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Loop to Canadian. 22 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:16.159 You are now listening to true Murder, the most shocking 23 00:01:16.239 --> 00:01:19.280 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 24 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:26.640 written about them. Gasey Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every 25 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:30.319 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 26 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:34.640 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with Your 27 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:38.519 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 28 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:54.879 Good Evening, Golden State Killer, East Area Rapist, Original Nightstalker, 29 00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:59.120 the Salia Ransacker, and Moore. The story of the Golden 30 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:02.879 State Killers began? Who else was he? As he traveled 31 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:03.439 through time? 32 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:04.680 Was he? 33 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:07.519 Is he? The Zodiac killer who terrorized us in the 34 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:10.479 nineteen sixties and who sits in the Sacramento County jail 35 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:14.800 awaiting trial. And Penn presents evidence of other monikers that 36 00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:18.560 belonged to this man spanning the almost six decades the 37 00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:22.759 killer roam the state of California. The career impossible monikers 38 00:02:22.759 --> 00:02:27.479 for the same man nineteen sixty to twenty eighteen. This 39 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:29.719 is the true story of how such a man remained 40 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:32.680 free all of those years. This is the true story 41 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:35.199 of the man's patterns and attacks from the beginning until 42 00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:39.680 the end. The story continues. The most prolific serial criminal 43 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.960 in California history, he could be the most prolific serial 44 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:46.840 killer ever. He could not be stopped until DNA and 45 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:51.319 genetic genealogy found him What if? This is truly how 46 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:54.759 the story goes, and has written about the possibilities and 47 00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:56.719 writes about things no one else has mentioned in the 48 00:02:56.800 --> 00:03:00.199 Zodiac story. The book that we're featuring this evening is 49 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:05.080 What If Golden State Killer Zodiac Solve with my special 50 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:09.879 guest journalist and author and Penn. Welcome to the program, 51 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:11.479 and thank you very much for a green this interview 52 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:14.039 and Pen, Thank you. 53 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:15.520 Dan, I appreciate it. 54 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:20.639 Thank you very much. Again. The story continues of one 55 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:27.800 of the most fascinating cases in true crime history. First off, 56 00:03:28.639 --> 00:03:33.719 why this book? What if? What's the purpose of this book. 57 00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:39.960 To try to light on how far back the crimes 58 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:43.840 of this particular man may go, and that he was 59 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:49.120 an expert at evading capture and use law enforcement tactics 60 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:52.719 against us, against the community, and against the people that 61 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:54.280 he hurts. 62 00:03:56.560 --> 00:03:59.599 Very interesting. As we were going to talk about this, 63 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:06.759 said that this was a common assumption that possibly once 64 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:11.199 especially the Angelo was arrested for the East Area rapist, 65 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:15.120 the original night Stock or Golden State Killer crimes, that 66 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:19.319 especially people were saying, is there a link? Could he 67 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:22.279 possibly be the Zodiac? This was not just your idea. 68 00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:29.720 So now from there why did you undertake to show, 69 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:34.160 to prove, to state the case that they're one and 70 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:34.519 the same. 71 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:40.000 Well, I actually never started out to end up here. 72 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:45.759 The original purpose for the book was excuse me one second. 73 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:51.279 The original purpose for the book was to just try 74 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:54.600 to look at what other murders the Agelo may have committed, 75 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:58.240 what the patterns of attack were, what areas he was in, 76 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:01.199 because now we knew. I looked at you know, where 77 00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:04.680 he lived, and what he was doing, what was going 78 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:07.199 on in his life, what you know, what he may 79 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:11.000 have done. And as you start to look into that, 80 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:15.079 I mean, it goes Anybody who knows anything about serial killers, 81 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:17.600 of course, knows that they didn't just happen to start 82 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:22.120 killing in their thirties. They probably started committing crimes when 83 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:25.800 they're fifteen, you know, when they're teens. And so you 84 00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:29.040 go back to like maybe nineteen sixty in his case, 85 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:32.600 he was about fourteen, almost fifteen that year, and you 86 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:35.720 start to see where he may have been, you know, 87 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:38.879 what was going on. And as you do that, and 88 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:41.639 it took quite a while really to sort of peel 89 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:46.319 back all the different you know, scenarios and different opportunities 90 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:52.319 he had, timelines, the geography. You start to see where 91 00:05:52.600 --> 00:05:54.560 in the beginning of the book I talk about the 92 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:59.360 dog poisonings, which I know was talking to a gentleman 93 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:04.040 about who research that in depth. And the reality is 94 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:07.680 is we know that DeAngelo hated dogs, and he was 95 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:11.000 arrested in seventy nine with dog repellent and a hammer. 