WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.520 --> 00:00:05.599 Welcome, welcome, Can you get me five. 2 00:00:07.400 --> 00:00:18.920 Four three two one. 3 00:00:17.199 --> 00:03:12.639 Zero dire wave dire way. The scientific method cannot justify 4 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:17.240 the scientific method. Therefore itself is a dogmatical physic. 5 00:03:17.159 --> 00:04:23.600 Subsision stop stop stop stop stop steps stop stop stop stops. 6 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:32.480 Sensing sensing. 7 00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:40.800 A stass. 8 00:04:40.759 --> 00:06:45.920 Step. It's asssssssssstopsstssssssstopsssssh start start star sang. 9 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:25.319 What's up? What's up? What's up? Welcome? Audio? Good? Can 10 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:34.560 you hear me? Felow quite, felow quite? Chat? Catch up? 11 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:40.639 Make sure you can hear me? When is ESA Turk 12 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:43.759 Hollywood two coming out? Bruh, it's been out since December, 13 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:47.879 it's been out for six months. Signed copies that Jayson aalysis, 14 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:58.040 by the way, does it sound good? Okay, welcome y'all 15 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:06.319 to Sunday. Addition, Jay's analysis, Bruh, asking about my book 16 00:08:06.439 --> 00:08:12.959 Part two, Part two been out? Allow me to put 17 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:15.879 the link in the chat. Volume is a little low, okay, 18 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:19.839 all right? Oh well, the link to the chat right 19 00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:23.519 there in the chat. Get yourself a signed copy of 20 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:28.879 us The Turk Hollywood one and two. Let me make 21 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:31.920 sure that my Mike's volume is up high enough in 22 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:44.559 the computer settings. First, I'm fixing the volume. Ah, that's one. 23 00:08:47.799 --> 00:08:52.879 Apple has a tendency to automatically move the volume in 24 00:08:53.039 --> 00:09:01.679 the computer settings low, so that should be better. Hollywood 25 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:04.679 Decoded too, No, no, there's not gonna be a Hollywood 26 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:12.840 Decoded too. It never was ago. They never did. Okay that, 27 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:19.120 but you can come and enjoy movies with me. I 28 00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:25.279 just posted my alien analysis. Well, Aliens towerk for you 29 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:31.279 to fulfill your licentious pleasures that all you webs have. 30 00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:34.639 We all know why you want to break into area 31 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:41.799 fifty one because of your insatiable lusts, and so I 32 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:47.279 made a video for you with Aliens twerking. I thought 33 00:09:47.320 --> 00:09:51.879 it was very funny. The first five minutes are very 34 00:09:54.799 --> 00:10:03.399 Samuel Heidstein, but welcome to jamesonnalysis. So the timing was perfect, 35 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:12.759 wasn't it to cover the debate between an Orthodox and 36 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:16.480 a Barley mine? Now I read this book ten years ago. 37 00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:23.879 I read the debate ten years ago, and after all 38 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:27.720 of what's transpired in the last few months, the various 39 00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:30.440 debates and whatnot, I thought, why not go back and 40 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:33.120 reread this? So I did the last couple of days, 41 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:39.759 and for those that don't know, it is now reprinted 42 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:50.600 under snuy Sunni New York Press, so you don't have 43 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:55.399 to buy the three hundred dollars version on Amazon, which 44 00:10:55.440 --> 00:10:59.440 actually I gave away to a dude, Jason Nelson's supporter 45 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:02.840 Ludwig on Twitter. I didn't realize that I was giving 46 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:04.919 away three hundred dollars book. I hope he appreciates that. 47 00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:08.120 But actually the books twenty bucks that you can buy 48 00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:13.639 it at snuy Press on their website. You have to 49 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:16.600 go to their website on Amazon. You know, it's like 50 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:18.879 three hundred dollars on Amazon, So don't buy that one. 51 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:23.200 It has a good scholarly introduction for what it is. 52 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:27.720 The scholars, of course don't really get orthodox theology, but 53 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:32.240 they do their best, and if you read the thirty 54 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:35.840 forty page introduction you get a decent overview of what 55 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:39.440 the background is why this debate happened. Now, let's talk 56 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:43.120 about that first. Because in the debate with our UNI 57 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:47.039 eight person a couple of days ago, we heard many 58 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:50.960 many times over that the Franciscans and the Scotis or 59 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:54.039 what matter, And they prove that the Tomistic or in 60 00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:57.399 the vein of the Tomistic version of absolute devind simplicity 61 00:11:57.480 --> 00:12:00.600 is not actually Roman Catholic dogma. Why because of John 62 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:03.519 Scotus and he's an accepted theologian. That's not how Roman 63 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:07.919 Catholic dogma works. You can't rewind in time to find 64 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:11.000 somebody in the seventh century, the fourth century, the thirteenth 65 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:19.279 century when dogmas later become defined in Roman dogma. So 66 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:23.080 it literally does not matter what John duns Scotis said 67 00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:27.080 about a matter that is later codified. Now he would 68 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:29.120 have if we had gotten into the debate, he would 69 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:34.600 have said, yeah, But John don Scotus is a acceptable 70 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:38.120 theologian in Rome Catholicism, so therefore any opinion that he 71 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:42.600 has is acceptable. Really, no, that's not how it works. 72 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:48.200 Thomas Aquinas has theological opinions that were later not accepted 73 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:51.200 in Rome Catholicism. Does that mean that because Aquinas isn't 74 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:55.000 accepted theologian, that any of his opinions are therefore acceptable. No, 75 00:12:55.159 --> 00:12:58.679 of course not, because that's not how the Roman system works. 76 00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:03.200 How often do the Roman Catholics tell us this constantly? 77 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:05.799 They constantly tell us that the reason that we need 78 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:09.679 the pope is because there's no way to discern the 79 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:15.679 dogma from opinions. And what do many of the Roman 80 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:19.200 Catholic theologians, especially those in the Uniate circles, wants us 81 00:13:19.240 --> 00:13:22.200 to believe. Oh, much of this, you see, is just 82 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:26.879 in the realm of opinion. But as I've always argued 83 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:32.000 for many years now, at least not always always, but 84 00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:38.919 many years now, the doctrine of divine simplicity in the 85 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:43.080 West is not just a doctrine that relates to propositions 86 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:47.480 about the simplicity of the divine nature. It's the founding 87 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:54.840 presupposition that infects the totality of the Roman Catholic worldview. So, 88 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:57.600 if my thesis is correct, it's not just a matter 89 00:13:57.679 --> 00:14:01.440 of finding the council of Rhymes saying that all of 90 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:03.799 the attributes are equated to one another, which is what 91 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:08.039 Denzinger says in that quote in my essay show. It's 92 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:10.360 also a matter of looking at the other implications of 93 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:13.840 that doctrine. That's always been the argument. That's not some 94 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.720 new thing I've tacked on, as our opponent said the 95 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:18.960 other day, It's always been the argument, and all the 96 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:21.759 essays that have been writing, there's dozens of these essays, 97 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:27.759 dozens of papers, countless talks, and so therefore it's not 98 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:30.519 just a matter of looking at what the propositions are 99 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:33.600 in Denzinger about divine simplicity. Now we do do that. 100 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:36.799 We start there, We look at the different propositions about simplicity, 101 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:40.720 and there's five or six that are explicit in Denzinger 102 00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:44.480 about that from the early on all the way up 103 00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:51.519 until Vatican one statement. But that's not all that we do, 104 00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:55.039 because that's not all the doctrine of simplicity in the 105 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:59.559 Roman Catholic scheme relates to. You see, it also gives 106 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:05.480 their christology a specific approach, a specific series of statements 107 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:11.759 set of statements, because divine simplicity effects obviously necessarily how 108 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:16.080 one will view the incarnation. How is it possible that 109 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:20.440 one hypostasis of the Trinity becomes incarnate and not the 110 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:23.600 entire Trinity becoming incarnate. So we have to have a 111 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:27.720 theology that allows for the possibility of one hypostasis, one 112 00:15:27.799 --> 00:15:31.000 person in the Trinity, the second person, the Logos, entering 113 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:34.480 into a mode of being a tropos that the other 114 00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:39.080 two persons, the Father and the Spirit, do not. Now, ultimately, 115 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:42.840 Roman Catholic theology, in its doctrine and statements of simplicity, 116 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:51.159 especially in Tunism, does not really coherently allow for the 117 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:54.399 second person of the Trinity to become incarnate. Do they 118 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:56.600 believe and confess that he did? Of course they do. 119 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:00.320 Of course Aquinas says many true things. Course course of 120 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:05.440 Quinas thought that the Logos became incarnate. That's not the argument. 121 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:08.440 The argument is not what he thought. The argument is 122 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:11.440 not did he at times confess true things? The argument 123 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:15.919 is that he confesses conflicting things. Two different arguments, very simple. 124 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:22.960 So if we equate attributes and persons, if we say 125 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:25.759 that the Son is the equivalent to the will of God, 126 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:28.600 if we say that the Son is literally identical to 127 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:32.960 the energies or the essence of God, which Roman Cathic 128 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:36.879 theology does say, we can't also in another book of 129 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.039 the Suma or in another place turn around and say, 130 00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:43.840 but he's also truly distinct, and he became incarnate and 131 00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:49.120 not the Father, not the Spirit. Because if the distinctions 132 00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:55.519 are real, and they are then from the outset, we 133 00:16:55.600 --> 00:17:01.799 don't have a problem of assuming the distinction entails composition 134 00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:05.440 or division in this. When we go through these arguments 135 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:08.680 with these people, that's consistently what they come back to. 136 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:11.279 There cannot be a distinction between God's essence and his 137 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:14.160 activities or his energies, because that would lead to composition 138 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:16.720 in God. That wo mean God has accidents. Well, no, 139 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:19.759 he does not, and we don't say that. For John Damascus, 140 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:22.720 when he argues for the uncreated energies being distinct from 141 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:25.640 the essence, he does not think of them as accidents. 142 00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:29.559 In God right, God is not cut up into substance 143 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:33.160 an accident. And if we read the philosophical investigations the 144 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:37.400 excuse me, the fount of knowledge he explains this. He 145 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:39.720 also states in defensive Orthodox faith that God does not 146 00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:42.720 have substance an accident, as if he was composed. However, 147 00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:49.839 the uncreated energies are not accidents. They are uncreated energies. 148 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:55.319 You see. So we constantly will see the clever word 149 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:58.880 games and tricks that the Roman Catholics play to get 150 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:01.519 around these facts. And what I wanted to bring up 151 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:06.519 with Scotos was that John Donscotis dies when san Gregor 152 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:09.480 Palomos as a child. San Gregor Palomos is a kid, 153 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:14.000 a young child, when John dons Scotis dies. And then 154 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:17.680 after the controversies of the Middle Ages, particularly the debate 155 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:22.359 between a Barleymite and Orthodox, we have the clear parting 156 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:25.759 of ways. You see, there's a development to these things. 157 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:31.960 This debate shows you the development and what path did 158 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:36.480 the Roman Church take. There's no disputing this. Clearly they 159 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:41.200 took the Barleamite path. Any Roman galactyologian that you talked 160 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:44.599 to today will argue the Barleamite positions even if he 161 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:48.160 doesn't know who Barlem is, because it's eventually codified into 162 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:51.559 their dogmas. It's not just codified in the statements about 163 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:54.920 what simplicity is, you see, and that's why this debate 164 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:58.480 is not just about what simplicity is. What does Saint 165 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:00.759 Gregory Palamas say towards the middle debate? He says, the 166 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:04.559 real difference between you and I is that for us, 167 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:08.000 Grace is uncreated and for you Grace is a supernatural creation. 168 00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:14.000 The Roman Catholic dogma is that Grace is a supernatural creation. 169 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:21.720 It is not an uncreated grace. That's why in the 170 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:25.759 debate with Luke, I listed the four statements directly from 171 00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:28.920 the first four statements in Ludwig Gott about what grace is. 172 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:33.240 Now we're a Roman Catholic at this point will typically say, yeah, 173 00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:39.000 but he Grace is cause and caused Okay, it's cause 174 00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:43.559 and effects, right. All that means is that the effects 175 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:50.440 are created. God himself is uncreated, and you, as a creature, 176 00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:53.680 received the effects of grace, and therefore that's all it means. No, no, no, no, no, 177 00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:56.440 that's not all it means. You see, because in Trent, 178 00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:02.359 in the Anathemas of Trent under Justification, it says that 179 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:08.039 the righteousness that you get is not the righteousness that 180 00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:15.680 God has. If you read Lagrange's commentary on a Quinas, specifically, 181 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:18.559 when he talks about grace, he says, it is a 182 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:23.720 supernatural creation. It is not the essence of God. We 183 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:27.000 are speaking of the grace itself. We're not talking about persons, 184 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:30.799 the creatures who receive the effects. We're not talking about 185 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:33.960 God himself. We're talking about the grace itself. What is it? 186 00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:37.759 This has been answered in Roman Catholic dogmatic theology. That's 187 00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:41.000 why Ludwig got lists four statements. There's many, but the 188 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:44.440 first four make this point very clearly. Grace is a 189 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:53.920 supernatural created accident in the soul. Hence, this debate goes 190 00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:57.240 too many different areas. It's not just the debate about 191 00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:02.039 propositions about divine simplicity, it's a debate about Christology. It's 192 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:04.839 a debate about the beatific vision. It's a debate about 193 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:08.920 how the human nature in Christ is affected by the 194 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:16.960 divine person assuming it. This debate literally goes to all 195 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.880 the places that you hear me go. You think that 196 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:22.039 I make these things up. You think that I'm just 197 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:24.519 saying this stuff. No, no, no, it's all right here 198 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:30.200 and rereading this after ten years, just like a few 199 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:35.079 months ago we reread Saint John Damascus defensely Orthodox Faith. 200 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:37.759 We lectured all the way through it, and two or 201 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:41.599 three years before that, we lectured through a fount of knowledge. 202 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:46.079 Everything that I've been saying is correct. I'm not wrong. 203 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:50.880 So let's get into this work itself. Oh but so 204 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:54.799 to sum up, in response to the chief objection to 205 00:21:55.119 --> 00:22:00.279 our debater last time, his chief argument was that you've 206 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:02.880 changed your position because at one time you said that 207 00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:08.079 tumism is the Roman Caolic dogma simplicity. Yes and no. Okay. So, 208 00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:12.480 on the one hand, not everything that Thomas says is dogma. 209 00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:15.000 We all know this, we all admit this, and even 210 00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:18.640 in divine simplicity, Okay, you could argue that not every 211 00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:23.559 statement that Thomas says is the dogmatic definitions in Denzinger. No, 212 00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:29.000 that's true. But if we want to understand the import 213 00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:31.480 and force of the argument, it has never been about 214 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:35.279 just claims relating to what simplicity is. That's only one 215 00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:38.079 part of the argument. Because this is our starting point. 216 00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:41.240 This is two different order of theologis right, the West 217 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:45.160 has a different order theologi from the East. Now, the 218 00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:48.319 easiest way to disprove what the Uniate was saying was 219 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:50.799 to simply point out that it cannot be the case 220 00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:55.720 that two rival theologies right here which anathematize each other, 221 00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:01.240 can for centuries be in opposition. And then after the 222 00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:04.720 ecumenical period of Vatican two, suddenly Gregory Palomos is a saint. 223 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:09.920 Now this is absurd. That alone shows you that Roman 224 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:13.359 Catholicism cannot be correct, because they cannot say at one time, 225 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:19.319 for many centuries Polemism is yoga or Hinduism or whatever 226 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:22.160 nonsense they come up with, and then after Vatican two 227 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:26.240 is suddenly because of ecumenical interests, oh you're acceptable, right, 228 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:31.440 Oh well, for many centuries, Uniates just ignored Rome on purgatory, 229 00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:35.359 on how they viewed Palomos, how they viewed the energies, 230 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:40.359 and now it's acceptable. There's no midway between grace being 231 00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:44.400 a supernatural creation and grace being uncreated. They're two mutually 232 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:51.359 exclusive positions, and in Orthodoxy it's condemned. It's sung in 233 00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:56.720 the liturgy that we anathematize the Latin view that came 234 00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:00.519 to dominate after this debate. So, in other words, it's 235 00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.559 never been just propositions that relate to divine simplicity. It's 236 00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:07.319 also been about the philioquay, because the Romancathoic position doesn't 237 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.440 understand what eternal manifestation is. The entire argument of the 238 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:15.440 Palamite son odds after this that relate to Philioquay and 239 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:21.079 uncreated energies centers around the statements and the fathers about 240 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:26.079 eternal manifestation. The modern the Vatican clarification on the Philioquay 241 00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:30.240 from a few years ago still admits the tension between 242 00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:32.240 the East and the West on the point of eternal 243 00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:35.319 manifestation and on the point of Florence in the Double Procession. 244 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:39.880 It admits that Florence says that the son also participates 245 00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:45.759 in the father's hyposthetic role as cause the son participates 246 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:49.519 in being a co cause he's not the principal cause principolitar, 247 00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:53.559 as it says, he's a co cause. The son does 248 00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:58.079 not participate in the Father's unique property that blends the persons. 