Speaker 1: Top lots of productions.
Speaker 2: It was a layered operation that achieved many objectives, but
Speaker 2: it facilitated the growth of the state as well, and
Speaker 2: it facilitated that path of the dystopian nightmare, you know,
Speaker 2: and the violation of our our inherent rights. So that
Speaker 2: was an inherent example of the federal government's.
Speaker 3: Abuse of power. Oh five to me, do we care
Speaker 3: what we oh?
Speaker 1: We can? What we conser? Holy cow, not a third
Speaker 1: of the bublic had been belongable.
Speaker 4: And wee oh time we go, say way.
Speaker 3: Down we go and way down we.
Speaker 5: Go, Way down we go? Ah cus day, will un
Speaker 5: yet down down to the dark dock?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Benley, well nay.
Speaker 1: It down down to your phone?
Speaker 5: Ohmy, will yet down down to your co Yeah, till
Speaker 5: you can't crawl no more.
Speaker 6: Hey, welcome to another episode of No Way Jose. Today,
Speaker 6: I am joined by Ken Silva. We're coming to you
Speaker 6: with some unfortunate news and also we figured we'd take
Speaker 6: this opportunity to give you some other Oklahoma City bombing updates.
Speaker 6: There have been some new things to kind of add
Speaker 6: this to the Oklahoma City bombing playlist. But before we
Speaker 6: get into it, I do want to take a moment
Speaker 6: to let you guys know that if you want to
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Speaker 1: Kind of a no brainer.
Speaker 6: Use jose a check out, get ten percent off. With
Speaker 6: that that that's enough of that. Let's go ahead and
Speaker 6: get Kent in here and get into it. What's up man?
Speaker 6: A long time?
Speaker 1: No, see, yeah it has.
Speaker 3: It's been at least probably six months since I've been
Speaker 3: on this show. So yeah, good to be back.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I'm still covering you regularly now. I've
Speaker 6: adopted a morning show, so I do your your articles
Speaker 6: come up quite frequently. But it's a good to have
Speaker 6: you back. It's a little it's kind of your profile
Speaker 6: has grown significantly since the last time we came. I
Speaker 6: was kind of like, holy moly. So it's good to
Speaker 6: see good people getting recognition. You're kind of like on
Speaker 6: the short list of people that I do try to
Speaker 6: shout out in the realm of stuff that me and
Speaker 6: you are interested in. So it's cool to see see
Speaker 6: people moving on up. So hell, you're what the editor
Speaker 6: in chief over the headline, so that's news since the
Speaker 6: last time. You're your own editor in chief now, so
Speaker 6: I mean that's more responsibility. So but yeah, how's that
Speaker 6: treating you? I mean, if there's anything else you want to,
Speaker 6: you know, mention to my audience to about yourself in
Speaker 6: the meantime. But I know, it's been cool seeing this
Speaker 6: stuff you've been doing. You've been breaking a lot of
Speaker 6: big stories and you're receiving the due recognition for it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate that, and I do turn into your
Speaker 3: morning show quite frequently. Yeah to hear you talk about
Speaker 3: my articles, and always appreciate that. Yeah, we're making a
Speaker 3: changes at Headline USA. I took over as editor about
Speaker 3: two months ago from a good friend of mine. Ben Sellers,
Speaker 3: who hired me, got nothing good but good things to
Speaker 3: say about him. But we've kind of changed the editorial
Speaker 3: stance from more like a mainstream maga pro Trump site
Speaker 3: to hardcore paleo libertarian slash conservative or right wing if
Speaker 3: you want to say that. But we're going hard against
Speaker 3: you know, the Trump administration when they mess up onlike
Speaker 3: any other sites, we're running anti war dot com articles
Speaker 3: thanks to Scott Horden's blessing work, so you can find
Speaker 3: Dave de Camp Kyle Ans alone. And we just hired
Speaker 3: a new deputy editor to work with me, Jose Nino.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of your viewers might be familiar
Speaker 3: with that name. He's done some work for the Libertarian
Speaker 3: Institute and MESIS and uh, really smart guy. Just gonna
Speaker 3: you know, make him a hardcore journalist too.
Speaker 6: Yep, he's a he's the name, I've heard around the
Speaker 6: around for a while. He's definitely been in these circles
Speaker 6: for a hot minute. But uh, as I said, we
Speaker 6: have a few things I want to get through, a
Speaker 6: handful of little updates, you know, new things in the
Speaker 6: story that I feel like anyone who really does want
Speaker 6: to have a grip of this story, you know, an
Speaker 6: ongoing understanding that these are new developments that I think
Speaker 6: you need to know. Uh And namely probably I said,
Speaker 6: we'll probably just go ahead and get right into the
Speaker 6: main one, which is what brought us here today. And
Speaker 6: and it just kind of was like, hey, there's a
Speaker 6: few other things I feel like we should mention. H
Speaker 6: But I guess Carol Howe, which for those we did
Speaker 6: cover this in the series a little bit, I figured
Speaker 6: we'd take a moment to kind of cover a story
Speaker 6: again real quick, just you know, may as well use
Speaker 6: the opportunity to kind of.
Speaker 1: Tell her story.
Speaker 6: But it looks like she likely perished recently, because I
Speaker 6: don't I think she it's it's a kind of happen
Speaker 6: the air whether she actually went to witness protection. But
Speaker 6: essentially she's one of those characters that just disappeared for
Speaker 6: a while and then now the next thing we.
Speaker 1: Hear of her, she's dead.
Speaker 6: It's one of those characters that I think we a
Speaker 6: lot of us, okay Illklahoma City researcher types, have kind
Speaker 6: of hoped was going to be alongside something like a
Speaker 6: surveillance safe to just pop out of the woods one
Speaker 6: day and be like, I'm ready to talk or here
Speaker 6: I am. But this is the here I am, we
Speaker 6: get here I am.
Speaker 1: I'm dead.
Speaker 6: So that's a little bit bummer from my understanding the stories.