96 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:14.480 And so if you go back to the area he 97 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:17.240 grew up in, what you see is a bunch of 98 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:21.040 dog poisonings in the Plaster area, which is in California, 99 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:25.319 northern California, and you see this pattern emerge where they're 100 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:30.680 dog killing sixteen sometimes ten, huge numbers of animals being 101 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:34.439 killed with strychnine, and then there'd be burglaries. And you 102 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:37.879 can see that in not only that area, but in 103 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:42.000 different areas that he traveled over time, there'd be a 104 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:45.120 bunch of a rash of dog poisonings and then a 105 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:48.680 bunch of burglaries and other types of crimes. So you 106 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:50.160 can see something's going on. 107 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:57.120 It's fascinating too that you did that work and followed 108 00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:01.759 certain areas from he was living at one point Exeter, 109 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:07.160 and showed also and told also because you're a California native, 110 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:10.199 tell us the advantage you have from living in California 111 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:13.279 as opposed to somebody else looking at this from afar, 112 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:17.920 especially because you say geography is a huge reason why 113 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:20.920 he was free for all those years and is a 114 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:22.959 huge element. 115 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:26.839 In this story, right, Yeah, because I really do think 116 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.879 that he was very aware of the county lines everywhere 117 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:33.399 he went. He knew where the jurisdictions began and ended. 118 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:37.399 He knew that he could hit in one place, travel 119 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:40.000 an hour if he wanted to, and hit someplace else. 120 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:43.319 I mean, there's one instance in the book where he 121 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:47.000 was in one place that we can see raping somebody 122 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:49.759 and drove another hour or two away, and the same 123 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:52.959 thing happened within the same twelve hour period, and so 124 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:55.199 you know, and of course we can't prove that it's 125 00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:59.360 in because nobody kept a kit rape kits or slides 126 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:02.279 or any of that because of the statute of limitations. 127 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:05.600 But if we did have that information, we could actually 128 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:09.480 prove what his travels were, what jurisdictions he did hit 129 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:13.399 in because when you archives, when you look at the archives, 130 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:17.800 the historical information, you can see, you know, different patterns 131 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:21.680 where he would kill dogs and move, he would you know, 132 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:24.319 create all kinds of havoc and do all kinds of 133 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:27.319 terrible things, and then then he'd move up the road. 134 00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:32.799 And this continued, you know, for decades. So that's what 135 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:35.360 the pattern is. And I do have to acknowledge too 136 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:42.519 that the dog poisoning articles were given to the public 137 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:47.320 domain and also to a gentleman that I helped, that 138 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:50.720 helped me investigate those things, and he was very instrumental 139 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:54.559 in that. His name is Paulie, And I has a 140 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:56.519 cheat to say that because I don't have his permission, 141 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:58.480 but I call him Sam in the book. But I 142 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:01.440 want to make sure he has some acknowledgment for all 143 00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:04.240 the hundreds and hundreds and thousands of hours that he 144 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:04.879 put into this. 145 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:13.000 So right, yeah, now, what was that collaboration? What else 146 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:15.519 did it entail that collaboration, because you say, this is 147 00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:19.480 again instrumental this collaboration. So what else did this person 148 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:22.600 bring to this other than just a sounding board and 149 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:23.679 a fellow researcher. 150 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:28.200 Well, he was looking at our news article and we 151 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.440 were sharing information back and forth. And the reason that 152 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:34.320 I think that we collaborated so well was because, in 153 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:36.440 his own words, he said, you're the only one who 154 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:40.720 can see what I see and I'm sure that there 155 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:42.559 are other people that will be able to see it, 156 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:45.600 but it needed to be told in a fashion where 157 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:49.720 people are not overwhelmed with information because he couldn't have 158 00:09:49.759 --> 00:09:52.840 committed every crime in the state of California. He couldn't 159 00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:56.399 have committed every murder or rape. We know this, but 160 00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:00.159 we want to know which ones he did commit. So 161 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:06.039 when you study a criminal in depth, there are certain 162 00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:09.759 ones that you absolutely know he had to have something 163 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:15.159 to do with. So those kinds of things law enforcement 164 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:18.480 are interested in, of course, because there are so many 165 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:22.000 unsolved murders of women, especially in the state of California 166 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:26.679 from nineteen sixty three on, and also couples. 