Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, This is Christina from the feature. Because we
recorded this in the past. As I said last week,
this was supposed to be together with last week's episode,
but we split it up in order to give ourselves
time to get back into researching and recording after we
went to Guadalajara to go see our Agilita and celebrate
her birthday with our entire family. So that is why
we split last week's episode. Also, at some point in
the episode, you hear me say American Pie by Tom
Petty instead of American Girl by Tom Petty, and I
met American girl, not American Pie. I know that's not
a song. All right, enjoy the episode and we'll be
back next week. Hi, this is Christina and Carmen and
this is another episode of Speaky Tales podcast for all
things Espoogye, Andre, Grime, and America. Before I start the case,
just trigger warning for rape that is part of this
and also involves a minor And with that, feel free
to skip to speak your recommendations so we don't want
to hear that. But today I'm sharing the case of
Abby at Nandez. So in twenty thirteen, just before turning
fifteen high school freshman, Abby was walking home from school
when she vanished, and like, no one knew what happened
to her. So she grew up with her mom and
sister in north Conway, New Hampshire. She grew up with
her mom and sister in north Conway, New Hampshire. It's
a small toursy town, considered super safe. In fact, the
whole state is in the list as one of the
safest states in the US. Wow, back then it was true.
Today it's still up there in those like statistics. So yeah,
people moved there because it's considered safe. That's probably one
of the reasons why Senya at Nandez Abby's mom moved
there after her divorce, because now she's a single working parent.
She's got two daughters to raise, right Yeah, and she
worked long hours as a nurse, so this seemed like
the perfect place to raise Abbi and Sarah. And Abby
was considered a very nice teen, always positive, always very
friendly with everyone. She talked to everyone as if they
were friends with her already. She studied German and robotics
as a freshman, which is crazy to me. Robotics, that's wild. Yeah.
She was super athletic, into sports and she had a
boyfriend Jimmy. They loved each other as much as high
school sweethearts, can you know. Yeah, And things were great
for her and her family until October nine, twenty thirteen.
Abby had not arrived home from school yet, and Senya,
her mom, started getting worried. But she was like, you
know what, maybe she's with friends at school still, So
she drove up there to look for her. But when
she got there, the librarian told her that she had
already left. She saw Abby leaving, so now she's even
more worried. She gets back home, i'd be still not there.
She then calls the hospital, the local hospital, to see
if she checked in there, and maybe she got her
on the way home, and she's just there. She hasn't
checked in, but no, she's not there either. Finally, at
seven pm that night, it was too long for her,
and Senya went to file a missing person's report. And
she did not for one second think that Abby ran away.
It wasn't like her. Plus, they were getting ready to
celebrate her fifteenth birthday in like four days, so it
just didn't seem like she would run away at all.
And luckily, the search did happen very quickly. Local police
and FBI got involved fast. They went door to door
looking for her, and again she disappeared three days before
before her fifteenth birthday party. So instead of holding a
party for her, the party that they were already planning,
they ended up doing a vigil for her. A lot
of people attended in the community. Oh my god, that's
so sad it is. Can you imagine? It's terrible? And
just within weeks there were over five hundred tips called
into the hotline that investigators had set up, but there
were no concrete leads at all, and all they had
is the following information. Abby left school at two twenty
nine pm. She walked through the field hockey Field, down
Eagle's Way and into a power line trail near the school.
She was seen on that power trail power line trail
between two thirty and two thirty five pm. She sent Jimmy,
her boyfriend, a heart emoji at two fifty three pm
as she walked, and he was on the bus. Fifteen
ish minutes later, at three oh seven, her phone signal
disappears a lost signal at the cell tower on the
west side of Cranmore Mountain. And that's all they had
to go on, like nothing else but they believe that
that window of time between two fifty three and three
oh seven is where something went wrong, something happened to her.
They didn't treat this like, oh no, she just went missing. Immediately,
they were like, she was probably taken. So, you know,
they did their jobs, because there's so many of these
cases where they're like, ah, she ran away, and they
don't do their jobs. But here they led into action,
which Sily is like rare. Yeah. So they started questioning
family and friends, which didn't give them leads. It just
showed them how close she was to everyone. And one
month went by, still nothing the media on her. The
reporting started dying down. Meanwhile, her mom and sister fell
into despair, still looking for her, putting up signs everywhere.
