Speaker 1: What is up, fellas it goes, I am Dana Valley
coming at you with another twenty twenty five twenty twenty
six NBA season look ahead. The Washington Wizards are up next,
which means we get to speak with Matt Maderno. He
hosts the Believe in Wizards podcast with former Wizard Jahati White,
and he is also a writer for Bullets Forever. He
does fantastic work. Love listening to that podcast, chopping in
throughout the regular season. Excited to talk to him about
a team that just has so many I've said this
a lot this year. They have so many dudes. Wizards
just have so many dudes. But first and most importantly, Matt,
how the heck are you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm great. We said this before recording, but I'll say
for the people listening, if you've checked these out in
the past, I'm usually kind of a Debbie downer, only
because the Wizards have been bad most on adult life,
but this might be the most excited I've ever been
about a Wizards team that may not win twenty games.
So I'm excited to get into the roster here and
talk about all those dudes you alluded to.
Speaker 1: Are those are kind of the fun teams to root
for where they're they're like the perfect amount of like
the right kind of bad. Maybe not the perfect, but
they're the right kind of bad, and it feels like
that's what the Wizard's like, that's the direction they're headed in.
Speaker 2: We're usually the wrong kind of bad, old and expensive
and not very good. So to be young and about
to have some money and not be very good, it's
pretty great.
Speaker 1: And to be fair, because you and I have both
been pretty complimentary of the process, and like since they've
the front office has changed over so but this is
like a year where it feels like they're stakes coming
after the year, so it makes this year more interesting.
But I want to start here. So we're entering year
three of this rebuild. How have you felt about the
navigation and execution of it so far?
Speaker 2: It's funny, Like I don't know, maybe this is how
every fan is about their own team, but I have
a tendency to nitpick with them a little bit, but overall,
like more good than bad, and I considerably like the
way they're going about it more than I like the
way the previous two general managers went about it, especially
toward the end of both of those tenures. So you know,
like we talked about this before, I didn't love the
Denny Avdya trade. I still wouldn't have gone about it.
I love getting bub Carrington. I think there were probably
other ways to make that happen. We'll see what happens
with that twenty nine pick, you know, So giving up
some of your young guys to have to get the
other dudes I didn't love, like giving Danel Gafford up
when they did. I really like Keishaan George, so like
it ended up working out pretty well for me, but
I felt like there were maybe other ways to So
it's splitting hairs on a few of those things. But
I'm just ultimately happy with where they are. And you know,
there are a few things like well they didn't flip
Tyas Jones at the deadline one year where there were
two second round picks on the table, So I'm going
to give them a hard time over that. It's like,
in the grand scheme of things, it's not really that
big a deal, so more good than bad, and this
they've accumulated intrigu guys, and ultimately, I think this comes
down to however many of them pop I personally I mean,
we're going to go guy by guy here, but like
they're all interesting. One of them could turn into like
a dude. But I still feel like they need to
get the dude, like capital T, capital D the dude.
And I don't know that that guy's on this roster yet,
but the I don't know, the outline of a really
good team is starting to form.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, that's what's tough but also intriguing about
their situation. I think you could probably point to, depending
on how you feel about Trey Johnson, three guys who
might in theory as of right now. No, I don't
think you would call them the dude, but any one
of them could turn to the dude. But it's also
what makes their future fascinating because they have basically infinite
amounts of cap space next year as of now. Do
we read into that at all as oh, they're going
to try and take some major steps forward next summer?
Is that just kind of like the byproduct of they
might they're not going to be hesitant to burn that
flexibility in season, which is they want have cap space,
but they'd be willing to take money that spills into
their books over the next couple of years.
Speaker 2: I think the real magic trick that this front office
pulled off was convincing owner ted leonsis that, like, you
have to rip this down to the studs and just
like bottom out completely to actually rebuild this thing properly,
and you have to give us a couple of years
to do it. My big fear that entire time was
that eventually they would get impatient if they don't start
to show some signs of growth. And you look at
it a little bit with like this latest of the
OKC rebuilds, like that's the model they clearly want to
go for. They were just pretty bad for a handful
of years, and then you just saw jump one year
of like, oh there's an extra twenty wins they got
by adding the key veteran here, and like, guys just
sort of naturally developed. So I don't know if they'll
go like all in you know, the next free agency here,
but I do think you might start to see here's
a big upgrade, or maybe we consolidate a couple of
these guys, you know, to go add a particular particular
trade target that they couldn't have gotten otherwise. So and
you want to have the room to take on some
of that salary. So I think they it's a long
win way of saying, I don't think like they're really
going to fastward the timetable a ton, but they're not
gonna want to be another fifteen win team again the
season after this one. So if they're not like young
and fun and competing for at least like a play
in I do, that's when I think there's gonna be
like real trouble for them from an ownership perspective.
Speaker 1: Because I was gonna ask you that too. There has
to be a level of amongst the fan base existential
dread that like ted Leonsis is going to come in
and force them to fast track this after three what
should be pretty bad years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that should be the fear
from the fan base. Whether it is or not, I
don't have a great sense for at the moment. I
think everyone just has like their sort of honeymoon you know,
rose colored glasses on about the front office, so they're
not thinking about they all have a boss ultimately, and
like at some point they're going to have to be
accountable to him to show that growth and to start
to sell some tickets like NBA teams. I think you
can be a little bit more patient now because for
him it's still like an asset that's accumulating, you know,
long term value. But it's just hard to have a
totally empty arena and they're putting some money into it.
The city's putting some money into it to rehabit. They
had this big public feud with the city and trying
to move out of the city. So at some point,
if DC is going to pour money back into this arena,
they probably also want some return on investment of like
put butts in seats and people are in the surrounding area.
So they're not going to be like the worst team
in the league again in twenty twenty eight. He won't
let that happen. It's whether there can be enough organic
growth to not lock yourself into some bad contracts. And
I forgot one thing I just want to circle back to.
Just look at what's going on with Bradley Beal where
a team had to buy him out this summer, and
you have to give this front office like even extra
credit for That's really the amazing thing here is that
they got off of that deal to get to this
cap space, like there was a world where they could
have still been locked into that deal you know right now,
and that's crazy.
Speaker 1: Sometimes things just come down to having that eshb his
number and.
Speaker 2: That so that's the smart to have him on speed dial.
Speaker 1: I think, before kind of digging into the players, what
have you taken away so far philosophically, stylistically, anything about
Brian Keith at the head coach bot and how difficult
is it to evaluate them, not when they're just going
through this part of their life cycle where they're rebuilding,
but also when there has been some roster chare and
when it comes to the veterans.
Speaker 2: I'm just pretty indifferent on Washington's equivalent of Brett Brown.
I think, like, to me, he's he's the guy that's
just sort of minding the store while the the tanking
you know, rebuilding process is going on or deconstruction FAI
or whatever term they were using for it. I can't
imagine him being the guy here long term when they
turn this thing around. Wizards fans I think kind of
collectively are out on him because maybe he was slow
to play a few of the rookies ahead of some
of the older guys last year. So I think the
majority of fans would say that they're not huge fans.
He just can't tell. I mean, he seems to be
a good enough player development focused coach that some of
these guys are starting to show some steps. My one
major nitpick with him is he was asked about, Hey,
you've got a lot of guys on this roster that
can't shoot. Who is the wizard shooting coach? And he
gave this very flippant like, what do you mean. We
all know how to shoot, so we can all teach
people how to shoot equally. And if you're front office
that drafted all these like physically gifted toolsy guys, but
none of them are particularly good shooters other than like
maybe Trey Johnson being the exception. I would throw money
at bringing on as many elite shooting coaches as I
could to this staff, particularly because it is the swing
skill for everyone on this roster pretty much. So that
poed me a little bit personally. But overall he's just
like perfectly fine, I think, And I bet they give
him like one year when they start to be good
again before they bring in like the guy to lead them,
you know, back into like playoff relevance.
