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Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, This is Christina from the feature. Because we

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recorded this in the past. As I said last week,

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this was supposed to be together with last week's episode,

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but we split it up in order to give ourselves

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time to get back into researching and recording after we

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went to Guadalajara to go see our Agilita and celebrate

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her birthday with our entire family. So that is why

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we split last week's episode. Also, at some point in

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the episode, you hear me say American Pie by Tom

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Petty instead of American Girl by Tom Petty, and I

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met American girl, not American Pie. I know that's not

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a song. All right, enjoy the episode and we'll be

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back next week. Hi, this is Christina and Carmen and

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this is another episode of Speaky Tales podcast for all

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things Espoogye, Andre, Grime, and America. Before I start the case,

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just trigger warning for rape that is part of this

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and also involves a minor And with that, feel free

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to skip to speak your recommendations so we don't want

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to hear that. But today I'm sharing the case of

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Abby at Nandez. So in twenty thirteen, just before turning

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fifteen high school freshman, Abby was walking home from school

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when she vanished, and like, no one knew what happened

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to her. So she grew up with her mom and

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sister in north Conway, New Hampshire. She grew up with

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her mom and sister in north Conway, New Hampshire. It's

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a small toursy town, considered super safe. In fact, the

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whole state is in the list as one of the

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safest states in the US. Wow, back then it was true.

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Today it's still up there in those like statistics. So yeah,

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people moved there because it's considered safe. That's probably one

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of the reasons why Senya at Nandez Abby's mom moved

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there after her divorce, because now she's a single working parent.

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She's got two daughters to raise, right Yeah, and she

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worked long hours as a nurse, so this seemed like

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the perfect place to raise Abbi and Sarah. And Abby

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was considered a very nice teen, always positive, always very

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friendly with everyone. She talked to everyone as if they

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were friends with her already. She studied German and robotics

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as a freshman, which is crazy to me. Robotics, that's wild. Yeah.

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She was super athletic, into sports and she had a

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boyfriend Jimmy. They loved each other as much as high

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school sweethearts, can you know. Yeah, And things were great

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for her and her family until October nine, twenty thirteen.

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Abby had not arrived home from school yet, and Senya,

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her mom, started getting worried. But she was like, you

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know what, maybe she's with friends at school still, So

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she drove up there to look for her. But when

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she got there, the librarian told her that she had

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already left. She saw Abby leaving, so now she's even

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more worried. She gets back home, i'd be still not there.

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She then calls the hospital, the local hospital, to see

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if she checked in there, and maybe she got her

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on the way home, and she's just there. She hasn't

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checked in, but no, she's not there either. Finally, at

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seven pm that night, it was too long for her,

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and Senya went to file a missing person's report. And

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she did not for one second think that Abby ran away.

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It wasn't like her. Plus, they were getting ready to

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celebrate her fifteenth birthday in like four days, so it

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just didn't seem like she would run away at all.

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And luckily, the search did happen very quickly. Local police

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and FBI got involved fast. They went door to door

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looking for her, and again she disappeared three days before

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before her fifteenth birthday party. So instead of holding a

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party for her, the party that they were already planning,

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they ended up doing a vigil for her. A lot

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of people attended in the community. Oh my god, that's

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so sad it is. Can you imagine? It's terrible? And

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just within weeks there were over five hundred tips called

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into the hotline that investigators had set up, but there

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were no concrete leads at all, and all they had

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is the following information. Abby left school at two twenty

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nine pm. She walked through the field hockey Field, down

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Eagle's Way and into a power line trail near the school.

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She was seen on that power trail power line trail

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between two thirty and two thirty five pm. She sent Jimmy,

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her boyfriend, a heart emoji at two fifty three pm

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as she walked, and he was on the bus. Fifteen

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ish minutes later, at three oh seven, her phone signal

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disappears a lost signal at the cell tower on the

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west side of Cranmore Mountain. And that's all they had

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to go on, like nothing else but they believe that

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that window of time between two fifty three and three

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oh seven is where something went wrong, something happened to her.

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They didn't treat this like, oh no, she just went missing. Immediately,

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they were like, she was probably taken. So, you know,

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they did their jobs, because there's so many of these

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cases where they're like, ah, she ran away, and they

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don't do their jobs. But here they led into action,

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which Sily is like rare. Yeah. So they started questioning

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family and friends, which didn't give them leads. It just

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showed them how close she was to everyone. And one

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month went by, still nothing the media on her. The

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reporting started dying down. Meanwhile, her mom and sister fell

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into despair, still looking for her, putting up signs everywhere.

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They're still going door to door and all this chaos

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of trying to find her, Senya ignore daily tasks and

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things were piling up in the house, including the mail,

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because that's just like one of the last things you open,

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I feel, yeah, even like on a regular name, you know, imagine, Yeah,

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on top of that, dealing with your daughter being missing,

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like exactly the last function amount. Yeah. Yeah, So she

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went for she went weeks without checking her mail, and

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her pile grew larger, and in that pile there was

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a letter from Abby. What Yeah. The letter read the following,

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Dear Mom, I miss you and I love you so

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much more than you could imagine. I'm sorry I did this.

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I've seen the newspapers and TV news, and to answer

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your questions, yes, I'm alive, I'm safe, and I'm healthy.

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I really miss you, mom, but I won't tell you

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where I am. I love you so much. Please stay

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strong for me. I'm staying strong for you. I've come

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to realize that, along with love and courage, hope can

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speak louder than fear. Please don't lose hope. Hang in

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there for me. Mom. I had a dream where I

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came home and I gave you the biggest hug ever.

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I don't know if it matters, but I like to

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think that it does. Please don't forget that I love you.

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Please give Sarah a big hug for me, and tell

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her that I love and miss her so much. I

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pray that all your hopes and dreams come true. Love Abby,

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Oh my god? And what this really her? That was

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the question of the hour? Really. The letter was postmarked

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October twelfth, twenty thirteen, and again she wasn't missing October ninth, okay,

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but Senya Hernandez her mom didn't see it until November

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six wow, because again her mail was piling up. Yeah.

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When she first saw the letter and it said dear mom,

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she was excited because she's like, oh, it'll lead us

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to her or something, you know. But after she read it,

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it felt wrong. She's like, yeah, this is her handwriting,

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but doesn't feel like anything she would ever say. She's

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been forced to say something maybe mm hmmm. Yeah, and

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she didn't think first. She was like, yes, it's her handwriting,

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but I don't think these are her words, Like it

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sounds like someone else is saying this. And Sanya handed

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this over to investigators who confirmed by DNA on left

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on the paper that it did belong to Abby, So

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she did write the letter, and they held on to

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the letter, having possession of the letter for a month

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before giving this to the media, like telling them, yeah,

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we received the letter, because you know, big cases like this,

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I have to like keep people updated. So they held

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onto the information for one month because they were worried

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that if this was a letter by her and she

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sent it a secret from whoever was keeping her. If

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they gave out the information that they received the letter

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for her from her, it could put her in danger.

