WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:07.320 The Team House with your hosts Jack Murphy and David bark. 2 00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:12.800 Hey. 3 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:15.320 Guys, welcome to episode one hundred and sixty five of 4 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:17.719 The Team House. We're here tonight with Nicholas Moore. He 5 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:20.359 is the author of Run to the Sound of Guns. 6 00:00:20.839 --> 00:00:23.960 He served in second Ranger Battalion from the ranks of 7 00:00:24.039 --> 00:00:27.800 private to platoon sergeant over one thousand missions and thirteen 8 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:30.679 combat deployments, where he was wounded. He was involved in 9 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:35.719 some very significant operations, from Jessica Lynch to Extortion one seven, 10 00:00:36.119 --> 00:00:40.920 to Operation Red Wings the Recovery, to numerous other things 11 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:43.560 that we'll get into tonight. So, Nicholas, thank you for 12 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:44.640 joining us. 13 00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:46.240 Oh, thanks for having me. 14 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:50.240 Absolutely dude, really appreciate you taking some of your Friday 15 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:51.000 to speak with us. 16 00:00:53.799 --> 00:00:54.640 Oh, no worries. 17 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:57.799 So let's start off, man, start, We'll start start at 18 00:00:57.840 --> 00:00:59.719 the beginning, the beginning of the story. If you could 19 00:00:59.719 --> 00:01:02.119 tell us a little bit about, uh, sort of where 20 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:04.319 you grew up and why you. 21 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:06.840 Ended up in the military and why and Ranger Battalion. 22 00:01:09.159 --> 00:01:12.959 So I grew up in Newton, Kansas and you know, 23 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:15.840 just trying to figure out, you know, what to do, 24 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:19.599 and I thought, you know, college sucks. But if I 25 00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:21.120 joined the Army and I want to go to school, 26 00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:24.239 and you know, I serve that I can don't have 27 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:25.920 to take a student loan and I can go and 28 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:28.640 it's all good. And you know, some of us do 29 00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:32.040 it and end up going to school, and some of 30 00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:34.040 us don't and we just end up staying in the military. 31 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:36.680 But the whole thing was, you know, I had a recruiter, 32 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:40.359 you know that just based on the lifestyle that we had, 33 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:43.519 you know, playing sports and being active and out outdoor activities, 34 00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:45.040 hunting fish and all that stuff. He goes, Man, you 35 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:49.959 guys love the Army, but you'll never be happy if 36 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:54.040 you don't pursue the Ranger Regiment. And so you know 37 00:01:54.120 --> 00:01:56.680 that was kind of well what's that? And you know, 38 00:01:56.799 --> 00:01:58.599 so you do a little bit of research and you're like, okay, 39 00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:00.120 well that's definitely what I want to do. 40 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:02.079 And so you know, you. 41 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:05.400 Go and do it. And you know this the old 42 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:08.120 mantra that goes with it. You know, as you continue 43 00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:09.759 to be in the Ranger Regiment, what have you done 44 00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:12.000 for the rage of Regiment today? So you know, there's 45 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.840 always that little aspect, you know, as your career progresses 46 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:18.599 through you know, it's always trying to better you know, 47 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:21.639 against the organization as a whole. 48 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:25.360 Yeah, did you do was any of your family in 49 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:27.879 the military. Was it something that you had been exposed 50 00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:30.960 to earlier than that, or like or is it just 51 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:33.319 kind of it seemed pragmatic at the time. 52 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:39.319 No, my grandfather's both both my grandfathers served in World 53 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:41.039 War Two, and then you know, we've had, you know, 54 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:43.879 family members in the military, but mostly it's always been 55 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:47.080 in the Navy, and I had an aunt who served 56 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:50.840 in the Air Force back in the late seventies, I think, 57 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:55.479 and you know, but nobody really in the army except 58 00:02:55.479 --> 00:02:59.120 for my grandfather's brothers. You know, they were in the 59 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:02.439 Army in World War Two. But you know, we're basically 60 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:04.479 a Navy family. And then me and my brother decided 61 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:06.840 we were both going to join the army and be rangers, 62 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:13.879 and you know, so it was fun. Uh, you know 63 00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:15.800 at that part of it. My grandpa didn't talk to 64 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:18.520 me for like three weeks because he was mad we 65 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:19.400 didn't join the Navy. 66 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:24.800 Okay, so you and your brother, did you like have 67 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:26.520 the same like entry date into the Army? 68 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:27.400 I mean, was it that close? 69 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:30.240 Yeah, we're we're identical twins. So we were at school 70 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:34.400 and went through uh, basic training, everyone school, RIP, and 71 00:03:34.439 --> 00:03:37.919 then got stationed together. So we did it all together 72 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:43.479 all the way until I think four five, and then 73 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:47.960 he went down to his wife, got restationed to Martin 74 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:50.840 Army at Fort Benning and so he went down to 75 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:54.800 be a RIP instructor and and that's kind of where 76 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:57.360 our careers split apart. I stayed at second and then 77 00:03:57.400 --> 00:04:00.159 he moved down to third for a while and then 78 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:02.759 you know, when it is some time in the big 79 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:05.639 Army and finished his career as an ROTC instructor at 80 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:08.199 the University of Kansas. 81 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:11.879 So what at that time, just to hit it up 82 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:15.479 a little bit, going through basic training airborne school, what 83 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:18.800 was the RIP experience like? But that was nineteen ninety nine, 84 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:21.720 pre pre nine to eleven, before the war kicked off. 85 00:04:22.360 --> 00:04:24.439 What was it like going through RIP during that timeframe? 86 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:28.519 Uh, you know, it's a I don't know if it's 87 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:31.920 better or worse because I think about it and it's like, God, 88 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:36.639 would I want to sit and do that for eight weeks? 89 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:39.560 You know? It was Yeah, the whole RASK thing, It's 90 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:42.959 like wow, No, but it was I had I had 91 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:44.839 a lot of fun. There was really a lot of 92 00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:47.920 my ranger experiences that I didn't like. You know, some 93 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:49.439 of them good, some of them bad. But they're all 94 00:04:49.480 --> 00:04:55.279 memories and you know, just just kind of fun. You know. 95 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:58.199 It's always that that mental challenge through some of the things, 96 00:04:58.199 --> 00:05:00.040 you know, can I make it to the end? And 97 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:02.399 you know when you do, you're you're a better human 98 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:04.959 for it, and you're a better ranger all the way around. 99 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:08.199 And you have, you know, a starting point to learn 100 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:09.160 what suck is. 101 00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:14.480 Yeah, so you get out of RIP and you go 102 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:18.439 to the best company in the best battalion. 103 00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:24.800 Yeah, right, BC two seven five right. 104 00:05:24.759 --> 00:05:27.439 Yep, BKO two something went to first platoon. My brother 105 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:31.319 went to third, and so that was always fun. I 106 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:33.519 mean it was always, you know, all the way up 107 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:35.600 until we both got our tabs. You know, it was 108 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:37.439 just you know, who's got the better twin And they 109 00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:40.839 were always you know, putting us, pitting us against each other, 110 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:43.600 and so it's you know, it's nothing changed from school 111 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:46.920 or you know, sports, and so it's just you know. 112 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.839 So two seven five is something something different between two 113 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:53.439 seven five and three seven five, And I believe one 114 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:58.079 seven five is you guys all have platoon names and through. 115 00:05:57.879 --> 00:05:58.959 Something every platoon. 116 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:01.360 But yeah, and three seven five. I think my platoon 117 00:06:01.399 --> 00:06:03.199 was the only one that had a name. But I'd 118 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:05.439 like to hear what your platoon name was and how 119 00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:06.199 it got that name. 120 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:13.079 Well, One Bravo it was. Eventually it became the Sea 121 00:06:13.160 --> 00:06:16.439 Bass and it was just, uh, you know, it was 122 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:18.800 at the same right they tagged it right at you know, 123 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:24.279 the Afghanistan was just cranking off and Austin Powers had 124 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:26.240 just come out, and it was, you know, our pl 125 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:28.720 was calling us a bunch of mutant Sea Bass, and 126 00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:32.759 so it just kind of stuck. And so that was that, 127 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:36.399 and then you know, I was in One Bravo till 128 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:40.839 I till in the middle of three, and then it 129 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:46.480 went over to three Charlie, and uh stayed there till eight. 130 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:52.680 So you you actually were in ranger school during nine 131 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:56.720 to eleven, right, Yeah, so how did that? 132 00:06:57.560 --> 00:07:01.079 Yeah, you know, it's on one of those things, you 133 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:04.680 know sometimes you you're like, now, this can't really be happening, 134 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:08.040 and we just thought it was some kind of weird, 135 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:11.360 you know, false motivational thing that. 136 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:13.519 Our eyes were doing. We weren't you know, nobody was 137 00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:18.240 really sure if it was something that everybody was you know, 138 00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:20.560 accustomed to in every class that you know, oh, you 139 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:23.199 got to hurry up because you know, the army, the 140 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:25.399 country's throwing the war and all this stuff. But what 141 00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:27.120 kind of struck at home was you know, when they 142 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:29.279 came out and they asked people if they had family 143 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:32.600 that worked as world trade centers, and you know, you 144 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:34.639 kind of get the weird look like why are you 145 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:36.959 asking that? And then you know, forty five minutes or 146 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:39.439 so later, you know, a does anybody have parents that 147 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:42.560 work a Pentagon? And you know, everybody's like, why would 148 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:44.519 I raise my hand out? Want to get singled out 149 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:47.240 for something? And you know then they're kind of like, hey, no, 150 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:50.319 this is you know, serious, and they realized that we 151 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:53.199 weren't believing them, and so they kind of called a 152 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:55.240 couple of guys to go forward and just kind of 153 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:57.480 see the news feed on the on a TV and 154 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:00.199 for about five minutes and then kind of came back 155 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:02.319 and say, hey, they're not lying, it's this is real. 156 00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:04.040 And so we have one guy who raised his hand 157 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:06.800 and say, yeah, my dad works at the Pentagon, and 158 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:10.000 you know, they said, well you need to call him. 159 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:13.879 And so that really messed with him. It was a 160 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:17.120 kid out of three some five and luckily his dad 161 00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:18.560 was out of the office. I think he was at 162 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:23.000 Fort Lee, Virginia that day, Bud. He you know, when 163 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:25.279 he came back to work on the twelfth, he didn't 164 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:29.040 have an office. Holy shit. Yeah. 165 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:34.080 And then how much so how far into ranger school 166 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:35.759 were you and how much longer did you have to go? 167 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:37.600 And how did that affect Ranger School? 168 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:42.679 Well, you know, you we're basically day. 169 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:44.679 Two, okay, oh wow wow. 170 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:47.399 So you know, we've just done the pet test in 171 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:51.279 that morning, we just finished the five mile run and 172 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:57.320 so it it was it was interesting because you always 173 00:08:57.320 --> 00:08:59.279 hear the stories of guys, you know, you got to 174 00:08:59.320 --> 00:09:02.519 get you know, seventy percent of your patrols you gotta pass. Well, 175 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:05.080 I mean, at that point they were you know, the 176 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:07.080 ris knew the writing on the wall. And then so 177 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:09.759 the whole point was to get the guys back to 178 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.679 the units as fast as possible. So you pass one 179 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:14.679 patrol and you never got another one. 180 00:09:15.080 --> 00:09:20.919 Yeah, So you know, and then it it became guys 181 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:21.840 that failed patrols. 182 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:24.720 You know, it was putting the right guys in positions 183 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.720 to help them get the next patrol to pass so 184 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:30.440 that they could go on to the next phace, so 185 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:32.759 that guys aren't stuck, you know, playing the how many 186 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:36.840 months can I be in Ranger school games and graduate 187 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:39.840 and then get back to your units because we got 188 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:40.639 to go do. 189 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:43.519 Business, right. Yeah. 190 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:45.440 Did you have any of those guys in when you 191 00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:47.679 were when you were doing a jack where they just 192 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:51.840 assigned like for four bat guys to them and just say, 193 00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:54.840 he's going to pass this patrol, so you basically don't 194 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:55.960 let him make any decisions. 195 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:59.360 I probably was that guy going through his life as 196 00:09:59.399 --> 00:10:02.200 an E two had been in battalion for like two months. 197 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:03.360 I think I was that guy. 198 00:10:04.879 --> 00:10:09.240 Yeah, yeah, no, but where where they basically give you 199 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:11.840 the reins and say get this guy through this patrol? 200 00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:15.559 Right? You know it's not the pick on people, but 201 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:18.639 it's usually the young lieutenants that they're just still trying 202 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:21.120 to get their feet underneath them as you know what 203 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:23.159 it's like to be a leader, and and you know 204 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:25.559 we've got you know, guys from the Ranger regimen been 205 00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:28.399 there twelve eighteen months. You know some guys that got hurt, 206 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:30.360 you know, maybe twenty four months of experience, and they 207 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:32.960 kind of understand the game, so you know, let's just 208 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:33.679 turn them loose. 209 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:38.559 And yeah, so you were you were in ranger school 210 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:44.200 when the first actions, when when Afghanstian kicked off, right 211 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:45.320 like they Yeah, we. 212 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:49.720 Were, Yeah, we were just finishing up mountains when when 213 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:53.159 everything kicked off and we were getting graded patrols and 214 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:55.240 who was going to go to Florida And it just 215 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:57.440 happened to be the night that three seventy five jumped 216 00:10:57.480 --> 00:11:00.200 on Rhino and the Riyes wheeled the TV cart out 217 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:02.879 and say, hey, check this out, and all the guys 218 00:11:02.919 --> 00:11:05.200 from three seventy five are crying, and then guys from 219 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:08.159 first and second are laughing, and the guys from third 220 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:10.399 are like why you you know why you laugh and 221 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:12.000 it's not funny. We're not a part of this. And 222 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:15.879 it's like, well, guess what, Ourpatalians haven't gone yet. Yeah. Yeah. 223 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:20.120 Were you worried that that it was going to be 224 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:23.080 like another war, Yeah, it was going to be like 225 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:23.919 Desert Storm. 226 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:25.200 It was going to be over before you are out 227 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:25.879 of ranger School. 228 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:29.159 Yeah, there was a lot of us that were, you know, 229 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:31.799 it's going to be the traditional like Grenade of Panama 230 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:34.080 Desert Storm, where it's going to be over as fast 231 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:36.799 as it started, and uh, you know you're going to 232 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:41.879 miss it all. And but you know, when you when 233 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:44.720 you start thinking about the amount of time that it 234 00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:47.320 was going to take to put everything over there, you know, 235 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:49.200 and get it in place, it was just a matter 236 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:51.639 of you know, when when's it going to be our 237 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:53.960 turn and is there going to be anything left because 238 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:57.360 the regiment's going to rotate everybody through at least once. 239 00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:02.440 And right, right, So you graduate ranger school and how 240 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:05.679 how was your reception when you got back to second 241 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:07.600 bat What was going on at the time. 242 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:11.440 Oh, everybody to have just gotten back from the Yakama, 243 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:13.360 So it's kind of the I got back like twenty 244 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:15.879 four hours before the battalion rolled back in from doing 245 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:18.399 you know, all the big fun stuff over in Yakama, 246 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:22.600 and you know, it was just kind of figuring out, 247 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:24.559 you know, how the rotation was going to work, because 248 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:26.600 you know, one seven five was just gearing up to go, 249 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:29.159 and so we were trying to figure out what our 250 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:30.759 training schedule was going to be and what was going 251 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:32.879 to look like and then when was our window going 252 00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:35.240 to come to to go and was there still going 253 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:39.240 to be anything to do? When we got there. Yeah, 254 00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:42.320 you know, and then twenty years later it's still going on. 255 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:46.159 Yeah, yeah, So what when did you get the word 256 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:48.720 that you guys were heading over and like what what 257 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:51.000 was it like jocking up for that deployment, getting ready 258 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:51.639 to go out the door? 259 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:55.120 We got kind of got the word that we were 260 00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:58.679 still going to get to go as probably uh in 261 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:02.240 late November December. You know, one seven five is going 262 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:04.159 to go, and then it's gonna be our turn to go, 263 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:06.279 and you know it might be the only deployment that 264 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:08.480 we get in Afghanistan, but you know, it's as it 265 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:11.919 stands right now. You know, we saw to go do 266 00:13:12.519 --> 00:13:17.240 rudder wing Bilats and and all the training that you 267 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:20.639 know was normally you know, gearing up for for all 268 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:25.720 that stuff, and so you know we did and then 269 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:30.000 uh Vico Bco led the push for Second Italian because 270 00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:34.320 at that time it was uh, basically you know, there 271 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:37.600 was only the need for like basically one company. We 272 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:40.320 were still sitting you know, split between Canaharn Vogram and 273 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:44.399 that was about it. And then you know, everybody realized 274 00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:47.759 that this was gonna be the long fight, and so 275 00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:51.519 then we started uh kind of pushing out and doing 276 00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:54.720 the expansion for the American footprint and setting up bases 277 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:56.320 and and all that stuff, and that's kind of what 278 00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:58.759 we ended up doing our first deployment. And then after 279 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.840 we'd been there for oh, I don't know, maybe a 280 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:03.519 month or so, they rolled in with the rest of 281 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:06.039 the battalions. So AKO and SICCO came in and kind 282 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:11.960 of helped expand the footprint and all the fun What 283 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:15.440 was you know, like post taku Gar, post taku Gar 284 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:20.039 and you know, Operations Anaconda. There really was nothing going 285 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:22.360 on in Afghanistan. You know, it was basically you know, 286 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:24.039 when you look at what was going on, you know, 287 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:26.759 you hear about one seventy five and Roberts Ridge and 288 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:29.000 then three seven fives jumping on Rhino and doing all 289 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:31.039 that stuff. You know, we're going over there thinking, you know, 290 00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:34.960 it's gonna be game on. It's spring summer, and everybody's 291 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:40.159 gonna be fighting. And that was, you know, complete opposite. 292 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:40.440 You know. 293 00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:42.720 Let's they were just as much as we were trying 294 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:44.720 to feel out, you know, what was going on with 295 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:46.720 the Talban. You know, they're kind of sitting back on 296 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:50.720 the border and just watching, you know, how we're doing business. 