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<v Speaker 1>Tell me what you left was like before you died.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm thirty seven years old. I hadn't thought about God

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<v Speaker 1>at all. But I got into this meditation. Hey, let

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<v Speaker 1>me try it. Let me see what it did. Then

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<v Speaker 1>I read it and it, Oh, it very creates peace inside.

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<v Speaker 1>It was very, very peaceful, and I kind of was

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<v Speaker 1>a natural. I felt really really good at it, and

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<v Speaker 1>so I would meditate. And one night I was meditating

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<v Speaker 1>just before going to bed because it calmed me down.

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<v Speaker 1>I had a big day at worked them out, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>The next day and I'm meditating and for some reason,

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<v Speaker 1>when I was sitting on the can looking at a

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<v Speaker 1>candle flame, but I had let all the air out

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<v Speaker 1>of my body. And I don't know why I had

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<v Speaker 1>done that, I just did. And suddenly I was below

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<v Speaker 1>the ceiling looking down at my head and I thought myself,

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, if this is me up here, who's

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<v Speaker 1>that down there? Or to me down there? Who is

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<v Speaker 1>this up here? And I took in a breath and

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<v Speaker 1>I went back in my body and I thought, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>that's cool. Yeah, I wasn't afraid at all. And I

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<v Speaker 1>being a scientist, right, you know, having to prove everything.

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<v Speaker 1>I realized you know, I wouldn't be surprised if I

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<v Speaker 1>let my body because I didn't have any air in son.

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder if that bust and meditation is what made me,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, go, you know, on top of my head.

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<v Speaker 1>I gotta do this again, and I have to do it,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'll keep my breath out longer because I'll bet

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<v Speaker 1>if I stayed out longer, I could have looked around

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<v Speaker 1>more and seen more from outside, so there was no

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<v Speaker 1>fear at all. The next weekend, I decided to try

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<v Speaker 1>it again. My wife is downtown shopping with our daughter.

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<v Speaker 1>My nine year old son is playing in his room.

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<v Speaker 1>I decided, hey, it's a good day to do it,

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<v Speaker 1>to beat my body. So I read out and I

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<v Speaker 1>ride on my bed with my hands folded like this.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm on my stomach, leaning on my elbows, read in

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<v Speaker 1>and out three times, let all the air out, and

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<v Speaker 1>I say, I'm not going to breathe again until I'm unconscious.

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<v Speaker 1>Because I knew that the body will normally bring things now,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't do anything stupid. I put tape on my

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<v Speaker 1>nose or mouth. I mean, you know, I'm not that

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<v Speaker 1>off the all, but I said I'm not going to

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<v Speaker 1>breathe in until I beat my body again like I did,

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<v Speaker 1>you know last week, And the clock goes around once,

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<v Speaker 1>and the second hand goes around again, and I'm beginning

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<v Speaker 1>to get whoa some pain in the body. I begin

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<v Speaker 1>shaking like I'm in an earthquake, and then I feel

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<v Speaker 1>like I am drowning. I get a flood, and I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like I'm burning up in a fire. And I

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<v Speaker 1>later learned that according to the Tibetans in the writing

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<v Speaker 1>the Tibetan Book of the Day, that these are the

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<v Speaker 1>first three steps in leaving your body and dying. You

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<v Speaker 1>lose the earth element, the water element, and then the

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<v Speaker 1>fire element. The next thing is the air element, which

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<v Speaker 1>i'd already left and didn't have inside my lungs. The

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<v Speaker 1>only thing holding me to my body was something called

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<v Speaker 1>the ether element, which sounds pretty nebulous to me. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>There I am, and I'm asking myself, Am I conscious? Am? I?

