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<v Speaker 1>Oh hey, it's all pop here.

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<v Speaker 2>So mowing the lawn in those shorts your mother wishes?

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<v Speaker 2>I throw away Alley ward back with another episode of Ologies.

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<v Speaker 2>Now in this episode, let's just belly up to the coast.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's gaze out over a craggy cliff and stare into

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<v Speaker 2>the glimmering sea. What wonders? What mystery? What possibility? What

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<v Speaker 2>a shit show? We've made it? But is there hope?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I'm not an oceanologist, but that's okay

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<v Speaker 2>because other people are. And you're gonna get the real

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<v Speaker 2>time scoop on whether or not we have missed the boat,

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<v Speaker 2>on saving the sea and what we're doing to make

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<v Speaker 2>it better. So hank tight because before we sit sail

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<v Speaker 2>a few things you can do to help keep this

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<v Speaker 2>podcast afloat. So thank you to the patrons who pledge

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<v Speaker 2>a bucker more a month to the show. You have

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<v Speaker 2>kept it running almost a full year, now, can you

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<v Speaker 2>even it's almost in our anniversary.

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<v Speaker 1>Your questions are great, your hearts are greater.

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<v Speaker 2>If you want to support Ologies via items ologiesmarch dot

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<v Speaker 2>com has you covered literally the link is in the

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<v Speaker 2>show notes. And if you spend all your money on

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<v Speaker 2>a very tiny baseball jersey for your hamster. I get it.

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<v Speaker 2>And you can support ologies with just your words and

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<v Speaker 2>your thumbs by telling friends and tweeting and gramming and

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<v Speaker 2>making sure that you're subscribed. So reviews and ratings are

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<v Speaker 2>free to do. You can just do them and kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like a rodent and clothes. I'm just a little

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<v Speaker 2>creepy and I read every single review because it's really

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<v Speaker 2>nice that you leave them, and it makes me remember

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<v Speaker 2>that there are real human beings in the void listening

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<v Speaker 2>to this. So this week I just want to say

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<v Speaker 2>thank you to Jenny Farn who says every day I

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<v Speaker 2>commute an hour each way to my job, God bless

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<v Speaker 2>you teaching elementary school art, and this podcast is like

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<v Speaker 2>a billion mini hot tubs for my overworked brain cells.

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<v Speaker 2>Will also give me cool stuff to talk to the

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<v Speaker 2>kids about, like shark vomit and why the darn sky

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<v Speaker 2>is blue but not on Mars. Also, I've stolen Burbye

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<v Speaker 2>as my favorite way to exit conversations with hyper six

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<v Speaker 2>year olds and online conversations that have taken a bad turn.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for everything. You're very welcome, Jen Okay Oceanology board,

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<v Speaker 2>are you saying oceanography. Wrong, No, no, my tender bitches,

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<v Speaker 2>I am not so. Oceanology is a thing. It's defined

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<v Speaker 2>as the branch of technology and economics dealing with human.

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<v Speaker 1>Use of the sea.

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<v Speaker 2>So heck, yes, this person is very much an oceanologist.

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<v Speaker 2>Now at warning. Is this the cheeriest of episodes? Is

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<v Speaker 2>it full of warm fuzzies? No, no it's not. But

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<v Speaker 2>is it important? Yes, yes it is. I did my

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<v Speaker 2>best to balance the gloom with some wonder, and I

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<v Speaker 2>promise you it is important enough to stick with the

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<v Speaker 2>entire episode. There's so much good information. Also, a special

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<v Speaker 2>thank you to one of my favorite science in politics

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<v Speaker 2>and Internet heroes, Baritunde Thurston for hooking me up with

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<v Speaker 2>this ologist who I nervously emailed the all caps question.

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<v Speaker 1>How screwed are these oceans?

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<v Speaker 2>Keep listening to hear her answer. So she's based on

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<v Speaker 2>the East Coast, so I had her on my wish list,

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<v Speaker 2>and one day in August I got myself to her

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<v Speaker 2>native Brooklyn, and I tried to pretend I was cool

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<v Speaker 2>enough to be there, and we met up at an

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<v Speaker 2>audio studio at Pioneer Works, which is this beautiful art

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<v Speaker 2>and cultural center and event space where I would love

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<v Speaker 2>to live as a stowaway if they would never find

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<v Speaker 2>me out Now, as a marine biologist and a policy strategist,

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<v Speaker 2>she does TED talks. She's worked with the Environmental Protection

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<v Speaker 2>Agency and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. She's an

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<v Speaker 2>adjunct professor at NYU. She's also an environmental advocate. She

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<v Speaker 2>travels the world working with politicians and communities to make

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<v Speaker 2>their relationship to the oceans healthier. I am just like

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<v Speaker 2>gentle awe of her now. She had just gotten back

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<v Speaker 2>from an occupational adventure the night before, and I just

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<v Speaker 2>had the tape rolling as I waited for her arrival

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<v Speaker 2>in the studio. Way too eager didn't want to miss

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<v Speaker 2>a second, so we talked about her favorite aspects of

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<v Speaker 2>the ocean when she fell in love with it, coral reefs, parrotfish,

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<v Speaker 2>their butts, disgusting whale trivia, even more disgusting plastic trivia,

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<v Speaker 2>the amount of doomed we are, what fish you shouldn't eat,

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<v Speaker 2>and whether or not plastic straws really deserve their evil reputation.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's not all sunny, but she is an expert

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<v Speaker 2>who will real talk us all into action, So please

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<v Speaker 2>get ready to listen to the crashing waves of wisdom

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<v Speaker 2>from oceanologist doctor Ayana Elizabeth Johnson. So, do you need

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<v Speaker 2>a minute, do you need anything else?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm good?

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<v Speaker 2>Or do you just want me to start lobbing questions

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<v Speaker 2>about oceans?

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<v Speaker 3>I do.

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<v Speaker 1>I just got back from the oceans.

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<v Speaker 2>So you just got back in the ocean like five

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<v Speaker 2>minutes ago, pretty much.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>How much of your work is in the field in

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<v Speaker 2>the ocean and how much is like traveling around making policy?

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<v Speaker 2>Because I know that you do both.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't have an active research program right now, so

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<v Speaker 1>in the ocean, I'm just kind of like checking it

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<v Speaker 1>out or hanging out, keeping in touch with the ecosystems

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<v Speaker 1>and what's going on down there. So most of my

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<v Speaker 1>work is more so than policy specifically, just strategy work.

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<v Speaker 1>How do all these different organizations make their campaigns better,

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<v Speaker 1>their communications better, policy work more strategic. So Ocean Collective,

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<v Speaker 1>the company I founded, is a consulting group that's ports

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<v Speaker 1>other organizations trying to amp up the impact of their

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<v Speaker 1>conservation efforts. It's thirteen incredible experts from professional surfers, marine biologists,

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<v Speaker 1>underwater robot makers, filmmakers, policy experts, and we're all just

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<v Speaker 1>coming together as this team to try to see what

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<v Speaker 1>we can do to help.

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<v Speaker 2>And can we talk about your background a little bit about.

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<v Speaker 1>Your totally love of the ocean. That was so melodic.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought you were going to like ask me questions

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<v Speaker 1>about my former acappella career. So did you have a

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<v Speaker 1>former acapella career? I maybe did. Yeah, it was a

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<v Speaker 1>jazz singer for most of my youth.

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<v Speaker 2>Really side note, I'm sorry I sang it you. And

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<v Speaker 2>also I asked if she had any music of hers

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<v Speaker 2>that I could put in here, and she said, no,

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<v Speaker 2>no jazz clips to share. Sorry about that, so I

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<v Speaker 2>did try. Okay, all right, back to the sea. When

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<v Speaker 2>when did you get into oceans and marine biology? When

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<v Speaker 2>did you decide to take that path?

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<v Speaker 1>When I was five, I learned to swim in the

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<v Speaker 1>Florida Keys on a family vacation. My parents would be

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<v Speaker 1>down there specifically to teach me to swim, and I

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<v Speaker 1>went on a gloss bottom boat and I saw crawl

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<v Speaker 1>rey for the first time, and it blew my damn mind.

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<v Speaker 1>It was so incredible. I mean just it's like a

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<v Speaker 1>window to another world. Right. You look down and there's

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<v Speaker 1>just fish and coral and all these colorful things that

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<v Speaker 1>you could never have imagined. So that for me was

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<v Speaker 1>the moment that I just wanted to know everything about

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<v Speaker 1>the ocean.

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<v Speaker 2>So Iana went on to get a bachelor's degree from

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<v Speaker 2>just this little startup college called in the field of

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<v Speaker 2>environmental science and public policy. She also obtained a PhD

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<v Speaker 2>from Script's Institute of Oceanography in marine biology, studying coral

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<v Speaker 2>reef sustainability. Now during all of that, did she ever

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<v Speaker 2>think like, maybe I should switch my major to bagpiping,

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<v Speaker 2>like just take I could turn into something totally non oceanic.

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<v Speaker 1>I decided pretty early on not to take any turns.

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<v Speaker 1>So my PhD is technically in marine biology, but it

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<v Speaker 1>was done through an interdisciplinary program at the SCRIPTS and

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<v Speaker 1>Soution of Oceanography that was partnering with the Economics department

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<v Speaker 1>to make sure that ocean conservation was integrating all these

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<v Speaker 1>different things, because it's really a puzzle, right. There's a science,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's the policy, there's the communications, there's the law

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<v Speaker 1>and economics, and so I wanted to make sure that

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<v Speaker 1>I had at least a reasonable handle on all these

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<v Speaker 1>different pieces of the puzzle so that I could go

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<v Speaker 1>out into the world and help to try to solve

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<v Speaker 1>it in a broader sense. There's obviously like a strong

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<v Speaker 1>need for people to go really deeply into each of

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<v Speaker 1>those Like, for example, I'm really glad there are people

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<v Speaker 1>out there who just study octopuses and like tell us

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<v Speaker 1>everything they learn because they're amazing by the way my

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<v Speaker 1>mind works. And what I'm passionate about is that bigger

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<v Speaker 1>picture puzzle and how we can really shift human relationship

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<v Speaker 1>with the ocean, because the ocean is obviously like it's

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<v Speaker 1>doing everything right. It's humans that are causing all these challenges.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's the piece that I focus on.

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<v Speaker 2>So here's how I thought I would split up the episode.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, everyone's like, how can we make the ocean

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<v Speaker 2>less fucked? Like we've really, we've really messed.

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<v Speaker 1>Up, that's the question.

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<v Speaker 2>So I thought we would start with, let's talk about

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<v Speaker 2>the good things about the ocean.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, there's lots, and.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm going to essentially play like good cop, bad cop.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to ask you all the good questions, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to let the patrons ask all the what

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<v Speaker 2>are we going to do plastic? Oh my god, we're

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<v Speaker 2>all gonna die. So I'm going to ask I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to ask you the happy questions about the ocean before

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<v Speaker 2>we get to oh my god, what are we going

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<v Speaker 2>to do? I would love to know did you ever

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<v Speaker 2>have well, it sounds like when you were looking in

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<v Speaker 2>that glass bottle both you had kind of an epiphany

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<v Speaker 2>that there's this whole world under the sea that you

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<v Speaker 2>never realized. Have you had any other kind of epiphanies

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<v Speaker 2>about the ocean or yeah, any other moments that you've had.

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<v Speaker 1>So when I started my PhD research, I was I

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<v Speaker 1>was thinking about fishing and how it can be really

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<v Speaker 1>wasteful you catch fish that you don't end up using.

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<v Speaker 1>And in fact, a recent research project I've been doing

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<v Speaker 1>for WWF, the World Wildlife Fund, I learned that half

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<v Speaker 1>of the seafood we catch in the US and EU

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<v Speaker 1>is wasted somewhere along with supply chain. It's just insane.

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<v Speaker 1>But there's also like the unsustainable aspects of fishing. They're

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<v Speaker 1>both problems. So I'm already diving, no problems, but I

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<v Speaker 1>swear I'm getting to the good stuff. So fishing can

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<v Speaker 1>overfishing is a problem, and unsustainable fishing, and then what

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<v Speaker 1>we do with what we catch is a whole separate issue,

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<v Speaker 1>but I was focused on how can we redesign fishing

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<v Speaker 1>gear to make it more sustainable, and so I worked

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<v Speaker 1>with fishermen and the fisheries department in Curasau in the

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<v Speaker 1>Caribbean to redesign their fish traps to let babystickle, the

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<v Speaker 1>baby fish and the ornamental the nemo shaped skinny species

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<v Speaker 1>out of the traps. And it turns out you can

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<v Speaker 1>let out eighty percent of the bycatch the fish you

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<v Speaker 1>don't mean to catch without herting fishermen's incomes because all

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<v Speaker 1>the valuable fish stay inside. It's basically just inch wide

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<v Speaker 1>slot down the side of the trap that lets all

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<v Speaker 1>the little guys out. And you can't do it with

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<v Speaker 1>a just making it a larger mesh size because then

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<v Speaker 1>you have like a big, a big hole that any

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<v Speaker 1>fish could get out, including the valuable ones.

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<v Speaker 2>So do google her paper entitled quote Reducing bycatch in

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<v Speaker 2>coral reef trap fisheries escape gaps as a step towards

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<v Speaker 2>sustainability for more on this I did, and then reading

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<v Speaker 2>the abstract, I did a little yay way to go

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<v Speaker 2>squeal about it. Now there are also diagrams online and

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<v Speaker 2>the regular fish traps that snag all of those other

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<v Speaker 2>little fishies can just be retrofitted with side panels that

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<v Speaker 2>have little narrow slits for little fishies to sneak out

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<v Speaker 2>and say later days, dude, I've got more growing to do,

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<v Speaker 2>or you don't even eat my species. It's a set

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<v Speaker 2>eventually the equivalent of an Irish goodbye for coral reef fish.

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<v Speaker 1>So that was really exciting to me because it was

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<v Speaker 1>a moment where I saw that you don't actually need

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<v Speaker 1>super high technology in all these cases. You just need

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<v Speaker 1>to think practically about solutions, and if you work with

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<v Speaker 1>the fishing community and with the government, these things can

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<v Speaker 1>actually become law. And so encouris how that type of

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<v Speaker 1>trap design is now required and in a few other

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<v Speaker 1>places as well, in Barbuda, and I think they're using

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<v Speaker 1>it in Kenya. So that was super exciting to me

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<v Speaker 1>because you can this idea of low tech solutions I

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<v Speaker 1>think is underappreciated, right, So that was a really eye

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<v Speaker 1>opening moment and which led to the next one, which

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<v Speaker 1>was it's not actually about fish. Wait, it's not about

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<v Speaker 1>the fish. Did I hear that right? It's not actually

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<v Speaker 1>about fish.

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<v Speaker 2>This reminds me of one of my favorite scenes from

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<v Speaker 2>one of my favorite movies, Adaptation, which bears the iconic

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<v Speaker 2>line from a former aquarium enthusiast, I once fell.

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<v Speaker 3>Deeply, you know, profoundly in love with tropical fish.

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<v Speaker 2>Until he grows bored.

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<v Speaker 3>In one day, I say fuck fish. I renounce fish.

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<v Speaker 3>I vowed never to set foot in that ocean again.

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<v Speaker 3>That's how much fuck fish now.

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<v Speaker 2>Two things, that clip from Adaptation is so beloved that

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<v Speaker 2>someone has built a website at fuck dot fish. That's

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<v Speaker 2>only that clip from the movie. You just press play

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<v Speaker 2>and enjoy. Secondly, that wasn't Ayana's deal at all. When

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<v Speaker 2>she says it's not actually about fish, she means that

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<v Speaker 2>she loves fish so much she had to take a

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<v Speaker 2>step back and look at the bigger picture.