167 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:32.879 You provide the background that I think was new for 168 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:38.120 me to read about Joseph di'angelo and the Hamilton Air 169 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:41.320 Force Base and Van Nuys and Kathleen, his mother and 170 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:46.840 the four children, and also him being in fulsome high school. 171 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:50.039 We're well aware of that from your other two books, 172 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:54.279 A Murder on His Mind and Creep among Us. Tell 173 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:58.279 us about the Navy, and again he's what age when 174 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:01.240 he goes into the Navy from high school, and there 175 00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:09.360 are personal events interactions with women that are obviously shaped 176 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.120 what happened to him later on in his crime life. 177 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:15.159 Tell us a little bit about the background that you 178 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:19.440 provide in this book that was crucial to understanding his 179 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:24.919 mindset and development of this potential or this future serial killer, 180 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:27.080 pardon me, and. 181 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:30.200 Also the geography of where he was. Now. Everybody that 182 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:34.080 studies these crimes, every sleuth that's out there already knows 183 00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:36.600 that he went in the Navy when he was about eighteen. 184 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:38.840 He dropped out of high school to go into the Navy. 185 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:41.720 And this was not too terribly long after his parents 186 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:45.480 were divorced, and I think that that really was his trigger, 187 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:51.240 not so much the situation with Bonnie later on, and 188 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:54.000 that was a catalyst for him to act out more 189 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:57.879 when Bonnie, his girlfriend that he had in nineteen seventy 190 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:01.120 dropped him in nineteen seventy one. But I really think 191 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:05.039 that when he really was triggered to, you know, really 192 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:08.480 go after all these terrible things was when his parents 193 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:11.799 were divorced and his father was stationed in the area 194 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:17.039 in the Bay area, Evado and Van Nuys, And you know, 195 00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:20.200 he probably knew from being with his dad that area 196 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:23.320 to a certain extent, And I wondered how much did 197 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:25.320 he know about it? Did he go to Lake Berryessa 198 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:28.000 when he was a kid. You know, he knows California. 199 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.360 He knows California in a way that somebody who has 200 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:36.919 traveled it, you know, intimately knows it. And so he knew, 201 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:39.519 you know, what he could do and where he could 202 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:41.320 do it, and then he would move on and he 203 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:42.480 did change MS. 204 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:50.679 So what's interesting, and I think we will have to 205 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:54.039 talk about this later to put it in context, that 206 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:58.679 you provide some startling information that really does dispel this 207 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:03.519 idea that serial killers, according to profiles, can't change mos. 208 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:06.320 Don't change mos. I don't think they say it. They're 209 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:09.440 saying it unequivocally. They just provide that this is what 210 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:13.559 the profile says. You have some startling information based on 211 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:18.639 those rape kits that inadvertently you get this incredible information 212 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:20.840 that certainly supports your MO theory. 213 00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:25.639 Yeah, and well, what's interesting about a lot of people 214 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:28.440 don't think that this man could possibly have been the 215 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:31.919 Zodiac because he didn't rape the women, or they think 216 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:34.919 that he can't possibly be that guy because he was 217 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:38.320 somewhere else. You know, they have all kinds of ideas 218 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:40.879 that he can't possibly be him. And one of them 219 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:43.639 is his m O and the m A that he 220 00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:47.919 changed over time. We know that he was by sailure Ransucker. 221 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:51.679 We know that there were a lot of crimes committed 222 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:55.559 even before then in the sixties in Sacramento area where 223 00:13:55.559 --> 00:13:57.879 he came from, in fulsome where, there were rapes and 224 00:13:57.919 --> 00:14:01.600 there were other things that were occurring, and he was 225 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:06.799 smart enough to know when to move on. And you know, 226 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:10.759 it's not a far stretch of the imagination to realize 227 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:13.320 that when he got out of the Navy that he 228 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:16.759 was he knew the Bay area. He you know, didn't 229 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:19.399 have school yet to go get his criminal justice degree. 