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<v Speaker 1>The most exciting part of this to me is, and

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<v Speaker 1>again some of our Democrat friends could disagree with this

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit, but these bills are going to be

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<v Speaker 1>written from Main Street to Washington, not from Washington, DC

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<v Speaker 1>to Main Street. For far too long, we've had bureaucracies

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<v Speaker 1>literally drafting the legislation.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode is brought to you by Uphold, which is

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<v Speaker 1>So this is a.

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<v Speaker 2>please visit the link in the description.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm your host, Tony Edward, and joining me today is

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<v Speaker 2>Congressman Tom Emmer, who's the majority whip of the United

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<v Speaker 2>States House of Representatives. Congressman Emmer, Great to see you.

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<v Speaker 1>Great to see you, Tony.

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<v Speaker 2>Congressman. I have a big smile on my face because

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<v Speaker 2>we've been talking for what is it three four years now,

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<v Speaker 2>with all the madness that happened on their di Biden

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<v Speaker 2>and administration, we saw how the elections played out. Looking back,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, what are your thoughts on how this all

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<v Speaker 2>played out?

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<v Speaker 1>For crypto and much more? Well, it is for much more,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's I think the American people. The unique

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<v Speaker 1>part about this last election is they had an opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>to know what the one choice, what the economy was

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<v Speaker 1>like under one choice, because they saw that for four

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<v Speaker 1>years at least up until it was interrupted by the pandemic,

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<v Speaker 1>and then they got to see what the economy looked

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<v Speaker 1>like under the last administration for four years, and it

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<v Speaker 1>was a pretty easy choice. Now what came with that?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, the attacks on President Trump using the court

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<v Speaker 1>system are really not that far away from the attacks

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<v Speaker 1>on the crypto industry and the digital assets industry by

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<v Speaker 1>one Gary Gensler and others through the SEC and the

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<v Speaker 1>Executive agency apparatus. It's really interesting to see that the

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<v Speaker 1>mainstream media tony of which you are not part of it,

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<v Speaker 1>thank god, they're desperately trying to spin stories about the economy,

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<v Speaker 1>about Trump, about well, guess what. The economy is going

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<v Speaker 1>to take a little bit of time, but it's coming back.

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<v Speaker 1>We've solved the immigration crisis at least for now. We're

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<v Speaker 1>going to have to have long term solutions for this

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<v Speaker 1>so that we have people coming to this country because

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<v Speaker 1>we've got jobs. Right, and speaking of jobs, the digital

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<v Speaker 1>asset community is here to stay right this new administration,

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<v Speaker 1>Paul Atkins just being confirmed the other day, it shows

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<v Speaker 1>that we are open for business. They're dropping all of

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<v Speaker 1>the misguided lawsuits and legal action against these different entities.

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<v Speaker 1>You remember, over the course of four years, Gary Gensler

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<v Speaker 1>at the SEC used to say, come on in, my

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<v Speaker 1>door open, and when you'd leave, you'd be delivered a

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<v Speaker 1>summon shortly after that or some other legal document telling

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<v Speaker 1>you that you are now under scrutiny from Gary and

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<v Speaker 1>his colleagues. That's over. That's over. I think we all

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<v Speaker 1>recognize that it's time to get back to what makes

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<v Speaker 1>this country great, which is innovation. It's innovation, it's taking risk. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we want to make sure that people are protected, but

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<v Speaker 1>let's not protect people to the point where they're not

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<v Speaker 1>able to do anything. I mean, it was a stark choice,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think the results speak for themselves. I'll just

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<v Speaker 1>add one more thing, because you know how I feel

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<v Speaker 1>about the digital assets community in the crypto industry. It's

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<v Speaker 1>not partisan. It's not about Republicans or Democrats. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think that vote last November was as much about people,

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<v Speaker 1>just ordinary people in America saying I've had enough of

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<v Speaker 1>this finger pointing, I've had enough of this blame game.

