Speaker 1: What's up, body, people, and welcome to Countdowns, a classic
Speaker 1: where it's not my opinion that counts but yours. Hey, everyone,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me for another episode of
Speaker 1: Countdown in classic. It's so wonderful to have you all here.
Speaker 1: And we've got another three hours about guess what old
Speaker 1: Countdown on Project epochs. So, guys, the messages keep pouring in.
Speaker 1: I'm not just saying this for shits and giggles. You
Speaker 1: guys keep joining the discord or dming me or just
Speaker 1: saying in what the Epoch channel like. All right, Josh, fine,
Speaker 1: you finally broke me. I've been listening for years and
Speaker 1: if I have to listen to one more minute of
Speaker 1: this epoch stuff, I'm going to lose my shit. So
Speaker 1: that's it. I'm just going to come and join you
Speaker 1: over there on the server, and more and more of
Speaker 1: you continue to roll on in, and it's so wonderful
Speaker 1: to continue to bump into people who have been with
Speaker 1: the show since day dot, which is just phenomenal. Look, guys,
Speaker 1: we're having a lot of fun with the guild. There's
Speaker 1: some wild stories out there. There's highs, there's not really
Speaker 1: many lows, but more just like funny shit that's going on.
Speaker 1: A lot of it is me being stupid, which you
Speaker 1: know is part and parcel of the whole deal. But look,
Speaker 1: everyone's having a great time. And look, we'll keep podcast recording. Sorry,
Speaker 1: we keep recording these podcasts every weekend. Get in with
Speaker 1: the guild, Come meet the guys that you're playing the
Speaker 1: game with. It's a global server. Twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1: All the Countdown people are getting together and saying gooday
Speaker 1: and meeting the people that they've you know, shared a
Speaker 1: love for the content with over the years, and have
Speaker 1: for some reason put up with me for all this time.
Speaker 1: So get involved. Guys, listen to this episode, Please do
Speaker 1: enjoy it, and I'll see you at the end. Bye.
Speaker 1: All right, it's time for another Countdown to Classic once again.
Speaker 1: As you all know, we are focusing on Project Epoch
Speaker 1: and I continue to get people popping up in the
Speaker 1: Countdown discord, sending me dms, not that many dms, but
Speaker 1: mostly just talking publicly in the discord about how they've gone.
Speaker 1: That's it. I've had enough of you guys talking about
Speaker 1: Epoch on the show. I've caved and I'm rolling a
Speaker 1: tune there. And it's been wonderful to see more and
Speaker 1: more people to sort of go, fuck if this, if this,
Speaker 1: if this guy is just going to keep talking about
Speaker 1: this fucking server. I want to see what all the
Speaker 1: hubbub is about. And it's it's still happening. You know,
Speaker 1: people are rolling new tunes and joining the guild and everything,
Speaker 1: and it's great to see the countdown Leviathan continues to
Speaker 1: grow and everyone's having a great time still in the
Speaker 1: guilds and in game. Just you know, if you haven't
Speaker 1: done it yet, just give it a look. It's it's
Speaker 1: literally it costs you nothing, it's you know, harmless. Just
Speaker 1: go and have a try and see what you think
Speaker 1: of this erver. In the meantime, I'm sitting here in
Speaker 1: a room full of what is what, nineteen of us
Speaker 1: including me, which is fantastic, all sitting here in general
Speaker 1: voice on a lovely Saturday morning Australia time, Friday evening,
Speaker 1: Europe and America time, you know, the rest of the world,
Speaker 1: North America, South America, Europe, all that stuff. So I
Speaker 1: was just figured we'd throw it to the wolves and
Speaker 1: get started, and guys were going to keep it pretty casual. Today,
Speaker 1: I do want to do another Kangaroo Court. I do
Speaker 1: want some more stories of triumph and tragedy, but also
Speaker 1: we will talk more about you know, I'm interested to
Speaker 1: hear more thoughts about the game. We're gonna hear more
Speaker 1: from people who have devoured more of the level sixty content,
Speaker 1: you know, lads and the boys will be doing a
Speaker 1: bunch more dungeons. I finally did sixty, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: really great to kind of shake that monkey off my back.
Speaker 1: My walk is up there now and able to do
Speaker 1: endgame content, and yeah, I just want to talk more about,
Speaker 1: you know, what people are experiencing, you know, what kind
Speaker 1: of bugs they may still be encountering that need work,
Speaker 1: what kind of loot they've found, what kind of you know,
Speaker 1: not so much going in on the meta, but what
Speaker 1: differences they've noticed between how they played their classes at
Speaker 1: Max here versus other servers in the past. And we'll
Speaker 1: just shoot the shit and do it all guys. So look,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna really call out anyone specifically, but I
Speaker 1: will throw it to the group and we'll go first
Speaker 1: in best dress. Guys, Please don't be shy. I know
Speaker 1: it's you know, the recording of the podcast and people
Speaker 1: get a little bit shy when I start to do that,
Speaker 1: but it is still just general voice, just everyone fucking
Speaker 1: talk and we're all at the pub here and mates
Speaker 1: and having fun. I want to hear from whoever wants
Speaker 1: to speak on how their last week in the game
Speaker 1: was anything, fun, interesting, happen, what you've noticed, what you've done.
Speaker 1: Who's got a cool story for me over the last week.
Speaker 2: I have a pretty good one.
Speaker 3: My heroes Questing and Fellward and basically there's a a
Speaker 3: little spot behind the oozes where there's a Sayer boss
Speaker 3: you have to kill, and I was just, you know,
Speaker 3: a smite priest. I think I was fighting like the
Speaker 3: boss and one of his minions and almost have him dead.
Speaker 3: Turn around see a level sixty shaman running up to
Speaker 3: me absolutely like starts laying into me. I'm like, oh
Speaker 3: my goodness, I am toast panicked. I pressed fear and
Speaker 3: right there there's like a big cliff that if you
Speaker 3: fall down it you go to I think.
Speaker 2: Dark Shore or something.
Speaker 3: Basically, he started running towards the cliff. I tried to
Speaker 3: mind control him, but I'm only level fifty one at
Speaker 3: this points, and so it was like said two low
Speaker 3: level for target. But I lucked out and the fear
Speaker 3: just literally feared him off the cliff into like another
Speaker 3: zone and it takes such a long time to walk back.
Speaker 3: He died from the fall. I just like it's funny
Speaker 3: because E thought, great, you can whisper people, and I said.
Speaker 2: Wow, karma is real.
Speaker 3: Uh, have a nice walk back, And next thing I know,
Speaker 3: he's in Ogrimar. So I was like, just what a
Speaker 3: what a wild server?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Very good? I love it. It's God. It's one of
Speaker 1: those things where I think it's Marcus who is such
Speaker 1: a huge fan of mind control and so wait, so
Speaker 1: you're obviously playing, you praise this MIGHTE right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: have you been leaning on mind control a lot? Like
Speaker 1: Marcus says it's the best fucking ability in the game.
Speaker 3: It honestly, on private servers, especially this one, it's completely busted. Uh,
Speaker 3: Like I did a sunken temple two days ago, and
Speaker 3: you know those like the humanoid bosses you have to fight.
Speaker 3: I think it's like I forget what their name is,
Speaker 3: but like Ogam and the other guy, like you can
Speaker 3: just straight up like mind control the other guy and
Speaker 3: just he does so much.
Speaker 2: Damn.
Speaker 3: It is just absolutely wild, just like it's almost like
Speaker 3: they just haven't done the work to make guys immune
Speaker 3: to mind control yet, so you can just mind control
Speaker 3: bosses and everything.
Speaker 2: It's it's wild.
Speaker 1: So have you mucked around with it much in terms
Speaker 1: of maybe pay Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like if if someone in Warsong is attacking me
Speaker 3: and I have no chance, I'll just mind control them
Speaker 3: and kind of run them away from me.
Speaker 2: It's pretty hilarious.
Speaker 1: Have you noticed many, like any jankiness with it that's
Speaker 1: like unique to apok.
Speaker 3: Not really other than being able to mind control way
Speaker 3: more targets than normally you can.
Speaker 1: But oh, okay, what kind of things that they opens it
Speaker 1: up too, Like just.
Speaker 3: Like bosses and stuff, Like normally you wouldn't be able
Speaker 3: to do a dungeon boss, but sometimes certain dungeon bosses
Speaker 3: you can just do, or like certain rare elites.
Speaker 1: So outside of that encounter that you described, you've seen
Speaker 1: it like multiple times just being like, oh, holy shit,
Speaker 1: I can mind control this thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Like I was in the basement of BRD, like kind
Speaker 3: of where you run into Bready and there's like this
Speaker 3: huge troll berserker guy and he's a rare elite, and
Speaker 3: I was like, I have no chance of soloing this guy,
Speaker 3: so I'm gonna try to see if I can mind
Speaker 3: control him and use all the little elite dwarfs like
Speaker 3: the wardens and stuff to like kill him, and then
Speaker 3: last second, I'll let go of it and try to
Speaker 3: kill him before they kill me.
Speaker 2: And it totally worked.
Speaker 3: I was able to mind control this like rare elite
Speaker 3: guy and then like use the dwarves to kill him
Speaker 3: and unfortunately didn't drop anything good, but it was just
Speaker 3: it was kind of a wild experience, very good.
Speaker 1: All right, guys, who's knicks cap off the rank? Just honestly,
Speaker 1: we're starting super light, super easy. Say whatever you want
Speaker 1: to say, anything fun, anything interesting that you noticed or
Speaker 1: saw this past week, even if you dinged sixty las,
Speaker 1: let me know how congratulations.
Speaker 2: Thanks, Yeah, got to see some of the dungeons really fun.
Speaker 2: Let's says are really fun. I like the tuning. Their
Speaker 2: difficult but not unfair, and it just requires coordination. They
Speaker 2: all require just a little coordination and communication between people,
Speaker 2: which is always nice.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: I don't think that the ability to you see everybody
Speaker 2: that's a little bit loose here is a bug. I
Speaker 2: think it's on purpose because the content's a lot harder,
Speaker 2: but they also encourage you to use your CEC abilities,
Speaker 2: So I think that's a lot of fun. It's not
Speaker 2: just a face roll a everything down. Well, FuG your
Speaker 2: abilities was just fun.
Speaker 1: I think now that you've brought up the tangent, let's
Speaker 1: do it, because I've been meaning to talk about this
Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks and we sort of we've
Speaker 1: tickled it, but we haven't really gone in on it.
Speaker 1: And I agree with you, and you've everyone's heard me
Speaker 1: on the podcast just fucking you know, jizzing my pants
Speaker 1: over the fact that as a warlock, I'm encouraged a
Speaker 1: little bit more to fear, not only because it really
Speaker 1: does seem like fee isn't as much of a necessarily
Speaker 1: a death sentence to a group in a dungeon as
Speaker 1: we've pre thought, where everyone praise that the warlock doesn't
Speaker 1: hit fear because of how far and how quickly mobs
Speaker 1: run to pull other packs, but also just because you
Speaker 1: know mobs are hitting harder. C C is a little
Speaker 1: more desirable on epoch, if not arguably depending on the
Speaker 1: group of necessity. How do you you know? Wow, Over
Speaker 1: the years, it's very obvious to the playerbase has moved
Speaker 1: towards the direction of AOI everything down, like you say,
Speaker 1: you know, retail in particular is like CC, Lol, what's that?
Speaker 1: Get the biggest pool you can do, and just fucking
Speaker 1: AOI the fuck out of everything now. I to you know,
Speaker 1: with respect obviously, if you push really high and mythic
Speaker 1: plus keys, yes, I respect that CC may still play
Speaker 1: a small or you know, a mild role in what
Speaker 1: you're doing. I don't want to speak out of school
Speaker 1: too much in that regard, but like for the most part,
Speaker 1: retail people will know what I'm talking about that it's
Speaker 1: burn burn burn and less control. However, Classic definitely started
Speaker 1: moving in that burn burn Burn direction as well. As
Speaker 1: you know, we went through Classic TBC, Classic Wrath, Classic,
Speaker 1: Like from it was very obvious. Even from twenty nineteen onwards,
Speaker 1: CC just wasn't a thing. It's just spellcleave, do your
Speaker 1: fucking thing, face roll the content. Now we're presented with
Speaker 1: a server that's like, hey, hey, hey, we want to
Speaker 1: bring you really back to those days of like two
Speaker 1: thousand and four where you started to consider CC much
Speaker 1: more in your pools, And I, for one, as I say,
Speaker 1: love it, but I want to know what you guys think.
Speaker 1: Do you appreciate Epoch's approach to CC or don't be
Speaker 1: afraid to say? Do you really just prefer just AoE?
Speaker 1: Go nuts? I hate CC?
Speaker 2: You're ready, in my opinion, love it?
Speaker 1: You love it?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Do you?
Speaker 1: Glas? I should say, outside of when I'm with you
Speaker 1: in a dungeon, do you see many people in place
Speaker 1: bloying CC?
Speaker 2: Uh? If they are beg too, if they're asked too.
Speaker 2: It's not it's not people's natural uh tendency.
Speaker 1: So you're not seeing a lot of people proactively do it.
Speaker 2: No, Like I have to mark, but I don't mind
Speaker 2: because I'm usual. I play tanks, so I'm usually leading
Speaker 2: the group, but I need to mark, right. No one's
Speaker 2: gonna throw out a sheep like I thought. I specifically
Speaker 2: asked for one.
Speaker 1: You're just used to the the may being the madman
Speaker 1: and and doing it willy nilly pretty much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like it's kind of yeah. People just want
Speaker 2: to you know, AOI they there can be a castor
Speaker 2: off to the side that's not in my consecrate, just
Speaker 2: free casting on the healer. And you know we have
Speaker 2: a warlocky of a mage. Nobody just nobody bothers to fear,
Speaker 2: Nobody bothers to sheep nobody.
Speaker 1: I loved what I love there is. I'm going to
Speaker 1: take that as a shot even if it wasn't intended
Speaker 1: to sew. I'm going to take that as a shot
Speaker 1: at ubiquitous, ubiquitous. Take that you, you useless motherfucker, not
Speaker 1: using sheep on it anything? How dare you? He can
Speaker 1: come and answer for his crime soon, guys, anyone else
Speaker 1: tell me?
Speaker 2: Are you pro it was notous?
Speaker 1: It was not ubiquitous? All right, all right, we'll say it.
Speaker 1: No guilty archurs. Fuck you. You just spoke up. So now
Speaker 1: you have to answer the question, are you four or
Speaker 1: against the you know, mild use of CC in these
Speaker 1: kinds of dungeons?
Speaker 6: I think I'm I'm bivalent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm shocked. It's why what what?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 1: What's what's making you torn? On the issue?
Speaker 6: I played nineteen ANTIPC and Ralph. I would say that
Speaker 6: I like out of the type of dungeon, and like
Speaker 6: what you need to do in a dungeon or Heroic
Speaker 6: and look out of all of those three, I probably
Speaker 6: prefer Classic and then TBC and then Wrath like the
Speaker 6: Mindless wrath dungeons of just you know, your pudent time
Speaker 6: just pulls up the instance and they just mandously ever done.
Speaker 6: It's not not as engaging with fun. But that being said,
Speaker 6: like sometimes you don't want to spend an hour to
Speaker 6: clear a fyle, mom, Like sometimes you just want to
Speaker 6: a little quick run.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I shouldn't be shocked you you are a
Speaker 1: zug man. You do prefer the zag zag lifestyle, so
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be shocked the shock that you're kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, slightly erring on the side of let's just
Speaker 1: fucking go.
Speaker 6: I think if if you have a competent group, you
Speaker 6: should be able to like play around things in a
Speaker 6: way where you don't need to assign a sap for
Speaker 6: that trasmobin in the pack and as sheep for another
Speaker 6: and a fear for the third. Like I think, if
Speaker 6: you have a good group, you should be able to
Speaker 6: play around it rather than having to rely entirely on cc.
Speaker 7: All right now, it was the old days of ubers.
Speaker 8: Though.
Speaker 9: Ubers used to have to pull and shape something and
Speaker 9: sept something and used to have like really large pools
Speaker 9: in the original.
Speaker 1: No, I mean I still have really large pools to
Speaker 1: this day. But I mean that's a story for another time. Guys,
Speaker 1: anyone else on this one. I really want to know
Speaker 1: if APO's approach to CC gives you the shits or
Speaker 1: if you think it's fucking champagne football.
Speaker 3: Hey, Josh, I here, basically I was I honestly for
Speaker 3: a priest, and going back to what you were talking
Speaker 3: about before, it's it might be the funnest part of
Speaker 3: our toolkit is actually like being able to like mind
Speaker 3: control CC all these different cool mobs, especially if they're
Speaker 3: a new mob, because they'll have like certain abilities that
Speaker 3: you've never seen before. And if it's like a really
Speaker 3: powerful one. Now you're in the pilot's seat of that mob,
Speaker 3: just cranking and it is like so much fun.
Speaker 2: I love it every single time.
Speaker 3: Like Strathholme, you grab one of those battle majors, you
Speaker 3: are cranking and it is so much fun every time.
Speaker 2: And so for priests, I think it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: All right, Voodoo, Sorry, so you go, you go, mate.
Speaker 10: No, I was just about to say, like, so I
Speaker 10: play a rogue, so I'm very pro CC like CC
Speaker 10: is basically half of my life as a rogue. So
Speaker 10: it's fun to be able to apply that into PV
Speaker 10: as well, not just pivot.
Speaker 1: P see that's I agree with you that, Like I
Speaker 1: want to talk about the Rogues for just a second,
Speaker 1: because like the Rogues toolkit for control is obviously insane,
Speaker 1: and people just think of the Rogues control in terms
Speaker 1: of PvP, but it's, you know, incredibly evident in PvE
Speaker 1: as well. I am not used to seeing rogues, you know,
Speaker 1: and Ubiquitous calls this out a lot as well, like,
Speaker 1: you know, why don't the rogues fucking why aren't you
Speaker 1: kidney shotting something? Why aren't you doing blinding blah blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. I am not used to seeing rogues
Speaker 1: because obviously we've not played a version of the game
Speaker 1: it's really required it. But like i'd be interested to
Speaker 1: see on Epoch. I don't think I'm gonna see many
Speaker 1: Rogues using CC on Epoch because rogues just for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: do think of themselves as the damage dealer. Oh damage
Speaker 1: is my CC, go go go. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: fucking see see anything else.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: But on that point, Henrix, like I would love to
Speaker 1: see more of it, because if I was playing a rogue,
Speaker 1: I would get off on fucking doing the kidney shot
Speaker 1: and the blind and everything, so like, it's not like
Speaker 1: you don't have the toolkit for it.
Speaker 10: No, no, I always I always see see whenever I
Speaker 10: can in the dungeon every time, because I think it's fun.
Speaker 10: I think it's fun to control the fight and the
Speaker 10: help by of my team. And you know, if you
Speaker 10: have a if you have a runaway mob, you can
Speaker 10: just kidney it or whatever.
Speaker 5: Eventually some they maybe saved the day.
Speaker 1: Do you agree that? Do you agree that most rogues
Speaker 1: try to brute force things?
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 10: I've played a bunch of dungeons with more rogs than
Speaker 10: they've None of them have ever used to.
Speaker 1: Voodoo. All good. If you've got to run soon, mate.
Speaker 1: If you can't talk, you can't talk. I was just
Speaker 1: going to ask you one really really quick question. Let
Speaker 1: me know if you can answer it. I was just
Speaker 1: going to say, in the dungeon runs that you've been
Speaker 1: running at sixty as a tank, have you noticed people
Speaker 1: using CC much or not?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: Not really?
Speaker 1: Okay, have you as the tank been wanting it or
Speaker 1: have you not been needing it?
Speaker 11: I don't think we need it, but to make the
Speaker 11: dungeon go quicker. I think it would be super helpful
Speaker 11: because some of those pools are pretty big, especially in
Speaker 11: like Strap and all that.
Speaker 1: All right, fair enough, someone else was going to chime
Speaker 1: in there? Who was that? Was they you lads on something?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just wanted to echo it. We said, it's
Speaker 2: not that it's like absolutely needed, but I've been with
Speaker 2: rugues who think of themselves with damage dealers and they're
Speaker 2: pretty much a useless to the party, and then others
Speaker 2: who are just like kind of just like see seeing everything,
Speaker 2: and it's so it's so useful and it makes things,
Speaker 2: you know, they might not show up on the damage mirrors,
Speaker 2: but like they make the run go so much faster
Speaker 2: and smoother and it's much appreciated.
Speaker 7: Tom, were you going to say something, Yeah, I'm only
Speaker 7: doing the low level dungeons, like you know, Stockades and
Speaker 7: Deadminds so far, and we've had to see see a
Speaker 7: lot because sometimes the incoming tank damage is so high
Speaker 7: you just want to keep the tank alive. And that
Speaker 7: we didn't have any wipes, but.
Speaker 12: You know, we've had a couple of occasions where the
Speaker 12: tanks died and you've had to sort of do a
Speaker 12: few janky things to get through. I think that if
Speaker 12: you're you have a pull and epoch, you can you
Speaker 12: can the whole group can white pretty quick.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And that's what I've been interested in, you know,
Speaker 1: hearing from the tanks and whatnot, because I'm like, or everyone,
Speaker 1: you don't have to be a tank to answer this.
Speaker 1: But like, one of the reasons I've really enjoyed CC
Speaker 1: on Epoch in particular is that exact reason.
Speaker 8: Tom.
Speaker 1: But I view it as I view every pool as
Speaker 1: like CC is insurance, and I'm like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: buy some insurance here, and if the insurance is effectively free,
Speaker 1: why wouldn't I cover the whole party's ass You know
Speaker 1: that that that really good, you know, fucking expansive insurance
Speaker 1: policy I can get by just throwing out a twenty
Speaker 1: second fear on something with a one and a half
Speaker 1: second cast, and I'm just like, Okay, here's a five pool.
Speaker 1: There is a ninety nine percent chance that nothing strange
Speaker 1: is going to happen with this pool. It's all relative,
Speaker 1: you know, relatively straightforward. Let's just do it, blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: But it is the question of I guess, you know,
Speaker 1: do you just AOI them all down, and am I
Speaker 1: griefing the group by fearing one off and making it
Speaker 1: just you know, a little bit easier on the tank
Speaker 1: and healer or should I leave them in the pack
Speaker 1: and just you know, if you wipe your wipe trust
Speaker 1: the process, it's all good. I don't know, it's It's
Speaker 1: basically just a judgment call at the time. And sometimes
Speaker 1: I do feel bad for sending out that fear because
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, we really didn't need that, and that
Speaker 1: mob would be dead by now if we just let
Speaker 1: it go down with the AoE.
Speaker 11: I think you're not doing the wrong thing by feeling
Speaker 11: especially with epochs new fear system doesn't seem to be
Speaker 11: as crazy as blizzards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, well, I'll keep an eye on you.
Speaker 2: That experiences, because that's experience. It's your first time in
Speaker 2: a dungeon see four. I think you should go wild
Speaker 2: with the CC and then just like pare it down
Speaker 2: as you're getting more comfortable, you know what you're doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, now, Las an interesting conversation came up amongst
Speaker 1: you guys after Yibi. I think is going to eventually
Speaker 1: wake up and regale us with a tale of horror
Speaker 1: about a Strathholme run that you did, and certain names
Speaker 1: will be redacted to protect the innocent, or should I say,
Speaker 1: to protect the guilty. But mate, you guys were talking
Speaker 1: about your maybe evolving thoughts on Paladin tanking, where the
Speaker 1: whole server is a buzz with just oh my god,
Speaker 1: Paladin tanks. They're so good. Why would you take anything else?