Speaker 1: He did Seeven work some nice Little Wonders with Jordan
Poole and then they were able to trade him.
Speaker 2: So yeah, maybe that's point.
Speaker 1: They don't really have a contract on the books that
they need to view through that lens. This this season though,
very true though, So let's start talking about some of
the players. So let's start with Alex Sar What most
stood out to you from him during his rookie season.
Speaker 2: I think last year was just like what you expected
him to be good at, he was pretty good at,
and what you expected him to be bad at, he
was pretty bad at. Like it, it just sort of
played out like I think people who watched him play
a good amount pre draft thought it would play out.
He's a big man who doesn't really do big man things,
and they used him a lot as a stretch big,
but he hasn't really shown he can actually shoot yet.
But there was like a month year where it was
really good for a while and he saw more of
the flashes. So I think we're still in that, like
see some flashes stage of things, and I think somebody
we're gonna have to be patient with as a fan base. Offensively,
I think this is a dude that has like just
chaos agent defensive potential as somebody who can cover a
ton of ground. And I think this is something you
guys have talked about it, just like there's some rangy
dudes from like this core that I think the defensive
blueprint and infrastructures is going to be ahead of the
offensive stuff. But when you're that big that you can
switch out onto guards capably or you know, block somebody
big at the rim, like it's it's you see enough
of the vision to be like, Okay, don't worry about
the efficiency until like year three or four at this point,
because it's not going to be good.
Speaker 1: I don't think yeah. And I think they because some
of the questions had been like are they going to
try and maybe play him alongside another big and their
roster just telegraphs that like that's not And I think
defensively he's probably still needs to get stronger, but like
the range you mentioned that he can give you and
just the defensive playmaking overall, I think that's spot. I
think he's probably like he's gonna be the biggest mismatch
offensively as a five. And so I think there's you
mentioned the stretch with a three point shot was going
down is there anything like the one thing if you
could like wish upon a star and say, like Alexar
did this this year? Is it? Oh he was pancaking
dudes on screens or he was finishing through contact and
at the rim a little better? Is it?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: What would it be to me?
Speaker 2: He'll have a slower guy on him, and he'll have
the ball like seventeen feet from the hoop and he'll
back up to shoot a three, and that drives me
a little crazy. I also just don't want to see
my seven footer take like a twelve foot floater or
even a three foot floater. I want to see him
just try to put guys on posters a little bit
more and he'll dunk sometimes and you're like, oh shit,
Like I actually didn't know he Like I forgot he
could do that because it'll be a while, you know,
in between. So like I think just a it's maybe
a more between the ears mentality kind of thing of
I'd love to see him have a little bit more
of that swagger. It's the thing I hoped would rub
off from Jordan Poole onto both he and Kolabali of
just like b Psycho, I can take over a game
a rational confidence guy even if you can't, I'd be
okay with him trying and failing at that then like
never kind of trying it. So he strikes me more
as just like a complimentary piece. Offensively, there's some really
cool short role passing stuff that he does. But yeah,
this screen one is actually interesting. I'd love to see
him just like demolish a guy on a screen. He
kind of slips everything, but that's important, and he does
those kinds of things well. I think the model is
probably you mentioned it with the roster, like long term,
I think the best version of him is like this
a poor man's Anthony Davis kind of mold where maybe
you start a game with him next to a traditional
center to eat up some of the pounding, but like
you can't. The best version of him is closing games
at the five. He gets offensive mismatches, He's not going
to get played off the floor and hunted defensively, And
I think you're seeing them now, trying to give him
as many of those growing pains as the five early
so that when they are relevant again, you know in
the postseason, he's just ready to hit the ground running.
Is like the lone big and I say that to
Wizards fans, and I get the well, look at Cleveland,
they're doing twin towers. It can work here, But I
don't know has Cleveland done anything in the playoffs yet
to show us that that model actually works in the postseason.
So to me, I would keep, you know, focusing on
like the hymn at the five mold and just have
like long rangey switchable guys around him.
Speaker 1: The other thing is is that you can't just say
go find Jared Allen. It's not like a big that
you could just say go get him. So it's just like, yeah,
if you can get him, sure, then you could talk
about it. But it's tough to just say, like you
don't I don't want to see Alex r and Daniel
Gafford together.
Speaker 2: It's like a we may go get Jared Allen in
twenty twenty eight when he's on the down string of
things like that, that's a wizard's move.
Speaker 1: It feels like, what So, You've mentioned a lot of
stuff that I think can contribute to what's been relative
for a big man. Just a lack of volume at
the rim for him. Is that a physical thing or
is it more of a physical thing a decision making thing.
Could he stand to be more aggressive when he's doing
his grabbing goes? Is it the takeoff points? What contribute?
Is it the the spacing environment in which he's being
brought up? Like what do you could view as the
biggest contributing factor to that?
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I mean move it on. Yeah, it's just
I think you nailed some piece of all of it.
It really is kind of a perfect storm of those things.
Like I mentioned the shooting right, like there aren't papers
around him. They create these lanes for him to drive
by a bigger guy and actually go attack the rim
he hasn't also really had, Like I was not a
Jordan Poole guy the first year. I thought he was
markedly better last year, but I still wouldn't say he
was like gonna.
Speaker 1: Takes helicans to the four seed. Like they apparently believe.
Speaker 2: Hey, we'll see I mean, more power to him if
he can do it, give him that contract bonus. But
they they still sort of lacking, And this is the
piece I hope they can add on. The rebuild is
sort of that explosive collapse of defense. Put everybody on
their heels. Offensive guy someone to like probe into the lane,
who's like the dynamic pick and roll partner with him
long term, And I think there's a lot of picking
and popping because he's playing next to a guard that
they don't really have to They don't have that kind
of gravity, so he just floats out and gets out
of the way. Whereas if someone's you know, if if
two people have to kind of account for this dynamic
point guard, it would leave Sar a little more open
to roll with the rim, be more of a vertical
spacer and things like that. We just don't see much,
but you get like a flash every once in a while.
And you know, played a few minutes next to Trey Johnson,
who again not like this spring loaded offensive guy, but
because he's so crafty, there were just a few moments
even in just like summer League, we're like, oh, okay,
like there there might be some fun stuff we can
do here with him this year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't think I was gonna be as high.
I was pretty low on alex are actually when he
was coming out of the draft, and now just because
it's redraft season, I am like very reed. Shepherd pilled.
I know he didn't play a lot last year, but
I would take Alex r I think no lower than
two in a redraft, which is where he went. So
let's not really give praise, but I think the Wizards
made the right pick. We're gonna look back and say,
right like, that was the right pick there. And you
also hell of a segue from you. You mentioned some
things why I find blaw Cool Bali actually so fascinating.
We joke around here how much we love Blowcool Bali
the basketball player. But I've seen a lot of people
kind of say, like, no, he's gonna need to be
like more of this three and D guy on offense.
And you just mentioned something about having someone who can
be on the ball, getting downhill, drawing in defenders. When
I look at this roster, I don't like someone who
can generate that like paint touch, like with the ball
in their hands. Maybe it's Trey Johnson now, but like
blow Cool Bali might just be their best bet there,
which is why I think it's too soon to say
they need him to be more of a three and
D guy on the offense.
Speaker 2: Event I think that it was hard just to really
evaluate him last year. It was kind of like a
lukewarm start. I mentioned maybe some emphasis on some of
the veterans to start the year from Brian Keith, and
then at some point either he got more comfortable or
they made more of a decision to just like give
him the ball and let him try things. It just
there were like there was like a month where you're like,
oh shit, could he win Most Improved Player in the league,
Like he just had enough stuff going on that was like, Okay,
I see what you just mentioned in him. Then he
gets it's hurt and it wasn't kind of the same
and they ultimately misses the end of the year. So
it just I think last year was almost kind of
like a throwaway year from a real evaluation, and this
is the year where we need to see more of
those things. I think the handle has to get tighter.
