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<v Speaker 1>Hey Shannon, Hey, pretty girl, how are you doing.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm doing really good. How are you?

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<v Speaker 1>I did not mean that in any kind of way

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<v Speaker 1>by referring to you as girl.

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<v Speaker 2>It's okay.

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<v Speaker 1>That's on a spiritual level that transcends time and space.

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<v Speaker 2>I read you call me a girl, then call me ma'am.

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<v Speaker 1>So I just saw this real where so they're like,

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<v Speaker 1>what's just happened. I was leaving and the guy left

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<v Speaker 1>the door open, and I said thank you, and he

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<v Speaker 1>was like, you're welcome, you fan ugly bitch, and I

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<v Speaker 1>was and then she pauses and he's like, no, he

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<v Speaker 1>said thank you, ma'am.

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<v Speaker 2>But might as well. I was somewhere on the baby

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<v Speaker 2>before yesterday and I bought something and I was getting

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<v Speaker 2>ready to leave and I turned around. I grabbed my

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<v Speaker 2>stuff and I heard excuse me, ma'am, and I thought, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>she's not talking to me. But that was because I

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<v Speaker 2>forgot to sign the slip because I'd used my debit card.

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<v Speaker 2>It has bothered me. Ever, in the past two days,

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<v Speaker 2>I've been thinking, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am. It's just bouncing around

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<v Speaker 2>in my head and I'm just like, really, I look

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<v Speaker 2>like a ma'am.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, we should be embracing ma'am like we finally made

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<v Speaker 1>it to ma'am.

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<v Speaker 2>You have made lots of us.

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<v Speaker 1>Lots of people don't make it to ma'am or what

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<v Speaker 1>is the thing for sir people?

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<v Speaker 2>But sir is yeah, so it's just generic. But I

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't call like a twenty year old sir. You remember

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<v Speaker 2>an absolutely fabulous when somebody would call Patsy and they'd

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<v Speaker 2>be like madame and she's like, Mozelle, madame felle, Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I love pat They went to France, so funny. Damn, Maemoiselle.

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<v Speaker 1>That's hilarious. Yes, tell us girl, you have a good

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<v Speaker 1>story for us.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a pretty gruesome one. So before we get

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<v Speaker 2>into it, I just want to ask everyone to hit

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<v Speaker 2>subscriber follow on whatever app you're listening to. You'll get

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<v Speaker 2>notifications when we have new episodes out. So this one,

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<v Speaker 2>I think is kind of well known. I've heard of

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<v Speaker 2>it before, but I'm thinking maybe I've only heard of

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<v Speaker 2>it because I'm a sick fuck. I don't know, So

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to get into it. On May seventh, two

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<v Speaker 2>thousand and seven, a man from the town of Kurum

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<v Speaker 2>in the Czech Republic called the police. He had set

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<v Speaker 2>up a video baby monitor an attempt to have it

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<v Speaker 2>prepared for when his partner got home from the hospital

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<v Speaker 2>with their newborn daughter. So he's busy setting this up. However,

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<v Speaker 2>when he turned it on, the video that was going

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't coming from his house. The video he was seeing

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<v Speaker 2>was of a small boy naked and hogtied in a

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<v Speaker 2>tiny empty room, laying face down on a concrete floor. So,

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<v Speaker 2>of course he calls the police, and when the police arrived,

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<v Speaker 2>they quickly discovered that the video feed was coming from

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<v Speaker 2>the flat next door from where the man was living.

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<v Speaker 2>So police go over there. They knock, and the women

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<v Speaker 2>occupying the flat were really less than cooperative, but the

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<v Speaker 2>police did manage to make their way in and they

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<v Speaker 2>eventually found the small cellar where they discovered a seven

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<v Speaker 2>year old boy named Andre. After untying him and bringing

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<v Speaker 2>him to the ambulance, he began answering questions for the police.

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<v Speaker 2>During his first interview, he told the officers that it

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<v Speaker 2>all started when they met their adopted sister Anishka, So

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna call her Anna, okay. Klara Maova had been

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<v Speaker 2>described as a good mother by her younger sister, Gabriella,

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<v Speaker 2>her parents, and her professors at university, who met the

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<v Speaker 2>boys often when she would bring them on school trips.

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<v Speaker 2>Yakub was older than Andre by two years, so Clara

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<v Speaker 2>has these two sons, Cub and Andre. Clara would play

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<v Speaker 2>with their children, take them on vacation, and she was

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<v Speaker 2>an affectionate parent. No one was concerned about her ability

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<v Speaker 2>or desire to care for her children. Over time, though,

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<v Speaker 2>her behavior became more erratic and unstable, leading to her

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<v Speaker 2>separation and eventual divorce from her husband. She was described

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<v Speaker 2>as being gullible, naive, and easily manipulated. Clara was thirty

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<v Speaker 2>one years old when she moved in with her older

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<v Speaker 2>sister Katerina after her divorce and as a young mother.

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<v Speaker 2>Clara was working toward her degree in teaching, and she

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<v Speaker 2>had a job working with Katerina at the youth center

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<v Speaker 2>that she ran. In the summer of two thousand and five,

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<v Speaker 2>Katerina approached Clara about a young girl, a Norwegian orphan

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<v Speaker 2>named Anna. Katerina was wondering if Clara could look after

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<v Speaker 2>her since she was doing so well raising her boys.

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<v Speaker 2>Katerina described anna situation to her sister, telling her that

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<v Speaker 2>the girl was ill and traumatized. Over time, Anna opened

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<v Speaker 2>up to Clara, telling her about her life after her

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<v Speaker 2>parent's death. She had been in an orphanage where she

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<v Speaker 2>had been sold to a pedophile ring in doorway. She

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<v Speaker 2>was traumatized after being raised in a violent environment consisting

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<v Speaker 2>of physical and sexual abuse. Clara looked over her file

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<v Speaker 2>and learned she was suffering from a variety of illnesses,

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<v Speaker 2>including leukemia, epilepsy, and kidney failure, which required regular hospitalizations

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<v Speaker 2>for the administration of different medications and treatments. The doctor

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<v Speaker 2>stated she would be lucky to live to the age

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<v Speaker 2>of sixteen. Clara decided to welcome her into the house

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<v Speaker 2>around September two thousand and five, and this is when

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<v Speaker 2>life changed for Andre and Yaka. Clara cared for Anna

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<v Speaker 2>at the instructions of her doctor, who would use text

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<v Speaker 2>and email to communicate. When they met in person, it

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<v Speaker 2>would be late at night in his car, so she

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<v Speaker 2>never really got to see his face. The doctor told

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<v Speaker 2>Clara that in order for Anna to heal from her

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<v Speaker 2>past trauma, she was going to have to feel completely

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<v Speaker 2>at home. Clara needed to lavish Anna with praise and attention,

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<v Speaker 2>and reassurance. He had also diagnosed her with a condition

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<v Speaker 2>that caused spinal fluid to build up, but he said

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<v Speaker 2>it could be treated with massage therapy. One of the

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<v Speaker 2>treatments prescribed for Clara to perform on Anna to assist

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<v Speaker 2>this condition was to rub all over her body, especially

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<v Speaker 2>the intimate areas, in order to desensitize and reprogram her

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<v Speaker 2>past sexual trauma. As Anna began to improve, the care

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<v Speaker 2>of Clara's sons began to fall away, taking care of

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<v Speaker 2>Anna became an obsession. Clara would often send her boys

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<v Speaker 2>to stay with their grandparents while she was busy caring

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<v Speaker 2>for this girl, who she was beginning to consider her daughter.

