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Speaker 1: Bopp Ship Shop Shop, Boots Shop, and stoop Step Shoots.

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Speaker 2: All right, welcome yet again. You're here with me Jay

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Dyer from Jay's Analysis, and Nina Byzantina joins us once again.

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Speaker 3: She was with us a couple of years ago. We

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talked history, we talked the history.

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Speaker 2: Of Russia, and lately she's been doing some different materials.

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She's doing material on the human predator. Nina, how are you?

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Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. I'm doing well.

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Speaker 5: As I was just telling you, I'm a little bit

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self sleep deprived. So if I sound like Joe Biden,

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it's not dementia, it's sleep deprivation.

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Speaker 2: So just to clarify, well, yes, if I start talking

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nonsense gibberish, would you feel more at home?

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Speaker 4: Like absolutely?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So yes, this is a little bit of a departure.

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Speaker 5: And as a side note, I'm still considering doing something

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more along the lines of geopolitics and Russia related politics.

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But as you know, with all the censorship on these platforms,

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it's a little bit of a tricky yeah, a little

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bit of a tricky subject to be able to disseminate

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certain types of information that doesn't quite fit the mainstream narrative.

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Speaker 4: But at the same time as mainstream enough to to

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not be banned basically.

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Speaker 5: So I'm still thinking about it, and I would love

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to do it, but you know, so far, I'll just

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stick to Twitter.

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Speaker 4: So, yes, this is definitely not my usual subject.

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Speaker 2: So let's yeah, let's move into that. So now you

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want to empower all of the wine moms out there

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to be able to do their own home diagnosis of

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everybody and their family to be aychopath. Absolutely no, but

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that is what happens. Like was clicking on YouTube and

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they're like, then suddenly everybody in the family is a psychopath.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: It's like if you have a cough and you google

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the symptoms, you probably nowadays think coronavirus, which yes, you

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probably do not. Yeah, it's there is definitely is that

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downside to kind of more clickbait type content regarding the

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subject of personality disorders in the cluster b or simply

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I like to call them human predators. Other people like

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to call them toxic people, manipulators, dysfunctional personalities. I think

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there's a I actually really like this book by former

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FBI agent Joan of Arrow. He calls them dangerous personalities.

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So it's kind of like that same premise that we

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stay away from diagnosing people because we're not mental health professionals.

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And at the same time, I think it's very helpful

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to outline certain traits that are harmful in interpersonal relationships,

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in the workplace, in the family, romantic relationships, and.

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Speaker 4: They're harmful across the board over the long term. So

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it's not you know, one off incidents.

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Speaker 6: That you're saying that if I watched enough of the

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doctor Phil videos that I could give a qualified analysis.

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Speaker 5: That It's funny that you mentioned this, because there's some

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pretty interesting analyses of doctor Phil being somewhat narcissistic. So

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if you wanted to go down the rabbit hole of

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other people analyzing Doctor Phil after this, I'm.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it totally is. It's it's pretty interesting.

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Speaker 3: So all right, so let's talk about some of your

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early videos.

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Speaker 2: So you started after you had read a bunch on

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the topic, and and I did enjoy all your I

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watched all the videos. So you're not coming from an

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advantage point of attempting to pass yourself off as anything.

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You're just trying to give an honest analysis of your

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own personal research based on you know, multiple books, and

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I guess what a few years of looking into this topic.

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So let's start with like the first red flags. That

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doesn't have to be any specific numbers, but what are

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the red flags that you notice in a human predator

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that that's that come out at the beg at the

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get go.

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Speaker 5: Well, the red flags are It really depends on a situation.

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But for instance, if someone has certain narcissistic traits and

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it doesn't matter whether they qualify for a clinical diagnosis,

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you would notice either excessive grandiosity and the way this

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would be presented. Let's say you are going to a

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restaurant with a friend or you know, romantic prospect.

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Speaker 4: This person is not going to treat the weight staff

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well or the cab driver.

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Speaker 5: They may denigrate them to kind of place themselves above

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this person, and it might be done in really subtle ways.

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Speaker 4: So you might write this off that you know, he

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or she is.

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Speaker 5: Having a bad day, that's why he's being mean to

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the cab driver, or he's making the waiter pronounce the

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name of the wine correctly because he or she thinks

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this is not the way you pronounce the name of

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the wine. But literally, these things when they happen kind

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of here and there are probably something that you are

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not going to pay attention to unless you have had

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your own negative personal and.

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Speaker 3: It's pronounced frons. Yeah, and it's the finest of the

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boxed wine, believe.

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Speaker 4: It or not.

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Speaker 5: I have witnessed and I have heard of situations like this,

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and I know what other behaviors the individuals I'm thinking

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of engaging. So it actually does happen. So and you know,

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obviously a lot of times it happens with the person

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who is narcissistic, who is an in a position of power,

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So for them to denegrate the service staff, you know,

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that really says a lot, because by definition they're above them,

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so to speak, in terms of social status. So you

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would notice things like that. You would notice the fact

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that they might not be the most punctual person. And

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of course, you know, some of us are late.

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Speaker 4: Once in a while.

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Speaker 5: It happens, and eventually you realize it happens all the time.

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And basically the premise here is we do not start

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until I get here. So a lot of the red

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flags could be, you know, things that you will write

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off from the beginning. You would notice that this person

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may have a short fuse, but it would be over

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minor issues. This person would really get angry and it

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would be disproportionate to the subject at hand. Then this

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person would cool down, maybe even apologize and own that

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incident by saying, oh, I need to work on this.

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I realize this is a flaw. You would actually probably

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be pressed, Oh my gosh, he or she actually has

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this amazing level of self reflection. So the point here

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is that the red flags might be really minor in

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the beginning, and you always kind of have to look

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at the context and how often they happen, and look

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at them over the long term. So I think one

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of the most common things for narcissism in a romantic

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relationship if you've binge watched the narcissism videos, is love bombing,

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where you meet your romantic prospect and all of a

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sudden your soulmates within a week. You know, things that

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are kind of disproportionate are moving too fast. So it

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really depends on whether this is you know, boyfriend, girlfriend, boss,

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family member, and so forth. So yes, in the very beginning,

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if this is a new person, it might not be obvious,

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which is which is why the lack of public education

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about the subject as kind of a street smarts type

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is pretty pretty remarkable.

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Speaker 2: Love the love bombing of course comes up in the

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subject of cults, and we've done a lot of his

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views and discussions on cult leaders.

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Speaker 5: It's actually amazing because a lot of that psychology is

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the same, including YouTubers who are not psychologists but who

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have researched, a lot of a subject is actually directly

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linked to cults. So a lot of the terminology comes

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is directly lifted from cult psychology.

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Speaker 2: One question before you move on, as you're talking about

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the red flags about this this, these uh, these characteristics.

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Is there a specific distinction in your mind between excessive

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grandiosity and a God complex? Does every narcissist have the

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God complex or not? Necessarily?

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Speaker 5: Well, officially, according to the diagnostic criteria, there are two

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types of types of narcissisms, and they're not necessarily in

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two completely separate boxes. So as one person over the

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course of the lifetime who is very disordered might actually

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go from one to the other, so one is grandiose

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and one is vulnerable.

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Speaker 4: So it would actually be.

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Speaker 5: In the ways displayed to the public, this person would

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actually seem almost shy and actually self denigrating, whereas kind

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of behind the scenes, they would perceive themselves as superior

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to everyone else. And it's actually something that comes up

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a lot with I did that little video on in

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Cells and I had it's a new channel, very gorilla,

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So it was kind of funny to get a lot

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of hate mail because it clearly struck a chord when

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I talked about the vulnerable narcissistic traits in some of

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the more pronounced in cell characters, things you see on

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message boards and of course in the news media.

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Speaker 4: So there are the two types of narcissisms. But I

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think the.

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Speaker 5: Problem with despite this newer public education on YouTube, which

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some of which involves actual mental health professionals, most people,

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when you say narcissists, they think, oh, it's someone who

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likes to.

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Speaker 4: Look in the mirror.

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Speaker 5: Oh well, it's someone who likes to take selfies, and

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that is grandiose, although it's it's a little bit more

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murky nowadays because everyone has social media, and you know,

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you and I are on social media as you know,

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more so for you as a public figure, so it's

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almost like you're required to post the occasional selfie.

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Speaker 4: Even if you have absolutely no need for that validation.

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So but regardless of that.

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Speaker 5: Let's let's say you do need to be validated by

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posting photos of yourself and everyone says how good looking

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you are. That's one of the least harmful traits of narcissism,

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and sadly what people think without researching it that that's

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what that is.

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Speaker 4: And when people when if you were to say.

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Speaker 5: Who's a psychopath, they would say, oh, Ted Bundy, serial killers.

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They're not going to say a banker, Hollywood producer, a ceo,

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a politician. Whereas in reality, the most successful psychopaths, I mean,

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they may not be at the highest rating of the

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psychopathy checklist, but they may be you know, they may

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be subclinical or just qualifying for that for that box

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mental health box, but they're actually successful as opposed to

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the guys who are in prison, who are less successful.

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Speaker 4: That's why they're in prison. So again in terms of

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you know, in terms of disseminating this kind of information,

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it's really lacking.

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Speaker 5: So if you think about I don't know if you've

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heard of him, doctor Robert Hare, who is the seminal

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figure in Canadian mental health, and he's world renowned and

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he's the man who established the psychopathy checklist, which is

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used in prison analysis and so forth. A lot of

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his popular books stayed to the same thing, and he says,

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you know, I've spent decades researching psychopaths in prison. Had

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I not done this, I should have gone to the

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Vancouver Stock Exchange, which is a pretty scary thing to

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think about. So, you know, one of his very useful

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books is called Snakes and Suits, and it's about the

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psychopath in the workplace.

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Speaker 4: And people do not do they do not think about that.

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They do not think that, you know, you do Hollywood

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stuff a lot.

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Speaker 5: They do not think that the Hollywood producer, director, actor

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may be somewhat psychopathic, or the politician might.

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Speaker 4: Be somewhat psychopathic.

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Speaker 5: Or if you're interested, you could google Hillary Clinton and

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psychopathy and see some of these analyzes, which are not diagnoses,

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but they're analyzes.

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Speaker 4: There's some interesting stuff specifically about.

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Speaker 5: Her in and psychopathy by people who are kind of

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analyzing public information.

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Speaker 4: So that's certainly not what comes to mind.

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Speaker 2: People are saying because he's the non psychop.

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Speaker 5: The only which is which is why he's he's always

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kept away from from the center of psychopathy. But yeah,

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I mean, it's the regular man on the street would

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say Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bondy. He's not going to

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say the politician, the journalist, you know, the Hollywood producers.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's a great point. Let me ask a couple

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of weird questions. So are you familiar with the reddit

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designation from some years back of the ham Planet?