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah, And obviously that's going to rankle all
Speaker 1: the other tanks and be like, hey man, this is bullshit, Like,
Speaker 1: let's not and I agree, let's not do the thing
Speaker 1: where we start to create a meta discourage Pete, discourage
Speaker 1: people from playing any other tank than Paladin, Like, of
Speaker 1: course you can do all the content with any tank,
Speaker 1: and you can, but you know, people are going like, oh,
Speaker 1: is fucking Paladin the best? But after a couple of
Speaker 1: runs you had and you play a Paladin tank, lads,
Speaker 1: you guys were starting to question the the the effectiveness
Speaker 1: of the Paladin tank or maybe saying it's maybe not
Speaker 1: quite like it's still powerful, but maybe not the power
Speaker 1: house or you know, only answer to tanking that people
Speaker 1: might think it is. Is that the case?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Paladin definitely is a powerhouse Uh. Tank,
Speaker 2: it's definitely is the most user friendly and probably uh,
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe I haven't played a Druid, so
Speaker 2: I don't have much experience, but certainly for the away
Speaker 2: situations that it's easier for a paladin, uh take it
Speaker 2: if he is to learn in Druid. Yeah, like for
Speaker 2: you know what small poles like you, it's pretty simple too, uh,
Speaker 2: And they're very survival. But I think each tank has
Speaker 2: a role and they're going to shine in those roles.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think the reason why it's not that Warrior or
Speaker 2: Druid is bad when people say they want to paladin.
Speaker 2: If they do say they're bad, I think they're just
Speaker 2: ignorant because they do have great toolkits. It's that they
Speaker 2: want to play a certain way. They want to AOI
Speaker 2: face roll, not to have to think. They don't want
Speaker 2: to have to prioritize targets. They don't have to look
Speaker 2: at a skull. They want to take their face and
Speaker 2: smash on their keyboard and hit multi shot or hit
Speaker 2: Blizzard and don't have to worry about which target they're targeting.
Speaker 2: And if you want to do that, then the Paladin
Speaker 2: is the absolute best tank. But the other tanks have
Speaker 2: other advantages over the palad and that in certain situations
Speaker 2: and certain group comps they can succeed. You just have
Speaker 2: to adjust the way you play. Yeah, well you got
Speaker 2: not forbid you ask one to do that.
Speaker 1: You mentioned, I mean, Voodoo, you would know like druids
Speaker 1: pretty much can only that they're very used to and
Speaker 1: can and can only do the you know, the small polls,
Speaker 1: so to speak. Isn't that right, Voodoo?
Speaker 11: Yes, unfortunately, we're just we're very very much a solo tank.
Speaker 11: But it's also very dear dependent too, Like I've got
Speaker 11: call gear.
Speaker 2: And barely any attack power.
Speaker 11: But once you start cramming that up, it just gets
Speaker 11: better and better. But yeah, well, ideally known as the
Speaker 11: single target tank.
Speaker 1: It's so interrupting.
Speaker 6: Is the Druid tank playing the same as it was
Speaker 6: in TBC?
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, there's not really any much difference to it.
Speaker 6: So it was the by far of the best tank
Speaker 6: for reading in TBC for rating. Yeah yeah, yeah, but
Speaker 6: dungeons might be a little bit different.
Speaker 2: You would you would.
Speaker 6: Carry out a small Paladin tank with you just for
Speaker 6: trush and then you would tell them to fk for bosses.
Speaker 1: So lads, just back to the kind of things that
Speaker 1: you guys were discussing. You brought up that, like, you know,
Speaker 1: you were finding it more and more obvious that you know,
Speaker 1: Paladin tanks on Epoch, and you know it might be
Speaker 1: it might have been the same case in TBC. But
Speaker 1: you can either be really good at mitigation, really good
Speaker 1: at threat, but not really good at both. Is that
Speaker 1: the case, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'd say so, I mean, you get there's much more gear,
Speaker 2: there's there's definitely true in TBC. The gear in Epoch
Speaker 2: is better. So I got the at the h like
Speaker 2: the Dungeon two set, and the death Bone has been
Speaker 2: reworked so it does have stamp, it does have spell
Speaker 2: and spell power, and you know it's got both threat
Speaker 2: stats that would need. So I would say it's definitely
Speaker 2: true of TVC, and it was true while leveling, but
Speaker 2: now as I'm starting to get better gear on the apockets,
Speaker 2: better itemizes for Paladin, I think they kind of give
Speaker 2: us both. And I would definitely say Paladin is it
Speaker 2: plays them o TVC, but it's definitely more powerful in Epoch.
Speaker 2: They've given us certain things that just for example, our
Speaker 2: shield throw is instant, which makes pulling much easier and
Speaker 2: just have instant threat and every on you know, the
Speaker 2: first three targets h which allows us to seal and
Speaker 2: judge wisdom to keep her mount up. And also ardent
Speaker 2: Defender works properly, doesn't get lead frogs, so we can
Speaker 2: Actually I'm like TVC, you can trust a pallet tank
Speaker 2: to try to take take a raid boss without needing
Speaker 2: the ridiculous amounts of healing.
Speaker 13: I gotta keep these Sorry, Last, I was asking like
Speaker 13: a comments, I got to keep these meat sacks alive, said, uh,
Speaker 13: warriors are slept on and and this like everyone like
Speaker 13: you're saying Last wants a palatine because you guys can
Speaker 13: just say you the shid of trash. But I then
Speaker 13: a couple of dungeons with some really good warriors got
Speaker 13: their threat was as good as a palade, and their
Speaker 13: damage is top tear and their house like doesn't even move.
Speaker 13: I can sit there and like you know, play mind
Speaker 13: speaker monitor and every now and then hit him with
Speaker 13: a hot or something like one life but keeps the
Speaker 13: warrior up. Yeahs are strong, but sometimes they really spike.
Speaker 13: It's like good, good good, oh my god, he's I
Speaker 13: was dead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's because we will almost well, artis defender doesn't
Speaker 2: kick in the thirty percent, so we need to take
Speaker 2: damage for a spiritual tiement to give us mant of back.
Speaker 2: So it's designed, I think very well where we're gonna
Speaker 2: stay alive, but we're gonna need more healings. The warrior
Speaker 2: in a dungeon setting one doesn't have you know, doesn't
Speaker 2: have another warrior to do it, is going to have
Speaker 2: demost shout and thunderclap, which paladin tank's not always gonna
Speaker 2: have it in a dungeon, so they're gonna take much
Speaker 2: less damage. In a rate setting, you'll have the GPS
Speaker 2: warriors or another tank warrior to give that to what
Speaker 2: paladin or druid.
Speaker 13: But I've seen a lot of puns don't speck into
Speaker 13: that for some reason.
Speaker 2: I think they're crazy, but I mean whatever.
Speaker 13: Not like you can play five points and like when
Speaker 13: you're less than thirty percent or something, it takes difking
Speaker 13: away less damage than is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a thirty percent damage reduction on top
Speaker 2: of your other damage reduction. So that's pretty powerful, I think.
Speaker 2: But like paladins aren't like to be on end all
Speaker 2: like some bosses and dungeons. Uh, silence, some managering, you know,
Speaker 2: and that those situations like it doesn't feel great to
Speaker 2: be a palert those situations, I you know, I love
Speaker 2: having regions seat of matter, and then other situations you know,
Speaker 2: it's great to dump build a front love and dump
Speaker 2: all your matter on the pole, and you know they're
Speaker 2: just advands and disadvantage teach and so I dofinitely think
Speaker 2: it takes more. There's a higher skill for worse, and
Speaker 2: they're harder. They're much harder. I think a lot more
Speaker 2: efforts to play in dungeons, for sure.
Speaker 13: But Vio said about you, it's very actively taking years.
Speaker 13: I don't only come across like two adequate bear tanks.
Speaker 13: Most of them everyone's tanking, but the bearer.
Speaker 1: I think it seems to be the case that I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's as more and more people arrive at sixty.
Speaker 1: You know, I know this game is a quote unquote
Speaker 1: TBC base, but it is still slightly different. Epoch is
Speaker 1: its own thing, and people you know, are wanting to
Speaker 1: work out what's good, what's not good, and you know
Speaker 1: what I should roll for an alt and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So it's it's it's fun sort of watching people just
Speaker 1: trying to sort of see how it all goes at sixty.
Speaker 1: But you know, another thing is the healers as well,
Speaker 1: and people trying to figure out which healers are performing
Speaker 1: particularly well at the end of the day. I know
Speaker 1: it's such a lame answer, but it does still seem
Speaker 1: to be the case that it's just like, play what
Speaker 1: you like. You know, everything's fine, but sorry, Las lean
Speaker 1: on you so heavily at the outset of the podcast,
Speaker 1: but Ubi's just messaged me and said, unfortunately, something's come up,
Speaker 1: so he's not going to be able to join us.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to place the onus on you too,
Speaker 1: as dramatically and entertainingly as you can regale us with
Speaker 1: this tale of tragedy that you had in Strathholm two
Speaker 1: nights ago. Now we'll redact names to We had a
Speaker 1: big chat before the podcast and said, look, if we're
Speaker 1: telling stories of people who have not been the greatest
Speaker 1: of players on the server, maybe it's best that you know,
Speaker 1: at least on the podcast. You know, we feel like
Speaker 1: discords a little bit different because that's into guild chat
Speaker 1: and people are like, oh god, you know, if you're
Speaker 1: getting in a party with this guy, just be wary
Speaker 1: of them. But on the podcast, we'll keep the names
Speaker 1: of the guilty redacted so that we're not really throwing
Speaker 1: them under the bus in front of thousands of people.
Speaker 1: You know, you never know when someone's new to a
Speaker 1: role or new to the game or whatnot and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. But anyway, keeping that in mind, lads, give
Speaker 1: us as close to a ubiquitous style regaling of this
Speaker 1: dungeon run as you can. Starting from the very top.
Speaker 2: So we got to Stratham, Undead and the warriors leading
Speaker 2: the group we got we got Ubi and the boxer,
Speaker 2: guild mate and the orient in there, and then to
Speaker 2: two plugs the healer I guess we were the plugs,
Speaker 2: but the healer, Paladin, Healer and the Warrior put the
Speaker 2: group together. Yes, I was taking.
Speaker 1: And they found three down people to come in and
Speaker 1: save the day.
Speaker 2: Gotcha absolutely. So as soon as we get there, the
Speaker 2: warrior opens the gate for us because none else has
Speaker 2: a key and then says, oh afk one minute. Well
Speaker 2: that one minute was like twenty. It was like twenty minutes,
Speaker 2: and we killed like a bosom between. So that was
Speaker 2: first LA was will annoying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I fucking hate that can we just sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna pause you there and just say, like I mean, look,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think if I've been guilty of this
Speaker 1: in the past, and like maybe in the podcast, but
Speaker 1: like in WEW generally, if I say be right back
Speaker 1: two minutes, like it is two minutes. Like I'd never
Speaker 1: understood the person that gets in a dungeon group and
Speaker 1: either just before the dungeon starts or in the first
Speaker 1: five ten minutes. Sorry, guys, I'll be right back. And
Speaker 1: like like we said last week, sorry, hang on, al,
Speaker 1: you're breaking up a bit, I'd never understood. Like, as
Speaker 1: we said, real life happens. I totally get it. My
Speaker 1: cat's on fire, Oh my god, my wife's just come home.
Speaker 1: I have to go and talk to her for a
Speaker 1: little bit. Whatever it might be, real life happens. But
Speaker 1: like as soon as you realize you now have to
Speaker 1: step away, or even if you have to take the
Speaker 1: fifteen minute dump, like the people that don't say anything
Speaker 1: or that pretend like I'll only be a minute or
Speaker 1: two and literally just leave people hanging like it is
Speaker 1: the rudest fucking thing I could ever think of, Like
Speaker 1: it irritates me to no end, but anyway.
Speaker 2: Have you done?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what he was doing? What was what was he doing?
Speaker 14: He was smuggling weight.
Speaker 2: His behavior the rest of the road would make sense
Speaker 2: because he was chatting the whole time. He wasn't doing dad,
Speaker 2: But she had the great he had amazing gear. Yeah,
Speaker 2: four four PPP set, but he had like a six
Speaker 2: piece bonus and then two like a two piece dungeon
Speaker 2: two set. Like he was a very very good gear.
Speaker 2: Well that's he PLAYSK and bgs.
Speaker 1: As as this. Well that that might be the case, lads,
Speaker 1: because as this dungeon was going on, one of the
Speaker 1: things that stood out to me from your guys, and
Speaker 1: we're going to get into the story.
Speaker 8: Guy.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I keep kind of holding lads back, but if
Speaker 1: you haven't sort of picked up on this warrior is
Speaker 1: going to be painted as a bit of a villain
Speaker 1: through this dungeon because he does a number of things
Speaker 1: that are pretty fucking weird. But like one of the
Speaker 1: things you guys kept saying as the dungeon run was
Speaker 1: going wrong along in discord, lads, was like, you know,
Speaker 1: how the fuck did this guy get all this gear?
Speaker 1: Because you said he was he turned out to be
Speaker 1: a pretty fucking ordinary player, but he had this amazing gear.
Speaker 2: Gets carried and just yeah, just good honestly, probably just
Speaker 2: high and just paying attention. That would make sense.
Speaker 1: Well on that. No, sorry again I'm going to be
Speaker 1: really annoying. But for all you weight smokers out there,
Speaker 1: like I'm not a weight guy. I always thought it
Speaker 1: was like relatively quick to burn down a cone, Like
Speaker 1: how do you when someone goes off go away for
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes? Like what's with the protracted length of fucking
Speaker 1: getting high?
Speaker 14: It just gets away from you. You think it's going
Speaker 14: to be quick, and then you know you lose track
Speaker 14: of time.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, fair enough, all right, sorry, Las, back to it,
Speaker 1: keep going.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so then he also nothing that was really annoying though.
Speaker 2: The second boss, the Banshee, is harder than she is
Speaker 2: in Classic, has some cool mechanics, but it was definitely
Speaker 2: it was definitely a challenge, and Ubiquitous was really pissed
Speaker 2: off because we almost wiped barely barely killed her. You know,
Speaker 2: two of us are dead, and everyone's like out of mannon.
Speaker 2: It was just pretty sure I died an event. Uh,
Speaker 2: it would have been fine. It would have been fine,
Speaker 2: except ub was actually using CC on the ads. And
Speaker 2: this this warrior was whirlwinding or cleaving or doing something
Speaker 2: and putting bleeds on all of us, all the ads
Speaker 2: and breaking his uh break in the CC. So it's
Speaker 2: just like he was just making everything like super hard
Speaker 2: on us. Uh. You know, he's just one of those
Speaker 2: you know, just zug zug yeah on the computer. So
Speaker 2: you was really mad at that because the sheeps are
Speaker 2: getting broken. But and then he goes, yeah he f
Speaker 2: Kate a second time, yaha, be right back and then
Speaker 2: like you know, left and then the problem is he
Speaker 2: gave Kate on a wipe uh and he's never had
Speaker 2: the key. So we're just sitting there for that for
Speaker 2: we can't get it in. He finally gets there, we
Speaker 2: wiped again. I'll get to the wife to the second.
Speaker 2: But because he pissed me off you more than the wife,
Speaker 2: we wiped again for you know, various reasons. And he
Speaker 2: knows he's the only one as a key, and I
Speaker 2: come in with him. I'm just behind him. He opens
Speaker 2: the door, keeps going and I'm like, hello, I open
Speaker 2: the door for me a type of and he just
Speaker 2: keeps running, doesn't doesn't slow down. So I'm we're waiting
Speaker 2: another five minutes as I'm typing in like open the door,
Speaker 2: come back, come back, and back, and then he just
Speaker 2: types in like five minutes, are okay back? Oh wow,
Speaker 2: Oh you can't get in, Like that's not ten minutes
Speaker 2: wast Still, he was just like on a different planet.
Speaker 2: It was so it was so annoying, Like we literally
Speaker 2: ran in almost at the same time, except he was
Speaker 2: a little bit ahead of me. I just needed if
Speaker 2: it was an extra second, I could have snucketting behind him.
Speaker 2: But just totally like oblivious to everything that's that was
Speaker 2: going on, just doing in his own world anyway.
Speaker 6: So the other part of the story that to mention is
Speaker 6: that I'm laughing at you big this whole time.
Speaker 2: We have an audience at.
Speaker 1: This time watching this live up to this point in
Speaker 1: the story. What did you say that was tickling your pickle?
Speaker 6: It was just losing his hat. He was so frustrated,
Speaker 6: it was. It was glorious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so are we had a healer.
Speaker 1: Backstory is my favorite.
Speaker 2: We had a paladin healer and before we get into uh,
Speaker 2: you know, the wipes and everything, I had just run
Speaker 2: before that, a Ubers with a paladin healer, my first
Speaker 2: holy Paladin I've run with. For some reason, I just
Speaker 2: run with more Shamans and priests and drewids, especially shamans
Speaker 2: a lot of anyway. So I was like, how they
Speaker 2: and this Holy Paladin was like decked out, had good
Speaker 2: gear the previous one and it was like a really
Speaker 2: smooth beard run with no wipes, just and the bosses
Speaker 2: at the end can pretty tricky. So it was just
Speaker 2: I never like even got the health health like it
Speaker 2: was just full man of like just keeping me up
Speaker 2: the entire time. It was like amazing. So I'm talking
Speaker 2: to Ubi up like that, like, oh, yes, we got
Speaker 2: a paladin. They're the best dungeon healers, Like I just
Speaker 2: had one. It'd be like like here in for a treat.
Speaker 2: This is going to be a really smooth run. Like
Speaker 2: I'm talking all this, I'm talking all this ship like
Speaker 2: hyping up Holy Paladin.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then we get in there and this guy and
Speaker 2: he was a very nice guy, I think, and just
Speaker 2: didn't know what he was doing. He had very good gear,
Speaker 2: very you know approach. He had the dungeon one set
Speaker 2: some dungeon too, like uh he was he had a
Speaker 2: good gear like it wasn't it wasn't the problem because
Speaker 2: he kept saying, is that my gear is in my
Speaker 2: gear and I was like, no, it's not your gear.
Speaker 2: He's was pressing the wrong spells, was waiting too long
Speaker 2: to cast, like he waits till I was low to
Speaker 2: start casting, and was just casting the wrong spells. He
Speaker 2: was casting flash of light a lot into the Holy Light,
Speaker 2: and just just had a very slow reaction time. Wasn't
Speaker 2: pre casting, just a lot of stuff. Just didn't know
Speaker 2: what he was doing and didn't really understand the fine
Speaker 2: he was trying. But he just could have cut it.
Speaker 1: Let me, let me jump in, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: be far more scathing than you. You're far too nice, laz.
Speaker 1: Because I tuned in for the end of the dungeon
Speaker 1: when you guys were having I think you wiped a
Speaker 1: few times on Baron. I didn't see any of the wipes.
Speaker 1: I only tuned in just when you got the kill.
Speaker 2: I think the toile like eleven to twelve waves in
Speaker 2: the run like Baron alone was live waves. And I
Speaker 2: was like, I told you, I don't think this is possible.
Speaker 2: I don't think we can do it with this guy, right.
Speaker 1: So I tuned in literally just for the last two
Speaker 1: minutes and saw you at the start of the fight
Speaker 1: and you downed the boss, and I just watched what
Speaker 1: was happening because I knew that you guys were having
Speaker 1: the run from hell, so I was like, oh, I've
Speaker 1: got to watch a little bit of this and see
Speaker 1: what the fuck is going on. And as you know,
Speaker 1: a guy who gravitates towards healing, I just mainly kept
Speaker 1: an eye on the healer and the health bars and
Speaker 1: sort of was sitting there thinking what I would be
Speaker 1: doing if I was in there. And I was so
Speaker 1: hard on this guy because I was just like, it's
Speaker 1: not even that he's casting the wrong spells, and like
Speaker 1: paladins don't have that many fucking options for healing spells anyway,
Speaker 1: but like he just wasn't casting. And I mean I'm
Speaker 1: not talking like, oh, you know, he'd go three to
Speaker 1: four seconds between heels. No, no, no, this fucking can't.
Speaker 1: Was literally just standing there doing nothing for like sometimes
Speaker 1: like six eight, ten seconds, and I'm just watching your
Speaker 1: health bars and you're all at fifty percent health and
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, here's someone. He's someone heal someone, and
Speaker 1: not a single bar moves for a very painfully long time.
Speaker 1: And this wasn't like one window of time. This was
Speaker 1: the whole what was it like a ninety second five
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got look at the combat log. It's on
Speaker 2: the way. So I'm like, I took seven heads from
Speaker 2: the bathlow heel.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and like and so I just said, like,
Speaker 1: this motherfucker is literally not pressing a button. He's just
Speaker 1: standing there. He's casting a holy light or a flash
Speaker 1: heel once every eight to ten seconds. He was fucking useless.
Speaker 1: And I went nuts are on him because I was
Speaker 1: like it just stunk to me. Of like I said,
Speaker 1: the guy that is just fucking watching netflicks during a dungeon,
Speaker 1: Oh sorry did I miss a healing? Oh we wiped?
Speaker 1: Oh well, you guys run back and reds meel just
Speaker 1: keep watching this movie. And I was getting so eero.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we don't know. Maybe the guy was
Speaker 1: just bad, maybe he wasn't watching a movie.
Speaker 2: But like when because he was like I can't heal this.
Speaker 2: I'm like literally doing everything I can. I can't keep
Speaker 2: you guys up, which is funny because like you were
Speaker 2: watching like you're not healing. I don't know what you're doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like he wasn't running out of manna. He had manna,
Speaker 1: like just ah. It was so infuriating, and like, those
Speaker 1: are the players that I go ballistic on because this
Speaker 1: is a game that literally just rewards you for doing anything.
Speaker 1: Just just do anything, just press any fucking button, something
Speaker 1: will happen. But healers who, as I said, the number
Speaker 1: one pet peeve of mine is healers that wait until
Speaker 1: you get low to heal you, which I think is
Speaker 1: fucking dumb. And some of them go, look MP five
Speaker 1: bro with some bullshit like that. It's not like Paladin's
Speaker 1: cancel cast.
Speaker 2: Cancel cast. You start to heal and if it's he
Speaker 2: doesn't need it, you cancel it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like he just fucking anyway.
Speaker 2: I sorry, so I can't tell another funny story. There's
Speaker 2: a wipe where this wipe piss me off because it
Speaker 2: we pulled the pack and you know, we're fighting them,
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden he backs up into another
Speaker 2: pack and then pull the second one of like casts
Speaker 2: and stuff, and literally just back pedals into it because
Speaker 2: he wasn't paying attention. And after we wape, he goes, oh, sorry,
Speaker 2: I got silenced, And I was like, well, you got
Speaker 2: silence because by the second pack that you backpedaled them
Speaker 2: to the fine.
Speaker 1: Before that to me, like, I can forgive that though,
Speaker 1: like the healer's body pulling accidentally a second pack because
Speaker 1: they're wandering around like a chicken with his head cut off.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, it's not ideal, but whatever shit happens, Like
Speaker 1: you can heal through why mistakes like that?
Speaker 2: You can't. He's not a druid. He can't cut, he
Speaker 2: can't run cast like you have to stand and cast,
Speaker 2: So there's no reason why he should be backpelling and
Speaker 2: the pole you should be standing.
Speaker 1: People get I get like I I understand that. I
Speaker 1: get fidgety in pools. If you watch me play, my
Speaker 1: character is running around everywhere. I just I'm not the
Speaker 1: guy that just stands still. I'm a fuck with that
Speaker 1: moves around everywhere. So I sort of get that.
Speaker 2: That that one, that one puts me off. But anyway,
Speaker 2: so the only reason we were able to kill the
Speaker 2: last boss, I switched from my spell power up into
Speaker 2: a trusty hand of the Odd, hand of Edward of
Speaker 2: the Odd. Thanks to that AX will help me get
Speaker 2: and uh, I basically self healed. I think I cast
Speaker 2: like probably four or five holy lights on myself during
Speaker 2: well tanking.