They're still going door to door and all this chaos
of trying to find her, Senya ignore daily tasks and
things were piling up in the house, including the mail,
because that's just like one of the last things you open,
I feel, yeah, even like on a regular name, you know, imagine, Yeah,
on top of that, dealing with your daughter being missing,
like exactly the last function amount. Yeah. Yeah, So she
went for she went weeks without checking her mail, and
her pile grew larger, and in that pile there was
a letter from Abby. What Yeah. The letter read the following,
Dear Mom, I miss you and I love you so
much more than you could imagine. I'm sorry I did this.
I've seen the newspapers and TV news, and to answer
your questions, yes, I'm alive, I'm safe, and I'm healthy.
I really miss you, mom, but I won't tell you
where I am. I love you so much. Please stay
strong for me. I'm staying strong for you. I've come
to realize that, along with love and courage, hope can
speak louder than fear. Please don't lose hope. Hang in
there for me. Mom. I had a dream where I
came home and I gave you the biggest hug ever.
I don't know if it matters, but I like to
think that it does. Please don't forget that I love you.
Please give Sarah a big hug for me, and tell
her that I love and miss her so much. I
pray that all your hopes and dreams come true. Love Abby,
Oh my god? And what this really her? That was
the question of the hour? Really. The letter was postmarked
October twelfth, twenty thirteen, and again she wasn't missing October ninth, okay,
but Senya Hernandez her mom didn't see it until November
six wow, because again her mail was piling up. Yeah.
When she first saw the letter and it said dear mom,
she was excited because she's like, oh, it'll lead us
to her or something, you know. But after she read it,
it felt wrong. She's like, yeah, this is her handwriting,
but doesn't feel like anything she would ever say. She's
been forced to say something maybe mm hmmm. Yeah, and
she didn't think first. She was like, yes, it's her handwriting,
but I don't think these are her words, Like it
sounds like someone else is saying this. And Sanya handed
this over to investigators who confirmed by DNA on left
on the paper that it did belong to Abby, So
she did write the letter, and they held on to
the letter, having possession of the letter for a month
before giving this to the media, like telling them, yeah,
we received the letter, because you know, big cases like this,
I have to like keep people updated. So they held
onto the information for one month because they were worried
that if this was a letter by her and she
sent it a secret from whoever was keeping her. If
they gave out the information that they received the letter
for her from her, it could put her in danger.
So they didn't say anything for one month. Then they
finally did report this and I when I read this,
so the media then reporters they all were like, well
news ankers and like all those places, They're like, well,
this is is this even a missing person's case? Was
she even taken? Or is this a runaway And despite
investigators confirming there belief that they are treating this as
someone who was abducted, not a runaway case, media and
local residents started turning their turning on the family. Oh wow,
they were angry and they believed that the letter was
a confession from a runaway teen girl. Okay, but also
like why get angry about that? If this isn't a
runaway girl, then clearly like something is going on in
the home that she's running away from. So if that
was the case, like I would still feel concerned for
this team, you know what I mean, even if it's like,
oh I don't want to follow the rules or okay, well,
how can we work with this family to for them
to live with each other? Because anytime, even if it's
a teen running away. Like that's sad still, you know,
like that's still concerned, right, But people don't. People They
think like teenagers are adults, you know. Yeah, No, they're little.
They're babies in them in the scheme of a lifetime
of a person, Yeah, you're a baby, Like, yeah, you're
a baby until you're thirty, you know. I'm so you're
a baby. You're still baby. We're babies. Yeah. So yeah,
people were angry and they were like, she's wasting time
and resources because this was treated like a kidnap victim
when she's clearly a runaway. Yeah, and people were calling
for the family to pay back the money that the
Conway Police Department and the FBI spent, Like this kid
who fucking hooh bitch. I hate when they do that shit.
That reminds me of that other case where people were
accusing I don't remember names as always, but they were
accusing the They were accusing the victim who was kidnapped.