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<v Speaker 1>I had done all this work, like counting fish and

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<v Speaker 1>surveying fish populations on coral reefs, and then I was like, actually,

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<v Speaker 1>it's about fishermen, it's about coastal communities. It is about

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<v Speaker 1>the tourism sector and how people are impact in the ocean.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's when my research shifted to doing hundreds of

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<v Speaker 1>these socioeconomic interviews with people across the Caribbean. From this

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<v Speaker 1>mindset that I had to understand and people how people

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<v Speaker 1>were using the ocean, what problems they saw, what solutions

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<v Speaker 1>they would support. Ask them if they could write the

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<v Speaker 1>laws to manage the ocean, what would they be, And

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<v Speaker 1>then see what I could learn from all these experts

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<v Speaker 1>who spent more hours than I ever have in and

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<v Speaker 1>on the ocean.

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<v Speaker 2>So in order to save species in the ocean, we

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<v Speaker 2>have to look at the humans on land and like

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<v Speaker 2>what they're even doing?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, human behavior and like what makes us tick and

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<v Speaker 1>our incentives and motivations and culture.

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<v Speaker 2>That makes so much sense because the fish are like,

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<v Speaker 2>don't look at me, dude, Like I'm not the one

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<v Speaker 2>rooting exactly, Like I'm.

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<v Speaker 1>Just simming around. I like find a snack, make some babies,

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<v Speaker 1>like not get munched by a shark or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>But you're like, hey, humans, let's look. Yeah, let's put

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<v Speaker 2>the microscope on you guys for a minute.

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<v Speaker 1>Time out, let's think through this.

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<v Speaker 2>So, oceans, it's not you, it's us. It really really,

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<v Speaker 2>really really really is us. But anyway, okay, sorry, this

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<v Speaker 2>portion is the positive portion of the episode. Let's try

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<v Speaker 2>to stick to the light fun stuff before the conversation

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<v Speaker 2>gets a little bleak. Can you give some like an

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<v Speaker 2>anatomy lesson of the ocean, some zones. What's an ocean

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<v Speaker 2>versus what's a sea? Like just basic dumb questions.

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<v Speaker 1>So the way that we talk about the ocean has

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<v Speaker 1>changed a lot in the past decade, and now we

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<v Speaker 1>say the ocean. It's really one ocean. It's all connected,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's these different sort of parts that we name

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<v Speaker 1>seas and to have different ocean titles, but there's currents

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<v Speaker 1>that run through and connect everything. So I guess the

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<v Speaker 1>easy answer is it's just the ocean. Oh yeah, So

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<v Speaker 1>there's the Caribbean Sea in the Mediterranean Sea, and there's

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<v Speaker 1>the Lantic Pacific in India and all these oceans. But

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<v Speaker 1>really it's all one big thing. And then as the

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<v Speaker 1>zones that are more important when I think about the ocean,

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<v Speaker 1>I think about sort of the depths of the ocean.

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<v Speaker 1>The shallower waters where there's more sunlight have a very

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<v Speaker 1>different thing going on than super deep parts of the ocean.

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<v Speaker 1>And so it's a lot of it as about temperature

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<v Speaker 1>and sunlight that creates these different zones.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, quick quick rundown of ocean zones. We covered this

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<v Speaker 2>in the Ichnology fish episode. But who doesn't love a

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<v Speaker 2>refresher course. So let's break it down. Now, epipologic is

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<v Speaker 2>at the top. This zone from the surface to about

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred meters or six hundred feet down gets some sunshine,

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<v Speaker 2>so plants grow. The bulk of ocean life hangs out

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<v Speaker 2>there below that are the mesopolagic, bathy polagic, abysso polagic,

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<v Speaker 2>and finally the very bottom the hatal zones. Now, the

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<v Speaker 2>average depth of the ocean is about thirty seven hundred

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<v Speaker 2>meters and its deepest known point is almost seven miles

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<v Speaker 2>below the surface in a trench near Guam. I'm just

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<v Speaker 2>thirsty for stats. Here's another good one.

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<v Speaker 1>That ninety seven percent of the water on Earth is

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<v Speaker 1>in the ocean. So when we think about fresh water

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<v Speaker 1>and drinking water, that's a good like reality check on

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<v Speaker 1>how important it is to be careful with our water.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure that like children asking this, but the ocean, why

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<v Speaker 2>is it salty? I'm just gonna ask. I'm gonna ask.

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<v Speaker 1>The ocean was formed by like all this stuff that

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<v Speaker 1>comes off of land, right, So all the rocks that

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<v Speaker 1>are sort of eroding over time into the sea have

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<v Speaker 1>different things in them that make the ocean salty. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think Over time, things change, right as evaporation happens

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<v Speaker 1>and things like that, So salinity can fluctuate a bit.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's actually part of what creates these large ocean currents,

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<v Speaker 1>is how salinity has an effect on things. Because if

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<v Speaker 1>you've ever had the chance to go in the ocean

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<v Speaker 1>after it rains, you'll realize that it's in the Caribbean anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>So this just happened to me. I jumped in the

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<v Speaker 1>Caribbean sea after a rainstorm, and there's a layer of

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<v Speaker 1>fresh water on top that's cold, like cool rain, and

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<v Speaker 1>then the ocean underneath it is salty and warm. Because

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<v Speaker 1>salt water is heavier, it's more dense, and so it's

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<v Speaker 1>and colder water is also more dense than it sinks,

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<v Speaker 1>and so that sets up can set up either like

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<v Speaker 1>layers or currents that are are moved just by like

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<v Speaker 1>these gradients in slinity and temperature.

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<v Speaker 2>So imagine dense cold water and dense saltwater doing a

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<v Speaker 2>very fluid kind of sensual tango. Now I'm still trying

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<v Speaker 2>to keep this half of the episode light and sunny.

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<v Speaker 2>So okay, let's see questions about the oceans that are

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<v Speaker 2>not depressing. Okay, all right. Was she always into like

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<v Speaker 2>messages in a bottle like the world's oldest one was

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00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:40.119
<v Speaker 2>found earlier this year in Western Australia bearing a note

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<v Speaker 2>from a German naval vessel from eighteen eighty six. Maybe

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<v Speaker 2>that's fun.

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<v Speaker 1>I was super into picking up like shells and pieces

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<v Speaker 1>of sea glass and things like that. I was always

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<v Speaker 1>enamored by the things that you would find on the beach,

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<v Speaker 1>but not messages per se. Right, do you.

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<v Speaker 2>Still have any of your seashells?

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<v Speaker 1>And ohto you do? Yeah? I started a shell collection

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<v Speaker 1>when I was five in Key West, Florida, and I

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<v Speaker 1>usually find one shell from every beach I go to.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you couldn't. I don't want to like take

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<v Speaker 1>all the pretty things, but and sometimes I take just

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<v Speaker 1>like a little tiny fleck of something to just put

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<v Speaker 1>in my I have a fish bowl full of one

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<v Speaker 1>tiny thing from each to beach I've ever been to.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, do you have a name for that fishbowl or

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<v Speaker 2>is this a fishball?

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<v Speaker 1>Now?

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<v Speaker 2>Have you been to all of the what would have

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<v Speaker 2>been considered oceans?

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<v Speaker 1>And I've spent a lot of time in the Caribbean,

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of time in the Mediterranean, the Atlantic,

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<v Speaker 1>but very little time in the Pacific, just the whole

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<v Speaker 1>world of Pacific islands. I haven't been to yet.

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<v Speaker 2>Now is it true that the Pacific Island, that the

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<v Speaker 2>Pacific Ocean was named because they thought it was calmer?

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's right. Is that not to be the case?

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<v Speaker 2>A little backstory, So Portuguese explorer Magellan had hit some

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<v Speaker 2>shitty conditions through what's now known as the Straits of

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<v Speaker 2>Magellan near the southern tip of Chili. This was in

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<v Speaker 2>the fifteen hundreds, and rounding the corner into the Pacific Basin.

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<v Speaker 1>He was like, oh, so much better.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so calm here, it's so Pacific, hence the name.

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<v Speaker 2>But not all of it is calm, however, but in

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<v Speaker 2>the equatorial region of the sea, that part tends to

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<v Speaker 2>have kind of a more chill vibe, less wind activity,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's technically called the doldrums, that is the maritime

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<v Speaker 2>term for it. So the next time you're having kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like a ho hum period of your life, I

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00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:39.680
<v Speaker 2>guess just take comfort that life isn't tossing you around

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<v Speaker 2>and making you barf into its violent currents. See this

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<v Speaker 2>is the optimistic part of the episode. Do you listen

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<v Speaker 2>to any ocean apps on your phone to chill out.

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<v Speaker 1>Like ocean sound like, yeah, no, I put earplugs in

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<v Speaker 1>and just like zone all the way out.

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<v Speaker 2>I wasn't sure if someone who studies the ocean and

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<v Speaker 2>has dedicated their life to essentially saving the ocean would

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<v Speaker 2>be like I don't want to hear an app because

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<v Speaker 2>it's just a bad simulation.

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<v Speaker 1>Or yeah, I'm a pretty light sleeper, Okay, so I

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<v Speaker 1>like complete silence, and I think, yeah, as someone who

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<v Speaker 1>is like ninety five percent vegan mm hmm and who

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<v Speaker 1>never eats fake meat, is maybe the same thing, right,

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00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:29.680
<v Speaker 1>Like I'm not going to go have like a soy

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<v Speaker 1>hot dog and I'm not going to listen to like

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00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:33.000
<v Speaker 1>fake ocean sounds.

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00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:37.799
<v Speaker 2>Do you do a lot of like diving? Did you

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00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:38.960
<v Speaker 2>have to do a lot of diving?

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00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:41.599
<v Speaker 1>I used to. Yeah. For my PHDV search, I did

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00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:43.799
<v Speaker 1>three or four hundred dives.

401
00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:46.079
<v Speaker 2>Do you like being underwater? I know some people are

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00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:48.640
<v Speaker 2>like it's so beautiful, it's like I'm flying, and other

403
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:50.640
<v Speaker 2>people like it's so big, it's terrifying.

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00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:54.240
<v Speaker 1>It's pretty cool. Yeah. I mean some people think that

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00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:56.640
<v Speaker 1>if you don't scuba dive, you can't experience the ocean

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00:21:56.680 --> 00:21:59.519
<v Speaker 1>fully and I totally disagree with that. I think scuba

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00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:02.480
<v Speaker 1>diving is nice because I can't hold my breath for

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<v Speaker 1>an hour.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I neither can.

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00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:06.079
<v Speaker 1>I I only learn to dive when I realized that

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<v Speaker 1>I needed to as a tool for my scientific research.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's pretty neat. I mean, to be able to,

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00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:17.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, be underwater long enough to really watch the

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00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:21.799
<v Speaker 1>behavior of an octopus or a parrot fish or whatever

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00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:25.920
<v Speaker 1>it is is an amazing opportunity. But I think snorkeling

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00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:29.559
<v Speaker 1>is underrated. Yeah. I think more people should get like

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00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:33.759
<v Speaker 1>super into snorkeling because you can see so much just bye,

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00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:35.839
<v Speaker 1>you know, diving down and taking a look and being

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<v Speaker 1>in shallow water. So I hate the thought that people

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<v Speaker 1>think if you're not scuba diving and then like why

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<v Speaker 1>bother because there's so much you can learn about the

422
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:48.319
<v Speaker 1>sea and just enjoy, like the spectacular creatures from the

423
00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:51.160
<v Speaker 1>surface or from like a little shallow dive down with

424
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:51.799
<v Speaker 1>your mask on.

425
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:53.960
<v Speaker 2>You just got to learn that trick where you blow

426
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:57.200
<v Speaker 2>the water out when you surface. Right, Yeah, okay, is

427
00:22:57.240 --> 00:22:57.920
<v Speaker 2>that hard to master?

428
00:22:58.160 --> 00:22:58.319
<v Speaker 3>Now?

429
00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:02.119
<v Speaker 1>You can totally do it. Anyone can do. Or sometimes

430
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:04.559
<v Speaker 1>when I don't have enough air, left in my lungs.

431
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:07.319
<v Speaker 1>When I come after the surface, for whatever reason, I

432
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:10.480
<v Speaker 1>just take the mouthpiece out and just breathe are normally

433
00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:14.960
<v Speaker 1>you could do that too. There are definitely ways that

434
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:16.519
<v Speaker 1>anyone can figure this out.

435
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:19.480
<v Speaker 2>But as long as we're banding about some facts, why

436
00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:22.680
<v Speaker 2>is the sea such a pretty blue? Well, same reason

437
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:25.559
<v Speaker 2>the sky is. The water absorbs the redder part of

438
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:29.359
<v Speaker 2>the visible spectrum and then the shorter, bluer wavelengths bounce

439
00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:34.640
<v Speaker 2>back at our faces. Most scientists, especially oceanologists, agree that

440
00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:36.119
<v Speaker 2>this is very pretty.

441
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:39.440
<v Speaker 1>The one thing it reminds me of is how the

442
00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:43.000
<v Speaker 1>color of blue and shallower water changes based on the

443
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:45.400
<v Speaker 1>color of the sand. So if you have really white sand,

444
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:48.720
<v Speaker 1>you have really bright turquoise in the shallow water, and

445
00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:50.640
<v Speaker 1>then as the sand gets different colors, you get kind

446
00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:53.279
<v Speaker 1>of different colors of blue. So it matters what the

447
00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:55.559
<v Speaker 1>bottom is. If you have like a dark rocky bottom

448
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:57.359
<v Speaker 1>or like a volcanic it's different.

449
00:23:57.480 --> 00:23:59.200
<v Speaker 2>And I didn't realize that a lot of white sand

450
00:23:59.240 --> 00:23:59.960
<v Speaker 2>is coral sand.

451
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:02.519
<v Speaker 1>R Yeah, yeah, and a lot of it came out

452
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:06.960
<v Speaker 1>of a parrotfish's but yeah, So parrotfish are my favorite fish.

453
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:08.920
<v Speaker 1>They have a beak like a parrot and they come

454
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:12.240
<v Speaker 1>in all these like teal, yellow, green, red, magenta, like

455
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:15.440
<v Speaker 1>amazing colors, and they have a beak like a parrotfish,

456
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:18.200
<v Speaker 1>and they a bite. They scrape algae off the reef.

457
00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:21.880
<v Speaker 1>Basically they are the lawnmowers of the reef, a very

458
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:26.319
<v Speaker 1>important job. And as they're doing that scraping, they get

459
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:30.440
<v Speaker 1>bits of dead coral or rocks, and then they digest

460
00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:32.960
<v Speaker 1>that and they poop sand. So if you're on a

461
00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:35.720
<v Speaker 1>reef with a lot of parrotfish, and this is where

462
00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:38.720
<v Speaker 1>it's actually very cool to be diving, and you look

463
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:40.960
<v Speaker 1>out at the landscape of the reef and you see

464
00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:42.720
<v Speaker 1>all these fish swimming over it, and a lot of

465
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:45.759
<v Speaker 1>them are parrotfish, and they're just like leaving trails of

466
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:48.079
<v Speaker 1>sand in the water behind them. But it looks like

467
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:51.000
<v Speaker 1>these like con trails of parrotfish poop, as if the

468
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:53.440
<v Speaker 1>sea was the sky and they were airplanes.

469
00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:54.640
<v Speaker 2>I had no idea.

470
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:57.680
<v Speaker 1>It's pretty amazing. So some beaches are like ninety something

471
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:01.720
<v Speaker 1>percent like parrotfish poops. I mean, it is coral and

472
00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:05.119
<v Speaker 1>rocks and stuff, but it's like that's how it's been pulverized.

473
00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:06.799
<v Speaker 2>You're like, thanks dudes.

