Speaker 1: I don't think we have the intel that we should.
Speaker 1: I think there's more to this than we know. Thanks
Speaker 1: blocking this, they know something that we don't have. They
Speaker 1: know how the financial systems work and what will work
Speaker 1: long term, won't.
Speaker 2: It seems like Bitcoin was the trojan horse almost get
Speaker 2: everybody to come into this technology and acid class, so
Speaker 2: to speak. Buy meme coins, buy NFTs, buy all coins.
Speaker 2: But now tradify is taking over and they're saying, hey,
Speaker 2: here's our tukenized version of our stocks and equities.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Meme coins represent the Internet's culture and that collides
Speaker 1: with financial markets.
Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by Treasure. Treasure makes
Speaker 2: beautifully crafted hardware wallets that allow you to easily and
Speaker 2: safely store your crypto assets. Treasure has been in the
Speaker 2: game for a very long time, since twenty thirteen. They
Speaker 2: were the pioneers of hardware wallets and the seed phrase setup,
Speaker 2: and their hardware wallets are open source. In fact, my
Speaker 2: favorite is the Treasure Save five. It's a beautifully designed
Speaker 2: and easy to use hardware wallet guys, and it's my
Speaker 2: go to and they support a variety of coins, all
Speaker 2: your top crypto tokens, your big coins, your x rp Ethereum,
Speaker 2: Solana and much more and even new coins even black
Speaker 2: Rocks Biddle token, so they support coins on the institutional
Speaker 2: side where you have tokenization of different assets and much more.
Speaker 2: And they even offer a great service that helps you
Speaker 2: to get your treasure device set up. You get one
Speaker 2: on one customer support from their team, so you can
Speaker 2: check that out as well. So once again, I'm a
Speaker 2: big fan of this hardware wallet. So if you'd like
Speaker 2: to learn more, visit the link in the description. Hey, everyone,
Speaker 2: welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony
Speaker 2: Edward and joining me today is Amanda Whitcroft, who is
Speaker 2: the founder of Witcroft PR and the host of Get
Speaker 2: to the Point podcast. Amanda, great to have you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me Tony.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been looking forward to this conversation and lots
Speaker 2: of talk about as far as what's happening in the market,
Speaker 2: and certainly to get your perspectives. But let's kick it
Speaker 2: off with your background. Tell us about where you're from
Speaker 2: and your professional background.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and by the way, I've been following your channel
Speaker 1: for a really long time, so what an honor to
Speaker 1: be your guest now. But I was born on Staten Island,
Speaker 1: and you know, I was very young when my parents
Speaker 1: moved my sister and I to upstate New York, not
Speaker 1: too too far upstate. People get very you know, frustrated
Speaker 1: when I say upstate because I was a Hudson Valley area.
Speaker 1: If you're familiar, it's been an hour and a half
Speaker 1: up state from New York City. Yeah, very beautiful, very
Speaker 1: rural part of New York, you know, farmland, small town.
Speaker 1: I grew up in a town called Campbell Hall, and
Speaker 1: it was it was very pretty, very boring as a
Speaker 1: kid growing up, but as an adult you really come
Speaker 1: to appreciate that quietness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm kind of going through that phase.
Speaker 2: I grew up in New York and Queens so pretty
Speaker 2: much went to school in the city, hung out in
Speaker 2: the city a lot. Now I'm in the burbs in
Speaker 2: New Jersey. And when I did that move in twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: I thought I was going to miss the city so much.
Speaker 2: I was going to be like miserable out in the burbs.
Speaker 2: But now I appreciate it having a backyard, having to quietness,
Speaker 2: and I'm still in proximity to the city so I
Speaker 2: can go out and hang out if I.
Speaker 1: Need to exactly, And that's really what the accessibility to
Speaker 1: a city is everything. So but now I actually I
Speaker 1: live in Charleston, South Carolina, so I was living also,
Speaker 1: I was in the city during COVID and we all
Speaker 1: know how that went. So I left and came down
Speaker 1: here and it's like COVID didn't even happen down here,
Speaker 1: which is so funny. You know New York, we all
Speaker 1: know everything shut down. You couldn't do anything. You had
Speaker 1: to stand six feet apart. Here people were going to
Speaker 1: concerts and it's just a completely different world. But it's
Speaker 1: also like you said, there's a backyard, there's a different
Speaker 1: it's a little bit of a slower life, which is
Speaker 1: a different pace than I'm used to. But it's nice
Speaker 1: to be kind of humbled by that, and you know,
Speaker 1: travel elsewhere and see different different walks of life.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and especially when you have kids, like it makes
Speaker 2: things a lot easier. Tell us about Woodcraft pr and
Speaker 2: as well as your podcast.
Speaker 1: Sure, so Whitcroft PR. I founded this company. So I
Speaker 1: initially it was panneda PR in marketing and I rebranded.
Speaker 1: This was almost ten years ago now, which is wild
Speaker 1: to think about, but I started in hospitality, So I
Speaker 1: had my business in New York City and I grew
Speaker 1: it with close to thirty restaurants and hotels in that area,
Speaker 1: and then covid hit. I lost everyone within a week
Speaker 1: time span, and I pivoted because I had a girl
Speaker 1: working with me at the time who was very well
Speaker 1: versed in crypto and blockchain, and you know, just like
Speaker 1: your podcast, I completely immersed myself in all these things
Speaker 1: that we have at our disposal now. I took classes
Speaker 1: online and I just went down the rabbit hole on Twitter,
Speaker 1: learned everything I could, and I built my business back
Speaker 1: bigger than ever in this space.
Speaker 2: That's amazing. What kind of drew you into crypto? Was it?
Speaker 2: You know, the emergence of this technology, you know what
Speaker 2: was kind of a aha moment for you?
Speaker 1: So it was it was really big cooin, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know it was it was bitcoin. It was My
Speaker 1: first real exposure to crypto was around twenty nineteen, and
Speaker 1: it was just I remember too, I was I was
Speaker 1: co hosting another podcast called Kryptonized, and I had these
Speaker 1: these KOLs like Natalie Brunell and other people who didn't
Speaker 1: even have that big following. They had their following from
Speaker 1: their previous careers if they were journalists or that, but
Speaker 1: they were just getting into this space. So it's kind
Speaker 1: of wild to see the timeline of things now. But
Speaker 1: like many people, at first, I was skeptical. There was
Speaker 1: so much noise and hype around the space. It was
Speaker 1: kind of hard to separate, you know, what was real
Speaker 1: and what was just speculation. So my real aha moment
Speaker 1: came when I stopped thinking about crypto purely as just
Speaker 1: this asset class and I really started understanding it as
Speaker 1: in structure. And I feel like that's happening a lot
Speaker 1: even now, especially in a bear market. So once you
Speaker 1: realize that blockchain is essentially a new financial rail, you know,
Speaker 1: similar to how the Internet was created, as this a
Speaker 1: new way of information to be accessible to all of us,
Speaker 1: it really changes how you view the entire ecosystem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's great. It's great. That's a great
Speaker 2: perspective because it's very challenging for a lot of folks
Speaker 2: to recognize that and the paradigm shift of this technology
Speaker 2: because they're so used to looking at companies, well, what's
Speaker 2: your revenue and what's your stock price? Right, So the
Speaker 2: concept of a network a blockchain network that's globally distributed
Speaker 2: and you can be a participant on a network by
Speaker 2: holding the token or building something on It is like
Speaker 2: this completely new model, and it is you know, you
Speaker 2: had like one buffet and all these guys come on
Speaker 2: to Bigcoin's rat poison Square, Larry Fink, CEO Black Rock
Speaker 2: at one point saying this is all a scam. Jamie Dimond,
Speaker 2: you know how he feels. And now all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: all these guys are like, yeah, we get it.