Speaker 1: To yeah, keep myself thanking the last boss.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, and I think the yeah, and I
Speaker 2: think the heal actually died on the last boss and
Speaker 2: he did. He did four of us. I think it
Speaker 2: was smoother once we just were like, he's not gonna heal,
Speaker 2: Like he's dead at can heali? So we picked It
Speaker 2: was almost like once he was dead, like everyone started
Speaker 2: playing better because you know hm, and we got it down.
Speaker 2: But it was it was a very long I think
Speaker 2: a three hour like twelve white Strath on them run.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I felt for you guys, But like
Speaker 1: my head also went to, like, you know, the warrior
Speaker 1: and the paladin that you were dealing with, and I know,
Speaker 1: we all it's all easy, and it sounds very negative
Speaker 1: to sit here and dunk on pugs and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: only the people in Countdown fucking know to how to
Speaker 1: don't know how to play the game correctly. Like obviously
Speaker 1: that's not the case. We're not fucking perfect players by
Speaker 1: any means, But like my mind goes to the kind
Speaker 1: of player that is level sixty at this point on
Speaker 1: the server, Like we're four weeks into the server. You know,
Speaker 1: if you've achieved level sixty by this stage, you are
Speaker 1: a relatively dedicated player, and like you would just presume
Speaker 1: that the kind of player that goes that hard getting
Speaker 1: a sixty up there within three to four weeks also
Speaker 1: somewhat knows how to play the game. But it's just
Speaker 1: like it's kind of the wow conundrum where like oftentimes,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, the people that go hardest at the
Speaker 1: game sometimes are some of the fucking bad players as well.
Speaker 1: Can I jump in, well, yes, KOs please.
Speaker 6: I think you're you're touching on the you're touching on
Speaker 6: this skill versus like difficulty or something. If you cast
Speaker 6: your mind back to the rank fourteen discuss so many
Speaker 6: people just say you have a lot of time. It's
Speaker 6: the same here. People with a lot of time they
Speaker 6: can level, right, Like you don't need to be a
Speaker 6: good player to level right, right, So the people who
Speaker 6: are sixty now are like good players who have a
Speaker 6: lot of time, bad players who have a lot of time,
Speaker 6: and everything in between, right.
Speaker 1: True, But what I'm getting at I had a good
Speaker 1: discussion about this.
Speaker 6: Sorry I was trying to remember. We had a good
Speaker 6: discussion about this. Ubiquities myself and the last, I think
Speaker 6: the these type of people, these these are the pascifire
Speaker 6: in mouth type of gamer. They don't give a fuck
Speaker 6: about your time and they don't care about wasting it.
Speaker 6: That's the overarching issue here. But when you're playing with these,
Speaker 6: you know, heading the clouds, smoking a joint or whatever
Speaker 6: type of person they're, they're not considerate of them being
Speaker 6: that they're not playing with a person, right, Like it's
Speaker 6: just you're just a pot to them, Like they don't
Speaker 6: give a ship that you have a life where you
Speaker 6: have time like ubiquities, came home from work, you wanted
Speaker 6: to do two dungeons and then go to walk the dog, right,
Speaker 6: but this guy doesn't care about that, Like you're bigger,
Speaker 6: This isn't the person to him. It's just it doesn't
Speaker 6: factor into their mind. But their action is like has
Speaker 6: an effect affect on somebody else's time and they just
Speaker 6: don't care.
Speaker 1: But in saying that, like I want to sort of
Speaker 1: reinforce the listeners out there, Like I'm not I completely
Speaker 1: agree with you our costs, but like I'm not suggesting
Speaker 1: that every player I ever run a dungeon with has
Speaker 1: to be at the fucking cutting edge of performance. God no,
Speaker 1: I don't give a shit if people are perfectly average
Speaker 1: at the game, even below average. I like, I've never
Speaker 1: been the guy that's like, oh, you know in a
Speaker 1: version of the game where you can kick people from
Speaker 1: dungeons or kick this guy he's doing subpar DPS. No,
Speaker 1: I always reserve the kicks for the people who are
Speaker 1: just not pressing their buttons. I'd be like, you're a
Speaker 1: DPS player, We've been in here for ten minutes. You
Speaker 1: are literally doing less damage than the healer. Get the
Speaker 1: fuck out of my dungeon, or like that, and that
Speaker 1: that attitude of mind still carries over to this version
Speaker 1: of the game where it's like, hey man, couldn't help it.
Speaker 1: Notice you're the heeler, you're not casting heels. Hey man,
Speaker 1: couldn't help it. Notice you're the fucking you know, arms warrior,
Speaker 1: and you are you know, standing still for thirty seconds
Speaker 1: after every pack and joining the fight late and really
Speaker 1: not doing anything. Like I just hate that kind of shit,
Speaker 1: And like, I don't expect peak performance. I just expect,
Speaker 1: like you're saying, ar costs respect that you're playing with
Speaker 1: other people and press a button or two. You know,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to you don't have to
Speaker 1: be the never wasted global guy. I'm that guy personally,
Speaker 1: but you don't have to be that guy. But just
Speaker 1: you know, act like you're trying to a certain you know, extent.
Speaker 6: No, I would agree, like if you're doing fine, you're
Speaker 6: doing fine. If you're not, then you're wasting time. If
Speaker 6: you're wasting time, then you can just fuck off and
Speaker 6: do it to somebody else.
Speaker 1: With And but these are the people also ar Coss.
Speaker 1: Sorry if I'm going to say it's one last point.
Speaker 1: You know, I mentioned last week on the podcast how
Speaker 1: people have accused me of, you know, oh having no chill.
Speaker 1: Oh fuck you know, just chill out. Man, It's a game.
Speaker 1: Why do you take it so seriously? And it's like,
Speaker 1: is is this an argument of taking it too seriously?
Speaker 1: I don't believe.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's much to ask of people to
Speaker 1: fucking like, hey, man, like semi, get your head in
Speaker 1: the game. When you go to a five man dungeon,
Speaker 1: fucking relaxed, bro, trying to watch a movie here, what
Speaker 1: the fuck you care? Fuck?
Speaker 2: Just chill out?
Speaker 1: Like, I just don't have that attitude, am I. I'll
Speaker 1: give you our costs. The principal Skinner quote and say,
Speaker 1: am I so out of touch? Or is it the
Speaker 1: children who are wrong?
Speaker 6: It's the children. It's your time, right, and it's it's
Speaker 6: up to you. How are you value your time? If
Speaker 6: you don't value your time, holy chill out, smoke a
Speaker 6: fucking joint. Wait twenty minutes while this other person you know,
Speaker 6: of course, to the fucking bathroom or does whatever the
Speaker 6: fuck they need to do. If you do value your time,
Speaker 6: don't right, don't don't put up with these type of people.
Speaker 1: If you do well your time, m someone else.
Speaker 5: Is going to it.
Speaker 2: I totally agree with dar crossing you, and I just
Speaker 2: want to just make make it clear to listeners that
Speaker 2: I don't we're talking. We're not talking about people who
Speaker 2: are new to the game, who don't you know we're
Speaker 2: don't you're looking to learn, Like I look like I
Speaker 2: love if someone comes into dungeon never been to first
Speaker 2: of all, I do it too. If I'm like, this
Speaker 2: is new content when I'm first, it doesn't I type
Speaker 2: out to the party, hey, like, I've never been this
Speaker 2: dungeon before. Please help me with mechanics, you know. And
Speaker 2: I and I would hope if someone's new to the game,
Speaker 2: you know, never been a dungeon, particular dungeon before. Just
Speaker 2: say hey, you're new, and I if I've been there before,
Speaker 2: I'm happy to teach people happy or someone's be like, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm new at this roller class. Any tips are appreciated,
Speaker 2: Like if you're new, just speak out. I've found that
Speaker 2: people are pretty generous. They'll help you. And certainly I
Speaker 2: don't view it as a waste of my time to
Speaker 2: help somebody who needs it. But going afk or just
Speaker 2: not pressing your buttons because you're watching a movie on
Speaker 2: the second screen, it's definitely I agree with our disrespectful
Speaker 2: to the other people in the party one.
Speaker 6: And you need to be like if you if you're
Speaker 6: a new player, like you haven't done this thing before,
Speaker 6: you need to be honest with yourself as well. Right,
Speaker 6: A lot of people don't. They don't want to ask
Speaker 6: for help because they think that they'll maybe that maybe
Speaker 6: some people will just remove them or whatever, or maybe
Speaker 6: you'll you'll run into that. But at least that's not
Speaker 6: the way that we are discussing this. If if you
Speaker 6: come into the dungeon, and we we discussed this before
Speaker 6: as well, and you haven't done played this specific role
Speaker 6: in this dungeon, like a hero or a tank. Just
Speaker 6: just be vocal about it. Just say it up front
Speaker 6: so that people know it, like before the run starts,
Speaker 6: and then you'll you'll be treated completely differently.
Speaker 1: All right, guys, let's move to thank you very much
Speaker 1: for that regaling more of a tale of tragedy the lads. Sorry,
Speaker 1: does someone want to say something? Nope?
Speaker 14: Okay, yeah, say not all of us, not all of
Speaker 14: us joy in the mouth players are in considerate. Yeah,
Speaker 14: like that's the paint and weather brush.
Speaker 1: So not all of us joining what sorry say again
Speaker 1: I said.
Speaker 14: Not all of us joined in the mouth players are inconsiderate.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, like you fuck. There are people that
Speaker 1: play drunk and people that play high that are fine.
Speaker 6: I don't care if you have a joint in a month,
Speaker 6: But if you're a pacifo then.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 15: But just there's a different type of player that's come
Speaker 15: out of COVID.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 15: They play at home while they're working on their IT
Speaker 15: job or whatever. Right, and that's the problem.
Speaker 16: Right, So they're sitting there, you know, coding or responding
Speaker 16: to support tickets.
Speaker 15: Or whatever they're doing and they're trying to play a
Speaker 15: dungeon at the same time, and those are the people
Speaker 15: that are clicking the heel button every twenty five seconds instead.
Speaker 5: Of every three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we've.
Speaker 16: We've sort of bread it into them over the years
Speaker 16: after COVID that everyone's sort of like used.
Speaker 15: To doing something else at the same time.
Speaker 16: So I kind of think it's AS that have an
Speaker 16: insistence that.
Speaker 15: That someone's always switched on. We're on the in the
Speaker 15: minority now.
Speaker 16: A lot of people have had it that that's the
Speaker 16: new way playing after COVID.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I always go with AS. Look, there's plenty
Speaker 1: of light content in this game that you can do solo.
Speaker 1: You can be airy fairy and float through the game
Speaker 1: and do other things while doing the content. But for me,
Speaker 1: it'll always be the second you enter a party, and
Speaker 1: particularly the second you enter an instance, it's it's just
Speaker 1: two words, switch on. That's it. We're not asking much
Speaker 1: to switch on and fucking have fun by all means
Speaker 1: have fun, laugh, joke, wipe. Who cares just be switched on?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think it's asking too much,
Speaker 1: but we'll move on, guys, And I want to hear
Speaker 1: does anyone else have any fun tales of triumph from
Speaker 1: the past week, any any sixty dings, any thirty dings,
Speaker 1: anything fun that they're proud of.
Speaker 10: I have two things, but it's not it's some things
Speaker 10: I'm proud of. Well, it's odd things.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 5: So, first of all, I think I've.
Speaker 10: Encountered another arcoss T eight hundred robot from the future.
Speaker 10: Oh yeah, I think it's basically the same make year
Speaker 10: and model as well. So I was looking for a
Speaker 10: Dead Mines group and I got invited by a guy
Speaker 10: and I was like, yeah, sure, accepted it. Some invite
Speaker 10: and he said he typed in party chat, like all right,
Speaker 10: so we just need two more people.
Speaker 5: And I was like, okay, so what do we need?
Speaker 10: I asked him, to which he probably replied with two
Speaker 10: more people?
Speaker 5: Do I really have to elaborates here?
Speaker 1: Oh? No, they're breeding. They're breeding, says nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1: He clearly answered your question.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I hit it hit it answer.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. So that got me a little bit suspicious.
Speaker 10: But he was a great guy who was good healer,
Speaker 10: and we had a good time, very good.
Speaker 6: This specifically making model is generally good people.
Speaker 1: Right yeah.
Speaker 8: Uh.
Speaker 10: The second the second point I was having was I
Speaker 10: did a an omer Gun run as well with.
Speaker 5: A bunch of Russians, and.
Speaker 10: Uh, it fucking irritates me so much when you know,
Speaker 10: you know the layout of Dungeon like I know omer Gun,
Speaker 10: like I know the inside of my own apartment, I
Speaker 10: know exactly where to go, I know exactly exactly where
Speaker 10: all the bosses are, and still everyone is running around
Speaker 10: like a bunch of headless chickens and I'm trying to
Speaker 10: tell them which way to go, and no, nobody's listening.
Speaker 1: Nobody, everyone, everyone always thinks they know it. Yeah, better
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know. I lost my ship. I totally
Speaker 5: lost my ship.
Speaker 1: All right, guys, I'll tell you what has let me
Speaker 1: think of anything else in terms of being.
Speaker 14: I think somewhat on theme the riveting conclusion of last
Speaker 14: week's Kangaroo Court, because you have, like right after the episode,
Speaker 14: but right after the recording, we had a riveting.
Speaker 7: Conclusion we did.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought it up, and I was. I
Speaker 1: was listening back to the episode and having a laugh
Speaker 1: because he's Josh going like, not enough people are hard
Speaker 1: on these counts in you got to kick him out
Speaker 1: and get the fuck rid of them and all that shit.
Speaker 1: This guy has done done a great crime against the guild.
Speaker 1: We're fugging him off. But during the podcast, I was like,
Speaker 1: his major crime was the lack of communication. Yes, the
Speaker 1: roaching out was unacceptable, but the major major crime was
Speaker 1: just a complete lack of communication. The guy never fucking
Speaker 1: wrote back to anyone. So Schmeiek eventually made contact very
Speaker 1: soon after that last podcast recording, and we said, fuck,
Speaker 1: you can talk. What's the deal? And I tell you what,
Speaker 1: his excuses, in my opinion, were pretty piss poor. We
Speaker 1: got the I had a power outage and that's why
Speaker 1: I disconnected from the dungeon. And then we said that's fine,
Speaker 1: what about you not speaking to a single person in
Speaker 1: the guild who's been trying to whisper you. And he goes,
Speaker 1: he said, I don't have a chat add on and
Speaker 1: I'm like, what the fuck does that mean? But there's
Speaker 1: the worst excuse I've ever heard in my life. But
Speaker 1: look he said he wrote in the discord and he
Speaker 1: was like, look, you know, my bad. I'm here now.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. You know, won't happen again. Can I just
Speaker 1: get back in the guild and We basically said, all right,
Speaker 1: you're on super secret final not so super secret final probation,
Speaker 1: last chance, you're in, and we'll see what the legend
Speaker 1: of Schmik does from here. And you know, maybe it's
Speaker 1: me going a bit soft, but I said, my major
Speaker 1: issue was the communication thing. He finally communicated, you know,
Speaker 1: and it'll be if he's so much as farts in
Speaker 1: our general direction from here, it'll be another g kick
Speaker 1: and it'll be permanent. So that's the conclusion of the story.
Speaker 14: You also, you went, because there's somewhat on theme, you went,
Speaker 14: if you can explain why you roached out without saying anything,
Speaker 14: without using the letter E in your response, I'll let
Speaker 14: you back in.
Speaker 1: Yes, drugs was the answer, and yeah I ran it
Speaker 1: by the jury, and Marcus had a good laugh and said,
Speaker 1: you know what, that's a fucking great answer. Let him
Speaker 1: back in.
Speaker 17: Yeah, look that was it was great.
Speaker 8: It won me over.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, he's here. Where did you fucking cidle
Speaker 1: in from?
Speaker 17: I just slid on in and like was just immediately
Speaker 17: captivated by Arcos and his truth bombs.
Speaker 1: Fair enough? Did that all resonate with you, mate?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 17: It did, usually does when it comes out of Arcos.
Speaker 1: Yeah you are. You do subscribe to the old Arcos newsletter,
Speaker 1: don't you?
Speaker 5: I do? I do?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Has a server gone down for anyone else?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Oh fantastic, perfect time for podcasting. All right, Well, look, Marcus,
Speaker 1: do you have any tales of triumph for tragedy from
Speaker 1: the past seven days?
Speaker 17: No, I haven't really been on too much in the
Speaker 17: past seven days. I've just made an old a hunter old,
Speaker 17: but I'm not in the guild.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of just hiding out fair enough. You've fallen
Speaker 1: prey to the call of the Hunter like Arcos as well.
Speaker 17: Yeah, it's a pretty loud call and just right clicking
Speaker 17: stuff and havn't it fall over? Seems pretty good.
Speaker 6: It's insane. How real to mode this class is? It's
Speaker 6: actually crazy.
Speaker 17: Yeah, and that's kind of what I need. I need
Speaker 17: a bit of a wheelchair mode at the moment.
Speaker 1: I don't. It's the last class I would ever associate
Speaker 1: with you Arcos. I'm kind of shocked. I saw you
Speaker 1: on one.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've I have a Hunter on Sorde. It's not
Speaker 6: It's not my favorite class to play, but I just
Speaker 6: needed something while ife I'm rested on the Warrior.
Speaker 1: So yeah, Hunter is very good. Now, boys says, I'm
Speaker 1: trying to think of who else he has gotten up towards. Oh,
Speaker 1: here's what I'll do. I'll tell a little bit of
Speaker 1: my story from my final steps of the leveling journey,
Speaker 1: and then I would like to hear from any of
Speaker 1: you that may have experienced the same thing. So basically
Speaker 1: last week when we recorded the show, I think I
Speaker 1: said I was like fifty two or fifty three or something,
Speaker 1: so I just had to sort of knock off the
Speaker 1: last little bit. And you know, I was having Ubiquitous's
Speaker 1: recommendations ringing in my ear, going, oh mate, you know
Speaker 1: you've got to go to Winter Spring. It's my favorite
Speaker 1: fucking zone. Now. It was unreal, I believe. He also
Speaker 1: shouted out we talked about Angro, I had pretty much done,
Speaker 1: and to be fair, when I talked about Angro last
Speaker 1: week on the podcast, I was only halfway through the zone.
Speaker 1: All the new stuff eventually did pop up for me,
Speaker 1: and Angro was really fun. There is a lot of
Speaker 1: new stuff there. Definitely go there and do it, clear
Speaker 1: it out. It was really well fleshed out. Sort of
Speaker 1: massive props for what they did with Angorro. But then
Speaker 1: what I did was I headed Where did I go next?
Speaker 1: I went to fuck. I can't remember. I need the
Speaker 1: map to look at. I did do Winter Spring. I
Speaker 1: went to Winter Spring at fifty eight, thinking it would
Speaker 1: carry me over all the way to sixty. But I
Speaker 1: actually only got like a level and a half out
Speaker 1: of Winter Spring, and then I'd pretty much done all
Speaker 1: the quest. So I think i'll call you be out
Speaker 1: a little bit. I wasn't as impressed with Winter Spring
Speaker 1: as he was. I don't think they added that much
Speaker 1: new stuff. There is new stuff, don't get me wrong. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: to be fair, there's one new area that's incredibly cool
Speaker 1: in Winter Spring. I really really like what they did
Speaker 1: with it, but unfortunately they gave it fuck all quest
Speaker 1: I think las Would I be correct in saying this?
Speaker 1: Like three quests in that new area they created.
Speaker 2: At least six?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe I'm the problem. I didn't notice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was six there.
Speaker 1: Okay, it was cool, going, you know, in the vaults
Speaker 1: and everything. I went with you lads, and then I
Speaker 1: went on my own as well. Really really cool area.
Speaker 1: But uh, yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm shocked here
Speaker 1: there were six quests there. I really thought it was
Speaker 1: less than that. But anyway, I felt like, I feel
Speaker 1: like still they could have done even more.
Speaker 2: Change got to you gotta follow up A yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: I just feel like they could have done even more
Speaker 1: with that zone. But anyway, outside of that area, I
Speaker 1: didn't feel like Winter Spring had a lot. Look there's
Speaker 1: a dwarf over near the yetties that has like four
Speaker 1: or five quests for you now, and like, like we
Speaker 1: sort of say this, in every zone post forty, you'll
Speaker 1: probably find a dozen new quests, and you know sort
Speaker 1: of think, oh, that's not that many, but it is
Speaker 1: a fair bit like a doesnen new question for a
Speaker 1: zone adds up over time. I went, I'm shocked that
Speaker 1: now that I'm sixty, how many zones I skipped? I
Speaker 1: didn't even I didn't do a single quest in Fellwood.
Speaker 1: I didn't do a single a single fucking quest in
Speaker 1: Burning Steps. I completely skipped Burning Steps, Fellwood completely skipped
Speaker 1: as Shara, that's three level fifty zones I completely skipped
Speaker 1: and still easily dined sixty. Like you say that to
Speaker 1: any Vanilla player and they'll be like fucking what, Like
Speaker 1: it's wild. It is absolutely wild, and like I do
Speaker 1: have some form of regret that, like, oh, I didn't
Speaker 1: get to see the new stuff in Burning Steps. They've
Speaker 1: got this really cool new new questing hub that I
Speaker 1: that I sort of actually, wait, I'm lying, I'm lying,
Speaker 1: I'm lying. I did do Burning Steps, but not all
Speaker 1: of it, only only a few quests, only like the
Speaker 1: first half dozen. But you know, skipped whatever was in
Speaker 1: fell Wood, skipped whatever was in a Shara a Shara.
Speaker 1: I completely agreed with the guys. I went there. I
Speaker 1: saw them like, it's great what they've built. But I
Speaker 1: picked up all the quests and then I saw where
Speaker 1: it was trying to send me and I was like,
Speaker 1: fuck this, I'm not doing that. I'm just not in
Speaker 1: the mood for traveling all over the zone in a
Speaker 1: very inefficient fashion. I'm leaving. But the wildest thing for
Speaker 1: me happened when I got to Sylicus and I was
Speaker 1: fifty nine and a half and I'm like, fuck, where
Speaker 1: do I go for this last half level? And I
Speaker 1: went to Sylicus thinking, oh, you know, I like Syllathus,
Speaker 1: Let's go do this and your zone in there and
Speaker 1: it becomes a meat I don't want to ruin this,
Speaker 1: so I'll keep myself very light and just say this
Speaker 1: ain't your daddy's syllathus like it has. I don't want
Speaker 1: to say drastically changed, because how do I explain this. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's just say it's drastically changed. That's just let your
Speaker 1: imagination run wild. I went to go and get my
Speaker 1: usual quests in Sylthus and was immediately shocked that that
Speaker 1: was not the path I could follow, and that a
Speaker 1: completely new path opened up in Sylthus. And I was like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck do I do here? But I worked
Speaker 1: it out and I did it, and I found a
Speaker 1: group for the what is group content that you have
Speaker 1: to do in Silthus? And I've got somewhat mixed feelings
Speaker 1: on it. It was fun, but I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: I necessarily all the way agree with what they've done,
Speaker 1: because it does feel like it borrows from one of
Speaker 1: the less popular additions to SOD that people have, you know,
Speaker 1: thrown under the bus over the life cycle of since
Speaker 1: it was introduced in SOD. So I don't want to
Speaker 1: say too much because I'd rather you guys just experience
Speaker 1: it so you know what I'm talking about. It, and
Speaker 1: we won't spoil it. But Las, did you go to
Speaker 1: Sylicus at all?
Speaker 2: I did, And I can just say about Winner Spring,
Speaker 2: I totally disagree with you.
Speaker 1: I think Winner Spring is great, Okay, fair enough.
Speaker 2: It was already it was already an amazing zone. It
Speaker 2: didn't need a lot more. But what they added they
Speaker 2: changed that little dight undead knight of ze little area.
Speaker 2: I think it's amazing for the small area that it is,
Speaker 2: and I think two more quests there would have been overkilled.