249 00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:00.720 There's only one cause in the Godhead, as all the 250 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:03.039 fathers in the East say, and that's the person of 251 00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:05.680 the Father. There's not a secondary cause in the Godhead. 252 00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:08.359 There's not a property that the father and the son share. 253 00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:11.799 The spirit lacks. And if father and son are a 254 00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:15.400 co cause, which Florence clearly says, and Florence explicitly says 255 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:18.759 that the Father and the son are a cause not 256 00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:21.960 just of the projection of the spirit, of the eternal 257 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:25.960 manifestation of the spirit, of the hypostasis of the Spirit 258 00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:32.400 explicitly says that, and the hints. Even the Ecumenical statement 259 00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:36.799 of the Vatican Clarification on the Philioque admits that the 260 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.279 Eastern and the Western positions are still in tension on 261 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:52.200 this point. I know what I'm talking about. Secondly, as 262 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:54.400 I said many times, you cannot have a doction of 263 00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:58.680 eternal manifestation without a doction of uncreated energies, because the 264 00:25:58.759 --> 00:26:02.359 eternal manifestation is is the eternal manifestation of the energies. 265 00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:05.559 That's what the thing means. That's what the statement means. 266 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:11.480 It's impossible to believe in eternal manifestation without uncreated energies. 267 00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:15.920 This is precisely where the Roman Catholics confuse the doctrine. 268 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:18.519 This is the whole root of the doctrine. And that's 269 00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:20.160 why I showed you in the second half of the 270 00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:24.160 debate the statement from the Papadacus book about eternal manifestation 271 00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:31.160 in the Palomite Synods. Now, not just the question of 272 00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:35.839 the Roman Catholic doctrines of simplicity in Denzinger, not just 273 00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:43.519 the question of Christology and how one person could become 274 00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:46.039 incarnate an enter into emotive being that the other two 275 00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:48.279 do not. Which again, if if God is an absolutely 276 00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:50.640 simple essence in the way that the Roman Catholics almost 277 00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:54.640 always define it, how does one hypostasis enter into emotive 278 00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:56.640 being that the other two do not. This would would 279 00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:00.720 require change and alteration in the absolute simple essence of 280 00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:03.680 Gotten and as a result, all of their talk of 281 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:08.759 virtual conceptual, nominal logical distinctions would also therefore apply to 282 00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:13.119 the incarnation, and the incarnation would then be virtual, conceptual, logical, 283 00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:16.680 nominal and not real and therefore they would be here 284 00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:19.279 six but they don't want to admit that. But if 285 00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:22.279 they were consistent with their view of God's energies and 286 00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:28.359 God's actions in this world being strictly created, that the 287 00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:35.599 theophanies are created, they would also deny the incarnation. But 288 00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:37.920 the point is that they're not consistent. Point is not 289 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:42.200 do they say correct things at times? Yes, point is inconsistency. 290 00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:45.279 So not only is there a problem in the statements 291 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:48.000 on simplicity itself by equating the attributes in the essence, 292 00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:53.200 which Denzinger does explicitly. Not only is there a problem 293 00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:57.000 with Christology and the uncreated energies relating to his humanity, 294 00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:00.720 denying the uncreated energies which the efficce anity, which the 295 00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:04.480 sixth Council explicitly teaches and says. Not only is there 296 00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:07.200 a question of the philioque and the denial and confusion 297 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:10.599 and not knowing what eternal manifestation is. There's also the 298 00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:12.640 question of the created grace, as we said, which they 299 00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:16.559 say explicitly and dogmatically is a supernatural created accident, which 300 00:28:16.599 --> 00:28:19.920 we deny. There's also the question of the sacraments. You say, 301 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:23.279 the same problems across the board. God God relating to 302 00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:26.279 coming into the world with the Theophanes, God relating to 303 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.359 coming into the world in terms of the incarnation, and 304 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:31.680 then God coming into the world through the Church in 305 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:36.160 our ecclesiology and our sacramentology. In the Realmanchaolic view, if 306 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.880 you really believe in the real presence, then the Eucharist 307 00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:41.440 is the essence of God. That has retarded. Nobody believes 308 00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:43.960 that the Eucharist is the essence of God, except for 309 00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:46.759 roalman Catholics, who say that that is the body, blood, soul, 310 00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.359 and divinity. What is the divinity that's there? Is it 311 00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:53.440 a supernatural created accident or is it God himself? Now 312 00:28:53.559 --> 00:28:56.039 in their praxis, they believe that it is God himself. 313 00:28:56.519 --> 00:28:58.359 But if it's God himself, then it has to be 314 00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:04.240 the essence of God. Does it not? Does exactly? We 315 00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:06.920 would say that that is preposterous. The Eucharist is not 316 00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:09.359 the essence of God. It has not changed into the 317 00:29:09.480 --> 00:29:11.680 essence of God. If you believe in absolute divine simplicity, 318 00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:14.079 then it has to be the essence of God. The 319 00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:21.680 uncreated energies deify and change the elements. That's the Eastern view. 320 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:26.240 Just like in Christology, the uncreated energies defy his humanity, 321 00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:29.039 as John Damascus says in Book three of Defense of 322 00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:41.440 the Orthodox Faith. Secondly, thirdly, Sixthly, not just the sacramental issue, 323 00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:45.200 but the beatific vision. Luke ought to know that the 324 00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:48.559 beatific vision is one dogma in the Romechallic Church. There's 325 00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:51.359 no disputing that. Nobody disputes it. It's dogma. But no 326 00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:54.680 Orthodox theologian believes in the beatific vision. We believe that 327 00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:59.400 that is heretical and nonsensical and stupid. Roman Catholic theologians 328 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:02.000 across the world will say that the light of Mount 329 00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:05.079 Tabor in Matthew seventeen, the transfiguration is a created light. 330 00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:08.599 Because God's absolutely simple essence can't enter in through time 331 00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:11.440 and space. How can that be an uncreated light? Oh 332 00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:13.279 but wait a minute. Scripture actually says they saw the 333 00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:16.279 glory of God. Is the glory of God created? No, 334 00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:20.440 it's not. Jesus says in John seventeen that the glory 335 00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:22.160 that he shared with the Father before the foundation of 336 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:25.039 the world, obviously that's not created. Is what he gives 337 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:31.240 to his saints. That's not created. It's uncreated. There's only 338 00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:34.119 two options. There's no mediating term. This is the absurdity 339 00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:38.400 of the positions that they call us a dial that 340 00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:40.519 we have a diad, that we believe in two gods, 341 00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:45.240 an uncreated and a created God. No, right, we don't 342 00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:47.079 believe that the essence of God is a different God 343 00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:50.480 from the uncreated energies. There's only one God. God is 344 00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:53.240 Holy present in every one of his energies, as Saint 345 00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:56.200 Gregory says. And we don't think in dialectics in terms 346 00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:58.920 of God. If you start to think in dialectics in 347 00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:01.119 terms of God, you will be Amian. You will be 348 00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:05.000 an absolutely simple essence proponent in a Eunomian or Plutonian sense. 349 00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:08.680 And that's why they actually literally have the doctrine of Eunomius. 350 00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:12.440 All right, so let's get into this. So oh, and 351 00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:14.839 they also don't have in their anthropology the doctrine of 352 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:17.680 the noose, which is an outworking of divine simplicity, because 353 00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:20.759 if humanity is made in the image of an absolutely 354 00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:23.359 simple essence, where nature and person are confused in God, 355 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:27.079 nature and person will be confused in humanity, and that's 356 00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:30.559 exactly what happens in Western anthropology. Therefore, they have the 357 00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:32.960 loss of the doctrine of the news. They don't believe 358 00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:38.240 that man is a tripartite creation body soul, noose. They 359 00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:40.839 believe that man is a body and an intellect. They 360 00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:47.599 believe in a diad, a dialectical vision of man, especially 361 00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:51.039 after Augustine, a body and soul. And that's why none 362 00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:54.240 of them, none of them, No Catholic theologians teach the 363 00:31:54.279 --> 00:31:56.880 docrine of the News. Now, all of those doctrines is, 364 00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:59.720 including the recapitulation, which you could throw that in there 365 00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:02.720 as well, have been lost in the West totally. The 366 00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:06.000 West does not believe any of those things. Those are 367 00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:10.400 all demonstrably the result and intimately tied to and connected 368 00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:12.839 to the doctrine of absolute divine simplicity. So when I 369 00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:16.039 say absolute divine simplicity, that is all the stuff that 370 00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:19.599 I mean. I don't just mean statements in Denzinger that 371 00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:24.880 only apply to the essence of God. And if you 372 00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:30.279 don't know, Denzinger is the sources of Catholic dogma. That 373 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:33.920 has always been the argument. If Luke had paid attention 374 00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:36.319 to the many, many, many talks that we've done, he 375 00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:39.519 would see that we're not just listing the only reason 376 00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:42.599 I have the essay that lists the dogmas about absolute 377 00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:45.119 divince simplicity is because that's what that essay is about. 378 00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:48.160 All of the other essays are about the outworkings of 379 00:32:48.279 --> 00:32:53.200 this theology theological error in all these other areas. Don't 380 00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:59.559 you see? There you go now. The scholarly introduction to 381 00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:05.079 this work notes at the beginning that the argumentation from 382 00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:09.799 Saint Gregory against the barleymite is from Saint Maximus. Of 383 00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:12.640 course it is. You've heard me many times quote Saint 384 00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:18.519 Maximus on the uncreated energies. The apologetic, as the introduction notes, 385 00:33:18.680 --> 00:33:22.759 is one against platonism. Yes, thank you for the know 386 00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:27.160 nothings who think that palmism is platonism. The whole apologetic 387 00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.640 is against platonism. You have no idea what you're talking about. 388 00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:37.440 How is this theosis achieved? Do we believe that this theosis, 389 00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:41.000 this deification is achieved, this knowledge of God, this seeing 390 00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:47.720 of God through rational inquiry and ratiocinations. No, the rational 391 00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:52.039 noetic faculties of man are a natural faculty. They are created. 392 00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:56.240 They're good. There's nothing wrong with human logic, human contemplation, 393 00:33:56.680 --> 00:34:02.880 human reasoning. I mean, this book involves reasoning, contemplation, and logic. Obviously, this, 394 00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:07.519 by the way, is another reputation of the piodox the 395 00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:10.159 hyper pious who don't believe that you should debate or 396 00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:13.679 do theology in the sense of arguing with or defending 397 00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:17.119 the faith against the heretics, even though thousands of pages 398 00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:21.280 of church Father's works do this. Many hyper pious, super 399 00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:27.119 pious people. Oh, anyone who debates misses the spirit of Orthodoxy. 400 00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:32.880 Palamism is not about debating. Here's a whole debate from 401 00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:37.760 san Gregory Palamas. Total idiocy, total lunacy, stupidity, and really 402 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:40.519 it's just a cloak for spiritual pride. That's all that is. 403 00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:43.000 That people who say that just want you to think 404 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:49.199 that they're super spiritual. And thus we have to see 405 00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:55.360 then that the achieving of the vision of God is 406 00:34:55.480 --> 00:35:00.440 not a rational exercise. It's not achieved through algorithms, achieved 407 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:04.039 through mastering the church. For others, it's not achieved through 408 00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:10.400 the logic of Aristotelian syllogisms. It's not achieved through mastering 409 00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:18.199 Thomas's Summa's it's not achieved through mastering apologetics. Now, all 410 00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:20.880 of those things can be good things, but those are 411 00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:24.519 all created things. There's no other You can't look to 412 00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:33.320 another created thing to achieve the uncreated. The uncreated transcends 413 00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:38.280 those created things, It uses created things. It deifies its energies, 414 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:42.400 the energies of God. I'm saying his energies, I should say, 415 00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:46.719 to be more precise, his energies, because they are in hypostatic. 416 00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:52.800 They're not abstract. They're always personal. Right, His energies interpenetrate 417 00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:57.159 all of creator reality. They are not blended with creative reality. 418 00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:00.440 Creator reality does not become the Us of God. We 419 00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:04.920 are not pantheists. We reject pantheism. We do not believe 420 00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:09.280 that the energies are abstract, impersonal forces out there. No, 421 00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:15.800 they are personal, and hence they are in hypostatic, in hypostotized. 422 00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:22.679 But the point is that it is only through the 423 00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:28.920 correct prayer life, the correct approach to liturgy, through humbling oneself, 424 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:33.280 through repentance, that one can approach and achieve the truth. 425 00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:37.599 That's the big difference here, right, You cannot attain to 426 00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:41.159 the truth through mere intellect. You have to repent to 427 00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:44.519 attain to the truth. And that's the first starting point. 428 00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:48.960 Is that it begins by kind of rebuking the Barleyamites 429 00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:54.960 for this platonic rational approach. Again, don't think in dialectical terms. 430 00:36:55.000 --> 00:37:00.360 We're not setting reason against God or against faith. We're 431 00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:03.280 not saying that that would be feediism, that would be 432 00:37:03.320 --> 00:37:08.599 the evangelical error that many ameerdos have adopted, especially converts 433 00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:12.079 from evangelicalism, who think that you shouldn't do apologetical Oh well, so, 434 00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:14.679 John Damascu is one of the great theologis of the 435 00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:18.360 church who wrote many, many books on apologetics. Is therefore wrong. 436 00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:22.559 This is to be absurd. It's just ignorance. And most 437 00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:24.239 of the time that again, the people who speak that 438 00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:28.119 way are actually just cloaking their own pride. They feel 439 00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:32.559 that they are superior to doing apologetics, or to defending 440 00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:34.880 the faith, or to any of these things, and so 441 00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:38.599 it gives them a feeling of superiority to you. It's 442 00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:40.639 just a cloak for pride. It it's just a version 443 00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:44.960 of prelist But no, in fact, you cannot achieve these 444 00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:51.639 things through any created energy or created subject, substance, created form. 445 00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:55.760 The grace of God is uncreated and therefore must come 446 00:37:55.840 --> 00:38:00.400 to us through humility, through repentance. It can't be an 447 00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:05.519 intellectual vision of some essence or some abstract form, or 448 00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:09.639 some platonic maze. That you're you're navigating to get to 449 00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:13.440 the monad. So we are not Platonists. The beginning point 450 00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:17.519 of this whole approach is the rejection of Platonism, the 451 00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:21.519 rejection of Hellenism consistently, and that's why in the Triads 452 00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:24.840 the very beginning, Sam Gregory says that Plato and the 453 00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:30.480 Greeks and Platonism are demonic, and some Catholic clown was 454 00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:32.880 trying to argue with me saying that he didn't say that, 455 00:38:33.079 --> 00:38:34.920 and after I showed him all the statements in the 456 00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:37.840 Triads at the beginning where he says that, he just says, well, 457 00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:39.920 that's not what he means. No, that's what he says, 458 00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:42.920 and that's what he means, because even the scholars in 459 00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:47.280 this work tell you that you can't achieve God through 460 00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:52.679 mere reason. And again many people then make the opposite 461 00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:55.559 end mistake of thinking that, oh, well, then human reasoning 462 00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:59.519 is itself evil and bad. No, Jesus assumed human nature 463 00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:04.199 and then includes human will and reasoning. Right, So if 464 00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:06.760 Jesus assumed it and healed it, it's not inherently wrong. 465 00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:11.400 He assumed all of the human faculties proper to human nature, 466 00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:17.000 and thereby deified them and healed them. So you can't 467 00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:23.920 then interject aspects into human nature that are somehow inherently evil. Oh, 468 00:39:24.039 --> 00:39:27.599 human reasoning is therefore evil. No, it's not. It has 469 00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:32.719 to be deified, has been transformed. The creations of God 470 00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:34.239 show his energies. 471 00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:34.760 All right. 472 00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:36.719 This is what Basil says in the letter two thirty four. 473 00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:39.880 We know God through his works in creation. This is 474 00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:42.639 why there is an analogia in Orthodoxy, contrary to what 475 00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:46.480 some heretics say that there's absolutely no analogia. That's not true. 476 00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:50.000 There is, but Barlem is a heretic because he ends 477 00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:55.880 up with the view that there that there's a created divinity. 478 00:39:58.679 --> 00:40:02.880 And therefore, as the scholars in this note that I've 479 00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:10.199 said one hundred thousand times, the simplicity doctrine that Barlem 480 00:40:10.280 --> 00:40:14.159 has is Eunomian. Exactly if you read in the Catholic 481 00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:18.119 Encyclopedia what the Eunomian doctrine of simplicity is, that's exactly 482 00:40:18.199 --> 00:40:23.199 what the Roman Catholics say. Saint Gregor Palma says, the 483 00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:26.519 root of all of these errors is the simplicity doctrine. 