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Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 48 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:29.960 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 49 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:34.240 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 50 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:37.520 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 51 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:53.319 Good Evening. On September fourteenth, nineteen ninety one, in Anchorage, Alaska, 52 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:56.400 a very pregnant Peggy Barnett, along with her nine year 53 00:02:56.439 --> 00:02:58.960 old daughter, drove to the post office to deliver a 54 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:02.840 package to an associate, George Kerre and chug Yik, fifteen 55 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:07.560 miles outside of Anchorage. George's father, David Kerr, picked up 56 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:10.319 the package three days later and brought it home. He 57 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:12.400 and his wife, Michelle, were in the kitchen when David 58 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:16.479 opened the package. The explosion was so intense neighbors feared 59 00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:21.439 there had been an earthquake. David died instantly, but Michelle survived. 60 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:25.840 Michelle told us postal inspectors that Doug Gustavson was involved. 61 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:29.840 It was no secret that Douglas Gustafson and his cohort 62 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:34.639 Raymond Cheeley, despised George care had knowledge of explosives and 63 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:38.120 liked to blow things up. However, they had perfect alibis 64 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:42.120 they were already in prison for murder. An investigative task 65 00:03:42.199 --> 00:03:45.599 force was formed led by US Postal Inspection Service with 66 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:48.919 assistance from the Anchorage Police Department in the US Department 67 00:03:48.919 --> 00:03:52.199 of the Treasury Bureau of Alcohol to back when Firearms 68 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:56.039 ATF to solve this case. The book they were featuring 69 00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:59.520 this evening as the Alaska male Bomb Conspiracy with my 70 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:05.759 special goals, the legendary Burrel Bear. Welcome to the program, 71 00:04:05.879 --> 00:04:09.159 and thank you for very much for greing this interview. 72 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:10.840 The legendary Burrel Bear. 73 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:15.039 Yes, yes, a living legend in my own mind. Always 74 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:17.759 a pleasure to be on your program, Dan, And I'm 75 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:21.639 going to practice being very stoic today to fit in 76 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:23.560 with the Canadian vibratory pattern. 77 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:27.639 Yes, yes, it's not Canadian, it's just but it emanates 78 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:28.920 from a Canadian. 79 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:29.720 So than. 80 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:35.439 My pleasure, Yes, yes, thank you, it's always a pleasure 81 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:38.639 to have you on, Burl. And let's talk about this 82 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:43.399 Alaska mail bomb conspiracy conspiracy? How did it come that 83 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:48.639 you were involved with this? Why this story? What was again? 84 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:49.759 Tell us some of the. 85 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:51.680 How did I get this one? How did I get 86 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:52.240 so lucky? 87 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:53.279 Yes? 88 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:55.680 Well, it goes back to the book I did immediately 89 00:04:55.959 --> 00:04:59.920 before I started this. Now, even though if you have 90 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:04.439 this mail bomb Conspiracy came out fairly recently, I started 91 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:07.480 what was going to be a full length book a 92 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:11.680 long time ago, over twenty years. It was the book 93 00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:15.480 that I was doing immediately after Man Overboard, the Counterfeit 94 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:19.120 Resurrection of Phil Champagne, and doing it for the same publisher, 95 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:24.199 Northwest Publishing. And it was during my investigation of Man 96 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:28.560 Overboard that I met the United States Postal Inspectors who 97 00:05:28.600 --> 00:05:33.319 were involved in that case as well. They're the ones 98 00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:39.800 who told me about this horrific, just absolutely awful, awful 99 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:46.439 case of this mail bomb conspiracy and what it took 100 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:51.360 to solve it. And I thought this was absolutely fascinating, 101 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:54.079 and I did a proposal for the book. We got 102 00:05:54.120 --> 00:05:57.800 a good deal and I started working on it. And 103 00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:02.639 I tell you, the US Postal Inspector were so thrilled 104 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:05.879 to be having a book done about them, because even 105 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:08.720 in the United States of America, where people are so 106 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:14.240 astute and knowledgeable of government issues, people were totally ignorant 107 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:20.279 of the US Postal Inspectors. In fact, Jim Bordenay, who 108 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:25.079 I must credit with being absolutely fantastic in his help 109 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:30.000 in putting this thing together. He made sure that this 110 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:34.040 book or audio book, however you want to call it, 111 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:37.000 is one hundred percent factual. I mean, he made sure 112 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:39.000 I made no mistakes, and if I did, he maybe 113 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:42.160 correct him. So you know, you're getting a real deal 114 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:46.319 story here. But he brought this to my attention and 115 00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:50.240 we started working on it. And then I didn't get paid, 116 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:54.560 and I didn't get paid next or the next and 117 00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:59.040 they called and said, Burrell, how's this book going on 118 00:06:59.079 --> 00:07:04.079 the US Postal I said, well, here's the problem. I 119 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:07.759 haven't been paid in about two or three months. And 120 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:11.759 that's kind of brought everything into a screaming halt. Well, 121 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:13.959 I went fishing for a couple of weeks with my 122 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:17.279 kids at a loon lake, Washington, and I got back 123 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:20.040 and there was a facts on my fax machine, remember 124 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:23.759 those I had a fax machine, And there was a 125 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:28.560 message from the US Postal Inspectors saying, dear mister Behar, 126 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:33.279 you will appreciate this press release pages of the United 127 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:37.480 States Postal Inspection Service or office whatever they're called. Rated 128 00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:44.319 the offices of Northwest Publishing confiscated their computers and they 129 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:48.000 went down. Turns out the true crime was allegedly the 130 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:53.720 publisher and his son, who allegedly were spending the money 131 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:57.439 rather than paying the bills. Over that he was like 132 00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:01.319 three million dollars in corporate checks cashed at the money 133 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:04.319 tree in the mall, paying over two hundred and fifty 134 00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:10.160 thousand dollars in check cashing fees. So for a while, 135 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:14.759 the Alaska mail bomb conspiracy was one of the assets 136 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:20.360 of the company that was in the litigation, and it 137 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:24.879 took a few years for me to get the get 138 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:27.079 the material back and the wrights back because it was 139 00:08:27.079 --> 00:08:30.439 considered an asset of the company. And then what am 140 00:08:30.439 --> 00:08:33.960 I going to do with it? Well, several years later, 141 00:08:34.039 --> 00:08:37.879 let's fast forward to the wonderful author and editor R. 142 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:40.720 Berry Flowers got hold of He had asked if I 143 00:08:40.759 --> 00:08:46.799 would yes go ahead? Did you say something there, dad? 144 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:50.639 No? No, sorry, no, I was just saying yes, yes, yes. 145 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:54.120 H R. Berry Flowers, who he cranks out books faster 146 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:57.720 than I can read him in a variety of genres. 147 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:00.320 He said, bo, would you like to be a master 148 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:03.120 of true crime? And I said, well, I'd like to 149 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:05.960 be the master of something. And slavery is no longer 150 00:09:06.039 --> 00:09:09.679 legal so sure, because I got to be in a 151 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:13.759 verified atmosphere of all these really great true crime writers. 152 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:18.080 So I figured I was snuck in there somehow, you know, 153 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:23.000 a mercy credit, and so I couldn't pass that up. Well, 154 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:25.639 then what was I going to do? Well, I already 155 00:09:25.759 --> 00:09:31.440 had all the research on the Alaska mail bomb conspiracy, 156 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:35.639 and I found the still had Imbordinate's phone number tucked 157 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:40.519 away somewhere, and even though he'd retired, he's still well 158 00:09:40.519 --> 00:09:43.919 connected within the department and had all the information, and 159 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:47.200 he volunteered to help me make sure I got it 160 00:09:47.320 --> 00:09:51.440 right and got it accurate. And we launched into this thing, 161 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:55.000 and I'm really happy with the way it came out. Now, 162 00:09:55.080 --> 00:10:00.120 while it's shorter than a traditional true crime book, I've 163 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:03.519 always had the feeling, in fact, I have Frank Gerardo 164 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:06.559 and I put this in writing. I think, well, we 165 00:10:06.600 --> 00:10:09.399 said it out loud when we did the book, A 166 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:14.080 Taste for Murder and Betrayal in Blue, and that is, 167 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:19.159 to put a mandatory word count on a true crime 168 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:23.759 book isn't really rational because if you have to do 169 00:10:23.799 --> 00:10:28.720 one hundred thousand words on a story that takes eighty 170 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:32.399 thousand to tell, it, really well, what are you doing 171 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:37.799 with the other twenty thousand words? And that's always bothered me. 172 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:41.879 So when you read a really fast moving mystery such 173 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:47.840 as so say mine to bias my novel Headlock, it's 174 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:51.840 going to check in between fifty five thousand, maybe sixty 175 00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:56.279 five thousand tops. You know what, a good quick read, 176 00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:00.159 perfect for the beach. But sometimes you go with a 177 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:02.799 lot of true crime or what they call him now 178 00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:09.799 non fiction thrillers. You find yourself reading the reviews and go, oh, 179 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:15.200 I'm sure he padded this with unnecessary facts. We don't 180 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:19.159 just tell us who killed who and have lots of pictures. 181 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:23.919 So Frank and I just said on that book, let's 182 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:26.279 just write the book, and when we've told the story, 183 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:30.679 we've told the story, and we did very well with that. 184 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.200 I think this is kind of the same theory on 185 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:40.240 this this book. This could have been expanded to whatever 186 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:43.080 word count anybody wanted, because it was. Let me tell 187 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.440 you how extreme this was in the investigation, and I'll 188 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:47.759 tell you a little bit about the crime too, that 189 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:52.559 would be helpful. But almost everybody in the state of 190 00:11:52.600 --> 00:12:00.440 Alaska was wire tapped, and I'm not exaggerating. They'd get 191 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:06.120 federal authorization to wiretap almost everybody in Alaska it could 192 00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:09.720 possibly have any connection to any of the people that 193 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:12.039 they thought may have been involved in They may have 194 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:16.000 been involved, so that meant everybody. So as a process 195 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:20.639 of elimination, if we can eliminate as many people as 196 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:24.919 humanly possible, then we could get down to who may 197 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:29.240 have committed this absolutely horrifying crime. Now you mentioned that 198 00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:33.639 Michelle survived, I think there have been many times when 199 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:37.360 she wished she hadn't. Not only was her husband killed 200 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:43.960 and her house destroyed, her face was melted, her eyes 201 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:48.559 were filled with glass, almost horrifying, and it's cruciating pain 202 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:53.480 for this woman, not only physically, but emotionally, psychologically, financially. 203 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:56.799 I'm sure there are many times when she wished she'd 204 00:12:56.840 --> 00:13:01.480 been a thing forgotten and forgotten, quite very tragic. And 205 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:05.360 no one was trying to kill her, and no one 206 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:09.799 was trying to kill her husband. The two people who 207 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:14.320 actually it comes down to about three or four responsible 208 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:18.440 for this horrible crime. We're trying to kill a cute 209 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:22.120 little puppy dog, George the teenage boy or you know, 210 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:25.440 young adult boy, because they were mad at him because 211 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:31.360 he testified against them in the murder trial, and so 212 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:35.279 they decided to kill him from prison and Pegy, the 213 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:40.679 sister pregnant as you mentioned, drove to the post office 214 00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:43.639 over a very bumpy road. Could have been induced labor 215 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:46.240 right there on the spot and for two dollars and 216 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:51.679 twenty two cents. Male's death and destruction to the home 217 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:58.799 of George and his father and stepmom really horrible. I mean, 218 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:02.279 they found his knuckles the roof. That's how powerful that 219 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:07.919 explosion was. And it's just a horrifying thing. So so 220 00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:09.480 ask me something and I'll answer it. 221 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:14.919 Let's go back to the characters responsible here, the main 222 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:18.960 characters and the ones. You paint a very vivid portrait 223 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:22.159 of Raymond Smiley Chili and you can tell us Whyley 224 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:26.759 call him Smiley. And Douglas Lizard Gustafson, you tell us where. 225 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:34.840 The name is. Uh. Raymond Smiley Chile and Douglas Lizard 226 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:40.799 Gustuson are neither bright men nor endearing characters. They're convicted 227 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:45.879 teenage murderers. Now. Chile's nickname derives from his continual grin. 228 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:48.759 He looks as happy just as if he had brains. 229 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:54.440 Gustuson earned his reputation by his lack of human warmth. Naturally, 230 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:59.679 they became the best of friends. They went to Chugak 231 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:04.879 Heights School, a well known educational institution where they dissipated 232 00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:08.320 their mid teen years and repeated displays of antisocial behavior. 233 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.039 And they had a bunch of buddies that hung out 234 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:15.120 with them. There was Travis and Eric and this guy 235 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:18.159 and that guy, and they did all sorts of typical 236 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:23.720 fun teenage things like blowing up mailboxes. You know, there's 237 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:26.919 not too much to do in Shoegiac. Everyone liked Chili 238 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:30.399 because he had a big suburban and he'd organized parties. 239 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:34.559 He could get a lot of people in that suburban. 240 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:38.080 And they were also known for as the Burden Brothers 241 00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:40.879 because they used to put out their cigarettes in their 242 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:48.399 arms apparently a shortage of astrays in Shoegiac. They didn't 243 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:52.080 think to show they were tough or nuts. We're both 244 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:56.480 or one of the two. They were fairly fearless. They 245 00:15:57.320 --> 00:16:05.360 would rob places, do all sorts of stupid stuff. Yeah, 246 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:08.320 they would get arrested to get in trouble for things. 247 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:11.519 They were juveniles, and he can't do too much to them. 248 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:14.840 You know, you don't want to because with the law 249 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:18.240 enforcement theory, if a juvenile's a linquin can make it 250 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:20.240 to the age of twenty four, you got nothing more 251 00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:23.519 to worry about because usually by then they've either grown 252 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:27.240 up or they've got married, and that'll usually slow them 253 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:30.879 down tremendously when they've got a ball in chain if 254 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:35.559 it's not the president's spouse, so that usually takes care 255 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:40.879 of him. But with Chili, not Raymond Chili, but rather 256 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:44.000 Lizard Gustus. And if they wanted to give me the 257 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:46.840 nickname Lizard, I wouldn't be that pleased. But apparently didn't 258 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:51.919 bother him. He always wanted to be a sniper, whether 259 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:56.960 officially or unofficially, so he mail ordered I believe a 260 00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:01.960 nice sniper rifle. Of course, what's the kid going to 261 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:05.680 do with a rifle like that? Except he was it recklessly. 262 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:08.880 He apparently didn't take very many gun safety courses, or 263 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:11.799 if they did, they totally ignore them. For driving along 264 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:17.559 in the car Smiley is driving, Lizard is in the 265 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.799 passenger seat, and little George is in the back seat. 266 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:26.359 Lizard has his brand new weapon and he decides he's 267 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:33.200 going to fire it, and so he does. That sniper 268 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:40.279 rifle arrived October nineteenth, nineteen ninety and They had a 269 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:44.079 funny evening set up. They had some prostitutes meeting them 270 00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:47.640 at a motel where they're all just going to you know, 271 00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:50.319 smoked open ab sex, which sounds perfectly fine to me, 272 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:56.319 except that on the way to this old party, Lizard 273 00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:58.680 decides he's going to take a pot shot with the rifle. 274 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:05.279 The bullet comes out of the rifle, goes through the 275 00:18:05.319 --> 00:18:12.480 rear window of another car and kills this kid in 276 00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:15.400 I don't mean a little kid, but you know, a 277 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:21.279 young man in the passenger seat. Now that's fairly shocking 278 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:21.920 right there. 279 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:26.359 Yeah, you talk about this Jeffrey Kane. He was the 280 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:29.200 passenger of a shot. But they don't stop, and they 281 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:33.240 don't realize that they've actually killed anyone, despite targeting this 282 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:35.680 car that they used the premise that they had cut 283 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:37.319 him off, so they shot. 284 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:40.000 But every time someone cuts me off in a car, 285 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:44.319 Lord knows, I get out of sniper rifle. Sure sure, yeah, So. 286 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:47.640 They don't really, they don't realize immediately and that they've 287 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:52.359 actually killed this guy till George care the next morning 288 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:55.000 reads the paper. What does he read in the paper, 289 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:56.799 and then what does he decide to do? 290 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:01.640 Well, he has more fics and brains and the other 291 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:07.160 two put together. The next morning, he gets up, he 292 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:09.960 asked to get to work, gets a cab home, butus 293 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:13.559 he's the morning newspaper and he realizes that guests hasn't 294 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:16.640 hadn't missed. He calls the guys at the hotel, told 295 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:18.960 them what happened. They told him to keep his damn 296 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:23.160 mouth shut. Well, he figured if he didn't take immediate 297 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.279 action to protect himself, his life and future were in 298 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:28.720 immediate danger because he was in the car when the 299 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:32.319 gun was fired. Hanging out with teenage the tough guys 300 00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:37.319 is one thing, but murders something else entirely. And that's 301 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:43.640 when he told his boss what happened. Now by Shirk Wittens, 302 00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:46.559 his boss's attorney was there at the same time, and 303 00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:48.839 he told the kid to go to the police and 304 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.920 do it immediately. So he did, and he told the 305 00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:55.720 cops everything and agreed to wear a hidden recorder to 306 00:19:55.839 --> 00:20:00.799 tape incriminating conversations with she lead Gusterson. So oh well, 307 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:03.119 David Carratt thought his son was at work. He was 308 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:08.960 really out with the police getting wired up. Long story short, Uh, 309 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:12.920 he got them on on wire, you know, blatantly talking 310 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:18.960 about killing. Uh, shooting either intentionally or intentionally this uh, 311 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:26.839 Jeffrey Kane Fellow and the media attention on this, as 312 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:31.440 you can imagine, was beyond extensive. It was Anchorage's first 313 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:36.240 drive by shooting and uh, you know what else you 314 00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:40.000 got to talk about up there, you know, Uh, and 315 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:44.920 it became really a big story. 316 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:48.599 You have a scene in this in this story, though 317 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:55.319 again very movie esque, where Chili doesn't was at the 318 00:20:55.400 --> 00:21:00.200 house of Georgeia with his dad, and so they they 319 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:02.200 were there to make sure they were on a premise 320 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:04.920 there that they needed David to help them with their vehicle. 321 00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:08.319 But really was there, you right, that was really basically 322 00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:09.799 there to make sure he didn't write out and at 323 00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:12.240 the same time tell us what was happening while they 324 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:14.200 were there to ensure he didn't rite out. 325 00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:18.160 Yeah, well, you know what, David cared about the zones 326 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:22.720 of work. George was really with the cops. Finally, he 327 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:27.039 calls his dad explaining what happened the night before and 328 00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:30.000 how we planned to help the police. Now, as you say, 329 00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:33.440 when George called his dad, he had no idea that 330 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:37.680 Chili was right there at the house. Chili was obviously 331 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:40.480 there to make sure that George had rolled over on him, 332 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:43.160 and you know, like you said, he made up this 333 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:48.759 nonsense story about anything helped preparing the truck. Well, here's 334 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:51.920 his dad standing there listening to his son tell him 335 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:56.519 about this murder while the perpetrators are standing right there 336 00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:00.240 next to him. So he has to do it best 337 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.960 to cover up what he's saying, what the conversation is about, 338 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:08.400 without tipping off Chili. The George has already gone to 339 00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:12.119 the cops. Now as a precaution, the cops sent George 340 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:17.480 to talk to Doug Augustus, And meanwhile the police contacted 341 00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:21.480 everyone on the fringe of Chili Shrinking gang and got 342 00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:25.640 all of them to wear wires, so everybody's recording everybody else, 343 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:30.200 and the fans to authorize wiretops on everybody in Alaska's phone. 344 00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:33.960 I mean, this comes up later, you know, this comes 345 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:39.440 up after the after the kid puppy dog George is 346 00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:44.799 attempted murder, when his father is killed and his step 347 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:49.240 mom has melted. So you've got this big story, a 348 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:55.960 big trial. Chili and Gustus and are sent to prison 349 00:22:56.039 --> 00:23:02.279 for life. Now this doesn't stop Chili from gritting constantly, 350 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:06.359 and it doesn't stop lizend from being cold. But Chili 351 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.759 puts together a hit list of everybody he's going to 352 00:23:09.799 --> 00:23:12.079 get even with, and he's going to kill him. He's 353 00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:14.400 gonna blow him up. He's gonna do something horrible to him, 354 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:18.480 everyone from the judge to the prosecutor. But most of all, 355 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:22.119 who they most despise, who they most hate, is George, 356 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:26.240 Little George, puppy dog, George, cute kid. They want to 357 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:30.240 kill him more than anything because he rated him out 358 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:35.839 and he did it smartly, needd it immediately. Well, the 359 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:38.160 question is is how do you get a mail bomb, 360 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:40.759 how do you make it, how do you mail it? 361 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:44.640 And how do you kill your victim? Well, they did 362 00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:50.519 everything except the last part. They killed I can't say 363 00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:52.640 the wrong people because it's not right to kill people, 364 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:57.640 but they killed George's father and destroyed the life pretty 365 00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:00.400 darn much of his stepmom. 366 00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:06.359 Michelle. When she was questioned by Anchorage police and by 367 00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:12.000 later by the Inspector's US Postal Inspectors the task Force, 368 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:17.680 she somehow knew and thought and was adamant that it 369 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:21.799 was Augustin is responsible. 370 00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:25.000 Because there was no secret that Gusta said. And chi 371 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:29.359 Lei absolutely hated little George because He was the kid 372 00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:31.960 that you know, was in the back seat when they 373 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:35.640 pulled the trigger. Uh, he'd been with him, you know, 374 00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:40.000 the night before party at the Botel and Uh, they 375 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.400 figured that we bought better make sure George doesn't rat 376 00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:45.839 us out on this. He's got to keep his mouth shut. Well, 377 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:48.119 George didn't keep his mouth shut. He told the truth. 378 00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:56.400 And they, I mean, they didn't blame themselves for what 379 00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:01.119 resulted in this innocent guy's death. They shot on the highway, 380 00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:07.759 but they blamed George for talking about it, and so 381 00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:12.920 their big revenge was to kill him. And the way 382 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:14.359 they're going to endure it is a mail bomb. 383 00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:21.240 You write that two hours after the explosion, the investigative 384 00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:25.640 Task Force was formed. We mentioned in the introduction Anchorage 385 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:28.640 Police Department, US Department of Treasury, Bureau of Alcohol to 386 00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:33.359 back when firearms ATF and Inspector Russell Mabray is task 387 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:37.160 force leader. They spent a couple of weeks at the 388 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:41.599 crime scene to establish that this was an actual What 389 00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:46.400 found materials that you only find at radio shacks, So 390 00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:50.079 they had all kinds of forensic evidence. But they also 391 00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:54.240 you talk about an Inspector Matthew Allen. We all know 392 00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:58.960 that well that most or I think all prison will 393 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:03.240 record on cow call but are reported. 394 00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:08.720 But that doesn't mean anybody who listens to him they're 395 00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:11.720 in lies. The crux of the matter, this guy must 396 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:16.359 have had the patience of two saints, because he sits 397 00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:23.799 and he listens to hours upon hours upon hours of banal, boring, 398 00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:34.240 useless prisoner phone conversations. Chili gustuson not saying anything. I mean, 399 00:26:34.359 --> 00:26:37.119 I gotta tell you I had in my position thanks 400 00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:44.680 to the United States Postal Inspectors. They gave me absolutely everything. 401 00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:50.039