1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,280
Speaker 1: No guests were guests go oh I'm the guest. Oh okay,

2
00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:06,519
but I'd finally been elevated to host.

3
00:00:07,719 --> 00:00:09,039
Speaker 2: You could be the host. I can be the guest.

4
00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,279
Speaker 1: No, no, ask.

5
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:17,160
Speaker 3: Not what your country can do for you, Ask what

6
00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:18,839
you can do for your country.

7
00:00:19,559 --> 00:00:23,399
Speaker 1: Mister garbach Off, Tear down this wall.

8
00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,280
Speaker 4: Hits the Ricochet podcast where the brother Rob Long he's back,

9
00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:29,000
and John.

10
00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 2: You he's back as well, and James Lenox that we're.

11
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,880
Speaker 4: Going to talk about everything that's going on. So what's

12
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:34,560
that results a.

13
00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:36,920
Speaker 3: Podcast on this vote. The a's are two hundred and

14
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,960
twenty two. The a's are two oh nine. The bill

15
00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:44,679
has passed, the motion is adopted.

16
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,399
Speaker 5: We're placing a two trillion dollar deficit.

17
00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:48,759
Speaker 1: So I don't think we're gonna.

18
00:00:48,799 --> 00:00:51,200
Speaker 4: Get out of this annual deficit.

19
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:51,799
Speaker 1: By taxing people.

20
00:00:52,079 --> 00:00:54,359
Speaker 4: Now, the tariffs are out there, the presidents saying tariffs

21
00:00:54,399 --> 00:00:55,759
are his favorite word.

22
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:56,920
Speaker 1: He loves tariff's.

23
00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,799
Speaker 2: Replace the word tariff with tax and you would think.

24
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:01,640
Speaker 4: Oh my God, and his Republicans love Jackson's.

25
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:02,880
Speaker 5: Welcome everybody.

26
00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,680
Speaker 4: It's the Ricochet Podcast, number seven hundred and sixty five.

27
00:01:06,159 --> 00:01:09,480
I'm James Lilax here in Minneapolis. Rob Long is back.

28
00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:11,439
Brother Rob is amongst us. I don't know where he is.

29
00:01:11,439 --> 00:01:13,599
We'll find you in the second. And also joining us

30
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,480
is Schrodinger's pundit, John You.

31
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,359
Speaker 5: Is he a host? Is he a guest?

32
00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:20,599
Speaker 2: Is he alive?

33
00:01:21,079 --> 00:01:22,799
Speaker 5: We don't know exactly.

34
00:01:22,879 --> 00:01:25,519
Speaker 4: We're going to consider him a host because after all

35
00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,040
of these years, it just seems ridiculous not to grant

36
00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:29,040
him that honorific.

37
00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:30,799
Speaker 5: So welcome John, Welcome Rob.

38
00:01:30,879 --> 00:01:33,040
Speaker 1: It's okay about damn time.

39
00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,840
Speaker 6: Granting John Henny honorific if this comes down.

40
00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,560
Speaker 1: Although I feel like this is the last week of

41
00:01:39,599 --> 00:01:41,680
the major league season, this is when they pull all

42
00:01:41,719 --> 00:01:42,879
the people up from Triple A.

43
00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,480
Speaker 4: Indeed, well, here you are, and we're glad to have you.

44
00:01:47,519 --> 00:01:49,359
And there's so much to discuss today. We haven't had

45
00:01:49,439 --> 00:01:51,359
Rob on for a while, and so we'd like to

46
00:01:51,359 --> 00:01:54,920
get Rob's take on things as they have been I

47
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,560
this topic comes up an awful lot.

48
00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,879
Speaker 5: I know it's important, but I cannot gin up the.

49
00:02:00,879 --> 00:02:05,560
Speaker 4: Passions exactly to discuss the before, the after, the during,

50
00:02:05,879 --> 00:02:09,960
whatever of the shutdown, because the shutdown just seems like

51
00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:13,479
such theater and I tire of it. But you know

52
00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,400
you can't do that with this This is the Ricochet podcast.

53
00:02:17,439 --> 00:02:19,960
We've got to have an opinion, we've got to set

54
00:02:20,039 --> 00:02:24,400
forth what we believe. So government's back forty three days.

55
00:02:24,439 --> 00:02:25,639
Speaker 5: Wow, I don't know. We made it.

56
00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,599
Speaker 4: President signs of funding bill late Wednesday, fund the government

57
00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,039
through well through January thirtieth.

58
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,400
Speaker 5: So yeah, you know, here we go again.

59
00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,599
Speaker 4: The agreement reverses the mass federal layoffs, and I seem

60
00:02:38,599 --> 00:02:41,240
to remember that there was something brooded about that this

61
00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,680
would be the opportunity to just decap well not decimate,

62
00:02:44,759 --> 00:02:48,319
but decimate plus large sections of the federal government by

63
00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:49,800
just saying, oh, we're going to zero you out.

64
00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,080
Speaker 5: You can't come back. That didn't happen. What do you think, guys,

65
00:02:54,479 --> 00:02:56,840
win loss? Let's look at it this.

66
00:02:56,879 --> 00:03:00,319
Speaker 4: Two ways, the actual winners and losers and what are

67
00:03:00,319 --> 00:03:02,840
now being thrown to us as the perceived winners and

68
00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,400
losers in the spin game.

69
00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:06,479
Speaker 5: Robi, you go first, it's been a while.

70
00:03:07,039 --> 00:03:09,159
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, you know the reason you're sick of

71
00:03:09,199 --> 00:03:11,360
it talking about these is we have them every year practically,

72
00:03:11,439 --> 00:03:13,759
I mean, we should start to number them because like

73
00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,319
World War one, world War two, so so we give

74
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:16,039
them track.

75
00:03:16,039 --> 00:03:18,159
Speaker 5: No give names like given names like hurricanes.

76
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:19,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

77
00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,039
Speaker 6: This is a shutdown, you know, Charlie birth or something,

78
00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,919
and I am baffled by them.

79
00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,599
Speaker 2: I'm baffled by why they keep happening.

80
00:03:26,879 --> 00:03:29,240
Speaker 6: The really the political rule of thumb is and I

81
00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,199
could be wrong, but I sort of like did.

82
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,639
Speaker 2: Some very fast research on this last week.

83
00:03:35,479 --> 00:03:40,039
Speaker 6: The party not in the party in the White House

84
00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:45,159
during a shutdown almost always wins politically or comes out

85
00:03:45,199 --> 00:03:48,360
slightly ahead. Doesn't matter who that person is, doesn't matter

86
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,120
who the president is. But usually the president comes out

87
00:03:51,319 --> 00:03:57,319
ahead politically. Everyone else loses because, of course, it's never

88
00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:02,039
an opportunity to cut government, and it's never an opportunity

89
00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,879
to rethink priorities, and it's never an opportunity to cut

90
00:04:05,879 --> 00:04:08,479
the budget and all the things that all the levers

91
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,879
that people use, and the jeopardy they put into it

92
00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,719
never quite comes true. And what it really does is

93
00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:19,399
it's forty three days of just these hysterical dramatics, often

94
00:04:19,439 --> 00:04:22,079
from the party in Congress in this case, the Democrats

95
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,839
or the party you know, not in the White Housers

96
00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:30,240
to say complain predicting all sorts of disasters. Planes are

97
00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:31,959
gonna fall out of the sky and children that go

98
00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:37,360
hungry and I mean, whether we're losers or not, we

99
00:04:37,639 --> 00:04:40,240
have we must at some point confront the fact that

100
00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,160
as a culture, as a people, we love the dramatics

101
00:04:44,199 --> 00:04:49,600
of this. We seem absolutely dead set on having these

102
00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:55,279
dramatic confrontations about nothing every couple of years. And I

103
00:04:55,319 --> 00:04:57,800
think that if you're a normal American, you just tune

104
00:04:57,839 --> 00:04:59,920
it out. You tune it out. You know that things

105
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:01,680
that it's never going to be a disaster, but you

106
00:05:01,759 --> 00:05:05,680
also should know it's not going to lead to anything better. Yeah,

107
00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,120
And that that I think is the sort of the

108
00:05:07,639 --> 00:05:08,480
exhausting part of it.

109
00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,079
Speaker 2: James, Well, try to explain why you're exhausted to clarify there.

110
00:05:11,959 --> 00:05:13,600
Speaker 4: You said we love it, and then you said the

111
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,399
American people tune it out. If by we you mean

112
00:05:16,399 --> 00:05:18,720
those who are obsessively following politics and the rest of it,

113
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,759
I don't. I find it all a bunch of tiresome nonsense.

114
00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,720
And I think the we in the general national sense

115
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,040
is that people. Yeah, that people tune it out because

116
00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,519
if anything, there's a lesson to be learned about exactly

117
00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,399
how much impact the federal government has on you in

118
00:05:31,399 --> 00:05:34,040
a day to day basis. I know it is funny

119
00:05:34,079 --> 00:05:36,199
because we talk about the you know, the the heavy

120
00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:37,439
hand of the state is.

121
00:05:37,399 --> 00:05:39,600
Speaker 5: Always pressing down upon us. In Menion goes away for

122
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:40,720
forty three days, We're like.

123
00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,240
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, okay, yeah, John.

124
00:05:45,879 --> 00:05:53,160
Speaker 1: I put my thinking in military terms, tatics, operations, and strategy. Oh,

125
00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:55,360
by the way, when it comes to naming, I'm surprised

126
00:05:55,439 --> 00:05:59,959
Rob didn't say we should name them like professional wrestling meets, right,

127
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,920
don't they always have some clever name like Lola Palooza

128
00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,360
fat guy rolling around on other people number seven? But

129
00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,519
that would be ZBC and would be in fitting with

130
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:15,199
this administration's favorite sport. It seems so. I think technically

131
00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,279
what happened here is I agree with Rob. The Democrats

132
00:06:18,439 --> 00:06:21,560
in Congress won because they juiced to turn out for

133
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,160
the elections, and I think that's what this was all about,

134
00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,040
which is why the deal was reached right after the

135
00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,639
elections are over. They made their base angry. They got

136
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,759
them to the polls. They won huge margins in places

137
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,959
like New Jersey and Virginia, way more than two years

138
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,240
ago or four years ago. That might go blow back

139
00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,600
on them because now their base is really angry because

140
00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,240
they had heightened expectations. I think at the higher level.