Speaker 6: She's a little bit hero. But obviously there are different
Speaker 6: sides to this story, which I'm sure we'll get into
Speaker 6: later as well, but I'll pass it off to you
Speaker 6: to just kind of give us the latest in what's
Speaker 6: going on with Carol Howe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for those who don't know, you know, she was
Speaker 3: kind of a troubled child, like a wild child in
Speaker 3: the eighties, you know, good looking teenage girl. Eventually gets
Speaker 3: in with the wrong crowd. I think she claims that
Speaker 3: she got beat up by some black people and that's
Speaker 3: why she got, you know, attracted to Nazism and starts
Speaker 3: hanging out with like the neo Nazis. Dennis Mayhon makes
Speaker 3: her way to Ellaheim City. She's from Tulsa, and while
Speaker 3: there she gets kind of like a front row seat
Speaker 3: to you what we think is plotting of the Oklahoma
Speaker 3: City bombing. And we know for a fact that she
Speaker 3: warned her handler and I think January ninety five that
Speaker 3: a guy named Andrea Strassmeyer and Dennis Mayhon and a
Speaker 3: couple other neo Nazis were casing federal buildings in Oklahoma
Speaker 3: and that an attack was impending. And the reason that
Speaker 3: we know this for sure is because after the bombing happens,
Speaker 3: Carol Hall starts talking about it, and the DOJ charges
Speaker 3: her with having explosive material. We think probably is retaliation
Speaker 3: and to shut her up and to prevent her from
Speaker 3: possibly testifying at Terry Nichols trial, which I think she
Speaker 3: did anyways. But in any event, at her trial, her
Speaker 3: handler agent was called the testified, and the handler agent
Speaker 3: confirmed under oath that yes, Carol did tell me in
Speaker 3: January that Nazis were casing federal buildings. So and in
Speaker 3: that regard she's highly credible. You know, it's a really
Speaker 3: sad story. After she beat the charges, she kind of
Speaker 3: just dropped off the grid. A good journalist named John Ronson,
Speaker 3: who people might know. I think he and Alex Jones
Speaker 3: were the ones to go into the Behemim Grove in
Speaker 3: the late nineties. So was Yeah, he's a long time
Speaker 3: conspiracy guy. That's Ronsion.
Speaker 6: That just made a few things click in my my
Speaker 6: conspiracy mind.
Speaker 3: But god, okay, interesting, I'll be curious on your thoughts
Speaker 3: for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 6: So he did so position and you think that he's
Speaker 6: a stoopid Yeah.
Speaker 3: So yeah, he did a podcast two years ago about
Speaker 3: Carol how that's got some interesting information but ultimately concludes
Speaker 3: that Carroll How's not credible. But you know, you talked
Speaker 3: to somebody like Richard Booth. We highly disagree with that.
Speaker 3: But to Ronson's credit, he's the one that discovered that
Speaker 3: apparently Carol Howe died in January in a house fire.
Speaker 3: And he put out a new episode that I just
Speaker 3: listened to today that's got a lot of good info in it,
Speaker 3: some negative, but some really interesting that actually can corroborates
Speaker 3: How's credibility.
Speaker 6: Was this so he did draw you said, he dropped
Speaker 6: some new new content and this was what after or
Speaker 6: before like after the revelation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he did an episode or a whole series
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three, right, and then this month I
Speaker 3: think just today, or at least I listened to it today.
Speaker 3: It was like he like did an epilogue OKA type
Speaker 3: type episode where he talks about how she died, like
Speaker 3: the months leading up to the death some people who
Speaker 3: knew her in Tennessee, like in recent years. Like, there's
Speaker 3: some pretty interesting stuff there.
Speaker 1: Okay, interesting, I don't have to go check that out.
Speaker 6: It wasn't there where I heard epilogue being referred to,
Speaker 6: but I thought that was a literally probably the epilogue
Speaker 6: for his previously written or previous story, uh the Debutante,
Speaker 6: which I believe you're referring to, which is the Carroll
Speaker 6: Howse story, which I find to be quite ludicrous. I'm
Speaker 6: pretty sure I was very close to almost doing a
Speaker 6: whole episode with Richard just to be like pointing out
Speaker 6: all the ludicrous things in it.
Speaker 1: Not gonna get to do it now.
Speaker 6: I don't remember any specific things, but it basically was
Speaker 6: the absurd position of coming away from this and thinking
Speaker 6: I should take Andy's word.
Speaker 1: For it and not the in not Carroll Howe's, but.
Speaker 6: Just just saying uh uh but anyways, yes, so she
Speaker 6: I guess so she died.
Speaker 1: You said it was a house fire?
Speaker 3: Is what? Is?
Speaker 1: What? What we're we're understanding was it what the undercurrent
Speaker 1: understanding is.
Speaker 3: That's right, and yeah, this is brand new news. So
Speaker 3: I've yet to investigate this. I do. I filed foys
Speaker 3: with the ATF and the FBI for her records now
Speaker 3: that she's deceased, and I'm planning on doing similar searches
Speaker 3: with the local fire department get the incident reports, so
Speaker 3: I'll have more to more to hopefully, and if any
Speaker 3: other researchers want to beat me to that, fine, I'm
Speaker 3: plenty busy. I would please somebody scoopy do so I
Speaker 3: don't have to do the work. But they're and by
Speaker 3: the way, the ATF already denied my request, so this
Speaker 3: is interesting. I could break this news. I filed it
Speaker 3: this morning and they responded in the afternoon saying, you know,
Speaker 3: we're denying it. You need to prove that Carol Holle
Speaker 3: is dead, otherwise we might be violating her privacy rights.
Speaker 3: So they're not taking the report's word for it. I
Speaker 3: don't know if it's a stonewalling tactic or bureaucracy, but
Speaker 3: in any event, it got somewhat interesting, But yeah, she
Speaker 3: dies in the house fire. But the podcast goes into
Speaker 3: like she really seemed to spiral into severe paranoia, where
Speaker 3: in the years leading up to her death she was
Speaker 3: pretty much a shut in. She would even like smoke
Speaker 3: cigarettes in like a little stowaway department like under her house.
Speaker 3: She wouldn't go outside. Probably a little bit schizophrenic, and
Speaker 3: the question is were people actually still messing with her
Speaker 3: or were she just spiraling into mental illness. That's exactly right,
Speaker 3: and tar Ronson's credit, he does leave that open apparently,
Speaker 3: so this is interesting. She made of friends with like
Speaker 3: a local tough guy who would like fix her car
Speaker 3: at like ten at night, because again she's a shut in,
Speaker 3: doesn't want to let anybody in her house. She wouldn't
Speaker 3: even take out the trash because she thought that somebody
Speaker 3: would take the DNA. By the way, I think we
Speaker 3: forgot to mention she was living under an assumed name, well, Sarah,
Speaker 3: what's the name, Sarah, Sarah Collins. So yeah, she wouldn't
Speaker 3: even take out the trash because she's worried that they
Speaker 3: might get her DNA and figure out It's really how
Speaker 3: At one point she's in the backyard with the guy,
Speaker 3: and she says, they get down and she thinks somebody
Speaker 3: is watching them, and they crawl back to the house.
Speaker 3: She told the guy that she had infiltrated like Muslim
Speaker 3: extremist groups ahead of the twenty twelve Boston bombing, So
Speaker 3: it seems like she kind of wanted to get the
Speaker 3: psychological baggage off her chest without telling the guy like
Speaker 3: who she really was. Like it, it is interesting.
Speaker 1: That that or she did more. I mean, I doubt it,
Speaker 1: but it's like.
Speaker 3: Infiltrating Arab groups. I think it was just like a
Speaker 3: twisting the facts, you know, for psychological.
