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See for details. 25 00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:05.040 In twenty seventeen, when a trans woman disappears from the village. 26 00:01:05.239 --> 00:01:06.319 Alarm bells go. 27 00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:08.680 Off, girls go missing, girls end up. 28 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:15.439 Dead, so her friends decide enough is enough. This is 29 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:18.359 the story of what happens when sex workers and trans 30 00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:21.400 people stand up to fight the system that failed them. 31 00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:25.159 I'm justin Laning and This is The Village Season two, 32 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:28.760 available now on the CBC, listen, app and everywhere you'll 33 00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:30.000 get your podcasts. 34 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:33.640 Every day, more people are saying yes to change and 35 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:37.000 to smart new ideas that put them first. So meet 36 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:40.560 fair Square, the real estate brokerage where sellers save thousands 37 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:44.599 in commission, buyers get cash back, and experienced real estate 38 00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:48.760 professionals support you at every step. If you're open to change, 39 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:53.200 you've got a choice. Fair Square the new way home Yours. 40 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:57.280 Learn more at fairsquare dot ca. Fair Square Group. Realty 41 00:01:57.439 --> 00:01:58.599 restrictions apply. 42 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:01.599 Block Telefnadian. 43 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:14.120 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 44 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:17.240 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 45 00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:24.599 written about them. Gaysey Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 46 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:28.360 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 47 00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:32.960 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 48 00:02:33.319 --> 00:02:48.080 journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good evening. On December twenty first, 49 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:52.120 nineteen seventy eight, John Wayne Gacy was arrested. Upon an 50 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:54.879 initial search of the crawl space beneath his ranch house 51 00:02:54.919 --> 00:02:58.560 in Norwood Park Township, Illinois, the authorities discovered the remains 52 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:02.280 of several bodies. The skeletal remains of twenty nine young 53 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:05.400 men were unearthed on Gaysey's property. Another four bodies were 54 00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:07.719 pulled from the river where Gaysey jumped them off the 55 00:03:07.719 --> 00:03:11.280 Smith Bridge in Shanahan, Illinois, bringing the body count to 56 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:14.960 thirty three total. In nineteen seventy eight, Gaysey held the 57 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:18.120 title of America's most prolific serial killer for the first time. 58 00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:21.479 In print, John Wayne Gacy Hunting a Predator contains the 59 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:24.919 police and other legal files covering the pursuit, arrest, and 60 00:03:25.039 --> 00:03:27.960 confession of Gaysey. The book that we're featuring this evening 61 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:32.000 is John Wayne Gacy Hunting a Predator, The Pursuit, Arrest 62 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:35.400 and Confession with my special guest, true crime filmmaker and 63 00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:38.400 author John Barowski. Welcome to the program, and thank you 64 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:40.719 very much for this interview. John Serowski. 65 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:42.800 Thank you for having me, Dan, It's a pleasure to 66 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:43.000 be on. 67 00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:45.919 Thank you very much. Thank you for joining us. Let's 68 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:48.719 talk about the forward to this book, how you came 69 00:03:48.759 --> 00:03:50.680 to be the author of this book, but talk about 70 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:54.439 your connection with Dahmer and your interest in serial killers. 71 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:56.240 How you came to that, as you explained in the 72 00:03:56.280 --> 00:03:57.280 forward of this book. 73 00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:00.400 Sure, So, when I was growing up, I had known 74 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:05.039 relatively little about serial killers. My background was always loving 75 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:09.719 horror films, so started off at the universal horror films 76 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:12.719 and then worked my way through slashers. And then when 77 00:04:12.759 --> 00:04:16.560 I was in high school, I decided, well, I'm interested 78 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:20.279 in horror films and makeup effects, so I started getting 79 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:23.680 into special makeup effects. I reached out to Dick Smith, 80 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:27.560 who did the makeup effects for The Exorcist and The 81 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:30.600 Godfather and many other classic films, you know, and then 82 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:32.759 he had gotten me in touch with someone who was 83 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:35.720 local near me in Chicago, and that's how I started 84 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:39.759 doing makeup effects. And then I had shot short films 85 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:42.279 on eight millimeter, which at the time that's what it 86 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:45.279 was before video. You know, you'd shoot, you'd send your 87 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:48.120 film into be developed, you'd get it back. And so 88 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:51.279 I was actually, you know, using my makeup creations in 89 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:53.920 these short films with my best friends, so I think 90 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:56.920 it was when I was probably either a senior in 91 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:00.360 high school or just after my senior year of highs school. 