WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:02.960 How'd you like to listen to dot net rocks with 2 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:07.879 no ads? Easy? Become a patron for just five dollars 3 00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:10.800 a month. You get access to a private RSS feed 4 00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:14.279 where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month. 5 00:00:14.279 --> 00:00:16.879 We'll get you that and a special dot net rocks 6 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:21.000 patron mug. Sign up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks 7 00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:36.920 dot com. Hey, it's dot net rocks from build. I'm 8 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:40.479 Carl Franklin A Richard Campbell. We're a Microsoft build in Seattle, 9 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:44.520 and I noticed this morning when I walked in here, 10 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:48.679 I am the only human in Seattle wearing shorts. 11 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:52.439 Yeah, of course you are. And I thought, which is 12 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:56.439 weird because normally celebrity wear shorts, do they? Yeah, shorts, 13 00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:58.359 sandals and a gortex jacket to go together. 14 00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:01.960 Yeah, I guess the Birkenstocks, right, yeah, yeah, but you know, 15 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:05.400 because it's little rainy, I guess people put on their 16 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:08.319 long pants. But I don't know what it feels like short. 17 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.519 It's spring here, can tell. But I looked all around build, 18 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:15.079 only one wearing shorts. Walk down to the hotel today. 19 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:18.920 Only One'm wearing shorts, all right, he So tomorrow I'll 20 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:22.599 be in pants and I'll be more blending in Okay, 21 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:25.719 all right, so I'll get my shorts on. Yeah before 22 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:28.599 we do better. No, framework, let's talk about nineteen fifty four. 23 00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:30.400 What do you want to say about nineteen fifty four? Well, 24 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:33.480 that is the number of our show today, true, nineteen 25 00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:37.079 hundred and fifty four. Yeah, holy crap. So nineteen fifty 26 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:41.280 four was your significant events, including the Supreme Court's Brown 27 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:46.159 versus Board of Education decision, which ruled school segregation unconstitutional. 28 00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:49.400 Imagine that. Wow, that's all I'm going to say, nineteen 29 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:52.760 fifty four. Yeah, other note, they were stupid in nineteen 30 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:54.680 fifty four. What did they know? Don't think that's true? 31 00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:58.239 What did they know? All right? Other notable happenings included 32 00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:02.239 the mass vaccination of children against polio, the beginning of 33 00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:05.439 the Vietnam War, and the debut the first nuclear powered submarine, 34 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:09.639 the USS Nautilus, which has a significance is that of 35 00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:13.240 g Yeah, that's right, Groton, Connecticut. My father worked there, 36 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:16.400 my mother worked, my brother Jay worked at the electric boat. 37 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:18.560 They built a prototype reactor in Idaho, because that's a 38 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:20.759 good place to put a build a reactor, you know, 39 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:22.120 for a submarine. 40 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:25.639 In Idaho. Well, you know where my father and mother 41 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:29.840 went on their honeymoon, Idaho. Interest that's why the reactor. Yeah, 42 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:31.240 that's that's. 43 00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:33.680 Where ricked Over was. That was where all the experiments. 44 00:02:33.319 --> 00:02:35.919 Were being done. So interesting, isn't that funny? 45 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:36.800 Yeah? 46 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:40.039 So yeah, I have a little history with electric boat. 47 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:43.360 I never worked there myself, General Dynamic electric boat. But 48 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:46.360 because I don't know, I was kind of a little hippie. 49 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:48.639 He didn't you didn't want to be a nable architect 50 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:49.159 like your brother. 51 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:51.000 Well it's not that. I just didn't want to contribute 52 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:53.000 to the war machine. You know. I thought I you know, 53 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:55.199 I thought I knew everything when I was twelve whatever. 54 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:01.759 So anyway, you must have some I mean Joseph Salk 55 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:05.599 certainly and important, oh yes, you know. And Plio yeah yeah, 56 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:10.039 and that was huge also the founding of CERN really yeah, 57 00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:16.039 the European Organization for Research in Nuclear Materials. Right, and 58 00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:20.919 they discovered the god particle, well they possibly they found 59 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:24.479 in twenty twelve they found a candidate in the Bosun 60 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:26.919 class of sufficient mass and they got what one hundred 61 00:03:26.919 --> 00:03:31.199 and twenty five GeV that would be comparable to what 62 00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:33.159 Higgs had said would should exist. 63 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:35.599 Okay, but what I remember from twenty twelve is a 64 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:39.080 everybody lost their minds thinking these guys were going to 65 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:39.960 blow up the world. 