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Speaker 5: I am not, but I'm actually looking into Reddit because

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it's pretty fascinating.

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Speaker 4: So what deserve for too?

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Speaker 2: So this was the name that the redditors of ten

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years ago gave to the extremely overweight people. And this

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is the people who tend to, like you know, can't

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get out of the bed and they have to ride

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the scooter everywhere they go. They have to get out

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of a van in a scooter to go to Walmart

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in a scooter. You know what I mean? This kind

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of person. And what was interesting about this whole long

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thread on Reddit I read a whole bunch of it

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after Jamie had sent it to me one night, was

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that a.

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Speaker 3: Lot of people had noticed that the people who have these.

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Speaker 2: Health issues and that are this big a lot of

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times they were they didn't have the mindset and the

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attitude that you would expect. You might expect that they

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all had a very sort of uh oh, I have

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no self esteem, and but actually quite a few of

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them were the opposite. They were the vulnerable narcissists who

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were extreme manipulative and extremely entitled and like everything that

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I deserve a call I deserve, excalate, I deserve like.

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Speaker 3: Everything is owed to them, and they had it. It's

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just bizarre.

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Speaker 2: It's not what you would expect.

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Speaker 5: Well, I've there's also kind of this opposite theory, which

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is a lot more sad, and I don't know if

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statistical studies have been done, but if you look at

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books like The Body Keeps Score, which talks about trauma,

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it's and other popular books, it's actually very hard to read.

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Speaker 4: It's disturbing.

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Speaker 5: It talks about people with very serious issues, possibly experiencing

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sexual abuse as children, and so that is their way

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to make themselves less attractive by basically.

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Speaker 4: Putting on more and more weight. And there there are

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some studies.

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Speaker 5: Again, I don't think the subject has been sufficiently researched,

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but it's it's actually very disturbing if you think about

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the way our culture promotes body positivity beyond any reason nowadays,

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and sometimes you see people who clearly likely have psychosomatic issues.

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That's it's clearly not just a way to show basically validating,

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you're basically validating someone who possibly could have been sexually

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abused as a child.

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Speaker 7: Interesting too, Yeah, so because doctor Phil said that the

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other day, Yes, I got on an addicted I got

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addicted the other day to watching like twenty Doctor Phil

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clips in a row.

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Speaker 2: And that's why I keep that.

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Speaker 4: One of them was they're certainly advertised to me, and

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it's it's I.

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Speaker 3: Think they're funny, like I die laughing and happy.

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Speaker 5: I'm sure what's more disturbing that he still has a

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show or the fact that I would get those ads

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in my feed, so obviously we're getting the same advertising.

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Speaker 2: Well, he said, there was a guy who was one

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of these hand planet people who couldn't.

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Speaker 3: Couldn't stop.

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Speaker 2: But the weird part was that he went on one

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of these TV shows and he got famous for being,

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you know, the greatest loser, and he lost like five

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hundred pounds. He became a trainer, and then he got

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the way all back. He gained it all back and

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got back to being like seven hundred pounds. And that's

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exactly what doctor Phil said. So I know you're right,

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because dark Field backs you up and.

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Speaker 6: You know, and he said, you are putting a layers

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of coats, You're just adding another coat, yeah, on top

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of a coat.

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Speaker 5: If you think about the cultural implications of taking body

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positivity to kind of an irrational extent, it has some

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pretty disturbing implications.

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Speaker 4: And I know you like to dive down the rabbit

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hole of you know, pedophiles in Hollywood, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 5: So if you think about the way that is being

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promoted thereby validating possible sexual abuse, I mean I find

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that disturbing.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, did you ever see that Russian film Branded.

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Speaker 4: I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: The critics bombed. I think they bombed because it kind

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of had a positive message. But the part of the

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message of the film was that a lot of the

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corporate elite were actually intentionally promoting the quote body positive

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message to fatten up the stupid population. It was actually

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the premise of the film.

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Speaker 4: So anyway, Yeah, I mean I think you could. Yeah,

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I mean I think you can.

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Speaker 5: You can analyze it in many different ways, and you

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probably wouldn't be too far from what's happening. It's a

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little bit more complex than the single reading.

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Speaker 4: But actually what I wanted to do is to kind

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of bring this closer to you.

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Speaker 5: I noticed that a lot of times you validate the

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trolls who attack you. Now, as someone who is also

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on Twitter, I know sometimes it is a very good

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social media strategy because you can mock them. You could

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bring attention saying the accusations are and that gives you

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additional attention and it promotes your message, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: Et cetera. So I understand all that, and I sometimes

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do the same.

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Speaker 5: But I would say that, in my opinion, you validate

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too many trolls. And it might sound like a very

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captain obvious thing to say, oh, well, don't.

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Speaker 4: Feed the trolls.

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Speaker 5: We've all heard this, But if you think about what

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their purpose is, their purpose is probably twofold on threefold.

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One is attention seeking, So it doesn't matter what the

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attention is. Yes, when you retweet them and you make

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fun of them, the attention from your followers is going

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to be negative, but they're not concerned whether it's positive

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or negative. They're just interested in that narcissistic supply, so

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you're giving it to them. Number two, they're wasting your

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time and I think that's also very important. So I

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think when you especially when they attack not your professional

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life but your personal life personally, I would think of

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them as being disordered or maladaptive, maybe subclinically, and I.

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Speaker 4: Would not give them what they want good advice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I mean, again, it sounds like Captain obvious, but when

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you actually think the psychology of trolling, there's some very

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interesting No.

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Speaker 2: No, you had a video where you mentioned this. Yeah,

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you mentioned this in the in Cell video, And actually

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I didn't even think about applying that to my own situation.

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I just thought about it theoret because I always think

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in theory, I don't oftentimes apply things to my practical life.

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And that's kind of the reason I want to do

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this talk is because what you say does apply. So

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I appreciate that. And you did mention something in the

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video about how the person who does the sort of

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trolling as a way to achieve validation is actually doing

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it under the guise of I forget how you worried it,

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but you were talking about how it appears that they're

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undermining and cruciale, but actually what they're doing is achieving

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a kind of validation and narcissistic supplies. I think what

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you said it, Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I mean there's one particular psychologist on YouTube whom I like,

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and I think he's a master's of psychology, So once again,

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you know, he's not just a l a person like me.

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And he has a number of videos where he analyzes

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public figures along the political spectrum. So he talks about

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on the quote unquote very fit quotation marks Bravic as

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a mass shooter, having been diagnosed officially in his trial

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with the narcissistic personality disorder, and then he contrasts him

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with I can't believe that video is still up with

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social justice warriors, and he basically talks about the fact

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that the most aggressive ones display many many of the

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signs of vulnerable and covert narcissism where they want to

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erase these hierarchies, not because they're achieving a particular or

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political goal but yes, yeah, but.

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Speaker 4: Because they're actually fulfilling.

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Speaker 5: A certain reality that is a little bit twisted in

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their mind and kind of fulfilling their own hidden, grandiose

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fantasies about where they should actually be in terms of

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social status.

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Speaker 2: So that's the same with the overreaction to women. That

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was kind of the point of your whole video on

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that phenomena, was that criticizing the modern e girl is

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one thing, but the movement into like the irrational hatred

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of women, which is where that movement goes a lot

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of times, is absolutely insane.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and I tried to be careful of my disclaimers,

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saying that most likely most people you encounter who are

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maladaptive are probably subclinical, and this applies to kind of

397
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exaggerated cases. But obviously that particular comment really struck a

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chord with these individuals, which was actually one of my points,

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that they're hyper sensitive. That's one of the traits of

400
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covert or vulnerable narcissism. And getting some hate mail was

401
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pretty interesting validation in that regard, because, like I said,

402
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it's a brand new channel in the sense that I'm

403
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doing it in a very gorilla way. I'm using an

404
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old smartphone to record. I need to upgrade all that.

405
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But yeah, so that was that was very validating.

406
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Speaker 2: Right, Are there any more red flags? Before we move

407
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on to the ideas of some of the other videos

408
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that you mentioned, the other major traits that stick out, like.

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Speaker 5: Well, you should look at the person's life history. Now

410
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,160
it's not again, we're thinking about a new person that

411
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you're meeting. It's not always possible to, you know, hire

412
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a private investigator, but you should look at the way

413
00:25:48,599 --> 00:25:51,400
they treat their friends. Do they have any friends, Do

414
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they move around a lot, do they move around a

415
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lot because there was a legitimate reason because their job

416
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has moved them, or do they burn bridges in and

417
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basically destroy any interpersonal relationships they have had in the

418
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previous community.

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Speaker 4: So they're sort of are are they charming?

420
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Speaker 2: Now?

421
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 5: You know, naturally people are attracted to someone, and I

422
00:26:14,759 --> 00:26:21,079
would differentiate between naturally charismatic and charming where it's very superficial,

423
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and a lot of times at social events people are charming,

424
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and it's not easy.

425
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Speaker 4: It's not always easy to tell whether.

426
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Speaker 5: They're basically just trying trying to fit in at the

427
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,799
social event or whether they're trying.

428
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Speaker 4: To achieve a particular goal. But I am now very

429
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wary of people who are charming, and I would actually

430
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,079
I would like to have them at my party, but

431
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I would not want to have them in my life

432
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as let's say, a long term friend or something like that.

433
00:26:50,319 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 5: So again, these things are kind of more subtle like

434
00:26:54,799 --> 00:26:58,240
charm is more subtle. Insulting a cab driver is more subtle.

435
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,480
I would look at that there if something more obvious

436
00:27:03,599 --> 00:27:07,680
with grandios narcissism. How entitled they are? Do they feel

437
00:27:07,759 --> 00:27:11,039
like they need the best seat at the restaurant? Do

438
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,319
they feel like they should not wait in line? Do

439
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,839
they cut lines? Are they trying to make decisions for

440
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,599
you where it's inappropriate and you've just met them?

441
00:27:20,319 --> 00:27:22,839
Speaker 2: Right? But what you what do you do when you're

442
00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:24,880
somebody like me and you're in a situation where you

443
00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:28,119
actually are entitled to that best seat in the restaurant?

444
00:27:28,759 --> 00:27:30,559
Speaker 4: How do you should talk to You should talk to

445
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,720
doctor Phil and see how he he deals with not

446
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,720
being granted that at all times.

447
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,759
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna tweet doctor Phil tomorrow that question.

448
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:41,279
Speaker 4: You should look at it.

