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<v Speaker 1>Psalms one five fifteen says touch my anointed, Touch not

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<v Speaker 1>my anointed, rather, and do my profits no harm. Normally,

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<v Speaker 1>this means that God's chosen people, particularly those who are

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<v Speaker 1>serving as messengers of God's word, should not be harmed

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<v Speaker 1>or mistreated. Does this mean even when they do harm

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<v Speaker 1>and also mistreat Tracy has the story Tracy.

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<v Speaker 2>In another horrifying series of events from religious institutions which

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<v Speaker 2>we seem to never be in a shortage of recent finding,

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<v Speaker 2>an Australian Russian Orthodox priest named Alexis rosen Tool has

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<v Speaker 2>been found guilty of the sexual assault of two men

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<v Speaker 2>and a child. Following the release of this information and

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<v Speaker 2>in a press release which I read as a bit detached,

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<v Speaker 2>the Russian Orthodox Church apologized, and on Sunday, July sixth,

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<v Speaker 2>a high priest at the offender's former church warned his

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<v Speaker 2>flock not to judge the priest, as sheep do not

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<v Speaker 2>judge the shepherd, and to judge a priest is to

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<v Speaker 2>judge their God himself. He uses his God as an

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<v Speaker 2>instrument in fear, saying that to condemn is pride, and

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<v Speaker 2>pride is one of the greatest sins. If condemnation is

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<v Speaker 2>a sin, then their God must be the greatest sinner

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<v Speaker 2>of all. This story is from the Friendly Atheist by

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<v Speaker 2>Heaven't Metta on July ninth, twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 3>This is shit.

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<v Speaker 1>Internet apologists say say, which is unfortunate. And I want

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<v Speaker 1>to ask you, Tracy, if you can kind of go

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit deeper into this particular story. If you can,

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<v Speaker 1>you know well basically what led to set events and

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<v Speaker 1>also to lead said priest to tell basically the sheep,

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<v Speaker 1>which are the dumb congregants, because sheep are one of the.

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<v Speaker 3>Most dumbest animals.

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<v Speaker 1>That walk the face of this earth, to basically say

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<v Speaker 1>nada about the prophet hints or the Shepherd even in

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<v Speaker 1>his wrongdoing.

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't really know what led up to them

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<v Speaker 2>finding out about all this. I understand that there were

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<v Speaker 2>some documents found about a former conclavor or project that

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<v Speaker 2>he had been in the Holy Transfiguration Monastery of Bambala,

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<v Speaker 2>and he had this really messed up list of rules

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<v Speaker 2>and regulations and mission statements for it. I can pull

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<v Speaker 2>up a couple examples here. Fear the Abbot as your

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<v Speaker 2>lord and love him as your father. When you are

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<v Speaker 2>abuse to be quiet, offend no one. And when you

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<v Speaker 2>are offended, Barrett patiently put no hope in vain plans

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<v Speaker 2>and dreams. And then it goes on like this massive

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<v Speaker 2>rant about how women are evil and will suck away

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<v Speaker 2>your virtue with their venom, and it's really quite insane.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not one hundred percent, but I believe that this

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<v Speaker 2>that made was it that the turning up of this

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<v Speaker 2>document was what had caused them just to turn against

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<v Speaker 2>him in the first place, or am I just off

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<v Speaker 2>base entirely there?

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<v Speaker 1>No.

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<v Speaker 4>I think the condemnation of the of the priests was

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<v Speaker 4>what they were talking about the congregation, and that's when

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<v Speaker 4>the priest officiating that they said, do not judge him

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<v Speaker 4>because he was one of our party. Sure, he was

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<v Speaker 4>the priest at this congregation at the time. And then

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<v Speaker 4>the the article talks about this other congregation that Rose

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<v Speaker 4>and Tool created between the time of the events he

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<v Speaker 4>was child for and the time he was charged. So

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<v Speaker 4>all this is on the span of almost twenty years.

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<v Speaker 4>But yeah, you mentioned the passage about women. I'd like

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<v Speaker 4>to read it to you because it's quite entertaining. Well

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<v Speaker 4>in a way, it says, and I quote, the gaze

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<v Speaker 4>of a woman is like a poison arrow, wounding, wounding

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<v Speaker 4>the soul and to death. It is better to jump

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<v Speaker 4>into a raging fire than to draw near to a

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<v Speaker 4>young woman, especially when you are young. Avoid discourse with

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<v Speaker 4>women if you hope to curb your body lusts. The

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<v Speaker 4>beautiful face is more destructive than thunder and lightning. So

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<v Speaker 4>that's what happens when Yeah, yeah, that's that's what happens.