Speaker 2: I think they used the space. Well, there's kill quests
Speaker 2: for every type of mob. There's also another type of quest.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: I won't spoil. There's some stuff with professions that tie
Speaker 2: in with the last zone, the last little area that's
Speaker 2: like a little vaulta that is cool. I don't want
Speaker 2: to spoil anythings. I'll just say I loved it, and
Speaker 2: I like the mob, designed the quest, designed the terrain,
Speaker 2: and I don't think they could have done much more
Speaker 2: with it. I think the only it's not a criticism,
Speaker 2: but you could say they could have done more more
Speaker 2: quests in the northwest part of the zone. But there's
Speaker 2: already a quest there for your dungeon. Two set that
Speaker 2: takes you there, so you know, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: criticize it. Yeah, I did about a level there, but
Speaker 2: it was efficient. Yeah, so I know you got a
Speaker 2: level the half I got about I got about a
Speaker 2: level there.
Speaker 1: I think, well that that was the only odd part.
Speaker 1: And don't get me wrong, I didn't have a bad
Speaker 1: time in Winter Spring. I enjoyed it. But just you be,
Speaker 1: you know how hyped it up a bit. And this
Speaker 1: comes back to the point we'll have to talk about
Speaker 1: where are here? Ah here he is.
Speaker 8: Where just in time for your Winter Spring review, And
Speaker 8: I'm questioning if you actually did the whole zone or not.
Speaker 1: I did. I did. I did the whole I did
Speaker 1: the whole fucking zone. But here's my own thing. I
Speaker 1: enjoyed Winter Spring. But what I'm saying is every other
Speaker 1: zone gave me like two two and a half levels.
Speaker 1: Winter Spring gave me like one point four. And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: like they didn't add that much.
Speaker 2: Here quality of quantity.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And.
Speaker 8: It's a little bit back and forth. Like you said,
Speaker 8: there's the dwarf in the hut, there's the undead dude
Speaker 8: in the cave. There's the two guys over at their
Speaker 8: other tent in the fucking mountains, and then there's the
Speaker 8: whole night off area to the north, so there's I guess, yeah,
Speaker 8: it's not it's not like it's an ongoing, but you.
Speaker 1: Know what, I'm changing, you're swinging me. I'm changing my mind.
Speaker 1: It was actually better than I realized. Like I said,
Speaker 1: my only criticism is like more my experience bar going Oh,
Speaker 1: I did all this shit, and I thought my experience
Speaker 1: bar would have gone up more, but it didn't. But
Speaker 1: I actually did do a lot of new quests and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking back now to like the tour and truid
Speaker 1: that you help out the Yeah, look there is shitting
Speaker 1: winter Spring. You're right, I'm probably being too harsh, And
Speaker 1: like I said, I had fun anyway, But that's that
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 8: I think it's overrated in Vanilla. That's why I'm gassing
Speaker 8: it up here, because it's not. It's not the most
Speaker 8: busy epoch zone. But winters Bring was shit before when
Speaker 8: you actually think about it, you went there like six
Speaker 8: quests in the error. Now you go there for like
Speaker 8: thirty questions, just only a level and a half. But
Speaker 8: it's better than the half a level it used to give.
Speaker 1: You this, This brings up a tangent that I actually
Speaker 1: wanted to discuss while Arcos is still awake and lucid,
Speaker 1: And I'm glad you'll hear uv, because you know the
Speaker 1: segway is ub did hype up Winter Spring a lot
Speaker 1: on the show, and it got me really excited. And
Speaker 1: maybe part of the problem with my perception of Winter
Speaker 1: Spring was Ubiquitous's words hanging in the back of my head, going, oh,
Speaker 1: this is just gonna this is his favorite zone in
Speaker 1: the game. Now, I trust Ubiquitous, He's a fucking gamer.
Speaker 1: I'm going to love this. This is going to be sick,
Speaker 1: and it ultimately ultimately fell just a little bit flat
Speaker 1: of the expectations that I had, you know, conjured in
Speaker 1: my own head. Arcos raised a similar point, and I
Speaker 1: think this is a really really fair thing to discuss,
Speaker 1: where he goes like, you know, fucking hell, guys, I
Speaker 1: did the Dead Minds, I did you know, whaling Cabins.
Speaker 1: What fucking you guys on about like that? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: it's new, it's different, but like you guys hyped it
Speaker 1: up so much, it wasn't that fucking great. And even
Speaker 1: though the vast majority of us are saying, No, Arcos,
Speaker 1: You're wrong. It was amazing. I think it's fair to
Speaker 1: for Arcos to say that the hype on the podcast
Speaker 1: might be distorting people's views on Epoch, because if they
Speaker 1: just went in blind, they might feel differently as opposed
Speaker 1: to having us fuck withits fully pump everything up ar costs.
Speaker 1: I'll throw it to you, mate, and just let you
Speaker 1: you know. We can shout you down for being a
Speaker 1: fucking idiot any day of the week, but have your
Speaker 1: moment now and again give us your review of your
Speaker 1: whaling cabins and Deadminds experience.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Me, I'm pretty sure you asked people to pull out
Speaker 6: the pitsforks lust for me saying the.
Speaker 1: Sounds sounds like something I would.
Speaker 8: Say, I'm sitting you with mine right now.
Speaker 6: So yeah, yikes, man, No, I think I think. I
Speaker 6: think what I said about the wedding Currents is absolutely
Speaker 6: true and fair. Mum hm, I understand completely where you're
Speaker 6: coming from with with your experience. Yeah, I don't know
Speaker 6: what the fucking Mariam, let's say like you were dumb
Speaker 6: to call me out.
Speaker 2: Josh gonna expand on. I think I can add something here. Sure,
Speaker 2: I think that Arcos is right in a way that
Speaker 2: it's from one perspective, it's not your content is not
Speaker 2: anything special. Like the best content the game is the
Speaker 2: original content the Blizzard made. What I enjoy about what
Speaker 2: Epoch is. They just they're adding to it in a
Speaker 2: way that seems like faith like faithful, faithful to Blizzard's
Speaker 2: original work. They're not like reinventing the wheel. They're just
Speaker 2: adding hubcaps to it, and it just makes over experience better.
Speaker 2: Like we all love the game that's wore playing classic,
Speaker 2: you know, playing a classic version of it, But it's
Speaker 2: adding sprinkles to and otherwise good ice cream. It's not
Speaker 2: giving you a whole different flavors, just adding a top
Speaker 2: in to it.
Speaker 6: I think I'll disagree just for willing currents, because I
Speaker 6: enjoyed it the same small amount as I did twenty
Speaker 6: years ago and every time since. But I can't comment
Speaker 6: on like a lot of the higher level level stuff.
Speaker 1: To be fair, though, can I just say.
Speaker 6: It's a shit level twenty dungeon. It was always shit
Speaker 6: except like the first, very very very first time you
Speaker 6: did it, I've never enjoyed it. So like whatever change
Speaker 6: they made wasn't really going to be wow for me. Well,
Speaker 6: so maybe I am a really bad representative of this.
Speaker 1: Well I was going to call you out on that
Speaker 1: because I think to be fair, you know, I do,
Speaker 1: I do personally I love like a son, but I
Speaker 1: attribute a massive boy who cried wolf kind of you know,
Speaker 1: uh personality to you in terms of like you know,
Speaker 1: and I've been critical of other people that we love
Speaker 1: in the guild of this very thing where I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, when one hundred percent of the words that
Speaker 1: come out of your mouth and negative, it's hard to
Speaker 1: attach much weight to complaints, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So when like you fucking and in guild chat, in
Speaker 1: voice chat, you were just dunking on everything all the time,
Speaker 1: like you never have a nice thing to say about anything.
Speaker 1: So when you say that you hated whaling cabins, I
Speaker 1: just dismissed the opinion because I'm like, well, fucking mate,
Speaker 1: you hate you'd hate sex, you know what I mean?
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, no, no, I get it. And I do
Speaker 6: try to profess that I am. I'm not the customer
Speaker 6: pads that this is made for. Right like this level
Speaker 6: in Dungeon, I don't care like I would. I would
Speaker 6: be perfectly happy if they didn't touch any level in
Speaker 6: dungeon like, that isn't the content that I'm here for, right,
Speaker 6: So I'm I'm not going to be really well. I
Speaker 6: won't say not because I haven't done like many of
Speaker 6: the dungeons, but I'm not expecting to be wowed by
Speaker 6: level in dungeons, and that isn't content that I'm looking for.
Speaker 6: I still haven't done that much, right, I haven't done
Speaker 6: as of k I haven't done Razo fund downs or
Speaker 6: crawl right like, and I'm not intending to. So I
Speaker 6: do preface my opinion here that I'm not the target
Speaker 6: market for this, so, like my opinion really doesn't CARRYMNS
Speaker 6: weight anyway.
Speaker 7: Is that fair?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 1: That's fair? And now, Vestige, I'm glad you fucking piped
Speaker 1: out because I'll have a bone to pick with you
Speaker 1: as well. Vestige, you want to say, are Josh, You're
Speaker 1: toxically positive towards this server. All you ever do is
Speaker 1: speak positivity towards it, and you're doing as much damage
Speaker 1: as the person who cries wolf and always speaks negativity
Speaker 1: about it. Obviously, I called you out recently for being
Speaker 1: like the Camp of ArkOS and just being Captain negative
Speaker 1: all the time, I would disagree that I'm always positive.
Speaker 1: I think the show has been like pretty forthright about Hey,
Speaker 1: this game is a buggy mess. I agree, there's fucking
Speaker 1: bugs everywhere. Oh hey, like it sucks that this quest
Speaker 1: was broken, or it sucks that this dungeon boss was buggy.
Speaker 1: But you know, if you want to get upset that,
Speaker 1: I don't give a fuck. That's that's something. But like,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's also fair to say that when
Speaker 1: we're painting Epoch, is this bastion of perfection and positivity.
Speaker 6: No, but we've just gone from you saying that the
Speaker 6: Winter Springs sucked thick and Gubecutus was a cunt to them,
Speaker 6: like thirty seconds going okay, I changed my opinion composed.
Speaker 1: Well, to be fair, that is so fucking hyperbolic that assessment.
Speaker 1: I didn't say it sucked, Dick, I said I had fun,
Speaker 1: but I don't think it added as much as you've
Speaker 1: made it out to eve anyway, Yeah, fucking read no,
Speaker 1: no no, But also if people it's not the show
Speaker 1: where you can't criticize me, but like I think this
Speaker 1: is we should probably lean in on this. No no, no,
Speaker 1: like not so much you are costs, But like, Vestige,
Speaker 1: are you here? You must be here, Vestige, let's go, mate,
Speaker 1: don't don't be shy. And I can hear it in
Speaker 1: your voice, So you're going to be like, oh, fuck,
Speaker 1: how am I going to navigate calling this guy a
Speaker 1: caunt on his own show? Don't don't feel like that,
Speaker 1: but like I would never it is fair to be
Speaker 1: like Josh, you know, are you selling a you know,
Speaker 1: when you sell people on epoch? Are we actively ignoring
Speaker 1: the bad parts just in order to get people involved
Speaker 1: when those bad parts do exist? I just you know me, Vestige,
Speaker 1: And I've explained this before to people where I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't subscribe to the average online gamer's mindset of
Speaker 1: let's just dunk on everything all the time because that's
Speaker 1: the fun way to be a gamer. Like, I think
Speaker 1: that there is a backlash towards positivity and gaming in general.
Speaker 1: And if you, if you are the kind of player
Speaker 1: like me that abides a bug, then you're part of
Speaker 1: the problem. Oh you're a fucking idiot, Like how can
Speaker 1: you how can you say that you're okay with bugs?
Speaker 1: Like you're not a gamer? Like gaming is supposed to
Speaker 1: be fucking perfect and work well and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: But like I just I'm having fun with this server,
Speaker 1: and I'm being, you know, incredibly proud of professing the
Speaker 1: fun that I'm having with it, as opposed to focusing
Speaker 1: on the negative, which does absolutely exist. Does that make sense?
Speaker 18: It does, But at the same time, it really does
Speaker 18: feel like a positivity is excessive sometimes.
Speaker 1: Okay, tell me, give me examples.
Speaker 18: Well, it's just the gushing of gushing of gush sheen.
Speaker 18: It's like, okay, you just say, well, well, if you
Speaker 18: guys run into a problem, just you know, read, just
Speaker 18: go get another group or do something like this or
Speaker 18: do whatever, just you know, so we run it, and
Speaker 18: I'm like, okay, So for example, I had a BRD
Speaker 18: the other night with a pug no gilties, and you
Speaker 18: ran into the mage boss in the arena. Straight up.
Speaker 18: He is broken, overtuned, busted, wipes us multiple times. Okay,
Speaker 18: that group falls apart. I now go get another group.
Speaker 18: Run into the same mage boss in the arena. We
Speaker 18: got unlucky with the draw. We again tried to kill
Speaker 18: the boss, kills us, wipes us because it's overtuned. Now
Speaker 18: you may say, well, just go get another group, go
Speaker 18: do something else, go have fun else. Well, I just
Speaker 18: spent an hour plus trying to run this thing when
Speaker 18: I only had limited time to do it, and now
Speaker 18: I didn't get anywhere with it.
Speaker 1: Didn't you say you didn't you say you went in
Speaker 1: there under leveled.
Speaker 18: No, we went there appropriate level for that part.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no appropriate level historically appropriate level for APAUK
Speaker 1: question mark.
Speaker 18: Uh yeah, I would say once we got the once
Speaker 18: I got to the third run, we actually got all
Speaker 18: the way.
Speaker 2: To the seven.
Speaker 18: It was with the same kind of level people.
Speaker 1: But what you would level fifty two, right, I was
Speaker 1: a fifty three. Fifty three okay, healing other groups are
Speaker 1: clearing this boss, isn't that right?
Speaker 18: The mage boss?
Speaker 2: Yeah, the higher level people like fifty three.
Speaker 5: That guy is bugged as fuck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, sixties, I'm not disputing it.
Speaker 2: Tunes easily kill the other boss of fifty three, only one.
Speaker 5: I would think it's bugged. Maybe it's overtuned. I have
Speaker 5: me invested.
Speaker 14: We're very much commiserating over that boss in discord chat,
Speaker 14: and we could handle the rest of the arena bosses
Speaker 14: at fifty two, no problem. That one particular boss is
Speaker 14: just fucked.
Speaker 1: Okay, No, problem.
Speaker 18: The next one we got the were wolf or whatever
Speaker 18: and he died. Is I died pretty quickly?
Speaker 1: It wasn't issue. What what I'm getting at these This
Speaker 1: is going to be a bashing of heads between you
Speaker 1: and me, Vestige, because as you say, it's it's the
Speaker 1: clash of just fucking get over it, or you know,
Speaker 1: is the game the problem where I'm like, but but
Speaker 1: I am, and tell me if I'm wrong. I am
Speaker 1: hearing reports that other groups can kill the boss. So
Speaker 1: the first questions to pop up in my head are
Speaker 1: accepting that this boss is overtuned. I agree with you.
Speaker 1: Let it. Let's say it's one hundred percent overtuned. Lock
Speaker 1: it in bang, that's you know, naughty Epoch, naughty. There's
Speaker 1: absolutely bosses in this game that are overtuned that have
Speaker 1: to be addressed. But if the boss is still defeatable
Speaker 1: and you can just come back in a few levels
Speaker 1: and do it, what are we talking about?
Speaker 18: So my main point is that let's say you're in
Speaker 18: a group with the Pug and you're going to try
Speaker 18: to kill this boss, and you encounter a boss that's
Speaker 18: pretty much unkillable to your level. It's like one of
Speaker 18: the first bosses you're encountering in BRD and it's unkillable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 18: Now, we again are gamers quote unquote, and we play
Speaker 18: this game a lot. We talk about this game a lot.
Speaker 18: So if we're frustrated or whatever, we'll go do something else,
Speaker 18: or we'll just you know, chalk it up to whatever.
Speaker 18: But let's say you're the average person coming to that.
Speaker 18: Are you going to be having fun at that point?
Speaker 2: Thinking?
Speaker 1: But isn't isn't the answer? Literally? Just level high? You
Speaker 1: overcome the.
Speaker 18: Group together. I spent the time to go to this place, and.
Speaker 1: You discovered and you discovered the faults, right, and the
Speaker 1: fault has an answer, which is come back later.
Speaker 14: That's not Do you want to come back to your
Speaker 14: early fifties content at sixties?
Speaker 1: But you want to do a full br DA run
Speaker 1: like eventually? I mean, no, sorry, let's take this back.
Speaker 1: You have to Let's say you're high level. You still
Speaker 1: want the items at the end of BRD. Do you
Speaker 1: not still have to go through arena to get there
Speaker 1: or not? No, you can you can skip a bit.
Speaker 18: And I'm not saying you're gonna do the full BRD
Speaker 18: at that level. We didn't plan to do that we
Speaker 18: were just going to go far as we could go.
Speaker 18: But the point is is that you've set the side
Speaker 18: of the time, you've gotten a quest together, you've gotten
Speaker 18: a group together, you've traveled to the instance, you're planning
Speaker 18: to send this much time to do this tonight, to
Speaker 18: do this dungeon, okay, and you're encountering something that is
Speaker 18: stopping you from doing it. That is no fault of
Speaker 18: your own. It is an overtuon or bug, whatever you
Speaker 18: want to call it. There is a problem. That problem
Speaker 18: should still be acknowledged as a problem, and the fact
Speaker 18: that it still exists right now after some time. There
Speaker 18: hasn't been a quick hot fix on it. There hasn't
Speaker 18: been adjustment or whatever. And the only solution, in your opinion,
Speaker 18: is to just go fucking do something else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always going it's always going to be my
Speaker 1: solution because at the end of the day, the free
Speaker 1: game that you're playing has alternate avenues for you to
Speaker 1: go and do other content. Now, but here's the thing,
Speaker 1: I don't feel like we're putting enough stress on. I
Speaker 1: am agreeing with you that this is bad, This should
Speaker 1: be fixed. This absolutely, it's a shit bug. There's this
Speaker 1: boss and the Salamander Boss are overtuned like that the
Speaker 1: salamander bug is fucking annoying. But at a certain point
Speaker 1: you point back to me and say that my saying
Speaker 1: go do other shit is unacceptable.
Speaker 18: It's not unacceptable. I'm just saying that you're discounting it,
Speaker 18: that that becomes the answer to anything that kind.
Speaker 1: Of But am I discounting it by acknowledging that it shit?
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm not saying this is good good,
Speaker 1: I'm glad that fucking boss hits like that. Oh I
Speaker 1: think they've tuned it perfectly. Blah blah. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: any of that. It is overtuned. It is shit. They
Speaker 1: are absolutely how they have a weird priority of bug
Speaker 1: fixing on this server. There's this innocuate shit being fixed that, like,
Speaker 1: wouldn't it take two seconds to change some lines of
Speaker 1: code and just fix this boss? Completely agree? Why the
Speaker 1: fuck aren't they on it? This is weird, guys, what's
Speaker 1: going on? Do it? But I guess I don't categorize
Speaker 1: this as game breaking, particularly within the context of a
Speaker 1: free game. I thought the I hate tell me why
Speaker 1: you hate the argument.
Speaker 8: I feel as if we're getting told that we glaze
Speaker 8: too much and don't scathe enough. But that's just a
Speaker 8: personality thing. Like if you get cut off in traffic
Speaker 8: and you call that guy a fucking can't fuck you,
Speaker 8: how'd you fucking cut me off? YadA yadayada, and I
Speaker 8: shrug it off. That's just a difference between you and I,
Speaker 8: and there's no fault, there's no better than the other.
Speaker 8: So that's just why I don't rip the game to shreds,
Speaker 8: because I'm just not a fucking super negatively critical person.
Speaker 8: And then other people are that other side. That's why
Speaker 8: there's twenty of us in this discord to talk shit through.
Speaker 8: So I understand, like someone can use saying that me
Speaker 8: and Josh glaze too much and we don't rip it
Speaker 8: to shit. I sit here and go fox. Some of
Speaker 8: you guys are negative as shit. Eh. It's just that's
Speaker 8: the whole point of discourse about anything, right, So I
Speaker 8: believe that's where this started from. That was the whole
Speaker 8: point of we don't seem to give it enough poo
Speaker 8: poo reviews. But that's a personality thing, right, So I
Speaker 8: just wanted to point that out. I feel like we're
Speaker 8: getting told you should be more negative if you want,
Speaker 8: and I mean we have been. We've said that something suck.
Speaker 8: But if you want me to just be more animated
Speaker 8: about how much they suck, I can do that. But
Speaker 8: I just don't think it's that. I genuinely have not
Speaker 8: found anything in this game other than other players ruining
Speaker 8: my time that have made me go this sucks. I
Speaker 8: don't want to play it right now.
Speaker 1: We would think we talked about this. I don't vestige.
Speaker 1: I don't want you to feel like you're being like
Speaker 1: shouted down into submission. Like I still want you to
Speaker 1: carry on, and I know, like you're a smart guy,
Speaker 1: you'll make your point and not feel the need to
Speaker 1: cow to you be and I are, But that's like
Speaker 1: you'd be saying, that's the point of this show. There's
Speaker 1: the reason there's fucking a thousand of us in this
Speaker 1: voice channel, so people can say whatever the fuck they want.
Speaker 1: But I don't want you to miss I don't want
Speaker 1: people sorry, not you. I don't want listeners to misconstrue
Speaker 1: me pushing back vigorously on your point as for some
Speaker 1: reason making people think they're not allowed to disagree with me.
Speaker 1: That's not the fucking case at all, but as you
Speaker 1: be saying, like we were just talking about actually before
Speaker 1: we started recording again, my attitude towards like broken talents
Speaker 1: where like Druids or or you know you vestige absolutely
Speaker 1: with the priest the search of Light not working on
Speaker 1: the healing aspect of the talent is that's fucked that shit.
Speaker 1: That would be really annoying if I was trying to
Speaker 1: heal in dungeons, I completely agree. But my attitude towards
Speaker 1: that is also not game breaking. I mean, if I
Speaker 1: were playing a priest, or playing a Druid, or playing
Speaker 1: whatever class has the broken important talents, I personally am
Speaker 1: not like firing up a podcast to go. These fucking
Speaker 1: idiots over at Epoch don't know what the fuck they're doing.
Speaker 1: How could you dare have this fucking class not operating,
Speaker 1: it's a joke. Get your shit together. You want to
Speaker 1: take our money on the shop, you fucking pieces as shit,
Speaker 1: Get your game going. Like I just I don't care.
Speaker 18: And I'm not saying the game is unplayable. If the
Speaker 18: game was unplayable, I wouldn't be playing it. But what
Speaker 18: I'm saying is there are legitimate things you can criticize
Speaker 18: and praise. Yeah, there's lots of things I praise on
Speaker 18: this server. There's a lot of things I like about
Speaker 18: this too, But I just from my opinion, and it's
Speaker 18: my opinion. The glazing is very hard sometimes, and there
Speaker 18: is legitimate things that could be talked about as concerns
Speaker 18: or problems, Yeah, are brushed apart really quickly.
Speaker 8: Yeah, But I'm just trying to say, it's like, what
Speaker 8: have I glazed that is actually broken? You know what
Speaker 8: I mean? Like, let's just say we're criticizing a cake
Speaker 8: and the is horrible and dry, but the icing is
Speaker 8: really good. I'm allowed to say that the icing is
Speaker 8: good and I'm glazing the icing, But if we want
Speaker 8: to talk about the cake, I'll say that it's dry.
Speaker 8: That's where I'm getting a bit confused about what the
Speaker 8: point is. It's like, it's not like I've glazed the
Speaker 8: living shit out of winter Spring and then you go
Speaker 8: there and there's literally not a quest to do Like
Speaker 8: that is where that would be wrong. But if I
Speaker 8: say winter Spring is good because I think that it is,
Speaker 8: and they're nothing's broken, all the quests work and I
Speaker 8: like doing them, then I can say that it's good.