449
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,079
Speaker 5: If they're hostile and irritable, again, there might be a

450
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,079
reasonable explanation, like they're sleep deprived and overworked, but it

451
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,559
might actually be a very bad sign. And again, you're

452
00:27:52,599 --> 00:27:56,799
looking at all of these things in a complex over

453
00:27:57,519 --> 00:28:00,400
however long you know this person, is this repeated the behavior?

454
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:05,119
Is this behavior escalating? Is it getting worse? So depending

455
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:10,039
on whether we're talking about family members or a romantic

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00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,920
relationship or a boss, it would be a little bit

457
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,960
different with what you're seeing. So is this person deceitful?

458
00:28:17,599 --> 00:28:22,160
Is this person trashing every ex girlfriend, ex boyfriend, I

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mean every single.

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Speaker 4: One, everybody in their life?

461
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:29,839
Speaker 1: Yeah?

462
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 2: Exactly?

463
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,799
Speaker 5: Is this person always cynical and making snarky jokes? Again,

464
00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:41,079
sometimes that may not mean anything, but if there are

465
00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:43,960
other traits. I mean, I used to make snarky jokes

466
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,119
and then I did a little bit of engaging in

467
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,559
self reflection and I realized it's not a very good thing.

468
00:28:50,039 --> 00:28:53,240
But you know, again, we're looking at the long term,

469
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,400
the patterns and the other traits, but it begins with

470
00:28:56,559 --> 00:29:00,799
really small things that you might not even can unless

471
00:29:00,839 --> 00:29:04,759
you look look at these you know, multiple YouTube videos

472
00:29:04,839 --> 00:29:07,960
and psychology today and all this popular information that's out there.

473
00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 2: So okay, what about the uh is? What about covert narcissism?

474
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,519
So how's this different from.

475
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,559
Speaker 5: Overt Well, some of the traits are the same, and

476
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:27,079
in terms of diagnostic criteria, I believe, if I understand

477
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:33,839
it correctly, currently only grandiose narcissism gets the diagnosis of NPD.

478
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:39,039
Although vulnerable, the vulnerable current counterpart is recognized, not as

479
00:29:39,079 --> 00:29:41,799
a diagnosis, and it could be equally harmful, but in

480
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,400
other ways. So there is that same sense of self importance,

481
00:29:46,519 --> 00:29:49,599
but it's not projected outward. This is not a bombastic

482
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,720
public speaker who you know presents this this image of

483
00:29:55,359 --> 00:29:57,839
being larger than life. This is someone who might actually

484
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,799
come across as meek and who will always complain about having,

485
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,680
you know, being slighted. Everywhere they go, everyone is always

486
00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:11,200
doing something bad to them. There's always a crisis in

487
00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:14,720
their life, and I mean sometimes there might be a crisis.

488
00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 4: That's why it's so difficult to tell. They're basically have

489
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,039
They basically share the same belief in being special and

490
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:27,680
unique as the grandiose, diagnosable counterpart, but it's not again

491
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,480
projected to the outside world. That's why if you read

492
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,440
in cell message boards you would see it, but it's

493
00:30:33,559 --> 00:30:38,440
not sort of publicly displayed. So they have the same

494
00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:39,519
sense of entitlement.

495
00:30:40,359 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 5: They're equally interpersonally exploitative, but it would come up.

496
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 4: In different ways.

497
00:30:46,039 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 5: Whereas let's say, a grandose narcissist might go into an

498
00:30:49,559 --> 00:30:53,519
overt rage, sometimes even violence to get what they want,

499
00:30:54,119 --> 00:31:00,319
the vulnerable narcissism narcissist would use more covert behavior like

500
00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:05,279
guilt tripping or disappearing for days, the silent treatment, and so.

501
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,279
Speaker 4: On and so forth. So it's something that is popularly

502
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:09,880
known as passive aggression.

503
00:31:10,359 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 5: I like the term covert aggression, but generally the meaning

504
00:31:14,079 --> 00:31:16,519
is the same that it's kind of like under the radar,

505
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,000
I'm always the hurt party, I'm always the victim.

506
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,759
Speaker 4: And you know, once you know this person well enough,

507
00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:26,200
you probably realize that they're not always the victim.

508
00:31:26,359 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 5: In fact, they're the aggressor. But they're using these roundabout

509
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,039
ways too. And if you think about what they're doing

510
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,799
is they're basically they're fighting for what they want, but

511
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,759
they're not fighting for what they want in an overway

512
00:31:42,079 --> 00:31:45,720
by yelling at you, for instance. They're getting what they

513
00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:51,000
want by using these passive, covert ways. So but they're

514
00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:53,480
still fighting. They're still fighting. Is just a different way

515
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:55,519
to fight and to get what they want. And I

516
00:31:55,559 --> 00:31:57,920
think it's very important to understand, like that's where the

517
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:03,160
aggression part comes in. But unlike Grandio's nurcissist, they're not

518
00:32:03,319 --> 00:32:06,400
going to down the street that they're arrogant to others

519
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:07,720
in the open.

520
00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 2: So one of the things that sent me down this

521
00:32:10,559 --> 00:32:12,799
rabbit hole a couple of years ago was some people

522
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,000
that I was interacting with and got me reading on

523
00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:18,599
the subject. And one thing I noticed, and I think

524
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,759
you perhaps mentioned it in one of the videos. If not,

525
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,160
you can correct me, but I noticed the characteristic of

526
00:32:25,799 --> 00:32:30,440
total inability ever to admit, even in the smallest degree,

527
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,279
any mistake or error, like not just not just on

528
00:32:34,359 --> 00:32:36,440
a moral level, like oh it was really you know,

529
00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:38,519
shitty that you punched me in the face, but like,

530
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,000
you know, even to like the most basic level of like,

531
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,240
oh you had a fact wrong about you know, the

532
00:32:44,319 --> 00:32:45,000
World Series.

533
00:32:45,079 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 3: It actually wasn't that year.

534
00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:50,519
Speaker 2: No, I'm right, you know, like never, Like I've met

535
00:32:50,519 --> 00:32:53,799
two people who have never in my life heard them

536
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,759
ever admit that they ever made any mistake or wrong.

537
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 5: And it's actually a very interesting because you could look

538
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,920
at the psychological makeup of that person and it's probably,

539
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,759
if there are other traits involved, a pretty disordered person.

540
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 4: Because if you.

541
00:33:10,079 --> 00:33:14,119
Speaker 5: Look at the way the narcissist is constructed, there is

542
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,079
the true self that is essentially eroded, and then there's

543
00:33:17,119 --> 00:33:20,400
the false self, which is basically a series of these

544
00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:25,759
primitive defenses like envy and rage and so forth, and

545
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,000
if they were to admit that they're wrong, their whole

546
00:33:30,119 --> 00:33:35,400
false self would basically collapse. And that's how they this

547
00:33:35,599 --> 00:33:37,480
is the way they operate in the world, like they

548
00:33:37,519 --> 00:33:40,440
would they would have serious psychological issues if they were

549
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,200
to admit that they're wrong, because their false self would

550
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,799
collapse basically, So they have like a.

551
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,599
Speaker 8: Mirror thing that's very fragile, that any insight has essentially

552
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,079
been like eaten away at whatever age they If you

553
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,799
follow kind of the popular analysis of how a narcissist

554
00:33:59,039 --> 00:34:03,240
is formed, it's usually childhood trauma or.

555
00:34:03,599 --> 00:34:07,759
Speaker 5: It's it's it's it's extreme validation as this little god

556
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:08,559
running around.

557
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 4: Basically you're either denigrating the child or you are.

558
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,039
Speaker 5: You're excessively praising them, but it's always praising them for

559
00:34:18,559 --> 00:34:21,599
actions as opposed to like, oh, you're kind and empathetic,

560
00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:22,400
et cetera, et cetera.

561
00:34:22,519 --> 00:34:24,199
Speaker 4: So at whatever age.

562
00:34:24,039 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 5: Their emotional development is stunted, that's what you'll see, and

563
00:34:28,039 --> 00:34:31,920
it's actually pretty fascinating. If you have children, you will

564
00:34:32,039 --> 00:34:35,360
see a lot of these narcissistic behaviors. But of course

565
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,280
in children it's develop mentally appropriate, right, So I don't know.

566
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,880
If you come across you know, nephew's nieces, someone else's

567
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,679
kids on a somewhat regular basis, have you ever seen

568
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,920
a kid admit that they're wrong they would go blame.

569
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:50,599
Speaker 2: Their brother exactly.

570
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:52,679
Speaker 4: It's it's exactly that.

571
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,199
Speaker 5: Of course, they don't have a false self like an

572
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,639
adult narcissist, but a lot of those things that are

573
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:03,360
developmenttally appropriate then kids, like really rapid mood swings from

574
00:35:03,559 --> 00:35:06,280
mom I hate you to mom, I love you. When

575
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,320
you see that in an adult, obviously it's it's inappropriate

576
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,880
that inability to control your emotions on a.

577
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 4: Very basic level.

578
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,039
Speaker 5: So it's it's pretty fascinating to compare what kids do

579
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,199
and for them being normal when they're you know, three,

580
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,199
four or five, and what adults do and it's absolutely not.

581
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,159
Speaker 2: So yeah, I know in the in the in the

582
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,320
case of one person I'm thinking of, there was an

583
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,840
early trauma at age four I think, where there was

584
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,480
an accidental death involved hm hmm. And I think it

585
00:35:36,639 --> 00:35:39,320
really messed up the It wasn't the person's fault as

586
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,760
the child that was involved, but I think that it

587
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,880
probably damaged that person to the extent that they felt

588
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:51,719
like the solution perhaps was to erect the notion of

589
00:35:55,679 --> 00:35:59,039
that that that that that ever admitting anything had been

590
00:35:59,119 --> 00:36:02,199
done wrong would mean that they were weak, so they

591
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,039
had to build an image that they were completely strong

592
00:36:05,159 --> 00:36:05,960
and invincible.

593
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,159
Speaker 5: Over yeah, I mean, that's absolutely relevant, But I would

594
00:36:09,159 --> 00:36:12,119
also say there would have probably been some kind of

595
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,880
emotional neglect on a part of a caregiver or some

596
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:20,159
important adult like whatever teacher, coach, depending on what their

597
00:36:20,199 --> 00:36:24,480
family situation was like, or excess a validation like you're

598
00:36:24,519 --> 00:36:26,920
always the best, you're the best artist in the world,

599
00:36:27,039 --> 00:36:29,320
you're the best singer, et cetera, et cetera. So in

600
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,119
some families it's actually pretty interesting. And I can think

601
00:36:32,199 --> 00:36:37,519
of personal experiences where one parent is extremely aggressive and

602
00:36:37,639 --> 00:36:42,519
denigrating and verbally abusive, and the other parent just praises

603
00:36:42,599 --> 00:36:43,360
the hell out of you.