484 00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:30.760 And it's not a question of Aristotilian dialectics of substance 485 00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:33.360 and accident that will determine this ultimately. But in fact, 486 00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:37.079 what is revealed ultimately is a question of submitting our 487 00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:41.159 intellect and our human pride in our philosophy to what 488 00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:47.400 Revelation says exactly so absolute divine simplicity. According to Saint Gregory, 489 00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:51.639 Palamas rehashes the errors of Arius, the Massallians who claim 490 00:40:51.719 --> 00:40:56.079 to see the essence of God, Utikeys, the Utaychian Utychians, 491 00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:59.280 and the Eunomians, all the stuff that you've heard me 492 00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:03.360 argue say. Gregory says that we are separate from Hellenism, 493 00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:07.199 and so there is a Jerusalem versus Athens that work here. 494 00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:11.280 Why do I say this because I've spent many, many 495 00:41:11.360 --> 00:41:15.039 years trying to look at this issue. I'm not saying 496 00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:17.119 it's right because I spent many years. I'm just saying 497 00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:19.920 that I know what I'm talking about. The last ten 498 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:23.360 years have been focused on this question of Hellenism, the 499 00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:29.920 Patristic era and the one in the Many, so I 500 00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:33.199 have a sense of what I'm talking about here. Now 501 00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:37.280 we can go, for example, to Dionysius sat Dinysius the 502 00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:40.239 Area Apiciite. He's the first to really take up this 503 00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:44.159 issue after the Apostles, and he says that God is 504 00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:47.840 both one and many, and he transcends one in many. 505 00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:51.679 He says that that does not compromise the unity of 506 00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:54.920 God because we genuinely think that he's both one and many. Right, 507 00:41:57.239 --> 00:42:00.400 we can't predicate of God in any absolute sense, and 508 00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:02.920 so there is a via negativa or the apathetic way, 509 00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:05.679 apathetic theology, meaning that we predicate of God what he 510 00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:09.519 isn't right, But there's also a valid cataphatic approach. 511 00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:09.760 Right. 512 00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:12.679 We can say positive things about God, such as that 513 00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:16.679 God is Father's Son and Holy Spirit, right, because that's 514 00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:20.480 what's revealed. We start our order of theologic from what's revealed. 515 00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:23.159 And this is why Basil, when he's interacting with the 516 00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:26.960 blatonic Hellenic idea, he contrasts himself with this platonic idea 517 00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:31.480 by saying, when we talk about the One, we don't 518 00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:33.599 say that the One is an it. We say that 519 00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:38.440 the One is he, right, and that constantes constitutes personality 520 00:42:38.599 --> 00:42:43.480 personhood hypostasis. When we say that God is he, we 521 00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:46.840 are primarily and principally talking about the person of the Father. 522 00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:50.760 This is what Paul says. We read this every Sunday 523 00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:53.719 and the Thanksgiving and the liturgies for every good gift 524 00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:57.000 comes down from the Father of Lights. That's quoting Paul 525 00:42:57.559 --> 00:42:59.880 the Creed says, we believe in one God, the Father. 526 00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:06.280 So the principle of unity, the source of unity, begins 527 00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:10.000 with the person of the Father, doesn't begin with abstractions 528 00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:12.880 about the essence of God, doesn't begin with abstractions that 529 00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:15.760 come from Hellenism. Now, at this point, when a lot 530 00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:19.360 of people get confused, and they'll kind of they will 531 00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:25.320 kind of veer off into other areas and they'll say, well, 532 00:43:26.119 --> 00:43:31.159 but John uses the term logos. Jay, so clearly right, 533 00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:35.559 think of a logloss. Right, that has to mean the 534 00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:39.039 same thing that the pagan audience has in mind. Otherwise 535 00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:44.039 he couldn't do apologetics. So when John and John Want 536 00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:46.920 says logos, it's the same thing that Marcus Aurelius is 537 00:43:46.960 --> 00:43:51.280 talking about, except it's not You see what you will 538 00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:53.920 begin to see when you really, really, really study in depth. 539 00:43:55.079 --> 00:43:58.320 And I've read countless works on this topic. I'm not 540 00:43:58.360 --> 00:43:59.880 saying that makes me right. I mean I've read the 541 00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:03.239 entire Pelican series, right, all of the all five values 542 00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:06.119 in Pelican, especially when he talks about this. I've read 543 00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:09.679 Jandy Kelly, I've read you name it, I've read the 544 00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:14.960 Patristic era treatments of these issues, and I've read most 545 00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:20.320 of these fathers themselves on these issues. And Jerusalem versus 546 00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:23.159 Athens is kind of at the root of this whole thing. 547 00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:26.400 This is the problem. And this is where we depart 548 00:44:26.519 --> 00:44:31.920 from the Catholic view, the Roman Kelly view, because if 549 00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:34.840 we look at Marcian, Okay, let's start with the early 550 00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:40.320 early heretics, Marcian sees a dialectical tension contrast between the 551 00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:42.880 God of the Old Testament who's mean, and the love 552 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:44.960 God of the New Testament, who's nice. Okay, this is 553 00:44:45.079 --> 00:44:53.000 very common today. Okay, Marcian has a presupposition about either 554 00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:55.840 or right. Either God is the mean God of the 555 00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:57.599 Old Testament or he's this nice God to love in 556 00:44:57.639 --> 00:45:00.760 the New Testament, and those two things and conflict. So 557 00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:02.480 I'm going to go with the nice love God of 558 00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:05.920 the New Testament. Now, this is a stupid approach with theology, 559 00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:09.719 and it of course it ignores many, many clear proofs 560 00:45:09.880 --> 00:45:12.119 of the continuity between the Old and New Testament. And so, 561 00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:16.079 for example, in against heresies, Santor Innaeus has a lengthy 562 00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:19.559 section where he refutes Marcian and he goes to many 563 00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:21.679 many things that prove the continuity of the Old and 564 00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:26.760 New Testament, explicitly refuting Martianism, explicitly refuting Martian's denial of 565 00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:30.559 the historicity of the Old Testament. But that's a beginning 566 00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:33.519 point where we start to see a departure between Jerusalem 567 00:45:33.559 --> 00:45:36.760 and Athens, right, and I'm using those terms loosely there. 568 00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:42.039 That's kind of a shorthand for the long term battle 569 00:45:42.199 --> 00:45:46.679 between the Hellenic ideas. We're not talking about Greek culture, 570 00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:51.159 We're not talking about Greek food. We're talking about Hellenic 571 00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:54.960 philosophic assumptions. That's the key here. So don't misunderstand when 572 00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:57.159 I'm saying Hellenic errors. I'm not talking about Greeks, I'm 573 00:45:57.159 --> 00:46:00.280 not talking about people. I'm not talking about culture, talking 574 00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:03.800 about the specific philosophic ideas. So and then when we 575 00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:07.119 move into these different gnostic groups, we see that many 576 00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:09.400 of the Gnostics, for example, that Aeronea stills with in 577 00:46:09.400 --> 00:46:11.920 the first three hundred pages of his Against Heresies, many 578 00:46:11.960 --> 00:46:16.119 of them were infected with these bizarre Platonic views, Platonic theory. 579 00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:17.559 Many of them, not all of them, but many of them. 580 00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:24.519 When we move into the period of the post Apostolic apologists, Okay, 581 00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:28.639 let's take tation tation was early on a student of 582 00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:31.320 Justin Martner sat Justin Marter, the philosopher as he's called, 583 00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:35.760 who was an apologist who did use philosophy. But what 584 00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:39.440 Tationan did was he got too involved by the Greeks. 585 00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:45.519 He fell into the dialectical philosophy of the Greeks, and 586 00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:50.519 unfortunately Taitan went into heresy. And then as a result 587 00:46:50.599 --> 00:46:55.880 of tait some of his students became I believe they 588 00:46:55.880 --> 00:46:59.639 were the ancretites, right, many of his students became these 589 00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:08.000 not stick Marcianite vegans. Okay, that's listed in John Damascus's heresiology. 590 00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:11.440 It's also i think listed by Saint Apolitics of Rome. 591 00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:14.920 But the point being is that when this happens, that 592 00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:21.920 group gets into either or dialectics of the Greeks Greek philosophy. 593 00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:28.159 Let's look at as we move from these clowns into 594 00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:34.719 people like Celsus or Origin. Okay, Now, Celsus was into 595 00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:41.159 Greek philosophy. Origin was a patristic writer, influential scholar, and 596 00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:43.800 church father. But He's not a saint and he's not Orthodox, 597 00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:47.800 but he was influential and he was very into Platonism. Neoplatonism. 598 00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:51.599 He did not have direct interaction with Plotinus. I'm not 599 00:47:51.679 --> 00:47:54.400 saying that, but I'm saying that there's a lot of similarities, Okay. 600 00:47:55.199 --> 00:47:58.480 And what eventually gets condemned by the Sixth Council explicitly 601 00:47:58.519 --> 00:48:03.960 in Originism is his neoplatonic views, his platonic views. Doesn't 602 00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:08.760 matter what you call it. It's hellenic philosophy. It's denial 603 00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:12.639 of Eden. It's a denial of history, denial of the 604 00:48:12.760 --> 00:48:17.159 eternality of the Sun in terms of his being eternally begotten. 605 00:48:18.519 --> 00:48:23.880 It's a denial of genuine diversity in God at the 606 00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:28.800 expense of the unity. So in the question of the 607 00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:31.400 One and the many, Origin falls over on the side 608 00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:34.239 of the premissy of unity and essence in God. And 609 00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:37.320 so therefore whatever is not the essence of God according 610 00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:40.400 to Origin has to be some lesser metaphysical status. Why, 611 00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:44.960 because of philosophic assumptions, distinction must entail composition or division 612 00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:48.760 if it's a real distinction. You see now again, many, many, 613 00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:52.559 many philosophers, theologians have written on this topic. What I'm 614 00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:54.840 saying is not my own ideas. I'm not making this up. 615 00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:58.639 It's not new to me. David Bradshaw, very famous, has 616 00:48:58.760 --> 00:49:03.800 books on this topic. If we move in then into 617 00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:07.480 the period of Arius Arius and the Eunomians, right, these 618 00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:11.679 two radical groups. They were convinced that if God is one, 619 00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:17.320 anything that is predicated of God or said of God, 620 00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:21.159 this is distinct from Father or from one, has to 621 00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:25.800 be some lesser metaphysical status. The Son of God cannot 622 00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:29.320 be homousus of the same nature or essence, because that 623 00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:34.039 would imply that there's parts, there's two Gods, et cetera, 624 00:49:34.039 --> 00:49:36.920 et cetera. This is the stuff that you hear. Arians 625 00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:44.960 today still argue this is another dialectical Hellenistic idea. Now, 626 00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:48.559 the Eunomians were more radical. They said, now we can 627 00:49:48.679 --> 00:49:50.639 actually know the essence of God, and we can make 628 00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:53.320 positive predications about the essence of God. And that's why 629 00:49:54.199 --> 00:49:56.320 the essence of God is the Father then, and that 630 00:49:56.480 --> 00:50:00.119 is defined. It's a definitional notion here. It is to 631 00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:05.960 find as ungenerate, unoriginate, is what Eunomias said. And so 632 00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:11.800 Saint Basil and Saint Gregor Nissa launched into gigantic refutations 633 00:50:13.159 --> 00:50:18.599 of Eunomius, and guess what they used to refute Eunomius. 634 00:50:20.199 --> 00:50:24.400 Can you guess what distinction they used? They used the 635 00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:29.480 essence energy distinction they refuteus. If that distinction is not real, 636 00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:34.480 the entire argument against Eunomius collapses. This is so stupid 637 00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:37.519 that there is nothing more low iq than the people 638 00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:39.840 who think that this is the same doctrine as Rome 639 00:50:39.880 --> 00:50:45.079 Catholsis that that Palamas and Gregory and Basil they're not 640 00:50:45.159 --> 00:50:50.880 teaching anything different, then the whole argument against Eunomius would collapse. 641 00:50:55.400 --> 00:50:58.519 If we move into the period of Nestorius and Saint 642 00:50:58.599 --> 00:51:06.400 Cyril okay ephesis, another Christological period. If you read mcguckin's book, 643 00:51:06.679 --> 00:51:09.119 if you read Saint Cyril's own writings, what you start 644 00:51:09.159 --> 00:51:12.000 to see is that Nestorius doesn't see how it's possible 645 00:51:12.079 --> 00:51:16.880 that there's not some tension between divinity and humanity. There's 646 00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:20.360 some tension. So there's a tunis here that is some 647 00:51:20.599 --> 00:51:23.559 kind of moral conjunction, moral union between the son of 648 00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:26.679 God and a human person. In Jesus of Nazareth, they've 649 00:51:26.719 --> 00:51:29.679 got some kind of moral union here, but there's not 650 00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:34.039 one divine person, the subject of all the incarnate actions, 651 00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:36.880 is not the second person of the Godhead, as Saint 652 00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:45.119 Cyril said, it's at times there's this divine Jesus that's 653 00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:48.440 shining through, and at other times it's this man Jesus 654 00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:52.039 of Nazareth. You see, this is another version of arianism. 655 00:51:52.119 --> 00:51:54.519 It's not exactly the same as arianism, but it's another 656 00:51:54.639 --> 00:51:58.119 version of arianism, and it's based on the same dialectics. 657 00:51:58.360 --> 00:52:01.480 There's an oppit there's some natural tension and opposition between 658 00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:09.519 divinity and humanity in Christ. This same problem will occupy 659 00:52:09.639 --> 00:52:13.360 the Church for the next several centuries, all the way 660 00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:16.559 up into the Fifth and Six Councils, which deal with 661 00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:26.400 the two natures in Christ. The chief argumentation that Saint 662 00:52:26.480 --> 00:52:31.559 Maximus deals with is against the Monothelites, who are people 663 00:52:31.559 --> 00:52:34.920 who are essentially kind of a continuation of Monophysites, who 664 00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:38.039 said that, well, if there's only a unity in Christ, 665 00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:41.039 there's only basically this blended kind of thing in Christ. 666 00:52:41.159 --> 00:52:44.880 When he becomes incarnate, a divine human hybrid, then there 667 00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:48.079 has to be one action or energy in Christ. And 668 00:52:48.199 --> 00:52:50.159 so what Saint Maximus does is that he goes to 669 00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:53.719 great lengths, especially in the disputation with Paris to prove 670 00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:56.880 that the Monothelites are wrong and that Christ has two 671 00:52:56.960 --> 00:52:59.760 wills and two energies because energy is a property. Are 672 00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:03.800 faculty of nature? Right? Say John Damascus covers this in 673 00:53:03.880 --> 00:53:07.679 book three very clearly as he launches into a rehearsing 674 00:53:08.199 --> 00:53:11.960 of the Christological controversies. And what I'm saying is that, 675 00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:15.719 once again, right when he's arguing with Pearis, he accuses 676 00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:19.760 Pearis of setting up dialectical tensions between the will of 677 00:53:19.880 --> 00:53:22.960 man and the will of God, between Christ's human will 678 00:53:23.159 --> 00:53:25.760 and his divine will, between Christ's human energy and his 679 00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:28.840 divine energy. He says he thinks these things are intention 680 00:53:29.639 --> 00:53:31.559 and the key is to understand going all the way 681 00:53:31.599 --> 00:53:34.920 back to Cyril and the way Cyril explains it against Nestorias, 682 00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:37.079 and the way that the Fifth and Six Councils explain it, 683 00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:41.719 which is that the humanity of Christ is deified by 684 00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:46.800 the uncreated energies of Christ legitimately raised, but it still 685 00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:52.000 retains its natural, created properties. Christ's humanity never loses its 686 00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:55.960 created status. It will always and forever be created. However, 687 00:53:56.559 --> 00:54:00.840 it's not just created and mortal, it is raised. It defied, right, 688 00:54:01.280 --> 00:54:06.119 it participates in that uncreated energy yet still retains its 689 00:54:06.159 --> 00:54:10.599 creative property. That's only possible, it's only possible to believe 690 00:54:10.679 --> 00:54:15.760 that and accept that if you reject Hellenic either or dialectics. 691 00:54:16.360 --> 00:54:20.719 That's the key here. That is the overriding, consistent principle 692 00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:26.039 that we want to understand that we reject, and when 693 00:54:26.119 --> 00:54:28.679 we start to grasp that, that's when we start to see. 694 00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:32.239 There's so many of these theological problems, controversies, and debates 695 00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:38.079 center around dialectical either or tensions. Now, sometimes there is 696 00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:42.639 an either or, right, there's not always a middle ground. 697 00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:45.079 This is a kind of fallacy, right, there's not always 698 00:54:45.159 --> 00:54:49.599 some middle term as if you know, well, for example 699 00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:56.280 theism and atheism, there's no middle ground there. So sometimes 700 00:54:56.320 --> 00:54:59.239 there is an either or. But in a lot of 701 00:54:59.320 --> 00:55:06.719 the theological controversies over the centuries Jerusalem versus Athens, there 702 00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:15.400 is a transcending of either or dialectics. And Saint Gregor 703 00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:18.559 Palamas is kind of the culmination, you could say, because 704 00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:23.719 certainly there's disputes and arguments after Saint Gregory. But if 705 00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:30.519 you follow the logic from Niceea through Ephesis to the 706 00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:34.239 Sixth Council with the Monothy lites all the way up 707 00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:37.920 through to Saint Gregory's day. You will see a logical 708 00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:41.679 train of the development of this theology. And by development, 709 00:55:41.719 --> 00:55:44.400 I don't mean the Roman Catholic conception of development, where 710 00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:50.679 it's evolving. In our review, the development is just a 711 00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:54.880 restatement or a redefining, an explication of what's already there. Right, 712 00:55:55.280 --> 00:55:58.760 So we quite literally say that we're teaching the exact 713 00:55:58.800 --> 00:56:02.320 same thing that that to St. Dionysia's there opic I said, 714 00:56:04.039 --> 00:56:09.480 we quite literally believe that Basil explicates the same faith 715 00:56:10.119 --> 00:56:17.639 as Saint Paul. And that's why it is correct, as 716 00:56:17.719 --> 00:56:20.519 Saint Maximus says, to understand that one thing that the 717 00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:23.079 Fall did right, I mean it did a lot of 718 00:56:23.119 --> 00:56:27.800 different things right. The fall man introduced corruption, decay, metaphysically, 719 00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:29.800 morally right, there's all these problems the fault. But one 720 00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:31.960 thing that it did philosophically speaking, you could say it 721 00:56:32.039 --> 00:56:34.639 was introduced to these dialectics where people think that there's 722 00:56:35.320 --> 00:56:40.280 hardcore either ores intention at all times, and it's not 723 00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:44.920 always the case. So the great irony, and this was 724 00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:47.199 a misunderstanding that I had for a long time about 725 00:56:47.239 --> 00:56:50.559 orthodoxy that I had to kind of finally come out 726 00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:54.280 of and the key piece of evidence for me in 727 00:56:54.440 --> 00:56:57.840 being convinced that Orthodoxy was not just Helenism and neoplatonism 728 00:56:58.800 --> 00:57:02.760 was the statement of Basil where he says, for us, 729 00:57:03.159 --> 00:57:06.400 the one is a he, not an it. That's when 730 00:57:06.440 --> 00:57:10.079 it finally clicked for me that I understood. Now I 731 00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:15.119 see why the church fathers are consistently having to battle, 732 00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:18.360 whether it's Marcian or whether it's Arius, or whether it's 733 00:57:18.920 --> 00:57:21.800 the Massalians, or whether it's Eunomius, or whether it's Astorius, 734 00:57:22.119 --> 00:57:27.760 or whether it's Purists, the Monothelites, Diascorus. They're consistently having 735 00:57:27.800 --> 00:57:32.239 to battle with either or dialectics. And once you understand that, 736 00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:36.039 it's very obvious. You see it. You see how Arius 737 00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:48.119 says that if God is simple and the Father is God, 738 00:57:50.199 --> 00:57:53.760 then if he eternally generates, that cause has to be 739 00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:57.239 a created cause, because it would compromise the simplicity of God, 740 00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:02.920 he says, and Athanasius refutes him by saying that the 741 00:58:03.079 --> 00:58:08.159 Son is an eternally generated son. He's not temporarily generated. 742 00:58:08.199 --> 00:58:11.639 He's not the first thing that God created. He's eternally generated, 743 00:58:11.800 --> 00:58:14.599 and therefore he is not a creature. He shares the 744 00:58:14.679 --> 00:58:18.880 same essence of the Father. Is he the direct offspring 745 00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:21.280 of the Father's nature? Yes, he is right. And the 746 00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:24.000 romancatoss trying to say, oh, that means divine, absolutely vine simplicity. 747 00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:30.199 Then no, he's the direct generation of the Father's nature. 748 00:58:30.440 --> 00:58:34.320 You see, Athanasius is not setting the essence of gods 749 00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:38.239 some abstract, preeminent category that we start with. He starts 750 00:58:38.280 --> 00:58:41.039 with the Father. And that's why Hebrews says that he 751 00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:46.360 is the direct image and icon of the Father. Now, 752 00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:50.719 so dialectics then is a consistent problem. And when you 753 00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:53.880 read through many of these Church fathers and many of 754 00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:56.599 the analyzes of the Church fathers, you will begin to 755 00:58:56.679 --> 00:59:00.599 see that as very clearly evident. The heretics will constantly 756 00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:04.880 think that there's only either ores right, either God is 757 00:59:04.920 --> 00:59:07.320 one or he's many. He can't be one in many. 758 00:59:11.079 --> 00:59:13.880 Either God is absolutely simple or he's composed of parts. 