Basically it was a woman. It was an adult woman,
but she was kidnapped with her husband. Well, they somebody
broke into their apartment. They held them a hostage or whatever,
they taped them up, couldn'tain anything, and then they left
him tied up, and then they took her and then
they blamed him for it. Yeah, so they first they
thought it was him, even though he had nothing to
do with it. And then when she came back, they
accused her of faking the whole thing, like gone Girl,
because Gone Girl had just come out. Yeah, and I'm like,
these people have been traumatized and you're over here, and
even and the police, the law enforcement came out and
they're like, she owes us money this and that. I'm like,
who fucking cares? Like, I don't care how much money
is to waste it on them anyway. Yeah, if anything, like,
you should be doing this for free, if anything, you
should come out directly out of your patrick because it
doesn't exactly. So, Yeah, people were calling for that, for
that money to be give back, and that is so
much of books for real. I can't believe that. No,
And even in the midst of all this hatred, they
were suddenly getting online. They did not waiver in their
belief that she was being health captive and she needed
to be rescued. And they were right. This was supposed
to be their community, and they were online saying shit
like sounds like a runaway punk this. Okay, this has
been fishy from the beginning. Oh I can't stand people. Yeah,
even rumors in her former school started to spread. Kids
were saying that she ran away because she was pregnant,
and her sister and bff her Bessie went to the
school and they were appalled at the rumors. Oh my god,
I would started throwing hands at the school and yeah,
I'm gott in so much trouble because every day it
would have been fisty cuffs. I would fighting like growing
up because no, you're not going to say this ship
while my sister is literally finding for her life somewhere,
you know. Yeah, but that just goes to show like
people love to gossip, and it's like this is why,
like when something is announced that's something like this is happening,
Like I don't go online saying oh this probably happened,
Oh this probably happened, like it's it's messed up. Yeah.
They people engage with these kind of extremely sensitive and
difficult topics. They engage with them like they're like they're
like a circus show. I'm nicking of the when the
emberor heard and not to bring everything back to emberhard.
But we always talking about But yeah, I think of
the how people were acting during the Ember Herd and
johny Depp trial, and I remember when it is over
and Billy Saria and caught a lot of flak rightfully
so about her saying like, oh what what am I
going to watch now? Like and uh, somebody I remember
at work they were talking about this too, like it
was like entertainment. And I'm like, these are people's lives
where toxicity, dysfunction, and abuse took place. Yeah, when they don't,
it sounds like we're reaching a little bit because at
the end of the day, we do talk about your crime.
But I feel like we're sharing either cases where there's
like injustices, like you know when we talked about the
activist in Mexico or here. I think by the end
of it, you'll see why this case is like so
important to learn about. Yeah, and not everyone is doing that.
But again, like you know, you're free to consume whatever
you want, right, I'm like, go ahead, Yeah, I feel
like to listen to an episode on something is not
the same thing as tuning into a trial every day
at eating popcorn while you're watching the trial. Yeah, like
while it's actively going on, treating it like it's a
fictional movie. You know, that is weird ass behavior. Yeah,
that is weird to me too. But if you know,
if that's your thing, maybe just don't be public about it,
or maybe just don't know really truly. So again, luckily
this time around for Abby's case, law enforcement was more
than incompetent, because again we do see cases where they're
not they're doing the opposite of working there, I don't know,
doing nothing. So here they were like, no, the public
is wrong here. We know Abby didn't run away, and
they were like, she didn't take anything with her when
she went missing. All she had was your school backpack,
Like and it was just her school backpack. She didn't
have clothes in there, Like, this isn't a runaway, yeah,
because runaways take things with them, like usually right, they'll have,
you know, change of clothes, something. She had nothing with
her and nothing poigned to this. So they're like, no,
this is a clear case of abduction, and they continue
to treat it that way, and that is excellent because
again it's not always the case. But sadly, even though
they're working hard, they're not getting any nine months go by,
the case is cold. They have no idea where to
move from here until July twenty, twenty fourteen, when Abby
walked home, opened the door to her house and said, mom,
and she was like, Abby, do what this is? Like
the case I was talking about? I know, let me
ask how people reacted when she came back. Actually, no,
oh okay, it was good. It was good. So she
was like Abby, asking, like, is that really her? There's
no way. But then they run to each other. They
hug each other for like the longest times. It's beautiful.
But like, what happened? Yeah? Has she Yeah, I'm gonna
tell you right now. So that day, on October ninth,
twenty thirteen, Abby decided to walk home instead of taking
the bus, which is normal. Sometimes she walked, sometimes she
took the bus. It was not abnormal for her to
choose to walk instead. She did either or on whatever
a randy given day. Yes, and she had been wearing
a brand new pair of boot that was an early
birthday present to her. And yeah, why not walk in
her walking boots? You know, boots were made for walking. Yeah,
I was just gonna see that, I know. But the
boots were not broken. In yet and so as she walked,
her feet were really hurting and blistering, and she was like,
I hope they were in Doc Martins. I know you
suffered through those. Let me just go on a real
side journey about how my feet or tore the fuck
up by a pair of Doc Martins. And I love
these shoes, Okay, their platform I think they're called the
jade platforms. Maybe burgundy color. Beautiful, beautiful shoes, beautiful. Anyway,
I made the mistake runing into a concert and I
was like, well, I am I going to be walking.