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<v Speaker 1>If I were unconscious, I'd be breathing. And I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>breathing now, so I won't. And I held it out,

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<v Speaker 1>and I held it out, and the pain got worse,

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<v Speaker 1>and I thought to myself. I suddenly realized I was dying,

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<v Speaker 1>and I said to myself, no, God won't let me

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<v Speaker 1>die while I'm looking for him. And I what, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>what did I just say? But and then I saw

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<v Speaker 1>a little light on the top of my head, and

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<v Speaker 1>it got bigger and bigger, and I thought, oh my gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>that must be the tunnel of going through into the

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<v Speaker 1>light that Raymond Mubidgee wrote about in his book Life

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<v Speaker 1>After Life. And there was another sad thing. My wife's

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<v Speaker 1>sister's husband, a young man, died from childhood diabetes at

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<v Speaker 1>you at a young age. And so she had read

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<v Speaker 1>Life After Life and gave that to me, and I

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<v Speaker 1>had compared it was gee, what if body and mind

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<v Speaker 1>really are separate? That was, you know, the only in

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<v Speaker 1>any event, there I am this tunnel, this light you know,

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<v Speaker 1>gets bigger and bigger, bigger, and I suddenly went through.

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<v Speaker 1>I have not breathed because it's been over three minutes

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<v Speaker 1>and no air in the lungs, and I was in

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<v Speaker 1>a space of brightness, unbelievable, greater, brighter, more incredible than

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<v Speaker 1>anything I could ever believe existed. And further, there were

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<v Speaker 1>a feeling of greater number of dimensions. How do you

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<v Speaker 1>describe but three dimensions pera that was nothing. There are

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<v Speaker 1>so many more, and it was incredible. At this point,

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<v Speaker 1>my body is in such pain. I took a breath

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<v Speaker 1>and I fall off the bed. I start moving, my

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<v Speaker 1>body going around rockets in an epileptic fit. But inside

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<v Speaker 1>I was at such peace has I can't tell you

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<v Speaker 1>the peace, the comfort, the joy, one of the feel inside. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>my body has going crazy on the floor. At this point,

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<v Speaker 1>my wife comes in the room. She is driven home

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<v Speaker 1>from shopping. Our son, who had looked in the room,

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<v Speaker 1>has gone out to meet her at the driveway and

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<v Speaker 1>to put her mind. That's he says, Daddy's not dead.

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<v Speaker 1>Daddy's not dead. Then I'm rolling around. While I'm rolling

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<v Speaker 1>on the floor, you know, in this peaceful thing, I

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<v Speaker 1>can't look. I feel wires pulled out of my head

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<v Speaker 1>like the old telephone switchboard. And then at some point

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<v Speaker 1>they get put back in, but I feel them being

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<v Speaker 1>put back in in a different place. I can't understand

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<v Speaker 1>any of it at the time. And then when I

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<v Speaker 1>can finally control my body, the first thing that happens

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<v Speaker 1>is I am on my knees on the ground. My

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<v Speaker 1>hands are folded like this in front of my face,

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<v Speaker 1>and my birth words are I am reborn. I am

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<v Speaker 1>reborn in God. And I was so embarrassed to hear

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<v Speaker 1>me say that, But my life made a complete right

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<v Speaker 1>turn at that point, and I knew that everything that

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<v Speaker 1>people have said about God it was true. There is

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<v Speaker 1>a greater reality. It may not be out there where

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<v Speaker 1>we can physically prove it by Newton's laws, but it

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<v Speaker 1>does exist. And that's how it happened. That's where my

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<v Speaker 1>life changed. And from that point on everything is different.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

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<v Speaker 1>and now back to the show. And I know what

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<v Speaker 1>I experienced and that's true. And all of this makes

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<v Speaker 1>me feel that I'm on this path that has led

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<v Speaker 1>to the writing of this book. How did I get here?

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<v Speaker 1>The idea that when I was in college, I had

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<v Speaker 1>an experience which seemed like it was meaningless except now

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<v Speaker 1>looking back, and maybe the most important thing that happened

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<v Speaker 1>there was a I was walking across campus and the

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<v Speaker 1>design psychological testing going on five dollars, And in the

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<v Speaker 1>early nineteen sixties, five dollars was a lot of money, man,

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<v Speaker 1>so I had nothing else to do. I went in,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll sign up. I went into all the tests and

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<v Speaker 1>the very last room I went into. These were you know,

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<v Speaker 1>grad students who had a thesis and the needed you know,

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<v Speaker 1>some documentations, you know, for their for their pisis. And

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<v Speaker 1>the very last room I went into there were five

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<v Speaker 1>desks panels with lights on them and red light and

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<v Speaker 1>green light and the buttons underneath. And there were four

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<v Speaker 1>other students who were in there and they said, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>here comes another one. We can do it now, we

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<v Speaker 1>can we hang to do the test, and the professor said, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>he said professor standing in the corner of the room,

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<v Speaker 1>he said, I'm going to push a button. This is

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<v Speaker 1>a test how fast you can go, you know, and

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<v Speaker 1>rer reactions. I'm going to push on. It's going to

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<v Speaker 1>be the same for every panel, and each of you

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<v Speaker 1>pushed the button. If you see green, pushed the button

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<v Speaker 1>under green. You see red pushed the button under red.

