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Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome, Can you get me five.

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Speaker 2: Four three two one.

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Speaker 1: Zero dire wave dire way. The scientific method cannot justify

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the scientific method. Therefore itself is a dogmatical physic.

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Speaker 3: Subsision stop stop stop stop stop steps stop stop stop stops.

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Speaker 4: Sensing sensing.

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Speaker 1: A stass.

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Speaker 4: Step. It's asssssssssstopsstssssssstopsssssh start start star sang.

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Speaker 1: What's up? What's up? What's up? Welcome? Audio? Good? Can

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you hear me? Felow quite, felow quite? Chat? Catch up?

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Make sure you can hear me? When is ESA Turk

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Hollywood two coming out? Bruh, it's been out since December,

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it's been out for six months. Signed copies that Jayson aalysis,

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by the way, does it sound good? Okay, welcome y'all

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to Sunday. Addition, Jay's analysis, Bruh, asking about my book

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Part two, Part two been out? Allow me to put

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the link in the chat. Volume is a little low, okay,

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all right? Oh well, the link to the chat right

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there in the chat. Get yourself a signed copy of

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us The Turk Hollywood one and two. Let me make

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sure that my Mike's volume is up high enough in

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the computer settings. First, I'm fixing the volume. Ah, that's one.

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Apple has a tendency to automatically move the volume in

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the computer settings low, so that should be better. Hollywood

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Decoded too, No, no, there's not gonna be a Hollywood

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Decoded too. It never was ago. They never did. Okay that,

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but you can come and enjoy movies with me. I

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just posted my alien analysis. Well, Aliens towerk for you

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to fulfill your licentious pleasures that all you webs have.

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We all know why you want to break into area

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fifty one because of your insatiable lusts, and so I

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made a video for you with Aliens twerking. I thought

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it was very funny. The first five minutes are very

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Samuel Heidstein, but welcome to jamesonnalysis. So the timing was perfect,

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wasn't it to cover the debate between an Orthodox and

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a Barley mine? Now I read this book ten years ago.

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I read the debate ten years ago, and after all

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of what's transpired in the last few months, the various

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debates and whatnot, I thought, why not go back and

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reread this? So I did the last couple of days,

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and for those that don't know, it is now reprinted

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under snuy Sunni New York Press, so you don't have

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to buy the three hundred dollars version on Amazon, which

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actually I gave away to a dude, Jason Nelson's supporter

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Ludwig on Twitter. I didn't realize that I was giving

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away three hundred dollars book. I hope he appreciates that.

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But actually the books twenty bucks that you can buy

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it at snuy Press on their website. You have to

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go to their website on Amazon. You know, it's like

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three hundred dollars on Amazon, So don't buy that one.

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It has a good scholarly introduction for what it is.

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The scholars, of course don't really get orthodox theology, but

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they do their best, and if you read the thirty

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forty page introduction you get a decent overview of what

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the background is why this debate happened. Now, let's talk

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about that first. Because in the debate with our UNI

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eight person a couple of days ago, we heard many

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many times over that the Franciscans and the Scotis or

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what matter, And they prove that the Tomistic or in

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the vein of the Tomistic version of absolute devind simplicity

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is not actually Roman Catholic dogma. Why because of John

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Scotus and he's an accepted theologian. That's not how Roman

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Catholic dogma works. You can't rewind in time to find

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somebody in the seventh century, the fourth century, the thirteenth

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century when dogmas later become defined in Roman dogma. So

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it literally does not matter what John duns Scotis said

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about a matter that is later codified. Now he would

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have if we had gotten into the debate, he would

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have said, yeah, But John don Scotus is a acceptable

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theologian in Rome Catholicism, so therefore any opinion that he

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has is acceptable. Really, no, that's not how it works.

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Thomas Aquinas has theological opinions that were later not accepted

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in Rome Catholicism. Does that mean that because Aquinas isn't

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accepted theologian, that any of his opinions are therefore acceptable. No,

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of course not, because that's not how the Roman system works.

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How often do the Roman Catholics tell us this constantly?

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They constantly tell us that the reason that we need

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the pope is because there's no way to discern the

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dogma from opinions. And what do many of the Roman

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Catholic theologians, especially those in the Uniate circles, wants us

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to believe. Oh, much of this, you see, is just

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in the realm of opinion. But as I've always argued

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for many years now, at least not always always, but

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many years now, the doctrine of divine simplicity in the

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West is not just a doctrine that relates to propositions

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about the simplicity of the divine nature. It's the founding

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presupposition that infects the totality of the Roman Catholic worldview. So,

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if my thesis is correct, it's not just a matter

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of finding the council of Rhymes saying that all of

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the attributes are equated to one another, which is what

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Denzinger says in that quote in my essay show. It's

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also a matter of looking at the other implications of

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that doctrine. That's always been the argument. That's not some

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new thing I've tacked on, as our opponent said the

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other day, It's always been the argument, and all the

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essays that have been writing, there's dozens of these essays,

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dozens of papers, countless talks, and so therefore it's not

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just a matter of looking at what the propositions are

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in Denzinger about divine simplicity. Now we do do that.

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We start there, We look at the different propositions about simplicity,

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and there's five or six that are explicit in Denzinger

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about that from the early on all the way up

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until Vatican one statement. But that's not all that we do,

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because that's not all the doctrine of simplicity in the

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Roman Catholic scheme relates to. You see, it also gives

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their christology a specific approach, a specific series of statements

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set of statements, because divine simplicity effects obviously necessarily how

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one will view the incarnation. How is it possible that

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one hypostasis of the Trinity becomes incarnate and not the

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entire Trinity becoming incarnate. So we have to have a

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theology that allows for the possibility of one hypostasis, one

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person in the Trinity, the second person, the Logos, entering

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into a mode of being a tropos that the other

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two persons, the Father and the Spirit, do not. Now, ultimately,

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Roman Catholic theology, in its doctrine and statements of simplicity,

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especially in Tunism, does not really coherently allow for the

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second person of the Trinity to become incarnate. Do they

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believe and confess that he did? Of course they do.

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Of course Aquinas says many true things. Course course of

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Quinas thought that the Logos became incarnate. That's not the argument.

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The argument is not what he thought. The argument is

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not did he at times confess true things? The argument

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is that he confesses conflicting things. Two different arguments, very simple.

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So if we equate attributes and persons, if we say

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that the Son is the equivalent to the will of God,

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if we say that the Son is literally identical to

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the energies or the essence of God, which Roman Cathic

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theology does say, we can't also in another book of

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the Suma or in another place turn around and say,

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but he's also truly distinct, and he became incarnate and

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not the Father, not the Spirit. Because if the distinctions

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are real, and they are then from the outset, we

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don't have a problem of assuming the distinction entails composition

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or division in this. When we go through these arguments

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with these people, that's consistently what they come back to.

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There cannot be a distinction between God's essence and his

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activities or his energies, because that would lead to composition

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in God. That wo mean God has accidents. Well, no,

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he does not, and we don't say that. For John Damascus,

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when he argues for the uncreated energies being distinct from

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the essence, he does not think of them as accidents.

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In God right, God is not cut up into substance

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an accident. And if we read the philosophical investigations the

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excuse me, the fount of knowledge he explains this. He

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also states in defensive Orthodox faith that God does not

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have substance an accident, as if he was composed. However,

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the uncreated energies are not accidents. They are uncreated energies.

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You see. So we constantly will see the clever word

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games and tricks that the Roman Catholics play to get

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around these facts. And what I wanted to bring up

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with Scotos was that John Donscotis dies when san Gregor

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Palomos as a child. San Gregor Palomos is a kid,

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a young child, when John dons Scotis dies. And then

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after the controversies of the Middle Ages, particularly the debate

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between a Barleymite and Orthodox, we have the clear parting

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of ways. You see, there's a development to these things.

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This debate shows you the development and what path did

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the Roman Church take. There's no disputing this. Clearly they

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took the Barleamite path. Any Roman galactyologian that you talked

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to today will argue the Barleamite positions even if he

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doesn't know who Barlem is, because it's eventually codified into

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their dogmas. It's not just codified in the statements about

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what simplicity is, you see, and that's why this debate

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is not just about what simplicity is. What does Saint

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Gregory Palamas say towards the middle debate? He says, the

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real difference between you and I is that for us,

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Grace is uncreated and for you Grace is a supernatural creation.

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The Roman Catholic dogma is that Grace is a supernatural creation.

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It is not an uncreated grace. That's why in the

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debate with Luke, I listed the four statements directly from

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the first four statements in Ludwig Gott about what grace is.

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Now we're a Roman Catholic at this point will typically say, yeah,

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but he Grace is cause and caused Okay, it's cause

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and effects, right. All that means is that the effects

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are created. God himself is uncreated, and you, as a creature,

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received the effects of grace, and therefore that's all it means. No, no, no, no, no,

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that's not all it means. You see, because in Trent,

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in the Anathemas of Trent under Justification, it says that

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the righteousness that you get is not the righteousness that

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God has. If you read Lagrange's commentary on a Quinas, specifically,

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when he talks about grace, he says, it is a

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supernatural creation. It is not the essence of God. We

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are speaking of the grace itself. We're not talking about persons,

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the creatures who receive the effects. We're not talking about

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God himself. We're talking about the grace itself. What is it?

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This has been answered in Roman Catholic dogmatic theology. That's

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why Ludwig got lists four statements. There's many, but the

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first four make this point very clearly. Grace is a

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supernatural created accident in the soul. Hence, this debate goes

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too many different areas. It's not just the debate about

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propositions about divine simplicity, it's a debate about Christology. It's

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a debate about the beatific vision. It's a debate about

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how the human nature in Christ is affected by the

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divine person assuming it. This debate literally goes to all

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the places that you hear me go. You think that

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I make these things up. You think that I'm just

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saying this stuff. No, no, no, it's all right here

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and rereading this after ten years, just like a few

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months ago we reread Saint John Damascus defensely Orthodox Faith.

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We lectured all the way through it, and two or

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three years before that, we lectured through a fount of knowledge.

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Everything that I've been saying is correct. I'm not wrong.

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So let's get into this work itself. Oh but so

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to sum up, in response to the chief objection to

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our debater last time, his chief argument was that you've

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changed your position because at one time you said that

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tumism is the Roman Caolic dogma simplicity. Yes and no. Okay. So,

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on the one hand, not everything that Thomas says is dogma.

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We all know this, we all admit this, and even

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in divine simplicity, Okay, you could argue that not every

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statement that Thomas says is the dogmatic definitions in Denzinger. No,

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that's true. But if we want to understand the import

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and force of the argument, it has never been about

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just claims relating to what simplicity is. That's only one

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part of the argument. Because this is our starting point.

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This is two different order of theologis right, the West

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has a different order theologi from the East. Now, the

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easiest way to disprove what the Uniate was saying was

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to simply point out that it cannot be the case

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that two rival theologies right here which anathematize each other,

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can for centuries be in opposition. And then after the

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ecumenical period of Vatican two, suddenly Gregory Palomos is a saint.

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Now this is absurd. That alone shows you that Roman

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Catholicism cannot be correct, because they cannot say at one time,

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for many centuries Polemism is yoga or Hinduism or whatever

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nonsense they come up with, and then after Vatican two

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is suddenly because of ecumenical interests, oh you're acceptable, right,

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Oh well, for many centuries, Uniates just ignored Rome on purgatory,

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on how they viewed Palomos, how they viewed the energies,

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and now it's acceptable. There's no midway between grace being

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a supernatural creation and grace being uncreated. They're two mutually

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exclusive positions, and in Orthodoxy it's condemned. It's sung in

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the liturgy that we anathematize the Latin view that came

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to dominate after this debate. So, in other words, it's

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never been just propositions that relate to divine simplicity. It's

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also been about the philioquay, because the Romancathoic position doesn't

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understand what eternal manifestation is. The entire argument of the

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Palamite son odds after this that relate to Philioquay and

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uncreated energies centers around the statements and the fathers about

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eternal manifestation. The modern the Vatican clarification on the Philioquay

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from a few years ago still admits the tension between

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the East and the West on the point of eternal

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manifestation and on the point of Florence in the Double Procession.

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It admits that Florence says that the son also participates

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in the father's hyposthetic role as cause the son participates

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in being a co cause he's not the principal cause principolitar,

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as it says, he's a co cause. The son does

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not participate in the Father's unique property that blends the persons.

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There's only one cause in the Godhead, as all the

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fathers in the East say, and that's the person of

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the Father. There's not a secondary cause in the Godhead.

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There's not a property that the father and the son share.

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The spirit lacks. And if father and son are a

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co cause, which Florence clearly says, and Florence explicitly says

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that the Father and the son are a cause not

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just of the projection of the spirit, of the eternal

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manifestation of the spirit, of the hypostasis of the Spirit

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explicitly says that, and the hints. Even the Ecumenical statement

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of the Vatican Clarification on the Philioque admits that the

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Eastern and the Western positions are still in tension on

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this point. I know what I'm talking about. Secondly, as

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I said many times, you cannot have a doction of

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eternal manifestation without a doction of uncreated energies, because the

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eternal manifestation is is the eternal manifestation of the energies.

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That's what the thing means. That's what the statement means.

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It's impossible to believe in eternal manifestation without uncreated energies.

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This is precisely where the Roman Catholics confuse the doctrine.

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This is the whole root of the doctrine. And that's

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why I showed you in the second half of the

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debate the statement from the Papadacus book about eternal manifestation

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in the Palomite Synods. Now, not just the question of

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the Roman Catholic doctrines of simplicity in Denzinger, not just

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the question of Christology and how one person could become

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incarnate an enter into emotive being that the other two

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do not. Which again, if if God is an absolutely

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simple essence in the way that the Roman Catholics almost

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always define it, how does one hypostasis enter into emotive

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being that the other two do not. This would would

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require change and alteration in the absolute simple essence of

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Gotten and as a result, all of their talk of

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virtual conceptual, nominal logical distinctions would also therefore apply to

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the incarnation, and the incarnation would then be virtual, conceptual, logical,

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nominal and not real and therefore they would be here

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six but they don't want to admit that. But if

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they were consistent with their view of God's energies and

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God's actions in this world being strictly created, that the

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theophanies are created, they would also deny the incarnation. But

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the point is that they're not consistent. Point is not

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do they say correct things at times? Yes, point is inconsistency.

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So not only is there a problem in the statements

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on simplicity itself by equating the attributes in the essence,

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which Denzinger does explicitly. Not only is there a problem

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with Christology and the uncreated energies relating to his humanity,

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denying the uncreated energies which the efficce anity, which the

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sixth Council explicitly teaches and says. Not only is there

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a question of the philioque and the denial and confusion

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and not knowing what eternal manifestation is. There's also the

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question of the created grace, as we said, which they

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say explicitly and dogmatically is a supernatural created accident, which

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we deny. There's also the question of the sacraments. You say,

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the same problems across the board. God God relating to

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coming into the world with the Theophanes, God relating to

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coming into the world in terms of the incarnation, and

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then God coming into the world through the Church in

305
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our ecclesiology and our sacramentology. In the Realmanchaolic view, if

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you really believe in the real presence, then the Eucharist

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is the essence of God. That has retarded. Nobody believes

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that the Eucharist is the essence of God, except for

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roalman Catholics, who say that that is the body, blood, soul,

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and divinity. What is the divinity that's there? Is it

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a supernatural created accident or is it God himself? Now

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in their praxis, they believe that it is God himself.

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But if it's God himself, then it has to be

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the essence of God. Does it not? Does exactly? We

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00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:06,920
would say that that is preposterous. The Eucharist is not

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the essence of God. It has not changed into the

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essence of God. If you believe in absolute divine simplicity,

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then it has to be the essence of God. The

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uncreated energies deify and change the elements. That's the Eastern view.

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Just like in Christology, the uncreated energies defy his humanity,

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as John Damascus says in Book three of Defense of

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the Orthodox Faith. Secondly, thirdly, Sixthly, not just the sacramental issue,

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but the beatific vision. Luke ought to know that the

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beatific vision is one dogma in the Romechallic Church. There's

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no disputing that. Nobody disputes it. It's dogma. But no

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Orthodox theologian believes in the beatific vision. We believe that

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that is heretical and nonsensical and stupid. Roman Catholic theologians

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across the world will say that the light of Mount

329
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Tabor in Matthew seventeen, the transfiguration is a created light.

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Because God's absolutely simple essence can't enter in through time

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and space. How can that be an uncreated light? Oh

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but wait a minute. Scripture actually says they saw the

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glory of God. Is the glory of God created? No,

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it's not. Jesus says in John seventeen that the glory

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that he shared with the Father before the foundation of

336
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the world, obviously that's not created. Is what he gives

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to his saints. That's not created. It's uncreated. There's only

338
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two options. There's no mediating term. This is the absurdity

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of the positions that they call us a dial that

340
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we have a diad, that we believe in two gods,

341
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an uncreated and a created God. No, right, we don't

342
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believe that the essence of God is a different God

343
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from the uncreated energies. There's only one God. God is

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Holy present in every one of his energies, as Saint

345
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Gregory says. And we don't think in dialectics in terms

346
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of God. If you start to think in dialectics in

347
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terms of God, you will be Amian. You will be

348
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an absolutely simple essence proponent in a Eunomian or Plutonian sense.

349
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And that's why they actually literally have the doctrine of Eunomius.

350
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All right, so let's get into this. So oh, and

351
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they also don't have in their anthropology the doctrine of

352
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the noose, which is an outworking of divine simplicity, because

353
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if humanity is made in the image of an absolutely

354
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simple essence, where nature and person are confused in God,

355
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nature and person will be confused in humanity, and that's

356
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exactly what happens in Western anthropology. Therefore, they have the

357
00:31:30,839 --> 00:31:32,960
loss of the doctrine of the news. They don't believe

358
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that man is a tripartite creation body soul, noose. They

359
00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:40,839
believe that man is a body and an intellect. They

360
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:47,599
believe in a diad, a dialectical vision of man, especially

361
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,039
after Augustine, a body and soul. And that's why none

362
00:31:51,079 --> 00:31:54,240
of them, none of them, No Catholic theologians teach the

363
00:31:54,279 --> 00:31:56,880
docrine of the News. Now, all of those doctrines is,

364
00:31:57,039 --> 00:31:59,720
including the recapitulation, which you could throw that in there

365
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,720
as well, have been lost in the West totally. The

366
00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:06,000
West does not believe any of those things. Those are

367
00:32:06,119 --> 00:32:10,400
all demonstrably the result and intimately tied to and connected

368
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,839
to the doctrine of absolute divine simplicity. So when I

369
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,039
say absolute divine simplicity, that is all the stuff that

370
00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:19,599
I mean. I don't just mean statements in Denzinger that

371
00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:24,880
only apply to the essence of God. And if you

372
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:30,279
don't know, Denzinger is the sources of Catholic dogma. That

373
00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:33,920
has always been the argument. If Luke had paid attention

374
00:32:34,319 --> 00:32:36,319
to the many, many, many talks that we've done, he

375
00:32:36,319 --> 00:32:39,519
would see that we're not just listing the only reason

376
00:32:39,599 --> 00:32:42,599
I have the essay that lists the dogmas about absolute

377
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,119
divince simplicity is because that's what that essay is about.

378
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,160
All of the other essays are about the outworkings of

379
00:32:48,279 --> 00:32:53,200
this theology theological error in all these other areas. Don't

380
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:59,559
you see? There you go now. The scholarly introduction to

381
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:05,079
this work notes at the beginning that the argumentation from

382
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,799
Saint Gregory against the barleymite is from Saint Maximus. Of

383
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,640
course it is. You've heard me many times quote Saint

384
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:18,519
Maximus on the uncreated energies. The apologetic, as the introduction notes,

385
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,759
is one against platonism. Yes, thank you for the know

386
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,160
nothings who think that palmism is platonism. The whole apologetic

387
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,640
is against platonism. You have no idea what you're talking about.

388
00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:37,440
How is this theosis achieved? Do we believe that this theosis,

389
00:33:37,839 --> 00:33:41,000
this deification is achieved, this knowledge of God, this seeing

390
00:33:41,079 --> 00:33:47,720
of God through rational inquiry and ratiocinations. No, the rational

391
00:33:47,799 --> 00:33:52,039
noetic faculties of man are a natural faculty. They are created.

392
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,240
They're good. There's nothing wrong with human logic, human contemplation,

393
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:02,880
human reasoning. I mean, this book involves reasoning, contemplation, and logic. Obviously, this,

394
00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:07,519
by the way, is another reputation of the piodox the

395
00:34:07,759 --> 00:34:10,159
hyper pious who don't believe that you should debate or

396
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,679
do theology in the sense of arguing with or defending

397
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:17,119
the faith against the heretics, even though thousands of pages

398
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:21,280
of church Father's works do this. Many hyper pious, super

399
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:27,119
pious people. Oh, anyone who debates misses the spirit of Orthodoxy.

400
00:34:28,079 --> 00:34:32,880
Palamism is not about debating. Here's a whole debate from

401
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,760
san Gregory Palamas. Total idiocy, total lunacy, stupidity, and really

402
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,519
it's just a cloak for spiritual pride. That's all that is.

403
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,000
That people who say that just want you to think

404
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:49,199
that they're super spiritual. And thus we have to see

405
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:55,360
then that the achieving of the vision of God is

406
00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:00,440
not a rational exercise. It's not achieved through algorithms, achieved

407
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,039
through mastering the church. For others, it's not achieved through

408
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:10,400
the logic of Aristotelian syllogisms. It's not achieved through mastering

409
00:35:10,559 --> 00:35:18,199
Thomas's Summa's it's not achieved through mastering apologetics. Now, all

410
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,880
of those things can be good things, but those are

411
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,519
all created things. There's no other You can't look to

412
00:35:24,639 --> 00:35:33,320
another created thing to achieve the uncreated. The uncreated transcends

413
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:38,280
those created things, It uses created things. It deifies its energies,

414
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,400
the energies of God. I'm saying his energies, I should say,

415
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,719
to be more precise, his energies, because they are in hypostatic.

416
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:52,800
They're not abstract. They're always personal. Right, His energies interpenetrate

417
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,159
all of creator reality. They are not blended with creative reality.

418
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,440
Creator reality does not become the Us of God. We

419
00:36:00,519 --> 00:36:04,920
are not pantheists. We reject pantheism. We do not believe

420
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,280
that the energies are abstract, impersonal forces out there. No,

421
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,800
they are personal, and hence they are in hypostatic, in hypostotized.

422
00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:22,679
But the point is that it is only through the

423
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:28,920
correct prayer life, the correct approach to liturgy, through humbling oneself,

424
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,280
through repentance, that one can approach and achieve the truth.

425
00:36:34,119 --> 00:36:37,599
That's the big difference here, right, You cannot attain to

426
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,159
the truth through mere intellect. You have to repent to

427
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,519
attain to the truth. And that's the first starting point.

428
00:36:44,639 --> 00:36:48,960
Is that it begins by kind of rebuking the Barleyamites

429
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:54,960
for this platonic rational approach. Again, don't think in dialectical terms.

430
00:36:55,000 --> 00:37:00,360
We're not setting reason against God or against faith. We're

431
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,280
not saying that that would be feediism, that would be

432
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:08,599
the evangelical error that many ameerdos have adopted, especially converts

433
00:37:08,639 --> 00:37:12,079
from evangelicalism, who think that you shouldn't do apologetical Oh well, so,

434
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,679
John Damascu is one of the great theologis of the

435
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,360
church who wrote many, many books on apologetics. Is therefore wrong.

436
00:37:19,079 --> 00:37:22,559
This is to be absurd. It's just ignorance. And most

437
00:37:22,559 --> 00:37:24,239
of the time that again, the people who speak that

438
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,119
way are actually just cloaking their own pride. They feel

439
00:37:28,199 --> 00:37:32,559
that they are superior to doing apologetics, or to defending

440
00:37:32,599 --> 00:37:34,880
the faith, or to any of these things, and so

441
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,599
it gives them a feeling of superiority to you. It's

442
00:37:38,639 --> 00:37:40,639
just a cloak for pride. It it's just a version

443
00:37:40,679 --> 00:37:44,960
of prelist But no, in fact, you cannot achieve these

444
00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:51,639
things through any created energy or created subject, substance, created form.