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<v Speaker 1>I want you guys to get something done for once,

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<v Speaker 1>and I don't care what your political stripe is. I

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<v Speaker 1>want you to be doing the right thing for the

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<v Speaker 1>right reasons. And again, I think that is beginning to happen.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well put and you know, adding tonally, I know

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<v Speaker 2>from friends and family, both Democrats and Republicans, they are

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<v Speaker 2>involved in crypto in one way or the other, and

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<v Speaker 2>they're not thinking about it politically. But unfortunately Elizabeth Warren

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<v Speaker 2>Gary Ginster made a political in the Alasta you know regime.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think Gary Ginster will be working in government again.

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<v Speaker 2>I see him popping up out of all of a

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<v Speaker 2>sudden talking about crypto.

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<v Speaker 1>I hope not. I mean, I just got back from

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<v Speaker 1>a trip to California to see some of our friends,

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<v Speaker 1>and I understand that there are many in the digital

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<v Speaker 1>assets community who have pledged they will not hire any talent,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's a ton of it at M I t

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<v Speaker 1>unless than until Gary Genslers fired. Carrie Ginstler really proved

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<v Speaker 1>himself to be one of the most disingenuous or more

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<v Speaker 1>directly put, dishonest individuals that we dealt with in the

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<v Speaker 1>last administration. I don't know how he thinks he can

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<v Speaker 1>move from a black cape to a different cape overnight,

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<v Speaker 1>right that he can be one person before he went

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<v Speaker 1>into the administration, and that was when he was teaching

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<v Speaker 1>this very subject to students, M I T. Then he

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<v Speaker 1>becomes Darth Vader of the you know, the evil Empire

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<v Speaker 1>that was the last administration where he was carrying the

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<v Speaker 1>water for Elizabeth Warren and Shared Brown and others. That

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<v Speaker 1>just they're deathly afraid Tony, and you know this, this

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<v Speaker 1>is your message all the time. They're deathly afraid of

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<v Speaker 1>what decentralization offers. It offers Tony and Tom the ability

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<v Speaker 1>to do business directly with one another and not have

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<v Speaker 1>the long arm of the government or in this case,

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<v Speaker 1>the Gary Genslers of this world getting in between our

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<v Speaker 1>transactions and trying to frustrate our ability to innovate and

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<v Speaker 1>create and provide for the next generation. I hope he

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<v Speaker 1>is never employed in an executive branch type function again.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, if he has, I'd be concerned even having

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<v Speaker 1>him employed by the National Park System because I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know that he's giving me. I don't know that he'd

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<v Speaker 1>be giving me the honest advice on my trails.

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<v Speaker 2>Well put, now, President Trump promise has made, promises kept.

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<v Speaker 2>He's done a lot so far for the crypto industry.

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<v Speaker 2>He recently signed into law the first crypto build signed

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<v Speaker 2>into law the repeal of the IRS DeFi rule. Tell

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<v Speaker 2>us about this and how significant it was.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the IRS rule, which was finalized in last December.

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<v Speaker 1>December of twenty twenty four, was following or pursuant to

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<v Speaker 1>the Portman Amendment in the twenty twenty one Infrastructure Bill.

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<v Speaker 1>And I should have said the infamous Portman Amendment in

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<v Speaker 1>the twenty twenty one Infrastructure Bill. It's time that these

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<v Speaker 1>misguided rules are gone. And I mean, this is, like

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<v Speaker 1>you say, promises made promises. Capt Trump told us this

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<v Speaker 1>is what he was going to do if he was elected,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is exactly what he's going to do. The

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<v Speaker 1>important thing here, though, to me, goes back to the

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<v Speaker 1>beginning of our conversation where we're talking about it not

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<v Speaker 1>being a partisan issue. You realize that this cra received

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<v Speaker 1>seventy six Democrats, almost one hundred Democrats voted for it

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<v Speaker 1>in the House, and you had almost twenty Democrats voting

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<v Speaker 1>for it in the sentence. So, like I say, last

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<v Speaker 1>November was more about, hey, let's get stuff done. Stop

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<v Speaker 1>wearing different colored jerseys and running into each other. We

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<v Speaker 1>don't mind the debate, but you gotta get something done.