This was always sort of my nitpick with Denny Avdiya
and when we did these previous you know, did these
previous seasons, like we were kind of split on him
a little bit. It's like for me, it was if
he could shoot enough, he can maximize the other things
he can do, Like if Coolbally can get downhill, he
can do some of this creative passing and collapse the
paint but guys are just kind of sagging off of
him a little bit too much right now. So the
handle either has to get tighter so we can just
drive by some dudes, or he's got to be able
to shoot enough, or realistically both. But he's I'm not
out on that. I think some Wizards fans are a
little more out on that sort of offensive potential for him.
But I don't know. If he's Jaden McDaniels. That's still
not a bad draft pick to me at number seven
in that particular draft.
Speaker 1: No, not at all. I look, I'm not I wouldn't
be out on that. I don't know if I would
predict him like hitting that highest end outcome as an
offensive player. But we also have to chalk up to
is so you go through your rookie year where you're
just not, at least not until the end of the season,
you weren't being used in the same way, and then
all of a sudden, they're just shooting up your pick
and roll volume. As one example, like that's gonna take
that You mentioned the injury. That just takes some adjusting.
So I think you're right that this is kind of
the year where it's we know, kind of like his
floor or where it's, oh, he could just be like
a really valuable three and D player, but I still
think his ceiling is like TBD in a very good
mystery box way to where no, you can't can't guarantee anything,
but like let's not rule out anything here just yet.
Speaker 2: I think he could like genuinely make an all defensive team,
maybe not this year, but not too long after that. Like,
I think he has the potential to be like that
good and if that's all you get from him, that's
still a really like exciting, complimentary guy to have on
a roster. And just you know, maybe the chances of
him hitting that maximum outcome offensively you have like dropped
a little bit, in my opinion, there's still not zero,
and he could definitely take a big jump. Like this
is a dude, you almost have to throw away the
rookie year because he just wasn't even supposed to be
in the league that year, Like he was still a
guy that was projected to be a year away from that.
So he's like got a year and a half a
seasoning and it really doesn't even feel like that yet.
So I think this is really the big year to
just truly get a sense for what kind of player
he could be and how they envisioned him to and.
Speaker 1: I look and I whatever version of himself he becomes,
like the Yeah, okay, a more steadier three ball is
going to be important if you want him to be
a three and D guy. The three ball arguably becomes
more important if you're not going to rely on him
to do some of the ball handling exactly stuff and
that I don't know why. Okay, So he's at twenty
eight percent or whatever it was on catch and shoot
THERESI last year, and I still kind of just believe
he'll get to maybe not og Anenobe levels of that
reliable as a three guy, but maybe at Jade McDaniels
to where there's peaks and valley. But at the end
of the day he might be shooting thirty six or
thirty seven percent on threes, hopefully with more volume than
Jane McDaniels.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agreed.
Speaker 1: Trey Johnson, I felt I was not Trey Johnson guy
coming into the drugt I'm just not anyone's guy coming
out of the draft. He sold me a bit, not
like at Summer League, like the shooting like oh no,
like that's gonna translate really freaking well. What are your
early impressions of him and what type of role can
we expect him to have? Off rip for Washington.
Speaker 2: I wasn't a huge Trey Johnson guy early in the
year last year at Texas and then got a little
more into it, and then got to see him in
person at the end of the year in the tournament,
and I was like, oh, okay, like there's a little
something extra here that I didn't realize. And I just thought,
like that Summer League performance, like the Wizards have not
set the world on fire at Summer League despite having
so many guys from their actual roster that play on
the team, like Alexar probably had the worst Summer League
game in Summer League history, which says something.
Speaker 1: I thought.
Speaker 2: Trey Johnson was just like everything you would have wanted
him to be in that sample size of just you know,
he was like a dynamic offensive player. He can shoot,
he can drive, he's creative. I think eventually you'll see
more passing from him too, just based on that role. Yeah,
that's the role he's going to have to play to
be able to play those minutes. What is he long
term is he only a two you know, if he
can't be a playmaker, and he's got to be off
ball a little bit more than maybe he only profiles
as like an elite sixth man kind of guy microwave scorer.
I think that's still not a bad player. I think
that's probably worst case scenario for him personally, is just
like this Lou Williams sixth Man of the Year kind
of guy. But I think, you know, if the passing
comes along and he can be, you know, part of
a two headed monster in the background with another guy
that does some playmaking as well, there's something there and
I think he'll unlock a lot of these other guys
just from a consistent shooting perspective. I get why they
moved on from Jordan Poole when they did, just to
kind of re up some of that role for Trey.
So they may take a step back offensively just because
Pool had so much gravity, But just given those reps
to Pool or to Johnson this year, I think it's
going to be important. But I do think he needs
like another guy next to him in the backcard. And
so whether it's he and you know, Bubb makes sense,
Bub Carrington makes sense. Long term together, or one of
them is a sixth man, or you can go get
a Darren Peterson from Kansas in the draft after this year,
like somebody's got to unlock that could be an elite wing,
could be another elite guard. But I think I see
Trays more like an option to kind of guy on
a really good team offensively. And if that's the case,
like you knows, he's pretty done good.
Speaker 1: It does seem, and it's way thoroughly to say this,
it does seem that if he's going to make some
type of playmaking leap or impact, it's not going to
be as you would trust Bub Carrington to slow down
the half court offense and maybe play make out of that.
With Trey Johnson, it feels like it's going to be
very reactive. He got downhill and that's what he's doing.
Maybe not, but like that is kind of my read.
But when you can shoot and score like he can,
that's if you can get him to pass out of drives,
that's perfectly fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's gonna be enough, I think, especially if
the guys around him show they can actually make enough
shots to do that.
Speaker 1: What were your thoughts about the cam Whitmore trade and
what are you kind you know that's I mentioned perimeter
players who can get paint touches on the ball. He
can certainly do that, but he is not going to
pass on those paint touches, which is why I singled
out cool Bali there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he makes actually a lot of sense
for this roster. And it was a guy Wizards fans
wanted a lot out of that particular draft, So this
a little bit of like, oh, you went out and
got our guy, and like this front office their approval rating,
Like Bob Carrington was a huge Wizards fan based darling
in that draft. So was Keshan George and same with
Cam Whitmore. So to go back and get like the
other guy the fan base liked, I think was at
least big, you know, for their approval rating overall. And
the thing with Cam, like my take on the guys
they've drafted so far, like there's positional size, there's all
like every one of these dudes has a little bit
of like passing ability and some playmaking. Like they're all
maybe slightly better than you expect as like not really
ball stoppers, which is great, but they're all also kind
of willing to like take a back seat a little
bit too much. In my opinion, I want like a
a rational confidence guy like I mentioned, and so like
you need Kid Moore to pass or Kim Wentmore to
pass a little bit. But I'm okay with the dude
that just wants to come in and like rip rims
down and kill dudes out there, and maybe that just
rubs off on people enough. And I think he's another
guy that if they got that sort of dynamic guard,
like maybe him and Trey having some minutes together would
be great. But he's more of a slasher to me,
and I'd actually maybe use him more as like a
small ball, you know, four sometimes because he's like sturdily built,
but he's not maybe the best shooter of his own,
So just let him be a power player and attack
the rim and just can you get him to do
some like I don't know, rush Brownie type things. Is
like a short role passer and stuff like that too,
like that if there's just enough playmaking there and enough
shooting to unlock the physical gifts, I think he's the
amazing kind of guy to take a flyer on. If
you're this Wizards team, there's like literally reasonable reward and
no risk to do it. So I love that move.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't. I don't think the past like
I just don't think the passing is ever Maybe maybe
I'll be wrong. The short wold thing is not really
something I considered. So if you have the spacing around him, maybe.
Speaker 2: That's got to be what it is. If you're playing
him around other wings that can shoot, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think and a lot of this will depend
on the environment too. I actually think that his shooting,
he's gonna end up being like this lights out guy
who's he will score off the catch, he can even
score off motion, and so that I'm so interest to
see what his offensive fit looks like in the larger ecosystem.
