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So go to 43 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:54.879 chumpacasino dot com and play over one hundred casino style games. 44 00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:57.400 Join today and play for free for your chance to 45 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:01.640 redeem some serious prices. Jump chump a Casino dot Com. 46 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:05.599 No necessary turns the condition deals. 47 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:18.680 You are now listening to true Murder, The most shocking 48 00:02:18.759 --> 00:02:21.800 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 49 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:29.159 written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 50 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:32.879 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 51 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:37.159 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 52 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:41.039 host journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 53 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:56.039 Good Evening. A narcissistic professional photographer lived a dangerous double 54 00:02:56.120 --> 00:03:01.120 life as a serial killer. He'd focus his rage on prostitutes. Mostly. 55 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:05.000 It wasn't uncommon for him to bring them home, then 56 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:07.280 try to explain why they were there to his wife. 57 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:11.840 Sexual urges met, the killer would strangle as victims and 58 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:14.080 dump their bodies in places he knew the police would 59 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:17.719 eventually find them. The evil murderer needed the world to 60 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:20.159 know that he was smarter than the police, and women 61 00:03:20.199 --> 00:03:24.879 meant nothing to him but a necessary sexual inconvenience. Then, 62 00:03:24.919 --> 00:03:27.919 by a stroke of chance and aggressive police work, the 63 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:32.039 wheels of justice stumbled upon a lead, nothing more than 64 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:34.680 a line sheet of paper that read list of ten. 65 00:03:35.080 --> 00:03:38.520 But shortly after its discovery, a task force was created 66 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:41.879 and the serial killer was nabbed. This book is about 67 00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:44.479 the victims he left behind, not the person who took 68 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:48.439 their lives. I will never condone such actions, nor will 69 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:53.120 I try to rationalize behavior. He will go to his grave, 70 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:57.280 hopefully sooner rather than later, knowing the identity of four 71 00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:01.039 women from his fabled List of Ten. It's a sick 72 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:04.639 way of showing people he's still in charge. His name 73 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:07.599 is Joseph Naso, and this book will grip you from 74 00:04:07.639 --> 00:04:10.520 the beginning and won't let you go until the final word. 75 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:13.800 The book they're featuring this evening is List of Ten, 76 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:17.279 The True story of serial killer Joseph Naso, with my 77 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:21.759 special guest, journalist and author C. L. Swiney. Welcome to 78 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:25.120 the program, and thank you very much for greening this interview. C. L. 79 00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:29.879 Swinney, Hey, thanks a lot for letting me come on 80 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:31.800 to your show. I'm a big fan, so it's kind 81 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:33.639 of cool to be to actually be on the show. 82 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:37.759 Well, thank you very much. This is an incredible story 83 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:41.040 a serial killer I knew nothing about, so thank you 84 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:46.199 for an incredible story and introduction to a very very 85 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:52.920 colorful serial killer, Joseph Naso. Now let's start with, without 86 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:56.439 giving anything away, just briefly, how did you come to 87 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:58.160 be the author of this book? How did you come 88 00:04:58.199 --> 00:05:01.240 to want to write about Josep tell Us about that. 89 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:06.639 So I've written several other books about serial killers and 90 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:10.439 had just come off my eighth book, and I was 91 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:14.199 looking for targets to write about in the San Francisco 92 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:17.279 Bay area. And I've been in the Bay area for 93 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:21.800 almost twenty five years now, and I had never heard 94 00:05:21.839 --> 00:05:25.399 of this case myself. But basically, I was doing some 95 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:30.279 research on serial killers in California and this mister Nassa's 96 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.600 name popped up. And as soon as I started reading 97 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:36.720 some of the details of the case just so I 98 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:39.839 could glean from the internet, I was hooked on the case, 99 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:46.000 mainly because what I kept reading was his victims were prostitutes, 100 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:48.560 and a lot of stuff that came out about the 101 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:53.759 case was just kind of categorizing women in a light 102 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:58.000 that I wasn't a fan of, especially prostitutes. My background 103 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:01.959 is law enforcement, and so I've dealt with and worked 104 00:06:01.959 --> 00:06:03.839 with prostitutes in the past, and I know them to 105 00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:08.240 be people, and so this case is mostly about victims 106 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:11.399 that were prostitutes, and I thought to myself, you know, 107 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:14.240 it's a local case. I have access to data and 108 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:16.720 stuff that I'm going to need to write a good, 109 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:19.120 solid book, but I could also try to track down 110 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:22.759 the victims' families and try to paint a picture of 111 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:25.439 the victims and give them a voice. I mean, that 