Speaker 1: Justin Worship, as host of The Dad Podcast, joins us
Speaker 1: on Wednesdays to talk parenting. We love it when Justin
Speaker 1: is here. It is a fastest half hour and radio
Speaker 1: nothing but a good time. No, you're what they called
Speaker 1: me in high school. Nothing but that's not true. That's
Speaker 1: going to start lying to people now.
Speaker 2: Justin, that's a good point, Shannon, I'm sorry dumped that.
Speaker 3: Jacob to your credit. Never mind, I'm.
Speaker 4: Just gonna say it like it's new Shannon that doesn't
Speaker 4: say things on the air for some reason.
Speaker 5: Weird.
Speaker 2: It's really it's like.
Speaker 4: A fun like you know, you've been with your partner
Speaker 4: for a while and you learn something new about them,
Speaker 4: kind of a thing that to me feels like this,
Speaker 4: you're left handed. Yeah, I didn't know that, Like, I
Speaker 4: didn't know this was the skills that she had. And
Speaker 4: it's fun, as much as it might be annoying to be.
Speaker 2: Like, well, what was she gonna say? Like, I don't
Speaker 2: know why, but I find it compelling and interesting.
Speaker 5: We're looking through this article about signs that you're too
Speaker 5: hard on your kid. Before we get into the signs,
Speaker 5: Shannon actually brought something up earlier in the show, and
Speaker 5: I thought Okay, so you would agree with me that
Speaker 5: if you're thinking, if you're even entertaining the thought, am
Speaker 5: I being too hard or too lenient on the kids?
Speaker 4: Fine, you're probably okay. And this is I'm saying this seriously.
Speaker 4: Every expert that I ever talked to on the Dad
Speaker 4: podcast said those words almost verbatim that whether you're a
Speaker 4: child development specialist, psychologists, a doctor, or like social worker,
Speaker 4: like anything that would be like worried or focused on
Speaker 4: the development of a child and parenting, they all said
Speaker 4: the exact same thing. If you're worried about whether or
Speaker 4: not you are being a good parent, you're not the
Speaker 4: people that we need to worry about or should be
Speaker 4: talking about.
Speaker 3: I mean the old trope of.
Speaker 5: Beaver's mom, June Cleaver saying something to Ward like don't
Speaker 5: you think you're being a little hard on the Beaver
Speaker 5: and Death.
Speaker 2: Was like, what are you talking about? Ward?
Speaker 5: Cleaver could give two rips about whether he was too
Speaker 5: hard on Wally and Beaver.
Speaker 4: This has always been my thing in parenting is that
Speaker 4: I know lots of people who are very, very sweet
Speaker 4: to their kids, and it makes zero sense to me.
Speaker 2: But in my experience, anecdotally, I'm saying those.
Speaker 4: Kids, for whatever reason, have so much animosity for their
Speaker 4: parents and struggle like I wish because it seems wildly counterintuitive.
Speaker 2: But I also know people who were severely.
Speaker 4: Abused, like emotionally and physically, and yet they somehow grow
Speaker 4: up to have an easier time in adulthood than those
Speaker 4: people who had been coddled and loved and been gentlely
Speaker 4: treated or handled their entire life. I don't understand. It
Speaker 4: doesn't make sense, but that's what I've seen across the board.
Speaker 4: I haven't seen a contradiction in my own personal experience
Speaker 4: to that.
Speaker 3: I have a hypothetical to ask you guys.
Speaker 1: A story, and I think that this happens pretty I
Speaker 1: don't want to say regularly, but it happens where let's
Speaker 1: just say, a teenage boy is involved with his first
Speaker 1: girlfriend or whatever in school and she's wildly possessive. She
Speaker 1: doesn't want him to have female friendships, she doesn't want
Speaker 1: him to have interaction with his sister's friends, nothing like
Speaker 1: that kind of cuts him off from his friends. Not
Speaker 1: the extracurriculars, because they're both in the same kind of extracurriculars,
Speaker 1: but to the point where this person is changing. You know,
Speaker 1: this kid, this young boys, you know, obviously affected, is
Speaker 1: being manipulated, and it's a highly toxic relationship, and she's
Speaker 1: highly territorial and abusive, some would argue, and the parents
Speaker 1: have done everything. They've cut the kid off, they've taken
Speaker 1: the kid's car away, they've they have access to the
Speaker 1: text messages all the things she says vile things about
Speaker 1: the parents as well via text.
Speaker 2: It's a very specific hypothetical. Are you picking up on
Speaker 2: the story that I heard?
Speaker 1: And I was completely and I was listening to the story, and.