759 00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:21.920 He can't have distinction without division. You see. Now, for us, 760 00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:25.960 as we said, there are multiple Palamite synods after these 761 00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:30.119 disputes up into the fourteenth century, and these are the 762 00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:33.679 Palamite synods. They're just Orthodox synods, and they're received as 763 00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:35.719 normative as I will show you in a moment we 764 00:59:35.880 --> 00:59:41.840 sent many churches still sing this, and therefore Palamism is 765 00:59:41.960 --> 00:59:45.000 nothing more than Orthodoxy. That's why the entire Orthodox world, 766 00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:49.119 except for certain ecumenists who we will show are incorrect, 767 00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:54.199 believes in the essen synergy distinction. Right, This is normative 768 00:59:54.280 --> 00:59:57.360 in Orthodoxy. Will you find an Orthodox person at times 769 00:59:57.400 --> 01:00:00.960 who's confused on this? Sure, but everybody body knows what 770 01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:04.840 our liturgy says. Everybody knows what our catechisms say. Everybody 771 01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:07.719 knows that across the world, the Orthodox Church believes in 772 01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:10.559 a real essence energy distinction. Now, it doesn't matter how 773 01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:15.199 many Fordom acumenists funded by giant foundations, all proven one 774 01:00:15.280 --> 01:00:17.599 hundred percent proven. Now tries to say that there's no 775 01:00:17.679 --> 01:00:21.440 distinction between essence and energy, and that Gregor Palamas doesn't 776 01:00:21.440 --> 01:00:23.480 believe in a real distinction. Of course he does. That's 777 01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:26.760 what this whole debate is predicated on. They're liars, they're 778 01:00:26.840 --> 01:00:29.199 lying because they're paid to lie. They're not really Orthodox, 779 01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:32.800 and it's all come out that they're paid by foundations 780 01:00:32.840 --> 01:00:38.039 to promote this stuff. The Jesuit University of Fordham. Everything 781 01:00:38.079 --> 01:00:40.840 that I said ten years ago about this kind of 782 01:00:40.840 --> 01:00:48.800 stuff has all been proven true. The debate at times 783 01:00:48.920 --> 01:00:53.280 does center on the classical tradition, so that is treated 784 01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:57.519 of in the scholarly introduction, and they do note that 785 01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:00.719 the Saint Gregor Palamas is not completely opposed to classical 786 01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:05.760 education or the classical tradition. Right, So let's not mistake 787 01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:09.320 what I'm saying for like Baptist type views or like 788 01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:15.559 a independent landmark fundamentalist Baptist church like Jerusalem versus Aftertens. 789 01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:19.239 That means everything that's Greek, and everything that's other church fathers, 790 01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:22.719 and all philosophy his other devil, No, no, no, no, 791 01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:26.360 he Saint Gregory Palamas was trained in Aristotilian logic. He 792 01:01:26.559 --> 01:01:30.920 was trained in Aristotle. Saint John Damascus was trained in Aristotle. Right, 793 01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:33.920 read David Bradshaw's Aristotle East and West. We don't have 794 01:01:33.960 --> 01:01:36.079 a problem with Aristotle. We have a problem with the 795 01:01:36.239 --> 01:01:41.199 Western usage of Aristotle. Indeed, throughout the Fount of Knowledge. 796 01:01:41.800 --> 01:01:44.599 As I've said, like I lectured on the whole book 797 01:01:44.719 --> 01:01:47.719 four or five years ago, Mathema ignored all this. Of course, 798 01:01:50.519 --> 01:01:53.000 all of those Aristotlian categories are used in the proper 799 01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:55.039 way in Saint John Demascus, and they're used in a 800 01:01:55.159 --> 01:02:05.480 different way by quitnas. Now, when we come to the 801 01:02:05.599 --> 01:02:12.519 work itself, understand that this is after the period of 802 01:02:12.559 --> 01:02:14.519 the Tria, so he's already written the Triads. I believe 803 01:02:14.559 --> 01:02:16.280 I'm right about that. I go out from memory, and 804 01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:18.119 I did a talk on the Triads a year ago, 805 01:02:18.320 --> 01:02:20.320 so you can go listen to that talk. This is 806 01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:26.199 complementary to that talk. And it begins by pointing out 807 01:02:26.320 --> 01:02:32.679 that Barleam is a heretic. Barley might views are heretical. 808 01:02:33.119 --> 01:02:38.239 That's how the book begins. Barlem begins his debate by saying, 809 01:02:38.599 --> 01:02:42.840 God's actions are identical to his essence. Did you hear 810 01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:52.280 me exactly what Aquinas says? Not identical in a figurative sense, 811 01:02:53.320 --> 01:03:00.679 identical in an identical literal sense, actus purist. He is 812 01:03:01.039 --> 01:03:07.360 his essence. He is identical to his essence. His actions 813 01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:08.920 are identical to he. 814 01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:10.840 And to his essence. 815 01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:16.840 And Barley, beginning the barley mighte says, let's make sure 816 01:03:16.920 --> 01:03:22.639 that we can support our views from the Church fathers. 817 01:03:22.760 --> 01:03:24.880 You see, because in the Triads, the majority of the 818 01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:28.079 argument in the Triads is biblical. And this was another 819 01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:30.360 thing that impressed me was that throughout the Triads it's 820 01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:34.679 consistently arguing from the Bible. Now in this work, we're 821 01:03:34.760 --> 01:03:37.159 moving on and there's going to be biblical references still. 822 01:03:37.199 --> 01:03:40.360 But here the debate begins by the barley might saying 823 01:03:40.880 --> 01:03:43.400 you better prove your view from the Church fathers and 824 01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:49.639 from tradition, and Saint Gregory responds by saying, okay, but 825 01:03:49.840 --> 01:03:52.239 let's keep in mind that every heretic believes his view 826 01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:55.920 is proven by the Church fathers. This is the everybody says, 827 01:03:56.000 --> 01:03:59.119 I am in, I am in the true succession of 828 01:03:59.199 --> 01:04:01.719 the of the Fathers and the great theologians of the 829 01:04:01.840 --> 01:04:06.559 ancient Church. But just claiming that is really meaningless. We 830 01:04:06.679 --> 01:04:10.519 have to actually demonstrate that. So it begins by talking 831 01:04:10.559 --> 01:04:16.039 about foreknowledge. Okay, and bar excuse me. Pelama says, foreknowledge 832 01:04:16.400 --> 01:04:19.440 is an energy of God. And if we just stop 833 01:04:19.519 --> 01:04:23.480 for a moment and think about the stupidity of identifying 834 01:04:23.599 --> 01:04:26.039 the essence of God with foreknowledge and with the will 835 01:04:26.119 --> 01:04:28.440 of God, then we would come to see that there 836 01:04:28.519 --> 01:04:32.360 have to be real distinctions in God. Okay, God foreknowing 837 01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:39.239 event an event is obviously not identical to God's will obviously, 838 01:04:41.639 --> 01:04:45.920 and what argument do you constantly hear me? Make right? 839 01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:48.559 What I usually say, I say, let's look at Christology, 840 01:04:48.760 --> 01:04:53.000 don't I what's the first thing he goes to Christology, 841 01:04:53.599 --> 01:04:57.119 he says, the clearest way to see that there's a 842 01:04:57.199 --> 01:05:01.239 distinction between the energies in God, his actions, and what 843 01:05:01.400 --> 01:05:04.360 he is in himself. His inner essence is in the 844 01:05:04.440 --> 01:05:07.320 person of Christ incarnate, because this is God in time 845 01:05:07.360 --> 01:05:14.119 and space, walking around right doing things. And Christology is 846 01:05:14.199 --> 01:05:17.159 key because it shows us that he possesses two wills 847 01:05:17.599 --> 01:05:21.000 and two energies. And if we do believe that his 848 01:05:21.199 --> 01:05:24.199 actions within time and space are real, then clearly those 849 01:05:24.280 --> 01:05:28.760 actions are different. His walking on water is not the 850 01:05:28.840 --> 01:05:32.679 same thing as his creating the world. In fact, John 851 01:05:32.719 --> 01:05:35.800 Damascus says very clearly in book three that that's an 852 01:05:35.960 --> 01:05:39.800 action proper to his divine power. All the miracles are, 853 01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:42.039 of course they are. Walking on water is not proper 854 01:05:42.079 --> 01:05:47.079 to human nature. It's an action that shows that demonstrates 855 01:05:47.159 --> 01:05:53.280 divine power. Is the action of walking on water the 856 01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:56.239 same as the action of creating the world, and also 857 01:05:56.360 --> 01:05:59.679 the same as the destruction of the world, all actions 858 01:05:59.719 --> 01:06:03.320 of God God. Admittedly, of course not that would be ridiculous. 859 01:06:04.119 --> 01:06:06.599 That's why Basil says in letter two thirty four, if 860 01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:08.960 you add up all these attributes and say they're identical, 861 01:06:09.480 --> 01:06:11.760 and that they're identical to the essence of God. You're 862 01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:17.280 a fool. He begins the debate with that. He begins 863 01:06:17.320 --> 01:06:21.639 the debate by saying that Saint John Damascus says that 864 01:06:21.800 --> 01:06:27.039 the energies of God enter into history. He begins with 865 01:06:27.119 --> 01:06:30.000 book one of defensive Orthodoxist How many times have I 866 01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:35.800 begun with that? What's the next clearest argument? What does 867 01:06:35.840 --> 01:06:39.039 he move to? He moves to the uncreated light in 868 01:06:39.119 --> 01:06:43.800 Matthew seventeen, the glory of God shining within creation, the 869 01:06:43.880 --> 01:06:47.599 glory of God around Christ and the transfiguration, the light 870 01:06:47.719 --> 01:06:50.679 of God in the face of Saint Stephen, the light 871 01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:54.679 of God that shines upon Paul when he's converted. This 872 01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:57.119 is the same grace that the saints get. It's the 873 01:06:57.199 --> 01:07:00.800 same grace that's uncreated. It does enter into time and space, 874 01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:07.559 just like the Theophanes did. And so when Joshua, when Gideon, 875 01:07:08.199 --> 01:07:14.039 when Abraham worship these Theophanes that manifest within time and space. 876 01:07:14.559 --> 01:07:19.800 Are they worshiping creatures? No, they're not worshiping holograms. They're 877 01:07:19.840 --> 01:07:24.920 not worshiping created phantasms. They're not worshiping created analogs, they're 878 01:07:24.960 --> 01:07:31.079 worshiping the preincarnate logos. So just as it's possible for 879 01:07:31.159 --> 01:07:35.920 the logos to be incarnate, excuse me, preincarnate. When he 880 01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:38.599 manifests as the Angel of the Lord, and the Old 881 01:07:38.639 --> 01:07:41.760 Testament saints bow down and worship, and he's given the 882 01:07:41.840 --> 01:07:46.480 name Lord Yahweh. Just as he's able to enter into 883 01:07:46.559 --> 01:07:53.599 time and space, so also can he become incarnate, and 884 01:07:53.760 --> 01:07:58.079 so also can the uncreated light that is his divine 885 01:07:58.119 --> 01:08:04.920 glory manifest and the transfiguration. Now, all of Roman Catholicism 886 01:08:06.119 --> 01:08:10.639 says that the light that manifests in Matthew seventeen is created, 887 01:08:11.320 --> 01:08:13.480 I have never heard. So I don't know where the 888 01:08:13.599 --> 01:08:15.440 uniates or any of that. Maybe they could come up 889 01:08:15.480 --> 01:08:17.720 with something. I've never heard it because I've never heard 890 01:08:18.239 --> 01:08:22.760 a Roman Catholic say that that is uncreated light, because 891 01:08:22.800 --> 01:08:26.680 that would deny the whole of the analogianis and the 892 01:08:27.560 --> 01:08:30.119 causal view of how God relates to the world. In 893 01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:36.000 everything I've ever seen in Romanism, I have never seen 894 01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:40.880 a Roman theologian say that Matthew seventeen is the actual 895 01:08:41.039 --> 01:08:45.560 uncreated light of God entering into time and space manifesting 896 01:08:45.640 --> 01:08:51.199 for the apostles to see, and yet that's what happens. Now, 897 01:08:51.319 --> 01:08:55.239 maybe there's some uniate theologian out there in some university 898 01:08:55.319 --> 01:08:59.520 somewhere who thinks that it is that does not translate 899 01:08:59.560 --> 01:09:03.640 into the possibility of that existing in Roman Catholic dogma. 900 01:09:09.439 --> 01:09:11.439 Let me make another point on that too, which is 901 01:09:11.439 --> 01:09:13.399 a little more practical, but I think is still a 902 01:09:14.399 --> 01:09:18.399 persuasive argument, which is that, let's say that it's true 903 01:09:20.479 --> 01:09:23.520 that ninety nine point nine percent of the Romancolic Church 904 01:09:23.600 --> 01:09:25.800 does not believe that, and zero point one percent of 905 01:09:25.840 --> 01:09:30.399 the Romancolic Church does hold that, and somehow that's legitimately true, 906 01:09:31.039 --> 01:09:33.960 and you can somehow hold that opinion within Roman Catholism, 907 01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:35.760 which you can. But let's say for them, you say 908 01:09:35.760 --> 01:09:37.920 the argument that you can. What does it say for 909 01:09:38.039 --> 01:09:42.279 a church that has two mutually exclusive positions, and the 910 01:09:42.399 --> 01:09:46.279 supposedly true Church has for many, many, many centuries, ninety 911 01:09:46.359 --> 01:09:49.279 nine point nine percent of it held that that light 912 01:09:49.439 --> 01:09:53.199 is created, but point one percent has actually been correct, 913 01:09:54.039 --> 01:09:58.079 and nobody else in this church knows it. That's ridiculous, 914 01:09:58.239 --> 01:10:03.760 that's stupid. So you are the Apostolic Church and zero 915 01:10:03.800 --> 01:10:09.319 point one percent actually knows this very basic doctrine. But 916 01:10:09.439 --> 01:10:12.920 the rest of the whole thing has bumbled on this 917 01:10:13.119 --> 01:10:17.439 for centuries. That's absurd. What's more likely the case, right, 918 01:10:17.800 --> 01:10:22.199 that that it's just two different doctrines, Right, That's what 919 01:10:22.359 --> 01:10:28.199 this whole debate is predicated on. Now, somebody them said, well, 920 01:10:28.319 --> 01:10:32.800 but Barleam isn't really representative of the Roman Catholic position. 921 01:10:33.000 --> 01:10:35.840 Yes he is. He's perfectly representative of the of the 922 01:10:36.039 --> 01:10:39.960 Roman Catholic position because he became a Catholic bishop, Roman 923 01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:44.039 Catholic and eventually the views that he holds are one 924 01:10:44.399 --> 01:10:47.079 percent across the board what you find in any standard 925 01:10:47.159 --> 01:10:53.640 Roman Catholic dogmatic manual. Now he moves then to an 926 01:10:53.720 --> 01:10:58.439 argument that I've made many times, what Roman Catholic would 927 01:10:58.479 --> 01:11:02.680 dare say the glory of God is created. In John seventeen, 928 01:11:02.880 --> 01:11:06.520 we have Jesus launching into an extensive discussion the high 929 01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:10.039 priestly prayer about the glory of God that he possessed 930 01:11:10.079 --> 01:11:11.840 with the Father before the foundation of the world, that 931 01:11:11.880 --> 01:11:13.760 he shared in common with the Father, and the spirit 932 01:11:14.159 --> 01:11:18.920 that he will give to the apostles. And he clearly 933 01:11:19.119 --> 01:11:22.439 between verses one to three and then to verse twenty 934 01:11:23.479 --> 01:11:26.800 says that it's the same glory. It's not a created 935 01:11:26.800 --> 01:11:29.119 analog that he's going to give us. It's not a 936 01:11:29.279 --> 01:11:32.319 supernatural creature that he's going to give us. The same 937 01:11:32.640 --> 01:11:37.560 glory that he possessed with the Father before the foundation 938 01:11:37.600 --> 01:11:39.840 of the world, he says, will be given to us 939 01:11:40.560 --> 01:11:45.760 and to the apostles. Is that a creature? Of course, 940 01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:50.880 it isn't. No more than the light of the transfiguration 941 01:11:51.600 --> 01:11:54.720 itself is a creature. It is the uncreated light that 942 01:11:54.800 --> 01:11:57.479 Paul talks about when he says God dwells an unapproachable 943 01:11:57.600 --> 01:12:09.600 light to Timothy, if grace is created and grace is Christ, 944 01:12:10.039 --> 01:12:12.359 Christ is, in other words, if we're getting what Christ had, 945 01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:18.479 If the grace that we're getting is created, it's a 946 01:12:18.520 --> 01:12:23.680 supernatural creation, and the glory that Christ has is a 947 01:12:23.720 --> 01:12:31.680 supernatural creation, then Christ is a creation exactly. And that's 948 01:12:31.680 --> 01:12:38.960 how the argument falls into arianism. Barleam says, well, look, 949 01:12:39.079 --> 01:12:43.600 the Saints, though, reply to you. This is every Roman Catholic. 950 01:12:44.399 --> 01:12:47.439 Isn't this hilarious that every interaction that you have with 951 01:12:47.600 --> 01:12:50.079 Roman Catholics and Thomas on this point, and Protestants too. 952 01:12:50.159 --> 01:12:53.199 Let's include the Protestants have the same view. Let's not 953 01:12:53.439 --> 01:12:57.399 make this just about Roman Catholics, because the Protestants, ninety 954 01:12:57.439 --> 01:13:00.279 nine point nine percent of all Protestants adhere to the 955 01:13:00.399 --> 01:13:04.359 Western doctrine of absolute devine simplicity across the board in 956 01:13:04.479 --> 01:13:08.199 all of their theologies, whether it's Charles Hodge or Burkhoff 957 01:13:08.359 --> 01:13:13.520 or BABVNC or Calvin or Luther, they all believe in 958 01:13:14.159 --> 01:13:17.039 absolute divine simplicity in this same way all the way 959 01:13:17.119 --> 01:13:21.600 up into the Puritans. They say the same things. And 960 01:13:21.760 --> 01:13:24.000 what's the next reply that you get from every single 961 01:13:24.079 --> 01:13:26.840 tomust Ah? But you see, God is one and simple, 962 01:13:26.960 --> 01:13:28.880 and the Church fathers teach that God is one and simple, 963 01:13:28.920 --> 01:13:32.680 and therefore you making this distinction, you make God composed. 964 01:13:36.359 --> 01:13:39.319 Of course, we believe God is one and simple, but 965 01:13:39.439 --> 01:13:42.079 we don't believe that the simplicity and unity of God 966 01:13:42.399 --> 01:13:45.079 is compromised by there being a real distinction between the 967 01:13:45.119 --> 01:13:47.520 person's do we of course not right, Father, Son, and 968 01:13:47.640 --> 01:13:50.880 Spirit are really and truly distinct from or another. They're 969 01:13:50.880 --> 01:13:53.439 not modes or masks that God has. Right, that would 970 01:13:53.439 --> 01:13:57.239 be modalism, that would be Sabellianism. We don't believe that 971 01:13:57.279 --> 01:14:00.159 that was rejected in the Church. Right, So, when, for example, 972 01:14:00.159 --> 01:14:02.880 Athanasius argues with the arians. He points out that the 973 01:14:03.720 --> 01:14:07.479 action of God generating the Son is eternal and natural. 974 01:14:08.920 --> 01:14:13.119 It's therefore divine. Right, It's not caused in the sense 975 01:14:13.159 --> 01:14:16.439 of temporal causes. It's an eternal cause, where the Father 976 01:14:16.600 --> 01:14:21.920 eternally generates the son. There was no point at time 977 01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:25.319 in which the son was not it's an eternal generation. 978 01:14:28.279 --> 01:14:33.840 That eternal generation suggests a real distinction. Right. The Father 979 01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:38.880 is the unriginal cause, the son, the eternal generated son. 980 01:14:41.600 --> 01:14:47.079 That eternal action of generating, which Athanasius does say is 981 01:14:47.079 --> 01:14:53.119 an action, is distinct from any action of creating or 982 01:14:54.079 --> 01:14:59.279 contemplating the creation the logi the exemplars. Right, the son, 983 01:14:59.720 --> 01:15:02.479 the eternally generated son, is not identical to either of 984 01:15:02.520 --> 01:15:06.960 those things. Right, But it is an eternal movement of 985 01:15:07.079 --> 01:15:13.800 the Father generating the son. Cause suggests movement, But it's 986 01:15:13.880 --> 01:15:19.399 not a movement. That's like the energy that goes into 987 01:15:19.479 --> 01:15:24.840 creating the world. Therefore, there's a natural movement, a natural, 988 01:15:24.920 --> 01:15:28.560 eternal begetting of the Father's nature, which is the son. 989 01:15:29.319 --> 01:15:33.039 And therefore, because it's eternal, because he's of the Father's nature, 990 01:15:33.279 --> 01:15:38.439 he's absolutely fully divine. He's not any lesser ontological metaphysical status. 991 01:15:38.479 --> 01:15:44.039 Than the Father, But that eternal generation is an action 992 01:15:44.199 --> 01:15:47.960 that's distinct from the action of creating the world, right, 993 01:15:48.199 --> 01:15:50.039 because the world comes to be at a point in time. 994 01:15:50.560 --> 01:15:53.560 If you don't believe in a distinction between essence and energy, 995 01:15:55.159 --> 01:15:58.600 and you believe in divine simplicity, then the son is 996 01:15:58.600 --> 01:16:02.600 a creature. The action of creator, of generating the sun 997 01:16:04.000 --> 01:16:10.039 is like the action of creating the world. What distinguishes 998 01:16:10.119 --> 01:16:14.680 eternally generating from creating in time and space? Now, if 999 01:16:14.720 --> 01:16:16.680 you'd have the base with Muslims, they will tell you 1000 01:16:16.760 --> 01:16:19.319 that God is eternally a creator, and because he's eternally 1001 01:16:19.359 --> 01:16:24.840 a creator, the Son is a creature. There's no eternal logos. 1002 01:16:27.920 --> 01:16:30.039 I'm saying, there's no eternal logos. That's the second person 1003 01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:33.439 of the God had In Islamic theology. Islama theology has 1004 01:16:33.479 --> 01:16:36.960 this confusing thing about the Koran being an eternal word. 1005 01:16:37.359 --> 01:16:40.640 Whatever point being is that they don't believe in the trinity, right, 1006 01:16:41.079 --> 01:16:43.079 And one of the reasons they don't is because they 1007 01:16:43.119 --> 01:16:48.359 don't have a problem identifying God being creator, with God 1008 01:16:48.439 --> 01:16:52.880 being Father and with the essence. Right, So it's the 1009 01:16:53.159 --> 01:16:56.760 it's essential to God to be a creator, and if 1010 01:16:56.800 --> 01:16:59.439 it's essential to God to be a creator, and God's 1011 01:16:59.520 --> 01:17:05.439 essence is eternal, and God is eternally a creator. That's 1012 01:17:05.479 --> 01:17:11.399 what the Aryans argued. And since fatherhood is essential, being 1013 01:17:11.520 --> 01:17:15.960 unoriginal is essential. Anything other is a work of God, 1014 01:17:17.319 --> 01:17:19.720 and if anything else is a work of God, it's 1015 01:17:19.840 --> 01:17:27.079 distinct from that one essence, that one fatherhood, that one creator. Therefore, 1016 01:17:27.479 --> 01:17:30.199 the Son is the first creation of God. He's the 1017 01:17:30.279 --> 01:17:32.600 first work of God. And then through that Son he 1018 01:17:32.680 --> 01:17:37.800 created the world. That's the Aryan view. But you see, 1019 01:17:38.079 --> 01:17:42.279 we have to make a distinction between the eternal generation 1020 01:17:42.359 --> 01:17:47.000 of the son and that action and the action of 1021 01:17:47.079 --> 01:17:52.680 creating the world the essence in distinction. That's one example 1022 01:17:52.760 --> 01:17:56.439 of that. You say, well, Jay, where is this? This 1023 01:17:56.640 --> 01:18:00.640 is proven to be the argument that Athenatianus makes against 1024 01:18:00.640 --> 01:18:02.720 the Arians. If you read the Father of Fluorovsky essay, 1025 01:18:03.560 --> 01:18:06.479 e cciited it many many times. The whole essay proves 1026 01:18:06.520 --> 01:18:10.760 beyond any shadow of doubt that that's the whole context 1027 01:18:11.039 --> 01:18:15.399 of the Aryan argument, And in fact, Saint Gregor Palamos 1028 01:18:15.399 --> 01:18:18.399 will even cite that very debate and then cite Saint 1029 01:18:18.439 --> 01:18:21.800 Cyril of Alexandria using the same arguments for the Essen 1030 01:18:21.880 --> 01:18:25.960 Sentergy section. This is baffling to me that the goofy 1031 01:18:26.079 --> 01:18:29.760 Roman Catholics come in here trying to use Athenasious and 1032 01:18:29.800 --> 01:18:33.319 Saint Cyril to disprove the Essen senergy stinction when that's 1033 01:18:33.399 --> 01:18:37.920 a key lynch pin in their argumentation. Uh, let me 1034 01:18:38.039 --> 01:18:43.600 add this, so again we have to stress this Athanasius 1035 01:18:43.800 --> 01:18:50.920 whole argument against the Arians is what I was just 1036 01:18:50.960 --> 01:19:03.079 telling you, and anybody who reads the famous Fluoroski essay 1037 01:19:03.279 --> 01:19:07.000 will know that beyond any shadow without now point being 1038 01:19:07.199 --> 01:19:20.039 is that this essay, we know that that this is 1039 01:19:20.159 --> 01:19:26.439 not just something that uh Fluorofsky cooked up, because it's 1040 01:19:26.479 --> 01:19:29.760 the same argument is made in here. It's not something 1041 01:19:29.760 --> 01:19:32.279 that Florofsky is made. Let me get clever here and 1042 01:19:32.319 --> 01:19:34.760 try to prove that Athanasius believing the essence energy distinction 1043 01:19:34.920 --> 01:19:37.640 to no, No, it's the same argument was made for 1044 01:19:37.760 --> 01:19:46.319 centuries before in Saint Gregory. So as we moved through 1045 01:19:46.399 --> 01:19:57.399 then the debate continues by saying, Barley, Barlem, there's the possibility, well, uh, 1046 01:19:57.640 --> 01:20:01.319 maybe that these distinctions are just into uh oh wherever 1047 01:20:01.359 --> 01:20:04.199 we heard this before? Oh, every Roman Catholic ninety nine 1048 01:20:04.239 --> 01:20:08.439 point nine percent of right, Maybe the distinctions that we're 1049 01:20:08.439 --> 01:20:14.359 talking about are just intellectual. But the intellect can see 1050 01:20:14.439 --> 01:20:17.600 these distinctions, but really in themselves are all the same, 1051 01:20:17.720 --> 01:20:20.560 because if we thought these distinctions were real, it would 1052 01:20:20.600 --> 01:20:22.880 mean that God's composed. How many times we have to 1053 01:20:22.920 --> 01:20:26.000 respond to the same point. Distinction does not entail composition 1054 01:20:26.079 --> 01:20:29.319 or division. And if you can admit that the Father 1055 01:20:29.840 --> 01:20:32.039 is the cause of the son, does all the Eastern 1056 01:20:32.079 --> 01:20:35.479 fathers say, then you already admit the distinction does not 1057 01:20:35.680 --> 01:20:39.880 entail division or composition. So there should be no problem 1058 01:20:40.439 --> 01:20:45.399 in believing and a distinction between God's energies, actions and 1059 01:20:45.479 --> 01:20:50.159 what he is at himself. And in fact, he says 1060 01:20:50.199 --> 01:20:53.239 that if you believe in fact, this is Saint Gregory's argument. Now, 1061 01:20:53.279 --> 01:20:58.159 he says, if you believe that God is absolutely simple, 1062 01:20:59.079 --> 01:21:03.359 but that you participate in a created, supernatural grace that's 1063 01:21:03.439 --> 01:21:06.880 also divine, then you make two gods. You have a 1064 01:21:07.760 --> 01:21:10.600 uncreated God and a created God that you participate in 1065 01:21:13.520 --> 01:21:16.279 a created, supernatural grace, which is literally what they say 1066 01:21:17.199 --> 01:21:19.600 is that the same as the uncreated. The Roman Catholic 1067 01:21:19.600 --> 01:21:22.159 will tell you no, if that's not the same, then 1068 01:21:22.199 --> 01:21:24.079 you have two gods. You have a created God you 1069 01:21:24.119 --> 01:21:26.079 worship and you have an uncreated God you worship, so 1070 01:21:26.239 --> 01:21:32.439 actually you are the Diaddic polytheis not the Orthodox because 1071 01:21:32.479 --> 01:21:35.479 we believe that the uncreated energies are fully God. The 1072 01:21:35.560 --> 01:21:37.920 distinction between essence and energy is not a composite God. 1073 01:21:37.920 --> 01:21:42.039 It's not two gods. Every energy is fully divine. They're 1074 01:21:42.119 --> 01:21:45.359 not accidents in the aarriistic thing and sense. God is 1075 01:21:45.399 --> 01:21:48.760 not substance an accident. Yes, correct, he's not composed, but 1076 01:21:48.880 --> 01:21:51.039 that doesn't mean that differentiation in him is not real. 1077 01:21:51.840 --> 01:21:55.079 It's not merely conceptual. Are the persons in the triad 1078 01:21:55.239 --> 01:21:59.840 only conceptual notional distinctions virtual distinctions? No, they're real. The 1079 01:22:00.119 --> 01:22:02.840 Father really does eternally generate the Son. That's not a 1080 01:22:03.079 --> 01:22:08.159 notional distinction. It's an actual, eternal begetting. And that's why 1081 01:22:08.199 --> 01:22:11.199 the Father, as all the person of the Father, as 1082 01:22:11.239 --> 01:22:14.880 all the fathers teach, is the soul, cause and monarchia 1083 01:22:14.960 --> 01:22:20.920 of the Godhead. The next team moves to the beatific vision. 