66 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:42.280 Well it was blown before that. That was we're going 67 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:43.840 to make the black. 68 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:47.400 Holes right and thus blow up the world. And then 69 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:50.840 they said they found it, they found the god part. 70 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:52.560 It was a bit more complicated than that, but that's 71 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:54.960 what the news reported. Yeah, they said they simplified a lot. 72 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:57.400 They also found a bunch of other interesting things like pentaquarics, 73 00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:01.400 and the configurations didn't even make sense, even locations of supersymmetry. 74 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:04.199 We've every thinks that only Richard Campbell would undersleeve, never 75 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:05.800 done this. Geek out, but no way, I have a 76 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:09.599 lot of notes. Are we talking end of twenty twenty five? 77 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:10.000 I don't know. 78 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:12.039 Maybe it's it's a lot. It's a ton of work 79 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:14.000 to actually put that whole story together. But all right, 80 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:16.240 they've also got that that's the largest anti manufacturer in 81 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:18.480 the world. If you live from any matter, that's where 82 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:18.720 you go. 83 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:21.959 And it also spawns the novel Angels and Demons by 84 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:25.079 Dan Brown. Okay, do you remember it? You know what 85 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:29.959 I'm trying. Yeah, Okay, So before we introduce Debbie, let's 86 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:34.240 get to better no framework. All right, all the music? 87 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:44.240 What do you got? So again, I'm really into this. 88 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:50.319 What's trending on githubb list. It's an aggregator that looks at, 89 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:53.680 you know, the most popular GitHub repos and some of 90 00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:57.160 them are nuts, but some of them are pretty cool. 91 00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:01.639 And this one isn't development oriented. But it's YouTube music. 92 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:03.360 And it's literally YouTube music. 93 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:09.079 Well, okay, it's under the thhhh account on its YouTube 94 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:14.079 dash music all right, thhch dot GitHub dot io slash 95 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:17.720 YouTube dash music. Or because this is nineteen fifty four, 96 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:20.720 you go to one ninety five to four dot pop 97 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:25.079 dot me. So it's a YouTube music desktop app bundled 98 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:29.720 with custom plugins and a built in AD blocker and downloader. Right, 99 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:32.920 but this is using electron, so it's an Electron wrapper 100 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:38.120 around YouTube music. Cool. They got all sorts of interesting 101 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:41.360 features including you know, themes and build your own plugins 102 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:44.519 and all that stuff, and an AD blocker and a downloader, 103 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:51.000 which apparently has been the holy grail of spammers, you know, malware. 104 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:53.399 Would they go out and say, hey, we have this 105 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:56.800 YouTube download because everybody wants to download a video from YouTube, right, 106 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:01.199 everybody has in the past to do that because they 107 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:02.560 don't know how long it's going to be up there, 108 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:05.079 and blah blah blah, and there's all sorts of malware 109 00:06:05.079 --> 00:06:07.199 that says they can do that and they infect your machine. 110 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:09.399 It's terrible. I have no idea if this is malware 111 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:12.040 or not. I did not run it. However, since it's 112 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:16.000 trending on GitHub, I'm assuming that people like it, and 113 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:20.800 they like it because it works, and you know, that's it. 114 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:24.079 But the ad blocker in the downloader by itself is 115 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:26.519 probably a good reason to check it out. Awesome, So 116 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:28.639 there you go. Love it. Yeah, who's talking to us today? 117 00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:31.399 Richard Abdy comment off show nineteen seventeen, which you did 118 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:33.839 back in September twenty twenty four. We've talked to one 119 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:35.959 de Wi O'Brien. Maybe you've heard her. Yeah, yeah, And 120 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:39.199 oddly enough, we were talking about playwright I know, shocking 121 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:43.319 nineteen seventeen when jazz took over New Orleans something like that. 122 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:44.879 I think it was also the middle of World War One. 123 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:46.920 But let's talk I complicated now, Okay. A ton of 124 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:50.240 comments on that show, by the way, and Edwin Aughten 125 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:53.399 had this commed. He says, thanks for yet another interesting show. 126 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:56.480 Regarding the challenge. You guys discussed with Debbie about finding 127 00:06:56.560 --> 00:07:00.000 which obscure CSS file is making your element in VIE, 128 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:01.800 something we talked about. 