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, what a nightmare?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, not being a parent, What do
Speaker 1: you do in that situation?
Speaker 4: What I would tell you is that I would do
Speaker 4: is when they get to that age, because we're talking
Speaker 4: teenage years, I've already kind of hit that point where
Speaker 4: I was just thinking about this last week where I'm
Speaker 4: not really doing a lot of parenting anymore to my
Speaker 4: sixteen and thirteen year old. Like there's guidance that is suggested,
Speaker 4: but it's hardly heard. It's pretty much dismissed on a
Speaker 4: regular basis now. So it's really just about keeping the
Speaker 4: bumpers up, is kind of my approach. Now because you
Speaker 4: have to let them and I remind them of that.
Speaker 4: I go, you're at an agent, you're going to decide
Speaker 4: to not listen to me. So it's hard because I
Speaker 4: think that they've done everything they could do to keep
Speaker 4: the kids safe, because they're at least by monitoring text
Speaker 4: messages and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, I know there's lots of parents.
Speaker 4: Who believe that bs of like privacy and all that stuff,
Speaker 4: and I'm not a fan.
Speaker 2: I just don't.
Speaker 4: I didn't think I would be this guy when my
Speaker 4: kids were younger. But I'm like, if you don't get
Speaker 4: privacy until you pay for stuff on your own and
Speaker 4: move out, like, that's when I will respect your privacy.
Speaker 4: But when you need me to provide everything to you,
Speaker 4: that also can become a tool that I feel like
Speaker 4: I need to use to make sure you're being safe,
Speaker 4: and I decide to what extent I allow you to
Speaker 4: have privacy in that regard, that's my opinion. But so
Speaker 4: you're aware so that nobody's getting hurt, that's all you
Speaker 4: can do, and you have to let it run its
Speaker 4: course because when they're teenagers, they don't want.
Speaker 2: To listen to you, and the more you push, the
Speaker 2: harder they push back, and you're fighting yourself in a.
Speaker 1: Quick s the mistakes and figure it out. Yeah, tough,
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 4: I Like, I'll be honest, just sitting here listening to
Speaker 4: that circumstance, I'm imagining each of my sons being like
Speaker 4: trying to figure out what I would do, and I
Speaker 4: don't even like my answer, but I do feel confident
Speaker 4: that that's what I would do it.
Speaker 2: I'd just be like, we're just gonna have to wait
Speaker 2: this out and see how it goes.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because you can't necessarily drive an intentional wedge between
Speaker 5: your kid and whoever they're in the relationship with, because
Speaker 5: depending on your kid's personality, that draws them to that
Speaker 5: person even more, no matter how abusive or manipulative that
Speaker 5: other person is. That there's an ingrained pushback to whatever
Speaker 5: your parents do, period, and when your parents tell you
Speaker 5: it's wrong or illegal or you can't do it in
Speaker 5: this house, then you turn around and you're drawn to
Speaker 5: that thing that is now off limits.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I would almost argue that much like we talk a
Speaker 4: lot about being overprotective, right, that that somehow that delays,
Speaker 4: that stunts the development by slowing down the connection in
Speaker 4: this relationship. You might be prolonging it unintentionally, right, the
Speaker 4: more you just let them confront the crazy Because my
Speaker 4: parents I had a girlfriend in high school that my
Speaker 4: parents didn't like at all, and thankfully they just kind
Speaker 4: of let it go.
Speaker 2: They would drop.
Speaker 4: Hints of like, no, that seems a little nutty, man,
Speaker 4: like are you sure like that kind of stuff, and
Speaker 4: then after a while I came out of the fog
Speaker 4: of sex.
Speaker 2: It was just like, oh, yeah, she is a little kooky.
Speaker 2: This is not right.
Speaker 1: A right.
Speaker 5: Parents dot Com had this article about signs that you're
Speaker 5: being too hard on your kid, according to psychologists, and
Speaker 5: there's a.
Speaker 2: Couple of them already putting to psychologists like what do
Speaker 2: they know?
Speaker 5: I mean, the first one here is your tone is
Speaker 5: consistently harsh. We are all awful. We're awful judges of
Speaker 5: how our tone is.
Speaker 2: Of course it is.
Speaker 5: In the middle of the moment. You're never going to
Speaker 5: be able to temper your tone. I am in a
Speaker 5: moment right now, and stop telling me I'm not.
Speaker 4: You know. The only part that bums me out about
Speaker 4: this is that your fantastic producer Keiana found the articles
Speaker 4: for this week normally I find them, but whenever I
Speaker 4: come across something like this that I read it and
Speaker 4: I felt this way when I read it. When she
Speaker 4: said to Tommy, like, what do you think of this?