445
00:37:52,559 --> 00:37:55,760
The grace of God is uncreated and therefore must come

446
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,400
to us through humility, through repentance. It can't be an

447
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:05,519
intellectual vision of some essence or some abstract form, or

448
00:38:05,599 --> 00:38:09,639
some platonic maze. That you're you're navigating to get to

449
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,440
the monad. So we are not Platonists. The beginning point

450
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,519
of this whole approach is the rejection of Platonism, the

451
00:38:17,599 --> 00:38:21,519
rejection of Hellenism consistently, and that's why in the Triads

452
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,840
the very beginning, Sam Gregory says that Plato and the

453
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:30,480
Greeks and Platonism are demonic, and some Catholic clown was

454
00:38:30,559 --> 00:38:32,880
trying to argue with me saying that he didn't say that,

455
00:38:33,079 --> 00:38:34,920
and after I showed him all the statements in the

456
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,840
Triads at the beginning where he says that, he just says, well,

457
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,920
that's not what he means. No, that's what he says,

458
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,920
and that's what he means, because even the scholars in

459
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:47,280
this work tell you that you can't achieve God through

460
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,679
mere reason. And again many people then make the opposite

461
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,559
end mistake of thinking that, oh, well, then human reasoning

462
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,519
is itself evil and bad. No, Jesus assumed human nature

463
00:38:59,639 --> 00:39:04,199
and then includes human will and reasoning. Right, So if

464
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,760
Jesus assumed it and healed it, it's not inherently wrong.

465
00:39:08,199 --> 00:39:11,400
He assumed all of the human faculties proper to human nature,

466
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:17,000
and thereby deified them and healed them. So you can't

467
00:39:18,159 --> 00:39:23,920
then interject aspects into human nature that are somehow inherently evil. Oh,

468
00:39:24,039 --> 00:39:27,599
human reasoning is therefore evil. No, it's not. It has

469
00:39:27,639 --> 00:39:32,719
to be deified, has been transformed. The creations of God

470
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,239
show his energies.

471
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 2: All right.

472
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: This is what Basil says in the letter two thirty four.

473
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,880
We know God through his works in creation. This is

474
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,639
why there is an analogia in Orthodoxy, contrary to what

475
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,480
some heretics say that there's absolutely no analogia. That's not true.

476
00:39:46,599 --> 00:39:50,000
There is, but Barlem is a heretic because he ends

477
00:39:50,079 --> 00:39:55,880
up with the view that there that there's a created divinity.

478
00:39:58,679 --> 00:40:02,880
And therefore, as the scholars in this note that I've

479
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:10,199
said one hundred thousand times, the simplicity doctrine that Barlem

480
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,159
has is Eunomian. Exactly if you read in the Catholic

481
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,119
Encyclopedia what the Eunomian doctrine of simplicity is, that's exactly

482
00:40:18,199 --> 00:40:23,199
what the Roman Catholics say. Saint Gregor Palma says, the

483
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,519
root of all of these errors is the simplicity doctrine.

484
00:40:27,159 --> 00:40:30,760
And it's not a question of Aristotilian dialectics of substance

485
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,360
and accident that will determine this ultimately. But in fact,

486
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,079
what is revealed ultimately is a question of submitting our

487
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,159
intellect and our human pride in our philosophy to what

488
00:40:41,559 --> 00:40:47,400
Revelation says exactly so absolute divine simplicity. According to Saint Gregory,

489
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,639
Palamas rehashes the errors of Arius, the Massallians who claim

490
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:56,079
to see the essence of God, Utikeys, the Utaychian Utychians,

491
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,280
and the Eunomians, all the stuff that you've heard me

492
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,360
argue say. Gregory says that we are separate from Hellenism,

493
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,199
and so there is a Jerusalem versus Athens that work here.

494
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,280
Why do I say this because I've spent many, many

495
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,039
years trying to look at this issue. I'm not saying

496
00:41:15,039 --> 00:41:17,119
it's right because I spent many years. I'm just saying

497
00:41:17,119 --> 00:41:19,920
that I know what I'm talking about. The last ten

498
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,360
years have been focused on this question of Hellenism, the

499
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:29,920
Patristic era and the one in the Many, so I

500
00:41:30,599 --> 00:41:33,199
have a sense of what I'm talking about here. Now

501
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,280
we can go, for example, to Dionysius sat Dinysius the

502
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,239
Area Apiciite. He's the first to really take up this

503
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,159
issue after the Apostles, and he says that God is

504
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,840
both one and many, and he transcends one in many.

505
00:41:49,199 --> 00:41:51,679
He says that that does not compromise the unity of

506
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,920
God because we genuinely think that he's both one and many. Right,

507
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,400
we can't predicate of God in any absolute sense, and

508
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,920
so there is a via negativa or the apathetic way,

509
00:42:03,079 --> 00:42:05,679
apathetic theology, meaning that we predicate of God what he

510
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,519
isn't right, But there's also a valid cataphatic approach.

511
00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 3: Right.

512
00:42:10,079 --> 00:42:12,679
Speaker 1: We can say positive things about God, such as that

513
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,679
God is Father's Son and Holy Spirit, right, because that's

514
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,480
what's revealed. We start our order of theologic from what's revealed.

515
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,159
And this is why Basil, when he's interacting with the

516
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,960
blatonic Hellenic idea, he contrasts himself with this platonic idea

517
00:42:27,039 --> 00:42:31,480
by saying, when we talk about the One, we don't

518
00:42:31,519 --> 00:42:33,599
say that the One is an it. We say that

519
00:42:33,639 --> 00:42:38,440
the One is he, right, and that constantes constitutes personality

520
00:42:38,599 --> 00:42:43,480
personhood hypostasis. When we say that God is he, we

521
00:42:43,559 --> 00:42:46,840
are primarily and principally talking about the person of the Father.

522
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,760
This is what Paul says. We read this every Sunday

523
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,719
and the Thanksgiving and the liturgies for every good gift

524
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,000
comes down from the Father of Lights. That's quoting Paul

525
00:42:57,559 --> 00:42:59,880
the Creed says, we believe in one God, the Father.

526
00:43:02,039 --> 00:43:06,280
So the principle of unity, the source of unity, begins

527
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,000
with the person of the Father, doesn't begin with abstractions

528
00:43:10,079 --> 00:43:12,880
about the essence of God, doesn't begin with abstractions that

529
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,760
come from Hellenism. Now, at this point, when a lot

530
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,360
of people get confused, and they'll kind of they will

531
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:25,320
kind of veer off into other areas and they'll say, well,

532
00:43:26,119 --> 00:43:31,159
but John uses the term logos. Jay, so clearly right,

533
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:35,559
think of a logloss. Right, that has to mean the

534
00:43:35,639 --> 00:43:39,039
same thing that the pagan audience has in mind. Otherwise

535
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:44,039
he couldn't do apologetics. So when John and John Want

536
00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:46,920
says logos, it's the same thing that Marcus Aurelius is

537
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:51,280
talking about, except it's not You see what you will

538
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,920
begin to see when you really, really, really study in depth.

539
00:43:55,079 --> 00:43:58,320
And I've read countless works on this topic. I'm not

540
00:43:58,360 --> 00:43:59,880
saying that makes me right. I mean I've read the

541
00:44:00,119 --> 00:44:03,239
entire Pelican series, right, all of the all five values

542
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,119
in Pelican, especially when he talks about this. I've read

543
00:44:06,159 --> 00:44:09,679
Jandy Kelly, I've read you name it, I've read the

544
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:14,960
Patristic era treatments of these issues, and I've read most

545
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:20,320
of these fathers themselves on these issues. And Jerusalem versus

546
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,159
Athens is kind of at the root of this whole thing.

547
00:44:23,679 --> 00:44:26,400
This is the problem. And this is where we depart

548
00:44:26,519 --> 00:44:31,920
from the Catholic view, the Roman Kelly view, because if

549
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,840
we look at Marcian, Okay, let's start with the early

550
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:40,320
early heretics, Marcian sees a dialectical tension contrast between the

551
00:44:40,519 --> 00:44:42,880
God of the Old Testament who's mean, and the love

552
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:44,960
God of the New Testament, who's nice. Okay, this is

553
00:44:45,079 --> 00:44:53,000
very common today. Okay, Marcian has a presupposition about either

554
00:44:53,199 --> 00:44:55,840
or right. Either God is the mean God of the

555
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,599
Old Testament or he's this nice God to love in

556
00:44:57,639 --> 00:45:00,760
the New Testament, and those two things and conflict. So

557
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,480
I'm going to go with the nice love God of

558
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,920
the New Testament. Now, this is a stupid approach with theology,

559
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,719
and it of course it ignores many, many clear proofs

560
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,119
of the continuity between the Old and New Testament. And so,

561
00:45:12,599 --> 00:45:16,079
for example, in against heresies, Santor Innaeus has a lengthy

562
00:45:16,159 --> 00:45:19,559
section where he refutes Marcian and he goes to many

563
00:45:19,599 --> 00:45:21,679
many things that prove the continuity of the Old and

564
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:26,760
New Testament, explicitly refuting Martianism, explicitly refuting Martian's denial of

565
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,559
the historicity of the Old Testament. But that's a beginning

566
00:45:30,639 --> 00:45:33,519
point where we start to see a departure between Jerusalem

567
00:45:33,559 --> 00:45:36,760
and Athens, right, and I'm using those terms loosely there.

568
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:42,039
That's kind of a shorthand for the long term battle

569
00:45:42,199 --> 00:45:46,679
between the Hellenic ideas. We're not talking about Greek culture,

570
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:51,159
We're not talking about Greek food. We're talking about Hellenic

571
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,960
philosophic assumptions. That's the key here. So don't misunderstand when

572
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,159
I'm saying Hellenic errors. I'm not talking about Greeks, I'm

573
00:45:57,159 --> 00:46:00,280
not talking about people. I'm not talking about culture, talking

574
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,800
about the specific philosophic ideas. So and then when we

575
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,119
move into these different gnostic groups, we see that many

576
00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:09,400
of the Gnostics, for example, that Aeronea stills with in

577
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,920
the first three hundred pages of his Against Heresies, many

578
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:16,119
of them were infected with these bizarre Platonic views, Platonic theory.

579
00:46:16,199 --> 00:46:17,559
Many of them, not all of them, but many of them.

580
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:24,519
When we move into the period of the post Apostolic apologists, Okay,

581
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,639
let's take tation tation was early on a student of

582
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,320
Justin Martner sat Justin Marter, the philosopher as he's called,

583
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,760
who was an apologist who did use philosophy. But what

584
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,440
Tationan did was he got too involved by the Greeks.

585
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:45,519
He fell into the dialectical philosophy of the Greeks, and

586
00:46:45,679 --> 00:46:50,519
unfortunately Taitan went into heresy. And then as a result

587
00:46:50,599 --> 00:46:55,880
of tait some of his students became I believe they

588
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,639
were the ancretites, right, many of his students became these

589
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:08,000
not stick Marcianite vegans. Okay, that's listed in John Damascus's heresiology.

590
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,440
It's also i think listed by Saint Apolitics of Rome.

591
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,920
But the point being is that when this happens, that

592
00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:21,920
group gets into either or dialectics of the Greeks Greek philosophy.

593
00:47:25,199 --> 00:47:28,159
Let's look at as we move from these clowns into

594
00:47:29,039 --> 00:47:34,719
people like Celsus or Origin. Okay, Now, Celsus was into

595
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:41,159
Greek philosophy. Origin was a patristic writer, influential scholar, and

596
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,800
church father. But He's not a saint and he's not Orthodox,

597
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,800
but he was influential and he was very into Platonism. Neoplatonism.

598
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,599
He did not have direct interaction with Plotinus. I'm not

599
00:47:51,679 --> 00:47:54,400
saying that, but I'm saying that there's a lot of similarities, Okay.

600
00:47:55,199 --> 00:47:58,480
And what eventually gets condemned by the Sixth Council explicitly

601
00:47:58,519 --> 00:48:03,960
in Originism is his neoplatonic views, his platonic views. Doesn't

602
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:08,760
matter what you call it. It's hellenic philosophy. It's denial

603
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,639
of Eden. It's a denial of history, denial of the

604
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:17,159
eternality of the Sun in terms of his being eternally begotten.

605
00:48:18,519 --> 00:48:23,880
It's a denial of genuine diversity in God at the

606
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,800
expense of the unity. So in the question of the

607
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,400
One and the many, Origin falls over on the side

608
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,239
of the premissy of unity and essence in God. And

609
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,320
so therefore whatever is not the essence of God according

610
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,400
to Origin has to be some lesser metaphysical status. Why,

611
00:48:40,679 --> 00:48:44,960
because of philosophic assumptions, distinction must entail composition or division

612
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,760
if it's a real distinction. You see now again, many, many,

613
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,559
many philosophers, theologians have written on this topic. What I'm

614
00:48:52,559 --> 00:48:54,840
saying is not my own ideas. I'm not making this up.

615
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,639
It's not new to me. David Bradshaw, very famous, has

616
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:03,800
books on this topic. If we move in then into

617
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,480
the period of Arius Arius and the Eunomians, right, these

618
00:49:07,519 --> 00:49:11,679
two radical groups. They were convinced that if God is one,

619
00:49:13,199 --> 00:49:17,320
anything that is predicated of God or said of God,

620
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,159
this is distinct from Father or from one, has to

621
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:25,800
be some lesser metaphysical status. The Son of God cannot

622
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,320
be homousus of the same nature or essence, because that

623
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:34,039
would imply that there's parts, there's two Gods, et cetera,

624
00:49:34,039 --> 00:49:36,920
et cetera. This is the stuff that you hear. Arians

625
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:44,960
today still argue this is another dialectical Hellenistic idea. Now,

626
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,559
the Eunomians were more radical. They said, now we can

627
00:49:48,679 --> 00:49:50,639
actually know the essence of God, and we can make

628
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,320
positive predications about the essence of God. And that's why

629
00:49:54,199 --> 00:49:56,320
the essence of God is the Father then, and that

630
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,119
is defined. It's a definitional notion here. It is to

631
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:05,960
find as ungenerate, unoriginate, is what Eunomias said. And so

632
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:11,800
Saint Basil and Saint Gregor Nissa launched into gigantic refutations

633
00:50:13,159 --> 00:50:18,599
of Eunomius, and guess what they used to refute Eunomius.

634
00:50:20,199 --> 00:50:24,400
Can you guess what distinction they used? They used the

635
00:50:24,559 --> 00:50:29,480
essence energy distinction they refuteus. If that distinction is not real,

636
00:50:30,599 --> 00:50:34,480
the entire argument against Eunomius collapses. This is so stupid

637
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,519
that there is nothing more low iq than the people

638
00:50:37,679 --> 00:50:39,840
who think that this is the same doctrine as Rome

639
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:45,079
Catholsis that that Palamas and Gregory and Basil they're not

640
00:50:45,159 --> 00:50:50,880
teaching anything different, then the whole argument against Eunomius would collapse.

641
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,519
If we move into the period of Nestorius and Saint

642
00:50:58,599 --> 00:51:06,400
Cyril okay ephesis, another Christological period. If you read mcguckin's book,

643
00:51:06,679 --> 00:51:09,119
if you read Saint Cyril's own writings, what you start

644
00:51:09,159 --> 00:51:12,000
to see is that Nestorius doesn't see how it's possible

645
00:51:12,079 --> 00:51:16,880
that there's not some tension between divinity and humanity. There's

646
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,360
some tension. So there's a tunis here that is some

647
00:51:20,599 --> 00:51:23,559
kind of moral conjunction, moral union between the son of

648
00:51:23,639 --> 00:51:26,679
God and a human person. In Jesus of Nazareth, they've

649
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,679
got some kind of moral union here, but there's not

650
00:51:30,159 --> 00:51:34,039
one divine person, the subject of all the incarnate actions,

651
00:51:34,159 --> 00:51:36,880
is not the second person of the Godhead, as Saint

652
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:45,119
Cyril said, it's at times there's this divine Jesus that's

653
00:51:45,159 --> 00:51:48,440
shining through, and at other times it's this man Jesus

654
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:52,039
of Nazareth. You see, this is another version of arianism.

655
00:51:52,119 --> 00:51:54,519
It's not exactly the same as arianism, but it's another

656
00:51:54,639 --> 00:51:58,119
version of arianism, and it's based on the same dialectics.

657
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,480
There's an oppit there's some natural tension and opposition between

658
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:09,519
divinity and humanity in Christ. This same problem will occupy

659
00:52:09,639 --> 00:52:13,360
the Church for the next several centuries, all the way

660
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,559
up into the Fifth and Six Councils, which deal with

661
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:26,400
the two natures in Christ. The chief argumentation that Saint

662
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:31,559
Maximus deals with is against the Monothelites, who are people

663
00:52:31,559 --> 00:52:34,920
who are essentially kind of a continuation of Monophysites, who

664
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,039
said that, well, if there's only a unity in Christ,

665
00:52:38,119 --> 00:52:41,039
there's only basically this blended kind of thing in Christ.

666
00:52:41,159 --> 00:52:44,880
When he becomes incarnate, a divine human hybrid, then there

667
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,079
has to be one action or energy in Christ. And

668
00:52:48,199 --> 00:52:50,159
so what Saint Maximus does is that he goes to

669
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,719
great lengths, especially in the disputation with Paris to prove

670
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,880
that the Monothelites are wrong and that Christ has two

671
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,760
wills and two energies because energy is a property. Are

672
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,800
faculty of nature? Right? Say John Damascus covers this in

673
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,679
book three very clearly as he launches into a rehearsing

674
00:53:08,199 --> 00:53:11,960
of the Christological controversies. And what I'm saying is that,

675
00:53:12,039 --> 00:53:15,719
once again, right when he's arguing with Pearis, he accuses

676
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,760
Pearis of setting up dialectical tensions between the will of

677
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,960
man and the will of God, between Christ's human will

678
00:53:23,159 --> 00:53:25,760
and his divine will, between Christ's human energy and his

679
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,840
divine energy. He says he thinks these things are intention

680
00:53:29,639 --> 00:53:31,559
and the key is to understand going all the way

681
00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:34,920
back to Cyril and the way Cyril explains it against Nestorias,

682
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,079
and the way that the Fifth and Six Councils explain it,

683
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:41,719
which is that the humanity of Christ is deified by

684
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:46,800
the uncreated energies of Christ legitimately raised, but it still

685
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:52,000
retains its natural, created properties. Christ's humanity never loses its

686
00:53:52,079 --> 00:53:55,960
created status. It will always and forever be created. However,

687
00:53:56,559 --> 00:54:00,840
it's not just created and mortal, it is raised. It defied, right,

688
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:06,119
it participates in that uncreated energy yet still retains its

689
00:54:06,159 --> 00:54:10,599
creative property. That's only possible, it's only possible to believe

690
00:54:10,679 --> 00:54:15,760
that and accept that if you reject Hellenic either or dialectics.

691
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,719
That's the key here. That is the overriding, consistent principle

692
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:26,039
that we want to understand that we reject, and when

693
00:54:26,119 --> 00:54:28,679
we start to grasp that, that's when we start to see.

694
00:54:29,039 --> 00:54:32,239
There's so many of these theological problems, controversies, and debates

695
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:38,079
center around dialectical either or tensions. Now, sometimes there is

696
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:42,639
an either or, right, there's not always a middle ground.

697
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,079
This is a kind of fallacy, right, there's not always

698
00:54:45,159 --> 00:54:49,599
some middle term as if you know, well, for example

699
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:56,280
theism and atheism, there's no middle ground there. So sometimes

700
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,239
there is an either or. But in a lot of

701
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:06,719
the theological controversies over the centuries Jerusalem versus Athens, there

702
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:15,400
is a transcending of either or dialectics. And Saint Gregor

703
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,559
Palamas is kind of the culmination, you could say, because

704
00:55:18,679 --> 00:55:23,719
certainly there's disputes and arguments after Saint Gregory. But if

705
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:30,519
you follow the logic from Niceea through Ephesis to the

706
00:55:30,599 --> 00:55:34,239
Sixth Council with the Monothy lites all the way up

707
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,920
through to Saint Gregory's day. You will see a logical

708
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,679
train of the development of this theology. And by development,

709
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,400
I don't mean the Roman Catholic conception of development, where

710
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:50,679
it's evolving. In our review, the development is just a

711
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,880
restatement or a redefining, an explication of what's already there. Right,

712
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,760
So we quite literally say that we're teaching the exact

713
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,320
same thing that that to St. Dionysia's there opic I said,

714
00:56:04,039 --> 00:56:09,480
we quite literally believe that Basil explicates the same faith

715
00:56:10,119 --> 00:56:17,639
as Saint Paul. And that's why it is correct, as

716
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,519
Saint Maximus says, to understand that one thing that the

717
00:56:20,679 --> 00:56:23,079
Fall did right, I mean it did a lot of

718
00:56:23,119 --> 00:56:27,800
different things right. The fall man introduced corruption, decay, metaphysically,

719
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:29,800
morally right, there's all these problems the fault. But one

720
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:31,960
thing that it did philosophically speaking, you could say it

721
00:56:32,039 --> 00:56:34,639
was introduced to these dialectics where people think that there's

722
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:40,280
hardcore either ores intention at all times, and it's not

723
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:44,920
always the case. So the great irony, and this was

724
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,199
a misunderstanding that I had for a long time about

725
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:50,559
orthodoxy that I had to kind of finally come out

726
00:56:50,599 --> 00:56:54,280
of and the key piece of evidence for me in

727
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:57,840
being convinced that Orthodoxy was not just Helenism and neoplatonism

728
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,760
was the statement of Basil where he says, for us,

729
00:57:03,159 --> 00:57:06,400
the one is a he, not an it. That's when

730
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:10,079
it finally clicked for me that I understood. Now I

731
00:57:10,199 --> 00:57:15,119
see why the church fathers are consistently having to battle,

732
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,360
whether it's Marcian or whether it's Arius, or whether it's

733
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,800
the Massalians, or whether it's Eunomius, or whether it's Astorius,

734
00:57:22,119 --> 00:57:27,760
or whether it's Purists, the Monothelites, Diascorus. They're consistently having

735
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:32,239
to battle with either or dialectics. And once you understand that,

736
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:36,039
it's very obvious. You see it. You see how Arius

737
00:57:36,599 --> 00:57:48,119
says that if God is simple and the Father is God,

738
00:57:50,199 --> 00:57:53,760
then if he eternally generates, that cause has to be

739
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,239
a created cause, because it would compromise the simplicity of God,

740
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:02,920
he says, and Athanasius refutes him by saying that the

741
00:58:03,079 --> 00:58:08,159
Son is an eternally generated son. He's not temporarily generated.

742
00:58:08,199 --> 00:58:11,639
He's not the first thing that God created. He's eternally generated,

743
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,599
and therefore he is not a creature. He shares the

744
00:58:14,679 --> 00:58:18,880
same essence of the Father. Is he the direct offspring

745
00:58:19,039 --> 00:58:21,280
of the Father's nature? Yes, he is right. And the

746
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,000
romancatoss trying to say, oh, that means divine, absolutely vine simplicity.

747
00:58:24,039 --> 00:58:30,199
Then no, he's the direct generation of the Father's nature.

748
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:34,320
You see, Athanasius is not setting the essence of gods

749
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:38,239
some abstract, preeminent category that we start with. He starts

750
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,039
with the Father. And that's why Hebrews says that he

751
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:46,360
is the direct image and icon of the Father. Now,

752
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:50,719
so dialectics then is a consistent problem. And when you

753
00:58:51,599 --> 00:58:53,880
read through many of these Church fathers and many of

754
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:56,599
the analyzes of the Church fathers, you will begin to

755
00:58:56,679 --> 00:59:00,599
see that as very clearly evident. The heretics will constantly

756
00:59:00,719 --> 00:59:04,880
think that there's only either ores right, either God is

757
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,320
one or he's many. He can't be one in many.

