 00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:11,360 the trio heads down the Yellow Brick Road, features Ebsen's voice, 206 00:12:11,399 --> 00:12:14,919 not Jack Hayley's, because again they wanted to save money. Also, 207 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,759 as most people already know, the famous poppy field scene 208 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,240 with falling like snow is actually one hundred percent industrial 209 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,559 grade crisotile asbestos. This was a common Hollywood substitute for 210 00:12:26,639 --> 00:12:29,360 snow at the time, but the cast breathed it in 211 00:12:29,519 --> 00:12:33,320 for hours and just for a little background. They did 212 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,440 know that asbestos was harmful in the nineteen twenties, they 213 00:12:36,519 --> 00:12:38,759 knew significantly that it was leading to lung cancer in 214 00:12:38,799 --> 00:12:42,600 the forties and fifties, So nineteen thirty nine they know 215 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,200 asbestos is not good for you, and they're still using 216 00:12:45,279 --> 00:12:48,799 it as snow. We were all told as kids that 217 00:12:49,159 --> 00:12:53,080 you see a munchkin hanging in the background as Dorothy, 218 00:12:53,159 --> 00:12:55,399 the tin Man, and the Scarecrow all walk down the 219 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,960 yellow brick road before they have met up with the Lion, 220 00:12:58,200 --> 00:12:59,919 and then us as kids, we go back we will 221 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,720 the Wizard of Oz movie just to see this munchkin 222 00:13:02,799 --> 00:13:06,039 hanging in the background. This is about forty eight minutes 223 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:10,440 into the movie. Since then, this narrative has been officially debunked, 224 00:13:10,759 --> 00:13:14,039 stating that it was actually just a bird brought in 225 00:13:14,159 --> 00:13:16,840 from the zoo to roam the set like just a 226 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,159 roam free inside on the set to. 227 00:13:19,159 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 3: Give it a more magical feel. 228 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 2: Nevertheless, they have since edited out the silhouette because of 229 00:13:25,399 --> 00:13:28,639 these rumors, and of course I am inclined to believe 230 00:13:29,159 --> 00:13:31,440 that the rumors are true because of the lengths that 231 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,720 they have gone to to debunk the rumors and then 232 00:13:33,799 --> 00:13:38,840 remove the silhouette. I guess we'll never actually know unless 233 00:13:38,919 --> 00:13:41,960 the family comes forward if a munchkin did actually hang 234 00:13:42,039 --> 00:13:44,519 himself on the set of The Wizard of Oz. The 235 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,480 production of Wicked and The Wizard of Oz are separated 236 00:13:47,519 --> 00:13:50,320 by eighty five years, yet they seem to share a 237 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:55,519 spiritual DNA of extreme risk and logistical impossibility. Both film 238 00:13:55,559 --> 00:14:00,320 projects represent moments where Hollywood attempted something so massive it 239 00:14:00,399 --> 00:14:04,039 threatened to collapse under its own weight. For the impossible, 240 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,240 we have to remember that The Wizard of Oz was 241 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,440 filmed during the Great Depression, yet despite the economy, internal 242 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,559 memos and studio logs confirm a staggering two point seven 243 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:19,879 seven million dollar budget. The parent company of MGM Low's Inc. 244 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,639 Had even considered shutting down production due to the night 245 00:14:23,679 --> 00:14:28,080 mirrorsh costs, and slow pace. For reference, two point seven 246 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,360 seven million dollars in nineteen thirty nine is equivalent to 247 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:36,600 sixty four point one million dollars today. Sixty four million 248 00:14:36,679 --> 00:14:41,440 dollars during the Great Depression for one movie, that's crazy. 249 00:14:42,279 --> 00:14:46,320 As for Wicked, Universal Pictures and producer Mark Platt officially 250 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,480 announced the film in twenty twelve, so for over a 251 00:14:50,559 --> 00:14:54,000 decade it was labeled a cursed project in development hell 252 00:14:54,679 --> 00:14:58,000 it faced skepticism over how to adapt a three hour 253 00:14:58,039 --> 00:15:02,799 stage musical into a viable block. Both films also pushed 254 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:07,080 the boundaries of what was physically possible. While The Wizard 255 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,120 of Oz used the Technicolor three strip process, making the 256 00:15:10,159 --> 00:15:14,159 heat so unbearable the cast members fainted. Wicked's director John M. 257 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:19,399 Chew and production designer Nathan Crowley chose massive physical sets 258 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:24,879 for the set at Sky Studios Elstree. Also, they planted 259 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,159 nine million real tulips in the British countryside to create 260 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,080 munchkin Land, which honestly like I'll take nine million tulips 261 00:15:33,159 --> 00:15:38,600 over one hundred degree lighting. Wicked also utilized a fifty 262 00:15:38,759 --> 00:15:42,759 eight ton physical train for the Emerald City Express, blending 263 00:15:42,799 --> 00:15:46,480 tactical sets with state of the art CGI. World events 264 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,960 and internal leadership changes also hindered both films, so The 265 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,159 Wizard of Oz went through five directors and Wicked started 266 00:15:53,159 --> 00:15:57,559 with Stephen Daldry spending years on this project, only to 267 00:15:57,639 --> 00:15:59,360 be replaced by John M. 268 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,039 Speaker 3: Chew twenty one. 269 00:16:01,279 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 2: The Wizard of Oz production coincided with World War two 270 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,480 and COVID nineteen delayed Wicked. The director, Victor Fleming, was 271 00:16:08,519 --> 00:16:11,519 pulled from the Wizard of Oz just days before completion. 