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So they didn't say anything for one month. Then they

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finally did report this and I when I read this,

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so the media then reporters they all were like, well

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news ankers and like all those places, They're like, well,

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this is is this even a missing person's case? Was

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she even taken? Or is this a runaway And despite

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investigators confirming there belief that they are treating this as

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someone who was abducted, not a runaway case, media and

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local residents started turning their turning on the family. Oh wow,

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they were angry and they believed that the letter was

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a confession from a runaway teen girl. Okay, but also

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like why get angry about that? If this isn't a

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runaway girl, then clearly like something is going on in

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the home that she's running away from. So if that

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was the case, like I would still feel concerned for

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this team, you know what I mean, even if it's like,

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oh I don't want to follow the rules or okay, well,

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how can we work with this family to for them

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to live with each other? Because anytime, even if it's

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a teen running away. Like that's sad still, you know,

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like that's still concerned, right, But people don't. People They

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think like teenagers are adults, you know. Yeah, No, they're little.

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They're babies in them in the scheme of a lifetime

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of a person, Yeah, you're a baby, Like, yeah, you're

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a baby until you're thirty, you know. I'm so you're

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a baby. You're still baby. We're babies. Yeah. So yeah,

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people were angry and they were like, she's wasting time

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and resources because this was treated like a kidnap victim

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when she's clearly a runaway. Yeah, and people were calling

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for the family to pay back the money that the

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Conway Police Department and the FBI spent, Like this kid

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who fucking hooh bitch. I hate when they do that shit.

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That reminds me of that other case where people were

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accusing I don't remember names as always, but they were

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accusing the They were accusing the victim who was kidnapped.

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Basically it was a woman. It was an adult woman,

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but she was kidnapped with her husband. Well, they somebody

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broke into their apartment. They held them a hostage or whatever,

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they taped them up, couldn'tain anything, and then they left

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him tied up, and then they took her and then

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they blamed him for it. Yeah, so they first they

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thought it was him, even though he had nothing to

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do with it. And then when she came back, they

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accused her of faking the whole thing, like gone Girl,

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because Gone Girl had just come out. Yeah, and I'm like,

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these people have been traumatized and you're over here, and

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even and the police, the law enforcement came out and

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they're like, she owes us money this and that. I'm like,

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who fucking cares? Like, I don't care how much money

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is to waste it on them anyway. Yeah, if anything, like,

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you should be doing this for free, if anything, you

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should come out directly out of your patrick because it

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doesn't exactly. So, Yeah, people were calling for that, for

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that money to be give back, and that is so

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much of books for real. I can't believe that. No,

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And even in the midst of all this hatred, they

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were suddenly getting online. They did not waiver in their

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belief that she was being health captive and she needed

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to be rescued. And they were right. This was supposed

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to be their community, and they were online saying shit

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like sounds like a runaway punk this. Okay, this has

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been fishy from the beginning. Oh I can't stand people. Yeah,

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even rumors in her former school started to spread. Kids

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were saying that she ran away because she was pregnant,

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and her sister and bff her Bessie went to the

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school and they were appalled at the rumors. Oh my god,

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I would started throwing hands at the school and yeah,

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I'm gott in so much trouble because every day it

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would have been fisty cuffs. I would fighting like growing

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up because no, you're not going to say this ship

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while my sister is literally finding for her life somewhere,

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you know. Yeah, but that just goes to show like

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people love to gossip, and it's like this is why,

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like when something is announced that's something like this is happening,

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Like I don't go online saying oh this probably happened,

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Oh this probably happened, like it's it's messed up. Yeah.

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They people engage with these kind of extremely sensitive and

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difficult topics. They engage with them like they're like they're

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like a circus show. I'm nicking of the when the

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emberor heard and not to bring everything back to emberhard.

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But we always talking about But yeah, I think of

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the how people were acting during the Ember Herd and

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johny Depp trial, and I remember when it is over

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and Billy Saria and caught a lot of flak rightfully

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so about her saying like, oh what what am I

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going to watch now? Like and uh, somebody I remember

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at work they were talking about this too, like it

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was like entertainment. And I'm like, these are people's lives

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where toxicity, dysfunction, and abuse took place. Yeah, when they don't,

237
00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,799
it sounds like we're reaching a little bit because at

238
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the end of the day, we do talk about your crime.

239
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But I feel like we're sharing either cases where there's

240
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like injustices, like you know when we talked about the

241
00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,200
activist in Mexico or here. I think by the end

242
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,840
of it, you'll see why this case is like so

243
00:13:30,879 --> 00:13:35,200
important to learn about. Yeah, and not everyone is doing that.

244
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,440
But again, like you know, you're free to consume whatever

245
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you want, right, I'm like, go ahead, Yeah, I feel

246
00:13:41,639 --> 00:13:44,279
like to listen to an episode on something is not

247
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,639
the same thing as tuning into a trial every day

248
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,879
at eating popcorn while you're watching the trial. Yeah, like

249
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,200
while it's actively going on, treating it like it's a

250
00:13:54,279 --> 00:13:59,399
fictional movie. You know, that is weird ass behavior. Yeah,

251
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,559
that is weird to me too. But if you know,

252
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,440
if that's your thing, maybe just don't be public about it,

253
00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:10,159
or maybe just don't know really truly. So again, luckily

254
00:14:10,639 --> 00:14:14,960
this time around for Abby's case, law enforcement was more

255
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,919
than incompetent, because again we do see cases where they're

256
00:14:17,919 --> 00:14:21,200
not they're doing the opposite of working there, I don't know,

257
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,639
doing nothing. So here they were like, no, the public

258
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:30,519
is wrong here. We know Abby didn't run away, and

259
00:14:30,559 --> 00:14:32,519
they were like, she didn't take anything with her when

260
00:14:32,519 --> 00:14:35,120
she went missing. All she had was your school backpack,

261
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,039
Like and it was just her school backpack. She didn't

262
00:14:37,039 --> 00:14:39,360
have clothes in there, Like, this isn't a runaway, yeah,

263
00:14:39,919 --> 00:14:43,120
because runaways take things with them, like usually right, they'll have,

264
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,159
you know, change of clothes, something. She had nothing with

265
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,919
her and nothing poigned to this. So they're like, no,

266
00:14:50,039 --> 00:14:52,399
this is a clear case of abduction, and they continue

267
00:14:52,399 --> 00:14:55,519
to treat it that way, and that is excellent because

268
00:14:55,519 --> 00:14:58,000
again it's not always the case. But sadly, even though

269
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,399
they're working hard, they're not getting any nine months go by,

270
00:15:01,759 --> 00:15:05,279
the case is cold. They have no idea where to

271
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:11,240
move from here until July twenty, twenty fourteen, when Abby

272
00:15:11,519 --> 00:15:14,799
walked home, opened the door to her house and said, mom,

273
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,320
and she was like, Abby, do what this is? Like

274
00:15:18,519 --> 00:15:21,039
the case I was talking about? I know, let me

275
00:15:21,039 --> 00:15:24,720
ask how people reacted when she came back. Actually, no,

276
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,600
oh okay, it was good. It was good. So she

277
00:15:27,759 --> 00:15:30,679
was like Abby, asking, like, is that really her? There's

278
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,559
no way. But then they run to each other. They

279
00:15:32,679 --> 00:15:36,519
hug each other for like the longest times. It's beautiful.