129 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:02.839 I hate that. 130 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:06.519 Yes, well, he says, when using dev tools in Chrome 131 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:08.759 or Edge to inspect CSS, you can go to the 132 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:12.319 computed tab to show the values that the browser is 133 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:15.360 actually applying on the rendered element. 134 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:18.240 But you have you still have to crawl through the 135 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:23.120 hierarchy of CSS to find the ancestor or the one 136 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:27.399 thing that set that that is being cascaded down. It's 137 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:28.279 really a pain. 138 00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:30.319 But in theory you should be able to hover over 139 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:32.519 that and see all the computed values. 140 00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:33.879 You see the computed bit. 141 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:36.240 And then search on that value. You might find that 142 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:39.240 file you're not looking right, So that's the idea. So Edwin, 143 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:40.800 thank you so much for your comment and a copy 144 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:42.199 of music Coba. It's on its way to you. And 145 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:43.759 if you'd like a copy of music Koba, I write 146 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:46.120 a comment on the website at dot rocks dot com or. 147 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:46.720 On the facebooks. 148 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:48.560 We should publish every show there and even comment there, 149 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:50.839 and everybody on the show we'll send you copy Music Koba. 150 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:53.399 Music to Code by of course still going strong. Twenty 151 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:56.639 two episodes music to code by dot Net and you 152 00:07:56.680 --> 00:08:01.160 get the entire collection in MP three wave or flack format. 153 00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:04.720 And before we get started with Debbie, I want to 154 00:08:04.759 --> 00:08:10.199 say that Jeff Fritz and I did an episode of 155 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:15.160 the Blazer Puzzle episode seventy yeah called Playwriter's Block. Ah, 156 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:17.120 what a great name, which we want to know why 157 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:20.920 simple playwright test fails in a standard Blazer server app. 158 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:23.319 And that's all I'm going to say. You're going to 159 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:26.439 have to go find out why and you can try 160 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:29.079 to fix it yourself before you see the solution, okay. 161 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:32.559 Wi O'Brien is a Principal program manager at Microsoft with 162 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:35.879 over fifteen years of experience in front end development. She's 163 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:38.480 worked as a tech lead and consultant for many important 164 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:41.440 clients with various technologies and often with a strong focus 165 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:45.919 on performance, static sites and testing. She has led teams 166 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:48.600 both in house and remotely, as well as giving workshops 167 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:51.679 and training. She has many years of experience as a 168 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:56.639 mentor for online learning platforms, Treehouse and open classrooms. Debbie 169 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:01.720 is a Google developer, experting web technologies, cloudingnir Media Developer Expert, 170 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:05.639 and Next Ambassador, as well as a GitHub Star alumni 171 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:13.840 and previous Microsoft most valuable professional and developer technologies to them, nothing, 172 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:16.360 she said. When she entered the room, right, she said 173 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:21.759 to them, welcome. 174 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:24.480 I think I need to just remove some stuff from 175 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:25.000 that profile. 176 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:27.799 You know, I only read the first paragraph. There were three, 177 00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:32.919 there's more. It's one thing to read it. 178 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:35.840 It's you know you've done those things, no question about that. 179 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:39.279 And but it's the other thing to rehab it all 180 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:39.720 read to you. 181 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:41.720 Yes, that's tough, intimidating. 182 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:45.000 I appreciate that. Who is that person? Wait, it can't 183 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:47.159 be you, but Jeff Fritz and I are a huge 184 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:51.759 fan of playwright. Playwright of course is you know as 185 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:55.440 a fresting tamwork. I almost said a frest where we 186 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:59.879 going a testing framework for websites that goes out and 187 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:05.480 actually executes against your website and you you can essentially 188 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:10.399 write programmable scripts. It's great. Yeah, and we use it 189 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:10.919 all the time. 190 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:14.080 If you want to scrape a website, play rights the 191 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:14.600 way to go. 192 00:10:14.759 --> 00:10:17.879 Well, thanks, that's I mean, that's the point. 193 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:19.360 That's something different. 