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<v Speaker 2>Katerina had been taking Anna to her chemotherapy, and her

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<v Speaker 2>doctor would continue to treat her remotely, sending care instructions

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<v Speaker 2>by text and email. Clara would authorize or perform whatever

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<v Speaker 2>he suggested. It didn't take long before Clara said she

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to adopt the girl. By the summer of two

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<v Speaker 2>thousand and six, Clara had been working to adopt Anna

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<v Speaker 2>without success for almost nine months. Anna's doctors began expressing

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<v Speaker 2>concern about the family situation. Anna had told him that

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<v Speaker 2>Andrea and Yakub were mean to her. He felt she

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<v Speaker 2>would not ever be part of the family if they

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<v Speaker 2>didn't accept her. The doctor suggested using corporal punishment on

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<v Speaker 2>her son's to make them behave They had quote evil

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<v Speaker 2>spirits end quote, and their mother needed to cure them

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<v Speaker 2>with strong discipline, tough love, and physical punishment. Beginning in

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<v Speaker 2>July two thousand and six, Clara started looking for any

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<v Speaker 2>excuse to beat her boys with her bare hands, wooden spoons,

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<v Speaker 2>and belt buckles. She would have them kneel for hours

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<v Speaker 2>at a time, or threaten to lock them in small

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<v Speaker 2>rooms or cupboards, where they would be left with no food, water,

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<v Speaker 2>or access to a toilet. At night, they would sleep

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<v Speaker 2>on a mat on the floor. They were isolated from

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<v Speaker 2>other members of their family and friends, and this continued

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<v Speaker 2>for about five weeks. By August two thousand and six,

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<v Speaker 2>An his doctors ordered Clara to take her sons to

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<v Speaker 2>a small cottage in Versa Betiska and I probably said that.

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<v Speaker 1>Wrong sounded like a song to my ears.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my dear great, I know, thank you You're in

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<v Speaker 2>the secluded cabin there they would re educate the boys.

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<v Speaker 2>In late August, Andre and Yakub arrived at the property,

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<v Speaker 2>surrounded by trees which worked to block the view from

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<v Speaker 2>all sides. Their aunt, Katerina was already there. Katerina had

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<v Speaker 2>two dog cages with her, one for each brother. They

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<v Speaker 2>would be locked in the dog kennels during their time there.

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<v Speaker 2>The cajas were too small for the boys to stand

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<v Speaker 2>up in or move around, fed scraps of food, and

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<v Speaker 2>were not released to use the bathroom, forcing them to

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<v Speaker 2>lay in their own urine and excrement, and they were

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<v Speaker 2>forbidden from making any noise without having the threat of

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<v Speaker 2>violence held over them. The first night when the re

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<v Speaker 2>education quote unquote began, the boys were blindfolded, they were restrained,

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<v Speaker 2>and they were beaten by their mother and their aunt.

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<v Speaker 2>Andrea and Yakub were held under water until they believed

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<v Speaker 2>they would drown. Their mother scratched and stabbed the boys

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<v Speaker 2>with a fork. The children were made to memorize offensive

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<v Speaker 2>and adult sayings, and they would be punished if they

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<v Speaker 2>didn't get the words correct when asked to repeat the phrases.

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<v Speaker 2>Anna was kept separate from Yakub and Andrea. She was

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<v Speaker 2>being appropriately doted on for the doctor's orders. When she

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<v Speaker 2>asked if Yakub and Andrea were mean to her, did

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<v Speaker 2>she feel at home? Anna accused Andrea of hurting her,

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<v Speaker 2>causing him to be particularly targeted by the abusers, who

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<v Speaker 2>were regularly receiving orders from the doctor over text an email.

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<v Speaker 2>Clara reported to him that Andre wasn't responding to the

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<v Speaker 2>re education plan, so he told her exactly what to

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<v Speaker 2>do next. The next time Yakub asked for a glass

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<v Speaker 2>of water, Clara handed it to Andre to give to

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<v Speaker 2>his brother. He did as he was told, and Yakub

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<v Speaker 2>drake from the glass. Then Clara and Katerina took Yakub away,

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<v Speaker 2>leaving Andre scared, confused and alone. When Clara returned, she

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<v Speaker 2>told Andre that the water he gave to his brother

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<v Speaker 2>was poisoned. At this point, she took Andre out into

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<v Speaker 2>the backyard and showed him his brother's lifeless body in

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<v Speaker 2>a freshly dug grave. But she said if Andre behaved

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<v Speaker 2>himself and followed all the instructions, Yakub could be brought

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<v Speaker 2>back to life. Andre promised to be good, and Yakob

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<v Speaker 2>stood up after he drank the water. Yakub had been

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<v Speaker 2>brought upstairs and told to pretend to be dead until

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<v Speaker 2>Andre promised to be good. This is so fucked.

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<v Speaker 1>This is fucking horrible. Now, and this is two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>and six, two thousand and seven.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is like twenty years ago. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds like some medievals. Dumb shit, dumb right, people

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<v Speaker 1>can't think critically.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, it's just horrific. The next instructions the doctors

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<v Speaker 2>gave to Clara were straight out of a horror movie.

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<v Speaker 2>He told Clara she was going to have to burn

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<v Speaker 2>Andre's buttocks, cut off a piece of his flesh, and

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<v Speaker 2>feed it to the boy.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>At this requirement, Clara began to resist. The doctor assured

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<v Speaker 2>her that the re education procedures he was asking her

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<v Speaker 2>to perform were scientifically prove it. This is going to work.

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<v Speaker 2>They were almost through the whole program. Clara refused. The

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<v Speaker 2>doctor expressed his disappointment, but said there was another way,

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<v Speaker 2>and she was asked to leave the cottage. Clara and

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<v Speaker 2>Anna left to return home, but before they left, Clara

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<v Speaker 2>authorized the doctor's backup abuse cal to do whatever was ordered.

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<v Speaker 2>Katerina would wait for them to arrive. The backup team

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<v Speaker 2>consisted of Yans Turik and I'm gonna call him Turik,

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<v Speaker 2>Khans Skurla and I will call him Yans and Hannah Basova,

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<v Speaker 2>who Andrea and Jakub knew as Anti Nisi. So we

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<v Speaker 2>have Turik, Yans and Anti Nissi. Okay, they're the what

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<v Speaker 2>did you call them? The cavalry, the abuse cavalry. Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Each of them was closely connected to Katerina's youth center.