280
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,080
But like, what happened? Yeah? Has she Yeah, I'm gonna

281
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,039
tell you right now. So that day, on October ninth,

282
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,320
twenty thirteen, Abby decided to walk home instead of taking

283
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,120
the bus, which is normal. Sometimes she walked, sometimes she

284
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,480
took the bus. It was not abnormal for her to

285
00:15:52,559 --> 00:15:55,720
choose to walk instead. She did either or on whatever

286
00:15:55,759 --> 00:15:58,960
a randy given day. Yes, and she had been wearing

287
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,120
a brand new pair of boot that was an early

288
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,960
birthday present to her. And yeah, why not walk in

289
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,879
her walking boots? You know, boots were made for walking. Yeah,

290
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,000
I was just gonna see that, I know. But the

291
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,519
boots were not broken. In yet and so as she walked,

292
00:16:12,519 --> 00:16:16,320
her feet were really hurting and blistering, and she was like,

293
00:16:16,399 --> 00:16:20,080
I hope they were in Doc Martins. I know you

294
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,799
suffered through those. Let me just go on a real

295
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:27,799
side journey about how my feet or tore the fuck

296
00:16:27,879 --> 00:16:30,159
up by a pair of Doc Martins. And I love

297
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,120
these shoes, Okay, their platform I think they're called the

298
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:39,559
jade platforms. Maybe burgundy color. Beautiful, beautiful shoes, beautiful. Anyway,

299
00:16:39,639 --> 00:16:42,399
I made the mistake runing into a concert and I

300
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:43,440
was like, well, I am I going to be walking.

301
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,080
I'm just going to stand there, but I'd take into

302
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,399
consideration that parking would be for and like walking the

303
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,279
stairs and all that. Right, I was just like standing

304
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,240
is tiring on the feet too, Yeah, yeah, yeah, true.

305
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:56,559
I didn't think about any of that. I just thought

306
00:16:56,559 --> 00:17:00,639
about my outfit. And I was wearing black highway pants

307
00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:03,480
and it's like cute, like burgundy, like lace, like crop

308
00:17:03,559 --> 00:17:08,200
top type of situation with my matching shoes oversa damn jacket. Cute, right,

309
00:17:08,279 --> 00:17:12,079
sounds cute. And my friend sees me, she's like, are

310
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:13,839
you sure you're rained? Like you want to wear the shoes,

311
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:15,960
And I was like yeah, She's like seriously, And I

312
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:21,599
was like, yeah and whatever. Getting there wasn't bad, but

313
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:27,119
then walking out, it was raining so stormy actually, and

314
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,599
so my socks got wet and I think it was

315
00:17:29,599 --> 00:17:32,599
like the friction of my wet sauce against the boot

316
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,680
scraping the back of my foot. I don't know what

317
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,680
you call that, but disgusting and truly disgusting. When I

318
00:17:39,799 --> 00:17:42,880
finally took my socks off, painful as hell. I couldn't

319
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,400
even take a step without feeling like my the cut

320
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:48,599
blisters I had, I couldn't take a step with that

321
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,960
feeling like it was opening. Yeah. And then let me

322
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,799
tell you, oh, go on, Oh, I should say I

323
00:17:53,799 --> 00:17:57,759
couldn't walk because of the disgusting feeling. I couldn't wear shoes. Yeah,

324
00:17:57,839 --> 00:18:01,759
And so I was like, I'm walking from home. I

325
00:18:01,799 --> 00:18:04,279
wore my slippers to the office just to get my stuff,

326
00:18:04,319 --> 00:18:05,680
and then I was like, I'm not coming in until

327
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,200
I can't wear shoes again. No, I don't blame you.

328
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,240
I've seen some nasty blisters as a as a former

329
00:18:12,279 --> 00:18:14,519
medic in the army. Oh, I'm sure it was one

330
00:18:14,559 --> 00:18:17,160
of the things that fucked people up the most, especially

331
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,759
these long Assbrooke marches, I saw some wizzies. They are

332
00:18:20,839 --> 00:18:24,000
no joke, like they really aren't. Blisters, literally are no joke,

333
00:18:24,079 --> 00:18:26,759
like I would I completely understand that. She did not

334
00:18:27,079 --> 00:18:31,680
want to walk anymore, so her feet were getting destroyed

335
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,880
by these new boots. They weren't broken again. So when

336
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,960
a car pulled over asking if she wanted to ride,

337
00:18:38,079 --> 00:18:42,480
oh no, she agreed because of her blisters. Plus she thought,

338
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,920
this is literally such a safe city. It's nothing happens here.

339
00:18:47,559 --> 00:18:51,599
The person seemed nice. Everyone was so nice in Conway,

340
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,720
you know. So she was like, yeah, I would like

341
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,599
a ride, and so as they drove, then she started

342
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,079
getting like an uneasy feeling. So she didn't tell the

343
00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,119
man her address and asked if he could drop her

344
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,799
off at a nearby restaurant. Smart yeah, but then he

345
00:19:06,839 --> 00:19:08,319
was like, no, I need to make a step first,

346
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,279
and then he went to a home depot. She was like, actually,

347
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,359
I can walk from here. I'm not far from here.

348
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,319
She was not close to her house anymore. But she's like, no,

349
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:19,559
I need to get out right, And so she was like,

350
00:19:19,599 --> 00:19:21,240
I'm just going to go home from here, like I'll

351
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,440
get out here, no worry, Like thanks for the ride.

352
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,759
But when she said this, he pulled out a gun. No,

353
00:19:27,599 --> 00:19:30,519
oh my god. Yeah, and he told her if you

354
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,119
try to scream or to try to escape, or make

355
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,759
any effort to escape, there will be consequences. And he

356
00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:39,960
told her he could blow her brains down right now

357
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,359
if he wanted, or he could slit her throat if

358
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,559
he wanted to. Then he grabbed a baseball hat that

359
00:19:44,599 --> 00:19:46,119
he had, he put it on her. He put a

360
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,799
jacket on her to like disguise her, and he handcuffed her.

361
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:53,359
All of this, he was just strolling for a victim.