1084 01:22:21.279 --> 01:22:23.039 He says that if you believe that you will see 1085 01:22:23.079 --> 01:22:27.720 the essence of God, you are a Eunomian exactly. And 1086 01:22:27.840 --> 01:22:30.800 this disproves Luke and his madness from yesterday or two 1087 01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:33.920 days ago, whatever it was, because Luke says that it's 1088 01:22:33.960 --> 01:22:36.439 only about what the statements in the dogma are about 1089 01:22:36.600 --> 01:22:40.199 divine simplicity. No, it's not. It immediately goes into beatific vision. 1090 01:22:40.800 --> 01:22:43.600 The Roman doctrine of the beatific vision, where your intellect 1091 01:22:43.760 --> 01:22:46.000 is finally satiated and you're made happy by seeing the 1092 01:22:46.119 --> 01:22:49.039 essence of God, is utterly absurd and Eunomian. It's the 1093 01:22:49.079 --> 01:22:51.359 same heresy as Eunomius, and the same heresy as the 1094 01:22:51.399 --> 01:22:53.880 Massallians who said that there's all the essence of God. 1095 01:22:55.720 --> 01:22:58.439 And Saint Gregory then moves into saying, you are now 1096 01:22:58.520 --> 01:23:02.000 in a presubositional trap. Did you hear me? A presubositional 1097 01:23:02.119 --> 01:23:06.640 trap because you have hung yourself on an either or 1098 01:23:09.119 --> 01:23:11.439 And the idiot Roman Catholics say that I make up 1099 01:23:11.680 --> 01:23:15.479 the presuppositional argument. No, no, this is the presubsistional argument, 1100 01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:19.640 because he's putting Barleum into the either or traps that 1101 01:23:19.760 --> 01:23:23.840 Barleum has created for himself. It's not. We are not 1102 01:23:23.920 --> 01:23:26.439 in the either or trap because we deny the dialectical 1103 01:23:26.560 --> 01:23:30.159 tension of either or right. There can be distinctions in 1104 01:23:30.239 --> 01:23:34.760 God without composition or division. Barleum says, our intellect rises 1105 01:23:34.840 --> 01:23:37.520 up to see the essence of God. First we must 1106 01:23:37.800 --> 01:23:41.239 move through this pathway of creatures, and then we through 1107 01:23:41.439 --> 01:23:44.560 intellectual vision like Plato, we can see the essence of God. 1108 01:23:44.640 --> 01:23:47.880 And then in the eternal state will be perfectly satiated 1109 01:23:47.920 --> 01:23:50.720 and we won't want to change, will be perfectly fixated 1110 01:23:50.760 --> 01:23:53.359 in a static vision of the essence of God. That 1111 01:23:53.560 --> 01:23:58.359 is Platonism. That's what Plato said, That's what Origin says. 1112 01:23:59.600 --> 01:24:06.520 The typic vision is the heresy of Originism and Plato. Now, 1113 01:24:06.600 --> 01:24:09.159 the only difference is that Origin thought that in order 1114 01:24:09.239 --> 01:24:11.680 to retain free will, you have to be able to 1115 01:24:12.000 --> 01:24:15.119 move your gaze away from that one essence of God. 1116 01:24:15.199 --> 01:24:17.680 And that's what the fall is. The fall is your 1117 01:24:17.920 --> 01:24:21.039 intellect moving away from the singular essence of God and 1118 01:24:21.199 --> 01:24:27.720 falling then into creatureliness. Again, No, all that Plato crap, 1119 01:24:27.880 --> 01:24:30.920 We've tossed all that out. That's once again Jerusalem versus Athens. 1120 01:24:30.960 --> 01:24:34.439 We don't want any of that nonsense. It's not our 1121 01:24:34.600 --> 01:24:39.000 created intellect that sees the essence of God. Okay, body, soul, 1122 01:24:39.079 --> 01:24:43.119 and noose are transformed by the uncreated energies. That's the 1123 01:24:43.239 --> 01:24:48.239 key here. So when Saint Maximus discusses the vision that 1124 01:24:48.359 --> 01:24:51.800 we have, Maximus says explicitly, we do not see the 1125 01:24:51.960 --> 01:24:55.079 essence of God. What we see are the many logi, 1126 01:24:55.840 --> 01:25:01.079 the many uncreated energies in the one logos, very different 1127 01:25:05.600 --> 01:25:08.640 the exemplars. Now, he moves to the exemplar argument. How 1128 01:25:08.680 --> 01:25:11.039 many times have you heard me make the exemplar argument? 1129 01:25:11.119 --> 01:25:13.720 I made it against classical theists, made it against other 1130 01:25:13.800 --> 01:25:18.640 Thomas because it's absurd. The exemplars are identified in Tonism 1131 01:25:19.439 --> 01:25:21.680 and in most of Aromatholicism, with the essence of God. 1132 01:25:22.119 --> 01:25:26.359 Augustine says this, even but the exemplars of created things, 1133 01:25:26.560 --> 01:25:30.159 the patterns, principles, and archetypes of all the created things 1134 01:25:30.239 --> 01:25:32.960 are not identical to the essence of God. The essence 1135 01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:37.479 of God is absolutely simple and undifferentiated. It's a perfect unity, right, 1136 01:25:37.680 --> 01:25:42.279 And so if created things are based in the essence 1137 01:25:42.319 --> 01:25:45.399 of God for their patterns and archetypes, then all things 1138 01:25:45.439 --> 01:25:48.479 are nothing but reflections and manifestations of the essence of God, 1139 01:25:48.479 --> 01:25:52.119 which is impossible, and thus all if you're consistent with that, 1140 01:25:52.159 --> 01:25:53.840 you would actually believe in Maya. You would believe that 1141 01:25:53.920 --> 01:25:57.760 distinctions in the world are actually illusory, because there's no 1142 01:25:57.840 --> 01:26:01.840 such thing as chair fareness. Right, The chair doesn't have 1143 01:26:01.880 --> 01:26:04.880 an archetype in the essence of God. The essence of 1144 01:26:04.920 --> 01:26:08.640 God is not like any created thing. Moses says this, 1145 01:26:08.960 --> 01:26:12.399 does he not right? Not only does Moses say this, 1146 01:26:12.520 --> 01:26:14.359 Paul says this in Act seventeen when he goes and 1147 01:26:14.439 --> 01:26:21.119 he talks to the philosophers battling Hellenic philosophy. Act seventeen 1148 01:26:21.239 --> 01:26:25.720 is completely a refutation of Hellenic presuppositions. He says, the 1149 01:26:25.800 --> 01:26:28.640 divine nature is not like anything created. It's not like 1150 01:26:28.760 --> 01:26:34.560 gold and silver and things in temples. That's idolatry. What 1151 01:26:34.640 --> 01:26:37.920 does Rome Catholicism say creatures are analogs to the essence 1152 01:26:37.960 --> 01:26:44.119 of God. You're an idolator, now, I know that they 1153 01:26:44.199 --> 01:26:46.520 say that. Yeah, but it's not a perfect analogy to 1154 01:26:46.560 --> 01:26:48.760 the essence of God. It's not an analogy the essence 1155 01:26:48.760 --> 01:26:50.880 of God at all. There's no creatures that are like 1156 01:26:50.920 --> 01:26:54.279 the essence of God. That's why we are in perfect 1157 01:26:54.319 --> 01:26:58.840 continuity with Moses. When Moses sees God and experiences God, 1158 01:26:59.239 --> 01:27:03.199 he experiences the goodness of God. It's made explicit in Exodus. 1159 01:27:03.279 --> 01:27:05.000 God says, I'm not gonna show you my face, it 1160 01:27:05.039 --> 01:27:08.159 would kill you, but i will show you my goodness 1161 01:27:08.319 --> 01:27:09.560 is the goodness of God created? 1162 01:27:10.439 --> 01:27:11.079 No, it's not. 1163 01:27:12.680 --> 01:27:21.239 The goodness of God is uncreated. Go read dynasties. Next 1164 01:27:21.359 --> 01:27:23.840 he begins to say, all right, I'm gonna let's argue 1165 01:27:24.000 --> 01:27:26.479 not just from the logie of Saint Maximus. Because Saint 1166 01:27:26.520 --> 01:27:29.520 Maximus writes at length and Ambiguum seven, which we will 1167 01:27:29.560 --> 01:27:33.000 cover in Part two, on the uncreated energies, the uncreated logi. 1168 01:27:34.439 --> 01:27:37.880 He says, creatures revealed to us those logi, but they're 1169 01:27:38.159 --> 01:27:41.399 they're not identical. Creatures are not identical to the exemplars, 1170 01:27:41.439 --> 01:27:43.600 and the exemplars are not the essence of God. This 1171 01:27:43.760 --> 01:27:47.880 is very key, and Maximus is unambiguous about that, Hence 1172 01:27:47.920 --> 01:27:51.520 the Ambiguum number seven where he covers this issue. The 1173 01:27:51.600 --> 01:27:56.039 logi right, Therefore, it is absurd and stupid to identify 1174 01:27:56.159 --> 01:27:58.600 the exemplars with the essence of God, which classical theists 1175 01:27:58.720 --> 01:28:01.199 still does. Then he was on to say that God 1176 01:28:01.560 --> 01:28:03.880 may have done many other works beyond the works that 1177 01:28:03.960 --> 01:28:08.319 we know. He has energies that we don't know, because 1178 01:28:08.359 --> 01:28:13.479 Scripture says he has many, many, many infinite works. We 1179 01:28:13.520 --> 01:28:20.319 will never exhaust the works of God. And who does 1180 01:28:20.399 --> 01:28:25.199 he cite for that, Saint Basil Saint Basil says, God 1181 01:28:25.880 --> 01:28:28.920 has many, many works, and he has even more works 1182 01:28:28.960 --> 01:28:33.560 that we don't even know. And I'm sure, oh, you're 1183 01:28:33.640 --> 01:28:37.800 making up those quotes. Those are all made up. All 1184 01:28:37.920 --> 01:28:41.680 this is referenced. So let's give you the citations. This 1185 01:28:41.840 --> 01:28:47.439 is against Eunomius chapter two to cite Maximus, it is 1186 01:28:47.560 --> 01:28:52.880 Ambiguum seven, and it is Maximus against Thalassios chapter thirteen. 1187 01:28:53.319 --> 01:28:55.119 There you go go look these up. Write these down 1188 01:28:55.159 --> 01:28:58.479 and look them up. Liars, you're making those quotes of 1189 01:29:00.800 --> 01:29:03.600 Next he moves to said Barlem moves on. He says, 1190 01:29:03.600 --> 01:29:14.560 all right, look, maybe the grace itself isn't created. It's 1191 01:29:14.600 --> 01:29:18.239 actually uncreated. So Barleum moves his position, and now he 1192 01:29:18.279 --> 01:29:20.960 says that, no, we really do participate in theosis. We 1193 01:29:21.079 --> 01:29:26.800 really do, and we're really getting divinity, but that divinity 1194 01:29:27.000 --> 01:29:29.720 is uncreated. And this is what you will see the 1195 01:29:29.760 --> 01:29:32.960 Roman Catholics do. They get so confused. They will literally 1196 01:29:33.000 --> 01:29:36.039 flip back and forth and say both things within the 1197 01:29:36.079 --> 01:29:39.039 same debate. They'll say the same no, No, you're really 1198 01:29:39.119 --> 01:29:42.680 getting a supernatural created grace. The grace itself was created. 1199 01:29:43.000 --> 01:29:45.119 And then like five minutes later they'll be like, well 1200 01:29:45.199 --> 01:29:48.000 you are participating in the divine nature. In duification, you're 1201 01:29:48.039 --> 01:29:51.720 really being deified, and it's the divine nature. Is the 1202 01:29:51.760 --> 01:30:02.319 divine nature a supernatural creature? No, So Saint Gregory calls 1203 01:30:02.359 --> 01:30:05.359 out barleym here and he says, you earlier you said 1204 01:30:05.399 --> 01:30:07.680 that it was a creature, and now you're saying it's uncreated. 1205 01:30:10.319 --> 01:30:14.560 And then he says that if you were consistent, you 1206 01:30:14.600 --> 01:30:19.399 would adopt atheism because absolute divine simplicity actually cuts God 1207 01:30:19.479 --> 01:30:23.279 off from being imminently present in this world. Exactly. It 1208 01:30:23.439 --> 01:30:26.640 removes the imminent energies of God, and it makes God 1209 01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:31.520 a cut off being who only interacts through created effects 1210 01:30:31.520 --> 01:30:34.560 in this world. That's what every Thomas will tell you. Yeah, okay, 1211 01:30:34.560 --> 01:30:37.079 if that's the case, then that leads to atheism. We 1212 01:30:37.119 --> 01:30:40.039 don't actually know. We never interact directly with that God. 1213 01:30:40.439 --> 01:30:43.199 And in fact, all we have are created analogs which 1214 01:30:43.239 --> 01:30:48.359 are supposed to tell us these different attributes. How do 1215 01:30:48.399 --> 01:30:50.880 you know if you're experiencing mercy as opposed to foreknowledge, 1216 01:30:50.880 --> 01:30:53.680 as opposed to justice, as opposed to love, as opposed 1217 01:30:53.720 --> 01:30:57.359 to punishment, as opposed to wrath. You don't, So you 1218 01:30:57.520 --> 01:31:00.960 never know because this God is cut off from this world. 1219 01:31:01.520 --> 01:31:04.239 If all we ever experience is creative effects, how is 1220 01:31:04.279 --> 01:31:08.359 there an incarnation, a real incarnation, the second person that 1221 01:31:08.399 --> 01:31:13.079 God had really became incarnate in time and space. He's 1222 01:31:13.119 --> 01:31:16.359 not just a created effect. It's not just a notional 1223 01:31:16.560 --> 01:31:20.560 virtual incarnation. It's not just a conceptual incarnation. That's why 1224 01:31:20.600 --> 01:31:25.000 you're a heretic. God is wholly present in each energy, 1225 01:31:25.560 --> 01:31:31.239 and therefore there is not parts to God. Next, he 1226 01:31:31.359 --> 01:31:33.960 moves on to dealing with the fact that sat Dinysius 1227 01:31:34.159 --> 01:31:37.560 says the essence of God has no name. God is divinity, 1228 01:31:38.319 --> 01:31:41.840 and that unity, that power is beyond our conception, and 1229 01:31:41.920 --> 01:31:44.199 therefore it itself has no name. We do not know 1230 01:31:44.359 --> 01:31:47.920 the essence of God. Even when we say God is 1231 01:31:49.159 --> 01:31:53.960 super substantial, God is a super essential one, we are 1232 01:31:54.039 --> 01:31:56.840 not naming that essence, he says. Those are just still 1233 01:31:57.520 --> 01:32:02.359 energetic titles for God. Even the name one, and even 1234 01:32:02.399 --> 01:32:06.600 the name essence is an energy because what it signifies 1235 01:32:06.680 --> 01:32:09.680 we don't know. We're not saying that they're confused. We're 1236 01:32:09.720 --> 01:32:12.439 not saying that essence is energy. We're saying that we 1237 01:32:12.600 --> 01:32:15.720 only know that God is one essence because He's revealed it. 1238 01:32:17.399 --> 01:32:19.359 So if we say that the grace of God that 1239 01:32:19.439 --> 01:32:25.000 we get is a created light. He says, that is 1240 01:32:25.079 --> 01:32:28.319 an impiety. That would mean that we aren't really deified. 1241 01:32:28.600 --> 01:32:33.439 We're just given another creaturely substance, another creaturely accident. I 1242 01:32:33.479 --> 01:32:35.399 don't care. It doesn't matter whether you say it's a 1243 01:32:35.479 --> 01:32:37.960 created substance or a created accident, because the point is 1244 01:32:38.000 --> 01:32:40.960 that it's a creature. This is the other bumble that 1245 01:32:41.399 --> 01:32:44.960 Mathema tried to play gotcha on, and it actually functioned 1246 01:32:45.000 --> 01:32:48.359 to get him, and that's why he crumbled this last week. 1247 01:32:49.600 --> 01:32:51.800 Saint Gregory goes on to say, if the Father is 1248 01:32:51.880 --> 01:32:55.840 the soul caushi monarchia of the godhead, as Barlem admits, 1249 01:32:55.880 --> 01:32:57.279 which by the way, some of the Thomas don't even 1250 01:32:57.279 --> 01:32:59.000 admit this. If you go and listen to the doctor 1251 01:32:59.039 --> 01:33:02.560 Fine Gold de Bait. He was lost when I said this, 1252 01:33:02.760 --> 01:33:06.279 which is common parlance amongst all the fathers for the 1253 01:33:06.319 --> 01:33:10.319 first eight centuries. Barleam admits that the Father is the 1254 01:33:10.359 --> 01:33:13.560 sole cause. Then Gregory moves on to say, then distinction 1255 01:33:13.680 --> 01:33:16.479 does not entail division, because he's the cause of the son, 1256 01:33:17.039 --> 01:33:19.359 and that implies a real distinction between father and son, 1257 01:33:21.079 --> 01:33:23.600 and Barlem says, yes, it is a real distinction. But 1258 01:33:23.800 --> 01:33:26.680 that doesn't mean that the essence of God is composed. 1259 01:33:28.399 --> 01:33:31.880 And at this point Gregory Saint Gregory says, yeah, exactly right, 1260 01:33:32.399 --> 01:33:35.800 And so he goes then to Saint Athanasius. He says, 1261 01:33:35.800 --> 01:33:38.880 Saint Anthonasius teaches a distinction between essence and energy page 1262 01:33:38.920 --> 01:33:42.199 sixty one, and therefore there is no absolute simplicity. He 1263 01:33:42.279 --> 01:33:46.159 says that God's actions are not his essence, and God's 1264 01:33:47.760 --> 01:33:50.319 referring to God as he or to his existence is 1265 01:33:50.399 --> 01:33:53.000 not identical to his essence, and he cites st Athosian 1266 01:33:53.359 --> 01:33:56.000 Athanasius in multiple places there to prove. 1267 01:33:55.880 --> 01:33:56.399 That that is so. 1268 01:33:56.920 --> 01:34:02.399 Again, let me once again send you the essay where 1269 01:34:02.479 --> 01:34:09.000 we have the argumentation proving the many, many citations proving 1270 01:34:09.640 --> 01:34:17.920 that Athanasius does not teach absolute divine simplicity athenacious. Entire 1271 01:34:18.119 --> 01:34:23.760 argumentation against the Arians is predicated on there being a 1272 01:34:23.840 --> 01:34:27.680 real distinction between God's nature and his will and counsel, 1273 01:34:30.960 --> 01:34:33.600 and that has proven definitively, and that same argument that 1274 01:34:33.680 --> 01:34:34.800 Fluorofsky makes is right. 1275 01:34:34.840 --> 01:34:34.960 Here. 1276 01:34:37.600 --> 01:34:42.279 We have then a litany of essence energy distinction citations. 1277 01:34:42.680 --> 01:34:46.279 I tweeted many of these out yesterday. He then launches 1278 01:34:46.319 --> 01:34:49.520 into this litany of many of them, one of them. 1279 01:34:49.560 --> 01:34:52.439 Let's let's let's read a couple of them. Athanasius says, 1280 01:34:52.920 --> 01:34:56.920 the God being God is second to his essence. Did 1281 01:34:57.000 --> 01:35:00.960 you hear me? God being God is second to his essence? 1282 01:35:03.600 --> 01:35:07.640 Gregory says, if the judgments of God cannot be discerned 1283 01:35:07.680 --> 01:35:10.199 in any way are searched out, and the promise of 1284 01:35:10.239 --> 01:35:13.000 good things transcends all conjecture founded upon the queries, how 1285 01:35:13.079 --> 01:35:14.960 much more is the divine nature higher than all the 1286 01:35:15.039 --> 01:35:17.840 things that are set about it? And on account of 1287 01:35:17.880 --> 01:35:22.640 it unnameable and unapproachable? Saint Basil says, when all of 1288 01:35:22.680 --> 01:35:26.479 these activities, which are the activities of the Spirit, they 1289 01:35:26.479 --> 01:35:30.039 are unnameable due to their greatness, and innumerable because of 1290 01:35:30.039 --> 01:35:32.199 their multitude. For how can we think that what is 1291 01:35:32.239 --> 01:35:38.319 above the ages and which were His activities before the 1292 01:35:38.399 --> 01:35:41.279 intelligible creation? Did you hear that? Which were his activities 1293 01:35:41.319 --> 01:35:44.399 before the creation? How many of are those graces which 1294 01:35:44.439 --> 01:35:47.199 flow from Him to creation? And what is the power 1295 01:35:47.279 --> 01:35:50.000 of those in relationship to the coming age? Hence, even 1296 01:35:50.039 --> 01:35:52.720 when you think something about above the ages, even that 1297 01:35:52.920 --> 01:35:56.880 is lower than the Spirit himself. So God's actions are 1298 01:35:56.960 --> 01:36:01.079 not identical to who he is would then that the 1299 01:36:01.199 --> 01:36:03.439 essence of God, which is above all names and unutterable, 1300 01:36:05.199 --> 01:36:09.359 abound around which are the powers and energies which are 1301 01:36:09.399 --> 01:36:13.439 also before all ages. Right. And he elsewhere he distinguishes 1302 01:36:13.560 --> 01:36:16.399 the energies that are eternal from all time, such as 1303 01:36:16.479 --> 01:36:18.960 the glory of God, the love of God, to the 1304 01:36:19.119 --> 01:36:22.000 energies that relate only to space and time, right creating 1305 01:36:22.039 --> 01:36:25.600 the world. And that's dealt with at length in the Triads. 1306 01:36:27.199 --> 01:36:30.119 And again this is all straight from Easter for Fathers. 1307 01:36:31.000 --> 01:36:33.479 Then he moves on to talk about Grace itself. He says, 1308 01:36:34.760 --> 01:36:40.439 if if we are deified, then it has to be supernatural, 1309 01:36:40.520 --> 01:36:43.159 does it not? And Barlam says yeah, I would agree 1310 01:36:43.199 --> 01:36:45.880 with that, right, And so if grace is supernatural, then 1311 01:36:45.880 --> 01:36:49.239 it cannot be identified with natural and Barleum says, I agree. 1312 01:36:49.680 --> 01:36:52.680 He says, are created things natural? He says, yes, in 1313 01:36:52.760 --> 01:36:55.399 this sense they are. Well, then if it's supernatural, it 1314 01:36:55.439 --> 01:36:58.039 has to be uncreated, and Barlium says, yes, I would 1315 01:36:58.039 --> 01:37:01.399 agree with that. Then therefore or Grace is uncreated and 1316 01:37:01.520 --> 01:37:04.920 not a supernatural created substance exactly. He says that if 1317 01:37:04.960 --> 01:37:07.960 we participate in the un in the glory of Christ. Again, 1318 01:37:08.279 --> 01:37:11.520 he says that then that signifies a real participation in 1319 01:37:11.800 --> 01:37:15.600 uncreated grace with the very life that God has. Yes, 1320 01:37:16.079 --> 01:37:18.439 he says that that is uncreated. Next he moves to 1321 01:37:18.640 --> 01:37:22.319 proving this again from Saint Basil, and not letter two 1322 01:37:22.359 --> 01:37:25.840 thirty four, but actually from a different letter. This is 1323 01:37:25.920 --> 01:37:29.079 letter one eighty nine where Saint Bezos is. But either 1324 01:37:29.159 --> 01:37:31.800 you call the nature of God divinity, and then the 1325 01:37:31.920 --> 01:37:34.680 nature of the three is one, or you call the 1326 01:37:34.920 --> 01:37:37.239 energies divinity and then the act the energy of the 1327 01:37:37.279 --> 01:37:40.399 three persons is one. Correct. So there, once again is 1328 01:37:40.439 --> 01:37:44.600 Basil make the distinction between essence, energy, nature, will person. 1329 01:37:44.760 --> 01:37:48.439 They're all distinguished. But does that mean that distinction entails divisions? 1330 01:37:48.560 --> 01:37:50.199 Are we saying that God is made up of these 1331 01:37:50.279 --> 01:37:53.680 ten parts? No, of course not. He's not made up 1332 01:37:53.720 --> 01:37:55.920 of twenty parts. Not if he has infinite energies, he's 1333 01:37:55.960 --> 01:37:58.039 not made up of a million different energies. Right, Doing 1334 01:37:58.399 --> 01:38:00.920 different actions creating the world and on water doesn't mean 1335 01:38:00.960 --> 01:38:05.920 that he has two different parts. There, there's two different actions. Next, 1336 01:38:06.000 --> 01:38:07.439 he goes on to talk about the fact that the 1337 01:38:09.680 --> 01:38:15.319 many energies are not abstract. They are in hypostatic, meaning 1338 01:38:15.359 --> 01:38:19.439 that they are personal. Right, and then he says, the 1339 01:38:19.520 --> 01:38:22.039 fact that there's a distinction does not mean that they're divided. 1340 01:38:22.720 --> 01:38:25.319 God is not composed, because there's a distinction between his 1341 01:38:25.399 --> 01:38:28.800 actions and his essence. And he proves this by saying 1342 01:38:28.840 --> 01:38:31.119 that look at the seven spirits of God. Right, we 1343 01:38:31.199 --> 01:38:34.079 have this statement from scripture from Isaiah and then from 1344 01:38:34.119 --> 01:38:36.680 the Apocalypse, the seven spirits of God sent out to 1345 01:38:36.800 --> 01:38:40.520 the seven churches. He says, are those created or uncreated? 1346 01:38:40.840 --> 01:38:44.319 Barlam says, those are the spirit they're uncreated, And he 1347 01:38:44.359 --> 01:38:47.840 says yes. And then what does he cite? He cites 1348 01:38:47.880 --> 01:38:50.600 what I just cited last night or the other night 1349 01:38:50.680 --> 01:38:54.720 from Saint Maximus. Sat Maximus says in that section that 1350 01:38:54.880 --> 01:38:59.439 the seventh spirits are the uncreated energies that God transfers 1351 01:38:59.520 --> 01:39:02.800 to the church. He says, when we say that the 1352 01:39:02.880 --> 01:39:06.359 seven spirits of God are present, that they're real, differentiated 1353 01:39:06.760 --> 01:39:09.640 actions of God, the works of the spirit. He says, 1354 01:39:09.680 --> 01:39:13.079 does that mean that God has seven parts? Is God divided? 1355 01:39:13.199 --> 01:39:16.079 It's the Holy Spirit divided into seven because they're seven spirits. 1356 01:39:16.560 --> 01:39:19.439 Of course not. And he says, do you think that 1357 01:39:19.479 --> 01:39:23.079 they're really different? He says, does everybody have the same 1358 01:39:23.199 --> 01:39:27.279 gifts in the church? No right. And in one Corinthians twelve, 1359 01:39:27.319 --> 01:39:29.840 when Paul uses this term inner gaia in the Greek, 1360 01:39:30.279 --> 01:39:33.359 he says that the spirit distributes many gifts, and he says, 1361 01:39:33.399 --> 01:39:35.800 there's many workings of the spirit in that text, many 1362 01:39:35.840 --> 01:39:39.039 innergayia of the spirit, and yet one spirit does that 1363 01:39:39.239 --> 01:39:42.640 negate the distinction? No right. So one person can have 1364 01:39:42.720 --> 01:39:45.159 the gift of tongues, which is from the spirit, and 1365 01:39:45.239 --> 01:39:47.159 another person can have the gift of ministry and the 1366 01:39:47.159 --> 01:39:51.399 gift of mercy or whatever. Are they all the same no? 1367 01:39:52.399 --> 01:39:56.359 Are they the same spirit? Yes? So then therefore you 1368 01:39:56.439 --> 01:40:03.000 can have distinction that's real without division or composition. One 1369 01:40:03.159 --> 01:40:06.520 Corinthians twelve is abundantly clear. The Greek word is entergaia, 1370 01:40:07.119 --> 01:40:09.439 and the works of the spirit are really divine, They're 1371 01:40:09.479 --> 01:40:15.600 not created analogs. Next, I want to mention that Saint 1372 01:40:15.640 --> 01:40:20.039 Gregory calls Barlem stupid and heretical. Now, a lot of 1373 01:40:20.039 --> 01:40:22.119 people get mad, and they will be super pious and 1374 01:40:22.159 --> 01:40:24.239 they will act like, don't ever say that somebody is 1375 01:40:24.279 --> 01:40:28.399 stupid and heretical. Saint Gregory just calls Barlem stupid and heretical. 1376 01:40:28.680 --> 01:40:31.600 There's nothing inherently wrong when it is in fact the 1377 01:40:31.680 --> 01:40:34.000 case that a person is stupid. To call them stupid, 1378 01:40:34.680 --> 01:40:37.079 now you should not be mean. It should not come 1379 01:40:37.159 --> 01:40:42.840 from a place of hatred or a pride. But if 1380 01:40:42.880 --> 01:40:45.680 in fact a person is being stubborn and stupid and foolish, 1381 01:40:46.119 --> 01:40:48.960 as the Bible many many times calls people foolish, which 1382 01:40:49.000 --> 01:40:51.520 presupposes that you have the ability to recognize when people 1383 01:40:51.520 --> 01:40:54.840 are foolish. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's nothing 1384 01:40:54.880 --> 01:40:58.720 wrong with continuing and nowaday if we believe this religion 1385 01:40:59.319 --> 01:41:01.359 to say that the people who still hold this view 1386 01:41:01.399 --> 01:41:04.680 are stupid and heretical. Now, being a heretic, of course, 1387 01:41:04.760 --> 01:41:09.800 requires obstinacy, wilfulness. Right, You're not just accidentally a heretic. Right, 1388 01:41:11.239 --> 01:41:14.119 heresy is a sin of will, not just a sin 1389 01:41:14.159 --> 01:41:16.359 of ignorance. Now, a person can be wilfully ignorant, but 1390 01:41:16.399 --> 01:41:21.039 that's a different issue. Heresy requires knowledge and obstinacy. In 1391 01:41:22.079 --> 01:41:25.359 our moral theology and amongst the Church fathers. Right, you 1392 01:41:25.439 --> 01:41:28.199 can be ignorant and wrong. Doesn't mean you're saved just 1393 01:41:28.239 --> 01:41:30.520 because you're ignorant. I'm not saying that either, But I'm 1394 01:41:30.560 --> 01:41:33.960 saying that a heretic in the parlance of the Church fathers, 1395 01:41:34.319 --> 01:41:36.239 in canon law, and so forth. There's a person who 1396 01:41:36.439 --> 01:41:40.199 demonstrates obstinacy. That's why Paul says, reject a heretical man 1397 01:41:41.039 --> 01:41:43.760 after the first and second admonition. Right, Paul doesn't say 1398 01:41:44.000 --> 01:41:47.359 reject everybody because everybody's a heretic, Right, he says, reject 1399 01:41:47.399 --> 01:41:49.520 it to Timothy, a heretical man after the first and 1400 01:41:49.600 --> 01:41:52.359 second admonition. That's why what you see me typically do 1401 01:41:53.199 --> 01:41:57.960 is when people are obstinate, obtuse, ridiculous, I don't interact 1402 01:41:58.000 --> 01:42:02.159 with them anymore. That we will interact initially, we'll have 1403 01:42:02.279 --> 01:42:06.199 a time period. If you are obstinate, I move on 1404 01:42:07.199 --> 01:42:11.359 and I don't interact with you anymore. And so Basil 1405 01:42:11.520 --> 01:42:15.479 excuse me. Barleum, according to the Synod, according to Saint 1406 01:42:15.520 --> 01:42:20.399 Gregor Palomas, is called stupid and heretical. David Bentley Hart 1407 01:42:20.520 --> 01:42:24.079 is stupid and heretical because he's literally repeating what Barleam says. 1408 01:42:24.119 --> 01:42:27.600 He says that there's no distinction. Pallemism is not different 1409 01:42:27.640 --> 01:42:31.079 from Romantholicism, even though Roman Catholicism is literally what Barleam says. 1410 01:42:32.479 --> 01:42:34.680 And I can therefore say that David Bentley Heart is 1411 01:42:34.720 --> 01:42:42.760 stupid and heretical. Saint Gregor Palamas moves on into emphatically 1412 01:42:43.520 --> 01:42:47.600 stress again that the seven spirits of God in scripture 1413 01:42:48.000 --> 01:42:51.560 do not necessitate the spirit is divided up into seven parts. 1414 01:42:51.680 --> 01:42:54.079 It doesn't mean that the spirit has seven persons, He's 1415 01:42:54.119 --> 01:42:58.960 not seven hypostases, but that there really are distinct differences. 1416 01:42:59.079 --> 01:43:04.239 There are differences in these seven spirits. Next, we have 1417 01:43:04.439 --> 01:43:08.159 the allegation of act as purists that God is pure 1418 01:43:08.199 --> 01:43:11.960 act He is his existence, he is his essence, and 1419 01:43:13.920 --> 01:43:17.239 Barlem falls back on saying, well, again, if there's a distinction, 1420 01:43:17.319 --> 01:43:19.279 then it must mean God has composed of parts. So 1421 01:43:19.399 --> 01:43:21.560 he just kind of like just like a Roman collage. Repeat, 1422 01:43:21.560 --> 01:43:23.079 it doesn't matter what you say. You say all this 1423 01:43:23.159 --> 01:43:24.960 stuff and then just fall back into saying, yeah, but 1424 01:43:25.000 --> 01:43:28.000 God doesn't have parts, Well, that would mean God's composed. 1425 01:43:29.399 --> 01:43:33.039 Distinction does not entail composition or Division's that's where the 1426 01:43:33.159 --> 01:43:36.680 argument goes next. Distinction does not entail composition or division. 1427 01:43:38.079 --> 01:43:40.119 While their son in spirit are distinct, that does not 1428 01:43:40.319 --> 01:43:46.800 entail composition and division. Even Luke was admitting to me 1429 01:43:48.199 --> 01:43:52.199 that a Quinas admits nature in person are distinct. Yes 1430 01:43:52.239 --> 01:43:55.199 he does, but he contradicts himself. That's the point. So 1431 01:43:55.279 --> 01:43:57.960 if nature and person are distinct. God's will is distinct 1432 01:43:59.079 --> 01:44:05.159 from his essence and from the persons. These are real distinctions. 1433 01:44:06.359 --> 01:44:08.239 Is the fact that they're distinct mean that God has 1434 01:44:08.359 --> 01:44:12.119 divided up into parts? Nope, And that's where the word 1435 01:44:12.319 --> 01:44:17.680 in hypostatized comes into to focus here. In hypostatize, all 1436 01:44:17.760 --> 01:44:20.680 that means is that the mode in which nature always 1437 01:44:20.720 --> 01:44:25.159 exists is in persons. Right. It's always instantiated in persons. 1438 01:44:25.960 --> 01:44:29.399 There's no abstract human nature. Human nature always is in 1439 01:44:29.520 --> 01:44:33.159 the mode of persons. Right. There is a universal human 1440 01:44:33.239 --> 01:44:35.680 nature that you and I, we all share, but it 1441 01:44:35.720 --> 01:44:38.840 always exists in the mode of some person. It's in me, 1442 01:44:39.039 --> 01:44:41.359 it's in you, right, and it's common. We all share it. 1443 01:44:41.960 --> 01:44:44.680 And in the same way in God, there's a common 1444 01:44:44.840 --> 01:44:50.439 unified nature. Right, but three persons. Now, the mode of 1445 01:44:50.520 --> 01:44:52.279 being that God has is different from the mode of 1446 01:44:52.319 --> 01:44:54.800 being that humans have. Right. So, even though we're saying 1447 01:44:54.880 --> 01:44:58.399 that there's in hypostatized for both God and for humans, 1448 01:44:59.000 --> 01:45:02.399 God doesn't exist separate human right, It's not like three 1449 01:45:02.600 --> 01:45:07.800 different beings. Right. We believe in the Father is the 1450 01:45:07.920 --> 01:45:11.039 source of unity because he communicates that divinity to the 1451 01:45:11.359 --> 01:45:14.800 son into the Spirit and also, each of these three 1452 01:45:14.840 --> 01:45:18.239 persons dwell one another. So the Father fully imperfectly endwells 1453 01:45:18.239 --> 01:45:20.920 the Son and the Spirit. The Spirit perfectly and fully 1454 01:45:21.039 --> 01:45:29.479 dwells the Father and the Son et Sara Sarah. If 1455 01:45:29.520 --> 01:45:37.119 you identify the existence, person an essence of God in 1456 01:45:37.239 --> 01:45:40.479 a real sense, all as if they are perfectly simple. 1457 01:45:41.279 --> 01:45:43.199 Saint Gregory then moves on to say that you will 1458 01:45:43.239 --> 01:45:46.159 be an atheist, and this position will end in atheism. 1459 01:45:48.640 --> 01:45:51.359 And the fact that we call God one does not 1460 01:45:51.560 --> 01:45:56.880 mean that he's undifferentiated. If you believe in actus purists, 1461 01:45:57.159 --> 01:46:00.000 you should be a modalist. He says, how many times 1462 01:46:00.119 --> 01:46:01.000 have you heard me say that? 1463 01:46:02.720 --> 01:46:03.239 Many times? 1464 01:46:05.000 --> 01:46:07.520 Now somebody will say, yeah, but John Damascus, this is 1465 01:46:07.600 --> 01:46:11.199 what next. Barlem moves then to say yeah, but wait, wait, wait, 1466 01:46:11.239 --> 01:46:16.239 but John Damascus says God is not composed of substance 1467 01:46:16.319 --> 01:46:20.760 an accident. Gotcha, bro, Now, look how stupid this is, 1468 01:46:20.920 --> 01:46:23.560 because not only does John Damascus say, of course God 1469 01:46:23.640 --> 01:46:25.760 is not composed of substance and accident. But that's because 1470 01:46:25.800 --> 01:46:29.600 the uncreated energies aren't accidents, right, They're not accidents in God. 1471 01:46:30.840 --> 01:46:30.960 Uh. 1472 01:46:32.119 --> 01:46:35.119 And John Damascus goes on at great length from book 1473 01:46:35.199 --> 01:46:39.359 one using the argument for essence introducing in there to 1474 01:46:39.520 --> 01:46:42.560 applying it to Christology. And every one of these Tomas, 1475 01:46:42.680 --> 01:46:45.520 especially Mathema, are completely dishonest because if they would read 1476 01:46:45.560 --> 01:46:47.920 the work, they would know they would see that he 1477 01:46:48.119 --> 01:46:50.880 uses the essence introducinction in book one to apply that 1478 01:46:51.039 --> 01:46:53.560 to the Christology and the energies in Christ in book 1479 01:46:53.600 --> 01:46:57.199 three the energies in Christ. Right, And there's a come 1480 01:46:57.279 --> 01:46:59.720 up with a million different objections. He's not talking about 1481 01:46:59.760 --> 01:47:02.000 inner God, He's just talking about energy in general. No, 1482 01:47:02.279 --> 01:47:05.720 the section is about the energy is in Christ. What 1483 01:47:05.880 --> 01:47:12.840 a bunch of liars. So Barleam pulls the trick that 1484 01:47:12.960 --> 01:47:15.840 Aldo Thomas pull, which is that well, John Damascus says 1485 01:47:15.880 --> 01:47:18.560 God's not composed and he doesn't have accidents, correct, and 1486 01:47:18.680 --> 01:47:20.960 the energies are not accidents. Now let's look at another 1487 01:47:21.760 --> 01:47:25.439 argument that doctor Taylor Marshall has used, and he's relied 1488 01:47:25.479 --> 01:47:27.960 on this. I refuted this argument in a comments debate 1489 01:47:28.159 --> 01:47:31.560 ten years ago, and he still uses the same dumb argument. 1490 01:47:32.640 --> 01:47:35.720 Point I refuted this in the lectures on John Damascus. 1491 01:47:36.920 --> 01:47:41.159 Taylor Marshall says, yeah, but Basil says God's essence is one. 1492 01:47:41.800 --> 01:47:45.159 Of course, it's his essence is one he says God 1493 01:47:45.800 --> 01:47:48.800 say John Damascus says God's energy is one. Therefore, absolutely 1494 01:47:48.840 --> 01:47:54.199 my simplicity, You dishonest person, read the book. The book 1495 01:47:54.359 --> 01:47:58.399 doesn't just say God's energy is one. It says God's 1496 01:47:58.439 --> 01:48:06.399 energy is one and multip They love to do this. 1497 01:48:06.960 --> 01:48:11.039 They quote Hunt and rip it out and ignore the 1498 01:48:11.159 --> 01:48:14.279 entire context. They do it with Athenacius, where they ignore 1499 01:48:14.319 --> 01:48:16.199 the fact that the entire context of the debate is 1500 01:48:16.239 --> 01:48:21.279 about God's actions being distinct from his nature. They do 1501 01:48:21.319 --> 01:48:23.319 it with Johnamascus where they pull out the quot where 1502 01:48:23.359 --> 01:48:25.439 he says that God's energy is one, and then they 1503 01:48:25.520 --> 01:48:27.399 leave out the part where he later says God's energy 1504 01:48:27.479 --> 01:48:31.079 is also multiple. They set up the dialectics all the time. 1505 01:48:33.680 --> 01:48:35.640 By the way, we want to add a little adendum 1506 01:48:35.680 --> 01:48:39.399 here which refutes the modernists and the Ecumenus, where the 1507 01:48:39.439 --> 01:48:43.720 Saint Gregor Palomas in chapter thirty five launches into a 1508 01:48:43.840 --> 01:48:47.960 lengthy discussion well one page, that the scriptures are an 1509 01:48:48.039 --> 01:48:50.560 errant they do not contain errors, they are God inspired 1510 01:48:50.600 --> 01:48:53.560 in every respect, they do not have theological errors. They're 1511 01:48:53.560 --> 01:48:56.680 not historically inaccurate, and you have to believe this. I 1512 01:48:56.840 --> 01:48:59.439 have stressed this over and over and over, you can't 1513 01:48:59.479 --> 01:49:08.159 believe that the scriptures are have errors. Next, Gregory Pelmus 1514 01:49:08.199 --> 01:49:12.600 stresses again the person nature distinction is similar to the 1515 01:49:12.680 --> 01:49:15.720 distinction between the cause the father being the cause of 1516 01:49:15.760 --> 01:49:18.399 the son. Now he's not saying that the same, but 1517 01:49:18.439 --> 01:49:20.920 he's saying that we believe in a real distinction between 1518 01:49:20.960 --> 01:49:23.039 person and nature and God. If we didn't, we would 1519 01:49:23.079 --> 01:49:25.600 be modalists. We also believe in a real distinction between 1520 01:49:25.680 --> 01:49:29.359 father as the sole cause and the son has caused. Right, 1521 01:49:29.640 --> 01:49:33.359 that is a real distinction, That is a real eternal generation. 1522 01:49:33.840 --> 01:49:37.039 That is a real distinction between father, son, and spirit. 1523 01:49:37.520 --> 01:49:42.079 He says, therefore, distinction is not composition or division. He 1524 01:49:42.199 --> 01:49:45.159 then goes on to cite Saint Athanasius and Saint John 1525 01:49:45.239 --> 01:49:50.880 Damascus at length in multiple places in this regard. Next, 1526 01:49:50.960 --> 01:49:55.600 he re emphasizes Saint Basil's arguments from Letter one eighty 1527 01:49:55.680 --> 01:50:01.319 nine about common energies signifying common nature, and then he 1528 01:50:01.399 --> 01:50:03.399 goes on to make the argument that if you were consistent, 1529 01:50:03.560 --> 01:50:06.000 you would be a modalist and a Eunomian, and that 1530 01:50:06.399 --> 01:50:10.199 Eunomius was more consistent than the Roman Catholic because Eunomius 1531 01:50:10.920 --> 01:50:13.119 believed in absolute to my simplicity and said that if 1532 01:50:13.119 --> 01:50:16.680 there's any distinctions and the Son is really distinct, then 1533 01:50:16.760 --> 01:50:21.000 he is not the same essence, and he would compromise 1534 01:50:21.159 --> 01:50:24.560 the perfect unity of God. That's Eunomius's argument. Eunomius is 1535 01:50:24.600 --> 01:50:27.520 more consistent than the Roman Catholics. Eunomia says, I'm a 1536 01:50:27.600 --> 01:50:32.880 modalist because if I admit that distinction entails division and composition, 1537 01:50:33.520 --> 01:50:35.359 and if I admit that the Sun is distinct, then 1538 01:50:35.399 --> 01:50:37.319 he's not of the same essence as the Father. He's 1539 01:50:37.359 --> 01:50:44.600 some other kind of being. Next, Saint Gregor Palamus cites 1540 01:50:44.640 --> 01:50:48.520 Saint Basil in against Eunomius, Chapter one, section eight, where 1541 01:50:49.000 --> 01:50:52.439 Saint Basil says that the simplicity doctrine where you unite 1542 01:50:52.479 --> 01:50:54.760 all the energies and actions in God and I say 1543 01:50:54.800 --> 01:50:57.359 that they are identical to the essence, is absurd. Once again, 1544 01:50:57.439 --> 01:51:03.159 Taylor Marshall and all these people are dishonest or they're ignorant. Next, 1545 01:51:03.239 --> 01:51:05.760 he says that you believe that in the resurrection you 1546 01:51:05.800 --> 01:51:08.920 will actually see the essence of God. He says that's 1547 01:51:08.960 --> 01:51:11.319 called the heresy of the Massallians who believed that they 1548 01:51:11.359 --> 01:51:14.439 saw the essence of God. Next, he says that when 1549 01:51:14.520 --> 01:51:16.880 Paul saw the divine light in Acts nine three and 1550 01:51:16.960 --> 01:51:20.680 Acts twenty two six, that was not a creature. Paul 1551 01:51:20.720 --> 01:51:25.760 actually saw Christ. Next, he moves to the famous letter 1552 01:51:25.840 --> 01:51:28.079 of Saint Basil Letter two thirty four, where Basil in 1553 01:51:28.199 --> 01:51:30.239 one page are used for the essence introduce section very 1554 01:51:30.279 --> 01:51:32.439 clearly saying that if you believe that all these are 1555 01:51:32.439 --> 01:51:34.880 identical to the essence of God, you are fool. And 1556 01:51:35.000 --> 01:51:37.920 he says that Saint Basil can say this and still 1557 01:51:38.000 --> 01:51:42.319 believe that God is perfectly holy, one and united. We 1558 01:51:42.399 --> 01:51:45.880 all participate in God in different ways, showing that distinction 1559 01:51:46.119 --> 01:51:49.600 is not division. Right, So he gets barleym to the 1560 01:51:49.640 --> 01:51:52.960 Barley might to admit this, if God is pure essence 1561 01:51:53.399 --> 01:51:57.039 and that we do really participate in God, then it 1562 01:51:57.079 --> 01:52:05.039 would lead to pantheism, correct Saint Gregory says. He then 1563 01:52:05.199 --> 01:52:07.920 restresses the fact that on one Corinthians twelve says that 1564 01:52:07.960 --> 01:52:11.560 there are different innergaya, different energies of the spirit one 1565 01:52:11.680 --> 01:52:15.840 Corinthians twelve, and those energies are actually and truly different. Therefore, 1566 01:52:16.079 --> 01:52:19.319 they're not identical, and they're not merely created effects. They 1567 01:52:19.359 --> 01:52:25.279 are uncreated. God is then multiple in a unified way 1568 01:52:25.439 --> 01:52:30.560 and unified in his multiplicity. Did you hear that God 1569 01:52:30.760 --> 01:52:35.279 is unified in a multiple way and multiple in a 1570 01:52:35.399 --> 01:52:39.439 unified way. That's the Orthodox doctrine, because we don't believe 1571 01:52:39.439 --> 01:52:41.920 in dialectics, and we don't believe in the stupid heresies 1572 01:52:42.479 --> 01:52:47.359 of Barley. They are called stupid heresies. Now, if they're 1573 01:52:47.399 --> 01:52:51.800 called stupid heresies by Saint Gregory Palamos, can we then 1574 01:52:51.960 --> 01:52:55.880 unite with the Roman Catholic mister ecumenists, No, we can't. 1575 01:52:57.159 --> 01:53:04.079 If they're called stupid heresies, then obviously they're different. Next, 1576 01:53:04.159 --> 01:53:07.279 he quotes to Saint Maximus. Sat Maximus says that the 1577 01:53:07.359 --> 01:53:11.560 Saints get the same uncreated energy that God has. And 1578 01:53:11.840 --> 01:53:18.199 that is let's see where that is. The Saints get 1579 01:53:18.239 --> 01:53:22.279 the same energy as God. That is from Saint Maximus. 1580 01:53:24.000 --> 01:53:26.600 It's in two places. It's in the letter to Marhinus 1581 01:53:26.800 --> 01:53:30.479 ninety one and it's in on Problems, section ninety one. 1582 01:53:36.560 --> 01:53:38.600 If you believe that you see God, you have the 1583 01:53:38.680 --> 01:53:49.319 doctrine of the Messallians. We as Orthodox, believe in divine simplicity. 1584 01:53:49.439 --> 01:53:51.920 We do not believe God is composed. He's not divided, 1585 01:53:52.039 --> 01:53:55.359 he doesn't have parts. And he says that I will 1586 01:53:55.399 --> 01:53:58.680 solve this dilemma for you. The divine is one. It 1587 01:53:58.800 --> 01:54:02.720 is simple. God has one essence. That one is is 1588 01:54:03.479 --> 01:54:08.479 is that one is, in an appropriate way, a whole 1589 01:54:08.720 --> 01:54:11.640 w h O l E. In relation to all things 1590 01:54:11.680 --> 01:54:15.479 that we think about it. God is not divided, He's 1591 01:54:15.560 --> 01:54:19.000 not split. He does not have parts. For it is 1592 01:54:19.079 --> 01:54:22.720 then a whole goodness, a whole wisdom, a whole justice, 1593 01:54:22.800 --> 01:54:26.840 a whole power, just as we as we experience him. 1594 01:54:26.880 --> 01:54:34.319 He's saying, He says, we think about God this way, 1595 01:54:34.600 --> 01:54:36.560 it is this. It is this in our thoughts, he says, 1596 01:54:36.600 --> 01:54:39.119 but it is not. It does not become this because 1597 01:54:39.159 --> 01:54:41.159 of because of our thoughts. In other words, it really 1598 01:54:41.279 --> 01:54:43.960 is this, not even when it is thought, but because 1599 01:54:44.000 --> 01:54:46.800 it is such from all eternity. Did you hear that? 1600 01:54:47.680 --> 01:54:51.000 What does the Thomas say? What do the Ecumenists say? 1601 01:54:51.239 --> 01:54:54.159 They say that Sant Gregor Palmas says that it's a 1602 01:54:54.199 --> 01:54:59.520 conceptual distinction. It's not real. It is not this because 1603 01:54:59.560 --> 01:55:03.399 of our and even when it is thought, it is 1604 01:55:03.520 --> 01:55:07.840 not this. But it is this from all eternity, because 1605 01:55:09.000 --> 01:55:14.439 these attributes manifest themselves through his works. So God is 1606 01:55:14.840 --> 01:55:18.199 one in as many works, and he's also multiple in 1607 01:55:18.319 --> 01:55:21.439 his many works, there is no dialectical tension between the 1608 01:55:21.479 --> 01:55:23.800 one and the many and God. We don't set the 1609 01:55:24.000 --> 01:55:26.359 essence of God over against the multiplicity in God. We 1610 01:55:26.399 --> 01:55:28.640 don't set the multiplicity in God over against the essence 1611 01:55:28.680 --> 01:55:31.399 of God. He's not more one than he is three. 1612 01:55:31.479 --> 01:55:35.680 He's not more three than he is one. He's perfectly one, 1613 01:55:36.319 --> 01:55:46.159 but he's also genuinely three. Next, he quotes Saint John 1614 01:55:46.239 --> 01:55:51.560 Christistom to the effect that the deifying grace that we 1615 01:55:51.680 --> 01:55:56.000 get is an energy of God, and that energy, in 1616 01:55:56.560 --> 01:56:00.359 order to deify us, is not created. We are not 1617 01:56:00.520 --> 01:56:03.239 deified if we are only giving another, if we are 1618 01:56:03.319 --> 01:56:08.119 given merely another creature. Salvation is not the giving of 1619 01:56:08.119 --> 01:56:12.239 another creature to us, but the uncreated to us. That's 1620 01:56:12.319 --> 01:56:15.960 how we become immortal. That's how we have eternal life. 1621 01:56:16.880 --> 01:56:20.880 Eternal life is not just created life. It's eternal life, 1622 01:56:21.000 --> 01:56:25.119 you see. Next he talks about the angelic nature and 1623 01:56:25.199 --> 01:56:28.560 how even that is created, makes some more distinctions between 1624 01:56:29.199 --> 01:56:31.479 human nature and angelic nature, but then he talks about 1625 01:56:31.600 --> 01:56:35.359 how the being of God is different. The book then 1626 01:56:35.640 --> 01:56:40.560 ends with the Barleamite admitting that he was incorrect, especially 1627 01:56:40.640 --> 01:56:44.119 after dozens of citations from the church fathers on the 1628 01:56:44.159 --> 01:56:48.479 distinction being real, and he says that those who are 1629 01:56:48.680 --> 01:56:52.600 haters of this and haters of Saint Gregor Palamas were 1630 01:56:52.680 --> 01:56:57.199 in fact actually envious and jealous. There you go. So 1631 01:56:57.359 --> 01:57:03.439 that is the summation of the dispute with Barleum, the 1632 01:57:03.520 --> 01:57:09.239 debate with Barleum. Clearly, the Ecumenists are incorrect. This is 1633 01:57:09.319 --> 01:57:12.920 not reconcilable with Tomism. Clearly Barleum says all the same 1634 01:57:12.960 --> 01:57:17.279 stuff as a quitas. Clearly, after this period the Roman 1635 01:57:17.359 --> 01:57:21.960 Catholic Church adopted the Barleumite type position across the board. 1636 01:57:22.079 --> 01:57:24.800 I don't just mean on propositions about what simplicity is. 1637 01:57:24.920 --> 01:57:28.399 I mean about God's simplicity. I mean about Christology. I 1638 01:57:28.439 --> 01:57:31.119 mean about the philioque, I mean about creative grace. I 1639 01:57:31.199 --> 01:57:33.239 mean about the sacraments, I mean about the Beetic vision. 1640 01:57:33.239 --> 01:57:35.319 And I mean about no doction of the news. That's 1641 01:57:35.600 --> 01:57:40.760 the critique. And by the way, the papacy itself is 1642 01:57:40.840 --> 01:57:46.359 also an outworking of divine simplicity. The imbalance of the 1643 01:57:46.439 --> 01:57:48.119 one and the many in the Trinity in the Roman 1644 01:57:48.159 --> 01:57:51.239 Catholic conception has led to the doctrine of the imbalance 1645 01:57:51.359 --> 01:57:53.119 of the one and the many in the church. That's 1646 01:57:53.199 --> 01:57:55.760 exactly why they have a supervision, because they have a 1647 01:57:55.800 --> 01:58:03.000 super essence, a super essence that's absolute, simple, right, all right, 1648 01:58:03.119 --> 01:58:05.960 So we see that the acumenists are wrong. We see 1649 01:58:06.039 --> 01:58:10.680 that it's uh. He calls the heretics stupid and heretics 1650 01:58:10.920 --> 01:58:14.000 and he and then the last point that we wanted 1651 01:58:14.079 --> 01:58:18.640 to make was once again in the different essay of 1652 01:58:18.840 --> 01:58:24.800 Father Fluorowsky, the essay called Saint Gregory Palamas in the 1653 01:58:24.840 --> 01:58:26.119 tradition of the fathers. 1654 01:58:26.800 --> 01:58:26.920 Uh. 1655 01:58:27.079 --> 01:58:30.159 Here we have the explanation of why this is dogmatic. 1656 01:58:30.319 --> 01:58:32.079 So I'm gonna put that in the chat. There there 1657 01:58:32.199 --> 01:58:38.680 is the other essay, and let's look at one of 1658 01:58:38.720 --> 01:58:47.520 the a couple of the quotes here from Fluorovsky. Saint 1659 01:58:47.560 --> 01:58:53.319 Gregory begins with the distinction between grace, essence and energy. 1660 01:58:55.479 --> 01:58:58.399 The divine and divinizing illumination of grace is not the essence, 1661 01:58:58.439 --> 01:59:01.800 but the energy of God. Right. The basic distinction was 1662 01:59:01.880 --> 01:59:05.640 formally accepted and elaborated at the Great Councils of Constantinople 1663 01:59:05.680 --> 01:59:09.199 thirteen forty one, thirteen fifty two, thirteen forty one, thirty 1664 01:59:09.239 --> 01:59:13.119 fifty one. Those who would deny this distinction are anathematized 1665 01:59:13.239 --> 01:59:17.279 and excommunicated. Did you hear that, Ecumenists, you cannot deny this? 1666 01:59:17.439 --> 01:59:21.760 Did you hear that David Bentley heart fordom you are excommunicated. 1667 01:59:22.840 --> 01:59:25.840 The anathemas of the Council of six fifty one were 1668 01:59:25.920 --> 01:59:29.199 included in the right for the Sunday of Orthodoxy in 1669 01:59:29.239 --> 01:59:33.800 the Triodion Orthodoxy. Elogians are bound by this decision. Do 1670 01:59:33.920 --> 01:59:38.680 you see that therefore we cannot unite with tumism. The 1671 01:59:38.840 --> 01:59:43.960 essence of God absolutely is incommunicable. The source and power 1672 01:59:44.960 --> 01:59:47.359 of human theosis is not the divine essence, but the 1673 01:59:47.439 --> 01:59:53.439 grace of God, the inner gaia, the divinizing energy by 1674 01:59:53.479 --> 01:59:56.680 participation of which one is devinized as a divine grace. 1675 01:59:56.800 --> 02:00:00.960 It is no way the essence of God or grace 1676 02:00:01.079 --> 02:00:04.039 is not identical to the uzia of the essence. Right 1677 02:00:05.840 --> 02:00:09.760 divine grace is an uncreated grace and energy. This distinction, however, 1678 02:00:09.840 --> 02:00:14.640 does not imply or affect division or separation. Here is 1679 02:00:14.800 --> 02:00:16.680 one of the greatest theologians of the twentieth century in 1680 02:00:16.680 --> 02:00:20.000 the Orthodox Church, Father Florowski, saying what you've heard me 1681 02:00:20.119 --> 02:00:24.880 say five hundred times. Nor is the uncreated grace an accident? 1682 02:00:25.159 --> 02:00:27.840 Do you see this? Thomas. He's telling you what I've 1683 02:00:27.840 --> 02:00:31.920 been telling you, but you don't listen. Energies proceed from 1684 02:00:31.960 --> 02:00:35.479 God and manifest his own being. The term proceed simply 1685 02:00:35.520 --> 02:00:38.680 suggests a distinction. Right, We're not talking about eternal procession 1686 02:00:38.680 --> 02:00:40.479 of the spirit here, is just using it in a 1687 02:00:40.720 --> 02:00:44.000 general sense here of coming from, but not a division. 1688 02:00:46.399 --> 02:00:48.600 The grace of the spirit is different from the substance 1689 02:00:48.680 --> 02:00:52.359 and yet not separated from it. Now what Roman Catholic 1690 02:00:52.560 --> 02:00:55.880 believes this? Maybe some of these uniates, but so what 1691 02:00:56.359 --> 02:01:02.319 the rest of their church rejects this? And let's read this. 1692 02:01:03.760 --> 02:01:07.880 Saint Gregory quotes Saint Cyril of Alexandria. Can you see that? 1693 02:01:08.359 --> 02:01:11.119 But Saint Cyril at this point was simply repeating Athanasius, 1694 02:01:11.479 --> 02:01:13.800 what have you been telling? Hearing me say the essence 1695 02:01:13.840 --> 02:01:17.520 s energy distinction is Athanasius's argument against the arians. If 1696 02:01:17.560 --> 02:01:20.000 you don't get that, you're a fool, and his reputation 1697 02:01:20.119 --> 02:01:24.199 of arianism. He formally stressed the ultimate difference between the 1698 02:01:24.319 --> 02:01:27.479 essence of God or the effusus the nature substance on 1699 02:01:27.560 --> 02:01:31.439 the one hand, and the will on the other, distinction 1700 02:01:31.600 --> 02:01:33.920 between will and counsel. If you read the other essay 1701 02:01:33.960 --> 02:01:36.840 where he covers this right and the essence of God. 1702 02:01:38.039 --> 02:01:40.920 This is why the Son is not a projection or 1703 02:01:40.960 --> 02:01:44.119 a result of the Father's will or energy or work, 1704 02:01:44.640 --> 02:01:47.279 but is in fact a direct offspring of the Father's nature. 1705 02:01:48.439 --> 02:01:51.760 That's my quote. Indeed, not a necessity of compulsion, no 1706 02:01:51.880 --> 02:01:54.960 faught to them, but a necessity of being itself. God 1707 02:01:55.079 --> 02:01:58.439 simply is what he is. God's will is eminently free. 1708 02:01:59.239 --> 02:02:01.920 He is in no sense necessitated to do what he does. Therefore, 1709 02:02:02.000 --> 02:02:04.439 creation is not identical to the act of creating, is 1710 02:02:04.479 --> 02:02:07.920 therefore not identical to the essence of God. The essence 1711 02:02:07.920 --> 02:02:10.079 of God is what it is by necessity if creation, 1712 02:02:10.479 --> 02:02:12.439 if the act of creating is identical to the essence 1713 02:02:12.479 --> 02:02:16.279 of God, then creating the world is just as necessary 1714 02:02:16.319 --> 02:02:19.319 as the essence of God. It's stupid. That's why Basil 1715 02:02:19.359 --> 02:02:20.039 calls it stupid. 