297 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:55.039 Yeah, so that first deployment was like pretty relatively quiet 298 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:55.679 at the time. 299 00:14:56.559 --> 00:14:59.879 Yeah, I mean we did one There was one operation 300 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:03.000 and where you know, they got it. The platoon got 301 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:04.559 in a gunfight. I was on a fifth kel, so 302 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:08.080 I didn't get to be you know, on the ground 303 00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:10.080 for that one. But it was one engagement, last five 304 00:15:10.120 --> 00:15:16.799 seconds and that was it. Yeah, that's the deployment was 305 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:20.279 just setting up bases and driving around Afghanistan and homebies. 306 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:23.480 Oh yeah, you mentioned I forgot you mentioned in your 307 00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:28.000 book that you actually had a guide, a tourist guide, 308 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:33.480 and a ranger who had been a Russian in Afghanistan. 309 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:37.039 Yeah, there was a kid in the well, not a kid, 310 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:38.600 but you know, there was a guy in theirpleteen and 311 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:42.039 that it was I believe he was Ukrainian, but you know, 312 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:43.919 it was part of the Soviet block at the time. 313 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:47.799 And he was like eighteen nineteen and got conscripted into 314 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:50.120 the Red Army, and you know, he spent a year 315 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:52.799 in Afghanistan in like eighty eight, eighty nine when they 316 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:54.759 were shutting it down. But it was really cool because 317 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:56.679 you know, at the time, you know, he could tell 318 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.200 you what everything was on Bogger and you know, all 319 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:02.399 the remnants of what was left. So that was I 320 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:04.960 mean for a history lesson, that was kind of cool. 321 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:07.639 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's pretty surreal. 322 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:11.120 So so that was sort of your your first trip. 323 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:14.559 It was just you know, setting the footprint. There wasn't 324 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:19.320 a lot of activity. What happened then after that you 325 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:21.320 went back and reset and what was your kind of 326 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:24.000 time between the deployments looking like at this point? 327 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.200 Uh, you know, so we we went back to reset 328 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:29.600 and that was kind of when everybody was thinking that, 329 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:31.960 you know, this is basically a wrap up and you know, 330 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:34.240 we're we're not going to be involved in this anymore. 331 00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:36.240 But you know, all the Italian's got at least one 332 00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:42.200 deployment and you know three seven five came back over 333 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:45.679 and ripped us. And you know, so when it came time, 334 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:47.840 you know, throughout the year that it was we were 335 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:49.759 going to at least go one more time, it was 336 00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:54.399 you know, Iraq was ramping up, and so it was like, okay, 337 00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:56.919 well who's going to go to Afghanistan? And so Charlie 338 00:16:56.919 --> 00:16:58.919 Cookmanty got picked to go to Afghanistan. And the whole 339 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:01.200 preface was for them to go was to shut down 340 00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:05.039 the special ops. You know, flipprint over there, and then 341 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:07.599 kind of if things did crank off in Iraq, then 342 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:10.759 they were going to join us over in Iraq. And 343 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:14.079 you know, they ended up staying for six months. You know, 344 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:17.440 they did their three month deployment plus the Iraq and 345 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:20.160 you know and stuff, so they got stuck in Afghanistan 346 00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.519 for six months. So let's just say Manning retention to 347 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:25.359 Charlie Company was terrible after everybody got home. 348 00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:29.720 Yeah, yeah, So then you guys were working up toward 349 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:33.839 towards the invasion of Iraq, right, which was that that 350 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:37.480 was in March of two thousand and three. So were 351 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:40.359 you guys part of that initial invasion or did you 352 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:41.519 get through shortly after it? 353 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:47.279 We? Uh, the battalion was infilling, you know, shortly before 354 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:50.160 everything cranked off. But we didn't actually put wheels down, 355 00:17:50.599 --> 00:17:54.000 you know, over there until the night that it officially 356 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:56.680 cranked off, because we got I had a bird we 357 00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:58.039 are bird broke in Germany? 358 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:01.119 What what? 359 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:02.799 What? You know? It's always kind of one of those 360 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:07.519 those fun things, are you know, uh, riding in on 361 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.079 the C seventeen, you got your gas masks strapped to 362 00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:11.960 your hip and you're wearing your mop suit. 363 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.759 Right, right, So can you tell us a little bit 364 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.279 about what a mop suit is for the people who 365 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:20.440 might not be familiar with it. 366 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:24.599 It's a chemical suit that you have to wear and 367 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:27.519 you know, it's a charcoal line suit and it's for 368 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:31.359 gas and biological weapons and stuff. It's gonna help keep 369 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:33.960 it off your skin. And they're terrible to wear. 370 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:35.160 Yeah. 371 00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:37.160 They they're like hot in the They're hot in the 372 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:38.799 daylight and cold at night. 373 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:40.759 Yeah. Yeah, they trap. 374 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.279 They're basically like sweats, like the plastic suits that you 375 00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:45.799 used to wear for wrestling or whatever. 376 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:47.880 Like they're not comfortable at all. 377 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:49.319 Uh no. 378 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:54.519 Yeah, So when you guys, because your bird got hung 379 00:18:54.599 --> 00:19:00.200 up in Germany when you landed for the invasion, did 380 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:02.160 you guys go to Saudi or did you go did 381 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:04.480 you go someplace elf Sport? 382 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:06.200 Since you was we landed in Saudi? 383 00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:11.720 Okay, Yeah, so you know, every everywhere where the special 384 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:14.279 office footprint was during desert storm was the same place 385 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:18.720 that we went to, and you know, basically basically unloaded 386 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:21.279 and then just got everything set and I think within 387 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:23.880 a couple of days we were running cross border offs 388 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:24.519 out in the West. 389 00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:25.920 Yeah. 390 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:28.119 And so then what was that like for you, Like 391 00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:31.759 moving into you know, from Saudi into Iraq and what 392 00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:34.799 kind of vehicles were you guys in and what were they? 393 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:38.440 Just you know, we're running the light the soft skinned 394 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:41.359 you know, humby gun trucks. We'd skin the roofs off 395 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:44.759 and taken the windows out, which was stupid because we 396 00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:47.039 caught one of the sandstorms right after it happened, and 397 00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:49.960 I know Therple team got caught out in it in 398 00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:52.279 the trucks and the windshields and they're trying to hold 399 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:55.319 m R boxes up over their face to keep rocks 400 00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:58.279 from blowing in, and you know, nobody could see anything. 401 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:00.319 So they're stuck sitting out there in it anduntil the 402 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:02.039 sun comes up and then they can at least try 403 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:06.160 and attempt to get back. And so it was interesting. 404 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:08.319 You know, we had five fifty cord from all the 405 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.559 tents to the latrines and to the chow hall, so 406 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:14.680 the guys could follow the string and and you know 407 00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:16.039 walk around in the brown out. 408 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:20.559 Yeah. Yeah, those sandstorms were something else out there. 409 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:26.319 And then, uh so how long was your trip to 410 00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:29.880 Iraq and like where was did anything particularly notable happen 411 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:31.359 during during your tour there? 412 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:33.039 Not? 413 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:35.440 Not at the first part of it, you know, until 414 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:39.480 everything came down for for us to do the Jessica 415 00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:42.599 Lynch rescue. And we've just rolled in off like a 416 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:46.039 twenty four hour off to go tie in with three 417 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:48.400 seven five and help them come back from H one 418 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:51.640 when they where they jumped in and then bring their 419 00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:55.519 vehicle convoys back. So we drove out tying with them 420 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:58.559 and then brought this like five mile long convoy back 421 00:20:58.599 --> 00:21:01.200 across the border. And then you rolling in dog tired, 422 00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:03.279 and the commander comes out of his tent and he's like, hey, 423 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:05.839 pack your stuff. We're leaving in three hours and we're 424 00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:07.880 gonna go do this. And I was like, oh, that's funny. 425 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:14.119 And seriously, folks, yeah, I was stupid eat for what 426 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:17.359 do I know that the commander is not just you know, 427 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:21.200 not being a jerk and trying to get guys to 428 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:24.319 have some kind of false motivation because you know, you know, 429 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:28.480 get in dog tired and throw down on the cot 430 00:21:28.519 --> 00:21:31.039 and start cleaning your rifle and Squeadlier comes back in 431 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:32.519 he's like, no, pack your stuff because we're. 432 00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:32.839 Out of here. 433 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:36.599 Yeah, And were you guys aware of Jessica Lynch, of 434 00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:39.279 that whole situation at the time or was the mission. 435 00:21:39.319 --> 00:21:42.079 No, I mean no, we hadn't really gotten any I 436 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:44.440 mean we kind of got like a little brief of it. 437 00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:49.440 But the kind of the the shit, you know, kind 438 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:52.240 of the the awe of the whole thing was like, 439 00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:55.839 how in the heck does a maintenance company get ahead 440 00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:56.599 of the front line? 441 00:21:56.839 --> 00:21:58.839 Yeah, you know, it's like the. 442 00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:04.119 Unfathomable, you know, how does this happen? It's you know, 443 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:07.480 we start kind of spitballing this whole thing, and you start, 444 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:09.920 you know, talking to some of the maintenance units that 445 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:11.960 are out there, and they just you know, at the time, 446 00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:14.759 they weren't equipped with night vision at the time. They're 447 00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:17.440 still driving you know, blackout lights and the way that 448 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:19.839 you know that everybody has since World War Two. It's 449 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:23.000 just slow moving and trying to navigate. And you know, 450 00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:26.119 only the combat arms units have night vision because that's 451 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:30.119 the priority, right, So you know, it was just kind 452 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:31.440 of like how does this even happen? 453 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:37.240 Yeah? And so what was what was the mission? 454 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:39.559 As it was brief to you guys, what was your 455 00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:41.279 role and what was your overall effort? 456 00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:46.119 We were gonna set in as far as Bravo Companies 457 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:48.759 part of it, we were gonna infill on Marine Corps 458 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.359 forty six is on the west side of nazarea kind 459 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:54.720 of in this flat looked like a kind of a 460 00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:57.240 trash pit area on the west side of town. And 461 00:22:57.240 --> 00:22:58.880 then we were just gonna run in a few blocks 462 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:03.160 off the desert and established blocking positions around the hospital 463 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:06.640 while one five a company from one seven to five 464 00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:10.079 was gonna skirt all the way around on the east 465 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:13.200 and then come in from the north and then bringing 466 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:15.200 the you know, the big guns on the trucks and 467 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:19.680 just basically you know, lock it all down until we 468 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:24.839 had gotten her out and gotten confirmation and recovery of 469 00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:30.319 everybody else that was off those trucks. And uh, I 470 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:32.359 was we were only on the ground for like three 471 00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:35.160 and a half hours and it was all done. Yeah, 472 00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:37.240 I mean by the time the seals came in on 473 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:40.680 the hospital and did the whole uh you know, recovery 474 00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:43.960 of her, we had just basically put the blocking positions 475 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:46.119 on the ground. We hadn't even gotten the established yet. 476 00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:48.559 As far as how fast that that whole thing happened, 477 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:53.759 it was a matter of just moments. Yeah, And because no, 478 00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:56.799 but it was fun, you know, it was fun to 479 00:23:56.839 --> 00:23:58.400 be a part of it. And you know, I guess 480 00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:00.680 we were saying earlier this is you know, there's all 481 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.039 these things. It's just another day at the office until 482 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:05.839 you get later in life and then you start talking 483 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:08.519 to people about it and then it's like wow, uh, 484 00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:12.440 you know, it's kind of a historic, you know, event 485 00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:14.839 that we've got to be a part of, you know, 486 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:20.559 the first successful pow rescue and over forty years. Yeah. Yeah. 487 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:24.240 And then what happened in terms of recovering the bodies 488 00:24:24.279 --> 00:24:26.000 were you were you guys part of that? 489 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:29.920 Uh No? That was Once in five? Would you know 490 00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:32.119 they're guys on the trucks that they recovered them and 491 00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:36.200 then they ground X filled them out on their on 492 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:39.880 the humbies and so we just stab, you know, maintained 493 00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:42.720 blocking positions and stuff until you know that they were 494 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:44.960 done and they had X filled the trucks and then 495 00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:48.160 we pushed out for uh xfil on the forty six's 496 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:51.200 and you know, got back on the on the air 497 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:53.640 base there in nazarea, and you know, high fives and 498 00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:57.160 handshakes and it was all good and you know, go 499 00:24:57.240 --> 00:24:59.440 find your friends and Once in five and see how 500 00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:01.920 the everything went on their aspect of it when they 501 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:02.519 rolled back in. 502 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.319 Yeah, and how I mean, I can't imagine. 503 00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:11.400 That that that that was well, of course it wasn't pleasant, 504 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:13.880 but it was it was pretty harrowing for them because 505 00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:18.519 those those bodies were in show shallow graves, right, yeah. 506 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:22.640 Yeah, and it was you know, they they said it 507 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:23.839 wasn't it It wasn't pretty. 508 00:25:24.200 --> 00:25:27.119 Yeah, yeah, And I could only imagine you know, yeah, 509 00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:30.599 you know, later seeing some of the things that I've seen, 510 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:34.279 you know, later on it's just, you know, it's not fun. 511 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:36.599 Yeah. 512 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:41.400 So was there anything else that happened, Uh during that 513 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:42.599 trip to Iraq? 514 00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:48.319 That was we did you know, Operation Reindeer, which was 515 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:52.880 then you know, the true you know, the true rangeer mission, 516 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:56.519 smash everything, kill everyone, you know, destroy it all and 517 00:25:56.599 --> 00:25:59.279 then you know, come out high five and in handshaken. 518 00:25:59.319 --> 00:26:04.279 At the end. We had our first wounded an action 519 00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:08.119 on that on that deployment team leader from second second 520 00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:12.640 Squad Uh got hit with an RPG and and lost 521 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:22.799 his lower left leg. So, you know, other than that, 522 00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:24.960 it was it was a you know, it was a 523 00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:29.839 it was a great traditional you know, typical ranger training op. 524 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:32.079 You know, do you remember everything? 525 00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:34.319 I'm sorry, but do you remember any many of the 526 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:37.799 details of Operation Reindeer in terms of like who you 527 00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:40.599 were after and sort of what how it was going 528 00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:41.119 to go down. 529 00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:46.279 Yeah, So what what it came came down to was 530 00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:50.400 that there was a second collection that had you know, 531 00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:54.440 large sized force was kind of out training in the 532 00:26:55.680 --> 00:27:01.319 in the desert kind of northwest Afghani or Iraq, and 533 00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:05.880 it was just basically, you know, it was like eighty 534 00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:08.960 to one hundred and twenty is what Intel was was 535 00:27:09.079 --> 00:27:11.799 putting on that it was. And you know, you could 536 00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:14.240 tell they were holding formations and they were doing training 537 00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:17.279 and things like that, and so it was you know, 538 00:27:17.319 --> 00:27:20.640 who could hit this first? And you know at this 539 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:22.799 is at the big command level and this is you know, 540 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:26.240 what's been filtered down through the company commander at the 541 00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.240 time was that it was in the hundred first sale 542 00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:34.000 or area of operation and they were going to take 543 00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:36.680 like a week to plant it out. And that what 544 00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:39.119 didn't make you know, the powers that be happy, and 545 00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:41.480 so it kind of came to the special opsite and 546 00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:43.279 you know, we just said, well we can hit it 547 00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:47.640 tomorrow and so we you know, just work through our 548 00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:53.440 normal off cycle and planned it out, rehearsed it, and 549 00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:58.440 you know it basically other than Matt getting hurt. You know, 550 00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:01.759 it worked, you know, the same way it doesn't training, 551 00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:05.880 but even to that part, you know, we trained, you 552 00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:09.359 know casually play and all that stuff. So it just 553 00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:11.279 sucked that, you know, it actually happened. 554 00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:15.720 So I mean, that was a pretty sizable force on 555 00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:16.319 that target. 556 00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:23.319 Yeah, yeah, it was the I don't the exact count. 557 00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:25.559 I don't remember exactly the number, but you know it 558 00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:30.720 was over eighty. So first and second came in on helos, 559 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:37.680 and third had launched basically about ten hours before the half. 560 00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:41.200 The helo package launched, and they drove up on trucks. 561 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:43.720 They were going to do the backside blocking and set 562 00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:46.400 up the fark for the little birds and all the stuff, 563 00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:49.279 and so then they you know, after we x filled 564 00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:52.759 the half, then they stayed and kind of did the BDA, 565 00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:56.079 the battle damage assessment afterwards. It gave a rough count 566 00:28:56.119 --> 00:28:58.720 and you know, handed the objective over to the hundred 567 00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:00.920 first when they came into take control of it, and 568 00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:06.799 so it was kind of interesting when they came back, 569 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:09.599 you know, kind of get the picture of, you know, 570 00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:11.240 what it looked like in the daylight. 571 00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:17.559 Yeah. 572 00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:22.440 So, uh so after that then it was back home. 573 00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:26.720 You become a team leader or. 574 00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:29.720 Were you move over to Charlie Company and took took 575 00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:33.160 a fire team over to Charlie Company. And then we 576 00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:37.319 did the Winter Surgeon three to Afghanistan. Were walking around 577 00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:39.920 in the mountains for six weeks. We always call it 578 00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:41.279 Mount Fay's Research for. 579 00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:45.839 Those of us that are there, And can you tell 580 00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:46.400 us about that? 581 00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:52.119 What was uh? Was it similar to your first apployment 582 00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:54.359 to Afghanistan or was it completely different? 583 00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:57.440 It was different because we were up in the Conar 584 00:29:57.519 --> 00:29:58.759 and in the Petch River valley. 