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<v Speaker 2>Hans and Anti Nissi were scout leaders. Turik was a

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<v Speaker 2>friend of Jan's who occasionally worked at the youth center

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<v Speaker 2>as an assistant. Upon their arrival, Katerina greeted them, thank

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<v Speaker 2>them from the work they were about to do, and Sheila.

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<v Speaker 2>When the front door shot, the children were quickly gagged, stripped, restained, mutilated,

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<v Speaker 2>and tortured. Per the duct orders. The re education would

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<v Speaker 2>take eight days. So note after that one instance of

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<v Speaker 2>suggested cannibalism, it isn't discussed again. I don't believe that

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<v Speaker 2>cannibalism took place in this case. Okay. When Clara was

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<v Speaker 2>told by the doctor that it was time to return

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<v Speaker 2>to get Yakub and Andre, she entered the cottage, knelt

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<v Speaker 2>next to her young children and told them that if

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<v Speaker 2>they ever told anyone what happened at the cottage, she

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<v Speaker 2>would bring them back there. When they left, Clara took

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<v Speaker 2>Anna back to their home and continued attempting to get

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<v Speaker 2>her adopted through the courts. The boys were sent with

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<v Speaker 2>Katerina Anti Nissi and Yans. They took the boys to

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<v Speaker 2>an after school clubhouse where Katerina, Anti Nissi and Jans

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes worked as group leaders. They kept Yakub and Andre

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<v Speaker 2>separated and continued abusing them. Clara never visited and the

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<v Speaker 2>boys were never allowed to see or speak to other

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<v Speaker 2>family members. The adoption was very much Clara's focus, and

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<v Speaker 2>Katerina was very involved in that process. One of the

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<v Speaker 2>issues Anna was having in the adoption process was a

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<v Speaker 2>lack of identification. Katerina and Clara went in front of

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<v Speaker 2>the courts to explain the need for Anna to be adopted,

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<v Speaker 2>telling them having identification would make it easier for her

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<v Speaker 2>to obtain her medical treatments. The courts agreed. They required

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<v Speaker 2>Anna to go through the age ratification process in order

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<v Speaker 2>to have a birthday to put on the documents, and

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<v Speaker 2>this process would take months. On September tenth, two thousand

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<v Speaker 2>and six, Andre turned seven. Just a month later, on

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<v Speaker 2>October sixth Yakub turned nine. Around this time, Anna's age

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00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:43.679
<v Speaker 2>ratification was completed. She was found to be thirteen or

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<v Speaker 2>fourteen years old. The paperwork needed for Clara to obtain

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<v Speaker 2>an adoption hearing was complete. Four months into the boy's

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<v Speaker 2>imprisonment in the clubhouse. Something changed. In January two thousand

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<v Speaker 2>and seven, Clara moved her family into a home arranged

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<v Speaker 2>and paid for by Anna's doctors. Around the same time,

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00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:04.840
<v Speaker 2>Andrea was moved out of the clubhouse and into this

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<v Speaker 2>home with his mother and Anna and Kiram the Czech Republic.

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00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Yakub would stay with Katerina Yan's and Anti Nissi. Occasionally,

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<v Speaker 2>Yakub would be allowed to go to school, but he

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<v Speaker 2>was constantly threatened against saying anything about the abuse. Fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>kilometers away, Andrea was being kept in a small, windowless

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00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:29.039
<v Speaker 2>cupboard in Clara's home. Anna's adoption hearing took place on

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<v Speaker 2>March twenty six, two thousand and seven, and the adoption

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<v Speaker 2>was approved that day. She was now Anna Moriova. On

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<v Speaker 2>Monday May seventh, two thousand and seven, that's when that

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00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:43.919
<v Speaker 2>neighbor called to file the police report. He'd been, like

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<v Speaker 2>I said, attempted to connect a baby monitor and intercepted

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00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:51.279
<v Speaker 2>the feed from Clara's house. The recording distance of the

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00:15:51.320 --> 00:15:54.320
<v Speaker 2>monitor was about thirty to fifteen meters, so when the

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<v Speaker 2>police arrived, they knew the feed had to be coming

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<v Speaker 2>from a neighboring house. An officer in the room recognized

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<v Speaker 2>the song being played in the background of the video.

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<v Speaker 2>Turning down the noise of the video, the officers pressed

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00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:09.799
<v Speaker 2>cups to the walls, amplifying the sound to hear what

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00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:13.279
<v Speaker 2>was being played in the neighboring apartments, And so they

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00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:15.960
<v Speaker 2>heard the song in the video, you know, And that's

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<v Speaker 2>how they discovered that it was the apartment. Knocking on

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<v Speaker 2>the front door of the home, like I said, the

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<v Speaker 2>two sisters answered, they refused police entry, and even though

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't have a search warrant, the police considered this

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00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:34.240
<v Speaker 2>situation to be exceptional, so they decided to just go in,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's when they saw the storage cabinet with padlock

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00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:41.840
<v Speaker 2>on it. The police asked Clara and Katerina to produce

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<v Speaker 2>the key, which they refused to do, so the police

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00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:47.759
<v Speaker 2>began trying to remove the lock themselves. The women pushed

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00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:50.759
<v Speaker 2>into the way. A scuffle ensued between the two parties

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<v Speaker 2>and a young girl in her pajamas came in the

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<v Speaker 2>room yelling Mama, mama. She began holding onto the officer's

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<v Speaker 2>leg to hinder their effort to unlock the door. But

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the police ended up.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, we're talking about the Czech Republic police. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 1>that's sugar. They're going to get what they need.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The spell that emanated from the small cellar was horrendous.

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00:17:14.599 --> 00:17:19.720
<v Speaker 2>The order of urine, feces and vomit was overwhelming. Next door,

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<v Speaker 2>Edward was watching the scene unfold from his baby monitor.