Speaker 6: I guess that would make sense if she did feel
Speaker 6: the need she wanted to confide in someone and have
Speaker 6: someone to you can't say it because then obviously be
Speaker 6: I don't know, it's pretty she's pretty fucking famous, So
Speaker 6: it's like a I don't know. I guess most most
Speaker 6: people would have no idea, I mean, unless you're like
Speaker 6: one of the handful of researchers out there. But still
Speaker 6: even then, and you know, you wouldn't be too hard
Speaker 6: to put two and two together, So I guess I
Speaker 6: get that, but it is still, man, that is weird.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, so she believe if she was being
Speaker 3: watched by the FEDS up till her death. And again
Speaker 3: there are where there are definite signs of mental illness.
Speaker 3: I mean, I would say, going all the way back
Speaker 3: to when she was a teenager, probably, But you know,
Speaker 3: she's been credible on so many things that like we
Speaker 3: we can't definitely dismiss it. We gotta you know, I'll
Speaker 3: still be investigating and look closely at the fire report
Speaker 3: and everything like that.
Speaker 6: I mean people, and also given the context of this
Speaker 6: story where you have tarn Tiki Kenneth trying to do
Speaker 6: Michael Loudensonger, doctor Chum Lee would uh aiding Gillis no,
Speaker 6: not eiding.
Speaker 1: I forget his name, Gillis Parker. I forget the one
Speaker 1: of one Richard Lee Guthrie. Like it's just like we
Speaker 1: could just rattle off name name name name name, name
Speaker 1: name name.
Speaker 6: So it is a I don't know, the Muller murders, Like,
Speaker 6: it's not that it's not that crazy.
Speaker 3: Keep in mind we're coming up on you know, when
Speaker 3: she died, it was months ahead of the thirtieth anniversary
Speaker 3: of the bombing, but it was the already at the
Speaker 3: anniversary of her informing on the bombing. So yeah, take
Speaker 3: you know, do that what you will. One of the
Speaker 3: most interesting things from Ronson's podcast was that her cousin Lucy,
Speaker 3: who had a lot of bad things to say about
Speaker 3: Carol but did confirmed that Carol definitely saw McVeigh before
Speaker 3: the bombing. So Lucy tells a story that it's the
Speaker 3: Christmas in ninety four, so four months ahead of time,
Speaker 3: and her grandma just died and the grandma's like maiden
Speaker 3: name or middle name was McVeigh, and so she's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna name my kid's middle name McVeigh to honor
Speaker 3: my grandma. And Carol just goes like, you're not gonna
Speaker 3: want to do that, And so that comes from the
Speaker 3: cousin that hates Carol, but she admits that well, in
Speaker 3: this regard, she definitely called it because when the bombing
Speaker 3: happens a couple months later, the cousin freaked the hell out.
Speaker 3: So that's there. That's another really juicy, juicy drop in
Speaker 3: Ronson's podcast.
Speaker 1: That is interesting.
Speaker 6: I mean, I guess it makes I guess that's just
Speaker 6: all that does emphasize the level of uh, I know, foreboding.
Speaker 6: I guess she had essentially because she had already warned
Speaker 6: him about it. I mean she had to did what
Speaker 6: we mentioned earlier, the the multiple occasions which you can
Speaker 6: go look at the files and you know, see the
Speaker 6: transcripts that say this where it's you know, her reporting
Speaker 6: on what with we're going with Dennis Mayhon and Strasmeier
Speaker 6: multiple times into to I believe case the courthouse and
Speaker 6: the in the federal buildings if I recall correctly, so
Speaker 6: and other buildings as well.
Speaker 7: So it's a you know, Yeah, her specific comment about
Speaker 7: McVeigh is interesting too, because we didn't have any I
Speaker 7: don't think there's any actual smoking gun that says that
Speaker 7: she definitely saw him.
Speaker 3: I knew if you listen to the full Debutante podcast,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of like she changes story and there's
Speaker 3: conflicting reports on whether she may have saw somebody named
Speaker 3: Tim Tuttle or not. But the cousin's story is very
Speaker 3: compelling to me.
Speaker 6: Yeah, she, uh, if I recall correctly, I believe, didn't
Speaker 6: she think. I believe she thought that the actually the
Speaker 6: John Doe one sketch.
Speaker 1: Was one of the Ward brothers.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so, I mean so that as a if you're
Speaker 6: trying to look for identifying McVeigh, I mean, it's weird.
Speaker 1: She says it two months later the other point, I
Speaker 1: was gonna try.
Speaker 6: But it's just kind of like, obviously she knew that
Speaker 6: they were visiting, but it's like we didn't really have
Speaker 6: an idea of to what degree she was concerned, Like
Speaker 6: was it just like, oh, you saw this. But obviously
Speaker 6: if two months ahead she's mentioning, oh, don't name McVeigh,
Speaker 6: it's kind of like, oh shit, something else is going
Speaker 6: on here, or she has a greater she probably has
Speaker 6: more information.
Speaker 1: So there definitely was.
Speaker 6: Probably more we don't know of, but man, yeah, this
Speaker 6: is a This is interesting, So I guess they're probably
Speaker 6: more to come on this. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 6: if there anything particularly in the vein of Carol Howe
Speaker 6: that you feel.
Speaker 1: Like we should mention at this point.
Speaker 6: I think for anyone that's a you know, ignorant of everything,
Speaker 6: I think we kind of gave the main beat.
Speaker 1: She worked. She became an informant in Elam City.
Speaker 6: Alam City is like obviously where we kind of purport
Speaker 6: that the AAR kind of set up their home base
Speaker 6: and there are you know, an assortment of between that
Speaker 6: group of aar there are assortment of different ways that we.
Speaker 1: Can connect McVeigh to that group.
Speaker 6: So I mean kind of to just a quick and
Speaker 6: dirty for people, but you know, obviously than Carol Howe
Speaker 6: being the informant they were talking about here. So yeah,
Speaker 6: just kind of a quick rundown in case I forgot
Speaker 6: anything so far as the basics for new people, you know,
Speaker 6: jumping on board, But is there anything else in the
Speaker 6: vein of her before we move on to other updates,
Speaker 6: because I mean I can't think of anything else.
Speaker 3: Go ahead for people who are interested in Carol how
Speaker 3: if they don't want to buy John Ronson's podcast on audible. Yeah,
Speaker 3: there's also a TV show that came out two years
Speaker 3: ago that's pretty good. It's the second season of the
Speaker 3: Waco series for Showtime. It's Waco the Aftermath, which leads
Speaker 3: up to the oka See bomb, and it has Carol
Speaker 3: Howe at Ellaheim City scene, McVeigh and Strasmeier planning it.