194 00:10:19.480 --> 00:10:23.639 I have. I have written scripts to scrape websites. Who hasn't, 195 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:28.039 right obviously, and Playwright's great for that because you can 196 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:30.440 essentially what it's for it's not what it's for, but 197 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:31.480 it's still great for that. 198 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:37.720 Well, I mean seeing that you've opened up this and 199 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:40.720 so yeah, obviously, like testing is the key focus of 200 00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:43.559 play right, and we all know that you shouldn't be 201 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:47.519 you all have to be testing your applications and you 202 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:51.600 shouldn't be spending time manually like doing the stuff that 203 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:53.440 computers can do for you, because at the end of 204 00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:56.080 the day, that's just wasting time. And there is still 205 00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:59.519 space for manual testers and stuff. But the more you 206 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:00.679 can owe it the better. 207 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:02.720 Yeah, but it doesn't take the place of an API. 208 00:11:06.519 --> 00:11:08.759 And then coming back to your point where it's like 209 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:12.440 basically you're talking about like scraping or browser automation. Have 210 00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:15.879 you used the play right MCP? Oh my god, all right. 211 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:18.360 So ai'd playwright we ate, Well. 212 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:20.200 We mcp'd it. 213 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:21.919 So by now, if you've been listening to the last 214 00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:23.600 two shows, people know what MCP do. 215 00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:25.480 They owe amazing great, So we don't have. 216 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:28.600 To control program tron is real excellent. 217 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:32.919 So basically what you can now do is turn around 218 00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:35.679 to get up Copilot or whatever LM you're using and 219 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:39.279 say go to a website and do X y Z. 220 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:41.679 Right, So I actually wrote a call. 221 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:44.360 Yes, I actually got it to buy a table for me. 222 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:45.039 Wow. 223 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.159 Yeah, I wanted to buy a table for my twins, 224 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:50.759 so I wanted to find out the cheapest option of 225 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:52.559 buying it, and I wanted to know how much the 226 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:54.240 shipping cost was because I live on an island and 227 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:55.840 they always throw on shipping costs and then it's not 228 00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:58.480 really the right price and stuff. So I asked AI 229 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:02.080 using the MCP, I said, can you go and check 230 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:04.519 it out? So the play Right MCP went and opened 231 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:07.519 up a browser window. He went to the website that 232 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:09.360 I wanted to buy the table from, the particular brand, 233 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:14.000 the Stoke Table. It started searching for different combinations. It 234 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:16.080 found the table plus two chairs is a cheaper option, 235 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:17.679 and I wanted to buy two chairs anyway, so I 236 00:12:17.720 --> 00:12:18.799 buy the whole thing as a package. 237 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:20.919 I say, wait, I didn't buy it for you. 238 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:22.600 Not yet, not yet, not yet, not yet. I'm not 239 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:26.000 there yet. It then went to the filling in the 240 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:28.080 forum to find out the shipping detail. So made up 241 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:30.639 an address in MAJORCA and it filled all that in 242 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:32.559 with a dummy email address, and then it was able 243 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.360 to find out the actual shipping cost. And then it 244 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:37.440 was able to say, right this is the actual price 245 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:40.320 of it, and then I was able to say do 246 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:42.320 I want to purchase it or not right now? Because 247 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:44.679 it opens up a browser and it does all the work. 248 00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:46.879 It's still just a browser, right, so I want to 249 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:48.720 actually finish the purchasing, I could just go in and 250 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:51.600 press click on the PayPal button and go and buy 251 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:52.679 that table right. 252 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:53.840 After you edit your address. 253 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:55.919 Well I would have to edit the address because they 254 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:59.200 put in a John do. But that's the power of 255 00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:02.000 the MCP. It's basically able to go and open up 256 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:04.799 a browser, do the tasks that you could do yourself 257 00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:06.759 that you don't want to do, and then you can 258 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:08.840 still continue because it's a browser window. 259 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:13.039 Somehing magic exactly, It's just a pre filled in browser window. 260 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:14.759 I got a story for you guys, and I know 261 00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:16.720 I've told it on Dotton it Rocks before, but it's 262 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:20.279 been years. So back in the two thousands, when you know, 263 00:13:21.320 --> 00:13:23.120 back back in the two thousands, that's all I'm going 264 00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:26.840 to say. I was courted by a member of the 265 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:30.399 Connecticut Technology Council. Now I'm in New London, which is 266 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:33.840 in the south eastern Connecticut, and the people in Hartford, 267 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:37.919 they don't like New Londoners, like they're big eastnobby kind 268 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:41.440 of insurance money people and whatever. So this you know, 269 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:44.320 they meet in Hartford, right, So I say, okay, I 270 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:46.559 will go to a meeting. I went to a meeting. 