474
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:09.519
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much. And so there's a push right

475
00:25:09.559 --> 00:25:13.279
<v Speaker 1>now to protect these fish because they're doing such important

476
00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:16.200
<v Speaker 1>work of taking algae off the reef, because alga grows

477
00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:19.880
<v Speaker 1>so much faster than coral. Coral only grows a centimeter

478
00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:22.519
<v Speaker 1>or so a year, whereas algae, like plants, just go

479
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:27.119
<v Speaker 1>gangbusters and wes we're putting in more nutrients are running

480
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:29.640
<v Speaker 1>off into the ocean from different kinds of human pollution,

481
00:25:29.799 --> 00:25:34.799
<v Speaker 1>agriculture in particular. You're seeing that the algae is basically

482
00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:36.960
<v Speaker 1>being fertilized, so it's growing even faster and there's more

483
00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:39.720
<v Speaker 1>of it. So we need these parrotfish, these lawnmowers more

484
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:42.599
<v Speaker 1>than ever. And so there's a bunch of people working

485
00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:44.920
<v Speaker 1>on campaigns around the world to protect.

486
00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:47.200
<v Speaker 2>Parrotfish, protect sand butts.

487
00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:49.359
<v Speaker 1>Protect their the sand poopers.

488
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:52.519
<v Speaker 2>What's the most beautiful thing you've ever seen in the ocean?

489
00:25:52.839 --> 00:25:59.759
<v Speaker 1>Oh, that's such a good question. Oddly, because we were

490
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:02.000
<v Speaker 1>just talking about the colors of blue. The thing that

491
00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:05.279
<v Speaker 1>comes to mind for me is just really really clear

492
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:08.839
<v Speaker 1>water and being able to see like one hundred feet

493
00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:13.720
<v Speaker 1>and that's pretty amazing that just that clarity of being

494
00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:19.039
<v Speaker 1>underwater and being and really being able to see.

495
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Here we veered off into a whole discussion about the

496
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:22.759
<v Speaker 2>horrors of shrimp. But I'm just gonna stick with this

497
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:25.680
<v Speaker 2>format of a happy first half of the episode. More

498
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:28.720
<v Speaker 2>on shrimp in just a few minutes, just a few

499
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:31.480
<v Speaker 2>more wistful, positive things, and then we're going to get

500
00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:35.559
<v Speaker 2>to Patreon questions and ocean sadness. I'm just trying to

501
00:26:35.559 --> 00:26:38.000
<v Speaker 2>stick with this vision. It's hard. Do you have a

502
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:42.039
<v Speaker 2>favorite movie or book set in, set in or about

503
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:44.640
<v Speaker 2>the ocean? Do you have like an escapist movie where

504
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:46.640
<v Speaker 2>you're like, ah, love that ocean?

505
00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:49.359
<v Speaker 1>The Life Aquatic is pretty good. Really, yeah, I'm really

506
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:53.440
<v Speaker 1>cracks me up, especially because it captures like the ridiculousness

507
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:57.119
<v Speaker 1>of light on boats and like, yeah, trying to capture

508
00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:01.319
<v Speaker 1>rare creatures and get along in tight living quarders with

509
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:03.799
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of weird scientists and yeah, that's a good one.

510
00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:09.680
<v Speaker 1>And I'm writing a children's book about the ocean. Oh,

511
00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:12.079
<v Speaker 1>it's about a little black girl from Brooklyn who goes

512
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:13.920
<v Speaker 1>to the Caribbean, falls in love with the ocean, and

513
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:16.279
<v Speaker 1>decides to try to save it. But on earth to

514
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:17.759
<v Speaker 1>do with that idea? I don't know. It just like

515
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:20.720
<v Speaker 1>came to me to dream. Do you have a title

516
00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:23.039
<v Speaker 1>for it yet? Can you say no? Not yet. I'm

517
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:26.960
<v Speaker 1>just like starting to finish up the very first draft,

518
00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:29.880
<v Speaker 1>so I don't have an agent or anything for it yet,

519
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:32.839
<v Speaker 1>but stay tuned. Oh my god, heads up.

520
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:35.519
<v Speaker 2>If you are a literary agent listening to this and

521
00:27:35.559 --> 00:27:38.200
<v Speaker 2>you're not the one to reach out to doctor Johnson

522
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:40.119
<v Speaker 2>to get this idea, made I feel bad for you,

523
00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:42.599
<v Speaker 2>because this book is going to be so good. Also,

524
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:45.240
<v Speaker 2>as she was grabbing something out of her purse at

525
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:47.519
<v Speaker 2>this moment, she told me a very wonderful story.

526
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:49.480
<v Speaker 1>Loved to have.

527
00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm, that's so great.

528
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:55.319
<v Speaker 3>I know.

529
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:02.039
<v Speaker 2>I never leave the house about what.

530
00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:04.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I have a friend who does a lot of

531
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:05.440
<v Speaker 1>theater work.

532
00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:05.880
<v Speaker 2>M h.

533
00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:08.960
<v Speaker 1>I met up with her when I was just coming

534
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:11.039
<v Speaker 1>back from a trip out to Long Island, and I

535
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:13.640
<v Speaker 1>was telling her about it and she introduced me to

536
00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:17.279
<v Speaker 1>another person as a marine biologist. And then I was like, yeah,

537
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:19.839
<v Speaker 1>but I didn't even like use my snorkel this weekend

538
00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:21.480
<v Speaker 1>and like pull it out of my person. She was like,

539
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:24.279
<v Speaker 1>I would never even use that in like a play.

540
00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:27.960
<v Speaker 1>It's just so over the top that you carry this. No,

541
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:31.039
<v Speaker 1>so sometimes like pull snorkels out of my handbag.

542
00:28:31.160 --> 00:28:33.279
<v Speaker 2>Okay, this is where we're going to take a turn.

543
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:39.119
<v Speaker 1>All right, I'm ready.

544
00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:42.119
<v Speaker 2>We're going to ask some questions from patroons. Now this

545
00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:44.200
<v Speaker 2>is we've talked all about how wonderful the ocean is.

546
00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:48.920
<v Speaker 2>It's time to get into maybe the darker stuff that

547
00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:51.519
<v Speaker 2>we're like. This is where like the sad music would

548
00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:53.759
<v Speaker 2>be cute, like you've really fallen in love with a

549
00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:56.160
<v Speaker 2>character in a movie and then you find out that, like, yeah,

550
00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:58.720
<v Speaker 2>you know whatever, they have a horrible disease. So okay,

551
00:28:58.839 --> 00:29:01.119
<v Speaker 2>let's do it. Let's get into the sad stuff via

552
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:04.359
<v Speaker 2>questions from the Ologies Patreon patrons.

553
00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Let's dive in.

554
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:10.279
<v Speaker 2>But before we take questions from you, our beloved listeners,

555
00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:12.559
<v Speaker 2>we're going to take a quick break for sponsors of

556
00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:15.279
<v Speaker 2>the show. Sponsors. Why sponsors? You know what they do?

557
00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:18.359
<v Speaker 2>They help us give money to different charities every week.

558
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:20.920
<v Speaker 2>So if you want to know where Ologies gives our money,

559
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:23.599
<v Speaker 2>you can go to Aliward dot com and look for

560
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:26.720
<v Speaker 2>the tab Ologies gives back. There's like one hundred and

561
00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:29.880
<v Speaker 2>fifty different charities that we've given to already, with more

562
00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:32.039
<v Speaker 2>every single week. So if you need a place to

563
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:33.519
<v Speaker 2>go donate a little bit of money, but you're not

564
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:36.640
<v Speaker 2>sure where to go. Those are all picked biologists who

565
00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:40.200
<v Speaker 2>work in those fields, and this ad break allows us

566
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:43.519
<v Speaker 2>to give a ton of money to them. So thanks

567
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:47.599
<v Speaker 2>for listening and thank sponsors. Okay, your questions.

568
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:50.359
<v Speaker 1>So Becca asks how bad?

569
00:29:50.759 --> 00:29:53.279
<v Speaker 2>Just point blank? How bad have we found up the oceans?

570
00:29:53.559 --> 00:29:56.079
<v Speaker 2>Is it salvageable or are we just playing a sad

571
00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:59.079
<v Speaker 2>waiting game. So she says, it makes me really emotional

572
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:01.400
<v Speaker 2>to think about the discuss and terrifying things down there.

573
00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:03.559
<v Speaker 2>Who are going to die because people are assholes? And

574
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:06.160
<v Speaker 2>then Mama Awesome said, this is also my question.

575
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:09.920
<v Speaker 1>So this is like, this is the big question, how bad?

576
00:30:10.279 --> 00:30:12.440
<v Speaker 1>Really bad? He's the answer, it's really bad.

577
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:18.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh maon, this is like the scene where a corseted

578
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:21.440
<v Speaker 2>heroin cough's blood into a white kerchief. Here we go.

579
00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:25.720
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we have done an amazing job of messing

580
00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:29.880
<v Speaker 1>up the ocean on a planetary scale. We've completely changed

581
00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:35.519
<v Speaker 1>the chemistry of seawater through polluting the air with carbon dioxide.

582
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:38.519
<v Speaker 1>The ocean is absorbing thirty percent of that and so

583
00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:41.960
<v Speaker 1>it's acidifying the oceans, which makes it hard for things

584
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:44.400
<v Speaker 1>with shells to grow their shells, makes it hard for

585
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:50.319
<v Speaker 1>fish to smell their homes and navigate and make them

586
00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:52.640
<v Speaker 1>a little bit delusional and not run away from predators.

587
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:55.240
<v Speaker 1>There's all these different things that we're just learning about

588
00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:59.160
<v Speaker 1>that changing the very chemistry of the ocean is doing

589
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:02.880
<v Speaker 1>so so that's pretty bad. And just the warming of it.

590
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:06.319
<v Speaker 1>All these creatures have been adapted to specific temperature ranges

591
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:09.160
<v Speaker 1>and now those ranges are changing, and so they're trying

592
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:12.640
<v Speaker 1>to migrate so that they don't like melt. Their metabolisms

593
00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:16.240
<v Speaker 1>can't necessarily handle all this, So between the acidification and

594
00:31:16.279 --> 00:31:19.039
<v Speaker 1>the warming that are associated with climate change, and then

595
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:22.640
<v Speaker 1>overfishing is a big one. We've taken out about ninety

596
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:25.480
<v Speaker 1>percent of the big fish in the ocean since nineteen fifty.

597
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:30.680
<v Speaker 1>Right now, ninety percent of fish populations around the world

598
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:35.200
<v Speaker 1>are either fished to capacity or overfished. So there's ten

599
00:31:35.240 --> 00:31:39.559
<v Speaker 1>percent that are like not fully exploited. The other ninety

600
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:43.440
<v Speaker 1>percent are fully exploited or over exploited, so there's not

601
00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:48.519
<v Speaker 1>like a lot of room left to take more. And

602
00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:52.559
<v Speaker 1>we've also been fishing further from shore into deeper waters

603
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:55.759
<v Speaker 1>using like more and more high tech tools, all the

604
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:59.039
<v Speaker 1>radar and sonar and helicopters, and these things that were

605
00:31:59.079 --> 00:32:01.400
<v Speaker 1>developed to fight war are being used to find the

606
00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:04.680
<v Speaker 1>last fish. So we have these really high tech boats

607
00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:07.000
<v Speaker 1>and high tech equipment that we have to use because

608
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:11.279
<v Speaker 1>the fish should become so rare and so. And then

609
00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:15.240
<v Speaker 1>with coastal development, we're destroying the habitatsal on the coast,

610
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:19.200
<v Speaker 1>whether that's mangroves or wetlands or whatever that is. And

611
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:21.519
<v Speaker 1>those are the nursery habitats for the sea, and those

612
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:24.440
<v Speaker 1>are the NAFTA filtration systems from land to sea.

613
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:26.720
<v Speaker 2>As long as we're in the sad half, let's get

614
00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:30.279
<v Speaker 2>some straight talk about shrimp, one of my favorite foods,

615
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:34.359
<v Speaker 2>which I also always assumed was relatively sustainable because they

616
00:32:34.359 --> 00:32:38.559
<v Speaker 2>are like the ocean's cockroaches. They're small, they're gross, they're plentiful.

617
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:42.279
<v Speaker 1>Right, Ninety nine percent of shrimp is horrifically unsustainable.

618
00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:42.960
<v Speaker 3>Really.

619
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:43.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

620
00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:46.359
<v Speaker 1>It's either caught with like a net the size of

621
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:49.680
<v Speaker 1>a football field in industrial fishing. That's like dragged along

622
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:53.200
<v Speaker 1>the seafloor, taking up everything up, and a large portion

623
00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:55.039
<v Speaker 1>of what's caught, like up to half or so of

624
00:32:55.079 --> 00:32:57.759
<v Speaker 1>what's caught, might be thrown back dead and wasted. Oh

625
00:32:57.799 --> 00:33:02.279
<v Speaker 1>I catch, So that's no good, and that proportion can

626
00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:05.519
<v Speaker 1>actually be even worse, and it, you know, bulldozes the

627
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:07.599
<v Speaker 1>habitat while that's happening as well.

628
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that's terrible. What about farmed fish, is there such

629
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:10.319
<v Speaker 2>an arm.

630
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:15.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so farm shrimp is often farmed by bulldozing mangroves

631
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:18.960
<v Speaker 1>along the coast to make these ponds for them. And

632
00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:21.759
<v Speaker 1>the mangroves are the nursery habitat for all the fish

633
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:25.000
<v Speaker 1>on the reef. They filter pollution running off from shore.

634
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:28.799
<v Speaker 1>They and they protect places from storms like in the

635
00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:34.519
<v Speaker 1>tsunami in Indonesia ten years ago now more. Yeah, the

636
00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:38.119
<v Speaker 1>places that had intact mangroves fared a lot better because

637
00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:42.240
<v Speaker 1>that buffers the waves. And so when we bulldoze that ecosystem,

638
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:45.000
<v Speaker 1>that's the protection, it's the nursery habitat. It's all these

639
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:51.079
<v Speaker 1>functions that we're losing. And then we just pollute it

640
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:55.599
<v Speaker 1>with shrimp growing in high density and feed them all

641
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:58.279
<v Speaker 1>this stuff and antibiotics as we're growing them in such

642
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:02.759
<v Speaker 1>close quarters that they're all getting sick. So's it's not

643
00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:04.880
<v Speaker 1>really a great way to do it either. And then

644
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:07.440
<v Speaker 1>there's been some exposees in the last few years that

645
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:11.159
<v Speaker 1>a lot of shrimp grown in Southeast Asia is probably

646
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:12.239
<v Speaker 1>peeled by slaves.

647
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:13.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

648
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:16.000
<v Speaker 1>So whether you care about like the human rights angle

649
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:19.639
<v Speaker 1>or the sustainability angle, I'd stay away from shrimp.

650
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:23.400
<v Speaker 2>So ask your fish sellers where the shrimp comes from.

651
00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Ayana says there are domestic shrimp farms in Florida and Oregon.

652
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:31.079
<v Speaker 2>They're doing a really good job bringing less guilt laden

653
00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:33.639
<v Speaker 2>shrimp to market. But it'll cost a little more for

654
00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:34.639
<v Speaker 2>obvious reasons.

655
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:37.280
<v Speaker 1>But if you're not paying like twenty dollars a pound

656
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.440
<v Speaker 1>for shrimp, it's not good for the planet or for people. God.

657
00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:44.440
<v Speaker 1>And it's all like laden with these antibiotics and chemicals

658
00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:46.880
<v Speaker 1>from the processing, so it's not healthy for you either.

659
00:34:47.079 --> 00:34:47.639
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

660
00:34:48.039 --> 00:34:50.639
<v Speaker 1>So the fact that it's the most popular seafood in

661
00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:53.760
<v Speaker 1>America and like people don't know their day it's all

662
00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:59.079
<v Speaker 1>these like buffets. It's probably in my calling I'm a monster.