I thought it was a home run move by them,
like they were. The second round picks they gave up
were like real second round picks. But to get someone
with his pedigree when they have not one but two
years left on their rookie scale is actually kind of insane.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no one can really explain to me, Like
I know enough guys here locally to be able to ask,
like what they thought went on with him draft wise?
And I still don't have like a great, like concrete
answer why he fell. So you got a dude that
was top five on draft boards for like a large
portion of the year, which was you know, probably too high,
but he dropped the twenty and you got him as
a reclamation project already, Like cool, Like what There's just
literally no harm in trying to do that, And I
wish they would do that as many times as possible
between now and whenever they're good again.
Speaker 1: I gave up trying. I asked like a couple of
like Rockets people that I interact with, not Rockets team sources,
I'm not sourcing him here, and just nobody had answers,
and I gave up. But I just assumed that we
would eventually find out. And now that you mentioned, I'm like, yeah,
it's two years later. We still haven't really found out. Though.
Speaker 2: It's weird, right, like you usually hear some of the
leaks out at some point. But the one thing I'll
say is like he's been an underwhelming defender, and if
anyone's not familiar with like Cam wentmore, why he was
an exciting prospect, like go watch him do like feed
under eighteen stuff or Team USA. He was just everywhere
and like swarm dudes and like overwhelmed people with physicality
and athleticism, and I don't know, never really saw him
do that when he got in in limited minutes with
the Rockets, and maybe some of that was just frustration.
But this Wizards team, like the young guys, are exciting
because they profile as better than average defenders almost across
the board, like Keishan Georgia. I'm sure we're gonna get
too private next or whenever, Like he was kind of
all over the place and he's an octopus and he's long,
and like Kim Wimore, could do more of those things.
So I hope he rubs off on them with offensive aggressiveness,
but I hope they kind of hold him accountable defensively.
And if not like it, it's not quite as an
exciting to me as a move if he's not going
to do much on that end.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned that maybe he's frustrated, so perhaps if
he's having a bigger role, it'll get an easier buying.
But I also wonder, I like with a lot of players,
the buy in when you're getting closer to that second contract.
He's extension eligible after next season, right, is it real? Right?
So well, no, not even is it real? Is that
going to convince him to have to give a fuck
factor on the defensive end basically, so that'll be something
because the Rockets had a similar ecosystem of it's all
these young dudes who really work on the defensive end,
and you're like, well, why did that rub off?
Speaker 2: Exactly?
Speaker 1: Let's talk Kishan George, how you feeling about him after
his rookie year.
Speaker 2: I love him, and I don't really is that what
it is? It's probably their Yeah, he's just cool looking dude,
and he's funny and he's charming, and it just could
keep going on and on about Bakishan, but no, he's
just I think there's something there. And this is like
a stupid way to phrase this, I realize in advance,
so take this with a grain salt, But it's not
like a scientific way to analyze a guy. But certain
dude just kind of move differently on a basketball court,
and like for his biggest Kishan is like, this is
a dude who grew late and he feels like he's
still kind of growing into his limbs here a little bit,
but just like a very fluid, smooth guy on the court.
And he'll do some things we're like, oh, like he
showed a little wiggle here as he grabbed, grabbing and
going through traffic, and he'll like do a swaggy step
back and like brick it horribly. But like the fact
that he took it is just I don't know, is
intriguing to me. I actually I might be higher on
him than any of the other young guys currently on
this court, which is maybe crazy to say. I think
the shooting will take a big jump forward this year,
so you know a little bit already here it's some
international play, Like it just looks a little more fluid,
and not that it was broken, like he shot well
at Miami but on low volume. But it just last
year he started off so bad. I feel like that's
almost you almost have to wipe the slate clean and
start over the whole next year for somebody when you're
just that bad out of the gate as a rookie.
But I buy the shooting, and so now it's he's
got enough handle to get downhill. I think there's some
playmaking chops there. Yeah, So like he's exciting to me
as a wing that can just do a little bit
of everything. And I thought he was way ahead of schedule. Defensively,
I expected him to do very little on that end,
but he gets He's got good feel and he's got
good positioning on things, so he gets steals and some
blocks and some runouts from it, and I just, yeah,
he's he's got some some real ceiling.
Speaker 1: To me, he's definitely a eye test and vibes guy.
For the first two years of his confute efficiency's not there.
You just dismiss it because it looks he looks the
part of like somebody who could be even a connector
the passing. I certainly see it. I have not seen
any of his time with Canada, but I know he
should because summerally worry me a little bit when he
shot like twenty four percent from three or whatever it was.
But he's at like fifty something percent with Team Canada.
Have you seen any of that? Like, what is it?
What is it that makes you buy into like him
being able to hit those shots?
Speaker 2: It just he just looks confident in taking it. And
I don't know if that's just I had a whole
summer to put in work and like do my thing
and and now I'm feeling good or I get to
be more of the guy on this Canada team. Like
you know, I'm not really sure what's driving that change,
other than just like he some guys shoot because they
have to shoot in certain situations. Last year, I think
he shot to like try to show he could make it.
And this year I feel like he just is just
like clean shooting the ball because like the situation presents
itself and he expects him to go in. So it
just you almost don't feel him thinking so much about
it as he's kind of playing through so many situations.
So we'll see if it if it holds up, but
I expect him to be like mid thirty to high
thirties kind of guy.
Speaker 1: Which is people are gonna say some inflammatory things about
him this season if he's a high thirties three point shooter,
and they will all be deserved.
Speaker 2: And I will give one of the people saying those things, yeah, exactly, and.
Speaker 1: I will be aggregating what you say on this podcast
and just agreeing with it. The more I think about
this team though, and you could vie hit the lens
of like maybe it makes Keishaan George's role easier, certainly
would help Alex Sar maybe even Kolabali, maybe even Trey Johnson.
They need like the primary playmaker that or needs to
be like this playmaking by committee approach. Can Bob Carrington
be that guy? I've gone back and forth.
Speaker 2: I don't think so. Personal I'm not saying he can't.
I wouldn't bet on it being the most likely outcome
is probably the way I frame it. Everybody talks about
this dude is like a psycho competitor and a crazy
hard worker. Like that's been a thing here locally from
people that don't have any need to bes that kind
of stuff. So like I buy it, and people around
the team say that sort of thing of like that's
the first name that comes up every time, is like
this is the dude who wants to win every drill
and win every scrimmage. So I love those sorts of things.
I don't know if like the physical tools are there
to be like that elite, you know, like high offensive
option for him, Like he's just he's not too bursty necessarily,
He's got decent size, but he's not going to like
over He's not Kid Cunningham where he's so big, you know,
he's seeing over the defense the whole time, Like so
if you're not one of those two things, I just
think it's hard to be like a starting, primary initiator
in the league of like a high end kind of guy.
If he's your fifth starter to run the offense because
you have some elite wings like that, that's fine. But
to me, if you get to a situation where he's
like your first guard off the bench, now you've got
a really good team because he can he can be
on ball, he can be off ball, like, he's got
enough size to guard ones and twos, like he would
be an elite roster unlocker. I think if you had
the ability to bring him off the bench.
Speaker 1: He's like, this isn't like a perfect analog. There's an
on ball poise there with him, especially when he gets
into the link and know how to maintain his dribble.
But just I don't I don't even know who the
right comp of a player is. It feels like post
prime CP three with the way that he just doesn't
get to the basket and you can maybe trust the
efficiency is not the same. You could trust it maybe
to make the right decisions. But I like that version
of CB three could still drive an offense and it's
even thought about Malcolm Brogden, who is just his teammate,
But that's that's not even like his drives are a
little bit more brogged in prime. Brogden's drives are more forceful,
And I don't know, I'm with you, I need to
see more of them, of course, I just don't know
if he has that extra gear to where there's either
going to be a downhill force or just a thrust
about the way he plays.