272 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,320 About that same stage in filming for Wicked. The filming 273 00:16:15,399 --> 00:16:19,559 was halted due to the twenty twenty three sag Aftra strike, 274 00:16:19,879 --> 00:16:24,320 during which actors and performers protested major studios. There were 275 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:30,039 major disagreements over streaming residuals, fair pay, self taped audition rules, 276 00:16:30,039 --> 00:16:33,080 and the use of AI, so studios wanted to scan 277 00:16:33,279 --> 00:16:37,559 actors faces and voices for digital use, potentially without consent 278 00:16:37,759 --> 00:16:41,159 or fair pay, which blackmir actually. 279 00:16:40,759 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 3: Did an episode about this. I don't know. 280 00:16:42,559 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 2: It's in the most recent season of Blackmere. They are 281 00:16:46,399 --> 00:16:48,799 literally telling you everything they're trying to do if you 282 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:53,480 watch the blackmre episodes. Ultimately, the sag Aftra strike ended 283 00:16:53,759 --> 00:16:57,759 with a new contract including AI provisions requiring consent and 284 00:16:57,879 --> 00:17:02,000 compensation for digital replicas. One of the most significant social 285 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,960 shifts in both films is the casting and portrayal of 286 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,559 the Munchkins. In nineteen thirty nine, MGM hired one hundred 287 00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:11,119 and twenty four little people from across the country to 288 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,599 play the citizens of munchkin Land. While it did provide 289 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,640 a massive amount of work for the performers with Dwarfism, 290 00:17:18,039 --> 00:17:21,240 the set was surrounded by many wild rumors of rowdy 291 00:17:21,279 --> 00:17:25,480 behavior and deplorable treatment of the actors. Wicked, on the 292 00:17:25,519 --> 00:17:30,079 other hand, reinvented what a munchkin is altogether in an 293 00:17:30,079 --> 00:17:32,839 attempt to avoid the backlash and poor aging of The 294 00:17:32,839 --> 00:17:36,680 Wizard of Oz's films characterization of its actors. Munchkins and 295 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,039 Wicked were no longer defined by height, but by a 296 00:17:40,079 --> 00:17:45,119 specific cultural aesthetic. This look was centered around the actor 297 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,720 Ethan Slater, who we definitely need to talk about. Ethan 298 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,880 Samuel Slater was born on June second, nineteen ninety two, 299 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,559 in Washington, d C. To his parents, Jay Slater, a 300 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,319 doctor at the Food and Drug Administration, and Ellen Goldmunts, 301 00:17:59,559 --> 00:18:02,880 a lawyer who tragically passed away when Ethan was only 302 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:07,200 seven years old. Ethan was raised a Jewish Conservative and 303 00:18:07,599 --> 00:18:12,440 attended or Kadesh School in Silver Spring. Ethan later graduated 304 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,559 from Georgetown Day School in Washington, D C. And moved 305 00:18:15,599 --> 00:18:18,039 on to study drama at Vassar College in New York. 306 00:18:18,319 --> 00:18:21,279 He graduated from Vassar with a Bachelor of Arts degree 307 00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:25,640 in drama in twenty fourteen. Shortly after Ethan began starring 308 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:30,359 in musicals such as Claudio Quest, Please Excuse My Dear Aunt, Sally, 309 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,000 and SpongeBob SquarePants. He earned many awards, including a Tony 310 00:18:34,039 --> 00:18:38,000 Award to Outstanding Actor in a Musical, awards from the 311 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:42,000 Drama Desk Awards and the Outer Critics Circle Awards, and 312 00:18:42,039 --> 00:18:45,240 the Theatre World Award for Best Performance in a Broadway 313 00:18:45,279 --> 00:18:49,400 Debut in twenty eighteen. Ethan then appeared in several episodes 314 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,240 of television series such as Law and Order, Murphy Brown, 315 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,559 and The Marvelous Missus Masel. However, he returned to theater 316 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,160 acting in twenty nineteen until he was cast as Backwood's 317 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,000 Men in Wicked. In twenty eighteen. Ethan married a former 318 00:19:04,079 --> 00:19:07,599 high school classmate, Lily j whom he had been dating 319 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,640 since twenty twelve. In August of twenty twenty two. They 320 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,599 had a son together, but less than a year later, 321 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,400 they separated and Ethan filed for divorce in July twenty 322 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:16,000 twenty three. 323 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 3: Their divorce was officially. 324 00:19:18,079 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 2: Finalized in September of twenty twenty four. Since the same 325 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,119 month he filed for divorce in July of twenty twenty three, 326 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,400 Ethan has been in a relationship with singer and co 327 00:19:26,519 --> 00:19:30,079 star Ariana Grande, whom he met on the set of Wicked. 328 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,720 Ariana Grande was born on June twenty sixth, nineteen ninety three, 329 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,559 in Boca Raton, Florida, to Edward Butterra, the president of 330 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,519 Ibi Designs, Incorporated, and Joan Grande, the CEO of Diamond 331 00:19:42,599 --> 00:19:46,880 Dogg Entertainment. Ariana's career began in twenty eight at the 332 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,599 age of fifteen, playing Charlotte in the Broadway musical Thirteen. 