Speaker 3: The show's not perfect because it leaves out John Doe
Speaker 3: two and a bunch of other stuff, but it's really
Speaker 3: entertaining and if people don't want to dig into a
Speaker 3: book or an article or a podcast, I would recommend
Speaker 3: that last thing. I'll say. Speaking of Strassmeier, so longtime
Speaker 3: listeners know that I interviewed him two years ago when
Speaker 3: that show about Carol how came out, and he obviously
Speaker 3: called Carol How crazy, said she made up everything. And
Speaker 3: I do an article on Strasmeier responding to the show
Speaker 3: and how it depicted him and Carol How. After that,
Speaker 3: he stopped responding to my messages just totally. I thought
Speaker 3: Strasmeyer got pissed off of my article and just decided
Speaker 3: to cut me off totally. But when Carol died today,
Speaker 3: I messaged him and her responded right away. So that
Speaker 3: shows you how much he cal He's probably having champagne
Speaker 3: right now. And so she he gave me a really
Speaker 3: interesting quote if I could find it.
Speaker 1: Maybe you have it, oose, Okay, what quotes?
Speaker 3: This just what he told me.
Speaker 1: Give me a second, I'll bring it right up.
Speaker 3: Uh okay. So he yeah, he responds, he said, I
Speaker 3: said Carol Hall died, and he goes karma or is
Speaker 3: somebody covering his tracks? It's a weird thing to say.
Speaker 3: And then he said finishes How played an essential part
Speaker 3: in the conspiracy to frame innocent people for the Oka
Speaker 3: City bombing. It's like, Okay, well she didn't frame anybody
Speaker 3: because nobody got charged for it, nobody outside of McVeigh.
Speaker 3: That's kind of a weird thing to say, Karma or
Speaker 3: somebody covering his tracks.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it is a weird thing to say. It does
Speaker 6: a I mean, I don't know. I mean, obviously we
Speaker 6: can get super conspiratorial. I don't know to a degree
Speaker 6: Andy would even be in the know if there was
Speaker 6: some conspiratorial or something. I think he just probably is
Speaker 6: being glib and he's probably obviously that's his sans so whatever.
Speaker 6: Like you said, you did interview him a while back,
Speaker 6: which that is a little bit of an update. I
Speaker 6: don't think we've really covered that on there. I just
Speaker 6: figured we'd take it. Obviously he disagrees, so and you know,
Speaker 6: the Ronson it seemed Ronson bit onto this narrative because,
Speaker 6: as we mentioned earlier in the Debutante, he does seem
Speaker 6: to kind of fall into that line of thinking. I
Speaker 6: believe he even goes into like some of the good
Speaker 6: the Godiva like strip club stories and some of the
Speaker 6: other different tales out there. Some of the sources feel
Speaker 6: point to and tried to tear him down. It was
Speaker 6: very much was like a debunking type of podcast, it
Speaker 6: felt like, and then a lot of those ended up failing.
Speaker 6: Richard did a good job when that happened of slapping
Speaker 6: a lot of those things down and be like, no,
Speaker 6: this is you're wrong. So this was very much seemed
Speaker 6: to be a weirdly podcast who I don't know back
Speaker 6: up his.
Speaker 1: Narrative for some weird reason.
Speaker 6: So I guess just kind of there was just any
Speaker 6: thoughts with that you did just recently really the full
Speaker 6: interview for those who want to check it out, you
Speaker 6: do have an article on it, so if those who
Speaker 6: want to get the key takeaways, but I just is
Speaker 6: there anything in particularly you feel like it's worth mentioning
Speaker 6: that you know his take on things.
Speaker 1: Obviously we've kind.
Speaker 6: Of alluded to it already that you know he didn't
Speaker 6: do nothing, you know, didn't do nothing type thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, even for.
Speaker 6: Those who are really deep researchers and know the what's
Speaker 6: typically referred to as the damning statement he made to Pritchard,
Speaker 6: which actually, you know just fair well. I actually didn't
Speaker 6: finish the book, but I'm done with the OKAC portion
Speaker 6: of that book, but in that in there, he like
Speaker 6: basically does what a lot of people refer to as
Speaker 6: essentially his his what's the word I can't Why can't
Speaker 6: I think of the word where you admit to doing
Speaker 6: something wrong? A confession is confession Essentially a lot of
Speaker 6: people think that was essentially his confession, but in like
Speaker 6: a OJ.
Speaker 1: Like what if I did it type way.
Speaker 6: But he even pushes back on that and says that, uh,
Speaker 6: Pritchard won't ever and wants rich Pritchard to produce the tapes,
Speaker 6: so which I will give him the slightest bit of
Speaker 6: credit that to where it's like, hey, Prichard probably should
Speaker 6: release the tapes, and him not release the tapes does
Speaker 6: kind of look bad and kind of does give to
Speaker 6: you know, Andy's point, you know that like, hey, this
Speaker 6: is just some dude somewhere saying something, because that's kind
Speaker 6: of all it is right now. So unfortunately, I wish
Speaker 6: Pritchard would release it because then it would be far
Speaker 6: more than some dude saying something, and that that little
Speaker 6: bit is pretty damning. So I know, any thoughts and
Speaker 6: just kind of his his his stances on all this
Speaker 6: or any of the like really.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I gotta give it to him when the criticism
Speaker 3: of Pritchard seems valid to me, And if you go
Speaker 3: look back at that book, I guess it might be
Speaker 3: fresher in your memory. But the dialogue does seem a
Speaker 3: little too perfect, where like at the end, Strasmeyer supposedly
Speaker 3: goes like shiza and like why like hangs up the
Speaker 3: phone or something. It's like, really, like that doesn't sound Yeah,
Speaker 3: it sounds a little too like scripted.
Speaker 6: I guess you'd have a better read of how he
Speaker 6: talks than but yeah, it doesn't. Now after after having
Speaker 6: heard him audio a few times, I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 6: that would be weird for him to say. I don't
Speaker 6: feel like he would speak German English like that.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 6: That seems too cheesy, But I don't know. I mean
Speaker 6: it's hard to tell. Yeah, I mean it is. It
Speaker 6: does seem almost too good to be true. And then
Speaker 6: we have the person that it was aimed at saying hey,
Speaker 6: release it, and the journalists not releasing it.
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I don't know enough about.
Speaker 6: Rick Pritchard's work to really be willing to accept that,
Speaker 6: like it's that his word is that, you know, golden
Speaker 6: that will you take it.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 6: Maybe he's an amazing journalist and he's never lied ever, ever,
Speaker 6: ever ever or been wrong, but uh, I just it
Speaker 6: seems kind of kind of a wild thing to just
Speaker 6: take on faith. So that is fair on Andy's point.
Speaker 6: As much as I want to just nail him to
Speaker 6: the wall, it is that one that that point is
Speaker 6: pretty fair.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think so, and that you know, Pritchard
Speaker 3: is really highly regarded with some of the ogs, like
Speaker 3: Kathy Sanders loves Pritchard, So I'm not going to disparage
Speaker 3: the guy. Yeah, he should release the tapes. Though. What
Speaker 3: Andy told me is that this is really interesting because
Speaker 3: it lines up with one of what one of his
Speaker 3: buddies has said that he thought that the McVeigh pulled.
Speaker 3: The whole operation was for McVeigh to pull the truck
Speaker 3: into the building where atf agents were like downstairs in
Speaker 3: the parking garage ready to arrest him, but the truck
Speaker 3: was too big to fit. That's what he told me.