Speaker 1: We got to build with this, Yeah, exactly. And I
Speaker 1: think that's probably my most that's the most interesting to
Speaker 1: me is the convergence of traditional finance with the digital asset,
Speaker 1: because I don't think there was ever there was a
Speaker 1: point in time, and in fact, my latest substat kind
Speaker 1: of covers this. There was a point in time where
Speaker 1: where it seems like crypto and even the infrastructure was
Speaker 1: going to replace traditional finance. And I think that's why
Speaker 1: there was so much speculation, is because it did not
Speaker 1: seem possible. And now that there's more of this quiet
Speaker 1: not so quiet anymore, there's a blend that even your
Speaker 1: Larry Finks and Jamie Dimonds of the world can no
Speaker 1: longer deny. Now this becomes interesting because now this is
Speaker 1: becoming more realistic, especially from a regulatory standpoint where you
Speaker 1: have an administration and depend you know. The other thing
Speaker 1: I didn't like is depending on who's in office was
Speaker 1: kind of how the market shifted. You know. So when
Speaker 1: Trump leaves, whoever comes in next, you know, do they
Speaker 1: have the power to undo the legislation that Trump is
Speaker 1: about to put into place? Scent. But I think that's
Speaker 1: where we have to align with traditional finance markets because
Speaker 1: then that's kind of untouchable once it integrates.
Speaker 2: That's a great point because like it or not, if Blackrock, JP,
Speaker 2: Morgan in these powerhouses are on board with this technology
Speaker 2: and they want to build it, and they're saying this
Speaker 2: is the future of finance, no way in hell is Congress,
Speaker 2: regardless of which party, they're going to be able to
Speaker 2: pull this.
Speaker 1: Back exactly because it's now it's an underlying part, it's
Speaker 1: the foundation blocks of how people are earning saving you
Speaker 1: Now it's a part of the government in terms of debt.
Speaker 1: You know, you're watching stable coins that are literally buying
Speaker 1: up US treasuries. You know, So now what was once
Speaker 1: just you know, collecting data off of the dollar. It's
Speaker 1: now becoming a part of the digital dollars. So that's
Speaker 1: that's my most interesting that that's what I'm most interested
Speaker 1: of right now.
Speaker 2: Pardon the interruption. Hi, I'm Tony. I'm the host of
Speaker 2: the Thinking Crypto podcast. I wanted to ask you if
Speaker 2: you can please support the podcast by hitting the like
Speaker 2: button subscribing. If you haven't as yet, you can leave
Speaker 2: a comment below as well. And if you're listening on
Speaker 2: a podcast platform such as Spotify, Apple or wherever you
Speaker 2: get your podcasts, please be sure to follow and hit
Speaker 2: the five star rating. I'll let you get back to
Speaker 2: the content. Thank you so much. A man, I don't
Speaker 2: know what do you think about this. It may sound
Speaker 2: conspiratual or conspiratorial, let's say word it there. But it
Speaker 2: seems like bitcoin was the trojan horse almost get everybody
Speaker 2: to come into this technology and acid class, so to speak.
Speaker 2: Buy meme coins, buy NFTs, buy all coins. But now
Speaker 2: Tradify is taking over and they're saying, hey, here's our
Speaker 2: tukenized version of our stocks and equities. And don't get
Speaker 2: me wrong, there are benefits there. Here are US dollar
Speaker 2: back stable coins and maybe you can kind of forget
Speaker 2: about the NFT meme coin things. I don't know, it
Speaker 2: seems that that's direction we're headed. And also Cbdc's yeah,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: You know, when you look at meme coins and NFTs,
Speaker 1: meme coins represent the Internet's culture and that collides with
Speaker 1: financial markets. So they're they're driven largely by community humor
Speaker 1: and momentum rather than your fundamentals. So that's where a
Speaker 1: lot of them fade away over time. But you know,
Speaker 1: and again from a PR and marketing standpoint, they do
Speaker 1: demonstrate how powerful online communities can be when they rally
Speaker 1: around a shared narrative and then you have you know,
Speaker 1: NFTs are a bit different. So of course we all
Speaker 1: know the speculative art phase. They grabbed headlines, they you know,
Speaker 1: but then there was the underlying technology, and there was
Speaker 1: the digital ownership, and there was the verifiable you know
Speaker 1: providence where we saw that that was that was something
Speaker 1: shaping the next wave of NFTs. So there was utility
Speaker 1: with ticketing, you know, gaming, digital identity, uh, intellectual property
Speaker 1: like so n f ts in my opinion, are way
Speaker 1: more powerful today than they and I know that they
Speaker 1: were trying to rebrand that even to digital collectibles. I
Speaker 1: think they were trying to kind of massage that wording
Speaker 1: into the culture theme coins. I think they need to
Speaker 1: rebrand that now too because of all the the rug
Speaker 1: pulls with meme coins and just but if you read
Speaker 1: the tiny print in meme coins, you know you are
Speaker 1: it's gambling. It's one hundred percent. You're taking a risk. NFTs,
Speaker 1: I think are still figuring themselves out. But I just
Speaker 1: I feel like it's almost the casino of this ecosystem,
Speaker 1: both of these things. Until NFTs figure figure its figures
Speaker 1: its way out, that's where that exists. But meme coins,
Speaker 1: you know, again, I think I feel like it's almost
Speaker 1: gen Z's way of entering into this world. It's like,
Speaker 1: try it, try it a bit, look at what's look
Speaker 1: at who's in the you know, in the industry, look
Speaker 1: at some of the stakeholders, because there is to say
Speaker 1: to it. It helps. It's an open doorway to entering
Speaker 1: this market. You know. It's like because when you come
Speaker 1: into mean coins, you don't just stay in mean coins.
Speaker 1: It always seems to be like a rabbit hole similar
Speaker 1: to X of like that that's your start of something
Speaker 1: you know, way more, it's like a gateway to this industry.
Speaker 2: Sometimes, Yeah, it's funny, you know, it's it's good and bad, right,
Speaker 2: It has its pros and cons because to your point,
Speaker 2: this technology is so fascinating and has tons of benefits.