271 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:49.879 I joined the Technology Council whatever, paid my three hundred 272 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:52.240 dollars whatever, and went to one of their meetings. And 273 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:54.559 it was just ridiculous. I mean, and the stuff that 274 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:57.559 they were talking about was like, you know, how to 275 00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:01.759 log in? What is a cookie? Right? So, but they 276 00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:04.799 had a lot of really great members and they had 277 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:08.279 a member's website, and they didn't have a mailing list. 278 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:10.759 And I said, do you guys have a mailing list? No, sorry, 279 00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:13.200 we don't, but all our members are listed on the website. 280 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:17.799 Hmmm goodness. So me being it was a kinder, gentler web. 281 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:22.120 I used real sockets. I didn't even use an HTDP. 282 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:25.320 There was no web client. You literally did a manual get. 283 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:29.120 I did a get on the website, parts looked for 284 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:32.799 the email the email tags that I wanted, logged them, 285 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:35.879 you know, with their names, and blah blah blah. And 286 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:38.840 I said, are you sure you don't I wrote back, 287 00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:40.639 are you sure you don't have a mailing lists. No, 288 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:43.279 we don't have a mailing list. I'm like, would you 289 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:47.879 like one? Because I basically scraped all of the emails 290 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:51.799 and names from your website. It's and he said, like 291 00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:55.919 this is the best response. Well, you're obviously some cracker 292 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:01.080 jack technology program. Like aren't you guys the Connecticut Technology Council. 293 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:05.039 Shouldn't they be looking to you for technology solutions? What 294 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:11.639 are you doing? That's one of my greatest superiority moments. Nice. Yeah, 295 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:16.000 it felt very superior, very clever. But yeah they didn't. 296 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:17.200 Did they send out a mail? 297 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:19.960 No, they didn't invite, But I did send out a 298 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:22.320 mail to all this p and I got some great responses. 299 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:22.960 It was awesome. 300 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:23.759 That's funny. 301 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:28.200 Yeah, this speaks to an interesting path for working with uh. 302 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:31.759 You know you're a copilot of some kind to just 303 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:34.080 be able to go fetch data from from sites through 304 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:34.600 the m CP. 305 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:37.440 Yeah, I mean it can do whatever you want it 306 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:39.600 to do because it is access to the browser, which 307 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:42.840 is what was missing when it came to the l MS. 308 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:44.240 They couldn't open a browser. Now they come. 309 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:46.200 Now they can open a browser and click, they. 310 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:48.080 Can type anything that playwright can do. What can play? 311 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:52.960 Right? Do everything. So this MP MCP is part of 312 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:53.720 play right now? 313 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:55.559 Is that it's just it's a play right MCP. 314 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.039 It's open people, you get it off NPM. 315 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:02.320 Yeah, it's you can just click a button and and 316 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:03.000 it just installs it. 317 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:05.039 I think we're done where this has been dot Net 318 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:09.679 rocks time thinking the amount of trouble we're about to 319 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:12.039 get it. Okay, let's trouble. 320 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:14.399 Let's turn it around, let's turn around. 321 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:16.279 How can we use these powers for good? 322 00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:18.200 Well, we can test our applications. 323 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:19.960 The crazy espec. 324 00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:26.279 What we can actually get it to write the test for. 325 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:29.200 So we're here at build and I've just given a 326 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:32.440 couple of demos live at bill showing how you can 327 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:37.120 using natural language tell it to go to a website, 328 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:39.519 and I did a demo of a movie application. So 329 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:41.559 go to a movie's application, search for a movie and 330 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:43.879 ensure that that movie is on the page, and write 331 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:46.000 the test for it. Now, the thing is, what's the 332 00:16:46.039 --> 00:16:48.759 difference between asking COPA, let's just write a test. It 333 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:51.559 can do it, and it guesses what the buttons are 334 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:53.759 called unless it has access to the code, and it 335 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:56.399 has able to then search to your code base, and 336 00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:59.960 then it can the MCP. No, the MCP actually go 337 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:02.960 to the browser and it opens the browser page and 338 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.640 then it takes a page snapshot, right, and the snapshot 339 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:09.880 has all the context of what that page has on it. 340 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.960 All. Right, we're really talking MCP is the protocol. You're 341 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:14.960 really talking about an agent? Right? 