141
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,600
What this shows is how Congress as an institution has

142
00:06:48,639 --> 00:06:50,959
failed because the reason why you do shutdowns, and I

143
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,040
was around for the first one. I was actually working

144
00:06:53,079 --> 00:06:56,040
in Congress during the Gingrid shutdown, and so I remember

145
00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,920
the very first shutdown. The reason why is because everything

146
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,120
now that gets decided by Congress is folded into gigantic

147
00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,639
spending bills. You don't have any individual bills anymore. There

148
00:07:06,639 --> 00:07:10,959
are no more individual appropriation bills. There's very few authorizing

149
00:07:10,959 --> 00:07:13,079
bills like the Voting Rights Act, which we'll talk about later.

150
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,399
All legislation gets rolled up into these spending bills. And

151
00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,959
so if the spendingbles weren't as important, you know, if

152
00:07:21,079 --> 00:07:23,920
you didn't have everything in one omnibus bill, then it

153
00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,480
wouldn't cost as much to have the blocked. But now

154
00:07:27,639 --> 00:07:30,879
everything shuts down because Congress as an institution doesn't work.

155
00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,680
It's too easy to get it to stop. The larger

156
00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,959
thing is an American citizen, you know, taxpayer. This is not,

157
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,279
as Rob said, is not going to solve the budget deficit.

158
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,600
You could shut down the operations of the government for

159
00:07:44,759 --> 00:07:47,879
years and never solve the budget deficit because the budget

160
00:07:47,879 --> 00:07:50,839
deficits being produced by one thing. Which is entitlement programs,

161
00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,920
and those are on automatic spending no matter what happens.

162
00:07:54,279 --> 00:07:56,800
So yeah, you could have the government could have been

163
00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,680
shut for the next decade probably, and still we would

164
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,480
have this enormous budget. That's it because Medicaid and Medicare

165
00:08:03,519 --> 00:08:05,879
and Social Security of what driving the country bankrupt?

166
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,439
Speaker 4: Doing my part, Well, is there any hope ever, at

167
00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:15,120
any point, at getting rid of these blob debus crs,

168
00:08:15,319 --> 00:08:20,480
these continuing resolutions, these massive things that contain universes and

169
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,279
multitudes and going back to this dare I say an

170
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,360
archaic method where you actually have a bill that is

171
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,720
about a thing and there's a debate about the thing,

172
00:08:28,079 --> 00:08:30,399
and then there's another bill that is about a thing

173
00:08:30,519 --> 00:08:31,560
and we have a debate.

174
00:08:31,279 --> 00:08:31,839
Speaker 5: About the thing.

175
00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,039
Speaker 4: Is there any appetite for that in either party or

176
00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:35,879
are they just simply too comfortable with tucking all the

177
00:08:35,879 --> 00:08:39,159
stuff that they love into this thing and not scratch

178
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,600
my back all scratch yours it goes through. I think

179
00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,759
it's hopeless. I don't think there's a chance in hell

180
00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,159
of ever going back to something where we're voting on

181
00:08:47,279 --> 00:08:49,080
individual bills for everything.

182
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:51,759
Speaker 6: Well, the reason we don't do that is because we

183
00:08:51,759 --> 00:08:55,279
can't afford too. We can't afford it. It's a shell

184
00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,279
game for the federal budget and for chet government expenditures

185
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,360
in general. And so the more complicated you make something

186
00:09:02,399 --> 00:09:06,080
the harder, the easier it is to ignore the problems. Right, so,

187
00:09:06,159 --> 00:09:09,399
the more ornaments you put on the building, the easier

188
00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,159
it is. To easier it is to realize that to

189
00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,320
discover that the building isn't, you know, sound, And so

190
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,600
it's kind of this like general understanding that we all

191
00:09:18,639 --> 00:09:20,919
have that you know, eventually the music's going to stop,

192
00:09:20,919 --> 00:09:25,320
but it hasn't stopped yet, that well, we'll fix this later.

193
00:09:25,399 --> 00:09:28,000
We'll kick this cant down the road. And at a

194
00:09:28,039 --> 00:09:30,399
certain point that makes some sense, you know that sort

195
00:09:30,399 --> 00:09:33,759
of the Reagan Bush even Clinton years kind of you

196
00:09:33,759 --> 00:09:35,879
could kind of do the math and say, well, you know,

197
00:09:36,399 --> 00:09:38,679
we could maybe grow out of if we hold the

198
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,799
line on spending kind of, we can kind of grow

199
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,240
out of our deficit and lower the debt.

200
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:44,519
Speaker 2: That's sort of happened.

201
00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,159
Speaker 6: But it's essentially a demographic problem because there are more

202
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,759
old people taking Social Security than there are young people

203
00:09:50,919 --> 00:09:52,559
kicking into it, and it's been a pay as you

204
00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:58,600
go program pretty much forever, so what the people have

205
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,360
to decide. And this is sort of where I put

206
00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,879
the blame is that they they recognize it, accept that

207
00:10:05,919 --> 00:10:08,759
there is no such thing as a free lunch, and

208
00:10:08,799 --> 00:10:12,600
that that they are going to have to give up

209
00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,000
the free lunch, and that none of the people they hire,

210
00:10:15,879 --> 00:10:21,639
these sort of craven publicity hounds and attention seekers in

211
00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,919
Congress and the Senate and in the White House, none

212
00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:28,000
of those people is going to have the courage and

213
00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:32,080
the probably I think, and the truth to tell you

214
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,720
the bad news, which is we can't can't, we can't

215
00:10:35,759 --> 00:10:39,399
afford to do and promise what we've been promising the

216
00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:40,840
way we've been raising money.

217
00:10:40,879 --> 00:10:43,879
Speaker 2: And it's I mean, I mean, this is a horrible

218
00:10:43,879 --> 00:10:44,399
thing to say.

219
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,360
Speaker 6: Right, I'm a Republican basic, well not anymore, but basically

220
00:10:47,399 --> 00:10:52,080
a Republican, right, and I would say, you're either going

221
00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,480
to cut titlements, as John says, or are you going

222
00:10:54,519 --> 00:10:58,120
to raise taxes? And if you're a liberal Democrat, that's

223
00:10:58,159 --> 00:11:02,679
a perfectly fine outcome. Like if you talk any liberal Democrat,

224
00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:03,960
they don't think we have a problem.

225
00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:04,799
Speaker 2: If they think it's an.

226
00:11:04,759 --> 00:11:09,080
Speaker 6: Accounting problem the government has as far as they're concerned.

227
00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,240
One hundred percent access to one hundred percent of your

228
00:11:12,279 --> 00:11:15,360
net worth at any given time. So, yeah, you just

229
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:21,600
raise taxes is seventy and debt to eliminated. It's only

230
00:11:21,639 --> 00:11:25,919
conservatives who believe that that would be a huge, huge mistake.

231
00:11:26,799 --> 00:11:28,120
Speaker 2: So and that number is dwindling.

232
00:11:28,159 --> 00:11:31,120
Speaker 6: The number of people who believe that is dwindling smaller

233
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,000
and smaller and smaller to a tiny remnant of people

234
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,799
who believe that actually taxes and fees are bad.

235
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,440
Speaker 1: So I think there's a moral case there to be me.

236
00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:44,200
You're the moral expert problem I've heard of you. No, definitely,

237
00:11:45,799 --> 00:11:49,120
I'm just a simple utilitarian, evil utilitarian.

238
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,559
Speaker 2: You're just sure you've got a law clerk.

239
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,759
Speaker 1: I'm sure in your seminars you have an effigy of

240
00:11:54,759 --> 00:11:57,720
a utilitarian you whee allowed on salt Verrgin.

241
00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,919
Speaker 2: It's a picture of you.

242
00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:06,919
Speaker 1: Two things about what what Rob said. One is there's

243
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:08,720
a morald case to be made that I think you're

244
00:12:08,799 --> 00:12:11,039
hinting at, Rob, which is, why does the government have

245
00:12:11,159 --> 00:12:13,320
the right to do that? Why does the government have

246
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,399
the right to take money out of one person's pocket

247
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,240
and use it to pay for the healthcare for another person?

248
00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:18,519
Speaker 4: Right?

249
00:12:18,759 --> 00:12:20,919
Speaker 1: And Reagan used to be so good. Now. Reagan's forty

250
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,480
years ago, but he was the last leader I remember

251
00:12:23,519 --> 00:12:29,559
who really made against this. Well, for you, Rob, everything's eternal,

252
00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,120
that's the marble. This is all just, this is all

253
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,320
just passing moments on the way to a big time

254
00:12:36,399 --> 00:12:38,799
the show. And so but here's the other thing. I

255
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,159
was just giving a talk in Arizona at the University

256
00:12:41,159 --> 00:12:45,080
of Arizona. I talk with some undergraduates there. They are angry.

257
00:12:45,399 --> 00:12:48,240
I think that's one thing this shows is that they're

258
00:12:48,279 --> 00:12:50,399
pissed at the Yeah, you guys, I'm not in your

259
00:12:50,399 --> 00:12:54,039
guys generation, the baby boomers. They are so angry because I.

260
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,960
Speaker 2: Think my friend excerpt, I think that they.

261
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,519
Speaker 1: Understand that Social Security, Medicaid, the Medicare, these are all

262
00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:06,240
just massive transfer programs from them. Right, the young people

263
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,960
are taking their money's being taken away from them. All

264
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,000
their opportunities are being narrowed to pay for the Baby

265
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,919
boom generation's retirement because they didn't save, because they didn't

266
00:13:15,919 --> 00:13:17,679
take care of their own health care. I think they're

267
00:13:17,799 --> 00:13:20,639
very aware of it. That's why you have other eruptions

268
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,360
like the election of a socialist in New York City,

269
00:13:24,639 --> 00:13:27,559
even though he's an anti semi the anger that you

270
00:13:27,639 --> 00:13:30,320
see is there, and I think the Democrats you saw

271
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:31,960
some of that. Now that's why they're getting so much

272
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,879
blowback on caving on the shutdown, because that generation thought

273
00:13:37,039 --> 00:13:40,080
actually something big was going to happen, and they're ticked off.

274
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,559
Maybe this is the opportunity for conservatives now they're going

275
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,759
to have this debate about Obamacare subsidies is why should

276
00:13:47,799 --> 00:13:51,240
we still give out healthcare subsidies that were designed to

277
00:13:51,279 --> 00:13:54,440
take care of the COVID emergency and make them permanent.