585 00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:03.279 This is the big surge, Wesley Morgan writes about, isn't that? 586 00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:08.960 Yeah? I believe so, yeah, yeah, So we were, you know, 587 00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:11.599 kind of expanding the footprint and just kind of getting 588 00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:14.160 into the mountains to kind of chase down some of 589 00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:18.799 the rat lines that people were, you know, Taliban fighters 590 00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:21.119 were using to come in and just kind of deny 591 00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:24.440 the access through the mountains in the winter and show 592 00:30:24.519 --> 00:30:26.279 that everybody that hey, we're not afraid to come up 593 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:29.200 here and we're not afraid to hang out for weeks 594 00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:32.480 on end and and and do our thing, which was 595 00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:35.240 it was fun. I mean, you know, like I wrote 596 00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:36.880 in my books, you know, so a lot of the people, 597 00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:39.839 you know, in villages at like ten thousand feet, you know, 598 00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:44.599 they're still thinking that the Russians are in there. Yeah, 599 00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:47.000 and so you know, just to see the disconnect in 600 00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:51.559 that country at you know, at that you know, at 601 00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:54.720 that primitive point, was like, uh no, they haven't been 602 00:30:54.759 --> 00:30:59.920 here for like ten winters. Now at least. 603 00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:03.720 What was it like operating at that altitude and such like, 604 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:05.400 I mean, that's some of the most difficult terrain in 605 00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:05.839 the world. 606 00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:12.279 It was definitely taxing, if you will. Some of the guys, 607 00:31:12.319 --> 00:31:14.839 you know, they've never been at altitude like that. Some 608 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:16.799 of the guys you know out of Florida and Geordia 609 00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:20.160 and you know, never you know, being on the Mount 610 00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:23.480 Yona and Ranger Schools probably some of the highest elevation 611 00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:25.440 that they've ever been on. And so you get guys 612 00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:28.160 up there, you know, ten thousand feet or above, and 613 00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:30.640 guys are coming with altitude sickness and they're just not 614 00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:36.480 being able to adjust as easily as some And you know, 615 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:39.160 Manning is still low and Charlie Company at the time 616 00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:42.240 because it's just coming off the Iraq thing. Guys are like, 617 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:44.119 now I'm out of here. We got hosed over and 618 00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:47.640 so we're we're in there with five man squads, so 619 00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:51.920 we're still carrying all the gear for nine and so, 620 00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:55.519 you know, the only nice thing is we went in 621 00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:57.839 with no body armor. We were just carrying chess racks 622 00:31:57.839 --> 00:31:59.880 and rocks sacks. But the rock secks were still weighing 623 00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:03.079 in about eighty eighty to ninety pounds, depending on you 624 00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:04.839 know what is in there. 625 00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:09.160 Yeah. Yeah, that land will break you too. That's not 626 00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:11.079 easy terrain to move over. 627 00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:17.960 No, you know, there we did. We did hire on 628 00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:22.680 some pack mules, which is kind of interesting for a while, 629 00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:24.160 and that was a lot of it was just to 630 00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:26.920 go to the resupply points to be able to bring 631 00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:30.680 bring back the supplies that we needed instead of doing 632 00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:33.240 the Ranger School ruck dump and then walking down and 633 00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:35.759 loading up and then carrying it all back up. It's like, well, 634 00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:38.640 let's just hire some people with mules and we'll pack 635 00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:40.839 mule this stuff up there and all we have to 636 00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:41.640 do is just walk. 637 00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:45.000 So did you guys just hire like the mules or 638 00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:48.640 did you actually have people because you have to know 639 00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:50.759 what you're doing with the mule, right, Yeah. 640 00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:53.720 No, we we hired the locals at the time, and 641 00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:56.920 it's like, hey, you know, here's however much in you 642 00:32:56.920 --> 00:33:01.279 know Pakistani ruppes that makes them happy, Like they're justified 643 00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:04.319 to waste a day, you know, renting their mules to 644 00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:06.759 us and walking them up the mountain. Yeah, and then 645 00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:10.720 bringing the cases of m R E s and whatnot. 646 00:33:10.839 --> 00:33:15.279 And uh, one of the stories, Oh, I was just 647 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:17.319 gonna say one of the stories you told during that time, 648 00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:19.599 because you you guys were on the h VT, the 649 00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:23.240 High Value Target, the Time Sunset Target, and uh, can 650 00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:24.480 you tell us about when you went out with the 651 00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:25.000 Seal team. 652 00:33:26.119 --> 00:33:29.240 Oh, so we had just coming out of the out 653 00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:31.079 of the pest. We've been in there for three weeks 654 00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:32.839 and it was like supposed to have like a seventy 655 00:33:32.839 --> 00:33:34.799 two hour rest and refit back of the block room. 656 00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:37.599 So we all get back, you know, off the off 657 00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:39.599 the birds, and you know it's kind of standing around 658 00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:41.880 in line for showers, and this HBT comes down and 659 00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:43.599 they said, hey, the team's gonna Seal Team is going 660 00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:45.240 to go out and hit this and we've got to 661 00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:47.160 go out and do blocking positions, So get it all 662 00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:50.480 back on and and load up. And so you know, 663 00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:54.079 I didn't get a shower and uh so we roll 664 00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:57.799 in there and we hit this this draw off the 665 00:33:57.960 --> 00:34:02.519 uh off the conar and uh, you know, seals are 666 00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:05.400 hit the wrong side of the valley because intel's just 667 00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:07.799 not very good in Afghanistan at this point. It's just 668 00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:10.320 you know, it's human so it's there's a huge margin 669 00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:13.320 of error in it. And they didn't want to walk 670 00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:15.519 across the valley and go up, so they just called 671 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:18.360 a helo to come pick them up from one side 672 00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:20.039 and carry him to the other because they didn't want 673 00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:28.039 to walk it. Yea in a nutshell, I guess that's 674 00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:30.840 the nice way to put it short. 675 00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:39.400 Yeah, yeah, So was there anything else on that? And 676 00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:42.280 for those of you who don't know, I'm not really 677 00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:45.159 drinking them on, Madge, I had surgery, so if I'm 678 00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:51.239 a little like faded, but uh it was Was there 679 00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:55.679 anything else on that on that particular trip that because 680 00:34:55.719 --> 00:34:58.440 you mentioned that that was up to that point like 681 00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:00.400 sort one of the best sort of all around sort 682 00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:03.079 of I guess military experiences you had, just in terms 683 00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:06.199 of the type of job you guys were doing. 684 00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:10.440 Yeah, you know, it was kind of the for those 685 00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:12.559 of us later on that you know that were that 686 00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:16.320 were still in uh, in the regiment or the battalion. 687 00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:18.719 You know that that kind of became the baseline for 688 00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:23.039 the word suck. It was like everything else if it did, 689 00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:26.880 you'll meet that threshold of just pain and misery. It 690 00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:30.519 it wasn't that bad, right, because that was that was 691 00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:35.840 just brutal. I mean, you know, got knees and ankles, 692 00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:39.440 and you know, guys are quitting and it's like, oh, well, awesome, 693 00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:41.159 you can quit all you want. You ain't coming off 694 00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:43.800 the mountain. They're not sending a helicopter for you. 695 00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:45.280 Right, Yeah, where are you gonna go? 696 00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:49.000 Yeah, yeah, you're a private They're not gonna send a 697 00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:52.119 helicopter come get you. Great, awesome, we'll deal with you know, 698 00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:53.159 you quitting later. 699 00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:56.159 And those are also the type of operations that you 700 00:35:56.199 --> 00:35:58.480 hold over the new guys had when they weren't on it. 701 00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:00.719 You like, you know, they start play, You're like, ah, 702 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:01.639 you weren't there. 703 00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:05.960 Yeah, but then you made yourself feel like a dinosaur later. 704 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:11.800 On, right, Right, So then so you guys are on 705 00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:15.320 this hop in schedule because that was in two thousand, 706 00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:17.480 like late two thousand and three, and then the spring 707 00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:19.000 you're right back in Iraq again. 708 00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:23.360 Yeah, we did the winters. The end of three, we 709 00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:25.719 were back in Afghanistan and then we were kind of 710 00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:28.639 doing the Spring Surge as we refer to it, in 711 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:31.559 four and it was just a short, little forty five 712 00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:35.440 day to kind of reinforce the Special Ops footprint so 713 00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:40.239 we could move some units around, you know, shift guys 714 00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:46.119 and not have a loss in combat abilities. Yeah. So 715 00:36:46.119 --> 00:36:48.360 so that was that was definitely interesting because that was 716 00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:54.159 like the the introduction, if you will, to IEDs. You know, 717 00:36:54.199 --> 00:36:55.719 at that point, you know, it was starting to get 718 00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:57.920 armored vehicles and it's like, why are we driving around 719 00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:00.800 with this? You know, what's the what's the big deal? 720 00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:04.599 You know, they're like popcan size explosives and you know, 721 00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:07.559 like within a year, you know, we're they're planting you know, 722 00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:12.079 two thousand pounds of hme E under the roadbeds and 723 00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:13.119 blowing tanks apart. 724 00:37:13.719 --> 00:37:18.159 Yeah yeah, well and not just that, but you talk 725 00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:24.000 about your story with the tanks, the Abrams tanks, right, Yeah. 726 00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:27.079 Yeah, we had that trip. We were going from by 727 00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:30.440 app from the airport into town into the green zone 728 00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:34.639 to link up to do an op and you know 729 00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:37.280 we're running blacked out and you know, we got the 730 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:39.400 city lights shining in our face, so you can't really 731 00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:43.119 see anything other than about twenty yards in front of you, 732 00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.199 but you know, the highways along straight run and so 733 00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:50.280 you know, put it down and just go. And there 734 00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:52.039 was a tank that had been sitting in the median 735 00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:54.159 and they traversed the cannon to look at something with 736 00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:56.880 thermal off the cannon and they brought the barrel across 737 00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:58.400 that a zero plane and it was right at the 738 00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:00.960 same time. But we came in with the truck and 739 00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:05.400 almost killed the gunner out of my truck. You know, 740 00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:09.280 he was in a medically induced coma for about forty 741 00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:12.159 five days and his face was broken in about thirteen places, 742 00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:17.760 turning mark nineteen on the front on the lead truck 743 00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:20.760 into Basically the receiver was a banana and the barrel 744 00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:23.639 broke in three places. The strike plate we never found, 745 00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:28.159 and you know, it basically almost totaled the truck. It 746 00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:30.679 took us two days to get the turp, you know, 747 00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:34.840 reconfigured with stripped parts off other vehicles and put it 748 00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:35.400 back together. 749 00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:42.639 Yeah, it's it's, it's and it's weird sometimes too in combat. 750 00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:45.480 How it does you know in a war zone? How 751 00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:51.400 how it's some of the most random events that right, 752 00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:54.880 you know, you know, blue on blue isn't always just 753 00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:59.679 friendly fire. Sometimes it's just these incredibly random events like that. 754 00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:01.880 You know. 755 00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:04.480 And it was just one of those things. They didn't 756 00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:07.079 see us because they were busy looking at something and 757 00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:09.400 we couldn't see them with the lights and just the 758 00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:12.519 you know, the the we're all running, you know, the 759 00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:15.880 monocular PVS fourteen's, and you know, it's like, well, hey, 760 00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:18.119 we're good, we're on this. We own this section of 761 00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:21.159 highway between town and the airport and there's nothing going 762 00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:23.559 on out here ever, and so you know, we don't 763 00:39:23.559 --> 00:39:27.960 really need to, you know, watch out for for other forces. 764 00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:29.880 But you know, there's a tank sitting in the media 765 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.280 and right right it happened to be the you know, 766 00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:36.480 I've just had chosen to drive in the left lane 767 00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:40.400 as the lead truck, you know, and we hit it 768 00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:43.920 didn't damage the tank, I mean, we scratched the paint 769 00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:46.159 a little bit, but the damage to the barrel. 770 00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:54.320 Yeah, And so that was a fairly on eventful trip 771 00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:55.199 for you guys, right. 772 00:39:57.320 --> 00:40:01.960 Uh, Yeah, that one, that one was. Yeah, as as 773 00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:05.480 far as any any operations that saw you know, any 774 00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:07.719 contact in it. You know, there there wasn't really a 775 00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:08.920 lot going on at that point. 776 00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:13.400 Uh. And then your next trip was Mosul. 777 00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:20.159 Yes, well, no, Afghanistan. We went to Afghanistan. That's five. 778 00:40:20.239 --> 00:40:21.559 That was Marcus la Trail. 779 00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:27.320 Okay, okay, sorry about that, so can you yeah, so 780 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:28.400 can you tell us about that? 781 00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:28.599 Then? 782 00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:35.480 Uh, Marcus the Treill you know, it's Afghanistan. Targeting was 783 00:40:35.559 --> 00:40:37.920 you know, still in its infancy. Is still a lot 784 00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:40.880 of human based at that point in time in Afghanistan, 785 00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:46.760 so they're really wasn't a great targeting platform to go on. 786 00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:50.000 As you know, we looked for you know, legacy targets 787 00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:54.519 and plant out some of that stuff. And as far 788 00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:56.079 as what the rangers were doing a lot of it. 789 00:40:56.199 --> 00:41:00.840 We were just on ts TS time Sensitive Target for 790 00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:04.039 one platoon and then the other was on CSAR Combat 791 00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:08.679 Search and Rescue was a STEO basic standard Ranger tasking 792 00:41:09.079 --> 00:41:13.360 at that point in time, and we had just rotated 793 00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:17.000 off of the CSAR tasking onto the Time Sensitive Target tasking. 794 00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:19.440 So we had just finished all the stand ups for 795 00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:22.760 you know, running through timelines and checks on all that stuff, 796 00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:26.280 and got the word that you know, uh, Marcus Traill's 797 00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:28.280 team was was going to go out and do this 798 00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:33.880 Operation Red Wings. And you know, as rangers always do 799 00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:36.559 you know, we get enough information to have a conversation 800 00:41:36.639 --> 00:41:39.480 about it at chow hall table, and so we started 801 00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:42.519 talking with some of the Rekie guys and you know there, 802 00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:46.639 you know, they're briefing us because they've been following this 803 00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:48.960 a lot closer than like a rifle balteon has that 804 00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:52.440 wasn't kind of in our uh in our wheelhouse as 805 00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:54.400 far as targets we were looking at, but stuff that 806 00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:57.480 Reki had been looking at in areas to do to 807 00:41:57.559 --> 00:42:00.320 do some of their stuff, and they were like, wedn't 808 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:02.039 do it this way, not four guys, No, we'd take 809 00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:04.880 a whole recon section, you know, twelve guys and then 810 00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:08.239 but we wouldn't do it without a rifle teon and support, 811 00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:10.400 you know, even if it was a you know, five 812 00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:13.159 k standoff between the two, because they can fight to 813 00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:14.679 us and we can fight to them, and it's a 814 00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:17.480 bigger footprint on the ground. Yeah, do we run the 815 00:42:17.559 --> 00:42:21.119 risk of spoiling the target, yes, But you know, on 816 00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:24.239 the other side of it, you know, we as rangers, 817 00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:28.440 you know, we're always going to bring everything in the 818 00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:31.000 kitchen sink to bear on an objective to turn the 819 00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:36.840 you know, the odds in our favor. And you know, 820 00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:39.519 did they do anything wrong in the way they did it? No, 821 00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:43.840 they made judgment calls along the way. And you know 822 00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:49.119 we can armchair quarterback this right. You know, here's years 823 00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:50.679 later and say, well I wouldn't have done that, and 824 00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:52.920 I wouldn't have done this, but you know, they did 825 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:57.519 what they do and right, so you know that led 826 00:42:57.599 --> 00:43:00.920 us into you know, you know, then losing calms and 827 00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:03.199 them getting in the fight and you know, as the 828 00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:10.440 as the movie portrays it out, and you know, and 829 00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:14.960 then we got to go in and do the combat 830 00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:17.880 search and rescue on the Turbine three three crash site 831 00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:20.079 and then figure out what the question mark. 832 00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:24.320 Is what was going on on your base with your platoon? 833 00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:27.119 I mean, are you getting worried that this team is compromised? 834 00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:28.880 There are guys who are m I A, we might 835 00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:30.480 have to go look for them. Then you find out 836 00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:32.559 a bird went down? I mean, can you take us 837 00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:33.360 through a little bit of that. 838 00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:37.159 So so that morning, so June twenty eight, that morning, 839 00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:38.679 you know, we we got up and we just did 840 00:43:38.719 --> 00:43:40.360 what rangers do you know, We got up to pt 841 00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:43.400 went ate breakfast. Going on with our training cycle, we 842 00:43:43.400 --> 00:43:46.519 were going to go out to East River Range, which 843 00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:49.559 is just outside of Bograam, the little town of Bogram. 844 00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:52.119 So we left the base, got outside there. We're gonna 845 00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:56.559 go do some shooting drills and just you know, have 846 00:43:56.719 --> 00:43:59.920 a good session on the range and we get out 847 00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:03.639 and start throwing the target stands off the trucks and 848 00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:06.199 that's about the time that you know, we we find 849 00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:10.159 out that the bird's been shot down, and you know, 850 00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:13.559 it was hey, don't don't worry about what you've thrown 851 00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:16.000 off the trucks, get back on the trucks. You know, 852 00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:18.480 we got to get back and there was a lot 853 00:44:18.519 --> 00:44:20.760 of guys who are like, what are we doing? And 854 00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:23.679 you know, we didn't have any of the answers at 855 00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:25.960 the leadership level of what was going on. We just 856 00:44:26.039 --> 00:44:28.360 knew that, you know, we had to be back for 857 00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:33.320 something that was gonna gonna get breathed, you know, to us. 858 00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:36.679 And as the situation was developing, and and so then 859 00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:38.400 as we were rolling back in, you know, we find 860 00:44:38.440 --> 00:44:41.440 out that the aircraft has been shot down, that team's 861 00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:45.000 in the fight, and you know, we're just stand by 862 00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:48.639 at that point. So I wouldn't really kind of understand 863 00:44:48.679 --> 00:44:51.360 the whole situation for you know, probably another six years 864 00:44:51.440 --> 00:44:55.079 as I progressed through through leadership. But you know, as 865 00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:59.159 I tell people, it's, you know, it's as a young guy, 866 00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:01.719 you know, it's not that we're not going to get 867 00:45:01.719 --> 00:45:02.920 in there and we're not going to be a part 868 00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:04.239 of this and we're not gonna but we're going to 869 00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:07.920 turn the tables so that way when we do recommit 870 00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:10.920 forces into this area, we've got so many assets to 871 00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:14.280 bear on the objective that nobody would be in their 872 00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:19.679 right mind to want to play. So, you know, it 873 00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:24.400 was probably you know, about ten hours or so after 874 00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:27.039 the initial shootdown that you know, that night as we're 875 00:45:27.079 --> 00:45:30.679 getting ready to launch and you'll finally got the green 876 00:45:30.760 --> 00:45:33.320 light that we're going to go, and we load up 877 00:45:33.320 --> 00:45:36.360 everybody that's going to fit on the aircraft at altitude 878 00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:40.679 and launch and then we hit the mountain weather on 879 00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:44.119 that night and have to divert infill and go sit 880 00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:47.760 at jawl about for a day and then wait to 881 00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:49.159 get infilled the next night. 