362
00:19:53,599 --> 00:19:56,480
It seems that way, like he was ready. Yeah, And

363
00:19:56,519 --> 00:19:58,319
then he told her bear with me. I'm having a

364
00:19:58,319 --> 00:20:01,119
hard time in my life. I mean, these kind of

365
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:05,359
things happen. There's like a trigger. Yeah. Yeah. So she

366
00:20:06,039 --> 00:20:08,880
told him she didn't judge him for what he was

367
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,160
doing because she realized, like, I need to get him

368
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,000
to trust me if I want to stay alive. God,

369
00:20:14,079 --> 00:20:19,440
imagine that intuition and the smart Yeah. Yeah. She was

370
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,920
also hoping her phone was being tracked at this point

371
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:23,440
because she still had it on her, but then he

372
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,880
took it and broke it. So this is where they

373
00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:31,400
lost signal. This is where that happened, and he drove

374
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,279
on and she had her head down the whole time

375
00:20:34,319 --> 00:20:36,079
because he had a gun like pointed to her the

376
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,519
whole time. As he drove. She would occasionally try and

377
00:20:38,519 --> 00:20:40,480
peek out the window and she could see they were

378
00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:43,079
leaving Conway and heading into the mountains. And she could

379
00:20:43,079 --> 00:20:45,359
tell he was a winning traffic lights because they have

380
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,839
cameras on them. So he took these back roads into

381
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,400
this rural wooded area thirty miles north of Conway to

382
00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:56,119
his home. And in the home she recalls passing by

383
00:20:56,319 --> 00:20:59,680
like these don't tread on me flags? Oh my god,

384
00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:03,079
of course, right, always one of them, you know what

385
00:21:03,079 --> 00:21:05,279
I mean? No, because yeah, he put her in a

386
00:21:05,319 --> 00:21:08,400
small storage shed on his property, which was a mobile

387
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,759
home and I can't get over that. Don't try it

388
00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:13,319
on me, but I'll tread all over your rights. Oh yeah,

389
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,160
that's going to train on you as a human being. Yeah.

390
00:21:16,599 --> 00:21:19,559
Of course. He had a mobile home on a property

391
00:21:19,759 --> 00:21:23,680
that was four Brookside Drive in Gorham, New Hampshire, and

392
00:21:23,759 --> 00:21:26,720
all over there were American flags, guns. He even had

393
00:21:26,759 --> 00:21:29,119
a framed copy of the US Constitution on the wall.

394
00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:33,160
What the fuck the hypocrisy? Like, yeah, these people are deranged,

395
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,039
that's why. No, truly, when he put her in the shed,

396
00:21:37,079 --> 00:21:38,880
he put a T shirt on her head and then

397
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,200
a motorcycle helmet over her over the T shirt like

398
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,880
that shit is socifocating. This is horrible what he did

399
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,960
after this, he put the T shirt on her head,

400
00:21:49,519 --> 00:21:52,119
then the more cycle over her head, and then tied

401
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,960
her up and then he proceeded to rape her after this,

402
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,440
and then he just left her in the shed. Hours later,

403
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,640
he came back to show her media footage, so like

404
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,279
that night, because there was already a report that she's missing,

405
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,000
so he showed her the media footage of that people

406
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:11,119
were looking for her, and then he left. And then

407
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,480
some days past he came back to the shed and

408
00:22:13,519 --> 00:22:15,759
told her to write a letter to her mom, telling

409
00:22:15,799 --> 00:22:17,440
her she was okay and not to worry. And she

410
00:22:17,519 --> 00:22:21,319
did write a letter. And she used this opportunity to

411
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,480
write a letter to write or to use her nail

412
00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:28,640
to dig out the words like help, hoping he wouldn't

413
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,319
find it, which is smart. But then he did find it,

414
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,960
and he came back, used the sun gun on her

415
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,680
and raped her again. Then he had to write another letter,

416
00:22:38,839 --> 00:22:41,160
and this is the one that her mom did receive.

417
00:22:41,599 --> 00:22:43,519
So yeah, they were all they were right all along

418
00:22:43,559 --> 00:22:46,119
she was being forced to write this letter. Yeah, and

419
00:22:46,279 --> 00:22:48,480
you know, the days went by, she prayed every day,

420
00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:51,799
putting up with more assaults and torture from her abuser.

421
00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:54,960
As more time passes, Abby keeps trying to gain his

422
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,839
trust and learn more about her captor. Eventually he starts

423
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,799
slating her read books that he owned, and he gives

424
00:23:00,839 --> 00:23:03,960
her a copy of a cookbook and this is where

425
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,680
she saw his name from the first time, because it

426
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,640
was written in the cookbook. And so before this he

427
00:23:08,759 --> 00:23:12,400
was like, call me master. I'm telling you, Yes, these

428
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:18,480
people are deranged. Yeah, Like, is the connection between the

429
00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:22,759
kind of beliefs he had and behavior like this? It's

430
00:23:22,839 --> 00:23:26,000
just it's it should be studied. It has been studied,

431
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,240
you right, Like, of course, someone who has these beliefs,

432
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,440
who believes women are second class citizens, it's not a

433
00:23:35,519 --> 00:23:40,240
leap to then go out and abduct a teenager, sexually

434
00:23:40,279 --> 00:23:42,240
assault her and rape her and then be like call

435
00:23:42,319 --> 00:23:45,960
me master, Like that's why feminism is important, That's what No,

436
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,200
And it all comes back to on little things, little jokes,

437
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,240
little you know, it's humanization. It leads to this but

438
00:23:53,279 --> 00:23:55,559
people always want to excuse it and like, oh, it's

439
00:23:55,599 --> 00:23:58,880
just a joke, Like, no, bitch, it's serious. Completely. And

440
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,039
during her time captivity, something else happened where police ended

441
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,240
up feet away from the ship. She was being kept up,

442
00:24:05,519 --> 00:24:07,599
but she didn't know it. They didn't know it. Nobody

443
00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:10,680
looked for her there because there was a whole different situation.

444
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,920
During a car accident, Nate Kibbie followed a woman home,

445
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,000
like there was a minor car accident, right the person

446
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,119
that hit him or he hit her, it just not clear.

447
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,720
What happened was a woman. He followed that woman to

448
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:25,079
her house, trespassed into her property, and then he was

449
00:24:25,079 --> 00:24:27,440
in her driveway taking pictures of her car. Of course

450
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,480
he did that because he's deranged. Yeah, And when she

451
00:24:30,519 --> 00:24:34,119
told them to stop, he got all confrontrational and pushed

452
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,519
her to the ground and police arrived within minutes. He

453
00:24:36,599 --> 00:24:39,960
was arrested. During this, police took his gun, and part

454
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,039
of his parole deal to be able to like not

455
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,319
go to jail for this basically was for him to

456
00:24:45,319 --> 00:24:48,359
hand over his weapons collection. So police went to his

457
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,519
property to take all his weapons, and when they arrived,

458
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,680
it was very strange to them that he was like

459
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,799
they expected like a firefight for this because he's like

460
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,559
my second Amendment. He's one of those people, right, But

461
00:25:00,599 --> 00:25:03,279
when they arrived, there was no fight. He was eager

462
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,880
to give them his weapons to get them to leave. Yeah,

463
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,920
he had them laid out in the front like all

464
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,319
ready to go, all the paperwork, like here's this one

465
00:25:11,319 --> 00:25:15,480
and this one already like so that they wouldn't inspect anything.

