WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:09.359 Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bulbo. These guys 2 00:00:09.400 --> 00:00:13.160 are your favorites, so like to subscribe and raid it, 3 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:16.359 lip Star, shoot and. 4 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:25.320 Righteous on Yesterday and listening watching lim always keep its watching. 5 00:00:26.600 --> 00:00:30.399 And now your hosts Cliff Berrickman and James booble. 6 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:35.920 Fay, Hey, bobs, what's happening to Mannamouccho just had fireballs 7 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:40.200 mass funeral yesterday? Oh really? How was that? 8 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:42.200 That was cool? You know it was a more sob mean, 9 00:00:42.280 --> 00:00:44.960 the celebration of life was awesome. It was like a 10 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:48.119 real celebration, like fun party. And then you know the 11 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:51.880 funeral mass was a lot more you know, it's a 12 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:54.320 it's a more solemn occasion for sure. 13 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:55.119 Yeah. 14 00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:56.399 Yeah, how's your mom holding up? 15 00:00:57.079 --> 00:01:00.439 She's really she's really bummed. She's she's taking it tough, 16 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:05.640 but she's she's pretty resilient, she's pretty mentally tough. So's 17 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:07.280 she's just got to go on. 18 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:14.439 Yeah, man, raising the bobs will make it resilient, better, perish, 19 00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:17.400 very good. Well, Yeah, I don't have much to say 20 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:19.079 of it this past week. You know, I've been out 21 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:21.840 to the wood still everything snowed in. Hopefully next week 22 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:24.959 we'll get out. But so you got that going on. 23 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:26.760 I pretty much have nothing, but we also have a 24 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:29.159 fantastic guest on the line. Maybe we should hop over there. 25 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:31.680 Oh yeah, bring them in, Bobes. 26 00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:34.920 All right, folks, tonight we got visiting with us Steve Coles, 27 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:38.480 the squatch Detective. He's a famous hoax buster of the 28 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:42.159 Bigfoot variety. He's a private investigator, and he's got some 29 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:44.359 new books coming out. So welcome aboard, Steve. 30 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:46.840 Steve Man, thanks so much for coming back on Bigfoot 31 00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:48.239 and Beyond with all of us. 32 00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:50.760 Well, thanks for having me. It's my honor to be on. 33 00:01:50.920 --> 00:01:53.200 Guys. Hey, Steve, thanks for joining us. Man. 34 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:56.920 Hey, Bobs, what's going on? Good to hear from you. 35 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:58.280 You too, looking forward to hear what you got to say. 36 00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:01.120 Yeah, you're in all sorts of right now, Steve, I mean, 37 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:03.799 my gosh, you have three books coming out, you're doing 38 00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:06.680 all sorts of analyzes with AI. I mean, and plus 39 00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:08.360 you're a real you're kind of a squatchy guy to 40 00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:09.719 begin with. So where do you want to start? What 41 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:10.520 do you want to talk about? 42 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:10.879 First? 43 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:13.960 Well, let's let's talk about the books that are coming out. 44 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:16.319 That probably be a good, good place, because that was 45 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:17.479 really the start of. 46 00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:21.039 It, and you have three books coming out. All of 47 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:23.000 them are going to be released in the next month 48 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:24.800 or two in March in April. Is that correct? 49 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:27.919 Yep, I got one coming out March first, the other 50 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:30.560 one will be coming out March fifteenth, and the last 51 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:31.879 one will be April fifth. 52 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:34.680 Whoa what do you think, Bobs? Who should be a 53 00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:35.599 chronological order? 54 00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:38.639 Yeah? That sounds good to be. This is exciting. It's 55 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:42.639 it's like a Netflix mini series or you know, every 56 00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:44.719 week you get a new one. Youdo, you get all excited. 57 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:48.759 So okay, So Steve, the first book, what is it 58 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:50.120 called and what is it about? 59 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:54.479 The first book coming out is called Bigfoot of Scientific Examination. 60 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:58.840 And basically what I did was I crafted a book 61 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:04.960 written of four forty nine separate scientific papers, abstracts, data, 62 00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:09.560 and they're broken up into basically three types of sections. 63 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:16.520 The biological and physiological papers, social science papers, and case studies. 64 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:21.120 And well, actually section four is furthering research and there's 65 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:25.360 papers on how to how we can further our Bigfoot research. 