882 00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:54.079 What what was your understanding at that time of the 883 00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:55.280 situation on the ground. 884 00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:00.320 So the understanding was that the forty seven had been 885 00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:02.800 shot down. There was no movement on that, you know. 886 00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:07.159 Is SR feeds were terrible at the time. I you know, 887 00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:11.320 I don't even understand how people could understand, you know, 888 00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:14.199 what they're seeing on that screen. It was such a 889 00:46:14.239 --> 00:46:18.800 bad quality feed even then, you know. And so we 890 00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:20.639 knew that the aircraft has been shot down. We're going 891 00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:25.280 in to do combat search and rescue on the crash. 892 00:46:26.599 --> 00:46:30.639 You know, Murphy's team was still a question mark as 893 00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:33.159 to what's going on because there had been no radio 894 00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:37.519 comes with them since Murphy's SAP phone call. So the 895 00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:41.159 priority tasking was to recover the crash because we knew 896 00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:44.199 where it was, and then after that it would just 897 00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:47.320 be to figure it out, if you will. 898 00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.719 So we we we interviewed Tony Brooks on the show before. 899 00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:55.719 Was he in your platoon? 900 00:46:57.199 --> 00:46:59.320 Tony was in one, Charlie, so he was the other 901 00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:02.679 half of the element that went up. So it was, uh, 902 00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:07.639 theurplatoon led the way because we weren't on the CSAR, 903 00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:11.239 so we didn't have all the recovery and crash axes 904 00:47:11.239 --> 00:47:13.360 and all this stuff to do that. So we we 905 00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:16.519 kind of plowed the way, if you will, and we 906 00:47:16.519 --> 00:47:18.639 were there to kind of take the brunt of any 907 00:47:18.679 --> 00:47:20.599 contact that was going to be made, because we were 908 00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:24.280 just there to add security to to what they were 909 00:47:24.280 --> 00:47:26.679 going to come in and do. As far as recovery, 910 00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:29.719 that was you know, one Charlie's tasking at the time. 911 00:47:29.800 --> 00:47:32.519 So that was that was where Tony was and. 912 00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:35.599 Okay, cool, you. 913 00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:39.320 Yeah, no, it's cool to get like some different perspectives 914 00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:41.440 on it. So then what was your platoon you know, 915 00:47:41.480 --> 00:47:43.599 I mean you just explained what your platoon's role was, 916 00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:46.559 but then walk us through infil and getting on the ground. 917 00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:50.400 So infil we infilled somewhere about probably about eight thousand 918 00:47:50.480 --> 00:47:52.760 feet and you know, it was what we could get to 919 00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:56.880 with the package size that we had on the aircraft. 920 00:47:56.920 --> 00:47:59.079 And so there we knew there wasn't a way to 921 00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:01.280 land anywhere up there, so we knew it was going 922 00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:02.480 to be a rope and it was going to be 923 00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:07.960 at least and minimum of forty footer and it ended 924 00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:10.599 up forty and then as it broke drifts, you know, 925 00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:15.039 it kind of goes forty to sixty to you know, 926 00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:18.840 as it works out. And then when one Charlie came in, 927 00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:21.679 I know, their rope started at sixty and it ended 928 00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:23.679 somewhere around eighty. 929 00:48:23.440 --> 00:48:26.360 Tony said, they just roped down into fog with like 930 00:48:26.440 --> 00:48:27.840 no idea of where the bottom was. 931 00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:30.719 Yeah, yeah, it was. Well, I mean the fuck came 932 00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:32.599 in after we were already on the ground. I know 933 00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:38.599 what he's talking about, because you know, it is just 934 00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:43.599 the way the weather was working, and you know, it's 935 00:48:43.639 --> 00:48:46.159 just it was. It was, you know, one of those 936 00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:48.920 points where I never really you know, after a private 937 00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:52.440 I never roped with with leather gloves, you know, fast rope, 938 00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:54.400 you know, the working work gloves anymore. I always did 939 00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:57.760 it in no max shooting glo Hamburger helpers. 940 00:48:58.159 --> 00:48:58.360 Yeah. 941 00:48:58.360 --> 00:49:00.480 I never tried like trying to take those gloves off, 942 00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:02.360 and always felt like my hands got so much hotter. 943 00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:06.159 And you know, I had a teen starts said hey, 944 00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:08.679 just just rope in your shooting gloves because you don't 945 00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:10.960 have to grip. The rope is tight. He this paces 946 00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:12.519 the heat just as well, and he said, just try 947 00:49:12.519 --> 00:49:15.559 it on the fast repe tower. So I did, and 948 00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:17.559 that's that's a forty foot rope, and you know, it 949 00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:20.239 wasn't terrible. And then I was watching guys carrying two 950 00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:22.400 forties and stuff roping in and they've got the big 951 00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:24.840 thick gloves on and they're squeezing extra tight just to 952 00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:27.800 have a feeling on the rope, right, And so then 953 00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:29.920 they're burning in and you know, and their hands are 954 00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:32.079 getting so hot that you know, they're blistering at you know, 955 00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:34.800 still ten or fifteen feet above ground, and they're just 956 00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:37.679 letting go. They're like, I'll just deal with it when 957 00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:40.280 to hit the ground. And you know when once Charlie 958 00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:42.480 came in, you know, they had the same problem, and 959 00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:44.960 guys were falling off and then they were just ending 960 00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:46.599 up in the big pile. And I know their rto 961 00:49:47.239 --> 00:49:50.559 had had his arm broken because he got stepped on. 962 00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:55.679 Yeah that's and so you know he got guys that 963 00:49:55.719 --> 00:49:58.079 need to get meted back, but you ain't getting meta backed. 964 00:49:58.320 --> 00:49:58.599 Yeah. 965 00:49:59.400 --> 00:49:59.880 Yeah. 966 00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:02.079 So what was it like for your platoon roping in 967 00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:03.199 and getting on the ground. 968 00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:08.719 Uh, it wasn't. We didn't have any contact or anything. 969 00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:11.360 And it was it was quiet, you know. And then 970 00:50:11.400 --> 00:50:15.440 when you when the brown out cleared and all the 971 00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:17.679 you know, the wash of everything, and you know, you 972 00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:20.480 kind of look up the mountain, you know, you you 973 00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:23.239 could see the crash because it's still on fire, it's 974 00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:26.119 still burning and it's just kind of one of those 975 00:50:28.039 --> 00:50:30.280 ominous moments, if you will, just kind of you know, 976 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:32.840 the gravity of what you're doing has finally set in 977 00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:34.920 because you're seeing it with your own eyes and not 978 00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:40.880 on a TV screen. And then you know, it just 979 00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:45.239 becomes the all night walk up hill through the nettles 980 00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:48.679 and you know the Scotch Burn or not the Scotch Burn, 981 00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:51.400 but you know the pines and all the groundcover that's 982 00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:53.920 up there in the mountains, and it's just. 983 00:50:56.639 --> 00:50:57.320 Were you guys. 984 00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:01.280 Was there any intelligence that there were enemies on the 985 00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:02.880 objective or around the objective? 986 00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:08.800 We had, you know, any eyes around the area, but 987 00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:14.599 it wasn't anything like on on the objective. There wasn't 988 00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:18.119 any movement on there, you know, throughout the day or 989 00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:20.960 or anything. And there wasn't there wasn't any you know, 990 00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:26.320 people coming and going from it. I think, you know, 991 00:51:26.440 --> 00:51:28.960 looking back at it now, is they realized what they 992 00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:30.760 had done and what was about to happen, and so 993 00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:33.159 they were just kind of got a little bit of 994 00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:37.159 standoff and they really were it was to observe how 995 00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:41.199 we were going to take care of it. Yeah, and 996 00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:45.800 so you know, as the the that day turned into 997 00:51:46.119 --> 00:51:49.280 you know, a week to two weeks. You know, at night, 998 00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:51.400 you know, you see little fires on the mountain and 999 00:51:51.639 --> 00:51:54.039 you know, get eyes on it, especially can and then 1000 00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:57.480 ac one thirties dropping, you know, one O five's on it. 1001 00:51:59.079 --> 00:52:02.599 Yeah, So what was that first movement that first night? 1002 00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:04.440 What was the movement like for you guys? How long 1003 00:52:04.480 --> 00:52:04.960 did it take? 1004 00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:08.639 It took all night. We didn't get to the top 1005 00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:14.360 until about an hour before you know, sunrise, and then 1006 00:52:14.440 --> 00:52:17.119 were sitting there on it and the kind of listening 1007 00:52:17.159 --> 00:52:19.960 to one Charlie, you know, suck their way up the 1008 00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:23.840 mountain and then one Bravo was still about halfway up 1009 00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:27.440 the mountain because they had driven in from Jelalabad the 1010 00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:30.239 night or the morning that it happened. They drove up 1011 00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:33.639 the ninety k in their trucks and then they started 1012 00:52:33.639 --> 00:52:36.119 walking from the base of the mountain up and they 1013 00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:41.639 didn't make it until the next day. And you know, 1014 00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:45.360 only about half the guys that started to climb up 1015 00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:47.320 the mountain made it up and the rest of them 1016 00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:50.280 had to go back down and get picked up by 1017 00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:54.639 the trucks. And you know cause they just either heat, heat, 1018 00:52:54.679 --> 00:52:58.280 exhaustion or you know, twisted ankles and whatnot. 1019 00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:03.480 Yeah, yeah, and so what did that what was the 1020 00:53:03.519 --> 00:53:06.280 next like week to what how what did that set 1021 00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:08.280 in motion for you guys in particular? 1022 00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:12.719 So what a said of motion for us was, you know, 1023 00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:16.400 the priority tasking was to accountability and recovery of all 1024 00:53:17.079 --> 00:53:20.159 you know, members of that aircraft crew and then the 1025 00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:23.280 QRF team that was on there. So that totaled sixteen. 1026 00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:26.039 And so we got those numbers, you know, kind of 1027 00:53:26.079 --> 00:53:30.079 early afternoon and there was a small clearing on top 1028 00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:32.159 of the mountain. You could put a small helicopter like 1029 00:53:32.239 --> 00:53:35.599 little bird on it, but it was you know CDs 1030 00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:41.639 drops for demolitions and you know, basically had to create 1031 00:53:41.679 --> 00:53:44.719 an HLZ to be able to get everybody off that 1032 00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:48.679 mountain that you know, the remains for those guys. And 1033 00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:56.079 so it was kind of a was a good distraction, 1034 00:53:56.159 --> 00:54:00.599 if you will, to do timber charges and clear that 1035 00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:03.840 space to be able to make enough room to bring 1036 00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:07.880 you know, helicopter in. And and so we just finished 1037 00:54:07.880 --> 00:54:13.719 our regimental breachers course and uh so all that old stuff, 1038 00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:15.719 you know that that timber stuff was still fresh in 1039 00:54:15.719 --> 00:54:17.800 everybody's mind. So it was, uh, you know, we're all 1040 00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:19.360 sitting there trying to do the math and the first 1041 00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:23.559 starting to like use the peed method. Yeah, so we're 1042 00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:27.199 sending tree stumps and everything up, you know, like Roman candles. 1043 00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:29.360 It was, you know, just packing as much explosives in 1044 00:54:29.360 --> 00:54:31.360 these little burrow holes in or knees and launch it. 1045 00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:34.800 And so that that was fun. We cleared that and 1046 00:54:34.840 --> 00:54:38.079 then we got to tasking for you know, what would 1047 00:54:38.119 --> 00:54:43.320 turn out to be, go down the mountain and find Marcus, 1048 00:54:43.360 --> 00:54:46.679 and so that that started the fun of the mountain. 1049 00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:49.360 Weather moved in that night and dumped on us, and 1050 00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:52.000 we're trying to walk down hill and you know, the 1051 00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:54.760 trails a little stream bed at the time, and so 1052 00:54:54.880 --> 00:54:58.400 guys are slipping and falling and guys are trying to 1053 00:54:58.519 --> 00:55:01.599 not fall off the rid and then we end up, 1054 00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:03.880 uh just for safety reasons, you know, we end up 1055 00:55:03.880 --> 00:55:06.960 spending the last few hours kind of under pine trees 1056 00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:08.519 waiting for the sun to come up so that we 1057 00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:10.199 don't lose anybody. 1058 00:55:10.760 --> 00:55:12.639 How many guys did you have left in your platoon 1059 00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:13.280 at this point? 1060 00:55:14.480 --> 00:55:17.559 We had split the four so we had two squads 1061 00:55:17.559 --> 00:55:20.000 in the p LS package. So you know, the PT 1062 00:55:20.199 --> 00:55:23.559 leader R. T. O f O were with us, and 1063 00:55:23.599 --> 00:55:27.559 then the pat servant had his you know, uh, one 1064 00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:33.079 squad two machine guns, you know, on still on the 1065 00:55:33.079 --> 00:55:36.639 top and okay, on the on the top of the mountain, 1066 00:55:36.679 --> 00:55:43.280 and we knew what we were. Yeah, they were still 1067 00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:46.280 up there with with one Charlie and and reinforcing them, 1068 00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:48.719 and we're just kind of the the maneuver element, if 1069 00:55:48.760 --> 00:55:53.000 you will, going down and trying to confirm or deny 1070 00:55:53.079 --> 00:55:56.440 what this push to talk signal was that that we 1071 00:55:56.440 --> 00:56:01.599 were getting being triangulated down into this. I I always 1072 00:56:01.639 --> 00:56:03.199 forget the name of the village, so I can't even 1073 00:56:03.239 --> 00:56:03.760 remember it. 1074 00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:07.159 So you guys have you guys had to kind of 1075 00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:09.519 like hide hide out, not hide out, but you know, 1076 00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:12.760 take cover under the pine trees until dawn and then 1077 00:56:13.159 --> 00:56:16.199 continue to move down to where this you know, ostensibly 1078 00:56:16.239 --> 00:56:19.360 there was a sigate hit that you had to go investigate. 1079 00:56:19.880 --> 00:56:24.480 Right and so that was basically confirmed deny. You know, 1080 00:56:24.639 --> 00:56:29.480 was it enemy recovered American equipment or was it actually 1081 00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:33.920 in fact, you know, Murphy's team or you know what 1082 00:56:33.920 --> 00:56:36.920 what the question mark was still for that and that 1083 00:56:37.079 --> 00:56:38.800 was kind of where we were at from the tasking. 1084 00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:42.159 You know, the crash had been accounted for us and 1085 00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:43.639 now we're just trying to figure out, you know, the 1086 00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:48.599 fate of you know, this Foreman seal team and so 1087 00:56:48.679 --> 00:56:50.119 you'll finally push down in there. 1088 00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:53.920 Was it consistent signal that you guys were going off 1089 00:56:53.920 --> 00:56:56.440 of or was it just like a single a couple 1090 00:56:56.480 --> 00:56:59.599 of hits and they're like okay around this general area. 1091 00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:03.519 No, it was. It wasn't like a consistent but you 1092 00:57:03.559 --> 00:57:06.000 know it's like somebody just ken the can the push 1093 00:57:06.039 --> 00:57:10.239 to talk you know, intermittently enough to get a you know, 1094 00:57:10.280 --> 00:57:14.000 an orbital transmission to triangulate, uh, you know where it was. 1095 00:57:14.119 --> 00:57:18.760 And so it was kind of confirmed or deny what 1096 00:57:18.840 --> 00:57:20.960 that was. And so you know, there was an s 1097 00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:23.280 F team that was walking up that we tied in 1098 00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:27.119 with and uh then pushed back down into this this 1099 00:57:27.159 --> 00:57:30.880 little village. And then you know, as we're doing the 1100 00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:33.159 rangers smashed through all the doors and clearing the village. 1101 00:57:33.199 --> 00:57:35.519 You know, here comes Marcus, you know, from up from 1102 00:57:35.519 --> 00:57:38.920 where they had him hidden and kind of stashed, and 1103 00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:42.639 so you know, confirm that and then start you know, 1104 00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:43.280 doing the. 1105 00:57:44.760 --> 00:57:48.440 So so they actually brought Marcus out to meet you guys. 1106 00:57:49.239 --> 00:57:50.599 Right, and they knew why we were there, and they 1107 00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:52.440 knew what you were lying for, and so it was 1108 00:57:52.519 --> 00:57:54.760 to you know hand him over and then do the 1109 00:57:55.519 --> 00:57:57.199 you know, the kind of the whole s F thing 1110 00:57:57.239 --> 00:57:59.760 where they do the you know, let's drink some tea 1111 00:57:59.840 --> 00:58:02.280 and talk and you know, what. 1112 00:58:02.840 --> 00:58:05.039 Was that moment like, what was that moment like when 1113 00:58:05.079 --> 00:58:07.679 you first got face to face with Marcus and confirmed 1114 00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:10.840 this guy's alive? And what what was your your perception 1115 00:58:10.920 --> 00:58:11.280 of all that? 1116 00:58:14.800 --> 00:58:16.320 I don't know the big question. You know that we 1117 00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:18.199 you know, the first thing that we asked was once 1118 00:58:18.320 --> 00:58:20.599 you know, we went through the whole challenge and kind 1119 00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:22.639 of confirmed that it is him, you know, through the 1120 00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:25.079 whole you know, M I, P O, W, M I 1121 00:58:25.159 --> 00:58:27.360 A cards, you know, we all fill out, and going 1122 00:58:27.400 --> 00:58:31.239 through that, it was you know, dude, where's everybody else? 1123 00:58:33.760 --> 00:58:37.639 You know, and then you know it's like they're dead. 1124 00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:42.519 Well okay, great, not great, but you know it's like, okay, 1125 00:58:42.559 --> 00:58:48.840 but where they're on the mountain, that's it. You know, 1126 00:58:48.880 --> 00:58:52.000 it's kind of that you can't give me anything more. 1127 00:58:53.000 --> 00:58:55.599 The CITYO has just started kind of a frustration thing, 1128 00:58:55.639 --> 00:58:58.159 and I get it. You know, he's been you know, 1129 00:58:58.480 --> 00:59:00.440 that wasn't it probably wouldn't have been fun come down 1130 00:59:00.440 --> 00:59:02.480 that mountain the way he says he came down that mountain. 1131 00:59:03.519 --> 00:59:07.480 But you know, I I would like to hope to 1132 00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:09.679 think that, you know, my friends were dead on that mountain. 1133 00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:12.239 I can at least remember some kind of terrain feature 1134 00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:15.400 that I could at least tell somebody that they're you know, 1135 00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:16.880 they're up here in this area. 1136 00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:21.519 And so what was the next step after that initial 1137 00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:26.519 you had that initial questioning of Marcus, Uh, what what 1138 00:59:26.639 --> 00:59:27.760 happened next? 1139 00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:30.360 So then what happened next was, you know, we just 1140 00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:32.519 kind of secured the little village that we were at 1141 00:59:32.639 --> 00:59:36.360 and uh, you know, confirmed that it was him passed up, 1142 00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:39.119 you know, oversap that you know, we had him, and 1143 00:59:39.159 --> 00:59:40.559 then we were in control of him. And then we 1144 00:59:40.639 --> 00:59:43.039 just had to sit and wait for nightfall to come 1145 00:59:43.159 --> 00:59:44.800 so that we could bring in the middle of Backburg 1146 00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:50.000 and get him out. And then it just started, you know, 1147 00:59:52.119 --> 00:59:57.519 days and days and days of sweeping and searching this mountain. 1148 00:59:57.280 --> 00:59:59.320 Side for the rest of the team. 1149 00:59:59.679 --> 01:00:03.360 For the the rest of the team. 1150 01:00:03.719 --> 01:00:07.079 I mean, did you guys eventually find the remains of 1151 01:00:07.119 --> 01:00:09.559 those three other guys. 1152 01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:12.519 Yeah, we expilled Marcus in the next day. You know, 1153 01:00:12.519 --> 01:00:15.239 we were sweeping the lower portion of this of this 1154 01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:20.760 spur and the other half of our paton was coming 1155 01:00:20.760 --> 01:00:23.239 from the top of the ridge down we were just 1156 01:00:23.320 --> 01:00:24.960 kind of meeting in the middle. And so after we 1157 01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:27.480 had met in the middle and you know, kind of 1158 01:00:27.920 --> 01:00:31.400 traded information and they got a break, you know, they 1159 01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:33.320 started to climb back up for the night, and we 1160 01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:36.519 turned around and started coming back down to finish our suite. 1161 01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:40.119 They stumbled on on two of the remains just by 1162 01:00:40.199 --> 01:00:42.719 half instance, somebody lost their footing and slipped into a 1163 01:00:42.760 --> 01:00:47.239 little wash and ended up, you know, face first with 1164 01:00:47.239 --> 01:00:52.840 with two of them oh Man, and so well, the 1165 01:00:52.960 --> 01:00:54.719 rough part was that they still had to go like 1166 01:00:56.679 --> 01:01:01.679 eight meters vertically with you know, to two sets of remains, 1167 01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:05.079 and all we have is the old school poncho method 1168 01:01:05.119 --> 01:01:08.360 to carry him up, right, because you couldn't do it 1169 01:01:08.360 --> 01:01:10.039 with a litter. So it was wrapping them up in 1170 01:01:10.079 --> 01:01:13.320 the poncho and kind of getting them up as best 1171 01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:15.880 as possible, and you know, then they have to carry 1172 01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:19.199 it traverse them across the ridge back over to the 1173 01:01:19.199 --> 01:01:26.360 the HLZ and you know, then that was the hard 1174 01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:29.639 part is after that, now we're just looking for one person, right, 1175 01:01:29.960 --> 01:01:34.599 and you know, we ended up searching for oh Man, well, 1176 01:01:34.679 --> 01:01:37.320 probably another ten days before we got ripped out when 1177 01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:42.119 three seventy five came in. Yeah, and you know, at 1178 01:01:42.119 --> 01:01:45.199 that point, you know, we're fourteen days, twelve or twelve 1179 01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:48.320 days into this whole thing, and it's guys are just gassed. 1180 01:01:48.599 --> 01:01:51.920 Yeah, and I remember Tony saying that, I mean the weather, 1181 01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:55.719 you guys weren't getting enough water, that it was just 1182 01:01:56.639 --> 01:01:59.840 it was just non stop for you guys. 1183 01:02:00.639 --> 01:02:03.079 Yeah, it was you know, from sun up to sundown, 1184 01:02:03.159 --> 01:02:04.840 you know, and then you got to you know, we're 1185 01:02:04.840 --> 01:02:08.280 pulling security and small elements and so you're not getting 1186 01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:11.800 much sleep, and guys are getting sick with you know, 1187 01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:16.639 dehydration stuff or guys are getting you know, you know 1188 01:02:16.719 --> 01:02:19.800 what happens, and you you get a bad MR and 1189 01:02:19.840 --> 01:02:21.760 then you got a little bit of food poisoning or whatever, 1190 01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:25.960 and work doesn't stop. You just got to keep going. 