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<v Speaker 2>Right when the police started knocking on the front door,

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00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:29.039
<v Speaker 2>the video went dark, as if someone had turned off

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00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:31.480
<v Speaker 2>the light in the room. When the door was opened

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00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:34.240
<v Speaker 2>to search downstairs, that's when the video came back on

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00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:37.720
<v Speaker 2>and he could see the naked, restrained boy being lifted

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00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:40.720
<v Speaker 2>up by the police and having his restraints removed. And

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00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:44.359
<v Speaker 2>Andrey was then taken to that waiting ambulance. The seven

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00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:46.480
<v Speaker 2>year old told officers that he was kept in the

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00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:49.480
<v Speaker 2>cupboard under the stairs while his mother and sister lived

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00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:52.319
<v Speaker 2>freely throughout the house. The other women in the home

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00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:56.759
<v Speaker 2>was his aunt, who visited often, Aunt Katerina. Neither Clara

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00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:00.680
<v Speaker 2>nor Katerina inquired about Andrey's well being after he was rescued,

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<v Speaker 2>Clara was arrested for child abuse of Andre and nine

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00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:07.640
<v Speaker 2>year old Yakub, who was located. Later that evening, all

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00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:09.720
<v Speaker 2>three of her children were taken into custody at a

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00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:13.599
<v Speaker 2>children's home. Initially it appeared as if the boys were adjusting,

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00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:16.839
<v Speaker 2>but Andre was taken to the hospital that first night

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00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:22.079
<v Speaker 2>after exhibiting signs of PTSD and an anxiety disorder. Later,

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00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:25.799
<v Speaker 2>when bedchecks were done, Yakub was spotted sleeping in his bed,

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<v Speaker 2>but Anna had vanished. She had been withdrawn upon being

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00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:32.880
<v Speaker 2>removed from her mother's care, and she seemed to be

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00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:38.519
<v Speaker 2>unsettled at the shelter. Officers searched for Anna, utilizing their resources.

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00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:42.000
<v Speaker 2>People took to the news to hear suspensions from an

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00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.440
<v Speaker 2>employee at the children's shelter that she had been kidnapped.

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00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:50.039
<v Speaker 2>They vocalized concerns about how fragile her health was and

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<v Speaker 2>how was she going to handle the cold spring weather

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00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:55.519
<v Speaker 2>of the Czech Republic. The room had been searched for clues,

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00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:58.000
<v Speaker 2>and it appeared she had left out the window. The

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00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:00.720
<v Speaker 2>staff explained the window would not have been able to

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00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:03.720
<v Speaker 2>be opened by a child. Anna would have needed an

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00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.440
<v Speaker 2>adult to assist her. Yakab remained at the children's shelter

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00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.119
<v Speaker 2>alone and was mostly left to his own devices. One day,

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00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:13.559
<v Speaker 2>while watching TV, he saw pictures of his brother in

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00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:17.160
<v Speaker 2>captivity flash across the screen with the statement Andre gave

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00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:21.920
<v Speaker 2>police detailing his ordeal. Yakab watched as his brother's statement

324
00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.440
<v Speaker 2>played and listened to him when Andre said that he

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00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:27.279
<v Speaker 2>had been abused for a long time and by more

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00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:30.519
<v Speaker 2>people than just his mother. It took Yakub a little

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00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:33.359
<v Speaker 2>longer to be as open, but as time passed he

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00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:36.960
<v Speaker 2>felt comfortable telling the staff at the children's home that

329
00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:39.799
<v Speaker 2>the same had been for him. The marks all over

330
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.319
<v Speaker 2>their bodies found when the boys were rescued told the story.

331
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:47.839
<v Speaker 2>Both had burns, scratches, and scars all over them. It

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00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:51.599
<v Speaker 2>was obvious the boys had been through significant trauma that

333
00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:56.079
<v Speaker 2>would require long term psychological care. Evaluations would make it

334
00:19:56.119 --> 00:20:01.920
<v Speaker 2>clear they struggled with feelings of loneliness, isolation, guilt, and abandonment.

335
00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:08.200
<v Speaker 2>That they had difficulty concentrating, and exhibited signs of PTSD, anxiety,

336
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:12.599
<v Speaker 2>and other developmental mood and sleep disorders. Within days of

337
00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:16.880
<v Speaker 2>their rescue, Yakub started school, attending class in person. Andre

338
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:20.319
<v Speaker 2>would begin school through a homeschool program at the children's home.

339
00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:25.480
<v Speaker 2>Nine days after Anna disappeared, three identical envelopes arrived at

340
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:30.440
<v Speaker 2>the Bernau Ombudsman, the local newspaper, and the office of

341
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:34.279
<v Speaker 2>the Czech Republic's president. She had put a photocopy of

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00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:38.519
<v Speaker 2>the same nine page handwritten letter in each envelope, dated

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00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:44.240
<v Speaker 2>six days earlier, signed Anna Moriova. In the letter, she

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00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:46.759
<v Speaker 2>requested people and not to come looking for her, but

345
00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:49.240
<v Speaker 2>she did have things to say about life with her family.

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00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:52.920
<v Speaker 2>She said that Andre would torment and threaten her, mostly

347
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:55.119
<v Speaker 2>at night when no one would be around to witness

348
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:57.880
<v Speaker 2>his behavior. The five year old yes.

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00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:05.240
<v Speaker 1>Tea yeah, well geared yes. When she first arrived, I

350
00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:10.119
<v Speaker 1>was tormented by in you're eight years fucking apart. Time

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00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:11.759
<v Speaker 1>go ahead, right.

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00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:16.039
<v Speaker 2>She said he would lash out, targeting her and threatening

353
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<v Speaker 2>her to stay quiet when he told her that she'd

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00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:20.039
<v Speaker 2>be taken away if she spoke up.

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00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:24.960
<v Speaker 1>I can't even keep a straight face. Threatening the older sibling.

356
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<v Speaker 1>She'll be th Yeah, a tantrum. You mean he had

357
00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:28.279
<v Speaker 1>a tantrum.

358
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:33.039
<v Speaker 2>I know he lashed out, lashed out. Anna defended Clara,

359
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:36.680
<v Speaker 2>saying she was a good mother. According to Anna, even

360
00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:41.640
<v Speaker 2>though he exhibited such poor behavior. Andre was not at

361
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<v Speaker 2>all abused. He was never locked away for extended periods

362
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:47.319
<v Speaker 2>of time. I guess that's why the police found him

363
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:47.920
<v Speaker 2>in the cellar.

364
00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:49.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah hog tied?

365
00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:55.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah kid and does that right? Oh, that he's been

366
00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:58.519
<v Speaker 2>there a while, Anna said. Clara pleaded with the boys

367
00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:02.480
<v Speaker 2>to treat Anna nicely. Both Clara and Anna were fearful

368
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:06.720
<v Speaker 2>that Andre's behavior would compromise the ability of Clara to

369
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:10.559
<v Speaker 2>adopt the girl. In the letter, Anna said that she

370
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:13.440
<v Speaker 2>fled the shelter only when she learned her mother could

371
00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:16.759
<v Speaker 2>be imprisoned for nine years. It didn't indicate where she

372
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:19.599
<v Speaker 2>had gone, and the only clue from the postage showed

373
00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:23.599
<v Speaker 2>the letter was sent from a town just north of Burnout.