604
00:36:43,559 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 4: And so basically this child who grows.

605
00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:51,519
Speaker 5: Up with stunted emotional development spends his or her entire

606
00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:56,159
life running from the abusive so to speak, poll to this.

607
00:36:56,599 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 4: Kind of total allowance of everything.

608
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 5: Everything is permissible, everything is permitted, and then that is

609
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,000
expressed and very low impulse control, which is one of

610
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:12,599
the important traits of these maladaptive personalities. It's not so

611
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:19,599
much associated with narcissists, although it's sometimes prevalent. It's more

612
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:25,639
so associated with sociopathy, psychopathy, and the diagnostic antisocial personality disorder.

613
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 4: But it's never like a clear picture.

614
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 5: A lot of people that I would say, are they

615
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:32,199
display narcissistic traits?

616
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 4: Are have very low impulse control.

617
00:37:34,039 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 2: So yeah, which is why I guess at times they

618
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,199
could snap and perhaps you know, try to kill somebody.

619
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 5: Yes, And I think that's kind of interesting because again,

620
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,639
in terms of popular culture, there's so much debate as

621
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,760
to what is a sociopath, what is a psychopath, and what.

622
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 4: Is the antisocial personality disorder?

623
00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 5: And to make matters worse, certain YouTube psychologists with their

624
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,400
PhDs give you a slightly different answer. One would say, oh,

625
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,840
a psychopath is born, a sociopath is made.

626
00:38:04,559 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 4: Then they would kind of.

627
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 5: Muddy the water was saying, well, no, of course, certain

628
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,920
genes are only activated in certain environmental conditions.

629
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 4: It's never it's never genes alone.

630
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 5: And you know, my point is that a sociopath or

631
00:38:18,159 --> 00:38:23,599
the antisocial personality disorder there's significant criminality, whereas a psychopath

632
00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:24,880
does not necessarily have to.

633
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 4: Have a criminal record.

634
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,679
Speaker 5: It could be like a white collar criminal, or it

635
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:32,639
could be as we've mentioned earlier, Hollywood director, ceo, politician,

636
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:33,400
et cetera.

637
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 2: What is the so next, you went on to cover.

638
00:38:39,639 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 3: Things like when you are with this person or you

639
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:44,480
have this person that's.

640
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: Say a family member or a boss. It's really bad

641
00:38:46,559 --> 00:38:49,199
when it's a boss situation. I've had multiple bosses who

642
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:55,239
were just completely insane, demonic possessed by bosses. So people

643
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,840
will say things like, why didn't you just leave this

644
00:38:58,039 --> 00:39:01,159
person in this relationship? And then you give it. You

645
00:39:01,199 --> 00:39:03,559
did another video about five ways that you feel great

646
00:39:03,679 --> 00:39:06,639
after you do leave these kinds of situations. So sometimes

647
00:39:06,679 --> 00:39:08,280
you might not be able to leave, Like if you're

648
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:09,440
in the household.

649
00:39:09,199 --> 00:39:11,519
Speaker 5: I mean, I think with the work scenario, obviously there

650
00:39:11,599 --> 00:39:13,920
might it's it's a little it's it's obviously different from

651
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,159
a romantic partnership or a family of origin where either

652
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,280
it's elderly parents that you're taken care.

653
00:39:19,159 --> 00:39:22,039
Speaker 4: Of, or you're not an adult, you're you know, teenager.

654
00:39:22,159 --> 00:39:26,199
Speaker 5: You can't leave in a work situation, obviously, ideally you

655
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:27,880
should try to find another job.

656
00:39:28,039 --> 00:39:31,679
Speaker 4: If the person in a position of power is.

657
00:39:32,679 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 5: You know, kind of taking all the boxes for these

658
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,440
maladaptive traits, and I would say with you know, the

659
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,079
the two most difficult ones are, of course, you know, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife,

660
00:39:44,119 --> 00:39:47,599
so basically intimate partner and family of origin, because they

661
00:39:47,639 --> 00:39:52,920
are all these unspoken social, cultural family obligations that are

662
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,079
kind of intertwined into into the maladaptive situation.

663
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:58,599
Speaker 4: So let's say you have.

664
00:39:59,199 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 5: Two parents, they're married, one of them is neurotypical and

665
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,440
one of them perhaps not a clinical whatever the diagnosis

666
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,360
would be, but quite harmful. It's you know, someone the

667
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,880
psychologist might say, well, cut off contact, but it's impossible

668
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,719
if you want to maintain contact with the other parent, so.

669
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 4: It's not easy to do so.

670
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 5: But I think one of the more traumatic ones, of course,

671
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,000
would be, you know, an intimate partnership when when you

672
00:40:28,119 --> 00:40:32,679
live with this person and things basically escalate, and what

673
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:38,559
happens is that there is this cycle of intermittent positive

674
00:40:38,599 --> 00:40:43,880
reward basically think of Paulov's dogs and dog training, and

675
00:40:44,199 --> 00:40:47,519
then there's a cycle of abuse, and sometimes it's verbal,

676
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,599
it could be physical, and in the meantime, you're walking

677
00:40:50,679 --> 00:40:55,199
on eggshells. You're anticipating this next explosion to come. And

678
00:40:56,119 --> 00:40:59,719
sometimes in popular culture, it's described as the doctor Jekyl

679
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:05,039
and your high personality. So what happens as this happens

680
00:41:05,079 --> 00:41:07,880
over and over and over again, is that the timing

681
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,400
between the reward and it could be you know, let's

682
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,039
say this person is physically violent, he or she has

683
00:41:15,079 --> 00:41:15,719
assaulted you.

684
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 4: And I do want to make a point that sometimes

685
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,559
it does pertain to women. Absolutely.

686
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:24,639
Speaker 5: I've personally spoken to two men who have been subject

687
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,280
of disordered women and they absolutely do not want to

688
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:33,480
report this because it's embarrassing. Anyway, away from my digression,

689
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,920
So the period between the reward quote unquote, it could

690
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,440
be an apology, it could be a gift, it could

691
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:40,280
be a trip, it could.

692
00:41:40,159 --> 00:41:45,519
Speaker 4: Really be anything. And this next rage the silent treatment

693
00:41:45,679 --> 00:41:48,960
disappearing for days, whatever it might be. In a particular case,

694
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:51,440
it gets longer.

695
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 5: So there are less and less rewards, kind of like

696
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,440
roughly speaking, you training your dog are no longer rewarding

697
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:02,079
the dog with treats for whatever the dog is supposed

698
00:42:02,119 --> 00:42:06,639
to perform sid shake. You know, So as this is

699
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,199
happening and you're walking on eggshells because this person is

700
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,119
completely unpredictable, think about all the bodily changes that are

701
00:42:14,159 --> 00:42:20,320
happening to you. Your reptilian brain is always you know, activated,

702
00:42:20,559 --> 00:42:29,079
and you're constantly yes the lizard people.

703
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,519
Speaker 4: But you know you're you have the four flight fight

704
00:42:32,639 --> 00:42:35,760
or flight for the fore f's basically fight flight, fawn

705
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,360
and sorry, what's the last one? And freeze and freeze,

706
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,679
And I'm sure you've seen this. And so.

707
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:49,559
Speaker 5: Basically when this happens, there's this hormone dump, right, And

708
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,440
so as this happens over and over and over again,

709
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,960
your body chemistry is completely out of black. And when

710
00:42:56,039 --> 00:42:59,559
there's the quote unquote reward I'm so sorry I did

711
00:42:59,599 --> 00:43:01,840
this and that to you, or here's a gift, I'm

712
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,880
so sorry I did this and that to you, you

713
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:10,559
get this massive dopamine release. So it's like adrenaline cortisol

714
00:43:11,199 --> 00:43:13,679
on the bad side quote unquote, and dopamine on the

715
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:19,920
good side. And you know, these hormones are and neurotransmitters

716
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,760
are there for a reason. But when it happens on

717
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,360
such a frequent basis, it really screws up your body chemistry.

718
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:31,079
You're exhausted all the time, and you can have a

719
00:43:31,159 --> 00:43:34,679
whole slew of issues. There are some studies about autoimmune issues,

720
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,159
people gaining weight, people losing weight, thyroid issues and so

721
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,960
on and so forth. And there's also some kind of

722
00:43:41,119 --> 00:43:45,199
unofficial documented cases of people being able to leave these

723
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,719
scenarios and then their body chemistry is back to normal.

724
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,559
But that scenario is basically this is why it's called

725
00:43:51,599 --> 00:43:54,639
a trauma bond, is that you kind of have I

726
00:43:54,679 --> 00:43:58,559
think initially it came out with little children who were

727
00:43:58,679 --> 00:44:02,800
raised in abusive house holds where you know, the same

728
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,360
parent as the good parent quote unquote and the bad parent,

729
00:44:06,079 --> 00:44:09,800
and so the child is really kind of accustomed to

730
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,800
the good and the bad and that sort of body

731
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,800
chemistry being out of whack, and so you have this

732
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,039
almost bodily chemical dependence on this situation.

733
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 4: So this is why when you leave it feels so

734
00:44:24,519 --> 00:44:25,960
it just feels so traumatic.

735
00:44:26,159 --> 00:44:30,519
Speaker 5: It's been compared to having withdrawals from a dro serious

736
00:44:30,599 --> 00:44:35,199
chemical chemical dependency by multiple psychologists and scientists.

737
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 1: So the.

738
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 2: Trauma bond aspect of this also makes me think of

739
00:44:43,679 --> 00:44:48,039
the aspects of cults exactly, Stockholm syndrome, this kind of stuff. So,

740
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,440
as you guys know in the audience, we've covered cults many, many,

741
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,480
many times, and so you'll start to see that what

742
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,000
Nina's talking about is very relevant to the sphere of cults,

743
00:44:57,039 --> 00:45:00,800
cult of personality, and how cult leader use these.

744
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 3: Tricks, tactics, techniques.

745
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 2: Most of the time, I would say it's probably a

746
00:45:05,079 --> 00:45:08,679
fair guess that cult leaders are narcissistic psychopaths.

747
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 4: I don't think there's oh absolutely, And I think actually

748
00:45:11,559 --> 00:45:13,960
a very good way to remember this is that not

749
00:45:14,159 --> 00:45:18,239
every narcissist is a psychopath, but every psychopath is a narcissist. Okay,

750
00:45:18,519 --> 00:45:21,960
So there are some pretty interesting studies of cult leaders,

751
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,440
specifically in the US, and from the psychological standpoint, not assessments,

752
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,679
I guess, because you know, officially, to diagnose someone you

753
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,039
have to interview them, et cetera, et cetera.