112 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:27.600 was my goal all along. So that's kind of what 113 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:30.279 drove me to get involved with this case. 114 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:37.800 And you certainly do bring to life. Pardon the expression, 115 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:42.759 but you bring these victims to life in terms of 116 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:45.639 creating real characters rather than what you might get from 117 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:49.000 the newspapers. So you start off this book, You open 118 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:53.360 the book in Oakland, California, in January ninth, nineteen seventy seven, 119 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:58.720 and you introduce rock scene Rogash, and she has a 120 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:05.160 boyfriend named Benjamin Bennett, boyfriend slash pimp. So tell us 121 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:09.920 this about her and her son Shane, and just what 122 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:14.319 she was really like, what she had experienced in her life, 123 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:17.920 and how she was how she got to this position 124 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:20.720 in January nineteen seventy seven. 125 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:25.160 Yeah, So Roxteene kind of became the focal point of 126 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:28.600 the book. And it was largely because I just was 127 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:32.639 compelled to dig deeper and find out about her life. 128 00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:36.399 And every time I learned something new about her and 129 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:40.399 her life, it just kind of made it. It was sad, 130 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:42.279 It was sad. To hear. It was sad to see 131 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:46.240 how her life played out and ultimately led to her 132 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:49.000 demise in being a victim. But she was also the 133 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:53.800 first victim of Joe Nasso, and so her story is 134 00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:58.360 pretty sad. As far as her family life, she grew 135 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:02.680 up in a home environment that was described by her 136 00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:08.000 brother and half sister as violent. There was a lot 137 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:12.120 of violence in the house. Her mother beat the children 138 00:08:12.199 --> 00:08:15.800 quite a bit. She beat all the kids. She didn't 139 00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:19.399 really single out any of her siblings, but rock Scene 140 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:23.399 was the victim of quite a bit of physical abuse. 141 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:27.240 Not sexual that that I could be determined, but physical 142 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:32.279 for sure. And then her biological father passes away, and 143 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:35.440 then her mom remarries, and this guy is just as 144 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.840 abusive as the as her biological father was. So she 145 00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:44.360 was a fighter. She found herself leaving the house and 146 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:47.759 eventually running away from the home, trying to get away 147 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:51.720 from the physical and mental abuse that occurred in her house. 148 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:54.679 And in what happens a lot of times when kids 149 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:57.600 leave their homes, they end up on the streets. And 150 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:00.519 you know, it sounds crazy to say this, and I've 151 00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:03.440 been in law enforcement for seventeen years, but sometimes the 152 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:08.039 streets are more bearable than their own homes, and that 153 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:12.559 was kind of Roxine's thing. She felt more comfortable on 154 00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:16.039 the street than she did in her own house. Yet 155 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:19.320 that was her mom and her biological father had passed, 156 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:22.120 but her siblings were there, so she kept coming back 157 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:29.360 to that chaotic environment. So she had a a childhood 158 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:33.639 that was extremely difficult. Then she was exposed to abuse, 159 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:38.799 both physically and mentally. She experienced her father passing away, 160 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:41.559 and then a new man came in her life, an 161 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:45.159 adult figure, and he was also physically abusive. There was 162 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:46.919 a lot of drug abuse in the home, a lot 163 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:51.240 of alcohol abuse in the home. So Roxine just basically 164 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:55.159 struck out trying to make her way in life. Unfortunately, 165 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:00.840 when she did that, she ended up becoming a prostitute 166 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:04.919 and running into what you did what you mentioned earlier, Benjamin. 167 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:11.559 Strangely enough, though, ben Ben actually really actually loved rox 168 00:10:11.559 --> 00:10:14.440 Scene and this whole story when it starts to open 169 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:19.679 up and I started digging into her murder. Benjamin was 170 00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:22.840 involved with the case. At one point he was considered 171 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.120 a suspect, but he later helped actually with the investigation, 172 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:30.639 so it went full circle for Benjamin. But when she 173 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:34.720 was a prostitute. She ended up being courted by this 174 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:38.000 Joe Nassau character, and at the time he had already 175 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:43.360 been with numerous prostitutes. He had committed hundreds of rapes 176 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:47.720 across the United States and landed in the Oakland area, 177 00:10:47.799 --> 00:10:53.159 the Bay Area proper and ended up with Roxine, And 178 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:57.720 that was Joe's first murder. He paid her for sex 179 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:05.200 they had. Joe needed to try to strangle women to 