66 00:03:26.120 --> 00:03:31.120 But they, you know, the biological section, you know, contains 67 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:37.039 papers such as the prim primate Hypothesis, hummin and Evolution 68 00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:42.159 and Implications talks about, you know, scientific paper on olafactory 69 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:47.759 capabilities and nesting behaviors and vision stuff like that. The 70 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:52.639 social science papers talk about things like the cultural impact 71 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:59.439 of bigfoot, bigfoot like in religious and spiritual context, cognitive bias, 72 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:03.960 media influence of the seventies and eighties, and one of 73 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:07.879 the more important ones the failure of mainstream science to 74 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:11.960 examine the Bigfoot mystery. And then in section four, I 75 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:16.079 do a bunch of case studies on like doctor Hendr 76 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:22.240 Fahrenbach's status report, the Skookum cast. I do a study 77 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:25.959 on a case study of Ray Wallace and stuff like 78 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:29.720 the hairy Man Glyfts three showed tracks, and you know, 79 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:31.160 I take a look at some of that, and of 80 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:36.600 course furthering research, I talk about, you know, ways to 81 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:42.480 proper locate the species, sound strategies, evidence collection, and you know, 82 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:49.000 track casting and leveraging artificial intelligence to help us assist 83 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:50.800 in some of our research. 84 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:54.720 Programs, assist instead of hinder, I suppose, yeah, exactly. 85 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.319 Yeah, all three of your books are following this format, 86 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.439 like not really. The first book is strictly a lot 87 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:03.720 of scientific papers in it, and I do have some 88 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:09.360 introductory caveats in there. In an epilogue, but it's sourced 89 00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:15.879 with two hundred and seventy five plus sources of different scientists. 90 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:18.959 There's an appendix that has the charts that I use 91 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:23.519 in the book and has charts of an updated I 92 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:27.360 actually took doctor Henter Fahrenbach's charts and I updated them 93 00:05:27.720 --> 00:05:32.319 to look more modern and more graphically appealing as well. 94 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:34.959 So there was a number of things I did in 95 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:38.360 this particular book. It's indexed, it's got a great broken 96 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:42.519 down table context. The next two books are written more 97 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:47.160 in book format, and like the book coming out on 98 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:50.759 March fifteenth as The squad Sectim's Guide to Bigfoot Investigations, 99 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:54.759 and that is a book basically just step by step 100 00:05:54.759 --> 00:05:57.360 how to conduct a proper interview of a witness, how 101 00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:00.720 to set the room up for a proper per interview 102 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:04.480 or the scene for a proper interview, what to look 103 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:10.759 for when interviewing somebody, evidence collection guidelines, casting guides, you know, 104 00:06:10.839 --> 00:06:11.879 the whole nines with that. 105 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:12.680 Uh. 106 00:06:12.839 --> 00:06:16.920 The last book is what would Sasquatch Do? Volume two, 107 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:22.040 which is all about primate behavior in relation to bigfoot 108 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:25.959 behavior and how they are similar and and you know 109 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:28.519 you'll see some of the parallels in there and what 110 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:30.360 that means for bigfoot research. 111 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:33.160 So kind of building on what doctor Bindernogel did in 112 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:34.720 his first book, maybe. 113 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:40.959 Yeah, exactly. Mine is really deep into primatology. You know, 114 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:44.439 I talk about you know, the in that when I 115 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:47.680 talk about the Great Apes and their different types of behaviors, 116 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:51.240 their modalities there they're how you know, how they they 117 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:55.560 habituate areas, how they eat, how they sleep, how they 118 00:06:56.439 --> 00:07:00.639 mate even and what that means for big with sightings 119 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:06.360 and relating the known sightings using witness testimonies to see 120 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:09.759 if it correlates with the Great Apes and it just 121 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:10.639 so happens that they do. 122 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:13.800 Well, yeah, yeah, I think that'd be an obvious one, right, 123 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:17.120 But the specifically is where we get to the thing 124 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:19.839 that I find most interesting, like how they correlate. Well, 125 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:21.800 let's see. Let's see, so let's go back to the 126 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:24.199 first book for a minute, because we're talking chronologically here 127 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:28.800 the scientific examination. You say that you looked at forty 128 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:33.079 nine different scholarly articles, right, like papers written about specifically 129 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:35.519 about sasquatches or did you go outside of the lines 130 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:38.639 there and look into palaeoanthropology and hominins and that sort 131 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:38.839 of thing. 