754
00:45:32,119 --> 00:45:34,280
Speaker 5: So there are assessments, but you know, I would say

755
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:39,559
they sound pretty accurate to me. So definitely that direct

756
00:45:39,639 --> 00:45:46,519
connection between cult psychology and these narcissistic or psychopathic relationships.

757
00:45:46,559 --> 00:45:49,599
In fact, that some of these mental health professionals call

758
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:55,280
the let's say a marriage to a highly narcissistic person

759
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:56,119
a cult of one.

760
00:45:56,519 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 4: Basically, so.

761
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 2: You mentioned, let's see a technique called gray rock, which

762
00:46:04,079 --> 00:46:07,159
is placing a gray rock underneath the pillow of the

763
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:08,039
evil spouse.

764
00:46:08,079 --> 00:46:13,039
Speaker 4: Correct and then and then doing evil Slavic spells.

765
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:14,119
Speaker 2: Right, so put.

766
00:46:19,599 --> 00:46:24,639
Speaker 5: The infamous Eurraisinist Mongolian supremacist spell.

767
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,119
Speaker 4: Yes, it always works. Do not try this at home,

768
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,719
but you've mentioned this.

769
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 5: Tomorrow the Daily Beast will be covering the bearded resputant.

770
00:46:38,079 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 3: You will get the extra Slovic bes the bitcoin tonight. Yes, exactly,

771
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:44,880
Soviet Soviet.

772
00:46:45,599 --> 00:46:48,559
Speaker 4: That sounds enticing. Actually, so tell us.

773
00:46:48,519 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 3: About how I didn't I'd never heard of this.

774
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,639
Speaker 2: You talk about this gray rock method. So if if

775
00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:56,360
you do have a psychopath in your sphere that you

776
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,840
have to deal with, this is an interesting technique, and

777
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,000
in the regards the person that I know, I did

778
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,320
think that this was a helpful piece of advice. If

779
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:06,880
you want to mention, that's when it's when it can

780
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:07,320
be done.

781
00:47:08,519 --> 00:47:12,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's basically exactly what it sounds like. When you

782
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,039
implement gray rock, you are supposed to be as boring as.

783
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 4: A gray rock. You know, not many things that are

784
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:19,519
more boring than a great rock.

785
00:47:19,599 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess you're unless you're like into the

786
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,760
Japanese into religion, but I digress.

787
00:47:24,039 --> 00:47:26,280
Speaker 4: So basically, the only.

788
00:47:26,199 --> 00:47:29,559
Speaker 5: Time I would not use this technique is if the

789
00:47:29,679 --> 00:47:34,280
person you're dealing with is physically violent, not necessarily towards you,

790
00:47:34,599 --> 00:47:37,159
because there's a propensity for violence, even if it's just

791
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,920
punching walls, And you have to be, for whatever reason,

792
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,639
one on one with this and with this person, because

793
00:47:44,639 --> 00:47:48,159
this may send the person in question into a rage.

794
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,559
So in all other scenarios, it's fine to use gray rock.

795
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:57,920
And basically you are retraining this maladaptive, dysfunctional person in

796
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,119
your life for the long term, pervasive, harmful patterns of

797
00:48:01,159 --> 00:48:05,840
behavior that you've observed to realize that you're no longer

798
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,559
going to be giving them this attention, as.

799
00:48:08,679 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 4: Some people call it narcissistic supply.

800
00:48:11,159 --> 00:48:15,639
Speaker 5: So let's say they respond, they send you something and

801
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,920
it's a paragraph. You respond in one line in the

802
00:48:19,039 --> 00:48:22,920
most boring way possible, and you do this over and

803
00:48:23,039 --> 00:48:26,920
over again. You ignore their attempts to trigger you and

804
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,440
to get into some kind of an argument, and it's

805
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,440
helpful for you know, let's say family of origin situation

806
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:36,199
where you cannot cut off contact with, you know, your

807
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:37,239
boomer uncle.

808
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 4: Who is a big I don't know, to a bush

809
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:44,880
fan or something like that.

810
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,559
Speaker 5: So you have to implement this over and over again

811
00:48:48,639 --> 00:48:51,920
and be consistent and you're slowly retraining them once again

812
00:48:52,079 --> 00:48:55,079
rough analogy of dog training, to think that you're no

813
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:59,079
longer going to be giving them this narcissistic supply. And

814
00:48:59,159 --> 00:49:01,800
you send me that by Jamie, which I'm yet to watch,

815
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:05,360
but I saw the title has the word vampire, which

816
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:06,559
is very irrelevant.

817
00:49:06,599 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 4: I mean, it sounds kind of exaggerated because these people

818
00:49:09,639 --> 00:49:10,559
really feed.

819
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 5: Off of your emotions and they don't care if these

820
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,760
are positive emotions or negative emotions. What they want is

821
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,679
your emotions because that validates them. So when they send

822
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,559
you something I hate to use the word triggering because

823
00:49:22,599 --> 00:49:27,519
of the social justice associations, but basically something triggering in

824
00:49:27,559 --> 00:49:31,760
an attempt to get you to argue with something that's

825
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:33,199
offensive to you, something.

826
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:33,760
Speaker 4: That's not true.

827
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 5: What they want is this explosion of negative emotions coming

828
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,119
from you, and that's how they feed off of that,

829
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,440
which is why the vampire analogy is relevant. And this

830
00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:47,000
is precisely why you're retraining them to realize that you're

831
00:49:47,039 --> 00:49:49,480
no longer going to be doing this, You're just boring.

832
00:49:49,639 --> 00:49:52,280
They're going to have to move on to another source

833
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,000
of not blood, but narcissistic supply.

834
00:49:55,840 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 2: So if I spell vampire, pyre is just eccentricity.

835
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 5: Or is that a narcissistic create Once again, I would

836
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,159
defer to doctor Phil and see what he would say

837
00:50:07,639 --> 00:50:08,679
about that subject.

838
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,320
Speaker 2: He would probably debunk vampires.

839
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,559
Speaker 4: You would have to Oh, he would, yes, because he's

840
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:18,599
very rational. Yes, that's very true.

841
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:24,119
Speaker 2: But anyway, gaslighting. So talk about gas lighting because as

842
00:50:24,199 --> 00:50:26,960
you know here on my channel, we have covered many,

843
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,800
many films, and one of the first films that we

844
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:31,840
covered in one of the lectures I did many years

845
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,360
ago was George Kukor's film Gaslight, which is a great movie.

846
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,519
Speaker 5: And yeah, I mean, do you want to tell your

847
00:50:40,639 --> 00:50:44,320
listeners what briefly what the movie is about, that the

848
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:48,760
female protagonist is slowly being driven insane and how she's

849
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:49,719
being driven insane.

850
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,639
Speaker 2: So Ingrid Bergmann has a suitor, and her suitor is

851
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,519
a guy that she believes, his son, Dandy Fopp, of

852
00:50:57,679 --> 00:51:00,400
some sort of noble character, and he's not.

853
00:51:00,559 --> 00:51:02,599
Speaker 3: He's actually a con man.

854
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,519
Speaker 2: But he's fairly clever at his con artistry because he

855
00:51:05,559 --> 00:51:08,440
has rigged a lot of things, including the house itself,

856
00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:11,320
to appear to.

857
00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 3: Have ghosts and all the kinds of nonsense.

858
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:18,119
Speaker 2: And this drives Ingrid gradually more and more insane, believing

859
00:51:18,199 --> 00:51:20,840
she's insane, and he's of course fostering this the entire time.

860
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,760
He's moving her objects around, throwing away objects, hiding objects,

861
00:51:25,639 --> 00:51:27,960
telling her to her face. You know, after he's done stuff,

862
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,039
I didn't do that, you know, after he just obviously

863
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,400
did it, this kind of thing. So hence the term gaslight,

864
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:35,360
as it's known to most of us.

865
00:51:36,159 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 3: I won't spoil the movie.

866
00:51:37,079 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 2: You haven't seen it, because it's a great movie, but

867
00:51:40,639 --> 00:51:42,440
tell us the signs of gaslighting.

868
00:51:43,519 --> 00:51:46,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean so, the term comes from that film,

869
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,360
and it's basically a technique that is.

870
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:53,119
Speaker 4: Used over the long.

871
00:51:53,039 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 5: Term in order to affect the very perception of reality

872
00:51:58,599 --> 00:52:03,639
of your target. And the reasons for doing so maybe

873
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:08,400
simple control if it's a family of origin or romantic partner.

874
00:52:09,039 --> 00:52:12,880
It may be something financial if it's a business partner,

875
00:52:13,039 --> 00:52:14,719
so the reasons.

876
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,599
Speaker 4: For this may be very different. But the technique is

877
00:52:17,679 --> 00:52:20,000
basically a way of.

878
00:52:21,559 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 5: Having you experience a very piercing sense of cognitive dissonance

879
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,800
over and over again, and a lot of times it

880
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,519
starts off again in a seemingly benign way.

881
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 4: This person does something that is not good.

882
00:52:38,519 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 5: You have either witnessed it or yourself with your own eyes,

883
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,480
so again the five senses, or you've heard about it,

884
00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:48,440
then you know this is factual information. And this person

885
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,440
begins denying it, foaming at the mouth, and they're believable.

886
00:52:53,159 --> 00:52:56,840
And at first when this happens, you just scoff, like,

887
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,159
this is crazy. I can't believe he's denying something that

888
00:53:00,199 --> 00:53:01,440
I've seen with my own eyes.

889
00:53:01,519 --> 00:53:04,559
Speaker 4: But the way our psychology works is if.

890
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 5: You are neurotypical and you see this, and then you

891
00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:10,760
see this person is offended. This person stops talking to you,

892
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,880
and you start thinking about the way you would act

893
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:16,719
in a situation, and you think, well, I would be

894
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,119
very offended if someone didn't believe me because I was

895
00:53:20,199 --> 00:53:23,800
telling the truth. And as time goes on, you know,

896
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:30,719
matter of days, maybe a week, you start justifying their excuses,

897
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,039
even though initially you may have witnessed what they're doing

898
00:53:34,159 --> 00:53:37,440
with your own two eyes. And it's pretty remarkable that

899
00:53:37,559 --> 00:53:40,079
this is the way. You know, our brain is wired

900
00:53:40,199 --> 00:53:44,880
essentially to start questioning it. And so when this is

901
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,400
something that happens over and over again, as it happens

902
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:52,360
initially in each instance, you experience this sense of surreal

903
00:53:52,599 --> 00:53:56,320
cognitive dissonance because it challenges what you're seeing as in

904
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:57,559
the movie the light's being.

905
00:53:57,519 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 4: Dimmed, right, So.