Speaker 3: He go check out the interview, it's on tape.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: And that lines up with what one of his buddies,
Speaker 3: Dave Holloway told somebody who informed to the FBI It
Speaker 3: came out in a three h two report. Who is
Speaker 3: Dave Holloway. He's the guy who helped Strassmeier escape the country.
Speaker 3: They crossed the border into Mexico and I think flew
Speaker 3: up to Belgium or something, took the train down to Germany.
Speaker 1: Where do you learned to fly ken? Where do you
Speaker 1: learn to fly ken? Where do you learn to fly.
Speaker 3: Well that's the thing. So Holloway is also a CIA
Speaker 3: pilot it and that this was a finding that our
Speaker 3: Twitter hero Boltzmann Booty found maybe like four years ago,
Speaker 3: pretty brand new news as far as Oklahoma City bombing
Speaker 3: lore goes. And so I asked Strasmeyer. I think I
Speaker 3: caught him off guard. I said, you know, did you
Speaker 3: know your buddy Holloway was in the CIA or he
Speaker 3: purports to be. And Strasmeyer was like, oh, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: he did. He flew for Air America, which is like
Speaker 3: kind of just a shorthand for Air America was a
Speaker 3: CIA front that, you know, shipped a lot of guns
Speaker 3: and drugs during Iran Contra, and that's a big mission
Speaker 3: to that. Strasmeyer knew that at the time that he's
Speaker 3: hanging out with him in the early nineties, while pat
Speaker 3: CON's going down. He didn't give me any more beyond that.
Speaker 3: I said, well, you know, don't you think that's odd
Speaker 3: or significant? And he just said, you know, no, not
Speaker 3: really a lot of military guys are in this circles.
Speaker 6: They was slinging a purportedly was slinging guns for to
Speaker 6: Cuban exiles, for Roger Moore as well.
Speaker 1: So he mean, and that's oh.
Speaker 3: I want to bring that up real quick.
Speaker 8: I don't want to go too far off from a tangent,
Speaker 8: but if you I watched the Oklahoma City April nineteenth
Speaker 8: documentary on HBO, and one of the authors, Stewart Wright,
Speaker 8: who wrote a book like the Politics not the Politics
Speaker 8: of Terror, but a similar titled book about the bombing,
Speaker 8: said that McVeigh was.
Speaker 3: Doing straw purchases on the gun show circuit for the Nazis,
Speaker 3: where he would buy guns legally and then give him
Speaker 3: to people who can't legally own them. Which that's what
Speaker 3: Operation Fast and Furious was all about. And we know
Speaker 3: that Operation Fast and Furious originated with pat Con. We
Speaker 3: know that because of John Matthews and Jesse Trena. Do
Speaker 3: they say like it was running out of the lone
Speaker 3: Wolf Gun Store, which was later in twenty eleven involved
Speaker 3: in Fast and Furious. So the reason I bring this
Speaker 3: up is because that tells me that, yeah, McVeigh probably
Speaker 3: was a fed, if that's true, that he's making straw
Speaker 3: purchases while for like this prelude to Fast and Furious.
Speaker 3: I just thought that was super fascinating.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine?
Speaker 6: Obviously is incredibly speculative, but I believe it was, and
Speaker 6: I think I think I know Richard's mentioned before, and
Speaker 6: I believe this is information that I believe is coming
Speaker 6: out Margaret's new book, Margaret Roberts. So I think we'll
Speaker 6: get the specific source. Just so many books always coming on.
Speaker 6: I hate it when I have to do like source
Speaker 6: it as like, oh, yeah, it's coming on a book soon,
Speaker 6: but okay, it's coming on a book soon. And I
Speaker 6: swear there was a God dang it, what was I
Speaker 6: totally lost my train of thought.
Speaker 1: What the hell? What was I talking about?
Speaker 3: Straw buyer?
Speaker 1: Oh oh oh oh, I was thinking.
Speaker 6: I mentioned there was something in there that they mentioned
Speaker 6: in Passing that I think is getting ready to drop
Speaker 6: in that book that implies there was a pat con
Speaker 6: element to Waco, which I know has been referenced before
Speaker 6: by John Matthews. But I believe there's going to be
Speaker 6: some sort of source that, you know, heavily more implies.
Speaker 6: It's something to do with essentially and believing some sort
Speaker 6: of outside you know, force or something. It sounds like
Speaker 6: maybe the implication is giving some sort of legal precedent
Speaker 6: to do whatever. So obviously like straw purchases that could
Speaker 6: and he was at Waco, so it's like, yeah, could
Speaker 6: you imagine it was like literally we come to fight.
Speaker 6: It was a big veagh as the dude that was
Speaker 6: like that created the legal president for Waco.
Speaker 3: Yeah, seriously, man, No, that's that's a perfectly reasonable conclusion
Speaker 3: or speculation to make. Yeah. So the story there is that,
Speaker 3: according to John Matthews, there was intelligence coming into the
Speaker 3: FBI that the militias were going to resupply Davidians or
Speaker 3: possibly even attack the Feds, and they were worried that,
Speaker 3: you know, we've had this perimeter set up for fifty
Speaker 3: going on fifty eight days, it were susceptible to an
Speaker 3: outside attack from the militia. Got to wrap up this
Speaker 3: operation soon. And if that was just John Matthews telling
Speaker 3: Jesse try to do that that's okay, one source, you know,
Speaker 3: random hearsay, but Richard Booth actually or no, this was
Speaker 3: on Scott Horden's like six hour Waco podcast. But Richard
Speaker 3: Booth picked up on it that this book, this is
Speaker 3: not an assault. It contains the same info that apparently
Speaker 3: the FBI was worried about the militias at the time,
Speaker 3: so it corroborates what Matthews told try to do that. Yes,
Speaker 3: the pat con was very tied into Waco and was
Speaker 3: the reason that they moved in and stopped the standoff
Speaker 3: and decided to just go in.
Speaker 6: All right, Well, geez, that that may especially if the
Speaker 6: angles that they were concerned about others come in that
Speaker 6: actually leads he was there, and all you need is
Speaker 6: to prove some sort of criminal element maybe they could
Speaker 6: even you know, we have these this criminal element militia
Speaker 6: moving in and all you have to do is point
Speaker 6: to something he did. And obviously if he's their asset,
Speaker 6: it's pretty easy to point to things he's done. So
Speaker 6: all right, yeah, wild, I don't know, I just never
Speaker 6: put that together. It's kind of been swirling in my
Speaker 6: head that I'm surprised that connection hasn't been made.
Speaker 1: But that is a that is interesting.
Speaker 6: That is like obviously, you know, probably isn't the case,
Speaker 6: but there's an outside possibility that is the case that McVeigh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Wendy Painting's done a lot of research on
Speaker 3: one of the Davidians did business with Roger Moore or
Speaker 3: something like that, so there is like that added tie.