92 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:02.360 My best friend called me up and he said, you 93 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:04.759 got to come over. So I went over to his house. 94 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:08.600 And his father was a detective in Chicago when Dahmer 95 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:11.120 was arrested, and I believe it was ninety one, so 96 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:13.800 that would have just been when I graduated high school. 97 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:15.600 So he had said, you got to come over here, 98 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:17.560 and I went to his house and what my friend 99 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:22.160 thought was a mask catalog was actually the Dahmer file, 100 00:05:22.199 --> 00:05:25.079 which he found in his father's study, and it contained 101 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:29.920 Dahmer's brief confession, but it also contained photocopies of photos 102 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:32.839 that Dahmer took of his victims, heads on the sink, 103 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:36.439 with amplicated hands and body parts. And coming from a 104 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:39.639 background of horror films, when I had seen these, this 105 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:42.839 was real horror. It wasn't, you know, anything that was 106 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:46.199 made up. So I was shocked at these photos. You know, 107 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:49.240 the heads had the eyes open and the mouths were 108 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:51.800 open and just awful, you know, and I couldn't get 109 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:54.439 out of my head. So when I went into college, 110 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:57.399 I figured, well, from my first film Tech two class. 111 00:05:57.480 --> 00:06:00.560 What better to do than a short film on the dose, 112 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:04.279 including some of his confessions. So that was interesting. And 113 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:07.040 also when I was in college, I had to do 114 00:06:07.079 --> 00:06:10.040 a paper on the history of Chicago and I was 115 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:12.920 looking through this one book and they mentioned this castle 116 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:15.959 of AK Holmes, that this guy had built this nuge 117 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:19.160 building in the eighteen hundreds and rented rooms during the 118 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:21.759 World's Fair, and it was like a kind of murder 119 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:24.160 mansion from the mind of Edgar all of Pohand of 120 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:27.360 course that fascinated me because I've always been into lacabre, 121 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:31.000 but it wasn't really until I read Harold Checker's book Deranged. 122 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:36.560 Once I read Deranged, that really created HH Holmes as 123 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:40.319 a more fascinating character, given the fact that he went 124 00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:43.560 to medical school and graduated medical school, and he had 125 00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:46.399 three wives and he had mistresses, and it was his 126 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:49.000 own attorney at his trial. So I thought, Wow, this 127 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:52.560 isn't just some madman who designed this crazy building. This 128 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:55.399 was an emo genius. And the next thing was I 129 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:58.399 looked up why there wasn't ever a filmmate on AJ Holmes. 130 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:01.000 So that was my first film out of college. AJ 131 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:04.399 Holmes Americus a serial killer, and that began my interest 132 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:06.759 in serial killers. That was a big hit. So I 133 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:10.639 just continued making films on serial killers, and you know, 134 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:13.319 I thought, well, who could top h Holmes? And nobody 135 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:15.879 had made a film about Albert Fish, so that was 136 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:18.199 my second. And then I had done cans Ran and 137 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:21.439 then a film called serial Killer Culture, which examines why 138 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:25.759 people authors, musicians, and artists and collectors are fascinated by 139 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:28.079 serial killers. And I turned that to a TV show 140 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:31.720 called serial Killer Culture TV. And along the processes I'm 141 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:33.879 making my films, though, I think about, you know, I've 142 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:37.319 got all these original documents and research materials. Why don't 143 00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:40.079 I just put my research materials into books? And that's 144 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:42.839 how the books came about. So when you read my books, 145 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:45.160 they may have a forward by me or someone else, 146 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:50.079 but they're really the original case documents, you know. And 147 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:53.319 because there are so many books out on these serial killers, 148 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:55.879 I thought, what could be more interesting than reading the 149 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:59.399 words from the serial killers or the detectives attorneys in 150 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:02.839 PSYCHIAI just who chased and studied these serial killers. 