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<v Speaker 2>The President of the Czech Republic announced his disbelief that

375
00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:30.680
<v Speaker 2>the letter was written by a teenager. The collegists agreed

376
00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:33.359
<v Speaker 2>it was more likely that Anna had received help from

377
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:36.000
<v Speaker 2>an adult to write the letter and to deliver it

378
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:40.119
<v Speaker 2>to the post office. Forensic investigator searched Anna's room at

379
00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:43.519
<v Speaker 2>the shelter, looking for clues on who helped her with

380
00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:46.720
<v Speaker 2>her escape. When the surfaces were swabbed, a sample of

381
00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:49.720
<v Speaker 2>unknown DNA was found When it was tested, it was

382
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:54.400
<v Speaker 2>found to be a familial match to Yahn's the man

383
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:57.240
<v Speaker 2>who had joined in the abuse at the cottage and

384
00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:01.759
<v Speaker 2>continued the abuse at the clubhouse. The DNA in Anna's

385
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:07.240
<v Speaker 2>room belonged to his older sister, Barbara Suerlova. Like your brother,

386
00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:11.519
<v Speaker 2>Barboa worked at Katerina's youth center. The amount of DNA

387
00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:14.160
<v Speaker 2>in the room at the children's home indicated that Barboa

388
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:17.119
<v Speaker 2>had to have lived there for a number of days.

389
00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:21.599
<v Speaker 2>Though Barboa's whereabouts were unknown, authorities were certain she was

390
00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:25.559
<v Speaker 2>with Anna. This is so fucking weird it is. This

391
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:28.799
<v Speaker 2>case is fascinating just because how weird it is. It's

392
00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:34.279
<v Speaker 2>just crazy anyway. The teen's disappearance was pushed extensively throughout

393
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:37.440
<v Speaker 2>Czech Republic on all types of media, showing pictures of

394
00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Clara with Anna on her left. Anna is wearing glasses,

395
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:44.599
<v Speaker 2>her eyes downcast, and her hair in pigtail French braids.

396
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Days passed before a staff member from Katerina's youth center

397
00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:51.960
<v Speaker 2>phoned the police. She reported she had seen the pictures

398
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:54.920
<v Speaker 2>of Anna that were being circulated. The person next to

399
00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Clara and the picture was not a thirteen year old

400
00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.799
<v Speaker 2>girl named Anna it was a woman who had worked

401
00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:03.119
<v Speaker 2>at Katerina's youth center for the last seven years. It

402
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:08.200
<v Speaker 2>was Barboa Sharlova. This is bizarre, right this yeah, this is.

403
00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:11.720
<v Speaker 1>An onion man. This is now low thin skin. Yes.

404
00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:15.640
<v Speaker 2>Barboa was the oldest of three children, Barboa. We'll just

405
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.680
<v Speaker 2>call her Barbara, okay, I'm sure and massacring it. She

406
00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:21.039
<v Speaker 2>was the oldest of three children, being raised by an

407
00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:25.400
<v Speaker 2>alcoholic mother and a father who chose his work as

408
00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:29.240
<v Speaker 2>a boy's youth group leader over his family. Barb began

409
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:32.319
<v Speaker 2>spending a lot of time out nature. She preferred the

410
00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:35.839
<v Speaker 2>solace it provided over the complications of dealing with people

411
00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:39.400
<v Speaker 2>I kind of relate totally. Throughout her childhood, she was

412
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:44.400
<v Speaker 2>treated for various neurological and cardiac conditions, including epilepsy, as

413
00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:49.480
<v Speaker 2>well as having been diagnosed with a slow pituitary gland

414
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:53.960
<v Speaker 2>which inhibited her ability to age. When Barbara was in

415
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:58.000
<v Speaker 2>her early twenties, she met Katerina Mariova. The two became

416
00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:01.640
<v Speaker 2>friends and eventually moved in together, leading Barb and her

417
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:06.279
<v Speaker 2>youngest brother, John's, working at Katerina's youth center in two

418
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:09.640
<v Speaker 2>thousand and five, with the assistance of Katerina Barbi began

419
00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:12.359
<v Speaker 2>creating a new identity for herself as a thirteen year

420
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:16.720
<v Speaker 2>old girl named Anna. The identity included a traumatic backstory

421
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:21.480
<v Speaker 2>for their teenage identity in the hopes of garnering compassion

422
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:24.720
<v Speaker 2>from people. It could also make it more difficult to disprove.

423
00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:28.559
<v Speaker 2>Barb starved herself for months to be able to portray

424
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:32.640
<v Speaker 2>the appearance of a sickly teen, ultimately losing half her weight.

425
00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:36.680
<v Speaker 2>She wore children's clothes, hats, and glasses, you know, to

426
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:39.680
<v Speaker 2>make herself look like a teenager. Yeah, and then in

427
00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:42.559
<v Speaker 2>the summer of two thousand and five, Katerina introduced her

428
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:45.880
<v Speaker 2>to her sister Clara. Barr played the character of Anna

429
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:50.480
<v Speaker 2>perfectly every day for the next two years, sharing heartbreaking

430
00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:53.480
<v Speaker 2>stories about the deaths of her parents, how she was

431
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:57.200
<v Speaker 2>sold to a pedophile, ring about all of her health struggles.

432
00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:01.119
<v Speaker 2>Everything was made up, down to her louki me a diagnosis.

433
00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:05.240
<v Speaker 2>The medical documentation provided to Clara by her sister upon

434
00:26:05.319 --> 00:26:09.799
<v Speaker 2>introducing Anna into the family were all fake. Katerina would

435
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:15.200
<v Speaker 2>regularly collect Barb from Clara's house for her quote unquote, chemotherapy.

436
00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:18.920
<v Speaker 2>When she returned Anna, Anna would be weak with a

437
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.079
<v Speaker 2>blanket on and tubes sticking out of her. It was

438
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.680
<v Speaker 2>all an act. Anna's doctors never even existed. While it

439
00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:31.559
<v Speaker 2>was never conclusively established, it was believed that Barb's brother

440
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:36.640
<v Speaker 2>Yans played that role, possibly having disguised himself and produced

441
00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:40.400
<v Speaker 2>fake credentials when he met Clara. Medical file he had

442
00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:43.400
<v Speaker 2>been given to Clara to read was also fake. So

443
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:47.200
<v Speaker 2>all those instructions about abusing her sons, and all of

444
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:52.519
<v Speaker 2>that from the doctor, that was all possibly Yan's. All

445
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.240
<v Speaker 2>the legal assistants over the course of the adoption provided

446
00:26:56.279 --> 00:27:01.519
<v Speaker 2>by the Deputy ambudsman, the medicalists since provided by doctors

447
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:04.960
<v Speaker 2>who examined Anna and submitted reports to the court. The

448
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:08.319
<v Speaker 2>judge who approved the adoption and gave Anna her legal identity,

449
00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:12.039
<v Speaker 2>had all been deceived, and the judge had made her

450
00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:15.759
<v Speaker 2>decision on the adoption based on false medical records. The

451
00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:18.680
<v Speaker 2>doctors who had examined Anna during the age of raification

452
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:22.079
<v Speaker 2>process had taken X rays and samples of her DNA.