333 00:19:51,079 --> 00:19:55,119 From twenty ten to twenty fourteen, Arianna became most famous 334 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,759 for her role as Cat Valentine on the Nickelodeon television 335 00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:02,920 series Victorious and its spinoff Sam and Katt. Her Nickelodeon 336 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,319 career was not at all as fun as it appeared 337 00:20:06,319 --> 00:20:10,079 on screen. She later spoke out about the inappropriate behavior 338 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,079 of Dan Schneider, the producer who a lot of people 339 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,640 have talked out about. She and her co stars described 340 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,599 Schneider as controlling and terrifying. Arianna even stated in an 341 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,880 interview that looking back at the shows, she can't believe 342 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,960 how inappropriate the actors were made to behave and what 343 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,920 didn't make it on screen made it on their web page. 344 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,680 She said the shows were not appropriate for kids to 345 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,680 watch at all. Arianna then began a singing career, being 346 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,960 famously known for her four octave vocal range, extending into 347 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,160 the whistle register, which it's the highest sound the human 348 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,920 voice can produce. Other singers you may know who can 349 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,200 also hit this pitch are Mariah Carey, Christina Aguilera, and 350 00:20:51,319 --> 00:20:56,039 Axel Rose. However, on May twenty second, twenty seventeen, just 351 00:20:56,079 --> 00:20:59,440 as she was becoming really famous for her singing, she 352 00:20:59,559 --> 00:21:02,200 was performed at a concert in Manchester called One Love. 353 00:21:02,559 --> 00:21:06,440 The concert was tragically attacked by a suicide bomber, killing 354 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,799 twenty two people and injuring many more. Less than a 355 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,079 year later, her ex boyfriend Mac Miller tragically died of 356 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:17,400 a drug overdose. His fans blamed Arianna, prompting her to 357 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,119 turn off comments on Instagram because they were so upset 358 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,799 about his death. She admitted to going through severe PTSD 359 00:21:24,039 --> 00:21:27,400 and having trouble processing her trauma, and she struggled for 360 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:32,799 several years, but said her music was her healing therapy. 361 00:21:33,039 --> 00:21:33,759 Speaker 3: In the summer of. 362 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 2: Twenty twenty one, Arianna had her first audition for Wicked. However, 363 00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:41,519 due to a miscommunication, she prepared for both roles of 364 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:46,359 Glinda and Alphaba, actually singing Alphaba's songs before it was 365 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,319 clarified that she was primarily being considered for Glinda. On 366 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,200 November fourth, she and Cynthia Arrivo both posted a FaceTime 367 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,839 photo of themselves with John M. Chew, receiving news of 368 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,279 their role offers. In multiple interviews, Ariana described how she 369 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,960 had to go through an erasure process, stating quote, I 370 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,920 had to completely strip away the Ariana grande of it all. 371 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,960 I wanted to be Glinda, not a pop star playing 372 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,920 Glinda end quote. But in hindsight, it seems that she 373 00:22:16,079 --> 00:22:19,160 had been preparing for this role for almost a decade 374 00:22:19,319 --> 00:22:23,319 leading up to her audition, because in twenty eleven, Arianna 375 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,759 had tweeted about seeing the live musical Wicked, and she 376 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,079 wrote quote, loved seeing Wicked again. Amazing production. Made me 377 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,359 realize again how badly I want to play Glinda at 378 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,160 some point in my life hashtag dream role end quote. 379 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,039 In twenty eighteen, she performed the Wizard and I during 380 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:46,000 NBC's A Very Wicked Halloween special celebrating the musical's fifteenth anniversary. 381 00:22:47,039 --> 00:22:50,319 All that to say, Ariana had already been at least 382 00:22:50,559 --> 00:22:53,960 mentally preparing for this role for what seems like years 383 00:22:54,279 --> 00:22:57,880 before she ever auditioned. I could imagine that kind of 384 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,680 pressure would be hard for anyone, and if she finally 385 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,400 got a chance to have her dream role, what do 386 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,920 you think that she would do to keep it. From 387 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,680 twenty twenty two to twenty twenty four, Arianna went through 388 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,240 a significant transformation to become Glinda. This process started with 389 00:23:13,279 --> 00:23:16,799 her vocal retraining. She spent nearly six months with vocal 390 00:23:16,839 --> 00:23:21,480 coach Eric Vetro every single day, shifting her technique away 391 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,160 from her pop and R and B sounds before she 392 00:23:24,319 --> 00:23:28,480 even had her first audition for the movie. The vocal 393 00:23:28,519 --> 00:23:32,000 training was designed to train her muscles in a way 394 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,440 that honored the original Broadway version featuring Kristin Chenowith. Arianna 395 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,680 described her approach to preparation as acting as if the 396 00:23:40,759 --> 00:23:44,359 role was already hers way before she was cast. She 397 00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:48,319 took daily acting classes tailored explicitly for the role of Glinda. 