758
00:59:11,079 --> 00:59:13,880
Either God is absolutely simple or he's composed of parts.

759
00:59:15,159 --> 00:59:21,920
He can't have distinction without division. You see. Now, for us,

760
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:25,960
as we said, there are multiple Palamite synods after these

761
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:30,119
disputes up into the fourteenth century, and these are the

762
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,679
Palamite synods. They're just Orthodox synods, and they're received as

763
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:35,719
normative as I will show you in a moment we

764
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:41,840
sent many churches still sing this, and therefore Palamism is

765
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:45,000
nothing more than Orthodoxy. That's why the entire Orthodox world,

766
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:49,119
except for certain ecumenists who we will show are incorrect,

767
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,199
believes in the essen synergy distinction. Right, This is normative

768
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,360
in Orthodoxy. Will you find an Orthodox person at times

769
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:00,960
who's confused on this? Sure, but everybody body knows what

770
01:00:01,119 --> 01:00:04,840
our liturgy says. Everybody knows what our catechisms say. Everybody

771
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,719
knows that across the world, the Orthodox Church believes in

772
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,559
a real essence energy distinction. Now, it doesn't matter how

773
01:00:10,559 --> 01:00:15,199
many Fordom acumenists funded by giant foundations, all proven one

774
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,599
hundred percent proven. Now tries to say that there's no

775
01:00:17,679 --> 01:00:21,440
distinction between essence and energy, and that Gregor Palamas doesn't

776
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:23,480
believe in a real distinction. Of course he does. That's

777
01:00:23,519 --> 01:00:26,760
what this whole debate is predicated on. They're liars, they're

778
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,199
lying because they're paid to lie. They're not really Orthodox,

779
01:00:30,239 --> 01:00:32,800
and it's all come out that they're paid by foundations

780
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:38,039
to promote this stuff. The Jesuit University of Fordham. Everything

781
01:00:38,079 --> 01:00:40,840
that I said ten years ago about this kind of

782
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:48,800
stuff has all been proven true. The debate at times

783
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:53,280
does center on the classical tradition, so that is treated

784
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:57,519
of in the scholarly introduction, and they do note that

785
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:00,719
the Saint Gregor Palamas is not completely opposed to classical

786
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:05,760
education or the classical tradition. Right, So let's not mistake

787
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:09,320
what I'm saying for like Baptist type views or like

788
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:15,559
a independent landmark fundamentalist Baptist church like Jerusalem versus Aftertens.

789
01:01:15,599 --> 01:01:19,239
That means everything that's Greek, and everything that's other church fathers,

790
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,719
and all philosophy his other devil, No, no, no, no,

791
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,360
he Saint Gregory Palamas was trained in Aristotilian logic. He

792
01:01:26,559 --> 01:01:30,920
was trained in Aristotle. Saint John Damascus was trained in Aristotle. Right,

793
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:33,920
read David Bradshaw's Aristotle East and West. We don't have

794
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:36,079
a problem with Aristotle. We have a problem with the

795
01:01:36,239 --> 01:01:41,199
Western usage of Aristotle. Indeed, throughout the Fount of Knowledge.

796
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,599
As I've said, like I lectured on the whole book

797
01:01:44,719 --> 01:01:47,719
four or five years ago, Mathema ignored all this. Of course,

798
01:01:50,519 --> 01:01:53,000
all of those Aristotlian categories are used in the proper

799
01:01:53,039 --> 01:01:55,039
way in Saint John Demascus, and they're used in a

800
01:01:55,159 --> 01:02:05,480
different way by quitnas. Now, when we come to the

801
01:02:05,599 --> 01:02:12,519
work itself, understand that this is after the period of

802
01:02:12,559 --> 01:02:14,519
the Tria, so he's already written the Triads. I believe

803
01:02:14,559 --> 01:02:16,280
I'm right about that. I go out from memory, and

804
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:18,119
I did a talk on the Triads a year ago,

805
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:20,320
so you can go listen to that talk. This is

806
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:26,199
complementary to that talk. And it begins by pointing out

807
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:32,679
that Barleam is a heretic. Barley might views are heretical.

808
01:02:33,119 --> 01:02:38,239
That's how the book begins. Barlem begins his debate by saying,

809
01:02:38,599 --> 01:02:42,840
God's actions are identical to his essence. Did you hear

810
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:52,280
me exactly what Aquinas says? Not identical in a figurative sense,

811
01:02:53,320 --> 01:03:00,679
identical in an identical literal sense, actus purist. He is

812
01:03:01,039 --> 01:03:07,360
his essence. He is identical to his essence. His actions

813
01:03:07,599 --> 01:03:08,920
are identical to he.

814
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 2: And to his essence.

815
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 1: And Barley, beginning the barley mighte says, let's make sure

816
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:22,639
that we can support our views from the Church fathers.

817
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:24,880
You see, because in the Triads, the majority of the

818
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,079
argument in the Triads is biblical. And this was another

819
01:03:28,159 --> 01:03:30,360
thing that impressed me was that throughout the Triads it's

820
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,679
consistently arguing from the Bible. Now in this work, we're

821
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:37,159
moving on and there's going to be biblical references still.

822
01:03:37,199 --> 01:03:40,360
But here the debate begins by the barley might saying

823
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:43,400
you better prove your view from the Church fathers and

824
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:49,639
from tradition, and Saint Gregory responds by saying, okay, but

825
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,239
let's keep in mind that every heretic believes his view

826
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,920
is proven by the Church fathers. This is the everybody says,

827
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:59,119
I am in, I am in the true succession of

828
01:03:59,199 --> 01:04:01,719
the of the Fathers and the great theologians of the

829
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:06,559
ancient Church. But just claiming that is really meaningless. We

830
01:04:06,679 --> 01:04:10,519
have to actually demonstrate that. So it begins by talking

831
01:04:10,559 --> 01:04:16,039
about foreknowledge. Okay, and bar excuse me. Pelama says, foreknowledge

832
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,440
is an energy of God. And if we just stop

833
01:04:19,519 --> 01:04:23,480
for a moment and think about the stupidity of identifying

834
01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:26,039
the essence of God with foreknowledge and with the will

835
01:04:26,119 --> 01:04:28,440
of God, then we would come to see that there

836
01:04:28,519 --> 01:04:32,360
have to be real distinctions in God. Okay, God foreknowing

837
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:39,239
event an event is obviously not identical to God's will obviously,

838
01:04:41,639 --> 01:04:45,920
and what argument do you constantly hear me? Make right?

839
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,559
What I usually say, I say, let's look at Christology,

840
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:53,000
don't I what's the first thing he goes to Christology,

841
01:04:53,599 --> 01:04:57,119
he says, the clearest way to see that there's a

842
01:04:57,199 --> 01:05:01,239
distinction between the energies in God, his actions, and what

843
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:04,360
he is in himself. His inner essence is in the

844
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,320
person of Christ incarnate, because this is God in time

845
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:14,119
and space, walking around right doing things. And Christology is

846
01:05:14,199 --> 01:05:17,159
key because it shows us that he possesses two wills

847
01:05:17,599 --> 01:05:21,000
and two energies. And if we do believe that his

848
01:05:21,199 --> 01:05:24,199
actions within time and space are real, then clearly those

849
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:28,760
actions are different. His walking on water is not the

850
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:32,679
same thing as his creating the world. In fact, John

851
01:05:32,719 --> 01:05:35,800
Damascus says very clearly in book three that that's an

852
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,800
action proper to his divine power. All the miracles are,

853
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:42,039
of course they are. Walking on water is not proper

854
01:05:42,079 --> 01:05:47,079
to human nature. It's an action that shows that demonstrates

855
01:05:47,159 --> 01:05:53,280
divine power. Is the action of walking on water the

856
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,239
same as the action of creating the world, and also

857
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:59,679
the same as the destruction of the world, all actions

858
01:05:59,719 --> 01:06:03,320
of God God. Admittedly, of course not that would be ridiculous.

859
01:06:04,119 --> 01:06:06,599
That's why Basil says in letter two thirty four, if

860
01:06:06,639 --> 01:06:08,960
you add up all these attributes and say they're identical,

861
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:11,760
and that they're identical to the essence of God. You're

862
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:17,280
a fool. He begins the debate with that. He begins

863
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:21,639
the debate by saying that Saint John Damascus says that

864
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:27,039
the energies of God enter into history. He begins with

865
01:06:27,119 --> 01:06:30,000
book one of defensive Orthodoxist How many times have I

866
01:06:30,079 --> 01:06:35,800
begun with that? What's the next clearest argument? What does

867
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:39,039
he move to? He moves to the uncreated light in

868
01:06:39,119 --> 01:06:43,800
Matthew seventeen, the glory of God shining within creation, the

869
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:47,599
glory of God around Christ and the transfiguration, the light

870
01:06:47,719 --> 01:06:50,679
of God in the face of Saint Stephen, the light

871
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:54,679
of God that shines upon Paul when he's converted. This

872
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:57,119
is the same grace that the saints get. It's the

873
01:06:57,199 --> 01:07:00,800
same grace that's uncreated. It does enter into time and space,

874
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:07,559
just like the Theophanes did. And so when Joshua, when Gideon,

875
01:07:08,199 --> 01:07:14,039
when Abraham worship these Theophanes that manifest within time and space.

876
01:07:14,559 --> 01:07:19,800
Are they worshiping creatures? No, they're not worshiping holograms. They're

877
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:24,920
not worshiping created phantasms. They're not worshiping created analogs, they're

878
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:31,079
worshiping the preincarnate logos. So just as it's possible for

879
01:07:31,159 --> 01:07:35,920
the logos to be incarnate, excuse me, preincarnate. When he

880
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:38,599
manifests as the Angel of the Lord, and the Old

881
01:07:38,639 --> 01:07:41,760
Testament saints bow down and worship, and he's given the

882
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:46,480
name Lord Yahweh. Just as he's able to enter into

883
01:07:46,559 --> 01:07:53,599
time and space, so also can he become incarnate, and

884
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:58,079
so also can the uncreated light that is his divine

885
01:07:58,119 --> 01:08:04,920
glory manifest and the transfiguration. Now, all of Roman Catholicism

886
01:08:06,119 --> 01:08:10,639
says that the light that manifests in Matthew seventeen is created,

887
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:13,480
I have never heard. So I don't know where the

888
01:08:13,599 --> 01:08:15,440
uniates or any of that. Maybe they could come up

889
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:17,720
with something. I've never heard it because I've never heard

890
01:08:18,239 --> 01:08:22,760
a Roman Catholic say that that is uncreated light, because

891
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:26,680
that would deny the whole of the analogianis and the

892
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:30,119
causal view of how God relates to the world. In

893
01:08:30,239 --> 01:08:36,000
everything I've ever seen in Romanism, I have never seen

894
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:40,880
a Roman theologian say that Matthew seventeen is the actual

895
01:08:41,039 --> 01:08:45,560
uncreated light of God entering into time and space manifesting

896
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:51,199
for the apostles to see, and yet that's what happens. Now,

897
01:08:51,319 --> 01:08:55,239
maybe there's some uniate theologian out there in some university

898
01:08:55,319 --> 01:08:59,520
somewhere who thinks that it is that does not translate

899
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:03,640
into the possibility of that existing in Roman Catholic dogma.

900
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:11,439
Let me make another point on that too, which is

901
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:13,399
a little more practical, but I think is still a

902
01:09:14,399 --> 01:09:18,399
persuasive argument, which is that, let's say that it's true

903
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:23,520
that ninety nine point nine percent of the Romancolic Church

904
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:25,800
does not believe that, and zero point one percent of

905
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:30,399
the Romancolic Church does hold that, and somehow that's legitimately true,

906
01:09:31,039 --> 01:09:33,960
and you can somehow hold that opinion within Roman Catholism,

907
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:35,760
which you can. But let's say for them, you say

908
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:37,920
the argument that you can. What does it say for

909
01:09:38,039 --> 01:09:42,279
a church that has two mutually exclusive positions, and the

910
01:09:42,399 --> 01:09:46,279
supposedly true Church has for many, many, many centuries, ninety

911
01:09:46,359 --> 01:09:49,279
nine point nine percent of it held that that light

912
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:53,199
is created, but point one percent has actually been correct,

913
01:09:54,039 --> 01:09:58,079
and nobody else in this church knows it. That's ridiculous,

914
01:09:58,239 --> 01:10:03,760
that's stupid. So you are the Apostolic Church and zero

915
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:09,319
point one percent actually knows this very basic doctrine. But

916
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:12,920
the rest of the whole thing has bumbled on this

917
01:10:13,119 --> 01:10:17,439
for centuries. That's absurd. What's more likely the case, right,

918
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:22,199
that that it's just two different doctrines, Right, That's what

919
01:10:22,359 --> 01:10:28,199
this whole debate is predicated on. Now, somebody them said, well,

920
01:10:28,319 --> 01:10:32,800
but Barleam isn't really representative of the Roman Catholic position.

921
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:35,840
Yes he is. He's perfectly representative of the of the

922
01:10:36,039 --> 01:10:39,960
Roman Catholic position because he became a Catholic bishop, Roman

923
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:44,039
Catholic and eventually the views that he holds are one

924
01:10:44,399 --> 01:10:47,079
percent across the board what you find in any standard

925
01:10:47,159 --> 01:10:53,640
Roman Catholic dogmatic manual. Now he moves then to an

926
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:58,439
argument that I've made many times, what Roman Catholic would

927
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:02,680
dare say the glory of God is created. In John seventeen,

928
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:06,520
we have Jesus launching into an extensive discussion the high

929
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:10,039
priestly prayer about the glory of God that he possessed

930
01:11:10,079 --> 01:11:11,840
with the Father before the foundation of the world, that

931
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:13,760
he shared in common with the Father, and the spirit

932
01:11:14,159 --> 01:11:18,920
that he will give to the apostles. And he clearly

933
01:11:19,119 --> 01:11:22,439
between verses one to three and then to verse twenty

934
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:26,800
says that it's the same glory. It's not a created

935
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,119
analog that he's going to give us. It's not a

936
01:11:29,279 --> 01:11:32,319
supernatural creature that he's going to give us. The same

937
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:37,560
glory that he possessed with the Father before the foundation

938
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:39,840
of the world, he says, will be given to us

939
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:45,760
and to the apostles. Is that a creature? Of course,

940
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:50,880
it isn't. No more than the light of the transfiguration

941
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:54,720
itself is a creature. It is the uncreated light that

942
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:57,479
Paul talks about when he says God dwells an unapproachable

943
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:09,600
light to Timothy, if grace is created and grace is Christ,

944
01:12:10,039 --> 01:12:12,359
Christ is, in other words, if we're getting what Christ had,

945
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:18,479
If the grace that we're getting is created, it's a

946
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:23,680
supernatural creation, and the glory that Christ has is a

947
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:31,680
supernatural creation, then Christ is a creation exactly. And that's

948
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:38,960
how the argument falls into arianism. Barleam says, well, look,

949
01:12:39,079 --> 01:12:43,600
the Saints, though, reply to you. This is every Roman Catholic.

950
01:12:44,399 --> 01:12:47,439
Isn't this hilarious that every interaction that you have with

951
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:50,079
Roman Catholics and Thomas on this point, and Protestants too.

952
01:12:50,159 --> 01:12:53,199
Let's include the Protestants have the same view. Let's not

953
01:12:53,439 --> 01:12:57,399
make this just about Roman Catholics, because the Protestants, ninety

954
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:00,279
nine point nine percent of all Protestants adhere to the

955
01:13:00,399 --> 01:13:04,359
Western doctrine of absolute devine simplicity across the board in

956
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:08,199
all of their theologies, whether it's Charles Hodge or Burkhoff

957
01:13:08,359 --> 01:13:13,520
or BABVNC or Calvin or Luther, they all believe in

958
01:13:14,159 --> 01:13:17,039
absolute divine simplicity in this same way all the way

959
01:13:17,119 --> 01:13:21,600
up into the Puritans. They say the same things. And

960
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,000
what's the next reply that you get from every single

961
01:13:24,079 --> 01:13:26,840
tomust Ah? But you see, God is one and simple,

962
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:28,880
and the Church fathers teach that God is one and simple,

963
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:32,680
and therefore you making this distinction, you make God composed.

964
01:13:36,359 --> 01:13:39,319
Of course, we believe God is one and simple, but

965
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,079
we don't believe that the simplicity and unity of God

966
01:13:42,399 --> 01:13:45,079
is compromised by there being a real distinction between the

967
01:13:45,119 --> 01:13:47,520
person's do we of course not right, Father, Son, and

968
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:50,880
Spirit are really and truly distinct from or another. They're

969
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:53,439
not modes or masks that God has. Right, that would

970
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:57,239
be modalism, that would be Sabellianism. We don't believe that

971
01:13:57,279 --> 01:14:00,159
that was rejected in the Church. Right, So, when, for example,

972
01:14:00,159 --> 01:14:02,880
Athanasius argues with the arians. He points out that the

973
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:07,479
action of God generating the Son is eternal and natural.

974
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:13,119
It's therefore divine. Right, It's not caused in the sense

975
01:14:13,159 --> 01:14:16,439
of temporal causes. It's an eternal cause, where the Father

976
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:21,920
eternally generates the son. There was no point at time

977
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:25,319
in which the son was not it's an eternal generation.

978
01:14:28,279 --> 01:14:33,840
That eternal generation suggests a real distinction. Right. The Father

979
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:38,880
is the unriginal cause, the son, the eternal generated son.

980
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:47,079
That eternal action of generating, which Athanasius does say is

981
01:14:47,079 --> 01:14:53,119
an action, is distinct from any action of creating or

982
01:14:54,079 --> 01:14:59,279
contemplating the creation the logi the exemplars. Right, the son,

983
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:02,479
the eternally generated son, is not identical to either of

984
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:06,960
those things. Right, But it is an eternal movement of

985
01:15:07,079 --> 01:15:13,800
the Father generating the son. Cause suggests movement, But it's

986
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:19,399
not a movement. That's like the energy that goes into

987
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:24,840
creating the world. Therefore, there's a natural movement, a natural,

988
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:28,560
eternal begetting of the Father's nature, which is the son.

989
01:15:29,319 --> 01:15:33,039
And therefore, because it's eternal, because he's of the Father's nature,

990
01:15:33,279 --> 01:15:38,439
he's absolutely fully divine. He's not any lesser ontological metaphysical status.

991
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:44,039
Than the Father, But that eternal generation is an action

992
01:15:44,199 --> 01:15:47,960
that's distinct from the action of creating the world, right,

993
01:15:48,199 --> 01:15:50,039
because the world comes to be at a point in time.

994
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:53,560
If you don't believe in a distinction between essence and energy,

995
01:15:55,159 --> 01:15:58,600
and you believe in divine simplicity, then the son is

996
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:02,600
a creature. The action of creator, of generating the sun

997
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:10,039
is like the action of creating the world. What distinguishes

998
01:16:10,119 --> 01:16:14,680
eternally generating from creating in time and space? Now, if

999
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:16,680
you'd have the base with Muslims, they will tell you

1000
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:19,319
that God is eternally a creator, and because he's eternally

1001
01:16:19,359 --> 01:16:24,840
a creator, the Son is a creature. There's no eternal logos.

1002
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:30,039
I'm saying, there's no eternal logos. That's the second person

1003
01:16:30,079 --> 01:16:33,439
of the God had In Islamic theology. Islama theology has

1004
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:36,960
this confusing thing about the Koran being an eternal word.

1005
01:16:37,359 --> 01:16:40,640
Whatever point being is that they don't believe in the trinity, right,

1006
01:16:41,079 --> 01:16:43,079
And one of the reasons they don't is because they

1007
01:16:43,119 --> 01:16:48,359
don't have a problem identifying God being creator, with God

1008
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:52,880
being Father and with the essence. Right, So it's the

1009
01:16:53,159 --> 01:16:56,760
it's essential to God to be a creator, and if

1010
01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:59,439
it's essential to God to be a creator, and God's

1011
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:05,439
essence is eternal, and God is eternally a creator. That's

1012
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:11,399
what the Aryans argued. And since fatherhood is essential, being

1013
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:15,960
unoriginal is essential. Anything other is a work of God,

1014
01:17:17,319 --> 01:17:19,720
and if anything else is a work of God, it's

1015
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:27,079
distinct from that one essence, that one fatherhood, that one creator. Therefore,

1016
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:30,199
the Son is the first creation of God. He's the

1017
01:17:30,279 --> 01:17:32,600
first work of God. And then through that Son he

1018
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:37,800
created the world. That's the Aryan view. But you see,

1019
01:17:38,079 --> 01:17:42,279
we have to make a distinction between the eternal generation

1020
01:17:42,359 --> 01:17:47,000
of the son and that action and the action of

1021
01:17:47,079 --> 01:17:52,680
creating the world the essence in distinction. That's one example

1022
01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:56,439
of that. You say, well, Jay, where is this? This

1023
01:17:56,640 --> 01:18:00,640
is proven to be the argument that Athenatianus makes against

1024
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:02,720
the Arians. If you read the Father of Fluorovsky essay,

1025
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:06,479
e cciited it many many times. The whole essay proves

1026
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:10,760
beyond any shadow of doubt that that's the whole context

1027
01:18:11,039 --> 01:18:15,399
of the Aryan argument, And in fact, Saint Gregor Palamos

1028
01:18:15,399 --> 01:18:18,399
will even cite that very debate and then cite Saint

1029
01:18:18,439 --> 01:18:21,800
Cyril of Alexandria using the same arguments for the Essen

1030
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:25,960
Sentergy section. This is baffling to me that the goofy

1031
01:18:26,079 --> 01:18:29,760
Roman Catholics come in here trying to use Athenasious and

1032
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:33,319
Saint Cyril to disprove the Essen senergy stinction when that's

1033
01:18:33,399 --> 01:18:37,920
a key lynch pin in their argumentation. Uh, let me

1034
01:18:38,039 --> 01:18:43,600
add this, so again we have to stress this Athanasius

1035
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:50,920
whole argument against the Arians is what I was just

1036
01:18:50,960 --> 01:19:03,079
telling you, and anybody who reads the famous Fluoroski essay

1037
01:19:03,279 --> 01:19:07,000
will know that beyond any shadow without now point being

1038
01:19:07,199 --> 01:19:20,039
is that this essay, we know that that this is

1039
01:19:20,159 --> 01:19:26,439
not just something that uh Fluorofsky cooked up, because it's

1040
01:19:26,479 --> 01:19:29,760
the same argument is made in here. It's not something

1041
01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:32,279
that Florofsky is made. Let me get clever here and

1042
01:19:32,319 --> 01:19:34,760
try to prove that Athanasius believing the essence energy distinction

1043
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:37,640
to no, No, it's the same argument was made for

1044
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:46,319
centuries before in Saint Gregory. So as we moved through

1045
01:19:46,399 --> 01:19:57,399
then the debate continues by saying, Barley, Barlem, there's the possibility, well, uh,

1046
01:19:57,640 --> 01:20:01,319
maybe that these distinctions are just into uh oh wherever

1047
01:20:01,359 --> 01:20:04,199
we heard this before? Oh, every Roman Catholic ninety nine

1048
01:20:04,239 --> 01:20:08,439
point nine percent of right, Maybe the distinctions that we're

1049
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:14,359
talking about are just intellectual. But the intellect can see

1050
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:17,600
these distinctions, but really in themselves are all the same,

1051
01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:20,560
because if we thought these distinctions were real, it would

1052
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:22,880
mean that God's composed. How many times we have to

1053
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:26,000
respond to the same point. Distinction does not entail composition

1054
01:20:26,079 --> 01:20:29,319
or division. And if you can admit that the Father

1055
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:32,039
is the cause of the son, does all the Eastern

1056
01:20:32,079 --> 01:20:35,479
fathers say, then you already admit the distinction does not

1057
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:39,880
entail division or composition. So there should be no problem

1058
01:20:40,439 --> 01:20:45,399
in believing and a distinction between God's energies, actions and

1059
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:50,159
what he is at himself. And in fact, he says

1060
01:20:50,199 --> 01:20:53,239
that if you believe in fact, this is Saint Gregory's argument. Now,

1061
01:20:53,279 --> 01:20:58,159
he says, if you believe that God is absolutely simple,

1062
01:20:59,079 --> 01:21:03,359
but that you participate in a created, supernatural grace that's

1063
01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:06,880
also divine, then you make two gods. You have a

1064
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:10,600
uncreated God and a created God that you participate in

1065
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:16,279
a created, supernatural grace, which is literally what they say

1066
01:21:17,199 --> 01:21:19,600
is that the same as the uncreated. The Roman Catholic

1067
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:22,159
will tell you no, if that's not the same, then

1068
01:21:22,199 --> 01:21:24,079
you have two gods. You have a created God you

1069
01:21:24,119 --> 01:21:26,079
worship and you have an uncreated God you worship, so

1070
01:21:26,239 --> 01:21:32,439
actually you are the Diaddic polytheis not the Orthodox because

1071
01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:35,479
we believe that the uncreated energies are fully God. The

1072
01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:37,920
distinction between essence and energy is not a composite God.