453
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:25.559
<v Speaker 2>The doctor concluding the exam had correctly determined that the

454
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:29.680
<v Speaker 2>individual present was between thirteen and fourteen years old. However,

455
00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:32.960
<v Speaker 2>their patient had not been barbed. Katerina had duped a

456
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.839
<v Speaker 2>friend and used their teenage daughter to impersonate Anna during

457
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:39.720
<v Speaker 2>the assessment. Clara was aware of this con and went

458
00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:42.640
<v Speaker 2>along with it based on the doctor's advice. She was

459
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:44.480
<v Speaker 2>told at the time that if they didn't do this,

460
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:48.319
<v Speaker 2>the courts would discover Anna's leukemia and the adoption would

461
00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:51.480
<v Speaker 2>be denied right away. Over the course of the investigation,

462
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:54.640
<v Speaker 2>it was discovered that all the Texan emails from Anna's

463
00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:59.079
<v Speaker 2>doctors were found to have originated from accounts belonging to Katerina.

464
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:02.799
<v Speaker 2>Every single instruction on how to abuse Yakab and Andre

465
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:06.079
<v Speaker 2>had come from their own aunt. While Barb egged it on,

466
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:09.640
<v Speaker 2>claiming the boys were harming her, Clara insisted she was

467
00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:13.440
<v Speaker 2>oblivious to the deceit perpetrated by her sister. She had

468
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:16.880
<v Speaker 2>no idea her cancer stricken teenage daughter was a woman

469
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:17.839
<v Speaker 2>in her thirties.

470
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh.

471
00:28:19.799 --> 00:28:24.240
<v Speaker 2>Her parents and her younger sister, Gabriella, condemned Katerina and

472
00:28:24.279 --> 00:28:27.960
<v Speaker 2>came to Clara's defense. Katerina had kept Clara in a

473
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:30.480
<v Speaker 2>constant state of fear when she was led to believe

474
00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:33.839
<v Speaker 2>that if she didn't follow those orders, Anna would die.

475
00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Clara and Katerina faced abuse and torture charges as did

476
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:43.440
<v Speaker 2>the children's shelter employees, Turik Jan's and Anti Nissi. Barb

477
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:47.119
<v Speaker 2>was still missing. On Friday June fifteenth, about five weeks

478
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:50.920
<v Speaker 2>after the shelter home discovered Anna gone, Barb appeared at

479
00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:55.079
<v Speaker 2>the Chuck Embassy in Copenhagen, having been hiding in the

480
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.640
<v Speaker 2>city for about a month. She was with her father

481
00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:01.960
<v Speaker 2>and two journalists upound request yes she provided id hair

482
00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:05.799
<v Speaker 2>and saliva samples to prove her identity. After Barbara her

483
00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:09.920
<v Speaker 2>entourage left, the embassy contacted the authorities at the Czech Republic,

484
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:13.400
<v Speaker 2>after which Barbara ranged an interview with the newspaper. During

485
00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:16.680
<v Speaker 2>the interview, the woman admitted to enjoying her life as Anna.

486
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:19.599
<v Speaker 2>She liked how people treated her after she took on

487
00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:23.119
<v Speaker 2>the identity, and she was happier and more comfortable being Anna.

488
00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:26.119
<v Speaker 2>Barb preferred the way people treated her when they thought

489
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:29.799
<v Speaker 2>she was young. As the interview continued, Barb disclosed the

490
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:33.680
<v Speaker 2>original purpose behind the ruse created by her in Katerina.

491
00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:36.759
<v Speaker 2>It was to supervise the children at the youth center

492
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:40.000
<v Speaker 2>while blending in with them. Eventually, the women made the

493
00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:43.119
<v Speaker 2>choice to insert the character into Clara's life and family.

494
00:29:43.559 --> 00:29:46.960
<v Speaker 2>Barba denied that Clara abused her sons. She claimed that

495
00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:49.319
<v Speaker 2>Andre had only been locked up for a short time

496
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:52.839
<v Speaker 2>before he was discovered, a claim which would be contradicted

497
00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:56.400
<v Speaker 2>by Clara on the stand in court. She said outside

498
00:29:56.480 --> 00:29:58.759
<v Speaker 2>of when he had been found locked in that cupboard,

499
00:29:59.079 --> 00:30:03.359
<v Speaker 2>Andre had only and disciplined one other occasion, and she

500
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:06.359
<v Speaker 2>had little sympathy for the seven year old, implying his

501
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:10.960
<v Speaker 2>treatment was deserved. She said Andrea had beaten both her

502
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:14.759
<v Speaker 2>and Jakub, the seven year old, the youngest, beat his

503
00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:19.079
<v Speaker 2>older brother and Anna. She couldn't explain what prompted the attack,

504
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:22.559
<v Speaker 2>and went on to claim Andrea had enormous power. After

505
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:25.960
<v Speaker 2>that interview, Barb would go on to disappear again. In

506
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:28.839
<v Speaker 2>December two thousand and seven, a thirteen year old boy

507
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:32.680
<v Speaker 2>named Adam in Oslo, Norway approached his teacher saying he

508
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:36.119
<v Speaker 2>had been abused. Believing the perpetrator was Adam's father, the

509
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:39.720
<v Speaker 2>teacher sent him to a children's shelter. On December sixteenth,

510
00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:43.480
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and seven, Adam vanished from the shelter. Police

511
00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:47.279
<v Speaker 2>were contacted and a nationwide search began. Shortly after, the

512
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:50.799
<v Speaker 2>disappearance was splashed across the news Adam was located in

513
00:30:50.839 --> 00:30:53.839
<v Speaker 2>the Czech Republic, safe and well with his mother. Both

514
00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:56.799
<v Speaker 2>Adam and his mother were shocked. He had never attended

515
00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:00.799
<v Speaker 2>school in Norway. Teachers in Oslo had no idea that

516
00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:03.440
<v Speaker 2>the thirteen year old boy they knew as Adam was

517
00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:06.640
<v Speaker 2>actually thirty three year old barb Plova.

518
00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:13.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh my gosh. Right, she just sounds like fiction,

519
00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:15.079
<v Speaker 1>well written fiction.

520
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:16.759
<v Speaker 2>This is a fucking movie.

521
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:18.759
<v Speaker 1>This, Oh my god.

522
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:22.799
<v Speaker 2>She had stolen his identity and had been masquerading as

523
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:26.880
<v Speaker 2>him for several months. She put on weight, shaved her head,

524
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:31.319
<v Speaker 2>bound her breasts, and dressed in loose fitting, oversized clothing.

525
00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Some teachers thought Adam looked like a girl, but no

526
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:38.920
<v Speaker 2>one knows what turning thirteen will bring, so they thought

527
00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:42.440
<v Speaker 2>it was best not to judge. After the Adam revelation,

528
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:46.519
<v Speaker 2>Barber's tracked down in a town north of Oslo, where

529
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:49.880
<v Speaker 2>she was arrested and transported back to the Czech Republic

530
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:52.839
<v Speaker 2>on January fifth, two thousand and eight. The woman was

531
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:55.440
<v Speaker 2>let into the police station clutching a children's book and

532
00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:58.599
<v Speaker 2>a Teddy Bear. Upon being booked into jail, she was

533
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:02.400
<v Speaker 2>charged with the abuse of Area Yakub. The prosecution and

534
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:06.200
<v Speaker 2>defense each had her examined by their own experts. The

535
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:12.359
<v Speaker 2>prosecution's expert claimed she was not suffering from any psychological conditions. Instead,

536
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:15.200
<v Speaker 2>she was an expert at manipulating the people around her.