180 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:08.600 get himself aroused and to reach an erection. I was 181 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:12.759 one of them, you know. More disgusting things about him 182 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:15.679 was that that need to do that and overpower women 183 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:19.559 to reach orgasm. But with Ropscene's case, he did that 184 00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:23.799 and then he strangled her and then took her body away. 185 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:26.960 But he did all matter of factly, very calmly. He 186 00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:29.320 knew of a place out in Fairfax, which is the 187 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:32.759 north end of the San Francisco Bay Area, and literally 188 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:34.840 disposed of her body on the side of a road. 189 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:41.279 Let's go back just a little bit, because I think 190 00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:45.480 it's much more dramatic. You're the introduction of your book, 191 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:50.440 because we talk about again you you capture the complexity 192 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:52.919 of this relationship with Benjamin Bennett. You say he's a 193 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:57.559 pimp piece pimped other women. However, he really cares for her. 194 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:03.159 It's different. She's eighteen years old, she's got this sun 195 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:06.840 Shane when she was pregnant from prostitution, and at that 196 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:12.399 night Benjamin as doing his job as a pimp. He 197 00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:15.240 knows where rock scene is. There's an address where he's 198 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:18.919 going to go to Foothill Boulevard here. So she gets 199 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:23.720 there and you describe what she sees in this strange 200 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:27.000 place and what she sees the photo. So tell us 201 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.759 a little bit more because it's it's fascinating as the 202 00:12:29.879 --> 00:12:32.960 introduction of your book to find out Benjamin is so 203 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:36.320 close people are so close to apprehending him on this 204 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:39.639 one first murder. Tell us, as you do in the book, 205 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:43.639 a little bit about this incredible scene. 206 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:47.960 Yeah, so Joe Naffle shows up on the strip over 207 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:50.440 there in Oakland, and you know, and that was in 208 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:53.960 the late seventies and you still can find prostitution in 209 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:57.600 that same area today in twenty seventeen, so not a 210 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:01.919 lot has changed there, but a deal struck. Basically, Benjamin 211 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:04.360 gives the nod to the John, and at that time 212 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:06.639 they didn't know who he was. They just knew that 213 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:10.600 this John, which was Joe Nasso, John being the term 214 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:15.960 used for people who solicit prostitutes, had been on the street, 215 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:20.840 had been around and looking for women to pay for sex, 216 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:23.960 and so he wasn't He was a stranger, but not 217 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:27.200 a stranger. And so Ben gives the signal yes, you know, 218 00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:31.440 it's fine, and then he takes he allows Roxcene to 219 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:33.759 go with Joe, and he knows he lives over on Foothill, 220 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:37.279 but he doesn't know or he thinks he knows where 221 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:39.000 it is, but he ends up kind of making a mistake. 222 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:41.600 So so, like you said, rox Scene shows up, she 223 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:45.039 gets into this apartment, and she's starting to see stuff 224 00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:48.600 that in mind, you she's she lived on the streets, 225 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:51.159 she's been a prostitute, she's been exposed to things that 226 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:54.080 the average person hasn't seen or or heard of. And 227 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:58.960 she gets into this apartment and she's starting to see 228 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:02.080 stuff that just starts to make her kind of wonder. 229 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:08.440 And so the description of what was in the the apartment, 230 00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:16.600 you know, specifically mannequin's, uh, women's clothing like pantyhose, photos 231 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:19.960 on like the coffee table of women that appear to 232 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:25.600 be partially dressed. Some may even be unconscious. She starts 233 00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:30.200 to get kind of a feeling there's there's got to 234 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:32.000 be that that, oh my gosh, you know what am 235 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:34.679 I doing here? This doesn't seem right. But at the 236 00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:37.320 same time, she's seen a lot in her life, her 237 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:39.360 short life, and so and she's also trying to close 238 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:41.960 the deal, if you will, as far as making this transaction. 