1073
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:42,039
It's not two gods. Every energy is fully divine. They're

1074
01:21:42,119 --> 01:21:45,359
not accidents in the aarriistic thing and sense. God is

1075
01:21:45,399 --> 01:21:48,760
not substance an accident. Yes, correct, he's not composed, but

1076
01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:51,039
that doesn't mean that differentiation in him is not real.

1077
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:55,079
It's not merely conceptual. Are the persons in the triad

1078
01:21:55,239 --> 01:21:59,840
only conceptual notional distinctions virtual distinctions? No, they're real. The

1079
01:22:00,119 --> 01:22:02,840
Father really does eternally generate the Son. That's not a

1080
01:22:03,079 --> 01:22:08,159
notional distinction. It's an actual, eternal begetting. And that's why

1081
01:22:08,199 --> 01:22:11,199
the Father, as all the person of the Father, as

1082
01:22:11,239 --> 01:22:14,880
all the fathers teach, is the soul, cause and monarchia

1083
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:20,920
of the Godhead. The next team moves to the beatific vision.

1084
01:22:21,279 --> 01:22:23,039
He says that if you believe that you will see

1085
01:22:23,079 --> 01:22:27,720
the essence of God, you are a Eunomian exactly. And

1086
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:30,800
this disproves Luke and his madness from yesterday or two

1087
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:33,920
days ago, whatever it was, because Luke says that it's

1088
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:36,439
only about what the statements in the dogma are about

1089
01:22:36,600 --> 01:22:40,199
divine simplicity. No, it's not. It immediately goes into beatific vision.

1090
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:43,600
The Roman doctrine of the beatific vision, where your intellect

1091
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:46,000
is finally satiated and you're made happy by seeing the

1092
01:22:46,119 --> 01:22:49,039
essence of God, is utterly absurd and Eunomian. It's the

1093
01:22:49,079 --> 01:22:51,359
same heresy as Eunomius, and the same heresy as the

1094
01:22:51,399 --> 01:22:53,880
Massallians who said that there's all the essence of God.

1095
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:58,439
And Saint Gregory then moves into saying, you are now

1096
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:02,000
in a presubositional trap. Did you hear me? A presubositional

1097
01:23:02,119 --> 01:23:06,640
trap because you have hung yourself on an either or

1098
01:23:09,119 --> 01:23:11,439
And the idiot Roman Catholics say that I make up

1099
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:15,479
the presuppositional argument. No, no, this is the presubsistional argument,

1100
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:19,640
because he's putting Barleum into the either or traps that

1101
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:23,840
Barleum has created for himself. It's not. We are not

1102
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:26,439
in the either or trap because we deny the dialectical

1103
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:30,159
tension of either or right. There can be distinctions in

1104
01:23:30,239 --> 01:23:34,760
God without composition or division. Barleum says, our intellect rises

1105
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:37,520
up to see the essence of God. First we must

1106
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:41,239
move through this pathway of creatures, and then we through

1107
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:44,560
intellectual vision like Plato, we can see the essence of God.

1108
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:47,880
And then in the eternal state will be perfectly satiated

1109
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:50,720
and we won't want to change, will be perfectly fixated

1110
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:53,359
in a static vision of the essence of God. That

1111
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:58,359
is Platonism. That's what Plato said, That's what Origin says.

1112
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:06,520
The typic vision is the heresy of Originism and Plato. Now,

1113
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:09,159
the only difference is that Origin thought that in order

1114
01:24:09,239 --> 01:24:11,680
to retain free will, you have to be able to

1115
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:15,119
move your gaze away from that one essence of God.

1116
01:24:15,199 --> 01:24:17,680
And that's what the fall is. The fall is your

1117
01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:21,039
intellect moving away from the singular essence of God and

1118
01:24:21,199 --> 01:24:27,720
falling then into creatureliness. Again, No, all that Plato crap,

1119
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:30,920
We've tossed all that out. That's once again Jerusalem versus Athens.

1120
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:34,439
We don't want any of that nonsense. It's not our

1121
01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:39,000
created intellect that sees the essence of God. Okay, body, soul,

1122
01:24:39,079 --> 01:24:43,119
and noose are transformed by the uncreated energies. That's the

1123
01:24:43,239 --> 01:24:48,239
key here. So when Saint Maximus discusses the vision that

1124
01:24:48,359 --> 01:24:51,800
we have, Maximus says explicitly, we do not see the

1125
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:55,079
essence of God. What we see are the many logi,

1126
01:24:55,840 --> 01:25:01,079
the many uncreated energies in the one logos, very different

1127
01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:08,640
the exemplars. Now, he moves to the exemplar argument. How

1128
01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:11,039
many times have you heard me make the exemplar argument?

1129
01:25:11,119 --> 01:25:13,720
I made it against classical theists, made it against other

1130
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:18,640
Thomas because it's absurd. The exemplars are identified in Tonism

1131
01:25:19,439 --> 01:25:21,680
and in most of Aromatholicism, with the essence of God.

1132
01:25:22,119 --> 01:25:26,359
Augustine says this, even but the exemplars of created things,

1133
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:30,159
the patterns, principles, and archetypes of all the created things

1134
01:25:30,239 --> 01:25:32,960
are not identical to the essence of God. The essence

1135
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:37,479
of God is absolutely simple and undifferentiated. It's a perfect unity, right,

1136
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:42,279
And so if created things are based in the essence

1137
01:25:42,319 --> 01:25:45,399
of God for their patterns and archetypes, then all things

1138
01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:48,479
are nothing but reflections and manifestations of the essence of God,

1139
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:52,119
which is impossible, and thus all if you're consistent with that,

1140
01:25:52,159 --> 01:25:53,840
you would actually believe in Maya. You would believe that

1141
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:57,760
distinctions in the world are actually illusory, because there's no

1142
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:01,840
such thing as chair fareness. Right, The chair doesn't have

1143
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:04,880
an archetype in the essence of God. The essence of

1144
01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:08,640
God is not like any created thing. Moses says this,

1145
01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:12,399
does he not right? Not only does Moses say this,

1146
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:14,359
Paul says this in Act seventeen when he goes and

1147
01:26:14,439 --> 01:26:21,119
he talks to the philosophers battling Hellenic philosophy. Act seventeen

1148
01:26:21,239 --> 01:26:25,720
is completely a refutation of Hellenic presuppositions. He says, the

1149
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:28,640
divine nature is not like anything created. It's not like

1150
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:34,560
gold and silver and things in temples. That's idolatry. What

1151
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:37,920
does Rome Catholicism say creatures are analogs to the essence

1152
01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:44,119
of God. You're an idolator, now, I know that they

1153
01:26:44,199 --> 01:26:46,520
say that. Yeah, but it's not a perfect analogy to

1154
01:26:46,560 --> 01:26:48,760
the essence of God. It's not an analogy the essence

1155
01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:50,880
of God at all. There's no creatures that are like

1156
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:54,279
the essence of God. That's why we are in perfect

1157
01:26:54,319 --> 01:26:58,840
continuity with Moses. When Moses sees God and experiences God,

1158
01:26:59,239 --> 01:27:03,199
he experiences the goodness of God. It's made explicit in Exodus.

1159
01:27:03,279 --> 01:27:05,000
God says, I'm not gonna show you my face, it

1160
01:27:05,039 --> 01:27:08,159
would kill you, but i will show you my goodness

1161
01:27:08,319 --> 01:27:09,560
is the goodness of God created?

1162
01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:11,079
Speaker 3: No, it's not.

1163
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:21,239
Speaker 1: The goodness of God is uncreated. Go read dynasties. Next

1164
01:27:21,359 --> 01:27:23,840
he begins to say, all right, I'm gonna let's argue

1165
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:26,479
not just from the logie of Saint Maximus. Because Saint

1166
01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:29,520
Maximus writes at length and Ambiguum seven, which we will

1167
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:33,000
cover in Part two, on the uncreated energies, the uncreated logi.

1168
01:27:34,439 --> 01:27:37,880
He says, creatures revealed to us those logi, but they're

1169
01:27:38,159 --> 01:27:41,399
they're not identical. Creatures are not identical to the exemplars,

1170
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:43,600
and the exemplars are not the essence of God. This

1171
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:47,880
is very key, and Maximus is unambiguous about that, Hence

1172
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:51,520
the Ambiguum number seven where he covers this issue. The

1173
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:56,039
logi right, Therefore, it is absurd and stupid to identify

1174
01:27:56,159 --> 01:27:58,600
the exemplars with the essence of God, which classical theists

1175
01:27:58,720 --> 01:28:01,199
still does. Then he was on to say that God

1176
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:03,880
may have done many other works beyond the works that

1177
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:08,319
we know. He has energies that we don't know, because

1178
01:28:08,359 --> 01:28:13,479
Scripture says he has many, many, many infinite works. We

1179
01:28:13,520 --> 01:28:20,319
will never exhaust the works of God. And who does

1180
01:28:20,399 --> 01:28:25,199
he cite for that, Saint Basil Saint Basil says, God

1181
01:28:25,880 --> 01:28:28,920
has many, many works, and he has even more works

1182
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:33,560
that we don't even know. And I'm sure, oh, you're

1183
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:37,800
making up those quotes. Those are all made up. All

1184
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:41,680
this is referenced. So let's give you the citations. This

1185
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:47,439
is against Eunomius chapter two to cite Maximus, it is

1186
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:52,880
Ambiguum seven, and it is Maximus against Thalassios chapter thirteen.

1187
01:28:53,319 --> 01:28:55,119
There you go go look these up. Write these down

1188
01:28:55,159 --> 01:28:58,479
and look them up. Liars, you're making those quotes of

1189
01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:03,600
Next he moves to said Barlem moves on. He says,

1190
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:14,560
all right, look, maybe the grace itself isn't created. It's

1191
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:18,239
actually uncreated. So Barleum moves his position, and now he

1192
01:29:18,279 --> 01:29:20,960
says that, no, we really do participate in theosis. We

1193
01:29:21,079 --> 01:29:26,800
really do, and we're really getting divinity, but that divinity

1194
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:29,720
is uncreated. And this is what you will see the

1195
01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:32,960
Roman Catholics do. They get so confused. They will literally

1196
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:36,039
flip back and forth and say both things within the

1197
01:29:36,079 --> 01:29:39,039
same debate. They'll say the same no, No, you're really

1198
01:29:39,119 --> 01:29:42,680
getting a supernatural created grace. The grace itself was created.

1199
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:45,119
And then like five minutes later they'll be like, well

1200
01:29:45,199 --> 01:29:48,000
you are participating in the divine nature. In duification, you're

1201
01:29:48,039 --> 01:29:51,720
really being deified, and it's the divine nature. Is the

1202
01:29:51,760 --> 01:30:02,319
divine nature a supernatural creature? No, So Saint Gregory calls

1203
01:30:02,359 --> 01:30:05,359
out barleym here and he says, you earlier you said

1204
01:30:05,399 --> 01:30:07,680
that it was a creature, and now you're saying it's uncreated.

1205
01:30:10,319 --> 01:30:14,560
And then he says that if you were consistent, you

1206
01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:19,399
would adopt atheism because absolute divine simplicity actually cuts God

1207
01:30:19,479 --> 01:30:23,279
off from being imminently present in this world. Exactly. It

1208
01:30:23,439 --> 01:30:26,640
removes the imminent energies of God, and it makes God

1209
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:31,520
a cut off being who only interacts through created effects

1210
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:34,560
in this world. That's what every Thomas will tell you. Yeah, okay,

1211
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:37,079
if that's the case, then that leads to atheism. We

1212
01:30:37,119 --> 01:30:40,039
don't actually know. We never interact directly with that God.

1213
01:30:40,439 --> 01:30:43,199
And in fact, all we have are created analogs which

1214
01:30:43,239 --> 01:30:48,359
are supposed to tell us these different attributes. How do

1215
01:30:48,399 --> 01:30:50,880
you know if you're experiencing mercy as opposed to foreknowledge,

1216
01:30:50,880 --> 01:30:53,680
as opposed to justice, as opposed to love, as opposed

1217
01:30:53,720 --> 01:30:57,359
to punishment, as opposed to wrath. You don't, So you

1218
01:30:57,520 --> 01:31:00,960
never know because this God is cut off from this world.

1219
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:04,239
If all we ever experience is creative effects, how is

1220
01:31:04,279 --> 01:31:08,359
there an incarnation, a real incarnation, the second person that

1221
01:31:08,399 --> 01:31:13,079
God had really became incarnate in time and space. He's

1222
01:31:13,119 --> 01:31:16,359
not just a created effect. It's not just a notional

1223
01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:20,560
virtual incarnation. It's not just a conceptual incarnation. That's why

1224
01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:25,000
you're a heretic. God is wholly present in each energy,

1225
01:31:25,560 --> 01:31:31,239
and therefore there is not parts to God. Next, he

1226
01:31:31,359 --> 01:31:33,960
moves on to dealing with the fact that sat Dinysius

1227
01:31:34,159 --> 01:31:37,560
says the essence of God has no name. God is divinity,

1228
01:31:38,319 --> 01:31:41,840
and that unity, that power is beyond our conception, and

1229
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:44,199
therefore it itself has no name. We do not know

1230
01:31:44,359 --> 01:31:47,920
the essence of God. Even when we say God is

1231
01:31:49,159 --> 01:31:53,960
super substantial, God is a super essential one, we are

1232
01:31:54,039 --> 01:31:56,840
not naming that essence, he says. Those are just still

1233
01:31:57,520 --> 01:32:02,359
energetic titles for God. Even the name one, and even

1234
01:32:02,399 --> 01:32:06,600
the name essence is an energy because what it signifies

1235
01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:09,680
we don't know. We're not saying that they're confused. We're

1236
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:12,439
not saying that essence is energy. We're saying that we

1237
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:15,720
only know that God is one essence because He's revealed it.

1238
01:32:17,399 --> 01:32:19,359
So if we say that the grace of God that

1239
01:32:19,439 --> 01:32:25,000
we get is a created light. He says, that is

1240
01:32:25,079 --> 01:32:28,319
an impiety. That would mean that we aren't really deified.

1241
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:33,439
We're just given another creaturely substance, another creaturely accident. I

1242
01:32:33,479 --> 01:32:35,399
don't care. It doesn't matter whether you say it's a

1243
01:32:35,479 --> 01:32:37,960
created substance or a created accident, because the point is

1244
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:40,960
that it's a creature. This is the other bumble that

1245
01:32:41,399 --> 01:32:44,960
Mathema tried to play gotcha on, and it actually functioned

1246
01:32:45,000 --> 01:32:48,359
to get him, and that's why he crumbled this last week.

1247
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:51,800
Saint Gregory goes on to say, if the Father is

1248
01:32:51,880 --> 01:32:55,840
the soul caushi monarchia of the godhead, as Barlem admits,

1249
01:32:55,880 --> 01:32:57,279
which by the way, some of the Thomas don't even

1250
01:32:57,279 --> 01:32:59,000
admit this. If you go and listen to the doctor

1251
01:32:59,039 --> 01:33:02,560
Fine Gold de Bait. He was lost when I said this,

1252
01:33:02,760 --> 01:33:06,279
which is common parlance amongst all the fathers for the

1253
01:33:06,319 --> 01:33:10,319
first eight centuries. Barleam admits that the Father is the

1254
01:33:10,359 --> 01:33:13,560
sole cause. Then Gregory moves on to say, then distinction

1255
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:16,479
does not entail division, because he's the cause of the son,

1256
01:33:17,039 --> 01:33:19,359
and that implies a real distinction between father and son,

1257
01:33:21,079 --> 01:33:23,600
and Barlem says, yes, it is a real distinction. But

1258
01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:26,680
that doesn't mean that the essence of God is composed.

1259
01:33:28,399 --> 01:33:31,880
And at this point Gregory Saint Gregory says, yeah, exactly right,

1260
01:33:32,399 --> 01:33:35,800
And so he goes then to Saint Athanasius. He says,

1261
01:33:35,800 --> 01:33:38,880
Saint Anthonasius teaches a distinction between essence and energy page

1262
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:42,199
sixty one, and therefore there is no absolute simplicity. He

1263
01:33:42,279 --> 01:33:46,159
says that God's actions are not his essence, and God's

1264
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:50,319
referring to God as he or to his existence is

1265
01:33:50,399 --> 01:33:53,000
not identical to his essence, and he cites st Athosian

1266
01:33:53,359 --> 01:33:56,000
Athanasius in multiple places there to prove.

1267
01:33:55,880 --> 01:33:56,399
Speaker 4: That that is so.

1268
01:33:56,920 --> 01:34:02,399
Speaker 1: Again, let me once again send you the essay where

1269
01:34:02,479 --> 01:34:09,000
we have the argumentation proving the many, many citations proving

1270
01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:17,920
that Athanasius does not teach absolute divine simplicity athenacious. Entire

1271
01:34:18,119 --> 01:34:23,760
argumentation against the Arians is predicated on there being a

1272
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:27,680
real distinction between God's nature and his will and counsel,

1273
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:33,600
and that has proven definitively, and that same argument that

1274
01:34:33,680 --> 01:34:34,800
Fluorofsky makes is right.

1275
01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:34,960
Speaker 3: Here.

1276
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:42,279
Speaker 1: We have then a litany of essence energy distinction citations.

1277
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:46,279
I tweeted many of these out yesterday. He then launches

1278
01:34:46,319 --> 01:34:49,520
into this litany of many of them, one of them.

1279
01:34:49,560 --> 01:34:52,439
Let's let's let's read a couple of them. Athanasius says,

1280
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:56,920
the God being God is second to his essence. Did

1281
01:34:57,000 --> 01:35:00,960
you hear me? God being God is second to his essence?

1282
01:35:03,600 --> 01:35:07,640
Gregory says, if the judgments of God cannot be discerned

1283
01:35:07,680 --> 01:35:10,199
in any way are searched out, and the promise of

1284
01:35:10,239 --> 01:35:13,000
good things transcends all conjecture founded upon the queries, how

1285
01:35:13,079 --> 01:35:14,960
much more is the divine nature higher than all the

1286
01:35:15,039 --> 01:35:17,840
things that are set about it? And on account of

1287
01:35:17,880 --> 01:35:22,640
it unnameable and unapproachable? Saint Basil says, when all of

1288
01:35:22,680 --> 01:35:26,479
these activities, which are the activities of the Spirit, they

1289
01:35:26,479 --> 01:35:30,039
are unnameable due to their greatness, and innumerable because of

1290
01:35:30,039 --> 01:35:32,199
their multitude. For how can we think that what is

1291
01:35:32,239 --> 01:35:38,319
above the ages and which were His activities before the

1292
01:35:38,399 --> 01:35:41,279
intelligible creation? Did you hear that? Which were his activities

1293
01:35:41,319 --> 01:35:44,399
before the creation? How many of are those graces which

1294
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:47,199
flow from Him to creation? And what is the power

1295
01:35:47,279 --> 01:35:50,000
of those in relationship to the coming age? Hence, even

1296
01:35:50,039 --> 01:35:52,720
when you think something about above the ages, even that

1297
01:35:52,920 --> 01:35:56,880
is lower than the Spirit himself. So God's actions are

1298
01:35:56,960 --> 01:36:01,079
not identical to who he is would then that the

1299
01:36:01,199 --> 01:36:03,439
essence of God, which is above all names and unutterable,

1300
01:36:05,199 --> 01:36:09,359
abound around which are the powers and energies which are

1301
01:36:09,399 --> 01:36:13,439
also before all ages. Right. And he elsewhere he distinguishes

1302
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:16,399
the energies that are eternal from all time, such as

1303
01:36:16,479 --> 01:36:18,960
the glory of God, the love of God, to the

1304
01:36:19,119 --> 01:36:22,000
energies that relate only to space and time, right creating

1305
01:36:22,039 --> 01:36:25,600
the world. And that's dealt with at length in the Triads.

1306
01:36:27,199 --> 01:36:30,119
And again this is all straight from Easter for Fathers.

1307
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:33,479
Then he moves on to talk about Grace itself. He says,

1308
01:36:34,760 --> 01:36:40,439
if if we are deified, then it has to be supernatural,

1309
01:36:40,520 --> 01:36:43,159
does it not? And Barlam says yeah, I would agree

1310
01:36:43,199 --> 01:36:45,880
with that, right, And so if grace is supernatural, then

1311
01:36:45,880 --> 01:36:49,239
it cannot be identified with natural and Barleum says, I agree.

1312
01:36:49,680 --> 01:36:52,680
He says, are created things natural? He says, yes, in

1313
01:36:52,760 --> 01:36:55,399
this sense they are. Well, then if it's supernatural, it

1314
01:36:55,439 --> 01:36:58,039
has to be uncreated, and Barlium says, yes, I would

1315
01:36:58,039 --> 01:37:01,399
agree with that. Then therefore or Grace is uncreated and

1316
01:37:01,520 --> 01:37:04,920
not a supernatural created substance exactly. He says that if

1317
01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:07,960
we participate in the un in the glory of Christ. Again,

1318
01:37:08,279 --> 01:37:11,520
he says that then that signifies a real participation in

1319
01:37:11,800 --> 01:37:15,600
uncreated grace with the very life that God has. Yes,

1320
01:37:16,079 --> 01:37:18,439
he says that that is uncreated. Next he moves to

1321
01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:22,319
proving this again from Saint Basil, and not letter two

1322
01:37:22,359 --> 01:37:25,840
thirty four, but actually from a different letter. This is

1323
01:37:25,920 --> 01:37:29,079
letter one eighty nine where Saint Bezos is. But either

1324
01:37:29,159 --> 01:37:31,800
you call the nature of God divinity, and then the

1325
01:37:31,920 --> 01:37:34,680
nature of the three is one, or you call the

1326
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:37,239
energies divinity and then the act the energy of the

1327
01:37:37,279 --> 01:37:40,399
three persons is one. Correct. So there, once again is

1328
01:37:40,439 --> 01:37:44,600
Basil make the distinction between essence, energy, nature, will person.

1329
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:48,439
They're all distinguished. But does that mean that distinction entails divisions?

1330
01:37:48,560 --> 01:37:50,199
Are we saying that God is made up of these

1331
01:37:50,279 --> 01:37:53,680
ten parts? No, of course not. He's not made up

1332
01:37:53,720 --> 01:37:55,920
of twenty parts. Not if he has infinite energies, he's

1333
01:37:55,960 --> 01:37:58,039
not made up of a million different energies. Right, Doing

1334
01:37:58,399 --> 01:38:00,920
different actions creating the world and on water doesn't mean

1335
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:05,920
that he has two different parts. There, there's two different actions. Next,

1336
01:38:06,000 --> 01:38:07,439
he goes on to talk about the fact that the

1337
01:38:09,680 --> 01:38:15,319
many energies are not abstract. They are in hypostatic, meaning

1338
01:38:15,359 --> 01:38:19,439
that they are personal. Right, and then he says, the

1339
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:22,039
fact that there's a distinction does not mean that they're divided.