132 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:39.279 As well. 133 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:42.600 No, I actually wrote the papers myself. 134 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:45.600 Oh you wrote the papers. I thought you were referencing papers. 135 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:49.439 Oh no, I've actually written forty nine separate papers in 136 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:53.439 that book. You know, for example, it starts off with 137 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:58.360 a comprehensive scientific profile with Bigfoot, and you know, it 138 00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:05.800 talks about anatomy and emotion, oral and olafactory capabilities, behavioral characteristics, 139 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:13.120 nesting behaviors, communication, ego, you know, ecological adaptations, you know, 140 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:18.079 evolutionary hypothesies, you know, evidence and research that's been done, 141 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:22.879 hypothetical behavioral strategies. And that's just the first paper. And 142 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:28.000 it breaks it down and it's references numbers of work 143 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:34.360 across multidisciplinary sciences. So you know, in some in some papers, 144 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:39.279 you know, we're referencing paleo you know, paleo anthropology. In 145 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:43.320 other papers, we're referencing primatology. In other papers, we have 146 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:47.440 references to sociology. You know, depending on where where the 147 00:08:47.799 --> 00:08:52.360 paper lies and what references I used to you know, 148 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:54.360 basically support what I was writing. 149 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:57.279 How physically bigger? How many words are pages? 150 00:08:57.320 --> 00:08:57.600 Are they? 151 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:01.919 Well? The first book out as four hundred and two pages. 152 00:09:02.279 --> 00:09:04.039 Well, I was going to say maybe a lot of 153 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:06.000 stuff off like your covers, I figure they got to 154 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:08.480 be thick, like a Webster's diction or something. 155 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:11.879 Yeah, the next two books really aren't as thick, although 156 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:15.320 they are very well referenced as well, But they're very 157 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:18.840 narrow focused topics. You know, when you write a book 158 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:22.440 about investigation, how much can you really write about conducting 159 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:26.200 an investigation. It's just a guide book basically, when you're 160 00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:29.519 writing about primate behavior. I was looking for very specific 161 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:34.679 type of things when it comes to that. So I 162 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:38.559 think the Guide to Investigations rounded out to about one 163 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:42.320 hundred and five pages. What would Sasquatch two Volume two 164 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:44.559 rounded up to about one hundred and thirty one hundred 165 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:45.679 and thirty five pages. 166 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:50.679 And all these books will be available, how well, they'll all. 167 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:53.960 Be available on Amazon as they get released that unfortunately, 168 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:56.879 Amazon doesn't give me the links ahead of time before 169 00:09:56.919 --> 00:10:00.879 they go live, but they'll also be for the first time, 170 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:05.240 I'm actually releasing books in not only paperback form, but 171 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:06.440 hardcover as well. 172 00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:10.799 Oh that's cool for us hardcore book collectors. 173 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:14.639 And I actually readed my last two books to include 174 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:18.200 hardcod for editions, which was The Sasquatch Playbook, and of 175 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:21.639 course last year, the Psychology of Bigfoot. Again, that was 176 00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:24.519 about one hundred and fifty four pages in a very 177 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:29.399 narrow scope. I was looking at the psychology of bigfoot witnesses, 178 00:10:29.559 --> 00:10:32.360 and you know, and the amazing thing when I wrote 179 00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:36.080 that book, it lurks right into well, why don't we 180 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:39.840 have that much photographic evidence? And it lurks to write 181 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:44.039 into it because there's a lot of psychological reasons why 182 00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:46.279 we don't have a lot of photographic evidence. 183 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:49.919 On the human side of things. Correct, Yes, gotcha, And 184 00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:51.600 what are some of those reasons that you found? 