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<v Speaker 1>And what this shows is we're starting to move in

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<v Speaker 1>that direction. Not only do we have a president who

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<v Speaker 1>made a promise and he's keeping that promise, but we

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<v Speaker 1>have a House and a Senate the Congress that is

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<v Speaker 1>actually starting to work together to get these misguided policies

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<v Speaker 1>out of the way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely so, Congressman number do you foresee this being

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<v Speaker 2>the start of getting bills through and signing to law

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<v Speaker 2>this year? Because the Market Structure and stable Coin bill

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<v Speaker 2>are the meat and potatoes, right, everyone's waiting on those.

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<v Speaker 2>What can you tell us there about the timeline and

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<v Speaker 2>meeting President Trump's you know, his timeline of get it

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<v Speaker 2>to my desk before the August recess.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I've heard a bunch about this, and obviously I'm

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<v Speaker 1>in the middle of it. We've got a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>great shares in the Senate, in the House that are

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<v Speaker 1>moving things at Tim Scott over in the Senate in

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<v Speaker 1>french Hill. Here in the House, the Genius I Act,

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<v Speaker 1>the stable Coin version of the bill, the Senate bill,

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<v Speaker 1>Bill Haggerty's bill is moving. It got out of committee.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not entirely in alignment. I mean, there are some

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<v Speaker 1>differences between the House and the Senate. The Senate bill,

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<v Speaker 1>stable Coin Bill, we've seen the Market Structure Bill. We

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<v Speaker 1>don't have text yet, but the President, you might remember,

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<v Speaker 1>at the Crypto Summit that was held in the White

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<v Speaker 1>House a few weeks ago, I said he wanted both

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<v Speaker 1>the Market Structure Bill and the stable Coin Bill, and

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<v Speaker 1>I will tell you that he also wants my prohibition

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<v Speaker 1>on central bank digital currencies, which he promised to outlaw

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<v Speaker 1>during the campaign. He wants those on his desk by

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<v Speaker 1>the August recess. So that should give you a good

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<v Speaker 1>timeline as to what's going to happen in the House

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<v Speaker 1>and the Senate. I expect we're going to start moving

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<v Speaker 1>the two bills in the in the House very soon,

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<v Speaker 1>and then it's going to take seven senators over in

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<v Speaker 1>the In the Senate, we're going to have to have

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<v Speaker 1>seven Democrats that vote with us. But the twenty that

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<v Speaker 1>voted for the cra that we just talked about, that

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<v Speaker 1>bodes well for getting both of these, both of these

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<v Speaker 1>bills through the process.

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<v Speaker 2>Comains memory, do you think we're going to have kind

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<v Speaker 2>of as far as you know, how old I am.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember the nineteen ninety six bill, which was amazing

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<v Speaker 2>for the Internet. It opened up tons of innovation and prosperity,

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<v Speaker 2>and we had Google and Amazon, all these great companies

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<v Speaker 2>come out of that. Are we about to have that

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<v Speaker 2>moment here? When these bills are passed, it opens up

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<v Speaker 2>innovation and jobs and wealth creation and much more.

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<v Speaker 1>What these will do. And let's make sure that everybody

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<v Speaker 1>that's paying attention to your podcast understands they should not

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<v Speaker 1>expect either of these bills to be absolutely perfect. We

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<v Speaker 1>need them to be as good as they can possibly be,

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<v Speaker 1>because what they're going to provide, Tony is the ground rules.

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<v Speaker 1>They're going to tell everyone who wants to innovate and

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<v Speaker 1>create here in the United States of America, this is

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<v Speaker 1>what you can expect so they can plan so they're

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<v Speaker 1>not wasting millions of dollars on lawyers fighting with misguided bureaucrats.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is Congress saying, all right, look, we're stepping in.