906
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,039
Speaker 5: And basically there are all these kind of other factors

907
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,400
that are to be considered. So let's say it's an

908
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:11,960
abuse of romantic situation. The target is likely isolated from

909
00:54:12,039 --> 00:54:14,440
their friends and family at the stage, there's not a

910
00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:17,280
lot of validation of reality where you could say to

911
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:21,280
your sister, your best friend, whatever, all this happened, and

912
00:54:21,559 --> 00:54:23,880
you know he or she can validate or not. So

913
00:54:24,679 --> 00:54:28,119
your only reference to reality is this person who is

914
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:34,039
constantly gaslighting you. And it's actually pretty fascinating because I

915
00:54:34,119 --> 00:54:37,000
think a lot of these YouTubers start off here and

916
00:54:37,079 --> 00:54:40,480
then they extrapolate to you know, group level like cults

917
00:54:40,599 --> 00:54:43,360
and then national and international level politics.

918
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 4: Right in my case, it was the opposite.

919
00:54:45,559 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 5: You know, you look at the way the media in

920
00:54:48,079 --> 00:54:51,639
an echo chamber covers certain events and if you have

921
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:53,159
the benefit of being able to.

922
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 4: Read or understand, how.

923
00:54:58,199 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 5: Realize that you know, the weapons of mass destruction and

924
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,519
in Iraq we're not there, for instance, and this is

925
00:55:05,599 --> 00:55:08,880
a way to you know, keep keep the population depending

926
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:10,960
on what the what the particular situation is.

927
00:55:11,039 --> 00:55:13,760
Speaker 4: But it happens in the media and in politics on

928
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:14,639
a daily basis.

929
00:55:15,119 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 2: So it's pretty sad because I did want to talk

930
00:55:17,519 --> 00:55:20,119
about how people in the audience. You know, one of

931
00:55:20,159 --> 00:55:22,000
the things that I've covered quite a bit is also

932
00:55:22,519 --> 00:55:26,440
psychological warfare. So this all the stuff that Nina's mentioning

933
00:55:26,599 --> 00:55:29,639
is very applicable to that realm of stuff as well.

934
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,400
So you'll notice patterns and similarities in the way that

935
00:55:32,519 --> 00:55:36,440
the media, the way that propaganda works to gaslight as.

936
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 4: Well, right exactly. And it's you know, I would love

937
00:55:40,599 --> 00:55:42,960
to cover more of the subject, but again.

938
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:48,559
Speaker 5: Listening to or observing YouTube censorship policies, you kind of

939
00:55:48,679 --> 00:55:51,960
have to be careful careful of that. But you could

940
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:56,079
talk about government a engaging in yes, a certain type

941
00:55:56,119 --> 00:55:59,280
of a certain type of psyop operation whatever.

942
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 3: So there was a good question.

943
00:56:01,079 --> 00:56:02,639
Speaker 2: We'll do some questions here in a little bit if

944
00:56:02,639 --> 00:56:04,320
you guys want to send super chats to see We've

945
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,199
got a few already and then I've got a few

946
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:10,000
that people have written down. That'll be good. But what

947
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:14,719
are you mentioned? One your newest video, you talk about

948
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:19,559
the tendency of the narcissist in your life to monopolize

949
00:56:19,639 --> 00:56:23,320
and suck away your time, and you spend about twelve

950
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,239
minutes on that. Is there anything you want to remind

951
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,440
us about there? That is key, because this is another

952
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:29,840
one of the things that they do is that they

953
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:30,480
try to well.

954
00:56:30,519 --> 00:56:35,639
Speaker 5: Basically, time is one of the parameters in which this

955
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:40,800
maladaptive individual can get his or her narcissistic supply attention.

956
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,719
In other words, and a lot of times it starts

957
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,440
off in a very seemingly benign way.

958
00:56:46,599 --> 00:56:48,320
Speaker 4: Where as I've mentioned.

959
00:56:48,039 --> 00:56:49,719
Speaker 5: There, you know, this might be someone who is a

960
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,199
little bit late, and of course we've all been late

961
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:56,360
because we've had legitimate reasons and there's a legitimate explanation,

962
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,920
and you write this off. But as time goes on,

963
00:56:59,199 --> 00:57:03,119
you realize that you're constantly waiting around on this person

964
00:57:03,519 --> 00:57:06,199
and basically, you know the statement could be made. You know,

965
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,559
we don't start until I get here, So there's that

966
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:13,559
sense of entitlement and grandiosity embedded into being late, and

967
00:57:13,639 --> 00:57:18,119
then you slowly realize that it's being done deliberately. And

968
00:57:18,519 --> 00:57:24,360
as this is happening, this is accompanied by other ways

969
00:57:24,599 --> 00:57:29,079
of monopolizing your time, sort of complaining about you spending

970
00:57:29,719 --> 00:57:32,280
you know, time on solitary hobbies, on your friends, and

971
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,920
a lot of times again it seems to sound legitimate.

972
00:57:35,079 --> 00:57:37,320
This person wants to spend more time with you. And

973
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,320
again it doesn't have to be you know, romantic partner.

974
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:44,880
It could be a family of origin family member, and

975
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:50,320
eventually this person completely monopolizes you to the point where

976
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,880
you lose your very identity. It's also applicable to cult

977
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:59,480
psychology here, but it starts off and seemingly benign ways

978
00:57:59,679 --> 00:58:01,559
by you know, not being punctual.

979
00:58:02,719 --> 00:58:08,519
Speaker 2: Yes, that's great, Yeah, do you Let's see someone asked

980
00:58:08,519 --> 00:58:11,239
a great question about do you see a connection between

981
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:17,079
like prevalent philosophies and society like nihilism. Could that contribute

982
00:58:17,079 --> 00:58:19,400
to the prevalence of things like narcissism?

983
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:25,239
Speaker 5: Absolutely, there's There are multiple both psychologists and kind of

984
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,320
popular youtub risks who are not psychologists, who commented on this.

985
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:33,639
If you look at it's difficult to keep accurate statistics

986
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,800
of this because it's either mental health professionals reporting it

987
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:37,840
or it's self reported.

988
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 4: But one statistics I had seen is that it's I.

989
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:47,159
Speaker 5: Think it's like zero point one percent of narcissism in

990
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:52,559
East Asia compared to the anywhere between two to ten

991
00:58:52,639 --> 00:58:56,880
percent of diagnosable and PD in America. So there's clearly

992
00:58:57,039 --> 00:59:02,519
something about the individualist culture with all the implications of

993
00:59:02,679 --> 00:59:06,679
nihilism et cetera, et cetera, versus the more communally oriented

994
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:07,400
East Asians.

995
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,639
Speaker 4: And of course they're also affected by you know, globalism

996
00:59:10,719 --> 00:59:11,360
and so forth.

997
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:14,599
Speaker 5: But some of these studies that I'd seen had significant

998
00:59:14,719 --> 00:59:19,679
differences in documenting these conditions at the level of a

999
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,960
personality disorder. So if you think about the types of

1000
00:59:24,119 --> 00:59:27,519
values that are promoted in our culture in terms of

1001
00:59:28,159 --> 00:59:31,679
cutthroat competition in the workplace, so that you know, you

1002
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,039
want to become a CEO, you want to run a company,

1003
00:59:34,639 --> 00:59:38,039
you probably don't want to have too much empathy, which

1004
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:39,639
empathy lacking is one of the.

1005
00:59:39,679 --> 00:59:41,159
Speaker 4: Traits of narcissism.

1006
00:59:41,639 --> 00:59:43,519
Speaker 5: You probably don't want to have too much empathy if

1007
00:59:43,519 --> 00:59:45,199
you have to lay off twelve hundred people.

1008
00:59:45,599 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 4: So all of these things that are good for business.

1009
00:59:48,719 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 5: Are actually, in let's say, in the short in the

1010
00:59:52,519 --> 00:59:55,599
short term, maybe not in the long term, are actually

1011
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,960
traits of narcissism. So if they're being promoted as a

1012
00:59:59,079 --> 01:00:04,079
cultural value, then you know, what, how can we how

1013
01:00:04,159 --> 01:00:07,239
can we function if it's if it's considered to be

1014
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:11,840
a positive in the workplace to be highly successful and

1015
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,800
it's considered to be awful in interpersonal relationships.

1016
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,679
Speaker 4: There is this real significant clash. So, I mean it's

1017
01:00:19,039 --> 01:00:19,599
we could.

1018
01:00:19,719 --> 01:00:24,079
Speaker 5: Extrapolate this to the criticism of late stage capitalism to

1019
01:00:24,199 --> 01:00:26,480
be to make it even more broad.

1020
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:33,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, the social uh uh social Darwinism in terms of capitalism,

1021
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:38,159
it's the same, the same mindset here. And actually, if

1022
01:00:38,199 --> 01:00:40,360
you have the John Ronson book, which that's the one

1023
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,840
that I have on on psychopaths, his psychopath Test, he

1024
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,679
covers some of those characteristics as well as especially in

1025
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,320
the realm of CEOs and and you know, people in

1026
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,000
hedge funds and this kind of stuff, that that's the

1027
01:00:52,079 --> 01:00:57,599
perfect arena for this kind of yes, a conscience free

1028
01:00:57,719 --> 01:01:00,000
zone right where we're freed from yes exactly.

1029
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 5: So it's it's pretty remarkable that all you know, and

1030
01:01:03,719 --> 01:01:06,679
you watch some of these you know, I'm all four

1031
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:10,400
girls being professionally accomplished. But when you watch these promotional

1032
01:01:10,559 --> 01:01:12,599
videos with what do you want to be when you

1033
01:01:12,679 --> 01:01:14,599
grow up and they say I want to be a CEO,

1034
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,960
they don't even say of what, They just have that

1035
01:01:18,119 --> 01:01:20,719
social status of being, you know, at the top of

1036
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,239
the corporation. It's it's a pretty scary. It's a pretty

1037
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,320
scary thing that's happening.

1038
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 2: So do you advocate becoming a super narcissist to defeat

1039
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:32,239
the narcissist in your life.

1040
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 5: It's actually kind of funny that you mentioned this. I

1041
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:38,800
don't know if you're familiar with Sam Wacknin, but he's

1042
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,880
one of these. If you google narcissism, he's one of

1043
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:46,280
the first people to come up. He is not a

1044
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:50,840
psychologist or a mental health professional. Nonetheless, there is kind

1045
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:54,079
of this love hate relationship. Some people absolutely consider him

1046
01:01:54,079 --> 01:01:56,960
an expert and invite him to thens. Other people are

1047
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,840
pretty skeptical of him. He claims to be a diagnosed narcissist.