Speaker 2: So that same concept of mean coins and crowd sourcing
Speaker 2: around a movement that could be used for good in
Speaker 2: raising funds for people who need help, entrepreneurs who are saying, hey,
Speaker 2: here's my idea, you can bet on me. I feel
Speaker 2: like that's the future. Just human beings are going to
Speaker 2: be human beings. So like, there's going to be a
Speaker 2: mean coin around the most dumb thing, right, this cat
Speaker 2: eating ice cream, I don't know, something like that, and
Speaker 2: it goes viral. It's so so wild.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that and then there becomes a conversation also
Speaker 1: of the pay to play, you know, influencers, which I've
Speaker 1: been very vocal about, and a lot of your mean
Speaker 1: coins like I hate that hok to a girl who
Speaker 1: created a pan. You know, it's it's also kind of
Speaker 1: a representation of our society today. Is if you're going
Speaker 1: to buy a mean coin because you were, you know,
Speaker 1: a fan of Hawk to a girl, I think that
Speaker 1: says more about where your investments and priorities are more
Speaker 1: so than the risk of this industry. And it's like
Speaker 1: and and again with the pay to play models, a
Speaker 1: lot of your KOLs in the space are not forthcoming
Speaker 1: about their paid partnerships. So they're backing tokens or they're
Speaker 1: backing projects that you know they're not they're not organically promoting,
Speaker 1: they're being paid to and then people are getting So
Speaker 1: you really have to be very smart when you approach
Speaker 1: this industry because there's a lot of I mean, and
Speaker 1: I can say that from the for the culture at large,
Speaker 1: not just crypto, it's a lot of celebrities and influencers
Speaker 1: that it's just we need to be more critically thinking
Speaker 1: when it comes to investment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and education piece is you needed. I try my
Speaker 2: best to remind people about that, and note that if
Speaker 2: you're going to invest in mean coins, it's like going
Speaker 2: to the casino throwing it on red or black. I
Speaker 2: don't understand who's maybe behind it. Right. There are some
Speaker 2: legit meme coins if I want to say that, like
Speaker 2: dosee coin, proven been around for a long time, has
Speaker 2: a brand, has a community, has adoption in the real world,
Speaker 2: where certain brands and companies accepted as payments. But if
Speaker 2: something was started last week, you got to be careful.
Speaker 2: It could be some random DODWS basement getting ready to rug.
Speaker 1: You, exactly. And in this economy, I don't even know
Speaker 1: how many people are still unless you have money to
Speaker 1: just throw away, I guess good on you, but I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm not looking at meme coins.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Same, That's something I stay away from. And some
Speaker 2: people they do give me crap for it. They're like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're missing out on this. I'm like, no, thanks, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna invest in somebody these projects that are actually getting
Speaker 2: adoption from institutions.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 2: You mentioned the economy, and obviously things are a bit
Speaker 2: rough right now going on, and I think this had
Speaker 2: to play. This played a part in the crypto market
Speaker 2: maybe not being as spectacular as we've seen in the
Speaker 2: past cycles where you had euphoria, parabolic one up, retail
Speaker 2: flooding in right. We didn't have that this past cycle,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people were disappointed. Bitcoin I think
Speaker 2: did pretty well, obviously thinking one hundred and twenty six thousand,
Speaker 2: but then there was talks of manipulation potentially October tenth
Speaker 2: or eleventh last year, and the big cascading effect after that,
Speaker 2: you know, what are your thoughts on how kind of
Speaker 2: the bull market ended? And it was lackluster.
Speaker 1: It was lackluster, and I think, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the biggest developments in the past few years has, like
Speaker 1: I said, been the gradual embrace of crypto by traditional
Speaker 1: finance institutions. And I think that's where we're going to see,
Speaker 1: even in a bear market that we're in right now.
Speaker 1: Your banks, your asset managers, your payment networks, you know,
Speaker 1: they're recognizing that blockchain technology can improve settlement times, transparency efficiencies,
Speaker 1: like like you mentioned black Rock launching bitcoin ETFs, you know,
Speaker 1: or major financial institutions exploring digital asset custody, and so
Speaker 1: I think that signals that crypto is no longer on
Speaker 1: the fringe so to speak, you know, it's instead it's
Speaker 1: it's becoming one. And I think also off of that
Speaker 1: is you have tokenization, and that's again another area I'm
Speaker 1: most excited about. So you're you you know, it simply
Speaker 1: means you're representing real world assets on blockchain rails, and
Speaker 1: that could be real estate, commodities, equity, is private credit.
Speaker 1: And so I think that gets really interesting because we've
Speaker 1: been sitting in these cycles at bull Bear, you know,
Speaker 1: and I just went on proof of PR to talk
Speaker 1: about you know, if your if your company is dependent
Speaker 1: on the market in terms of its it's relevance, then
Speaker 1: it's fragile, I really do. It's so we have to
Speaker 1: be able to move past just the markets and how
Speaker 1: how we And that's why infrastructure is most important in
Speaker 1: my opinion. You know, historically asset classes have been difficult
Speaker 1: to access unless you're a large institution or you're a
Speaker 1: high net worth investor. So I think things like this,
Speaker 1: this trad fi movement, tokenization, it has the potential to
Speaker 1: make things more efficient and not so dependent on the markets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a brave new world. And when you think
Speaker 2: about you know, Larry Finks said a couple of years
Speaker 2: ago or two or three years ago that tokenization is
Speaker 2: the future of finance. So it seems everybody's in the
Speaker 2: race on Wall Street to tokenize as many of equities
Speaker 2: as possible plus commodities. Right, They're looking to do gold
Speaker 2: and much more and then put you know, any of
Speaker 2: their fancy financial products, money market funds and these things
Speaker 2: on chain. And eventually I think you're going to get
Speaker 2: to real estate. So it's going to be really crazy, Amanda.
Speaker 2: I think in maybe ten years time, all the stock
Speaker 2: exchanges are twenty four to seven, everybody's training twenty four
Speaker 2: to seven. We might need AI it just to help
Speaker 2: us while we're sleeping, because it's going to be crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but think about with that, I feel that that
Speaker 1: makes the economy boom. You know, it's like you are
Speaker 1: no longer. I think there is good to AI. Despite
Speaker 1: the headlines that we're reading of it taking over, I
Speaker 1: don't think we're going to see that in our lifetime
Speaker 1: because that's where you have no economy. How can you
Speaker 1: have an economy if you don't have humans working. You know,
Speaker 1: you need the tax base, you need the people at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, but you also do need
Speaker 1: a technology that is assisting humans. And I think that's
Speaker 1: what it will always be. It will be a tool
Speaker 1: that we use, not that replaces us in order to
Speaker 1: because we're in such a very volatile time, probably one
Speaker 1: of the worst in our history, and just from a
Speaker 1: culture standpoint as well, and I think it's going to
Speaker 1: help to settle all of that to some degree.
Speaker 2: That's a great point. And there are so many macroeconomic
Speaker 2: and geopolitical factors happening right now, and that's going to
Speaker 2: change the I think there's a book. I forget what
Speaker 2: it's called. The title escapes me. But the point is,
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's the Fourth Turning, but it's
Speaker 2: a time of major change. Essentially, is the TLDR. And
Speaker 2: I guess maybe this all started with the Internet because
Speaker 2: because of the Internet, then you can have scalability for
Speaker 2: technology like blockchain and the movement of data information plus AI.
Speaker 2: So it's like maybe like the Industrial Revolution that took
Speaker 2: place in the late eighteen hundreds into early nineteen hundreds
Speaker 2: with the automobile, the combustion engine, and electricity. You know
Speaker 2: that was such a major disruption. If you feel like
Speaker 2: we're in that type of moment and it's so disruptive, yes,
Speaker 2: there's going to be like peaks and valleys where some
Speaker 2: industries get wiped out, some jobs get wiped out, but
Speaker 2: new ones get created eventually. To your point, if these
Speaker 2: AI agents and robots, human and I robits are part
Speaker 2: of the workforce and economy, what does that mean for
Speaker 2: a lot of people in jobs? Could it be universal
Speaker 2: basic income has to be.