1340
01:38:22,720 --> 01:38:25,319
God is not composed, because there's a distinction between his

1341
01:38:25,399 --> 01:38:28,800
actions and his essence. And he proves this by saying

1342
01:38:28,840 --> 01:38:31,119
that look at the seven spirits of God. Right, we

1343
01:38:31,199 --> 01:38:34,079
have this statement from scripture from Isaiah and then from

1344
01:38:34,119 --> 01:38:36,680
the Apocalypse, the seven spirits of God sent out to

1345
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:40,520
the seven churches. He says, are those created or uncreated?

1346
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:44,319
Barlam says, those are the spirit they're uncreated, And he

1347
01:38:44,359 --> 01:38:47,840
says yes. And then what does he cite? He cites

1348
01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:50,600
what I just cited last night or the other night

1349
01:38:50,680 --> 01:38:54,720
from Saint Maximus. Sat Maximus says in that section that

1350
01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:59,439
the seventh spirits are the uncreated energies that God transfers

1351
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:02,800
to the church. He says, when we say that the

1352
01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:06,359
seven spirits of God are present, that they're real, differentiated

1353
01:39:06,760 --> 01:39:09,640
actions of God, the works of the spirit. He says,

1354
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:13,079
does that mean that God has seven parts? Is God divided?

1355
01:39:13,199 --> 01:39:16,079
It's the Holy Spirit divided into seven because they're seven spirits.

1356
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:19,439
Of course not. And he says, do you think that

1357
01:39:19,479 --> 01:39:23,079
they're really different? He says, does everybody have the same

1358
01:39:23,199 --> 01:39:27,279
gifts in the church? No right. And in one Corinthians twelve,

1359
01:39:27,319 --> 01:39:29,840
when Paul uses this term inner gaia in the Greek,

1360
01:39:30,279 --> 01:39:33,359
he says that the spirit distributes many gifts, and he says,

1361
01:39:33,399 --> 01:39:35,800
there's many workings of the spirit in that text, many

1362
01:39:35,840 --> 01:39:39,039
innergayia of the spirit, and yet one spirit does that

1363
01:39:39,239 --> 01:39:42,640
negate the distinction? No right. So one person can have

1364
01:39:42,720 --> 01:39:45,159
the gift of tongues, which is from the spirit, and

1365
01:39:45,239 --> 01:39:47,159
another person can have the gift of ministry and the

1366
01:39:47,159 --> 01:39:51,399
gift of mercy or whatever. Are they all the same no?

1367
01:39:52,399 --> 01:39:56,359
Are they the same spirit? Yes? So then therefore you

1368
01:39:56,439 --> 01:40:03,000
can have distinction that's real without division or composition. One

1369
01:40:03,159 --> 01:40:06,520
Corinthians twelve is abundantly clear. The Greek word is entergaia,

1370
01:40:07,119 --> 01:40:09,439
and the works of the spirit are really divine, They're

1371
01:40:09,479 --> 01:40:15,600
not created analogs. Next, I want to mention that Saint

1372
01:40:15,640 --> 01:40:20,039
Gregory calls Barlem stupid and heretical. Now, a lot of

1373
01:40:20,039 --> 01:40:22,119
people get mad, and they will be super pious and

1374
01:40:22,159 --> 01:40:24,239
they will act like, don't ever say that somebody is

1375
01:40:24,279 --> 01:40:28,399
stupid and heretical. Saint Gregory just calls Barlem stupid and heretical.

1376
01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:31,600
There's nothing inherently wrong when it is in fact the

1377
01:40:31,680 --> 01:40:34,000
case that a person is stupid. To call them stupid,

1378
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:37,079
now you should not be mean. It should not come

1379
01:40:37,159 --> 01:40:42,840
from a place of hatred or a pride. But if

1380
01:40:42,880 --> 01:40:45,680
in fact a person is being stubborn and stupid and foolish,

1381
01:40:46,119 --> 01:40:48,960
as the Bible many many times calls people foolish, which

1382
01:40:49,000 --> 01:40:51,520
presupposes that you have the ability to recognize when people

1383
01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:54,840
are foolish. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's nothing

1384
01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:58,720
wrong with continuing and nowaday if we believe this religion

1385
01:40:59,319 --> 01:41:01,359
to say that the people who still hold this view

1386
01:41:01,399 --> 01:41:04,680
are stupid and heretical. Now, being a heretic, of course,

1387
01:41:04,760 --> 01:41:09,800
requires obstinacy, wilfulness. Right, You're not just accidentally a heretic. Right,

1388
01:41:11,239 --> 01:41:14,119
heresy is a sin of will, not just a sin

1389
01:41:14,159 --> 01:41:16,359
of ignorance. Now, a person can be wilfully ignorant, but

1390
01:41:16,399 --> 01:41:21,039
that's a different issue. Heresy requires knowledge and obstinacy. In

1391
01:41:22,079 --> 01:41:25,359
our moral theology and amongst the Church fathers. Right, you

1392
01:41:25,439 --> 01:41:28,199
can be ignorant and wrong. Doesn't mean you're saved just

1393
01:41:28,239 --> 01:41:30,520
because you're ignorant. I'm not saying that either, But I'm

1394
01:41:30,560 --> 01:41:33,960
saying that a heretic in the parlance of the Church fathers,

1395
01:41:34,319 --> 01:41:36,239
in canon law, and so forth. There's a person who

1396
01:41:36,439 --> 01:41:40,199
demonstrates obstinacy. That's why Paul says, reject a heretical man

1397
01:41:41,039 --> 01:41:43,760
after the first and second admonition. Right, Paul doesn't say

1398
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:47,359
reject everybody because everybody's a heretic, Right, he says, reject

1399
01:41:47,399 --> 01:41:49,520
it to Timothy, a heretical man after the first and

1400
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:52,359
second admonition. That's why what you see me typically do

1401
01:41:53,199 --> 01:41:57,960
is when people are obstinate, obtuse, ridiculous, I don't interact

1402
01:41:58,000 --> 01:42:02,159
with them anymore. That we will interact initially, we'll have

1403
01:42:02,279 --> 01:42:06,199
a time period. If you are obstinate, I move on

1404
01:42:07,199 --> 01:42:11,359
and I don't interact with you anymore. And so Basil

1405
01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:15,479
excuse me. Barleum, according to the Synod, according to Saint

1406
01:42:15,520 --> 01:42:20,399
Gregor Palomas, is called stupid and heretical. David Bentley Hart

1407
01:42:20,520 --> 01:42:24,079
is stupid and heretical because he's literally repeating what Barleam says.

1408
01:42:24,119 --> 01:42:27,600
He says that there's no distinction. Pallemism is not different

1409
01:42:27,640 --> 01:42:31,079
from Romantholicism, even though Roman Catholicism is literally what Barleam says.

1410
01:42:32,479 --> 01:42:34,680
And I can therefore say that David Bentley Heart is

1411
01:42:34,720 --> 01:42:42,760
stupid and heretical. Saint Gregor Palamas moves on into emphatically

1412
01:42:43,520 --> 01:42:47,600
stress again that the seven spirits of God in scripture

1413
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:51,560
do not necessitate the spirit is divided up into seven parts.

1414
01:42:51,680 --> 01:42:54,079
It doesn't mean that the spirit has seven persons, He's

1415
01:42:54,119 --> 01:42:58,960
not seven hypostases, but that there really are distinct differences.

1416
01:42:59,079 --> 01:43:04,239
There are differences in these seven spirits. Next, we have

1417
01:43:04,439 --> 01:43:08,159
the allegation of act as purists that God is pure

1418
01:43:08,199 --> 01:43:11,960
act He is his existence, he is his essence, and

1419
01:43:13,920 --> 01:43:17,239
Barlem falls back on saying, well, again, if there's a distinction,

1420
01:43:17,319 --> 01:43:19,279
then it must mean God has composed of parts. So

1421
01:43:19,399 --> 01:43:21,560
he just kind of like just like a Roman collage. Repeat,

1422
01:43:21,560 --> 01:43:23,079
it doesn't matter what you say. You say all this

1423
01:43:23,159 --> 01:43:24,960
stuff and then just fall back into saying, yeah, but

1424
01:43:25,000 --> 01:43:28,000
God doesn't have parts, Well, that would mean God's composed.

1425
01:43:29,399 --> 01:43:33,039
Distinction does not entail composition or Division's that's where the

1426
01:43:33,159 --> 01:43:36,680
argument goes next. Distinction does not entail composition or division.

1427
01:43:38,079 --> 01:43:40,119
While their son in spirit are distinct, that does not

1428
01:43:40,319 --> 01:43:46,800
entail composition and division. Even Luke was admitting to me

1429
01:43:48,199 --> 01:43:52,199
that a Quinas admits nature in person are distinct. Yes

1430
01:43:52,239 --> 01:43:55,199
he does, but he contradicts himself. That's the point. So

1431
01:43:55,279 --> 01:43:57,960
if nature and person are distinct. God's will is distinct

1432
01:43:59,079 --> 01:44:05,159
from his essence and from the persons. These are real distinctions.

1433
01:44:06,359 --> 01:44:08,239
Is the fact that they're distinct mean that God has

1434
01:44:08,359 --> 01:44:12,119
divided up into parts? Nope, And that's where the word

1435
01:44:12,319 --> 01:44:17,680
in hypostatized comes into to focus here. In hypostatize, all

1436
01:44:17,760 --> 01:44:20,680
that means is that the mode in which nature always

1437
01:44:20,720 --> 01:44:25,159
exists is in persons. Right. It's always instantiated in persons.

1438
01:44:25,960 --> 01:44:29,399
There's no abstract human nature. Human nature always is in

1439
01:44:29,520 --> 01:44:33,159
the mode of persons. Right. There is a universal human

1440
01:44:33,239 --> 01:44:35,680
nature that you and I, we all share, but it

1441
01:44:35,720 --> 01:44:38,840
always exists in the mode of some person. It's in me,

1442
01:44:39,039 --> 01:44:41,359
it's in you, right, and it's common. We all share it.

1443
01:44:41,960 --> 01:44:44,680
And in the same way in God, there's a common

1444
01:44:44,840 --> 01:44:50,439
unified nature. Right, but three persons. Now, the mode of

1445
01:44:50,520 --> 01:44:52,279
being that God has is different from the mode of

1446
01:44:52,319 --> 01:44:54,800
being that humans have. Right. So, even though we're saying

1447
01:44:54,880 --> 01:44:58,399
that there's in hypostatized for both God and for humans,

1448
01:44:59,000 --> 01:45:02,399
God doesn't exist separate human right, It's not like three

1449
01:45:02,600 --> 01:45:07,800
different beings. Right. We believe in the Father is the

1450
01:45:07,920 --> 01:45:11,039
source of unity because he communicates that divinity to the

1451
01:45:11,359 --> 01:45:14,800
son into the Spirit and also, each of these three

1452
01:45:14,840 --> 01:45:18,239
persons dwell one another. So the Father fully imperfectly endwells

1453
01:45:18,239 --> 01:45:20,920
the Son and the Spirit. The Spirit perfectly and fully

1454
01:45:21,039 --> 01:45:29,479
dwells the Father and the Son et Sara Sarah. If

1455
01:45:29,520 --> 01:45:37,119
you identify the existence, person an essence of God in

1456
01:45:37,239 --> 01:45:40,479
a real sense, all as if they are perfectly simple.

1457
01:45:41,279 --> 01:45:43,199
Saint Gregory then moves on to say that you will

1458
01:45:43,239 --> 01:45:46,159
be an atheist, and this position will end in atheism.

1459
01:45:48,640 --> 01:45:51,359
And the fact that we call God one does not

1460
01:45:51,560 --> 01:45:56,880
mean that he's undifferentiated. If you believe in actus purists,

1461
01:45:57,159 --> 01:46:00,000
you should be a modalist. He says, how many times

1462
01:46:00,119 --> 01:46:01,000
have you heard me say that?

1463
01:46:02,720 --> 01:46:03,239
Speaker 3: Many times?

1464
01:46:05,000 --> 01:46:07,520
Speaker 1: Now somebody will say, yeah, but John Damascus, this is

1465
01:46:07,600 --> 01:46:11,199
what next. Barlem moves then to say yeah, but wait, wait, wait,

1466
01:46:11,239 --> 01:46:16,239
but John Damascus says God is not composed of substance

1467
01:46:16,319 --> 01:46:20,760
an accident. Gotcha, bro, Now, look how stupid this is,

1468
01:46:20,920 --> 01:46:23,560
because not only does John Damascus say, of course God

1469
01:46:23,640 --> 01:46:25,760
is not composed of substance and accident. But that's because

1470
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:29,600
the uncreated energies aren't accidents, right, They're not accidents in God.

1471
01:46:30,840 --> 01:46:30,960
Speaker 3: Uh.

1472
01:46:32,119 --> 01:46:35,119
Speaker 1: And John Damascus goes on at great length from book

1473
01:46:35,199 --> 01:46:39,359
one using the argument for essence introducing in there to

1474
01:46:39,520 --> 01:46:42,560
applying it to Christology. And every one of these Tomas,

1475
01:46:42,680 --> 01:46:45,520
especially Mathema, are completely dishonest because if they would read

1476
01:46:45,560 --> 01:46:47,920
the work, they would know they would see that he

1477
01:46:48,119 --> 01:46:50,880
uses the essence introducinction in book one to apply that

1478
01:46:51,039 --> 01:46:53,560
to the Christology and the energies in Christ in book

1479
01:46:53,600 --> 01:46:57,199
three the energies in Christ. Right, And there's a come

1480
01:46:57,279 --> 01:46:59,720
up with a million different objections. He's not talking about

1481
01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:02,000
inner God, He's just talking about energy in general. No,

1482
01:47:02,279 --> 01:47:05,720
the section is about the energy is in Christ. What

1483
01:47:05,880 --> 01:47:12,840
a bunch of liars. So Barleam pulls the trick that

1484
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:15,840
Aldo Thomas pull, which is that well, John Damascus says

1485
01:47:15,880 --> 01:47:18,560
God's not composed and he doesn't have accidents, correct, and

1486
01:47:18,680 --> 01:47:20,960
the energies are not accidents. Now let's look at another

1487
01:47:21,760 --> 01:47:25,439
argument that doctor Taylor Marshall has used, and he's relied

1488
01:47:25,479 --> 01:47:27,960
on this. I refuted this argument in a comments debate

1489
01:47:28,159 --> 01:47:31,560
ten years ago, and he still uses the same dumb argument.

1490
01:47:32,640 --> 01:47:35,720
Point I refuted this in the lectures on John Damascus.

1491
01:47:36,920 --> 01:47:41,159
Taylor Marshall says, yeah, but Basil says God's essence is one.

1492
01:47:41,800 --> 01:47:45,159
Of course, it's his essence is one he says God

1493
01:47:45,800 --> 01:47:48,800
say John Damascus says God's energy is one. Therefore, absolutely

1494
01:47:48,840 --> 01:47:54,199
my simplicity, You dishonest person, read the book. The book

1495
01:47:54,359 --> 01:47:58,399
doesn't just say God's energy is one. It says God's

1496
01:47:58,439 --> 01:48:06,399
energy is one and multip They love to do this.

1497
01:48:06,960 --> 01:48:11,039
They quote Hunt and rip it out and ignore the

1498
01:48:11,159 --> 01:48:14,279
entire context. They do it with Athenacius, where they ignore

1499
01:48:14,319 --> 01:48:16,199
the fact that the entire context of the debate is

1500
01:48:16,239 --> 01:48:21,279
about God's actions being distinct from his nature. They do

1501
01:48:21,319 --> 01:48:23,319
it with Johnamascus where they pull out the quot where

1502
01:48:23,359 --> 01:48:25,439
he says that God's energy is one, and then they

1503
01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:27,399
leave out the part where he later says God's energy

1504
01:48:27,479 --> 01:48:31,079
is also multiple. They set up the dialectics all the time.

1505
01:48:33,680 --> 01:48:35,640
By the way, we want to add a little adendum

1506
01:48:35,680 --> 01:48:39,399
here which refutes the modernists and the Ecumenus, where the

1507
01:48:39,439 --> 01:48:43,720
Saint Gregor Palomas in chapter thirty five launches into a

1508
01:48:43,840 --> 01:48:47,960
lengthy discussion well one page, that the scriptures are an

1509
01:48:48,039 --> 01:48:50,560
errant they do not contain errors, they are God inspired

1510
01:48:50,600 --> 01:48:53,560
in every respect, they do not have theological errors. They're

1511
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:56,680
not historically inaccurate, and you have to believe this. I

1512
01:48:56,840 --> 01:48:59,439
have stressed this over and over and over, you can't

1513
01:48:59,479 --> 01:49:08,159
believe that the scriptures are have errors. Next, Gregory Pelmus

1514
01:49:08,199 --> 01:49:12,600
stresses again the person nature distinction is similar to the

1515
01:49:12,680 --> 01:49:15,720
distinction between the cause the father being the cause of

1516
01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:18,399
the son. Now he's not saying that the same, but

1517
01:49:18,439 --> 01:49:20,920
he's saying that we believe in a real distinction between

1518
01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:23,039
person and nature and God. If we didn't, we would

1519
01:49:23,079 --> 01:49:25,600
be modalists. We also believe in a real distinction between

1520
01:49:25,680 --> 01:49:29,359
father as the sole cause and the son has caused. Right,

1521
01:49:29,640 --> 01:49:33,359
that is a real distinction, That is a real eternal generation.

1522
01:49:33,840 --> 01:49:37,039
That is a real distinction between father, son, and spirit.

1523
01:49:37,520 --> 01:49:42,079
He says, therefore, distinction is not composition or division. He

1524
01:49:42,199 --> 01:49:45,159
then goes on to cite Saint Athanasius and Saint John

1525
01:49:45,239 --> 01:49:50,880
Damascus at length in multiple places in this regard. Next,

1526
01:49:50,960 --> 01:49:55,600
he re emphasizes Saint Basil's arguments from Letter one eighty

1527
01:49:55,680 --> 01:50:01,319
nine about common energies signifying common nature, and then he

1528
01:50:01,399 --> 01:50:03,399
goes on to make the argument that if you were consistent,

1529
01:50:03,560 --> 01:50:06,000
you would be a modalist and a Eunomian, and that

1530
01:50:06,399 --> 01:50:10,199
Eunomius was more consistent than the Roman Catholic because Eunomius

1531
01:50:10,920 --> 01:50:13,119
believed in absolute to my simplicity and said that if

1532
01:50:13,119 --> 01:50:16,680
there's any distinctions and the Son is really distinct, then

1533
01:50:16,760 --> 01:50:21,000
he is not the same essence, and he would compromise

1534
01:50:21,159 --> 01:50:24,560
the perfect unity of God. That's Eunomius's argument. Eunomius is

1535
01:50:24,600 --> 01:50:27,520
more consistent than the Roman Catholics. Eunomia says, I'm a

1536
01:50:27,600 --> 01:50:32,880
modalist because if I admit that distinction entails division and composition,

1537
01:50:33,520 --> 01:50:35,359
and if I admit that the Sun is distinct, then

1538
01:50:35,399 --> 01:50:37,319
he's not of the same essence as the Father. He's

1539
01:50:37,359 --> 01:50:44,600
some other kind of being. Next, Saint Gregor Palamus cites

1540
01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:48,520
Saint Basil in against Eunomius, Chapter one, section eight, where

1541
01:50:49,000 --> 01:50:52,439
Saint Basil says that the simplicity doctrine where you unite

1542
01:50:52,479 --> 01:50:54,760
all the energies and actions in God and I say

1543
01:50:54,800 --> 01:50:57,359
that they are identical to the essence, is absurd. Once again,

1544
01:50:57,439 --> 01:51:03,159
Taylor Marshall and all these people are dishonest or they're ignorant. Next,

1545
01:51:03,239 --> 01:51:05,760
he says that you believe that in the resurrection you

1546
01:51:05,800 --> 01:51:08,920
will actually see the essence of God. He says that's

1547
01:51:08,960 --> 01:51:11,319
called the heresy of the Massallians who believed that they

1548
01:51:11,359 --> 01:51:14,439
saw the essence of God. Next, he says that when

1549
01:51:14,520 --> 01:51:16,880
Paul saw the divine light in Acts nine three and

1550
01:51:16,960 --> 01:51:20,680
Acts twenty two six, that was not a creature. Paul

1551
01:51:20,720 --> 01:51:25,760
actually saw Christ. Next, he moves to the famous letter

1552
01:51:25,840 --> 01:51:28,079
of Saint Basil Letter two thirty four, where Basil in

1553
01:51:28,199 --> 01:51:30,239
one page are used for the essence introduce section very

1554
01:51:30,279 --> 01:51:32,439
clearly saying that if you believe that all these are

1555
01:51:32,439 --> 01:51:34,880
identical to the essence of God, you are fool. And

1556
01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:37,920
he says that Saint Basil can say this and still

1557
01:51:38,000 --> 01:51:42,319
believe that God is perfectly holy, one and united. We

1558
01:51:42,399 --> 01:51:45,880
all participate in God in different ways, showing that distinction

1559
01:51:46,119 --> 01:51:49,600
is not division. Right, So he gets barleym to the

1560
01:51:49,640 --> 01:51:52,960
Barley might to admit this, if God is pure essence

1561
01:51:53,399 --> 01:51:57,039
and that we do really participate in God, then it

1562
01:51:57,079 --> 01:52:05,039
would lead to pantheism, correct Saint Gregory says. He then

1563
01:52:05,199 --> 01:52:07,920
restresses the fact that on one Corinthians twelve says that

1564
01:52:07,960 --> 01:52:11,560
there are different innergaya, different energies of the spirit one

1565
01:52:11,680 --> 01:52:15,840
Corinthians twelve, and those energies are actually and truly different. Therefore,

1566
01:52:16,079 --> 01:52:19,319
they're not identical, and they're not merely created effects. They

1567
01:52:19,359 --> 01:52:25,279
are uncreated. God is then multiple in a unified way

1568
01:52:25,439 --> 01:52:30,560
and unified in his multiplicity. Did you hear that God

1569
01:52:30,760 --> 01:52:35,279
is unified in a multiple way and multiple in a

1570
01:52:35,399 --> 01:52:39,439
unified way. That's the Orthodox doctrine, because we don't believe

1571
01:52:39,439 --> 01:52:41,920
in dialectics, and we don't believe in the stupid heresies

1572
01:52:42,479 --> 01:52:47,359
of Barley. They are called stupid heresies. Now, if they're

1573
01:52:47,399 --> 01:52:51,800
called stupid heresies by Saint Gregory Palamos, can we then

1574
01:52:51,960 --> 01:52:55,880
unite with the Roman Catholic mister ecumenists, No, we can't.

1575
01:52:57,159 --> 01:53:04,079
If they're called stupid heresies, then obviously they're different. Next,

1576
01:53:04,159 --> 01:53:07,279
he quotes to Saint Maximus. Sat Maximus says that the

1577
01:53:07,359 --> 01:53:11,560
Saints get the same uncreated energy that God has. And

1578
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:18,199
that is let's see where that is. The Saints get

1579
01:53:18,239 --> 01:53:22,279
the same energy as God. That is from Saint Maximus.

1580
01:53:24,000 --> 01:53:26,600
It's in two places. It's in the letter to Marhinus

1581
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:30,479
ninety one and it's in on Problems, section ninety one.

1582
01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:38,600
If you believe that you see God, you have the

1583
01:53:38,680 --> 01:53:49,319
doctrine of the Messallians. We as Orthodox, believe in divine simplicity.