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<v Speaker 1>We're telling you here the ground rules if you want

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<v Speaker 1>to if you want to create stable coins and utilize

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<v Speaker 1>that dollar back stable coins, this is what it has

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<v Speaker 1>to look like. Put the guidelines on it so people

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<v Speaker 1>can predict and plan and do all the things necessary

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<v Speaker 1>to start new ventures. The same same thing with the

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<v Speaker 1>Market Structure Bill. The Market Structure Bill. It's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>twofold for me. It creates a playing field where people

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<v Speaker 1>understand who their regulator is, so you're not being overly

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<v Speaker 1>regulated by every single darn regulator in the federal government,

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<v Speaker 1>which they all seem to want a piece of it.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's make sure that people know who they're dealing

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<v Speaker 1>with in the government, what it is they have to

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<v Speaker 1>provide to the government and to the public, so that

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<v Speaker 1>we can allow them to get moving. The most exciting

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<v Speaker 1>part of this to me is, and again some of

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<v Speaker 1>our Democrat friends could disagree with this a little bit,

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<v Speaker 1>but these bills are going to be written from main

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<v Speaker 1>Street to Washington, not from Washington, d C. To mainstream.

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<v Speaker 1>For far too long, we've had bureaucracies literally drafting the legislation.

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<v Speaker 1>And I learned this firsthand in the last Congress when

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<v Speaker 1>I was getting a little frustrated and I realized, well,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the reasons is because the FED has staff

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<v Speaker 1>loaned to the House Committee, which is great, but the

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<v Speaker 1>Fed has their own view of these things. I want

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<v Speaker 1>the entrepreneur's view, I want the innovator's view. I want

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<v Speaker 1>the view from main Street where you're trying to create,

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<v Speaker 1>not from Washington, d C. Where you're trying to regulate.

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<v Speaker 2>And to your point, having the crypto industry weigh in,

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<v Speaker 2>are you for seeing that specific agencies which you know

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<v Speaker 2>are going to play a critical role here, such as

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<v Speaker 2>the SEC and the CFDC, they're going to weigh in

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<v Speaker 2>as well. Maybe Paul Atkins will work with Congress to

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<v Speaker 2>get some sort of structure in for securities or non securities.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, you've got our cryptos are in his

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<v Speaker 1>able Deputy Beau Hinds. They're weighing in. Obviously, they're kind

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<v Speaker 1>of a what would you call it, They're kind of

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<v Speaker 1>a the circuit that things are going into. You've got Adkins,

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<v Speaker 1>you're going to have the CFTC, you're going to have

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<v Speaker 1>the FDIIC, all of these entities. From the Trump perspective

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<v Speaker 1>now right, not from what was yesterday, but from the

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<v Speaker 1>perspective that we need this exciting new twenty first century

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<v Speaker 1>finance developing and blossoming right here in the United States

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<v Speaker 1>of America, much like we allowed the Internet to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>As you referenced after the nineteen ninety six law, it's

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<v Speaker 1>we can become victims of our own need to regulate

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<v Speaker 1>and restrict We've got to open it up. The best

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<v Speaker 1>innovation comes when people are free to try things, to

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<v Speaker 1>think outside the box, and do things that other people

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<v Speaker 1>said could never happen. It's we're getting back to that.

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<v Speaker 1>That is a benefit of the new Trump administration. But

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<v Speaker 1>the people you're talking about have been chosen by Trump

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<v Speaker 1>because the goal is to open this up and allow

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<v Speaker 1>this innovation and creation to occur again.

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<v Speaker 2>And in regards to the stable Coin Bill, is there

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<v Speaker 2>more of an urgency there because of its geopolitical implications?

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<v Speaker 2>For example, helping to maintain the world reserve currency, which

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<v Speaker 2>is the US dollar because US dollar back stable coins

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<v Speaker 2>can be used by different companies even outside the United States,

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<v Speaker 2>and those stable coin issues in their reserves will have

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<v Speaker 2>to buy US treasuries. Is there a higher level of

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<v Speaker 2>urgency for that?

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<v Speaker 1>Not for me? I know in the Senate, yes, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean they're looking at it as the stable Coin Bill is.

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<v Speaker 1>At least this is what I've been led to believe.

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<v Speaker 1>They think that's the one that beats to move right away.