I'm just going to stand there, but I'd take into
consideration that parking would be for and like walking the
stairs and all that. Right, I was just like standing
is tiring on the feet too, Yeah, yeah, yeah, true.
I didn't think about any of that. I just thought
about my outfit. And I was wearing black highway pants
and it's like cute, like burgundy, like lace, like crop
top type of situation with my matching shoes oversa damn jacket. Cute, right,
sounds cute. And my friend sees me, she's like, are
you sure you're rained? Like you want to wear the shoes,
And I was like yeah, She's like seriously, And I
was like, yeah and whatever. Getting there wasn't bad, but
then walking out, it was raining so stormy actually, and
so my socks got wet and I think it was
like the friction of my wet sauce against the boot
scraping the back of my foot. I don't know what
you call that, but disgusting and truly disgusting. When I
finally took my socks off, painful as hell. I couldn't
even take a step without feeling like my the cut
blisters I had, I couldn't take a step with that
feeling like it was opening. Yeah. And then let me
tell you, oh, go on, Oh, I should say I
couldn't walk because of the disgusting feeling. I couldn't wear shoes. Yeah,
And so I was like, I'm walking from home. I
wore my slippers to the office just to get my stuff,
and then I was like, I'm not coming in until
I can't wear shoes again. No, I don't blame you.
I've seen some nasty blisters as a as a former
medic in the army. Oh, I'm sure it was one
of the things that fucked people up the most, especially
these long Assbrooke marches, I saw some wizzies. They are
no joke, like they really aren't. Blisters, literally are no joke,
like I would I completely understand that. She did not
want to walk anymore, so her feet were getting destroyed
by these new boots. They weren't broken again. So when
a car pulled over asking if she wanted to ride,
oh no, she agreed because of her blisters. Plus she thought,
this is literally such a safe city. It's nothing happens here.
The person seemed nice. Everyone was so nice in Conway,
you know. So she was like, yeah, I would like
a ride, and so as they drove, then she started
getting like an uneasy feeling. So she didn't tell the
man her address and asked if he could drop her
off at a nearby restaurant. Smart yeah, but then he
was like, no, I need to make a step first,
and then he went to a home depot. She was like, actually,
I can walk from here. I'm not far from here.
She was not close to her house anymore. But she's like, no,
I need to get out right, And so she was like,
I'm just going to go home from here, like I'll
get out here, no worry, Like thanks for the ride.
But when she said this, he pulled out a gun. No,
oh my god. Yeah, and he told her if you
try to scream or to try to escape, or make
any effort to escape, there will be consequences. And he
told her he could blow her brains down right now
if he wanted, or he could slit her throat if
he wanted to. Then he grabbed a baseball hat that
he had, he put it on her. He put a
jacket on her to like disguise her, and he handcuffed her.
All of this, he was just strolling for a victim.
It seems that way, like he was ready. Yeah, And
then he told her bear with me. I'm having a
hard time in my life. I mean, these kind of
things happen. There's like a trigger. Yeah. Yeah. So she
told him she didn't judge him for what he was
doing because she realized, like, I need to get him
to trust me if I want to stay alive. God,
imagine that intuition and the smart Yeah. Yeah. She was
also hoping her phone was being tracked at this point
because she still had it on her, but then he
took it and broke it. So this is where they
lost signal. This is where that happened, and he drove
on and she had her head down the whole time
because he had a gun like pointed to her the
whole time. As he drove. She would occasionally try and
peek out the window and she could see they were
leaving Conway and heading into the mountains. And she could
tell he was a winning traffic lights because they have
cameras on them. So he took these back roads into
this rural wooded area thirty miles north of Conway to
his home. And in the home she recalls passing by
like these don't tread on me flags? Oh my god,
of course, right, always one of them, you know what
I mean? No, because yeah, he put her in a
small storage shed on his property, which was a mobile
home and I can't get over that. Don't try it
on me, but I'll tread all over your rights. Oh yeah,
that's going to train on you as a human being. Yeah.
Of course. He had a mobile home on a property
that was four Brookside Drive in Gorham, New Hampshire, and
all over there were American flags, guns. He even had
a framed copy of the US Constitution on the wall.