Speaker 8: I could understand the criticism of your over glazing. If
Speaker 8: like I said, this zone is amazing and you go
Speaker 8: there's literally not even a town like that, I could
Speaker 8: understand from that perspective. That's all I'm And again, it's
Speaker 8: just it's it's personality when it comes to criticism about
Speaker 8: things like we're not we're not getting paid to go
Speaker 8: one for one debate class on this game, and stuff
Speaker 8: like that. And like Josh, you're saying, there could be
Speaker 8: I mean, and the Frost talent for Shatter is probably
Speaker 8: still fucking broken, Like it doesn't even do anything. Another
Speaker 8: version of me could sit here and say, don't play
Speaker 8: Mage because this talent is broken. There's probably majors. There's
Speaker 8: literally people in the discord that have said that, don't
Speaker 8: fucking play Mage because this talent is broken. I'm just
Speaker 8: not the kind of person to say something like that.
Speaker 8: I would say, play different spec and then they should
Speaker 8: patch it, like that's the criticism, the devs should fix it. Yeah,
Speaker 8: it's just one of those things. I just I don't
Speaker 8: understand saying that we're being overly positive about the things
Speaker 8: that weren't being positive about.
Speaker 1: That's all I just want to dive into.
Speaker 8: If we want to talk shit things. We can talk
Speaker 8: shit things and then I'll give scathing reviews.
Speaker 1: I think it's fair to raise those as well, like Vestige.
Speaker 1: Stop me if I'm extrapolating, but I feel like you're
Speaker 1: about to say before that you hate the argument of
Speaker 1: this is a free server. You know, sheath your the
Speaker 1: sharpness of your criticism because of the fact that it
Speaker 1: is a free survey. Is that Is that something you
Speaker 1: were gonna say? Or am I going wild on this?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 18: I mean in general, yes, I hear that argument a
Speaker 18: lot applied to everything with this, where it's like, well,
Speaker 18: it's a free service, so you can't have any opinion
Speaker 18: on it.
Speaker 1: Oh well, well, well that's that's massive hyperboles, like just
Speaker 1: settle the fuck down.
Speaker 18: No, I'm not saying you're saying that, but I hear
Speaker 18: that a lot, right in general. Not saying you're saying that.
Speaker 18: I'm just saying I hear that from people where that's
Speaker 18: the instant way to shut you down, where you know,
Speaker 18: well I have problems with this, or I wish they
Speaker 18: could do this better. Well it's a free fucking server,
Speaker 18: so deal with it or go get lost. I'm like, well,
Speaker 18: that's not constructive, you know, to the situation here. If
Speaker 18: you have a suggestion or an idea or a complaint,
Speaker 18: you can bring that up within the context of, yes,
Speaker 18: it is a service that is being done free with
Speaker 18: the cash shop and all this other stuff. But you
Speaker 18: can take it in that context and go with it.
Speaker 18: But you know, I don't like that as the well
Speaker 18: it's free, shut up and deal with it. Get what
Speaker 18: you like.
Speaker 1: No, I think there's a halfway point there where it's
Speaker 1: like I'm saying, like, I agree that criticism is valid
Speaker 1: in terms of like I've said, like, there are very
Speaker 1: glaringly obvious things that in a world where they are
Speaker 1: and they are they are fixing bugs on an ongoing
Speaker 1: daily basis on this server, and so in a world
Speaker 1: where that work is being put in what is going
Speaker 1: on with the triage system, where the priority isn't shifted
Speaker 1: to the big ones, I completely agree, like that is
Speaker 1: super odd and worthy of criticism. But then I guess,
Speaker 1: I guess it gets to a discussion about the level
Speaker 1: or severity of the criticism in like I say, within
Speaker 1: the context of this being a free server, I don't
Speaker 1: I agree it this being a free server does not
Speaker 1: absolve them one hundred percent of criticism, but I do.
Speaker 1: I guess it comes down to an argument between you
Speaker 1: and I of whether or not you agree that it
Speaker 1: mitigates it.
Speaker 18: It does to a point it would probably.
Speaker 5: Make sorry keep on.
Speaker 10: I was just thinking about, like a path of exile
Speaker 10: is free, doesn't mean you are not allowed to complain
Speaker 10: about bugs in paths of exile.
Speaker 1: Yep, that's a point.
Speaker 18: But basically, if if it was still under Project Epoch,
Speaker 18: there was no ascension involved, it was still under the
Speaker 18: Project EPOC team, I would probably give it a lot
Speaker 18: more passing with the bug fixes because if they were
Speaker 18: a first time, small, smaller team blah blah blah. Now
Speaker 18: that's under ascension, I'm kind of, I guess expecting more.
Speaker 18: You know, it's a bigger team or or your company
Speaker 18: you can call it, or whatever that's now taking this on.
Speaker 18: I know they're trying to make something that they didn't
Speaker 18: build work, and there's a lot involved in that, but
Speaker 18: there are a lot of things that I've seen outstanding
Speaker 18: that just haven't been addressed or fixed, which I'm surprised about.
Speaker 18: So it makes me question is it not a priority?
Speaker 18: Do they not have the resources to put towards that,
Speaker 18: or is there a fundamental problem that's underlining the system
Speaker 18: that's causing this that needs to be addressed, and that's
Speaker 18: why they're trying to fix a bunch of them at
Speaker 18: once by fixing the underlying problem. I don't know, and
Speaker 18: alls I could do is wait and hope. And thankfully
Speaker 18: none of them are game breaking. None of it's where
Speaker 18: I can't use my ability. None of it's where I'm
Speaker 18: falling through the world or charging somebody if I was
Speaker 18: a warrior or something like that, or not blinking through
Speaker 18: walls and getting stuck in every object in the world. No,
Speaker 18: none of it's crazy like that. But at this day
Speaker 18: and age, I think we do typically expect more, and
Speaker 18: I am questioning, Okay, well, when are we going to
Speaker 18: get that stuff? Because I don't feel we can go
Speaker 18: on to the next phase of rating or anything or
Speaker 18: into fading at all until we get a lot of
Speaker 18: this stuff fixed, and I'd like to see a lot
Speaker 18: more progress towards that.
Speaker 1: I would book somewhat a we can't go forward, so
Speaker 1: I go alcohol. I think you.
Speaker 6: Said that they're probably working on someone to links. I
Speaker 6: think that is actually true, because if you go to
Speaker 6: the Ascension discord into the changelock for Epoch since since
Speaker 6: the fifteenth or the sixteenth, they haven't posted any like
Speaker 6: resolved bugs or changes. So that's like three full days
Speaker 6: almost of no fixes to anything at least posted in
Speaker 6: the changelock. But if you scroll like backwards in time,
Speaker 6: they're fixing multiple things every day every day just since
Speaker 6: they took over, right, but now we have three days
Speaker 6: with nothing at least nothing posted, So that would indicate
Speaker 6: to me at least that they are working on something large.
Speaker 19: Right, Well, I think the biggest thing that we all
Speaker 19: need to kind of you know, keep it in the
Speaker 19: back of our mind. Also, I mean, we don't know
Speaker 19: whether or not the Epoch devs, you know, even though
Speaker 19: they did say, oh yep, we're done, we're abandoning this,
Speaker 19: we're gonna you know, we're dropping the website, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 2: I think the big thing we need to look at is.
Speaker 19: How long is it going to take them to put
Speaker 19: together a dedicated team for this, because I mean Ascension
Speaker 19: has you know, Area fifty two, they have you know,
Speaker 19: they have the free roll, you know, make everything that
Speaker 19: you know, whatever you want. Then they have Grizzly Hills
Speaker 19: they've got bronze beards, they've got conquests of Azrath, and
Speaker 19: then this was and this was just kind of dropping
Speaker 19: their lap. Yeah, they did agree to help, but essentially
Speaker 19: they simply just agreed to help with server space and
Speaker 19: some of the networking type stuff.
Speaker 1: So it's not the product.
Speaker 2: What's that.
Speaker 6: I think they agreed to acquire the product, not to
Speaker 6: just help with servers. I think that was just the
Speaker 6: first they.
Speaker 19: Agreed to take full control of the product when Epoch
Speaker 19: about out completely. So when they got that, when they
Speaker 19: got that season desist, when they got that season desist,
Speaker 19: that's when Epoch was like, Nope, we're done. And then
Speaker 19: supposedly supposedly yes, but you know, maybe a lot of
Speaker 19: it has to do with, you know, having to find
Speaker 19: that other team because I mean they look, you go
Speaker 19: to the Ascension website and just just take a long,
Speaker 19: hard look at everything that they're doing. And yes, there
Speaker 19: are multiple teams and there's hundreds of people working on
Speaker 19: this game. But you know, look how you look back
Speaker 19: like Classic, you know, the original Classic team was for people, right, huh?
Speaker 19: And what it takes like the original Classic team, like
Speaker 19: when they started putting Classic back there was only Yeah,
Speaker 19: like there was originally just like four people, you know,
Speaker 19: and then when it got bigger and bigger, and the
Speaker 19: idea became more and more you know, rounded out, you know.
Speaker 2: And then it became it did.
Speaker 19: It became bigger, and Epoch obviously has a hell of
Speaker 19: a following. I mean there was what nine thousand people
Speaker 19: on it one time earlier. I mean, are are they
Speaker 19: trying to protect their rights with as far as their
Speaker 19: stuff with Bronze Beard? Is it gonna conflict with what
Speaker 19: they're trying to do with their style classic Blass? So
Speaker 19: obviously they're not gonna you know, dedicate that team to this,
Speaker 19: so we kind of needed I think it'd be nice
Speaker 19: to just kind of take a step back and kind
Speaker 19: of look, because we have heard, I don't know if
Speaker 19: it's been confirmed or not, but we have heard that
Speaker 19: they do have Phase two ready already.
Speaker 8: So but.
Speaker 2: You're going, you're right hearing.
Speaker 6: That the that the team is gone, right, And I
Speaker 6: think if if we make that assumption that the Epoch
Speaker 6: team is gone, that they are not part of development anymore,
Speaker 6: then yeah, of course the Ascension dev team cont just
Speaker 6: take a large project like this and on top of
Speaker 6: the projects that they already have. But I don't think
Speaker 6: we can assume just that the devs are just fucked up.
Speaker 19: Well, I think I think really though, I mean kind
Speaker 19: of as as dedicated players like we all are, I
Speaker 19: think maybe we should make that go ahead and make
Speaker 19: that as some that maybe, you know, once they got
Speaker 19: rid of it, maybe possibly essentially said Okay, well, if
Speaker 19: you're going to do this and you're gonna do that,
Speaker 19: then we don't want you. We want to bring in fresh,
Speaker 19: fresh eyes on this.
Speaker 1: It's a possibility. It's absolutely a possibility that they genuinely
Speaker 1: were spooked enough by the legality of everything that they
Speaker 1: just fucking no doubt. It's absolutely a possibility.
Speaker 18: Yeah, to build a.
Speaker 1: Whole new deliverer.
Speaker 6: You're you're perfectly capable of creating an anonymous discord account
Speaker 6: of the get up account to work on a private
Speaker 6: for a project without being fund out.
Speaker 1: No. No, but that's what I'm saying. But but it's not
Speaker 1: about it's not about probability, archass, it's about possibility, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So, like, it's equally possible that
Speaker 1: the epochs they have said, uh, yeah, fuck you, we're
Speaker 1: just going to say we're leaving, but we're just going
Speaker 1: to keep working on the game and honors anonymously as
Speaker 1: it is as possible that they were completely spurked and said,
Speaker 1: you know what, this is a bit too adult for us.
Speaker 1: We're leaving, of course.
Speaker 6: Like, and we don't know any of the behind the
Speaker 6: scenes information, right we can only speculate, but I would
Speaker 6: think that there's in whichever agreement was made between the
Speaker 6: Epoch team and the Ascension team, there's financial incentive for
Speaker 6: them to stay. Like they will have invested a lot
Speaker 6: of time and probably some of their own funds into
Speaker 6: creating the project over the however many years it was
Speaker 6: their own project. I don't think people with technical knowledge
Speaker 6: will run away from financial investment that they made because
Speaker 6: they're afraid the FBI is, like, I don't know, have
Speaker 6: a fucking key look around their computer or something. I
Speaker 6: don't think that's realistic. But you know, this is super speculation, right,
Speaker 6: I mean.
Speaker 14: It's impossible to know, but from the player perspective, we
Speaker 14: should work under the assumption that they're gone, whether however
Speaker 14: likely or unlikely. That is, because that's at least the
Speaker 14: official stance.
Speaker 6: I think that's a fine slums to take, right but
Speaker 6: you know, I just think everything should be you know,
Speaker 6: haven't uster it's it's complete speculations.
Speaker 9: Yeah, but if you're a mom and dad and that
Speaker 9: was your passion project to develop a pop right and
Speaker 9: as soon as someone comes and knocks on your door
Speaker 9: or send you an email saying, you know, says didn't desist,
Speaker 9: you're going to stop, right because you've got other things
Speaker 9: on the balls, are on the line with the whole family.
Speaker 18: And yeah, but you had to know that was going
Speaker 18: to happen, I mean even and get it of you
Speaker 18: like you knew it was going to happen eventually.
Speaker 6: You've been working on this for two years. Like you
Speaker 6: can't do that with the assumption. That's like, no one.
Speaker 14: Didn't the guys know they already already made the sale
Speaker 14: and they got their bag and there was nothing really
Speaker 14: more for them anyway.
Speaker 18: Yeah, you know, and maybe they paid up there you're saying.
Speaker 6: There, you get to another point, right, if they made
Speaker 6: a sale, if they sold the project to Ascension, then
Speaker 6: it is upon Ascension to keep developers on. It doesn't
Speaker 6: matter if it's the old developers or if it's new ones.
Speaker 6: But the first assumption was that this project fell into
Speaker 6: their laps and they don't have the dev team to
Speaker 6: pick it up. But if Ascension went into a contract
Speaker 6: negotiation to buy a project, they wouldn't do that unless
Speaker 6: they have developers to develop the project.
Speaker 9: Yeah, and if you were selling up to me, you
Speaker 9: would have a transition period where I'd still consult for
Speaker 9: you and give you like of course roadmap and the
Speaker 9: items that you needed to You would on board everyone
Speaker 9: who's new, and you transition to a new team that
Speaker 9: are going to develop. And so the new team are
Speaker 9: developing and you're consulting for them. That's what the EPOP
Speaker 9: team will do, just be consultants.
Speaker 18: Or unless he really got spooked and changed his mind
Speaker 18: and buggered off.
Speaker 1: You can have we have no id, we have no idea.
Speaker 6: You can easily have a consultation and discussion that is
Speaker 6: completely hypothetical.
Speaker 19: Right then, Well didn't didn't So after Nestalarius didn't, After
Speaker 19: they got that seasoned assist and they shut down, didn't
Speaker 19: they turn around and also make another They released.
Speaker 6: They released the source code and we had Lights of
Speaker 6: one and Lights of two which was based off the TB.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's the same people.
Speaker 14: MHM from our perspective at this point, does it.
Speaker 19: Matter like, oh no, I'm having a blast.
Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean I don't really. Personally, I don't care
Speaker 14: either way as far as criticism of it goes, which
Speaker 14: I think is super valid, and I often share a
Speaker 14: lot of the criticism the Vestage has, at least in
Speaker 14: our discord chat. I think the value of it from
Speaker 14: my perspective is being able to like try and put
Speaker 14: whatever influence we can towards the future Blizzard Classic Plus
Speaker 14: and just trying to like it's worthwhile having the criticism
Speaker 14: and airing the criticism so that mistakes that were made
Speaker 14: on Epoch are not repeated in a future official Classic Plus.
Speaker 1: You know when that well.
Speaker 18: And don't get me wrong, I am very positive on
Speaker 18: this server. There are some things on day done in
Speaker 18: here that I absolutely love.
Speaker 1: But no one. I don't want you to feel like
Speaker 1: no one's forcing you to be like I know you
Speaker 1: kind of noo say what I want to say.
Speaker 18: I say what I'm wanting to help me damned but yeah, sorry, Josh,
Speaker 18: the check didn't clear this week. So I'm going to
Speaker 18: say what I want to say exactly exactly.
Speaker 19: I'll tell you what though, I got to kind of
Speaker 19: reiterate back on what you know. Something Josh had said
Speaker 19: in the last part was, you know, Blizzard turns around
Speaker 19: and they make their classic plus if it's not anything
Speaker 19: close to what we've been seeing, whether you're you've played
Speaker 19: t Wow or Epoch or on Broad'sbeard or Conquest of
Speaker 19: Asrath or anything like that, If Blizzard doesn't pull something
Speaker 19: out of their hat, I'm fucking done. Like I can't
Speaker 19: I completely uninstalled Battle dun It, like I can't even.
Speaker 1: Can I just mention on that just this is relatively
Speaker 1: tangential to and thank you so much for a brilliant
Speaker 1: discussion there, guys, Like, by no means are we necessarily
Speaker 1: done with that? That might carry on in future episodes,
Speaker 1: And like, like I said, sorry, I don't mean to
Speaker 1: sound like condescending, because that's not the message I'm trying
Speaker 1: to send. But like when I say the vestige, like,
Speaker 1: you know, don't feel compelled to say that, you know, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: obligatory just for Josh, Yes, this server is fun, Like,
Speaker 1: by no means does anyone feel the need to say that?
Speaker 1: But on this tangent, we might come back to the
Speaker 1: negative TDVDY thing in a second, because Like I said,
Speaker 1: I think we're all agreeing that the criticisms are valid.
Speaker 1: It's now just a forum or a debate on how
Speaker 1: those criticisms, sorry, how the problems with the server make
Speaker 1: you feel. But anyway, on this note about the Blizzard thing,
Speaker 1: I've been wondering over the last few days, how I
Speaker 1: will feel, and I genuinely don't know the answer at
Speaker 1: this stage, how I will feel in the hypothetical world
Speaker 1: where Blizzard releases a fucking great Classic Plus. Let's just say,
Speaker 1: just completely hypothetically, they knock it out of the park
Speaker 1: ten out of ten. Oh my god, it's really good.
Speaker 1: But it is still inundated with bots and gold selling
Speaker 1: and all the bullshit with RMT, and none of that
Speaker 1: has changed from what SOD was, from what Anniversary is.
Speaker 1: All that shit, Your chat is still flooded with, you know,
Speaker 1: all the same fucking things that you normally see, all
Speaker 1: that shit. How would you feel about that Classic Plus product?
Speaker 1: And would you still play it?
Speaker 2: Absolutely not?
Speaker 5: Hell? Now?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: So are we saying and because this is what I'm
Speaker 1: leaning towards, are we saying It's not about the content anymore,
Speaker 1: It's about the management.
Speaker 2: The gameplay experience.
Speaker 9: On epak just takes over from the no bots.
Speaker 8: And no money. I'd still play.
Speaker 17: When I made my Hunter last night, probably ten ten
Speaker 17: spam names keyboard match names were just popping in with me.
Speaker 17: It's a scale thing. They're managing three servers, two servers,
Speaker 17: and they've got eyes on the problem, whereas Blizzard's got
Speaker 17: to manage you know, fucking shiploads more servers, tens of
Speaker 17: thousands of more people and way more creations of characters
Speaker 17: and accounts like are doing a great job.
Speaker 8: It's just like to say there is no bots is yeah,
Speaker 8: but they don't get far, like there's always going to
Speaker 8: be a look before bot. But the thing is why
Speaker 8: they don't get far.
Speaker 17: Yeah, why they don't get far is because there's like
Speaker 17: less to look at, Like it's a much smaller scale.
Speaker 8: Ah, I would I strongly disagree. No, they're just people
Speaker 8: to actually yeah, like this, I understand.
Speaker 17: Is that, but is that plausible, like isla people to
Speaker 17: watch millions.
Speaker 8: Of of Yes, I've said this facetiously multiple times. Blizzard
Speaker 8: could fucking employ me to do it for free, and
Speaker 8: I guarantee you I could single handedly just per bots
Speaker 8: ll fucking day, like one man one GM man could
Speaker 8: just purge classic of bots comfortably in an eight hour shift.
Speaker 8: You could fuck off fifty thousand fucking bots pretty easily.
Speaker 18: You could get a volunteer for us to do this
Speaker 18: if they really want to solve the problem. That they
Speaker 18: just don't really want to solve the problem because there
Speaker 18: are different uh points of view with what they want.
Speaker 18: Epoch wants to solve the bot problem right away because
Speaker 18: bots are only going to hurt them. It's only going
Speaker 18: to hurt the server. It's only going to hurt people's
Speaker 18: impressions of it. Versus Blizzard. You're paying a sub feet,
Speaker 18: so they're getting money from these bots being there. So
Speaker 18: they want the maximum amount of bots that can be
Speaker 18: allowed without damaging the server, and so that there are always.
Speaker 17: Like five isn't worth you know, like it's not worth it, but.
Speaker 18: It doesn't turn off one stuff doesn't do something about it.
Speaker 17: I don't think they should do something different, for sure,
Speaker 17: like they need to do more yep. But to say
Speaker 17: that this server is perfect and that bots don't exist
Speaker 17: is wrong.
Speaker 2: I don't think the service, it's their policy is perfect
Speaker 2: towards it.
Speaker 17: I'm not sure that it is though, you know, like
Speaker 17: it's like they still exist. If it was perfect, they
Speaker 17: wouldn't even be longing?
Speaker 1: Can I say, though, just on that Marcus, what like
Speaker 1: this is such a silly thing to say, But how
Speaker 1: do we deem perfection? Because like, there is an obvious
Speaker 1: answer to that question. But what I'm getting at is
Speaker 1: I am still I'm going to give you right now
Speaker 1: my slash play, which is something very disgusting. Oh wait,
Speaker 1: I'm on the wrong character. Let's say I'm at ten
Speaker 1: days because I am a ten days slash play right
Speaker 1: two hundred and forty two hundred and fifty hours on
Speaker 1: this server. If through my journey through all the zones
Speaker 1: and I'm back on an Olt now, I'm at level
Speaker 1: nineteen on my Paladin going through Silver Pine, went through
Speaker 1: most of the zones in the world on my one
Speaker 1: to sixty journey on my Warlock over the last month.
Speaker 1: If I've gone through that journey and I've seen one bot,
Speaker 1: is it?
Speaker 8: Is it?
Speaker 1: I'm not incorrect for saying bots absolutely exist on this server,
Speaker 1: but at what point? Is is it a semi disingenuous
Speaker 1: point to make where they virtually don't exist? If you
Speaker 1: know what I mean?
Speaker 17: Yeah, I mean, like the fact that they do exist.
Speaker 17: I mean, I'm pretty like black and white on it.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 17: If they exist, they exist until they don't exist exist.
Speaker 17: But what I'm getting out isn't incorrect, no, no, but.
Speaker 1: That we're getting into the ultimate semantics argument here. But
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is by you sort of stressing the point. Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: don't say bots don't exist here when they absolutely do,
Speaker 1: you are correct. But when we're talking about what percentage
Speaker 1: of the overall population and how often are you encountering them,
Speaker 1: at what point, even though they exist, are they still
Speaker 1: a bit of a boogeyman?
Speaker 17: I mean, as long as they're generating some sort of
Speaker 17: money and offloading it before they can get banned. And yes,
Speaker 17: it's a problem. And the one that I've seen in
Speaker 17: thousand needles was like level thirty four, So that's made
Speaker 17: a little bit of gold and pumped it into the economy.
Speaker 5: But where they.
Speaker 17: Differ here is they're really targeting the market as well.
Speaker 17: I think that's a great initiative, banning people for buying gold.
Speaker 2: It's great.
Speaker 8: There's always going to be cheap, right, Yeah, there's always
Speaker 8: going to be This feels a bit like saying there's
Speaker 8: no knife crime and someone goes, well, one person did
Speaker 8: get stabed fourteen years ago, so knife crime does exist,
Speaker 8: and it's like, yeah, yeah, but you know not, there's
Speaker 8: not nine stabbings a day like it's the impact of
Speaker 8: the bots on here is almost zero, Like they have
Speaker 8: zero point zero one percent impact on the fucking server
Speaker 8: compared to until.