278
00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,840
Why is it okay to take money from young people

279
00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,879
and to narrow their resource their opportunities in life. Seventy

280
00:14:00,919 --> 00:14:03,480
five and eighty year old people can you know, have

281
00:14:03,519 --> 00:14:06,360
their healthcare paid for and have a comfortable retirement. It

282
00:14:06,399 --> 00:14:08,559
should go the other way around. The old people should

283
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:10,080
be the pre way for the young people.

284
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,679
Speaker 2: And you know what I mean. I this is not

285
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:14,360
a digression.

286
00:14:14,519 --> 00:14:17,039
Speaker 6: It is a digression. But what you just you said

287
00:14:17,039 --> 00:14:20,039
two really important things. One just always triggers me, is

288
00:14:20,039 --> 00:14:24,360
this talk about Obamacare, because Obamacare was a failure from

289
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:29,039
the DNA of Obamacare does not work, and we knew

290
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,440
it didn't work, and everybody who could do math, those

291
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,480
it wasn't gonna work, in the same way that people

292
00:14:34,519 --> 00:14:36,720
knew Social Security wasn't gonna work either, because you can

293
00:14:37,039 --> 00:14:39,000
look at actuarial tables and you look at the way

294
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:40,840
you look at the population growth.

295
00:14:40,919 --> 00:14:43,120
Speaker 2: Right, you just know, right. But what I what was

296
00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:45,080
so dishonest about Obamacare?

297
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,759
Speaker 6: At least with the Social Security people, they kind of knew, well,

298
00:14:47,799 --> 00:14:49,799
this is you know, in fifty sixty, seventy eighty years,

299
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:51,279
it could be a problem and we'll solve it. Then

300
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,679
with some magic we'll be living on venus or something

301
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,039
with jet packs. Right, Obamacare, they knew it wasn't gonna work,

302
00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:58,919
and the lies were so deep.

303
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:00,320
Speaker 2: Do you remember.

304
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,399
Speaker 6: It's the famous picture of the little the boy in

305
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,960
pajamas and he's like, yah, a boy, when you pajama boy,

306
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,480
when you go home to your parents, you remember, you

307
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:11,759
should talk about health care.

308
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:13,200
Speaker 2: And it was this idea.

309
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,360
Speaker 6: Somehow it was so inverted that the that the solution

310
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:23,720
for America's healthcare crisis was getting old people and your

311
00:15:23,759 --> 00:15:26,240
parents to sign up for Obamacare.

312
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,720
Speaker 2: That is a total falsehood. It was backwards.

313
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,519
Speaker 6: They should have had a picture of an old man

314
00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:36,480
in pajamas saying, when your kids come back for the holidays.

315
00:15:36,759 --> 00:15:41,039
Make sure the kids sign up for Obamacare, because it's

316
00:15:41,159 --> 00:15:44,080
the young people who are going to support this program

317
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:48,399
because they don't use health insurance and they don't actually

318
00:15:48,399 --> 00:15:51,080
they don't get sick mostly they don't need to. They

319
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:52,960
don't have all the problems that old people have. Old

320
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:54,639
people like John's like, you know, you look at it.

321
00:15:54,759 --> 00:15:56,320
He's like, I don't know how. I don't know how

322
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:57,000
you're hanging on.

323
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,480
Speaker 1: They don't have a Korean skin cosmetics, my friend.

324
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,559
Speaker 6: I mean, health insurance of the kind that we have

325
00:16:04,639 --> 00:16:08,120
designed only works if we make sure that young people

326
00:16:08,159 --> 00:16:10,200
pay a lot of money for it and they don't

327
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,080
need it, and that that this honesty was baked in.

328
00:16:14,559 --> 00:16:16,159
And I do think that there is that. I mean,

329
00:16:16,159 --> 00:16:18,240
I think the larger issue is you're starting to see

330
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,320
this the socialists being elected in Manhattan or New York.

331
00:16:22,639 --> 00:16:24,159
I think you're seeing a lot of young people on

332
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,519
the right who are really, really angry and furious at

333
00:16:26,559 --> 00:16:29,440
the lies they've been told and are continuing to be told.

334
00:16:31,039 --> 00:16:32,840
Speaker 2: And I at some point.

335
00:16:33,759 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 6: As I said, I gave a talk the other day

336
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:36,759
and I just said to a bunch of young people,

337
00:16:36,879 --> 00:16:38,440
said that the only solution for you.

338
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,559
Speaker 2: Is you got to take the car keys away from Grandpa.

339
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,360
Speaker 6: You got to you got to kick the generate, the sclerotic,

340
00:16:46,799 --> 00:16:52,120
large generation at the top that refuses to leave, and

341
00:16:52,159 --> 00:16:55,120
you got to kick them out. And that's the only

342
00:16:55,159 --> 00:16:56,759
way this is going to change, because old people are

343
00:16:56,799 --> 00:16:59,960
never going to sit there and vote to raise their

344
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:06,440
They're they're to lower their their entitlement check. It's always

345
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:07,200
going to be bigger.

346
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,759
Speaker 4: Well, they had the opportunity in New York to do that,

347
00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:15,400
and they they took it. The Cuomo guy to the

348
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,000
curb Mandami, they got him in. And even though you

349
00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:21,599
said before that we all know that eventually this thing

350
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:26,599
is unsustainable. It's a paraphrase Heinland that there's no such thing.

351
00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:28,599
Speaker 5: As a free bus ride. Yet there it's going to be.

352
00:17:29,319 --> 00:17:30,079
There's all of these.

353
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,039
Speaker 4: Things that they're going to be given free or heavily

354
00:17:33,079 --> 00:17:35,880
subsidized because they're good, shiny things and they want theirs,

355
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,160
and somehow the money will come out.

356
00:17:37,039 --> 00:17:37,400
Speaker 2: Of the air.

357
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,359
Speaker 4: But it is strange to me that we say that

358
00:17:41,559 --> 00:17:44,559
we are supposed to tell the young people that they

359
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,839
we have to get rid of this generational transfer whereby

360
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,799
you are paying into social Security, that you never see

361
00:17:49,799 --> 00:17:51,799
in medicare that will be probably too expensive, and we're

362
00:17:51,799 --> 00:17:54,400
going to get we're taking money from you and we're

363
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,640
giving it to the old people. And then at the

364
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,960
same time say, but don't go for socialism. I mean,

365
00:18:01,039 --> 00:18:05,119
that's exactly supposedly what should what should be along their

366
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,920
credo where the money is pooled and given to those

367
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,039
in the most need and those in the most dire straits.

368
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:11,079
Speaker 2: Et cetera.

369
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,480
Speaker 5: You'd think that they'd before it, but they're not.

370
00:18:14,039 --> 00:18:16,000
Speaker 4: And the reason that they have this as you point

371
00:18:16,039 --> 00:18:18,119
as John was pointing, oh no is rob which one

372
00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:19,839
of you are pointing about the people that you talk

373
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,680
to who are mad, the young folks who are mad.

374
00:18:21,759 --> 00:18:24,559
Speaker 5: I think people both talk to me, Okay, we're mad.

375
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,960
Speaker 1: For because I was in Tucson, Arizona, and I would

376
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:28,000
just be pissed to be there.

377
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:31,680
Speaker 2: So the mad for a variety of regions, and one

378
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:32,799
of them is Arizona.

379
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,119
Speaker 4: One of them is that yes, one of them is

380
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,079
that indeed, yes, why am I paying for this in

381
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,400
these programs? But the other has to do with a

382
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,640
sense of stagnation, of cultural immobility of the idea, perhaps

383
00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:46,200
that they've done all the right things they went to school,

384
00:18:46,279 --> 00:18:50,400
they got the degree, they have the credential. But yet somehow,

385
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,119
if you're in Brooklyn, you're paying four thousand dollars for

386
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,920
a two bedroom house. You're on some bs job that

387
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,799
really doesn't do anything. The consist of shuffling emails around

388
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,480
or running grants or something. Are if you're of the elite,

389
00:19:01,839 --> 00:19:04,160
and the whole access and upper mobility and the rest

390
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:05,640
of it seems to be denied to them. They don't

391
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,160
think they're ever going to have a house. They're going

392
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,359
to be stuck in a flat forever. So they hate

393
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,880
the boomers for a variety of reasons. One of them

394
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,000
is that they're having to pay for Social Security too.

395
00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:17,960
They think that somehow all the boomers squatted on the

396
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,319
houses and grow the prices up, and that the boomers

397
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,000
just look at them and say, well, don't have your

398
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,559
avocado toast and you can afford it. That we're clueless

399
00:19:25,559 --> 00:19:29,359
and not of touch. And also because generally the collapse

400
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,680
of the very institution's credibility that they want to be

401
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,519
part of. They want to be part of the credential

402
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,960
important class, the technocratic managerial class. At the same time

403
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,839
that we've just seen the whole reputation of that class

404
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,240
dissolve after five ten years of of COVID and everything else.

405
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,400
So yeah, you can understand them being mad, But the

406
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,400
solution is not free bus rides. The solution is not

407
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,440
what California is proposing now, which is a new billionaire's tax.

408
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,359
Of course, they want a billionaires tax. They want to

409
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,720
tax five percent. I think of the net worth and

410
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:07,079
they qualify that's land stocks, art everything. Liquidate your stuff,

411
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,519
pay it off and this will generate supposedly a whole

412
00:20:09,519 --> 00:20:11,119
bunch of money which will then be used.

413
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 5: To go to healthcare for illegals. And that's not going

414
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,559
to I mean, if you can try that once and.

415
00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:21,519
Speaker 4: Then everybody's gone, if everybody isn't gone from California already.

416
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,000
So none of their ideas are sustainable. But rob is

417
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,440
right the basic idea that everything that you own actually

418
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,880
already blown belongs to the government and we can just

419
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,559
continue to print money through magical quantitative easings or modern

420
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,079
monetary theory or whatever.

421
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,400
Speaker 5: The only thing we lack is will. The only thing

422
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:41,880
that really is holding.

423
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:46,440
Speaker 4: Us back is a will to socialize absolutely everything and

424
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,119
go full Nordic country on you, you know, to apply

425
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,039
the lessons that worked for a while for a country

426
00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:54,440
of six million people to somehow translate that to a

427
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,119
nation of three hundred and fifty. Well, the affordability issue

428
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,240
is big. Trump sat down with Laura Ingraham recently and

429
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,680
was talking about the whole affordability thing. Apparently, the stats

430
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,119
say that the voters blame Trump, not Biden, to the

431
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,440
state of the economy.