What the fuck the hypocrisy? Like, yeah, these people are deranged,
that's why. No, truly, when he put her in the shed,
he put a T shirt on her head and then
a motorcycle helmet over her over the T shirt like
that shit is socifocating. This is horrible what he did
after this, he put the T shirt on her head,
then the more cycle over her head, and then tied
her up and then he proceeded to rape her after this,
and then he just left her in the shed. Hours later,
he came back to show her media footage, so like
that night, because there was already a report that she's missing,
so he showed her the media footage of that people
were looking for her, and then he left. And then
some days past he came back to the shed and
told her to write a letter to her mom, telling
her she was okay and not to worry. And she
did write a letter. And she used this opportunity to
write a letter to write or to use her nail
to dig out the words like help, hoping he wouldn't
find it, which is smart. But then he did find it,
and he came back, used the sun gun on her
and raped her again. Then he had to write another letter,
and this is the one that her mom did receive.
So yeah, they were all they were right all along
she was being forced to write this letter. Yeah, and
you know, the days went by, she prayed every day,
putting up with more assaults and torture from her abuser.
As more time passes, Abby keeps trying to gain his
trust and learn more about her captor. Eventually he starts
slating her read books that he owned, and he gives
her a copy of a cookbook and this is where
she saw his name from the first time, because it
was written in the cookbook. And so before this he
was like, call me master. I'm telling you, Yes, these
people are deranged. Yeah, Like, is the connection between the
kind of beliefs he had and behavior like this? It's
just it's it should be studied. It has been studied,
you right, Like, of course, someone who has these beliefs,
who believes women are second class citizens, it's not a
leap to then go out and abduct a teenager, sexually
assault her and rape her and then be like call
me master, Like that's why feminism is important, That's what No,
And it all comes back to on little things, little jokes,
little you know, it's humanization. It leads to this but
people always want to excuse it and like, oh, it's
just a joke, Like, no, bitch, it's serious. Completely. And
during her time captivity, something else happened where police ended
up feet away from the ship. She was being kept up,
but she didn't know it. They didn't know it. Nobody
looked for her there because there was a whole different situation.
During a car accident, Nate Kibbie followed a woman home,
like there was a minor car accident, right the person
that hit him or he hit her, it just not clear.
What happened was a woman. He followed that woman to
her house, trespassed into her property, and then he was
in her driveway taking pictures of her car. Of course
he did that because he's deranged. Yeah, And when she
told them to stop, he got all confrontrational and pushed
her to the ground and police arrived within minutes. He
was arrested. During this, police took his gun, and part
of his parole deal to be able to like not
go to jail for this basically was for him to
hand over his weapons collection. So police went to his
property to take all his weapons, and when they arrived,
it was very strange to them that he was like
they expected like a firefight for this because he's like
my second Amendment. He's one of those people, right, But
when they arrived, there was no fight. He was eager
to give them his weapons to get them to leave. Yeah,
he had them laid out in the front like all
ready to go, all the paperwork, like here's this one
and this one already like so that they wouldn't inspect anything.
I'm surprised the search isn't an aspect of this. Yeah,
I'm surprised they were in like not that I'm calling
for more right, for the police to be able to
do more things. It's it's a it's a slippery slope,
it is, it is. Yeah, but yeah, I know they
he grabbed his weapons and left, and it's just it's
it's wild to think that she was right there and yeah,
they didn't know. You know, so time goes by. She
doesn't know how much time passes. Every day she thinks,
this is the damn going to die on. I want
to escape, like you know, things like that. She's worried
about her family, if they'll ever see her, if she'll
ever see them, if she'll ever be free again. Yeah,
Nate Kibbie kept her ganged at all times, and he
would play loud metal meuse so no one could hear
her even if she screamed wow. Eventually he was like,
all right, this is like a little much, and he
took out the gag and instead he was like, this
is a shot collar. Here's this shot collar. Put it on,
and then he told her to scream so she could
so that she would know the feeling of being shocked
if she screamed that day that he A little bit
after he gave her the shot collar, he told her
they needed to leave because she the police knew too much.
She knew too much, so he about him and she
He put her in her trunk and he drove away.
And it seemed like ours to try and keep track
of what was happening. How long it had been she played.
She played American Pie in her head over and over
again because she loved Tom Petty and so she knew
that song and how long it was. I didn't know
that song, oh, taking that movie. The only Tom Putting
song I know is the free Falling one. Free falling. Yeah.
Little did she know he was driving in circles and
he went right back on to his property. She didn't
take her anywhere, what the hell? Yeah, probably just to
keep her on her toes. Yeah. He put her in
a different room, still inside the shed, and he told
her this door is made to catch on fire if
it's busted open. Oh my god, to scare her. There
never was. Yeah, But from this point on she got
to know him more, gain his trust more, and he
told her about his marijuana business, his dislike of the police.