1584
01:53:49,439 --> 01:53:51,920
We do not believe God is composed. He's not divided,

1585
01:53:52,039 --> 01:53:55,359
he doesn't have parts. And he says that I will

1586
01:53:55,399 --> 01:53:58,680
solve this dilemma for you. The divine is one. It

1587
01:53:58,800 --> 01:54:02,720
is simple. God has one essence. That one is is

1588
01:54:03,479 --> 01:54:08,479
is that one is, in an appropriate way, a whole

1589
01:54:08,720 --> 01:54:11,640
w h O l E. In relation to all things

1590
01:54:11,680 --> 01:54:15,479
that we think about it. God is not divided, He's

1591
01:54:15,560 --> 01:54:19,000
not split. He does not have parts. For it is

1592
01:54:19,079 --> 01:54:22,720
then a whole goodness, a whole wisdom, a whole justice,

1593
01:54:22,800 --> 01:54:26,840
a whole power, just as we as we experience him.

1594
01:54:26,880 --> 01:54:34,319
He's saying, He says, we think about God this way,

1595
01:54:34,600 --> 01:54:36,560
it is this. It is this in our thoughts, he says,

1596
01:54:36,600 --> 01:54:39,119
but it is not. It does not become this because

1597
01:54:39,159 --> 01:54:41,159
of because of our thoughts. In other words, it really

1598
01:54:41,279 --> 01:54:43,960
is this, not even when it is thought, but because

1599
01:54:44,000 --> 01:54:46,800
it is such from all eternity. Did you hear that?

1600
01:54:47,680 --> 01:54:51,000
What does the Thomas say? What do the Ecumenists say?

1601
01:54:51,239 --> 01:54:54,159
They say that Sant Gregor Palmas says that it's a

1602
01:54:54,199 --> 01:54:59,520
conceptual distinction. It's not real. It is not this because

1603
01:54:59,560 --> 01:55:03,399
of our and even when it is thought, it is

1604
01:55:03,520 --> 01:55:07,840
not this. But it is this from all eternity, because

1605
01:55:09,000 --> 01:55:14,439
these attributes manifest themselves through his works. So God is

1606
01:55:14,840 --> 01:55:18,199
one in as many works, and he's also multiple in

1607
01:55:18,319 --> 01:55:21,439
his many works, there is no dialectical tension between the

1608
01:55:21,479 --> 01:55:23,800
one and the many and God. We don't set the

1609
01:55:24,000 --> 01:55:26,359
essence of God over against the multiplicity in God. We

1610
01:55:26,399 --> 01:55:28,640
don't set the multiplicity in God over against the essence

1611
01:55:28,680 --> 01:55:31,399
of God. He's not more one than he is three.

1612
01:55:31,479 --> 01:55:35,680
He's not more three than he is one. He's perfectly one,

1613
01:55:36,319 --> 01:55:46,159
but he's also genuinely three. Next, he quotes Saint John

1614
01:55:46,239 --> 01:55:51,560
Christistom to the effect that the deifying grace that we

1615
01:55:51,680 --> 01:55:56,000
get is an energy of God, and that energy, in

1616
01:55:56,560 --> 01:56:00,359
order to deify us, is not created. We are not

1617
01:56:00,520 --> 01:56:03,239
deified if we are only giving another, if we are

1618
01:56:03,319 --> 01:56:08,119
given merely another creature. Salvation is not the giving of

1619
01:56:08,119 --> 01:56:12,239
another creature to us, but the uncreated to us. That's

1620
01:56:12,319 --> 01:56:15,960
how we become immortal. That's how we have eternal life.

1621
01:56:16,880 --> 01:56:20,880
Eternal life is not just created life. It's eternal life,

1622
01:56:21,000 --> 01:56:25,119
you see. Next he talks about the angelic nature and

1623
01:56:25,199 --> 01:56:28,560
how even that is created, makes some more distinctions between

1624
01:56:29,199 --> 01:56:31,479
human nature and angelic nature, but then he talks about

1625
01:56:31,600 --> 01:56:35,359
how the being of God is different. The book then

1626
01:56:35,640 --> 01:56:40,560
ends with the Barleamite admitting that he was incorrect, especially

1627
01:56:40,640 --> 01:56:44,119
after dozens of citations from the church fathers on the

1628
01:56:44,159 --> 01:56:48,479
distinction being real, and he says that those who are

1629
01:56:48,680 --> 01:56:52,600
haters of this and haters of Saint Gregor Palamas were

1630
01:56:52,680 --> 01:56:57,199
in fact actually envious and jealous. There you go. So

1631
01:56:57,359 --> 01:57:03,439
that is the summation of the dispute with Barleum, the

1632
01:57:03,520 --> 01:57:09,239
debate with Barleum. Clearly, the Ecumenists are incorrect. This is

1633
01:57:09,319 --> 01:57:12,920
not reconcilable with Tomism. Clearly Barleum says all the same

1634
01:57:12,960 --> 01:57:17,279
stuff as a quitas. Clearly, after this period the Roman

1635
01:57:17,359 --> 01:57:21,960
Catholic Church adopted the Barleumite type position across the board.

1636
01:57:22,079 --> 01:57:24,800
I don't just mean on propositions about what simplicity is.

1637
01:57:24,920 --> 01:57:28,399
I mean about God's simplicity. I mean about Christology. I

1638
01:57:28,439 --> 01:57:31,119
mean about the philioque, I mean about creative grace. I

1639
01:57:31,199 --> 01:57:33,239
mean about the sacraments, I mean about the Beetic vision.

1640
01:57:33,239 --> 01:57:35,319
And I mean about no doction of the news. That's

1641
01:57:35,600 --> 01:57:40,760
the critique. And by the way, the papacy itself is

1642
01:57:40,840 --> 01:57:46,359
also an outworking of divine simplicity. The imbalance of the

1643
01:57:46,439 --> 01:57:48,119
one and the many in the Trinity in the Roman

1644
01:57:48,159 --> 01:57:51,239
Catholic conception has led to the doctrine of the imbalance

1645
01:57:51,359 --> 01:57:53,119
of the one and the many in the church. That's

1646
01:57:53,199 --> 01:57:55,760
exactly why they have a supervision, because they have a

1647
01:57:55,800 --> 01:58:03,000
super essence, a super essence that's absolute, simple, right, all right,

1648
01:58:03,119 --> 01:58:05,960
So we see that the acumenists are wrong. We see

1649
01:58:06,039 --> 01:58:10,680
that it's uh. He calls the heretics stupid and heretics

1650
01:58:10,920 --> 01:58:14,000
and he and then the last point that we wanted

1651
01:58:14,079 --> 01:58:18,640
to make was once again in the different essay of

1652
01:58:18,840 --> 01:58:24,800
Father Fluorowsky, the essay called Saint Gregory Palamas in the

1653
01:58:24,840 --> 01:58:26,119
tradition of the fathers.

1654
01:58:26,800 --> 01:58:26,920
Speaker 3: Uh.

1655
01:58:27,079 --> 01:58:30,159
Speaker 1: Here we have the explanation of why this is dogmatic.

1656
01:58:30,319 --> 01:58:32,079
So I'm gonna put that in the chat. There there

1657
01:58:32,199 --> 01:58:38,680
is the other essay, and let's look at one of

1658
01:58:38,720 --> 01:58:47,520
the a couple of the quotes here from Fluorovsky. Saint

1659
01:58:47,560 --> 01:58:53,319
Gregory begins with the distinction between grace, essence and energy.

1660
01:58:55,479 --> 01:58:58,399
The divine and divinizing illumination of grace is not the essence,

1661
01:58:58,439 --> 01:59:01,800
but the energy of God. Right. The basic distinction was

1662
01:59:01,880 --> 01:59:05,640
formally accepted and elaborated at the Great Councils of Constantinople

1663
01:59:05,680 --> 01:59:09,199
thirteen forty one, thirteen fifty two, thirteen forty one, thirty

1664
01:59:09,239 --> 01:59:13,119
fifty one. Those who would deny this distinction are anathematized

1665
01:59:13,239 --> 01:59:17,279
and excommunicated. Did you hear that, Ecumenists, you cannot deny this?

1666
01:59:17,439 --> 01:59:21,760
Did you hear that David Bentley heart fordom you are excommunicated.

1667
01:59:22,840 --> 01:59:25,840
The anathemas of the Council of six fifty one were

1668
01:59:25,920 --> 01:59:29,199
included in the right for the Sunday of Orthodoxy in

1669
01:59:29,239 --> 01:59:33,800
the Triodion Orthodoxy. Elogians are bound by this decision. Do

1670
01:59:33,920 --> 01:59:38,680
you see that therefore we cannot unite with tumism. The

1671
01:59:38,840 --> 01:59:43,960
essence of God absolutely is incommunicable. The source and power

1672
01:59:44,960 --> 01:59:47,359
of human theosis is not the divine essence, but the

1673
01:59:47,439 --> 01:59:53,439
grace of God, the inner gaia, the divinizing energy by

1674
01:59:53,479 --> 01:59:56,680
participation of which one is devinized as a divine grace.

1675
01:59:56,800 --> 02:00:00,960
It is no way the essence of God or grace

1676
02:00:01,079 --> 02:00:04,039
is not identical to the uzia of the essence. Right

1677
02:00:05,840 --> 02:00:09,760
divine grace is an uncreated grace and energy. This distinction, however,

1678
02:00:09,840 --> 02:00:14,640
does not imply or affect division or separation. Here is

1679
02:00:14,800 --> 02:00:16,680
one of the greatest theologians of the twentieth century in

1680
02:00:16,680 --> 02:00:20,000
the Orthodox Church, Father Florowski, saying what you've heard me

1681
02:00:20,119 --> 02:00:24,880
say five hundred times. Nor is the uncreated grace an accident?

1682
02:00:25,159 --> 02:00:27,840
Do you see this? Thomas. He's telling you what I've

1683
02:00:27,840 --> 02:00:31,920
been telling you, but you don't listen. Energies proceed from

1684
02:00:31,960 --> 02:00:35,479
God and manifest his own being. The term proceed simply

1685
02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:38,680
suggests a distinction. Right, We're not talking about eternal procession

1686
02:00:38,680 --> 02:00:40,479
of the spirit here, is just using it in a

1687
02:00:40,720 --> 02:00:44,000
general sense here of coming from, but not a division.

1688
02:00:46,399 --> 02:00:48,600
The grace of the spirit is different from the substance

1689
02:00:48,680 --> 02:00:52,359
and yet not separated from it. Now what Roman Catholic

1690
02:00:52,560 --> 02:00:55,880
believes this? Maybe some of these uniates, but so what

1691
02:00:56,359 --> 02:01:02,319
the rest of their church rejects this? And let's read this.

1692
02:01:03,760 --> 02:01:07,880
Saint Gregory quotes Saint Cyril of Alexandria. Can you see that?

1693
02:01:08,359 --> 02:01:11,119
But Saint Cyril at this point was simply repeating Athanasius,

1694
02:01:11,479 --> 02:01:13,800
what have you been telling? Hearing me say the essence

1695
02:01:13,840 --> 02:01:17,520
s energy distinction is Athanasius's argument against the arians. If

1696
02:01:17,560 --> 02:01:20,000
you don't get that, you're a fool, and his reputation

1697
02:01:20,119 --> 02:01:24,199
of arianism. He formally stressed the ultimate difference between the

1698
02:01:24,319 --> 02:01:27,479
essence of God or the effusus the nature substance on

1699
02:01:27,560 --> 02:01:31,439
the one hand, and the will on the other, distinction

1700
02:01:31,600 --> 02:01:33,920
between will and counsel. If you read the other essay

1701
02:01:33,960 --> 02:01:36,840
where he covers this right and the essence of God.

1702
02:01:38,039 --> 02:01:40,920
This is why the Son is not a projection or

1703
02:01:40,960 --> 02:01:44,119
a result of the Father's will or energy or work,

1704
02:01:44,640 --> 02:01:47,279
but is in fact a direct offspring of the Father's nature.

1705
02:01:48,439 --> 02:01:51,760
That's my quote. Indeed, not a necessity of compulsion, no

1706
02:01:51,880 --> 02:01:54,960
faught to them, but a necessity of being itself. God

1707
02:01:55,079 --> 02:01:58,439
simply is what he is. God's will is eminently free.

1708
02:01:59,239 --> 02:02:01,920
He is in no sense necessitated to do what he does. Therefore,

1709
02:02:02,000 --> 02:02:04,439
creation is not identical to the act of creating, is

1710
02:02:04,479 --> 02:02:07,920
therefore not identical to the essence of God. The essence

1711
02:02:07,920 --> 02:02:10,079
of God is what it is by necessity if creation,

1712
02:02:10,479 --> 02:02:12,439
if the act of creating is identical to the essence

1713
02:02:12,479 --> 02:02:16,279
of God, then creating the world is just as necessary

1714
02:02:16,319 --> 02:02:19,319
as the essence of God. It's stupid. That's why Basil

1715
02:02:19,359 --> 02:02:20,039
calls it stupid.

1716
02:02:22,279 --> 02:02:22,399
Speaker 3: Uh.

1717
02:02:22,600 --> 02:02:25,960
Speaker 1: And so he then cites the section where the this

1718
02:02:26,159 --> 02:02:31,560
is dealt with in Contrarianos against the Arians, where he

1719
02:02:32,079 --> 02:02:34,399
talks about the energy of the will being distinct from

1720
02:02:34,399 --> 02:02:39,359
the nature. Athanasius teaches the essence energy distinction. There you go,

1721
02:02:40,079 --> 02:02:43,520
now shut your mouths. Of course, this distinction does not

1722
02:02:44,079 --> 02:02:47,279
compromise to buying simplicity. It is a real distinction. It

1723
02:02:47,359 --> 02:02:49,920
is not just a logical device. Can you hear that, Tomass?

1724
02:02:50,039 --> 02:02:52,239
Can you hear that? Can you hear that? Saint Gregory

1725
02:02:52,399 --> 02:02:55,279
was fully aware of the crucial import importance of this

1726
02:02:55,319 --> 02:02:57,479
distinction at this point. He is a true successor of

1727
02:02:57,520 --> 02:03:00,479
Athenasius and the Cappadocians, and so are we and you

1728
02:03:00,640 --> 02:03:08,159
are not all right? There we go very clear. Now

1729
02:03:08,239 --> 02:03:11,319
I will be taking questions. The next half of this

1730
02:03:11,479 --> 02:03:14,079
we will delve into the quotes that he uses from

1731
02:03:14,079 --> 02:03:18,640
Saint Maximus, will delve into the logi. Right, it's time

1732
02:03:18,720 --> 02:03:22,479
to return to the logos logi distinction in Saint Maximus,

1733
02:03:22,560 --> 02:03:26,680
the exemplars and how the Orthodox view believes them to

1734
02:03:26,800 --> 02:03:31,000
be created. Excuse me, uncreated energies, uncreated thought wills we

1735
02:03:31,119 --> 02:03:34,039
call them, and not exemplars in the essence of God

1736
02:03:34,159 --> 02:03:38,479
like the Thomas say, because that would lead to a

1737
02:03:38,640 --> 02:03:45,600
necessary creation. So there's that, and I'll take your super chats.

1738
02:03:46,119 --> 02:03:48,000
If you want to subscribe, you can go to Jasonelsons

1739
02:03:48,039 --> 02:03:50,439
dot com. You'll see the members subscribe to become a

1740
02:03:50,520 --> 02:03:53,439
member for all of the archives and the part two talks.

1741
02:03:54,239 --> 02:03:56,119
So if you want, if you're interested in Saint Maximus

1742
02:03:56,159 --> 02:04:00,319
and his statements on the logi, how the logo are

1743
02:04:00,319 --> 02:04:05,000
also uncreated energies, how he cites say Maximus. That's what

1744
02:04:05,119 --> 02:04:07,479
we'll talk about in part two. I've had many, many,

1745
02:04:07,520 --> 02:04:10,880
many requests for more on this from Maximus, so that's

1746
02:04:10,880 --> 02:04:13,520
what we're going to do in part two. But because

1747
02:04:13,600 --> 02:04:17,119
of the recent debates and controversies and events, this was

1748
02:04:17,800 --> 02:04:21,600
very timely both against the Ecumenists and the Roman Catholics

1749
02:04:21,840 --> 02:04:25,920
to show the distinction of the position. So I wanted

1750
02:04:25,960 --> 02:04:29,640
to make that whole book public. In terms of the discussion,

1751
02:04:30,000 --> 02:04:32,479
we'll get into the deeper stuff with Maximus and the

1752
02:04:32,560 --> 02:04:36,000
low GI in the second part. For subscribers, I'm going

1753
02:04:36,079 --> 02:04:38,479
to put the link into the chat right now. If

1754
02:04:38,520 --> 02:04:40,359
you want to subscribe to Jason Elysis for that, you

1755
02:04:40,439 --> 02:04:43,199
can do that over at my website. There you can

1756
02:04:43,239 --> 02:04:47,439
subscribe by paper or credit card. You can also get

1757
02:04:47,479 --> 02:04:50,439
my book. There are two books on philosophy and film

1758
02:04:51,000 --> 02:04:58,920
Start Hollywood one and two there for you and to subscribe.

1759
02:05:06,720 --> 02:05:09,720
Here is the link at the top for the tab

1760
02:05:10,319 --> 02:05:12,239
to subscribe to the website if you want to subscribe.

1761
02:05:13,600 --> 02:05:16,119
So there's that. You can also do it through Patreon

1762
02:05:16,279 --> 02:05:20,600
if you want to, and tutoring. Tutoring is available through patroon.

1763
02:05:22,079 --> 02:05:26,760
All right, let's get to some of these subgests. Hunter

1764
02:05:26,960 --> 02:05:30,439
twenty three ninety nine pounds as you ask, thank you

1765
02:05:30,520 --> 02:05:34,600
for asking. Hunter, appreciate that Hollywood Decoded two is not

1766
02:05:34,760 --> 02:05:39,279
going to happen. Unfortunately it was not. They did not

1767
02:05:39,399 --> 02:05:42,720
want to purchase another season. And I don't think our

1768
02:05:42,760 --> 02:05:45,560
other TV show is going to be purchased either. But

1769
02:05:45,640 --> 02:05:48,479
that's okay. TV shows come and go. There will be

1770
02:05:49,279 --> 02:05:51,920
more futures, I'm sure for all that kind of stuff.

1771
02:05:51,960 --> 02:05:53,920
And Hunter again says, it's a shame. It is a shame.

1772
02:05:53,920 --> 02:05:56,760
It would have been nice to have Hollywood to Code

1773
02:05:56,800 --> 02:05:59,720
season two or the other show that we were going

1774
02:05:59,800 --> 02:06:03,279
to do, Pop a Culture would have been cool. Maybe

1775
02:06:03,319 --> 02:06:06,000
we can maybe those will still get picked up. You know,

1776
02:06:06,079 --> 02:06:15,039
you never know. Uh Shale eight four nine, Jay, I'm

1777
02:06:15,079 --> 02:06:17,199
new to Orthodoxy and the only church nam he is Greek.

1778
02:06:17,199 --> 02:06:19,600
I've been going to liturgies and was wondering what I

1779
02:06:19,640 --> 02:06:22,119
should be wary of or asked the priests about. Well,

1780
02:06:22,159 --> 02:06:26,800
I mean you don't have to ask him questions to

1781
02:06:26,840 --> 02:06:29,039
see if you're wary. I mean you should be able

1782
02:06:29,079 --> 02:06:32,079
to get a feel for the church, for you know,

1783
02:06:32,359 --> 02:06:34,479
going there for a while to see if it's if

1784
02:06:34,520 --> 02:06:38,439
it's good or bad. But I mean, if you want

1785
02:06:38,479 --> 02:06:41,319
a simple test question, you could just say, do you

1786
02:06:42,319 --> 02:06:45,920
believe in higher critical approaches to the Bible?

1787
02:06:46,680 --> 02:06:46,800
Speaker 3: Uh?

1788
02:06:46,880 --> 02:06:49,319
Speaker 1: And do you believe and accept Freemasonry? Those are two

1789
02:06:49,399 --> 02:06:52,479
good test questions. And if he says that he believes

1790
02:06:52,479 --> 02:06:55,560
in higher criticism, then you know you have a modernist.

1791
02:06:56,279 --> 02:06:59,600
Or if he says he is cool with Freemasonry, then

1792
02:06:59,640 --> 02:07:01,600
you know that you probably should find a different one.

1793
02:07:03,039 --> 02:07:06,119
Are Juan non sequitor of five pounds? Doesn't the change

1794
02:07:06,239 --> 02:07:08,960
in the change in the tropos of the sun imply

1795
02:07:09,119 --> 02:07:12,319
a change in the hypostasis? Is a hypostasis divine or

1796
02:07:12,399 --> 02:07:15,880
divine human? What does the anthropos mean? Again? I feel

1797
02:07:15,920 --> 02:07:19,359
like I know who this is. I would let me,

1798
02:07:19,520 --> 02:07:21,720
you know, let me just get John Damascus out for you.

1799
02:07:25,119 --> 02:07:28,560
And I actually went and read the sections to all

1800
02:07:28,640 --> 02:07:32,159
the sections that I think you know who you are

1801
02:07:32,359 --> 02:07:36,439
sent to me. The first thing I will say is

1802
02:07:36,479 --> 02:07:41,119
that if you look at how in hypostatized is used

1803
02:07:41,239 --> 02:07:43,880
in the Philosophical chapters, you will notice that in chapter

1804
02:07:44,000 --> 02:07:47,239
twenty nine he talks about two different senses to the

1805
02:07:47,319 --> 02:07:49,399
way that this term is used. Sometimes it's used to

1806
02:07:49,520 --> 02:07:52,399
just talk about the way that human beings are, and

1807
02:07:52,520 --> 02:07:56,359
sometimes it's used to talk about the individual in itself,

1808
02:07:57,319 --> 02:08:01,479
in itself. Did you hear that in itself? Now?

1809
02:08:01,920 --> 02:08:02,039
Speaker 4: Uh?

1810
02:08:02,079 --> 02:08:07,039
Speaker 1: Huh? If you move over to chapter forty one, he

1811
02:08:07,319 --> 02:08:11,600
will tell you what it means. That what the hypostasis

1812
02:08:11,840 --> 02:08:18,600
becoming composite means one compound Hypostatius made from two natures.

1813
02:08:20,439 --> 02:08:23,760
The very thing I told you the whole time. The

1814
02:08:23,840 --> 02:08:29,640
hypostasis is personhood, correct, right, it's pre eternal. So Jesus

1815
02:08:29,760 --> 02:08:35,479
was a person from all eternity. What he assumed made

1816
02:08:35,560 --> 02:08:39,479
him composite. But what did he assume a nature? Right,

1817
02:08:41,239 --> 02:08:46,159
he's composite because he has two natures, one compound hypostasis

1818
02:08:46,640 --> 02:08:49,840
from two divine natures. Excuse me, from two natures, two

1819
02:08:49,880 --> 02:08:53,239
diverse natures, he says, one human, one divine. You see,

1820
02:08:55,079 --> 02:08:58,960
So I am not denying that he's composite, and I

1821
02:08:59,000 --> 02:09:02,520
don't have a problem saying that hypostasis is the subject

1822
02:09:02,880 --> 02:09:05,880
which is composite. But it's not the hypostasis itself, because,

1823
02:09:05,960 --> 02:09:09,720
as both down Damascus and Saint Maximus say, he he

1824
02:09:10,439 --> 02:09:14,239
is a reference to hypostasis personhood. He remained in himself

1825
02:09:14,359 --> 02:09:19,000
what he was. He remained what he was when he

1826
02:09:19,079 --> 02:09:24,960
assumed human nature. There was no alteration in the hypostasis itself,

1827
02:09:25,760 --> 02:09:29,279
in itself, because it's from all eternity. Now, when we

1828
02:09:29,399 --> 02:09:35,159
move on to chapter forty three, he discusses person what

1829
02:09:35,359 --> 02:09:40,760
is hypostasis? Right, and he talks about operations from the hypostasis,

1830
02:09:41,640 --> 02:09:43,000
and he says that one should know that the Holy

1831
02:09:43,079 --> 02:09:46,560
Fathers use the term hypostasis, person and individual in the

1832
02:09:46,640 --> 02:09:51,119
same way. So, for example, Peter and Paul are hypostasis, right,

1833
02:09:51,199 --> 02:09:54,000
but they have one common nature. Then he goes on

1834
02:09:54,079 --> 02:09:58,199
to discuss in hypostaton or in hyposthetized. He uses it

1835
02:09:58,359 --> 02:10:01,520
in the damn same sense that I told you that.