1191 01:02:26.519 --> 01:02:28.320 You know, you've got a little bit of food poisoning 1192 01:02:28.320 --> 01:02:30.599 from an MR that may have spoiled and you ate 1193 01:02:30.679 --> 01:02:32.920 it anyway. And yeah. 1194 01:02:33.199 --> 01:02:39.280 So yeah, so you guys get ripped out before you 1195 01:02:40.039 --> 01:02:44.400 find the uh, the final body. 1196 01:02:45.400 --> 01:02:48.119 Yeah, and then but well we got ripped out and 1197 01:02:48.159 --> 01:02:50.360 then so I want to say it was probably eight 1198 01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:54.440 hours later, you know that three s five had had 1199 01:02:54.480 --> 01:03:00.440 found the uh, the last one, and so uh you 1200 01:03:00.679 --> 01:03:03.440 was we were happy that. We're upset that, you know, 1201 01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:06.960 we didn't end up finding him, you know, because somebody 1202 01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:08.639 else had to come in, but you know, we're glad 1203 01:03:08.639 --> 01:03:11.320 it was over with right right. 1204 01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:15.880 Well you said the you mentioned earlier on that you 1205 01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:20.719 know there were things that you pieced together years after uh, 1206 01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:22.719 the event because at the time, you know, you're a 1207 01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:25.920 you're a sergeant, You're you know, reacting on the ground 1208 01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:27.960 as things unfold in front of you, doing the best 1209 01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:30.440 you can. I just want to ask you real quick, 1210 01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:33.800 you know, what's your perception of what what happened out 1211 01:03:33.840 --> 01:03:37.119 there today versus what it was when you were actually 1212 01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:39.559 there as a younger man. I mean, is there anything 1213 01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:42.119 you've learned, anything that kind of like opened up your 1214 01:03:42.159 --> 01:03:46.440 scope or offered a wider context that was surprising to you, 1215 01:03:46.840 --> 01:03:49.960 or that kind of that you look at this event 1216 01:03:50.079 --> 01:03:52.119 much differently today than you did at the time. 1217 01:03:53.320 --> 01:03:57.880 I think it just what you know, it comes to 1218 01:03:57.920 --> 01:04:00.599 mind is you know, the the amount of that goes 1219 01:04:00.599 --> 01:04:03.079 into this type of situation. It's one of those things 1220 01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:06.719 that we never trained for. When you know, nobody ever 1221 01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:09.599 goes into a training scenario that we're gonna have aircraft 1222 01:04:09.599 --> 01:04:11.440 shot down, and we're gonna do this, and we're gonna 1223 01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:13.639 do that, and then all this kind of stuff and 1224 01:04:14.800 --> 01:04:18.840 so it's like the worst of everything, you know, as 1225 01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:21.519 far as the circumstances, and it's trying to understand all 1226 01:04:21.559 --> 01:04:24.119 the pieces, you know, the wizard behind the curtain, if 1227 01:04:24.159 --> 01:04:27.360 you will, of what's going on. And you know, it's 1228 01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:29.559 all the questions that we asked after we got back. 1229 01:04:29.599 --> 01:04:31.079 You know, why did it take so long for us 1230 01:04:31.119 --> 01:04:36.480 to launch? You know, what were the circumstances? And you know, 1231 01:04:36.519 --> 01:04:40.559 it's it's when this type of situation happens, it is 1232 01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:45.800 everything stops in in theater, uh, you know, and then 1233 01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:49.440 it's it's all assets shift focus, and it's trying to 1234 01:04:51.159 --> 01:04:53.719 put everything in place so that way, you know, like 1235 01:04:53.760 --> 01:04:55.920 I said, you know, when we do commit the force, 1236 01:04:56.360 --> 01:05:00.639 it is you know, with all the odds can be 1237 01:05:01.079 --> 01:05:05.039 stacked in our favor as best as possible. And so, 1238 01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:08.639 you know, not not to jump forward too far, but 1239 01:05:08.679 --> 01:05:10.199 you know, it's kind of one of those things that 1240 01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:12.960 always stuck in my head. And then when the Extortion 1241 01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:16.400 one seven shoot down happened, you know, we're on the 1242 01:05:16.440 --> 01:05:20.480 ground and so then it's I can explain, you know, 1243 01:05:20.480 --> 01:05:22.800 because I'm the old fart at this time. You know, 1244 01:05:22.840 --> 01:05:26.039 it's kind of explains. The voice on the fly is like, hey, look, 1245 01:05:26.360 --> 01:05:28.679 you know, this is what's happening behind the scene. You know, 1246 01:05:28.719 --> 01:05:31.000 we're here in the middle of it right now, but 1247 01:05:31.079 --> 01:05:34.480 this is what's going on on the backside. And so 1248 01:05:34.559 --> 01:05:36.039 it's not that you know, we're not going to get 1249 01:05:36.039 --> 01:05:38.639 things that we need, but there are steps and things 1250 01:05:38.679 --> 01:05:41.880 that have to that have to happen. And so it 1251 01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:44.159 was one of those that was the big learning lesson 1252 01:05:44.199 --> 01:05:47.639 for me was you know, what are what are all 1253 01:05:47.639 --> 01:05:52.719 these steps on the backside of of this type of scenario. 1254 01:05:53.320 --> 01:05:56.840 It's uh, it's we talked about on last Friday's episode. 1255 01:05:56.920 --> 01:06:00.519 I mean, it's it's amazing the effort that the US 1256 01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:04.800 military will go through to recover our soldiers, uh, even 1257 01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:07.639 if it's only to recover their remains, that will go 1258 01:06:07.679 --> 01:06:12.639 through incredible lengths to u to repatriate every American troop. 1259 01:06:13.559 --> 01:06:16.000 It's just incredible, right right. 1260 01:06:16.039 --> 01:06:22.159 You know that was you know, the war Fighter series 1261 01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:25.360 on History Channel. We did a segment with with this 1262 01:06:26.280 --> 01:06:31.320 Marcus Latreil Red Wings recovery and you know something that 1263 01:06:31.360 --> 01:06:34.079 he said, you know, it's you know, when they get 1264 01:06:34.119 --> 01:06:36.920 in trouble, you know, they it's it's not expected. But 1265 01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:38.800 you know when they say that the Rangers are coming in, 1266 01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:42.119 you know, it's they're coming in with everything, you know, 1267 01:06:42.159 --> 01:06:45.599 because you know, we're bringing everybody that we can, and 1268 01:06:45.639 --> 01:06:47.960 we're bringing all the toys and all the stuff, and 1269 01:06:48.400 --> 01:06:51.880 you know, we're bringing a big footprint. 1270 01:06:52.199 --> 01:06:56.920 And yeah, it. 1271 01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:02.519 I mean, and you know, even though it was it 1272 01:07:02.599 --> 01:07:04.480 was challenging for all the Rangers involved. 1273 01:07:04.480 --> 01:07:04.880 I mean. 1274 01:07:07.320 --> 01:07:09.559 We I mean, I'm grateful and I think you know, 1275 01:07:09.599 --> 01:07:13.360 obviously the families are, like everybody's grateful that those seals 1276 01:07:13.360 --> 01:07:17.480 did come home, you know, that they were found, because 1277 01:07:17.519 --> 01:07:20.599 that would also be a horrible, you know thing for 1278 01:07:20.679 --> 01:07:23.360 a family to go. Are they just out there missing? 1279 01:07:23.800 --> 01:07:26.360 You know, are they still alive being held somewhere like. 1280 01:07:26.599 --> 01:07:29.360 To this day, I mean, dpaa. I mean, we deal 1281 01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:32.639 with it with our Vietnam veterans. You know, there's like 1282 01:07:32.679 --> 01:07:36.280 one hundred and fifty Special Forces soldiers alone. I believe 1283 01:07:36.320 --> 01:07:40.199 we're missing somewhere on layouts in Cambodia, And I mean 1284 01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:41.000 that's just terrible. 1285 01:07:41.239 --> 01:07:41.519 Yeah. 1286 01:07:42.159 --> 01:07:49.239 Yeah, So after did it Aside from that, you guys 1287 01:07:49.360 --> 01:07:49.880 ripped out. 1288 01:07:49.960 --> 01:07:53.119 So you left Afghanistan at that point, correct. 1289 01:07:53.760 --> 01:07:55.599 Yeah, that was our last off. You know, we were 1290 01:07:55.639 --> 01:07:57.760 out of there. It was just a couple of days 1291 01:07:57.760 --> 01:08:00.840 long enough to you know, download the ammunition, pack everything up, 1292 01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:03.159 throwing the palette and get on aircraft. We were we 1293 01:08:03.159 --> 01:08:03.599 were out. 1294 01:08:04.280 --> 01:08:06.360 And then you turned around and then you were in 1295 01:08:06.440 --> 01:08:10.239 Mosoul in two thousand and six, and uh, I thought 1296 01:08:10.280 --> 01:08:13.440 you're Yeah, I thought that your uh, your chapter name, 1297 01:08:13.559 --> 01:08:17.159 Fast and Less Furious was funny. Can you can you 1298 01:08:17.159 --> 01:08:19.399 tell us why why you called your chapter that? 1299 01:08:21.039 --> 01:08:26.640 Uh, it was just a I'm not really sure anymore. 1300 01:08:26.760 --> 01:08:29.680 It was just kind of a play on words with 1301 01:08:29.840 --> 01:08:34.520 you know, I you know, things are speeding up in Afghanistan, 1302 01:08:34.600 --> 01:08:36.399 but you know, or in Iraq, but you know, not 1303 01:08:36.439 --> 01:08:40.119 necessarily are we having more fun? If you will, there's 1304 01:08:40.159 --> 01:08:43.000 not you know, we're smashing targets and taking guys in, 1305 01:08:43.039 --> 01:08:45.399 but we're not really getting in the fight. Yeah, gun 1306 01:08:45.439 --> 01:08:47.079 fights really going on. 1307 01:08:47.920 --> 01:08:51.079 And part of that the way what I got from 1308 01:08:51.119 --> 01:08:53.439 this chapter and the way you explain it, the reason 1309 01:08:53.479 --> 01:08:55.800 you weren't getting in a in as many gun fights 1310 01:08:56.439 --> 01:09:01.720 is because you guys had really nailed down how to 1311 01:09:01.760 --> 01:09:04.600 do these hits and that ninety eight percent of these 1312 01:09:04.680 --> 01:09:08.439 hits we're debt. We're done silently where the bad guys 1313 01:09:08.479 --> 01:09:10.359 never even knew you were there until. 1314 01:09:10.560 --> 01:09:12.079 Exactly you know, it was one of these. You know, 1315 01:09:12.199 --> 01:09:14.720 so we've just come out of Afghanistan, we've been dealing 1316 01:09:14.720 --> 01:09:17.800 with this, and you know, the other battalions are you know, 1317 01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:20.399 kind of setting this new trend, if you will, this 1318 01:09:20.439 --> 01:09:24.279 new ttp for this what we're calling silent entry. And 1319 01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:27.479 you know it's not the traditional ranger below the front door, open, 1320 01:09:27.560 --> 01:09:29.920 go in, smash everything. It's you know, how can we 1321 01:09:30.159 --> 01:09:34.720 come in as sneaky and quiet as absolutely possible. And 1322 01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:37.359 you know, basically we're waking people up out of a 1323 01:09:37.399 --> 01:09:41.399 dead sleep to take these targets. And so you know, 1324 01:09:41.920 --> 01:09:44.199 at first you're like, oh, this is such a big letdown, 1325 01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:46.600 But then as you start going on and it it 1326 01:09:46.680 --> 01:09:50.560 really becomes this thing that we're all kind of driving 1327 01:09:50.640 --> 01:09:53.720 for is you know, mission success is now not how 1328 01:09:53.800 --> 01:09:57.159 much can we smash, but how how successfully can we 1329 01:09:57.199 --> 01:10:02.560 get in repeatedly silently without firing any of these shots. 1330 01:10:02.560 --> 01:10:05.560 Because now we're getting all of this intel from all 1331 01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:08.920 these people through interrogations and all this stuff. And so 1332 01:10:09.199 --> 01:10:12.119 you know, when you shift your mindset kind of away 1333 01:10:12.119 --> 01:10:14.399 from the traditional you know what we'd like to call 1334 01:10:14.479 --> 01:10:17.520 the ranger smash, and now we're kind of playing on 1335 01:10:17.600 --> 01:10:21.079 the same TTPs and and kind of lines that you know, 1336 01:10:21.359 --> 01:10:23.920 Team six guys are playing on a Delta Forces playing 1337 01:10:23.920 --> 01:10:27.119 in and they've been having success for you know years, 1338 01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:29.960 and you know all kinds of settings around the world 1339 01:10:30.039 --> 01:10:31.720 that they're employed in. You know, we can as a 1340 01:10:31.800 --> 01:10:36.800 Ranger regiment, we can employ these types of you know, 1341 01:10:36.880 --> 01:10:40.840 operational guidelines that we're going to go do this and 1342 01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:42.880 we're going to do it as quietly and mission success 1343 01:10:42.960 --> 01:10:44.520 is now based on the amount of people that we 1344 01:10:44.560 --> 01:10:48.199 can not kill on target, but we can drag off target, right, 1345 01:10:50.039 --> 01:10:52.600 you know, and then it really becomes the driving force. 1346 01:10:52.720 --> 01:10:57.159 You know, mission success is now can we do it? 1347 01:10:57.199 --> 01:10:58.960 And how many times can we do it? And then 1348 01:10:59.079 --> 01:11:02.199 you know it's kind of not necessarily mission failure. But 1349 01:11:02.479 --> 01:11:04.600 you know, if shots are have to be you know 1350 01:11:04.920 --> 01:11:07.159 fired in, right, you know, what do we do wrong 1351 01:11:07.239 --> 01:11:12.399 that that got us into that gunfight? Because it's really impressive, 1352 01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:15.319 you know, as a leader when you can bring like 1353 01:11:16.319 --> 01:11:19.680 thirteen plus guys into a target building and roll up 1354 01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:24.880 fourteen or fifteen dudes without anybody knowing that you're even 1355 01:11:24.920 --> 01:11:29.520 in the room, right, And so you know, that was 1356 01:11:30.039 --> 01:11:32.600 you know, and then when we started going into two 1357 01:11:32.760 --> 01:11:35.560 other techniques later on, you know, was like, but we're 1358 01:11:35.600 --> 01:11:37.680 so good at this, why are we switching to doing 1359 01:11:37.800 --> 01:11:43.640 this this other thing? And you know, I never really 1360 01:11:43.680 --> 01:11:46.000 liked what we call prefer you know, later on it 1361 01:11:46.039 --> 01:11:48.840 would be the call out. And I understand the you know, 1362 01:11:48.840 --> 01:11:52.720 as a leader of the thought behind it is that 1363 01:11:52.760 --> 01:11:56.159 it's less risk of force because we're now telling the enemy. 1364 01:11:56.279 --> 01:11:58.800 And you know, for those of people who don't understand, 1365 01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:02.039 it's kind of like what you know a swat team 1366 01:12:02.079 --> 01:12:06.520 will do, or you know, the FBI does, you know, 1367 01:12:06.520 --> 01:12:09.279 when they surround a house or a compound or whatever 1368 01:12:09.319 --> 01:12:11.720 and then they're getting on loud speakers and they're telling 1369 01:12:11.760 --> 01:12:14.920 people to come out and surrender and and all that. 1370 01:12:14.960 --> 01:12:16.920 But you know, it's never the fun way to do. 1371 01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:21.239 It's kind of you know, if you will, it's boring. 1372 01:12:21.239 --> 01:12:23.640 Right, right, You walk us through like one of those 1373 01:12:23.640 --> 01:12:25.800 ops that really like stands out in your mind where 1374 01:12:26.119 --> 01:12:28.199 you know, you just kind of like pride open the 1375 01:12:28.199 --> 01:12:30.760 front door, and rangers and night vision just kind of 1376 01:12:30.760 --> 01:12:31.760 swept through and. 1377 01:12:34.520 --> 01:12:37.680 Well, there was uh mostli we we had one op 1378 01:12:37.760 --> 01:12:39.840 and I mean we had been in probably four or 1379 01:12:39.840 --> 01:12:43.000 five houses down the block trying to get the right house. 1380 01:12:43.079 --> 01:12:45.079 And when we finally did get the right house, you know, 1381 01:12:45.119 --> 01:12:47.600 we popped the front door open, all nice and quiet, 1382 01:12:47.640 --> 01:12:50.279 and I mean there was no there was no reverberation 1383 01:12:50.399 --> 01:12:52.479 off the metal door or anything. We had you know, 1384 01:12:52.560 --> 01:12:55.439 pressure and counter pressure working, and you know we ended 1385 01:12:55.520 --> 01:12:59.119 up you know, sliding in all nice and and quiet. 1386 01:12:59.199 --> 01:13:01.359 And then you know, I had a whole squad of guys, 1387 01:13:01.479 --> 01:13:03.680 you know, pulling security on dudes. And then it was 1388 01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:09.159 you know, we had the first floor, you know, secure 1389 01:13:09.560 --> 01:13:11.920 as as far as you know, guys are. We've got 1390 01:13:11.920 --> 01:13:14.239 guns on the right amount of people, and you know, 1391 01:13:14.279 --> 01:13:16.239 we've got a whole other squad is sneaking in to 1392 01:13:16.319 --> 01:13:18.039 take care of you know, what needs to be going 1393 01:13:18.079 --> 01:13:21.000 on upstairs, and everybody's all super quiet, and you know 1394 01:13:21.039 --> 01:13:23.720 we're basically we take the whole house down all in 1395 01:13:23.800 --> 01:13:27.279 one shot, and we end up with like sixteen detainees 1396 01:13:28.520 --> 01:13:31.039 and you know, the whole target's done in forty five minutes. 1397 01:13:31.039 --> 01:13:34.279 We got everybody's tagging bag. We've done all the sight 1398 01:13:34.359 --> 01:13:37.800 exploitation and you know, and then we're we're onto the 1399 01:13:37.840 --> 01:13:44.479 next objective. Yeah. So it's amazing when, you know, when 1400 01:13:45.399 --> 01:13:47.760 when you can look back at that and and be like, wow, 1401 01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:49.239 I was a part of that, and you know that 1402 01:13:49.239 --> 01:13:52.119 that worked out great and and you know when you 1403 01:13:52.159 --> 01:13:59.640 can explain you know that that is you know, mission 1404 01:13:59.640 --> 01:14:03.119 success because you know, intel drives the targeting, and when 1405 01:14:03.159 --> 01:14:06.680 you don't kill the intelligence, then you get more targets 1406 01:14:06.680 --> 01:14:09.720 and you get to go have more fun. And you know, 1407 01:14:10.640 --> 01:14:12.800 when you could explain that to the younger guys who 1408 01:14:12.800 --> 01:14:16.800 are you know, nineteen twenty and just kind of chomping 1409 01:14:16.840 --> 01:14:19.279 at the bit, and it's like, no, hey, to relax, relax, 1410 01:14:19.359 --> 01:14:23.880 We're being smooth, We're being quiet. You know, we started, 1411 01:14:23.920 --> 01:14:27.319 you know, climbing walls and and you know, then then 1412 01:14:27.319 --> 01:14:29.840 it would became the whole you know, can we do 1413 01:14:29.880 --> 01:14:32.199 a top down? You know, can we come in from 1414 01:14:32.199 --> 01:14:33.960 one building or can we ladder up the side of 1415 01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:36.319 the building. And you know, not only can we come 1416 01:14:36.359 --> 01:14:37.920 in from the ground floor, but can we send in 1417 01:14:37.960 --> 01:14:40.359 the salt force in from the top floor and still 1418 01:14:40.359 --> 01:14:43.680 do it all silent? You know, it just becomes a 1419 01:14:43.760 --> 01:14:51.119 whole other side of you know, this developing persona that 1420 01:14:51.199 --> 01:14:53.840 we're creating in the Ranger Regiments. Not just are we 1421 01:14:53.920 --> 01:14:57.039 the ability to go smash things, but we can be 1422 01:14:57.159 --> 01:15:00.760 as precision as anybody else, but do it with twice 1423 01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:01.479 as many people. 1424 01:15:01.840 --> 01:15:02.079 Right. 1425 01:15:04.840 --> 01:15:07.159 I want to take just one second here to give 1426 01:15:07.239 --> 01:15:14.680 a little advertisement actually for our own podcast. We have 1427 01:15:14.720 --> 01:15:17.039 a Patreon site and there's a link down the description. 1428 01:15:17.119 --> 01:15:19.319 If you guys check it out, and if you join, 1429 01:15:19.439 --> 01:15:22.199 you will get ad free episodes. You get all these 1430 01:15:22.199 --> 01:15:25.520 episodes without any of the ads in them. And there's 1431 01:15:25.520 --> 01:15:28.800 also a couple bonus episodes and bonus segments that you 1432 01:15:28.840 --> 01:15:32.119 guys can check out. So the links down the description, 1433 01:15:32.520 --> 01:15:33.680 that's all I wanted to throw out there. 1434 01:15:33.760 --> 01:15:34.039 Tonight. 1435 01:15:34.600 --> 01:15:37.319 You get deep thoughts by Jack and Dave sitting in 1436 01:15:37.359 --> 01:15:41.159 our smoking pajamas and uh, you know, talking about the 1437 01:15:41.159 --> 01:15:43.840 way of the world, plus a lot of great bonus content. 1438 01:15:43.960 --> 01:15:44.199 Yes. 1439 01:15:45.560 --> 01:15:50.319 But so then after Missoul, you guys did Ramadi, which 1440 01:15:50.359 --> 01:15:51.800 is a lot more of the same. But now you 1441 01:15:51.800 --> 01:15:54.159 guys are operating on boats. 1442 01:15:54.399 --> 01:15:57.239 Uh yeah, we're on the on the sweat boats, on 1443 01:15:57.319 --> 01:16:01.159 the sockars, no ship yep. So that you know it 1444 01:16:01.199 --> 01:16:04.079 was it was different. It was totally fun. I mean, 1445 01:16:04.520 --> 01:16:06.239 you know, because at the time, you got to remember 1446 01:16:06.840 --> 01:16:10.600 Ramadi and Flujah, they're still on the you know, it's 1447 01:16:10.600 --> 01:16:12.800 still a wild West out there. You know, the Marines 1448 01:16:12.840 --> 01:16:15.079 are still having it out all day long every day, 1449 01:16:15.119 --> 01:16:17.000 and we're trying to you know, kind of squeeze in 1450 01:16:17.039 --> 01:16:21.479 the seams and do what we're doing. And uh, you know, 1451 01:16:21.520 --> 01:16:23.159 we had a company commander at the time. He was 1452 01:16:23.239 --> 01:16:25.720 notorious for you know, any holiday. It was a day 1453 01:16:25.720 --> 01:16:28.199 that you know, he had been blown up and so 1454 01:16:28.279 --> 01:16:30.800 he didn't really like to drive anymore. And so he's like, 1455 01:16:30.840 --> 01:16:33.199 the only holiday I've never been blown up on is Halloween. 1456 01:16:33.279 --> 01:16:36.319 And so we took the ground of salt force out 1457 01:16:36.319 --> 01:16:40.720 and strikers and uh hit a target driving back and uh, 1458 01:16:41.439 --> 01:16:45.399 his truck gets popped, and you know, it's what we 1459 01:16:45.439 --> 01:16:47.880 call a catastrophic vehicle kills. So it's a striker, but 1460 01:16:47.880 --> 01:16:50.640 it had a whole penetration and it was enough to 1461 01:16:50.680 --> 01:16:53.880 penetrate the bottom of the floor and then what came 1462 01:16:53.960 --> 01:16:57.119 through stuck in the back of the seat on the driver. 1463 01:16:58.079 --> 01:17:00.600 But nobody, nobody was hurt. And you know, the testament 1464 01:17:00.600 --> 01:17:03.560 to the striker as a vehicle platform that we were using, 1465 01:17:03.600 --> 01:17:05.760 it blew all the circuit breakers in the vehicle and 1466 01:17:05.800 --> 01:17:07.600 all the driver had to do was just reach around, 1467 01:17:07.640 --> 01:17:10.239 push the breakers in and start back up. And it 1468 01:17:10.359 --> 01:17:12.800 drove all the way back to the gate and then 1469 01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:14.359 it gave up the ghosts, you know, the all the 1470 01:17:14.359 --> 01:17:17.079 steering linkage and the front broke apart and it was 1471 01:17:17.840 --> 01:17:21.720 plugging the uh the ECP there at the at the 1472 01:17:21.720 --> 01:17:24.520 gate onto Ramadi. And so that was kind of funny 1473 01:17:24.520 --> 01:17:26.960 because we had to move the the t barriers out 1474 01:17:27.000 --> 01:17:28.800 of the way to open it up so we could 1475 01:17:28.800 --> 01:17:31.199 get the record in there to hook onto it, because 1476 01:17:31.199 --> 01:17:33.439 there wasn't a way to pull it through the chicanes 1477 01:17:35.079 --> 01:17:37.119 with with that with all those barricades in place, so 1478 01:17:37.159 --> 01:17:38.640 we had to you know, it was probably a three 1479 01:17:38.680 --> 01:17:42.000 hour process to get that truck through the gate. You know, 1480 01:17:42.039 --> 01:17:45.159 we got all the marine convoys and the army convoys 1481 01:17:45.159 --> 01:17:47.800 and body they're all backed up sitting outside waiting for 1482 01:17:47.880 --> 01:17:52.000 us to move our piece of junk. And so after that, 1483 01:17:52.079 --> 01:17:53.880 you know, the team six guys were like, hey, we've 1484 01:17:53.920 --> 01:17:56.239 got you know, the boats are down you know at 1485 01:17:56.239 --> 01:17:59.880 the little off site you know, on the on the river, 1486 01:18:00.279 --> 01:18:03.680 and you know we could start employing those and so 1487 01:18:03.800 --> 01:18:07.520 we started doing you know, boats in, helicopters out, or 1488 01:18:07.520 --> 01:18:10.239 helicopters in and boats out, and that's pretty cool kind 1489 01:18:10.239 --> 01:18:13.319 of and riding the rivers. And it was definitely really 1490 01:18:13.319 --> 01:18:17.000 cool because we could get way closer to target on 1491 01:18:17.039 --> 01:18:22.119 the boats than you could with you know, helicopters without 1492 01:18:22.119 --> 01:18:25.239 the noise signature. And it just you know, opened up 1493 01:18:25.279 --> 01:18:29.000 a whole nother avenue of a technique that we hadn't 1494 01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:35.680 really you know, been utilizing. And it was Yeah, I 1495 01:18:36.039 --> 01:18:38.520 just I'm the only thing I wish that it was 1496 01:18:38.800 --> 01:18:40.920 it had been in the summertime instead of in the winter. 1497 01:18:42.600 --> 01:18:45.319 I've never been to Ramadi before, so I'm actually looking 1498 01:18:45.399 --> 01:18:47.399 up on the map. So the Euphrates kind of runs 1499 01:18:47.479 --> 01:18:49.199 right through the center of the city and there's a 1500 01:18:49.239 --> 01:18:52.159 few like outlets, one of one of which it looks 1501 01:18:52.159 --> 01:18:54.319 like it runs right into like the city center. 1502 01:18:56.520 --> 01:18:56.800 Right. 1503 01:18:57.439 --> 01:18:59.720 That's pretty that's pretty cool, man. So you were you 1504 01:18:59.760 --> 01:19:01.720 said we were able to get closer to target using 1505 01:19:01.760 --> 01:19:02.600 the boats. 1506 01:19:02.960 --> 01:19:04.920 Yeah, we could get within you know, a k of 1507 01:19:05.359 --> 01:19:08.119 the target building or you know, depending sometimes it was 1508 01:19:08.159 --> 01:19:11.239 within you know, four or five hundred meters of the target. 1509 01:19:11.279 --> 01:19:14.319 And so you know, you have a last you know, 1510 01:19:14.359 --> 01:19:17.640 the LCC is you know basically at the boat drop 1511 01:19:17.680 --> 01:19:20.119 off point on the beach and then you know, move 1512 01:19:20.199 --> 01:19:24.720 the target and take the target down, and you know, 1513 01:19:24.800 --> 01:19:30.119 then moved to Xville and you know, just short helicopter 1514 01:19:30.199 --> 01:19:32.239 ride back onto the base and so it was uh, 1515 01:19:32.479 --> 01:19:34.279 you know, it was definitely fun because we were the 1516 01:19:34.960 --> 01:19:39.159 one of the first to actually implement it and so, uh, 1517 01:19:40.439 --> 01:19:41.720 you know, we kind of got to be on the 1518 01:19:41.880 --> 01:19:43.399 on the front side of that. As far as what 1519 01:19:43.439 --> 01:19:46.239 the rangers were doing with you know, boat boat ops. 1520 01:19:49.079 --> 01:19:54.000 Yeah, now did you guys did you guys have those? 1521 01:19:54.119 --> 01:19:56.079 I mean, I know that boat ops was always supposed 1522 01:19:56.119 --> 01:19:57.800 to be a ranger thing, but it really we only 1523 01:19:58.079 --> 01:20:01.119 at least like in the nineties, we only use for training. Like, 1524 01:20:01.199 --> 01:20:04.840 did you guys have those in theater? Did you acquire them? 1525 01:20:04.840 --> 01:20:07.239 Did somebody else have them and you borrow them? How 1526 01:20:07.239 --> 01:20:08.159 did that all start? 1527 01:20:08.880 --> 01:20:11.279 Well, it was the They were the quick boats, so 1528 01:20:11.359 --> 01:20:14.119 the teams brought them and so the Swick teams are 1529 01:20:14.119 --> 01:20:15.840 the guys they were manning all the boats, and so 1530 01:20:15.840 --> 01:20:18.800 they're the sofcars that the you know, the nine hundred 1531 01:20:18.800 --> 01:20:25.800 horsepower twin jet drive uh, you know, forty foot assault 1532 01:20:25.840 --> 01:20:28.199 boats and so you know, they've got a whole there's 1533 01:20:28.199 --> 01:20:30.640 a whole crew, these navy guys that drive the boats, 1534 01:20:30.680 --> 01:20:32.880 gun the boats. All we did was just get a ride. 1535 01:20:33.520 --> 01:20:35.760 And that's pretty cool. 1536 01:20:36.359 --> 01:20:39.279 I never even knew the rangers did that. That's interesting. 1537 01:20:40.720 --> 01:20:43.840 Yeah, it was. It was definitely fun. You know, in 1538 01:20:43.880 --> 01:20:46.039 the in the boats of you know, everybody's like, well, 1539 01:20:46.079 --> 01:20:47.920 I wouldn't want to do that. Well, it's a fully 1540 01:20:48.039 --> 01:20:50.920 armored boat. You know, it's nine hundred horse power. They'll 1541 01:20:50.960 --> 01:20:52.279 do fifty miles. 1542 01:20:52.079 --> 01:20:55.039 An hour on the water and safer than drive places. 1543 01:20:55.199 --> 01:20:57.279 It's safer than driving down a road that's packedfull. 1544 01:20:57.359 --> 01:20:59.800 I yeah, unless they're like deploying yeah, mines or something 1545 01:21:00.279 --> 01:21:01.239 mine dog men. 1546 01:21:01.520 --> 01:21:02.279 Yeah, exactly. 1547 01:21:03.439 --> 01:21:05.279 Well, there had been there was a time, you know, 1548 01:21:05.359 --> 01:21:08.239 early on where the enemy had been trying to figure 1549 01:21:08.239 --> 01:21:10.720 out how to id the river and they could figure 1550 01:21:10.720 --> 01:21:12.399 out how to do it, and there wasn't any success. 1551 01:21:12.439 --> 01:21:14.680 Whether they had tried hanging them from the bridges, but 1552 01:21:14.840 --> 01:21:16.920 you know you can see that, and then they tried 1553 01:21:16.960 --> 01:21:20.600 to plant them in the river banks, but it wasn't 1554 01:21:20.720 --> 01:21:23.760 anything that was going to cause any kind of lethality 1555 01:21:24.199 --> 01:21:26.560 to the boats. So they just basically gave it up 1556 01:21:26.600 --> 01:21:28.399 as like, well, if they're going to use them, then 1557 01:21:28.439 --> 01:21:30.000 there's something that we can do about it until they 1558 01:21:30.000 --> 01:21:30.720 come on target. 1559 01:21:33.439 --> 01:21:37.319 So I know that. So we have like more Missoul 1560 01:21:37.399 --> 01:21:38.239 in Afghanistan. 