When he would tied her up, he would be he
would be like, I only know how to tie you
up like this because it's what they did to us.
Turns out they are the police. And he had a
history of being out of prison starting from his teens.
His adult criminal records starts at eighteen with an assault. Wow.
Again not really surprising. Yeah. So she would listen and
when he would talk and say all these stories and
just he would go along with whatever he says. She's like,
he needs to think I'm on his side. Yeah, for
me to be let go one day. And so she
even got involved in his counterfeiting money operations. She would
help him with that. He told her that he was
going to start doing this and that he could do
this because of all the money they had taken from him,
it wasn't wrong for him to start printing fake money,
and she helped him with this endeavor. And after he
started this fake counterfeit business, he was also apparently dating
on the side or something, because he met a woman
named Lauren Munday and they met online. They met at
a hotel. They had a normal date whatever normal date
with Niate Kibby And how that tells yes, thank you,
that's the words I was looking for. They had a
good time together at this hotel. He offered to pay
for the hotel and he left her three fifty dollars
bills and she tried to use one of them later
at like a store or something like that, and it
was flagged as counterfeit and she was arrested. But then
she told the police, well, this man that I went
on a date with gave me this bill. It's his
fake money, it's not mine. And so she was like oh,
because of that. But then when she was like oh,
she called Nick Kibby and told them, cussed him out
and told them like you better watch out because they're
coming for you because I told them everything, this is
your fake money, not mine. How dare you send me
up like this, things like that. And so right after
she hung up on him and cussed him out like that,
he went to Abby and told her I'm letting you go. Oh,
the police are coming for me. And she had no
idea why, but she didn't know this is what happened,
that the fake money situation. But she went with him.
He drove her back to Conway, North Conway. They stopped
at a dairy queen before and then he drove to
the same spot where he kidnapped her from and he
told her to get out, and then she slammed the
door and watched him as he the man that tortured
her for months, drove away. What the hell? Then she
walked home and before they left his house, he gave
her a fake story to give to law enforcement that
she was told to say that he was an older
man and he was going to kill everyone if she
said anything about him. And she believed this at first.
Don't say anything, yes, of course, but then after a
week she was like, you know what, no, and she
told law enforcement everything, that he was nakeddie and all
this other thing, all these other things, and law enforcement
spent his home. They expected a firefight because by now
he had gotten his guns back, but no, he turned
himself in and then during the trial he he was
charged with more things. But eventually he was able to
they were able to make a deal where he only
pled guilty to set down felony charges yeah, including felonist
aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping when it's tampering, and criminal threatening.
And at first it seems like unfair, like Abby and
her family was like angry because this meant he was
given less of a sentence because it was not that
many charges because at first it was like two hundreds
something chargers. But then prosecutors were like, well, this is
better because you don't have to testify, you don't have
to go up against the judge yea, and like relive
everything and then not even the judge, the defense attorney.
That's what it is. Mainly, that's right. And so in
the end they're like, you know what, no, this is
right because he's still going to go to jail at
the end of everything. So two years after returning home
at seventeen years old, Abby faced her thirty six year
old abuser and gave her impact statement at his sentencing.
This is a part of it. It seems like forever
two years ago. Two years have gone by, both fast
and slow in different senses. But I often think about
Nate Kibby and what he did, and what he did
affects my life on a day to day basis. My
name does not mean the same thing anymore that I
did before October ninth. I'm intending school and I'm afraid
to let anybody know what my last name is. Nobody
knows who my last name is. I did not put
you in prison. You put yourself in prison, So I
can't carry that blame on my shoulders when it's simply
not true that I put you in prison. When you
decided to point that gun at me, that was not
my choice. It was not my choice to go to
your house. It was not my choice for you to
rate me. It was not my choice for you to
threaten me. You did that all by yourself. There are
certain aspects of my freedom that I can never get back.
But in that same aspect, I want you to know
that I appreciate my freedom because of you that I
enjoy and I appreciate life because of you, And I
never look at sunshine in the same way. I never
think about fresh air in the same way. Oh my god.
And at seventeen, she's telling this to a man who
did this to her, Like that's crazy. Her mom also
addressed Nate Kilby during the sentencing trial and asked him
what She said, It's all I can think about. Can
you please tell us why you did it? Like she
wanted to know why, But he never did. He didn't
say anything. He was sentenced to forty five to ninety
years in prison. Wow. And I was listening to twenty
twenty ABC twenty twenty. I think it's who does it?