Speaker 6: All right, shit, Okay, I didn't know that. I actually,
Speaker 6: you know, I feel like maybe I've heard that before,
Speaker 6: but it just I guess maybe it was one of
Speaker 6: those things that now hearing in a different light, I'm like, oh, okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of a lot of connections. Yeah, this
Speaker 3: this really needs to be like a ten season like
Speaker 3: TV show. It is crazy story.
Speaker 6: Well, all right, let's I guess move into some of
Speaker 6: the other updates.
Speaker 1: I'd say probably.
Speaker 6: The other major one that I'm forgetting something, but I
Speaker 6: think we've hit already kind of naturally hit a few
Speaker 6: of the ones we intended to. But I think the
Speaker 6: other one would be where things currently stand with Jesse's case.
Speaker 6: I know it's you know, we have he did recently.
Speaker 6: I don't think we've I guess we haven't even covered
Speaker 6: this on the show, or at least on the playlist.
Speaker 6: So for those you know, just going through the playlofs
Speaker 6: s trying to figure out we didn't actually talk about
Speaker 6: he did you know a while back, you know, put
Speaker 6: up what a new foil lawsuit for specific you probably
Speaker 6: have a better recall of that if you want to
Speaker 6: give the specifics on that one. I think I may
Speaker 6: have done an episode on it or something, but it
Speaker 6: was I don't think it was in the playlist so
Speaker 6: or it may have been one of the morning shows.
Speaker 6: But either way, you just kind of if you could
Speaker 6: give a breakdown for them where that is at. And
Speaker 6: then there's also movement on the I mean, I say movement,
Speaker 6: but not really an attempted movement on the on the
Speaker 6: gag order side of things. When that comes to the
Speaker 6: John Matthews pat con stuff, all the stuff that's sealed,
Speaker 6: that's kind of that A lot of us are kind
Speaker 6: of like, what the hell? But there also was a
Speaker 6: newer one that happened before this, so I gues would
Speaker 6: probably makes sense to go in chronological order. So if
Speaker 6: we could just start with the new the previous action
Speaker 6: I guess not the last one, but the one before that,
Speaker 6: the one in reference to kind of starting a New
Speaker 6: Foyle lawsuit because essentially it had made Foyer requests something
Speaker 6: in the realm of a belief seven years prior or
Speaker 6: something along those lines, and so it's kind of like,
Speaker 6: all right, you've had your time, now I'm filing suit.
Speaker 3: Yeah. The more recent one was filed in February twenty
Speaker 3: four and that was for all its records about McVeigh,
Speaker 3: the FBI's investigation into the mcveigh's ties to the Area
Speaker 3: Republican Army, which was these neo Nazi bank robbers hanging
Speaker 3: out at Ellaheim City Robin banks to fund a right
Speaker 3: wing revolution and probably funding the bombing. So that was
Speaker 3: one of the requests, and the other one was for
Speaker 3: all the FBI's requests or files on Roger Moore. Jesse
Speaker 3: trying to do originally requested these in like twenty sixteen,
Speaker 3: and he didn't sue for so many years because he's
Speaker 3: fighting this other lawsuit. He was planning on filing suit
Speaker 3: when the other one wraps up, but he realizes that
Speaker 3: this other one might never wrap up, so he wanted
Speaker 3: to do it while he's capable, and that one has
Speaker 3: been dragging along. The FBI has produced literally two records
Speaker 3: a month it's pretty pitiful. So there's going to be
Speaker 3: a lot of news in the coming months about just
Speaker 3: the FBI and what a terrible job they're doing with transparency. There.
Speaker 3: More importantly, I would say, though, is this long, fifteen
Speaker 3: year lawsuit where he originally sued for the surveillance footage
Speaker 3: of McVeigh and according to reports, John Doe two pulling
Speaker 3: the rider truck going away, it goes explodes. It would
Speaker 3: approved the existence of John Doe two. That lawsuit is
Speaker 3: so complex but basically just spins out into the FBI
Speaker 3: gets caught line about so many things that the judge
Speaker 3: actually says, Okay, we're going to trial. Like foil lawsuits
Speaker 3: never go to trial. Usually the FBI could just swear that, oh,
Speaker 3: we don't have these records and the case will get tossed.
Speaker 3: But Jesse has all these records showing that yes, the
Speaker 3: surveillance footage exists. So the judge gets fed up and
Speaker 3: he goes to trial. One of the people that was
Speaker 3: going to testify for trying to do was an FBI
Speaker 3: informant named Matthew John Matthews, he had blown the whistle
Speaker 3: on pat con come out two years earlier, did an
Speaker 3: article for Newsweek that didn't really show any of the
Speaker 3: juicy stuff. So he's going to lay it all out
Speaker 3: in trying to do his trial in twenty fourteen. But
Speaker 3: the night before he's going to testify, he calls try
Speaker 3: to do and Roger Charles and changes his mind and says,
Speaker 3: according to Triniad that the FBI is threatening me, telling
Speaker 3: me I better not testify and if I do, I
Speaker 3: better have a case of the I don't remembers. That
Speaker 3: pisses off trying to do he alleges whistleblow or he
Speaker 3: alleges witness tampering. The Judge, to his eternal credit, agrees
Speaker 3: with Trina Do that that's a serious allegation. The judge
Speaker 3: appoints a separate judge called like a special Master to
Speaker 3: investigate this one issue of witness tampering, and that's been
Speaker 3: going on for ten years now behind closed doors with
Speaker 3: gag orders on all parties. That brings us to now
Speaker 3: where ahead of the thirtieth anniversary, trying to do motion
Speaker 3: for either the judge or the Special Masters to unseal
Speaker 3: John Matthews's depositions, which would we don't know what are
Speaker 3: in the depositions because trying to do can't talk about that,
Speaker 3: but presumably it's about all the stuff that trying to
Speaker 3: do says that he's been talking about, you know, about
Speaker 3: how it ties into Waco, how he saw McVeigh ross
Speaker 3: Meyer hanging out in ninety four, all this incredibly damning stuff,
Speaker 3: some of the biggest scandals in the FBI's history. Trying
Speaker 3: to do asked the judge to unsteal it. And Trump's
Speaker 3: DOJ has opposed that motion. That's the big news. And
Speaker 3: not only Trump's DOJ. It's not some it's not the
Speaker 3: US Attorney in Utah that's doing this. It was the
Speaker 3: number two guy, the acting Deputy Attorney General at the time.
Speaker 3: I think they finally appointed the permanent one got approved
Speaker 3: by the Senate, but the acting guy, yank of Roth
Speaker 3: is his name. He made an appearance or like it's
Speaker 3: under his name that they're opposing trying to Do's motion.
Speaker 3: So to me, this is like a huge scandal. It's
Speaker 3: an indictment on the whole Trump administration and all this
Speaker 3: bullshit about JFK and the Epstein files. Well, why are
Speaker 3: you opposing trying to do like this is egregious and
Speaker 3: this is something that should be like Tucker Carlson needs
Speaker 3: to be talking about this ridiculous.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I agree.