1048
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:03,519
According to a movie in which he was in, he

1049
01:02:03,639 --> 01:02:05,480
is a diagnosed psychopath.

1050
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 4: Which I guess says he's also a narcissist.

1051
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 5: But he basically almost has that strategy that he is

1052
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:16,679
challenging narcissism by being a super narcissist because he understands

1053
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:22,119
it himself so well, and supposedly he was a genius,

1054
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,920
like a wounder kind in Israel when he grew up,

1055
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:32,280
so he clearly has enough intelligence to extrapolate. You know that,

1056
01:02:32,559 --> 01:02:35,119
like usually narcissists are not supposed to have that level

1057
01:02:35,159 --> 01:02:35,880
of self reflection.

1058
01:02:37,599 --> 01:02:40,599
Speaker 4: Clearly is he is self aware.

1059
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 5: I find, you know, he's one of the first if

1060
01:02:43,039 --> 01:02:45,000
you when you start going down the rabbit hole of

1061
01:02:45,079 --> 01:02:48,519
a subject, he's probably the first person you'll find. And

1062
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,519
I find a lot of his work very useful, you know.

1063
01:02:51,719 --> 01:02:54,199
And I'm not, you know, communicating with him.

1064
01:02:54,079 --> 01:02:54,719
Speaker 4: As a friend.

1065
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 5: So it doesn't matter to me if he's a diagnosed narcissist,

1066
01:02:57,800 --> 01:02:59,159
psychopath or whatever else.

1067
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 4: If you want to look up a movie called I

1068
01:03:02,199 --> 01:03:04,880
Psychopath on YouTube, I think it's in like eight parts

1069
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,320
or ten parts, it's about him. It's fascinating.

1070
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 5: So anyway, So but here is this super narcissist who

1071
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:15,119
is now on a crusade to fight narcissists, in a

1072
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,800
very grandiose crusade. It's it's a pretty interesting it's a

1073
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:21,800
pretty interesting phenomenon, and I'm pretty sure he understands that.

1074
01:03:22,599 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 2: So he's like Dexter He's going to take out.

1075
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 5: Yes, exactly, He's the Dexter of malignant narcissism.

1076
01:03:29,159 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 4: I mean he's very great.

1077
01:03:30,519 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 5: I mean his book Malignant Self Love Narcissism Are Visited

1078
01:03:34,079 --> 01:03:35,119
is like a Doorstopper.

1079
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:38,039
Speaker 4: It's like books on Heider Girl all put together. It's

1080
01:03:38,119 --> 01:03:40,440
like a thousand pages or something. It's amazing.

1081
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:45,119
Speaker 2: Somebody asked, have you seen the documentary Party Monster, and

1082
01:03:45,159 --> 01:03:46,360
would this guy qualify?

1083
01:03:49,119 --> 01:03:52,599
Speaker 5: I have not, but just based on the title, it

1084
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,760
sounds like this is someone with very low impulse control,

1085
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,920
so clearly there's Again, just based on the title, it's

1086
01:04:00,079 --> 01:04:04,559
it sounds like there are some dysfunctional traits that could

1087
01:04:04,599 --> 01:04:05,079
be present.

1088
01:04:05,239 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 2: Yes, I define, go ahead and remind me who the

1089
01:04:09,119 --> 01:04:12,320
I don't remember who. You said this documentary is about who?

1090
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:15,159
Speaker 5: Well, I think it's as far as popular culture goes,

1091
01:04:15,519 --> 01:04:18,440
I mean, we haven't talked about the borderline personality disorder,

1092
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:22,639
which is usually associated with women, although there's certainly men

1093
01:04:22,719 --> 01:04:27,000
who have that, and sometimes it's described as female narcissism.

1094
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:31,119
The one or two differences is the fact that there's

1095
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:35,280
pretty significant suicidal ideation, and there's some borderlines who are

1096
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,079
kind of harmful to themselves, but there's some who are

1097
01:04:38,119 --> 01:04:41,800
harmful to others. So the two movies that you could

1098
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,480
think of that portray this in popular culture would be Fatal.

1099
01:04:45,239 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 4: Attraction and Single White Female.

1100
01:04:47,559 --> 01:04:51,639
Speaker 5: So if you've ever experienced a female stalker who is

1101
01:04:51,679 --> 01:04:54,559
trying to be like you, trying to interfere in your marriage, etc.

1102
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:55,679
Speaker 2: Etc. Like I have.

1103
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:59,679
Speaker 5: It's a pretty terrifying thing. So that's another sort of

1104
01:05:00,039 --> 01:05:03,559
predatory personality that we haven't discussed. I haven't really covered much,

1105
01:05:03,679 --> 01:05:06,480
but in popular culture it's certainly, it's certainly there.

1106
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 2: Do you have any brief comments on analysis on why

1107
01:05:11,559 --> 01:05:13,920
that manifests the way that it does? What is the

1108
01:05:14,639 --> 01:05:18,559
what's your analysis of why a A? Is it a A?

1109
01:05:18,599 --> 01:05:24,639
An extreme lack of what's the word I'm looking for?

1110
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:26,679
Speaker 3: Are they searching for an identity in.

1111
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:27,199
Speaker 2: Trying to.

1112
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 5: The Usually the official psychological reason is that they experienced

1113
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:38,280
significant childhood trauma. They completely lack their identity, so they

1114
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,519
search and you know, you probably have seen like the

1115
01:05:41,679 --> 01:05:45,960
high school girlfriend with every new boyfriend, she completely adapts

1116
01:05:46,039 --> 01:05:50,239
his music, tastes, his you know, interests, skateboarding, guitars, whatever.

1117
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 4: Like you've seen that. Granted in high school it.

1118
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 5: Might have been, you know, just just a little bit

1119
01:05:55,880 --> 01:06:02,159
of infertility, but yes, it's basically lacking identity. And you know,

1120
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,679
the fact that they have pretty significant suicidal ideations should

1121
01:06:05,679 --> 01:06:08,239
tell you about their emotional state and their mood swings.

1122
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:12,800
But their perception of reality is like with narcissist, is

1123
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:16,199
quite skewed, and you know, to put it in Layman's terms,

1124
01:06:16,239 --> 01:06:18,559
they take it out on you. So and they have

1125
01:06:18,679 --> 01:06:23,360
this insane fear of abandonment which you see in these films.

1126
01:06:24,679 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 2: So Party Monster says, this is the two thousand and

1127
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:31,559
three film directed by Fenton Bailey and Randy Barbato about

1128
01:06:32,159 --> 01:06:35,400
the New York City party promoter named Michael Allig.

1129
01:06:36,199 --> 01:06:39,119
Speaker 4: And he's, oh, I know the story. I have not

1130
01:06:39,239 --> 01:06:41,800
seen a movie interesting supposed.

1131
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:46,159
Speaker 5: To be Yeah, I mean people, Yeah, I mean if

1132
01:06:46,199 --> 01:06:49,599
you if you start looking at you know sometimes I

1133
01:06:50,039 --> 01:06:52,440
binge in the form of a podcast, I guess on

1134
01:06:53,599 --> 01:06:57,039
you know, true crime on YouTube, and you start looking

1135
01:06:57,159 --> 01:07:02,840
at it from that perspective, or the new about certain famous.

1136
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:04,239
Speaker 4: Politician or whoever.

1137
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 5: It really opens your eyes to what's going on and

1138
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:10,960
you can almost predict what the next thing that's going

1139
01:07:11,039 --> 01:07:14,599
to come is because you have looked at these traits

1140
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:18,079
in kind of a complex way.

1141
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:20,079
Speaker 3: So what do you think about American Psycho.

1142
01:07:20,119 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 2: I know it's a satire, but do you think that

1143
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:23,679
it's relevant to this in any way?

1144
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 4: It is relevant?

1145
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 5: I have not seen it, so I probably should refrain

1146
01:07:28,519 --> 01:07:34,960
from from from comments. Let's see, yeah, I mean I

1147
01:07:35,079 --> 01:07:38,679
literally sometimes listen to these I mean again going down

1148
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:42,400
the rabbit hole of crime true crime on YouTube. You know,

1149
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,599
there's a lot of there are a lot of interrogations

1150
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:47,760
like judy areas and things like that. I mean, it's

1151
01:07:48,519 --> 01:07:54,119
pretty pretty fascinating to some of those. What is it

1152
01:07:54,199 --> 01:07:57,960
Al Kamanassian's interrogation? I believe his trial should be starting

1153
01:07:58,079 --> 01:08:00,480
as far as in cells go, either now or it

1154
01:08:00,559 --> 01:08:04,360
has started in Canada, and you listen to the interrogation

1155
01:08:04,599 --> 01:08:07,800
and it's just amazing from you know, in a bad

1156
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:12,000
way to keep recognizing these traits based on what they're saying.

1157
01:08:12,199 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 2: So all right, so the well, look we'll move to

1158
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:19,479
the superchats. Now, by the way, I have Nina's channels

1159
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,520
link there if you want to subscribe to her content.

1160
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:25,800
She's putting out videos pretty regularly on these topics. It's

1161
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,000
there in the description, so subscribe to her.

1162
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 3: And let's see. We got Palmer Eric, He's l I

1163
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:33,119
can't say.

1164
01:08:33,039 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 2: My owes anymore?

1165
01:08:34,359 --> 01:08:37,079
Speaker 3: Is how would you analyse the people who can't say

1166
01:08:37,119 --> 01:08:41,560
now owe is? What's now? Deficiency? Palmer l Rick.

1167
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:46,239
Speaker 2: Two dollars try hearing trying trying hear some.

1168
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:48,600
Speaker 3: Nick cage bring the Cajun rage.

1169
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:51,840
Speaker 2: I don't know about that. Palmer again says thank you

1170
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:54,960
for the quality content, you bet, Palmer, much appreciated for

1171
01:08:55,039 --> 01:08:55,760
those superchats.

1172
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:57,119
Speaker 3: Twenty dollars, much appreciate.

1173
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:02,159
Speaker 2: Russian anime bot five dollars, says my KJB, my KGB

1174
01:09:02,399 --> 01:09:07,039
tithe best to you, comrades. You're welcome, man, Dougan, give

1175
01:09:07,119 --> 01:09:10,239
you a mystical could blessing red now.

1176
01:09:10,319 --> 01:09:13,920
Speaker 4: With yeh KGB FSB g r U or whatever the

1177
01:09:14,039 --> 01:09:19,039
new The new term for it is Mongolia supremacist is

1178
01:09:19,079 --> 01:09:19,479
what I like.

1179
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:20,720
Speaker 3: Mongolian supremacist.

1180
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:27,319
Speaker 2: There we go, blessing fresh, whole milk seven, good work,

1181
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:29,359
comrades from Soviet Union.