Speaker 1: On the table exactly. I think it's just a recalibration.
Speaker 1: It's a total reset as to how we're thinking of
Speaker 1: the workforce because it's been a lot of where we're
Speaker 1: just kind of coasting at this point with how we've
Speaker 1: been working and how we've been operating. And I think
Speaker 1: AI forces people to finally deal with, Okay, we need
Speaker 1: to be utilizing talent in a different way. So I
Speaker 1: actually started my career in Hollywood. I started at the
Speaker 1: talent agency, and I worked for a director and things
Speaker 1: like that. So of course, the biggest headline as we
Speaker 1: know is AI is going to replace actors. And you know,
Speaker 1: and to me, coming from that world of talent management
Speaker 1: and production, you watch your NEPO babies, you know, take
Speaker 1: opportunities from rising talent. You watch celebrities take on nationwide
Speaker 1: commercials that could have been given to a no name
Speaker 1: who's just trying to audition and make a name for themselves.
Speaker 1: And so to me, you know, you get kind of
Speaker 1: jaded and you're like, well, what's what's the problem? AI
Speaker 1: should walk right in. You're not focused on talent, clearly,
Speaker 1: it's who you know or you know, you've got to
Speaker 1: be a celebrity in order to get the parts so
Speaker 1: what do you care if AI walks right in and
Speaker 1: takes But see, to me, it's forcing an industry to go, Okay,
Speaker 1: we need to we need to hone in more on
Speaker 1: talent because otherwise here's what's going to happen. And I
Speaker 1: think the same for every single industry. It does make
Speaker 1: you rethink what you have and how to use it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great point. It's fascinating. There's a look.
Speaker 2: I try to keep a balance because there's a dystopian
Speaker 2: angle to it, and you don't want to be too
Speaker 2: immersed in a dystopian But there's also pros, right, Like
Speaker 2: I often try to tell people who are like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, he's going to destroy a sky net and
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, But think about a humanoid robot that's
Speaker 2: helping your grandma, right, or someone's old or someone who's disabled,
Speaker 2: and the things they will help them to do and
Speaker 2: make their lives better and help up improve our driving
Speaker 2: and all these different things. Right, mitigate a lot of
Speaker 2: the problems and risk not eliminate all of it, of course, right,
Speaker 2: But there's tons, tons of benefits and it could maybe
Speaker 2: you know, the humanoid robot or these AI agents can
Speaker 2: go out and do things and earn for you and
Speaker 2: that frees you up to do things.
Speaker 1: You love and exactly and who can argue with that?
Speaker 1: And I know there are I think we also need
Speaker 1: to accept that there are pros and cons to everything.
Speaker 1: You know, look at what social media has done to
Speaker 1: the world. Did we I think even your your people
Speaker 1: who have built these platforms didn't realize how the technology
Speaker 1: was moving faster than they even expected to have the
Speaker 1: you know, effects that it did on humanity. So I
Speaker 1: also think we need to accept that there will be
Speaker 1: a downside, but we need to be a little more
Speaker 1: realistic that it's not just going to come in and
Speaker 1: take us over. Because I actually just had Trevor kuberco
Speaker 1: On get to the point a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: and it's interesting because he's all about training these data sets,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, how do you train the AI when
Speaker 1: so many people are now, you know, using it, including myself,
Speaker 1: to rewrite something or make something sound better. And it's
Speaker 1: so you're getting so much data now that people are
Speaker 1: the output is all AI that when the AI is
Speaker 1: scraping data, how do they differentiate now from what's human
Speaker 1: and what's now coming back as their own output, and
Speaker 1: he actually was having issues answering the question because it's
Speaker 1: so true, so many people are reliant on this technology.
Speaker 1: You're now losing human data for the AI to extract.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I also wonder if we are so you know,
Speaker 2: humans tend to go through the cyclical patterns and sometimes
Speaker 2: we get tired of board of things and we look
Speaker 2: for the opposite. So maybe eventually, Amanda, like, we are
Speaker 2: so immersed with AI and humanoid robots that we start
Speaker 2: longing for human interaction and real human feelings and emotions
Speaker 2: that we do figure it out and we find that balance.
Speaker 1: Over time, exactly, And that's part of the recalibration. And
Speaker 1: I think it's a I think it's going to be
Speaker 1: a great thing because we are repeating history to a
Speaker 1: certain degree, and I do I think there's going to
Speaker 1: be like a boomerang where we're going to need more
Speaker 1: human and I hope for our children, you know that
Speaker 1: there is that boomerang because we need we need human
Speaker 1: like we need the in person, and I think we've
Speaker 1: lost that a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, everything that's happening in the crypto market.
Speaker 2: There's a big debate happening in DC between the banks
Speaker 2: and the crypto industry. The banks want to block stable
Speaker 2: corn rewards and yield, which I actually hate because we know,
Speaker 2: if you got a regular checking or savings account, you're
Speaker 2: getting zero point zero one percent. They give you to
Speaker 2: bread crumbs while they keep the majority of the returns
Speaker 2: right and they're trying to hold up the Clarity Act.
Speaker 2: You know, what are your thoughts on that situation?
Speaker 1: You know, the regulatory to be often centers on consumer
Speaker 1: protection or how how stable coins might interact with with
Speaker 1: the traditional banking system. So some banks have expressed concern
Speaker 1: because stable coins could compete with certain aspects of the
Speaker 1: deposit model. At the same time, thoughtful regulation should strengthen
Speaker 1: the ecosystem and it should accelerate adoption because we're ensuring transparency.
Speaker 1: So another point I often emphasize is that in many
Speaker 1: emerging markets, stable coins are not a speculative tool at all.
Speaker 1: They're they're actually a financial lifeline, and it's for people
Speaker 1: dealing with you know, unstable local currencies. That's a that's
Speaker 1: a very different lens than how the technology is sometimes
Speaker 1: sometimes viewed here in the US. So I think it's yeah,
Speaker 1: I think stable coins are fascinating because of that intersection
Speaker 1: that they're sitting at, and they're they're essentially they're digital dollars,
Speaker 1: so they're they're providing more access for people than I
Speaker 1: think ever before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I wish these banks were but look, I
Speaker 2: get it, they're the incumbents. They're getting disrupted. But I
Speaker 2: like to share the addingdotal example of myself. Like I'm
Speaker 2: a JP Morgan Chase customer. I have my stuff and
Speaker 2: my money, my savings and checking. Of course, I have
Speaker 2: larger investment accounts with you know, other folks, but I
Speaker 2: also have some money on coinbase and uphold, where I'm
Speaker 2: earning stable coin rewards and it's higher than what JP
Speaker 2: Morgan's giving me in the savings, and not to mention,
Speaker 2: I'm staking crypto as well. So I feel like these
Speaker 2: banks are trying to block the ability for consumers to
Speaker 2: earn more. They should just compete, launch your own stable
Speaker 2: coins or up the interest rates. But yeah, I think I.