1561 01:21:38.359 --> 01:21:40.039 I don't want to leave too much out, but I 1562 01:21:40.079 --> 01:21:43.560 also really want to get to I want to talk 1563 01:21:43.640 --> 01:21:46.159 about twenty eleven. 1564 01:21:47.159 --> 01:21:50.359 Okay, I want to make sure we talk about that. 1565 01:21:51.159 --> 01:21:54.079 Am I missing anything? All space? Yeah? 1566 01:21:54.119 --> 01:21:58.439 So can we talk about about your injury, about how 1567 01:21:58.479 --> 01:21:59.439 all that came about? 1568 01:22:01.199 --> 01:22:03.960 Yeah? So do you want to skip the extortions? Oh? 1569 01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:06.439 No, No, let's talk about the extortion. Yeah, let's talk 1570 01:22:06.439 --> 01:22:08.800 about extortion on first. Yeah, sorry about that. 1571 01:22:09.479 --> 01:22:13.800 No, that's okay, we can. So this was kind of 1572 01:22:13.840 --> 01:22:18.840 the the twenty eleven deployment was it was the last 1573 01:22:18.880 --> 01:22:22.039 of the surge, the Special Ops surge into you know, 1574 01:22:22.079 --> 01:22:27.880 Petreus's surge into Afghanistan and and kind of increasing that force. So, uh, 1575 01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:31.640 BICO was the last company and second Arrange battalion to 1576 01:22:33.680 --> 01:22:38.640 surge whether stay late or or go early. And so 1577 01:22:38.680 --> 01:22:41.520 we had just finished the the KPEX at Fort Bragg, 1578 01:22:41.560 --> 01:22:43.640 which is the big you know, the Special Ops dog 1579 01:22:43.680 --> 01:22:47.079 and pony show for Congressman and uh you know, the 1580 01:22:47.079 --> 01:22:50.800 President and all that stuff, which was fine because it 1581 01:22:50.840 --> 01:22:53.039 gave us, you know, an extra week of training with 1582 01:22:53.239 --> 01:22:57.600 you know one sixtieth and some you know, platoon time 1583 01:22:57.640 --> 01:23:00.479 if you will, to run around of work through fine tunes, 1584 01:23:00.520 --> 01:23:03.880 some TTPs and some s ops and break some of 1585 01:23:03.880 --> 01:23:07.119 the new guys a little bit tighter online with you know, 1586 01:23:07.159 --> 01:23:11.880 how we're gonna accomplish these these tasks when we're getting overseas. 1587 01:23:11.920 --> 01:23:17.359 So you know, we got task to go to Bob 1588 01:23:17.439 --> 01:23:24.159 Shank and be passed with Team six, uh under their command, 1589 01:23:24.239 --> 01:23:27.079 and so h we went over and and did that, 1590 01:23:27.239 --> 01:23:29.000 and uh, you know, we had a pretty good working 1591 01:23:29.039 --> 01:23:35.239 relationship with with the Gold Squadron for for that uh 1592 01:23:35.760 --> 01:23:40.119 early part of that deployment. And then the uh, you know, 1593 01:23:40.760 --> 01:23:44.880 night of August six rolls around and so objective Left 1594 01:23:44.880 --> 01:23:47.119 to Grow comes up on the table as a you know, 1595 01:23:47.119 --> 01:23:51.239 it's a a target that had been tracked and chased 1596 01:23:51.239 --> 01:23:53.960 and kind of lost but never could get a lot 1597 01:23:53.960 --> 01:23:56.560 of fidelity to to it because he's a pretty dynamic 1598 01:23:56.640 --> 01:23:59.960 target meeting. He's constantly on the move and and you know, 1599 01:24:00.119 --> 01:24:03.319 hard to nail down to one location. But he had 1600 01:24:03.680 --> 01:24:06.239 rolled into the Tangy Valley on this you know, this 1601 01:24:06.359 --> 01:24:09.600 day and singing. It had kind of pinned him into 1602 01:24:09.640 --> 01:24:13.279 a certain location inside the the valley and in a 1603 01:24:13.319 --> 01:24:16.279 little cluster of buildings, and it was enough that it 1604 01:24:16.399 --> 01:24:18.880 was probably about seventy percent fidelity on the on the 1605 01:24:18.920 --> 01:24:22.319 objective targeting that it was. It was still solid, and 1606 01:24:22.359 --> 01:24:24.000 we had just come off a few days of weather 1607 01:24:24.720 --> 01:24:27.479 and uh, we're looking at maybe some more days of 1608 01:24:27.520 --> 01:24:30.239 weather on the back end of this. So it was 1609 01:24:30.479 --> 01:24:32.960 we had this little like two day window of good 1610 01:24:32.960 --> 01:24:34.960 weather to do an op and I was kind of 1611 01:24:36.199 --> 01:24:41.039 you know, looked at the at my peel and you know, 1612 01:24:41.079 --> 01:24:43.720 we went to chow and we were sitting there having 1613 01:24:43.720 --> 01:24:45.640 the conversation. I'm like, look, I'm willing to take a 1614 01:24:45.680 --> 01:24:49.319 swing at seventy percent, you know for this target. You know, uh, 1615 01:24:49.840 --> 01:24:51.760 you know we're gonna be stuck sitting for weather for 1616 01:24:51.800 --> 01:24:55.039 a few days. And I don't you know, we've already 1617 01:24:55.039 --> 01:24:58.159 been stuck sitting and Rangers doesn't do well sitting sitting 1618 01:24:58.159 --> 01:25:01.840 around with with whether if we don't have anything to do. 1619 01:25:02.000 --> 01:25:03.640 So you know, I was like, I'm willing to take 1620 01:25:03.640 --> 01:25:05.479 a swing at seventy you know, we're going into the 1621 01:25:05.560 --> 01:25:11.479 Tangy Valley. So it's basically a guaranteed gunfight, and you know, 1622 01:25:11.640 --> 01:25:13.479 what do you think And he's like, yeah, I'm willing 1623 01:25:13.560 --> 01:25:15.560 to take a swing on seventy percent. So we went 1624 01:25:15.600 --> 01:25:17.760 back and pitched it that will take a swing at 1625 01:25:17.800 --> 01:25:19.600 it and if nothing else, you know, we'll let him 1626 01:25:19.600 --> 01:25:21.560 know that we're chasing him and kind of break his 1627 01:25:21.600 --> 01:25:24.760 pattern of life. And usually when we can do that 1628 01:25:24.880 --> 01:25:26.760 and break the pattern of life on people, that's when 1629 01:25:26.760 --> 01:25:33.039 they start making mistakes and it becomes easier to you know, launch, 1630 01:25:33.199 --> 01:25:35.800 launch a follow on operation because he's not sure what 1631 01:25:35.880 --> 01:25:40.279 he needs to do. And so, you know, we drew 1632 01:25:40.359 --> 01:25:45.960 up the plan and got approval and then brief the plan, 1633 01:25:46.039 --> 01:25:49.039 pitched the plan to the boys and you know, one 1634 01:25:49.079 --> 01:25:52.920 of the only times I've ever told the boys we 1635 01:25:53.319 --> 01:25:55.199 actually it was the only time I ever told him. 1636 01:25:55.199 --> 01:25:57.079 I was like, you know, this is the Tangy Valley 1637 01:25:57.119 --> 01:25:59.479 and it's not an if we're going to get into 1638 01:25:59.479 --> 01:26:02.239 a gunfight. It is a one we are walking into 1639 01:26:02.319 --> 01:26:05.399 a gunfight on this night. And there's a reason why 1640 01:26:06.239 --> 01:26:09.960 we only go into this value on the no illumination cycle, 1641 01:26:10.199 --> 01:26:15.159 and that's because they're going to shoot at anything, helicopters, aircraft, people, 1642 01:26:15.760 --> 01:26:19.039 So you know, switch it on, put it on straight, 1643 01:26:19.199 --> 01:26:21.359 and you know we're going to get it on tonight. 1644 01:26:21.560 --> 01:26:25.399 And so we had an uneventful you know infield when 1645 01:26:25.960 --> 01:26:29.079 no rounds taken because we had flown in extortion one 1646 01:26:29.119 --> 01:26:32.760 six and one seven had been our infield aircraft. And 1647 01:26:32.840 --> 01:26:37.680 so then they flew back cycle through and Gold Squadron 1648 01:26:37.760 --> 01:26:42.479 was on QRF for for us or any follow on 1649 01:26:42.800 --> 01:26:46.439 objectives that came up from what we were doing. And 1650 01:26:48.600 --> 01:26:52.720 so infield, got the guys, got the boys on the ground, uh, 1651 01:26:52.800 --> 01:26:55.840 you know, started moving to the objective, got word that 1652 01:26:56.039 --> 01:27:00.439 you know, there was eight to ten and we fighters 1653 01:27:00.479 --> 01:27:06.840 moving off the objective, and so we uh pulled the formation, 1654 01:27:07.119 --> 01:27:10.239 got clearance for fires with the Apache gun ships and 1655 01:27:10.239 --> 01:27:13.399 and lit into them with the Apatche gunships two gun 1656 01:27:13.479 --> 01:27:18.359 runs per aircraft and and then push the target uneventful 1657 01:27:18.359 --> 01:27:23.279 after that, and then cleared through the the contact and 1658 01:27:23.760 --> 01:27:27.079 had stirred up a bunch of you know stuff in 1659 01:27:27.399 --> 01:27:29.920 the valley, and so you know, I was it's just 1660 01:27:30.479 --> 01:27:33.960 you know, guys in their rebel rousing, trying to get 1661 01:27:33.960 --> 01:27:36.319 guys to come out and you know, gather a force 1662 01:27:36.399 --> 01:27:38.840 to come and fight. And so we're clearing through our 1663 01:27:38.880 --> 01:27:43.520 target and uh, you know, it's it's looking good for 1664 01:27:44.880 --> 01:27:47.159 what's being seen on is R because they're seeing a 1665 01:27:47.159 --> 01:27:48.880 bigger picture than what I've seen within you know, a 1666 01:27:48.960 --> 01:27:52.399 thousand meters circle of my objective. And so the the 1667 01:27:52.439 --> 01:27:55.640 call came from the from the jock to my petun 1668 01:27:55.720 --> 01:27:57.800 leader and myself was like, hey, are you guys gonna 1669 01:27:57.840 --> 01:27:59.840 go You know, you're gonna go push farther into the 1670 01:27:59.840 --> 01:28:06.239 back and you know, taking on this contact. And at 1671 01:28:06.279 --> 01:28:08.399 the time, you know, we're working a pretty good objective 1672 01:28:08.399 --> 01:28:10.119 and we were actually kind of thought we had what 1673 01:28:10.159 --> 01:28:12.239 we were looking for on the objective as far as 1674 01:28:12.239 --> 01:28:15.960 who we went into the the valley to get and 1675 01:28:16.000 --> 01:28:19.000 we said, no, you know, we think we're working at 1676 01:28:19.279 --> 01:28:22.479 and we have what we want. They said, you know, 1677 01:28:22.560 --> 01:28:24.880 do you care if you know gold squadron comes in 1678 01:28:24.960 --> 01:28:28.439 and you know it starts there on movement to contact 1679 01:28:28.600 --> 01:28:31.039 on the rest of this objective and you know, about 1680 01:28:31.039 --> 01:28:33.000 five k to the west of you. And I said, well, 1681 01:28:33.000 --> 01:28:37.000 that's plenty of deconfliction of space for small arms fire. 1682 01:28:37.359 --> 01:28:39.520 So if they want to come in, you know, and 1683 01:28:39.560 --> 01:28:41.479 that's what they want to do, good on them. You know, 1684 01:28:41.680 --> 01:28:48.239 it's had been a pre briefed h discussion between malteltoone 1685 01:28:48.279 --> 01:28:50.600 leader myself, Jonas. 1686 01:28:50.239 --> 01:28:54.680 And Lou the master chief and the commander for the 1687 01:28:54.720 --> 01:28:57.359 Gold Squadron, that hey, look, if it does ever happen 1688 01:28:57.439 --> 01:28:59.359 that it's a single objective, but we end up bringing 1689 01:28:59.399 --> 01:29:01.840 in the other al, you know, we'll link up and 1690 01:29:01.840 --> 01:29:05.039 then we'll just kind of work Xville, you know as it. 1691 01:29:05.039 --> 01:29:06.680 Plays out, and if we have cycle aircraft and a 1692 01:29:06.800 --> 01:29:10.880 cycle aircraft and you know, we'll just get it done 1693 01:29:11.680 --> 01:29:14.439 and it's like okay, great, awesome. So we knew how 1694 01:29:14.439 --> 01:29:15.760 that was going to go, and we kind of had 1695 01:29:15.760 --> 01:29:18.520 a pre pre planned position where we were going to 1696 01:29:18.560 --> 01:29:24.239 link up, you know, if that had happened. And you know, 1697 01:29:24.279 --> 01:29:28.920 we got the word that they were loading on the 1698 01:29:29.000 --> 01:29:33.439 extortion and we weren't sure which way they were going 1699 01:29:33.479 --> 01:29:35.279 to come into the valley, and we kind of said, hey, 1700 01:29:35.279 --> 01:29:38.039 we recommend, you know, if you overfly our objective, then 1701 01:29:38.039 --> 01:29:42.560 we could at least, you know, provide groundcover for anything. 1702 01:29:43.720 --> 01:29:47.560 And you know, but well, you know, we only get 1703 01:29:47.680 --> 01:29:49.880 a small amount of say, and it doesn't really carry 1704 01:29:50.079 --> 01:29:52.479 that much weight as far as what the airplanners are doing, 1705 01:29:53.960 --> 01:29:56.359 you know, because these are conventional aircraft. So the pilots 1706 01:29:56.359 --> 01:29:58.760 are only flying what's been improved through their S three 1707 01:29:58.800 --> 01:30:01.520 Air shop and and so, you know, what we were 1708 01:30:01.560 --> 01:30:03.800 saying to our job is not necessarily making it over 1709 01:30:03.840 --> 01:30:06.199 to theirs. And so we were like, well, okay, so 1710 01:30:06.279 --> 01:30:08.079 you get the call that their wheels up and they're 1711 01:30:08.119 --> 01:30:13.359 ten minutes out, and so we wanted to clear one 1712 01:30:13.359 --> 01:30:16.000 more building. So we've kind of pushed to try and 1713 01:30:16.000 --> 01:30:19.960 clear the building real quick and get the call that 1714 01:30:20.079 --> 01:30:23.560 you know, there are six minutes out, and then three 1715 01:30:23.600 --> 01:30:25.920 minutes out, and so we held our assault and what 1716 01:30:25.960 --> 01:30:27.880 we're doing, and we're just kind of sitting there waiting 1717 01:30:28.319 --> 01:30:30.840 and I'm waiting. I'm waiting to see the bird's flush 1718 01:30:30.880 --> 01:30:33.239 after infill and so that we're not you know, if 1719 01:30:33.239 --> 01:30:35.439 we end up shooting on target, that we're not getting 1720 01:30:35.479 --> 01:30:38.960 to ricocheting something into aircraft because they're within you know, 1721 01:30:39.960 --> 01:30:45.000 small arms distance, and then that that never happened, kind 1722 01:30:45.039 --> 01:30:48.079 of wondering what's going on, and then we get over 1723 01:30:48.119 --> 01:30:50.279 the fires in it from the FOS that there's a 1724 01:30:50.319 --> 01:30:53.720 fallen angel and I had known what the you know, 1725 01:30:53.760 --> 01:30:58.680 the pro word, if you will is, and it's just 1726 01:30:58.800 --> 01:31:00.640 kind of dumb struck by and I said, say that 1727 01:31:00.720 --> 01:31:03.840 again and He's like, where I've fallen angel? And I 1728 01:31:03.880 --> 01:31:06.560 was like, okay, now, so that my brain and my 1729 01:31:07.119 --> 01:31:11.119 you know, it's all connecting, you know, speaking English, and 1730 01:31:11.439 --> 01:31:15.640 he goes, extortion has been shot down, and I was like, okay, great. 1731 01:31:16.680 --> 01:31:18.479 So then it was you know, how fast can we 1732 01:31:19.239 --> 01:31:22.199 back out of this target building? How fast can I 1733 01:31:22.239 --> 01:31:24.159 get the guys on the road and get them to 1734 01:31:24.199 --> 01:31:27.560 start moving even though we don't know exactly where it 1735 01:31:27.640 --> 01:31:31.199 is yet, it's I just know the general direction that 1736 01:31:31.239 --> 01:31:33.000 we need to go, which was to the west. And 1737 01:31:33.079 --> 01:31:36.359 so we got the boys back out of the objective, 1738 01:31:36.600 --> 01:31:39.840 off the objective and we're moving in about three minutes, 1739 01:31:40.840 --> 01:31:42.720 you know, as far as getting guys pushed out, and 1740 01:31:42.720 --> 01:31:45.439 then it's trying to all the weapons and everything that 1741 01:31:45.439 --> 01:31:49.760 we had accumulated on our objective. Is trying to take 1742 01:31:49.800 --> 01:31:52.479 all that stuff with us and you know, get everybody 1743 01:31:52.520 --> 01:31:57.159 and everything on the move and not leave. You know, 1744 01:31:57.439 --> 01:32:02.079 all this stuff too potentially be shot in the back 1745 01:32:02.119 --> 01:32:04.399 with it, so send it forward and find a place 1746 01:32:04.439 --> 01:32:08.079 to blow it in place. And you know, then the 1747 01:32:08.159 --> 01:32:09.840 question comes to, like what do we do with all 1748 01:32:09.840 --> 01:32:12.960 these detainees, and so it just becomes well, leave them, 1749 01:32:14.319 --> 01:32:18.039 and you know, people are like, well, you're gonna untie them. 1750 01:32:18.079 --> 01:32:19.560 I was like, nope, somebody will come over and cut 1751 01:32:19.600 --> 01:32:25.079 them loose later. I'm not not cutting anybody loose. They 1752 01:32:25.119 --> 01:32:27.399 can figure it out, right. And so we've got off 1753 01:32:27.399 --> 01:32:30.239 the objective and start moving. I just, you know, well, 1754 01:32:30.479 --> 01:32:32.920 I'll never forget you know, when the lead element and 1755 01:32:33.000 --> 01:32:36.399 the snipers and the dog handler finally got with an 1756 01:32:36.439 --> 01:32:40.319 eyesight of you know, around the terrain feature and it 1757 01:32:40.439 --> 01:32:44.840 was just this you know, I won't use the profanity, 1758 01:32:44.960 --> 01:32:47.000 but it was one of those oh my god moments. 1759 01:32:47.960 --> 01:32:49.720 You know, the whole night sky is just lit up 1760 01:32:49.760 --> 01:32:54.920 with just fire and you know, the burning wreck of it, 1761 01:32:55.000 --> 01:32:59.239 and you know, you know, we're still trying to figure out, 1762 01:32:59.279 --> 01:33:01.640 you know, the fastest way, and you know, should we 1763 01:33:02.119 --> 01:33:04.119 you know, so the tangy road that runs through this 1764 01:33:04.199 --> 01:33:06.840 valley is heavily ied'ed. I mean it's ied like every 1765 01:33:06.960 --> 01:33:09.560 three to four hundred meters. There's something planted in that 1766 01:33:09.680 --> 01:33:12.279 road and it's to stop you know, the trucks. And 1767 01:33:12.359 --> 01:33:14.119 so there was this you know, do we want to 1768 01:33:14.119 --> 01:33:17.600 go over land? And I told the po's like, hey, 1769 01:33:17.600 --> 01:33:21.239 look sir, my recommendation. We got to assume the risk 1770 01:33:21.279 --> 01:33:22.720 the force and we're just going to have to stay 1771 01:33:22.720 --> 01:33:25.680 on the road because we got to get there. And 1772 01:33:25.720 --> 01:33:27.640 he said, I agree. So we just you know, I 1773 01:33:28.000 --> 01:33:30.000 told the dog and the handler up front. It was like, 1774 01:33:30.039 --> 01:33:32.439 if it looks suspicious or he wants us, you know, 1775 01:33:32.520 --> 01:33:38.760 to you know, say that there's something in the road, 1776 01:33:38.800 --> 01:33:41.640 and just mark it and mark it good, and just 1777 01:33:41.760 --> 01:33:43.520 tell everybody to stay out of the way because we 1778 01:33:43.600 --> 01:33:47.399 got to go. And so it took us about an 1779 01:33:47.399 --> 01:33:51.920 hour to go the five k to get up there, 1780 01:33:54.159 --> 01:33:57.000 and then you know, it's a kind of trying to 1781 01:33:57.039 --> 01:34:00.359 put this whole thing together on the fly, and you know, 1782 01:34:00.560 --> 01:34:02.960 everybody's radios are going nuts as far as you know, 1783 01:34:03.000 --> 01:34:06.039 the pl these you know, like basically glue to the 1784 01:34:06.079 --> 01:34:08.880 stat radio and just like, hey, sir, we've got to 1785 01:34:08.960 --> 01:34:11.000 I need some information here, you know, we gotta you 1786 01:34:11.039 --> 01:34:13.079 gotta tell me how many people on this aircraft, you know. 1787 01:34:13.840 --> 01:34:16.600 So we're working through that and it's you know, I 1788 01:34:16.680 --> 01:34:20.680 finally get the numbers and I'm thinking, you know, it's 1789 01:34:20.680 --> 01:34:23.439 half the force, and I'm like, okay, so and they 1790 01:34:23.760 --> 01:34:26.039 you know, but he gave me the number thirty eight 1791 01:34:26.399 --> 01:34:28.479 and I was like, so, how many are on the 1792 01:34:28.520 --> 01:34:31.720 other aircraft. You know, I'm not joking about it. I'm like, 1793 01:34:31.880 --> 01:34:33.840 I'm in disbelief. It's like, how many people are on 1794 01:34:33.880 --> 01:34:41.239 the other aircraft then goes empty ship and I was like, oh, 1795 01:34:41.760 --> 01:34:44.600 you know, it's like for those people that don'ts you know, 1796 01:34:44.600 --> 01:34:48.520 that aren't listening, that aren't you know. In the military 1797 01:34:48.920 --> 01:34:51.359 mindset of this is that, you know, it's a technique, 1798 01:34:51.399 --> 01:34:53.399 and it's not a bad technique. You know, it's a 1799 01:34:53.520 --> 01:34:56.039 it's a risk of force risks the aircraft decision that 1800 01:34:56.119 --> 01:34:59.119 leaders make. Do we put everybody on one aircraft and 1801 01:34:59.279 --> 01:35:03.840 only risk one aircraft to enemy fire and get the 1802 01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:06.000 force all in it once, or do we only put 1803 01:35:06.399 --> 01:35:10.079 half the element on one aircraft and the other half 1804 01:35:10.119 --> 01:35:12.560 on the other. And the problem with that, you know, 1805 01:35:12.720 --> 01:35:16.760 split force on multiple aircraft is that lead aircraft makes contact, 1806 01:35:17.079 --> 01:35:19.680 that second aircraft is not getting on the ground right, 1807 01:35:20.640 --> 01:35:22.840 and so then you only have half your force on 1808 01:35:22.920 --> 01:35:25.600 the ground. So, given the situation that they were going 1809 01:35:25.600 --> 01:35:27.720 in to pick a fight with you know, of anywhere 1810 01:35:27.880 --> 01:35:31.479 twelve plus fighters on that side, it made more sense 1811 01:35:31.520 --> 01:35:33.720 to just risk one aircraft and put everybody on the 1812 01:35:33.720 --> 01:35:36.199 ground all at once. And it's not a bad decision. 1813 01:35:36.279 --> 01:35:40.920 It's just you know, people ask me, well, why didn't 1814 01:35:40.920 --> 01:35:44.079 you do that? Then, well, I brought fifty five guys 1815 01:35:44.640 --> 01:35:46.880 to the fight that night, and we don't fit on 1816 01:35:46.880 --> 01:35:47.560 one aircraft. 1817 01:35:48.720 --> 01:35:51.560 Yeah. 1818 01:35:51.640 --> 01:35:56.239 So, you know, we finally get up there on the 1819 01:35:56.319 --> 01:35:59.520 crash and we start you know, saying calling for supplies 1820 01:35:59.560 --> 01:36:03.000 that we're gonna need, and you know, the backside support, 1821 01:36:03.159 --> 01:36:05.520 you know, from you know, guys in the rigger shop 1822 01:36:05.640 --> 01:36:08.800 to doing CDs drops because we're out of we're out 1823 01:36:08.840 --> 01:36:11.479 of water by this point. You know, there are supplies 1824 01:36:11.520 --> 01:36:14.319 that we just don't have. And the whole way up there, 1825 01:36:14.359 --> 01:36:18.239 I'm in my mind, I'm I'm flashing back to all 1826 01:36:18.479 --> 01:36:21.439 the stuff that we brought in the night we did 1827 01:36:21.479 --> 01:36:24.479 the you know, the turbine three three in the Marcus 1828 01:36:24.520 --> 01:36:27.359 the trail, you know that six years ago. All that's 1829 01:36:27.359 --> 01:36:30.000 floating back into my mind and I'm trying to think 1830 01:36:30.039 --> 01:36:31.880 of all the stuff that we had and all the 1831 01:36:31.880 --> 01:36:34.159 stuff that one Charlie had, and I'm trying to you know, 1832 01:36:34.920 --> 01:36:37.479 request this stuff because at this point in the game, 1833 01:36:37.760 --> 01:36:41.159 as far as you know, the g WYT, this is combat. 1834 01:36:41.159 --> 01:36:43.720 Struch and rescue is not something that we have time 1835 01:36:43.760 --> 01:36:46.920 to train on anymore. And it was something that you know, 1836 01:36:47.000 --> 01:36:48.960 back in the day when we assumed Ranger ready for 1837 01:36:49.039 --> 01:36:51.720 US one. It was one of those one day, two 1838 01:36:51.800 --> 01:36:54.880 day taskings that you know, we all trained, you know, 1839 01:36:55.520 --> 01:36:58.159 crash axes and smashing through and this is what we 1840 01:36:58.199 --> 01:37:01.560 do now. We get fan egress once a year when 1841 01:37:01.560 --> 01:37:05.640 we do rotor wing violets. You know, if the aircraft 1842 01:37:05.640 --> 01:37:08.479 has a hard landing, not destroyed, but it has hard landing. 1843 01:37:08.479 --> 01:37:10.199 You know, this is how we destroy the radios is 1844 01:37:10.239 --> 01:37:12.760 how you destroy you know, the airframe if need be, 1845 01:37:13.600 --> 01:37:15.239 you know, and so on and so on. But at 1846 01:37:15.239 --> 01:37:18.199 this point, it's like, okay, well I need I need 1847 01:37:18.239 --> 01:37:22.800 body bags, I need water, I need bio hazard, you know, 1848 01:37:23.039 --> 01:37:25.960 and if you can find them, I need Class D 1849 01:37:26.079 --> 01:37:31.039 fire extinguishers. And so I'm trying to get all this 1850 01:37:31.159 --> 01:37:34.479 information requested to the jock so that they can build 1851 01:37:34.479 --> 01:37:38.479 this weird CDs palette to hopefully help us, you know, 1852 01:37:39.279 --> 01:37:41.880 get everybody recovered, because by the time we got on 1853 01:37:41.960 --> 01:37:44.520 the crash site, you know, it was still a fireball. 1854 01:37:44.760 --> 01:37:49.079 It was still on fire for hours after and you know, 1855 01:37:51.359 --> 01:37:56.119 it was one of those learning points, I guess if 1856 01:37:56.159 --> 01:37:58.560 you will for the for the job that Hey, look, 1857 01:37:58.640 --> 01:38:00.560 you know this is the second time I'm in less 1858 01:38:00.560 --> 01:38:02.439 than ten years that we've had this happen. And we 1859 01:38:02.479 --> 01:38:05.199 don't have any classic fire extinguishers to put out a 1860 01:38:05.239 --> 01:38:09.720 middle fire, right, and helicopters have a lot of magnesium 1861 01:38:09.760 --> 01:38:14.479 in them, right, And so you know, we did correct that, 1862 01:38:14.880 --> 01:38:18.359 you know later on that that all this stuff did 1863 01:38:18.439 --> 01:38:21.239 make it into country, and thankfully that never had to 1864 01:38:21.239 --> 01:38:23.960 be used it again. But it was one of those well, 1865 01:38:24.000 --> 01:38:26.560 we probably should have some of this stuff at least 1866 01:38:26.840 --> 01:38:28.359 on standby. 1867 01:38:28.479 --> 01:38:34.039 And given given that you are already in a non 1868 01:38:34.119 --> 01:38:38.479 permissive environment, I imagine that you probably had a decent air 1869 01:38:38.520 --> 01:38:41.319 package you start with. But what happened at that point? 1870 01:38:41.319 --> 01:38:43.279 I mean, did they start pushing all the assets you 1871 01:38:43.319 --> 01:38:43.880 guys needed. 1872 01:38:45.239 --> 01:38:47.439 Yeah, so the air package, you know, we had a 1873 01:38:47.479 --> 01:38:50.000 patches on station, and then we had AC one thirty, 1874 01:38:50.039 --> 01:38:53.680 and then we had fast movers in the stack at altitude. 1875 01:38:54.119 --> 01:38:57.039 And so what happens is when this kind of situation 1876 01:38:57.119 --> 01:38:59.520 happens is everything in the country shuts down. Doesn't matter 1877 01:38:59.600 --> 01:39:02.920 where at in the country, it is. All operations are 1878 01:39:03.279 --> 01:39:05.359 ceasing assist. If you're not on target, you'd better be 1879 01:39:05.439 --> 01:39:08.760 calling for expill or you're walking home because you know 1880 01:39:08.920 --> 01:39:13.319 every ISR platform mann is unmanned, you know, fast movers, 1881 01:39:13.520 --> 01:39:16.079 rotor wing assets, they're all coming to wherever that crash 1882 01:39:16.159 --> 01:39:20.119 is at. And it was nuts the amount of support 1883 01:39:20.199 --> 01:39:24.000 that we had, you know. And then so the big 1884 01:39:24.119 --> 01:39:28.720 Armies Combat search and Rescue element, the pathfinders in the book, 1885 01:39:28.760 --> 01:39:31.680 they're not you know, pathfinder pathfinders. That was just our 1886 01:39:31.720 --> 01:39:37.720 call signs pathfinder. You know, those guys almost didn't make 1887 01:39:37.760 --> 01:39:43.279 it in because they were shutting everything down, and so 1888 01:39:43.399 --> 01:39:45.960 it was either going to already be there, which was us, 1889 01:39:46.079 --> 01:39:47.319 or it was going to have to come in on 1890 01:39:47.359 --> 01:39:54.199 a truck. So they made it in just moments, moments 1891 01:39:54.239 --> 01:39:57.840 before everything got shut down as far as rotor wing assets. 1892 01:39:57.880 --> 01:40:03.039 And the strange part is is that you know, transport 1893 01:40:03.079 --> 01:40:08.239 aircraft have flying pairs or triplets, and so Extortion one 1894 01:40:08.279 --> 01:40:11.520 six the other aircraft in the flight I had to 1895 01:40:11.520 --> 01:40:14.560 get special permission to fly back from the objective area 1896 01:40:14.880 --> 01:40:15.760 as a single ship. 1897 01:40:17.159 --> 01:40:17.359 Yeah. 1898 01:40:18.199 --> 01:40:22.079 I I'm actually misunderstood because I thought when you were 1899 01:40:22.119 --> 01:40:25.239 saying everything in the country got shot shut down, I 1900 01:40:25.319 --> 01:40:30.840 thought you meant because it was all pushed to you guys. 1901 01:40:31.079 --> 01:40:34.279 But why would they shut down the path fight or 1902 01:40:34.319 --> 01:40:37.199 the combat search and rescue efforts. 1903 01:40:37.640 --> 01:40:40.399 The rotary wing aircraft are getting shut down. It's not 1904 01:40:40.439 --> 01:40:43.520 the fixed wing aircraft or the IR platforms or any 1905 01:40:43.520 --> 01:40:47.039 of that stuff. It is the uh you know, uh, 1906 01:40:47.840 --> 01:40:51.920 the apaches are getting grounded. All all rotor wing air 1907 01:40:51.960 --> 01:40:54.560 assets are getting shut down at this point, you know, 1908 01:40:54.640 --> 01:40:56.840 And it's it's a timing issue of can we get 1909 01:40:56.840 --> 01:41:01.960 these in? And basically what it is is it's allocation 1910 01:41:02.000 --> 01:41:04.840 of assets. And we just had a helicopter shot down, 1911 01:41:04.880 --> 01:41:07.359 so we're not going to commit any more helicopters into 1912 01:41:07.640 --> 01:41:10.640 this area. And so what their whole thing was is 1913 01:41:10.680 --> 01:41:13.439 that they had to get on the ground after we 1914 01:41:13.520 --> 01:41:17.760 had containment of the area to provide a ground force 1915 01:41:18.239 --> 01:41:21.640 security element on their HLZ for them to be able 1916 01:41:21.680 --> 01:41:28.039 to come in. And so we had that just you know, 1917 01:41:28.239 --> 01:41:29.800 right before the sun came up. 1918 01:41:30.720 --> 01:41:33.399 So it almost, i mean, it almost sounds like they 1919 01:41:33.399 --> 01:41:35.399 get super risk adverse, like we have. 1920 01:41:35.359 --> 01:41:37.279 One helic very risk. 1921 01:41:37.800 --> 01:41:40.159 Yes we have that we have, and so we're not 1922 01:41:40.199 --> 01:41:43.479 going to risk another helicopter to get you guys assets 1923 01:41:43.520 --> 01:41:47.039 you need because we don't want to lose another helicopter. 1924 01:41:47.600 --> 01:41:49.880 Right And that's so then a lot of it becomes 1925 01:41:50.159 --> 01:41:52.640 like things that we were requesting that normally would come 1926 01:41:52.720 --> 01:41:54.479 in like on the back of a forty seven and 1927 01:41:54.560 --> 01:41:56.840 just get kicked out in a kit bag. Yeah, it 1928 01:41:56.880 --> 01:41:58.920 has to get put on a fixed wing aircraft, so 1929 01:41:59.000 --> 01:42:01.880 see what thirty and then has to get CDs drop 1930 01:42:01.920 --> 01:42:04.720 combat delivery system has to get dumped to us that 1931 01:42:04.760 --> 01:42:06.960 way so they can fly in you know a tens 1932 01:42:07.479 --> 01:42:11.000 as air support and and all that other kind of stuff, 1933 01:42:11.079 --> 01:42:14.079 and it just becomes a risk aversion to more ground fire, 1934 01:42:14.880 --> 01:42:16.199 so red ry wing assets. 1935 01:42:16.359 --> 01:42:17.720 So how did this unfold? 1936 01:42:17.760 --> 01:42:20.920 As as the sun came up and you're continuing with 1937 01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:22.520 this recovery mission. 