663
00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:02.280
<v Speaker 1>He yeah, Well that's the thing, Like people don't know

664
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:02.800
<v Speaker 1>about it.

665
00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:05.360
<v Speaker 2>I thought they were like you'd figure like, oh, they're

666
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:08.159
<v Speaker 2>lower maybe on the food chain, and they're kind of buggy,

667
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:11.159
<v Speaker 2>they're a little bit insect like maybe they're maybe it's fine.

668
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:12.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Oh my god.

669
00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:12.719
<v Speaker 3>I have known.

670
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:15.639
<v Speaker 1>I think the challenge is that this is another one

671
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:19.320
<v Speaker 1>of those moments when I realized had a realization about

672
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:24.599
<v Speaker 1>ocean conservation, is that traditions don't necessarily scale. Like the

673
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:27.159
<v Speaker 1>things that humans could eat and the ways we could

674
00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:29.800
<v Speaker 1>fish and use the ocean when there were you know,

675
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:33.920
<v Speaker 1>one billion people on the planet or less. It's just

676
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:35.960
<v Speaker 1>very different what we can get away with As we're

677
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:39.920
<v Speaker 1>approaching eight we just can't do things in the same way.

678
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:43.920
<v Speaker 1>And that's a really hard conversation to have with communities

679
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:47.480
<v Speaker 1>that have these strong traditions tied to the sea, but

680
00:35:47.559 --> 00:35:50.280
<v Speaker 1>whose populations are growing and are being impacted by what's

681
00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:54.880
<v Speaker 1>happening in other places because the ocean is all connected. So, yeah,

682
00:35:55.079 --> 00:35:57.199
<v Speaker 1>we're at this moment where we just need to rethink

683
00:35:57.599 --> 00:35:59.840
<v Speaker 1>our relationship with the ocean. And that doesn't mean we

684
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:02.880
<v Speaker 1>can can't still enjoy it, and there is such thing

685
00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:05.800
<v Speaker 1>as sustainable seafood, but we just need to be more

686
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:09.599
<v Speaker 1>careful and change our expectations for what we're how we're

687
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:12.400
<v Speaker 1>going to be able to use it, and be ready

688
00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:15.159
<v Speaker 1>to make some adaptations.

689
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:17.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm just thinking about cruise ship Shrimpface.

690
00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:20.599
<v Speaker 1>What a horror show. It's a house of horse.

691
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:24.039
<v Speaker 2>Listen, I warned you that this episode would be more

692
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:26.480
<v Speaker 2>on the tragic side, So let's just dive deeper.

693
00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:33.280
<v Speaker 1>So between coastal development and overfishing and climate impacts and

694
00:36:33.320 --> 00:36:37.639
<v Speaker 1>then just like straight up pollution. Yeah, everybody knows at

695
00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:39.760
<v Speaker 1>this point about plastic pollution in the ocean, but there's

696
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:42.679
<v Speaker 1>also a lot of pollution that comes from the runoff

697
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:45.480
<v Speaker 1>of all the pesticides and herbicides we put on to

698
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:48.159
<v Speaker 1>our farms. When it rains runs into rivers, and that

699
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:51.400
<v Speaker 1>runs into the sea. So even if you're inland, there's

700
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:55.199
<v Speaker 1>still that connection. So yeah, we've done a really good

701
00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:58.800
<v Speaker 1>job of thoroughly screwing up the ocean. But there are

702
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:03.400
<v Speaker 1>a lot of reasons to not give up. Because I'm

703
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:06.440
<v Speaker 1>also extremely good at sitting on my couch eating popcorn

704
00:37:06.440 --> 00:37:10.360
<v Speaker 1>and watching trashy television, and so I would like hone

705
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:13.239
<v Speaker 1>that craft if I'm not in the ocean or just

706
00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:17.079
<v Speaker 1>not worth it anymore. And so instead, I'm like seasons

707
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:19.559
<v Speaker 1>behind on everything and really focused on this because I

708
00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:23.159
<v Speaker 1>feel like we have an incredible opportunity to really make

709
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:25.960
<v Speaker 1>a difference. We've seen so many examples of things that

710
00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:30.280
<v Speaker 1>work that when you change the way that fishing happens

711
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:33.119
<v Speaker 1>when you establish a protected area, when you work with

712
00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:36.679
<v Speaker 1>hotels and companies to change the way they manage their waste,

713
00:37:36.679 --> 00:37:40.159
<v Speaker 1>when you work with farmers to explain how things stick

714
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:42.320
<v Speaker 1>to the sea and they change their practices. There are

715
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:44.559
<v Speaker 1>just more and more and more stories about things that

716
00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:48.119
<v Speaker 1>are working, and so it's about replicating what's working and

717
00:37:48.199 --> 00:37:52.639
<v Speaker 1>scaling that work. So definitely don't give up. But I

718
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:55.960
<v Speaker 1>obviously I'm not sugarcoating it either, Like it is bad.

719
00:37:56.840 --> 00:38:01.000
<v Speaker 1>The ocean is different than it was when we were born,

720
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:04.840
<v Speaker 1>and we're not even that old. Wow. So the ocean

721
00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:08.000
<v Speaker 1>that I saw in nineteen eighty five, when I first

722
00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:12.360
<v Speaker 1>saw the ocean is different now and perhaps permanently. So

723
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:14.280
<v Speaker 1>the way that I deal with this sort of like

724
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:17.199
<v Speaker 1>existential crisis of like, oh my god, the planet is dying.

725
00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:19.639
<v Speaker 1>What do I do? Should I just like drink a

726
00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:23.599
<v Speaker 1>bottle of whisky and forget about it? The answer is like, no,

727
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:26.119
<v Speaker 1>I can't be hungover, because there's all this great work

728
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:28.320
<v Speaker 1>to do, and it's a matter it's not a matter

729
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:31.920
<v Speaker 1>of like zero like a totally dead ocean or like

730
00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:34.880
<v Speaker 1>one hundred percent healthy ocean. It's where we're going to

731
00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:37.159
<v Speaker 1>fall in between, because with eight billion people on the planet,

732
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:39.719
<v Speaker 1>we can't go back to like a perfectly pristine ocean,

733
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:42.960
<v Speaker 1>but we can aim for eighty percent or sixty percent

734
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:45.960
<v Speaker 1>or even thirty percent is much better than zero in

735
00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:49.679
<v Speaker 1>our livelihoods, our food security, our health hangs in the balance.

736
00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:52.320
<v Speaker 1>So depending on the day, am either fighting for like

737
00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:55.639
<v Speaker 1>twenty percent or eighty percent, but like, any of it.

738
00:38:55.519 --> 00:39:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Is better than zero and now, okay ocean Cleanupry Steward

739
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:03.920
<v Speaker 2>and Rob Smith both had the same question, does supporting

740
00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:06.239
<v Speaker 2>a group like for Ocean really helping up the ocean

741
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:09.760
<v Speaker 2>of plastics? Like, are any of those methods of getting

742
00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:12.639
<v Speaker 2>things out of the ocean? Are those really going to work?

743
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:14.639
<v Speaker 2>Are those like do we want to believe that they work?

744
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:18.039
<v Speaker 1>We definitely want to believe that they work. Oh my gosh,

745
00:39:18.039 --> 00:39:20.320
<v Speaker 1>do we want to believe that they work? And a

746
00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:22.960
<v Speaker 1>lot of people have been sort of fooled into thinking

747
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:26.119
<v Speaker 1>that that problem is solved, like there's this technology that

748
00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:27.840
<v Speaker 1>we'll just like clean it up and we don't have

749
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:30.039
<v Speaker 1>to worry about it anymore. But that technology is far

750
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:33.039
<v Speaker 1>from being proven, very far from being proven. And if

751
00:39:33.079 --> 00:39:35.800
<v Speaker 1>we think about the challenges of cleaning up something as

752
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:41.480
<v Speaker 1>big as the ocean, which is, you know, seventy two

753
00:39:41.559 --> 00:39:45.239
<v Speaker 1>percent of the planet. That's a tall order, and not

754
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:47.719
<v Speaker 1>to say we shouldn't try, but I think the question

755
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:50.440
<v Speaker 1>is where are we going to devote our resources and energy?

756
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:53.039
<v Speaker 1>And so one when I think about it, I think

757
00:39:53.079 --> 00:39:56.079
<v Speaker 1>about how do we stop the flow of plastic into

758
00:39:56.079 --> 00:39:56.519
<v Speaker 1>the ocean.

759
00:39:56.840 --> 00:39:59.800
<v Speaker 2>This is a good point and gird your hearts for

760
00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:01.960
<v Speaker 2>another horrifying statistic.

761
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:05.360
<v Speaker 1>Because the cleanups don't matter if we're still dumping one

762
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:08.880
<v Speaker 1>ton of plastic into the ocean every four seconds. What

763
00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:11.639
<v Speaker 1>I worked with the group Lonely, Well, I've been working

764
00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:13.760
<v Speaker 1>with them on making these calculations how much are we

765
00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:16.679
<v Speaker 1>actually putting in, where is it coming from, what types

766
00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:19.519
<v Speaker 1>of sources is it? And that's the number that we

767
00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:22.960
<v Speaker 1>came up with. One ton of plastic is entering the

768
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:25.960
<v Speaker 1>ocean every four seconds globally, And so when we think

769
00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:28.320
<v Speaker 1>about that, I've spent my time thinking about how to

770
00:40:28.360 --> 00:40:32.320
<v Speaker 1>prevent every second of plastic entering the ocean.

771
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:35.960
<v Speaker 2>So quick history, how long has plastic been around? So

772
00:40:36.159 --> 00:40:40.519
<v Speaker 2>technically since eighteen fifty six, but it wasn't until World

773
00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:44.639
<v Speaker 2>War Two that mass production started. Now around nineteen fifty four,

774
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:50.039
<v Speaker 2>du Pont and Dow Chemical invented and licensed expanded polystyrene,

775
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:53.880
<v Speaker 2>which is used in packaging and bottles, although there's a

776
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:56.280
<v Speaker 2>bunch of different types of plastic. So yeah, in the

777
00:40:56.360 --> 00:41:01.840
<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixties we saw an explosion of plastics in commercial uses. Now,

778
00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:06.960
<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixty seven's classic film The Graduate was sadly on

779
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:10.880
<v Speaker 2>point about one piece of career advice. I just want

780
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:16.920
<v Speaker 2>to say one word to deal, just one word, yes, sir,

781
00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:20.960
<v Speaker 2>I am listening. Yes or plastics?

782
00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:23.960
<v Speaker 1>So what can we do not? And I think beach

783
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:26.840
<v Speaker 1>cleanups are great. They raise awareness, they build community. We

784
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:28.920
<v Speaker 1>obviously should pick up what we can. I think the

785
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:31.920
<v Speaker 1>focus should be more on coastal cleanups as opposed to

786
00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:33.880
<v Speaker 1>weigh out in the ocean, because once you get to

787
00:41:33.880 --> 00:41:36.519
<v Speaker 1>weigh out in the ocean, you're dealing with a lot

788
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:40.280
<v Speaker 1>of like interesting physics and oceanography challenges, but also the

789
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:43.039
<v Speaker 1>fact that if you're just scooping everything up, you're scooping

790
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:45.800
<v Speaker 1>up the marine life as well. So there's a lot

791
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:48.880
<v Speaker 1>of opportunity to just clean up along the coast, but

792
00:41:48.920 --> 00:41:52.239
<v Speaker 1>then to really force corporations and governments to do their part.

793
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:54.679
<v Speaker 1>This shouldn't be about you and me going up and

794
00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:57.320
<v Speaker 1>picking up straws and bottles from the coast. It should

795
00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:00.519
<v Speaker 1>be about us refusing to use them. But it should

796
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:03.360
<v Speaker 1>should really be like corporations changing the way they are

797
00:42:03.400 --> 00:42:09.239
<v Speaker 1>manufacturing things, and governments improving their recycling capacity and demanding

798
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:13.960
<v Speaker 1>that companies produce only recyclable things. So much of the

799
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:16.679
<v Speaker 1>plastic that's produced is not even recyclable. Oh, I didn't

800
00:42:16.679 --> 00:42:16.960
<v Speaker 1>know that.

801
00:42:17.559 --> 00:42:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Just checked out a nat GEO article from last year

802
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:23.880
<v Speaker 2>that said ninety one percent of the world's plastic isn't recycled,

803
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:27.519
<v Speaker 2>and I audibly whimpered in a public coffee shop. So

804
00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:30.480
<v Speaker 2>you know how plastics usually have a triangle with a

805
00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:32.800
<v Speaker 2>number in the middle on the bottom. Not all of

806
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:37.239
<v Speaker 2>those will be reincarnated into other objects. One and two

807
00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:41.840
<v Speaker 2>usually can, four and five are maybe and three, six

808
00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:45.880
<v Speaker 2>and seven are usually not accepted by recycling programs. So

809
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:49.320
<v Speaker 2>read up on the hot goss between the numbers. Because

810
00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:53.239
<v Speaker 2>some types of plastics even contain fun chemicals like BPAs

811
00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:56.360
<v Speaker 2>that have shown to contribute to infertility. Did I warn

812
00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:58.280
<v Speaker 2>you that this podcast be a bummer, because I know

813
00:42:58.360 --> 00:42:59.719
<v Speaker 2>I did. Welcome to Hell.

814
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:00.280
<v Speaker 1>Now.

815
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:03.519
<v Speaker 2>Luckily, people like Ayana are out there working on better

816
00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:07.159
<v Speaker 2>public policy. She's like the Amal Cloney of the sea. Also,

817
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:09.880
<v Speaker 2>some folks in the other room while we were recording this,

818
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:12.000
<v Speaker 2>we're having kind of a spirited discussion. So if you

819
00:43:12.039 --> 00:43:14.639
<v Speaker 2>hear their chatter, just pretend we're having a fun time

820
00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:17.159
<v Speaker 2>at a cocktail party chatting about preventing environmental doo.

821
00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:20.119
<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of room for improvement there, but we're

822
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:23.719
<v Speaker 1>seeing I think we're actually seeing some really positive signs

823
00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:27.119
<v Speaker 1>in that direction. The UN has been organizing something called

824
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:30.039
<v Speaker 1>the Clean Seas Initiative, and they have gotten i think

825
00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:34.480
<v Speaker 1>three dozen countries to sign on and make commitments to

826
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:39.320
<v Speaker 1>reducing ocean plastic pollution. So we're starting to see commitments

827
00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:42.800
<v Speaker 1>at not just at the individual level. I will give

828
00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:45.280
<v Speaker 1>up bags and straws and carry my own water bottle,

829
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:47.440
<v Speaker 1>and these are all great things to do. I do them.

830
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:51.000
<v Speaker 1>But what really inspires me is Kenya and Rwanda banning

831
00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:55.039
<v Speaker 1>plastic bags, Costa Rica pledging to go completely without single

832
00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:58.440
<v Speaker 1>use plastics by twenty twenty. The EU is starting to

833
00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:01.239
<v Speaker 1>make some big policies, and so all around the world

834
00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:04.360
<v Speaker 1>we're starting to see these shifts. I think Chile just

835
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:06.639
<v Speaker 1>ban plastic bags as well, so Yeah, there's a lot

836
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:09.719
<v Speaker 1>of good stuff happening there. We're starting to see a

837
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:12.119
<v Speaker 1>lot of momentum there, and I think that's great because

838
00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:16.119
<v Speaker 1>it's also an opening to talk about ocean problems more generally.