Speaker 1: Think they're way to First of all, I don't think
Speaker 1: we have the intel that we should. I think there's
Speaker 1: more to this than we know because banks blocking this,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, they just they know something that we
Speaker 1: don't have that that's my gut. And again I'm putting
Speaker 1: my tinfoil hat on here, but I have to think
Speaker 1: that because they've been around for so long that I
Speaker 1: feel like they know how, you know, how the financial
Speaker 1: systems work and what what will work long term what won't.
Speaker 1: And while I appreciate what coinbase is doing, you know,
Speaker 1: I also think we like that convergence needs to happen
Speaker 1: more so than replacement because, like I mentioned before, all
Speaker 1: of this legislation, the Genius Act, that can be overturned
Speaker 1: the minute somebody new comes into office who, let's just say,
Speaker 1: isn't bullish on crypto or it doesn't like these new
Speaker 1: rails that have been So I think there needs to
Speaker 1: be kind of a middle ground in terms of how
Speaker 1: we work with the banks as opposed to you know,
Speaker 1: crypto's the new uh, the new financial but stable coins. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hope I'm explaining this properly. I think they'll just
Speaker 1: strengthen that ecosystem as opposed to replacing it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, I saw Jamie Diamond CEO jpen Morgan.
Speaker 2: He was complaining a bit, and it's like, just compete, man,
Speaker 2: either up your interests that you paid to consumers, then
Speaker 2: you wouldn't have to go to stable coins. If JP
Speaker 2: Morgan was giving me, you know, you weren't keeping the
Speaker 2: line share of what they get from their money park
Speaker 2: to the FED, then you know, I wouldn't necessarily have
Speaker 2: to go to coinbase and or you know, I think
Speaker 2: the banks should just launch their own stable coins. I
Speaker 2: think that's the direction of Puck's heading in. I think
Speaker 2: just this morning I saw Wells Fargo they filed for
Speaker 2: some sort of pattern or something like that around the
Speaker 2: stable coin that they're going to look to launch. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think, I don't know, maybe this could be a
Speaker 2: delay tactic on their end to catch up.
Speaker 1: Maybe, I don't you what are your opinions on ETFs
Speaker 1: that banks are launching, you know, because that's another thing
Speaker 1: that they're trying to because it's really the banks are for,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, the older generations. You're never going to
Speaker 1: get the boomers to all or at least all of
Speaker 1: them to open coin base accounts and to open you know,
Speaker 1: they're they're already scared to pick up the phone when
Speaker 1: it's a new number that they don't recognize. You know,
Speaker 1: you're they're going to stick with these name banks even
Speaker 1: if they're being screwed over because they know what they
Speaker 1: are and they're gonna stick with what they know. So,
Speaker 1: you know, ETFs, I feel like, are a bit of
Speaker 1: a door into this industry without having to completely transform themselves.
Speaker 1: But I'm curious to hear your opinion.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I totally agree. I often give the example
Speaker 2: of my mom and dad, like they're not gonna go
Speaker 2: on coinbase and all that, right, but they know of
Speaker 2: their bank, right, and they know of certain investment firms
Speaker 2: like your Fidelities and so forth. They're familiar with that,
Speaker 2: so they would be more comfortable going that route and
Speaker 2: not having to jump through a whole bunch of hoops.
Speaker 2: But saying hey, yeah, sure, added to my account. I
Speaker 2: want to exposure to bitcoin, and they know of the
Speaker 2: the asset. They know like I'm in the industry, and
Speaker 2: they will, Uh my mom and things like I have
Speaker 2: talked about investing in it, but she going on coinbase.
Speaker 2: Hell now she's gonna go through like her local banks.
Speaker 2: So I think it's a huge on. Wrap the ETFs
Speaker 2: and then the banks and these institutions, which you know,
Speaker 2: the masters are familiar with, certainly helps with the adoption.
Speaker 2: So I think that certainly works. And then it's also
Speaker 2: crypto has not how should I put it, It hasn't
Speaker 2: reached a standard yet where exploits and vulnerabilities are maybe
Speaker 2: just one percent of the things that happen. Right, We're
Speaker 2: seeing a lot of hacks still happen. So I don't
Speaker 2: think people want to be you know, that will turn
Speaker 2: off a lot of folks. I think if they go
Speaker 2: through their trusted institutions, they don't have to worry about
Speaker 2: custody or seed phrases. I think that will work out
Speaker 2: well for a lot of folks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, because it's not just your boomers, it's
Speaker 1: even your millennials who are skeptics who are staying away
Speaker 1: from these things, who they just you know, there is
Speaker 1: like a comfortability with your with where you put your money,
Speaker 1: and I agree with you. I think banks are kind
Speaker 1: of buying time to catch up to how to approach
Speaker 1: the younger generations. But the current approach I think they're
Speaker 1: being very cautious of because it's too it's you can't
Speaker 1: go zero to one hundred, which I agree with. You're
Speaker 1: not going to get a budy simply because this is
Speaker 1: the trend on Twitter. I think people tend to live
Speaker 1: in this bubble on Twitter in our industry. But when
Speaker 1: you when you zoom out outside of that, you know,
Speaker 1: people don't know these names, people don't know the and
Speaker 1: so that's kind of the the barrier to entry there
Speaker 1: is when you get off of these platforms, even Telegram.
Speaker 1: You know, you talk to people millennials and you say
Speaker 1: the word telegram outside of this industry and people are like,
Speaker 1: what is it? Well, yeah, you know WhatsApp. Why don't
Speaker 1: they know Telegram? Why don't they know Discord? And that's
Speaker 1: where I say, like, if you zoom outside of this
Speaker 1: bubble that we're in, Uh, That's that's really where I
Speaker 1: think the real conversation happens and needs to happen, because
Speaker 1: we need to learn outside of the safari we're on,
Speaker 1: who these people are and how we need to how
Speaker 1: we need to market to them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great, great point. So you're telling me,
Speaker 2: Amanda Michael Sailors tweets about bigcoin is the lifeline and
Speaker 2: it's the Messiah. Are not going to convince them millions
Speaker 2: and billions of people.
Speaker 1: No, His ai generated images of him with a with
Speaker 1: a giant and gladiator suits just not gonna not gonna
Speaker 1: sell my boomer Mom. I'm sorry, Like, it's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2: It'll probably be turned out like is this a cult?