You know the show They did an episode on this
and there's an FBI profiler talking about her case. And
she said, if I had to make a book about
what to do when you're kidnapped her, her case would
be like number one, where you do what she did,
try totze and up peace. Yes, yeah, that's what the
profiler said, Like if you know you were to study,
like what can you do? Not that Usually there's something
you can do, but sometimes there is like this. Yeah,
I don't know. It's just so wild because like you
hear of other cases like I don't again, I never
remember names, but I read one of damn, what's a
guy from Mindhunter anyway, one of his books, and he
was talking actually I read Mindhunter. I think it was
from mind Hunter, oh the book, yeah, yeah, And so
he was talking about the guy who killed a bunch
of like nursing students. I think it was that guy.
And he before he went on that ravage, he assaulted
it and raped this woman and when she tried to
like appease to him, to try to get him to
calm down, and made him more angry and he killed her.
So it's like hard to be prescriptive and say you
need to do this one thing, like honestly, there is
no one thing. And obviously people who are abusers just
need to stop like like that. I don't know that's true.
Five years after all this, nineteen, Abby gave birth to
a baby. She told ABC twenty twenty that what she
learned from this is that no one should lose hope.
Hope is something that no one can take away from you.
She now works as a hairdresser and even served as
an executive producer on the movie Girl in the Shed.
The Kidnapping of Abbi Hernandez, a Lifetime movie that stars
Ben Savage as the kidnapper. Wow isn't he all weird? Now?
Is he like the one that sounds super religious and
doesn't talk to his former cast world? Oh that's where
the name sounds form eliter. I don't know. I have
no idea. I could be wrong. I could be very wrong.
Don't trust me on that. Are you talking about the
guy who also has a sister that was in one
of those shows? Also? I forgot which one, the one
with the Mary Kay Nashie Wilson, because he was on
a show from the nineties or eighties whatever it was.
And I don't know. That's not Been Savage. I don't
think so. He's the guy from Boy Means World, the
main guy from Yeah, yeah, but he's not all religious
and weird. It's another guy. Oh he's not. Oh I
thought it was him. No, No, I think I know who
you're talking about, and I just can't remember his name
right now. It's not him. I know that for a fact.
Unless I'm wrong, then I don't know that Kirk Cameron.
It just popped up in my head. You're talking about
Kirk Cameron. No, you're probably I am right, Donny, stop
even looking it up. Kirk Cameron is the one that
used to be. I don't know if he was on
that show or another show, but he's like all low
weird or religious now just like his that must yeah,
you're right, you're right, Okay. Anyway, Yeah, he's the cannaper
abuser in this lifetime movie. And she did say about
this that she found it healing to get her story
out on her own terms. But apparently Ben Savage like
ruined the movie and he can act. That's what the
reviews of the movie are. I mean, it's a Lifetime movie,
what do we expect? But yeah, nonetheless, I am glad
she got to tell her story in her own terms
and not feel like somebody is king for her. Like
you know that that is powerful and healing. That's powerful. Yeah.
And then she went and that twenty twenty episode. It
was the first time she spoke about it too, and
again it was like all on her terms too. That's good,
that's good. Yeah, yeah, because sometimes twenty twenty can be
a little fucking shady. I know, I learned about them.
We went to the Crime and Paranormal podcasts. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
because Sarah Turney talked about it, yes, yeah, and her
and her keynote speech. Yeah, but yeah, that was the
case of Abby Ernandez. Wow, well, thank you for sharing. Yes,
before we go, do you have any spooky recommendations? I
finished the audiobook by Gus what a no science name.
Oh there's a thing between us. Oh yeah, in between us,
That's what I finished. This thing between us? Oh what
did I say? Yes? Between us? Oh my, this thing
between us? And it was interesting. It was trippy, it
was scary. It actually scared me. I guess I should
pull up the synopsis, but I'm just tired and hungry,
so let me just do that real quick because I
already started talking about it. Load. Yeah, you know what's saying?
Too long to load anyway. It's basically this guy who's
grieving his wife that died, and before she died, like
creepy things were happening to them, and then they keep
happening after her death. So it was it was good listen.