398 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,960 She changed her wardrobe even down to her underwear during 399 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,880 the audition process, based on what she thought Glinda might 400 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,720 wear as underwear. Something I also thought was very interesting 401 00:24:01,039 --> 00:24:04,599 is that she used a very meticulous color coding system 402 00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:08,680 with like sticky tabs to track Glinda's emotional states, transitions, 403 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,720 and traumas. Throughout the scripts to become Glinda down to 404 00:24:12,839 --> 00:24:18,599 her emotional regulation. Which I'm no psychologist, but that doesn't 405 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:24,000 sound very healthy mentally to me. But I think this 406 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:29,279 is common in Hollywood, not necessarily unique to Ariana. She 407 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,880 appeared for five separate auditions and reportedly spent years expressing 408 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:38,480 her interest to producer Mark Platt. Platt says Arianna treated 409 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,279 the auditions like an Olympic event. She would arrive early 410 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,920 to circle the block to ensure that she was really 411 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,960 ready for the audition before going in. She also worked 412 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,400 with choreographers to develop a floaty walk, ensuring that even 413 00:24:53,559 --> 00:24:57,799 her movement felt more like a bubbly high society witch 414 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,039 than a modern day celebrity. Core strengthening exercises helped her 415 00:25:02,079 --> 00:25:06,079 maintain a perfectly upright, slightly leaning back posture, creating the 416 00:25:06,079 --> 00:25:10,000 illusion that her chest was being pulled upward and making 417 00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:13,039 it look like her legs were gliding rather than stepping. 418 00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:17,079 She also practiced a specific technique that would keep her 419 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,680 weight entirely on the balls of her feet, rather than 420 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,599 alternating from her heel to her toe. By walking like this, 421 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,079 it eliminated the thud sound that you would normally get 422 00:25:26,079 --> 00:25:29,000 from a regular walk and helped with the appearance of 423 00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:32,920 this magical glide. Another strenuous practice she had was spending 424 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,960 hours a day focusing on ballet based precision. She would 425 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,200 focus on portabras, which means the carriage of the arms, 426 00:25:41,559 --> 00:25:43,920 so her arms were rarely by her sides, they were 427 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,000 slightly lifted, as if she was holding a. 428 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,319 Speaker 3: Wand or a gown. 429 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 2: She also used the petite alegro, a series of micro movements, 430 00:25:52,519 --> 00:25:56,359 including quick, tiny adjustments of her feet, so that even 431 00:25:56,559 --> 00:25:59,039 when she was like standing still, she looked as if 432 00:25:59,079 --> 00:26:02,680 she was vibrating with energy. She would practice her physical 433 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,960 training in actual costume elements like high heels and heavy 434 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,519 skirts before filming ever even started to begin, so that 435 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,079 the weight of the clothes when they did begin filming 436 00:26:12,519 --> 00:26:13,680 wohen it mess up her. 437 00:26:13,559 --> 00:26:14,839 Speaker 3: Like floating illusion. 438 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 2: She also spent weeks practicing wand choreography so the wand 439 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,519 would feel natural, like an extension of her arm rather 440 00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:25,119 than a prop. In addition to all of this, she 441 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,559 worked with movement coaches to develop galindaisms. These were physical 442 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,559 ticks like specific head tilts, hand flutters, and hair flips 443 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,079 that she would practice daily until they evolved into her 444 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,880 own muscle memory until they evolved into arianaisms and it 445 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,720 gets crazy. So this intense training, both physically and vocally, 446 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,839 extended into Arianna's personal life and her connections on set. 447 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,559 I mean, like, how could it not. Filming began in 448 00:26:53,599 --> 00:26:57,240 December of twenty twenty two when Arianna met Ethan Slater, who, 449 00:26:57,279 --> 00:26:59,680 as we talked about earlier, was Cassa's back, a character 450 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,680 in the movie who was infatuated with Glinda. The official 451 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,000 timeline of their relationship starts in the UK, where Ariana 452 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:10,839 and Ethan became really close friends. At the beginning of filming, Ethan, 453 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,880 his then wife Lily, and their son even spent significant 454 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,839 time with Ariana on set, the three of them as 455 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,480 a family. Between March and May of twenty twenty three, 456 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,880 they were photographed sitting beside one another at the Oscar parties, 457 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,039 holding hands on set, and when Ethan posted a Mother's 458 00:27:28,079 --> 00:27:31,359 Day tribute to his wife, they still had not even 459 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:36,319 declared divorce yet on social media. Arianna liked the post. However, 460 00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:40,000 just a few months later, in July of twenty twenty three, 461 00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:44,440 news broke that Arianna and her husband, Dalton Gomez had separated. 462 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,519 Three days later, people in TMZ com from that Arianna 463 00:27:48,519 --> 00:27:52,000 and Ethan were officially dating. Then less than a week 464 00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:55,240 after that, on July twenty sixth Ethan filed for divorce 465 00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:56,279 from his wife, Lily. 466 00:27:57,079 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 3: Ethan's ex wife told Page six. 467 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 2: That Arianna was not a girl's girl and that her 468 00:28:01,759 --> 00:28:05,160 family was collateral damage, which led the public to believe 469 00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:08,240 that Ethan and Ariana had been having an onset affair. 