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<v Speaker 4>When when when you prevent men from having a normal sexuality,

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<v Speaker 4>then they developed an abnormal one.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's what I don't know, Cindy.

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<v Speaker 1>I think this kind of like leads to like some

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<v Speaker 1>in cells that we see like on the intrawebs, like

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<v Speaker 1>you know, because they talk like this, right and And

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, Cindy, when you last looked at yourself

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<v Speaker 1>in the mirror, did you think of nothing but destructive

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<v Speaker 1>thundering and lightning? I wish me too, I tell you,

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<v Speaker 1>I tell you, I think that we would get our

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<v Speaker 1>way with like all the time if we're like, you know, what,

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<v Speaker 1>if you don't pay us equally, guess what thundering and lightning?

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<v Speaker 3>Bitch?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but you know, but the city.

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<v Speaker 1>I did want to ask you because, like you mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>in your notes about this article actually containing two parts.

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<v Speaker 3>Can you explain what you meant about that?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah. The first of the first part of the elt

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<v Speaker 4>is the let's let me put it back. So the

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<v Speaker 4>archbishop uh what's.

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<v Speaker 3>His name, George Sefer, Yes, that's him.

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<v Speaker 4>Uh. And the the he so he's officiating after the

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<v Speaker 4>conviction of Alexei Rosenthal, who was a member of this parish,

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<v Speaker 4>and he says, do not judge him because your sheep,

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<v Speaker 4>and he's a he's a shepherd. And so Alan Metta

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<v Speaker 4>he worked, he researched Alexei Rosenthal to know more about him,

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<v Speaker 4>and that's where the second part of the article comes,

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<v Speaker 4>and the the information about his congregation where he was

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<v Speaker 4>the leader and there were only women uh in there.

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<v Speaker 4>So yeah, that's the two parts of them of the article.

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<v Speaker 4>Rosenthul was sentenced to ten months in prison for raping

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<v Speaker 4>two men and a child. So I'm just putting this,

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<v Speaker 4>uh ten just in month, Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, ten months, because that speaks justice. Ten months actually

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<v Speaker 1>doing you know, certain things to particular.

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<v Speaker 2>People, see the instances of sexual battery.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Well you know should we

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<v Speaker 3>say that?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I guess because of the way that they looked

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<v Speaker 1>at women that's the reason why they did it to

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<v Speaker 1>two men and a child instead.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>It's let me go, let me grab my thoughts here

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<v Speaker 1>because I have so many. But before I actually go

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<v Speaker 1>into all of that, Tracy, I want you.

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<v Speaker 3>To if you could just answer this question.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what are the dangers of equating criticisms of clergy

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<v Speaker 1>with blasphemy? And how does that believe silence victims and

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<v Speaker 1>enable the actual perpetriggers.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you can see very clearly the dangers of

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<v Speaker 2>questioning your clergy and equating questioning your clergy with blasphemy.

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<v Speaker 2>In the story of history, as we've seen it over

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<v Speaker 2>and over again, the divine right of kings led to

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<v Speaker 2>some very very horrible situations. War's horrible living situations, and

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<v Speaker 2>laws and society set up this you know, Uh, the

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<v Speaker 2>entire feudal system as a whole largely came from like

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<v Speaker 2>this divine right, this thing that I will not be

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<v Speaker 2>questioned because my will is the will of God, if

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<v Speaker 2>you allow. I mean the the the old adage, of course,

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<v Speaker 2>will always ring true that absolute power corrupts absolutely and

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<v Speaker 2>and and it will happen like that as clearly happened.

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<v Speaker 2>This man was handed an amount of power that he

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<v Speaker 2>clearly could not control, clearly did not have the ability

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<v Speaker 2>to to to to use well, and he used it

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<v Speaker 2>to harm others. This is one of the most obvious

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<v Speaker 2>ways we can see that conflating those two things is

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<v Speaker 2>extremely dangerous and one of the and it's one of

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<v Speaker 2>the reasons that I find religious thinking to be so dangerous,

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<v Speaker 2>because it isn't too long ago that and it is

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<v Speaker 2>still kind of the case in some places that questioning

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<v Speaker 2>even just your preacher is tantamount to blasphemy, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's a very dangerous thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, I can think of so many different

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<v Speaker 1>instances when I was attached to a more strict church

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<v Speaker 1>institution where basically the leader, the pastor the prophet, the apostle,

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<v Speaker 1>the Angel of the house as you know, whatever type

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, moniker you want to assign, was basically

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<v Speaker 1>giving you know, absolution like the pope, regardless of what

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<v Speaker 1>they said they did or you know, or even like

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<v Speaker 1>whatever type of possible harm that they could cause out

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<v Speaker 1>another person. Now, you know, I can't really say in