432
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 5: Which some people regard is more perils than I do.

433
00:21:11,519 --> 00:21:14,160
I don't know. I drift farther and farther from these things,

434
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,039
because what do I care. I got my fixed income

435
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:17,720
checks coming in.

436
00:21:17,839 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 2: I'm good.

437
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:21,799
Speaker 4: But I did notice the other day at Trader Joe's

438
00:21:21,799 --> 00:21:25,799
that the bananas, which had been nineteen cents forever their

439
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,880
version of the Costco hot dog, were all of a

440
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,200
sudden twenty three cents, which used to be the price

441
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,240
of the organic bananas.

442
00:21:32,519 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 5: I noted that.

443
00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:35,519
Speaker 4: I noted that the meatballs that I used to get

444
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,440
that I would put into my spaghetti that used to

445
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,680
be six dollars in ninety nine cents are now ten

446
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,599
dollars in ninety nine cents. And I'm thinking, well, we

447
00:21:42,599 --> 00:21:46,799
don't import a lot of pork. I'm noticing these things

448
00:21:47,319 --> 00:21:50,920
I'm wondering why exactly this is still a problem. I'm

449
00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:54,759
kind of sort of blaming tariffs, and I'm pretty damn

450
00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:57,240
sure that if this is not feeling better by nest

451
00:21:57,519 --> 00:21:59,440
next election cycle, it will.

452
00:21:59,279 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 5: Be a bad of blood.

453
00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 1: Can I be baby economists? Baby baby economist? Is that

454
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,400
this is inflation? So inflation is under control? Right, it's

455
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,880
below I think just below three percent, and it was

456
00:22:12,319 --> 00:22:16,680
right hitting nine percent ten percent under Biden, which is ridiculous.

457
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,839
That doesn't mean the prices go back down to the

458
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,599
way they were in twenty twenty or twenty nineteen. It

459
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,720
just means they grow more satily.

460
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 5: They did with eggs eight they did with eggs.

461
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 4: Everybody was telling me when eggs were five ninety nine

462
00:22:29,759 --> 00:22:31,240
or four ninety nine for a back of twelve that

463
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,440
they're not They're never going back down, that this was

464
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:34,240
the new standard.

465
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, but they did. They're a buck ninety nine.

466
00:22:36,759 --> 00:22:39,880
Now do go on, God, useless?

467
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 1: Are you are you buying those old eggs where you

468
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,799
open it up and there's like a baby chicken inside?

469
00:22:43,839 --> 00:22:46,319
I mean, eggs aren't that cheap. But I'm in California

470
00:22:46,519 --> 00:22:50,240
where you're sight that Gus had fallen to four dollars

471
00:22:50,279 --> 00:22:52,480
a gallon, so I was like, wow, I gotta take

472
00:22:52,519 --> 00:22:54,720
a picture of the pump. It's four dollars a gallon.

473
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, but you know, I guess, you know, I guess

474
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:57,599
is going up though, don't you.

475
00:22:59,039 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: Actually it's going down California. But that's because people. I

476
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,799
don't know why. Actually why it's gone down. I think

477
00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:06,240
because there's more oil being produced by the United States

478
00:23:06,279 --> 00:23:08,119
and coming onto the market, which is great.

479
00:23:08,519 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 4: Well, there's been a thirty thirty Well there's been a

480
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,240
thirty cent jump recently. Part of that may be do

481
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,039
switching over to different blends, part of that may be whatever.

482
00:23:17,079 --> 00:23:19,240
But what the instability in the oil market because of

483
00:23:19,319 --> 00:23:21,880
Russian production is a whole interesting asset we can get

484
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,799
to later anyway. So no, yes, gas is not where

485
00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:27,519
it was. Eggs have come down, and I'm not buying

486
00:23:27,519 --> 00:23:28,839
the discount dollar store eggs.

487
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,079
Speaker 2: I'm buying them farm fresh.

488
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 4: Your be more expensive because California has laws to say

489
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,920
that each chicken has to have seventy five yards in

490
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,319
which to walk or something like that.

491
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's more space than a studio apartment in

492
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:40,839
San Francisco.

493
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,519
Speaker 5: These eggsactly, exactly right, exactly right. But it doesn't feed

494
00:23:44,599 --> 00:23:46,160
does it. It's a feel thing.

495
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,839
Speaker 4: It's whether or not people feel that things have gotten better.

496
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,839
And apparently this you know, the polls are showing that

497
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,039
they don't, which I don't think is actually a reflection

498
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:55,720
of reality.

499
00:23:57,079 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think. I think it's hard for political

500
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,279
leaders to plane that you can get inflation under control,

501
00:24:03,599 --> 00:24:05,720
but that just means prices are going to grow most

502
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,240
more slowly and that your salaries would keep up. The

503
00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:12,200
thing and Biden never was able to handle this is

504
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,319
that wages did not go up as fast as prices,

505
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,640
So people were getting real wage cuts throughout the Biden

506
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,400
presidency and it may be going on. We still might

507
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,880
be living with the overhang of that during the beginning

508
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,559
of the Trump administration, just like remember Reagan, we were

509
00:24:26,599 --> 00:24:28,720
around for that. Reagan had to take drastic measures to

510
00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:31,200
kill off inflation. He got clobbered in the eighty two

511
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,680
elections because it took, yeah, three years basically for the

512
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,000
real results of those tough measures to come into effect. Now,

513
00:24:38,039 --> 00:24:42,079
the problem is, I don't see Trump and anyone in

514
00:24:42,079 --> 00:24:45,640
Congress wanting to reduce spending and so right, that's going

515
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,200
to still keep inflating the economy. Inflation might be just

516
00:24:48,279 --> 00:24:51,319
under three percent now, but you could see it continuing

517
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,799
to get worse, and you could see these measures just

518
00:24:53,799 --> 00:24:56,559
being short term unless they take some, you know, dramatic

519
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,480
structural changes. Because look, if you reduce them on supply

520
00:25:00,839 --> 00:25:04,079
lower interest rates the way Trump wants, and you keep

521
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,039
engaging in humongous deficit spending, inflation is going to still

522
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:09,839
keep going up. It's going to be worse.

523
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, two plus two is always going to be four.

524
00:25:12,839 --> 00:25:14,759
Speaker 6: And it doesn't help matters if you're going to send

525
00:25:14,759 --> 00:25:18,119
everybody a two thousand dollars check. But you know, whatever

526
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,599
you want to call it, that's that's basically Bidenomics again.

527
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,319
Speaker 1: I mean, unless unless you get it in McDonald's gift

528
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,720
cards like the students gave me in Arizona. See I

529
00:25:26,759 --> 00:25:26,920
do that.

530
00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 6: Those nice they know you, they know you're you are

531
00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:32,960
literally definition of cheap date. If I look at my

532
00:25:33,519 --> 00:25:35,799
dictionary under cheap date, I see a picture of John,

533
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:37,920
I hear.

534
00:25:37,799 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 1: The mcribs back man, everyone knows where to take me.

535
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,279
Speaker 4: Here's the thing that if you if you wait a second, Rubb,

536
00:25:44,319 --> 00:25:46,839
if you order that make rib in some selected restaurants,

537
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:48,519
you'll notice, of course, you're not going to talk to

538
00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:49,079
a human being.

539
00:25:49,079 --> 00:25:49,799
Speaker 5: You're going up to a.

540
00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 4: Kiosk, right, and you're using that that incredibly germ flecked thing.

541
00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:57,079
I always love to see people punching the kiosk thing

542
00:25:57,079 --> 00:25:59,559
with their index finger that they will then later use

543
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,880
to strack the French fry and eat it. I mean,

544
00:26:02,599 --> 00:26:04,759
I'm not a germfull but no, use your knuckle, buddy,

545
00:26:04,839 --> 00:26:07,119
use your knuckle. But I saw a great story about

546
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,920
New York, which has of course instituted all kinds of

547
00:26:10,039 --> 00:26:12,480
high wages for people who stand behind the counter and

548
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,079
punch things into a computer into a pad. That some

549
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,200
of these places are no longer using actual cashiers. They

550
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,119
have a video screen, and behind the video screen is

551
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,440
somebody from the Philippines who's paid about eighty cents an hour.

552
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 5: So they get around the whole high cost.

553
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 4: Of things by putting in a video screen that pipes

554
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,759
a person from Manila in there and volah.

555
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 5: It's almost like it's an unintended consequence of raising the

556
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,960
cost of doing business a great deal, and then people

557
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,680
complain that the jobs have fled anyway, So that's my

558
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,079
thing about McDonald's Robbi. You're going to say about it, well,

559
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:47,839
I just could.

560
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:48,759
Speaker 2: Go back for a minute. I mean.

561
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 6: I I because you when you mentioned the productivity gains,

562
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:02,160
the productivity gains that we experienced for fifteen twenty years

563
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,319
slowly from somewhere around late nineties, mid to late nineties

564
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,839
to two thousand and something, that were brought upon by

565
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,880
computing and the Internet and all sorts of a decentralized,

566
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:21,279
distributed sort of thinking. We had a hard time digesting them.

567
00:27:21,519 --> 00:27:24,359
In many ways, we have not yet digested them. But

568
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,319
the productivity gains that are going to happen are are

569
00:27:27,319 --> 00:27:32,359
happening now with AI, are happening massively and measured in months,

570
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,799
and so they are measured in a time in a

571
00:27:35,839 --> 00:27:38,359
time frame that we have never experienced before, and a

572
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,640
workforce has never experienced before.

573
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 2: And that is not.