470 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,680 The erasure process Arianna had mentioned took on this whole 471 00:28:13,759 --> 00:28:17,079 new context, because then it makes you wonder, did she 472 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:24,480 brainwash herself so convincingly that she literally changed into Golinda. Therefore, 473 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,519 the affection from Ethan's character back became her own reality 474 00:28:28,519 --> 00:28:30,480 that he was actually in love with her and they 475 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:37,680 were actually falling in love. It's possible, especially like how 476 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,720 do these actors get back to who they are after. 477 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:42,519 Speaker 3: They're done with their role? 478 00:28:42,759 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 2: Like you've created this person in your body, You've turned 479 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,440 into this person for however long, And you hear those 480 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,759 about a lot of different actors, that they become the 481 00:28:50,839 --> 00:28:53,319 character that they're meant to portray, and then all of 482 00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:56,799 a sudden they are just expected to go back to 483 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:02,400 being Ariana Grande. Who are you when you're not the 484 00:29:02,519 --> 00:29:08,279 character anymore. Arianna's journey of erasure of her own physical, vocal, 485 00:29:08,359 --> 00:29:12,039 and relational attributes and personality leads us to the odd 486 00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:16,200 relationship she has developed with her co star, Cynthia Rivo, 487 00:29:16,519 --> 00:29:21,839 who plays Alphaba. But let's get into some of Cynthia's 488 00:29:21,839 --> 00:29:25,079 history first. Cynthia Arrivo was born on January eighth, nineteen 489 00:29:25,119 --> 00:29:29,519 eighty seven, in Stockwell, London, England, to Nigerian immigrant parents. 490 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,440 Her mother, Edith Rivo, and her father moved to the 491 00:29:33,519 --> 00:29:37,240 UK from Nigeria fleeing the civil war there. Her father 492 00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:40,799 disowned and abandoned Cynthia and her younger sister, Stephanie when 493 00:29:40,839 --> 00:29:43,960 she was sixteen years old. She was raised primarily by 494 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,559 her mother, who was also working as a nurse, and 495 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,039 expressed many times that her mother was her biggest inspiration, 496 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,359 even naming her production company Edith's Daughter, in tribute to 497 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,000 her mother. In twenty thirteen, Cynthia played Seely in the 498 00:29:58,039 --> 00:30:01,200 London production of The Color Purple. In twenty fifteen, she 499 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,000 reprised the role for a Broadway debut, and critics described 500 00:30:04,039 --> 00:30:07,680 her voice as quote leather lungs soatin honey end quote. 501 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,279 The performance earned her the Triple Crown of Musical Theater 502 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,240 Awards at Tony, a Grammy, and a Daytime Emmy. In 503 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,640 twenty nineteen. She also played abolitionist Harriet Tudman in the 504 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,640 film Harriet, for which she earned two Academy Award nominations. 505 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,160 Cynthia has said that she became an actress out of 506 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,799 a deep seated love for performing, which was sparked by 507 00:30:29,799 --> 00:30:33,440 a solo and a Nativity play at the age of five. However, 508 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,839 she also says she was heavily encouraged by her teachers, 509 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,720 driven by a desire to prove herself after her father left, 510 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,759 and firmly convinced that she was meant for specific roles 511 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,839 like the one she played as Sealy. The role of 512 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,960 Alphaba is one Cynthia says she wanted to play because 513 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,079 she felt deeply connected to the character's feelings of being 514 00:30:55,119 --> 00:30:58,119 this outsider. She says she found a way to channel 515 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,200 her own past experiences with her father There's estrangement and 516 00:31:01,319 --> 00:31:05,319 sense of being othered into the role. She has stated 517 00:31:05,359 --> 00:31:08,119 that she felt the need to humanize the character, to 518 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,240 show her humanity, vulnerability, joy, and hope rather than just 519 00:31:12,319 --> 00:31:15,480 her anger. Cynthia was one of the last people to 520 00:31:15,559 --> 00:31:18,359 audition for the Wicked movie, which turned into this three 521 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,680 hour session that reportedly left her with a four hundred 522 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,920 degree fever for four days. While Arianna was focused on 523 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:31,160 mastering the illusion of floating, Cynthia was conditioning like a boxer, 524 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,279 waking up at two am for two hour workouts Before 525 00:31:34,319 --> 00:31:38,359 going to the set. She did vocal stunt work preparing 526 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,960 for the physical toll of singing in the flying harness. 527 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,000 She would sing during long runs and bike rides to 528 00:31:46,039 --> 00:31:49,119 condition her lungs to breathe differently than how she was 529 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,079 singing when she was just standing still. She says she 530 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,720 also used infrared sona blankets to deal with the bruising 531 00:31:55,839 --> 00:31:59,359 on the inside caused by the heavy harnesses and stunts. 