Speaker 6: I mean I tried to elevate this as much as
Speaker 6: like key because it's one of those stories like how
Speaker 6: the fuck is everyone not talking about this? This is insane,
Speaker 6: It's a thirtieth anniversary. I mean, when you really dig
Speaker 6: into it, is just it is nuts. I mean, this
Speaker 6: is what turned my show from a libertarian theory show
Speaker 6: into a parapolitics showed. It's just it is just you
Speaker 6: find yourself spiling around and around and around and around
Speaker 6: it because it is insane and it's just like it is,
Speaker 6: how's no one looking at this? How's no one looking this?
Speaker 6: It does feel like it get overshadowed by like the
Speaker 6: like nine to eleven or something, but it is one
Speaker 6: of those ones. Just it's like, this is pretty glaring,
Speaker 6: pretty obvious. So you said it's yakav Roth was, so
Speaker 6: he was essentially at the time, Bondie's number two is
Speaker 6: what you're so, Yep.
Speaker 3: He's the head of the Civil Division too, which is like,
Speaker 3: you know, the whole department that fights all these civil
Speaker 3: lawsuits and foil lawsuits. So even now he's still you know,
Speaker 3: top top ten, Top five guy DJ.
Speaker 6: Okay, so the most transparent administration got it?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 6: Okay on that sign. I think there was something in there. Okay,
Speaker 6: so we have Oh I did have. I have one question.
Speaker 6: This is something I've always you never really got the
Speaker 6: chance to ask and or just kind of so we
Speaker 6: this thing is gag orging, even said two of their
Speaker 6: credit and all that. But it's been you know, basically
Speaker 6: almost fifteen years that's been.
Speaker 1: Under a gag order. Uh are you aware?
Speaker 6: Obviously I don't know if this would be betraying the
Speaker 6: gag order if Jesse's told you or something, but I
Speaker 6: mean maybe you could say that you just know these
Speaker 6: are how these things would work. But I know even then,
Speaker 6: the special the special master concept is something that's so rare.
Speaker 6: I don't even think Jesse's even heard of it happening before.
Speaker 6: The point being what I'm driving is like, are there
Speaker 6: like behind closed doors, you know, legal proceedings that are
Speaker 6: occurring that we don't know of, or is this just
Speaker 6: literally nothing's happening and it's just like you know what
Speaker 6: I mean, I mean, fuck are going on?
Speaker 3: The things are happening, And all that Jesse will tell
Speaker 3: me is that the DOJ and the FBI have fought him,
Speaker 3: quote tooth and nail every step of the way. And
Speaker 3: I could only assume that means, like he wants to
Speaker 3: depose somebody in the FBI. They don't show up on
Speaker 3: the date of the deposition. Oh we got to move
Speaker 3: it off. Oh this guy he actually moved to a
Speaker 3: different department. We got to delay it more. Just all
Speaker 3: the dirty tricks in the book. That's the sense that
Speaker 3: I get.
Speaker 6: But these are probably other things he's gagged to not
Speaker 6: be able to talk about that, Like all the undewarred
Speaker 6: actions are probably occurring.
Speaker 3: I would hold out hope though. Actually the first I'm
Speaker 3: aware of another special Master situation that was the biggest
Speaker 3: story I ever covered at the time. This was twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3: Before I got into any of this stuff, I was
Speaker 3: like a tech reporter for a publication called Global Data
Speaker 3: Review in London. It was like the most basic, boring
Speaker 3: tech reporting you could imagine. But I stumbled across this
Speaker 3: case where this health company got hacked by a contractor
Speaker 3: who had FBI spyware. He was like an FBI contract
Speaker 3: with spywaar and he was just a bad guy. So
Speaker 3: he hacks this company, and then he tries to blackmail
Speaker 3: the guy to get the information back, and the guy
Speaker 3: turned out to be a Jesse Trendo type character and
Speaker 3: says like, no, fuck you. So the FBI contractor gives
Speaker 3: the information to the FTC, which then opens an investigation
Speaker 3: again to this health company, and it sparks like ten
Speaker 3: years of litigation. Eventually it goes to a special Master,
Speaker 3: which found that yes, the FBI contractor used proprietary spyware
Speaker 3: and colluded with the FTC to screw this guy over.
Speaker 3: And the special master's report was just like the most
Speaker 3: salacious thing I had ever read at the time. So
Speaker 3: these things do take time. But from my limited experience,
Speaker 3: which I guess is more than most everybody else because
Speaker 3: nobody's even heard of a special Master, it does it
Speaker 3: can produce really good things.
Speaker 6: Okay, well that could be interesting because I mean, as
Speaker 6: you know, as I'm thinking, like what you're like, Oh,
Speaker 6: so there's likely multiple court proceedings going on behind. So
Speaker 6: like theoretically the moment that he gets UnGagged, we're probably
Speaker 6: gonna have a insane yarn of like crazy ship they
Speaker 6: did through the legal proceedings, which I mean, we already
Speaker 6: have a ton of crazy stuff.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 6: You know, Richard wrote a great article on this a
Speaker 6: while back, essentially going into the ins and outs of
Speaker 6: the specifics of Kenneth's or of Jesse's court proceedings, which
Speaker 6: it does. It is insane when you go through there
Speaker 6: and see some of the things that FEDS have done,
Speaker 6: you know, specifically in regards to him, like hell, even
Speaker 6: to the point to where he was finding like what
Speaker 6: essentially internal documents were saying that they literally had like
Speaker 6: institutionalized can Kenneth or Jesse trying to do's and don'ts
Speaker 6: through what's his face?
Speaker 1: Uh, the fast and furious.
Speaker 6: Guy, the not Garland, but the other attorney general, the
Speaker 6: black guy Holder Holder. Yes, in my mind too, yeah,
Speaker 6: Air Colder, I believe, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, uh there's
Speaker 6: a question there. But yeah, and just yeah, I forgot
Speaker 6: where I was going with that because then I'm just
Speaker 6: trying to remember what the hell who the Eric Holder's
Speaker 6: name was. But yeah, anyways, the point being is, yeah,
Speaker 6: they you know, they institutionalize it to that degree. So
Speaker 6: I just can only imagine the revelations we will have now,
Speaker 6: I guess, I guess one last question then maybe if
Speaker 6: there's another updates you can think of that would be
Speaker 6: worthwhile bringing up. I guess just do you have any
Speaker 6: sort of idea? Obviously, Jesse is getting older in age.