574
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 6: That is not a recipe for stability. And the strangest

575
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,079
thing about American politics for the you know, I don't know,

576
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,519
since nineteen ninety four, we'll say, just because since since

577
00:27:54,599 --> 00:28:00,680
New gingriche won that historic house you know, midterm and

578
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,880
the Republicans took back took control of the of the

579
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,839
House of the House for the first time in half

580
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,640
a century. A Marion Popkins has been incredibly volatile that

581
00:28:10,799 --> 00:28:13,759
it swings back and forth. We've had like speakers of

582
00:28:13,799 --> 00:28:16,839
that more Speakers of the House in the past decades

583
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,200
than we had before we had growing up it was

584
00:28:19,279 --> 00:28:23,240
just Tip O'Neil, right, And that volatility was not necessarily

585
00:28:23,279 --> 00:28:26,839
reflected in a cultural volatility. I mean, Americans still kind

586
00:28:26,839 --> 00:28:28,759
of went to work and you know, things were changing,

587
00:28:28,799 --> 00:28:31,920
but it did not reflect it would seemed to be

588
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,480
this weird circus going on in DC. And I think

589
00:28:36,519 --> 00:28:38,480
that's going to change, and unfortunately, I think I don't

590
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,440
think we're ready for it. I think right at the

591
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,960
time that we need sort of sort of sober, thoughtful, compassionate,

592
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,839
but realistic leadership where we're going to have real volatility

593
00:28:49,839 --> 00:28:52,000
in the workforce and real volatility in our economy.

594
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,799
Speaker 2: I don't think there's anybody in d C right now

595
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,319
who has the character, really.

596
00:28:58,839 --> 00:29:02,119
Speaker 6: Two or the credibility to speak to the American people

597
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,200
as a whole and tell them the truth, which is

598
00:29:05,119 --> 00:29:06,920
going to be that the future is going to be

599
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,799
a little rougher than the past. And that's a new

600
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,079
concept for Americans, not necessarily forever. But I don't think

601
00:29:14,079 --> 00:29:17,319
that we're prepared as a nation, as a modern nation,

602
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,200
for this kind of change. I really don't, and you

603
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,200
just see it all the time. There's radical, radical changes

604
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,079
in the workforce because of AI. And you can't pass

605
00:29:28,119 --> 00:29:31,440
a law to repeal the future, and you can't build

606
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,799
a wall to keep technology out. It's just going to

607
00:29:33,839 --> 00:29:36,039
come in and we just have to be prepared for it.

608
00:29:36,039 --> 00:29:36,799
And I don't think we are.

609
00:29:37,119 --> 00:29:39,359
Speaker 4: If only there was some smart, charismatic tech guy who

610
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,160
understood AI down to the bones and was launching his

611
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,440
own effort in that way, who was in government somehow.

612
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 5: Oh, we had one of those, and he gave a

613
00:29:46,519 --> 00:29:47,319
Nazi salute.

614
00:29:47,359 --> 00:29:54,359
Speaker 4: So never mind that, Johnny, you were about to say something,

615
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,200
But I have to tell you that as long as

616
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:57,599
we have you here, we.

617
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,799
Speaker 5: Got to ask you actual point of law.

618
00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had get our moneys were that No, you

619
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:03,559
know what that.

620
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 4: We do because I've been told I'm to ask you

621
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,359
about equal protection versus v R.

622
00:30:09,119 --> 00:30:10,359
Speaker 5: And I have no idea.

623
00:30:10,599 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 4: I have no idea A big important case school is

624
00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:17,640
all Professor, you can I.

625
00:30:17,599 --> 00:30:19,319
Speaker 1: Just say one last thing about what Rob was saying

626
00:30:19,319 --> 00:30:21,640
first before I answer your question. Just one real is

627
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,559
that's what connects all this to the guys in DC,

628
00:30:25,839 --> 00:30:30,839
this humongous intra conservative fight about Kevin Roberts and heritage

629
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,759
and Tucker and you know Nick fuent Days and whether

630
00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:38,240
there's Nazism in the Conservative movement. These are all the

631
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,559
same responses you saw the last time there was this

632
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,519
huge change, this revolution that Rob's talking about, which was

633
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,759
nationalization of the economy in the Industrial revolution the turn

634
00:30:47,799 --> 00:30:52,039
of the last century. And you saw a huge changing economy,

635
00:30:52,039 --> 00:30:55,519
and you saw populism rise, and you saw right exactly

636
00:30:55,559 --> 00:30:58,680
this anti semitism, and you saw and there were even

637
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,559
religious leaders like Fatherlin, which it will not be Rob.

638
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,240
Rob could be the next Father Cofflin, but I don't know,

639
00:31:04,279 --> 00:31:06,599
he might go a different direction. But you saw these

640
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,839
q long, these populous leaders FDR who responded to this

641
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,400
and figured out how to appeal to people who are

642
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,480
dislocated from out of work, from dislocated comedy. But anyway,

643
00:31:19,599 --> 00:31:22,880
the law, this is a huge Supreme Court term. Now

644
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,400
I know every time you have me on, I go

645
00:31:24,519 --> 00:31:27,160
this is a huge Supreme Court term. But this is

646
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,200
really a big one. The last case from last week,

647
00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:32,920
just the tariffs, we may not even remember that case

648
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,440
by the time this term is over. So one of

649
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,359
the big cases you've asked about is this case called

650
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,640
Louisiana versus Calais, which is about whether a very important

651
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,079
part of the Voting Rights Act is constitutional anymore. And

652
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,160
it does involve the California redistricting and all these other

653
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,079
redistrictings that are going on right now to increase House

654
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,559
delegations for Republicans or for Democrats, because the Voting Rights

655
00:31:57,559 --> 00:32:02,960
Act basically says there should no longer be barriers to

656
00:32:03,079 --> 00:32:06,680
people to vote based on race. That's basically what the

657
00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:10,680
Voting Rights Act is about. And you can see after

658
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,079
the Jim Crow South engaged in all kinds of ridiculous

659
00:32:15,119 --> 00:32:18,799
things to try to prevent blacks from voting or diluting

660
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:24,519
their votes, the government responded with measures that would never

661
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:28,079
normally be allowed. One of them was struck down about

662
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,480
ten years ago, which said that any Southern state that

663
00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:35,559
wanted to change any voting rule, anything involving elections, that

664
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,839
had to get an approval from a federal court or

665
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,279
the Justice Department. That's incredible. There's nothing like that in

666
00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:43,079
any other area. Law that got struck down by the

667
00:32:43,079 --> 00:32:47,279
Supreme Court. Much whaling and rending of garments. I'm speaking

668
00:32:47,319 --> 00:32:49,119
in the language that Rob understands.

669
00:32:49,119 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: Thank you.

670
00:32:51,279 --> 00:32:55,759
Speaker 1: And then but still, what the Justice Department courts have

671
00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:58,960
been forcing southern primarily Southern states to do, but it

672
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,440
applies to the states all over the country, is to

673
00:33:02,519 --> 00:33:06,519
try to draw congressional districts in states to maximize the

674
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,640
number of minorities that get elected. That I think is

675
00:33:11,319 --> 00:33:14,279
offensive to minorities because the thing, like, I'm a minority.

676
00:33:14,319 --> 00:33:16,680
I don't feel like all Asians vote the same way.

677
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,319
If we did, I'd be really worried if we did

678
00:33:19,359 --> 00:33:21,440
all vote the same way. I don't think blacks all

679
00:33:21,519 --> 00:33:24,039
vote the same way, or you white guys, you guys

680
00:33:24,119 --> 00:33:27,039
just definitely don't vote all the same way. But that's

681
00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:30,200
the theory underlying this part of the Voting Rights Act

682
00:33:30,279 --> 00:33:34,200
is oh compact all the blacks into one district in

683
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,640
the South, and then they'll elect a black member of Congress.

684
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,640
Why that's the purpose of the constitution or should be

685
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,240
the point of federal law is beyond me. All that

686
00:33:42,359 --> 00:33:45,759
I think the law says is stop any barriers to

687
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,279
people voting. So this law, this case that you mentioned, James,

688
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,279
asks whether that part of the Voting Rights Act or

689
00:33:52,279 --> 00:33:54,640
the way it's being enforced, at least should be thrown out,

690
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:59,160
which would overturn Yeah, about sixty years of president if

691
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,519
going back all the way to practice, all the way

692
00:34:01,519 --> 00:34:04,799
back to the civil rights movement. But that's just the

693
00:34:04,839 --> 00:34:07,960
first of a whole series of huge, blockbuster cases coming

694
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,960
down the road, which could do a lot to determine

695
00:34:11,039 --> 00:34:13,360
the success of the Trump administration, for example, for the

696
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,280
rest of the next two years, three years.

697
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 5: Rob or just no more can be said.

698
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,079
Speaker 6: You know, they say unto you, truly, truly, I tell you, John,

699
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:29,679
I think you're correct. I mean, it's funny about the outcome.

700
00:34:30,519 --> 00:34:35,480
Basing your legal philosophy on outcomes and using outcomes as

701
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,840
the metric for whether it's true, fair, or true or not.

702
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,000
It's such a strange way to think, and it only

703
00:34:42,039 --> 00:34:44,320
comes from people who believe that they're always going to

704
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:49,360
be in charge. And it's surprising to me is that

705
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,920
the history of American politics is if there's anything you

706
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,920
can say about it is that you're not always going

707
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,119
to be in charge. And the reason that we have

708
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,119
the rules is because you're not always going to be

709
00:34:58,119 --> 00:35:02,360
in charge. And I think that we have this. Certainly

710
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,800
we do this. I mean you get any college class,

711
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,519
certainly the most college classes all was I went to,

712
00:35:07,559 --> 00:35:09,679
and I'm sure what they try to tell you is

713
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,599
that there's some systemic evil that's permanent.

714
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,639
Speaker 2: It started in sixteen nineteen. I'm just to use a number,

715
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,880
and it's it's and it's always going to be there.

716
00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:23,559
Speaker 6: And so it's okay to bend the rules and twist

717
00:35:23,559 --> 00:35:25,840
the rules because we're never going to be in charge,

718
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,079
and we're not in charge now, We've never been in charge,

719
00:35:28,079 --> 00:35:30,159
and the system is always the way it is. And

720
00:35:30,199 --> 00:35:33,320
the problem is that then you have moments like the

721
00:35:34,159 --> 00:35:37,199
court cases that the John was citing that seemed to

722
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,079
just simply respond to seem to just reiterate the fact

723
00:35:41,079 --> 00:35:43,840
that you can't you can't make a law based on

724
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,320
an outcome, and the people who have been living that

725
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,599
way go absolutely bananas. So you read, if you read

726
00:35:50,639 --> 00:35:54,199
the New York Times, the headlines are always a Supreme

727
00:35:54,280 --> 00:36:01,599
Court sets back civil rights. Sure, the conservative Republican Department

728
00:36:01,599 --> 00:36:07,679
of Justice turns the clock back on civil rights. And

729
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,039
then you get you know, you read the third paragraph

730
00:36:10,039 --> 00:36:13,400
and you realize it's not true. But this apocalyptic need

731
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,480
to make even your tiny little adjustments or even your

732
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,480
major adjustments that are not legal somehow not only legal,

733
00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:24,039
but imperative, not only imperative, but morally important, not only

734
00:36:24,039 --> 00:36:27,119
morally important, but if not happened, but a return to

735
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,760
Jim Crow, if not enforced, you know, first of all,

736
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,280
exhausts everybody. So those that language no longer has any power,

737
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,239
it creates a reaction formation, which we're seeing now on

738
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,320
the right and I think parts of sort of the

739
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,400
extreme left, and it just it corrupts the currency of

740
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,800
the law, the currency of the language, which we're you know,

741
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,679
that's that's all we have at the end of the day, right,

742
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,800
I mean, I mean, John, I'm sure I would get

743
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,159
an F in your class. But what I'm always struck

744
00:36:59,199 --> 00:37:05,199
by the Supreme Court is that the Supreme Court decided

745
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,920
it had the power to review legislation in Marbury versus Madison.