1182
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:32,800
Speaker 3: Soon Dugan will destroy all of white men.

1183
01:09:33,079 --> 01:09:34,720
Speaker 2: Yes, that's what we're here for to.

1184
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 4: Have you actually. As a side note, have you seen

1185
01:09:37,039 --> 01:09:38,439
Dugan's Facebook lately?

1186
01:09:39,279 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 3: I do not keep post.

1187
01:09:42,199 --> 01:09:44,720
Speaker 4: I mean it's public content. I think anyone could see it.

1188
01:09:45,239 --> 01:09:48,560
Speaker 5: But he posts these bizarre puppets that I think they're

1189
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:49,760
cats or dogs.

1190
01:09:50,239 --> 01:09:53,079
Speaker 4: They look very retro and creepy, and but it's like

1191
01:09:53,199 --> 01:09:55,920
in a philosophical context, so either he is like a

1192
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:01,000
supertroll or Superman kind of. I'm kind of just he's

1193
01:10:01,039 --> 01:10:01,680
super meaning.

1194
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:05,239
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, Meta, Mimi.

1195
01:10:06,279 --> 01:10:08,279
Speaker 3: Anybody else have any super chats? We had a good

1196
01:10:08,359 --> 01:10:08,720
chat here.

1197
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:09,399
Speaker 2: This is uh.

1198
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 3: I'm trying to keep my shows.

1199
01:10:11,119 --> 01:10:14,159
Speaker 2: Now to around our hour a little over an hour,

1200
01:10:14,279 --> 01:10:17,680
so we've had fun. I had one last question about

1201
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:20,079
do you are you familiar with the technique of mama

1202
01:10:20,159 --> 01:10:22,319
birding in these situations?

1203
01:10:23,359 --> 01:10:25,680
Speaker 4: Sorr? Are you just you're breaking up for me now

1204
01:10:26,239 --> 01:10:27,439
what you said? Uh?

1205
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,359
Speaker 2: In terms of dealing with psychopaths, are you familiar with

1206
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:33,439
the technique that some people recommend of mama birding?

1207
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:34,560
Speaker 4: No?

1208
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:35,119
Speaker 5: I have not.

1209
01:10:35,239 --> 01:10:36,359
Speaker 4: What is that? It's interesting.

1210
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:38,960
Speaker 2: It's basically where you will chew up the food for

1211
01:10:39,159 --> 01:10:41,199
the person, spit it into their mouth, and they're so

1212
01:10:41,399 --> 01:10:44,399
disoriented by this practice that you basically train them to

1213
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:46,680
be your baby bird.

1214
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:49,079
Speaker 4: Have you seen this on Doctor Hill?

1215
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:52,199
Speaker 2: I was just some nonsense I made.

1216
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:54,319
Speaker 4: No, I just.

1217
01:10:59,159 --> 01:11:00,399
Speaker 3: Yes, I saw dude on.

1218
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:03,359
Speaker 2: There was a dude on there the other day who

1219
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:04,680
said that he's Batman.

1220
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:09,319
Speaker 5: Oh okay, I did you see the one with a

1221
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:13,800
lady who was convinced that she's communicating with Putin psychically

1222
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:14,520
or something like that.

1223
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:19,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was kind of awesome, but also kind of disturbing.

1224
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:25,520
Speaker 5: I think obviously they'rey exploited of to have someone that Yeah,

1225
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:26,279
that's what people are.

1226
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 2: I noticed it.

1227
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,279
Speaker 3: There's a couple of episodes where when the people walk off.

1228
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:34,279
Speaker 2: I can't tell what's dramatized and staged drama on that

1229
01:11:34,319 --> 01:11:36,560
show and what's real. But the two times that I

1230
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:40,319
have seen clips of people getting directed to leave, it's

1231
01:11:40,399 --> 01:11:43,439
when they called doctor Phil out on the drama. They're like,

1232
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:46,279
you ain't doing nothing, You ain't doing nothing but sitting

1233
01:11:46,319 --> 01:11:50,560
here trying to capitalize on my situation and call drama

1234
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:51,359
and make a scene.

1235
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:54,680
Speaker 3: That's when he'll go, you need to get up, right

1236
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:56,000
down and walk out of the door.

1237
01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:59,039
Speaker 5: That's why you don't call doctor Phil and narcissis to

1238
01:11:59,159 --> 01:11:59,520
his face.

1239
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:04,359
Speaker 2: Okay, that's how you get looted, all right. Yeah, people

1240
01:12:04,399 --> 01:12:07,439
are in the chatter like wtf to my mama Burder.

1241
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:08,560
Speaker 3: I just always make them.

1242
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:12,359
Speaker 5: Mom, this this is what happens when you have particular

1243
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:13,399
YouTube advertising.

1244
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:16,560
Speaker 4: And obviously J and I have the same Doctor Phil clips.

1245
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:20,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, mine controlled me. I have Doctor Phil is my

1246
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:22,800
handler now and it's no longer do get this my handler,

1247
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:25,199
it's now doctor Phil so there's no telling what.

1248
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 4: That's a lot more. That's a lot more covert, I'm sure.

1249
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:30,279
Speaker 5: Again, don't tell the Daily Beast because this might be

1250
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:31,399
a headline tomorrow.

1251
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 3: So okay, I forgot to put your Twitter on there.

1252
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:37,640
I will put it in the show description later.

1253
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 2: But if you want to follow her on Twitter, it

1254
01:12:40,039 --> 01:12:43,439
is Nina Byzantina, very easy to find and of course

1255
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:47,119
again subscribe to her channel. They're inside the Mind of

1256
01:12:47,159 --> 01:12:48,000
a Human Predator.

1257
01:12:48,039 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 3: A lot of good videos there. Anything else you want

1258
01:12:50,039 --> 01:12:50,960
to leave us with, Nina.

1259
01:12:52,279 --> 01:12:54,520
Speaker 4: I no, thank you for having me.

1260
01:12:54,840 --> 01:13:00,920
Speaker 5: I will try to carefully pursue either the political direction

1261
01:13:01,279 --> 01:13:05,760
or kind of more popular cultural commentary, again with the

1262
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:08,199
within the parameters of YouTube. So I think if people

1263
01:13:08,239 --> 01:13:12,960
are interested in kind of greater meaning behind some of

1264
01:13:13,079 --> 01:13:16,159
these maladaptive traits and how it can apply not only

1265
01:13:16,239 --> 01:13:19,359
to their immediate surroundings, but you know, the greater culture

1266
01:13:19,399 --> 01:13:23,039
at large, international politics, I'm definitely going to pursue that

1267
01:13:23,119 --> 01:13:24,159
angle carefully.

1268
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:26,760
Speaker 2: Awesome, all right, so thank you.

1269
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:30,359
Speaker 3: For having met. I can come back anytime. Oh yeah,

1270
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:32,520
you did one last.

1271
01:13:32,399 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 2: Thing before we go, For people that are interested in

1272
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:36,720
one of your videos, you have a few of the

1273
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:39,000
book recommendations. You don't have to list all five unless

1274
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:40,000
you know them off top of your head. If you

1275
01:13:40,039 --> 01:13:42,520
want to list some of the books that you found relevant,

1276
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:44,159
you have a video on that. But what are the

1277
01:13:44,199 --> 01:13:45,439
ones that you think are good for.

1278
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:48,359
Speaker 5: This possible Nickson Suits is the first one I mentioned

1279
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:51,279
by doctor Hare, and of course you know his other

1280
01:13:51,399 --> 01:13:54,920
work on his other works on psychopaths meant for general

1281
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:59,439
public are very helpful. Joan of Varro's The x FBI

1282
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:05,119
Agent Dangerous Personalities is amazing and he's not a psychologist,

1283
01:14:05,199 --> 01:14:07,800
but as someone who had worked in that criminal field,

1284
01:14:08,279 --> 01:14:11,239
he basically and that was my number one book, which

1285
01:14:11,239 --> 01:14:14,960
is why I'm focusing on it now. He isolates four

1286
01:14:15,079 --> 01:14:18,399
personality types, so it's not quite according to the cluster

1287
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:20,760
B criteria, but sometimes it coincides.

1288
01:14:21,119 --> 01:14:24,119
Speaker 4: And he gives you these amazingly long checklists.

1289
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 5: So if you do have a maladaptive person in your life,

1290
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:28,600
you can look at the one hundred and twenty points,

1291
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:30,520
let's say, for one of them that he gives you,

1292
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:33,039
and you can just kind of check them off to

1293
01:14:33,199 --> 01:14:36,640
see if you know the person you're dealing with is

1294
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:39,359
actually quite harmful and it's not just all in your head.

1295
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:43,800
So that's another book. And there's doctor Romanie's Should I

1296
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:46,840
Stare or Should I Go? A book of narcissism in

1297
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:50,960
terms of exactly what it says, how do I handle

1298
01:14:51,079 --> 01:14:53,039
a situation from which I cannot leave?

1299
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 4: And I believe I had one legal one, which was splitting.

1300
01:15:00,119 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 5: I think it was about divorcing a narcissist or a borderline,

1301
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:06,520
which was more like practical advice. And I cannot, for

1302
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:09,239
the life of me remember what was number five, But

1303
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:12,920
I think my kindle on my iPad has probably fifty

1304
01:15:13,039 --> 01:15:18,239
titles on the subject. Again for popular consumption, but that

1305
01:15:18,399 --> 01:15:20,600
kind of tells you that, you know, they're not the

1306
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:22,920
kinds of books that I'd want to display on a bookshelf,

1307
01:15:23,079 --> 01:15:24,359
but it's.

1308
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:27,199
Speaker 4: Pretty convenient to download them. They're you know, affordable, and

1309
01:15:27,279 --> 01:15:30,239
you could highlight stuff that's useful for you. So a

1310
01:15:30,319 --> 01:15:31,000
lot of those.

1311
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:34,680
Speaker 5: Sounds may sound like captain obvious stuff, but it really

1312
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:38,000
isn't until you've experienced it yourself, and then you can

1313
01:15:38,079 --> 01:15:38,840
look at patterns.

1314
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:41,279
Speaker 4: Most people look at incidents, they do.

1315
01:15:41,399 --> 01:15:44,399
Speaker 5: Not look at patterns, and that's when you you know,

1316
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:46,960
the rose colored glasses fall off and you realize what

1317
01:15:47,039 --> 01:15:48,800
you're dealing with so awesome.

1318
01:15:49,079 --> 01:15:51,840
Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much and probably we'll have you

1319
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:55,359
back Sin to talk about something equally as interesting.

1320
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 4: But this was great more called stuff. Absolutely, Thank you,

1321
01:15:58,119 --> 01:15:59,039
j I'll talk to you soon