342 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:16.960 Well? Were you just using copilot here? You can use 343 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:17.480 whatever you want. 344 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:21.240 Yeah, this is just think of it as an apik 345 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:23.960 PI to play right, to be able to fetch information 346 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:27.960 the CP to play right, right, which from which. 347 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:30.200 You can do you have to use an agent with 348 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:31.839 this or can you just use it directly? 349 00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:34.200 You just go to copilot. I'm using copilot. You could 350 00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:36.200 use whatever you want, but just let's, you know, go 351 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:39.599 to copilot exactly that that supports mcps. 352 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:41.880 Yeah, that's important. That could be most of them, not 353 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:42.680 all of them, most of. 354 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:46.000 Them, yes, And then you basically ask it what to do. 355 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:48.720 And in my case, I was like, I want you 356 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:51.319 to write a test, but very clearly I said, I 357 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:53.920 don't want you to search the code base. I want 358 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:56.799 you to run the steps. Yes, I want you to 359 00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:59.279 use the MCP, and I want you to then only 360 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:01.720 after you've run all the steps, then create the test. 361 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:03.480 Five I don't have to test my website. Now I 362 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:06.279 can test your website. You can, yeah, because I'm reading 363 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:06.680 the page. 364 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:08.039 You know, it's even better if you if you went 365 00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:11.079 to Amanda's demo, you can actually say, go to this 366 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:14.759 URL and give me some ideas of what I can test. 367 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:16.240 Wow, this is great. 368 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:17.920 And then it came up and it said, oh, so 369 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:19.599 you have filtering on the site that could be good 370 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:21.839 for testing, and then it went ahead and clicked around 371 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:23.960 the filtering and then it went and created that test. 372 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:27.039 That's pretty awesome. So how specific do you have to 373 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:29.079 be if you tell it you want to gather some 374 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:33.839 like Okay, take my example right where you have pages 375 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:36.799 and pages of people of companies that are in this 376 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:39.839 particular organization, and they're all listed with their names and 377 00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:42.039 email addresses, but you have to press next and next 378 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:45.400 and next and next. There's no search. Can it assume 379 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:47.519 how to do that? Can it figure out how to 380 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:47.839 do that? 381 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:49.559 Assume it actually clicks and does it. 382 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:51.480 But you don't have to tell it to do that, right, 383 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:53.519 you know, it goes in. You could just say give 384 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:55.400 me all the names and address of all the people. 385 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:56.960 In them, and it will find the way to do it. So, 386 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:01.400 for example, in my app, it couldn't type the movie 387 00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:03.720 name into the search because the search needs to be 388 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:05.720 clicked on first. So when it went to type right, 389 00:19:05.799 --> 00:19:07.599 which was the logic of there's a search field all 390 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:09.680 type yeah, it went, I can't type in here. It 391 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:12.359 doesn't let me. Let me take a page snapshot. And 392 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:14.240 then once I had the page snapshot, it said, oh, 393 00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:17.440 I see, I need to click the search icon right 394 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:19.839 and then I can continue typing, and then it could continue. 395 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:21.039 So it actually figured it out. 396 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:22.119 By taking the page snapshot. 397 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:25.880 By taking the page snapshot, Wow, that's interesting. I'm my mind. 398 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:29.039 You're immediately going to evil. I hear it in your vote. Yeah, 399 00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:32.559 but you know that Harvey Korman from Blazing Saddles where 400 00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:36.279 he says something like my mind is a swirling vortex 401 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:41.279