466
00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:18,839
I'm surprised the search isn't an aspect of this. Yeah,

467
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,960
I'm surprised they were in like not that I'm calling

468
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:24,960
for more right, for the police to be able to

469
00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:28,680
do more things. It's it's a it's a slippery slope,

470
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,200
it is, it is. Yeah, but yeah, I know they

471
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,799
he grabbed his weapons and left, and it's just it's

472
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,519
it's wild to think that she was right there and yeah,

473
00:25:38,599 --> 00:25:41,359
they didn't know. You know, so time goes by. She

474
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,000
doesn't know how much time passes. Every day she thinks,

475
00:25:44,039 --> 00:25:47,559
this is the damn going to die on. I want

476
00:25:47,559 --> 00:25:50,200
to escape, like you know, things like that. She's worried

477
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,799
about her family, if they'll ever see her, if she'll

478
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:55,799
ever see them, if she'll ever be free again. Yeah,

479
00:25:56,559 --> 00:25:58,799
Nate Kibbie kept her ganged at all times, and he

480
00:25:58,799 --> 00:26:01,000
would play loud metal meuse so no one could hear

481
00:26:01,039 --> 00:26:03,680
her even if she screamed wow. Eventually he was like,

482
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,119
all right, this is like a little much, and he

483
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,200
took out the gag and instead he was like, this

484
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:12,200
is a shot collar. Here's this shot collar. Put it on,

485
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,640
and then he told her to scream so she could

486
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,440
so that she would know the feeling of being shocked

487
00:26:17,519 --> 00:26:20,640
if she screamed that day that he A little bit

488
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,519
after he gave her the shot collar, he told her

489
00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:25,400
they needed to leave because she the police knew too much.

490
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,720
She knew too much, so he about him and she

491
00:26:28,759 --> 00:26:31,279
He put her in her trunk and he drove away.

492
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,880
And it seemed like ours to try and keep track

493
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,680
of what was happening. How long it had been she played.

494
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,319
She played American Pie in her head over and over

495
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,880
again because she loved Tom Petty and so she knew

496
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,759
that song and how long it was. I didn't know

497
00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:48,039
that song, oh, taking that movie. The only Tom Putting

498
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,079
song I know is the free Falling one. Free falling. Yeah.

499
00:26:51,319 --> 00:26:53,319
Little did she know he was driving in circles and

500
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,319
he went right back on to his property. She didn't

501
00:26:56,319 --> 00:26:58,920
take her anywhere, what the hell? Yeah, probably just to

502
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,039
keep her on her toes. Yeah. He put her in

503
00:27:02,079 --> 00:27:05,200
a different room, still inside the shed, and he told

504
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,160
her this door is made to catch on fire if

505
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,720
it's busted open. Oh my god, to scare her. There

506
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,680
never was. Yeah, But from this point on she got

507
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,319
to know him more, gain his trust more, and he

508
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,519
told her about his marijuana business, his dislike of the police.

509
00:27:19,799 --> 00:27:21,480
When he would tied her up, he would be he

510
00:27:21,519 --> 00:27:22,920
would be like, I only know how to tie you

511
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,960
up like this because it's what they did to us.

512
00:27:25,519 --> 00:27:27,319
Turns out they are the police. And he had a

513
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,160
history of being out of prison starting from his teens.

514
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,039
His adult criminal records starts at eighteen with an assault. Wow.

515
00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:37,400
Again not really surprising. Yeah. So she would listen and

516
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,000
when he would talk and say all these stories and

517
00:27:40,079 --> 00:27:42,400
just he would go along with whatever he says. She's like,

518
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,319
he needs to think I'm on his side. Yeah, for

519
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,480
me to be let go one day. And so she

520
00:27:46,519 --> 00:27:49,000
even got involved in his counterfeiting money operations. She would

521
00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:51,359
help him with that. He told her that he was

522
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,640
going to start doing this and that he could do

523
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,079
this because of all the money they had taken from him,

524
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,200
it wasn't wrong for him to start printing fake money,

525
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,720
and she helped him with this endeavor. And after he

526
00:28:01,799 --> 00:28:05,359
started this fake counterfeit business, he was also apparently dating

527
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,599
on the side or something, because he met a woman

528
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,519
named Lauren Munday and they met online. They met at

529
00:28:11,519 --> 00:28:14,759
a hotel. They had a normal date whatever normal date

530
00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:18,960
with Niate Kibby And how that tells yes, thank you,

531
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,359
that's the words I was looking for. They had a

532
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,440
good time together at this hotel. He offered to pay

533
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,480
for the hotel and he left her three fifty dollars

534
00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:27,799
bills and she tried to use one of them later

535
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,519
at like a store or something like that, and it

536
00:28:29,559 --> 00:28:33,240
was flagged as counterfeit and she was arrested. But then

537
00:28:33,279 --> 00:28:35,400
she told the police, well, this man that I went

538
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,640
on a date with gave me this bill. It's his

539
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,519
fake money, it's not mine. And so she was like oh,

540
00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:42,720
because of that. But then when she was like oh,

541
00:28:42,759 --> 00:28:45,160
she called Nick Kibby and told them, cussed him out

542
00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:47,240
and told them like you better watch out because they're

543
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,119
coming for you because I told them everything, this is

544
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,279
your fake money, not mine. How dare you send me

545
00:28:51,359 --> 00:28:53,839
up like this, things like that. And so right after

546
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,640
she hung up on him and cussed him out like that,

547
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,200
he went to Abby and told her I'm letting you go. Oh,

548
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,920
the police are coming for me. And she had no

549
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,279
idea why, but she didn't know this is what happened,

550
00:29:06,279 --> 00:29:08,680
that the fake money situation. But she went with him.

551
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,359
He drove her back to Conway, North Conway. They stopped

552
00:29:12,359 --> 00:29:16,640
at a dairy queen before and then he drove to

553
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,079
the same spot where he kidnapped her from and he

554
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,920
told her to get out, and then she slammed the

555
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,559
door and watched him as he the man that tortured

556
00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:31,519
her for months, drove away. What the hell? Then she

557
00:29:31,599 --> 00:29:36,720
walked home and before they left his house, he gave

558
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,799
her a fake story to give to law enforcement that

559
00:29:40,319 --> 00:29:42,279
she was told to say that he was an older

560
00:29:42,279 --> 00:29:44,599
man and he was going to kill everyone if she

561
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,799
said anything about him. And she believed this at first.