746
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,840
It just it chose that for itself and it made sense.

747
00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:15,440
And so that's what it's got. And if we sort

748
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,880
of let the language be sort of debased and the

749
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,960
way we talk about rights and civil rights be debased

750
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,199
like that, I think, you know, we end up where

751
00:37:27,199 --> 00:37:29,639
we are now, which is that people screaming at each

752
00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:33,480
other about essentially nothing and certainly not the law. I

753
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,320
mean that was a very rambling way of agreeing with John,

754
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,000
which I'm sure he would.

755
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I can first of all, Rob, yeah

756
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,679
you get f I don't because I would suspect you

757
00:37:42,679 --> 00:37:45,559
of using AI to do all your exam answers anyway, that.

758
00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:46,199
Speaker 2: Is a concern.

759
00:37:47,039 --> 00:37:49,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh no, I don't know. We don't know how

760
00:37:49,199 --> 00:37:51,360
to fix it. Actually, actually you know what we're doing.

761
00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:54,320
We're bringing back blue books written exams.

762
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:55,639
Speaker 2: That's what I've been saying.

763
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 1: Yes, we have, we have been. We have been bringing

764
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,039
back the blue book exam and timed examed sessions. And

765
00:38:02,039 --> 00:38:04,400
you're in the room with everybody else and writing in pencil.

766
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:04,679
Speaker 2: Now.

767
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: So AI has forced us back to the educational stone age.

768
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,239
But can I just make that point what the Rob

769
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,760
actually makes a very important point about judicial review, which is,

770
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,119
you know, the courts don't have any power to back

771
00:38:18,199 --> 00:38:21,280
up what they say. So right, the President has the sword,

772
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,320
as Hamilton said, and the Congress has the purse. What

773
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,519
does the court have. It can't compel any of us

774
00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:30,400
to bay it. It only has This is Alexander Hamilton's

775
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,639
famous words. It says, it only has reason. It can

776
00:38:33,639 --> 00:38:36,559
only persuade us that it reached the right answer, and

777
00:38:36,599 --> 00:38:41,000
we voluntarily obey the courts. And I think Rob's right.

778
00:38:41,119 --> 00:38:43,960
The left has been on this campaign to devalue the

779
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,920
meaning of language and to make everything relative, and the

780
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,159
more they succeed, then the more force becomes the way

781
00:38:51,199 --> 00:38:54,480
our society governs itself, not persuasion and argument, because the

782
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:55,480
words don't mean anything.

783
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 4: Well, if the system does not provide the desired results,

784
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,880
then the system is illegitimate, must be changed, ignored, or.

785
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:02,559
Speaker 5: Done away with.

786
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,039
Speaker 4: Also on the docket or maybe coming up, I should

787
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:08,119
say there's another strike.

788
00:39:08,159 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 2: I think it's twenty strikes now.

789
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,559
Speaker 4: And the guys who are driving boats out of Venezuela,

790
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:13,840
I think the New York Times did a profile and said, well,

791
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,800
they're not cartel members. I mean they don't have they

792
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,559
don't have cards, right the tattoo.

793
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,119
Speaker 2: They don't. They don't get benefits, but you know they're

794
00:39:23,159 --> 00:39:24,679
just working for friends.

795
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,119
Speaker 4: Say that, yes, he moved a lot of drugs from

796
00:39:27,159 --> 00:39:28,800
here to there, but you know he just had to.

797
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 2: He loved bowl, he was a fan of.

798
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 4: Okay, fine, so they've whacked about twenty of these things,

799
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:41,280
and the Democrats are appalled and I'm sure the fig

800
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:42,840
leave is that they are appalled by the extra what

801
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,800
they perceive to be the extra legality of it. But

802
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,679
I think it's just the general idea of what they're

803
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,960
doing is, you know, we're being mean to these guys.

804
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,599
And there will be a court challenge, John, won't There

805
00:39:51,639 --> 00:39:56,039
will there not be some something that floats up some

806
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,719
I mean, I don't imagine the survivors of one of

807
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:03,239
the Venezuelan power Vot's be an outstanding, but what can

808
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:04,239
we expect on this fraud?

809
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: So, James, eventually, I think you're right, there will be

810
00:40:07,559 --> 00:40:09,360
a case. It probably will work its way to the

811
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,519
Supreme Court. Remember, we have faced a similar issue. I

812
00:40:12,559 --> 00:40:14,519
was at the Justice Department on nine to eleven and

813
00:40:14,559 --> 00:40:16,679
we had to make a similar decision. Can we have

814
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,760
war against the terrorist group not a state. We've always

815
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,280
had wars against other nations. And in nine to eleven,

816
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,360
the last thing people would have thought of is, well,

817
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,519
two years from now, will there be a Supreme Court

818
00:40:29,559 --> 00:40:32,039
case that will challenge all the decisions we make? But

819
00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:36,360
there was because we captured somebody and that person wanted

820
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,480
to be released and brought a case that made it

821
00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:41,440
always Supreme Court. You could see that happening here. There

822
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,320
could be survivors that will be brought on board and

823
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,800
then they'll file to be released. Or the family members

824
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,559
are the people who are killed, they could sue and

825
00:40:49,599 --> 00:40:51,719
that could get to the Supreme Court. And this is

826
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,079
actually was a subject of my talk at the University

827
00:40:54,079 --> 00:40:57,400
of Arizona this week, which I gave unusually not at

828
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,119
a law school, not at the school at Divinity, but

829
00:41:00,199 --> 00:41:01,800
in the engineering department.

830
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 2: The division school guaranteed.

831
00:41:04,559 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: That why wouldn't be rolled out and attacked? Does the

832
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:09,480
resident utilitarian come.

833
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 2: Ond, Well, you've struck by lightning.

834
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,599
Speaker 1: So the this is a really difficult but very important question,

835
00:41:17,679 --> 00:41:21,239
but I think it has actually a straightforward, simple answer.

836
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,760
In the end, we can't be at war with every

837
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,280
drug cartel, drug gang, drug runner, right drug seller on

838
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,519
the street corner. There's a line between what's war and crime.

839
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,920
Crime is governed by the Bill of Rights and all

840
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,480
the protections that the courts have, you know, labored to

841
00:41:38,559 --> 00:41:41,760
build for every criminal suspect. When Rob gets pulled over

842
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,360
speeding between New York and Princeton, you know, back and forth,

843
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,400
you have all these protections. The government can't say, oh,

844
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,039
a lot of people are killed by speeders on the highway,

845
00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:54,960
So we're just gonna use military force on speeders, right,

846
00:41:55,119 --> 00:41:57,400
Just because something causes harm to the country doesn't mean

847
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,519
it's war and that you can use military force. It's

848
00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:06,159
reserved for enemies. So I don't think that drugs strikes

849
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:11,199
just on every drug boat are actually legal. I don't

850
00:42:11,199 --> 00:42:14,440
even But here's why I think there's a straightforward answer.

851
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,639
I think we're really at war with Venezuela. We're at

852
00:42:17,639 --> 00:42:21,519
war with another nation, Venezuela. We're not war with drug dealers,

853
00:42:21,559 --> 00:42:24,920
because if we were, we would be bombing fedinol factories

854
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,840
in Mexico. That's where the real harms come from. The

855
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,840
drug boats. Apparently these drugs are headed for Europe. They're

856
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,119
not even headed for the United States. If we really are, though,

857
00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:39,599
at war with Venezuela and the yeah, it's like a

858
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:43,760
one hundred percent terror right, And the head of the

859
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,559
head of Venezuela's also head of one of these drug cartels,

860
00:42:46,559 --> 00:42:48,840
and the drug cartels are like an arm of the

861
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,000
Venezuelan government and the Venezuelan intelligence. Then actually, legally this

862
00:42:53,079 --> 00:42:56,280
is very simple and straightforward. Where we're in Venezuela, and

863
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,920
we're attacking elements of the Venezuelan government and armed force,

864
00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:01,159
which is totally legal.

865
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:02,559
Speaker 2: In a way.

866
00:43:02,679 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 6: It just it's nice that we have somebody here on

867
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,679
this podcast who is part of this argument. So it

868
00:43:09,079 --> 00:43:11,159
in just to go back to two thousand and one,

869
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,800
two thousand and two in a way. So Venezuela, the

870
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:20,239
government of Venezuela, is in your argument like the government

871
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:21,199
of Afghanistan.

872
00:43:21,679 --> 00:43:23,159
Speaker 1: It is, yes, it is.

873
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 6: The large, it is the it is the organizational name

874
00:43:26,559 --> 00:43:30,880
for a bad actor, and it is their bad luck

875
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:36,440
that they can't they can't legally define blowing up a

876
00:43:36,519 --> 00:43:41,119
Venezuelan boat or invading Afghanistan as a police action, right,

877
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:42,679
because that was the big question.

878
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,679
Speaker 2: Then was it a action as a military action? Well?

879
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 1: I think also the reason they're doing this is that

880
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,679
they don't politically want to say to the American people,

881
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,119
we're at war, right this president doesn't want to start

882
00:43:53,159 --> 00:43:55,840
any new wars, so we are conducted. We have the

883
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,800
most modern American aircraft carrier that gerald Ford is sitting

884
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,880
offshore of Venezuela right now. Like we have a huge

885
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,480
military force that's trying to coerce them to get rid

886
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,239
of Modera Maduro. That is, you know, Joe Ford is

887
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,039
not going to be helpful chasing little outboard boats, you know,

888
00:44:10,079 --> 00:44:12,840
like Rob's pleasure craft from his you know, prep school

889
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,159
days around the lake because they might have drugs in it.