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<v Speaker 1>I can tell you that my chairman, at least up

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<v Speaker 1>till now, is saying you don't get one without the other.

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<v Speaker 1>But to your point, I mean the excitement around a

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<v Speaker 1>dollar back stage coin is all about shoring up the

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<v Speaker 1>reserve currency status at the US dollar and imagine a

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<v Speaker 1>world where we can export US dollars, which is essentially

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<v Speaker 1>what we'll be doing. But as french Hill would tell you,

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<v Speaker 1>because he's told me, the problem is without a market

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<v Speaker 1>structure Bill, you're missing part of the equation. People need

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<v Speaker 1>to know what the rules are. It isn't just about

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<v Speaker 1>a stable coin and who's creating it. It's really about

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<v Speaker 1>how we're developing digital assets. What's a commodity, what's a security,

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<v Speaker 1>what's a what's currency? Right? A dollar back stable coin literally,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to just imagine wouldn't just be currency, It

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<v Speaker 1>could be part of a security. So you need the

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<v Speaker 1>you need the market structure Bill. I tend to agree

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<v Speaker 1>with french Hill, you can do both at the same time.

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<v Speaker 1>And I understand where the Senate's coming from, and we'll

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<v Speaker 1>see that's why this government was set up this way, right,

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<v Speaker 1>because one person isn't necessarily right, and you got to

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<v Speaker 1>have the different ideas. You got to have the tension

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<v Speaker 1>between the two bodies, and that way you get the

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<v Speaker 1>best results. So I'm confident that regardless of how it

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<v Speaker 1>ends up, we're getting both of them. Yeah, that's a

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<v Speaker 1>great point.

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<v Speaker 2>The two bills dovetailed together because if you want to

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<v Speaker 2>issue a stable coin, well which blockchains can you issue

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<v Speaker 2>them on? You need the clarity from the market instructure

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<v Speaker 2>to tell you that great point. Now there's also the

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<v Speaker 2>talks of setting up a bitcoin reserve and a digital stockpile.

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<v Speaker 2>A congress member, I'm fascinated by this because I feel

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<v Speaker 2>it's like another Breton Woods moment after World War Two.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course gold US dollar bitcoin being used by different

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<v Speaker 2>central banks and governments around the world. What are you

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<v Speaker 2>hearing there and what's the likelihood of this getting passed?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean the President Trump last month already sign

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<v Speaker 1>an executive order that creates a strategic Bitcoin Reserve and

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<v Speaker 1>a digital stockpile. Both both are going to hold, are

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<v Speaker 1>going to hold on to, or be based on seized

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<v Speaker 1>crypto assets. And the executive order also directed relevant agencies

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<v Speaker 1>to investigate ways that we can bolster the reserve and

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<v Speaker 1>the stockpile without spending tax payer dollars. So, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it couldn't be a more clear statement as to what

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<v Speaker 1>they expect. I think the real question there is it's

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<v Speaker 1>an executive order. The agencies are going to get to

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<v Speaker 1>work on what is necessary and what is possible. But

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<v Speaker 1>Congress at some point has to look an executive order

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<v Speaker 1>like this, Tony, and how do we turn that into

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<v Speaker 1>federal code. Because what we don't want to see happen

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<v Speaker 1>is this administration is crypto friendly and is putting this

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<v Speaker 1>out there to move us in the direction of twenty

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<v Speaker 1>first century financial services. We don't need the next administration

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<v Speaker 1>coming in much like we saw with the last one

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<v Speaker 1>and suddenly pulling the rug out from underneath everybody that's

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<v Speaker 1>doing these things. It's I think it's a little different

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<v Speaker 1>when the granted when it's a bitcoin a strategic bitcoin reserve,

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<v Speaker 1>as opposed to when it's some of the other executive

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<v Speaker 1>orders he's done. But I really do think there's a

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<v Speaker 1>place for Congress to get involved in this and make

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<v Speaker 1>sure that it lasts and grows as opposed to it's

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<v Speaker 1>here today and gone tomorrow. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Great point. So I'm assuming David Sachs and his team

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<v Speaker 2>they're going to try to find the revenue revenue neutral

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<v Speaker 2>avenue to be able to facilitate this and then pitch

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<v Speaker 2>it to Congress to get that into some sort of law.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we've got members doing it too, But yes, David

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<v Speaker 1>Sachs and Bohinz and his entire group are going to

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<v Speaker 1>be providing a lot of the substance for this. But

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<v Speaker 1>it's interesting. We've got nick I get Choose carrying a bill,

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<v Speaker 1>We've got others that are looking at this in more details.