1938 01:42:22.560 --> 01:42:24.479 Now that's what this has turned into. 1939 01:42:25.399 --> 01:42:30.439 Right, it's you know, so it is all this is 1940 01:42:30.479 --> 01:42:35.319 going on and uh, you know, we're trying to figure 1941 01:42:35.319 --> 01:42:37.760 out what you know it is there gonna be anybody 1942 01:42:37.800 --> 01:42:40.239 else that's coming in, and you know, so we're we're 1943 01:42:40.279 --> 01:42:42.439 securing the crash site in a you know, kind of 1944 01:42:42.479 --> 01:42:46.840 a football shaped perimeter as loose as we can and 1945 01:42:47.760 --> 01:42:51.359 uh to start working the recovery efforts of it. You know, 1946 01:42:51.399 --> 01:42:53.880 it's still dark and night vision is not working because 1947 01:42:53.880 --> 01:42:56.520 it's so bright with all the fire. It just becomes 1948 01:42:56.560 --> 01:43:00.600 this basically sent two fire teams out on the north 1949 01:43:00.680 --> 01:43:05.439 side of the the create that the Tangy River and 1950 01:43:05.439 --> 01:43:08.279 one on the south side. We just started doing concentric arcs, 1951 01:43:08.560 --> 01:43:14.079 you know, basically fire teams online just kind of calming 1952 01:43:14.159 --> 01:43:16.920 around this. And what we're looking for is anybody that 1953 01:43:17.119 --> 01:43:20.760 had been possibly ejected from the crash, you know, whether 1954 01:43:20.800 --> 01:43:25.600 they had survived or you know, hurt or whatnot. And 1955 01:43:27.159 --> 01:43:28.960 so that was the first thing is you know, how 1956 01:43:29.199 --> 01:43:31.279 how how much of this can we clear within reason, 1957 01:43:31.640 --> 01:43:33.159 you know, get out you know, one hundred and two 1958 01:43:33.199 --> 01:43:35.560 hundred meters and make sure that you know, when we 1959 01:43:35.600 --> 01:43:38.800 start pulling remains, we're not missing somebody because they got 1960 01:43:38.920 --> 01:43:44.199 pitched out of the back. So that's how we found 1961 01:43:44.199 --> 01:43:48.279 like the first sticks to eight guys were kind of 1962 01:43:49.239 --> 01:43:51.560 in this arc pattern that had been kind of thrown 1963 01:43:51.560 --> 01:43:55.880 out within you know, fifty meters, and then you know, 1964 01:43:55.920 --> 01:43:58.239 we got started getting the accountability and so then we 1965 01:43:58.239 --> 01:44:02.039 started finding chunks of the aircraft. The rotor assemblies, the 1966 01:44:02.039 --> 01:44:05.159 front and rear rotor assemblies, you know, are in these positions, 1967 01:44:05.199 --> 01:44:08.600 and we're kind of assuming that that's the farthest that 1968 01:44:08.720 --> 01:44:11.439 any of this wreckage is going to get as you know, 1969 01:44:11.479 --> 01:44:13.159 people aren't going to get that far, but you know, 1970 01:44:13.199 --> 01:44:16.279 the rotor blades are still spinning and and torqued out, 1971 01:44:16.439 --> 01:44:19.640 and they're going to you know, wobble off and you know, 1972 01:44:19.720 --> 01:44:22.840 end up in an orchard here, or get slammed into 1973 01:44:22.840 --> 01:44:27.800 a tree, you know, cluster of trees over here. And 1974 01:44:28.319 --> 01:44:31.600 so then it becomes you know, how can we work 1975 01:44:31.760 --> 01:44:36.279 this problem while it's still on fire? And so then 1976 01:44:36.319 --> 01:44:39.319 it becomes you know, how long can we sustain you know, 1977 01:44:39.359 --> 01:44:42.880 the exposure to the heat and things cooking off and exploding, 1978 01:44:43.000 --> 01:44:47.760 and you know the risk of force for us to 1979 01:44:47.800 --> 01:44:54.920 make this as fast as possible, and you know, it's 1980 01:44:55.000 --> 01:44:59.159 just kind of one of those the real moments if 1981 01:44:59.159 --> 01:45:01.119 he will, because he start you know, as the sun's 1982 01:45:01.159 --> 01:45:03.239 coming up, you're starting to see the look on everybody's 1983 01:45:03.279 --> 01:45:06.359 face of just you know, horror and disbelief that you know, 1984 01:45:06.399 --> 01:45:12.119 I can't believe this has happened, and you know, you 1985 01:45:12.239 --> 01:45:17.439 try not to expose everybody to that, so you're really 1986 01:45:17.479 --> 01:45:19.880 relying heavy on the guys that have a little bit 1987 01:45:19.920 --> 01:45:22.439 more seasoned under their belts and the squads that are 1988 01:45:22.640 --> 01:45:26.720 a little bit more mature, and you know, so I 1989 01:45:26.760 --> 01:45:29.239 was really relying real heavy on second squad at the 1990 01:45:29.279 --> 01:45:33.359 time too, you know, to work this and then as 1991 01:45:33.399 --> 01:45:36.800 they started to get gassed and just worn out, you know, 1992 01:45:38.039 --> 01:45:43.079 rotating one other squad in two take over until we 1993 01:45:43.960 --> 01:45:49.680 kind of got this all, you know, accounted for, right. 1994 01:45:51.640 --> 01:45:53.520 And I mean I don't, I don't, I don't want 1995 01:45:53.520 --> 01:45:56.760 to get like too graphic, but I mean they're actually 1996 01:45:56.760 --> 01:46:01.119 having to recover the remains of these seals and attachments. 1997 01:46:02.000 --> 01:46:06.720 Yeah, and we're picking them up out of the firing 1998 01:46:07.079 --> 01:46:08.640 you know, wreck and stuff. 1999 01:46:08.720 --> 01:46:11.800 So it's a pretty difficult. 2000 01:46:12.800 --> 01:46:16.159 Yeah. I mean, you know, if you were for the 2001 01:46:16.199 --> 01:46:18.439 guys that were there, you know, we we had talked 2002 01:46:18.439 --> 01:46:20.479 about it later. It's like, you know, Hollywood couldn't have 2003 01:46:20.479 --> 01:46:25.640 written anything more graphic for people that you know, want 2004 01:46:25.640 --> 01:46:29.079 to imagine what this is like. I mean, you couldn't 2005 01:46:29.119 --> 01:46:34.880 have written a script like this any any more graphic 2006 01:46:34.920 --> 01:46:36.840 than what it actually turned out to be. As far 2007 01:46:36.840 --> 01:46:41.399 as the way movies are made now, it's crazy. And 2008 01:46:41.560 --> 01:46:46.279 you know, and I give the credit to the boys 2009 01:46:46.279 --> 01:46:50.079 because they you know, they handled a lot that night, 2010 01:46:50.159 --> 01:46:52.439 and you know, for some of them, you know, it's 2011 01:46:52.439 --> 01:46:56.680 their first deployment and you know they're seeing the worst 2012 01:46:56.720 --> 01:47:01.920 that can happen, and so you know it's trying trying 2013 01:47:01.920 --> 01:47:08.920 to make sure that everything was okay, right right, and 2014 01:47:09.079 --> 01:47:13.399 so you know, we I think it was probably about 2015 01:47:13.439 --> 01:47:16.079 four four and a half five hours and we had 2016 01:47:16.119 --> 01:47:21.399 everybody you know, pulled out and accounted for, and you 2017 01:47:21.439 --> 01:47:24.319 know it wasn't there wasn't a lot of some people left. 2018 01:47:25.359 --> 01:47:27.520 So because that was one of the questions you know, 2019 01:47:27.680 --> 01:47:31.319 later when talking with the jock and and things after 2020 01:47:31.399 --> 01:47:33.159 it was all said and done, you know, there was 2021 01:47:33.800 --> 01:47:37.359 you know, questions, questions over you know, how did you 2022 01:47:37.359 --> 01:47:41.920 get accountability because you know through the investigation. I mean 2023 01:47:41.960 --> 01:47:45.079 there was investigations that went on. This thing went on 2024 01:47:45.199 --> 01:47:50.399 for weeks of you know, there's everybody wants all these answers, 2025 01:47:50.439 --> 01:47:52.600 and so then you know, one of the questions comes 2026 01:47:52.680 --> 01:47:55.159 is like how did you you know, come up with 2027 01:47:55.239 --> 01:47:59.079 that you had accountability of all of these people? You know, 2028 01:47:59.439 --> 01:48:03.000 and it wasn't prefaced. The statement wasn't prefaced correctly because 2029 01:48:03.000 --> 01:48:07.640 they're getting information from like mortuary affairs that says, you know, 2030 01:48:08.680 --> 01:48:11.079 you can't count it as a human unless you have 2031 01:48:11.119 --> 01:48:14.079 fifty one percent of the remains, and some of these 2032 01:48:14.119 --> 01:48:18.600 guys are you know, not to be graphic there's you know, 2033 01:48:18.960 --> 01:48:21.119 c spines and skulls. 2034 01:48:20.680 --> 01:48:22.720 Right, yeah, and you did the best that was you 2035 01:48:22.720 --> 01:48:26.720 did the best you possibly could under combat conditions, right. 2036 01:48:27.159 --> 01:48:32.239 Right, And so you know, we go, you know, we 2037 01:48:32.279 --> 01:48:35.439 go up for the ramp ceremony, and so anybody who's 2038 01:48:35.479 --> 01:48:37.319 spent any time in the range of regiment, you know, 2039 01:48:37.399 --> 01:48:41.279 personnel and accountability of people and equipment. That is the 2040 01:48:41.359 --> 01:48:44.720 senior n CEO's bread and butter. That's his baby. And 2041 01:48:44.800 --> 01:48:47.560 so I just remember going into the jock and you know, 2042 01:48:47.920 --> 01:48:49.960 we're up there for the ramp ceremony. I'm kind of 2043 01:48:50.000 --> 01:48:53.760 talking with the you know, the regimental staff and officers, 2044 01:48:53.800 --> 01:48:56.479 and you know, bumped into somebody that I you know, 2045 01:48:56.560 --> 01:48:59.479 knew and I respected, and he goes, you know, hey, 2046 01:48:59.760 --> 01:49:02.159 you really good under the circumstances. And I said, so, 2047 01:49:02.279 --> 01:49:04.079 I got a bone to pick, and I don't care 2048 01:49:04.119 --> 01:49:06.920 if it gets me fired. You know, it was one 2049 01:49:06.960 --> 01:49:11.119 of those, uh, since winning the Ranger Regiment is personnel, 2050 01:49:11.119 --> 01:49:14.920 accountability of man, weapons and equipment, not the NCO's job. 2051 01:49:14.960 --> 01:49:17.239 And when you grill my opportunit leader over something that 2052 01:49:17.279 --> 01:49:20.840 he's not involved in, I have a big problem with that. 2053 01:49:21.399 --> 01:49:27.600 And so you know, I'm being polite about it, you know. Uh, 2054 01:49:29.399 --> 01:49:35.000 but uh, it was one of those those things where 2055 01:49:35.119 --> 01:49:37.840 you know, it's like, you know, we we did the 2056 01:49:37.880 --> 01:49:39.920 best we could under the circumstances. And you know, I 2057 01:49:39.920 --> 01:49:43.079 wouldn't have given you a false report in the circumstances 2058 01:49:43.079 --> 01:49:45.319 if I wasn't sure that we had everybody right. 2059 01:49:45.680 --> 01:49:46.560 And so you're. 2060 01:49:48.079 --> 01:49:50.840 Your p always taking heat like they were trying, like 2061 01:49:51.039 --> 01:49:52.560 your p always taking Yeah, there. 2062 01:49:52.479 --> 01:49:56.000 Was a there was a a vtc SO video teleconference 2063 01:49:56.319 --> 01:49:59.239 like a few days later, and he was being grilled 2064 01:49:59.279 --> 01:50:02.960 over you know, accountability and how did we get these numbers, 2065 01:50:02.960 --> 01:50:08.760 But they never prefaced where they're getting their questionable you know, 2066 01:50:09.399 --> 01:50:12.640 right numbers from, or or how we could say we 2067 01:50:12.680 --> 01:50:16.359 had accountability and and so uh, you know that came 2068 01:50:16.399 --> 01:50:18.920 to light and I just I, you know, I was 2069 01:50:18.960 --> 01:50:20.920 still short feused from the whole thing, and I just 2070 01:50:21.079 --> 01:50:23.239 was like, well, I don't care. 2071 01:50:23.960 --> 01:50:25.279 Not, I get it. 2072 01:50:25.319 --> 01:50:28.239 You're you're the platoon sergeant and the buck stops with you, 2073 01:50:28.319 --> 01:50:31.960 and you've said that, you know, I understand. 2074 01:50:32.079 --> 01:50:34.199 Well, no, I mean what was fun is that you know, 2075 01:50:34.640 --> 01:50:37.279 I excused myself from the big jock, and you know, 2076 01:50:37.279 --> 01:50:39.359 we went over to the ramp to stand by for 2077 01:50:39.439 --> 01:50:42.279 the ceremony, and somebody came over and they actually apologized 2078 01:50:42.279 --> 01:50:46.880 to michaeltoon leader or you know that grilling if you will, 2079 01:50:47.039 --> 01:50:50.159 and I was I actually thought that, you know, the 2080 01:50:50.159 --> 01:50:52.800 the fabled Bleckshook was going to come in and carry 2081 01:50:52.840 --> 01:50:54.000 them off and I was going to be without a 2082 01:50:54.119 --> 01:50:57.800 tune leader. But it didn't happen, and uh, you know 2083 01:50:57.880 --> 01:51:00.960 it's I felt, you know, justify after that that you know, 2084 01:51:01.479 --> 01:51:03.680 he got raked over the coals for something that wasn't 2085 01:51:03.720 --> 01:51:06.600 in his lane, right, and you know I got him 2086 01:51:06.600 --> 01:51:11.640 in apology and so then everything was straight. Not not 2087 01:51:11.640 --> 01:51:16.119 trying to brag on this situation, but you know it's 2088 01:51:16.399 --> 01:51:17.439 you guys, because. 2089 01:51:17.199 --> 01:51:23.840 Also that they are using an administrative standard for you know, yes, 2090 01:51:24.279 --> 01:51:27.159 you know this right, this is this is a sailor, 2091 01:51:27.399 --> 01:51:31.079 but it's not enough of a sailor to be counted 2092 01:51:32.039 --> 01:51:35.720 like yeah, exactly, yeah, you know, like. 2093 01:51:35.680 --> 01:51:39.880 I said, you know, we you can't nobody can have 2094 01:51:39.920 --> 01:51:41.439 more than one school and one c spine. 2095 01:51:41.720 --> 01:51:46.800 Yeah, yeah, now I I did did the. 2096 01:51:48.359 --> 01:51:50.760 Did the army or did the military. 2097 01:51:51.840 --> 01:51:56.039 Take steps to make sure that that your guys were 2098 01:51:56.119 --> 01:51:59.159 okay after that? Because that especially if you think about 2099 01:51:59.199 --> 01:52:05.039 some yeah, his first deployment, so sorry. 2100 01:52:06.439 --> 01:52:08.880 We had you know, throughout the rest of the deployment, 2101 01:52:08.920 --> 01:52:12.920 we had you know, the the psychologists and the chaplains, 2102 01:52:12.960 --> 01:52:14.680 you know, they were always coming in and checking on 2103 01:52:14.720 --> 01:52:17.680 the guys, and you know, as leaders, you know, we 2104 01:52:17.680 --> 01:52:21.239 were constantly asking if they were you know, doing okay, 2105 01:52:21.359 --> 01:52:23.800 and you know, if everybody was still having issues from 2106 01:52:23.840 --> 01:52:28.640 the floor. But the hardest challenge as a leader was 2107 01:52:28.680 --> 01:52:32.159 to you know, look, look the boys in the face 2108 01:52:32.199 --> 01:52:34.680 when it was all done and everything got cleared to 2109 01:52:35.239 --> 01:52:38.119 operate again. Is to you know, tell them, hey, we're 2110 01:52:38.119 --> 01:52:40.720 going out and we're going to load back on these 2111 01:52:40.720 --> 01:52:43.279 aircraft and we're just going to keep doing business. And 2112 01:52:43.359 --> 01:52:45.560 you know, to see the look in some of their faces, 2113 01:52:45.560 --> 01:52:50.920 it's just, you know, there's timidness in their eyes that 2114 01:52:51.039 --> 01:52:54.119 you can see is because they've seen the worst that 2115 01:52:54.239 --> 01:52:57.319 could happen, and you know, ask them to step back 2116 01:52:57.359 --> 01:53:01.159 on those airframes and to you know assume that risk. 2117 01:53:01.399 --> 01:53:05.279 You know, that was the hardest, you know, and then 2118 01:53:05.760 --> 01:53:08.680 it got easier for them, you know, as we kind 2119 01:53:08.680 --> 01:53:10.720 of settled back in. But you know, then we started 2120 01:53:13.439 --> 01:53:15.960 and we went back in the Tangy like six weeks later, 2121 01:53:16.159 --> 01:53:19.159 and we lost one of our guys, Tyler Holtz, was killed, 2122 01:53:20.479 --> 01:53:26.840 had one other guy Specialists was wounded, you know, all 2123 01:53:26.880 --> 01:53:30.439 in the same area of you know, where that crash 2124 01:53:30.479 --> 01:53:33.840 had happened, within about four hundred meters five hundred meters 2125 01:53:33.840 --> 01:53:36.640 of the crash site itself. Because what we had done 2126 01:53:36.760 --> 01:53:39.600 was we had gone back through all the video and 2127 01:53:39.800 --> 01:53:43.159 the ISR and you know, figured out where that those 2128 01:53:43.239 --> 01:53:45.600 rocks were fired from, and so that became a target 2129 01:53:45.640 --> 01:53:50.039 in itself, a very deliberate target. And you know, we'd 2130 01:53:50.039 --> 01:53:52.279 brought the rest of Bravo Company up and did a 2131 01:53:52.319 --> 01:53:54.479 big company off in there, and you know, we'd put 2132 01:53:54.479 --> 01:53:56.760 one hundred and fifty rangers on the ground, and you know, 2133 01:53:56.800 --> 01:53:59.880 we were just basically what it was was to just say, hey, look, 2134 01:54:00.039 --> 01:54:01.840 you may have shot an aircraft down, but we're not 2135 01:54:01.880 --> 01:54:04.920 afraid to come in here. And you know, then you know, 2136 01:54:05.039 --> 01:54:08.920 unfortunately we have a team leader that's killed, another guy 2137 01:54:08.960 --> 01:54:13.840 that's you know, severely wounded, and you know, so it 2138 01:54:14.000 --> 01:54:18.000 just kind of this big, big downer for that and 2139 01:54:18.119 --> 01:54:24.520 uh and then you know, and then I get hurt 2140 01:54:24.560 --> 01:54:27.520 a few weeks later, and so it's just kind of 2141 01:54:27.520 --> 01:54:31.159 where just one brather just continues to just take a meeting, 2142 01:54:31.680 --> 01:54:36.520 either physically or emotionally or mentally. And it was a 2143 01:54:36.680 --> 01:54:38.560 it was a rough trip. I always you know, guys 2144 01:54:38.600 --> 01:54:40.239 always asking you know, what was that one? Like I 2145 01:54:40.279 --> 01:54:42.479 was like, well, at that point in time, you know, 2146 01:54:42.600 --> 01:54:45.079 one Bravo had been in more gunfights that deployment than 2147 01:54:45.079 --> 01:54:48.359 the rest of the Talian together all the other platoons. 2148 01:54:48.720 --> 01:54:51.600 We had been in more gunfights on that trip, and 2149 01:54:51.840 --> 01:54:54.600 guys were just spent. 2150 01:54:54.920 --> 01:54:59.319 Yeahs before we get into the operation that led to 2151 01:54:59.680 --> 01:55:02.880 your injury. I I wanted to ask you because it's 2152 01:55:02.920 --> 01:55:05.439 something we've talked about on the show before, and as 2153 01:55:05.479 --> 01:55:08.640 a senior in CEO, you know, you mentioned the one 2154 01:55:08.680 --> 01:55:12.840 side of how the guys responded to the extortion one seven, 2155 01:55:13.359 --> 01:55:18.039 the timidity or the tim midnus, how is it? 2156 01:55:18.119 --> 01:55:20.840 How is an n c O. Did you have to. 2157 01:55:20.760 --> 01:55:23.720 Deal with the other side of that too, of reigning 2158 01:55:23.800 --> 01:55:27.079 in the guys that wanted to get some that wanted 2159 01:55:27.119 --> 01:55:32.199 payback and and would look and and that was a 2160 01:55:32.239 --> 01:55:34.840 broad definition of a payback. 2161 01:55:35.720 --> 01:55:37.439 Sure, I know what you're I know what you're getting at, 2162 01:55:37.439 --> 01:55:39.600 and it's to say, hey, look, you know we're going 2163 01:55:39.640 --> 01:55:42.399 back in here, but we're still going to be as 2164 01:55:42.479 --> 01:55:46.319 professional as we possibly can, and there will be no shenanigans. 2165 01:55:46.439 --> 01:55:49.199 You know it is to beat that into them, is like, 2166 01:55:49.279 --> 01:55:52.479 no matter what you feel, no matter what happened with 2167 01:55:52.520 --> 01:55:56.159 those guys, We're not going to get shut down operationally 2168 01:55:56.399 --> 01:55:59.359 because somebody wants to do something stupid as payback. We're 2169 01:55:59.399 --> 01:56:01.319 gonna it and we're going to give it to them 2170 01:56:01.359 --> 01:56:03.039 in the right way, and we're going to do it 2171 01:56:03.119 --> 01:56:07.079 our way, you know, within the rules of engagement, and 2172 01:56:07.640 --> 01:56:12.000 you know, and that's going to be it. There's there's 2173 01:56:12.039 --> 01:56:13.520 not gonna be any shenanigans. 2174 01:56:14.399 --> 01:56:17.239 Were there during your time in the Rangers? 2175 01:56:18.000 --> 01:56:23.159 Were there like leadership challenges and if in that in 2176 01:56:23.159 --> 01:56:25.840 that sense, and if so, how were they dealt with? 2177 01:56:28.199 --> 01:56:31.880 Not really, I'm I know what you're getting at. And 2178 01:56:31.960 --> 01:56:36.079 you know, if as the Ranger regimen or even just 2179 01:56:36.119 --> 01:56:40.520 the battalion as a whole, you know, the kind of 2180 01:56:40.640 --> 01:56:43.199 when you look back at the way things were when 2181 01:56:43.239 --> 01:56:45.159 when everything started in two thousand and one, you know, 2182 01:56:45.199 --> 01:56:48.159 we started kind of as a special operations support. You know, 2183 01:56:48.239 --> 01:56:53.479 we're there to you know, provide security and blocking positions 2184 01:56:53.600 --> 01:56:56.199 and things for you know, Delta Force and Team six 2185 01:56:56.680 --> 01:57:02.319 and you know, to get to the point where we're 2186 01:57:02.359 --> 01:57:04.640 now we're running a gun and on the same target 2187 01:57:04.680 --> 01:57:08.119 decks and you know, the same targeting lines, and we've 2188 01:57:08.159 --> 01:57:14.159 earned our right to be in this point. Most of 2189 01:57:14.199 --> 01:57:16.319 the guys at this point as part of the squad 2190 01:57:16.399 --> 01:57:18.399 leaders and and you know, even some of the senior 2191 01:57:18.439 --> 01:57:21.600 team leaders, but you know, team starters, we know what 2192 01:57:21.640 --> 01:57:25.520 it's like to be the guy on the outside looking in, 2193 01:57:25.760 --> 01:57:29.319 and now we're on the inside right there. There was 2194 01:57:29.399 --> 01:57:33.279 no way that anybody was gonna risk, you know, ruining 2195 01:57:33.319 --> 01:57:36.199 that reputation that we had for anything. 2196 01:57:37.039 --> 01:57:44.800 And so now that's it's it's really interesting because sounds 2197 01:57:44.800 --> 01:57:50.479 it sounds like it really was a amount of responsible 2198 01:57:50.560 --> 01:57:55.239 leadership in the sense of, yeah, you know, setting the 2199 01:57:55.319 --> 01:57:58.319 tone and making sure that that making certain that that 2200 01:57:58.439 --> 01:57:59.840 tone is stuck to. 2201 01:58:00.960 --> 01:58:02.960 Right, you know, and you know a lot of that, 2202 01:58:03.159 --> 01:58:06.199 you know, it comes down to the to the people 2203 01:58:06.239 --> 01:58:10.520 that you know, we pick as ntos to continue to 2204 01:58:10.720 --> 01:58:13.279 lead inside the regiment. It's not you know, it's not 2205 01:58:13.439 --> 01:58:16.399 just me. You know, it's all the other eleven ten 2206 01:58:16.600 --> 01:58:18.880 sergeants that were there at the time, and you know, 2207 01:58:18.920 --> 01:58:20.960 it's all the squal leaders that we say, hey, this 2208 01:58:21.039 --> 01:58:23.119 guy has what it takes to be that squal leader. 2209 01:58:23.159 --> 01:58:28.079 It's that guy that has that personal integrity to you know, 2210 01:58:28.159 --> 01:58:33.039 continue to push push the you know what we're doing 2211 01:58:33.239 --> 01:58:38.920 in the right direction. It's not to compromise our integrity 2212 01:58:39.319 --> 01:58:43.840 or or any of that stuff, because you know, when 2213 01:58:43.880 --> 01:58:46.279 those kind of things start happening and you start getting 2214 01:58:46.359 --> 01:58:52.239 questionable uh cera answers on target, you know, then then 2215 01:58:52.359 --> 01:58:56.119 your freedom of maneuver and freedom of movement and and 2216 01:58:56.279 --> 01:58:58.399 you know what you do, it starts getting you know, 2217 01:58:58.520 --> 01:59:01.359 put under the microscope. And so nobody wants to be 2218 01:59:01.439 --> 01:59:05.439 under the microscope. And so you know, I give it 2219 01:59:05.479 --> 01:59:08.039 to the guys that that took over after I got hurt, 2220 01:59:08.119 --> 01:59:10.840 and you know, the guys that are even still doing 2221 01:59:10.840 --> 01:59:13.520 it today. You know, it's it is carrying on that 2222 01:59:13.600 --> 01:59:17.159 legacy of what we started twenty years ago and still 2223 01:59:17.199 --> 01:59:21.720 continue to develop you know where it's going in the future. 2224 01:59:21.880 --> 01:59:26.840 And you know, it's awesome to be, you know, a 2225 01:59:26.840 --> 01:59:29.039 part of that history. You know, because I look at 2226 01:59:29.079 --> 01:59:32.960 what the Ranger Regiment is now and back to what 2227 01:59:33.000 --> 01:59:34.880 it was when when you were there, and you know, 2228 01:59:34.920 --> 01:59:38.119 when I was a young private and you know, it 2229 01:59:38.199 --> 01:59:42.000 is hands down a completely different organization and you know, 2230 01:59:42.039 --> 01:59:45.119 we can do all that old stuff, but we are 2231 01:59:45.399 --> 01:59:50.399 so much better at fitting into the operational roles that 2232 01:59:50.479 --> 01:59:51.359 we have now. 2233 01:59:51.640 --> 01:59:51.960 Yeah. 2234 01:59:53.079 --> 01:59:56.920 Yeah, So we'll just talk about the incident where you 2235 01:59:56.960 --> 02:00:00.520 were wounded, and then we'll take some viewer questions and yeah, yeah, 2236 02:00:01.439 --> 02:00:06.000 so can you tell us about Yeah, the operation, which. 2237 02:00:06.079 --> 02:00:08.159 Presumably a Purple Heart is in the works here. 2238 02:00:08.640 --> 02:00:16.239 So yeah, so it is October six seven, twenty eleven. 2239 02:00:16.640 --> 02:00:20.159 We're taking a swing at an ied and weapons facilitator. 2240 02:00:20.199 --> 02:00:22.960 It's mid level target, you know, kind of the middle 2241 02:00:22.960 --> 02:00:25.199 of the deck. It gets you the guys above and 2242 02:00:25.239 --> 02:00:28.319 the guys below, which the guys below are you know, 2243 02:00:28.399 --> 02:00:31.000 the targets in the pyramid that you know, the bus 2244 02:00:31.319 --> 02:00:34.560 battlespace owners are dealing with. And so when you slice 2245 02:00:34.560 --> 02:00:37.680 out the middle, you can work the targeting from both sides. 2246 02:00:37.680 --> 02:00:39.840 You can get the guys who are providing stuff from 2247 02:00:39.960 --> 02:00:43.239 across the border, and then it gives you the ability 2248 02:00:43.319 --> 02:00:46.159 to pass on to the battle space owner who's putting 2249 02:00:46.159 --> 02:00:47.920 this stuff in the roads that's trying to blow their 2250 02:00:47.960 --> 02:00:49.840 trucks up. So, you know, that's kind of where we're 2251 02:00:50.399 --> 02:00:53.239 swinging across the food pyramid. If he is right in 2252 02:00:53.279 --> 02:01:00.279 the middle and so we're in Baraki Barack, or well, 2253 02:01:01.199 --> 02:01:04.920 Brocky Barock was the little the town. But we're in 2254 02:01:07.000 --> 02:01:09.760 Logar Province, kind of on the east side of the 2255 02:01:10.880 --> 02:01:19.560 Tangy Valley. And the target grids dropped in a little 2256 02:01:19.640 --> 02:01:22.239 cluster of four buildings that all shared walls. So it's 2257 02:01:22.239 --> 02:01:26.760 like a plus symbol, and you know, you get twenty 2258 02:01:26.760 --> 02:01:30.439 five chance of taking the swing right the first time. 2259 02:01:30.479 --> 02:01:33.399 And so we swung wrong, and so we were reset 2260 02:01:33.399 --> 02:01:39.000 all the pieces to move and strike the next compound. 2261 02:01:39.079 --> 02:01:43.079 And as we're resetting all the pieces, you know, I 2262 02:01:43.119 --> 02:01:45.920 made a stupid decision that I had preached a thousand 2263 02:01:45.920 --> 02:01:48.319 times before, and shoot houses, don't ever put your body 2264 02:01:48.359 --> 02:01:54.399 in front of an open doorway, and I had just instinctually, 2265 02:01:54.520 --> 02:01:57.479 I just stupidly put my leg across this doorway. And 2266 02:01:57.520 --> 02:02:00.000 as soon as I did it to hold the door 2267 02:02:00.079 --> 02:02:03.840 were open. I took a three round verse. Took first 2268 02:02:03.920 --> 02:02:06.399 round to the right thigh, and I took one as 2269 02:02:06.439 --> 02:02:08.159 I was getting spun out of the way. I took 2270 02:02:08.199 --> 02:02:11.159 one through the right arm pit and entered in my 2271 02:02:11.279 --> 02:02:14.319 armpit and exited out my bicep, and then I took 2272 02:02:14.359 --> 02:02:17.359 the last one through the through my helmet. 2273 02:02:19.159 --> 02:02:19.960 Through the helmet. 2274 02:02:21.399 --> 02:02:24.399 Well, I mean it split the helmet, like the kevlar 2275 02:02:26.520 --> 02:02:30.039 opened up, so it hit right temple right here, and 2276 02:02:30.079 --> 02:02:33.520 then it blew my nods off my mouth. It came 2277 02:02:33.520 --> 02:02:34.920 out right right on the top. 2278 02:02:35.319 --> 02:02:37.359 I'm looking at the picture in your book. I mean, 2279 02:02:38.119 --> 02:02:39.159 that's that's. 2280 02:02:39.239 --> 02:02:39.760 From your leg. 2281 02:02:40.000 --> 02:02:40.760 Yeah, that's bad. 2282 02:02:41.600 --> 02:02:45.079 Yeah. So you know, dual TB, dual tube night vision. 2283 02:02:45.680 --> 02:02:48.600 You know when I when I got everything, when I 2284 02:02:48.600 --> 02:02:51.520 hooked it back on and and went to flip it down, 2285 02:02:51.560 --> 02:02:57.640 everything was offset and uh so I always people go, 2286 02:02:57.720 --> 02:02:59.119 what does that feel like? I was like, well, I 2287 02:02:59.159 --> 02:03:01.279 know what a baseball feels like when somebody hits a 2288 02:03:01.319 --> 02:03:01.760 home run. 2289 02:03:02.159 --> 02:03:07.960 Yeah, I mean, and honestly, all those I mean all 2290 02:03:08.000 --> 02:03:09.680 three of those areas you're like, you know, with the 2291 02:03:09.680 --> 02:03:12.600 femoral and everything down there and then right and then 2292 02:03:12.800 --> 02:03:16.439 your arm pit like around going in them is one 2293 02:03:16.439 --> 02:03:17.119 of the worst things. 2294 02:03:17.199 --> 02:03:19.119 Yeah, is one of the worst things. 2295 02:03:19.640 --> 02:03:23.560 Uh Right. So when I finally, you know, after it 2296 02:03:23.600 --> 02:03:25.199 was all said and done and I got you know, 2297 02:03:25.279 --> 02:03:27.520 I finally made it to Germany and I was talking, 2298 02:03:27.560 --> 02:03:28.880 you know, had a chance to kind of talk with 2299 02:03:29.079 --> 02:03:32.079 one of the surgeons who happened to be one of 2300 02:03:32.119 --> 02:03:36.159 the old battalion surgeons. Uh. And you know, he came 2301 02:03:36.199 --> 02:03:37.960 in and he was kind of joking with me. I 2302 02:03:37.960 --> 02:03:40.520 heard about this cranky old ranger n c O who's 2303 02:03:40.560 --> 02:03:42.680 down here, just you know, he's just given me a 2304 02:03:42.680 --> 02:03:46.840 hard time. And so uh, I was like, you know, 2305 02:03:46.920 --> 02:03:48.800 I was asking questions. I said, I know I got 2306 02:03:48.840 --> 02:03:51.479 shot through here, but you know what were the you know, 2307 02:03:51.560 --> 02:03:53.359 how how how lucky am I? 2308 02:03:53.479 --> 02:03:54.479 Or how yeah right was it? 2309 02:03:54.560 --> 02:03:56.880 And he goes, well, you have the the you know, 2310 02:03:56.920 --> 02:03:59.680 the Federal artery and the Federal nerve. They they run 2311 02:04:00.119 --> 02:04:02.479 parallel to each other down the inside of your thigh. 2312 02:04:02.640 --> 02:04:06.000 And he said that round went right between both of them. 2313 02:04:06.359 --> 02:04:10.399 God oh. 2314 02:04:10.479 --> 02:04:16.760 And I was like, well, okay. 2315 02:04:15.479 --> 02:04:17.439 And all those ops and this was the one that 2316 02:04:17.479 --> 02:04:17.760 got you. 2317 02:04:19.199 --> 02:04:22.800 Yeah, all that and this was the my stupid mistake. 