1716 02:02:22.279 --> 02:02:22.399 Uh. 1717 02:02:22.600 --> 02:02:25.960 And so he then cites the section where the this 1718 02:02:26.159 --> 02:02:31.560 is dealt with in Contrarianos against the Arians, where he 1719 02:02:32.079 --> 02:02:34.399 talks about the energy of the will being distinct from 1720 02:02:34.399 --> 02:02:39.359 the nature. Athanasius teaches the essence energy distinction. There you go, 1721 02:02:40.079 --> 02:02:43.520 now shut your mouths. Of course, this distinction does not 1722 02:02:44.079 --> 02:02:47.279 compromise to buying simplicity. It is a real distinction. It 1723 02:02:47.359 --> 02:02:49.920 is not just a logical device. Can you hear that, Tomass? 1724 02:02:50.039 --> 02:02:52.239 Can you hear that? Can you hear that? Saint Gregory 1725 02:02:52.399 --> 02:02:55.279 was fully aware of the crucial import importance of this 1726 02:02:55.319 --> 02:02:57.479 distinction at this point. He is a true successor of 1727 02:02:57.520 --> 02:03:00.479 Athenasius and the Cappadocians, and so are we and you 1728 02:03:00.640 --> 02:03:08.159 are not all right? There we go very clear. Now 1729 02:03:08.239 --> 02:03:11.319 I will be taking questions. The next half of this 1730 02:03:11.479 --> 02:03:14.079 we will delve into the quotes that he uses from 1731 02:03:14.079 --> 02:03:18.640 Saint Maximus, will delve into the logi. Right, it's time 1732 02:03:18.720 --> 02:03:22.479 to return to the logos logi distinction in Saint Maximus, 1733 02:03:22.560 --> 02:03:26.680 the exemplars and how the Orthodox view believes them to 1734 02:03:26.800 --> 02:03:31.000 be created. Excuse me, uncreated energies, uncreated thought wills we 1735 02:03:31.119 --> 02:03:34.039 call them, and not exemplars in the essence of God 1736 02:03:34.159 --> 02:03:38.479 like the Thomas say, because that would lead to a 1737 02:03:38.640 --> 02:03:45.600 necessary creation. So there's that, and I'll take your super chats. 1738 02:03:46.119 --> 02:03:48.000 If you want to subscribe, you can go to Jasonelsons 1739 02:03:48.039 --> 02:03:50.439 dot com. You'll see the members subscribe to become a 1740 02:03:50.520 --> 02:03:53.439 member for all of the archives and the part two talks. 1741 02:03:54.239 --> 02:03:56.119 So if you want, if you're interested in Saint Maximus 1742 02:03:56.159 --> 02:04:00.319 and his statements on the logi, how the logo are 1743 02:04:00.319 --> 02:04:05.000 also uncreated energies, how he cites say Maximus. That's what 1744 02:04:05.119 --> 02:04:07.479 we'll talk about in part two. I've had many, many, 1745 02:04:07.520 --> 02:04:10.880 many requests for more on this from Maximus, so that's 1746 02:04:10.880 --> 02:04:13.520 what we're going to do in part two. But because 1747 02:04:13.600 --> 02:04:17.119 of the recent debates and controversies and events, this was 1748 02:04:17.800 --> 02:04:21.600 very timely both against the Ecumenists and the Roman Catholics 1749 02:04:21.840 --> 02:04:25.920 to show the distinction of the position. So I wanted 1750 02:04:25.960 --> 02:04:29.640 to make that whole book public. In terms of the discussion, 1751 02:04:30.000 --> 02:04:32.479 we'll get into the deeper stuff with Maximus and the 1752 02:04:32.560 --> 02:04:36.000 low GI in the second part. For subscribers, I'm going 1753 02:04:36.079 --> 02:04:38.479 to put the link into the chat right now. If 1754 02:04:38.520 --> 02:04:40.359 you want to subscribe to Jason Elysis for that, you 1755 02:04:40.439 --> 02:04:43.199 can do that over at my website. There you can 1756 02:04:43.239 --> 02:04:47.439 subscribe by paper or credit card. You can also get 1757 02:04:47.479 --> 02:04:50.439 my book. There are two books on philosophy and film 1758 02:04:51.000 --> 02:04:58.920 Start Hollywood one and two there for you and to subscribe. 1759 02:05:06.720 --> 02:05:09.720 Here is the link at the top for the tab 1760 02:05:10.319 --> 02:05:12.239 to subscribe to the website if you want to subscribe. 1761 02:05:13.600 --> 02:05:16.119 So there's that. You can also do it through Patreon 1762 02:05:16.279 --> 02:05:20.600 if you want to, and tutoring. Tutoring is available through patroon. 1763 02:05:22.079 --> 02:05:26.760 All right, let's get to some of these subgests. Hunter 1764 02:05:26.960 --> 02:05:30.439 twenty three ninety nine pounds as you ask, thank you 1765 02:05:30.520 --> 02:05:34.600 for asking. Hunter, appreciate that Hollywood Decoded two is not 1766 02:05:34.760 --> 02:05:39.279 going to happen. Unfortunately it was not. They did not 1767 02:05:39.399 --> 02:05:42.720 want to purchase another season. And I don't think our 1768 02:05:42.760 --> 02:05:45.560 other TV show is going to be purchased either. But 1769 02:05:45.640 --> 02:05:48.479 that's okay. TV shows come and go. There will be 1770 02:05:49.279 --> 02:05:51.920 more futures, I'm sure for all that kind of stuff. 1771 02:05:51.960 --> 02:05:53.920 And Hunter again says, it's a shame. It is a shame. 1772 02:05:53.920 --> 02:05:56.760 It would have been nice to have Hollywood to Code 1773 02:05:56.800 --> 02:05:59.720 season two or the other show that we were going 1774 02:05:59.800 --> 02:06:03.279 to do, Pop a Culture would have been cool. Maybe 1775 02:06:03.319 --> 02:06:06.000 we can maybe those will still get picked up. You know, 1776 02:06:06.079 --> 02:06:15.039 you never know. Uh Shale eight four nine, Jay, I'm 1777 02:06:15.079 --> 02:06:17.199 new to Orthodoxy and the only church nam he is Greek. 1778 02:06:17.199 --> 02:06:19.600 I've been going to liturgies and was wondering what I 1779 02:06:19.640 --> 02:06:22.119 should be wary of or asked the priests about. Well, 1780 02:06:22.159 --> 02:06:26.800 I mean you don't have to ask him questions to 1781 02:06:26.840 --> 02:06:29.039 see if you're wary. I mean you should be able 1782 02:06:29.079 --> 02:06:32.079 to get a feel for the church, for you know, 1783 02:06:32.359 --> 02:06:34.479 going there for a while to see if it's if 1784 02:06:34.520 --> 02:06:38.439 it's good or bad. But I mean, if you want 1785 02:06:38.479 --> 02:06:41.319 a simple test question, you could just say, do you 1786 02:06:42.319 --> 02:06:45.920 believe in higher critical approaches to the Bible? 1787 02:06:46.680 --> 02:06:46.800 Uh? 1788 02:06:46.880 --> 02:06:49.319 And do you believe and accept Freemasonry? Those are two 1789 02:06:49.399 --> 02:06:52.479 good test questions. And if he says that he believes 1790 02:06:52.479 --> 02:06:55.560 in higher criticism, then you know you have a modernist. 1791 02:06:56.279 --> 02:06:59.600 Or if he says he is cool with Freemasonry, then 1792 02:06:59.640 --> 02:07:01.600 you know that you probably should find a different one. 1793 02:07:03.039 --> 02:07:06.119 Are Juan non sequitor of five pounds? Doesn't the change 1794 02:07:06.239 --> 02:07:08.960 in the change in the tropos of the sun imply 1795 02:07:09.119 --> 02:07:12.319 a change in the hypostasis? Is a hypostasis divine or 1796 02:07:12.399 --> 02:07:15.880 divine human? What does the anthropos mean? Again? I feel 1797 02:07:15.920 --> 02:07:19.359 like I know who this is. I would let me, 1798 02:07:19.520 --> 02:07:21.720 you know, let me just get John Damascus out for you. 1799 02:07:25.119 --> 02:07:28.560 And I actually went and read the sections to all 1800 02:07:28.640 --> 02:07:32.159 the sections that I think you know who you are 1801 02:07:32.359 --> 02:07:36.439 sent to me. The first thing I will say is 1802 02:07:36.479 --> 02:07:41.119 that if you look at how in hypostatized is used 1803 02:07:41.239 --> 02:07:43.880 in the Philosophical chapters, you will notice that in chapter 1804 02:07:44.000 --> 02:07:47.239 twenty nine he talks about two different senses to the 1805 02:07:47.319 --> 02:07:49.399 way that this term is used. Sometimes it's used to 1806 02:07:49.520 --> 02:07:52.399 just talk about the way that human beings are, and 1807 02:07:52.520 --> 02:07:56.359 sometimes it's used to talk about the individual in itself, 1808 02:07:57.319 --> 02:08:01.479 in itself. Did you hear that in itself? Now? 1809 02:08:01.920 --> 02:08:02.039 Uh? 1810 02:08:02.079 --> 02:08:07.039 Huh? If you move over to chapter forty one, he 1811 02:08:07.319 --> 02:08:11.600 will tell you what it means. That what the hypostasis 1812 02:08:11.840 --> 02:08:18.600 becoming composite means one compound Hypostatius made from two natures. 1813 02:08:20.439 --> 02:08:23.760 The very thing I told you the whole time. The 1814 02:08:23.840 --> 02:08:29.640 hypostasis is personhood, correct, right, it's pre eternal. So Jesus 1815 02:08:29.760 --> 02:08:35.479 was a person from all eternity. What he assumed made 1816 02:08:35.560 --> 02:08:39.479 him composite. But what did he assume a nature? Right, 1817 02:08:41.239 --> 02:08:46.159 he's composite because he has two natures, one compound hypostasis 1818 02:08:46.640 --> 02:08:49.840 from two divine natures. Excuse me, from two natures, two 1819 02:08:49.880 --> 02:08:53.239 diverse natures, he says, one human, one divine. You see, 1820 02:08:55.079 --> 02:08:58.960 So I am not denying that he's composite, and I 1821 02:08:59.000 --> 02:09:02.520 don't have a problem saying that hypostasis is the subject 1822 02:09:02.880 --> 02:09:05.880 which is composite. But it's not the hypostasis itself, because, 1823 02:09:05.960 --> 02:09:09.720 as both down Damascus and Saint Maximus say, he he 1824 02:09:10.439 --> 02:09:14.239 is a reference to hypostasis personhood. He remained in himself 1825 02:09:14.359 --> 02:09:19.000 what he was. He remained what he was when he 1826 02:09:19.079 --> 02:09:24.960 assumed human nature. There was no alteration in the hypostasis itself, 1827 02:09:25.760 --> 02:09:29.279 in itself, because it's from all eternity. Now, when we 1828 02:09:29.399 --> 02:09:35.159 move on to chapter forty three, he discusses person what 1829 02:09:35.359 --> 02:09:40.760 is hypostasis? Right, and he talks about operations from the hypostasis, 1830 02:09:41.640 --> 02:09:43.000 and he says that one should know that the Holy 1831 02:09:43.079 --> 02:09:46.560 Fathers use the term hypostasis, person and individual in the 1832 02:09:46.640 --> 02:09:51.119 same way. So, for example, Peter and Paul are hypostasis, right, 1833 02:09:51.199 --> 02:09:54.000 but they have one common nature. Then he goes on 1834 02:09:54.079 --> 02:09:58.199 to discuss in hypostaton or in hyposthetized. He uses it 1835 02:09:58.359 --> 02:10:01.520 in the damn same sense that I told you that. 1836 02:10:01.640 --> 02:10:04.159 It means that the only mode or tropos in which 1837 02:10:05.359 --> 02:10:09.600 nature exists is in the mode or tropos of person. 1838 02:10:12.239 --> 02:10:15.479 What is called in hypostatized is that which has assumed 1839 02:10:15.640 --> 02:10:19.239 another hypostasis, and in this it has its existence. Thus, 1840 02:10:19.319 --> 02:10:22.520 the body of the Lord, since it never subsisted of itself, 1841 02:10:23.079 --> 02:10:26.399 not even as an infant, is not a hypostasis. The 1842 02:10:26.520 --> 02:10:28.680 human nature is not a hypostasis. Right, That would be 1843 02:10:28.800 --> 02:10:33.279 the stories, but it is in hypostatized because the divine 1844 02:10:33.359 --> 02:10:38.479 person is the hypostasis. The body of Christ has as 1845 02:10:38.600 --> 02:10:43.560 its personhood the divine person of the Logos, and this 1846 02:10:43.720 --> 02:10:47.199 is because it was assumed by the Hope. Again here 1847 02:10:47.239 --> 02:10:51.159 it is forty four. Why does Christ's humanity not have 1848 02:10:51.279 --> 02:10:55.640 any hypostasis of itself? Because it was assumed by the 1849 02:10:55.720 --> 02:11:01.640 hypostasis of God the Word, and this subsisted and does 1850 02:11:01.800 --> 02:11:06.039 have this for a hypostasis. So the hypostasis of the 1851 02:11:06.079 --> 02:11:09.119 body of the Word is the eternal second person of 1852 02:11:09.119 --> 02:11:12.479 the Godhead. The only person there, the only person that's present, 1853 02:11:13.199 --> 02:11:17.039 is the second person of the Godhead. Now you said, 1854 02:11:18.600 --> 02:11:20.560 and we can go over by the way in chapter 1855 02:11:20.760 --> 02:11:26.359 sixty six where he expounds in hypostatona again the two 1856 02:11:26.560 --> 02:11:32.960 natures are what becomes hypostatically united, but they are absolutely indivisible. 1857 02:11:33.000 --> 02:11:35.399 I told you that I believe that we don't mix them. 1858 02:11:35.880 --> 02:11:39.600 And you're a heretic for calling me. You're bad willed 1859 02:11:39.680 --> 02:11:42.560 for calling me a heretic saying that I'm a Monophysite. 1860 02:11:43.880 --> 02:11:56.520 And by the way, I don't want your money. He 1861 02:11:56.680 --> 02:11:58.720 goes on in chapter sixty six to say that the 1862 02:11:59.600 --> 02:12:04.000 hypo stasis of Christ assumed an additional nature, and he 1863 02:12:04.079 --> 02:12:07.560 talks about the controversies about Saint Cyril. He says that 1864 02:12:08.520 --> 02:12:10.760 in Christ, because in him the divine and the human 1865 02:12:10.960 --> 02:12:14.640 natures are united. Right, so he becomes composite because he 1866 02:12:14.720 --> 02:12:19.000 has two natures. Right, the hypostasis itself remains what he 1867 02:12:19.319 --> 02:12:26.520 was it in terms of he remains. The hypostasis is 1868 02:12:26.560 --> 02:12:31.199 subsistence in self. He says this in this section. This 1869 02:12:31.399 --> 02:12:38.560 is section sixty six. In Christ, the divine and the 1870 02:12:38.640 --> 02:12:42.000 human natures are united, while his animate body subsisted in 1871 02:12:42.319 --> 02:12:47.359 the preexistent hypostasis of God the Word. His animate body 1872 02:12:47.439 --> 02:12:54.079 subsisted and its mode of being, its existence is in 1873 02:12:54.199 --> 02:12:57.039 the pre existent person of God the Word. He's not 1874 02:12:57.119 --> 02:12:59.600 saying that the body of Christ existed from all eternity. 1875 02:12:59.600 --> 02:13:03.800 He's saying that the body of Christ subsists in the 1876 02:13:03.960 --> 02:13:10.399 pre existent hypostasis of God the Word. This body has 1877 02:13:11.119 --> 02:13:17.439 this logos for a hypostasis. It is, however, quite impossible 1878 02:13:17.479 --> 02:13:20.399 for one compound nature to be made from two natures 1879 02:13:20.520 --> 02:13:23.760 or from one, or for one hypostasis to be made 1880 02:13:23.840 --> 02:13:27.600 from two. Did you hear me? It is quite impossible 1881 02:13:27.720 --> 02:13:30.880 for one compound nature that would be a monophysite to 1882 02:13:31.000 --> 02:13:35.359 be made from two natures, or for one hypostasis to 1883 02:13:35.479 --> 02:13:39.159 be made from two. Therefore, it's not composite in itself. 1884 02:13:39.800 --> 02:13:42.439 It is composite in the sense of having two natures. 1885 02:13:44.720 --> 02:13:47.439 The hypostasis of Christ possesses a divine nature from all 1886 02:13:47.479 --> 02:13:51.840 eternity and united himself to a human nature, the humanity. 1887 02:13:52.079 --> 02:13:55.960 The human nature has for its hypostasis the second person 1888 02:13:56.039 --> 02:14:02.359 of the Godhead. It is quite impossible for one compound 1889 02:14:02.479 --> 02:14:06.720 nature to be made from two, or for one hypostasis 1890 02:14:06.840 --> 02:14:10.000 to be made from two, And then he goes on 1891 02:14:10.079 --> 02:14:20.159 to say that the hypostasis is subsistent in itself. It 1892 02:14:20.279 --> 02:14:23.079 must further be known that in the Holy Trinity, a 1893 02:14:23.479 --> 02:14:26.760 hypostasis is the timeless mode of each eternal existence. Right, 1894 02:14:26.880 --> 02:14:32.880 so each person exists in an eternal hypostatic mode. That's 1895 02:14:32.960 --> 02:14:35.279 not modalism. I know that you know that, but some 1896 02:14:35.359 --> 02:14:37.479 people might mishear me and think that I'm talking about modalism. 1897 02:14:38.279 --> 02:14:45.279 And then he also refused this in there's a section 1898 02:14:45.520 --> 02:14:49.520 in I made a note about this, we shared it 1899 02:14:49.600 --> 02:15:05.760 in the chat. There's a section in the defense where 1900 02:15:05.800 --> 02:15:10.479 he talks about this as well, when he talks about 1901 02:15:11.239 --> 02:15:15.800 who the hypostasis is from all eternity, And how the 1902 02:15:15.920 --> 02:15:18.399 only sense in which it's composite is the two natures. 1903 02:15:20.800 --> 02:15:24.039 He suffered no alteration or change in who he was, 1904 02:15:24.680 --> 02:15:29.640 except that he became composite in assuming nature human nature. 1905 02:15:32.079 --> 02:15:33.920 And by the way, how stupid is it to call 1906 02:15:34.039 --> 02:15:41.720 us monophysite when I sit here spending countless hours arguing 1907 02:15:41.800 --> 02:15:45.199 about two energies in Christ. There's no way to be 1908 02:15:45.319 --> 02:15:48.479 monophysite and hold to two energies in Christ, because energies 1909 02:15:48.560 --> 02:15:51.199 are properties and faculties of nature. If I was monophysite, 1910 02:15:51.239 --> 02:15:53.680 there would be one energy in Christ. I wouldn't be defending. 1911 02:15:53.720 --> 02:15:57.439 I wouldn't have giant stacks of books that deal with diothelitism. 1912 02:16:01.600 --> 02:16:06.960 By the way, speaking of Christ's composite after the incarnation 1913 02:16:07.039 --> 02:16:09.560 does not mean that we continue to view him as 1914 02:16:10.439 --> 02:16:12.800 if he were separate. He is the god Man. There 1915 02:16:12.880 --> 02:16:16.800 is only, and for all eternity one god Man. That's 1916 02:16:16.840 --> 02:16:19.560 why Saint Justin Popovich's works are so good is because 1917 02:16:19.640 --> 02:16:23.199 he consistently emphasizes the god Man. But just like it's 1918 02:16:23.239 --> 02:16:26.439 not wrong to talk about the theological controversies, and therefore 1919 02:16:26.520 --> 02:16:29.720 to talk about Christ as pre existent and Christ as 1920 02:16:29.800 --> 02:16:33.040 having two natures as this book does. Dummy, it's not 1921 02:16:33.159 --> 02:16:39.639 wrong to speak that way. So let's see the section 1922 02:16:40.040 --> 02:16:43.239 that is in the defense that deals with this is 1923 02:16:43.319 --> 02:16:55.479 where he talks about Cyril and the energies. This would 1924 02:16:55.559 --> 02:17:03.479 be section eleven of book three, where he talks about 1925 02:17:03.920 --> 02:17:07.280 in what sense the incarnation and the union happened? How 1926 02:17:07.319 --> 02:17:11.680 to understand Cyril. Dude, I wouldn't be sitting here quoting 1927 02:17:11.920 --> 02:17:17.159 look at this if my intention was to undermine Orthodoxy. 1928 02:17:17.319 --> 02:17:20.639 I wouldn't be citing the guy who the Monophysites don't like. 1929 02:17:20.799 --> 02:17:32.559 This is so stupid. So anyway, I may just write 1930 02:17:32.559 --> 02:17:43.719 an essay on this, because multiple sections in the What 1931 02:17:43.840 --> 02:17:46.799 you're not understanding is what it means to say that 1932 02:17:47.239 --> 02:17:49.639 he's a divine person from all eternity, right, the pre 1933 02:17:49.760 --> 02:17:51.920 existent eternal word. 1934 02:17:52.280 --> 02:17:52.399 Right. 1935 02:17:54.280 --> 02:17:56.920 I understand what you mean when you say he was complex. 1936 02:17:57.079 --> 02:17:59.959 He was simplex beforehand, and then he was complex because 1937 02:18:00.120 --> 02:18:03.920 he assumed a human nature. So sometimes you can talk 1938 02:18:03.959 --> 02:18:07.079 about the hypostasis for the whole person of Christ, and 1939 02:18:07.200 --> 02:18:09.479 sometimes you can talk about the hypostasis referring to it 1940 02:18:09.600 --> 02:18:12.559 in itself. That's not dividing Christ, that's not saying he's 1941 02:18:12.920 --> 02:18:15.280 he has parts after the incarnation that we want to 1942 02:18:15.280 --> 02:18:18.879 divide him. It's using the theological language that he uses. Okay, 1943 02:18:19.000 --> 02:18:22.360 So what you misunderstood was just simply the terminology. You 1944 02:18:22.440 --> 02:18:26.200 misunderstood the fact that saying the hypostasis is composite does 1945 02:18:26.239 --> 02:18:30.319 not mean the hypostasis itself is composite. He remains what 1946 02:18:30.479 --> 02:18:33.399 he was from all eternity. Both he and Saint Maximus 1947 02:18:33.559 --> 02:18:37.559 say that when they explain it anyway, I'm not interacting 1948 02:18:37.639 --> 02:18:44.120 with you anymore anyway, so themthrowpost is explained in book 1949 02:18:44.200 --> 02:18:47.920 three to mean what I'm telling you it means justin 1950 02:18:48.000 --> 02:18:50.559 stam ten dollars, Yo, dog, could you clarify Excess thirty 1951 02:18:50.559 --> 02:18:52.920 three eleven, where it talks about distinct attributes glory and 1952 02:18:52.959 --> 02:19:00.479 goodness seems to be different in translations. Well, of course, 1953 02:19:00.559 --> 02:19:03.040 I mean, as you know, the septuagen is the normative 1954 02:19:03.479 --> 02:19:11.159 text for us. So let's see what expdus thirty three. 1955 02:19:11.280 --> 02:19:17.959 I don't think that. I mean the point was to 1956 02:19:18.200 --> 02:19:21.879 differentiate God's essence from his actions, and that the story 1957 02:19:21.920 --> 02:19:25.799 of Moses tells us this. So let's see. Let's see 1958 02:19:25.799 --> 02:19:31.159 what thirty three eleven says that Moses spoke face to 1959 02:19:31.239 --> 02:19:40.520 face Okay, so you're saying that distinct attribute glory and goodness. 1960 02:19:40.799 --> 02:19:45.840 Thirty three eleven. All the people saw the pillar of 1961 02:19:45.879 --> 02:19:49.120 the Cloud and the tabernacle, and they worshiped each man 1962 02:19:49.159 --> 02:19:53.319 at his tent door. The Lord spoke face to face 1963 02:19:53.399 --> 02:19:55.600 with Moses as a man speaks to his friend. Then 1964 02:19:55.639 --> 02:19:58.799 he would return to the camp, but his servant, Joshua, 1965 02:19:58.920 --> 02:20:01.879 the son of Nune, a young man, did not depart 1966 02:20:01.959 --> 02:20:14.159 from the tabernacle. Okay, I mean, maybe I'm missing the 1967 02:20:16.799 --> 02:20:18.879 I mean, I know he tells Moses that he will 1968 02:20:18.920 --> 02:20:22.280 let his goodness pass before him. So let me look 1969 02:20:22.319 --> 02:20:29.360 at what the Masoretic text would read there thirty three eleven. 1970 02:20:32.000 --> 02:20:34.440 I don't I'm not seeing that. Maybe it's different between 1971 02:20:34.479 --> 02:20:37.760 the two agent and the masoretic text is what they issued. 1972 02:20:38.680 --> 02:20:41.399 So the Mazarek text says, so God the Lord spoke 1973 02:20:41.440 --> 02:20:47.079 to Moses face to face. Yeah, I don't see where 1974 02:20:47.079 --> 02:20:52.639 you're talking about the difference between glory and goodness. It's 1975 02:20:52.719 --> 02:20:56.079 it's you know, in the Moses story, it talks about 1976 02:20:56.760 --> 02:20:58.639 Moses says, let me see her face, and God says, 1977 02:20:58.840 --> 02:21:02.120 you can see my goodness. Sorry, justin I'm a little confused. 1978 02:21:02.680 --> 02:21:07.159 Misty earnst one dollar. Thank you missing appreciate that oplaton 1979 02:21:08.280 --> 02:21:24.559 o platon, the hypostasis itself is from all eternity. By 1980 02:21:24.559 --> 02:21:27.920 the way, this is all we have to do is 1981 02:21:28.040 --> 02:21:31.360 to read this. The only sense in which is composite 1982 02:21:32.000 --> 02:21:35.319 is because his hypostasis has appropriated and taken on a 1983 02:21:35.399 --> 02:21:39.879 human nature. The human nature has for its subject the 1984 02:21:40.239 --> 02:21:44.280 eternal divine person. Right, So in no sense is Christ 1985 02:21:44.360 --> 02:21:49.159 a human person. His humanity does have for its subject 1986 02:21:49.399 --> 02:21:52.959 a divine person, and Saint Maximus is very clear about that. 1987 02:21:54.319 --> 02:21:56.959 But when you read this book, which is a refutation 1988 02:21:57.200 --> 02:22:03.000 of monophysitism, it makes all of that very clear. By 1989 02:22:03.040 --> 02:22:04.719 the way, I'm banning you because I know who you 1990 02:22:04.799 --> 02:22:15.680 are and I don't want your five dollars. Sauna Shauna 1991 02:22:15.879 --> 02:22:21.399 Sawyer ten bucks. Bless Jay for explaining original Christianity, how 1992 02:22:21.920 --> 02:22:25.479 and how the theology practice is devolved from the time 1993 02:22:25.559 --> 02:22:27.760 the heresies of Franks, the great skills of the Reformation, 1994 02:22:28.159 --> 02:22:30.840 Renaissance Vatic into New World Order. Yes, that's the key. 1995 02:22:31.760 --> 02:22:36.040 It's it's it's a big picture, and that I think 1996 02:22:36.200 --> 02:22:40.479 is the correct analysis. Steve Green five bucks, what is 1997 02:22:40.600 --> 02:22:42.840 meant by accident in this context? Well, in the risk 1998 02:22:42.840 --> 02:22:48.159 Atilian conception, you have the notion of objects being composed 1999 02:22:48.879 --> 02:22:52.680 of substance or an essence, and then they have accidental qualities, 2000 02:22:52.680 --> 02:22:57.200 which are maybe secondary qualities. Right, So a chair has chairness, 2001 02:22:57.319 --> 02:23:00.319 but then it has the secondary or accidental quality such 2002 02:23:00.319 --> 02:23:04.159 as being read or being short, or being small or 2003 02:23:04.239 --> 02:23:09.360 you know whatever. Those are qualities that aren't necessary to 2004 02:23:09.520 --> 02:23:13.319 being a chair. But whatever chaerness is, that's the essence 2005 02:23:13.360 --> 02:23:16.959 of being a chair. Right. So in Roman Catholic theology 2006 02:23:17.520 --> 02:23:23.520 they will adopt the substance accident approach of Aristotle and 2007 02:23:23.600 --> 02:23:27.040 then try to kind of apply this across the board. 2008 02:23:28.559 --> 02:23:30.879 And then when they apply it to the deity, they say, well, 2009 02:23:31.280 --> 02:23:36.079 God cannot God has pure, perfect, simple substance, and therefore 2010 02:23:36.239 --> 02:23:38.559 if he has distinctions that are real, then it must 2011 02:23:38.600 --> 02:23:40.799 mean that he has accidents and accidental qualities, and that 2012 02:23:40.879 --> 02:23:44.479 can't be because that would mean he's composed. So that's 2013 02:23:44.520 --> 02:23:47.520 a category mistake where we don't apply the risk to 2014 02:23:47.639 --> 02:23:50.719 the categories to God himself. Now, when I say that, 2015 02:23:50.920 --> 02:23:53.239 I don't mean that we can't speak of God as 2016 02:23:53.319 --> 02:23:56.040 the cause. Right. If I say God is the first cause, 2017 02:23:56.360 --> 02:23:58.920 that doesn't mean that I believe that he is the 2018 02:24:01.200 --> 02:24:04.639 thought thinking itself of Aristotle. Right, if I say that 2019 02:24:06.680 --> 02:24:10.040 God is logos, that doesn't mean that he is identified 2020 02:24:10.079 --> 02:24:15.040 with Marcus Aurelius's principle that permeates the universe. It's not 2021 02:24:15.120 --> 02:24:18.120 the same thing. So we can't make category mistakes or 2022 02:24:18.879 --> 02:24:22.959 word mistakes, word term mistakes, right, mistaking words for the concepts. 2023 02:24:24.920 --> 02:24:27.479 But what happens in Roman Catholicism is that they assume, 2024 02:24:28.079 --> 02:24:30.399 like with John Damascus, when John Damscus talks about distinction 2025 02:24:30.520 --> 02:24:34.000 between God's energies and God's essence, they say that it 2026 02:24:34.159 --> 02:24:36.879 can't mean what Orthodox say because John Damascus says that 2027 02:24:36.959 --> 02:24:41.840 God has no accidents. Correct. But John Damascus, as you 2028 02:24:41.959 --> 02:24:45.920 just saw Father Florofsky say, does not conceive of there 2029 02:24:46.000 --> 02:24:50.639 being accidents. That the accidents are uncreated energies. Uncreated energies 2030 02:24:50.639 --> 02:24:58.639 are not accidents in God. Slaber Chops, Tim Bucks God, 2031 02:24:58.680 --> 02:25:00.680 bless you day, Thank you, slabtops Lem just appreciate it. 2032 02:25:00.879 --> 02:25:04.040 Bruce Bronson one dollar, Bruce Bronson, one dollar, thank you. 2033 02:25:09.799 --> 02:25:14.520 So once again, Yes, the hypostasis of Christ is composite 2034 02:25:14.639 --> 02:25:17.840 in the sense of now he exists and subsists with 2035 02:25:17.920 --> 02:25:23.680 two natures. The hypostasis itself is from all eternity, and 2036 02:25:23.920 --> 02:25:26.719 it is the pre eternal word of God. He's a person, 2037 02:25:26.760 --> 02:25:29.680 he's a hypostasis from all eternity. The only thing that 2038 02:25:29.760 --> 02:25:34.639 he assumed was a human nature. He remained what he was. 2039 02:25:35.040 --> 02:25:38.600 Both John Damascus and Saint Maximus say in assuming human nature, 2040 02:25:39.479 --> 02:25:42.120 now he is the god man. Now those natures are 2041 02:25:42.200 --> 02:25:46.680 not compounded, they are composite. Composite does not mean compounded 2042 02:25:46.719 --> 02:25:56.040 and confused, You are confused. I'm talking about the psycho 2043 02:25:56.120 --> 02:25:58.600 who keeps following me and gets banned. That's you. I'm 2044 02:25:58.639 --> 02:26:01.760 not going to name him. He's done. We're not interacting 2045 02:26:01.799 --> 02:26:09.760 with him ever again. All right, So the only reason 2046 02:26:09.799 --> 02:26:11.360 he asked that question was to try to trip me 2047 02:26:11.440 --> 02:26:12.920 up so he can try to have some kind of dirt. 2048 02:26:13.040 --> 02:26:15.360 But we've already subtled the matter with that guy. We've 2049 02:26:15.440 --> 02:26:21.639 gone above his head. My work has been blessed now 2050 02:26:21.959 --> 02:26:26.520 by the hierarchs, so it doesn't matter what he says. 2051 02:26:28.399 --> 02:26:32.280 All right. I don't see any more super chats. Do 2052 02:26:32.399 --> 02:26:35.079 we have anybody who wants to debate? Anybody want to 2053 02:26:35.120 --> 02:26:44.200 come on and debate. Also, we covered that composite issue 2054 02:26:44.680 --> 02:26:48.639 again in my chat. It's just a category mistake. They're 2055 02:26:48.639 --> 02:26:52.959 misunderstanding what's composite. Yes, the hypostasis is composite in the 2056 02:26:53.040 --> 02:26:57.280 sense of assuming human nature. Two nature's is what makes 2057 02:26:57.319 --> 02:27:02.159 it composite. Islami Janissary going debate. So we have a 2058 02:27:02.280 --> 02:27:04.520 Muslim and wants to debate. Yeah, we have Muslims debating 2059 02:27:04.520 --> 02:27:07.639 all week in the in the discord. By the way, 2060 02:27:07.639 --> 02:27:12.079 I will be debating Matt Dila Hunty August eighth. So 2061 02:27:14.040 --> 02:27:15.959 if you've not, I'm sure most of you probably know 2062 02:27:16.000 --> 02:27:18.639 who Matt Dila Hunty is, the now well known atheist. 