Speaker 2: The majority, I'm not saying all, but like greater than
fifty one percent of Wizards fans, like I feel confident
in this percentage, are obsessed with his ability to make
tough mid range pull ups over guys, and he can
do this at an elite level, you know, right out
of the gate as a rookie. And I'm more of
the but why does he have to take so many
of them? You know? Thing? Because it's just it's it's
hard to maximize value on that particular shot if you're
not like a star player on a team, and maybe
being surrounded by more shooting would help him have a
little bit more space to drive and get a little
further to the basket. So I don't think it's totally
a hymn thing, but I just don't ever see it
take a big enough jump where he can be like
the guy driving an offense necessarily and that that's okay
for me too. I think he's just like a really good,
solid contributor here for a long time, fringe starter kind
of guy.
Speaker 1: How many free throws does he get? This guy makes season?
Speaker 2: Not enough, whatever the number is, it just sort of
probably won't be enough for me too. And he's a
solid dude. Like there was this play even on Opening
Night where like Drew Holliday try to like back him
down and like he held his ground and like we're like,
oh okay, like he's he's tough there. So honestly, actually
maybe it's kind of like Drew Holliday ish offensively, Like
he's not that kind of defender, but like a little
bit of a tweener, you know, not crazy athletic, but
he can create enough for people and just be sort
of solid. Like maybe maybe that's the kind of role
you look for, is like the the lower end, the
offensive kind of guard, you know, not a top half
offensive point guard in the NBA, but just solid enough.
It just he won't be the top one percent defender
that Drew is. So it's a little harder to get away.
Speaker 1: With that, I think offensively because I think he'll be
better than defensively. It's like what is like a lesser
version or it's DeMar Derosen without the athleticism like live
from the mid range. But I think he's a really
like DeMar Rosen's passing over the last half decade or
six years for the most part, I feel like that's
a terrible comp But bub Carrington's given me a headache.
Now I'm trying to find a good comp for him. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had said, like Gabe Vincent coming out of Pittsburgh,
but he's not that kind of player now in the NBA,
So it's just, yeah, it's a weird analog. And I
think maybe that's why it's harder for me to envision
the ceiling with him, is I don't have a guy
to like point two and be like that's the you know,
the model I want you to follow.
Speaker 1: So before getting into kind of something, we'll call them
the accessorary accessory youngsters. Excuse me, this team just has
so many dudes. How do you see them going about
juggling playing time? Especially when they do have their on
expiring contracts probably won't be around long term. But you
have a CJ. McCollum, you have a Chris Middleton there
as well. So how do they also juggle that dynamic
of having two veterans who stood should still play.
Speaker 2: I think they're gonna have to pick their spots a
little bit with this and kind of ease into some
things like Chris Middleton is not going to play eighty
two games this year, even if he's on the Wizard
Truster the entire time, and nor should he. I don't
think his minutes are going to be as high as
they've been, you know in previous stops. The same kind
of thing for Chris Middleton, Like if you want to
extract trade value from those guys, you want to keep
them fresh and rested enough to help their new team.
So do neither of them play on second night so
back to backs, or do you alternate them and give
them kind of like more shift work between the two
of them, or you know, if they if they're even
a little sore one night, you just give him the
whole night off. Like there's no incentive to drive either
of these guys into the ground. It's can you show
that they're healthy enough to have some value for some
other team that may want to trade from them, and
then also extract like all the off court value you
know from them from a leadership perspective and things like that.
But they'll just make some of these guys lives easier
enough that you want to play them with a mix
of the young guys, Like I trust C J. McCollums
to mostly do the right thing on an NBA court.
Provide some spacing, you know, be an outlet offensively, you know,
do some of the ball handling, some of the creating.
Just make everybody a little lives a little bit easier.
Chris Milton's going to just shoot it at a reasonable clip.
I don't know if he can defend anybody anymore, but
maybe that's okay in Washington around some other athletic rangeye defenders.
So I think they're like it was gonna be bad,
like this may be the worst record in the league,
but like, so this is gonna sound stupid, Like they
may just be floor razors for their minutes when they're
on the court for everybody else, and I think that's valuable.
I would be shocked if both of them are on
the ross after the trade deadline, just because it doesn't
make a ton of sense to do that, and maybe
keep one of them just because they're happy to be
in that mentor phase of their career. You know, I
don't know where their heads are at, but at some
point I would love to see them find a way
to get Will Riley and guys like that some minutes,
you know, at least in the second half of the year.
So that's kind of a weak answer to your question,
I think, Dan, but like we'll see is sort of
the answer. And I don't really have a great enough
feel for Brian Keifyet to know how he'll make that work.
Speaker 1: Also, man, bub carry, you just learned from Chris Middleton.
That's a dude that never got to the room in
his prime. So and carry Paul Handler. So there you go.
The thing in clocking is that Chris Middleton and CJ.
McCollum are still here, not that there hasn't been a trade,
but because of the way the CBA works now, I
feel like we're gonna see more off season buyouts and
we Marcus Smart, DeAndre and being two examples. The fact
that they're still in Washington is least me believe one
of two things that the Wizards are prepared to make
some in season moves that I involve taking back salary
being compensated for it, or they really believe that these
are two guys who can rehabilitate their values where they're
getting value for them on the way out, where they're
not just these vehicles to take on more money. And
so still time for that to change, obviously, but that
is something that I've clocked a little bit just in
the age we are where it feels like these two guys,
I don't think, if we're being honest, I don't think
any of them wants to be on a team like
Washington right now. They'd rather be contending for a title.
And yes, they want to get paid. So maybe this
could also be a reflection of the market for them
where Marcus Smart and who's gonna wind up to the Lakers
And but it's just something that I've clocked because the
way it works, I could have seen one of them
maybe brokering a buy out before the season started.
Speaker 2: Whether it's them doing it themselves or who they talk
to in the local media, do it four of them
like this front office has not been afraid to sort
of let it slip that they're prioritizing sending veteran guys
to good situations. So I think from a good will perspective,
they've gotten now some track record to say, hey, just
be patient with us. We will try to send you
somewhere you can be in a good spot, Like, just
give us the time to try to get the most
possible out of it. And like I said up front
of it could maybe nitpick. They held onto a few
of these older guys a little too long and didn't
get the most value from them. But they seem content
to just play this thing all the way down to
the wire with guys, and when they do make a move, it's,
you know, we'll let Marcus Smart go early and go
be somewhere he wants to be. Or we'll send Kyle
Kuzma to a playoff contender, and I will send Jordan
Pool somewhere where they may have a blueprint of being
good enough, but he can also still be the man
and you know, shoot twenty times a game. So like
they're putting guys in situations where it seems like they
want to be. So if I'm I'm a Collum and
Middleton's agents I'm like, Okay, they'll take care of me,
so I can kind of just let this play out
a little bit.
Speaker 1: Can we go through some of your impressions on as
we'll call them, the accessor the accessory youngster?
Speaker 2: Can't I like accessorary announce with you like I think
that's the it's the new NBA term we discribed. And
I just saw something real quickly like poor Man's E
manual Quickly. Could that be where Carrington goes? Like that
kind of player.
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, like even Quickly just has like a
little bit more like aesthetic pop to him than what
Carrington is. But that would be like if he could
score like on the ball the way that A Manual
Quickly came from float range and like getting off those threes,
Like yeah, hell yeah, that would be a great outcome
for him. So let's start with how you feel about A. J. Johnson.
Speaker 2: I don't unfortunately, And.
Speaker 1: I was listening to your summer like really Reaction podcast.
You did not seem like you were an A. J.
Johnson guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just kind of don't see the vision personally.
It's like Hamadu Diallo two point zero, like the Wizards
tried to like see if there was anything there and
kick the tires on him because he was a Will
Dawkins guy. And okay, see, like you're basically a power
forward on offense, like you know, like there's not a
whole lot of like he's not like an elite ball
handler because he can't really break anybody. He doesn't get
anywhere with his ball handling, if that makes sense. Like
the dribble moves might be nice, but doesn't really shoot it.