562
00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:51,680
Don't say anything, yes, of course, but then after a

563
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,359
week she was like, you know what, no, and she

564
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,920
told law enforcement everything, that he was nakeddie and all

565
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,640
this other thing, all these other things, and law enforcement

566
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,440
spent his home. They expected a firefight because by now

567
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,519
he had gotten his guns back, but no, he turned

568
00:30:05,559 --> 00:30:10,559
himself in and then during the trial he he was

569
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,480
charged with more things. But eventually he was able to

570
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,319
they were able to make a deal where he only

571
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,119
pled guilty to set down felony charges yeah, including felonist

572
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,720
aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping when it's tampering, and criminal threatening.

573
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,519
And at first it seems like unfair, like Abby and

574
00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:29,640
her family was like angry because this meant he was

575
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,279
given less of a sentence because it was not that

576
00:30:32,359 --> 00:30:34,359
many charges because at first it was like two hundreds

577
00:30:34,359 --> 00:30:37,519
something chargers. But then prosecutors were like, well, this is

578
00:30:37,519 --> 00:30:39,559
better because you don't have to testify, you don't have

579
00:30:39,599 --> 00:30:42,079
to go up against the judge yea, and like relive

580
00:30:42,119 --> 00:30:46,000
everything and then not even the judge, the defense attorney.

581
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,039
That's what it is. Mainly, that's right. And so in

582
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,559
the end they're like, you know what, no, this is

583
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,240
right because he's still going to go to jail at

584
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,200
the end of everything. So two years after returning home

585
00:30:57,759 --> 00:31:01,359
at seventeen years old, Abby faced her thirty six year

586
00:31:01,359 --> 00:31:05,000
old abuser and gave her impact statement at his sentencing.

587
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,319
This is a part of it. It seems like forever

588
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,880
two years ago. Two years have gone by, both fast

589
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,640
and slow in different senses. But I often think about

590
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,480
Nate Kibby and what he did, and what he did

591
00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:19,839
affects my life on a day to day basis. My

592
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,119
name does not mean the same thing anymore that I

593
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,759
did before October ninth. I'm intending school and I'm afraid

594
00:31:25,799 --> 00:31:28,079
to let anybody know what my last name is. Nobody

595
00:31:28,079 --> 00:31:29,839
knows who my last name is. I did not put

596
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,880
you in prison. You put yourself in prison, So I

597
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,400
can't carry that blame on my shoulders when it's simply

598
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,400
not true that I put you in prison. When you

599
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,160
decided to point that gun at me, that was not

600
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,839
my choice. It was not my choice to go to

601
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,720
your house. It was not my choice for you to

602
00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:43,680
rate me. It was not my choice for you to

603
00:31:43,759 --> 00:31:46,279
threaten me. You did that all by yourself. There are

604
00:31:46,279 --> 00:31:48,400
certain aspects of my freedom that I can never get back.

605
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,200
But in that same aspect, I want you to know

606
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,480
that I appreciate my freedom because of you that I

607
00:31:52,559 --> 00:31:54,720
enjoy and I appreciate life because of you, And I

608
00:31:54,759 --> 00:31:56,599
never look at sunshine in the same way. I never

609
00:31:56,599 --> 00:31:59,680
think about fresh air in the same way. Oh my god.

610
00:32:00,119 --> 00:32:02,960
And at seventeen, she's telling this to a man who

611
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,000
did this to her, Like that's crazy. Her mom also

612
00:32:07,119 --> 00:32:11,599
addressed Nate Kilby during the sentencing trial and asked him

613
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,119
what She said, It's all I can think about. Can

614
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,839
you please tell us why you did it? Like she

615
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,160
wanted to know why, But he never did. He didn't

616
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,759
say anything. He was sentenced to forty five to ninety

617
00:32:21,839 --> 00:32:25,559
years in prison. Wow. And I was listening to twenty

618
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,759
twenty ABC twenty twenty. I think it's who does it?

619
00:32:29,079 --> 00:32:31,920
You know the show They did an episode on this

620
00:32:32,119 --> 00:32:35,519
and there's an FBI profiler talking about her case. And

621
00:32:35,559 --> 00:32:38,720
she said, if I had to make a book about

622
00:32:38,759 --> 00:32:41,799
what to do when you're kidnapped her, her case would

623
00:32:41,839 --> 00:32:46,559
be like number one, where you do what she did,

624
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:53,480
try totze and up peace. Yes, yeah, that's what the

625
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,920
profiler said, Like if you know you were to study,

626
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,640
like what can you do? Not that Usually there's something

627
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,759
you can do, but sometimes there is like this. Yeah,

628
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,319
I don't know. It's just so wild because like you

629
00:33:05,359 --> 00:33:10,200
hear of other cases like I don't again, I never

630
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,440
remember names, but I read one of damn, what's a

631
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,519
guy from Mindhunter anyway, one of his books, and he

632
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,160
was talking actually I read Mindhunter. I think it was

633
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,319
from mind Hunter, oh the book, yeah, yeah, And so

634
00:33:23,359 --> 00:33:27,079
he was talking about the guy who killed a bunch

635
00:33:27,079 --> 00:33:29,880
of like nursing students. I think it was that guy.

636
00:33:30,359 --> 00:33:36,119
And he before he went on that ravage, he assaulted

637
00:33:36,119 --> 00:33:40,039
it and raped this woman and when she tried to

638
00:33:40,119 --> 00:33:41,680
like appease to him, to try to get him to

639
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,000
calm down, and made him more angry and he killed her.

640
00:33:44,519 --> 00:33:48,039
So it's like hard to be prescriptive and say you

641
00:33:48,119 --> 00:33:50,200
need to do this one thing, like honestly, there is

642
00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:54,039
no one thing. And obviously people who are abusers just

643
00:33:54,079 --> 00:33:58,039
need to stop like like that. I don't know that's true.

644
00:33:58,759 --> 00:34:01,759
Five years after all this, nineteen, Abby gave birth to

645
00:34:01,799 --> 00:34:05,559
a baby. She told ABC twenty twenty that what she

646
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:07,519
learned from this is that no one should lose hope.

647
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,599
Hope is something that no one can take away from you.

648
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,480
She now works as a hairdresser and even served as

649
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,519
an executive producer on the movie Girl in the Shed.

650
00:34:16,599 --> 00:34:20,360
The Kidnapping of Abbi Hernandez, a Lifetime movie that stars

651
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:26,320
Ben Savage as the kidnapper. Wow isn't he all weird? Now?

652
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,000
Is he like the one that sounds super religious and

653
00:34:28,039 --> 00:34:31,679
doesn't talk to his former cast world? Oh that's where

654
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:33,239
the name sounds form eliter. I don't know. I have

655
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,480
no idea. I could be wrong. I could be very wrong.