Speaker 17: I mean, I get it, but I'm always going to
Speaker 17: go I'm always going to be like, well they exist,
Speaker 17: I see them, and until I don't see them or
Speaker 17: shown that they just don't exist somehow, then I'll say
Speaker 17: that they exist. I mean, there's no way to get
Speaker 17: me away from that.
Speaker 1: That's there. How many how many have you seen? I
Speaker 1: feel like an ask mate, how many have you seen? Now?
Speaker 17: Well, it was probably three until last night when I
Speaker 17: logged on, and I've seen ten come on while I
Speaker 17: was just in that one area. So when they'll probably
Speaker 17: just remove like straight away right.
Speaker 5: If there was a.
Speaker 17: GM there watching, they would have been deleted because there
Speaker 17: was just like ten people with key mash names log
Speaker 17: on almost instantly right at the same time.
Speaker 5: I made my character.
Speaker 17: And then I didn't really pay much mind to it.
Speaker 17: But yeah, three others prior to that.
Speaker 1: Let me let me pull us back, you've bet something
Speaker 1: you said earlier, because this whole conversation is around I
Speaker 1: want to get to the crux of how customers feel
Speaker 1: in terms of Blizzard has just created the greatest fucking
Speaker 1: Classic Plus server of all time, but it's riddled with
Speaker 1: bots and r m T. Still you be, you said,
Speaker 1: And I haven't given my answer because, like I said,
Speaker 1: this is the the conundrum I'm having. I don't know
Speaker 1: what my answer is. I think I know the answer,
Speaker 1: but I'm not sold on myself yet. You said you'd
Speaker 1: still check it out talk to us more about that.
Speaker 8: I'd definitely play any official Classic Plus that they release
Speaker 8: at least give it a try, and just being honest
Speaker 8: with myself, i'd probably play it religiously like I have
Speaker 8: all the other versions that have been riddled with bots anyway,
Speaker 8: but I would just be annoyed by it, you know
Speaker 8: what I mean. It's not it's kind of like I mean,
Speaker 8: I'm just ripping really shit andnalergies this morning. But it's
Speaker 8: kind of like, here we go. You had a nice
Speaker 8: you had a nice piece of cake last year, and
Speaker 8: then you're swearing yourself off or.
Speaker 1: Cake forever because it's with you and what's going.
Speaker 8: On with It's easy, it's easy. It's an easy reference.
Speaker 8: But you know what I mean. It's like, sure, Epoch
Speaker 8: is good and it would be nice if this was
Speaker 8: upscaled and official, but like I can't not just play
Speaker 8: Wow ever again because Epoch was my honey from summer's past.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, yeah, that's fair, and.
Speaker 8: Yeah, like I think it could be offset by the
Speaker 8: capacity that an official launch would have, like ye in
Speaker 8: my mind anyway, like the production of it and what
Speaker 8: they would be able to crank out and the quality
Speaker 8: of it would offset at least the bot crisis a
Speaker 8: little bit. But I mean, it feels horrible to say that,
Speaker 8: Like I wish there wouldn't be bots. This has been
Speaker 8: so fun. It's fun that I'm fucking poor, and I
Speaker 8: know that most other people are too, and fel cloth
Speaker 8: costs for fucking gold right now, and a maybe killing
Speaker 8: mobs to try and farm it. Knowing that at least
Speaker 8: this feels like honest work right now and there's not
Speaker 8: just I'm not versing some guy that's swiped five hundred
Speaker 8: gold this morning. So it would be nice if it existed.
Speaker 8: I'm just kind of skeptical of the reality. Of it,
Speaker 8: because at the end of the day, Epoch are banning
Speaker 8: free accounts Blizzard of canceling subs, fraudulent credit card abuse
Speaker 8: or otherwise them banning accounts cost them money, and I
Speaker 8: don't personally believe they always give that reason that, oh,
Speaker 8: if we ban accounts, we weren't actually getting money from
Speaker 8: them anyway, because you know, it was a scam either
Speaker 8: they use the credit card scam or some shit, and
Speaker 8: they don't make money off it. I think that's a
Speaker 8: load of fucking blowney. And they make millions of dollars
Speaker 8: a year knowingly that there's a bunch of fucking bots
Speaker 8: that pay for their sub well, not only that.
Speaker 18: They would have to pay people to go after the bots. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 18: so they'd be paying money to take money away.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's what I mean. And that's where it's kind
Speaker 8: of sad to know that that's just the reality of it,
Speaker 8: and they're probably not going to budge on it. But yeah,
Speaker 8: I still would play They're shitty, bot riddled but good
Speaker 8: classic plus.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean every other iteration of like Blizzard servers
Speaker 10: had bots, that hasn't keep kept me from playing them.
Speaker 5: Like it sucks, Yeah, it sucks, Like they fuck up
Speaker 5: the economy.
Speaker 10: But but still like I played Rath, I had fun,
Speaker 10: I played TBC had fun, I played twenty nineteen Classic,
Speaker 10: I had fun. And there's gonna be but I'm sorry
Speaker 10: to say, but there's gonna be bots in a Classic Plus.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And and you're right, there's no right
Speaker 1: or wrong answer here. I'm genuinely just feeling out people's
Speaker 1: thoughts and feelings.
Speaker 2: Well, I think I.
Speaker 14: Might be a somewhat interesting test case in that I've
Speaker 14: absolutely played every single iteration, but how much I've played
Speaker 14: each iteration has varied. I think like if a Classic
Speaker 14: Plus were to come out, all one hundred percent try it.
Speaker 14: But the question isn't like will I sub Initially it's
Speaker 14: will they get me for a month?
Speaker 8: Will they get me for three months?
Speaker 2: Will they get me for a year.
Speaker 14: They haven't gotten me for a year yet, you know,
Speaker 14: they've me for maybe six months, maybe around Wrath, just
Speaker 14: because at that point the bots kind of didn't matter
Speaker 14: at as much at that point because you know the
Speaker 14: damage was done. And I just think, you know, it's
Speaker 14: a question of you know, most of these things, realistically
Speaker 14: they're relying on on on whales, right, like it's one
Speaker 14: of those things that follows like that twenty eighty rule, right,
Speaker 14: where like twenty percent are going to spend eighty percent
Speaker 14: on you know, on their cash.
Speaker 2: Oops or whatever.
Speaker 14: But is it possible that they can expand their user
Speaker 14: base enough that it's worth cracking down on the short
Speaker 14: term gains that happens when you have all these bots,
Speaker 14: so that they have somebody like me not on sub
Speaker 14: after the two or three month point, which is you know,
Speaker 14: generally what's happened with me at least, or maybe I'll
Speaker 14: come back a little bit and then on sub again.
Speaker 14: But you know, you mentioned, Josh, I believe a previous
Speaker 14: episode that you had been subbed the entire time up
Speaker 14: until just depawk now.
Speaker 18: Yeah, Like that's just not my experience at all personally, Right.
Speaker 14: I've very much been the three months now, I'm done now,
Speaker 14: And so it's I don't know how many people there
Speaker 14: are like me that come for three months go oh right,
Speaker 14: this is why I'm not doing this, and then unsub
Speaker 14: and if they're if it's possible to get people like
Speaker 14: me to go like no, I want to do this
Speaker 14: for years continuously. Yeah, I don't know if that math
Speaker 14: works out for them, But that would be that would
Speaker 14: be the hope, right, that there would be.
Speaker 4: Enough players that while they get addicted, they're not so
Speaker 4: addicted that they don't have enough self respect to go
Speaker 4: like now I'm going to do something else all my time,
Speaker 4: and that they make a product so good that you know,
Speaker 4: people go, you know, actually, this is a good.
Speaker 14: Use of my time, and I'm going to keep doing
Speaker 14: this at nauseum.
Speaker 10: Have you guys watched the YouTube video on how wow
Speaker 10: bots actually.
Speaker 5: Work and how they do it?
Speaker 8: No, I've seen some videos about.
Speaker 10: It, yeah, because yes, Basically, like there's this guy from
Speaker 10: Sweden who was running six bots on a EU server
Speaker 10: I think, and he basically explained how these big bots
Speaker 10: companies do it with their software. And basically when Blizzard,
Speaker 10: when Blizzard Software finds a specific bot and bands, then
Speaker 10: they ban all of those bots.
Speaker 5: But then.
Speaker 10: This big corporation just makes another software, like a different one,
Speaker 10: puts that out in the game, so they basically never
Speaker 10: get rid of all the bots.
Speaker 5: They just replace the software.
Speaker 6: Yeah, stress every time they do a bundle with that
Speaker 6: just and they just come back because they they're not
Speaker 6: tying like a credit card in the name of the
Speaker 6: owner of the bot and that networks all the desert
Speaker 6: can like just ban that credit card or the pietres right,
Speaker 6: it's all just VP to ship and the USON prepared
Speaker 6: or whatever it for game time. So it's that's theress.
Speaker 8: So I understand the whole arms race detection software versus
Speaker 8: each other bullshit, which I personally think is a load
Speaker 8: of fucking bologna again, because I don't. It's just frustrating.
Speaker 8: Where if it's a very good bot and it is
Speaker 8: very hard to detect fair play, but when I see
Speaker 8: the same fucking hunter in Selthus for nine fucking months
Speaker 8: walking through fucking walls, that's not a detection fucking problem.
Speaker 8: That's just to get some fucking human eyeballs on your
Speaker 8: server and your game and your product, and go, gee whiz,
Speaker 8: this rogue has been walking underneath the fucking zone for
Speaker 8: six months. Maybe he should get banned. Like that's that.
Speaker 6: I had one of these and fellow with on like
Speaker 6: at that server right, like we were the only alliance
Speaker 6: killed rating on the server, and that was hurting and
Speaker 6: fellow with and there's this or bolt running up and
Speaker 6: done against me, and I reported him, I think a
Speaker 6: week or two later, I got an in game medal.
Speaker 6: Thanks for the report. But then two weeks later the
Speaker 6: bot was back there, like the same one with the
Speaker 6: same name. Like it's it's so fucked it's it's insane.
Speaker 8: I just it's I mean, I'm just being silly, But
Speaker 8: I couldn't imagine working at Blizzard and it's like Friday
Speaker 8: knockoff and you go, you know what, lads, I'll bring
Speaker 8: a six pack and let's all just fly around and
Speaker 8: band comes for an hour while we have tinnys. Like
Speaker 8: I can't imagine that, not like it would almost be fun.
Speaker 8: Imagine being a dev going, yeah, let's take the band
Speaker 8: hammer out of its glass case and just go for
Speaker 8: a peruse and fly around. And I just don't understand
Speaker 8: why that's not just a more common thing. It's like,
Speaker 8: I don't know if they've overcorped themselves where it's like
Speaker 8: out of their jurisdiction as a dev developer to even
Speaker 8: be allowed to do that crap. But I just, for
Speaker 8: the life of me, I don't know how it's not
Speaker 8: even tempting for to say, like Tim, to be like, oh,
Speaker 8: this would be funny, let's just go on a purge.
Speaker 1: Thanks for the timorright man, thanks Arcos, appreciate it. Boys.
Speaker 1: We'll take a turn here, We'll try and thank you
Speaker 1: so much for what has been a good, sort of
Speaker 1: heavy part of the podcast. Well might take a turn
Speaker 1: back towards the light now, Yubi, while I've got your
Speaker 1: mate you missed. Lazarus did a great job trying to
Speaker 1: do the retelling of your fabled Strathholme run last night.
Speaker 1: Sorry two nights ago, I should say you wouldn't have
Speaker 1: heard it. But is there anything that you feel like
Speaker 1: real quick? Don't retell the whole thing, but anything that
Speaker 1: must be said that you want to chime in for
Speaker 1: your two cents on it? Where where we're leaving name
Speaker 1: out of it.
Speaker 8: By the way, I'm still trying to process the trauma
Speaker 8: and don't wish to elaborate on the events at this time.
Speaker 1: How damn it? How damaged were you? Tell us some
Speaker 1: of the things you were saying in discord, Arcos said
Speaker 1: you were fucking hilarious.
Speaker 8: Oh, warriors got bashed. I might have generalized that their
Speaker 8: entire class are brain dead and this is just what
Speaker 8: they fucking are like, and curse the entire class out,
Speaker 8: and then Holy Pally's copped it there on the band list,
Speaker 8: try and DM me and tell me you'll heal me
Speaker 8: my run to prove me wrong.
Speaker 1: No, no, I'm gonna heal you in the dead minds
Speaker 1: this weekend and prove you wrong.
Speaker 8: Well, no you can, yeah, I just Holy Pally's in
Speaker 8: the bin or in the gulag gone DPS warriors. Turns
Speaker 8: out that they're hunters and warriors all still brain dead.
Speaker 8: But yeah, that's why I was late this morning. I'd
Speaker 8: put myself in a self induced coma to get over
Speaker 8: what happened.
Speaker 1: Mates the look, I mean to be fair, I said
Speaker 1: to Lazarus, like, I don't know necessarily that this guy
Speaker 1: should bring down the whole class with him, Like your
Speaker 1: heeler just literally wasn't pressing his buttons versus it being
Speaker 1: a Holy Paladine issue.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, I'm being silly, Holy pals in the bin.
Speaker 1: In the bin, all right, all right, it's.
Speaker 2: The other one.
Speaker 5: Prove me wrong, prove you wrong.
Speaker 1: Good, No, old level one you well you've got a
Speaker 1: warrior old now you're you've been intrigued by warrior tanking
Speaker 1: this whole time. So are you going to go through
Speaker 1: with it or what?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 8: Yeah, I intend to level him up. I'm just farming.
Speaker 8: I want to farm one hundred gold on my age.
Speaker 8: I can give him dual spec so that I can
Speaker 8: like do the leveling experience properly and switch to prop
Speaker 8: for dungeons and stuff, because I do want to try it.
Speaker 8: I've had I it is the Yeah, I had a
Speaker 8: warrior tank in a scollar a week ago and I
Speaker 8: still think about him twice a day. He was that
Speaker 8: fucking fantastic and all the rest of them have been dogshit.
Speaker 8: So like, I don't know if he's just the best
Speaker 8: warrior on the server or not, but that was a
Speaker 8: dreamy run and I'm just wondering why the rest can't
Speaker 8: do it or what. So I need to go find
Speaker 8: out for myself.
Speaker 1: All right, is there, guys? Should we Does anyone have
Speaker 1: stories for Do we have enough stories for a Kangaroo court?
Speaker 1: Has anyone been filing down things against their guilties? Just
Speaker 1: a show of hands, who's got a kangaroo court story?
Speaker 1: Yell out? If you do, no one, you're killing me, Well.
Speaker 5: It would be it would be you be taunting other players.
Speaker 1: Discover I want to I want to hear about that.
Speaker 10: No, no, no, But it's the same thing as that story, right, Yeah,
Speaker 10: so he didn't he didn't attract them personally over discord.
Speaker 1: I'll just h ill, I'll tell sorry, I've just muted
Speaker 1: Sip and that's all right. He's just playing with his kids.
Speaker 1: I'll tell a story about myself and we'll see if
Speaker 1: while I'm telling this story, you guys remember anything about
Speaker 1: anyone else. So once again, I'll nominate myself for Kangaroo
Speaker 1: Court and just say I was a bufhead where we
Speaker 1: had an lb RS run my first one, and you know,
Speaker 1: we did pretty well. Everything was going relatively swimmingly and
Speaker 1: we got to we cleared the whole dungeon we'd heard
Speaker 1: that you know, uh, the last boss was quite tricky.
Speaker 1: We wiped once, figured out what he did, and then
Speaker 1: killed it the second time. It's a really fun fight. Again, like, guys,
Speaker 1: the the fights that are quote unquote working are really fun.
Speaker 1: And to be fair, as a continuation of last week's story,
Speaker 1: you know, Laz told me that we talked about the
Speaker 1: bug with the salamander boss in BRD and it does
Speaker 1: need to be fixed. But Laz went back and killed
Speaker 1: it with a different group composition, so like it's it's
Speaker 1: not working as intended. I wish they would fucking fix it.
Speaker 1: It's silly, but it's not unkillable, Laz. That's right, you
Speaker 1: downed it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just we just went in it. We had
Speaker 2: two physical dps just stay on the boss, ignore the ads, uh,
Speaker 2: and just had a second heel this. You know, the
Speaker 2: off field, you know, the person who couldn't do damage,
Speaker 2: just off yield, and he was relatively easier with that strategy. Okay,
Speaker 2: so it shouldn't Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, you shouldn't have You shouldn't need to have a
Speaker 1: particular group comp to down a dungeon boss. Completely agree.
Speaker 1: Now we power through, we kill the last boss, and
Speaker 1: then we go, hey, guys, do you want to do
Speaker 1: the optional ogre boss that you summoned with the pike
Speaker 1: in the head. And Dayron goes, yeah, fuck yeah, let's
Speaker 1: do this. We heard it's pretty hard. You sure you
Speaker 1: want to do it?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, fuck yeah, we're gamers, let's do this. So we
Speaker 1: do the encounter and we we get through the waves
Speaker 1: and we actually do see the last boss come, but
Speaker 1: where we're incredibly um, we're low health. We were really
Speaker 1: struggling and we wiped. I think we got like it
Speaker 1: was the last boss and like two other mobs were
Speaker 1: still there and they just ground us down. So we wipe,
Speaker 1: but we had an NK or something, and the last boss, sorry,
Speaker 1: the last boss, the ogre boss, did not despawn, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, oh my god, it hasn't sworned, okay,
Speaker 1: And I literally say to the guys like, guys, go go, go,
Speaker 1: go go. Let's res get up to health, get up
Speaker 1: your manner. As soon as fucking possible, this thing will despawn.
Speaker 1: Let's go go, go, go go. We have to fucking
Speaker 1: do this because we can kill him on his own.
Speaker 1: So the ank goes up slowly, but surely, we start
Speaker 1: raising other people. We sit down to eat, and I'm like, okay, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: we got to do this. We got to do this.
Speaker 1: Were it full health, but like, well we're like seventy
Speaker 1: five percent health, seventy five percent manner, and we were
Speaker 1: all kind of like, you know, oh, I guess we
Speaker 1: just wait till we get to a hundred. And I'm
Speaker 1: sitting there staring at my corruption button, going I should
Speaker 1: just fucking pull it. I should just fucking pull it.
Speaker 1: This guy's going to be sworn. I should just fucking
Speaker 1: pull it. And I didn't press the button. And I
Speaker 1: think we were all having the same sort of feeling,
Speaker 1: getting a bit itchy but trying to be responsible and
Speaker 1: just waiting. And as we were at like eighty eighty
Speaker 1: five percent health and manner, the boss de spawns in
Speaker 1: front of our eyes.
Speaker 8: Yeah, we were all at one.
Speaker 2: It was even worse than that. We just got to
Speaker 2: one hundred. I took one step forward to go to pool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then spawn. Yeah.
Speaker 14: As a husband, there had been a solid like two
Speaker 14: to three seconds of us all at one hundred percent
Speaker 14: health and manner, right, and that's what made it all
Speaker 14: the worse.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And and I I was I was lying behind
Speaker 2: because I remember I was waiting. As soon as I
Speaker 2: hit one hundred, I was going to go forward. So
Speaker 2: I was the last one. Didn't have thought matter.
Speaker 1: I screamed and cursed in a very loud fashion as
Speaker 1: I watched this, this boss, you know, avengers dissipate in
Speaker 1: front of our eyes, and I just got fuck, fuck,
Speaker 1: you're fucking kidding me, fuck off, Oh my god, what
Speaker 1: the fuck? And I got fucking I didn't get toxic,
Speaker 1: but I unleashed very loudly and very crudely, not directed
Speaker 1: at anyone. I was angry at myself more than anything
Speaker 1: for not just fucking starting the encounter, and they got
Speaker 1: very quiet in the room, and I then eventually apologized
Speaker 1: to all the boys and said, I'm sorry I went
Speaker 1: so nuts, but like I am a fucking loot whole.
Speaker 1: And even though I don't even think you would assigned
Speaker 1: that that boss would drop cast loot, I just hate
Speaker 1: people missing out on loot opportunities because I know, like
Speaker 1: loot is relatively easy to come by, but I'm like,
Speaker 1: you should never miss the chance for luke. And so
Speaker 1: I went fucking ballistic, and the guys did the move
Speaker 1: where like you know, everyone freezes, like Mummy and Daddy
Speaker 1: are screaming at each other at the dinner table and yeah,
Speaker 1: lads or Axle might throw it over to you. Was
Speaker 1: there was I a bit unhinged in that moment?
Speaker 2: You were mad? Definitely? I was whe everyone got quiet.
Speaker 2: Clear to me, I was like, uh oh, like, don't
Speaker 2: be the first person to get yelled at, like whoever,
Speaker 2: Like like if we everyone speaks right now, they're gonna
Speaker 2: get the they're gonna get yelled at.
Speaker 1: Just you know, no, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: yelled at anyone like I said. I didn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: say any names or highlight anyone. I was mad or
Speaker 1: in the hole, and I was mad at myself.
Speaker 14: You weren't to the well within normal limits, but I
Speaker 14: was laughing my ass off.
Speaker 2: Personally, I was I felt bad. I was like, I
Speaker 2: feel like we all felt the same, Like we all
Speaker 2: had that feeling should we try this poll now? And
Speaker 2: now we had a couple seconds get bad, Like I
Speaker 2: felt terrible.
Speaker 1: You know, it was It's just one of those things.
Speaker 1: It was just one of those things. Yeah, we were
Speaker 1: all upset. Fucking I am just I am a really
Speaker 1: unapologetic lout whole, Like I loot pixels mean a lot
Speaker 1: to me. Blue and purple pixels mean a lot to me.
Speaker 1: And I know it's not why most people played the game.
Speaker 1: They just play for the hang I play for the pixels.
Speaker 1: I'm a fucking weirdo. I'm a really big believer in
Speaker 1: character progression, and I play the game to make my
Speaker 1: character more powerful and and any missed opportunity, I'm like, fuck.
Speaker 1: But anyway, that's just me. So that's I'm kangaroo recording
Speaker 1: myself and sending myself to the gulag for that one,
Speaker 1: for for losing my fucking minds temporarily and saying a
Speaker 1: lot of fucks.
Speaker 5: I would actually give you a pass on that one. Oh,
Speaker 5: how come, well, I would, I would fair enough.
Speaker 14: If anything, I would have blamed.
Speaker 1: Las fucking lads. It's always the tank. It's always the tank,
Speaker 1: the tank, the benefits. Oh good. And now as anyone else,
Speaker 1: you don't have to Has anyone else got a fun
Speaker 1: kangaroo court story where they can throw themselves or someone
Speaker 1: else in the guild under the bus?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 1: Nothing. It's been a quiet week, fucking ridiculous, ubiquitous. No
Speaker 1: one's got anything mean to say about anyone.
Speaker 8: I feel like there were some things I just keep
Speaker 8: going blank every time.
Speaker 1: This is why you got to write it down.
Speaker 8: That's all right, that's we need, we need, we need
Speaker 8: a kangaroo court channel.
Speaker 1: Is Oh, that's actually a good idea. That's a good idea.
Speaker 1: I should create a kangaroo court channel and then we
Speaker 1: won't ever forget uh very good. Well, look guys, let
Speaker 1: me see here. Where are we We're two hours and
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes in. Is there anything that you guys feel
Speaker 1: that we have to address for this edition of the podcast.
Speaker 1: Anything that has come up this week in relation to Epoch,
Speaker 1: whether it be bug related that like people need to
Speaker 1: hear a PSA about, or fun things you've noticed about
Speaker 1: certain classes. Hit me anything free for all right now, all.