It doesn't really play make much other than like in
fast breaks he may kind of like skip the ball
ahead a bit, but he's just so slender and hasn't
filled out at all yet through a couple of years.
That how does he guard like anybody at a high
level enough to like use those physical tools. So I
just can't I can't see the path forward for what
he is. And this team could use a guy that's
so explosive he can get into the paint, but like
teams aren't going to worry about that because he's just
going to bounce off of defenders and they're going to
sag off of him until he can shoot it enough.
So there's just there's too many things there that still
have to go along way that I can't really see
the vision.
Speaker 1: How I feel about Will Riley, who took a lot
more threes during Summer League than I was anticipating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the first game was rough, that was another tough
wizard's performance, and then the second game was apparently good
enough they felt content to kind of soft shut him down.
I know they attributed to like a thumb injury or whatever,
but you know they think they were okay with that
performance being the last time people saw him. I don't know.
I think he's a fine guy to take a flyer on,
another kind of guy that checks some boxes for them.
A little bit of a lake grower can do more
like as good positional size, has some playmaking potential longer
term here, and like can put the ball in like.
They want guys who can all pass, durable, shoot at
every position, which is a noble goal to be in
search of. So I think there's a long way to
go for him, and it's going to be like three
years before you can have like a real opinion on
what his deal is.
Speaker 1: I think if he gets any minutes, they won't be
short on guys who will make hustle plays. He seems
like that's going to be the type of player he'll be,
And maybe that's why they felt comfortable buying out Marcus
smart as they say, hey, look we got Will Riley,
but we don't mean Marcus Mark. Yeah, I'm kidding there.
If anybody did not know he's.
Speaker 2: He's an elite defender from day one, you know, it's
like the Spider Man, mean, between he and and some
of the elite defenders. I don't he tried a little
bit in Summer League to just be competitive on that end,
and I think that's the end. He's actually maybe further
away on like than the offense. So if this is
the kind of dude you want to take a flyer
on in the twenties, like, I'm never going to have
an issue with it. Dylan Jones completely out. Yeah, I
just don't. I don't get that one o case.
Speaker 1: He basically traded him twice, So I don't. I don't
blame you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not a great sign too, like some of
their buddies from Okay see, so maybe they were just
happy to give him a landing spot. I saw nothing
in Summer League to sort of change that opinion for me.
Just another guy where I just kind of can't see
what he is in the NBA, and I don't know
that there's enough space on this roster to give him
enough chances to figure it out. Like he was crazy
productive at we re stated, but he also had crazy
high volume and usage, Like he's never going to get
to do that on an NBA team. So I just
don't know what the other swing skills are there that
help him carve out and you know, a niche for himself.
Speaker 1: I do have a like a saft spot for Tristan Vuksovic,
and I'm kind of surprised that one it feels like
he's been on a two way for like eight years somehow,
I know that's not legal or possible, but also I'm
surprised that he wasn't converted yet. I know they have
a bunch of salaries on the roster, but I might
prefer to just have him at guaranteed money than Malachi Brandam.
At this point, he's it's so hard to judge.
Speaker 2: Actually, I think his game isn't all that hard to evaluate.
It's hard to evaluate their opinion of his game because
like they're keeping him around, so there's enough there that
they're intrigued. But you know, they drafted him, didn't feel
the need to bring him over, then brought him over
at the end. He played really well the final seven
games of the year, which is like full scold season,
so you can't read a whole into it, but he
did what they wanted him to do, and the cool
we're gonna convert you from a standard contract to a
two way after seven really good games, which you never see.
And then he came over like late before Summer League
and was like barely in shape enough to get up
and down the court. I don't know if it was
an injury, barely played his you know, his second summer league,
and they shut him down after like a half a game.
And then he didn't play for most of the first
two months of the season with a knee contusion, which
I've never seen a knee bruise keep somebody off the
court for months. He was just not great for the
go go early the G League team, and then kind
of came around at some point and was like super
productive on the offensive end and made some shots and
did some passing and you're like, oh, okay, like we're
back to seeing the vision to me. Ultimately, like best
case scenario, he's like a rotation big Can he be
Sandro Mama Kallaje Villi, you know, like one of those
kind of guys Like he does some exciting stuff offensively.
I just don't know who he guards either, so I'm
not gonna take it or leave it personally.
Speaker 1: Do you have any thoughts on Malachi Brandham, who seems
like if you put Cam Whitmore in a shrinking machine
and then had him not pan out as a player,
that's who. And look, I was in love with Brandham
after his rookie year. He's not like a trillion percent
on floaters. I was like, Oh, this dude, like he's
got then No, not since then. Nothing.
Speaker 2: Basically, he also strikes me as a guy that maybe
still has some like of the irrational confidence offensively left
over from like his college role, so I'm not mad
at it. In practice is like maybe he'll go out
and get buckets and give a tough cover for people
to cover, you know, in that setting. My hunches, he's
probably not an impactful member of this roster if he's
here longer term. Of the two guys they got, I
actually probably preferred Blake Wesley, the one who really moved
on from just from a like maybe he can be
a point of attack defender that they don't have a
ton of like guards to do that. But Brandon, I
don't think he's really ever going to guard anybody. And
is there enough offense there that it kind of offsets that,
you know, I don't know, but again, not a guy.
I'm mad at them taking a flyer on, like if
you think there's something there, like go go do it.
Speaker 1: I guess worst case scenario. And this isn't just about Brandom,
but the roster at large is they've probably created a
culture of competition to where it's if you're not going
to perform, like someone's right there to take your minute.
So there's probably some value in that.
Speaker 2: That's something the Wizards hadn't done well when they did
have young players in the past. It was just like
they could look left and right, it's like, Okay, that
guy's never going to take my minute, so I'm good.
I can just kind of do my thing. Like I
think the story, I think you nailed it. I think
that's been very intentional. Like I actually loved Jamiir Watkins,
their second round pick this year, maybe more than I
liked the Will Riley pick to be honest, even though
he went twenty spots earlier, because like, that's a dude
that is going to compete with people like the jump
and views himself better than anybody else views himself, so
like he's going to try to take lunch money from people,
and I think this team means that.
Speaker 1: I guess the only place where there wouldn't be a
cultural competition is the big man spots, like what have
we got sar Bagley and then maybe Buksovich And that's.
Speaker 2: That's really it at this point. Yeah, we might see
some small ball lineups with Keishawn George at the five.
You know, halfway through.
Speaker 1: The wa oh hey, you're talking to the right audience.
I'll watch a lot of Wizards game that comes to stable.
Are you ready to enter the cookie cutter portion of
the podcast? We've talked about a few of them, but
just as a review, what do you view as this
team's like single biggest need or weakness?
Speaker 2: The guy? I think this year's draft is really the
year to go get it. Like I'm really excited about
the twenty twenty six draft class and whether it's a
Darren Peterson to just be the break you down guard
or an Aj Debonsa can come in and be like
that elite playmaking scoring you know, tough bucket getting wing
or Cam Boozer can slot perfectly next to Alex Star.
Like they just need one really big, high level talent
infusion to kind of make all these other pieces work.
I think like if you could shift each of them
down one major slot in the pecking order, I think
it becomes a little easier to see. And then you
add one big time free agent like or trade partner,
you know, whoever's free agent.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what does that happen anymore?
Speaker 2: But that's that is now done. Yeah, that's an artifact
of the past, I think. But uh yeah, you can
salvage somebody from another team or distressed asset or whatever.
Like that's just probably where I think they need to
go and just shooting in general when this team's good again.
They can't do it with that front court that we
just talked about. Like Sar I think has that high
and defensive upside we talked about, but he's he's going
to get like bullied by certain bigs in the league,
the ones who bully everybody. But Marvin Bagley is not
a defender at this point, he's also not a shooter.