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<v Speaker 1>my personal experience that I knew specifically of pastors, ministers,

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<v Speaker 1>or even priests when I was part of you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a more Roman Catholic or even like Little Sea Catholic.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what the episcopals were as far as like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>doing abuse. But of course, like you know, being part

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<v Speaker 1>of this particular institution of the ACA and talking about

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<v Speaker 1>these stories we talk about, you know, essay a lot

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to the church, and it's not just

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<v Speaker 1>a Catholic church, right, And unfortunately there's this idea that's

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<v Speaker 1>not just in the Catholic Church obviously, that the leadership

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<v Speaker 1>should not be held accountable for some of the horrible

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<v Speaker 1>things did they do to the more vulnerable populations of

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<v Speaker 1>their congregation. And it's always in some particular cases children

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<v Speaker 1>or young people like I. I don't know how old

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<v Speaker 1>the two men were who were assaulted, but if someone

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<v Speaker 1>can actually find in an article, that'd be great. But

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<v Speaker 1>you know, okay, but but you know, but we do

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<v Speaker 1>know that it was a child. And and unfortunately, and unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 1>we have way too many, too many cases where children

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<v Speaker 1>are the victims of people who are in authority that

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<v Speaker 1>we're supposed to look up to to be infallible and

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<v Speaker 1>they're supposed to be anointed men of God or whatever

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<v Speaker 1>that we're supposed to look at them and feel and

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<v Speaker 1>and and should feel some type of safety, but unfortunately

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<v Speaker 1>that's not the case. I remember, guys, my seventh and

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<v Speaker 1>eighth grade teacher from my parochial school, Roman Catholic Parochial

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<v Speaker 1>School unfriended me on Facebook because I put up a

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<v Speaker 1>meme that said that more children were harmed in church

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<v Speaker 1>than at drag queen shows. And he decided to scold

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<v Speaker 1>me because I decided to do.

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<v Speaker 3>It on Holy Week, right before Easter.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I only replied to him one sentence that

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<v Speaker 1>was a question.

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<v Speaker 3>I said to my teacher, where's the lie?

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<v Speaker 1>Next thing, you know that I was unfriended, But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>but that's the thing, like, you know, we constantly are

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<v Speaker 1>covering these stories, and we're constantly covering children and men

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<v Speaker 1>and women and victims after victim after victim when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to and then we're supposed to keep silence about this,

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<v Speaker 1>like you know, the congregation can't talk about it, People

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<v Speaker 1>on the outside should not talk about it, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>but we want to demonize and you know, scapegoat to

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<v Speaker 1>the queer community as as far as like they're being predators,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're not the predators.

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<v Speaker 3>They're not they're they're not the predators. I'm not and

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<v Speaker 3>they're not. They're not, They're not the predators.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the same thing that bad guys have been I'm sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's the same thing that bad guys in politics

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<v Speaker 2>have been doing forever. Is just pointing at a small

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<v Speaker 2>group of people and saying, you see those people over there,

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<v Speaker 2>they're doing everything that you're afraid people are doing.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's well living.

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<v Speaker 1>Your life and not necessarily having to ask permission in

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<v Speaker 1>order for you to be happy, for you to be

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<v Speaker 1>able to actually, you know, live.

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<v Speaker 3>The truth of who you are to you, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, I mean, like and again it just goes back

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<v Speaker 1>to this, to this whole thing about like if you

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<v Speaker 1>want to see control, this is how what the control

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<v Speaker 1>looks like, Cindy, you know, talk about evidence, Like, if

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<v Speaker 1>you want evidence about religion, what's that look like?

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<v Speaker 4>You know, there's what I was listening to you. There's

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<v Speaker 4>something that I've been trying to to explain for for

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<v Speaker 4>a little while. And we talked about teaching critical thinking

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<v Speaker 4>in school. And so when we are children, we are

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<v Speaker 4>wired to to listen to authority, to our parents, right,

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<v Speaker 4>and religion relies heavily on this that's why they teach

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<v Speaker 4>religion to kids because they they they mistake this, uh,

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<v Speaker 4>this religious authority to parental authority to children the same.

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<v Speaker 4>So on the other hand, when when when we talk

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<v Speaker 4>about science, uh, we we rely on the words and

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<v Speaker 4>and and the and the studies and and all that

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<v Speaker 4>from people and we use them as a source of knowledge.

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<v Speaker 4>And so people, most people don't understand the difference between

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<v Speaker 4>the two. And teaching critical thinking is crucial because we

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<v Speaker 4>need to be able to live in society where we

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<v Speaker 4>can make the difference between the two. Because this week

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<v Speaker 4>while we're recording this, there's a big issue on the

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<v Speaker 4>US government with this Epstein client list. Does it exist,

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<v Speaker 4>does it not? You shouldn't listen to it, etcetera, etcetera.