Speaker 10: Yes, yes, I have something done. I just actually I
Speaker 10: actually just encountered it. Or if you're in Desilus and
Speaker 10: you're at the thunder Axe Fortress, there is a type
Speaker 10: of mob there that can give you a curse. That's
Speaker 10: called curse of thorns, so it is like regular thorns.
Speaker 10: If you hit the mob, there's a fifty percent chund,
Speaker 10: so you'll do damage to yourself. If you do damage
Speaker 10: to yourself, you'll get.
Speaker 5: Flagged for PvP. Nice because you're hitting yourself.
Speaker 1: Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself.
Speaker 5: Exactly, Stanway, So that's a good fya.
Speaker 1: I will say, I think I forgot to finish off
Speaker 1: my sort of story about Syllathus without being spoilery ubi.
Speaker 1: Did you go to Syllicus.
Speaker 8: Yes, much to my own bamboosomen Yeah, And.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, so, I haven't said anything
Speaker 1: about what happens there. All I've said is this is
Speaker 1: not your granddaddy Syllicus anymore. How surprised with you? Were you?
Speaker 1: And do you give it a thumbs up or thumbs down?
Speaker 8: I only went there because I got told that's where
Speaker 8: you learn the Mage water, right, the level fifty five
Speaker 8: Mage water. So my autopilot took me to where you
Speaker 8: always go on Syllaicus and the drift that you sent of.
Speaker 1: Looking around, going yeah, the travolta looking around.
Speaker 8: Genuinely, I was doing that in game and in person,
Speaker 8: just like hah, because I was just full autopilot, like
Speaker 8: auto run, olt tabbed and then I'm like, I should
Speaker 8: be where I think I am by now, and then
Speaker 8: I alt tabbed back in and I was like, what
Speaker 8: the fuck? And then I just went back to the
Speaker 8: start of the zone and found my way. Uh. It
Speaker 8: turns out that was a that was a bit of
Speaker 8: a fuck around for me. The major water quest tells
Speaker 8: you to do barret and hold to find someone to
Speaker 8: teach you how to make the water. So I just
Speaker 8: read the quest text all right, went and did a
Speaker 8: barreton hold with voodoo, didn't see anything obvious, ran around
Speaker 8: the instance for half an hour. Afterwards, started whispering other majors,
Speaker 8: and then they said check your bags. You never had
Speaker 8: to do Barret and hold the quest is bugged, so
Speaker 8: they just give you the book as soon as you
Speaker 8: accept the quest, right, So I went on two hour
Speaker 8: adventure for nothing. But yeah, in regards to Scyllathus, it
Speaker 8: was very confusing. But I didn't do any quests. I
Speaker 8: don't even know. I don't even know what's going on
Speaker 8: down there.
Speaker 1: Like I'm sorry, Oh wow, you have to go and
Speaker 1: see it.
Speaker 5: You have to.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, give it a look later than I because
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you whether or not you've
Speaker 1: got some sod flashbacks, but you won't know.
Speaker 8: No, I've done nothing in the zone other than run
Speaker 8: into it. Get confused.
Speaker 1: Oh I did. I did all the quests, and it's
Speaker 1: it's a thing. It's like it's an experience. I I
Speaker 1: liked it, but I also questioned it. It's too hard
Speaker 1: to explain without spoilers. So all I would encourage is
Speaker 1: for people to maybe do it this week. If you're
Speaker 1: if you're in your if you're over fifty eight, or
Speaker 1: if you're sixty, just do old Josha favor and take
Speaker 1: a little detour down to Syllicus and do the It
Speaker 1: doesn't take super duper long, just do the few quests
Speaker 1: that are down there now and see what you reckon.
Speaker 18: So on the park web site they describe it as
Speaker 18: like an elite zone or something like that. Is it
Speaker 18: something that you have to do with somebody else or
Speaker 18: can you do it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So all I'll say, all I'll say is that
Speaker 1: all the og Sylthus quests are no more, right, That's
Speaker 1: all I'll say. And you do different quests now and
Speaker 1: every mob in Syltha's, every mob is elite, so make
Speaker 1: of that what you will. Obviously you might be thinking
Speaker 1: maybe I don't want to go there solo. You can
Speaker 1: still go their solo, but you will not be doing
Speaker 1: the content solo.
Speaker 18: So you should plan for group content.
Speaker 1: Yes it is group content, but you don't feel the
Speaker 1: need because like groups are forming in the zone. Don't
Speaker 1: feel the need to take a pre you know, organized
Speaker 1: group with you, but like it helps if you do.
Speaker 1: But you know you'll find someone as a solo player
Speaker 1: as well. And that's all I say. That's all I say.
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll talk about it next week or the week
Speaker 1: after where you know, it's it's very interesting. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm.
Speaker 2: Very part on this over but self, this was a mess,
Speaker 2: just conceptually the zone. I don't want to spoil it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just from a big pictures downpoint, it's a mess.
Speaker 1: A little bit of sod PTSD, like I said, And
Speaker 1: people can take that, can guess to what that means.
Speaker 1: But yeah, anyway, anyone else on anything they've seen let
Speaker 1: me think about Yeah, please go nuts.
Speaker 2: So I thought someone I said was interesting earlier. He said,
Speaker 2: you know they're they're making like dungeon content, you know,
Speaker 2: stuff that's not for him. I thought it was an
Speaker 2: interesting topic, you know, because developer time is is limited
Speaker 2: and there'sn't it. You know, there's a cost benefit do
Speaker 2: you make do you revamp old dungeons or to use
Speaker 2: that time to make new content, And it's sort of
Speaker 2: a zero sum game, you know, the more you spend
Speaker 2: on revamping lifetime for new stuff. And I thought that
Speaker 2: even though I like that they what they did with
Speaker 2: the Bling caverns is great and the new deadmine is great,
Speaker 2: I still liked I actually, yeah, I like. I love
Speaker 2: the old deadmines and I like the old Bhiling caverns.
Speaker 2: There's nothing even I like what they did with it.
Speaker 2: There was no need. I thought it was a waste
Speaker 2: I would love to see more new content like toll
Speaker 2: Broad and new and more new dungeons because I you know,
Speaker 2: I like the old ones. And on a negative note,
Speaker 2: if they're going to revamp them, you know they they've
Speaker 2: gone through the high of dungeons and revamp the not
Speaker 2: the assets, but they've run the boss mechanics, which is great.
Speaker 2: But to me, they left the biggest hole and Mardon
Speaker 2: for example. Uh, even though I liked the last boss,
Speaker 2: but there's no exit. It's you have to like heart
Speaker 2: out and I think that's a terrible design. I was
Speaker 2: really disappointed with mar I thought they were gonna, if
Speaker 2: they're gonna touch it, they would add an exit with
Speaker 2: dead minds, and I don't know why they didn't. You know,
Speaker 2: little things like that. Uh, I'd rather see that rather
Speaker 2: than revamping as good as a community. They did a
Speaker 2: good job with dead mines and plank caverns, no no doubt,
Speaker 2: but I would rather see that time go to new
Speaker 2: content or if you know, little little things that are
Speaker 2: easy to fix, like putting an exit marit so you
Speaker 2: don't have to like heart and if your heart's on
Speaker 2: cool down, you sit there, you exit the game.
Speaker 1: Did we do the Barreton Hold review last week on
Speaker 1: the show or not?
Speaker 2: I think so.
Speaker 8: I mentioned it a couple of times, but you have
Speaker 8: you have.
Speaker 1: You done it a few more times since then.
Speaker 8: I've done it twice total.
Speaker 1: I think you said you gave it the thumbs up.
Speaker 1: You're quite happy with it.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it just it looks really really cool, Like the
Speaker 8: asset usage is a step up, like it's it is
Speaker 8: just a it's it's a catterfied deadminds, says stock Aide. Sorry,
Speaker 8: like it looks nice and new and shiny compared to
Speaker 8: what Stockades looks like. But it's the same vibe in it.
Speaker 8: Obviously it's prison. But I thought the boss fight's were
Speaker 8: really cool. One of them's a couple of them are
Speaker 8: pretty hard, but the rest of you straightforward. But I
Speaker 8: like the theme of it. I think they did a
Speaker 8: good job of how to make a prison dungeon fun
Speaker 8: and all the different little chambers of it and all
Speaker 8: that crap.
Speaker 19: I'm kind of kind of on board with, you know,
Speaker 19: keeping things kind of the way they were. If they
Speaker 19: were going to make or revamp something, maybe they should
Speaker 19: have done something more in games stylish, you know what
Speaker 19: I mean, Like if you're going to redo deadminds about
Speaker 19: have a heroic version that's redone, you know, something a
Speaker 19: little different there instead of getting rid of the completely
Speaker 19: getting rid of the norm. I mean, the fights are fun,
Speaker 19: you know, the mechanics are great, but I think they
Speaker 19: kind of should have just been left alone a little.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of a smell of dead binks, just
Speaker 2: that a nostalgic Yeah, exactly. I want to go back
Speaker 2: there and I can't know.
Speaker 19: Yeah, And that's that's that's what would have been fun
Speaker 19: with the whole. You know, if you're going to redo something,
Speaker 19: let's let's give it a different aspect, you know, let's
Speaker 19: do use it for something else. Speak of all broad
Speaker 19: I think it's great.
Speaker 2: I agree with you. The boss fights are really fun.
Speaker 2: Good mechanics, not like too much, but enough to make
Speaker 2: them interesting. Well, especially the last on is hard some
Speaker 2: of them, not everyone is hard. Good piecing.
Speaker 7: I really like it.
Speaker 1: Hearing you say that sort of. I was going to
Speaker 1: bring this up earlier with you know, some stuff that
Speaker 1: Vestige was saying regarding boss encounters, and like, I guess
Speaker 1: there's a difference between a boss being broken versus having
Speaker 1: your expectations of certain encounters recalibrated and just hearing a
Speaker 1: couple of things you said there about Deadmindes as well Lazarus.
Speaker 1: The epoch really has been a test, and this whole
Speaker 1: Classic plus thing really has been a test for the
Speaker 1: classic player base on We've mentioned it very briefly before,
Speaker 1: how much people actually want new stuff, And it's like,
Speaker 1: when you say you want new stuff, what do you
Speaker 1: mean by that? Which seems like such an odd thing
Speaker 1: to say, but one of the I don't share this
Speaker 1: trait with the classic community generally, where one of the
Speaker 1: biggest things that classic community revers or coverts is their
Speaker 1: knowledge of the game and their ability to use that
Speaker 1: knowledge to succeed at the game. And they get off
Speaker 1: on I've played this game so much. I know exactly
Speaker 1: when and where I'm supposed to do things. I know
Speaker 1: how things are supposed to go, and I can perform
Speaker 1: well because of that knowledge. And the second that core
Speaker 1: foundation of knowledge is shaken, generally the attitude shift a
Speaker 1: little bit into terms of you start to hear more
Speaker 1: negative comments come out of people like I don't know
Speaker 1: if I like this. I'm not so sure about this.
Speaker 7: I don't know.
Speaker 1: You know, when you say things like I just want
Speaker 1: my old Deadlindes. And you know, people say I should
Speaker 1: be able to do this boss at this level. This
Speaker 1: is ridiculous when you have a sort of a yeah,
Speaker 1: sorry God for yeah, I know what.
Speaker 2: You're trying to I don't your questions I missed. I'm
Speaker 2: talking about the art assets, the way it looks, the
Speaker 2: updated fights, the new mechanics are super fun, and I
Speaker 2: don't mind that at all, especially smite amazing. I don't
Speaker 2: mind them mixing up the abilities or the possiblays or
Speaker 2: the tuning or what I mean when I missed nostalgia
Speaker 2: of how it looks and like the So I I'm
Speaker 2: not saying that the new one's bad, It's just I
Speaker 2: would if you're going to spend time, I'd rather, you know,
Speaker 2: two or three more tall broads than messing with the
Speaker 2: art assets.
Speaker 1: Of the fair enough fair enough, I guess, Or if you're.
Speaker 2: Going to change one, maybe change like but like Chunk
Speaker 2: and Temple could probably do.
Speaker 1: A redo, you know, fair enough, I guess. My question
Speaker 1: still remains, though, like, not not so much lumping you
Speaker 1: in with this this sort of crowd Lazarus, but just
Speaker 1: sort of saying, you know, queerying to what degree people.
Speaker 1: You know, we sit here and we say classic plus,
Speaker 1: Classic plus, give us Classic plus. But I really think
Speaker 1: that if Blizzard does deliver, you know, even something along
Speaker 1: the lines of Epoch, where I don't think the changes
Speaker 1: are drastic by any stretch of the imagination. I think
Speaker 1: the changes are moderate. You know, the Blizzard player base,
Speaker 1: the Blizzard Classic player base that you know, the kind
Speaker 1: of players that won't venture on to a private server,
Speaker 1: could really say that they you know, they don't like this,
Speaker 1: And I think of I often think of the players ubiquitous,
Speaker 1: if you don't mind me dragging you into this rant
Speaker 1: a little bit. And I'm still I'm speaking slowly and
Speaker 1: softly because I'm still really trying to piece together the
Speaker 1: right way to say this. But I'm thinking of the
Speaker 1: players ubiquitous that we know, you know, from our travels
Speaker 1: in Countdown, friends that we've made along the way, that's
Speaker 1: still you know, don't want to play on Epoch. And
Speaker 1: it's not a crime if you don't want to play
Speaker 1: on Epoch. I totally get it. We've talked about this before.
Speaker 1: It's a private server. It's weird, you know, I get it.
Speaker 1: But we know a lot of people that we would
Speaker 1: have presumed would be like pigs and shit on this server,
Speaker 1: but they have absolutely stayed away, and a part of
Speaker 1: me wonders if it's truly because they say they want
Speaker 1: Classic Plus, but we've said this for a while now,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like, not really, they literally just want
Speaker 1: Classic and nothing to change, but maybe just one or
Speaker 1: two new raids, and if Blizzard introduces something like Epoch
Speaker 1: or even more than Epoch, I think the propensity for
Speaker 1: the community to actually weirdly backlash against that against that
Speaker 1: is high as we saw it with SOD, Like even
Speaker 1: people complained about SOD, Oh that's new, I don't like it.
Speaker 1: It's almost like, do they really want new or do
Speaker 1: they just want a fucking relaunch and a new coat
Speaker 1: of pain on what they already know and love.
Speaker 8: Yeah. I think I had one of these rants at
Speaker 8: the start of Epoch on the same vein of like,
Speaker 8: if you're looking at this, even if you're not playing it,
Speaker 8: but if you're observing it and going this is dogshit,
Speaker 8: then I'm flabberg acid as to what you thought Classic
Speaker 8: Plus would look like.
Speaker 1: But also on that point that there we've said it
Speaker 1: so many times over the last twelve months I've search
Speaker 1: for me in discord. I've said this multiple times. If
Speaker 1: people are upset by Epoch, my god, are you? I
Speaker 1: don't know what Blizzard is making, but my god, you're
Speaker 1: going to be fucking upset with whatever they do.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's not to say that one is the right
Speaker 8: choice or not, because it's just all personal preference of
Speaker 8: what you want plus to be. And that's the biggest
Speaker 8: fucking debate at the moment. But I just I don't
Speaker 8: know if someone that if there's people out there that
Speaker 8: want one point one two, but they're going to just
Speaker 8: add a couple more raids after nacks, for example, I
Speaker 8: just don't know from those people, if they're saying that
Speaker 8: and they know that that is like five percent of
Speaker 8: the audience would play that in comparison to something that
Speaker 8: is more like this that would catch Blizzard ninety of
Speaker 8: the c plus interested people. Like do they actually believe
Speaker 8: in their concept being the better, more popular choice or
Speaker 8: is it a self conceding, selfish choice? Like do they
Speaker 8: know I want a niche valley that will get fuck
Speaker 8: all players, but it's what I want. That's the point
Speaker 8: that I never really get out of them, Like, if
Speaker 8: you know what I mean. You know, you can, you
Speaker 8: can have your preference, but do you know that it's
Speaker 8: not a popular preference because in my opinion anyway, again,
Speaker 8: I think that this would absolutely stomp one point one
Speaker 8: two with a new rate after nact like this would
Speaker 8: get a million players that would get fifty K, and
Speaker 8: half of them wouldn't get the sixty.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean, and we're already seeing that with Epoch
Speaker 1: like you can sort of sit there and wonder, well,
Speaker 1: what percentage of the player base, so you know that
Speaker 1: there might be a large percentage of the player base
Speaker 1: dropping out because of the bucks, like we talked about,
Speaker 1: maybe people are sort of seeing this server and going,
Speaker 1: you know what, this is clearly an unfinished server. I'm
Speaker 1: not interested. I'm out, But I I think that we're
Speaker 1: also and I said, any any server that makes a
Speaker 1: protracted journey to level sixty, whether whether it's Vanilla like
Speaker 1: or not, if it's relatively close to Vanilla like, a
Speaker 1: significant chunk of the player base will not make it
Speaker 1: to sixty. It is just even for me, it is
Speaker 1: a long and ar like I said, I did ten days,
Speaker 1: played like something fucking ridiculous, and everyone can laugh and
Speaker 1: go Oh my god, how do you even how is
Speaker 1: it physically possible to spend fucking, you know, two hundred
Speaker 1: to two hundred and forty hours to get to fucking
Speaker 1: level sixty. Trust me, it is. You know, I do
Speaker 1: a lot of things along the way, professions and all
Speaker 1: that shit. I just did it. But I understand that
Speaker 1: most players, not most, but like a shitload of players
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, I'm getting to level thirty and stopping.
Speaker 1: I just don't have time for this shit. Because people
Speaker 1: don't have time for this shit anymore.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think this, The leveling in this is so
Speaker 8: easy compared to error, and it kind of makes me say,
Speaker 8: like if you can't, if one to sixty on Epoch
Speaker 8: was too hard for you, then I don't know, it
Speaker 8: sounds cunty, but like just an MMO just isn't for
Speaker 8: you and your lifestyle anymore, Like you need to give
Speaker 8: it up. You need to go find a different kind
Speaker 8: of game to play, because if anything, I would say
Speaker 8: it's too quick, like I would have happily slapped an
Speaker 8: extra day played time sink to get to sixty on
Speaker 8: this because they succeeded in the old myth that I
Speaker 8: laughed at when people talk about Vanilla about the journey
Speaker 8: being like so important and so fun in this I
Speaker 8: hit sixty and there was a part of me that
Speaker 8: was fucking sad that I hit sixty because I didn't
Speaker 8: get to do the rest of the things. But then
Speaker 8: I've said it in a few times on the show,
Speaker 8: it just motivates me to want to play another character already,
Speaker 8: So like that's why I'm leveling the Warrior and now
Speaker 8: old go to zones that I didn't get to do
Speaker 8: to see what was going on there. But yeah, I
Speaker 8: just think it's still leaning on that. Do you even
Speaker 8: want Classic Plus? Do you even like the idea of
Speaker 8: Classic Plus? Truly? If you don't like this leveling, then
Speaker 8: like fuck me, just play Battlefield with me next month,
Speaker 8: where you just open the game, jump in a server,
Speaker 8: you play, and then you fucking close it and that's it.
Speaker 8: Like there's no commitment. That's that's the game that you
Speaker 8: need now. If you if you if this is too
Speaker 8: much of a burden for you with how easy Epoch is,
Speaker 8: then I just don't know what warcraft you're even looking
Speaker 8: for at this point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I've been really I've been really down on
Speaker 1: the one to sixty journey over the last couple of years.
Speaker 1: I've said multiple times on the show. People know, I'm
Speaker 1: like I said, never again. I'm never doing Vanilla one
Speaker 1: to sixty again. It is like pulling teeth. I can't
Speaker 1: fucking do it. It's it's you know, oh, it's all
Speaker 1: about the journey. Fuck your journey. I've done it ten
Speaker 1: times and I'm fucking over it. Epoch is not the
Speaker 1: Vanilla Journey now. I know it's relatively close, but people
Speaker 1: might be fair to ask, you know, Josh, why did
Speaker 1: you have tolerance for Epoch when it's still it still
Speaker 1: took you Slash ten days played. What's the fucking difference?
Speaker 1: The time investment is literally the same. But it's how
Speaker 1: I felt along the way, and like everything about this
Speaker 1: leveling journey felt right, it felt like and that really
Speaker 1: resonates with me.
Speaker 8: Me.
Speaker 1: Sorry, that really resonates with me. When you say you're
Speaker 1: almost a little bit disappointed that it was over, I
Speaker 1: felt the same way, because I'm now kind of like, oh,
Speaker 1: I really do get the sensation that that one to
Speaker 1: sixty journey kind of was the game. And yeah, of
Speaker 1: course there's a lot of stuff to do at endgame,
Speaker 1: but like that was the game. That leveling with the boys,
Speaker 1: that progressing your character and getting talent points along the way,
Speaker 1: seeing all the new shit from zone to zone that
Speaker 1: you only gets to be new in your eyes and
Speaker 1: your mind once. I'm so glad I did it because
Speaker 1: I had so much fun along the way, But I
Speaker 1: am sad now I get to see a few things
Speaker 1: I missed via an olts. That's great. I'll go and
Speaker 1: do more of Burning Steps. I'll go and do fucking
Speaker 1: fell Wood and shit that I skipped. But like the
Speaker 1: journey was the experience. And even though I don't feel
Speaker 1: that way about Vanilla anymore, I feel that way about Epoch,
Speaker 1: and hopefully I will feel that way about whatever Blizzard
Speaker 1: releases next because they need to. And I didn't get
Speaker 1: this feeling through SOD at all. That the one to
Speaker 1: sixty journey was so fucking oh my god, what an experience.
Speaker 1: I'll never forget that. I don't feel that way about
Speaker 1: about SOD. SOD was fantastic, the gameplay was impeccable, but
Speaker 1: the leveling journey wasn't like me revering it, No, not
Speaker 1: at all. No, but this one they need to replicate.
Speaker 1: This feeling wouldn't you say.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and I think it's kind of what the reason
Speaker 8: why it works so well is that, like I'm sitting
Speaker 8: here thinking about what are the differences, and it's like
Speaker 8: you've got the extra quest obviously, and there's new things
Speaker 8: to find, and that's kind of like the bells and
Speaker 8: the whistles that are and the lights that really make
Speaker 8: you observe the differences of the journey. But I think
Speaker 8: a lot of it is like subconsciously the fact that
Speaker 8: you are leveling slightly quicker because there's less XP required
Speaker 8: per level. If I'm not mistaken, there's the increased efficiency
Speaker 8: of there being more quests and stuff that you don't
Speaker 8: directly observe, but your routing is smooth. You feel like
Speaker 8: you have options as well. That's always nice to pick
Speaker 8: between zones and go and find things. The additional recid
Speaker 8: XP when you log off for the night and come back.
Speaker 8: All the things adding together made it so much smoother
Speaker 8: and therefore enjoyable. But you're not there like yelling and
Speaker 8: screaming about how good those things are while you're in it.
Speaker 8: It's only when you, like, you know, not actually feeling
Speaker 8: how smooth the car ride is while you're in it.
Speaker 8: But you got to the end and you go, fuck,
Speaker 8: that was a nice drive, weather was good, roads were empty,
Speaker 8: car ran well, and you only kind of get to
Speaker 8: the end and realize all these things added up. At
Speaker 8: least that's how it was for me. It's and it's
Speaker 8: and I didn't know half of it at the start either,
Speaker 8: Like I didn't. It took me like twenty levels to go. Fuck,
Speaker 8: I'm getting five bars arrested every day when I log off,
Speaker 8: and then I go to work and then I come home,
Speaker 8: and it's like that shit adds up, you know what
Speaker 8: I mean? When you're leveling, when you play every day
Speaker 8: and your level fifty four, five bars arrested feels so
Speaker 8: fucking nice.