151 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:06.000 You talk about the just Gaycy case, and you talk 152 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:08.600 about the confession that's included in your book. You say 153 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:12.519 that Gaysey retracted the confession and denied everything eventually, But 154 00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:17.519 you have these source documents photocopied and incredibly just with 155 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:20.800 the documents, just with the incredible photos that you've included, 156 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:24.680 things like Gaysey's birth certificate, amazing. All of these things 157 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:27.639 tell the story of John Wayne Gacy, at the time, 158 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:30.839 the most prolific serial killer in American history. And your 159 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:35.519 book includes information by the planes Police Department in Illinois 160 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:38.320 who tailed Gaysey for twenty four hours for ten days 161 00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:41.879 in December nineteen seventy eight, which led to his apprehension, trial, 162 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:46.159 and eventual execution. These documents are an excellent example of 163 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:50.360 true detective work, basically some of the best detective work 164 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:53.679 in history. This is all pre DNA typing as you write, 165 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:55.320 what is this book dedicated to? 166 00:08:55.600 --> 00:09:00.960 I dedicate the book to the Displays police force. We 167 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:05.120 had the kind of insight and kind of fore knowledge 168 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:10.320 to Okay, let's create a task force prehend this guy. 169 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:13.440 I mean, it's twofold. It's dedicated to the detectives who 170 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:16.919 brought him down, as well as the victims, which were unfortunate, 171 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:20.639 but it's really dedicated to the detectives who, without them 172 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:24.000 Gacy may have continued doing what he was doing obviously 173 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:26.639 as cross space was filled, and then he started throwing 174 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:29.919 bodies off the Smith Bridge and may have been caught eventually, 175 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:33.960 but the trying and true detective work of the Displays detectives. 176 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:38.159 I interviewed two of the former detectives, Mike Albrecht and 177 00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:42.240 Dave Hafmeister, and some of their stories kind of move 178 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:45.200 into the realm of absurdity. And this has all been 179 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:49.720 interesting lately. I recently had revisited Goodfellas it was re 180 00:09:49.720 --> 00:09:53.279 released them shown at a theater out here and actually 181 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:57.200 right near Displays where Gasey was brought down, the Pickwick Theater, 182 00:09:57.399 --> 00:09:59.960 and watching that throughout almost the entire movie, you're laughing 183 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:03.200 at the absurdity of this. Some of the aspects of 184 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:06.639 the Gaycy case are that absurd. I mean, these detectives 185 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:10.840 brought down probably the top five most world renowned serial 186 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:13.919 killers ever and they had to carry quarters in their 187 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:18.440 pockets because their CBS wouldn't even reach their headquarters at 188 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:21.440 the time period. I mean, you talk about impossible on 189 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:24.600 no cell phones, and they didn't even know what was 190 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:27.840 going on. They had no idea that all these bodies 191 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:30.919 were in the basement. They knew something was wrong because 192 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:34.399 they knew one of their residents and displays was missing. 193 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:37.799 He was last seen with this contractor Gaycy. So the 194 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:41.919 Lieutenant Cosens act it was really because of him creating 195 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:45.399 this task force of detectives. They created three different teams, 196 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:49.679 one to look at Gaysey's background, one to look at 197 00:10:49.799 --> 00:10:53.600 Rob Peace the missing victims background, and another one just 198 00:10:53.679 --> 00:10:59.320 to investigate Gaycy now. And then when they investigated Gaycy's background, 199 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:02.600 they saw these satomy charge in Waterloo, Iowa. They saw 200 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:05.360 there were two or three arrests in Chicago since he 201 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:09.200 had returned from Waterloo. Something's amiss here. And again I 202 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:11.919 dedicated to them because they are the true heroes and 203 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:14.399 they're so you know. Even when I met the dentist 204 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:17.600 who identified all of the well not all, but the 205 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:20.919 majority of the remains, doctor pablock, I said, you're a hero, 206 00:11:21.159 --> 00:11:25.000 and just like the detectives, they'll poopoo it. And I'm like, man, 207 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:27.799 you guys, really they're so you know, down to earth 208 00:11:27.879 --> 00:11:30.639 and good people. But in the end, they are the 209 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:32.399 true heroes of the story. 