230 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:24.519 He didn't know Bonnie yet, but he was angry, and 231 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:26.279 so you know, it's not a far start of the 232 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:29.679 imagination to realize that he could have started in i say, 233 00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:33.879 nineteen sixty three down on the beach at Lompoc and 234 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:37.879 then continued on and each time you see him do 235 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:41.919 something and then he leaves. So we know that in 236 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:47.720 like before he went in the Navy, So in Lompoc, 237 00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:51.399 the crimes that were committed down there against couples killed 238 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:56.720 they That was in nineteen sixty three, nineteen sixty four. 239 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:00.480 All of a sudden, we see him vanish. He went 240 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:04.399 in the navy, and nothing terrible happens for a while. 241 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:08.320 So you can track him geographically and with the timeline. 242 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:12.559 And the only thing that I don't have is DNA 243 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:16.240 proof of this. What I have is you know, his 244 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:22.000 uh geographical profile, his m O, his timelines, and you know, 245 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:24.720 every time there's a crime committed, you find that he 246 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:29.320 was available for that crime or you know, so that's 247 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:31.600 you know, you just kind of follow what goes on 248 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:36.480 and then figure out that you know, it really could 249 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:40.919 be him. So there's there's no reason that he couldn't 250 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:43.679 change his m He told the whole world when he 251 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:47.120 was Zodiac. And like I said, I'm saying, alleged Zodiac, 252 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:50.360 alleged Golden State killer. He you know, he's not been 253 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:53.559 proven guilty in a court of law. These are these 254 00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:58.559 are theories and and and it's actually circumstantial evidence of 255 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:01.679 him being in an area of these things happening, and 256 00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:05.200 there are patterns, there are clusters, and it continues over 257 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:09.559 time and space, decade after decade. 258 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:17.080 You provide and like I said, sorry, you provide is 259 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:21.279 a woman that you say that was stocked and she 260 00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:25.919 provided all of this these bits of evidence, pieces of 261 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:31.360 evidence eventually, but her rebuffed initially by law enforcement in 262 00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:35.279 the county where she was. She contacted you, you hooked 263 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:38.840 her up with again, tell us the story and what 264 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:43.720 this tells you and in support of your theory much 265 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:44.279 as well. 266 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:49.159 This is an anonymous woman because I don't have her 267 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:52.279 permission to write her story. I don't know if she 268 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:56.720 will eventually. But the thing that Deangela did in general 269 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:02.240 is that he would stalk people. He would peep, he would, 270 00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:05.799 you know, keep showing up. There are there's evidence that 271 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:09.319 in the dark and the far and murders that there 272 00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:14.519 was somebody that knew her had come into her place 273 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:18.200 of employment. There. There was also evidence at Betty lou 274 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:23.000 Jensen's house where somebody was out there peeping the gates 275 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:25.640 were left open. Who does that sound like? It sounds 276 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:28.400 like the Easter Airy rapist. He would peep, he would stalk, 277 00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:31.599 he would you know, go and leave gates open and 278 00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:36.200 just sort of try to terrorize people. So the patterns 279 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:39.640 are really similar and or the same over and over again. 280 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:41.960 So those are the things you have to look at 281 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:47.119 when you're considering evidence of more monikers that he may deserve. 282 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:54.319 So this particular woman did finally realize when the East 283 00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:59.440 Airy rapist was arrested that she actually knew him. She 284 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:01.559 had never seen her stalk her. He stalked her for 285 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:05.400 years and years and years and kind of followed her 286 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:08.319 from one place to another and left items in her 287 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:12.640 home and just terrorized her in general, would make phone calls. 