Speaker 1: I think I just want to shout out. So sorry,
Speaker 1: someone was going to say something there, go for it.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I was just I was just gonna say, like,
Speaker 10: it sounds like you guys need to activate to a
Speaker 10: Explorers contract or the Adventure contract.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, god never never, yub I think we've achieved
Speaker 1: peak private server player in the Twitch chat. So I
Speaker 1: don't normally do this, but we'll fucking shout it out
Speaker 1: when it needs shouting out. So we got someone who
Speaker 1: reckons every boss in toll Barrad dies in fifteen seconds
Speaker 1: except the last posts. Do you agree or disagree?
Speaker 8: I haven't done toll Barrad yet, said you did it.
Speaker 1: A couple of times. No, that's batter and that's bad
Speaker 1: than hold yeah same place?
Speaker 8: Oh yeah yeah yeah, no, no, yeah agree.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't thought so. Fifteen seconds is a very short time.
Speaker 8: When I did it, it was like somewhere easy, but
Speaker 8: like the fucking I think it's the ogre chef. Yeah,
Speaker 8: that was a pretty hectic fight.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 8: Sounds like typical twitch chat.
Speaker 1: Oh mate, where the peak Schizo podcast as this guy
Speaker 1: has just gone full private server player and it's gone, Mate,
Speaker 1: I killed things in fifteen seconds. A fuck off, idiot, Hey, text,
Speaker 1: I will address your question mates. Look, I sort of
Speaker 1: say the same thing to you I've said to everyone else.
Speaker 1: And this sounds a bit sort of facetious. But it's like, mate,
Speaker 1: you've got to just download and install the thing and
Speaker 1: try it out for yourself. Everyone's asking about the ping,
Speaker 1: particularly the ausies. Every ossie you wants to know, but
Speaker 1: the ping, the ping. I'm not installing shit until you
Speaker 1: tell me about the ping, mate, Just fucking play the
Speaker 1: server and try it. All I can say to you
Speaker 1: is like, it feels like two point fifty. UBI sort
Speaker 1: of has said similar things it. It's just a question
Speaker 1: on how you feel about that kind of ping. So
Speaker 1: don't trust the number that you see when you log
Speaker 1: on and you go, oh, it's saying I've got one
Speaker 1: seventy eight MS. The numbers are lies. Do not believe them.
Speaker 1: You have to just play it and go by feel,
Speaker 1: and then when you feel it, you'll be the best
Speaker 1: judge on whether or not you're comfortable with it. Most
Speaker 1: of us are, but we're also the kind of people
Speaker 1: to happily play on NA servers with you know, Blizzards
Speaker 1: version of the game. So if you're the kind of
Speaker 1: person that has played on an NA server before with
Speaker 1: a Wow Classic and you think that that is definitely
Speaker 1: a fringe too far, then don't play Epoch. If you're like, nah,
Speaker 1: that's the game's fucking unplayable, then then don't play Epoch.
Speaker 1: You'll fucking hate it. But if you have played on
Speaker 1: NA servers before and you're totally fine with it, you're
Speaker 1: going to be totally fine with Epoch.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I get I get two hundred ping, and I've
Speaker 8: said this a few times. It's like, I just don't
Speaker 8: understand it's a GCD based game. Like my warrior is
Speaker 8: swinging his mace every three point four seconds, bro, if
Speaker 8: he gives a fuck about two hundred ms, like you can't,
Speaker 8: oh but your abilities. It's like, I don't know. Victory
Speaker 8: Rush feels like it goes off pretty fucking quick with
Speaker 8: two hundred ms when you're swinging every three and a
Speaker 8: half seconds, Like, I just I don't understand the impact.
Speaker 8: The only thing that pisses me off is the fucking
Speaker 8: slow mailbox.
Speaker 5: That's it.
Speaker 8: That's the only part of the game where the ping.
Speaker 19: But I just say, I certainly highly agree people, if
Speaker 19: you're going to play the game, just don't turn it on.
Speaker 19: Don't have an ad on that that shows your MS.
Speaker 19: Yeah that was I was really skeptical at first myself,
Speaker 19: and I went in with no add ons that they're
Speaker 19: going to show my my MS or my fps. And yeah,
Speaker 19: I'm sitting here at one hundred and ten and I
Speaker 19: don't even notice, like adult.
Speaker 2: The Dream twenty one.
Speaker 1: Wow, But yeah, just just play it. This this this
Speaker 1: is not a server you play for peak performance or
Speaker 1: for a you know, as we've talked about. You don't
Speaker 1: play this server for a bug free experience. You don't
Speaker 1: play it for peak technical performance, you don't play it
Speaker 1: for any of that shit that all the cutting edge
Speaker 1: gamers need and want in their lives. You play this
Speaker 1: server if you're a relatively laid back gamer who prioritizes
Speaker 1: fun and vibes over everything else, because that's what this
Speaker 1: server has in spades.
Speaker 8: I kind of like to think of it as this
Speaker 8: is like an opt in alpha if you're someone that
Speaker 8: wants to figure out what you want in Classic Plus,
Speaker 8: because this is the most playable version of a Classic
Speaker 8: Plus right now. And I don't know, like for me,
Speaker 8: it's kind of it's like my own beta test for
Speaker 8: my own ideas to come play this and go that's good,
Speaker 8: that's shit. I know it sounds a bit crazy, but
Speaker 8: I mean we talk about this fucking this mythical version
Speaker 8: of the game every week or the hypothetical. So if
Speaker 8: you I've said before, fucking if you're just a C
Speaker 8: plus Copium hopeful, then you should try it to see
Speaker 8: if you actually like the concept, because this is the
Speaker 8: most playable concept available at the moment.
Speaker 2: I'm still.
Speaker 19: I'm still stoked, like I've always and I know I'm
Speaker 19: going to get it and I'm going to get it
Speaker 19: real hard. But I've always played Gnomes. I love Gnomes.
Speaker 19: I don't know why it was because I'm short and
Speaker 19: fat in real life. I have no idea, but I
Speaker 19: love Nobes. Like legitimately, I've always played in and the
Speaker 19: new area starting a zone for Gnomes it felt a
Speaker 19: little clunky in the very beginning of it, but all
Speaker 19: in all, I was satisfied. I was happy, Like, you
Speaker 19: get your own zone as a Gnome. You're not sharing
Speaker 19: it with Dwarves, you know. So there there's another good
Speaker 19: take if you happen to want to get out there
Speaker 19: and try it norm at all.
Speaker 2: I agree with you that I hate Nums, but I
Speaker 2: want to try New Zone. It's it's really cool.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed, Like I like that, Yeah, very cool. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's like, you know, you be well, start
Speaker 1: to wind it up. But I'll just say, like on
Speaker 1: on that sort of last point, you know, people would
Speaker 1: be how do I put this again? It's kind of
Speaker 1: the the test on what kind of a gamer are you?
Speaker 1: Where you know, we see it here and we talk
Speaker 1: about like the ms and we know a lot of
Speaker 1: Australian Wow players, who would you know, call us fake
Speaker 1: gamers and fucking idiots for daring to play a version
Speaker 1: of Wow with anything over you know, fifty ms. You know,
Speaker 1: when when there's a choice there and they go, so,
Speaker 1: let me get this straight. You could play on a
Speaker 1: local server with fucking twenty to fifty ms, or you
Speaker 1: could play on a fucking North American or European server
Speaker 1: with two hundred to two hundred and fifty ms, And
Speaker 1: you're choosing the non local SERVI well, you're not a
Speaker 1: fucking real gamer. You're a fucking idiot. Imagine, you know,
Speaker 1: thinking that the gaming industry is serving you anything but
Speaker 1: local ping is acceptable. And I mean, I'm just still
Speaker 1: to this day I was just sort of mockingly laugh
Speaker 1: at that kind of take because I'm like, like, we're
Speaker 1: saying it's at the end of the day, if you
Speaker 1: choose performance over fun, I don't know what to tell you,
Speaker 1: and they're going to sit there and be like, but
Speaker 1: performance is fun. It's like not when you're playing an
Speaker 1: MMO with no people, you fucking idiot. I just epoch
Speaker 1: is really and I've mentioned this in past podcasts and
Speaker 1: I'll sort of hammer at Home even more in the future.
Speaker 1: It's really changed my view to go in even more
Speaker 1: toxic direction towards OCEE players that really do refuse to
Speaker 1: leave their little island of small servers and join a
Speaker 1: larger community for an MMO. And I'm going to get
Speaker 1: them very upset and get some hate mail for this,
Speaker 1: but like, I don't care. They're fucking weird. They're they're
Speaker 1: really weird blokes when you talk to them anyway, so
Speaker 1: I don't give a fuck. All the weirdest cunts are
Speaker 1: the guys that are like, let's sit on our tiny
Speaker 1: oce server with twenty ping and not play with the
Speaker 1: rest of the world. It's like, sorry, but you're fucking weirdos,
Speaker 1: Like it's not and not for that take like you
Speaker 1: are just weird blokes. You are toxically weird cunts. This server,
Speaker 1: the worldwide server, with everyone just getting stung a little
Speaker 1: bit with ping has been incredibly fun. And no, like
Speaker 1: I said, I just can't hammer this home enough, Like
Speaker 1: nobody gives a fuck because we're playing an MMO with
Speaker 1: a shitload of people. Nobody you don't see. I haven't
Speaker 1: seen one person in general chat anywhere going fuck this
Speaker 1: server in its ping.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't see it gribes of it. I don't.
Speaker 8: It's kind of just another situation of like you wish
Speaker 8: it could be the way of like Original Oracle or
Speaker 8: your Jamba, where yes, the server is big enough that
Speaker 8: it's awesome and you get the low ping, but that's
Speaker 8: just not a reality for OCE anymore. Really, That's that's
Speaker 8: the glaring issue that like and they just refuse to
Speaker 8: accept that reality. We're never going to have COVID Classic
Speaker 8: Copium hyper fucking Chamber of fourteen thousand Australians playing a
Speaker 8: version of the game anymore. It's just the it's a
Speaker 8: it's a vice of the region in every fucking game,
Speaker 8: Like we literally can't play pubg because there's not enough players.
Speaker 8: Like it's something that I'm envious of of Like NA
Speaker 8: and EU. You can play any fucking game and there's
Speaker 8: still at least one full server of it of players.
Speaker 8: Like you can go play Battlefield nineteen forty two and
Speaker 8: there'll be forty fucking codges in a service somewhere playing here.
Speaker 8: You can't have that. And even mainstream games like you
Speaker 8: play Dota fucking ell you can que for like half
Speaker 8: an hour sometimes before you find a match. But yeah,
Speaker 8: it's just I don't understand there. They're just unwilling to
Speaker 8: let go of that concept, whereas I already fucking made
Speaker 8: peace with it when we had to do the SOD
Speaker 8: server mergers, and I actually liked it. I really liked
Speaker 8: playing an NA server, and it just it gives me
Speaker 8: like casino vibes, Like it's just twenty four hours, it
Speaker 8: never ends. It's kind of cool.
Speaker 1: They're going through it all again now with the mob stuff,
Speaker 1: and even though they're not forcing, they're not forcing the
Speaker 1: merge on ocee right now. They've basically said we're gonna
Speaker 1: sit back and watch the feedback, and if the feedback
Speaker 1: becomes overwhelmingly positive for the merge, then guess what where. Basically,
Speaker 1: I think they're saying they're effectively going to delete the
Speaker 1: oce server and force them over to naping, and like
Speaker 1: it's it's not going to shock people to hear that.
Speaker 1: I'm okay with that, but like people are blowing up, going,
Speaker 1: you can't for how dare you force us to go
Speaker 1: over to naping? Blah blah blah, Like I just I can't.
Speaker 8: It's it's a horrible environment. Here where they I mean,
Speaker 8: and you can't fault with it, because if they said
Speaker 8: it's for your own good, we're moving you, they all
Speaker 8: get butt hurt. So they just open the gate to
Speaker 8: the paddock next next to yours and go, you can
Speaker 8: leave if you want, and then people like me leave,
Speaker 8: and then that makes more people leave, and more people leave,
Speaker 8: and the guys that stay yell at everyone else.
Speaker 1: Left and blame everyone.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you killed the server for leaving. And you just
Speaker 8: go like, well, I don't have to play on an
Speaker 8: Aussie server so that you have couns to play with
Speaker 8: because you want four ping instead of one hundred and sixty, Like,
Speaker 8: it's not my fucking problem. So and I like a
Speaker 8: busy server. I would I would a thousand times choose
Speaker 8: a ten k n A server over a one k
Speaker 8: Aussie server. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've always said this is what this might be really
Speaker 1: toxic to say a fuck it. I'm going fully in
Speaker 1: on the toxic toxicity against the Oceanic community who were
Speaker 1: sort of against my my thoughts on this one. But like,
Speaker 1: if you raise pin in your argument about your performance
Speaker 1: in game, guess what brother your ship at the game? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's its end. The fucking story.
Speaker 8: It's not the highest factor too, it's not the it's
Speaker 8: not the most important thing to output anyway.
Speaker 5: Sorry, running a thousand things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm talking about like the people who get
Speaker 1: to fifty and then say no, no, no, I need
Speaker 1: to get fifty. Pin. If I get to fifty, that
Speaker 1: drastically affects my performance in RAID or PDP. Mate, you're bad.
Speaker 5: At the game.
Speaker 1: If you can't work around two hundred ping, you you
Speaker 1: are bad at the game.
Speaker 8: No, Josh, it's my two fifties ping fault that I
Speaker 8: stood in the death of the kay for seven seconds
Speaker 8: about moving. Okay, Yeah, it's it's the being's fault.
Speaker 1: That quarter of a second would have made all the
Speaker 1: fucking difference. Oh I didn't. I didn't get to heal
Speaker 1: the tank in time. Well, brother, do you do your precast?
Speaker 1: Do you fucking wait till he's a ten percent to
Speaker 1: start your heal? Anyway, So guys, on that lovely note,
Speaker 1: I'll basically wine this one up. Anyone speak now forever.
Speaker 1: Hold your silence, Marcus, anyone something you have to say
Speaker 1: to everyone while we're doing this.
Speaker 17: No, I think you covered it with the OCE ping debarcle.
Speaker 8: Yeah, so good.
Speaker 5: I just have have a quick another quick FYI.
Speaker 10: If anyone is like planning to play a rogue, yep,
Speaker 10: if you uh, if you try to pickpocket or distract
Speaker 10: a mob that hass lightning shield you will get to
Speaker 10: removed out of stealth.
Speaker 1: There you got that.
Speaker 8: That's a quession for me. Very good pickpocket guys with
Speaker 8: lightning shields.
Speaker 5: It makes sense well.
Speaker 2: Of course, speaking of immersion, service does a pretty good
Speaker 2: job of litle things. Keep your mercy on the boats.
Speaker 2: The boats actually rock like with the waves, yeah, I
Speaker 2: thought was kind of cool. And the Yeah, the level
Speaker 2: sixty racial trade quests are at least the one I
Speaker 2: did was pretty uh like the themes and the lore,
Speaker 2: it was pretty uh spot on and it definitely added
Speaker 2: to the ad and fiel JANKI. All the rating was good.
Speaker 2: Just all things like that that theyn served as well.
Speaker 1: All right, guys, I wind up the podcast recording there,
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to get off the stream or
Speaker 1: the general voice channel. So for all your podcast listeners
Speaker 1: at home, thank you so much for tuning in. We'll
Speaker 1: see you next week. As always, if you're a longtime
Speaker 1: listener to the show, you want to get involved with
Speaker 1: what we're doing. Just whisper anyone slash who countdown, try
Speaker 1: and find an officer and just you know, say the password,
Speaker 1: which is I'm just saying to people, look, mate, just
Speaker 1: say something that shows to me that you listened to
Speaker 1: the show.
Speaker 8: For a while.
Speaker 1: I had a guy before who was like, you know,
Speaker 1: he fell a little bit short of the password, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, come on, make give me something, give me something,
Speaker 1: anything that shows to me that you listen to the show.
Speaker 1: And he goes, you know what, balls of Steel is
Speaker 1: a great underrated guest and I go, fucking beautiful, you're in.
Speaker 1: That's the password. So more of that. Everyone's doing a
Speaker 1: really good job with the guilds we are. We're getting
Speaker 1: a lot of sixties rolling in now. God, let me
Speaker 1: just do a quick live check. We are now ADS
Speaker 1: three hundred and twenty one guild members. A lot of
Speaker 1: those are roults, obviously, but we're going at what one, two, three, four, six, seven, A, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen,
Speaker 1: fifteen level sixties and I think we have over fifty
Speaker 1: people over level forty. That's a fucking little raid team
Speaker 1: coming together there.
Speaker 8: I love it. Yeah, it's coming along nicely and there
Speaker 8: I will. I will get my shit in order in
Speaker 8: about a week's time for guild operations since there are
Speaker 8: actually enough committed players to maybe do some shit.
Speaker 1: Yep, so you Biquitus, it was it was a it
Speaker 1: was a.
Speaker 8: Wait and see situation. But now that you know there
Speaker 8: is so many people.
Speaker 1: We've seen enough kind of going ham.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'll sort some channels out and we'll do some
Speaker 8: sign ups and stuff to do stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is where, like, guys, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: this tongue in cheek like Ubiquitous really is this. He
Speaker 1: is running the show, and I'm not saying that to
Speaker 1: like pass the work to him. But I've said to
Speaker 1: you guys for years now, I'm not a guild leader.
Speaker 1: I'm not that kind of guy. I don't have it
Speaker 1: in me. UB's doing a fantastic job, and he's going
Speaker 1: to spiff everything up and whip up discord channels and
Speaker 1: ship like that and sign up sheets and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So we will turn into you know, a real guild
Speaker 1: if we are a real guilt real guild now, but
Speaker 1: we'll turn into a real rating guild. The biggest thing
Speaker 1: I've said to Ubi is my only request is the
Speaker 1: non guild leader is just to keep the vibes, like,
Speaker 1: we don't want to go full Arcos. You never go
Speaker 1: full Arcos. We're just just just keeping things fucking you know,
Speaker 1: good and fun and at the pub. And I'll leave
Speaker 1: everything else up to him to sort out, you know.
Speaker 1: Arcos is is you know, going to try and fucking
Speaker 1: make the guild go fucking cutting edge. But we'll try.
Speaker 1: We'll do our best not to have it go silly.
Speaker 8: Your send your applications to him to join Speed Team A.
Speaker 8: He's the only member of it at the moment. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 8: he might reject everybody. He'll just be a one man team.
Speaker 1: Exactly all application. But we may we may have multiple
Speaker 1: raid teams. We'll see. Like we said, we've already got
Speaker 1: fifteen level sixties four weeks into the service. So if
Speaker 1: if all the fifty people over level forty ding sixty
Speaker 1: in the next three to four weeks, like that's two
Speaker 1: raid teams.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and we'll I mean, we're probably going to have
Speaker 8: enough people to have an NA team and an EU team,
Speaker 8: or it depends. Maybe we'd rather do a mixed bag
Speaker 8: and it'll be like Morning Raiders and Night raiders from
Speaker 8: across the world all at the same time. Like, I'm
Speaker 8: kind of liking the chaos of it, and yeah, it's
Speaker 8: going to happen.
Speaker 1: I was thinking, well, keep going. Yeah, we'll talk about
Speaker 1: this more later down the track. But I was thinking,
Speaker 1: in an ideal world, you could have like and at
Speaker 1: one team doing the like quote unquote best combination time
Speaker 1: for EU and NA to raid, and then you could
Speaker 1: have a secondary team that maybe the Aussies could get
Speaker 1: in on where it's like sort of okay for all
Speaker 1: three regions and we can chop and change and do whatever.
Speaker 8: Yeah, And I don't know, I can't imagine the content
Speaker 8: is going to be that hard, so like we should
Speaker 8: just be able to slap a group together and do stuff.
Speaker 8: But we'll see. I'm sure there's enough of you guys
Speaker 8: playing all around the fucking clock that from what I
Speaker 8: see checking the discord every day, we should be able to.
Speaker 8: We'll just forego region identities and just put times and
Speaker 8: be like, are you the like just have three raid
Speaker 8: teams at every eight hour intervals? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 8: it'll just be like raid for twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the having one to a Friday night EU
Speaker 1: na slash Saturday Morning o CE Raid would be that'll
Speaker 1: be the fun one. That'll be the pub run.
Speaker 8: Yeah yeah, I think that might end up being the
Speaker 8: most popular. I'm unsure of other people's Friday night like
Speaker 8: availability consistently, but Friday nights have always been the easiest,
Speaker 8: Like just fucking chuck us in there and RAID kind
Speaker 8: of vibe anyway. So now we'll try and get our
Speaker 8: shit organized and there might be might try and make
Speaker 8: an epoch roll or something for the discord so I
Speaker 8: can ping everyone easier and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, for sure. All right, guys, I'll end
Speaker 1: the podcast recording there. Thank you so much for tuning
Speaker 1: in everyone, And that's the episode for today. Everyone, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for listening to all of that. That
Speaker 1: all comes to you courtesy of the following amazing patrons.
Speaker 1: This show would not be on the air if it
Speaker 1: weren't for these people. I would not be doing this
Speaker 1: for free. I can guarantee you these wonderful people slip
Speaker 1: some change into my open guitar case every month, and
Speaker 1: I love them for it. You guys need to thank
Speaker 1: them for keeping this thing going. Flosybe Vucka Croxford odd k, Honeybee, Wintersgate, Zorn,
Speaker 1: Grimoire Plays All the Mighty Doloman, Jaron h Rengo, gra
Speaker 1: vac Simile. They are the big spenders. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: your amazing people. The twenty and ten dollar patron per month,
Speaker 1: then the five dollar and two dollars and one dollar patrons,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. You're all the best. I love
Speaker 1: you just as much, but obviously I love the guys
Speaker 1: paying a little bit more, a little bit more than that,
Speaker 1: But thank you. Guys. Look, you've all just blown away
Speaker 1: my expectations for this guild, every single one of you
Speaker 1: involved in what's going on with countdown on Project Epoch again.
Speaker 1: We're now a month into this thing and the guild
Speaker 1: is a delight. Everyone is so polite, fun, interesting, intelligent
Speaker 1: and just like decent at the game. And just you know,
Speaker 1: I've started running sixty dungeons with people and everyone's just
Speaker 1: chill and yeah there's wipes, but there's laughs and there's
Speaker 1: a bit of answer and giving each other some fun shit.
Speaker 1: But like it's all really fun, positive vibes. At the
Speaker 1: end of the day, guys, this is the most fun
Speaker 1: I have ever had playing World of Warcraft. Full stop,
Speaker 1: and it's because of the you know, the game is great,
Speaker 1: but the social side of things has never been better
Speaker 1: for me. This is the culmination of year's worth of
Speaker 1: investment in the Countdownd of Classic community, and you guys
Speaker 1: are paying it back to me, you know, a thousandfold
Speaker 1: through your you know, just kindness and being amazing people.
Speaker 1: So I really I just want to say really heartfelt
Speaker 1: thank you to all of you who have given Epoker
Speaker 1: go and who have engaged with me socially. You know,
Speaker 1: ninety nine point nine percent of you have been ten
Speaker 1: out of ten. You know, you guys are the best
Speaker 1: I've traveled the world. I've met some of you in person.
Speaker 1: You've all been amazing when I meet up with you.
Speaker 1: With you in person and you're the same online. People
Speaker 1: just grabbing me and saying, hey, Josh, how are you
Speaker 1: nice to meet you? Longtime listener. You know, you guys
Speaker 1: never let me down. You're all awesome people. So if
Speaker 1: I keep talking, I'm gonna get emotional. So I'll stop here.
Speaker 1: But one day I'll say maybe even even an even
Speaker 1: bigger thank you. But guys, get on it. If you
Speaker 1: haven't got on it yet, Epoch is just fucking great.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's the countdown thing that is
Speaker 1: making it quite frankly, I can't stress that enough. You know,
Speaker 1: the server's great, that the content is ten out of ten,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's the social side of things that's
Speaker 1: willing it all together. So hopefully we'll see you in
Speaker 1: game and i'll talk to you in the next episode.