839
00:44:16.360 --> 00:44:18.480
<v Speaker 1>Great now that you care about, you know, a straw

840
00:44:18.519 --> 00:44:22.039
<v Speaker 1>and a turtle's nose, like, let's talk about let's talk

841
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:24.199
<v Speaker 1>about what else is happening to those turtles. Let's talk

842
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:27.159
<v Speaker 1>about overfishing and poaching and the state of the habitats

843
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:28.239
<v Speaker 1>that they are trying to live in.

844
00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:31.320
<v Speaker 2>Right, So what you're saying is the tide is changing,

845
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:35.480
<v Speaker 2>the tide is turning. Of course, I got this question

846
00:44:35.960 --> 00:44:37.440
<v Speaker 2>and I'll just touch on it just in case there's

847
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:40.960
<v Speaker 2>anything that you didn't just answering that. But Maria Kumro,

848
00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:45.280
<v Speaker 2>Jen Borlick, and Sarah Millington all wanted to know how

849
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:50.679
<v Speaker 2>much positive impact on marine plastic debris will the plastic

850
00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:52.719
<v Speaker 2>straw band really have? They all kind of want to know,

851
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:56.199
<v Speaker 2>like what's your thought on like plastic straws are the problem?

852
00:44:56.639 --> 00:45:00.639
<v Speaker 1>Like they are, But essentially the plastics straws are a

853
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:04.119
<v Speaker 1>really big problem because they cannot be recycled. They're like

854
00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:07.880
<v Speaker 1>too small for municipal recycling to deal with, Okay, So

855
00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:10.480
<v Speaker 1>that's one of the reasons they're a particular problem. There's

856
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:12.719
<v Speaker 1>obviously a lot of other problems. We're using a million

857
00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:16.039
<v Speaker 1>plastic bottles every minute, so that's not good.

858
00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Just personal shout out to companies like LK and Hosley

859
00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:23.519
<v Speaker 2>Taylor for making these public water bottle filling stations so

860
00:45:23.559 --> 00:45:26.039
<v Speaker 2>we could stop buying plastic bottles when we're parched and

861
00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:29.480
<v Speaker 2>in public. It's they're so great. Look for the little

862
00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:32.360
<v Speaker 2>bottle silhouette near a water fountain. You can roll up

863
00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:35.800
<v Speaker 2>with your thermos and just filler up boss for zero dollars.

864
00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:36.400
<v Speaker 1>It's great.

865
00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:38.480
<v Speaker 2>And they have these little counters that took off the

866
00:45:38.599 --> 00:45:41.880
<v Speaker 2>number of plastic bottles they've prevented from being on Earth,

867
00:45:42.199 --> 00:45:44.400
<v Speaker 2>and so when your bottle's done filling, the number goes

868
00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:46.239
<v Speaker 2>up one more. It's very fulfilling.

869
00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:49.039
<v Speaker 1>And bags, I think we the average plastic bag is

870
00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:51.360
<v Speaker 1>used for twelve minutes before it's thrown out. So there's

871
00:45:51.440 --> 00:45:54.280
<v Speaker 1>a lot of other issues. But straws are problematic because

872
00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:58.559
<v Speaker 1>they can't be recycled, and they also are one of

873
00:45:58.599 --> 00:46:01.000
<v Speaker 1>the top items that you find in BA cleanups. Are

874
00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:03.679
<v Speaker 1>they so they're like they're they're small, right, so they

875
00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:07.400
<v Speaker 1>kind of like escape garbage cans and like people, they

876
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:10.159
<v Speaker 1>just they end up on the beach a lot, and

877
00:46:10.280 --> 00:46:12.599
<v Speaker 1>so that means they end up in the ocean a lot.

878
00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:14.599
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, they're one of the top five items that

879
00:46:14.679 --> 00:46:17.679
<v Speaker 1>the Ocean Conservancy has been consistently finding when they do

880
00:46:17.800 --> 00:46:22.840
<v Speaker 1>these organize these global international ocean cleanups, and they collect

881
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:25.079
<v Speaker 1>data on you know, what are what is really out there?

882
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:27.679
<v Speaker 1>Like what are the top ten? And plastic straws are

883
00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:31.559
<v Speaker 1>always in the top five and number one. Yeah, and

884
00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:32.760
<v Speaker 1>you guess what number one is?

885
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:35.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, I would say bottles, but I don't know.

886
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:40.519
<v Speaker 1>It's cigarette butts. What the number one beach pollution like

887
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:43.119
<v Speaker 1>by the number of items, not by like the mass

888
00:46:43.119 --> 00:46:46.760
<v Speaker 1>of them. Is cigarette butts. And it's those plastic filters

889
00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:49.239
<v Speaker 1>at the end. And of course that's like all the

890
00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:51.360
<v Speaker 1>chemicals from the cigarette. It's like a lot of them

891
00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:54.079
<v Speaker 1>are trapped in that filter. So they're pretty toxic too,

892
00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:56.639
<v Speaker 1>So don't just throw your cigarette butts in the sand.

893
00:46:56.920 --> 00:47:02.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, they're like plastic cancer Tampa. That's the worst.

894
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:03.440
<v Speaker 1>It's pretty bad.

895
00:47:03.679 --> 00:47:05.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it is funny that culturally, it's like, oh,

896
00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:07.800
<v Speaker 2>I never drop a wrapper on the ground. But people

897
00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:10.599
<v Speaker 2>like I just like a cigarette butt. Where do they

898
00:47:10.599 --> 00:47:13.280
<v Speaker 2>think that goes? Like raccoons are eating them? No, nobody

899
00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:15.960
<v Speaker 2>wants those. That's really illuminating. I had no idea, and

900
00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:18.679
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't sure if like plastic straws were like being

901
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:21.039
<v Speaker 2>a scapegoat for or if they were, But that's good

902
00:47:21.079 --> 00:47:21.280
<v Speaker 2>to know.

903
00:47:21.400 --> 00:47:24.719
<v Speaker 1>I think they also are not necessarily escape books scapegoat,

904
00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:30.239
<v Speaker 1>but symbolic, right because for most people they're completely unnecessary,

905
00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:35.039
<v Speaker 1>like reapply your lipstick because that's your issue, or like

906
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:39.159
<v Speaker 1>whatever it is. I think there's a really important exception

907
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:41.960
<v Speaker 1>that needs to be made for the disability community. There

908
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:44.880
<v Speaker 1>are people who need to use straws, and that's fine,

909
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:47.719
<v Speaker 1>because that would be a scapegoat if we're saying, like

910
00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:51.960
<v Speaker 1>there are a few people who really need them because

911
00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:55.480
<v Speaker 1>that's how they drink, that's fine, But I think so

912
00:47:55.559 --> 00:47:59.400
<v Speaker 1>there's no need. Absolutely we should avoid making these blanket

913
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:03.480
<v Speaker 1>statements that are problematic for folks who need them, but

914
00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:06.639
<v Speaker 1>most of us really really really don't need them. And

915
00:48:06.679 --> 00:48:09.639
<v Speaker 1>the way that drinks are made, they just like come

916
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:12.519
<v Speaker 1>with straws in them, So I think even just the

917
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:17.440
<v Speaker 1>flip from straws automatically to straws only on request would

918
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:18.760
<v Speaker 1>make a really big difference.

919
00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:21.000
<v Speaker 2>What about those lids that are like, no worry, you

920
00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:22.719
<v Speaker 2>don't need a straw, but they're more plastic.

921
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:23.760
<v Speaker 1>I think that's ridiculous.

922
00:48:23.800 --> 00:48:24.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's I thought.

923
00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:28.159
<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is probably like an uncouth opinion, but

924
00:48:28.199 --> 00:48:30.920
<v Speaker 1>I thought that Starbucks like really punted on that one.

925
00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:35.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's already like, you know, adult sippy cups

926
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:37.719
<v Speaker 1>is like their whole thing, and I just just like

927
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:38.920
<v Speaker 1>doubled down on it.

928
00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:41.719
<v Speaker 2>I saw that I saw someone drinking out of that,

929
00:48:41.719 --> 00:48:43.559
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, what is that like host of straw?

930
00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:46.079
<v Speaker 2>And then I read something later that day that was like.

931
00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:49.119
<v Speaker 1>This plastic I was like, God, damn silly. Although the

932
00:48:49.239 --> 00:48:52.079
<v Speaker 1>alternative which I do when I have like an urgent

933
00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:55.280
<v Speaker 1>need for an iced coffee and they try, I always

934
00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:58.159
<v Speaker 1>order it in a paper cup, oh, without a lid.

935
00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:01.480
<v Speaker 1>Good to know. So that's in my hack for that

936
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:04.320
<v Speaker 1>because obviously, like ice coffee is delicious, and I sometimes

937
00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:06.840
<v Speaker 1>do get enough sleep, so I get it. I just

938
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:09.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, there are ways to work around this or

939
00:49:09.159 --> 00:49:12.280
<v Speaker 1>I think a really big other opportunity for that anyone

940
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:16.280
<v Speaker 1>can do, and that it shouldn't be just about individual responsibility,

941
00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:19.599
<v Speaker 1>but like restaurants and cafes should do is ask you

942
00:49:19.719 --> 00:49:21.679
<v Speaker 1>do you want it for here? Or to go? Because

943
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:23.440
<v Speaker 1>if you go into a cafe and you look around,

944
00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:26.280
<v Speaker 1>everyone's using like to go containers and they're all sitting there,

945
00:49:26.360 --> 00:49:29.280
<v Speaker 1>and it drives me bonkers, I know, and I think

946
00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:31.679
<v Speaker 1>it's like no one wants to wash the dishes, or

947
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:36.280
<v Speaker 1>they haven't actually built these cafes with enough dishwashers or whatever.

948
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:39.079
<v Speaker 1>So I think there's a shift that needs to happen

949
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:41.599
<v Speaker 1>there and just ask me do you want it for here?

950
00:49:41.719 --> 00:49:42.320
<v Speaker 1>To go? Yeah?

951
00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:44.280
<v Speaker 2>I drank a cup of tea in a cafe before

952
00:49:44.320 --> 00:49:46.119
<v Speaker 2>this that was given to me in a paper cup,

953
00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:48.760
<v Speaker 2>no lid, thank god, but still and I got it

954
00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:50.239
<v Speaker 2>and I had it in my hand and I was like,

955
00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:54.440
<v Speaker 2>oh no, yeah, oh I don't need this jerk. Okay,

956
00:49:54.519 --> 00:49:58.519
<v Speaker 2>question about the garbage patch. Let's talk about the garbage patch.

957
00:49:58.840 --> 00:50:03.039
<v Speaker 2>Blair Nelson an Eva both ask like, what's going on

958
00:50:03.280 --> 00:50:06.239
<v Speaker 2>with the Great Pacific garbage Patch, which honestly sounds like

959
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:08.239
<v Speaker 2>it sounds like not even a real thing. I mean,

960
00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:10.159
<v Speaker 2>I know it's very real, but it's just like so

961
00:50:10.360 --> 00:50:15.119
<v Speaker 2>fancifully horribly named, and then what should we do about it?

962
00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:17.519
<v Speaker 2>And like what are we and what's happening with like

963
00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:20.679
<v Speaker 2>microbeads and tiny, tiny particulate plastic.

964
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:25.280
<v Speaker 1>So for the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, that's a thing.

965
00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:27.000
<v Speaker 2>There's actually.

966
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:30.719
<v Speaker 1>So the reason that it exists is because of ocean

967
00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:33.960
<v Speaker 1>currents that sort of swirl around in these gyres and

968
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:35.199
<v Speaker 1>then collect things.

969
00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:38.719
<v Speaker 2>So a gyre is like a spiral or a whirl.

970
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:41.159
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of like a cow lick of the ocean.

971
00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:46.880
<v Speaker 1>And so since there's plastic that gets concentrated into this patch,

972
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:50.000
<v Speaker 1>most of the plastic in that patch is really small,

973
00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:52.800
<v Speaker 1>so it's like the size of your pinky fingernail. It's

974
00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:55.320
<v Speaker 1>not like a bunch of bottles floating on the surface.

975
00:50:55.840 --> 00:50:58.199
<v Speaker 1>It's not actually like an island you could walk across.

976
00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:00.280
<v Speaker 1>And so I think the initial reporting on that was

977
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:02.400
<v Speaker 1>great because it got people to care about it, but

978
00:51:02.440 --> 00:51:06.079
<v Speaker 1>it also created sort of a false image in our

979
00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:08.119
<v Speaker 1>heads of what it looks like. It's just it's a

980
00:51:08.199 --> 00:51:10.880
<v Speaker 1>higher concentration of plastic in that part of the ocean.

981
00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:15.480
<v Speaker 1>So it's actually like a little bit, which makes it

982
00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:18.119
<v Speaker 1>a lot harder to clean up, right, because it is

983
00:51:18.239 --> 00:51:19.079
<v Speaker 1>quite diffuse.

984
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:22.360
<v Speaker 2>I watch some videos and the plastics hauled from the

985
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:27.440
<v Speaker 2>ocean's range from like mountains of soggy fishing nets to tiny,

986
00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:31.360
<v Speaker 2>tiny flecks of broken down bottles and toys. And the

987
00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:34.480
<v Speaker 2>Great Pacific garbage Patch is estimated to be between the

988
00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:38.960
<v Speaker 2>size of Texas to the size of Russia, somewhere between there. Now,

989
00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:42.039
<v Speaker 2>it may be the largest on the planet, but it's

990
00:51:42.079 --> 00:51:44.960
<v Speaker 2>not alone. It has other garbage patch friends.

991
00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:50.280
<v Speaker 1>And there's one of these garbage patches in every ocean gyre.

992
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:53.079
<v Speaker 1>So there are five major ocean gyres, and there's a

993
00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:58.000
<v Speaker 1>garbage concentration, our garbage patch in every single one. So

994
00:51:58.159 --> 00:52:00.400
<v Speaker 1>what we can do about it is lobby for changes

995
00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:05.159
<v Speaker 1>in corporate and government practices regarding plastic to prevent this

996
00:52:06.199 --> 00:52:09.440
<v Speaker 1>one ton of plastic entering the ocean every four seconds.

997
00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:12.639
<v Speaker 1>We can obviously change our individual behavior, and we can

998
00:52:12.679 --> 00:52:16.159
<v Speaker 1>support conferservation groups that are doing really practical things to

999
00:52:16.280 --> 00:52:20.760
<v Speaker 1>turn that around. So one of the there's a few

1000
00:52:20.760 --> 00:52:25.320
<v Speaker 1>groups that I think are really exciting. There's Lonely Well

1001
00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:27.760
<v Speaker 1>is doing really good work on the corporate level, gathering

1002
00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:31.280
<v Speaker 1>together partners for that to push there and working with

1003
00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:34.840
<v Speaker 1>the UN. The Ocean Conservancy started something called the Trash

1004
00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:38.440
<v Speaker 1>Free Seas Alliance that's also working with corporations and governments

1005
00:52:38.519 --> 00:52:43.519
<v Speaker 1>to shift policy, and the Status Quo surf Rider, which

1006
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:47.440
<v Speaker 1>is an organization that's focused on the surfing community and

1007
00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:51.320
<v Speaker 1>activating people who love the ocean to help protect it.

1008
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:56.000
<v Speaker 1>They have been really active in campaigns against single use plastic.