890
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 2: I mean, just for the record, it definitely did.

891
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: Right. It's not it's not you know, for you know,

892
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,599
it's good at you know, attacking other countries armed forces

893
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:29,960
and overthrown regime maybe, but not for chasing down you know,

894
00:44:30,039 --> 00:44:33,480
small pleasure crafts concealing drugs. So yeah, I think your

895
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,239
work exactly are we we It is a war, but

896
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,760
politically the president doesn't want to call it the war.

897
00:44:40,119 --> 00:44:42,280
But when you look at all the elements of what's happening,

898
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,159
it looks to me like a war. And that's legal,

899
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,159
so he has a legal problem.

900
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,079
Speaker 6: Let me let me let me ask you this as

901
00:44:49,079 --> 00:44:51,519
a law professor, I'm your student getting an f and

902
00:44:51,519 --> 00:44:54,679
I'm just trying to make you like me again. Is

903
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,400
the question is do I have I am my summing

904
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,079
up the situation accurately or something accurately what we're really

905
00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:04,239
talking about? And I believe this is also the case

906
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,239
in Afghanistan and definitely an interact. But uh and in

907
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,159
Venezuela's what we're talking about is is in fact an

908
00:45:11,199 --> 00:45:16,760
international but still a police action. The there is no

909
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,760
legal legal ability for the president to do this, so

910
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,360
he is calling it a police that he's keeping it

911
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,320
murky because he can't call it a police action because

912
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,239
that's illegal. If he called it a war, that'd be

913
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,239
perfectly legal, But he can't call it a war because

914
00:45:31,639 --> 00:45:34,440
politically that's untenable for this process, and so he's in

915
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,519
this weird he can't call it anything.

916
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:42,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, how about special military operation? Right? Right?

917
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 6: But I mean you have to invent some kind of

918
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,280
weasel word so that you can thread the needle between

919
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,079
the thing that you can't do politically and the thing

920
00:45:49,079 --> 00:45:50,039
that you can't do legally.

921
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,559
Speaker 2: Is that a fair assumption? Is that a fair and

922
00:45:52,639 --> 00:45:53,280
that's yes.

923
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,679
Speaker 1: And because of that, that's what's causing all these legal

924
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,840
doubts and will cause right soldiers and agents to say,

925
00:46:00,159 --> 00:46:02,920
you know, and I am I allowed to do this? Right?

926
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,480
And that's in fact happened after nine to eleven there

927
00:46:05,519 --> 00:46:08,679
were soldiers and agency said, are we allowed to legally

928
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,320
fight al Caeda? Or you know, is this like pre

929
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,159
nine eleven where we would, you know, catch suspects and

930
00:46:14,199 --> 00:46:16,840
bring them back to the US for trial, not shoot

931
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,480
them with drones. And so part of what Trump's not doing,

932
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,480
which we had to do then, was we went to

933
00:46:21,559 --> 00:46:24,440
Congress and explained it all and got Congress to pass

934
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,119
a law authorizing it. So that when we all this

935
00:46:27,159 --> 00:46:30,960
got challenges in court, that became extremely important. The Supreme

936
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,760
Court's not going to second guests the President and Congress

937
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,679
in wartime when they agree. But here this might not happen.

938
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,599
So this might be legally more problematic unless, as Rob says,

939
00:46:41,639 --> 00:46:43,480
the President comes out in public and says we are

940
00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:45,159
at war with Venezuela.

941
00:46:44,639 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 6: And admits what And I'm just thinking the analogy here,

942
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,639
the comparison to me right now, because we brought it

943
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:54,079
up earlier and I'm still mad about Obamacare, the Obama administry.

944
00:46:54,079 --> 00:46:55,559
You kept saying, this is not a tax, this is

945
00:46:55,599 --> 00:46:58,840
not a tax, this is not a tax, and I

946
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,800
think this is what happened and to the Supreme Court

947
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:02,360
and they said, oh, by the way, it's a tax,

948
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:03,639
because I know we can't do that.

949
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 2: And then the Supreme Court.

950
00:47:07,119 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 6: Agreed with them, said yeah, it's a tax, and then

951
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,760
they could they could do it because.

952
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 2: They argued in court that it was. They argued in

953
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,199
court that it was.

954
00:47:14,159 --> 00:47:19,599
Speaker 6: A thing that they absolutely denied it was in public exactly.

955
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,320
And so in this case, we're going to have a

956
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,239
president arguing in court if it gets there, that he's

957
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,679
doing a thing that he's allowed to do because he's

958
00:47:26,679 --> 00:47:28,480
the president of commander in chief and it's a war.

959
00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:33,159
But that he but publicly he won't say that.

960
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,119
Speaker 1: Is that I hadn't thought of that parallel, But that's

961
00:47:36,119 --> 00:47:40,280
exactly true. That, yes, that happened in Obamacare. Politically, they

962
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,360
said it wasn't a tax, but when they got to

963
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,000
the Supreme Court, they argued that the Obamacare system was

964
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,760
all built on this coercive tax to force people to

965
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,199
buy health insurance. And the Supreme Court, you know, you know,

966
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:57,159
Rob's favorite Chief Justice Justice, Chief Justice and squish John Roberts,

967
00:47:57,599 --> 00:48:03,639
agreed with Rob. Greed with Rob, and yes, uh ull

968
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,039
Pell's time, and yeah, that's that's unfortunately happening here. I

969
00:48:07,079 --> 00:48:09,039
think you're right Rob, that he doesn't want to politically

970
00:48:09,039 --> 00:48:11,760
call it a war. All the things he's doing are

971
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,000
warlike actions. And if it goes to court, that's the

972
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:15,960
first thing the administration is going to say, and in fact,

973
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,480
this is already happening. Remember we talked about this earlier

974
00:48:18,639 --> 00:48:23,719
months ago, the case of the Venezuelan right deportes who

975
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,639
are sent to El Salvador. That's being litigated right now

976
00:48:26,679 --> 00:48:30,480
and in court right now under oath that Trump administration

977
00:48:30,599 --> 00:48:33,039
is saying we are at war with Venezuela, and that

978
00:48:33,119 --> 00:48:35,119
we are and Maduro is the head of a drug

979
00:48:35,159 --> 00:48:37,960
cartel and the head of Venezuela, and because of that,

980
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,800
we can trigger something called the Alien Enemies Act, which

981
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,920
applies only in war time, and kick every Venezuelan out

982
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:44,519
of the country.

983
00:48:44,639 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 5: Well, we also have.

984
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,199
Speaker 4: The administration today or yesterday or recently declaring Antifa to

985
00:48:49,199 --> 00:48:52,639
be a terrorist organization and also declaring a whole bunch

986
00:48:52,639 --> 00:48:55,599
of Antifa adjacent organizations in other countries to be foreign

987
00:48:55,639 --> 00:48:58,960
terrorist organizations. Does this mean then that we can use

988
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:03,679
the Venezuelan example and start using military force to go

989
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,960
after them or is that bright dividing line still in

990
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:07,840
place Domestically?

991
00:49:08,079 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: I think that's another species of what Rob was just

992
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,960
talking about, but in the other direction here, I think

993
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:18,280
the Trump administration is rhetorically over promising when the law

994
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,760
doesn't allow it. It doesn't make any difference for our

995
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,480
domestic law whether the President wants to call Antifa a

996
00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:29,039
terrorist group or not. The criminal laws just apply to

997
00:49:29,119 --> 00:49:33,039
them normally. Whether what they did was they also designate

998
00:49:33,079 --> 00:49:38,639
all these foreign Antifa groups as terrorist organizations. That does

999
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,599
give the government a lot more power against them abroad,

1000
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:47,480
but I don't think it really changes what's going on domestically.

1001
00:49:47,559 --> 00:49:50,199
I mean, still, the question is can the president call

1002
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:55,400
out right the National Guard to restore order in these

1003
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:59,719
cities where Antifa is using violence to attack federal officers

1004
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:03,719
or block the execution of federal law. Calling them terrorist

1005
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:09,280
organizations or not doesn't change that fundamental question, which also

1006
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,079
is another one you start all this up with the

1007
00:50:11,119 --> 00:50:14,320
Supreme Court. That question is heading steadily to the Supreme

1008
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:18,039
Court too, and may be decided in this term because

1009
00:50:18,079 --> 00:50:21,280
you've got two appellate courts that disagree. Strangely, the one

1010
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:25,360
out here in California says that the government can deploy

1011
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,360
the National Guard to the cities that there is sufficient

1012
00:50:28,639 --> 00:50:34,199
unrest violence domestically in our cities to use military protection

1013
00:50:34,599 --> 00:50:38,440
of the federal government, whereas Chicago, the courts there have

1014
00:50:38,519 --> 00:50:42,280
blocked President Trump so far and not allowing deployment. So

1015
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,639
Rob happens to live in the mid and I'm sorry,

1016
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,320
James happens to live in the Midwest, where I guess

1017
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:49,519
chaos will continue to be rampant.

1018
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 4: That's exactly what I'm experiencing at this very moment, looking

1019
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,639
at the flaming mobs coming down the street now here

1020
00:50:54,679 --> 00:50:56,719
in Minneapolis. Actually it's been quite nice for the last

1021
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:00,239
few days. But still where you mentioned fundamental questions, there's

1022
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:04,320
no more fundamental questions and the things that brother Rob

1023
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,559
grapples with a divinity school. So we're going to ramp

1024
00:51:06,639 --> 00:51:09,360
up by asking him a few things there. First of all,

1025
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:15,320
how are the people in your school viewing what seems

1026
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,440
to be a resurgence of anti Semitism in new places,

1027
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,360
which are of course the same old places.

1028
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:23,559
Speaker 2: But is this much of a discussion? Does this come

1029
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:24,119
to the fore?

1030
00:51:24,599 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 4: Are they aware of it or are they just so

1031
00:51:27,039 --> 00:51:30,519
isolated in their in their you know, theological bubbles up

1032
00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:33,679
there in the Ivory Tower that the vaggaries of methy

1033
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,719
daily politics haven't penetrated up there yet or are they

1034
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:37,960
all next foy inties fans.

1035
00:51:42,519 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 2: Oh are you asking me? I thought you were asking John.