2318 02:04:23.159 --> 02:04:27.840 And uh so you know that being said, that night, 2319 02:04:27.880 --> 02:04:31.000 that gunfight went on for uh. You know, they brought 2320 02:04:31.039 --> 02:04:33.239 in the q r F two. Bravo came in to 2321 02:04:33.319 --> 02:04:37.880 back up first pretendent because we had I was wounded 2322 02:04:38.760 --> 02:04:47.239 urgent surgical uh specialist Sara's was expectant and uh then 2323 02:04:47.279 --> 02:04:50.479 we had an Afghan partner who was expectant he had 2324 02:04:50.600 --> 02:04:55.000 taken around to the face, and uh, you know, we 2325 02:04:55.039 --> 02:04:59.239 had two other guys that were wounded severely, but they 2326 02:04:59.239 --> 02:05:01.880 didn't say anything about it because they were still able 2327 02:05:01.920 --> 02:05:07.640 to conduct op some uh. And then we had twelve 2328 02:05:07.640 --> 02:05:11.840 other guys that had received fragmentation because I got shot 2329 02:05:11.880 --> 02:05:14.159 and then you know, there was an exchange of gunfire 2330 02:05:14.199 --> 02:05:16.000 and then the enemy threw a hand grenade out in 2331 02:05:16.079 --> 02:05:18.399 this little alley and so then it went off, and 2332 02:05:18.760 --> 02:05:20.439 you know, I got a whole bunch of fragmentation in 2333 02:05:20.479 --> 02:05:23.159 the back of my you know, hamstrings from it, and 2334 02:05:23.159 --> 02:05:24.920 then a bunch of other guys caught frag off it. 2335 02:05:24.960 --> 02:05:28.239 But that that objective alone that night, we gave out 2336 02:05:28.239 --> 02:05:32.000 fourteen purple hearts. Wow. Wow. 2337 02:05:32.640 --> 02:05:35.000 So even after you got shot, you kept getting like 2338 02:05:35.039 --> 02:05:36.199 they just wouldn't leave you alone. 2339 02:05:36.279 --> 02:05:40.039 You kept thinking, you were like frying, You're like, I'm out, 2340 02:05:40.239 --> 02:05:41.039 was like I got. 2341 02:05:40.920 --> 02:05:44.000 Shot and then yeah, you know it's like time out. 2342 02:05:44.079 --> 02:05:46.239 No, yeah, right right, I'm already out. 2343 02:05:46.319 --> 02:05:49.439 Guys. Everybody goes, everybody goes. You know, did you have 2344 02:05:49.560 --> 02:05:53.279 this uh you know, surreal moment where it's like time 2345 02:05:53.359 --> 02:05:56.560 slowed down? Yeah, because what I perceived in my mind 2346 02:05:56.600 --> 02:05:59.399 as being you know, just a minute or two is 2347 02:05:59.520 --> 02:06:03.279 turned out. You know, it's probably about six or seven minutes, 2348 02:06:03.840 --> 02:06:07.119 because you know, my bell's wrung. Yeah, the lights got 2349 02:06:07.159 --> 02:06:10.279 real dim in the tunnel, if you will, and uh, 2350 02:06:10.399 --> 02:06:12.039 I'm in my mind. You know, we do all this 2351 02:06:12.159 --> 02:06:15.039 casually played during training, but when it actually happens, you've 2352 02:06:15.039 --> 02:06:19.119 got it. It's a conscious thought effort to go, Okay, 2353 02:06:19.600 --> 02:06:22.560 I have to put a tourniquet on. You're like, I 2354 02:06:22.640 --> 02:06:27.760 know where they are, but can I reach it? Can 2355 02:06:27.800 --> 02:06:29.560 I get to it? Because I'm kind of laid over 2356 02:06:29.680 --> 02:06:31.720 on it. It's like, well, I can't really move. And 2357 02:06:32.000 --> 02:06:35.079 I knew my femur hadn't been broken because I stupidly stepped, 2358 02:06:35.119 --> 02:06:36.680 you know, I put pressure down on my leg when 2359 02:06:36.680 --> 02:06:39.920 I lost my balance after I got shot in the head. 2360 02:06:40.439 --> 02:06:42.239 So I was like, okay, good. You know, in my mind, 2361 02:06:42.279 --> 02:06:46.680 I'm like, my fever's not broken. And uh so then 2362 02:06:46.720 --> 02:06:48.520 I'm like, okay, I've got a tournique in my mid 2363 02:06:48.600 --> 02:06:50.720 pouch and then I also have one down on my 2364 02:06:50.800 --> 02:06:52.600 left calf. But I've got all this crap and I'm 2365 02:06:52.640 --> 02:06:55.279 kind of in this weird position. Can I even reach it? Yeah, 2366 02:06:55.279 --> 02:06:57.119 you know, because I've got a I've got a team 2367 02:06:57.199 --> 02:06:59.920 leader and two other guys who are straddling over top 2368 02:07:00.119 --> 02:07:02.319 me trying to get guns through this doorway, and they're 2369 02:07:02.439 --> 02:07:05.399 you know, in the in the fight, and I'm not 2370 02:07:05.439 --> 02:07:08.039 in the fight anymore. And I'm trying to like reach 2371 02:07:08.159 --> 02:07:10.840 between their legs and my legs and grab this turn 2372 02:07:10.920 --> 02:07:12.680 quit and put it on. And then you know, that 2373 02:07:12.960 --> 02:07:16.399 just sucks. And then you're like, okay, but I still 2374 02:07:16.439 --> 02:07:19.159 have to crank this thing down and you know, get 2375 02:07:19.199 --> 02:07:22.319 it as tight as I can get it. And then 2376 02:07:22.359 --> 02:07:24.319 there's a lull and then you know, I know that 2377 02:07:24.840 --> 02:07:29.560 Cress is hurt, you know, so I know I can 2378 02:07:29.600 --> 02:07:33.840 get I can probably walk, and so you know, I 2379 02:07:33.880 --> 02:07:37.239 get help stood up, and then I try to get 2380 02:07:37.239 --> 02:07:39.880 myself out of the way, you know, as best I can, 2381 02:07:39.960 --> 02:07:43.239 and so I start walking, uh back down the alley 2382 02:07:43.239 --> 02:07:46.800 way to where we're gonna have the CCP, and then, uh, 2383 02:07:46.920 --> 02:07:49.199 you know, then then my leg starts going dumb and 2384 02:07:49.199 --> 02:07:51.479 it's like, hey, doc, come here, you're gonna help me, 2385 02:07:52.199 --> 02:07:55.319 and uh, you know, really, what I'm trying to do 2386 02:07:55.439 --> 02:07:57.560 is just get out of the way so that the 2387 02:07:57.920 --> 02:08:01.439 other medic can get in there and helps Cerro's and 2388 02:08:01.439 --> 02:08:03.520 and get him kind of drug out of the way 2389 02:08:04.199 --> 02:08:10.239 into the CCP. But I didn't really start panicking about 2390 02:08:10.239 --> 02:08:13.960 the whole thing until I got my equipment cut off 2391 02:08:14.000 --> 02:08:17.800 and my radios came out, and so then I lose 2392 02:08:17.800 --> 02:08:22.199 all situational awareness to the fight, and then it's like 2393 02:08:22.560 --> 02:08:24.960 anxiety comes in. It's like I have no idea what's 2394 02:08:25.000 --> 02:08:28.239 going on anymore, and I am not in control of anything, 2395 02:08:28.840 --> 02:08:31.239 you know, as a leader, and that that just sucks. 2396 02:08:32.279 --> 02:08:37.720 But I knew when we reorganized the priority for METOVAC 2397 02:08:38.159 --> 02:08:40.960 and it became myself and one of the snipers who 2398 02:08:41.039 --> 02:08:43.399 took Frag through the nose took took Frag through the 2399 02:08:43.399 --> 02:08:48.039 bridge of his nose. I knew that when I and 2400 02:08:48.159 --> 02:08:51.000 him went from being on the second aircraft out being 2401 02:08:51.039 --> 02:08:53.880 on the first aircraft out in the Afghan and Cero's 2402 02:08:54.039 --> 02:08:56.520 ended up on the second aircraft, I just knew that, 2403 02:08:56.600 --> 02:08:59.640 you know, thanks, we're not not going well. And you know, 2404 02:09:00.159 --> 02:09:02.720 wasn't gonna tell me anything anymore because I'm not in 2405 02:09:03.560 --> 02:09:05.319 you know, the first start and so on the objective. 2406 02:09:05.399 --> 02:09:08.199 So he's kind of taken over those duties, and I just, 2407 02:09:08.960 --> 02:09:12.279 you know, it was bad at that point. In my mind, 2408 02:09:12.399 --> 02:09:14.840 It's just you know, everything that's gone sideways can go 2409 02:09:14.920 --> 02:09:17.279 sideways and inside out. 2410 02:09:18.840 --> 02:09:22.279 And and so they metavaced you. And then when did 2411 02:09:22.319 --> 02:09:26.520 you when did you become aware of how the operation went. 2412 02:09:28.279 --> 02:09:33.000 So I got metavacked and got back to Shank. It 2413 02:09:33.079 --> 02:09:37.039 was probably about thirty minutes after I'd gotten shot by 2414 02:09:37.079 --> 02:09:39.279 the time we got you know, from the c C 2415 02:09:39.600 --> 02:09:42.600 you know, point of impact to the CCP and then 2416 02:09:42.720 --> 02:09:46.760 over to the HLZ to metavac and then loaded on 2417 02:09:46.880 --> 02:09:52.960 and then into the cash and then surgery. And then 2418 02:09:53.000 --> 02:09:55.079 I didn't find out that Sarah's was killed till I 2419 02:09:55.079 --> 02:09:58.920 got the ball room and then you know, some of 2420 02:09:58.920 --> 02:10:01.319 the guys that were in the S four shop come 2421 02:10:01.359 --> 02:10:03.279 over to tell me what was going on on the 2422 02:10:03.319 --> 02:10:06.479 objective and that game. The QRF came in and the 2423 02:10:06.479 --> 02:10:08.479 boys are still out there, and you know, the whole 2424 02:10:08.479 --> 02:10:12.720 thing went for like six more hours before you know, 2425 02:10:13.000 --> 02:10:16.279 the sun you know, it was done and over with 2426 02:10:16.359 --> 02:10:18.239 and they were pulling both flatuns out just as the 2427 02:10:18.279 --> 02:10:19.119 sun was coming up. 2428 02:10:19.359 --> 02:10:22.399 Yeah, and so then you both you begin that long 2429 02:10:22.479 --> 02:10:24.000 process of rehabilitation. 2430 02:10:26.039 --> 02:10:31.960 Uh yeah, yeah. Uh. So you know it was uh 2431 02:10:33.239 --> 02:10:36.039 probably three or four days in Afghanistan and Bogram waiting 2432 02:10:36.079 --> 02:10:38.319 on the Metavac transport to go to Germany, and it 2433 02:10:38.359 --> 02:10:40.079 was a week in Germany and then back to the 2434 02:10:40.079 --> 02:10:44.640 Madigan and you know, another week to ten days at Madigan, 2435 02:10:45.039 --> 02:10:46.880 and you know, by the time it was all said 2436 02:10:46.880 --> 02:10:52.159 and done, it was a dozen surgeries and then uh, 2437 02:10:53.119 --> 02:10:57.520 you know, rehab. So I didn't make it back on 2438 02:10:57.600 --> 02:11:00.760 active duty status until after New Year's Toy twelve? 2439 02:11:02.039 --> 02:11:04.840 Did did did you? 2440 02:11:05.039 --> 02:11:07.680 Were you able to contact your wife from the theater 2441 02:11:07.920 --> 02:11:09.439 or when did she find out about it? 2442 02:11:10.520 --> 02:11:13.000 Uh? I called her right after I got out of 2443 02:11:13.000 --> 02:11:17.279 the first surgery in shank and but they handed me 2444 02:11:17.319 --> 02:11:19.279 the SAT phone and I'm still, you know, trying to 2445 02:11:19.319 --> 02:11:21.840 come out of sedation from that and so you know, 2446 02:11:21.920 --> 02:11:24.039 sat phones don't work well when the antennas pointed to 2447 02:11:24.079 --> 02:11:27.439 the ground, and so I was kind of frustrated. You know, 2448 02:11:27.479 --> 02:11:30.359 my mouth's all cotton bold from you know, the anesthesia 2449 02:11:30.399 --> 02:11:33.840 and the fentanyl, and you know, I'm frustrated that I 2450 02:11:33.880 --> 02:11:38.079 cannot be coharent enough. I just remember handing the phone 2451 02:11:38.159 --> 02:11:41.800 up to the UH thirty tune. I'm like, just please 2452 02:11:41.840 --> 02:11:46.720 tell her, And so he gave her the you know, 2453 02:11:46.840 --> 02:11:49.479 the you know, the information that was going on and 2454 02:11:49.520 --> 02:11:52.680 then uh, you know, the Battalian commander called her a 2455 02:11:52.760 --> 02:11:56.319 little bit later. I was in surgery and in my 2456 02:11:56.600 --> 02:12:01.239 ball room and so uh she she knew within you know, 2457 02:12:01.840 --> 02:12:02.680 a couple of hours. 2458 02:12:02.960 --> 02:12:06.960 Yeah, yeah, you're right in the in your book that 2459 02:12:07.520 --> 02:12:09.920 you know, probably the most difficult conversation you had to 2460 02:12:09.960 --> 02:12:16.640 have was with the family of specialist serahs and you know, yeah, and. 2461 02:12:17.039 --> 02:12:19.159 You know that that was a you know, it was 2462 02:12:19.319 --> 02:12:21.000 It's always tough, you know when you have to look 2463 02:12:21.600 --> 02:12:24.199 you know them in the you know, in the face 2464 02:12:24.239 --> 02:12:25.840 and say, hey, I'm you know, I'm sorry that your 2465 02:12:25.880 --> 02:12:28.039 son died. And he died, you know, right next to 2466 02:12:28.079 --> 02:12:33.720 me from you know, not not getting shot, but you know, 2467 02:12:33.760 --> 02:12:36.600 he died from fragmentation that just happened to catch him 2468 02:12:36.640 --> 02:12:39.319 under the arm and just the right spot where there 2469 02:12:39.399 --> 02:12:42.159 was a gap in the armor. And you know that 2470 02:12:42.520 --> 02:12:45.640 I survived and your son's dead, and you know, that's 2471 02:12:45.720 --> 02:12:50.560 that's one of those those tough situations. And you know, 2472 02:12:50.600 --> 02:12:52.399 because they can go one to two ways. You know, 2473 02:12:52.439 --> 02:12:54.199 they could be they can hate you for life, or 2474 02:12:54.199 --> 02:12:58.800 they can embrace you. And you know, luckily enough, his 2475 02:12:58.920 --> 02:13:02.760 dad had spent uh time in the army, uh so 2476 02:13:02.880 --> 02:13:06.920 he understood and so that was okay, And you know 2477 02:13:06.960 --> 02:13:08.720 that was kind of one of the harder things. You know, 2478 02:13:09.319 --> 02:13:11.680 last year, I got a chance to meet a bunch 2479 02:13:11.680 --> 02:13:14.560 of the gold Star families for the Seal team that 2480 02:13:14.680 --> 02:13:18.800 was killed, and you know, I'm always proud to meet him. 2481 02:13:18.840 --> 02:13:20.880 But it's kind of one of those double edged things 2482 02:13:20.960 --> 02:13:23.840 is that you know they're still holding on at anger 2483 02:13:24.079 --> 02:13:27.119 grief and you know, uh, which way is it going 2484 02:13:27.199 --> 02:13:29.039 to go? You know, are they gonna embrace you or 2485 02:13:29.039 --> 02:13:32.880 are they gonna hate you? And you know that that's 2486 02:13:32.960 --> 02:13:37.000 tough because I never not want to meet them, but 2487 02:13:37.199 --> 02:13:39.119 you know, on the same same side of it, you know, 2488 02:13:39.199 --> 02:13:43.079 I'm you know there, their son is not here, and 2489 02:13:43.159 --> 02:13:46.680 I am right, you know, but regardless of the fact, 2490 02:13:47.079 --> 02:13:49.119 you know, I I have a sense of pride, and 2491 02:13:49.159 --> 02:13:51.239 all the boys that were there that night have a 2492 02:13:51.279 --> 02:13:54.479 sense of pride. You know that. Hey, you know, regardless 2493 02:13:54.560 --> 02:13:56.960 of whether you like us or hate us, you know, 2494 02:13:57.840 --> 02:14:01.039 we brought him home and you know we're willing to 2495 02:14:01.119 --> 02:14:05.159 accept you know, your anger or frustration at the situation. 2496 02:14:05.720 --> 02:14:07.760 You know, that's just the way it is on the 2497 02:14:07.800 --> 02:14:09.119 survivor's side of it. 2498 02:14:09.199 --> 02:14:14.119 Right right, yeah, you I mean, you can't blame people 2499 02:14:14.199 --> 02:14:16.479 for their emotions and the circumstances. 2500 02:14:16.680 --> 02:14:16.960 You know. 2501 02:14:17.800 --> 02:14:20.399 So how did how did you end up finishing out 2502 02:14:20.439 --> 02:14:23.199 your career after getting shot up pretty badly? 2503 02:14:24.800 --> 02:14:29.279 I spent six months on the Talian staff and running 2504 02:14:29.279 --> 02:14:31.920 the S two shop, and then we had an incident 2505 02:14:31.960 --> 02:14:35.880 happened where we had to relieve a platoon sergeant in 2506 02:14:35.960 --> 02:14:38.199 one of the companies, and so I ended up moving 2507 02:14:38.199 --> 02:14:41.439 over to snipers for my last year, and I was 2508 02:14:41.520 --> 02:14:46.119 running the sniper platoon for the last year, and then 2509 02:14:47.359 --> 02:14:51.479 I was on the sniper range. We were out eastern 2510 02:14:51.640 --> 02:14:56.600 Washington shooting on a Department Energy range over there, and 2511 02:14:56.640 --> 02:14:58.800 you know, the company commander of the first sergeant come over, 2512 02:14:58.920 --> 02:15:01.960 and you know, off site training is always fun because 2513 02:15:01.960 --> 02:15:04.479 everybody gets to be out of the office. So you know, 2514 02:15:04.560 --> 02:15:07.720 I'm hobbling around and and kind of dragging my leg 2515 02:15:07.760 --> 02:15:09.199 and at first start and like, hey, you're going to 2516 02:15:09.199 --> 02:15:11.520 see a specialist when we get back. And so I 2517 02:15:11.560 --> 02:15:13.520 went and saw the specialists and he kind of just 2518 02:15:13.600 --> 02:15:17.199 laid it out, you know, bluntly for me. He goes, 2519 02:15:17.239 --> 02:15:20.600 do you want to walk when you're forty? And I said, 2520 02:15:20.600 --> 02:15:22.159 well yeah, and he goes, well, then you need to 2521 02:15:22.159 --> 02:15:27.520 stop now, and so you know, that started the whole 2522 02:15:28.119 --> 02:15:31.760 uh you know, medboard process. And so then I was 2523 02:15:31.800 --> 02:15:37.039 out of the Army about six months later. Wow wow. 2524 02:15:37.800 --> 02:15:40.439 So I know a lot of guys that take some 2525 02:15:40.640 --> 02:15:42.680 a year or two or three to get out. But 2526 02:15:42.800 --> 02:15:46.560 because I wasn't on any kind of pain medications or 2527 02:15:46.920 --> 02:15:50.760 any of that stuff, you know, was they didn't have to, 2528 02:15:51.399 --> 02:15:53.600 you know, worry about substance abuse or any of that. 2529 02:15:54.000 --> 02:15:57.640 And so my packet kind of went a little bit 2530 02:15:57.640 --> 02:15:59.680 faster than than some of the other guys. Some of 2531 02:15:59.720 --> 02:16:03.039 the other as from they had gotten shot that deployment. 2532 02:16:03.079 --> 02:16:05.119 You know, we're still in for another year or so 2533 02:16:05.279 --> 02:16:08.000 even after I got out, because they had to get 2534 02:16:08.399 --> 02:16:14.000 you know through kind of a I don't want to 2535 02:16:14.000 --> 02:16:16.000 say rehab process, but you know, they kind of had 2536 02:16:16.039 --> 02:16:19.600 to get leaned off the meds and you know and 2537 02:16:19.680 --> 02:16:21.800 finish the rehabbing and stuff. 2538 02:16:23.720 --> 02:16:26.399 Yeah. I also I noticed it in your book. You 2539 02:16:26.479 --> 02:16:30.119 also are you involved with Gallant few? 2540 02:16:30.399 --> 02:16:34.040 I know that you have the PostScript for them. 2541 02:16:35.079 --> 02:16:40.120 They I'm friends with, you know, some of the guys 2542 02:16:40.120 --> 02:16:44.159 that had to Gallant for you, tim Abel and I'm 2543 02:16:44.239 --> 02:16:46.399 drawing a blank. Carl Monger and some of the others, 2544 02:16:46.399 --> 02:16:49.200 but it was one of those things. Yeah, Carl Monger did, 2545 02:16:49.319 --> 02:16:52.000 so it was one of those things that he Carl 2546 02:16:52.079 --> 02:16:54.000 asked me if we would put that in there, and 2547 02:16:54.040 --> 02:16:56.639 I said, I will most definitely gladly, you know, put 2548 02:16:56.639 --> 02:16:59.680 that in there to kind of help you know, all 2549 02:16:59.680 --> 02:17:00.520 the film is out. 2550 02:17:02.760 --> 02:17:06.319 Yeah, I mean, since it's in your book. Hey, folks, 2551 02:17:06.399 --> 02:17:10.399 if you have a spare of five bucks this month 2552 02:17:10.479 --> 02:17:13.159 or whatever, why don't you head over to Gallant Few. 2553 02:17:13.319 --> 02:17:13.559 Yeah. 2554 02:17:13.719 --> 02:17:16.479 I haven't spoken to Carl in a while, and probably 2555 02:17:16.479 --> 02:17:18.799 I should correct that, but he's a good guy and 2556 02:17:18.879 --> 02:17:21.280 Gallant Few does a lot to help guys out. 2557 02:17:21.319 --> 02:17:26.680 But it's a gallant Yeah, Gallant Gallant Few dot org. 2558 02:17:27.159 --> 02:17:29.399 Check them out, throw them a buck or two. You know. 2559 02:17:29.879 --> 02:17:30.040 So. 2560 02:17:30.200 --> 02:17:32.959 I know we've kept you for a while here, uh, Nick, 2561 02:17:33.040 --> 02:17:35.520 but let's hit up these user questions real quick. 2562 02:17:35.559 --> 02:17:38.760 Yeah, we've only got a couple one from Jackson, Thank 2563 02:17:38.760 --> 02:17:39.360 you very much. 2564 02:17:39.600 --> 02:17:40.120 Uh. 2565 02:17:40.280 --> 02:17:42.120 Did you ever work with any of the Tier one 2566 02:17:42.200 --> 02:17:45.479 units Delta Seal Team six hr T and a SOW 2567 02:17:45.840 --> 02:17:48.319 which impressed you the most of the bunch? 2568 02:17:48.319 --> 02:17:48.959 And why. 2569 02:17:50.760 --> 02:17:54.159 You worked with all of them, you know, in in 2570 02:17:54.200 --> 02:17:59.440 some aspect or another. I lean towards you know, I 2571 02:17:59.719 --> 02:18:03.600 did enjoy working with Delta Force a little bit more, 2572 02:18:04.840 --> 02:18:07.239 and a lot of it is just because there's kind 2573 02:18:07.239 --> 02:18:12.280 of this I don't know, you know, and all the 2574 02:18:12.319 --> 02:18:14.680 tier elements have their own personality, and you know, we 2575 02:18:14.920 --> 02:18:17.680 kind of sometimes fit better with guys in Delta Force 2576 02:18:17.760 --> 02:18:21.639 because especially early on, you know a lot of the 2577 02:18:21.680 --> 02:18:25.000 team leaders and squad leaders and guys, you know, the 2578 02:18:25.040 --> 02:18:28.639 career progression is, you know, from the Ranger regimen is 2579 02:18:28.680 --> 02:18:32.159 to go to that organization, so there is a familiarity 2580 02:18:32.239 --> 02:18:35.760 with people who understand where you're coming from as a 2581 02:18:35.879 --> 02:18:39.399 unit or an organization, whereas we didn't really have that 2582 02:18:39.479 --> 02:18:41.559 for a while with Team six, and so we always 2583 02:18:41.639 --> 02:18:43.920 kind of got looked at as like the kid brother thing. 2584 02:18:44.520 --> 02:18:47.000 And then as far as the HRT, I've only worked 2585 02:18:47.000 --> 02:18:48.799 with a few guys from there, and that was in 2586 02:18:48.879 --> 02:18:52.840 the kind of middle part of Iraq, you know, it 2587 02:18:52.879 --> 02:18:55.639 was only a select view, and that was the kind 2588 02:18:55.639 --> 02:18:59.639 of we were building the terrorist database with the you know, 2589 02:18:59.719 --> 02:19:04.159 the three letter agencies for you know, Homeland security and whatnot. 2590 02:19:05.280 --> 02:19:08.479 So as far as that goes, but you know, everybody's 2591 02:19:08.479 --> 02:19:10.479 they're all a great bunch of guys. I mean, I know, 2592 02:19:11.079 --> 02:19:13.840 you know, in certain aspects, you know, we all talk 2593 02:19:13.959 --> 02:19:16.280 trash on each other because we can, and you know, 2594 02:19:16.319 --> 02:19:18.799 it's a cultural thing, and if you're not a part 2595 02:19:18.799 --> 02:19:21.879 of the culture, then sometimes it gets looked at it's unprofessional. 2596 02:19:21.920 --> 02:19:26.319 But you know, you read enough Seal books and they 2597 02:19:26.360 --> 02:19:29.040 take cheap shots on us, and so this some of 2598 02:19:29.079 --> 02:19:32.520 this was, you know, a chance to you know, level 2599 02:19:32.520 --> 02:19:34.559 the field if you will, and take a few shots 2600 02:19:34.559 --> 02:19:42.840 at them, and so yeah, professional then you know, then 2601 02:19:42.920 --> 02:19:43.440 so be it. 2602 02:19:43.479 --> 02:19:48.559 But yeah, Elms, thank you for the donation. So Elms 2603 02:19:48.760 --> 02:19:52.239 gave us a sticker and I'm not and Alms later 2604 02:19:52.319 --> 02:19:55.799 comments that sicker didn't work out right, dang, So I don't. 2605 02:19:56.079 --> 02:20:01.079 The sticker is either somebody raising us up and worshiping us, 2606 02:20:02.159 --> 02:20:05.479 or I'll go with it, or it's uh, it's I 2607 02:20:05.879 --> 02:20:08.159 don't know, it's like holding up a new baby. I'm 2608 02:20:08.200 --> 02:20:10.600 not sure, but I'm gonna go with the worst. That 2609 02:20:11.440 --> 02:20:13.159 the three of us, the four of us including d 2610 02:20:13.840 --> 02:20:17.440 the four of us are are the new pantheon for Ohms. 2611 02:20:20.879 --> 02:20:23.079 Hey, can we take like a five minute break? 2612 02:20:23.239 --> 02:20:23.479 Yeah? 2613 02:20:23.719 --> 02:20:28.440 Yeah, go ahead, man, we'll yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, sure, 2614 02:20:28.479 --> 02:20:32.600 thanks yeah. 2615 02:20:31.079 --> 02:20:35.399 Yeah, So guys, uh, next episode is going to be 2616 02:20:36.200 --> 02:20:40.079 Hold on a second, I'll tease this out here. Uh okay, 2617 02:20:40.120 --> 02:20:42.799 So on the third, actually we have an extra episode 2618 02:20:42.799 --> 02:20:46.399 that we crammed in here James Laporta, who's an investigative 2619 02:20:46.440 --> 02:20:50.639 journalist with the Associated Press. He is also a former marine, 2620 02:20:51.159 --> 02:20:54.040 and he's broken some of the stories about what's that 2621 02:20:54.079 --> 02:20:58.559 guy's name, Majewski, guy running for Congress who's a stolen 2622 02:20:59.840 --> 02:21:02.360 I shouldn't say he's a stolen valorie guy. 2623 02:21:02.440 --> 02:21:05.959 He he actually did serve, but he's still. 2624 02:21:05.840 --> 02:21:08.360 Still on valor. If you say that you did top 2625 02:21:08.399 --> 02:21:09.799 secret deployments and you. 2626 02:21:09.879 --> 02:21:14.600 Didn't, my deployments are classified, Yeah, that's still I think 2627 02:21:14.600 --> 02:21:15.319 that's still still. 2628 02:21:16.159 --> 02:21:18.360 We'll let you guys vote whether it's stolen valor or not. 2629 02:21:18.600 --> 02:21:21.120 But then dude makes step stuff about his military career 2630 02:21:21.159 --> 02:21:23.719 that's kind of not cool, stolen valerie ish. 2631 02:21:23.760 --> 02:21:29.799 And then next Friday is Tim Winer. Tim is a journalist. 2632 02:21:29.879 --> 02:21:32.159 He wrote, He's written a number of books. 2633 02:21:33.319 --> 02:21:37.000 He's written some pretty definitive histories of the Central Intelligence 2634 02:21:37.000 --> 02:21:43.799 Agency and the FBI in a history of political warfare 2635 02:21:43.840 --> 02:21:48.399 between America and Russia. So that'll be a pretty interesting conversation, 2636 02:21:48.559 --> 02:21:54.000 I think. And then on the tenth another extra episode 2637 02:21:54.360 --> 02:21:58.600 Joan Barker and she was facilitating some of the aviation 2638 02:21:59.200 --> 02:22:02.959 for an internal de fence in Afghanistan. And in both 2639 02:22:03.000 --> 02:22:06.440 Tim and Joan they will be in studio interviews, and 2640 02:22:06.680 --> 02:22:11.760 so will on the fourteenth John Fox, who he was 2641 02:22:11.799 --> 02:22:15.120 a marine and he worked or he went and he 2642 02:22:15.159 --> 02:22:19.479 became an international volunteer with the YPG in Syria, and 2643 02:22:19.520 --> 02:22:22.239 he wrote this book that I'm almost done with it now. 2644 02:22:22.719 --> 02:22:25.520 He wrote a book about it's co authored him and 2645 02:22:25.559 --> 02:22:30.399 two other guys who are foreign volunteers and fought with 2646 02:22:30.479 --> 02:22:35.360 the Kurds in Syria against ices. So it's a pretty 2647 02:22:35.399 --> 02:22:36.399 fascinating book. 2648 02:22:36.440 --> 02:22:37.760 I think it'll be a good interview. 2649 02:22:37.879 --> 02:22:39.840 Good stuff, good stuff. 2650 02:22:39.879 --> 02:22:41.879 And if you haven't joined our patron, join our patron, 2651 02:22:42.079 --> 02:22:43.920 like hook us up, hook yourselves up. 2652 02:22:44.079 --> 02:22:46.360 There's a ton of bonus content on there. 2653 02:22:46.520 --> 02:22:48.479 Like I said, you get to see John Jack and 2654 02:22:48.479 --> 02:22:50.680 I and are I said smoking pajamas earlier. 2655 02:22:50.680 --> 02:22:53.360 I'm not smoking jackets smoking, but we keep it casual. 2656 02:22:53.520 --> 02:22:54.879 We don't have smoking jackets. 2657 02:22:54.920 --> 02:22:59.639 We keep it really casual. And our wife who pillows. 2658 02:23:00.879 --> 02:23:02.719 That we have that we have the human door and 2659 02:23:02.760 --> 02:23:05.079 the cigars are on their way, so we'll see who 2660 02:23:05.079 --> 02:23:06.840 wants to smoke it up. 2661 02:23:09.280 --> 02:23:09.760 Mecheless. 2662 02:23:10.719 --> 02:23:14.719 Thanks so much man for for spending a Friday night 2663 02:23:14.760 --> 02:23:15.079 with us. 2664 02:23:15.079 --> 02:23:16.280 We we really appreciate. 2665 02:23:16.360 --> 02:23:18.319 Yeah, quick, quick, quick one from what. 2666 02:23:18.280 --> 02:23:21.719 I appreciate you guys having me what of our what if? 2667 02:23:21.719 --> 02:23:26.000 Our Patreon users asked if, since you were two seven five, 2668 02:23:26.079 --> 02:23:28.639 did you ever serve with Pat Tillman and his brother. 2669 02:23:30.239 --> 02:23:32.719 Yeah, I mean they were in Alpha Company and I 2670 02:23:32.760 --> 02:23:35.079 was in Robert Company and Charlie Kenedy, But yeah, they were. 2671 02:23:35.360 --> 02:23:37.159 Kevin and Pat were both there at the same time. 2672 02:23:39.440 --> 02:23:44.159 Do I know them? Not really? I mean I know 2673 02:23:44.280 --> 02:23:48.920 him about as well as I, you know, know Matt Best, 2674 02:23:49.200 --> 02:23:51.840 which is I I know who he is, and I 2675 02:23:51.879 --> 02:23:54.239 know he was in Alpha Company, and you know that's 2676 02:23:54.239 --> 02:23:55.000 about where it's at. 2677 02:23:55.399 --> 02:23:56.479 Yeah, yeah, fair enough. 2678 02:23:57.200 --> 02:24:02.559 So everybody some great eight great war stories, I mean 2679 02:24:02.760 --> 02:24:05.200 on the ground stuff for for so many things that 2680 02:24:05.239 --> 02:24:09.719 have happened during the g y first hand accounts run 2681 02:24:09.799 --> 02:24:11.239 to the sound of the guns. 2682 02:24:11.559 --> 02:24:14.799 Check it out, get it on, you know, we say Amazon. 2683 02:24:15.120 --> 02:24:16.760 The link is down the links down. 2684 02:24:16.600 --> 02:24:21.399 Below, but yeah, we highly recommend it. 2685 02:24:21.520 --> 02:24:22.040 Check it out. 2686 02:24:22.399 --> 02:24:24.479 Uh, do you have anything that you want to plug 2687 02:24:24.639 --> 02:24:27.360 an aside from gallup you or you involved in any 2688 02:24:27.879 --> 02:24:31.360 charities or organizations or businesses that you want to plug, 2689 02:24:31.399 --> 02:24:32.399 anything that you want to do. 2690 02:24:33.840 --> 02:24:41.600 Not currently you know. No, I'm not involved in anything 2691 02:24:41.600 --> 02:24:46.600 of this deal. Retired guy who got conned into writing 2692 02:24:46.639 --> 02:24:50.760 a book if you will, and uh, well if people 2693 02:24:50.799 --> 02:24:53.040 ask me, you know, hey, would you would you write 2694 02:24:53.040 --> 02:24:55.239 another one? And I was like no, because I don't 2695 02:24:55.239 --> 02:24:56.440 know what it was going to take to write the 2696 02:24:56.440 --> 02:24:59.079 first one. I would not have even written that one. 2697 02:25:00.120 --> 02:25:02.520 Yeah, it's a great book, tons of references, a lot 2698 02:25:02.520 --> 02:25:05.000 of great pictures too, which is something you know, you 2699 02:25:05.440 --> 02:25:07.520 see a lot of pictures in Vietnam era books, but 2700 02:25:07.559 --> 02:25:09.520 you don't see a lot of pictures I think in 2701 02:25:09.600 --> 02:25:11.959 like modern g WAT books a lot of times, which 2702 02:25:12.000 --> 02:25:14.280 is I think it's it's really cool, you know, it's 2703 02:25:14.280 --> 02:25:16.719 something that a lot of really interesting. 2704 02:25:16.760 --> 02:25:19.040 And that one of your wound I've never seen a 2705 02:25:19.079 --> 02:25:24.280 pump like that sucks. Yeah, it's very interesting. Yeah. 2706 02:25:24.360 --> 02:25:28.239 Yeah, actually it does suck because it's a wound back. 2707 02:25:28.680 --> 02:25:31.280 Yeah whatever. 2708 02:25:33.600 --> 02:25:36.920 Sorry, all right, all right, thank you Nick so much. 2709 02:25:37.200 --> 02:25:39.520 You know again, I really appreciate it, appreciate your family's 2710 02:25:39.559 --> 02:25:42.799 patience with us while we suck you away on a Friday, 2711 02:25:44.000 --> 02:25:46.200 and you know, if there's anything you know we can do, 2712 02:25:46.680 --> 02:25:49.440 feel free to reach out anytime and hope talk to you, 2713 02:25:49.680 --> 02:25:50.600 talk to you again soon. 2714 02:25:51.639 --> 02:25:52.680 All right, I appreciate it. 2715 02:25:52.680 --> 02:25:55.200 Thanks guys, have a good night. Thank you everyone who 2716 02:25:55.280 --> 02:25:57.399 joined us. We'll see you next Friday, or we'll see 2717 02:25:57.399 --> 02:26:42.600 you before that. With my names