Vulksovic can't guard anybody. So like it's tough, right, Like
it's they're gonna have to get another guy in the
front court somewhere to be semi competitive, I think, is there.
Speaker 1: So when you're talking about the guy, if you had
to pick one that you believe has the best chance
of becoming out already on the roster between I'm assuming
it's Trey Sar and Kola Bali as of right now.
Who are you good? Unfair question without seeing Trey's rookie season,
But who would you identify right now?
Speaker 2: I just again, I like all of these guys, like
I like them a lot, and I think they could
all be like really good two through five on a
good team, you know, all things considered, I think Trey
is the guy that has the best shot at being
better than that just by process of elimination. Like, I
feel like I've seen enough of these other guys that
I know that there are There would be a lot
of things that have to go right for one of
them to turn into that guy. But they could be
like elite supporting members in that cast.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. But you know, you're kind of right, because
even if Kolibali turns into Jaalen Brown, I don't know
how many people I will find out this year. I
guess without Jason.
Speaker 2: Tatum or the one on a good team.
Speaker 1: Right, and then with Sar, it's okay even if he
turns into Anthony Davis, one of the biggest, like Danthy
Davis have been a top ten NBA player for a
like in a bunch of seasons. But he we tend
to associate and I don't. I don't think this is
incorrect to do so, like the guy needs to drive
your offense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, So that just that's I think you
just nailed it right, Like a lot so much would
have to go right for Alex Sar to be Anthony Davis,
and he's still best suited as your number two guy
on a team that's tough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hadn't given that. I've just been saying like,
oh yeah, like I could see anyone, and then it's
now you just made me, you know, recalibrate. I think
Wizards are fun. I'm down on the Wizards.
Speaker 2: Any of them, which I think is great, including Keishaw George,
who I would put in that mix too, Like I
really truly believe like they could all turn into a
third best guy on like that's they all have the
ceiling to do that on a really good playoff team,
which is great to have that many irons in the
fire that I don't think they've missed on any of
these picks so far, Like I'm not counting like Will
Riley and stuff like we haven't seen play yet, but
like I feel very confident Trey Johnson is going to
be a good NBA player. I feel very confident bubb
Belyle Kishan alex Ar will all be good NBA players.
So to have that hit rate to fill out the
roster around them, you just need somebody for them all
to orbit around.
Speaker 1: Now, I think, is there something flying under the radar
about this team strength, weakness, storyline whatever that deserves some shine.
Speaker 2: They're going to play really fast and there's a lot
of young fresh legs on this team, and Kyle Kuzma
was like actively point shaving for a portion of last season,
and Poole just like didn't like he tried but wasn't
going to like drive enough winning by himself just based
on the way he plays to make them, you know,
surprise anybody realistically. So this team was just less competitive
more nights last year than I expected, and I don't
see that being the case this year. I think this
is going to be a team that isn't gonna win
many games, but all the veteran teams in the league,
and I'm like, oh god, we got to play them
on like a cold January night, Like that's that's kind
of what I'm looking forward to, at least, just like
some chaos.
Speaker 1: Beginning with the starting lineup and then through the reserves.
Who ends up being the top ten most used players
on the squad.
Speaker 2: I think who it is to start the year and
who it is to finish the year probably looks very different.
That would be my hunch at the very least. So
like I don't know how much a guy like a
cam Wentmore is, like how heavily he's in the rotation early,
like I think he has to play. But I would
be very surprised if bub Carrington doesn't start, just giving
what we saw last year. I think Cool almost certainly
starts given what we saw last year. I think alex
Are definitely starts, given that there's just no one else
that could theoretically start on an NBA team in you know,
in the front court here, So that's pretty interesting. Is
there a world where Trey Johnson could start right out
of the gate, We'll see c McCombs okay with coming
off the bench, or do they want to show him
enough to play? Is Chris Middleton just gonna stay healthy
enough to be consistently the starting you know, three or
four on this team, or do they go with Keishawn
George because he's ready to take the jump. Like my
gut is you start McCollum and probably Middleton definitely one
of the two of them, probably both early, and then
they're slowly maybe not even that slowly supplanted by Trey
Uh and Keishaan would be my next best get. I
think Corey Kissburg is probably the most likely to get
traded guy on the roster because it.
Speaker 1: Seems like he can get squeezed pretty easily out of
the rotation just because they have so many dudes, and
what is he to them long term?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Like they they definitely I can't really afford to
give up guys who can shoot yet. But if CJ
makes enough shots, if Trey makes enough shots, if Keyshan
makes the jump, I think if Middleton makes some shots
like he becomes pretty expendable. So I'd love to you know,
behind the scenes, people like you have Justin Champagne is
like maybe the first guy off right, Like it's I
just can't see them not finding a way to get
him minutes at some point during the year because he
was just so such a positive contributor and just the
guys seem to have fun playing next to him, so
that that's gonna be interesting. But dude, do the cam
wentmore or Justin Champennie guy, Like do they kind of
cannibalize each other's minutes in a roster like that? Like
it's probably one of the two of them plays meaningful minutes,
and is it the incumbent or the guy with the
higher pedigree? Curious to kind of see how that battle
shakes out a little bit more. And then Baggley just
has to play by virtue of you need someone else
over six foot eight to play minutes on an NBA team.
Speaker 1: Now if you decide you don't, that opens up a
lot of different parts, Like Corey kisspertend Justin Champette can play.
Speaker 2: I'm all about it, Like, just give me that forty
minutes a game. It would be cool.
Speaker 1: Uh, this is always to some extent matchup dependent, but
what do you think will be Let's say, by the
time the season ends, what do you think is going
to be their most used closing unit.
Speaker 2: I hope it's Trey Johnson, Bug Carrington, Belana, Coolboli Keishan,
George Alexar. That would be my hope personally, Like, I
think that's a fun group and it's you know, Johnson
can shoot like everybody except maybe sorry and cool Bally
can definitely shoot in the other two or at least
threats to do it. So could you potentially play fast
and five out and be fairly switchable like that would
be the lineup I would enjoy seeing games close, you know,
more often than that.
Speaker 1: I think part of me that if you really wanted
to get like ultra switchable, like let's throw Justin Champagnie
in there for Trey Johnson, I don't know what that
does to your offense, but oh.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think that though.
Speaker 1: Is there a weird o lineup you want to see
Brian Keith try this season?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I was thinking about this one a little bit.
I think it's some combination of Trey Johnson at the
one next to Kolabali, Kim Whitmore, Keishawn, George, and then
like Champagny would be cool. But like maybe it's probably
just still Alexar. But but even that I think is
kind of just intriguing. But to me, if you just
took like all of the six foot five to six
foot eight guys on this roster and put them out
there together at one time, I would just personally enjoy
seeing how that plays out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you sold me on that. I probably would have went.
I could have went with something different, but it needs
to be like Koli Bali, Kishan, George, cam Whitmore. Let's
just throw Chris Middleton and Justin Champagnie in there.
Speaker 2: Done that and that would be that'd be at least
weird enough to be something other teams would kind of
like eyebrow raise you for. So I want to see that.
Speaker 1: The problem with that exercise for the Wizards is that
they're so barren of big men after alex Are that
it becomes inherently hard to build a weird line up
in the sense that well, no, like Brian Kea just
might have to play that unit. Anybody might not have
a choice.
Speaker 2: I mean we could go the other way and just
go like with the least athletic group you could think of,
and just put you know, uh CJ McCollum, Corey Kispert,
Chris Middleton, Marvin Bagley, and Tristan Vuksovich out there together
or something like that.
Speaker 1: That would be something that be something good.
Speaker 2: But it would be five people on a basketball court.
At the very least.