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<v Speaker 4>And because so many people listen to one man in

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<v Speaker 4>position of authority and believe what he said and didn't

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<v Speaker 4>apply critical thinking. And now I don't know, I don't

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<v Speaker 4>know how to how to explain this difference to people.

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<v Speaker 4>But someone needs to.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, because like here in the style Innidos

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<v Speaker 1>and in other places where you know religion or even

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<v Speaker 1>like you know, when you when you have regimes over

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<v Speaker 1>you that do not allow or discourage critical thinking and skepticism. Unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 1>you have a vast array of misinformation in misdirection to

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<v Speaker 1>happen to get into the frame, you know, and people

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<v Speaker 1>start to who happen to be you know, the in

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<v Speaker 1>the electorate are you know, propagandized to death and to

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<v Speaker 1>the point where we're at the area of you know,

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<v Speaker 1>between not necessarily knowing what is fact and what is

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<v Speaker 1>not because we're basically being told that, hey, this whole

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<v Speaker 1>thing right here where the evidence looks like that this

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<v Speaker 1>is actually thing, we're propagandized to say this is not

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<v Speaker 1>a thing. Right. And unfortunately, we had a very long

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<v Speaker 1>history due to you know, religion being such so intertwined

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<v Speaker 1>with how our society has grown. Even though that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the United States is not.

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<v Speaker 3>An old country. We're like what two hundred and forty

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<v Speaker 3>nine years old, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>And I mean even though the founders, like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>made it a point when in the very first Amendment

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<v Speaker 1>to do the Establishment Cause to separate church and state,

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<v Speaker 1>religion and government because they saw in Europe how when

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<v Speaker 1>you know, church gets involved with government, all types of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, bad crap happens. Right, But unfortunately, we still

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<v Speaker 1>had people who ended up getting into the government who

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<v Speaker 1>don't want that right we had. We have sitting Congress

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<v Speaker 1>people now saying they don't believe in the separation of

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<v Speaker 1>religion and government. Crap, you know, coming out of their

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<v Speaker 1>mouths as they are talking to other you know, religious

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<v Speaker 1>and religion institutions, right, And this is what we're fighting

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<v Speaker 1>against now.

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<v Speaker 3>So when we are.

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<v Speaker 1>Looking at instances like this story where people are clearly

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<v Speaker 1>being harmed and you know, and just to go on

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<v Speaker 1>like a small rant. One of the things that really

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<v Speaker 1>grinds my gears is when I am talking to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Christians specifically, who will confront you as a person who

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<v Speaker 1>happens to be secular, non believer or agnostic, atheist, whatever

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<v Speaker 1>you decide you're going to call yourself. And you mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>a instance or several instances where there was actual harm

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<v Speaker 1>that came from the top down from a religious institution,

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<v Speaker 1>and they say, oh, you left because a church hurt,

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<v Speaker 1>and you're not supposed to lead because a church heart,

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<v Speaker 1>because you're supposed to look at God and not the band.

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<v Speaker 1>I said, well, baby girl, how in the hell am

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<v Speaker 1>I supposed to separate to if I am taught that

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<v Speaker 1>the man that's standing in front of me is a

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<v Speaker 1>representation of God.

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<v Speaker 3>Make that make sense. So now we.

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<v Speaker 1>Are here at these crossroads, and we are constantly being

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<v Speaker 1>bombarded with looking over there at the bush even though

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<v Speaker 1>it's on fire.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh no, don't look at the bushes on fire. Look

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<v Speaker 3>over here. Okay, I mean, like, what do you want

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<v Speaker 3>us to do? Okay?

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<v Speaker 1>It has to be to the point where we are saying, listen,

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<v Speaker 1>we cannot allow ourselves to keep silent when we are

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<v Speaker 1>seeing people doing harm to the least of us. We

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<v Speaker 1>cannot allow just because a person happens to have a

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<v Speaker 1>religious leadership position to get away without being accountable when

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<v Speaker 1>they are doing harm to people. And you cannot continuously

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<v Speaker 1>gaslight people into if there are leaving religion and they're

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<v Speaker 1>leaving these institutions, and they're leaving belief systems and they're

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<v Speaker 1>wanting to lean more to skepticism and critical thinking and

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<v Speaker 1>actually gaining knowledge through using empirical evidence rather than wishful thinking.

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<v Speaker 1>Not to demonize them because that's what they decide to do,

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<v Speaker 1>because it's obvious that we've been doing this belief faith

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<v Speaker 1>crap all this time and it's not working for us.

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<v Speaker 4>It's not amen at all.