185 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:55.039 Well, again, when you look at a big foot. When 186 00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:58.360 somebody sees a bigfoot and it's not in their wheelhouse, 187 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:02.320 the mind kind of stutters a bit. You know, aside 188 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:06.519 from all the machinations of the limbic system which controls 189 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:10.000 our flight or fight response, you know, our bodily functions, 190 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:13.440 our respiration, all that wonderful fun stuff. Now think about it. 191 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:15.799 You're seeing something, so your mind's trying to catalog when 192 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:19.759 am I looking at So that causes a delay, and 193 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:24.360 sometimes that will cause people to have post traumatic regression 194 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:27.080 where all the bigfoot was there and then it just 195 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:32.240 disappeared because their mind is actually removing that traumatic event 196 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:34.519 to them. It depends again, a lot of it depends 197 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:37.000 on the person. It also depends on the type of 198 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:39.759 sighting as well. You know, if somebody's really close to 199 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:43.399 one and they're ten feet away, that can be pretty traumatic. 200 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:48.519 So the mind actually, like car accident victims won't remember 201 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:52.600 sometimes after the point of impact, after a trauma because 202 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:57.960 their mind purposely regresses that memory to save it from 203 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:00.600 the pain. You know, we see that a lot of 204 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:04.159 times in children that are victims of trauma as well. 205 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:09.399 They blank that out as they get older. So it's 206 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:12.039 it's really a number of things. But getting back to 207 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:16.440 the photograph question, mind you, now you have to calmly 208 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:20.639 and coolly. You know, people think that well, all these phones, 209 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:23.519 you would think that there would be pictures. Well that's 210 00:12:23.559 --> 00:12:28.919 the problem. Phones are not point and shoot. They're you know, 211 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:33.480 open up the phone, swipe, get your app up, put 212 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:35.639 it out there, and then put your finger on the 213 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:37.840 button and take a picture. So there's a lot of 214 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:42.480 processes to a phone to a camera phone. Whereas the 215 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:46.279 old day, the the the old you know, where it 216 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:51.120 was just point and click maybe focus. Now everything is 217 00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:54.240 auto focused, and that adds yet another layer of complication 218 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:58.360 because if you're filming something in the woods, that first 219 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:01.559 item that's there, that first tree with your camera, so 220 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:05.039 auto focus is going to be zooming in on. So 221 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:08.679 that's another reason why you'll get blurry photographs. 222 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:08.799 Right right. 223 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:11.879 So let's take a look at that second book, which 224 00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:14.919 I find pretty interesting because I'm very much an evidence 225 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:17.120 kind of guy, and this is kind of walking people 226 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:19.240 what they can do to be better investigators. It sounds 227 00:13:19.240 --> 00:13:22.559 like pretty much. And you have a tremendous amount of 228 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:25.480 experience with dealing with people in general because you've been 229 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:28.639 a private detective for so long and like he's an investigator, 230 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:33.159 the squash detective, and you've been on just countless investigations yourself. 231 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:37.639 What are some of the key points for bigfoot researchers 232 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:39.480 when they're interviewing a witness. What are some of the 233 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:41.919 key points that you're hoping they'll take away from your book? 234 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:46.000 Well, number one, how to properly conduct an interview where 235 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:50.759 you're putting your witness at ease. How to build a 236 00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:53.759 baseline with the witness, because when you sit down with 237 00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:57.559 the witness, you just don't get into okay, what did 238 00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:01.039 you say? You know you want to talk to that person, 239 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:03.759 get to know them a little bit, see how they 240 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:08.120 answer true questions. For example, you know, okay, so how 241 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:11.240 long you've been living here? Where you're from originally? You know, 242 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:13.559 we have a wife, have kids? Oh really, what do 243 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:16.360 you do for a living? You're getting honest answers. They 244 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:20.039 have no reason to distort any of that, So you're 245 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:23.720 getting a baseline read of how they answer questions truthfully. 246 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:26.960 So then when you get into the story of itself, 247 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:31.440 if they start deviating from what you've seen from you know, 248 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:35.159 other questions, that that could give you a flag or 249 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:37.840 a gut feeling that something isn't quite right here. 250 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:43.399 Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. 