239 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:47.840 So I think she gets to a point where it's like, 240 00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:50.200 I got to get out, and it's too late. Joe 241 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:54.960 Nasso has figured it out. She gets hit over the 242 00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:58.480 head and is and this this information I'm giving you 243 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:02.000 is from the autops these and stuff, so you know 244 00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:06.559 it's backed by medical support. But she basically gets knocked 245 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:09.559 out over the head and Joe has his way with 246 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:15.200 with her body. Basically he allows her to uh, he 247 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:19.960 kills her. He's now excited. He has his way sexually 248 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:25.480 with her, and then he was hoping to get this 249 00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:27.879 this shot. And what he what Joe was talking about 250 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:31.200 when he says the perfect shot was he wanted to 251 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:35.840 capture what a woman's face looked like when they knew 252 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:41.799 that death was near, kind of a fear of you know, concern, panic, 253 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:47.120 that kind of that kind of image is what Joe 254 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:48.799 was trying to capture and what and what was in 255 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:52.799 a lot of those photos on that coffee table. So 256 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:55.559 he doesn't kill her right away, but she ends up roxying, 257 00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:59.840 regains consciousness. Uh, and now she's trying to just survive, 258 00:15:59.879 --> 00:16:02.720 and humans will do a lot to try to survive. 259 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:05.799 She knows she's in the bad spot. She knows that 260 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:07.519 this is not a joke. She knows it's not a 261 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:11.200 sexual thing. This is a danger, like I need to 262 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:13.720 get out, And she considers and thinks about her kid, 263 00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:16.559 and you know, she's she's trying to get out. Joe 264 00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:21.399 starts yelling at her a lot, and he's he's just 265 00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:24.559 basically at a point where he hadn't really considered a 266 00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:28.480 murder before, but he did this time. And he has 267 00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:30.679 a rant and rave telling her how she's, you know, 268 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.600 just like all the other women, he's better than them, 269 00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:35.879 that kind of thing, which was kind of an undertone 270 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:40.360 throughout his the rest of the murders that he would commit. 271 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:44.320 But at some point he decides that I've got to 272 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:48.159 kill this girl, and so he basically strangles her to death, 273 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:52.799 and it's just, you know, it's a release for Joe. 274 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:55.960 So he ends up murdering Rock Scene and now he's 275 00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:59.159 got to figure out what to do with her body. 276 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:03.879 But before he can even get that far, Ben, because 277 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:07.400 time has passed, Ben is looking for ROX scene. 278 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:08.599 He ends up getting. 279 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:11.480 Over on a foothill, shows up and he's demanding that 280 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:13.920 Joe opened the door. But the problem is Ben's at 281 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.960 the wrong spot, and that, unfortunately, because he didn't know 282 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:21.240 exactly where Joe lived or where he was, had this 283 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:24.599 whole kind of flop apartment, gave Joe the opportunity to 284 00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:28.839 get away and slip away, And that was what you 285 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:31.960 were talking about. Being close, they would have discovered her 286 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:38.000 killed and Ben probably would have killed or brutally beaten 287 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:40.720 Joe Nasso to you know, because of what he would 288 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:44.000 have discovered had he gotten into that house. And you know, 289 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:47.880 it would have been the end hopefully or theoretically of 290 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:51.440 a reign of murders cremated by Joe Maso. So it 291 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:55.200 was just one of those things where destiny had connected 292 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:57.960 ROX scene to Joe and then Ben almost trying to 293 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:00.519 save the day and almost did it just kind of 294 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.759 opened up this whole case to years and years of 295 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:06.839 him tracking these girls and killing him. 296 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:12.599 You talk about that, because Ben has got an outstanding war. 297 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:14.759 He ends up in the lock up for a month, 298 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:19.480 and Roxceine is not even reported missing for quite a while. 299 00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:23.319 And then you talk about him dumping the body in 300 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:29.200 the Francisco Bay area and then tell us what he 301 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:33.839 does with police himself at the gas station. Tell us 302 00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:38.799 what happens after this in terms of what he does 303 00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:42.640 with the body and his interaction with police. 304 00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:46.720 So the disturbance of Ben trying to break into this 305 00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:51.880 apartment to find his prostitute slash lover, obviously, the police 306 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:54.400 are called and the police show up. Joe slips out 307 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:58.960 the back with the body in his car, and the 308 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:03.039 police arrive and they they detained. Then they run him out. 309 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:06.119 He's not telling him a lot. He's obviously not being 310 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:09.279 upfront with everything as far as the nature of what 311 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:11.359 was going on and what he thought might be going on, 312 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:15.519 obviously because of his quote unquote career. And so they 313 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:17.079 run him out and find out he's a warrant, so 314 00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:20.559 they take him away. At the meantime, Joe is going north. 