Speaker 4: I was like, I like it when it pokes gary
Speaker 4: and I just see something. It always tickles my soul
Speaker 4: when I know that I'm gonna come in and you
Speaker 4: go like, what the hell is it there?
Speaker 3: That's why I brought the Westminster Dog.
Speaker 4: As person listening to it, pure joy, pure joy the
Speaker 4: whole time.
Speaker 2: I agree, I thank you very much.
Speaker 4: So having said all of this, is I am guilty
Speaker 4: of a lot of these. I'm way too harsh on
Speaker 4: my kids, arguably, Like the one that I think is
Speaker 4: garbage is if you only give love when they're exhibiting
Speaker 4: good behavior.
Speaker 3: What the that's awful? Withholding love? I think is a gross.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. But hold on because I'm its
Speaker 2: favor of this.
Speaker 4: That's what I'm saying. I'm saying I don't withhold love.
Speaker 4: But when my kids being.
Speaker 2: A colossal ahil ahle, how.
Speaker 3: Does it make holding love though?
Speaker 1: Like being a punishing I would say, and and withholding
Speaker 1: love for two different things? N that.
Speaker 4: But see, this is what I'm saying the way these
Speaker 4: articles get written, as a guy who's read them for
Speaker 4: the entire time my kids has been around, is that
Speaker 4: it messes with your head when I think you're a
Speaker 4: parent who has good intentions.
Speaker 2: Like they don't they don't express until the very end.
Speaker 2: They have this buried thing and.
Speaker 4: Like the emotional like we talked, there's another segment, but
Speaker 4: talking about emotional parentification right where a kid is now,
Speaker 4: you give kids responsibilities and that's that's not Maybe that's
Speaker 4: not a good thing, and I think that's garbage.
Speaker 2: If you're emotionally codependent on your kid, yes, that's garbage.
Speaker 4: But to say things like if you find yourself criticizing
Speaker 4: them more than anything.
Speaker 2: But sure that.
Speaker 4: But if I my kid's just having a bad couple months,
Speaker 4: it's not helping him for me to blow sunshine up
Speaker 4: his ass.
Speaker 2: Like what does that do any good for? Well?
Speaker 5: And I think that is the balance That is not
Speaker 5: necessarily the root of parenting, but it is is a
Speaker 5: challenging part of parenting is figuring out, Okay, I have
Speaker 5: to be able to when they exhibit bad behavior, I
Speaker 5: have to be able to punish them, Yes, but they
Speaker 5: also have to know at the end of that that
Speaker 5: I still love them.
Speaker 3: I'm doing it because I love them, right, And.
Speaker 5: That I think is one of the struggles that people
Speaker 5: have is like, well, if I come down, if I
Speaker 5: ground my kid for doing something stupid, or if I
Speaker 5: punish them for this, They're going to think I don't
Speaker 5: love them, and.
Speaker 2: I don't They couldn't be further from the truth.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, yes, but you're also trying to put it.
Speaker 5: I mean, you as an adult know that, but then
Speaker 5: you're trying to put it through the math of what
Speaker 5: a nine year old thinks or a fourteen year old things,
Speaker 5: and it doesn't work that way. Like you have to
Speaker 5: sit comfortably in the fact that if you constantly show
Speaker 5: them that you love them in other ways, then the
Speaker 5: punishment might actually mean more and the punishment might actually
Speaker 5: take hold.
Speaker 1: How often do kids act out to get love in
Speaker 1: the form of punishment, right, Yeah, Like I need attention.
Speaker 1: I'm going to lash out because I'm not feeling the
Speaker 1: love or whatever. I'm not feeling neglected or what have you,
Speaker 1: And so you lash out to get that kind of punishment,
Speaker 1: because that's a way. I mean, I think that that's
Speaker 1: kids don't know their brains are working that way, but
Speaker 1: I think it's death.
Speaker 3: We've seen that countless times.
Speaker 4: I guess maybe what I should be saying is that
Speaker 4: if whatever it is that you're doing right doesn't seem
Speaker 4: to be having any kind of a result, then maybe
Speaker 4: take a moment to go is there maybe a better way,
Speaker 4: but not to immediately also bail on it. Like there's
Speaker 4: so much to be said about just maintaining consistency.
Speaker 3: When do you hit the kids.
Speaker 4: Honestly, when I think it's a last resort to be
Speaker 4: If I'm being honest, I know you're maybe probably kind
Speaker 4: of joking, But like I, I don't know. I've only
Speaker 4: hit each of my kids once and it genuinely didn't work.