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<v Speaker 1>And we're going to keep going faster and faster until

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<v Speaker 1>somebody misses and that'll be the end of the test.

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<v Speaker 1>So we start doing it. Push red, I pushed Green,

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<v Speaker 1>I pushed and then suddenly beat. The professor says, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>somebody made a mistake. And the guy at the end,

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<v Speaker 1>he says, who pushed red. I said, I did. He

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<v Speaker 1>says it was green, you miss. I said, no, it

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't it was red. He said, no, mine was green,

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<v Speaker 1>and the professor said they'd both be the same. I did,

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<v Speaker 1>but mine was red. And the woman over on the

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<v Speaker 1>next side said, well, mine was green, and I don't

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<v Speaker 1>care what yours was. Mine was red. And he said, well,

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<v Speaker 1>you're you're wrong. All of us had green. You had read.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you calling me a liar? I know what I experienced.

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<v Speaker 1>And we started, you know, raised this and went at

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<v Speaker 1>each other, and I suddenly felt my hand, my arms

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<v Speaker 1>held back behind me. It was the professor. He said, easy, son,

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<v Speaker 1>it was red. You were correct. This is not a

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<v Speaker 1>test for how fast you can react. It's a test

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<v Speaker 1>to how you handle peer pressure. You did very well.

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<v Speaker 1>You stood up for what you experience. Now here, take

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<v Speaker 1>this chick, go get your five dollars, and you know

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<v Speaker 1>that's it. Boy. I was sold so upset, and I

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<v Speaker 1>pushed that out of my memory until I had this experience.

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<v Speaker 1>And I even remember sitting, you know, on the couch, crying, why,

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<v Speaker 1>why are or did I have to wait so long

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<v Speaker 1>to learn that you existed? And I heard this little

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<v Speaker 1>voice in my head. We've said, if you knew this

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<v Speaker 1>from the beginning, how could you have shared it with

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<v Speaker 1>people who didn't know it. You've stood on both sides

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<v Speaker 1>of the river. Now you can share that experience. Feeling

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<v Speaker 1>of being of a living, of existing is the same

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<v Speaker 1>when you get rid of all the adjectives that make

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<v Speaker 1>you and me different. When anyone says I am and

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<v Speaker 1>then they said adjective rich, poor, black, white, old, young,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, bah blah blah, whatever it is, male, female,

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<v Speaker 1>They're just adjectives. Get rid of them all. In meditation

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<v Speaker 1>we do this, We get down to the feeling of

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<v Speaker 1>pure existence. It's the same for us all. Why would

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<v Speaker 1>I hurt you if I knew that you were me?

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<v Speaker 1>And that's the decision humanity has to make right now.

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<v Speaker 1>Now are we going to survive? Who knows? Does the creator?

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<v Speaker 1>We're here so that we are you know, can you

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<v Speaker 1>know survive? But I'm sure there are other planets somewhere

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<v Speaker 1>in the galaxies where other living beings. So if this

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<v Speaker 1>one doesn't make it, check that one off. Okay, that

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<v Speaker 1>one didn't work well, but another one will. As each

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<v Speaker 1>level of consciousness has grown, you know, rocks to plants

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<v Speaker 1>to animals to humans. What if one of the reasons

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<v Speaker 1>humans were here was so that we could build a

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<v Speaker 1>housing or consciousness that could survive longer than humans can.

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<v Speaker 1>Who says that consciousness, the feeling of I am, has

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<v Speaker 1>to exist in a piece of meat, in flesh and blood.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe it could exist in metal and silicon and other things.

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<v Speaker 1>Imagine when the sun gets hotter, right, we know that

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to turn into a red giant at some point.

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<v Speaker 1>Creation that we are putting together now I am, you are,

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<v Speaker 1>and we are one. That's the way it should be,

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<v Speaker 1>and we should know that