210 00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:36.799 You provide in the documents, though a very chilling story 211 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:39.639 of what happened with Rob Peaste. And then later you 212 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:43.440 provide the confession where Gacy freely talks about what happened 213 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:46.799 with Rob Peaste. But first you also include very very 214 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:49.759 interesting anybody knows this story. But again through the documents 215 00:11:49.799 --> 00:11:51.919 you can tell this story as well. Tell us the 216 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:55.519 story about the mother and Rob Peaste and the pharmacy 217 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:58.960 and this talk of the job and an interesting person 218 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:01.159 that came forward, which was Kim Buyers that worked in 219 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:04.360 the photo section of that pharmacy. Tell us this horrible story. 220 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:07.879 Because we don't have the opportunity through the confession or 221 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:10.919 through these documents to go through the thirty three victims, 222 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:14.320 the twenty or so that were identified in the end, 223 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:17.240 the nine that weren't. But let's go back to that 224 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:21.600 date and how Gacy was tripped up finally thankfully. 225 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:25.080 Yeah, they're all sad cases obviously, but you know Rob, 226 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:29.120 he's probably the sad just how it occurred and how 227 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:32.320 everything went down. So Rob Peace was a teenager who 228 00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:35.320 was working at Nisson Pharmacy and that was in this 229 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:37.720 planes and he was just he was trying to save 230 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:39.639 money to buy a jeep. That's what he wanted to do. 231 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:42.000 He wanted to buy a jeep. He was saving his money. 232 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:44.120 So you know, he's working at the pharmacy and always 233 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:47.440 looking for fructra work. So he's at the pharmacy one 234 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:51.679 night and there was this contractor who is Gaycy was there. 235 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:54.960 Gacy was in the store. He was familiar with the owner, 236 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:57.879 Go Tork and Kim Byers was there. He was another 237 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:01.200 worker Apple store. So they all went miss safety in there, 238 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:05.279 you know, possibly talking to Rob Peace. And at one 239 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:09.200 point in the night Kim Buyers, the other coworker at 240 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:13.000 the pharmacy, wanted to go outside. She had to run outside. 241 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:15.240 I don't know if she smoked or wanted to grab something, 242 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:18.679 but she asked about Rob's jacket, so he said, no problem. 243 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:21.480 He gave her this blue down jacket that he wore, 244 00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:25.440 and not knowing it, she had in her hands. What 245 00:13:25.639 --> 00:13:29.240 she had given to the pharmacy was a because again 246 00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:31.759 in the old days, when you would develop photos, you 247 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:34.720 would give them your role of photographs and they would 248 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:36.799 put it in an envelope and you'd get a little receipt. 249 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:39.200 So when you come back to pick up your developed photos, 250 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:40.960 you give them the receipt and pay and you get 251 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:43.879 your photographs. So she had done that. She had a 252 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:48.399 receipt from her photographs that she had put in Rob 253 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:51.720 Peacee's jacket. She totally forgot about it. So later she 254 00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:54.720 goes back in, she gives Rob Piecee his jacket. She 255 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:57.919 forgets about it. Snow big deal. So later in the night, 256 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:01.000 about nine o'clock, I think the store clothes. Around nine o'clock, 257 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:04.000 just before nine, Rob Peace's mother had come to pick 258 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.080 him up, and she went in the store. She had 259 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:08.679 seen him. He said, okay, you know, I'll be on 260 00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:11.559 the feud. She went out front, was waiting for him, 261 00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:14.279 you know, and then nine o'clock comes, around nine ten, 262 00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:17.679 nine twenty, he's nowhere to be found. She goes back in. 263 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:20.039 They say, well, we don't know where he went. You know, 264 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:21.759 last we saw him, he said he was going to 265 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:25.399 run outside and talk to that contractor guy. That's all 266 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:28.759 he said. So that's where the story kind of began. 267 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:31.240 So his mother went home and said, well, I'm sure 268 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:33.320 I'll call her me. He went home. No big deal. 269 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:36.919 And it was her birthday. It was Rob Peace's mother's birthday, 270 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:39.360 so they were going to celebrate her birthday. She was 271 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:42.799 picking her son up, goes home hour goes by, hours 272 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:45.960 go by, more hours go by. Of course, you know, 273 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.919 this good kid, you know, who never was in any trouble, 274 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:52.399 never shows up the entire night. So the parents call 275 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:55.840 it the Spains police department that night and they take 276 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:59.600 the information down. Early in the morning, Rob Keith's parents 277 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:02.200 are there at the Discloine's police department being on the door. 278 00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:05.919 He never showed up. So that's when the investigation into 279 00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:09.639 the disappearance of Rob Pease began, and that's when they 280 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:14.240 started asking people questions they went to. Obviously during the investigation, 281 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:16.200 they go to the pharmacy and they say, well, yeah, 282 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:18.919 he talked to that contractor guy. Well, may have been Gaycy. 