537
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:19.880
<v Speaker 2>The defense expert disagreed. In their eyes, Barbara's mentally ill

538
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:23.039
<v Speaker 2>and in need of treatment. Due to the vast disagreement,

539
00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:27.759
<v Speaker 2>the court ordered an independent evaluation. The panel of eight

540
00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:33.440
<v Speaker 2>independent psychologists and psychiatrists concluded that she was not suffering

541
00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:37.240
<v Speaker 2>from any mental illness. She was declared competent to stand

542
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:43.920
<v Speaker 2>trial alongside her brother Jan's Anti Nisi, Katerina, Clara, and Turik,

543
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:46.960
<v Speaker 2>who had all been accused of the abuse of children.

544
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:50.160
<v Speaker 2>Clara was the only adult to have admitted to the

545
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:53.319
<v Speaker 2>conditions her children lived in. She said she had been

546
00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:58.200
<v Speaker 2>horribly manipulated and deceived into allowing her children to be mistreated.

547
00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:01.359
<v Speaker 2>She knew what was happening, but she kept waiting for

548
00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:04.359
<v Speaker 2>the doctor to tell her to stop, to explain, and

549
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:07.079
<v Speaker 2>to be done so they could live their lives. She

550
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:10.119
<v Speaker 2>always thought there would be an end. Barb was found

551
00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:17.920
<v Speaker 2>to have historonic personality disorder, which is accompanied by theatricality, dramatization,

552
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:24.000
<v Speaker 2>exaggerated expression of emotions and manipulative behavior to achieve the

553
00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:28.440
<v Speaker 2>individual's own needs. According to the panel of psychologists, her

554
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:30.880
<v Speaker 2>history of seizures had also likely been part of a

555
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:35.480
<v Speaker 2>disassociative state as part of her personality disorder. She likely

556
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:39.519
<v Speaker 2>had never suffered from apilepsy. For her part, Katerina said

557
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:43.200
<v Speaker 2>she could not sit quietly while accusations were made against Barb.

558
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:46.839
<v Speaker 2>Katerina said that she had made mistakes when she introduced

559
00:33:46.839 --> 00:33:49.599
<v Speaker 2>Clara and Barb in two thousand and five. She had

560
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:53.039
<v Speaker 2>accidentally called her Anna and referred to her being younger

561
00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:57.279
<v Speaker 2>in her explanation. This is how Anna's identity had been developed. Yes,

562
00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:01.039
<v Speaker 2>Katerina had encouraged Clara to bond with Anna, but Clara

563
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:05.440
<v Speaker 2>allowed herself to be convinced about the character's story. Katerina

564
00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:08.599
<v Speaker 2>denied that Barba had participated in the abuse of the children,

565
00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:12.360
<v Speaker 2>telling the court that someone they trusted without limit had

566
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:16.320
<v Speaker 2>given instruction to Clara and Katerina. The women came up

567
00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:19.480
<v Speaker 2>with the punishments given to the children themselves based on

568
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:23.079
<v Speaker 2>those instructions. Katerina said during her time in court she

569
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:26.599
<v Speaker 2>never admitted to writing the emails or text messages sent

570
00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:29.719
<v Speaker 2>by the quote unquote doctor. She said the goal was

571
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:32.199
<v Speaker 2>to simply educate the boys and it got out of hand.

572
00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:37.840
<v Speaker 2>At this point in court, Clara stood up, shouting, accusing

573
00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:40.559
<v Speaker 2>her sister of lying, and asked why did she do this?

574
00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:45.000
<v Speaker 2>She collapsed and was removed from the court. Katerina refused

575
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:48.320
<v Speaker 2>to answer questions of the prosecution or the judge. In

576
00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:51.000
<v Speaker 2>October two thousand and eight, all defendants were found guilty.

577
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:55.679
<v Speaker 2>Clara received nine years and Katerina received ten after she

578
00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:59.239
<v Speaker 2>was found to be the initiator of the abuse. Barbara

579
00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:02.559
<v Speaker 2>was sentenced to fi five years, Yan Barb's brother and

580
00:35:02.679 --> 00:35:07.440
<v Speaker 2>Antiinssi received seven years, and Jan's Turrek was sentenced to

581
00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:11.760
<v Speaker 2>a five year suspended sentence for providing the dogcages the

582
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:15.000
<v Speaker 2>boys were forced to sleep in. All defendants except Clara

583
00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:20.119
<v Speaker 2>appealed and all were rejected. There is speculation that Joseph

584
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:26.800
<v Speaker 2>Skurla was involved, who is barba Jan's father. Joseph was

585
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:29.840
<v Speaker 2>very active in the boys scout group. One of the

586
00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:33.599
<v Speaker 2>boys involved claimed he turned it into an extremist sect,

587
00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:37.320
<v Speaker 2>utilizing violent methods to break the boys in his group,

588
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.320
<v Speaker 2>like break them down, claiming it was in order to

589
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:42.760
<v Speaker 2>build them back up. Pretending that all of it was

590
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:47.760
<v Speaker 2>done for spiritual purposes. Yep, that's a cult, yeah, exactly.

591
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:51.559
<v Speaker 2>Despite the similarities, he was not found to have been

592
00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:55.519
<v Speaker 2>involved in the Kurrum case. Andrea and Yagub continued to

593
00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:58.440
<v Speaker 2>be cared for at the children's home. As soon as

594
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:01.880
<v Speaker 2>the ban on visiting family members was lifted, the boys

595
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:05.719
<v Speaker 2>began spending more time with their father and grandparents. In

596
00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:08.159
<v Speaker 2>twenty ten, the boys were living with their grandparents full

597
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:11.760
<v Speaker 2>time and attending school. All the defendants have served their

598
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:15.760
<v Speaker 2>terms and completed their parole. Barb continues to be under

599
00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:20.800
<v Speaker 2>the care of psychologists free on disability. Katerina was released

600
00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:25.519
<v Speaker 2>in July twenty fourteen. Clara left prison in October twenty thirteen.

601
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:30.800
<v Speaker 2>According to authority, she made significant psychological progress while incarcerated

602
00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:33.960
<v Speaker 2>and was not considered a danger to her children or

603
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:36.599
<v Speaker 2>the community when she was released. She had put a

604
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:39.639
<v Speaker 2>lot of effort into rebuilding her relationship with her children,

605
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:43.400
<v Speaker 2>and they began exchanging letters while she was still behind bars.