1836
02:10:01,640 --> 02:10:04,159
It means that the only mode or tropos in which

1837
02:10:05,359 --> 02:10:09,600
nature exists is in the mode or tropos of person.

1838
02:10:12,239 --> 02:10:15,479
What is called in hypostatized is that which has assumed

1839
02:10:15,640 --> 02:10:19,239
another hypostasis, and in this it has its existence. Thus,

1840
02:10:19,319 --> 02:10:22,520
the body of the Lord, since it never subsisted of itself,

1841
02:10:23,079 --> 02:10:26,399
not even as an infant, is not a hypostasis. The

1842
02:10:26,520 --> 02:10:28,680
human nature is not a hypostasis. Right, That would be

1843
02:10:28,800 --> 02:10:33,279
the stories, but it is in hypostatized because the divine

1844
02:10:33,359 --> 02:10:38,479
person is the hypostasis. The body of Christ has as

1845
02:10:38,600 --> 02:10:43,560
its personhood the divine person of the Logos, and this

1846
02:10:43,720 --> 02:10:47,199
is because it was assumed by the Hope. Again here

1847
02:10:47,239 --> 02:10:51,159
it is forty four. Why does Christ's humanity not have

1848
02:10:51,279 --> 02:10:55,640
any hypostasis of itself? Because it was assumed by the

1849
02:10:55,720 --> 02:11:01,640
hypostasis of God the Word, and this subsisted and does

1850
02:11:01,800 --> 02:11:06,039
have this for a hypostasis. So the hypostasis of the

1851
02:11:06,079 --> 02:11:09,119
body of the Word is the eternal second person of

1852
02:11:09,119 --> 02:11:12,479
the Godhead. The only person there, the only person that's present,

1853
02:11:13,199 --> 02:11:17,039
is the second person of the Godhead. Now you said,

1854
02:11:18,600 --> 02:11:20,560
and we can go over by the way in chapter

1855
02:11:20,760 --> 02:11:26,359
sixty six where he expounds in hypostatona again the two

1856
02:11:26,560 --> 02:11:32,960
natures are what becomes hypostatically united, but they are absolutely indivisible.

1857
02:11:33,000 --> 02:11:35,399
I told you that I believe that we don't mix them.

1858
02:11:35,880 --> 02:11:39,600
And you're a heretic for calling me. You're bad willed

1859
02:11:39,680 --> 02:11:42,560
for calling me a heretic saying that I'm a Monophysite.

1860
02:11:43,880 --> 02:11:56,520
And by the way, I don't want your money. He

1861
02:11:56,680 --> 02:11:58,720
goes on in chapter sixty six to say that the

1862
02:11:59,600 --> 02:12:04,000
hypo stasis of Christ assumed an additional nature, and he

1863
02:12:04,079 --> 02:12:07,560
talks about the controversies about Saint Cyril. He says that

1864
02:12:08,520 --> 02:12:10,760
in Christ, because in him the divine and the human

1865
02:12:10,960 --> 02:12:14,640
natures are united. Right, so he becomes composite because he

1866
02:12:14,720 --> 02:12:19,000
has two natures. Right, the hypostasis itself remains what he

1867
02:12:19,319 --> 02:12:26,520
was it in terms of he remains. The hypostasis is

1868
02:12:26,560 --> 02:12:31,199
subsistence in self. He says this in this section. This

1869
02:12:31,399 --> 02:12:38,560
is section sixty six. In Christ, the divine and the

1870
02:12:38,640 --> 02:12:42,000
human natures are united, while his animate body subsisted in

1871
02:12:42,319 --> 02:12:47,359
the preexistent hypostasis of God the Word. His animate body

1872
02:12:47,439 --> 02:12:54,079
subsisted and its mode of being, its existence is in

1873
02:12:54,199 --> 02:12:57,039
the pre existent person of God the Word. He's not

1874
02:12:57,119 --> 02:12:59,600
saying that the body of Christ existed from all eternity.

1875
02:12:59,600 --> 02:13:03,800
He's saying that the body of Christ subsists in the

1876
02:13:03,960 --> 02:13:10,399
pre existent hypostasis of God the Word. This body has

1877
02:13:11,119 --> 02:13:17,439
this logos for a hypostasis. It is, however, quite impossible

1878
02:13:17,479 --> 02:13:20,399
for one compound nature to be made from two natures

1879
02:13:20,520 --> 02:13:23,760
or from one, or for one hypostasis to be made

1880
02:13:23,840 --> 02:13:27,600
from two. Did you hear me? It is quite impossible

1881
02:13:27,720 --> 02:13:30,880
for one compound nature that would be a monophysite to

1882
02:13:31,000 --> 02:13:35,359
be made from two natures, or for one hypostasis to

1883
02:13:35,479 --> 02:13:39,159
be made from two. Therefore, it's not composite in itself.

1884
02:13:39,800 --> 02:13:42,439
It is composite in the sense of having two natures.

1885
02:13:44,720 --> 02:13:47,439
The hypostasis of Christ possesses a divine nature from all

1886
02:13:47,479 --> 02:13:51,840
eternity and united himself to a human nature, the humanity.

1887
02:13:52,079 --> 02:13:55,960
The human nature has for its hypostasis the second person

1888
02:13:56,039 --> 02:14:02,359
of the Godhead. It is quite impossible for one compound

1889
02:14:02,479 --> 02:14:06,720
nature to be made from two, or for one hypostasis

1890
02:14:06,840 --> 02:14:10,000
to be made from two, And then he goes on

1891
02:14:10,079 --> 02:14:20,159
to say that the hypostasis is subsistent in itself. It

1892
02:14:20,279 --> 02:14:23,079
must further be known that in the Holy Trinity, a

1893
02:14:23,479 --> 02:14:26,760
hypostasis is the timeless mode of each eternal existence. Right,

1894
02:14:26,880 --> 02:14:32,880
so each person exists in an eternal hypostatic mode. That's

1895
02:14:32,960 --> 02:14:35,279
not modalism. I know that you know that, but some

1896
02:14:35,359 --> 02:14:37,479
people might mishear me and think that I'm talking about modalism.

1897
02:14:38,279 --> 02:14:45,279
And then he also refused this in there's a section

1898
02:14:45,520 --> 02:14:49,520
in I made a note about this, we shared it

1899
02:14:49,600 --> 02:15:05,760
in the chat. There's a section in the defense where

1900
02:15:05,800 --> 02:15:10,479
he talks about this as well, when he talks about

1901
02:15:11,239 --> 02:15:15,800
who the hypostasis is from all eternity, And how the

1902
02:15:15,920 --> 02:15:18,399
only sense in which it's composite is the two natures.

1903
02:15:20,800 --> 02:15:24,039
He suffered no alteration or change in who he was,

1904
02:15:24,680 --> 02:15:29,640
except that he became composite in assuming nature human nature.

1905
02:15:32,079 --> 02:15:33,920
And by the way, how stupid is it to call

1906
02:15:34,039 --> 02:15:41,720
us monophysite when I sit here spending countless hours arguing

1907
02:15:41,800 --> 02:15:45,199
about two energies in Christ. There's no way to be

1908
02:15:45,319 --> 02:15:48,479
monophysite and hold to two energies in Christ, because energies

1909
02:15:48,560 --> 02:15:51,199
are properties and faculties of nature. If I was monophysite,

1910
02:15:51,239 --> 02:15:53,680
there would be one energy in Christ. I wouldn't be defending.

1911
02:15:53,720 --> 02:15:57,439
I wouldn't have giant stacks of books that deal with diothelitism.

1912
02:16:01,600 --> 02:16:06,960
By the way, speaking of Christ's composite after the incarnation

1913
02:16:07,039 --> 02:16:09,560
does not mean that we continue to view him as

1914
02:16:10,439 --> 02:16:12,800
if he were separate. He is the god Man. There

1915
02:16:12,880 --> 02:16:16,800
is only, and for all eternity one god Man. That's

1916
02:16:16,840 --> 02:16:19,560
why Saint Justin Popovich's works are so good is because

1917
02:16:19,640 --> 02:16:23,199
he consistently emphasizes the god Man. But just like it's

1918
02:16:23,239 --> 02:16:26,439
not wrong to talk about the theological controversies, and therefore

1919
02:16:26,520 --> 02:16:29,720
to talk about Christ as pre existent and Christ as

1920
02:16:29,800 --> 02:16:33,040
having two natures as this book does. Dummy, it's not

1921
02:16:33,159 --> 02:16:39,639
wrong to speak that way. So let's see the section

1922
02:16:40,040 --> 02:16:43,239
that is in the defense that deals with this is

1923
02:16:43,319 --> 02:16:55,479
where he talks about Cyril and the energies. This would

1924
02:16:55,559 --> 02:17:03,479
be section eleven of book three, where he talks about

1925
02:17:03,920 --> 02:17:07,280
in what sense the incarnation and the union happened? How

1926
02:17:07,319 --> 02:17:11,680
to understand Cyril. Dude, I wouldn't be sitting here quoting

1927
02:17:11,920 --> 02:17:17,159
look at this if my intention was to undermine Orthodoxy.

1928
02:17:17,319 --> 02:17:20,639
I wouldn't be citing the guy who the Monophysites don't like.

1929
02:17:20,799 --> 02:17:32,559
This is so stupid. So anyway, I may just write

1930
02:17:32,559 --> 02:17:43,719
an essay on this, because multiple sections in the What

1931
02:17:43,840 --> 02:17:46,799
you're not understanding is what it means to say that

1932
02:17:47,239 --> 02:17:49,639
he's a divine person from all eternity, right, the pre

1933
02:17:49,760 --> 02:17:51,920
existent eternal word.

1934
02:17:52,280 --> 02:17:52,399
Speaker 3: Right.

1935
02:17:54,280 --> 02:17:56,920
Speaker 1: I understand what you mean when you say he was complex.

1936
02:17:57,079 --> 02:17:59,959
He was simplex beforehand, and then he was complex because

1937
02:18:00,120 --> 02:18:03,920
he assumed a human nature. So sometimes you can talk

1938
02:18:03,959 --> 02:18:07,079
about the hypostasis for the whole person of Christ, and

1939
02:18:07,200 --> 02:18:09,479
sometimes you can talk about the hypostasis referring to it

1940
02:18:09,600 --> 02:18:12,559
in itself. That's not dividing Christ, that's not saying he's

1941
02:18:12,920 --> 02:18:15,280
he has parts after the incarnation that we want to

1942
02:18:15,280 --> 02:18:18,879
divide him. It's using the theological language that he uses. Okay,

1943
02:18:19,000 --> 02:18:22,360
So what you misunderstood was just simply the terminology. You

1944
02:18:22,440 --> 02:18:26,200
misunderstood the fact that saying the hypostasis is composite does

1945
02:18:26,239 --> 02:18:30,319
not mean the hypostasis itself is composite. He remains what

1946
02:18:30,479 --> 02:18:33,399
he was from all eternity. Both he and Saint Maximus

1947
02:18:33,559 --> 02:18:37,559
say that when they explain it anyway, I'm not interacting

1948
02:18:37,639 --> 02:18:44,120
with you anymore anyway, so themthrowpost is explained in book

1949
02:18:44,200 --> 02:18:47,920
three to mean what I'm telling you it means justin

1950
02:18:48,000 --> 02:18:50,559
stam ten dollars, Yo, dog, could you clarify Excess thirty

1951
02:18:50,559 --> 02:18:52,920
three eleven, where it talks about distinct attributes glory and

1952
02:18:52,959 --> 02:19:00,479
goodness seems to be different in translations. Well, of course,

1953
02:19:00,559 --> 02:19:03,040
I mean, as you know, the septuagen is the normative

1954
02:19:03,479 --> 02:19:11,159
text for us. So let's see what expdus thirty three.

1955
02:19:11,280 --> 02:19:17,959
I don't think that. I mean the point was to

1956
02:19:18,200 --> 02:19:21,879
differentiate God's essence from his actions, and that the story

1957
02:19:21,920 --> 02:19:25,799
of Moses tells us this. So let's see. Let's see

1958
02:19:25,799 --> 02:19:31,159
what thirty three eleven says that Moses spoke face to

1959
02:19:31,239 --> 02:19:40,520
face Okay, so you're saying that distinct attribute glory and goodness.

1960
02:19:40,799 --> 02:19:45,840
Thirty three eleven. All the people saw the pillar of

1961
02:19:45,879 --> 02:19:49,120
the Cloud and the tabernacle, and they worshiped each man

1962
02:19:49,159 --> 02:19:53,319
at his tent door. The Lord spoke face to face

1963
02:19:53,399 --> 02:19:55,600
with Moses as a man speaks to his friend. Then

1964
02:19:55,639 --> 02:19:58,799
he would return to the camp, but his servant, Joshua,

1965
02:19:58,920 --> 02:20:01,879
the son of Nune, a young man, did not depart

1966
02:20:01,959 --> 02:20:14,159
from the tabernacle. Okay, I mean, maybe I'm missing the

1967
02:20:16,799 --> 02:20:18,879
I mean, I know he tells Moses that he will

1968
02:20:18,920 --> 02:20:22,280
let his goodness pass before him. So let me look

1969
02:20:22,319 --> 02:20:29,360
at what the Masoretic text would read there thirty three eleven.

1970
02:20:32,000 --> 02:20:34,440
I don't I'm not seeing that. Maybe it's different between

1971
02:20:34,479 --> 02:20:37,760
the two agent and the masoretic text is what they issued.

1972
02:20:38,680 --> 02:20:41,399
So the Mazarek text says, so God the Lord spoke

1973
02:20:41,440 --> 02:20:47,079
to Moses face to face. Yeah, I don't see where

1974
02:20:47,079 --> 02:20:52,639
you're talking about the difference between glory and goodness. It's

1975
02:20:52,719 --> 02:20:56,079
it's you know, in the Moses story, it talks about

1976
02:20:56,760 --> 02:20:58,639
Moses says, let me see her face, and God says,

1977
02:20:58,840 --> 02:21:02,120
you can see my goodness. Sorry, justin I'm a little confused.

1978
02:21:02,680 --> 02:21:07,159
Misty earnst one dollar. Thank you missing appreciate that oplaton

1979
02:21:08,280 --> 02:21:24,559
o platon, the hypostasis itself is from all eternity. By

1980
02:21:24,559 --> 02:21:27,920
the way, this is all we have to do is

1981
02:21:28,040 --> 02:21:31,360
to read this. The only sense in which is composite

1982
02:21:32,000 --> 02:21:35,319
is because his hypostasis has appropriated and taken on a

1983
02:21:35,399 --> 02:21:39,879
human nature. The human nature has for its subject the

1984
02:21:40,239 --> 02:21:44,280
eternal divine person. Right, So in no sense is Christ

1985
02:21:44,360 --> 02:21:49,159
a human person. His humanity does have for its subject

1986
02:21:49,399 --> 02:21:52,959
a divine person, and Saint Maximus is very clear about that.

1987
02:21:54,319 --> 02:21:56,959
But when you read this book, which is a refutation

1988
02:21:57,200 --> 02:22:03,000
of monophysitism, it makes all of that very clear. By

1989
02:22:03,040 --> 02:22:04,719
the way, I'm banning you because I know who you

1990
02:22:04,799 --> 02:22:15,680
are and I don't want your five dollars. Sauna Shauna

1991
02:22:15,879 --> 02:22:21,399
Sawyer ten bucks. Bless Jay for explaining original Christianity, how

1992
02:22:21,920 --> 02:22:25,479
and how the theology practice is devolved from the time

1993
02:22:25,559 --> 02:22:27,760
the heresies of Franks, the great skills of the Reformation,

1994
02:22:28,159 --> 02:22:30,840
Renaissance Vatic into New World Order. Yes, that's the key.

1995
02:22:31,760 --> 02:22:36,040
It's it's it's a big picture, and that I think

1996
02:22:36,200 --> 02:22:40,479
is the correct analysis. Steve Green five bucks, what is

1997
02:22:40,600 --> 02:22:42,840
meant by accident in this context? Well, in the risk

1998
02:22:42,840 --> 02:22:48,159
Atilian conception, you have the notion of objects being composed

1999
02:22:48,879 --> 02:22:52,680
of substance or an essence, and then they have accidental qualities,

2000
02:22:52,680 --> 02:22:57,200
which are maybe secondary qualities. Right, So a chair has chairness,

2001
02:22:57,319 --> 02:23:00,319
but then it has the secondary or accidental quality such

2002
02:23:00,319 --> 02:23:04,159
as being read or being short, or being small or

2003
02:23:04,239 --> 02:23:09,360
you know whatever. Those are qualities that aren't necessary to

2004
02:23:09,520 --> 02:23:13,319
being a chair. But whatever chaerness is, that's the essence

2005
02:23:13,360 --> 02:23:16,959
of being a chair. Right. So in Roman Catholic theology

2006
02:23:17,520 --> 02:23:23,520
they will adopt the substance accident approach of Aristotle and

2007
02:23:23,600 --> 02:23:27,040
then try to kind of apply this across the board.

2008
02:23:28,559 --> 02:23:30,879
And then when they apply it to the deity, they say, well,

2009
02:23:31,280 --> 02:23:36,079
God cannot God has pure, perfect, simple substance, and therefore

2010
02:23:36,239 --> 02:23:38,559
if he has distinctions that are real, then it must

2011
02:23:38,600 --> 02:23:40,799
mean that he has accidents and accidental qualities, and that

2012
02:23:40,879 --> 02:23:44,479
can't be because that would mean he's composed. So that's

2013
02:23:44,520 --> 02:23:47,520
a category mistake where we don't apply the risk to

2014
02:23:47,639 --> 02:23:50,719
the categories to God himself. Now, when I say that,

2015
02:23:50,920 --> 02:23:53,239
I don't mean that we can't speak of God as

2016
02:23:53,319 --> 02:23:56,040
the cause. Right. If I say God is the first cause,

2017
02:23:56,360 --> 02:23:58,920
that doesn't mean that I believe that he is the

2018
02:24:01,200 --> 02:24:04,639
thought thinking itself of Aristotle. Right, if I say that

2019
02:24:06,680 --> 02:24:10,040
God is logos, that doesn't mean that he is identified

2020
02:24:10,079 --> 02:24:15,040
with Marcus Aurelius's principle that permeates the universe. It's not

2021
02:24:15,120 --> 02:24:18,120
the same thing. So we can't make category mistakes or

2022
02:24:18,879 --> 02:24:22,959
word mistakes, word term mistakes, right, mistaking words for the concepts.

2023
02:24:24,920 --> 02:24:27,479
But what happens in Roman Catholicism is that they assume,

2024
02:24:28,079 --> 02:24:30,399
like with John Damascus, when John Damscus talks about distinction

2025
02:24:30,520 --> 02:24:34,000
between God's energies and God's essence, they say that it

2026
02:24:34,159 --> 02:24:36,879
can't mean what Orthodox say because John Damascus says that

2027
02:24:36,959 --> 02:24:41,840
God has no accidents. Correct. But John Damascus, as you

2028
02:24:41,959 --> 02:24:45,920
just saw Father Florofsky say, does not conceive of there

2029
02:24:46,000 --> 02:24:50,639
being accidents. That the accidents are uncreated energies. Uncreated energies

2030
02:24:50,639 --> 02:24:58,639
are not accidents in God. Slaber Chops, Tim Bucks God,

2031
02:24:58,680 --> 02:25:00,680
bless you day, Thank you, slabtops Lem just appreciate it.

2032
02:25:00,879 --> 02:25:04,040
Bruce Bronson one dollar, Bruce Bronson, one dollar, thank you.

2033
02:25:09,799 --> 02:25:14,520
So once again, Yes, the hypostasis of Christ is composite

2034
02:25:14,639 --> 02:25:17,840
in the sense of now he exists and subsists with

2035
02:25:17,920 --> 02:25:23,680
two natures. The hypostasis itself is from all eternity, and

2036
02:25:23,920 --> 02:25:26,719
it is the pre eternal word of God. He's a person,

2037
02:25:26,760 --> 02:25:29,680
he's a hypostasis from all eternity. The only thing that

2038
02:25:29,760 --> 02:25:34,639
he assumed was a human nature. He remained what he was.

2039
02:25:35,040 --> 02:25:38,600
Both John Damascus and Saint Maximus say in assuming human nature,

2040
02:25:39,479 --> 02:25:42,120
now he is the god man. Now those natures are

2041
02:25:42,200 --> 02:25:46,680
not compounded, they are composite. Composite does not mean compounded

2042
02:25:46,719 --> 02:25:56,040
and confused, You are confused. I'm talking about the psycho

2043
02:25:56,120 --> 02:25:58,600
who keeps following me and gets banned. That's you. I'm

2044
02:25:58,639 --> 02:26:01,760
not going to name him. He's done. We're not interacting

2045
02:26:01,799 --> 02:26:09,760
with him ever again. All right, So the only reason

2046
02:26:09,799 --> 02:26:11,360
he asked that question was to try to trip me

2047
02:26:11,440 --> 02:26:12,920
up so he can try to have some kind of dirt.

2048
02:26:13,040 --> 02:26:15,360
But we've already subtled the matter with that guy. We've

2049
02:26:15,440 --> 02:26:21,639
gone above his head. My work has been blessed now

2050
02:26:21,959 --> 02:26:26,520
by the hierarchs, so it doesn't matter what he says.

2051
02:26:28,399 --> 02:26:32,280
All right. I don't see any more super chats. Do

2052
02:26:32,399 --> 02:26:35,079
we have anybody who wants to debate? Anybody want to

2053
02:26:35,120 --> 02:26:44,200
come on and debate. Also, we covered that composite issue

2054
02:26:44,680 --> 02:26:48,639
again in my chat. It's just a category mistake. They're

2055
02:26:48,639 --> 02:26:52,959
misunderstanding what's composite. Yes, the hypostasis is composite in the

2056
02:26:53,040 --> 02:26:57,280
sense of assuming human nature. Two nature's is what makes

2057
02:26:57,319 --> 02:27:02,159
it composite. Islami Janissary going debate. So we have a

2058
02:27:02,280 --> 02:27:04,520
Muslim and wants to debate. Yeah, we have Muslims debating

2059
02:27:04,520 --> 02:27:07,639
all week in the in the discord. By the way,

2060
02:27:07,639 --> 02:27:12,079
I will be debating Matt Dila Hunty August eighth. So

2061
02:27:14,040 --> 02:27:15,959
if you've not, I'm sure most of you probably know

2062
02:27:16,000 --> 02:27:18,639
who Matt Dila Hunty is, the now well known atheist.

2063
02:27:19,639 --> 02:27:28,120
He did a debate with JBP a while back. It

2064
02:27:28,200 --> 02:27:35,360
was very popular. People are saying, don't bother.

2065
02:27:36,879 --> 02:27:52,639
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2066
02:27:52,719 --> 02:27:55,079
Speaker 1: John Damascus says, there's two senses to which we use

2067
02:27:55,120 --> 02:27:57,680
the word in hypostatize or what referring to when we

2068
02:27:57,680 --> 02:28:00,479
talk about hypothesis, Sometimes we're talking about us, when other

2069
02:28:00,520 --> 02:28:03,959
talking about God. Sometimes we're talking about the whole being,

2070
02:28:04,159 --> 02:28:12,000
and sometimes we're talking about just the hypostasis itself. No,

2071
02:28:12,280 --> 02:28:16,239
Christ as a divine person, his divine, his divinity is impassable.

2072
02:28:16,520 --> 02:28:21,040
So when he was crucified, he underwent death. There's only

2073
02:28:21,120 --> 02:28:24,239
one person, one subject there who is undergoing this action.