Speaker 2: Is this? What is this? Like?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he is, you know. I have an interesting story
Speaker 1: about Michael Saylor. I I went to Bitcoin DC on
Speaker 1: behalf of a client October of last year, and he
Speaker 1: was supposed to do something for us, and and it
Speaker 1: didn't work out. We were we were going back and
Speaker 1: forth with his assistant, because that's the only way you
Speaker 1: get in touch with Michael Sailor, you got to go
Speaker 1: through his assistant. And and that's fine. He's a busy guy,
Speaker 1: as we all know, you know, generating those AI images
Speaker 1: of himself and gladiator suits and uh so the only
Speaker 1: way I wanted to get in front of him in
Speaker 1: d C. And I was determined, and he was promoting
Speaker 1: his book there. So there was this long line and
Speaker 1: I waited on this line and I finally get to
Speaker 1: the front of it and they ran out of books
Speaker 1: and there was a guy there was a guy right
Speaker 1: behind me was so eager to meet him, huge fan,
Speaker 1: and I think they had said they had one book left,
Speaker 1: and I said, just can't just go ahead because I
Speaker 1: didn't want a book. I didn't want I just wanted
Speaker 1: to talk to him, so I said, go ahead, take
Speaker 1: the last book. And then they said, oh, I'm so sorry,
Speaker 1: we actually ran out of books. And he looks at
Speaker 1: me and I said, I'm so sorry. I don't I
Speaker 1: actually don't want a book. I just want to talk
Speaker 1: to you. And I said who I was and who
Speaker 1: I was representing, and I said, you know, i'd love
Speaker 1: if we could, if you could just make an appearance
Speaker 1: really quickly, and he, I don't know how, but out
Speaker 1: of nowhere, his assistant came up from behind him and
Speaker 1: he just completely shoved me off onto her. Didn't stop
Speaker 1: what like, just was like, goodbye, you don't want my signature,
Speaker 1: you don't want my book, get out of my face.
Speaker 1: And the kid, his fan, saw this all happen and said, well, well,
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm a fan of his anymore. He
Speaker 1: was just so dismissive. And I kind of was turned
Speaker 1: off by that experience, because you know, here's a guy
Speaker 1: who's supposed to be this tech nerd. Right autism has
Speaker 1: apparently become a very trendy personality type in this industry,
Speaker 1: because you're a tech nerd but I see a guy
Speaker 1: who's become very, very into himself and celebrity like and
Speaker 1: like I said, coming from Hollywood, I left that industry
Speaker 1: for a good reason and I have no tolerance and
Speaker 1: there is really no reason for an ego even when
Speaker 1: you meet that you know, that place of success, and
Speaker 1: it just yeah, completely turned me off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, you're not the only one that feels
Speaker 2: that way. I know some very staunch Bitcoin maxis who
Speaker 2: are turned off by what Michael Saylor is doing. And
Speaker 2: I have my concerns because of the amount of debt
Speaker 2: and leverage he's using to buy bitcoin, and I think
Speaker 2: he needs you know, there are digital acid treasury companies,
Speaker 2: and there are companies who simply are saying, hey, we're
Speaker 2: going to take some of our cash on our balance
Speaker 2: sheet and buy some bitcoin. That's how it started the movement.
Speaker 2: And then he put it on steroids and I think
Speaker 2: it's a Initially it was a benefit he was spreading
Speaker 2: the message about bitcoin, but now I believe it's becoming
Speaker 2: a risk, and I'm worried because if micro strategy collapses
Speaker 2: or strategy collapses, that would be detrimental to bitcoin and
Speaker 2: the crypto market. It'll be a really bad staying on
Speaker 2: the industry. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, his whole his entire company is a hedge against bitcoin.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that in itself is very You even
Speaker 1: have Bitcoin Maxi's who are just like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: don't you want to maybe like get into the other
Speaker 1: So but that's why I think he's doing. He's getting
Speaker 1: into these other markets when really it just to me,
Speaker 1: it's one headline after the next to look a certain
Speaker 1: way as opposed to actually backing you know, the currency
Speaker 1: or the infrastructure itself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm hoping, you know, nothing bad happens with
Speaker 2: strategy because it would just it would be like another FTX,
Speaker 2: even though I'm not trying to say he's a scammer
Speaker 2: or anything like that, but we know how the headlines
Speaker 2: will look. Yeah, we know what. I'm going to get
Speaker 2: calls some people like, hey, what happened to bigheads? I'm
Speaker 2: going to have to go through that again.
Speaker 1: No, exactly. Well that's why you know, bitcoin and it's
Speaker 1: a great I love the idea of it. I loved it,
Speaker 1: but you also need good people behind it in order
Speaker 1: for it to move forward. And I do think there
Speaker 1: are good faces behind bitcoin outside of Michael Saylor, but
Speaker 1: he does scare me, and I would think anybody who's
Speaker 1: being very honest in the industry would say the same.
Speaker 1: He's a scary face because I'm telling you, one day
Speaker 1: stuff that's going to come out about this guy, and
Speaker 1: it's like then everybody's going to have to like reset
Speaker 1: and find somebody else to make the face because unfortunately
Speaker 1: he is one of the faces a bitcoin. So they're
Speaker 1: going to have to, you know, rebrand Bitcoin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how that happens or who's who's
Speaker 2: going to be the replacement or maybe a maan it
Speaker 2: is we alluded to earlier, the et apps, Right, maybe
Speaker 2: it's black Rock, and I'm not saying I want that,
Speaker 2: but maybe the trad five folks become the face, right
Speaker 2: because Blackrock has the largest Bitcoin ETF, it's the fastest
Speaker 2: growing ETF and his vts, so maybe they become the face.
Speaker 1: Honestly, I get behind that one hundred percent. You can't
Speaker 1: you cannot change what exists in that you know, we're
Speaker 1: a capitalist nation and you would be foolish to think
Speaker 1: that you can change what exists because crypto has you know,
Speaker 1: momentum and the yield that people are having as opposed
Speaker 1: to banks traditional finance, Like you have to see that
Speaker 1: there is power in the migration of these two things.
Speaker 2: One of the things we mentioned earlier was the Clarity Act,
Speaker 2: the crypto marketstructure build that's currently being blocked because of
Speaker 2: the debate between the banks and the crypto industry. But
Speaker 2: once that's passed, Amanda, I feel like there's going to
Speaker 2: be this massive innovation boom. More of the trad five
Speaker 2: folks will be able to invest more money and build
Speaker 2: and push a lot of things in production. So do
Speaker 2: you feel the same way that this is kind of
Speaker 2: the catalyst that's going to kick off and even for
Speaker 2: the greater risk of race in trying to adopt the technology.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's creating a clearer framework, so you know,
Speaker 1: you have innovators who are finally going to understand the
Speaker 1: rules of the road. I think a part of the
Speaker 1: skepticism for many entering and part of the reasons so
Speaker 1: many builders have have not you know, especially like I
Speaker 1: said in a bear market, have not moved forward with
Speaker 1: their projects is because there was no clear framework. So
Speaker 1: if implemented thoughtfully, you know, I think it should encourage
Speaker 1: more companies to build here in the United States. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of things that moved offshore. You know,
Speaker 1: there was already uncertainty, and when you don't build it
Speaker 1: here in this country, I think that even creates more uncertainty.
Speaker 1: I also hope a lot of our conferences, you know,
Speaker 1: these big ones come back to this to the United States.
Speaker 1: You know, I think we need to stop going to Dubai.
Speaker 1: I think we need to stop going to you know,
Speaker 1: I don't mind going to Paris occasionally, but I think
Speaker 1: we need to bring our big crypto conferences. Since you know,
Speaker 1: we have a president right now who is touting, banging
Speaker 1: on the drums that bring it back here. And if
Speaker 1: we're sett in this new legislation, let's let's go bring
Speaker 1: bring these big conferences back to the United States.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well said, I'm hoping a lot more of that
Speaker 2: happens here in the States. And you know, the the
Speaker 2: entrepreneurs and the builders, many who left under the Biden
Speaker 2: Gainster era, they start coming back. I know some of
Speaker 2: them have already done so. But I think when the
Speaker 2: Clarity Act is passed, I think we're going to see
Speaker 2: a lot of folks because look, we have the largest
Speaker 2: capital markets, and I would think that in itself would
Speaker 2: attract a lot of folks, plus the clarity that we
Speaker 2: were absolutely.