606
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:46.760
<v Speaker 2>By the time she was released, her children, fifteen year

607
00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:49.840
<v Speaker 2>old Yakub and thirteen year old Andre, were open to

608
00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:52.800
<v Speaker 2>having her back in their lives, and that is.

609
00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:59.039
<v Speaker 1>The end that is insane. Oh my gosh, those sentences.

610
00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:01.480
<v Speaker 1>What do you think of how I don't even think

611
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:02.199
<v Speaker 1>that they.

612
00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:04.159
<v Speaker 2>It was nothing nothing.

613
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:08.960
<v Speaker 1>I guess you mentally fuck up a young child, like yeah,

614
00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:10.159
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how to say it.

615
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:12.559
<v Speaker 2>Medically, yeah, you know what I mean.

616
00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:18.280
<v Speaker 1>Mentally mentally yeah, mentally adbotage them. You have a short

617
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:20.679
<v Speaker 1>window zero to five and then there's another one. Yeah,

618
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:24.639
<v Speaker 1>you know, zero to twelve. After twelve, now that's so

619
00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:28.880
<v Speaker 1>intense under five with both Andre and Yakov. It's just

620
00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:33.440
<v Speaker 1>for nine years. They should have got the whole twenty five.

621
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:39.599
<v Speaker 1>I know how long it's gonna take Yakov and Andre.

622
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:39.880
<v Speaker 2>To get to a baseline.

623
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:43.880
<v Speaker 1>And I thought it was interesting how you had said like, oh, yeah,

624
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:46.599
<v Speaker 1>they looked at Clara and they were like, oh, she's

625
00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:50.400
<v Speaker 1>not going to be a threat to her sons anymore

626
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:54.559
<v Speaker 1>or society. I ain't worried about her sons. I would

627
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:58.719
<v Speaker 1>be worried about how Andrea and Yakov you're gonna that's

628
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:01.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, but one day at a time, I

629
00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:04.239
<v Speaker 1>guess with them. I don't know how people can that

630
00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:08.400
<v Speaker 1>abuse so young. It's it's heartbreaking, it's sickening, and what

631
00:38:08.599 --> 00:38:11.400
<v Speaker 1>is up with the fucking gas light in Katerina, you

632
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:15.199
<v Speaker 1>you that board met a friend like your sister and

633
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:20.480
<v Speaker 1>her nephews and then blame them for believing her. You

634
00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:23.360
<v Speaker 1>lie to me, lie to me, lie to me. And

635
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:26.119
<v Speaker 1>then it's like, well, you kind of participated. There is

636
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:29.440
<v Speaker 1>a part of me that does believe that. At some point,

637
00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:32.440
<v Speaker 1>Clara had a fucking epiphany that was like because you know,

638
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:36.000
<v Speaker 1>spirits speak softly, and she heard the voice and she

639
00:38:36.119 --> 00:38:39.199
<v Speaker 1>was like yeah, but Katerina said, right, you know, so

640
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:42.440
<v Speaker 1>now we can blame Katerina or I'm gonna blame.

641
00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:44.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna blame the fact that a doctor told me this,

642
00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:48.159
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm thinking, like, wull I never metan.

643
00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:51.199
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I met one time in the car, in the car,

644
00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:54.280
<v Speaker 1>I've never met at a professional building, went to an

645
00:38:54.280 --> 00:38:57.639
<v Speaker 1>appointment because I let Katerina take care of all that.

646
00:38:57.719 --> 00:38:59.199
<v Speaker 1>It's why you got to take care of your own

647
00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:01.440
<v Speaker 1>shit people, And you don't look up the doctor.

648
00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:02.320
<v Speaker 2>You don't.

649
00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:08.360
<v Speaker 1>That's learned helplessness. Maybe that's her sounded like Clara was

650
00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:12.280
<v Speaker 1>the middle child and just to be so led astray

651
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:15.880
<v Speaker 1>by your older sister. What a betrayal on so deep,

652
00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:20.000
<v Speaker 1>so many levels, so many levels, girl, so many bar

653
00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:25.519
<v Speaker 1>how who knew your life could be completely isn't it exciting?

654
00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:30.079
<v Speaker 2>With a slow pituitary? I know, I had no idea.

655
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:33.599
<v Speaker 1>She faked being a little girl and a little boy

656
00:39:33.639 --> 00:39:37.480
<v Speaker 1>and a little boy. That's commitment, that's that's thinking and

657
00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:41.239
<v Speaker 1>planning that she needs to be psychologic. She is not

658
00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:46.440
<v Speaker 1>safe for society. She's a master manipulatory. Thank you, Tanya.

659
00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:50.199
<v Speaker 1>I do not know about this story. Yeah, it amazes me.

660
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:53.800
<v Speaker 1>It was two thousand and seven. Like you said with Clara,

661
00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:56.920
<v Speaker 1>it's like you didn't run this on the Google. Did

662
00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:59.679
<v Speaker 1>we have Google in two thousand and seven? Yes? Google?

663
00:39:59.800 --> 00:40:01.679
<v Speaker 1>So thing in two thousand and seven.

664
00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:05.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure we had Google.

665
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:08.159
<v Speaker 2>We had some form of the Internet because that's when

666
00:40:08.199 --> 00:40:09.320
<v Speaker 2>I started law school.

667
00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:13.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay, see yes, yeah, so this could have been looked

668
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:15.360
<v Speaker 1>up and verified if you had any doubt.

669
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:19.079
<v Speaker 2>So exactly. No, I didn't start law school. I graduated

670
00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:22.079
<v Speaker 2>law school in two thousand and seven. So yeah, yeah,

671
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:25.400
<v Speaker 2>we had it. We had it. So anyway, all right,

672
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:28.079
<v Speaker 2>my friend, Well that was a wild, crazy story. Was

673
00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:31.400
<v Speaker 2>you everyone for listening? Don't forget to hit subscribe or follow.

674
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:35.760
<v Speaker 2>Go to our website. Crimes Andconsequences dot com, and there's

675
00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:38.800
<v Speaker 2>like a T shirt, get a t shirt, support us

676
00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:42.960
<v Speaker 2>if you'd like more episodes. Chaman might have been averaging

677
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:46.199
<v Speaker 2>about three new episodes a month. I'd say, yeah, not

678
00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:49.239
<v Speaker 2>every week, but three a month. And you can go

679
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:53.320
<v Speaker 2>to patrion and get those extra episodes, Patreon dot com,

680
00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:56.639
<v Speaker 2>slash TNT crimes, or you can subscribe on the Apple

681
00:40:56.920 --> 00:40:59.559
<v Speaker 2>podcast app. And I think that's all the business. So

682
00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:00.639
<v Speaker 2>until next time, my.

683
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:03.719
<v Speaker 1>Friend, Until next time, my dear, I love you, love you,

684
00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:04.440
<v Speaker 1>I'll see.

685
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:13.679
<v Speaker 2>You sued bye bye

686
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:16.039
<v Speaker 1>M