656
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,599
Don't trust me on that. Are you talking about the

657
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,519
guy who also has a sister that was in one

658
00:34:43,559 --> 00:34:45,599
of those shows? Also? I forgot which one, the one

659
00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:50,960
with the Mary Kay Nashie Wilson, because he was on

660
00:34:51,039 --> 00:34:53,519
a show from the nineties or eighties whatever it was.

661
00:34:54,119 --> 00:34:56,440
And I don't know. That's not Been Savage. I don't

662
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,239
think so. He's the guy from Boy Means World, the

663
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,719
main guy from Yeah, yeah, but he's not all religious

664
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,159
and weird. It's another guy. Oh he's not. Oh I

665
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:06,079
thought it was him. No, No, I think I know who

666
00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:07,679
you're talking about, and I just can't remember his name

667
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,920
right now. It's not him. I know that for a fact.

668
00:35:11,159 --> 00:35:15,480
Unless I'm wrong, then I don't know that Kirk Cameron.

669
00:35:16,159 --> 00:35:18,519
It just popped up in my head. You're talking about

670
00:35:18,559 --> 00:35:21,800
Kirk Cameron. No, you're probably I am right, Donny, stop

671
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,320
even looking it up. Kirk Cameron is the one that

672
00:35:24,559 --> 00:35:25,679
used to be. I don't know if he was on

673
00:35:25,679 --> 00:35:29,480
that show or another show, but he's like all low

674
00:35:29,519 --> 00:35:32,039
weird or religious now just like his that must yeah,

675
00:35:32,079 --> 00:35:35,159
you're right, you're right, Okay. Anyway, Yeah, he's the cannaper

676
00:35:35,199 --> 00:35:38,880
abuser in this lifetime movie. And she did say about

677
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,360
this that she found it healing to get her story

678
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,199
out on her own terms. But apparently Ben Savage like

679
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,039
ruined the movie and he can act. That's what the

680
00:35:47,079 --> 00:35:50,320
reviews of the movie are. I mean, it's a Lifetime movie,

681
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,360
what do we expect? But yeah, nonetheless, I am glad

682
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,400
she got to tell her story in her own terms

683
00:35:58,559 --> 00:36:00,960
and not feel like somebody is king for her. Like

684
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,039
you know that that is powerful and healing. That's powerful. Yeah.

685
00:36:04,519 --> 00:36:08,360
And then she went and that twenty twenty episode. It

686
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,760
was the first time she spoke about it too, and

687
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,159
again it was like all on her terms too. That's good,

688
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,039
that's good. Yeah, yeah, because sometimes twenty twenty can be

689
00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:18,360
a little fucking shady. I know, I learned about them.

690
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:25,119
We went to the Crime and Paranormal podcasts. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

691
00:36:25,199 --> 00:36:28,079
because Sarah Turney talked about it, yes, yeah, and her

692
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,519
and her keynote speech. Yeah, but yeah, that was the

693
00:36:32,519 --> 00:36:37,039
case of Abby Ernandez. Wow, well, thank you for sharing. Yes,

694
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:49,480
before we go, do you have any spooky recommendations? I

695
00:36:49,519 --> 00:36:53,719
finished the audiobook by Gus what a no science name.

696
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,840
Oh there's a thing between us. Oh yeah, in between us,

697
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,960
That's what I finished. This thing between us? Oh what

698
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,960
did I say? Yes? Between us? Oh my, this thing

699
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:11,320
between us? And it was interesting. It was trippy, it

700
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,880
was scary. It actually scared me. I guess I should

701
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,159
pull up the synopsis, but I'm just tired and hungry,

702
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,639
so let me just do that real quick because I

703
00:37:20,639 --> 00:37:28,719
already started talking about it. Load. Yeah, you know what's saying?

704
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,280
Too long to load anyway. It's basically this guy who's

705
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,920
grieving his wife that died, and before she died, like

706
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,199
creepy things were happening to them, and then they keep

707
00:37:38,199 --> 00:37:43,119
happening after her death. So it was it was good listen.

708
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,920
Kind of shorter on the shorter end for an audio,

709
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,760
but it's a short book. Yeah. I read some reviews

710
00:37:51,079 --> 00:37:54,480
and some people felt like the second half was not

711
00:37:54,519 --> 00:37:57,119
really connected to the first half, like and I kind

712
00:37:57,159 --> 00:37:59,519
of agreed with that. It kind of took a turn

713
00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:03,960
like a why it didn't really bother me but I

714
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,280
would agree that the first part was a lot different

715
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,920
than the last parts. Interesting, I don't remember enough to

716
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,800
agree or disagree. Like the first parts, you know, he

717
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,840
talks a lot about his grief, the little things that

718
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,159
were happening to them, and then like when he starts

719
00:38:21,159 --> 00:38:23,599
seeing that like wall thing, and then it turns out

720
00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:27,440
like into this huge, I don't know thing that has

721
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,920
all these different components. And I'm saying it basically because

722
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,760
I don't want to spoil, you know, right right, So

723
00:38:33,159 --> 00:38:36,280
for some people that felt like disconnected, which I would

724
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,320
agree with, but it didn't bother me. If you get

725
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,639
what I'm seeing, that makes sense. But I feel like

726
00:38:42,639 --> 00:38:44,960
if you weren't paying attention, you missed what happened at

727
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,760
the end. And I had to ask Christina, like what happened? Yeah,

728
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,920
And I was like I kind of remember this, but

729
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,639
I had to look it up. Yeah, but be like

730
00:38:53,679 --> 00:38:56,880
sure it was good. Still, I still recommend it, And

731
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,519
it's it's short. It's like you don't lose anything, so

732
00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:04,599
even if you don't like six hours and it's like

733
00:39:04,639 --> 00:39:07,679
two hundred and fifty pages less, So yeah, it's a

734
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,679
quick read or listen, but yeah, it is fun. It's

735
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,719
one of my favorite sad girl horror books. Yea, I

736
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,760
love a sad girl horror book. Yeah, I would throw

737
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,239
monstrilli and even I haven't read it, but the way

738
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,599
you described it, I would think it fits in there,

739
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,719
this one, this thing between us, and then the what

740
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,199
was the other one said? Then it's different, but it

741
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,440
is I think grief horror as well. And there's more,

742
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,800
but yeah, yeah, it is worth a read for sure.

743
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:43,039
Would you read it four out of five? Okay? Okay,

744
00:39:44,119 --> 00:39:53,239
that's that's all you have? Yes, okay. My speaking recommendation

745
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,800
is a podcast I just found. Let me go to

746
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:02,519
my listening history really quick. Okay. It's called Nightmares of

747
00:40:02,519 --> 00:40:06,440
the America's Indigenous Tales. Are you freaking serious? I told

748
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:11,199
you about that fucking podcast? Oh oh well, I finally listened.