Speaker 1: I think they'd be able to limit their turnovers. It's
about that. It might be fun. Yeah, before I ask
you for some prediction, prediction, is there anything any one
about this team we haven't discussed that you think warrants
some spotlight.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think I mentioned him already, so I'm
just going to do it again. I I have a
weird high that like Jimmy or Watkins is gonna find
a way to get some minutes for this group. I
just think he'll be a guy that could see them
finding some kind of role for essentially, Like he just
plays so hard and is gonna be just super competitive,
and I feel like that's a thing they'll probably want
to reward. They also just love Anthony Gill, so like
he will play minutes for this team. He might actually
be the third big air quotes on this team.
Speaker 1: So he's like, there, get well, if he's actually gonna play,
he's not. But he's basically their Garrett Temple at this point.
Speaker 2: He's there Garrett Temple, Yadanis Haslam, you know.
Speaker 1: Like, but he's gonna play.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Like everybody would love to see him on
the bench in a polo shirt, but he just is
intent to keep playing, so more power to him. But
like he'll he will get minutes for this team at
some point during the season, so we'll.
Speaker 1: See what what is he know very little about him.
What is he offensively?
Speaker 2: Though he is not Unfortunately, he's just like a very solid,
play hard energy, do the right thing, like would captain
the winning team at the YMCA, you know every time
kind of guy. And I'm not trying to disparag him,
like he's a YMCM player, but you know what I mean,
like just the dude that doesn't look flashy, but his
groups keep winning games because he does smart stuff like
that's coach on the floor, like all those kind of
bad cliches. Unfortunately, but they brought him in because he
had one crazy season to shooting the ball overseas and
they thought he was like a sniper, and he's not
shot more than like twenty percent in a season with
the Wizards, despite being a stretch forward. But he is
like a Tony Bennett uva guy, and he'll just do
Tony Bennett uv A guy things, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, he's how old is he's always twenty four?
Speaker 2: Right, Anthony Gilkey?
Speaker 1: Oh no, not Anthony gil.
Speaker 2: Oh you mentioned here Watkins. Oh sorry, sorry, I was
meant take back everything I just said the last ten
seconds before that. Jimmie Watkins is old. He's maybe almost
as old as Anthony gill He's like a six foot five,
twenty four or twenty five year old, six year college
player that's just going to be skinny and but tough
defensively and cause havoc and run the floor and try
to dunk on guys and take their hearts out of
their chest while they're still beating but not being quite
good enough to do it yet. And the nice thing
is he just got to the free throw line a
ton at Florida State. And I think that at the
very least can still translate. So we'll see.
Speaker 1: I'm so old. He can be a member of one
of the small ball units.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1: I take that done. So how many wins do you
see this team ultimately ending up with factory in that?
Will they steer out of wins at some point? And
where do you see them landing in the Eastern Conference overall?
Speaker 2: Yeah, eighteen is the number I've been going with, like
exactly eighteen. I don't know why that's the number, It
just feels like it needs to be the number just because, Yeah,
there you mentioned with the steering out of winds at
some point point, like they may just organically be bad
because they're small, and maybe that's why they were content
to not add any front court players to this team.
But they won eighteen games last year, and it just
feels like that's exactly and they were fifteen year before
that though, but it just seems like they're probably on
paper about the same like kind of team. So this
is the draft class to like, you kind of let
yourself slip a little bit at the end of last year,
so you know, you probably need to do a better
job this year. But then they're may be just not
as much competition for that worst spot, So maybe eighteen
wins keepshit in the bottom three and that's good enough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because the only team that's trying to be what
they are in the East right now is Brooklyn and
that's pretty much it. And I don't even know of
all the teams that even people might be low on,
whether it's the Bulls or the Heat or the Raptors,
I don't see any of those teams having the floor
that Brooklyn or Washington. I would be more worried about
Washington racking up too many late season victories though, just
if you have those teams that are kind of out
of the plane, sure, and they've decided to do the
late season punt, Washington just has get rid of the veterans.
You're just left with a bunch of guys who are
going to play their asses off. And that's that not concerning,
but that could be something that hurts their draft stock.
Speaker 2: I think that just again, the front court being that
on like underdeveloped, just kind of prevents that from happening
to a certain extent. Like you're just small and you
can't rebound. It's just hard to win games, even when
you're trying harder to win games than the teams you're
playing against. So they did a little bit of that
last year. I think and like, you know, bub Carrington
had his hero moment in the last game of the
season and won them a game, and like, but they
they still just dropped to the second worst record in
the league. So it like even factoring that in, I
still think they're probably safely in that bottom three mix.
Speaker 1: At least, can I get one additional wizard's prediction from you,
Matt mcderno, It could be anything that you want take
wherever you want to go.
Speaker 2: Kind of already said it. I'm really expecting a kish
On George Bump that that to me feels like a
guy that's gonna have enough opportunity and the skill set
is there of somebody that like they will they will
give him chances as a guy who can pass reubleshoot
and and will put an effort defensively and get a
bunch of steels and some runouts that will kind of
maybe sneak his way up into more points per game
than people think. And if kol Bali can stay healthy
and do what I think I can do, like if
if he were in like could he make second team
All Defense at the end of the year conversations at
least that wouldn't shock me either.
Speaker 1: I do wonder might be overthinking it when you mentioned
kish On George and how we feel about alex are
kool Bali, there's like a chance that they're kind of
like the way Portland last year, like the flip the
script flip for them defensively and they were all of
sudden like one of the best defense in the league
for a really long periods. Does that team have this
potential or is it just they at least had clinging
and Kamara is a friggin beast, But I mean Kamara
got all defense consideration of cool, Bali gets it. I
wonder if this team has that. Portland does have a
lot more size when you're looking at like what they
were running with their big man rotation. Though, I think
Jeremy gran can't rebound though, and he played a lot
of minutes, so there's that too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you had Denny out there and things
like that too, And like there's just a few more
guys I think that are ahead of where those guys
are on the Wizards. I could see that two seasons
from now when they put a few more pieces on
the roster to like not even try to take that jump.
They're just ready to do it. So this year, I
just don't think this front office will let them. I
think they know, like the twenty twenty six draft is
just like objectively going to be better than the twenty
twenty seven draft, and they don't want to be bad
again in twenty twenty seven, So like, just fully commit
to being bad this year no matter what. Get your
top three or four guy, and then like we're talking
about the beginning kind of then go all in you
know from seasons.
Speaker 1: After that, Matt, this was great. Thank you so much
for your time. Are you able to just to tell
our listeners viewers where they could find you and all
the great work that you do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me. I promise to be a
little more positive this year just because I am more
so hopefully that that came across. Like I'm excited about
all the irons this team has in the fire. And yeah, Dan,
I'm a listener to the show.
Speaker 1: So I've said, oh, we know that one clip you
put were the quote sweet when more went off about
Cooper Flag. I loved it, by the way, so fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just Wizards fans like certain things to get
Ben out of shape about. So you know, we look
for that. But I love what you guys do, so
being on here is super cool for me. So thanks
for having me. If you want some more Wizard centric content,
it's Believing Wizards myself and Johanni White and you want
to read about the Wizards because you're a psycho head
over to Bulls Forever. Were happy, happy to have anybody
who wants to get on the bandwagon. Early.
Speaker 1: No, this team might look this team might be a
good league past team, thank you, in terms of good
reasons to where they might have had the comedic factor
with Kyle Kuzman, Jordan Poole before this is you make jokes,
but like, yeah, there's gonna come March. People probably are
gonna want to watch a lot of Wizards games maybe,
but like this, he feels like it could be really fun.
And if I said that last year, just I hope
everyone forgot about it, because I don't think I did.
Speaker 2: If we talked about that last year, I didn't feel it.
This year, I like truly feel it. Where like they
I think they will lose a lot of closer games
this year, but like push good teams hard and that
should equate to like pond basketball.
Speaker 1: Matt, thank you, so much for all your time again,
and as you know by now, I'll be pestering you
again in the future. Thanks so much, and until next
time to everyone. Shout out to the one the only
fun enough to be on the Wizards if they were smart,
mister Frank Neeli Keenan