Kind of shorter on the shorter end for an audio,
but it's a short book. Yeah. I read some reviews
and some people felt like the second half was not
really connected to the first half, like and I kind
of agreed with that. It kind of took a turn
like a why it didn't really bother me but I
would agree that the first part was a lot different
than the last parts. Interesting, I don't remember enough to
agree or disagree. Like the first parts, you know, he
talks a lot about his grief, the little things that
were happening to them, and then like when he starts
seeing that like wall thing, and then it turns out
like into this huge, I don't know thing that has
all these different components. And I'm saying it basically because
I don't want to spoil, you know, right right, So
for some people that felt like disconnected, which I would
agree with, but it didn't bother me. If you get
what I'm seeing, that makes sense. But I feel like
if you weren't paying attention, you missed what happened at
the end. And I had to ask Christina, like what happened? Yeah,
And I was like I kind of remember this, but
I had to look it up. Yeah, but be like
sure it was good. Still, I still recommend it, And
it's it's short. It's like you don't lose anything, so
even if you don't like six hours and it's like
two hundred and fifty pages less, So yeah, it's a
quick read or listen, but yeah, it is fun. It's
one of my favorite sad girl horror books. Yea, I
love a sad girl horror book. Yeah, I would throw
monstrilli and even I haven't read it, but the way
you described it, I would think it fits in there,
this one, this thing between us, and then the what
was the other one said? Then it's different, but it
is I think grief horror as well. And there's more,
but yeah, yeah, it is worth a read for sure.
Would you read it four out of five? Okay? Okay,
that's that's all you have? Yes, okay. My speaking recommendation
is a podcast I just found. Let me go to
my listening history really quick. Okay. It's called Nightmares of
the America's Indigenous Tales. Are you freaking serious? I told
you about that fucking podcast? Oh oh well, I finally listened.
Wow when did you tell me about it? We make
sure it's the same one. It's like two brothers. Yes, no,
I don't think they're brothers. They're brothers. I thought they
have Yeah, it says here Joseph and Gabriel be Hill. Oh,
because they have another podcast. But it's also so this
one is literally the same one I fucking told you about.
Oh my God. And I think I told you about
it more than once, because I I think I talked
about it when I oh, when I was talking about
the when I as a speaker recommendation, I talked about
Killers of the Flower Moon's right, and they have a
series on that. And then I don't know if it's
during that same episode or a different one, but I
was like, I was telling you that they also cover
some like Latin American legends because you know, connected and
usually to indigenous folklore, and and I like they talk
about they talk about Yes, I did tell you about
the ship. Yes, you're right. It's a good it is.
It's a good podcast. And then the so this is
two of the siblings, and they have another one where
it's three. Now that I didn't know. I only knew
about Night amer Americas. And of course it's like not
coming up. It's like Terror on Brew I think is
the name of it true? Oh? Sorry, okay, it's true
Terror on tap. Oh that's very close. And that's three
other brothers. And here they all three other brothers. I
mean here they talk about more like also true crime
and different kind of things. Robert the Dall, the Dead
Love Past incident, interesting I didn't know the vampires. Yeah,
so this one's a little more like broader but still creepy,
like creepy stories. It's funny they have too, because it's
easily could have been the same one. But the other
one is more like indigenous stories straight up. And it's
not all horror like you said, they have an episode
on yeah, but it's like native focused. Yes, yes, it is,
like so many interesting topics, yan, the you, no Mummy,
people of the Rainforest, Like I'm adding everything to make you.
Three parts on Alclatraz, No, four parts on Alcatraz, all
almost an hour long, like so many stories, and like
I already listened to a couple of other episodes and
like I'm like, oh, yeah, of our listeners like us,
they're gonna like them, they're like us. Yeah, I should
reach out to them, see if they want to do
an episode with us. That would be fun. But yeah,
that is my speaking recommendation. The Indigenous or sorry Nightmare
oh my god said the name ones. Yes, thank you,
Nightmare of America's Indigenous Tales. Okay, so we're done now right, Yeah, sorry,
Car is hungry, she's hungry, she she needs to go. Yes, yeah,
so yeah, stay and Spooky. We'll catch everyone next time.
By the time this is out, we will be preparing
for our trip to Mexico, so that's exciting. And if
you want to catch ours logs from that trip, assuming
we make it, they're alive because we have to get
on a plane from the US to Mexico. So pray
for you. Knows if you pray, we'll have some yeah,
some content on Patreon for that if you want to
check that out. And yeah, we'll go now because Carmen
is dying, all right, stay Spookie and we'll catch everyone
next time. My Booktels is hosted by Christina and Carmen,
produced and edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen and
with the help of Don shout out with Don. If
you aren't joying the podcast considerably, going to say five
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