251 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:48.960 We'll be right back after these messages. 252 00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:53.440 Then value many different things about their appearance. 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Prescription products require an online consultation with 281 00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:27.799 a healthcare provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. 282 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:32.519 Restrictions apply. See website for full details and important safety information. 283 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:35.799 Very interesting, now, one of the things you mentioned when 284 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:37.559 you were kind of giving us the overview of these 285 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:41.480 books here a minute ago, was how to set up 286 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:44.879 the room for an interview. Sure, that's something that's never 287 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:46.799 occurred to me, so laid on us. 288 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:50.039 So I'll give you a good example. Is that number one, 289 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.360 you want to have a setting where there's no distractions, 290 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:55.279 so you know, being on a front porch really not 291 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:57.480 a good good place to be for a good interview. 292 00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:01.440 Do you want to obtain your PREMI to record the interview? 293 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:06.720 You want to maintain again, maintain an atmosphere with little distraction. 294 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:09.839 But you don't want to put a barrier like you know, 295 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:12.559 sitting on one side of a desk and having the 296 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:15.359 person sitting on the or a table and having the 297 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:18.559 person sitting on another side of the table. That's not 298 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:20.599 a good idea. You don't want to have any barriers. 299 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:25.000 So I prefer to sit chair to chair and you know, 300 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:28.079 not have items in front of me. All that often 301 00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:31.400 I want to kind of be open and that way 302 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:34.039 that openness, you can look at their openness with not 303 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:37.680 having a table in front of you. So you see 304 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:41.759 a lot. You know, from a forensic interviewing standpoint, there's 305 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:44.000 things that when you start talking to people, start asking 306 00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:47.640 him questions, you'll see tells like tapping feet what we 307 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:51.960 call the fig leaf, where you know it's just ingrained 308 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:55.079 in us that sometimes somebody is getting really defensive. They'll 309 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:59.039 actually drop their hands into their groin area and that's 310 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:00.839 what they call the fake leaf, and that's a sign 311 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:04.119 of being defensive or crossing their arms. But you know 312 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:07.559 the fig leafing and tapping of the feet is you know, 313 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:11.079 you put a table between yourself, that barrier, you're going 314 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:14.400 to miss that cue. At the same point in time, 315 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:17.839 you don't want to put a barrier because uh, that 316 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:21.920 represents you know, opposition. You want to have a nice 317 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:27.200 open seating. You're trying to maintain openness. So it's just 318 00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:28.559 little things like that. 319 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:30.920 So you're telling me that those late night talk show 320 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:32.880 hosts are doing it all wrong. Having a desk there 321 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:34.319 were trying to get the info out of the guests. 322 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:37.640 Well, if you ever if you ever notice a lot 323 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:40.759 of the talk show hosts they kind of sit off 324 00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:43.240 to the Like Letterman was really great. He would slide 325 00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:47.160 over to actually almost get chair to chair with the 326 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:49.480 because that the desk is at an angle, they're not 327 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:53.599 sitting perpendicular one another. So that was kind of more 328 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:57.079 of like the desk is between him and the audience, 329 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:00.440 not necessarily him and his guest. It's they're kind of 330 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.480 side by side a bit. So that's a little bit different. 331 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:06.400 I was just speaking of a joke, Yeah, but no, 332 00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:10.279 there there's actually a a psychology behind the way they 333 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:11.920 set those those desks up. 334 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:15.000 I was on Colin O'Brien and it was so weird. 