Speaker 6: I was just thinking about this today, and I have
Speaker 6: noticed it seems like there's a stirring of the of
Speaker 6: the Jesse right now. I've noticed him. He's re entered
Speaker 6: the public eye. So it just feels like, either to me,
Speaker 6: one of two things happens is happening. Either he knows
Speaker 6: something's going on, or he's or he thinks he can
Speaker 6: make something happen, so he's trying to shake up some waves,
Speaker 6: or he might be getting damn near ready to say
Speaker 6: fuck it and like just I don't know, do some
Speaker 6: cowboys stuff. I So my only point is like, are
Speaker 6: you aware of like in situations with gag orders like
Speaker 6: you gotta think theoretically, could just I could just tell
Speaker 6: you and then just essentially you pull a David Paul
Speaker 6: Hammer and go like tell everybody else but just say
Speaker 6: wink wink kind of whatever type deal, Like do you
Speaker 6: know like it? What would be the any sort of
Speaker 6: consequences for something like that, because it would be I
Speaker 6: would assume he would have the very least have this
Speaker 6: stuff written down somewhere for the moment that he's gone.
Speaker 6: That the way this information doesn't just disappear into the wind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my guess is that he has kill switches. But
Speaker 3: he's a he's a careful guy. I don't think he's
Speaker 3: he's going rogue at all. I mean, he's got to
Speaker 3: like this is a guy that could have been, you know,
Speaker 3: a federal judge, like highly successful lawyer. He's towing a
Speaker 3: fine line for sure, but I think he's doing it properly.
Speaker 3: And you know, he talked on Scott Horden's show like
Speaker 3: JD Cash. His death was unexpected Roger Charles, I mean
Speaker 3: I interviewed Roger Charles in February of twenty two and
Speaker 3: he died like three weeks later. I was worried that,
Speaker 3: oh shit, did I have like COVID and I accidentally
Speaker 3: give it to him? Like no, I guess nobody really
Speaker 3: saw that coming, even though he had been kind of
Speaker 3: spiral going downhill like a long term. So I think Jesse,
Speaker 3: Jesse just wants to talk and get this news out,
Speaker 3: you know, while while he can, just in case something happens.
Speaker 3: So that's what he told Scott and I you know,
Speaker 3: I think that's the truth.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but way, I'm not at all concerned about him.
Speaker 6: He's he seems pretty spry, and I think he's probably
Speaker 6: go at least a decade left his anger.
Speaker 3: His anger will continue to carry him on for another
Speaker 3: twenty years.
Speaker 6: Dude, Well, all right, Ken, is there anything else you
Speaker 6: feel like my audion should be aware of? I guess,
Speaker 6: you know, bear in mind, I think the last time
Speaker 6: I've even done well, no, I had the Jonathan Franklin
Speaker 6: episode that we did, so we had a little bit
Speaker 6: I guess catching up on some stuff. But I guess,
Speaker 6: is there anything you think of in the realms as
Speaker 6: so far as updates?
Speaker 1: I might be missing something.
Speaker 6: I know there was an article about the John Ashcroft
Speaker 6: thing that covered the Morning Show, So I don't know
Speaker 6: to what recall you have of that, or if like
Speaker 6: that's even really too worth going into. That was pretty
Speaker 6: interesting revelations that was very in the weeds, though, something
Speaker 6: specific when it came to Terry Nichols and I guess
Speaker 6: essentially keeping him quiet and how he seems like he
Speaker 6: may have avoided the death penalty. But anyways, it's just
Speaker 6: an any anything in the realm of updates new stuff.
Speaker 6: Otherwise you can let people know where to find you.
Speaker 6: I know you have an upcoming book that you think
Speaker 6: you're working on, so I'm glad to see that. In hell,
Speaker 6: I know you have another book like this one kind
Speaker 6: of fell into your lap. You've always kicked around the
Speaker 6: idea of doing like a kind of an infiltration of
Speaker 6: the right wing book, so hell, this will be This
Speaker 6: kind of works out perfectly if you're a perfect little
Speaker 6: launching point. Obviously this is going to be more catchy
Speaker 6: than the other one. I'll be honest, I'm more interested
Speaker 6: in the other one. But so far as like general public,
Speaker 6: let's be real, Trump assassination Book's probably going to do
Speaker 6: more numbers, let's be real.
Speaker 1: But anyways, go ahead.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Trump, the Trump shooting, what the investigations missed,
Speaker 3: and why it matters. I think I'm an ode to
Speaker 3: Roger Charles Oklahoma. That's like the working title Roger's book
Speaker 3: was Oklahoma City, What the investigation miss and live matters?
Speaker 3: So hopefully I'll get that done by Like Junior July,
Speaker 3: the progress is progress is happening, much like Jesse's lawsuit.
Speaker 3: It's slow and you're not seeing anything, but hopefully soon
Speaker 3: we'll have something big on that and yeah, Headline USA
Speaker 3: dot com the best conservative news site in the country.
Speaker 3: Check it out.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 6: For anyone wants to support what I'm doing over here,
Speaker 6: make sure leave all like, share, subscribe, comment, all that
Speaker 6: good stuff. Leave a five star review in iTunes Spotify.
Speaker 6: All that's going on? My camera's glitching out? You see
Speaker 6: anything weird?
Speaker 1: Or is that just be okay?
Speaker 4: You look all right?
Speaker 6: It was weird. I guess it was just my end
Speaker 6: just glitching out. But anyways, I like, share, subscribe, comment.
Speaker 6: If you want to directly support the show, patroon dot
Speaker 6: com toast no Way, Who was a twenty twenty is
Speaker 6: a way to do it. Two dollars the lowest level
Speaker 6: that gives you early access to episodes, like, for example,
Speaker 6: this one. This one's gonna go out really quick, though,
Speaker 6: so don't use this as a marker. This is kind
Speaker 6: of news news, so so we'll probably go in a
Speaker 6: few days, but usually say weeks behind the paywall. Also,
Speaker 6: you can add for you RSS feed there. You also
Speaker 6: get a priority you know call ins on Already Dead,
Speaker 6: which is my weekly callins show also got a big
Speaker 6: shout out to my sponsors. That's my highest level of
Speaker 6: my patron's. Big shout out to my co host on
Speaker 6: Taragang at Taragang Toad, also at aburgate D's at zo
Speaker 6: v r e c k at Underscript phy Zeal, Tim Tuttle,
Speaker 6: at Joy and Cleebold Will Bell's Let's just Bluebery Rabbi
Speaker 6: Wine big for the show, tournamente and at I nw
Speaker 6: a r D Lover.
Speaker 1: With that, guys, we're gonna get out of here. Love
Speaker 1: you all.
Speaker 6: Bubbo's point out. Don't forget to pick up a T shirt.
Speaker 6: Go to toplobster dot com. I got the yiky shirts,
Speaker 6: to try to do shirts, got no we Jose shirts,
Speaker 6: got Operation Gladio shirts, and then already dead shirts, so
Speaker 6: go pick up some.
Speaker 1: With that, we're out of here.
Speaker 6: Thanks for joining us, Ken, We'll be sure to have
Speaker 6: you on again sometime soon. I've definitely to promote the
Speaker 6: book or something. But yeah, with that, we're gonna go
Speaker 6: and get out of here.
Speaker 1: See you soon. Bye bye bye