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<v Speaker 1>So look for a what a partnership between the executive

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<v Speaker 1>branch and the legislative branch to get this thing done now.

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<v Speaker 1>And by the way, I'm one of those that no,

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<v Speaker 1>we're not going to have taxpayers buying bitcoin to put

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<v Speaker 1>in the strategic reserve, but there are ways I imagine

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<v Speaker 1>that are going to be a revenue neutral to do that.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Now a congressmanmember.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the big things that are being discussed and

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<v Speaker 2>that's still in the process, is banks being able to

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<v Speaker 2>fully participate in crypto. We've had to repeal a SAB

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<v Speaker 2>one two one. The FDIC and the OCC have loosen restrictions.

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<v Speaker 2>The FED just last week made some updates. But I

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<v Speaker 2>saw Senator Cynthia Alumbus and some other folks like Katon

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<v Speaker 2>Lung said it's kind of lip service. They haven't fully

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<v Speaker 2>removed the restrictions they have had over the years. That

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<v Speaker 2>seems to be the head of the snake here. What

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<v Speaker 2>do you hear in that front? And when could they

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<v Speaker 2>fully open things up?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean, this is going to be an ongoing process. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>There were a lot of land mines that were buried

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<v Speaker 1>by the last administration that we're just going to have

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<v Speaker 1>to go after one at a time. But the Trump

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<v Speaker 1>administration is working on, I would say, over time to

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<v Speaker 1>remove these Biden era red tape type land mines that

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<v Speaker 1>were planted, and they're trying to reverse obviously the law

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<v Speaker 1>fair against the crypto community. When I was at the

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<v Speaker 1>Crypto summit, I loved one of the crypto folks well

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<v Speaker 1>known that said, you know, wow, we're in the White House.

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<v Speaker 1>A year ago, if you would have told me the

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<v Speaker 1>crypto industry would be sitting in the White House at

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<v Speaker 1>a crypto summit, I wouldn't have believed you. I would

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<v Speaker 1>have believed we were more likely to be in jail. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>So the Trump administration is working to get that stuff

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<v Speaker 1>behind us so the crypto innovation I can thrive. And

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<v Speaker 1>that the I got to add, it's not just that

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<v Speaker 1>the crypto administration can thrive it's so the existing financial

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<v Speaker 1>system can develop alongside of it. Right. We don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to kill one at the expense of the other. We

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<v Speaker 1>need them both. We have the best markets in the

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<v Speaker 1>world in this country, and our two tier legacy banking

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<v Speaker 1>system and payment system has work beautifully. But it's now

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<v Speaker 1>time for digital. You don't want to lose what you

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<v Speaker 1>already have. You want to bring that into the twenty

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<v Speaker 1>first century at the same time. So I just believe

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<v Speaker 1>that digital assets is going to offer users a choice

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<v Speaker 1>to engage in peer to peer transactions like I was

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<v Speaker 1>talking about with Tony and Tom and do those online.

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<v Speaker 1>But there's always, in my opinion, going to be a

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<v Speaker 1>need for intermediaries like banks, and we've got to protect those.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, comes van Emma. Thank you so much. I know

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<v Speaker 2>you got to run and I appreciate it. And hopefully

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<v Speaker 2>our next conversation will be the bills have been I

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<v Speaker 2>have been sitting on President Trump's desk and you know

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<v Speaker 2>we got we're ready for signatures.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I would love to be doing a victory dance

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<v Speaker 1>come August.

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<v Speaker 2>Awesome, Thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Tony, take care