288 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:15.240 So this went on for you know, like twenty years 289 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.359 or more. Actually it was until twenty seventeen at least, 290 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:22.839 and she didn't realize that she actually had known him 291 00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:27.759 at one point as a cop. And when she saw 292 00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:30.759 who it was when they arrested him and said his name, 293 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:34.359 she just sat down and cried. So but she had 294 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:36.880 contacted me and we spoke for seven or eight months 295 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.000 at least and discussed, you know, some of the things 296 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:43.799 that went on. And people are interesting because they contact me. 297 00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:47.599 And like one of the other ladies who spoke in 298 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:52.000 my other book, doctor Sue Barrett, she had the Easter 299 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:55.160 rapists come into her home in nineteen eighty three in 300 00:18:55.640 --> 00:19:00.640 the attack zones in Sacramento after everyone had said that 301 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:04.880 he left, and when she told her story on Facebook, 302 00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:07.559 she was starting to take quite a beating from people 303 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:10.559 saying I don't believe anything she said. And I didn't 304 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.880 know her from Adam, and I just said, I believe 305 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:16.160 every word she says because it is totally him. And 306 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:19.599 he did continue to do what he wanted to do 307 00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:24.519 in Sacramento after nineteen eighty when they thought he was gone, 308 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:27.279 and as we know, he was sitting right there, had 309 00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:30.960 purchased a home just down the street. So and he 310 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:34.359 sat there for the next thirty years. So he didn't stop. 311 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:37.079 He never stopped anything that he was doing. He just 312 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:40.480 changed it up. And if you see that pattern, and 313 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:43.160 he knows what to do to get out of a 314 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.480 place within fifteen minutes to a half hour, law enforcemental 315 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:49.039 show up, takes him a while to get there. He 316 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:52.319 knows how to go, how to get out, and had 317 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:53.079 ton Ocket caught. 318 00:19:54.200 --> 00:20:01.480 So why, as many people would have, why the zodiac, 319 00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:06.359 Why such a dramatic change in mo O? What would 320 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:09.480 be the again you just mentioned there's a reason for 321 00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:12.400 it to to shake up law enforcement. He is a 322 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:16.880 law enforcement had graduated with a criminal justice degree, so 323 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:20.519 at least he believes that he's smarter then law enforcement, 324 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:24.640 and he's proved that to himself with crimes progressively from 325 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:27.880 a young age on various crimes as well. So he 326 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:31.400 thinks he's quite right. Yeah, he's proved, he's proved it. Yeah, 327 00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:38.440 but why why the zodiac? And then again explain why 328 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:41.799 that that? Why such a dramatic difference? Why a mask 329 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:46.000 a disguise? You also talk about that you have evidence 330 00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:51.599 of him using disguises, which reinforces why maybe again a 331 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:54.279 completely different persona. 332 00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:58.359 And what's interesting is he actually did use pigs, and 333 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:00.720 he did use disguises, and he did change it up, 334 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:04.160 and he did everything you can think of better and 335 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:07.480 more than anybody else I've ever studied, and I've studied 336 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.519 a lot of serial killers. But the reason that he 337 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:15.839 you know, if in fact it's proven beyond reasonable doubt 338 00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:20.400 that he is also deserving of the Moniker Zodiac. One 339 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:22.599 thing is he was He was able to be in 340 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.240 that area. And people don't understand in California how close 341 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:29.400 Auburn is to the Presidio for example, in San Francisco. 342 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:33.480 They don't understand how he could attack and leave and 343 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:38.359 go to the Lejou for instance, from Lee Kerman, It's 344 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:41.359 really not that far away. He could vanish easily because 345 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:45.480 he typically had some place to go, and he got 346 00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:48.160 the heck out of there. But the thing that happened 347 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:52.799 with the Zodiac murders is that after he took out 348 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:56.160 a few couples, the outlier for me was the Paul 349 00:21:56.200 --> 00:22:01.160 Stein murder. And after that attack, do know that someone 350 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:04.079 saw him and gave a composite And so he knew 351 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:06.440 that it was time to move on. 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The police shall never catch me 386 00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:38.319 because I have been too clever for them. And this 387 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:42.559 was a communication was received. I believe it was November ninth, 388 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:48.400 and the postmark was November eighth, which is ironically DeAngelo's birthday. 389 00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:53.680 And he was gone. And then what's to keep him 390 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:57.240 from changing up his routine and that's what I think 391 00:23:57.279 --> 00:23:57.640 he did. 392 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.319 You provide evidence too that there are some things that 393 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:08.240 he says, there are some the way he says certain things, 394 00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:13.680 and sort of the the motivation seems beyond coincidence between 395 00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:16.519 the Zodiac and the East Area rapist, especially when he 396 00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:21.599 can considered the taunting and the messages. It's not exactly 397 00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:25.559 the same, but it seems like FuMB as you explain, 398 00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:30.359 from the same person, right, Yeah, some of the. 399 00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:33.480 Things he said about going to Mexico or maker Field, 400 00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:36.400 different things that he just said. He didn't take money, 401 00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:39.119