1009
00:52:56.360 --> 00:52:58.480
<v Speaker 1>I think that's the term that we need to think

1010
00:52:58.519 --> 00:53:01.760
<v Speaker 1>about as like single use. There are certainly some like

1011
00:53:01.880 --> 00:53:05.599
<v Speaker 1>medical uses of plastic that I'm happy to have for

1012
00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:09.519
<v Speaker 1>you know, for safety and sanitary reasons, but I think

1013
00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:13.199
<v Speaker 1>just like the disposability of everything all the time in

1014
00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:17.239
<v Speaker 1>our daily lives is problematic and actually creates this mindset

1015
00:53:18.119 --> 00:53:20.159
<v Speaker 1>of like oh, I'll just get a new one or

1016
00:53:20.199 --> 00:53:22.960
<v Speaker 1>I'll just whatever, and it's like feeding this which is

1017
00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:28.760
<v Speaker 1>really unsustainable, consumerist, disposable mindset that I think is not

1018
00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:32.519
<v Speaker 1>super great, not good. There's a lot of things we

1019
00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:34.840
<v Speaker 1>can do about it, so support groups like that, and

1020
00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:37.559
<v Speaker 1>there's also a lot of there's like cool low tech

1021
00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:40.360
<v Speaker 1>solutions that are out there, and my favorite one is

1022
00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:45.079
<v Speaker 1>called mister trash Wheel, which is basically like you know

1023
00:53:45.199 --> 00:53:48.119
<v Speaker 1>those old fashioned like steamboats that had like a big

1024
00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:51.320
<v Speaker 1>water wheel at the back it's basically like this huge

1025
00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:53.719
<v Speaker 1>water wheel, and then behind it is a dumpster.

1026
00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:57.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh so, I just checked out a video of mister

1027
00:53:57.400 --> 00:54:00.480
<v Speaker 2>trash wheel, and it's the happiest I've been during the

1028
00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:03.559
<v Speaker 2>entire making of this episode. I was not prepared for

1029
00:54:03.639 --> 00:54:07.400
<v Speaker 2>how cute this garbage gobbling machine is. So picture a

1030
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:10.719
<v Speaker 2>water wheel on one side, and then a domed canopy

1031
00:54:10.760 --> 00:54:13.320
<v Speaker 2>that looks kind of like a covered wagon, but with

1032
00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:17.360
<v Speaker 2>one end a big mouth fed by a conveyor belt

1033
00:54:17.519 --> 00:54:22.880
<v Speaker 2>of trash. Atop this whole structure, two huge googly eyes,

1034
00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:26.639
<v Speaker 2>giving this giant trash apparatus the look of this hungry,

1035
00:54:27.159 --> 00:54:31.039
<v Speaker 2>floating earth saving cartoon. I want to hug it, even

1036
00:54:31.079 --> 00:54:32.960
<v Speaker 2>though it's the size of like a motor home and

1037
00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:36.159
<v Speaker 2>also probably very smelly and would eat me and throw

1038
00:54:36.159 --> 00:54:38.159
<v Speaker 2>me in a dumpster, but with good intentions.

1039
00:54:38.360 --> 00:54:40.760
<v Speaker 1>And so you put this water wheel in a harbor

1040
00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:43.719
<v Speaker 1>or a river, and as pollution runs down the river,

1041
00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:46.880
<v Speaker 1>it gets sort of funneled towards this water wheel. And

1042
00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:50.199
<v Speaker 1>then as this wheel spins, it picks up bottles or

1043
00:54:50.239 --> 00:54:53.440
<v Speaker 1>tires or whatever floating down and just like deposits it

1044
00:54:53.519 --> 00:54:55.800
<v Speaker 1>as it turns in the dumpster behind it. And then

1045
00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:57.679
<v Speaker 1>you take away the dumpster and like dispose of it

1046
00:54:57.719 --> 00:55:01.360
<v Speaker 1>properly in the dump and so you're preventing all this

1047
00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:04.159
<v Speaker 1>stuff from ever even getting to the sea. So this

1048
00:55:04.239 --> 00:55:07.119
<v Speaker 1>is in Baltimore. There's mister trash Wheel and then there's

1049
00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:10.119
<v Speaker 1>Professor trash Wheel. So there's two. And they did like

1050
00:55:10.199 --> 00:55:13.440
<v Speaker 1>a big social media reviewer where they revealed that Professor

1051
00:55:13.480 --> 00:55:19.760
<v Speaker 1>Trasheel was a woman, which I was obviously amused. But

1052
00:55:20.280 --> 00:55:22.719
<v Speaker 1>so stuff like that I think is really promising. And

1053
00:55:22.760 --> 00:55:25.079
<v Speaker 1>so instead of thinking about like cleaning up the middle

1054
00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:26.760
<v Speaker 1>of the ocean, there's so much that we can be

1055
00:55:26.800 --> 00:55:28.960
<v Speaker 1>doing closer to land and should be doing.

1056
00:55:29.199 --> 00:55:31.159
<v Speaker 2>It's amazing that you're like, oh, wait, we didn't have

1057
00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:32.800
<v Speaker 2>something to prevent that from going out.

1058
00:55:32.639 --> 00:55:35.880
<v Speaker 1>There exist whole time. Yeah, exactly do we? Yeah?

1059
00:55:36.039 --> 00:55:38.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. Iolanthe wants to know how can we

1060
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:39.840
<v Speaker 2>save the Great Barrier reef?

1061
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:42.840
<v Speaker 1>We could stop climate change? That would you like the thing?

1062
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:43.320
<v Speaker 2>Cool?

1063
00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:44.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

1064
00:55:44.199 --> 00:55:46.119
<v Speaker 2>What about sunscreens? I hear that's a factor.

1065
00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:50.079
<v Speaker 1>It is a factor. And Hawaii just banned these sunscreens

1066
00:55:50.079 --> 00:55:52.920
<v Speaker 1>with these chemicals that are harmful to corals. I can't

1067
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:56.280
<v Speaker 1>remember the name of like oxy spend Spend They also

1068
00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:57.320
<v Speaker 1>grew up your hormones.

1069
00:55:58.239 --> 00:56:00.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's fun, So it's worth it to do a

1070
00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:04.280
<v Speaker 2>little more reading on chemicals like oxybenzone, which can lower

1071
00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:08.119
<v Speaker 2>testosterone in adolescent boys. It can leach into mother's breast

1072
00:56:08.199 --> 00:56:13.239
<v Speaker 2>milk and cause endercrine disruption among humans. So even if

1073
00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:15.800
<v Speaker 2>you have a personal beef against coral reefs and you

1074
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:17.719
<v Speaker 2>don't care if they die, you might want to switch

1075
00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:20.599
<v Speaker 2>to mineral sunscreens just for the sake of your own gonats.

1076
00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:24.800
<v Speaker 1>Basically we should only be using mineral sunscreens like with

1077
00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:28.119
<v Speaker 1>zinc and like that make you look weird and pasty,

1078
00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:31.360
<v Speaker 1>like that's the one you want, or just what I

1079
00:56:31.400 --> 00:56:33.239
<v Speaker 1>do is like I just wear long sleeves are sitting

1080
00:56:33.199 --> 00:56:35.199
<v Speaker 1>in the shade when I've had too much sun. Also

1081
00:56:35.239 --> 00:56:36.039
<v Speaker 1>super effective.

1082
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:39.320
<v Speaker 2>The mineral ones are great for summer goths.

1083
00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:44.519
<v Speaker 1>It's a great way to do that, one hundred percent. Yeah,

1084
00:56:44.519 --> 00:56:47.400
<v Speaker 1>So I think it's great that Hawaii is leading the

1085
00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:50.159
<v Speaker 1>way on that. So that makes a difference. I mean

1086
00:56:50.239 --> 00:56:52.639
<v Speaker 1>fishermen that I've talked to in the Caribbeans, when then

1087
00:56:52.719 --> 00:56:55.400
<v Speaker 1>cruise ships come in and all the tourists like slather

1088
00:56:55.519 --> 00:56:57.400
<v Speaker 1>on all the sunscreen and then jump in the ocean

1089
00:56:57.400 --> 00:57:00.920
<v Speaker 1>and go snorkeling. It looks like this oil slick of

1090
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:03.639
<v Speaker 1>like shiny iridescent stuff on the surface, and they're like,

1091
00:57:03.719 --> 00:57:05.920
<v Speaker 1>obviously this is bad for the fish and the corals.

1092
00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:07.800
<v Speaker 1>So it's a problem in places where there are high

1093
00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:12.599
<v Speaker 1>densities of people more so. But there's tons of great

1094
00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:15.639
<v Speaker 1>options of mineral sunscreen, so just look for things with

1095
00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:16.360
<v Speaker 1>zinc in them.

1096
00:57:16.519 --> 00:57:20.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, And my question here, what's going to bone the

1097
00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:25.119
<v Speaker 2>ocean more? Is it going to be the acidification, the plastics,

1098
00:57:25.239 --> 00:57:27.239
<v Speaker 2>or the rising temperatures.

1099
00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:32.519
<v Speaker 1>I can kind of cheat and just say climate change

1100
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:36.480
<v Speaker 1>because the acidification and the warm rising temperatures are both

1101
00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:41.199
<v Speaker 1>effects of climate change as a sea level rise, which

1102
00:57:41.239 --> 00:57:44.199
<v Speaker 1>is doing some crazy stuff to coastal ecosystems too, so

1103
00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:48.159
<v Speaker 1>not to mention to our homes and our infrastructure. So yeah,

1104
00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:51.280
<v Speaker 1>I think climate change is the number one. Plastic is

1105
00:57:51.320 --> 00:57:53.360
<v Speaker 1>pretty insidious, and the rate at which we're just like

1106
00:57:53.440 --> 00:57:56.440
<v Speaker 1>taking things out of the ocean, the overfishing is pretty wild.

1107
00:57:56.519 --> 00:58:01.719
<v Speaker 1>But the ocean can is incredibly resilient, so it will

1108
00:58:01.719 --> 00:58:04.719
<v Speaker 1>be fine without us. Like if we really screw this

1109
00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:07.480
<v Speaker 1>up and kill the ocean, which means we're killing the planet,

1110
00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:10.239
<v Speaker 1>which means we're killing ourselves. When humans go extinct, the

1111
00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:12.559
<v Speaker 1>ocean will be fine. It'll be different, but it'll be fine.

1112
00:58:12.639 --> 00:58:17.239
<v Speaker 1>So it's really like our survival that we should be

1113
00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:21.360
<v Speaker 1>worried about, right, And so for those who need a

1114
00:58:21.400 --> 00:58:25.679
<v Speaker 1>more self centered motivation, or we should conservation and there

1115
00:58:25.719 --> 00:58:28.039
<v Speaker 1>you go, save the ocean to save yourself.

1116
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:31.320
<v Speaker 2>Paula Herrera asked, were the boys in my middle school

1117
00:58:31.400 --> 00:58:34.079
<v Speaker 2>right how much of the ocean is actually whale sperm?

1118
00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:36.119
<v Speaker 2>I don't think that's quantifiable.

1119
00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:38.440
<v Speaker 1>Correct, That is not a number that I have heard.

1120
00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:42.320
<v Speaker 1>And then although they do have enormous penises.

1121
00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:46.159
<v Speaker 2>Hey, mom, Dad, fast forward like thirty seconds. Okay, okay.

1122
00:58:46.199 --> 00:58:48.400
<v Speaker 2>So writing this in a coffee shop, I made sure

1123
00:58:48.440 --> 00:58:52.440
<v Speaker 2>to angle my screen before hesitantly typing into Google how

1124
00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:56.039
<v Speaker 2>big are whale dicks? And in huge font the answer

1125
00:58:56.079 --> 00:59:00.360
<v Speaker 2>popped up twelve inches. I was like, oh, okay. Then

1126
00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:05.519
<v Speaker 2>I realized that was the diameter. The length is ten feet. Also,

1127
00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:08.719
<v Speaker 2>whales can pee up to two hundred and fifty gallons

1128
00:59:08.760 --> 00:59:12.519
<v Speaker 2>a day, sometimes floating on their backs and just becoming

1129
00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:16.840
<v Speaker 2>tinkling geysers. Ayana delightfully topped that fact with this.

1130
00:59:17.239 --> 00:59:21.159
<v Speaker 1>But barnacles barnacles have the largest penis to body size

1131
00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:23.920
<v Speaker 1>ratio of anything because they have to have sex without moving.

1132
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:27.639
<v Speaker 1>They're like stuck on rocks and they literally have to

1133
00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:31.199
<v Speaker 1>like penis comes out of one barticle like finds another barnacle,

1134
00:59:31.239 --> 00:59:34.599
<v Speaker 1>like knocks on the door. They like open their cell, like,

1135
00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:35.880
<v Speaker 1>let this penis in.

1136
00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:37.920
<v Speaker 2>Can you even imagine, Oh my god, you're in like

1137
00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:40.960
<v Speaker 2>a long distance relationship. Yeah, the only way to get

1138
00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:43.360
<v Speaker 2>a touch is like send your dick over. It's a

1139
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:51.559
<v Speaker 2>good dicagram, basically babies. I'm Christa Avanpado, Jenny Kloda, and

1140
00:59:52.039 --> 00:59:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Anne Sophie Karen all pretty much asked about your job,

1141
00:59:56.159 --> 01:00:01.840
<v Speaker 2>like where would someone begin becoming a marine biolog or

1142
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:04.880
<v Speaker 2>someone who works on like science policy, Like how do

1143
01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:06.119
<v Speaker 2>people become you?

1144
01:00:06.920 --> 01:00:10.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't advise becoming me exactly, but I would love

1145
01:00:10.119 --> 01:00:13.639
<v Speaker 1>for more people to join Teamotion because there's really exciting

1146
01:00:13.639 --> 01:00:15.880
<v Speaker 1>work to do and it's a wonderful community of folks.

1147
01:00:16.039 --> 01:00:19.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if that my personal story is super instructive.

1148
01:00:19.039 --> 01:00:22.039
<v Speaker 1>I think there's a lot of different paths to get

1149
01:00:22.119 --> 01:00:26.320
<v Speaker 1>to this type of work. I took the science path

1150
01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:28.920
<v Speaker 1>towards policy because at the time it seemed like there

1151
01:00:28.920 --> 01:00:32.239
<v Speaker 1>were a lot of lawyers going towards ocean policy, but

1152
01:00:32.320 --> 01:00:34.559
<v Speaker 1>not a lot of scientists sort of meeting them halfway.

1153
01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:37.719
<v Speaker 1>And so that's the direction I took. But you can

1154
01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:41.159
<v Speaker 1>go straight into law and policy, you can do communications.

1155
01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:43.920
<v Speaker 1>We obviously have a lot we can do to better

1156
01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:47.320
<v Speaker 1>tell the story and engage people. There's a lot of

1157
01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:51.320
<v Speaker 1>really amazing art happening around community engagement for oceans, and

1158
01:00:51.320 --> 01:00:54.840
<v Speaker 1>this organization that I mentioned, TBA twenty one and their academy,

1159
01:00:54.920 --> 01:00:58.440
<v Speaker 1>is supporting a lot of really amazing ocean art. Places

1160
01:00:58.480 --> 01:01:01.199
<v Speaker 1>like Pioneer Works where we are now that are integrating

1161
01:01:01.239 --> 01:01:04.719
<v Speaker 1>the science studio with the arts exhibitions here are really

1162
01:01:04.760 --> 01:01:08.960
<v Speaker 1>important to changing the cultural narrative. So I guess I

1163
01:01:08.960 --> 01:01:11.039
<v Speaker 1>would say it depends like what are you passionate about,

1164
01:01:11.039 --> 01:01:13.599
<v Speaker 1>what are you good at if you want to and

1165
01:01:13.639 --> 01:01:15.880
<v Speaker 1>then how can you do that in service of the ocean.