532 00:31:59,799 --> 00:32:03,160 She says she relied on a therapist to manage the 533 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,160 emotional weight of the character. Similar to the horrific conditions 534 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,079 of the nineteen thirty nine set, Wicked's production required a 535 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,240 level of commitment that Cynthia described as torture at times. 536 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,079 During the production shutdown, she says she suffered a severe 537 00:32:17,279 --> 00:32:20,039 illness that lasted for over a week, with a fever 538 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,640 so high it made her skin hurt. At the times 539 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,960 when she was supposed to be flying in rehearsals to 540 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,319 prevent from going crazy during the strike delays of the filming, 541 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,519 she had to consciously practice letting go of the role's 542 00:32:33,559 --> 00:32:36,839 intensity because it had taken such a toll on her mentally, 543 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,720 which is so wild, because it's almost like she had 544 00:32:41,759 --> 00:32:44,720 to practice the character so much that her body felt 545 00:32:44,759 --> 00:32:47,519 like it had to really transform into. 546 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 3: A new person. 547 00:32:48,559 --> 00:32:51,559 Speaker 2: At least that's what it sounds like to me. Cynthia 548 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:56,000 and Ariana made a formal pact before filming to take 549 00:32:56,039 --> 00:32:59,640 care of each other. How we don't really know what 550 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,319 that means means not clear, but that's their pact. Apparently 551 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,319 they recognize the big responsibility and knew that they couldn't 552 00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:09,039 handle all the pressure from this role alone. The bond 553 00:33:09,079 --> 00:33:12,000 between the women became central to their lives on set. 554 00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:16,480 Co stars described Cynthia as being super productive of Ariana 555 00:33:16,519 --> 00:33:19,319 acting like a big sister, or some people have described 556 00:33:19,359 --> 00:33:22,680 her as like a mother figure. Some people have even 557 00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:25,519 speculated that there is more than just a friendly bond 558 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:30,160 between them, based on their intense physical affection. The handholding 559 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,200 during press tours, all the touching, all like answering each 560 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:39,599 other's questions, finishing each other's sentences. It's very odd, but 561 00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:42,920 both of them have clarified that their bond is just 562 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,640 this genuine and tender friendship, not a romantic one at all. 563 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,599 Both Ariana and Cynthia have come from very troubled pasts 564 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,759 and early love of performance and dedicated conditioning for their roles, 565 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,480 and not only do they both appear drastically changed by 566 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,480 their characters, but they also appear extremely bonded to one another. 567 00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:06,680 The first theory about Arianna is that she subsumed her 568 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,400 identity to the character of Glinda to escape her own trauma. 569 00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:13,920 Between the Manchester bombing and the death of mac Miller, 570 00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:18,599 Arianna lived through years of public mourning and PTSD. Some 571 00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:21,880 have argued that the pop star version of Ariana was 572 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,320 tied to so much pain that she used the erasure 573 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,000 process as a psychological exit from that. She was also 574 00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:31,559 a Nickelodeon kid, which we need to take into account 575 00:34:31,559 --> 00:34:34,159 because Lord only knows what she went through while she 576 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,079 was at Nickelodeon. Some people suggest that she has developed 577 00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:42,039 a chameleon nature, adapting to whatever her current circumstances are. 578 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,800 From the intense color coding of emotions to acting as if. 579 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:52,239 These are seen as a form of disassociative acting, where 580 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,800 she isn't just performing, she is replacing her own personality 581 00:34:56,079 --> 00:35:00,639 with this safer, bubbly fictional version to co with her 582 00:35:01,079 --> 00:35:04,639 real world stresses. Another part of this theory is that 583 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,199 her method acting caused her to mistake Ethan Slater for 584 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,880 his character Bach, and since Bach is obsessed with Glinda, 585 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,079 some claim that Ariana's erasure of herself made her unable 586 00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:19,679 to distinguish between her on screen affection and off screen reality. 587 00:35:20,679 --> 00:35:23,880 As for Cynthia, there's a theory that Cynthia's history of 588 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,920 proving herself led to this physical toll so extreme it 589 00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:34,400 bordered on sematic illness. Sematic illness or sematic symptom disorder 590 00:35:34,599 --> 00:35:38,679 SSD means a person has significant distress or problems functioning 591 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,199 due to physical symptoms like pain, fatigue, or headache that 592 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,599 may or may not have a clear medical cause. And 593 00:35:45,639 --> 00:35:48,920 if you remember, she has had this history of high 594 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,079 fevers for days after performance or distress of not being 595 00:35:52,119 --> 00:35:55,880 able to perform, and she also described having pain during 596 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,360 the moments she was supposed to be flying in her harness, 597 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,519 which maybe she does just have pain I'm sure that 598 00:36:01,559 --> 00:36:08,000 harness is painful, but could it have been compounding the issues. 