283 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:20.840 He was in here. We're not sure if that was him, 284 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.399 because no one saw Rob Keats get into Dacy's vehicle. 285 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:27.759 But the detectives are figuring out, okay, let's go and 286 00:15:27.799 --> 00:15:31.559 talk to this Gacy guy. So you know, eventually, you know, 287 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:34.679 they call Gacy and you know, he said he would 288 00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:38.360 be in and make some excuses, and you know, so 289 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:43.399 eventually they do wind up talking to Gacy and you know, 290 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:47.240 he kind of you know, just says, you know, here's 291 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:50.559 what happened. You know, my uncle was dying, and you know, 292 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:52.840 I was at home, and you know, I don't know 293 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:54.879 anything about this kid. I was there at that store 294 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:58.960 earlier and that's all I know. And even after that though, 295 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:02.279 they thought they were you know, inaccuracies and and story. 296 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:05.559 So the Displays Police Department did get a search warrant, 297 00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:08.679 and after that first search warrant, that was where all 298 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:12.559 the red flags were raised because when they searched Gacy's house, 299 00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:19.679 they found numerous IDs from different young men. They found 300 00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:24.559 pairs of handcuffs, they found dildo's, they found books hidden 301 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:28.960 about you know, gay lovers, and you know, you know, 302 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:32.799 all the asnomy materials. They found a two by four 303 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:37.080 that had holes drilled into it. So obviously, you know, 304 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:39.799 their suspicions were raised. And then if a little what 305 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:43.679 actually happened is Rob Peace did go out to talk 306 00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:46.879 to John Wayne Gacy. When he went out, Gacy said, well, yeah, 307 00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:48.799 happened to car. You know, I only lived five minutes 308 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:50.960 from here. We'll go to my house. We'll talk about it. 309 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:52.759 You know, I you know, I could pay you more 310 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:55.759 than what anybody else pays you. So it was really 311 00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:59.559 you know, the allure of making more money that threw 312 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:03.559 rod he's John Wayne Gacy. And again Gacy was well known. 313 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:06.039 He was a nice guy. Everybody knew Gaycy, so it 314 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:08.599 wasn't like this was some stranger in a sense because 315 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.279 Phil Poor, the owner of the pharmacy, he knew Gaycy. 316 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:13.920 And Rob Peace did get in the car with Gacy 317 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:16.559 and he went to his house, which was more again 318 00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:19.480 about five or ten minutes away from the pharmacy. Gets there, 319 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:23.160 Gazie's talking to him about, well, you know, I'm pretty 320 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:26.359 liberal minded myself. You know, what do you think about sex? 321 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:28.119 What are your views on it? You know, have you 322 00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:30.119 ever heard of the Kingsy Report? You know. He does 323 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.440 his usual speel on Rob Peat, trying to feel him 324 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:36.000 out to see if he's going to be easy or 325 00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:38.480 he's going to be hard victim. Well, it turned out 326 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:42.799 that he wasn't really into it. And then Gacy started 327 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:45.039 to show him the handcuff trick and he said he 328 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:48.839 was a registered clown and puts these handcuffs on Rob 329 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:51.839 Peace just like he did all his other victims, behind 330 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:54.119 Rob Peaste's back so he can't get out of them. 331 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:57.000 He shows Rob Peace the key and says, well, here's 332 00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:58.839 the key, you know, this is how I got out 333 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:00.480 of him. This is why you came out of them, 334 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:04.359 because I had the key. And then he starts actually 335 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:07.519 attempting to perform oral sex on rob Peaste, and rob 336 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:12.480 Peaste wasn't able to achieve an erection, so Gacy started 337 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:15.400 to do the rope trick. And two reasons for the 338 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:19.240 rope trick. One if it's kind of like when people 339 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:23.720 do the autoerotic asphyxiation, that it's possible to have more 340 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:27.519 blood flow that have erection, So that was one reason. 