1166
01:01:16.519 --> 01:01:21.719
<v Speaker 1>So whether that's art or science or law or communications writing,

1167
01:01:22.360 --> 01:01:26.039
<v Speaker 1>I think there's an opportunity to rewrite our relationship with

1168
01:01:26.079 --> 01:01:28.119
<v Speaker 1>the ocean. I've done more. I'm doing more and more

1169
01:01:28.119 --> 01:01:30.440
<v Speaker 1>writing now because I feel like there's just not enough

1170
01:01:31.159 --> 01:01:35.440
<v Speaker 1>literature out there about our changing planet and how we

1171
01:01:35.559 --> 01:01:37.559
<v Speaker 1>relate to it, not in like a depressing way, but

1172
01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:39.239
<v Speaker 1>just in a like what does it mean to be

1173
01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:41.239
<v Speaker 1>a human in this day and eight? That was probably

1174
01:01:41.320 --> 01:01:45.079
<v Speaker 1>not super helpful. But there's lots of different like fellowships

1175
01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:49.559
<v Speaker 1>and internships and positions in all these organizations. So an

1176
01:01:49.679 --> 01:01:54.000
<v Speaker 1>organization like the Ocean Conservancy needs you know, it's a

1177
01:01:54.280 --> 01:01:58.039
<v Speaker 1>big NGO or Oceania or World Wildlife Fund or Wildlife

1178
01:01:58.079 --> 01:02:02.519
<v Speaker 1>Conservation Society, they all have the Majior Conservancy Conservation International,

1179
01:02:02.559 --> 01:02:05.960
<v Speaker 1>they have global ocean conservation efforts. And to run an

1180
01:02:06.039 --> 01:02:10.440
<v Speaker 1>organization like that, you need secretaries and janitors too who

1181
01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:13.119
<v Speaker 1>are committed to like keeping that going. You need accountants,

1182
01:02:13.119 --> 01:02:17.199
<v Speaker 1>you need lawyers, you need policy newers, you need science experts,

1183
01:02:17.440 --> 01:02:21.280
<v Speaker 1>you need people running social media. So it's all those things.

1184
01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:24.440
<v Speaker 1>You need caterers, I mean, and boy do we need

1185
01:02:24.559 --> 01:02:30.159
<v Speaker 1>better sustainability in events. So I think there's a million

1186
01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:33.239
<v Speaker 1>ways to get involved and to do it either full

1187
01:02:33.280 --> 01:02:35.880
<v Speaker 1>time or to start like an adjacent business or join

1188
01:02:35.960 --> 01:02:38.599
<v Speaker 1>something that's related to it. So hop on in.

1189
01:02:38.960 --> 01:02:40.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like that's great, find what you're good at and

1190
01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:43.599
<v Speaker 2>then approach it that way. Yeah, that's instead of trying

1191
01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:45.119
<v Speaker 2>to shoehorn yourself into.

1192
01:02:44.920 --> 01:02:46.840
<v Speaker 1>Because not everyone wants to be a marine biologists and

1193
01:02:46.920 --> 01:02:49.159
<v Speaker 1>some people think scuba diving is scary, And that doesn't

1194
01:02:49.199 --> 01:02:50.880
<v Speaker 1>mean you can't be helpful.

1195
01:02:51.199 --> 01:02:54.679
<v Speaker 2>I would be the worst lawyer. Like when I see

1196
01:02:54.760 --> 01:02:56.880
<v Speaker 2>pictures of you, like doing policy and you're in a

1197
01:02:56.920 --> 01:02:58.960
<v Speaker 2>boardroom with like a bunch of people.

1198
01:02:58.840 --> 01:03:01.519
<v Speaker 1>In suits and you all have and that to me

1199
01:03:01.599 --> 01:03:02.519
<v Speaker 1>is scarier.

1200
01:03:02.159 --> 01:03:05.039
<v Speaker 2>Than like being under the ocean in a vast like

1201
01:03:05.159 --> 01:03:06.880
<v Speaker 2>so funny, I guess like that to me, I'm like,

1202
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:09.760
<v Speaker 2>oh God, there's so many terms that you have to know,

1203
01:03:09.840 --> 01:03:11.239
<v Speaker 2>like the fact that you have an.

1204
01:03:11.119 --> 01:03:13.519
<v Speaker 1>Ad foreglanguages I might be learned.

1205
01:03:14.360 --> 01:03:16.679
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, you know, And I think you've touched on

1206
01:03:16.719 --> 01:03:21.159
<v Speaker 2>this before. But in a nutshell Mariner cosplay, Neil Williams,

1207
01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Sarah Meredith Smear tactics all kind of want to know, Like,

1208
01:03:24.880 --> 01:03:28.480
<v Speaker 2>in a nutshell, what can the average person do in

1209
01:03:28.519 --> 01:03:32.000
<v Speaker 2>their life to just help. I mean, I know, limiting

1210
01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:36.679
<v Speaker 2>single use plastic, do not dump a bunch of garbage

1211
01:03:36.719 --> 01:03:37.559
<v Speaker 2>into the ocean.

1212
01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:41.639
<v Speaker 1>That's a great place to start litter. I've got a

1213
01:03:41.679 --> 01:03:45.639
<v Speaker 1>list actually on the Ocean Collective website. There's a resources

1214
01:03:45.639 --> 01:03:47.800
<v Speaker 1>page where you can learn more about all this stuff.

1215
01:03:47.840 --> 01:03:51.159
<v Speaker 1>There's a page on protected areas and on fishing, and

1216
01:03:51.280 --> 01:03:54.719
<v Speaker 1>on climate and on pollution, and there's lots of articles

1217
01:03:54.760 --> 01:03:56.280
<v Speaker 1>and facts you can meete about all that. But there's

1218
01:03:56.320 --> 01:03:58.920
<v Speaker 1>also a list of like ten things you can do.

1219
01:03:59.480 --> 01:04:03.039
<v Speaker 2>So this list is up at oceancollective dot co and

1220
01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:04.760
<v Speaker 2>there's no e on collective.

1221
01:04:05.239 --> 01:04:09.880
<v Speaker 1>But number one is to vote OHO and because because

1222
01:04:10.039 --> 01:04:13.360
<v Speaker 1>politicians are off the hook on a lot of environmental stuff,

1223
01:04:13.360 --> 01:04:17.800
<v Speaker 1>because their constituents aren't making demands of them. And believe me,

1224
01:04:17.840 --> 01:04:19.840
<v Speaker 1>I know there's a lot of other issues people are

1225
01:04:19.840 --> 01:04:22.280
<v Speaker 1>dealing with in the political sphere right now. But if

1226
01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:25.840
<v Speaker 1>we don't hold our politicians accountable for the state of

1227
01:04:25.880 --> 01:04:28.320
<v Speaker 1>the environment, because they have a lot of ability to

1228
01:04:28.840 --> 01:04:31.440
<v Speaker 1>change the rules of the game and give the earth

1229
01:04:31.480 --> 01:04:34.559
<v Speaker 1>a better fighting chance. So I think I think that's

1230
01:04:34.599 --> 01:04:37.599
<v Speaker 1>the number one thing is to be politically engaged. When

1231
01:04:37.599 --> 01:04:40.840
<v Speaker 1>there are bills that come up on you know, funding

1232
01:04:41.880 --> 01:04:46.920
<v Speaker 1>ocean cleanups or research into ocean a certification, or funding

1233
01:04:47.039 --> 01:04:50.199
<v Speaker 1>protection of marine parks, like we should be chiming in

1234
01:04:50.239 --> 01:04:53.039
<v Speaker 1>and saying yes this matters, Yes we want to end

1235
01:04:53.039 --> 01:04:56.440
<v Speaker 1>over fishing. There's a possibility this there's a bill that

1236
01:04:56.639 --> 01:04:59.199
<v Speaker 1>could change the way that fishing is managed, and people

1237
01:04:59.239 --> 01:05:01.599
<v Speaker 1>need to be weighing in and saying, excuse me, you

1238
01:05:01.679 --> 01:05:04.480
<v Speaker 1>want to roll this back and allow people to overfish

1239
01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:07.119
<v Speaker 1>by law. That doesn't seem to make much sense to me,

1240
01:05:07.599 --> 01:05:11.280
<v Speaker 1>and so it seems counterintuitive, but political engagement is the

1241
01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:14.440
<v Speaker 1>number one. And then obviously we can all be more

1242
01:05:14.480 --> 01:05:18.360
<v Speaker 1>careful about choosing sustainable seafood and bringing it up at

1243
01:05:18.360 --> 01:05:20.920
<v Speaker 1>the establishments that we care about and asking for it,

1244
01:05:21.239 --> 01:05:24.559
<v Speaker 1>Reducing our single use plastic, reducing our carbon footprint because

1245
01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:27.440
<v Speaker 1>climate change is having such a big impact on the ocean.

1246
01:05:27.559 --> 01:05:30.920
<v Speaker 1>We can choose resorts when we go on vacation that

1247
01:05:31.159 --> 01:05:35.079
<v Speaker 1>are more ocean friendly or sustainable in general, there's no

1248
01:05:35.119 --> 01:05:36.960
<v Speaker 1>reason to leave your values at home when you go

1249
01:05:37.000 --> 01:05:37.519
<v Speaker 1>on vacation.

1250
01:05:38.119 --> 01:05:41.280
<v Speaker 2>This goes against literally everything Las Vegas was built on,

1251
01:05:41.480 --> 01:05:43.199
<v Speaker 2>which is why it's great advice.

1252
01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:45.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and so the list kind of goes on from there.

1253
01:05:45.519 --> 01:05:46.760
<v Speaker 1>I think I maybe got five or six.

1254
01:05:46.960 --> 01:05:49.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I cross checked this with the take action

1255
01:05:49.719 --> 01:05:52.880
<v Speaker 2>section of the Ocean Collective site, and the remaining items

1256
01:05:52.920 --> 01:05:57.360
<v Speaker 2>were get informed. You're listening to this, great job. Choose

1257
01:05:57.480 --> 01:06:00.880
<v Speaker 2>other sustainable foods and farms, not just seafood. You can

1258
01:06:00.920 --> 01:06:03.719
<v Speaker 2>clean up the coast. You can donate to an ocean

1259
01:06:03.719 --> 01:06:07.119
<v Speaker 2>cause and she has some recommendations on the resources page

1260
01:06:07.480 --> 01:06:10.800
<v Speaker 2>and to help spread the word. So tell people about

1261
01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:14.079
<v Speaker 2>this episode if you feel like it. Okay, now, what

1262
01:06:14.360 --> 01:06:16.679
<v Speaker 2>do you do if you're crying into a bowl of

1263
01:06:16.719 --> 01:06:19.960
<v Speaker 2>fish chowder right now? And when it comes to sustainable seafood,

1264
01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:22.440
<v Speaker 2>is that kind of something that is said to make

1265
01:06:22.519 --> 01:06:25.159
<v Speaker 2>us feel better or is there really no that's real?

1266
01:06:25.239 --> 01:06:30.039
<v Speaker 1>And I think with aquaculture where that kind industry kind

1267
01:06:30.039 --> 01:06:32.199
<v Speaker 1>of got a rough start, but they are figuring out

1268
01:06:32.199 --> 01:06:35.400
<v Speaker 1>sustainable practices. There's a lot of the most exciting work

1269
01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:38.559
<v Speaker 1>in that space for me is around integrated farming or

1270
01:06:38.679 --> 01:06:42.639
<v Speaker 1>vertical ocean farming or called three D ocean farming, and

1271
01:06:42.760 --> 01:06:46.159
<v Speaker 1>it's about growing oysters and muscles and clams and all

1272
01:06:46.159 --> 01:06:49.559
<v Speaker 1>these different kinds of algae together in a simplified ecosystem

1273
01:06:49.599 --> 01:06:51.960
<v Speaker 1>that kind of creates habitat for other things to swim

1274
01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:55.480
<v Speaker 1>through as well. Algae is super, super healthy and underrated

1275
01:06:55.840 --> 01:06:59.679
<v Speaker 1>sea vegetables, as there are now sometimes called in hip spots.

1276
01:07:00.360 --> 01:07:03.639
<v Speaker 1>So eat more algae farmed shellfish you can eat with

1277
01:07:03.679 --> 01:07:06.760
<v Speaker 1>impunity as much as you want those oysters, muscles, clams

1278
01:07:06.920 --> 01:07:09.079
<v Speaker 1>because they actually just filter the water, so we don't

1279
01:07:09.119 --> 01:07:12.559
<v Speaker 1>have to catch wildfish to feed the farmed fish, which

1280
01:07:12.599 --> 01:07:15.920
<v Speaker 1>is a problem with some other species. Although they're also

1281
01:07:15.960 --> 01:07:19.880
<v Speaker 1>innovating feeds from like plant proteins and insect proteins to

1282
01:07:19.960 --> 01:07:23.639
<v Speaker 1>feed fish now, so that industry is coming along well.

1283
01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:27.920
<v Speaker 1>So what I personally eat is those things I eat seaweed,

1284
01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:32.199
<v Speaker 1>I eat farmed shellfish, and I eat sardines and anchovies.

1285
01:07:32.599 --> 01:07:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Because those tiny fish they reproduce quickly, there's lots of them.

1286
01:07:36.119 --> 01:07:38.559
<v Speaker 1>Those tend to be more sustainable than like tunas and

1287
01:07:38.599 --> 01:07:41.719
<v Speaker 1>swordfish and sharks and those things that like take a

1288
01:07:41.719 --> 01:07:44.320
<v Speaker 1>long time to reproduce. They don't make a ton of babies,

1289
01:07:44.639 --> 01:07:47.480
<v Speaker 1>and they tend to be really heavily targeted by fishing.

1290
01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:51.719
<v Speaker 1>So from the big picture, I'd say that, But then again,

1291
01:07:51.800 --> 01:07:54.719
<v Speaker 1>like if you're working, if you're in a local community,

1292
01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:57.719
<v Speaker 1>if you know you're fishermen, if you're part of community

1293
01:07:57.719 --> 01:08:02.320
<v Speaker 1>supported fishery, like the vegetable boxes, the essays community supported agriculture.

1294
01:08:02.360 --> 01:08:04.960
<v Speaker 1>They're now doing that for local fisheries, which is cool.

1295
01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:06.800
<v Speaker 1>You can get like whatever the fishermen caught, you can

1296
01:08:06.840 --> 01:08:08.559
<v Speaker 1>get a share of the catch.

1297
01:08:09.159 --> 01:08:11.480
<v Speaker 2>This by the way, is also a great excuse to

1298
01:08:11.559 --> 01:08:17.800
<v Speaker 2>just casually use the word fishmonger in conversation fishmunges, fishmonger, fishmonger.

1299
01:08:17.920 --> 01:08:21.399
<v Speaker 1>And there's also an app that's helpful, which is from

1300
01:08:21.439 --> 01:08:24.600
<v Speaker 1>the Monitary Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch program that you can download.

1301
01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:26.359
<v Speaker 2>So that's not I wasn't sure if that was just

1302
01:08:26.359 --> 01:08:27.439
<v Speaker 2>focus focus and like.

1303
01:08:27.479 --> 01:08:29.560
<v Speaker 1>No, that's real. There are things that we can feel

1304
01:08:29.600 --> 01:08:31.680
<v Speaker 1>comfortable eating. But I think the question is also like

1305
01:08:32.039 --> 01:08:35.119
<v Speaker 1>how many meals a month or a day should we

1306
01:08:35.159 --> 01:08:38.960
<v Speaker 1>expect to be wild animals, because we would never expect

1307
01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:43.840
<v Speaker 1>to be eating like lions and tigers and you know,

1308
01:08:44.039 --> 01:08:47.199
<v Speaker 1>antelopes as our primary source of protein on land, but

1309
01:08:47.279 --> 01:08:49.359
<v Speaker 1>that's what we're expecting from the ocean. I mean, tuna

1310
01:08:49.439 --> 01:08:51.920
<v Speaker 1>are so high up the food chain, and swordfish and

1311
01:08:51.960 --> 01:08:54.359
<v Speaker 1>all these things, and so I think we just need

1312
01:08:54.359 --> 01:08:57.800
<v Speaker 1>to change the mindset that we can live sustainably off

1313
01:08:57.840 --> 01:09:01.279
<v Speaker 1>of wild animals from the that are at the top

1314
01:09:01.319 --> 01:09:02.119
<v Speaker 1>of the food chain.