Speaker 1: I just hope it stays that way too, because, like
Speaker 1: you know, if you get one president in who does
Speaker 1: all this great all these great things, you know, and
Speaker 1: then the next president comes in and can overturn all
Speaker 1: of it in two seconds. And that's where I think
Speaker 1: the infrastructure part of this is the most important thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The good the good thing that we are seeing
Speaker 2: is that. And I know this firsthand because I interviewed
Speaker 2: a lot of Democrats in the binary such as Rocanna,
Speaker 2: Darren Soto, while nikel On a bunch of others. They
Speaker 2: were pro technology, pro crypto. They just couldn't say anything
Speaker 2: or come out against the party because Elizabeth Warrene was
Speaker 2: sitting at the top financial seat. So and and I
Speaker 2: even off the record conversations, they were like, yeah, look,
Speaker 2: there's only so much I can say. This shouldn't be
Speaker 2: a political issue at all.
Speaker 1: Great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but and thankfully there's many more Democrats, Richie Torres
Speaker 2: and and all these guys who have been doing a
Speaker 2: great job. Senator Chris Kristen Jillibrand as well, big big
Speaker 2: advocate of crypto. So I'm glad that more of the
Speaker 2: Democrats are able to come out and state their positions,
Speaker 2: and you know, they believe in this technology. So I'm
Speaker 2: optimistic that hopefully aman we don't have anybody come and
Speaker 2: roll things back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and speaking of Elizabeth Warren, we need John deaton
Speaker 1: to get in there. You know, I hope he's. If
Speaker 1: I were in Massachusetts, I would vote for that guy
Speaker 1: in two seconds. But I hope he. I hope he
Speaker 1: wins this time.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I'm a big fan of John's. I
Speaker 2: consider i'm a friend. I've had him on for years.
Speaker 2: You know, when the SEC filed the lawsuit against Ripple,
Speaker 2: we were doing interviews talking about this and it was
Speaker 2: crazy times on there against the regime.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's he would be a great because I agree.
Speaker 1: You know, you bring up a good point too. I mean,
Speaker 1: we only think of certain regulation because these big bills
Speaker 1: that we're talking about can only be passed at the
Speaker 1: federal level. But I think there's a lot to be
Speaker 1: set on the local levels, on the state level as well,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, we're at least as a middle
Speaker 1: class tax paying citizen, you know, you have a little
Speaker 1: bit more leverage to make an impact, and I think
Speaker 1: there's something to be said for that from a crypto perspective.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, we're seeing a lot of
Speaker 2: states are moving, sometimes faster than the federal government. A
Speaker 2: lot of them have already set up the ability is
Speaker 2: set up excuse me, bitcoin reserves where they're investing in
Speaker 2: bigcin ETFs. I think Wisconsin, Arizona and a bunch of others. Wyoming,
Speaker 2: of course, has been a big timeader in cryptos. So
Speaker 2: it's great to see the states be proactive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I'm forgetting his last name. I've had I
Speaker 1: had him on, Dennis. You probably know he's he's a
Speaker 1: big advocate for bitcoin, but he's he's trying to get
Speaker 1: His mission is to get the left on board with
Speaker 1: bitcoin's technology and mission. And I'm forgetting his last name.
Speaker 1: I'm very upset with myself.
Speaker 2: I've had him on and I'm forgetting his same from
Speaker 2: a fund, right.
Speaker 1: Yes, so soci Action fund that he is a great
Speaker 1: guy and he refuses to say what what side he
Speaker 1: leans on, but he's he's highly intelligent, and he he
Speaker 1: is definitely you know to your point this this should
Speaker 1: not be a bipartisan issue, and he's He's simply said,
Speaker 1: this is a technology. This is uh, this is a
Speaker 1: function that we should all be advocating for simply because
Speaker 1: we're you know, most of this country, whether you're a
Speaker 1: Democrat or Republican, you're probably in debt because that's where
Speaker 1: the government wants you. So just just focus on this
Speaker 1: and figure it out. You know, this shouldn't be because
Speaker 1: because Trump is championing it that now everybody is against it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so ridiculous that this became a political issue.
Speaker 2: Like I still look back and like, this is so stupid.
Speaker 2: Imagine we did this with the Internet, right, and the
Speaker 2: Internet's a republican they are a democratic. What come on, man,
Speaker 2: this is so stupid.
Speaker 1: That's what we should do. We should just say Instagram, Facebook,
Speaker 1: these are this is all naga, and then everybody gets
Speaker 1: off of it. It's just like all right, perf. Now
Speaker 1: society is healing.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, I'm so happy we're moving passes and a
Speaker 2: lot of it is behind us. They're still a little bit,
Speaker 2: you know, but I think as we get the Clarity
Speaker 2: Act pass and these institutions come in, you know, they'll
Speaker 2: kind of wipe the slate clean because it will just
Speaker 2: be like, Hey, you've been with us for twenty years, John,
Speaker 2: We now offer a crypto. Would you like to invest?
Speaker 2: And it'll be just that, not it's political. It's this
Speaker 2: and that and X and Michael Saylor just would you
Speaker 2: like to get access to the US.
Speaker 1: It's a shame, you know, and I think also social media,
Speaker 1: the Internet has pulled out so much that we you know,
Speaker 1: the banks set are in cahoots with the government, and
Speaker 1: then the government is now you know, Bitcoin's initial mission.
Speaker 1: You know, when you read the white paper of Satoshi,
Speaker 1: it's it was supposed to be not government. I mean,
Speaker 1: these were created by hardcore libertarians that were against government.
Speaker 1: Now you've got government. Now you got people posing in
Speaker 1: pictures with the Trump's Eric Trump, you know, Donald Trump
Speaker 1: Junior own billions in bitcoin. I mean, there's there's something
Speaker 1: to be said about what's happening and also what the
Speaker 1: initial mission was and when we have to move with it,
Speaker 1: because let's face it, you cannot move this forward meaningfully
Speaker 1: in today's climate without regulation, without the government. Now how
Speaker 1: much government involvement that's you know, that's becomes a question
Speaker 1: of debate where I can start to get a little
Speaker 1: like eh, but but we do we do need the involvement.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna, you know, be that person that's like,
Speaker 1: how do you move something forward as a liberty Harry,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I love that get the government out
Speaker 1: of my life. I'm all for it, but how you know,
Speaker 1: And like I said, I'm also an advocate of tradfi
Speaker 1: meets crypto, So how can I how can I be
Speaker 1: a libertarian but also a champion of that? And that's
Speaker 1: that's kind of where we sit now. There's so much
Speaker 1: that's moving so quickly. It's hard not to be a
Speaker 1: hypocrite at some point in how you think because you
Speaker 1: don't know what to think anymore. It changes so quickly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty wild, and it's so different from the
Speaker 2: early days when bigcoin was started. And look, I don't
Speaker 2: know if I should say this, but it feels like
Speaker 2: Bitcoin is being taken over and it's no longer what
Speaker 2: maybe the vision of the white paper is right. Don't
Speaker 2: get me wrong. I think it's still a great investment,
Speaker 2: still hard money, but it's not Peter peer cash. You
Speaker 2: know how about that?