2063 02:27:19.639 --> 02:27:28.120 He did a debate with JBP a while back. It 2064 02:27:28.200 --> 02:27:35.360 was very popular. People are saying, don't bother. 2065 02:27:36.879 --> 02:27:52.639 Yeah. 2066 02:27:52.719 --> 02:27:55.079 John Damascus says, there's two senses to which we use 2067 02:27:55.120 --> 02:27:57.680 the word in hypostatize or what referring to when we 2068 02:27:57.680 --> 02:28:00.479 talk about hypothesis, Sometimes we're talking about us, when other 2069 02:28:00.520 --> 02:28:03.959 talking about God. Sometimes we're talking about the whole being, 2070 02:28:04.159 --> 02:28:12.000 and sometimes we're talking about just the hypostasis itself. No, 2071 02:28:12.280 --> 02:28:16.239 Christ as a divine person, his divine, his divinity is impassable. 2072 02:28:16.520 --> 02:28:21.040 So when he was crucified, he underwent death. There's only 2073 02:28:21.120 --> 02:28:24.239 one person, one subject there who is undergoing this action. 2074 02:28:24.840 --> 02:28:28.200 But because he's a divine person. He is impassable, right, 2075 02:28:28.280 --> 02:28:31.280 his divine nature is impassable. John Damascus covers us at 2076 02:28:31.360 --> 02:28:33.319 length at the end of book three and at the 2077 02:28:33.440 --> 02:28:35.120 beginning of book four. So at the end of book 2078 02:28:35.159 --> 02:28:38.000 three he talks about the death and dissent of Christ 2079 02:28:38.120 --> 02:28:41.000 into Hades, his human soul descending into Hades. And in 2080 02:28:41.079 --> 02:28:43.719 the beginning of book four he ends that section and 2081 02:28:43.840 --> 02:28:46.520 he explains what we mean. So the only reason that 2082 02:28:47.239 --> 02:28:50.000 you Islamic apologists are saying that is because you think 2083 02:28:50.120 --> 02:28:53.639 that that Christ is just like kind of one entity. 2084 02:28:54.200 --> 02:28:56.920 We say that Christ always possesses two natures, and that 2085 02:28:57.440 --> 02:29:01.120 when he suffered and died, it was only his human 2086 02:29:01.239 --> 02:29:04.600 nature that suffered and died. Now, the subject who underwent 2087 02:29:04.680 --> 02:29:07.520 that actions is the second person of the godhead, right, 2088 02:29:07.559 --> 02:29:11.120 the only person present for all those actions. Now, I'm 2089 02:29:11.159 --> 02:29:13.840 not dropping the discord link into the chat because there'll 2090 02:29:13.840 --> 02:29:16.239 be a million retards that will pile in there and 2091 02:29:16.520 --> 02:29:21.399 junk it up. Jay Paul says in Timothy that God 2092 02:29:21.440 --> 02:29:23.920 is immortal, but he died a human death. So he yeah, 2093 02:29:24.000 --> 02:29:27.399 this is called dialectics, right. God is immortal, but that's 2094 02:29:27.440 --> 02:29:29.040 why we say he took on a human nature. He 2095 02:29:29.120 --> 02:29:34.200 didn't become a human. He remained divine and he assumed 2096 02:29:34.639 --> 02:29:38.120 human nature. And those natures interpenetrate one another, but they 2097 02:29:38.200 --> 02:29:41.399 never lose their properties. Right, So his humanity really did 2098 02:29:41.559 --> 02:29:46.079 suffer die, but his divinity is impassable. Right, so he 2099 02:29:46.280 --> 02:29:50.680 was never separated from his humanity. As John Davascus says, Look, 2100 02:29:50.879 --> 02:30:00.719 just read the last look, all right, Actually be helpful 2101 02:30:00.760 --> 02:30:03.120 because a lot of people make a mistake on this point. 2102 02:30:04.319 --> 02:30:06.479 This will also help refute that moron. It was just 2103 02:30:06.559 --> 02:30:20.840 in here, all right. So let's go to book three 2104 02:30:21.840 --> 02:30:24.399 and I'm gonna put up the screenshot for you here, 2105 02:30:27.159 --> 02:30:29.319 so this will respond to your question. What we're saying here. 2106 02:30:29.840 --> 02:30:33.479 Let's take the death of Christ as an example. Now, 2107 02:30:33.840 --> 02:30:37.159 we never separate Christ as if we actually in reality 2108 02:30:37.200 --> 02:30:40.120 are dividing him. Okay, he's always the god Man, even 2109 02:30:40.200 --> 02:30:42.719 in his death. He is the god Man for all eternity. 2110 02:30:43.120 --> 02:30:45.200 He will beat the god Man. Right, But there was 2111 02:30:45.360 --> 02:30:48.920 a death that occurred. Now, John Demssus is going to 2112 02:30:48.959 --> 02:30:52.159 make clear that when Christ died in this what he 2113 02:30:52.239 --> 02:30:54.159 calls the appropriation. This is right after this the section 2114 02:30:54.200 --> 02:30:55.760 where he talks about my God, My God, why have 2115 02:30:55.840 --> 02:30:58.559 you forsaken me. The Father did not forsake him in 2116 02:30:58.600 --> 02:31:01.360 the sense of splitting the trendity, because he's a divine person. 2117 02:31:04.120 --> 02:31:10.360 But Christ's death was real, It wasn't a phantasm, it 2118 02:31:10.479 --> 02:31:13.079 wasn't imaginary. Well, how do we make sense of that? 2119 02:31:13.280 --> 02:31:16.079 How can he die? Right? Well, because you're you're thinking 2120 02:31:16.159 --> 02:31:21.280 of Christ as one compound thing, right, one, he's only divine, 2121 02:31:21.680 --> 02:31:27.479 he's not. He's divine and human. So let's read this. 2122 02:31:28.840 --> 02:31:32.799 The Word of God then itself endured all in the flesh. Right, 2123 02:31:32.879 --> 02:31:35.239 So the second person of the Godhead, right, the Word 2124 02:31:35.280 --> 02:31:39.760 of God then endured in it in it's then itself. 2125 02:31:39.840 --> 02:31:41.639 By the way he speaks of the second person of 2126 02:31:41.680 --> 02:31:44.159 the Godhead itself, just like I told that retard, he 2127 02:31:44.239 --> 02:31:47.239 says he doesn't. There it is right there he the 2128 02:31:47.319 --> 02:31:51.000 Word of God itself. Right, the second hypes the second 2129 02:31:51.040 --> 02:31:54.120 person of Godhead, the eternal hypostasis, endured everything in the flesh, 2130 02:31:54.520 --> 02:31:58.280 while his divine nature alone was passionless and remain void 2131 02:31:58.319 --> 02:32:02.079 of passion. Christ has two natures. This is what you 2132 02:32:02.120 --> 02:32:06.200 don't understand. So God didn't die in the sense of 2133 02:32:06.239 --> 02:32:10.239 his divine nature changing. For since the one Christ, who 2134 02:32:10.399 --> 02:32:13.719 is compound of divinity in humanity. Oh oh, by the way, 2135 02:32:13.840 --> 02:32:18.040 did you see that retard? What's he compound of divinity 2136 02:32:18.079 --> 02:32:21.040 in humanity? Right? Two natures compound the very thing that 2137 02:32:21.120 --> 02:32:22.840 you said was an off site. Get out of here, 2138 02:32:22.879 --> 02:32:26.200 you retard, and exists in divinity in humanity. He truly suffers. 2139 02:32:26.959 --> 02:32:31.920 He exists, in exists, his hypostasis exists in humanity and divinity. 2140 02:32:32.159 --> 02:32:36.280 It truly suffered. What truly suffered he did in his humanity, 2141 02:32:37.239 --> 02:32:40.399 in the part which was capable of passion. What part 2142 02:32:40.799 --> 02:32:45.280 was capable of suffering his humanity. I'm not talking to 2143 02:32:45.319 --> 02:32:47.559 the Islamic guy as the retard. I'm talking about the 2144 02:32:47.600 --> 02:32:55.120 guy who's been obsessively tweeting or not tweeting following me 2145 02:32:55.239 --> 02:32:57.200 that I had to go to the hierarchs about. 2146 02:33:00.600 --> 02:33:00.639 This. 2147 02:33:01.120 --> 02:33:05.280 Right here, er Hutson as well. By the way, he's 2148 02:33:05.319 --> 02:33:07.879 so stupid he thinks that talking about the different natures 2149 02:33:08.040 --> 02:33:11.479 after the incarnation divides Christ, when this whole section is 2150 02:33:11.520 --> 02:33:15.680 about the different natures and what was impossible and what suffered. 2151 02:33:16.040 --> 02:33:21.760 This guy's a clown. But the only part that could 2152 02:33:21.799 --> 02:33:26.840 suffer mister Muslim was the humanity. Right now, he doesn't 2153 02:33:26.840 --> 02:33:30.440 have parts in the sense of being a divine person. Right, 2154 02:33:30.719 --> 02:33:33.040 he's the second person of Godhead from all eternity. He 2155 02:33:33.120 --> 02:33:36.639 assumes human nature, and he does suffer, but he suffers 2156 02:33:36.719 --> 02:33:40.159 in his humanity, in the part of him that could suffer. Right, 2157 02:33:40.319 --> 02:33:42.959 So Christ himself does not have parts. But when he 2158 02:33:43.040 --> 02:33:47.719 assumed human nature, he became composite, compound of divinity and humanity. 2159 02:33:47.840 --> 02:33:53.760 Compound of divinity in humanity. That's not monophysite retard for 2160 02:33:53.879 --> 02:33:57.200 the soul. Indeed, since it is capable of passion, shares 2161 02:33:57.239 --> 02:33:59.559 in the pain of suffering of a bodily cut, though 2162 02:33:59.600 --> 02:34:01.799 it is not cut, but only the body. But the 2163 02:34:01.879 --> 02:34:04.520 divine part, which is void of passion, does not share 2164 02:34:04.559 --> 02:34:07.200 in the suffering of the body. Christ's divinity is impassable. 2165 02:34:07.760 --> 02:34:10.479 His divinity was not changed, didn't suffer in alteration, It 2166 02:34:10.559 --> 02:34:14.200 didn't die. Observe. Further, we say that when we say 2167 02:34:14.319 --> 02:34:18.600 God suffered in the flesh, this is called communicastio idiomatum. 2168 02:34:19.000 --> 02:34:21.120 This comes from Saint Cyril, and it just means that 2169 02:34:21.479 --> 02:34:24.200 we can say one thing about one nature, but we 2170 02:34:24.239 --> 02:34:26.559 can apply it to the whole Christ. That's what commune 2171 02:34:26.600 --> 02:34:29.840 castio ideomotum means. But we never say that his divinity 2172 02:34:29.840 --> 02:34:32.600 suffered in the flesh, or that God suffered through the flesh. 2173 02:34:33.079 --> 02:34:35.159 For if when the sun is shining upon a tree, 2174 02:34:35.239 --> 02:34:37.440 the act should clean the tree, and nevertheless the sun 2175 02:34:37.559 --> 02:34:40.319 remains uncleft and void of passion. Much more will the 2176 02:34:40.399 --> 02:34:44.000 passionless divinity of the word united in subsistence to the flesh. 2177 02:34:44.079 --> 02:34:49.040 Subsistence here just means person, the one, the divinity of 2178 02:34:49.120 --> 02:34:52.920 the word, united in the subsistence, in his subsistence to 2179 02:34:53.040 --> 02:34:55.680 the flesh. Right, his divine person is united to the flesh. 2180 02:34:56.159 --> 02:34:58.959 That is his human humanity is human nature. It remained 2181 02:34:59.040 --> 02:35:02.639 void of passion when the body undergoes passion. And should 2182 02:35:02.719 --> 02:35:06.280 any one poor water over flaming steel, it is that 2183 02:35:06.399 --> 02:35:09.159 which naturally suffers by the water, I mean the fire 2184 02:35:09.600 --> 02:35:12.719 that is quenched, But the steel remains untouched, for it 2185 02:35:12.840 --> 02:35:14.399 is not the nature still to be destroyed by water. 2186 02:35:14.520 --> 02:35:17.719 Much more than when the flesh suffered, did his only 2187 02:35:17.959 --> 02:35:23.799 passionless divinity escape all passion, although abiding inseparably from it. 2188 02:35:24.600 --> 02:35:28.360 For one must not take the examples too absolutely and strictly. Indeed, 2189 02:35:28.520 --> 02:35:30.600 in the examples one must consider both what it is 2190 02:35:30.680 --> 02:35:32.680 like is unlike. So he's just saying these are analogies 2191 02:35:32.719 --> 02:35:36.840 with the steel and water and fire, heat whatever, for 2192 02:35:36.920 --> 02:35:39.559 if they weren't like in all respects, they would be identities, 2193 02:35:39.680 --> 02:35:42.280 not examples. Then he goes on to say concerning the 2194 02:35:42.319 --> 02:35:45.000 divinity of the Lord, how it remained inseparable from the 2195 02:35:45.120 --> 02:35:49.120 soul and the body at Christ's death, and that his 2196 02:35:49.200 --> 02:35:51.520 subsistence continue to be one. This is also going to 2197 02:35:51.799 --> 02:35:59.959 refute that retard even further our psychopath, not the Muslim guy, 2198 02:36:00.319 --> 02:36:10.200 the other guy. So continuing, he says, since our Lord 2199 02:36:10.280 --> 02:36:14.959 Jesus Christ was without sin, he committed no sin. A 2200 02:36:15.000 --> 02:36:18.360 scripture says, right, he was not subject to death, since 2201 02:36:18.440 --> 02:36:20.920 death came into the world through sin. There had another 2202 02:36:21.280 --> 02:36:23.360 so called true Orthodox clown trying to say I was 2203 02:36:23.360 --> 02:36:25.879 a heretic because I said he assumed the nature that 2204 02:36:25.959 --> 02:36:28.959 Adam had. That's what John Damascus says right here, he 2205 02:36:29.120 --> 02:36:31.600 was not subject to death, right, But he willingly took 2206 02:36:31.719 --> 02:36:36.319 on our mortal condition. But not because he inherited original 2207 02:36:36.399 --> 02:36:40.159 or ancestral sin. He took on himself death on our behalf. 2208 02:36:40.440 --> 02:36:42.399 You see, he will too, and he made himself an 2209 02:36:42.399 --> 02:36:45.159 offering to the Father for our sakes, for we sinned 2210 02:36:45.159 --> 02:36:47.760 against him, and it was meet that he should receive 2211 02:36:48.040 --> 02:36:50.879 the ransom for us, and that we should thus be 2212 02:36:50.959 --> 02:36:53.559 delivered from the combination. God forbid that the blood of 2213 02:36:53.600 --> 02:36:56.159 the Lord should have been offered to the tyrant. Right, 2214 02:36:56.239 --> 02:36:58.239 So he's saying that it wasn't an offering to Satan. 2215 02:36:59.479 --> 02:37:02.959 Wherefore death approaches and swallowing up the body, talking about 2216 02:37:03.040 --> 02:37:08.360 Christ's body as bait. Death is transfixed on the hook 2217 02:37:08.559 --> 02:37:11.040 or excuse me, the Christ's body, he's saying, is debate. 2218 02:37:12.520 --> 02:37:14.840 The bait is transfixed on the hook of divinity. Right. 2219 02:37:14.920 --> 02:37:17.280 So the it's almost like the if you think about 2220 02:37:17.280 --> 02:37:21.840 the matrix, when when Neo like goes into agent Smith 2221 02:37:21.920 --> 02:37:24.360 or whatever and it destroys Agent Smith. I mean, that's 2222 02:37:24.399 --> 02:37:26.200 a dumb analogy, but I don't know. This is what 2223 02:37:26.360 --> 02:37:29.719 pops in my head, Like when when when Satan took 2224 02:37:30.280 --> 02:37:32.280 this into his realm, into the realm of death, so 2225 02:37:32.399 --> 02:37:36.879 to speak, this sinless and life giving body, uh, is 2226 02:37:37.000 --> 02:37:41.719 the bait, and then this is the means by which 2227 02:37:41.760 --> 02:37:44.920 Satan is destroyed. He's saying, after tasting the sinless and 2228 02:37:44.959 --> 02:37:47.680 lifegiving body, it perishes and brings up again all who 2229 02:37:47.799 --> 02:37:51.120 died of old. He swallowed up speeding of death for 2230 02:37:51.280 --> 02:37:54.319 just as darkness disappears in the introduction of light. So death, 2231 02:37:55.440 --> 02:37:59.040 so is death repulsed before the assault of life and 2232 02:37:59.159 --> 02:38:03.479 brings life to all, but death to the destroyer. Wherefore, 2233 02:38:03.520 --> 02:38:07.360 although he died as man and his holy spirit was 2234 02:38:07.440 --> 02:38:12.159 severed from his immaculate body, yet his divinity remained inseparable 2235 02:38:12.159 --> 02:38:16.120 from both. See there, I mean, from his soul and 2236 02:38:16.159 --> 02:38:18.920 his body. So even though his one hypostasis was not 2237 02:38:19.040 --> 02:38:21.840 divided into two, you see, he remains to be one 2238 02:38:22.440 --> 02:38:25.520 hypostasis when his death, when the death occurs, for the 2239 02:38:25.559 --> 02:38:28.600 body and soul receives simultaneous in the beginning, there being 2240 02:38:28.760 --> 02:38:33.159 the body and the soul, they have one hypostasis, the 2241 02:38:33.239 --> 02:38:36.959 word eternal word. He's a divine person. And although they 2242 02:38:37.000 --> 02:38:39.040 were separated from one another, the body and soul, that 2243 02:38:39.200 --> 02:38:46.559 is by death, you see. And wait, let's see, So 2244 02:38:47.319 --> 02:38:50.239 the one hypostasis, that's what subsistence means here of the 2245 02:38:50.280 --> 02:38:53.040 word alike is the subsistence of the word and of 2246 02:38:53.079 --> 02:38:54.920 the soul and body. Right, So, in other words, there's 2247 02:38:54.920 --> 02:38:57.479 only one person present, the divine person and the soul 2248 02:38:57.600 --> 02:39:01.760 and body of the humanity. The only person that they 2249 02:39:01.920 --> 02:39:04.159 have is the person of the word. For no time 2250 02:39:04.239 --> 02:39:07.000 had either the soul or the body, a separate subsistence 2251 02:39:07.079 --> 02:39:09.799 of their own. That would be Nestorianism, different from that 2252 02:39:09.920 --> 02:39:11.799 of the Word. And the subsistence of the Word is 2253 02:39:11.920 --> 02:39:16.120 forever one, and at no time too, you see, so 2254 02:39:16.280 --> 02:39:19.319 that the subsistence of Christ is always one. That means 2255 02:39:19.360 --> 02:39:22.920 the subsistence the hypostasis of Christ is never composite. It 2256 02:39:23.040 --> 02:39:26.479 is always one. It is composite in the sense of 2257 02:39:26.600 --> 02:39:29.079 having two natures. It is not composite in the sense 2258 02:39:29.159 --> 02:39:32.120 of undergoing an alteration and change. It is always one. 2259 02:39:33.000 --> 02:39:37.600 Subsistence means person. For although the soul was separated from 2260 02:39:37.600 --> 02:39:41.959 the body topically, yet hypostatically, they were united through the Word. So, 2261 02:39:42.040 --> 02:39:45.600 in other words, even when Christ died and his soul descended, 2262 02:39:46.040 --> 02:39:50.000 the only person present as his soul descends into Hades 2263 02:39:50.200 --> 02:39:53.520 is the divine person of the Word. They were always 2264 02:39:53.639 --> 02:39:58.520 hypostatically united in the person of the Word. Now let's 2265 02:39:58.559 --> 02:40:06.600 look at the death and destruction in the descent into Hades. 2266 02:40:09.239 --> 02:40:11.120 This is a great question, by the way, because this 2267 02:40:11.239 --> 02:40:13.799 trips up all the Protestants. Protestants are all tripped up 2268 02:40:13.840 --> 02:40:15.440 on this, and they fall into a bunch of a 2269 02:40:15.479 --> 02:40:21.000 whole bunch of heresies on this one. So let's look 2270 02:40:21.000 --> 02:40:31.479 at this last section. Where's my screenshot? Make sure I 2271 02:40:31.520 --> 02:40:38.079 got the right screenshot here? Yeah, here we go. Concerning 2272 02:40:38.159 --> 02:40:41.719 corruption and destruction, the corruption has two meanings. It signifies 2273 02:40:41.719 --> 02:40:44.520 at times all human sufferings such as hunger, thirst, weakness, 2274 02:40:44.719 --> 02:40:48.120 nail's death, that has separation soul and body, so forth. 2275 02:40:48.159 --> 02:40:49.680 In this sense, we may say that the Lord's body 2276 02:40:49.719 --> 02:40:53.159 was subject to corruption, for he voluntarily accepted those things. 2277 02:40:53.200 --> 02:40:55.920 In other words, he was not subject to those things naturally. 2278 02:40:56.719 --> 02:40:59.959 He did not accept ancestral sin. He did not accept 2279 02:41:00.000 --> 02:41:02.200 original sin. Whatever terms you want to use. We don't 2280 02:41:02.239 --> 02:41:04.959 teach that. Maximus is very clear in at the lassium 2281 02:41:05.000 --> 02:41:07.879 twenty one, and that's why he has no nomic will. 2282 02:41:08.479 --> 02:41:11.639 But corruption means also the complete resolution of the body. 2283 02:41:11.639 --> 02:41:13.840 In other words, his body didn't decompose, is what we 2284 02:41:13.920 --> 02:41:17.120 were saying. Body Lord did not experience this form of corruption. 2285 02:41:17.239 --> 02:41:19.159 As David says, he will not leave my soul in 2286 02:41:19.200 --> 02:41:21.559 hades hell, nor will you allow your holy one to 2287 02:41:21.559 --> 02:41:25.399 see coruption. Wherefore he talks about two heretics, Julianus and 2288 02:41:25.440 --> 02:41:28.639 Guyanas thought that Christ's body was incorruptible in the sense 2289 02:41:28.760 --> 02:41:31.600 in the first sense, that he didn't experience hunger thirst 2290 02:41:32.799 --> 02:41:36.239 before his resurrection, which is absurd, for if he were incorruptible, 2291 02:41:36.680 --> 02:41:39.680 it was not really the same essence as us. In 2292 02:41:39.680 --> 02:41:42.399 other words, he didn't really have full humanity. The gospels 2293 02:41:42.440 --> 02:41:44.159 tell us that this happened, that he was hungry, he 2294 02:41:44.280 --> 02:41:47.879 was thirsty, nails, there was wound in his side. But 2295 02:41:49.600 --> 02:41:52.719 if they only apparently happened, then the crucifixion wasn't real. 2296 02:41:52.760 --> 02:41:54.159 It was a sham. Right, we don't believe that. So 2297 02:41:54.200 --> 02:41:56.600 he's just talking about two errors that we don't accept. 2298 02:41:57.040 --> 02:41:58.920 The second maning of the word corruption, we confess that 2299 02:41:58.920 --> 02:42:02.520 the Lord's body is incorrupt, that is indestructible, for such 2300 02:42:02.559 --> 02:42:05.879 as the tradition of the church. Indeed, after the resurrection 2301 02:42:06.000 --> 02:42:07.280 of the Savior from the dead, we know that our 2302 02:42:07.319 --> 02:42:09.319 Lord's body is incryptible, even from the first sense of 2303 02:42:09.319 --> 02:42:11.639 the word. For in other words, after the resurrection, he 2304 02:42:11.719 --> 02:42:16.680 doesn't suffer hunger, thirst, weary, weariness, et cetera. For he 2305 02:42:16.799 --> 02:42:20.360 bestowed those gifts upon his resurrected body. That's so he 2306 02:42:20.479 --> 02:42:28.040 deified it. Right, Descruption must put on incruption Concerning the 2307 02:42:28.040 --> 02:42:31.639 descent into hades, the soul Christ soul when it was deified, 2308 02:42:31.840 --> 02:42:35.399 descended into hades in order to that, just as the 2309 02:42:35.440 --> 02:42:38.000 son of righteousness Malchi for two rose from those upon 2310 02:42:38.040 --> 02:42:41.200 the earth, so likewise he might bring to light those 2311 02:42:41.200 --> 02:42:45.040 who sit under the those in hades in darkness and 2312 02:42:45.120 --> 02:42:46.840 the shadow of death as a nine two, in order that, 2313 02:42:46.959 --> 02:42:49.079 just as he brought the message of peace to those 2314 02:42:49.200 --> 02:42:52.559 upon the earth and release of those prisoners, he became 2315 02:42:53.239 --> 02:42:55.959 to those who believe the author of relazing salvation. So, 2316 02:42:56.000 --> 02:42:58.040 in other words, the gospel was even preached to the dead, 2317 02:42:58.079 --> 02:43:00.879 as Peter says, so that he might become the same 2318 02:43:01.079 --> 02:43:04.200 lord to those in hades. Every need will bow to him, 2319 02:43:04.440 --> 02:43:06.399 those in heaven, those in the earth, and those under 2320 02:43:06.399 --> 02:43:10.040 the earth Philippians to ten. And thus, after he had 2321 02:43:10.079 --> 02:43:13.600 freed those from who'd been bound for the ages hades, straightways, 2322 02:43:13.639 --> 02:43:15.799 here rose again from the dead, showing us the way 2323 02:43:15.840 --> 02:43:18.799 of resurrection. So we do not say that God in 2324 02:43:18.879 --> 02:43:22.399 his divinity suffered and died. That is a mistake in 2325 02:43:22.520 --> 02:43:31.000 terms of the communicastio idiomatum. All right, Uh, let's see, 2326 02:43:31.000 --> 02:43:35.280 I don't think there's anything else going on here. We've 2327 02:43:35.319 --> 02:43:38.319 got one more super chat. John Kalikas ten bucks our 2328 02:43:38.440 --> 02:43:42.520 graces divine help towards salvation for rational creatures. Sure, I 2329 02:43:42.600 --> 02:43:46.639 mean they're not just helps, but they're salvation itself. If so, 2330 02:43:46.760 --> 02:43:49.520 how do they exist before all creation, including creatures? They 2331 02:43:49.559 --> 02:43:53.120 are intended to help? Well, they're not just helps. I mean, 2332 02:43:53.159 --> 02:43:55.799 that's kind of like the Roman Catholic idea of like 2333 02:43:55.920 --> 02:43:59.399 God giving you little spankings and power boosts or something. 2334 02:43:59.440 --> 02:44:02.760 That's not the Orthodox conception. The Orthodox conception is that 2335 02:44:03.559 --> 02:44:06.879 grace is the uncreated life of God and glory of 2336 02:44:06.879 --> 02:44:11.959 God himself. So I would say to you, John Kleikus, 2337 02:44:12.079 --> 02:44:15.399 just read John seventeen. That's one of the clearest passages 2338 02:44:15.440 --> 02:44:19.360 because Jesus says that the same glory that he possessed 2339 02:44:19.360 --> 02:44:21.399 with the Father and the Spirit before the foundation of 2340 02:44:21.440 --> 02:44:25.120 the world, which is obviously an eternal, uncreated glory, is 2341 02:44:25.200 --> 02:44:27.719 the very thing that he intends to give to the saints. 2342 02:44:28.840 --> 02:44:30.920 So from John seventeen one all the way down to 2343 02:44:31.000 --> 02:44:33.719 verse twenty in his high priestly prayer, he makes that 2344 02:44:34.040 --> 02:44:38.319 very clear. So anyway, all right, good talk to you guys. 2345 02:44:38.680 --> 02:44:44.079 If you want to read more on this. Again, everything 2346 02:44:44.120 --> 02:44:46.840 that I'm saying, it's all in defense of the Orthodox faith. 2347 02:44:46.920 --> 02:44:49.600 Especially Book three. Okay. So Book three is where it 2348 02:44:49.680 --> 02:44:52.680 really talks about Christology and where he really applies the 2349 02:44:52.760 --> 02:44:56.120 uncreated energies to Christology. It's where he goes into what 2350 02:44:56.200 --> 02:44:58.239 the new theadric energy is. It's what he goes where 2351 02:44:58.280 --> 02:45:02.440 he goes into in what sense Christ is composite and 2352 02:45:02.520 --> 02:45:06.360 in what sense he's not. Okay, it's all in book three. 2353 02:45:06.920 --> 02:45:09.959 And this is the second time I've read it in 2354 02:45:10.079 --> 02:45:13.239 ten years. I just did an entire lecture series through 2355 02:45:13.239 --> 02:45:16.479 the whole book. I know what I'm talking about. I'm 2356 02:45:16.520 --> 02:45:20.440 not making this up. I'm not inventing heresies. To those 2357 02:45:20.479 --> 02:45:24.040 who are so called Orthodox, and then to those who 2358 02:45:24.120 --> 02:45:28.239 are Roman Catholics, we want to stress that we are 2359 02:45:29.280 --> 02:45:34.920 in coherent consistence with the Counsels and the Fathers, and 2360 02:45:34.959 --> 02:45:38.479 you were not, and that's why you have to become Orthodox. 2361 02:45:39.879 --> 02:45:44.040 And so those who are interested in the website first 2362 02:45:44.079 --> 02:45:47.239 part two with Saint Maximus, you can again, I'll put 2363 02:45:47.239 --> 02:45:49.319 the link again here for you. You can join the 2364 02:45:49.399 --> 02:45:52.319 website or you can buy the book at the shop 2365 02:45:52.360 --> 02:45:58.000 at the website. So let's do that real quick and again. 2366 02:45:58.079 --> 02:46:01.719 August eighth, Matt Dilla Honey all to be debating Matt. 2367 02:46:02.959 --> 02:46:05.239 That should be an interesting debate. There is to subscribe 2368 02:46:05.280 --> 02:46:09.120 to the site and if you would like to buy 2369 02:46:09.200 --> 02:46:12.760 the books, the sign copies, Philosophy and film all your 2370 02:46:12.799 --> 02:46:18.200 favorite movies. You can purchase sign copies of the book here. 2371 02:46:20.639 --> 02:46:28.120 Cool beans, dude. All right, God bless you guys, have 2372 02:46:28.159 --> 02:46:32.280 a good night, and I will talk to you next 2373 02:46:32.319 --> 02:46:35.600 time in Part two with Saint Maximus and the Logi 2374 02:46:35.760 --> 02:46:37.239 that will be up in the next day or two.