315 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:25.039 He's going northbound on the local major freeways. He crosses 316 00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:29.799 over five to eighty, which is a major freeway in 317 00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:34.079 the Bay Area, and he's heading towards Fairfax, which is 318 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:37.799 just kind of north if you can imagine of San Francisco, 319 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:41.720 and he's making a decision, Hey, I need to get 320 00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:44.720 rid of this body. But one of the main things 321 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:47.960 he did quite a bit in this case, all except 322 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:52.079 for basically one of the victims that he left behind. 323 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.079 He believes that he's smarter than law enforcement and he's 324 00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:59.200 better than law enforcement, and he wants to leave the 325 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:03.640 body in a spot where he knows he'll be found, 326 00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:07.920 and so he actually has a location offic Sir Francis 327 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:11.680 Drake Boulevard. He takes it out, he goes travels west 328 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:17.119 towards the ocean, and there's a road out there called 329 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:22.400 log and Edith, and he drops Roxine's body there, and 330 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:26.880 she's naked, and she's got some pantyhose wrapped around her 331 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.079 and stuffed in her mouth, which will come back to 332 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:35.519 full circle to help actually identify and convict Joe of 333 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:38.240 these cases. But then he makes a phone call. So 334 00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:40.440 he's disposed of the body, but he puts it in 335 00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:43.079 a spot where he knows law enforcement will or somebody 336 00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:46.359 will stumble upon it and call law enforcement. But then 337 00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:52.319 he makes a phone call. I did not confirm that 338 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:57.039 the phone call was Joe Naso. The investigators in this 339 00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:59.960 case from nineteen seventy seven and from twenty ten try 340 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.759 but and Joe's never admitted to anything, so he's never 341 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:06.160 going to admit to this phone call. But what happens 342 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:11.759 is dispatch receives a call from a mail caller advising, Hey, 343 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.079 I think I see what looks like a body dumped 344 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:19.079 on Sir Francis Drake near Loganitis Road. And obviously from 345 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:23.839 there that's when this whole thing takes off. So Joe 346 00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:27.720 leaves the area, law enforcement is called, a deputy comes 347 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:29.359 out to the scene and sure if not, if he 348 00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:33.559 finds rock scene, and that just was the catalyst for 349 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:34.480 the rest of this case. 350 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:41.680 Right now, what does Joe Nasslo do. He has a 351 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:44.759 habit of moving after he thinks there might be a 352 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:48.640 little bit of and he feels it necessary to move. 353 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.079 But does he move? And what's his next step in 354 00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:53.160 the life of Joe Nazo? 355 00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:57.599 Yeah, so he'll he'll move around. In this particular case, 356 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:01.279 he kind of stayed in the Bay area and and 357 00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:04.519 and remember that he's married during this time, so he 358 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:08.000 actually has a wife and so he's living a double life. 359 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.000 And we we often find in serial killer cases that 360 00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:14.960 these folks live double lives. And when you when people 361 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:18.440 find out, you know, they just can't possibly believe that 362 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.680 this person is the same monster that you know, law 363 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:24.440 enforcement is saying they are. So at the same time 364 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:28.720 he he murdered rock Scene, he was still living with 365 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:32.200 his wife, but he also stayed in the Bay Area. 366 00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:37.480 He wasn't he wasn't overly concerned that he was going 367 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:40.279 to be caught because he thought he had left no 368 00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:43.519 evidence behind and he was very meticulous in how he 369 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.359 disposed of Rockcine, and so he was under the impression 370 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:52.799 that he wasn't in danger. So after a few after 371 00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:58.240 a few months go by, uh, he actually decides, Hey, 372 00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:01.200 you know, I'm gonna go out and see what's going on, 373 00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:04.880 you know, on this trip looking for another prostitute. And 374 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.759 in this case, he stumbles across another girl named Carmen Cologne. 375 00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:15.920 And Carmen was another prostitute kind of working the same 376 00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:19.799 general area that Rox Scene had been working. And remember 377 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:24.440 that throughout probably from the early seventies even into the sixties, 378 00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:29.079 when local prostitutes go missing, not a lot is done 379 00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:31.759 and you know, I'm in law enforcement. Now. If somebody 380 00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:34.519 comes to report that their family member who's a prostitute 381 00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:36.720 is missing, we take the crime report or we take 382 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:40.640 the missing person's report, but we really don't do much 383 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:43.680 more after that. 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