749
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,159
Wow when did you tell me about it? We make

750
00:40:14,159 --> 00:40:17,519
sure it's the same one. It's like two brothers. Yes, no,

751
00:40:17,559 --> 00:40:20,480
I don't think they're brothers. They're brothers. I thought they

752
00:40:20,559 --> 00:40:25,599
have Yeah, it says here Joseph and Gabriel be Hill. Oh,

753
00:40:25,679 --> 00:40:29,360
because they have another podcast. But it's also so this

754
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,440
one is literally the same one I fucking told you about.

755
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,440
Oh my God. And I think I told you about

756
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,599
it more than once, because I I think I talked

757
00:40:36,599 --> 00:40:38,840
about it when I oh, when I was talking about

758
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,199
the when I as a speaker recommendation, I talked about

759
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,320
Killers of the Flower Moon's right, and they have a

760
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,559
series on that. And then I don't know if it's

761
00:40:47,599 --> 00:40:50,199
during that same episode or a different one, but I

762
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:51,920
was like, I was telling you that they also cover

763
00:40:52,039 --> 00:40:56,800
some like Latin American legends because you know, connected and

764
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,800
usually to indigenous folklore, and and I like they talk

765
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,400
about they talk about Yes, I did tell you about

766
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,480
the ship. Yes, you're right. It's a good it is.

767
00:41:09,519 --> 00:41:12,119
It's a good podcast. And then the so this is

768
00:41:12,159 --> 00:41:14,119
two of the siblings, and they have another one where

769
00:41:14,119 --> 00:41:16,519
it's three. Now that I didn't know. I only knew

770
00:41:16,559 --> 00:41:19,440
about Night amer Americas. And of course it's like not

771
00:41:19,519 --> 00:41:21,760
coming up. It's like Terror on Brew I think is

772
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,000
the name of it true? Oh? Sorry, okay, it's true

773
00:41:24,079 --> 00:41:28,519
Terror on tap. Oh that's very close. And that's three

774
00:41:28,559 --> 00:41:31,480
other brothers. And here they all three other brothers. I

775
00:41:31,559 --> 00:41:34,119
mean here they talk about more like also true crime

776
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,519
and different kind of things. Robert the Dall, the Dead

777
00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:42,519
Love Past incident, interesting I didn't know the vampires. Yeah,

778
00:41:42,559 --> 00:41:45,719
so this one's a little more like broader but still creepy,

779
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,119
like creepy stories. It's funny they have too, because it's

780
00:41:48,119 --> 00:41:50,079
easily could have been the same one. But the other

781
00:41:50,119 --> 00:41:53,000
one is more like indigenous stories straight up. And it's

782
00:41:53,079 --> 00:41:55,280
not all horror like you said, they have an episode

783
00:41:55,320 --> 00:42:00,199
on yeah, but it's like native focused. Yes, yes, it is,

784
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,320
like so many interesting topics, yan, the you, no Mummy,

785
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,760
people of the Rainforest, Like I'm adding everything to make you.

786
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,719
Three parts on Alclatraz, No, four parts on Alcatraz, all

787
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,639
almost an hour long, like so many stories, and like

788
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,000
I already listened to a couple of other episodes and

789
00:42:17,039 --> 00:42:18,920
like I'm like, oh, yeah, of our listeners like us,

790
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,679
they're gonna like them, they're like us. Yeah, I should

791
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,039
reach out to them, see if they want to do

792
00:42:24,079 --> 00:42:27,079
an episode with us. That would be fun. But yeah,

793
00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:30,760
that is my speaking recommendation. The Indigenous or sorry Nightmare

794
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,159
oh my god said the name ones. Yes, thank you,

795
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:40,199
Nightmare of America's Indigenous Tales. Okay, so we're done now right, Yeah, sorry,

796
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:45,280
Car is hungry, she's hungry, she she needs to go. Yes, yeah,

797
00:42:45,559 --> 00:42:48,760
so yeah, stay and Spooky. We'll catch everyone next time.

798
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,199
By the time this is out, we will be preparing

799
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,239
for our trip to Mexico, so that's exciting. And if

800
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,440
you want to catch ours logs from that trip, assuming

801
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,159
we make it, they're alive because we have to get

802
00:43:00,199 --> 00:43:03,800
on a plane from the US to Mexico. So pray

803
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,239
for you. Knows if you pray, we'll have some yeah,

804
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:07,800
some content on Patreon for that if you want to

805
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,239
check that out. And yeah, we'll go now because Carmen

806
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,519
is dying, all right, stay Spookie and we'll catch everyone

807
00:43:13,559 --> 00:43:18,440
next time. My Booktels is hosted by Christina and Carmen,

808
00:43:18,599 --> 00:43:22,440
produced and edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen and

809
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,840
with the help of Don shout out with Don. If

810
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,920
you aren't joying the podcast considerably, going to say five

811
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,159
star review, we would really appreciate it. If you don't

812
00:43:29,159 --> 00:43:31,320
want to the professor review, just don't leave a review,

813
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,760
but don't leave anything lower than that, please, I'm just kidding.

814
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,400
You can reach out to the podcast at a Spoakatos

815
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,239
at gmail dot com. You can go to our website

816
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,320
at bookitos dot com and fill out the contact form.

817
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,440
If you want to support the podcast, you can join

818
00:43:43,519 --> 00:43:47,719
our Patreon where we send exclusive stickers, have bonus episodes.

819
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,079
Eight dollar members get an exclusive key chain. It's super cool.

820
00:43:51,159 --> 00:43:53,559
I got new ones and these ones are huge. And

821
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,000
if you want to support, but you can or don't

822
00:43:56,039 --> 00:43:58,159
want to join the Patreon, that's fine too. You can

823
00:43:58,199 --> 00:44:01,639
also get some merch. You can find Shirret Says say

824
00:44:01,679 --> 00:44:04,599
a Spooky and old English letters. There's a beanie. I

825
00:44:04,639 --> 00:44:08,239
love the beanie. There's also a hat. There's a no

826
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,000
Mamus shirt which is a fan favorite. There's a lot

827
00:44:12,039 --> 00:44:15,159
of options, crap tops, sweaters, it's almost swetter weather. We're

828
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,280
nearing a Spookie season, so yeah, get your hoodies. You're

829
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,159
gonna need them. If you don't want to do all that,

830
00:44:20,159 --> 00:44:23,199
that's fine too. You can just listen like you're listening now,

831
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:24,960
and that's the best support that you can give us,

832
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,599
like I always say in our ad break and yeah,

833
00:44:27,639 --> 00:44:31,199
if you like history, you can follow Estoria's Unknown Mining,

834
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:35,039
Carmen's other podcasts, and you can find a Spooky taels

835
00:44:35,079 --> 00:44:38,119
on all of our socials at Spooky Tells All. This

836
00:44:38,159 --> 00:44:41,880
is in the show notes and we appreciate every single listen.

837
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:43,960
Thank you, so much stay as spooky