599 00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:08,599 Speaker 3: That there already were. 600 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,159 Speaker 2: Cynthia's performance history since she was just five years old 601 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,320 has been defined by high stakes excellence. Being noticed for 602 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,239 her performances and chosen for such a high profile role 603 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,800 in Wicked, combined with the must wind mentality, ultimately led 604 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,360 to the boxer like training for the movie. Some people 605 00:36:28,519 --> 00:36:31,480 have suggested the somatic symptoms like the fevers and skin 606 00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:35,960 hurting are a result of the actual character Alphaba physically 607 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:42,280 manifesting in Cynthia's body like a spiritual possession. The most 608 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,239 speculated theory about both Arianna and Cynthia is that they 609 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,880 have entered into this like covenpack. The two of them 610 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,719 got matching tattoos on their hands of flower and the 611 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,639 quote for good. They have both been super vocal in 612 00:36:56,639 --> 00:37:00,800 interviews about their soulmate level friendship, and they're packed to 613 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,119 support each other unconditionally. Ariana has even referred to their 614 00:37:05,199 --> 00:37:08,719 pact as a beautiful coven. A lot of people, especially 615 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,639 on TikTok and Reddit, have suggested that the women have 616 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,480 been changed in an occult way, believing that the roles 617 00:37:15,519 --> 00:37:19,880 of the witches have a supernatural or psychological toll on 618 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,960 the performers who play them. There are many clips showing 619 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,480 them being overly protective of one another, speaking an era unison, 620 00:37:28,639 --> 00:37:34,079 and whose appearances have almost merged into very similar ones. 621 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,599 They look alike all the time. If you look at 622 00:37:37,599 --> 00:37:40,760 pictures of Ariana and Cynthia before they started filming, they 623 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,280 were both already pretty petite. However, the weight loss and 624 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,079 physical changes that both of them have gone through to 625 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,800 look almost weightless have had many people wondering if this 626 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,079 is a result of the intense training or if there 627 00:37:55,079 --> 00:37:59,679 were drugs involved. Specifically, people have suggested that multiple crew 628 00:37:59,679 --> 00:38:02,840 members were taking glp ones like ozembic, though this has 629 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,519 not been confirmed. But at just sixteen years old, Judy 630 00:38:06,599 --> 00:38:10,199 Garland was fed pet pills, which were amphetamines to keep 631 00:38:10,199 --> 00:38:13,039 her energy up, and then sleeping pills, which were barbituous 632 00:38:13,079 --> 00:38:15,679 to make her crash sleep when she needed to, then 633 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,320 give her the pet pills. That way she could keep 634 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,280 working for seventy two hour stretches, all the while being 635 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,159 kept on a very strict diet of broth, black coffee, 636 00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:26,519 and cigarettes. This grueling regiment was forced on her by 637 00:38:26,559 --> 00:38:29,599 the studio and by her mother. Many have claimed that 638 00:38:29,679 --> 00:38:32,239 this was the beginning of the cycle that started a 639 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,719 lifelong struggle with addiction for Garland, leading to her death 640 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,920 at the age of forty seven. It's believed this type 641 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,119 of treatment could have been happening to the Wicked cast 642 00:38:43,159 --> 00:38:46,119 as well, whether it was forced or voluntarily taken. The 643 00:38:46,199 --> 00:38:50,000 possibility the cast was given the modern equivalents of stimulants 644 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,039 or performance enhancing cocktails to keep them functioning under high 645 00:38:54,039 --> 00:38:58,840 stress has been widely speculated. Many people have pointed out 646 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,239 that Ariana and Cynthia's hyper emotional press tours made them 647 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:09,360 both appear erratic, like frequently crying, finishing each other's sentences, 648 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,000 and even acting spacey, which has made people believe they 649 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,920 were both on mood altering drugs. There are many claims 650 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,400 that this curse isn't just about drugs, or even about 651 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,280 the Wizard of Oz filming mistreatment at all. In nineteen 652 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,119 thirty nine, the cast of The Wizard of Oz was 653 00:39:26,199 --> 00:39:31,119 victimized by negligent chemistry and corporate greed. However, the cast 654 00:39:31,159 --> 00:39:35,639 of Wicked leaned into the aesthetic of white witchcraft. Ariana 655 00:39:35,679 --> 00:39:40,079 herself fueled the speculation in multiple interviews where she has 656 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,079 called herself a literal witch and the witchiest witch, and 657 00:39:44,199 --> 00:39:47,199 mentioned that she does taroor readings onset and has had 658 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:52,239 supernatural encounters with real demons. Arianna has this long history 659 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,440 of interest in the supernatural, so she famously told this 660 00:39:55,559 --> 00:39:59,559 story about