1036
00:51:45,599 --> 00:51:48,320
Speaker 4: Yes, of course I would ask a series of questions

1037
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,159
about things in the theological institution.

1038
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 2: Well, for a minute, I thought you'd have a students.

1039
00:51:52,360 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 6: In general, the benefit of Divinity School, certainly Princeton is

1040
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:07,320
that everybody here has a purpose. Like it's either your

1041
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,760
I mean, sometimes the purpose is you're just a you know,

1042
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,599
an ancient language nerd or an archaeology nerd, and you

1043
00:52:13,679 --> 00:52:16,119
just want to like look at Cuneiform and old Akkadian.

1044
00:52:17,199 --> 00:52:19,920
And sometimes you're just a theology a theologian, and you

1045
00:52:20,039 --> 00:52:21,679
just this is a wonderful system and you want to

1046
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:25,000
like write you know, long multi volume essays on a

1047
00:52:25,559 --> 00:52:28,159
you know, call bart and people like that. But the

1048
00:52:28,159 --> 00:52:30,159
rest of us just are there because we have a purpose,

1049
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,920
and so everything is seen through the lens of what

1050
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:37,440
we want to do with this learning, and that does

1051
00:52:37,559 --> 00:52:40,239
kind of keep things on the rails.

1052
00:52:41,639 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 2: So there's a general you know, and also what we're studying.

1053
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 6: Mostly is everybody everybody who's a student is a professed Christian.

1054
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,880
Is that we struggle with more more more than we

1055
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,320
struggle with societal problems and culture problems, although some people do.

1056
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:08,480
We struggled personal things and your your personal relationship and relationships,

1057
00:53:09,159 --> 00:53:12,360
and that I think also kind of keeps can can

1058
00:53:12,679 --> 00:53:16,199
order the mind and keep people from.

1059
00:53:18,559 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, sit.

1060
00:53:20,639 --> 00:53:24,119
Speaker 6: In encampments and a lot of noisy and you know,

1061
00:53:26,119 --> 00:53:31,880
incredibly aggressive behavior. It's a smaller community, and there isn't

1062
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:36,639
any benefit. There isn't any philosophy that encourages that kind

1063
00:53:36,639 --> 00:53:37,199
of behavior.

1064
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:40,639
Speaker 2: So but you know, it's.

1065
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 6: Interesting because just just because you mentioned Nick Quente's anti semitism,

1066
00:53:46,159 --> 00:53:46,760
it is a.

1067
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,039
Speaker 2: It's something that we all have to think about. Certainly.

1068
00:53:50,039 --> 00:53:51,000
I just came.

1069
00:53:51,079 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 6: I mean, I have my morning class here on Friday.

1070
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,679
Mornings is next to Jesus a John. Gospel of John,

1071
00:53:56,679 --> 00:54:00,719
and John has been used in Good frid A liturgies

1072
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,840
and beyond and and it has been used as a

1073
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:08,760
text John, especially although Matthew too, as a text to

1074
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:14,280
justify incredible anti semitism and unpacking that and sort of

1075
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,199
like trying to un untease the strands of that is

1076
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,639
really really hard and very very difficult.

1077
00:54:20,599 --> 00:54:23,119
Speaker 2: And and and and you can lead you down the

1078
00:54:23,119 --> 00:54:23,599
wrong way.

1079
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 6: And so I don't know, if anything, what we're experiencing

1080
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,079
today in the culture or what we what we or

1081
00:54:32,119 --> 00:54:35,760
the evidence of the the evidence that people are pointing

1082
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:36,800
to I'm not.

1083
00:54:37,159 --> 00:54:39,079
Speaker 2: I'm not. Maybe I'm not quite ready to call it

1084
00:54:39,159 --> 00:54:40,000
a giant crisis.

1085
00:54:40,119 --> 00:54:42,639
Speaker 6: It may be, but I'm not sure it's there yet

1086
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:43,760
or it's gonna get there.

1087
00:54:44,519 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 2: I still have hope that people will, of course correct.

1088
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 6: But all of those things are things that people have

1089
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:52,760
been struggling with forever and and failing at in many ways,

1090
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:53,920
in many instances in history.

1091
00:54:54,280 --> 00:55:01,079
Speaker 2: But it is a This is not new, and it's not.

1092
00:55:02,519 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 6: And it's not something that people haven't been thinking about

1093
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,039
and struggling with for forever.

1094
00:55:07,199 --> 00:55:13,320
Speaker 2: I mean, since the you know, since the beginning, since.

1095
00:55:13,119 --> 00:55:14,599
Speaker 5: Paul right, not new.

1096
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,199
Speaker 4: And I can't imagine that theological institutions are known for

1097
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:22,440
turning like a dime. They're fairly stately organizations, right, That's

1098
00:55:22,519 --> 00:55:24,840
it's it's like getting the Titanic to do a full circle.

1099
00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:27,360
Speaker 2: Depends depends on which one you're talking about.

1100
00:55:28,599 --> 00:55:32,159
Speaker 6: Yeah, the invocation at Yale Divinity School last year apparently

1101
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,119
was a wick In prayer.

1102
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 2: Oh well that's novel, okay, yeah, yeah, so yeah really yeah.

1103
00:55:40,119 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 6: And one of the most popular classes I hold at

1104
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:46,440
Union Theological Seminary, and apparently it's a really good class,

1105
00:55:47,639 --> 00:55:52,679
is witchcraft. But but you could do a concentration in witchcraft,

1106
00:55:53,159 --> 00:55:54,320
which is very strange thing.

1107
00:55:54,599 --> 00:55:58,280
Speaker 4: I mean, your enemy yet, I mean, but it does

1108
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:00,360
seem to be drifting from the central eye is But

1109
00:56:00,519 --> 00:56:03,280
I'm not surprised every institution in the West seems to

1110
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,079
have forgotten why I was founded in the first place,

1111
00:56:05,079 --> 00:56:07,880
which was to protect and advance the West, and instead

1112
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,639
turns on a critique of it, often banal, often juvenile,

1113
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:12,159
or usure.

1114
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 5: But that's how they get there.

1115
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 4: You know, the eternal post nineteen sixties shock, mom and Dad,

1116
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:22,679
everything sucks has become the dominant cultural theme, and until

1117
00:56:22,679 --> 00:56:24,119
we get away from that, we are going to have

1118
00:56:24,159 --> 00:56:26,960
a difficult time of preserving and reviving this great republic

1119
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,639
of ours. On the other hand, if you want to

1120
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:34,000
talk about these things more with actual human beings, you

1121
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,599
the listener, can take a Ricochet cruise. That's right, there's

1122
00:56:36,599 --> 00:56:38,360
going to be a meet up December thirteenth of the

1123
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,320
twenty Ricochet at Sea Hall in America. Lion is going

1124
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,960
to cruise through the Eastern Caribbean. I've taken it many times.

1125
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,760
I absolutely love it. I'd be there if I I'd

1126
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,800
be there if I could. But alas I'm going to

1127
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,480
be elsewhere and also Florida Centric February sixth through the

1128
00:56:52,519 --> 00:56:55,760
eighth Florida Space Coast Space Coast.

1129
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 2: Don't you love the sound of it. They're going to

1130
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:58,880
have a meet up at Cape.

1131
00:56:58,599 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 4: Canaveral and I'm will have to remember when Cape Canaverl

1132
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:02,400
was the actual name.

1133
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:02,639
Speaker 2: Of the thing.

1134
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 4: And I love the fact that we went back to it. No,

1135
00:57:06,119 --> 00:57:09,639
no slight intended JFK. But Cape Canaverl is just just

1136
00:57:09,679 --> 00:57:11,280
baked into the bones and a lot of us that's

1137
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:12,280
you know, that's it's it.

1138
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that I'm just looking at my cat because

1139
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:17,320
I was, I was so spacing on looking at my calendar.

1140
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 2: Oh, that'd be great. Why do I can make that?

1141
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,000
I'm gonna try to make that one. I am too,

1142
00:57:22,039 --> 00:57:23,360
because by February.

1143
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,039
Speaker 4: I think I'm gonna need someplace warm to be with

1144
00:57:25,199 --> 00:57:27,760
what with all that's going on here and ending as well,

1145
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,960
also ending this podcast. That doesn't mean you shouldn't go

1146
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:32,760
to Apple Podcast and give us five stars.

1147
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 2: Boy, we'd appreciate that. That doesn't mean you shouldn't go to

1148
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:36,599
Ricochet dot com. You should.

1149
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 4: You can read the front page for free to listen

1150
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:40,400
to the podcast, but if you sign them for just.

1151
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,679
Speaker 2: A few meager minor coins.

1152
00:57:43,719 --> 00:57:45,719
Speaker 4: You're gonna have access to the member feed, which is

1153
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,039
a whole different community, and it's where friendships form.

1154
00:57:48,719 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 2: The things that we discussed there, there are no limits.

1155
00:57:51,079 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 4: Go there, see what I mean, and and and well

1156
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,400
all see you there. Because I frequently write a Ricochet,

1157
00:57:56,719 --> 00:57:59,480
John you, I know, reads it, and Rob along as

1158
00:57:59,519 --> 00:58:02,039
well as one of the founders of this institution. So

1159
00:58:02,159 --> 00:58:04,360
between the three of us, if that's not three good

1160
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:06,599
reasons to go to Ricochet, don't know what it is.

1161
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:10,159
I'd asked Charles C. W. Cook if we were here today,

1162
00:58:10,199 --> 00:58:12,480
what version of Ricochet we're off. It's probably four point

1163
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:17,639
six point zero seven, always improving, always tinkering, new stuff coming,

1164
00:58:18,079 --> 00:58:20,519
and uh, no matter how much it changes, the basic

1165
00:58:20,599 --> 00:58:23,840
idea mission of Ricoget will always be the same people

1166
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:25,800
there who have skin in the game, as Rob used

1167
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:27,199
to say a long time ago, and it keeps the

1168
00:58:27,199 --> 00:58:31,480
conversation civil and polite and interesting that it's like no

1169
00:58:31,559 --> 00:58:32,440
place else on the web.

1170
00:58:32,639 --> 00:58:34,159
Speaker 2: I mean, James, I think this has been fun. I

1171
00:58:34,159 --> 00:58:35,519
think John, you, I think brother

1172
00:58:35,599 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 4: Rob for joining us today, and we'll see everybody in

1173
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:42,679
the comments said Ricoget four point oh Bye bye bye DIA.