Speaker 1: I do? I will say there's a part of me
Speaker 1: that feels it's losing its value and it's so sad
Speaker 1: to say this because of the voices behind it. I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna not all, not all of them, but there
Speaker 1: is it's losing a little bit of its of its
Speaker 1: luster because it's it's too it's like oversaturated, if that
Speaker 1: makes any sense. And there I don't you know, you
Speaker 1: hear things like z cash coming in, you hear things
Speaker 1: like quantum computing coming in, and I I do fear
Speaker 1: for what's what's coming. I'm I've been an investor in
Speaker 1: bitcoin for a very long time now and I and
Speaker 1: I'm saying this so I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna have to see how this all plays out, man.
Speaker 2: But certainly out of bitcoin came the blockchain revolution and
Speaker 2: I think we're seeing that on fold and uh, that's
Speaker 2: going to change the economy the world. And uh, you know,
Speaker 2: we talked about the convergence with AI. So it's pretty
Speaker 2: wild and it's it's gonna be fascinating to see what's
Speaker 2: built once the Clarity Act is.
Speaker 1: Up one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: Before we jump into rapid questions, you know, tell us
Speaker 2: a bit about your podcast and the type of guests
Speaker 2: you interview. Is it crypto focused or all tech focus?
Speaker 2: That type of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do crypto and kind of emerging markets so
Speaker 1: and and financial as well. And I just I launched
Speaker 1: it because I felt like so many conversations around these
Speaker 1: these sectors were either so overly technical or just overly sensational,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to create a space where, you know,
Speaker 1: we could have thoughtful, honest conversations with these people shaping
Speaker 1: the industry. And I'm a huge proponent of the human aspect.
Speaker 1: So I know you're very familiar with Eleanor Tarrett. Her
Speaker 1: and John Deaton were actually my inaugural episode for the podcast,
Speaker 1: and you know, she she opened up about her sobriety
Speaker 1: for the first time I'm on my podcast. John Deeton,
Speaker 1: he literally is an open book. I mean his book
Speaker 1: already kind of goes into the details of his his
Speaker 1: very hard upbringing. But he's he's just you can ask
Speaker 1: him any questions and he'll he'll tell you everything. And
Speaker 1: I think that's that's very important when we're exploring, you know,
Speaker 1: these these things, to explore the bigger picture and and
Speaker 1: see who's building and why you're building. There's there's so
Speaker 1: much to be said for the one what people do,
Speaker 1: because that, to me is what sustains.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what are two great guests to have for
Speaker 2: your inaugural episode? Both great folks and I know them
Speaker 2: both well. And Ellie's not far from me. She doesn't
Speaker 2: look far for me, and we bumped each other all
Speaker 2: the time, and we've been following each other since boy
Speaker 2: I think Fox started covering like the SEC and their
Speaker 2: attack against Crypto against her, So it's the journey has
Speaker 2: been incredible and it has been great to you know,
Speaker 2: work with the two of them as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she really is one of the most refreshing people
Speaker 1: I have ever met in this industry, and I'm happy
Speaker 1: to have her in my corner. And she's just I'm
Speaker 1: really like, talk about trust and reporting. I mean that
Speaker 1: that is a girl to follow if you're just getting
Speaker 1: into this industry and trying to learn, especially around policy
Speaker 1: of course, but she's just everything she posts, I'm like, yep, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's what I'm gonna pay attention to for sure.
Speaker 2: All Right. I mean, I got some wrap up questions
Speaker 2: here for you. If you could create your own metaverse,
Speaker 2: will the theme be good?
Speaker 1: Question? If I were designing a metaverse, I mean, based
Speaker 1: on what I do in my pure from probably center
Speaker 1: around the idea of kind of a global intellectual salon
Speaker 1: and getting back to what we were discussing earlier about
Speaker 1: this inpert this need for in person. You know, if
Speaker 1: you think of a digital environment where entrepreneurs, investors, policy
Speaker 1: makers from all over the world get together for almost
Speaker 1: like an eye connections, but you have it in the metaverse,
Speaker 1: and you have it for meaningful conversations, collaboration. You know,
Speaker 1: if it's one thing I've learned from hosting dinners and
Speaker 1: salons in real life, it's that it's really incredible ideas
Speaker 1: often come from bringing interesting people together in the same room.
Speaker 1: So if you have a metaverse version of that and
Speaker 1: you allow people from anywhere in the world to participate
Speaker 1: in those types of exchanges, that would be really interesting.
Speaker 2: Very cool. Rapid fire questions, favorite food, Italian, favorite musician
Speaker 2: or band.
Speaker 1: I love EDM and I think David Ghetta is probably my.
Speaker 2: Favorite favorite movie.
Speaker 1: Oh, favorite movie. I'm a big fan of any Christmas Carol.
Speaker 1: Love a good redemption story.
Speaker 2: Favorite book.
Speaker 1: Favorite book would be Unbroken by Laura Hill and Brand
Speaker 1: and it's that's I'm I'm obsessed with anything World War two,
Speaker 1: So it's a great book.
Speaker 2: And when you're not working, what are you doing for
Speaker 2: a fun?
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not working. I always walk at least six
Speaker 1: or seven miles every single day.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: I make it a point to step away from my
Speaker 1: laptop for just it helps me where. You know, occasionally
Speaker 1: I like to find a good dive bar with good karaeok.
Speaker 2: Nice. I miss going to dive bars. I love memories.
Speaker 1: Rare occasion, but I love it.
Speaker 2: Now you're a parent now, and now as a parent,
Speaker 2: I can't do.
Speaker 1: I love you know, everything is such a I just
Speaker 1: brought my son to the beach for the time yesterday
Speaker 1: because you know, here in Charleston, it's right there, and
Speaker 1: it's such a you know, the things you have to
Speaker 1: pack and the everything is such a process. Now I remember,
Speaker 1: like just to walk out the door, get in your
Speaker 1: car and go somewhere. I had no idea that that
Speaker 1: was a LUXURIANX.
Speaker 2: Right, tell me about it. Oh my gosh. I now
Speaker 2: have the beach cart. So if I'm pulling this like
Speaker 2: heavy thing and I'm dying out there and it's so
Speaker 2: hard to pull in this hand because it's like.
Speaker 1: You know, everything's to work. I'm looking at my arms
Speaker 1: the other day and it looks like I'm lifting and
Speaker 1: I'm just nope, just just my son.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh man, uh well, I guess you different phases
Speaker 2: of life, right, and and yeah, that's how it goes, Amanda,
Speaker 2: great stuff. Enjoyed the conversation, and I'm looking forward to
Speaker 2: having you back on and possibly us collaborating and interviews
Speaker 2: and things along those lines. So that's a bit of
Speaker 2: a hint to the get my listeners and yours. But
Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining me, Thank you so
Speaker 2: much for having me. This is a lot of thank
Speaker 2: you so much for tuning in. Please hit the like button,
Speaker 2: subscribe if you haven't as yet. If you're listening on
Speaker 2: a podcast platform such as Spotify or Apple, please follow
Speaker 2: and leave a five star rating. Thank you so much.