341 00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:31.279 But eventually once Gacy turned it even more, turns the 342 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:33.920 rope around their neck, he would create a little not 343 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:37.240 stick a stick in and then create another not turn 344 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:40.519 that like a tourniquet, eventually choking them within a matter 345 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:43.759 of thirty seconds. So he was turning this on rob Piece. 346 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:47.200 Rob Piaste was crying as if Gacy was attempting oral 347 00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:50.720 sex on him. The phone rings, Acy goes to answer 348 00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:53.039 the phone. When he comes back, Rob Piece is dead 349 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:57.240 on the floor from the tourniquet, and then Gacy fluck 350 00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:00.000 with the body. Overnight may have had more sex with it, 351 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.519 Gaysey said he did. We're not sure of the exact 352 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:05.599 details of that, and then Gacy took rob Piece's body 353 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:07.720 and put it in the attic. So the first time 354 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:11.880 when the Displainings detective came to Gacy's house and searched 355 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.319 the entire house, I'm sorry, prior to the first time 356 00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:18.000 of searching the house, when they just went to talk 357 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:20.839 to Gacy, Rob Peace's body is still in the attic. 358 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:24.039 So that's when Gacy, when they left Casey took the 359 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:26.480 body down, took it to the river, threw it in 360 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:29.519 the river, and then the displays police came back with 361 00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:32.119 a search warrant, so it again. You know, it's just 362 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:35.400 this chain of events that I think poor Rob Peace 363 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:37.440 is probably you know, they were all bad, but I 364 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:39.799 think that one get the closest to home because it 365 00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:42.440 was his last victim, and you know, Gasey was just 366 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:45.319 getting sloppy, you know, I think his lust overcame his 367 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.039 mind at that point and probably even you know, didn't 368 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:50.119 even think about the fact that he was probably seen 369 00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:52.519 by other people and he would be fingered. 370 00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:55.960 You talk about their suspicions. Once they have that search warrant, 371 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:58.759 they see beyond red flags, so they put him under 372 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:02.960 twenty four hour surveyor pretty well almost you say, almost 373 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:05.880 twenty four hours surveillance. Those are some gaps in that 374 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:08.200 tell us how does he react to this twenty four 375 00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:10.599 hour surveillance, does he know it? When does he know it? 376 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:14.200 And just tell us what the fruits of the surveillance are. 377 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.000 Yeah, you know, that surveillance by the Displays Police Department 378 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.359 was one of the first. There had never been a 379 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:26.559 dedicated task force like that to apprehend a criminal. So 380 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.519 Displays gets a lot of kudos for actually forming this 381 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:33.240 task force. And one of the units was the surveillance unit. 382 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:36.319 So there was the unit to look at Gaysy in 383 00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:39.640 his background, the unit to look at Rob Peaste in 384 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:44.079 his background, and another unit to have surveillance of Gaysy 385 00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:46.759 around the clock twenty four hours. There was a day 386 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:51.480 shift and a night shift, so the officers I interviewed 387 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:54.720 Hackmeister and Albrek they were the night shift. So they 388 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:58.519 had started I believe that night, maybe midnight, and then 389 00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:01.079 they would go until noon next day. So it was like, 390 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:04.240 you know, twelve each each one had a twelve hour shift, 391 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.400 and at first there wasn't a surveillance, but I think 392 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:11.960 the first day or two after, I think, especially after 393 00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:14.319 they had gone in with a first search onet. That's 394 00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:16.440 where around. I believe it was ten or eleven days 395 00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:19.680 total of the surveillance, and so they had started. It 396 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:22.559 was a covert surveillance. That's what it was supposed to 397 00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:26.839 be at first. So Dave Hackmeiser was the second shift 398 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:29.680 on the scene and when he arrived, he didn't see 399 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:33.319 Gaysey until the next morning. So Dave Hackmeister was parked 400 00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:36.240 on Gacy's block. At about ten am the next morning, 401 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:40.240