335 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:17.559 It was the strangest conversation because I was sitting ahead 336 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:19.000 of him and I had to like look back. He 337 00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:21.039 was sitting kind of behind me to the side a 338 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:21.480 little bit. 339 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:25.440 Right. Well, you know, you're a tall guy. He's he's 340 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:27.240 an immensely tall person, isn't he. 341 00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:31.119 Yeah, he's got that guy's got to int his in 342 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:35.160 Memborle index is pretty non human. I'd say that guy 343 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:36.759 has what you see it in person. He's an odd 344 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:38.839 looking d He's got like a real short torso and 345 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:40.599 like really long arms and legs. 346 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:48.119 Yeah, you know, and that that's again that's primar primate dimorphisism. 347 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:51.599 I mean, that's why it's no surprise that we have 348 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:55.319 different you know, we have different chimpanzees that are different sizes. 349 00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:58.359 We have different gorillas that that that come in different 350 00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:01.880 shapes and sizes, orangutan and we you know, sasquatch as well. 351 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:05.400 So when you're talking about the interview people, I think 352 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:07.039 we talked about the last time you were on, but 353 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:09.680 I think they've changed a lot of stuff now about 354 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:12.119 like those tells about if they look to the leaf 355 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:13.079 or look to the right. 356 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:16.960 Yeah, the more of the tells are more in what's 357 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:19.680 the what's going on with the eyebrows and the brow ridge, 358 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:24.519 And it's not so much about where the eyes necessarily 359 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:28.440 focus on because there are you know, there's three types 360 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:31.960 of receivers. There's there's the people that look, there's the 361 00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:34.599 people that listen, and there's the people that feel or touch. 362 00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:38.559 And you know, I'm famous for being a listener. I 363 00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:42.839 can listen to things and absorb them very easily. I 364 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:45.200 don't need it, necessarily need to see it, but I 365 00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:47.759 need to hear it. There are people that need to 366 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.799 see things to absorb and you know, and then there's 367 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:54.839 people that need to touch or feel And if you 368 00:20:54.920 --> 00:20:57.599 ever get in the conversation, you know, with me, sometimes 369 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:00.400 I'm always kind of looking around. That was because of 370 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.680 my profession, because I was I always had my head 371 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:05.559 on a swivel, So you may not get a lot 372 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:08.960 of eye contact from me all the time, especially if 373 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:12.079 there's a lot of distractions going on. Conversely, you have 374 00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:15.039 people that you know that will always like when they 375 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:17.720 talk to you, they touch your arm or they put 376 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:20.559 your hand on their shoulder, and you know, they'll they'll 377 00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:23.720 make statements like do you feel me? You know, so 378 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:28.039 you get those So based on those three types of receptors, 379 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:33.559 that eye contact stuff isn't always necessarily prone. What you 380 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:38.319 need to look for is like eye closing and eye blinking, 381 00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:42.680 Like if you ask a stressful question and somebody is 382 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:45.240 telling you a lie, you'll, you know, sometimes they get 383 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.960 into a rapid blink mode and they'll blink their eyes 384 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:51.720 four or five times faster than they have been during 385 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:54.920 normal questioning, which is why it's so important to establish 386 00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:55.759 that baseline. 387 00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:58.839 So if you're going to try to fool like an interrogator, 388 00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:01.720 investigator or something you get like some botox shots of 389 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:04.680 lower forehead. Keep your eyebrows study. 390 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:08.240 Yeah, well exactly. One of the interesting things that a 391 00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:12.279 body language is people that will force their eyebrows up 392 00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:15.519 and it creates quite the crinkle on their brow. But 393 00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:18.759 that is something if you can picture that, think of 394 00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:22.079 a little child getting caught in the cookie jar. I 395 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:25.559 didn't take that cookie right, and their eyebrows are sticking 396 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:28.000 straight up, you know, as high as they can be. 397 00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:30.759 And that's something to look out for. When people say 398 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:34.319 I saw a bigfoot, you know, they're generally the people 399 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:36.319 that have really seen a big photo was like, listen, 400 00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:39.279 I've seen a bigfoot, and they'll just tell you a 401 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:42.160