Speaker 4: Like it just it more upset them than it did
Speaker 4: got their attention. But when my dad told me the story,
Speaker 4: I was like two, and I guess I or one
Speaker 4: and have two. I bit a kid on the cheek.
Speaker 4: My dad, without thinking about it, just reached out and
Speaker 4: thumped me in the head.
Speaker 2: And he told me the story. He goes because he
Speaker 2: used to thump me on the head, knuckle me on
Speaker 2: the head. That was my entire life.
Speaker 4: And everybody told us, she's like, geez, your dad really
Speaker 4: was abusive to you, But he told me.
Speaker 3: I thought it was sweet abuse.
Speaker 4: He told me the story, and he goes, I thumped
Speaker 4: you in the head. You immediately let.
Speaker 3: Go of the kid, freaking Hannibal. What was he supposed
Speaker 3: to do?
Speaker 4: I said, you let go of the kid, You turn
Speaker 4: around and you made direct eye contact.
Speaker 2: And my dad said and goes, That's when I knew
Speaker 2: that was your thing.
Speaker 3: It's like, you gotta figure out what it is that
Speaker 3: works on your kid, correct.
Speaker 4: And this I just my thing is I just don't
Speaker 4: want people beating themselves up because they're hard on their kids,
Speaker 4: because I don't think that's the problem that parents have
Speaker 4: right now.
Speaker 2: That's not the focus. Is being too hard on your
Speaker 2: kids probably shouldn't be your worry.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, and there will be people who say, I mean,
Speaker 5: there are abusive parents out there, and that yes, that
Speaker 5: there always have been and unfortunately there always will be. Correct,
Speaker 5: it's just a matter of what you do with it
Speaker 5: when you when you're when you're raised in that and
Speaker 5: then are around other people for a lot of I mean,
Speaker 5: like I talk about this many times. My eye opening
Speaker 5: days were the first few months that I was in
Speaker 5: college because I was around people who weren't like me.
Speaker 5: They didn't grow up like me. They didn't grow up
Speaker 5: in the same house like I did. They didn't grow
Speaker 5: up in the same part of the state that I did.
Speaker 5: That was eye opening for me that there were other
Speaker 5: people in this world. And there's a point where and
Speaker 5: if you grow up in an abusive house, you may
Speaker 5: not know that it's an abusive house until you're around
Speaker 5: enough other people who can confirm for you your suspicions.
Speaker 5: That's not the way it's supposed to be. It's then
Speaker 5: that you have to make the decision. Okay, which path
Speaker 5: am I going to choose? I know what didn't work
Speaker 5: for me, I know what was wrong with my upbringing.
Speaker 5: How do I change it and make sure it doesn't
Speaker 5: happen to my kids? If you're even conscious of it,
Speaker 5: if you're able to make such a mature decision like
Speaker 5: that at some point in your life, and if you're
Speaker 5: sitting at home and you're that stressed or worried about it,
Speaker 5: maybe get some therapy and go see a couple therapists
Speaker 5: to get at least a second opinion, like to see
Speaker 5: what their thought is. Because I venture a guest that
Speaker 5: probably eighty to ninety percent of the people who are
Speaker 5: out there, like we talked about to start. The other
Speaker 5: segment that are worried about this probably don't need to
Speaker 5: be worried about it, but you can get somebody else
Speaker 5: who's an expert and can weigh in and tell you, no,
Speaker 5: that's emotionally abusive. Like what I learned from my therapist
Speaker 5: was my family did not have boundaries. We talked about
Speaker 5: something nobody should ever talk about.
Speaker 4: I know, right, it's weird and so, but it's I'm
Speaker 4: totally emotionally like grounded.
Speaker 2: I don't overshare myself at all. I find that that.
Speaker 3: May be why you're so easy to talk to.
Speaker 1: It be around it is because yes, you know, you
Speaker 1: didn't have boundaries.
Speaker 3: There's a reason for everything.
Speaker 2: Personally I've chosen. I genuinely I like it.
Speaker 4: I like it that people laugh at me about I
Speaker 4: know so much about my parents sex life that people
Speaker 4: should not know. And I gotta go.
Speaker 2: We'll talk more about it when we come back. Is
Speaker 2: that swamp watches my parents?
Speaker 3: How granular are we talking about?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Very? Oh yeah, I'll tell you one thing off the air,
Speaker 2: all right?
Speaker 3: Is it something you've told your therapist already.
Speaker 2: Uh not, Yes, this is the thing I'm going to
Speaker 2: tell you is the thing?
Speaker 5: Yeah, all right, we'll see you next week. Maybe Gary
Speaker 5: and Shannon will continue right after this