visiting Stole Cemetery in Kansas, which is rumored 661 00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:02,280 to be a gateway to Hell. Which why you had 662 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,840 ever visit that place, I don't know. She claimed that 663 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,679 she felt an overwhelming feeling of negativity and smelled sulfur, 664 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,679 which is often associated with demons. No shit, you literally 665 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,119 went to the gateway of Hell. She also claimed she 666 00:40:14,159 --> 00:40:17,440 took a photo of textbook demons, but when she tried 667 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,239 to send it to her manager, the photo allegedly said 668 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,920 that the file was six hundred and sixty six megabytes 669 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,719 and could not be sent. You're literally messing with hell. 670 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,599 According to her co star Boen Yang, Arianna became the 671 00:40:31,679 --> 00:40:35,440 unofficial Taro reader for the whole cast. She reportedly used 672 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,360 a queer tarot deck and was noted at being very 673 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,400 in her element, performing three card pools for her fellow 674 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,199 actors between takes. Yang was quoted as stating that if 675 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,519 Ariana ever decided to stop singing. She could do taro 676 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,840 for a living because she was just like so good 677 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,719 at it. Jeff Goldbloom, who played the Wizard, stated in 678 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,599 an interview that watching Arion and Cynthia perform was a spiritual, 679 00:40:59,639 --> 00:41:03,960 in really religious experience, with an aura of nobility around them. 680 00:41:04,199 --> 00:41:07,880 Cynthia described her an Ariana's connection as magical and that 681 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,760 their voices locked in perfectly from the very first time 682 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,199 they sang together. But my favorite thing about Wicked, which 683 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,320 I've not seen the new one, so I can't talk. 684 00:41:17,519 --> 00:41:19,880 I can't speak to that one, but I did see 685 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,440 the first Wicked that came out with Arianna and Cynthia, 686 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,519 and my absolute favorite thing about it is that they 687 00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:30,079 tried to create this the government tries to create this 688 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,440 false narrative, and the evil villain is actually the person 689 00:41:34,639 --> 00:41:37,199 doing the right thing, and the government who's supposed to 690 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,559 be doing the right thing is actually the evil villain. 691 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,760 And they prove to you that conspiracies are true. It 692 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,880 was my absolute favorite part of the whole movie. I 693 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,360 didn't really like the movie, not really like a musical 694 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,400 type person, but I loved that aspect of it, and 695 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,599 I have been asked several times on several occasions. What 696 00:41:53,639 --> 00:41:55,840 my favorite part was, and I always say that that 697 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,639 the government is proving conspiracies are true. 698 00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 3: It's my favorite. 699 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,599 Speaker 2: Whether it is nineteen thirty nine or twenty twenty five, 700 00:42:02,679 --> 00:42:05,880 The Wizard of Oz or Wicked, there are many conspiracy 701 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,480 theories surrounding the stories and their casts. In nineteen thirty nine, 702 00:42:09,559 --> 00:42:13,039 the studio treated actors like props, resulting in a masterpiece 703 00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:16,719 built on real physical trauma, while the actors of Wicked 704 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,280 treated themselves like vessels. The production was built on emotion 705 00:42:20,519 --> 00:42:25,679 and spiritual erasure. Why from the toxic copper face paint 706 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,440 of the past to the matching coven tattoos of the present, 707 00:42:29,679 --> 00:42:32,599 The legacy of Oz proves that to create a world 708 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,559 so convincingly magical, the people involved had to lose a 709 00:42:36,599 --> 00:42:40,159 bit of their own reality, whether through pet pills or 710 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:44,079 method acting. There is a real deep rabbit hole into 711 00:42:44,119 --> 00:42:47,920 Wizard curses and Wicked conspiracies. Let me know what you 712 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,599 think about all of this. Is it all just part 713 00:42:50,599 --> 00:42:52,719 of the cost of being in a major Hollywood film? 714 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,119 Could it be a result of popular GLP one drugs? 715 00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,639 Do you think there's like this supernatural presence behind the 716 00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:03,679 story of oz let me know all the comments. But 717 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,039 until next time, my friends, stay skeptical and I will see. 718 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,400 Speaker 3: You all then. Hey, friends. 719 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,119 Speaker 2: The rabbit Hole is an independent podcast written, hosted, and 720 00:43:12,159 --> 00:43:14,960 produced by me Danny Mercy. Special thanks to Lindsay for 721 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,440 research and writing. If you love the podcast, please leave 722 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,719 us a five star rating and review wherever you're listening. 723 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,840 Follow us on social media at rabbit dot Hole podcast, 724 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,719 and visit our website at Stay Skeptical dot com for 725 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:26,440 everything else