1315
01:09:02.479 --> 01:09:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I guess we see the words seafood buffet together

1316
01:09:05.800 --> 01:09:08.920
<v Speaker 2>too much. It's good, I mean, it really does. It's

1317
01:09:08.920 --> 01:09:11.840
<v Speaker 2>the wrong impression of what's out there, and I.

1318
01:09:11.760 --> 01:09:14.159
<v Speaker 1>Think that's part of The problem is that the price

1319
01:09:14.199 --> 01:09:20.600
<v Speaker 1>of seafood hasn't skyrocketed in tandem with the with overfishing.

1320
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:22.760
<v Speaker 1>You'd think that when something gets more rare, it gets

1321
01:09:22.800 --> 01:09:26.039
<v Speaker 1>more expensive, but we haven't seen that as much with

1322
01:09:26.119 --> 01:09:29.399
<v Speaker 1>seafood because it's often really heavily subsidized by governments are

1323
01:09:29.439 --> 01:09:32.840
<v Speaker 1>helping to pay for fuel or boats or whatever to

1324
01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:35.439
<v Speaker 1>send more people out fishing. And so you can still

1325
01:09:35.479 --> 01:09:37.319
<v Speaker 1>get a can of tuna for like what one or

1326
01:09:37.359 --> 01:09:40.199
<v Speaker 1>two bucks? And so if you if that's the case,

1327
01:09:40.319 --> 01:09:43.279
<v Speaker 1>why would you think that it's a problem. It's so cheap,

1328
01:09:43.279 --> 01:09:45.279
<v Speaker 1>there must be a lot of it. And so I

1329
01:09:45.319 --> 01:09:49.479
<v Speaker 1>think until the price of things reflects their value and

1330
01:09:49.520 --> 01:09:52.439
<v Speaker 1>their rarity, then it's going to be really hard to

1331
01:09:53.359 --> 01:09:57.479
<v Speaker 1>have these conversations that sink in because because that price

1332
01:09:57.640 --> 01:09:59.039
<v Speaker 1>is such a strong signal.

1333
01:09:59.319 --> 01:10:01.159
<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, can you imagine if a can of tunea

1334
01:10:01.239 --> 01:10:02.439
<v Speaker 2>was like seventeen dollars?

1335
01:10:02.560 --> 01:10:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1336
01:10:03.319 --> 01:10:07.359
<v Speaker 2>I can't stop picturing Mariah Carey instagramming herself eating tuna

1337
01:10:07.439 --> 01:10:10.279
<v Speaker 2>from a can with like a golden fork and other

1338
01:10:10.279 --> 01:10:14.000
<v Speaker 2>people seeing it. Just like, man, I will never know

1339
01:10:14.319 --> 01:10:17.960
<v Speaker 2>that kind of life, so aspirational. So now I always

1340
01:10:17.960 --> 01:10:21.119
<v Speaker 2>ask these questions at the very end. What about your

1341
01:10:21.199 --> 01:10:23.119
<v Speaker 2>job sucks the most?

1342
01:10:23.199 --> 01:10:26.079
<v Speaker 1>What is the worst email? Really? But it's the same

1343
01:10:26.079 --> 01:10:28.680
<v Speaker 1>thing that sucks about many jobs. I spend way too

1344
01:10:28.760 --> 01:10:32.119
<v Speaker 1>much time answering email. Yeah, just an end listen, but

1345
01:10:32.279 --> 01:10:34.600
<v Speaker 1>it's I mean, that's also the way that I'm able

1346
01:10:34.720 --> 01:10:38.479
<v Speaker 1>to have colleagues all over the world and avoid video chats,

1347
01:10:38.479 --> 01:10:43.039
<v Speaker 1>which I really hate. So so yeah, but so it's

1348
01:10:43.239 --> 01:10:44.359
<v Speaker 1>a blessing and a curse.

1349
01:10:44.800 --> 01:10:46.479
<v Speaker 2>And what do you love the most about your job?

1350
01:10:46.600 --> 01:10:47.159
<v Speaker 2>Or the ocean?

1351
01:10:49.880 --> 01:10:55.359
<v Speaker 1>I love jumping into the ocean, and I love the

1352
01:10:55.359 --> 01:10:59.760
<v Speaker 1>look on people's faces when they understand something about it.

1353
01:10:59.800 --> 01:11:03.000
<v Speaker 1>And it's not like I think the joy and happiness

1354
01:11:03.039 --> 01:11:05.600
<v Speaker 1>the ocean brings us is amazing and I appreciate that too,

1355
01:11:05.640 --> 01:11:07.680
<v Speaker 1>But when like a teenager comes up to me and

1356
01:11:07.760 --> 01:11:10.960
<v Speaker 1>explains to me that parrotfish are important because they eat

1357
01:11:10.960 --> 01:11:14.119
<v Speaker 1>algae and poop sand, and they have this like intense

1358
01:11:14.159 --> 01:11:15.880
<v Speaker 1>look on their face, like I'm explaining to you how

1359
01:11:15.880 --> 01:11:18.000
<v Speaker 1>this ecosystem works, and like we all to be on

1360
01:11:18.039 --> 01:11:20.720
<v Speaker 1>board with this, Like that's what brings me the deepest

1361
01:11:20.800 --> 01:11:23.520
<v Speaker 1>joy is so like the confidence and the engage, like

1362
01:11:23.600 --> 01:11:26.960
<v Speaker 1>the engagement in solutions that people have when they learn

1363
01:11:27.079 --> 01:11:31.199
<v Speaker 1>something about it. So that's something that really inspires me.

1364
01:11:31.760 --> 01:11:33.680
<v Speaker 2>Right, It's great when you can see that shift from

1365
01:11:33.720 --> 01:11:36.319
<v Speaker 2>an ownership of the ocean, like it's ours to exploit,

1366
01:11:36.520 --> 01:11:40.640
<v Speaker 2>versus like, uh, a responsibility to the ocean, do you

1367
01:11:40.640 --> 01:11:42.560
<v Speaker 2>know what I mean? Like absolutely, you know, like a

1368
01:11:42.600 --> 01:11:45.399
<v Speaker 2>familiarity and an investment in it, you know.

1369
01:11:45.840 --> 01:11:46.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1370
01:11:46.319 --> 01:11:50.359
<v Speaker 2>But and now where can we find you and your company? Like,

1371
01:11:50.920 --> 01:11:53.079
<v Speaker 2>give us, give us some links so we can gently stock.

1372
01:11:53.399 --> 01:11:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm very easy to stop. I think if you

1373
01:11:56.039 --> 01:11:58.960
<v Speaker 1>put like Iana and marine biologist and you'll find me.

1374
01:11:59.039 --> 01:12:01.960
<v Speaker 1>And that Ocean Collective is the name of the company.

1375
01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:04.039
<v Speaker 1>And there's no e at the end of collective because

1376
01:12:04.159 --> 01:12:07.600
<v Speaker 1>that is a heavy metal band in Australia. And obviously

1377
01:12:07.640 --> 01:12:10.560
<v Speaker 1>we needed all the social handles to be consistent, so

1378
01:12:10.600 --> 01:12:14.840
<v Speaker 1>it's Oceancollective dot co is our website, and we're at

1379
01:12:14.880 --> 01:12:20.119
<v Speaker 1>Ocean Collective on Twitter and Instagram. Cool and then personally

1380
01:12:20.319 --> 01:12:23.800
<v Speaker 1>and you can find me at Aana Eliza on Twitter

1381
01:12:23.840 --> 01:12:28.600
<v Speaker 1>and Iona dot Elizabeth on Instagram. I think the online

1382
01:12:28.640 --> 01:12:31.520
<v Speaker 1>ocean community is actually a really cool aspect of the

1383
01:12:31.600 --> 01:12:34.960
<v Speaker 1>job as well, because nerdy ocean jokes are amazing.

1384
01:12:36.319 --> 01:12:38.319
<v Speaker 2>There's so many puns to be made.

1385
01:12:38.359 --> 01:12:40.079
<v Speaker 1>So anyone, I actually haven't ever know a file full

1386
01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:42.000
<v Speaker 1>of ocean punds? Do you really this is the thing

1387
01:12:42.039 --> 01:12:42.279
<v Speaker 1>I have?

1388
01:12:42.840 --> 01:12:44.600
<v Speaker 2>Do you have? Do you have to highlight one and

1389
01:12:44.720 --> 01:12:45.920
<v Speaker 2>just pop it in the end of an email?

1390
01:12:46.159 --> 01:12:49.279
<v Speaker 1>No, I actually try to avoid them. I like, I'm

1391
01:12:49.319 --> 01:12:51.920
<v Speaker 1>amused by the list of them and how many there

1392
01:12:51.960 --> 01:12:54.479
<v Speaker 1>are that you wouldn't know until you're writing an email

1393
01:12:54.520 --> 01:12:56.159
<v Speaker 1>about the ocean, and then you'd be like, all right,

1394
01:12:56.239 --> 01:12:58.720
<v Speaker 1>let's dive into this people and like figure it out,

1395
01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:01.119
<v Speaker 1>like don't be afraid to get your feet wet, like

1396
01:13:01.239 --> 01:13:03.880
<v Speaker 1>let's just like figure out how we're gonna And I'm

1397
01:13:03.920 --> 01:13:07.600
<v Speaker 1>just like, Anna, you can't do that because it's confusing

1398
01:13:07.720 --> 01:13:09.880
<v Speaker 1>if you're actually talking about the ocean.

1399
01:13:10.680 --> 01:13:13.439
<v Speaker 2>Does anyone ever write back? I see what you did there?

1400
01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:17.079
<v Speaker 1>Always not yet ort not yet.

1401
01:13:17.359 --> 01:13:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm excited for your book to come out too.

1402
01:13:19.000 --> 01:13:21.199
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for the work that you do.

1403
01:13:21.600 --> 01:13:22.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure the ocean would.

1404
01:13:22.920 --> 01:13:27.640
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for your great questions and all of your patreons questions.

1405
01:13:27.760 --> 01:13:30.319
<v Speaker 2>There's so many questions, I mean, I had to consolidate

1406
01:13:30.359 --> 01:13:33.800
<v Speaker 2>into categories. So many people were like whoa, yeah, So

1407
01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:34.960
<v Speaker 2>thank you for doing this.

1408
01:13:35.119 --> 01:13:36.279
<v Speaker 1>My pleasure anytime.

1409
01:13:36.439 --> 01:13:39.199
<v Speaker 2>Awesome. Okay, so we have come to the final credits

1410
01:13:39.239 --> 01:13:42.119
<v Speaker 2>of this sad, romantic saga, but with a glimmer of

1411
01:13:42.159 --> 01:13:46.159
<v Speaker 2>hope for maybe a happier sequel. So find doctor Anna

1412
01:13:46.279 --> 01:13:49.199
<v Speaker 2>Johnson all over the internet, watch her amazing ted, talk

1413
01:13:49.520 --> 01:13:53.000
<v Speaker 2>her public speaking, check out Ocean Collective, and just tell

1414
01:13:53.000 --> 01:13:55.720
<v Speaker 2>the world about the episode so we can stop losing

1415
01:13:55.760 --> 01:13:58.920
<v Speaker 2>sleep of the ocean and just start making better choices. Now,

1416
01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:01.239
<v Speaker 2>go talk to your fishmunk. You can sign up for

1417
01:14:01.279 --> 01:14:04.239
<v Speaker 2>a beach or river cleanup. You can donate five bucks

1418
01:14:04.279 --> 01:14:07.479
<v Speaker 2>to an ocean charity, or start reading up on plastic use.

1419
01:14:07.640 --> 01:14:10.640
<v Speaker 2>You got this, You're so well armed. Now you got this.

1420
01:14:11.279 --> 01:14:13.119
<v Speaker 2>Now to support the podcast, you can sign up to

1421
01:14:13.159 --> 01:14:16.039
<v Speaker 2>be a patron if you want at patreon dot com.

1422
01:14:16.079 --> 01:14:20.199
<v Speaker 2>Slash Ologies Merch is available at ologiesmerch dot com, and

1423
01:14:20.239 --> 01:14:23.119
<v Speaker 2>there's a grip of back to school stuff up as

1424
01:14:23.119 --> 01:14:27.199
<v Speaker 2>of today, so collegiate crestedge shirts and things to put

1425
01:14:27.199 --> 01:14:29.760
<v Speaker 2>you in kind of an autumn frame of mind. Thank

1426
01:14:29.800 --> 01:14:32.039
<v Speaker 2>you Bonnie Dutch for all your new designs, and Shannon

1427
01:14:32.039 --> 01:14:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Feltis for helping run the site and for putting on

1428
01:14:34.920 --> 01:14:37.600
<v Speaker 2>the sold out campologies event in Portland in a few

1429
01:14:37.600 --> 01:14:41.439
<v Speaker 2>weeks in September. Thank you Aaron Talbert and Hannah Liippo

1430
01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:45.319
<v Speaker 2>for being admins to the Facebook Ologies podcast group, and

1431
01:14:45.399 --> 01:14:49.039
<v Speaker 2>thank you as always to podcastmonger Stephen Ray Morris for

1432
01:14:49.199 --> 01:14:52.279
<v Speaker 2>editing and helping produce this. The music was written and

1433
01:14:52.319 --> 01:14:55.880
<v Speaker 2>performed by Nick Thorburn, who also did Cereals podcast seme

1434
01:14:56.159 --> 01:14:59.119
<v Speaker 2>he makes other great music in the band Islands and

1435
01:14:59.439 --> 01:15:01.920
<v Speaker 2>in solo efforts. Now, if you stay at the end

1436
01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:05.119
<v Speaker 2>of the episode, you know that I tell you a secret.

1437
01:15:06.319 --> 01:15:09.159
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for all of your support in

1438
01:15:09.279 --> 01:15:11.800
<v Speaker 2>terms of last week's secret about how I'd never seen

1439
01:15:11.960 --> 01:15:15.600
<v Speaker 2>any of the Harry Potter movies and this, you know what,

1440
01:15:15.640 --> 01:15:18.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna give you another Harry Potter secret because you

1441
01:15:18.760 --> 01:15:21.159
<v Speaker 2>guys seem to be passionate about it. I was really

1442
01:15:21.199 --> 01:15:24.520
<v Speaker 2>afraid of taking the test to find out what house

1443
01:15:24.560 --> 01:15:25.920
<v Speaker 2>I would be in because I was like, what if

1444
01:15:25.960 --> 01:15:28.159
<v Speaker 2>I come up Slytherin? What if I find out I'm

1445
01:15:28.199 --> 01:15:32.720
<v Speaker 2>like kind of lightly evil just through a Harry Potter quiz.

1446
01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:36.079
<v Speaker 2>I took the quiz, and I guess it turns out

1447
01:15:36.079 --> 01:15:41.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm Gryffindor. I don't know what that means, but I

1448
01:15:41.239 --> 01:15:45.399
<v Speaker 2>think it's okay, okay, we're all in this thing together.

1449
01:15:45.520 --> 01:15:46.760
<v Speaker 1>Good job, Bye.

1450
01:15:46.560 --> 01:15:59.119
<v Speaker 2>Bye, pacadermatology, mombiology, rypdo zoology, lithology, zology, meteorologyology, ethnology, zeriology.

1451
01:16:06.680 --> 01:16:08.159
<v Speaker 1>When life gets you down, you know what you gotta do.

1452
01:16:08.199 --> 01:16:09.439
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to know what you gotta do. Just

1453
01:16:09.560 --> 01:16:14.039
<v Speaker 1>keep swimming, Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming,