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Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of The Federalist

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Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at The

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Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge.

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As always, you can email the show at radio at

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the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at fbr LST,

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make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and

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of course to the premium version of our website as well.

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Our guest today is Kyle Towns, author of The road

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Less Traveled, Reclaiming Childhood for Christianity. Thank you so much

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for joining us on this edition the Federalist Radio Hour.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I want to start here because this is a fascinating

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topic and I think the book will really be helpful

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to a lot of our listeners who are trying and

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as we all are, struggling to maintain christ filled lives,

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faith centered lives. And I guess what I have seen,

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particularly in the world of political reporting over the last

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few years in this country in general, is this hunger

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from people from Americans in particular. I've spent a long

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time chasing a lot of shadows in their lives, and

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I see this quest for answers, deep rooted answers, and

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I do see a lot more people turning to faith.

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Are we, in your estimation in a time of reawakening,

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particularly in a christ centered life or the leaning toward

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a Christ's centered life in this country?

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Speaker 3: I do think that we are, because I think people

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have seen the dramatic effects of following this secular herd

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of sheep off a cliff, and it has now been

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several generations or more of watching what happens when we

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take in modern ideologies of parenting. We forsake Christian knowledge

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of God's Word to direct our paths. And I think

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that people want to have a change, and sometimes they're

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just not sure how to how to get there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and particularly for parents who are struggling with all

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of the the electronic media, the social media, that digit everything,

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in the brave new information super highway world that we've

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experienced now for a generation plus, it's got to be

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very daunting. I know it is personally as a dad

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of three kids, so it certainly presents its challenges in

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a world that is so opposed to the goodness of God.

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How do you do that as a parent?

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Speaker 2: How do you how do you handle screens or how do.

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Speaker 1: You how do you navigate through this world where of

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screens and of so many you know, messages, the wrong

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messages coming through social media.

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Speaker 3: I think it starts with a knowledge of God's word.

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We have to be in God's word every day. It

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says it's a light to our path, and if we

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don't have that light, we're not going to know which

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way we should be going.

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Speaker 2: I think one of.

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Speaker 3: The biggest misconceptions has been that God doesn't talk about parenting,

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he doesn't talk about child raising, and that has led

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to people feeling that this is just an open field.

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There's really no clear direction for them. They just need

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to kind of grasp at whatever their friends are doing,

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whatever society's saying they should be doing. And if we

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don't keep that primary and central in our lives, then

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we're going to wander away from the past. So that

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that is the first thing, and then the what I

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really champion in the book is looking at evidence, look

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at the facts and reality, the studies, and the statistics,

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and take those into account when you are making your

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parenting decisions, because there are clear consequences for a lot

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of these things. Screen time would be a great example

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just because something's done by a lot of people, it

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doesn't mean that you also have.

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Speaker 2: To do that as well.

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Speaker 3: You can choose other options and other ways of raising

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your children.

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Speaker 1: Yes, your new book is really driven. It's not just

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pontificating on you know, or talking about your experiences. It's

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about your experiences through a biblical lens, through a New

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Testament lens. Describe how you went about crafting the book

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that way.

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Speaker 3: So a little background about me that has it's pertinent

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for this discussion is that I am the wife of

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a military veteran. So we spent a number of years

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going around the United States, traveling and living in different places.

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We only spent about a year and a half or

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two years in each location. And there were a couple

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things that really struck me as we moved around. And

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the first was the total deterioration of our moral code

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in our society and how that has gone all over

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the United States. It's not just in one pocket or another,

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it's everywhere, and right has become wrong, good has become evil,

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and vice versa. It's just flipped the other was actually

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seen firsthand that the statistics that show that the youth

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are growing up and leaving our church is real that

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time after time after time going into churches and seeing

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the white haired only or the very young, but not

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seeing the twenty year olds, not seeing the thirty year olds.

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And this is mostly in Protestant churches. I can't really

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speak to Catholic churches, but it's a real problem in

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Protestantism especially. And then the third thing that really drove

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me to write this book was that we met a

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lot of Christian families along the way from different backgrounds,

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and it was the complete secularization of the Christian family unit.

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Speaker 2: The fact that if you were to put.

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Speaker 3: A Christian family, the average Christian family, next to the

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average non Christian family, they would be virtually indistinguishable. And

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that is from parenting ideologies, to priorities, their view of childhood,

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their children's knowledge of Scripture. In every way, they were

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just indistinguishable. And so I was looking for someone to

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speak out in a holistic way about childhood that doesn't

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just deal with spiritually, but deals with mentally and physically,

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and does that based on reality. I think there's too

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many There are too many parenting books out there which

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discuss parenting in terms of experiences and emotions, and there

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are a lot of parents like me that don't want

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to hear that. To make decisions, we don't want to

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make decisions based on someone's opinion. We want to make

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decisions that impact our children for life based on something

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more solid than that. And I waited. I put this

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off for years to write this book. I didn't feel

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up to the task. I was busy raising my children

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and moving around. But I finally felt so compelled by

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the absence, by this void of speaking out on this topic,

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that I felt I had to pick up my pen

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so to speak and write on it. And something I

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want to say about that is I think that we

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notice a lot of problems in our society. We notice

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problems in maybe our political system and the ideologies there.

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We notice problems in higher education. We know it's problems

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in the judicial system, all these things, and it's like

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looking at a tree and talking about the rotted branches

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and not understanding that this comes down the root. This

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is a root problem, and the root problem is how

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we're raising our children. Because those children are growing up

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and entering the judicial system, they are entering politics, they

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are entering academia, and they are bringing with them a

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continuation of the way that they have been raised. They

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don't just magically change at eighteen and become you know,

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critically thinking, god fearing, hard working young adults. They just don't,

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you know, they continue in the way that they are going.

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So it is vital that we talk about childhood, especially

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early childhood, when they are so formative and malleable, and

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we take advantage of this time instead of treating it

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in sort of the second way, where you view early

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childhood as an empty space, a period of time where

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kids can't really do that much, they can't really understand

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that much, don't expect anything of them, but just wait

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till they get to school age and then you can

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start doing something with them. And I'm saying no childhood,

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early childhood especially, but all childhood is such an opportunity.

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I mean, children are malleable, they're formative, they're intelligent, they're excitable,

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and we need to take advantage of that as Christians, no.

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Speaker 1: Doubt about it. And that is a for those who

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really truly believe that there's you know, the kids just

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sit there basically for the first few years of their life.

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That's not only dangerous, that has I think led to

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all kinds of problems you talk about, you know, our

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judicial system, you talk about our political system. But two men,

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any of our young people are entering the criminal justice

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system because of a lack of a moral compass in

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the home, because of a lack of a christ centered

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meaning in the home. And I think about it, Is

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it any it's sad? Was it any surprise that we

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have seen the population of younger people absolutely decline in

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the Christian Church, particularly when we take a look at

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two now three generations of this movement in the public

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school system. How much is the public school system responsible

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for this getting away from a faith rooted life in

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our American families.

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Speaker 3: I think they are part of the problem, but I

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shy away from placing too much blame there because I

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think what we need to understand is as parents, if

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you're putting your child in the school system, in a

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public school system, then we need to understand that we

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don't get out of our teaching and training as parents

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by doing that. We are still the ones responsible for

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their moral formation, and we are still the ones responsible

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with ensuring that they know reality for what it is

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that they know the truth. And so it's true. Education

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massively forms the character of a child. I mean, it

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is incredibly important, and I think we need to value

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it a lot more than we do because of how

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much it does form children. But the modern educational system,

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the tenants and what it's built on, its philosophies are

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all pretty antagonistic towards a Christian viewpoint. We've lost the concept,

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for example, of objective truth and things that become incredibly subjective.

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We have become our own god, so to speak, the

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arbiter of truth, and this is very poisonous. There is

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objective truth, obviously, and all truth leads to God because

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He's a God of truth. So when you lose that

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and you start putting other ideologies in its place, other

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people's priorities, you know, the governments and whatnot, of course

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it's going to impact and affect children. But the responsibility

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of this is very much on the parents.

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Speaker 1: No doubt about it. As Harry S. Truman once said,

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the buck stops here, and it definitely stops with the parents.

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We have seen that, and perhaps we'll talk a little

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bit more about that later on in our conversation, but

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we have seen parents taking back control of their parental rights.

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That's been a very encouraging and successful movement in this

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country over the last few years, and would like to

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see more of that. But let me ask you this.

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You worked in public education, sure for a number of years,

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and you decided to walk away from that. In fact,

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you got involved in, you know, in classical education. How

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much of your work your experience in public education informed

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your experiences and informed how you approached writing this book.

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Speaker 3: So when I entered the teaching profession, I was twenty

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years old, fresh out of college, and I taught. I

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got a job in Inner City, DC, teaching sixth, seventh,

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and eighth grade. I was on crutches at the time.

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I was just this tiny little girl going into this environment.

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I had no idea what to expect.

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Speaker 1: That's a tough road going starting out being a fresh,

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fresh faced teacher on crutches in an icy school.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and I had never experienced the things that I

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experienced there. I'd never had someone yell at me from

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my face. I'd never witnessed fist fights. I It's just

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it was. It was a huge learning curve from there

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I did. I did take away some good things. I

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definitely learned a lot about classroom management. But I saw

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the deep need these children have for discipline and structure.

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For I mean, their home lives were a wreck, and

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obviously that had every single bit of impact on them

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as they were struggling to go through the educational system.

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And I moved from there to the Virginia Fredericksburg area

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to teach in middle school again sixth, seventh and eighth grade.

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And what really influenced me from my time there. I

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did really enjoy teaching the children. I loved connecting with them,

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but it was seen behind the doors, or behind the curtain,

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if you will. So I got to see that this

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idea of the specialist is kind of a facade.

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Speaker 2: It's not true.

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Speaker 3: So when you say, well, I'm not smart enough to

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teach my children because I need to send them to

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where they're going to have a specialist, you know, in

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elementary and middle school, what actually happens is the teacher

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who's teaching sixth grade math is told, guess what you're

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teaching next year. You're doing seventh grade English in eighth

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grade science.

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Speaker 2: So what does that guy do.

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Speaker 3: He goes and he reads the book and he follows

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the book, which is exactly what you do as a

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homeschool parent. Or you know other teachers do. In other environments,

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you're given your curriculum. Sometimes you're allowed to create your curriculum,

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but you have to follow it. So it's kind of

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a if you read, you can succeed kind of thing

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where they just do their best. It's a lot of

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learning in the moment, you know. I noticed with teaching,

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it wasn't my degree that really prepared me. It was

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experiencing it. It was just going through it. So it

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took away the mistiaque. It made me see teaching through

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a different lens, one that anybody can do it. You

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can do it, and you are capable. And then I

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chose to leave the teaching profession because I wanted to

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raise our.

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Speaker 2: Children, and I definitely.

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Speaker 3: Feel like that was the right choice, but not something that,

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you know, I didn't feel like it was a wholly

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negative experience. I think I took away some good things

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from being in the public school.

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Speaker 4: Have you been a victim of affinity fraud? The watch

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and how it affects your wallet. Although someone could look

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like you, talk like you relate to you. Don't be

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or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like it you were tested by fire in

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so many ways in those schools. I'm curious what you

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think about the parental choice movement in America. It really

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has grown explosively over the last thirty years in this country.

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Is that a way to move beyond the generations that

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we've seen of, in some cases, downright depravity in our

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public school systems.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a great option, a great thing for

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parents to embrace because we have a unique situation in

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America where we're able to have a lot of say

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in our children's education. So it's great to see parents

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stepping up to that and taking advantage of it. And

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I know there's a big increase in the homeschool movement,

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charter schools, etc. People are really looking for alternatives because

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they see such a systemic problem within the public schools.

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Speaker 1: Our guest today is Kyle Towns, author of The Road

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Less Traveled, reclaiming Childhood for Christianity. It is soon set

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for release, correct it is. You're just about there. It

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is released released, Yes, yeah, excellent, And you can find

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that just about anywhere.

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Speaker 3: Huh yes, Amazon or at the publisher at wiffinstock dot com.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely there is because your book is so centered in

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the New Testament, in the Bible's teachings. I want your

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take on where we stand on Matthew eighteen six. But

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whoso shall cause one of these little ones who believe

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in me to fail, it were better for him that

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a millstone were hung about his neck, and that he

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were in the depth of the sea. There are a

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lot of millstones to go around out there. In my

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humble opinion, there really are.

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Speaker 3: And I think one of the central ones is the screen.

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I'm not against screens. I don't think that there's somehow

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evil in and of themselves. I think they could be

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used to great good, and we're using a screen right now,

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and they can be very good for education and many things.

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But it is definitely a massive problem for children in

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terms of talk about millstones influence. Right as Christians, we

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need to really care about the content of what's going

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into our children's hearts and minds because that forms their character.

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And children right now in America are spending exorbitant amount

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of time on their screens. As you know, eight to

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twelve year olds are spending an average of five and

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a half hours a day on entertainment entertainment through their screens,

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which means if you were to compile those hours in

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a year, they are spending about two and a half

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months of twenty four hours on their screens of their

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life a year. And it gets worse, you know, as

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they get older. Thirteen to eighteen year olds are spending

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about over eight and a half hours a day, which

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is over four months of their life twenty four hours

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on a screen. I mean, these are not small numbers.

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These are massively impactful numbers. And then you look at

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the at what they're seeing on the screens. You know,

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the average American child is witnessing forty thousand murders by

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the time they're eighteen and two hundred thousand acts of violence.

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And that's not even that's not even going into the

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video games and the situation with that where you have

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ninety seven percent of teens are playing video games, and

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two thirds of those video games are violent according to

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Pew Research. So these things are shaping our children and

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we have to acknowledge that and realize is that this

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is a moral issue, something that we have to pay

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close attention to. And you know, screens have a variety.

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I call it a three prong put three prong issue. Right,

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there's a physical consequence to just sitting there for hours

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a day. Obviously, obesity is kind of an obvious one.

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But then there's the mental and the spiritual. And we

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haven't even gotten into the mental effects on children of

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screens and the widespread developmental delays, the fact that it

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prevents brain regions from connecting to one another, and it

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does that by lowering the microstructural integrity of brain white

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matter tracts, which means it basically children can't think as well.

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It's basically handicapping children mentally, which is a big deal.

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And it causes depression and anxiety, poor sleep.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the list just goes on and on and on. ADHD.

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Speaker 3: These are all well documented. You can go look up

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the studies yourself, and there are Also some of them

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are in my book from you know, well established sources

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like JAMA Pediatrics, which is a monthly peer reviewed medical

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journal published by the American Medical Association, places like that,

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And you can go read these studies for yourself and

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see that it's it's not even you could just say

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one issue. It's not even the moral issue. It's just

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it's a multifaceted problem that we really need to take

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seriously and realize that, yes, when we're talking about a

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millstone around the neck, screens would be one of the

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major issues that we need to address within the Christian

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family unit.

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Speaker 1: And it became very institutionalized, didn't it. During COVID. That's good,

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we had you know, so many tens of millions of

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kids not only on screens for their education, you know,

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out of fear or whatever. But then it's so much

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time away from you know, and that's where parents really

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really had to come in and really be in there,

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and you know, their kids will try to get away

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with what they can get away with, of course, and

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you know, that became a very difficult moment for a

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lot of parents. You know, you know, I don't want

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to be a hypocrite in this area. I have struggled

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with that as a parent too, weighing screen time for

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the kids and very much worried about what's what's out there.

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And I know I'm not alone. I know there are

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parents out there. So so how do you do that?

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How do you you know, obviously as a parent, you

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are again the last you should be the last word

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on this stuff. But it's a challenge. How do you say,

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put away the screen and let us get away from

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that and stay away from that as much as humanly possible.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think, first of all, you can't look for

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what other people are doing. I mean, you know there

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is there is, there is one person you are not

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looking to please man, but God. There is one person

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or God who is the one that.

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Speaker 2: You answer to. And that is it.

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Speaker 3: So don't look for what is my neighbor doing, what

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are my friends doing? Well, gee, all these other kids

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are doing X, Y and z. But take a hard

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look at what your child is doing and with screens,

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and what is it that you think is the appropriate.

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Speaker 2: Use of them? And then you have to be willing.

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I think.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Dobson, if I'm not mistaken, says that if your

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child wants a fight, don't disappoint them. And that means

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that if you sometimes you have to put on your

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big girl pants or your big boy pants, and you

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have to say, I am the parent, and even though

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I know that this is going to be a fight

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or this is going to be a problem and difficult,

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I know what's best for you. And you may not

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understand that right now, and I wish you did, but

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you don't. And I'm doing this for your good. So

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I am putting a limitation on this. I am telling

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you this is how we're going to use screens in

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our family. For my family, for example, we use it

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for education. I have older children using it for some courses,

404
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and we do it sometimes for entertainment. A vetted movie

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that we know well right you can put on. But

406
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I'm not letting them just surf the internet the dark

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alley of the Internet and kind of do whatever they

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want on their entering the realm of social media. And

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I'm not doing that because I know reality and what

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it is out there, and it's not worth the price.

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I'm not willing to put my child on, you know,

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the alter of free time for me, on the altar

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of you know, everybody else is doing it, it's just

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not worth it. They're too easily formed at this age.

415
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You know, there was a fascinating study I have in

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my book on social pressure and how much more easily

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influenced children are the younger they are.

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Speaker 2: So when they're exposed to.

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Speaker 3: Whether it's ideologies, body image stuff, sexualization, whatever it is, violence,

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those things are, they're not influencing the same way that

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they are for people in their thirties, forties, and fifties,

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and you know these this is this is influencing them

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on a fundamental level. So when we know this about children,

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we need to make our decisions for our family based

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on that and just take one day at a time.

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And we're all sinners. This isn't about creating some kind

427
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of unrealistic expectation. I try to make that clear in

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the book. This is about the recognition of reality, the

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recognition that sin matters, it impacts the heart, and that

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we are just going day by day, minute by minute,

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with the Lord's help, attempting through him to raise our

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children up in Him and resting confidently in that we're

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not going to do it perfectly. We're not sinless, We're

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not going to have sinless children, and that's not the point.

435
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The point is simply that out of all the people

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in the entire universe, the Lord who knit together that

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child in the womb, the Lord who knew them from

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the beginning of time, who knew all your sins and

439
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,039
your insecurities and your faults, he picked you to raise

440
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that person made in His image. That is an awesome responsibility,

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and only to do so for a limited period of time.

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And so we want to just use that too, you know,

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to the glory of God. We want to use that

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time wisely. And that's the point.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, that is

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its foundation, is a Christ centered life. A life of

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love and love of your children comes with limits. It

448
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comes with making sure that they understand that it's not

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just your love, your parental love you're talking about, It's

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about God's love. And that's that life question is so essential,

451
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more essential than ever in a society that is beset

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with death, so many abortions, so many people choosing abortions,

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so many people rallying around on abortion on demand in

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this country, so many people stealing those beautiful lives, How

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do we get to a Christ centered life, which is

456
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so much like I said, so much more important today

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in a world surrounded by so much senseless death.

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Speaker 3: Well, so I would say to that when we're going

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back into childhood, that we have prioritized teaching children Bible

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00:28:35,759 --> 00:28:40,400
stories as if that kind of does the job. But

461
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there's a specific promise with teaching them the Word of God,

462
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which is that faith comes from hearing and hearing from

463
00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:47,519
the Word of God. They need to be hearing the

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words of their Lord from infancy, they need to be

465
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hearing it from the second that you're listening to the broadcast.

466
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They need to be hearing it daily. And the reason

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that matters, and it has to do with your question,

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is because we are not bad the physical world. We

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00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,519
are in a spiritual battle, and that is very clear

470
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in scripture. We are fighting against the demons and the

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unseen world, right of the spiritual world. And the Word

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of God is a sword, is what it says. So

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we want our children to have that sword, that metaphorical

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sword to fight the spiritual battles because they are going

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into this world that is first of all, ideologically flipped,

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and this world that does.

477
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Speaker 2: Have a huge it's obsession with death.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we actually uphold it you know, we celebrate

479
00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:46,440
it in a variety of ways, including and most especially

480
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,319
with abortion, and so the best way for us to

481
00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:55,240
combat that is to equip our children from a young

482
00:29:55,279 --> 00:29:59,000
age with knowledge about human life, knowledge about who takes it,

483
00:29:59,039 --> 00:30:01,640
who gives it, the knowledge of the value of every

484
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,119
single human being. Because if you know Scripture, you know

485
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,440
that you are a person made in the image of

486
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,319
God from conception. So instead of hearing this kind of

487
00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:17,720
thing from a parent or a teacher or a book,

488
00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:19,960
it has a lot more weight when it's coming from

489
00:30:20,039 --> 00:30:24,000
God himself, and it's powerful. So we want to make

490
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,920
sure that our children are internalizing this from the very

491
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,319
beginning so that they grow up incredibly rooted in that

492
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,519
and are able to go out into that world that

493
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:38,079
is filled with death and an obsession with it and

494
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,799
abortion and all these things, and they're able to affect

495
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,839
change positively because not only do they have the word

496
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,240
of God as their weapon against the false ideologies that

497
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,839
are coming at them in viewpoints, but they are also

498
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,480
able to think logically and critically, And that's where education

499
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,359
comes into all of this, and wanting to help our

500
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,880
children form their minds so that they are are able

501
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,440
to go out there and do every good deed that

502
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,440
God has in store for them.

503
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,119
Speaker 1: We're all children of God, we are all made in

504
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,519
the image of God. And the Bible is filled with

505
00:31:10,559 --> 00:31:14,519
plenty of stories of children who have turned away from God,

506
00:31:14,759 --> 00:31:18,160
who have left the flock. And there is of course

507
00:31:18,279 --> 00:31:22,319
the story of the good Shepherd who goes after leaves

508
00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:25,759
the ninety nine to save the one. How do parents

509
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,000
deal with a child? And so many parents in our

510
00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:33,319
society are dealing with this, a child who has left

511
00:31:33,359 --> 00:31:39,440
the flock, who has left God and family, and.

512
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: You're talking to a child that has left the home. I imagine

513
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:43,599
I'm talking about both.

514
00:31:43,759 --> 00:31:47,359
Speaker 1: Actually, there are parents who are experienced this with the

515
00:31:47,759 --> 00:31:51,160
kids in junior high getting into the wrong groups, maybe

516
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:56,279
getting involved in drugs, or you know, making a lot

517
00:31:56,319 --> 00:31:59,400
of bad decisions on that front. A lot of parents

518
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:04,039
have struggled this or when indeed the child leaves the home.

519
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,160
You know, I'm in a position right now. My wife

520
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,960
and I are Our oldest is heading off to college,

521
00:32:09,119 --> 00:32:13,279
and we've tried to instill instill the values that we

522
00:32:13,319 --> 00:32:16,680
share in this family. But you know, he's going to

523
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,960
be out there among a lot of different people. How

524
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,519
do you make sure that you know that the child

525
00:32:25,319 --> 00:32:30,480
is not the prodigal son. If you will, it's not

526
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,200
out there whatever age they are.

527
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 3: Well, I think there's two different issues here because you're

528
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,799
talking about a child under the roof of a parent

529
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,559
versus one that's not, and I think those are incredibly

530
00:32:43,559 --> 00:32:44,680
different situations.

531
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,359
Speaker 2: We need to not feel.

532
00:32:47,039 --> 00:32:49,839
Speaker 3: Powerless as parents when we have our children under our roof.

533
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,240
And I think that is an incredibly secular, modern ideological

534
00:32:54,359 --> 00:32:59,039
viewpoint that says, basically, you're up a creek if your

535
00:32:59,119 --> 00:33:03,920
kid is you know, under your roof and getting in

536
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,839
with the wrong crowds, they're doing drugs. There's just nothing

537
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,279
you can really do about that. But you're their parent

538
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,480
and they're under your roof, they are still so to speak,

539
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,920
you know, I mean legally right, you are the one

540
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,359
responsible for them. So that is entirely different than once

541
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:28,200
the children leave the house, in my opinion. So I

542
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,559
think that there's many stories out there actually of this

543
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,759
type of thing where you know, there's suicide issues in school.

544
00:33:35,759 --> 00:33:38,759
So this is an example where a child starts, they're bullied,

545
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,400
and they start getting incredibly depressed, and their parent tries

546
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,279
to talk to the school about it and do what

547
00:33:46,319 --> 00:33:49,640
they can, leaving their children in that environment, and I

548
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,839
would say that is the time when nothing else matters

549
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,359
at this point, I mean, nothing matters more than getting

550
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,880
your child out of that environment. That has got to

551
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,480
be the absolute top priority because it is their very life.

552
00:34:06,519 --> 00:34:08,599
And if your child's involved in drugs in a certain

553
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:12,000
environment with certain friends, it has to be the number

554
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:15,480
one purpose of your life to get them out of

555
00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:20,760
that environment and put them someplace else. And sometimes that

556
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:25,480
requires extreme sacrifice to do. And I'm not negating that,

557
00:34:25,599 --> 00:34:28,639
but it is it's imperative.

558
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:29,559
Speaker 2: And I think.

559
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 3: We've entered into a culture where it used to be

560
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,760
that parental sacrifice was valued and upheld. When one would

561
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,760
sacrifice their livelihood or their time or whatever it was

562
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,199
their life for their child, it was a virtue. But

563
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,920
it's almost been flipped where it's seen as almost more

564
00:34:45,039 --> 00:34:48,280
virtuous to stick to your guns and could get goond

565
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,840
doing what you do and your kid will figure it out.

566
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:54,039
But I don't think that that has proven a very

567
00:34:54,079 --> 00:34:56,239
wise course of action. Now it's different when the child

568
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,880
leaves the home, and that is where obviously you don't

569
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,079
have the same impact and effect. And so the best

570
00:35:05,159 --> 00:35:08,639
I think that you're able to do. Your vocation at

571
00:35:08,639 --> 00:35:11,000
that point is to be in constant prayer for your

572
00:35:11,079 --> 00:35:15,079
child and to assist them as much as you can

573
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,639
with reorienting their sight back to the Cross. And again,

574
00:35:19,679 --> 00:35:21,800
this is kind of why early childhood is important, because

575
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,599
we want them to be in a cycle of repentance

576
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:27,199
and forgiveness that's natural for them, that's normal, And to

577
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,960
have a relationship with Jesus Christ because he is their

578
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,079
one true shepherd, He is their salvation, and we want

579
00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:36,559
to have that established and Lord willing it will carry through.

580
00:35:37,079 --> 00:35:39,519
Speaker 1: I think you said one of the most powerful words here,

581
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,719
the p word prayer. How essential is that in getting

582
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,239
to a Christ centered childhood, a Christ's centered life.

583
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I brought it up before.

584
00:35:53,679 --> 00:35:57,079
Speaker 1: But I'm curious what you think about where all of

585
00:35:57,119 --> 00:36:00,679
this is going, particularly as parents across the country say

586
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:06,199
enough is enough. Whether it's in public schools or community libraries.

587
00:36:06,599 --> 00:36:10,960
They're saying, no, I don't want the transgender movement, you know,

588
00:36:11,199 --> 00:36:15,199
in my kids' faces. I don't want you know, this

589
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:22,119
whole so called inclusion movement in you know, in liberal

590
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:28,440
politics and culture invading you know, my my nine year

591
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:35,239
old's life. I don't want content that is sexualized in

592
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,800
the hands of my children in schools. People are speaking up,

593
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,920
they're speaking out, and they're taking power. Where do you

594
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,239
see all of that going in this country?

595
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 3: I think if we don't draw it back to the home,

596
00:36:52,599 --> 00:36:55,519
then it's not going to go super far. We have

597
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,320
but if we if we do, and parents are willing

598
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,880
to say, I'm going to make changes within my own home.

599
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,639
And not only we want to try to do changes

600
00:37:06,679 --> 00:37:11,079
within the schools and keep the trans ideology out, but

601
00:37:11,159 --> 00:37:14,039
we also need to be doing that within our own home.

602
00:37:14,079 --> 00:37:16,159
Speaker 2: That's really where the revolution is going to take place.

603
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 3: If we cannot bring it back to like we talked

604
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,760
about having boundaries with our children and such, then they're

605
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,199
going to be exposed to all of this anyway. The

606
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,239
effects are going to be happening anyway, and so it

607
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,480
can almost serve as a distraction where we think we're

608
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:36,880
dealing with this problem because we're picketing, so to speak.

609
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,400
I mean, we're out there, you know, talking about it,

610
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,599
but we need to make sure that we're also willing

611
00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:43,440
to roll up our sleeves and do the dirty, hard

612
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,239
work ourselves in the home environment. And I think if

613
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:48,880
that happens if we get to a point where we

614
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,079
say enough is enough, we know that this is not working.

615
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,599
Speaker 2: We need to go back to basics, you.

616
00:37:54,519 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 3: Know, scrub all this that we have been believing is

617
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,119
the right way to go with child raising. That I

618
00:38:02,159 --> 00:38:05,159
think we're headed in a good direction.

619
00:38:05,679 --> 00:38:09,039
Speaker 1: How much is this from the loss over time of

620
00:38:09,199 --> 00:38:13,559
at least the idea the concept of spare the rod,

621
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:18,599
spoil the child. I'm not talking necessarily about physical discipline.

622
00:38:18,599 --> 00:38:21,440
I'm just talking in general about discipline. And the Lord

623
00:38:21,519 --> 00:38:25,920
calls us as we have been disciplined under the Lord

624
00:38:26,519 --> 00:38:31,199
for time, and calls upon us to make sure our

625
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,800
children understand that. And that's a foundational thing.

626
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,199
Speaker 3: I think we don't talk about it enough within the

627
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,440
Church and within Christendom, and in America at least. And

628
00:38:39,519 --> 00:38:43,960
it is so incredibly important, both the discipline that we

629
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,440
receive from the Lord. And it says if you are

630
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,960
not disciplined, it says everyone is disciplined, then you are

631
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,599
illegitimate sons and not heirs. No discipline is pleasant at

632
00:38:52,639 --> 00:38:54,840
the time, but painful, but it produces a harvest of

633
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,360
righteousness for those who have been trained by it. There

634
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,920
are so many incredibly numerous. There are so many verses

635
00:39:02,039 --> 00:39:06,000
about the Lord disciplining us. And if he is love,

636
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:12,119
then disciplining is loving. He does it consistently, and so

637
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,239
we want to understand that when we are disciplining our

638
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,760
children and being watchful over their sin, that is being loving.

639
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:23,079
And if society says that that isn't love, we can know, well,

640
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,119
they don't have an accurate view of what love really is.

641
00:39:27,559 --> 00:39:32,159
And along with that, along with discipline, is the importance

642
00:39:32,199 --> 00:39:37,880
of instilling through discipline self discipline, because what we want

643
00:39:38,039 --> 00:39:42,039
is for our children to be in that battle within

644
00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:45,960
themselves and to be accustomed to it. And I think

645
00:39:46,039 --> 00:39:50,280
we have unfortunately left all of it, the self discipline,

646
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,639
the discipline of children, discussion of being disciplined by the Lord,

647
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,079
all of it, and it's become this dirty topic, a

648
00:39:58,159 --> 00:40:03,320
topic that just is not palatable anymore, and so we've

649
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,760
left it by the wayside. But it is an essential

650
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:12,400
component of being a Christian because we have sinful hearts.

651
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,880
We are wayward, you know, sheep, We wander away all

652
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,840
the time, and we have got to be brought back

653
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,519
for our own good. And so we want to value

654
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,760
discipline in its various forms and to understand that it

655
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,039
goes together as well with forgiveness of course, so when

656
00:40:30,079 --> 00:40:33,760
you discipline your child, there's immediate and complete forgiveness that

657
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,920
needs to be there every single time. But we don't

658
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,519
want to treat it as some kind of dirty word

659
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,800
or thing that we want to stay away from. We

660
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,519
want to do this only solely because it's for the

661
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:48,320
good of our children.

662
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: And grace obviously is absolutely central to all of this,

663
00:40:54,599 --> 00:40:56,920
and I know absolutely you spell that out in your book.

664
00:40:57,119 --> 00:41:00,519
Final question for you, speaking of your book, you offer

665
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:05,440
a lot of teaching you offer centered on, you know,

666
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,760
biblical teaching in your book. If you could you offer

667
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,119
a lot of advice, If you could offer parents one

668
00:41:15,559 --> 00:41:18,079
key bit of advice to take away from your book,

669
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:18,880
what would it be.

670
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:27,559
Speaker 3: Value your children's faith, believe in their abilities, and take

671
00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:31,440
advantage of this time because it is fleeting and it

672
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:32,880
is incredibly valuable.

673
00:41:35,679 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, is it ever fleeting. I told you

674
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,599
before that our oldest is off to college here in

675
00:41:41,639 --> 00:41:43,639
a matter of days, and.

676
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,079
Speaker 2: Very exciting it is.

677
00:41:45,159 --> 00:41:48,039
Speaker 1: It's so exciting, But it is also a moment of

678
00:41:49,199 --> 00:41:54,480
you know, as I mentioned, anxiety and hope and all

679
00:41:54,599 --> 00:41:57,679
kinds of feelings that you experience, and I know many

680
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,679
of our listeners have already experienced or about to experience it,

681
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:06,679
and it is quite a time in their lives, and

682
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,760
it's quite a time in the lives of parents. What

683
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:15,599
you hope ultimately is that what you have done over

684
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,960
the first seventeen eighteen years of their life is done

685
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,000
exactly what you're talking about in this book, and still

686
00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:26,760
in them that they are loved not just by you,

687
00:42:27,559 --> 00:42:33,760
but their Father in heaven, and hope that he always

688
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,079
and will keep them in his good careers.

689
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 3: I would say that one last thing with that is

690
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,320
that it does say that raise up a child in

691
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:41,639
the way he should go, and when he is old,

692
00:42:41,679 --> 00:42:43,280
he will not depart from it. And that is something

693
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,679
I cling to because I do think there is a

694
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,440
promise in there that when you have raised them up

695
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,880
and you're a sinner and you're not doing it perfectly

696
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,760
and God doesn't work through perfect you're raising them up

697
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,159
in the way they should go, then even if they stray,

698
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,960
you can bring that up to God that verse and

699
00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:05,239
hold him to it. They will come back and trust

700
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,480
in that that they are going to come back and

701
00:43:07,679 --> 00:43:09,519
be as fervent in prayer as we talked about as

702
00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:13,679
Saint Augustine's mom, Monica was right where she just fervently,

703
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,360
fervently prayed for her son. And you don't know what

704
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,519
your child is called to do in the future, and

705
00:43:20,079 --> 00:43:22,559
what beautiful things are in store for them, and so

706
00:43:22,599 --> 00:43:24,719
we wait and hope and trust in the Lord's mercy

707
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:25,079
and love.

708
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: Wasn't that the make my heart chase Lord? Just not yet? Yes,

709
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,000
I think there's plenty of that in the human condition,

710
00:43:34,039 --> 00:43:37,760
the human experience. Thanks to my guest today, Kyle Town's,

711
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:43,320
author of The Road Less Traveled, Reclaiming Childhood for Christianity,

712
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,360
you've been listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour.

713
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,519
I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll

714
00:43:50,519 --> 00:43:53,519
be back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of

715
00:43:53,559 --> 00:44:03,119
freedom and anxious for the fray. Who told you