2074
02:28:24,840 --> 02:28:28,200
But because he's a divine person. He is impassable, right,

2075
02:28:28,280 --> 02:28:31,280
his divine nature is impassable. John Damascus covers us at

2076
02:28:31,360 --> 02:28:33,319
length at the end of book three and at the

2077
02:28:33,440 --> 02:28:35,120
beginning of book four. So at the end of book

2078
02:28:35,159 --> 02:28:38,000
three he talks about the death and dissent of Christ

2079
02:28:38,120 --> 02:28:41,000
into Hades, his human soul descending into Hades. And in

2080
02:28:41,079 --> 02:28:43,719
the beginning of book four he ends that section and

2081
02:28:43,840 --> 02:28:46,520
he explains what we mean. So the only reason that

2082
02:28:47,239 --> 02:28:50,000
you Islamic apologists are saying that is because you think

2083
02:28:50,120 --> 02:28:53,639
that that Christ is just like kind of one entity.

2084
02:28:54,200 --> 02:28:56,920
We say that Christ always possesses two natures, and that

2085
02:28:57,440 --> 02:29:01,120
when he suffered and died, it was only his human

2086
02:29:01,239 --> 02:29:04,600
nature that suffered and died. Now, the subject who underwent

2087
02:29:04,680 --> 02:29:07,520
that actions is the second person of the godhead, right,

2088
02:29:07,559 --> 02:29:11,120
the only person present for all those actions. Now, I'm

2089
02:29:11,159 --> 02:29:13,840
not dropping the discord link into the chat because there'll

2090
02:29:13,840 --> 02:29:16,239
be a million retards that will pile in there and

2091
02:29:16,520 --> 02:29:21,399
junk it up. Jay Paul says in Timothy that God

2092
02:29:21,440 --> 02:29:23,920
is immortal, but he died a human death. So he yeah,

2093
02:29:24,000 --> 02:29:27,399
this is called dialectics, right. God is immortal, but that's

2094
02:29:27,440 --> 02:29:29,040
why we say he took on a human nature. He

2095
02:29:29,120 --> 02:29:34,200
didn't become a human. He remained divine and he assumed

2096
02:29:34,639 --> 02:29:38,120
human nature. And those natures interpenetrate one another, but they

2097
02:29:38,200 --> 02:29:41,399
never lose their properties. Right, So his humanity really did

2098
02:29:41,559 --> 02:29:46,079
suffer die, but his divinity is impassable. Right, so he

2099
02:29:46,280 --> 02:29:50,680
was never separated from his humanity. As John Davascus says, Look,

2100
02:29:50,879 --> 02:30:00,719
just read the last look, all right, Actually be helpful

2101
02:30:00,760 --> 02:30:03,120
because a lot of people make a mistake on this point.

2102
02:30:04,319 --> 02:30:06,479
This will also help refute that moron. It was just

2103
02:30:06,559 --> 02:30:20,840
in here, all right. So let's go to book three

2104
02:30:21,840 --> 02:30:24,399
and I'm gonna put up the screenshot for you here,

2105
02:30:27,159 --> 02:30:29,319
so this will respond to your question. What we're saying here.

2106
02:30:29,840 --> 02:30:33,479
Let's take the death of Christ as an example. Now,

2107
02:30:33,840 --> 02:30:37,159
we never separate Christ as if we actually in reality

2108
02:30:37,200 --> 02:30:40,120
are dividing him. Okay, he's always the god Man, even

2109
02:30:40,200 --> 02:30:42,719
in his death. He is the god Man for all eternity.

2110
02:30:43,120 --> 02:30:45,200
He will beat the god Man. Right, But there was

2111
02:30:45,360 --> 02:30:48,920
a death that occurred. Now, John Demssus is going to

2112
02:30:48,959 --> 02:30:52,159
make clear that when Christ died in this what he

2113
02:30:52,239 --> 02:30:54,159
calls the appropriation. This is right after this the section

2114
02:30:54,200 --> 02:30:55,760
where he talks about my God, My God, why have

2115
02:30:55,840 --> 02:30:58,559
you forsaken me. The Father did not forsake him in

2116
02:30:58,600 --> 02:31:01,360
the sense of splitting the trendity, because he's a divine person.

2117
02:31:04,120 --> 02:31:10,360
But Christ's death was real, It wasn't a phantasm, it

2118
02:31:10,479 --> 02:31:13,079
wasn't imaginary. Well, how do we make sense of that?

2119
02:31:13,280 --> 02:31:16,079
How can he die? Right? Well, because you're you're thinking

2120
02:31:16,159 --> 02:31:21,280
of Christ as one compound thing, right, one, he's only divine,

2121
02:31:21,680 --> 02:31:27,479
he's not. He's divine and human. So let's read this.

2122
02:31:28,840 --> 02:31:32,799
The Word of God then itself endured all in the flesh. Right,

2123
02:31:32,879 --> 02:31:35,239
So the second person of the Godhead, right, the Word

2124
02:31:35,280 --> 02:31:39,760
of God then endured in it in it's then itself.

2125
02:31:39,840 --> 02:31:41,639
By the way he speaks of the second person of

2126
02:31:41,680 --> 02:31:44,159
the Godhead itself, just like I told that retard, he

2127
02:31:44,239 --> 02:31:47,239
says he doesn't. There it is right there he the

2128
02:31:47,319 --> 02:31:51,000
Word of God itself. Right, the second hypes the second

2129
02:31:51,040 --> 02:31:54,120
person of Godhead, the eternal hypostasis, endured everything in the flesh,

2130
02:31:54,520 --> 02:31:58,280
while his divine nature alone was passionless and remain void

2131
02:31:58,319 --> 02:32:02,079
of passion. Christ has two natures. This is what you

2132
02:32:02,120 --> 02:32:06,200
don't understand. So God didn't die in the sense of

2133
02:32:06,239 --> 02:32:10,239
his divine nature changing. For since the one Christ, who

2134
02:32:10,399 --> 02:32:13,719
is compound of divinity in humanity. Oh oh, by the way,

2135
02:32:13,840 --> 02:32:18,040
did you see that retard? What's he compound of divinity

2136
02:32:18,079 --> 02:32:21,040
in humanity? Right? Two natures compound the very thing that

2137
02:32:21,120 --> 02:32:22,840
you said was an off site. Get out of here,

2138
02:32:22,879 --> 02:32:26,200
you retard, and exists in divinity in humanity. He truly suffers.

2139
02:32:26,959 --> 02:32:31,920
He exists, in exists, his hypostasis exists in humanity and divinity.

2140
02:32:32,159 --> 02:32:36,280
It truly suffered. What truly suffered he did in his humanity,

2141
02:32:37,239 --> 02:32:40,399
in the part which was capable of passion. What part

2142
02:32:40,799 --> 02:32:45,280
was capable of suffering his humanity. I'm not talking to

2143
02:32:45,319 --> 02:32:47,559
the Islamic guy as the retard. I'm talking about the

2144
02:32:47,600 --> 02:32:55,120
guy who's been obsessively tweeting or not tweeting following me

2145
02:32:55,239 --> 02:32:57,200
that I had to go to the hierarchs about.

2146
02:33:00,600 --> 02:33:00,639
Speaker 2: This.

2147
02:33:01,120 --> 02:33:05,280
Speaker 1: Right here, er Hutson as well. By the way, he's

2148
02:33:05,319 --> 02:33:07,879
so stupid he thinks that talking about the different natures

2149
02:33:08,040 --> 02:33:11,479
after the incarnation divides Christ, when this whole section is

2150
02:33:11,520 --> 02:33:15,680
about the different natures and what was impossible and what suffered.

2151
02:33:16,040 --> 02:33:21,760
This guy's a clown. But the only part that could

2152
02:33:21,799 --> 02:33:26,840
suffer mister Muslim was the humanity. Right now, he doesn't

2153
02:33:26,840 --> 02:33:30,440
have parts in the sense of being a divine person. Right,

2154
02:33:30,719 --> 02:33:33,040
he's the second person of Godhead from all eternity. He

2155
02:33:33,120 --> 02:33:36,639
assumes human nature, and he does suffer, but he suffers

2156
02:33:36,719 --> 02:33:40,159
in his humanity, in the part of him that could suffer. Right,

2157
02:33:40,319 --> 02:33:42,959
So Christ himself does not have parts. But when he

2158
02:33:43,040 --> 02:33:47,719
assumed human nature, he became composite, compound of divinity and humanity.

2159
02:33:47,840 --> 02:33:53,760
Compound of divinity in humanity. That's not monophysite retard for

2160
02:33:53,879 --> 02:33:57,200
the soul. Indeed, since it is capable of passion, shares

2161
02:33:57,239 --> 02:33:59,559
in the pain of suffering of a bodily cut, though

2162
02:33:59,600 --> 02:34:01,799
it is not cut, but only the body. But the

2163
02:34:01,879 --> 02:34:04,520
divine part, which is void of passion, does not share

2164
02:34:04,559 --> 02:34:07,200
in the suffering of the body. Christ's divinity is impassable.

2165
02:34:07,760 --> 02:34:10,479
His divinity was not changed, didn't suffer in alteration, It

2166
02:34:10,559 --> 02:34:14,200
didn't die. Observe. Further, we say that when we say

2167
02:34:14,319 --> 02:34:18,600
God suffered in the flesh, this is called communicastio idiomatum.

2168
02:34:19,000 --> 02:34:21,120
This comes from Saint Cyril, and it just means that

2169
02:34:21,479 --> 02:34:24,200
we can say one thing about one nature, but we

2170
02:34:24,239 --> 02:34:26,559
can apply it to the whole Christ. That's what commune

2171
02:34:26,600 --> 02:34:29,840
castio ideomotum means. But we never say that his divinity

2172
02:34:29,840 --> 02:34:32,600
suffered in the flesh, or that God suffered through the flesh.

2173
02:34:33,079 --> 02:34:35,159
For if when the sun is shining upon a tree,

2174
02:34:35,239 --> 02:34:37,440
the act should clean the tree, and nevertheless the sun

2175
02:34:37,559 --> 02:34:40,319
remains uncleft and void of passion. Much more will the

2176
02:34:40,399 --> 02:34:44,000
passionless divinity of the word united in subsistence to the flesh.

2177
02:34:44,079 --> 02:34:49,040
Subsistence here just means person, the one, the divinity of

2178
02:34:49,120 --> 02:34:52,920
the word, united in the subsistence, in his subsistence to

2179
02:34:53,040 --> 02:34:55,680
the flesh. Right, his divine person is united to the flesh.

2180
02:34:56,159 --> 02:34:58,959
That is his human humanity is human nature. It remained

2181
02:34:59,040 --> 02:35:02,639
void of passion when the body undergoes passion. And should

2182
02:35:02,719 --> 02:35:06,280
any one poor water over flaming steel, it is that

2183
02:35:06,399 --> 02:35:09,159
which naturally suffers by the water, I mean the fire

2184
02:35:09,600 --> 02:35:12,719
that is quenched, But the steel remains untouched, for it

2185
02:35:12,840 --> 02:35:14,399
is not the nature still to be destroyed by water.

2186
02:35:14,520 --> 02:35:17,719
Much more than when the flesh suffered, did his only

2187
02:35:17,959 --> 02:35:23,799
passionless divinity escape all passion, although abiding inseparably from it.

2188
02:35:24,600 --> 02:35:28,360
For one must not take the examples too absolutely and strictly. Indeed,

2189
02:35:28,520 --> 02:35:30,600
in the examples one must consider both what it is

2190
02:35:30,680 --> 02:35:32,680
like is unlike. So he's just saying these are analogies

2191
02:35:32,719 --> 02:35:36,840
with the steel and water and fire, heat whatever, for

2192
02:35:36,920 --> 02:35:39,559
if they weren't like in all respects, they would be identities,

2193
02:35:39,680 --> 02:35:42,280
not examples. Then he goes on to say concerning the

2194
02:35:42,319 --> 02:35:45,000
divinity of the Lord, how it remained inseparable from the

2195
02:35:45,120 --> 02:35:49,120
soul and the body at Christ's death, and that his

2196
02:35:49,200 --> 02:35:51,520
subsistence continue to be one. This is also going to

2197
02:35:51,799 --> 02:35:59,959
refute that retard even further our psychopath, not the Muslim guy,

2198
02:36:00,319 --> 02:36:10,200
the other guy. So continuing, he says, since our Lord

2199
02:36:10,280 --> 02:36:14,959
Jesus Christ was without sin, he committed no sin. A

2200
02:36:15,000 --> 02:36:18,360
scripture says, right, he was not subject to death, since

2201
02:36:18,440 --> 02:36:20,920
death came into the world through sin. There had another

2202
02:36:21,280 --> 02:36:23,360
so called true Orthodox clown trying to say I was

2203
02:36:23,360 --> 02:36:25,879
a heretic because I said he assumed the nature that

2204
02:36:25,959 --> 02:36:28,959
Adam had. That's what John Damascus says right here, he

2205
02:36:29,120 --> 02:36:31,600
was not subject to death, right, But he willingly took

2206
02:36:31,719 --> 02:36:36,319
on our mortal condition. But not because he inherited original

2207
02:36:36,399 --> 02:36:40,159
or ancestral sin. He took on himself death on our behalf.

2208
02:36:40,440 --> 02:36:42,399
You see, he will too, and he made himself an

2209
02:36:42,399 --> 02:36:45,159
offering to the Father for our sakes, for we sinned

2210
02:36:45,159 --> 02:36:47,760
against him, and it was meet that he should receive

2211
02:36:48,040 --> 02:36:50,879
the ransom for us, and that we should thus be

2212
02:36:50,959 --> 02:36:53,559
delivered from the combination. God forbid that the blood of

2213
02:36:53,600 --> 02:36:56,159
the Lord should have been offered to the tyrant. Right,

2214
02:36:56,239 --> 02:36:58,239
So he's saying that it wasn't an offering to Satan.

2215
02:36:59,479 --> 02:37:02,959
Wherefore death approaches and swallowing up the body, talking about

2216
02:37:03,040 --> 02:37:08,360
Christ's body as bait. Death is transfixed on the hook

2217
02:37:08,559 --> 02:37:11,040
or excuse me, the Christ's body, he's saying, is debate.

2218
02:37:12,520 --> 02:37:14,840
The bait is transfixed on the hook of divinity. Right.

2219
02:37:14,920 --> 02:37:17,280
So the it's almost like the if you think about

2220
02:37:17,280 --> 02:37:21,840
the matrix, when when Neo like goes into agent Smith

2221
02:37:21,920 --> 02:37:24,360
or whatever and it destroys Agent Smith. I mean, that's

2222
02:37:24,399 --> 02:37:26,200
a dumb analogy, but I don't know. This is what

2223
02:37:26,360 --> 02:37:29,719
pops in my head, Like when when when Satan took

2224
02:37:30,280 --> 02:37:32,280
this into his realm, into the realm of death, so

2225
02:37:32,399 --> 02:37:36,879
to speak, this sinless and life giving body, uh, is

2226
02:37:37,000 --> 02:37:41,719
the bait, and then this is the means by which

2227
02:37:41,760 --> 02:37:44,920
Satan is destroyed. He's saying, after tasting the sinless and

2228
02:37:44,959 --> 02:37:47,680
lifegiving body, it perishes and brings up again all who

2229
02:37:47,799 --> 02:37:51,120
died of old. He swallowed up speeding of death for

2230
02:37:51,280 --> 02:37:54,319
just as darkness disappears in the introduction of light. So death,

2231
02:37:55,440 --> 02:37:59,040
so is death repulsed before the assault of life and

2232
02:37:59,159 --> 02:38:03,479
brings life to all, but death to the destroyer. Wherefore,

2233
02:38:03,520 --> 02:38:07,360
although he died as man and his holy spirit was

2234
02:38:07,440 --> 02:38:12,159
severed from his immaculate body, yet his divinity remained inseparable

2235
02:38:12,159 --> 02:38:16,120
from both. See there, I mean, from his soul and

2236
02:38:16,159 --> 02:38:18,920
his body. So even though his one hypostasis was not

2237
02:38:19,040 --> 02:38:21,840
divided into two, you see, he remains to be one

2238
02:38:22,440 --> 02:38:25,520
hypostasis when his death, when the death occurs, for the

2239
02:38:25,559 --> 02:38:28,600
body and soul receives simultaneous in the beginning, there being

2240
02:38:28,760 --> 02:38:33,159
the body and the soul, they have one hypostasis, the

2241
02:38:33,239 --> 02:38:36,959
word eternal word. He's a divine person. And although they

2242
02:38:37,000 --> 02:38:39,040
were separated from one another, the body and soul, that

2243
02:38:39,200 --> 02:38:46,559
is by death, you see. And wait, let's see, So

2244
02:38:47,319 --> 02:38:50,239
the one hypostasis, that's what subsistence means here of the

2245
02:38:50,280 --> 02:38:53,040
word alike is the subsistence of the word and of

2246
02:38:53,079 --> 02:38:54,920
the soul and body. Right, So, in other words, there's

2247
02:38:54,920 --> 02:38:57,479
only one person present, the divine person and the soul

2248
02:38:57,600 --> 02:39:01,760
and body of the humanity. The only person that they

2249
02:39:01,920 --> 02:39:04,159
have is the person of the word. For no time

2250
02:39:04,239 --> 02:39:07,000
had either the soul or the body, a separate subsistence

2251
02:39:07,079 --> 02:39:09,799
of their own. That would be Nestorianism, different from that

2252
02:39:09,920 --> 02:39:11,799
of the Word. And the subsistence of the Word is

2253
02:39:11,920 --> 02:39:16,120
forever one, and at no time too, you see, so

2254
02:39:16,280 --> 02:39:19,319
that the subsistence of Christ is always one. That means

2255
02:39:19,360 --> 02:39:22,920
the subsistence the hypostasis of Christ is never composite. It

2256
02:39:23,040 --> 02:39:26,479
is always one. It is composite in the sense of

2257
02:39:26,600 --> 02:39:29,079
having two natures. It is not composite in the sense

2258
02:39:29,159 --> 02:39:32,120
of undergoing an alteration and change. It is always one.

2259
02:39:33,000 --> 02:39:37,600
Subsistence means person. For although the soul was separated from

2260
02:39:37,600 --> 02:39:41,959
the body topically, yet hypostatically, they were united through the Word. So,

2261
02:39:42,040 --> 02:39:45,600
in other words, even when Christ died and his soul descended,

2262
02:39:46,040 --> 02:39:50,000
the only person present as his soul descends into Hades

2263
02:39:50,200 --> 02:39:53,520
is the divine person of the Word. They were always

2264
02:39:53,639 --> 02:39:58,520
hypostatically united in the person of the Word. Now let's

2265
02:39:58,559 --> 02:40:06,600
look at the death and destruction in the descent into Hades.

2266
02:40:09,239 --> 02:40:11,120
This is a great question, by the way, because this

2267
02:40:11,239 --> 02:40:13,799
trips up all the Protestants. Protestants are all tripped up

2268
02:40:13,840 --> 02:40:15,440
on this, and they fall into a bunch of a

2269
02:40:15,479 --> 02:40:21,000
whole bunch of heresies on this one. So let's look

2270
02:40:21,000 --> 02:40:31,479
at this last section. Where's my screenshot? Make sure I

2271
02:40:31,520 --> 02:40:38,079
got the right screenshot here? Yeah, here we go. Concerning

2272
02:40:38,159 --> 02:40:41,719
corruption and destruction, the corruption has two meanings. It signifies

2273
02:40:41,719 --> 02:40:44,520
at times all human sufferings such as hunger, thirst, weakness,

2274
02:40:44,719 --> 02:40:48,120
nail's death, that has separation soul and body, so forth.

2275
02:40:48,159 --> 02:40:49,680
In this sense, we may say that the Lord's body

2276
02:40:49,719 --> 02:40:53,159
was subject to corruption, for he voluntarily accepted those things.

2277
02:40:53,200 --> 02:40:55,920
In other words, he was not subject to those things naturally.

2278
02:40:56,719 --> 02:40:59,959
He did not accept ancestral sin. He did not accept

2279
02:41:00,000 --> 02:41:02,200
original sin. Whatever terms you want to use. We don't

2280
02:41:02,239 --> 02:41:04,959
teach that. Maximus is very clear in at the lassium

2281
02:41:05,000 --> 02:41:07,879
twenty one, and that's why he has no nomic will.

2282
02:41:08,479 --> 02:41:11,639
But corruption means also the complete resolution of the body.

2283
02:41:11,639 --> 02:41:13,840
In other words, his body didn't decompose, is what we

2284
02:41:13,920 --> 02:41:17,120
were saying. Body Lord did not experience this form of corruption.

2285
02:41:17,239 --> 02:41:19,159
As David says, he will not leave my soul in

2286
02:41:19,200 --> 02:41:21,559
hades hell, nor will you allow your holy one to

2287
02:41:21,559 --> 02:41:25,399
see coruption. Wherefore he talks about two heretics, Julianus and

2288
02:41:25,440 --> 02:41:28,639
Guyanas thought that Christ's body was incorruptible in the sense

2289
02:41:28,760 --> 02:41:31,600
in the first sense, that he didn't experience hunger thirst

2290
02:41:32,799 --> 02:41:36,239
before his resurrection, which is absurd, for if he were incorruptible,

2291
02:41:36,680 --> 02:41:39,680
it was not really the same essence as us. In

2292
02:41:39,680 --> 02:41:42,399
other words, he didn't really have full humanity. The gospels

2293
02:41:42,440 --> 02:41:44,159
tell us that this happened, that he was hungry, he

2294
02:41:44,280 --> 02:41:47,879
was thirsty, nails, there was wound in his side. But

2295
02:41:49,600 --> 02:41:52,719
if they only apparently happened, then the crucifixion wasn't real.

2296
02:41:52,760 --> 02:41:54,159
It was a sham. Right, we don't believe that. So

2297
02:41:54,200 --> 02:41:56,600
he's just talking about two errors that we don't accept.

2298
02:41:57,040 --> 02:41:58,920
The second maning of the word corruption, we confess that

2299
02:41:58,920 --> 02:42:02,520
the Lord's body is incorrupt, that is indestructible, for such

2300
02:42:02,559 --> 02:42:05,879
as the tradition of the church. Indeed, after the resurrection

2301
02:42:06,000 --> 02:42:07,280
of the Savior from the dead, we know that our

2302
02:42:07,319 --> 02:42:09,319
Lord's body is incryptible, even from the first sense of

2303
02:42:09,319 --> 02:42:11,639
the word. For in other words, after the resurrection, he

2304
02:42:11,719 --> 02:42:16,680
doesn't suffer hunger, thirst, weary, weariness, et cetera. For he

2305
02:42:16,799 --> 02:42:20,360
bestowed those gifts upon his resurrected body. That's so he

2306
02:42:20,479 --> 02:42:28,040
deified it. Right, Descruption must put on incruption Concerning the

2307
02:42:28,040 --> 02:42:31,639
descent into hades, the soul Christ soul when it was deified,

2308
02:42:31,840 --> 02:42:35,399
descended into hades in order to that, just as the

2309
02:42:35,440 --> 02:42:38,000
son of righteousness Malchi for two rose from those upon

2310
02:42:38,040 --> 02:42:41,200
the earth, so likewise he might bring to light those

2311
02:42:41,200 --> 02:42:45,040
who sit under the those in hades in darkness and

2312
02:42:45,120 --> 02:42:46,840
the shadow of death as a nine two, in order that,

2313
02:42:46,959 --> 02:42:49,079
just as he brought the message of peace to those

2314
02:42:49,200 --> 02:42:52,559
upon the earth and release of those prisoners, he became

2315
02:42:53,239 --> 02:42:55,959
to those who believe the author of relazing salvation. So,

2316
02:42:56,000 --> 02:42:58,040
in other words, the gospel was even preached to the dead,

2317
02:42:58,079 --> 02:43:00,879
as Peter says, so that he might become the same

2318
02:43:01,079 --> 02:43:04,200
lord to those in hades. Every need will bow to him,

2319
02:43:04,440 --> 02:43:06,399
those in heaven, those in the earth, and those under

2320
02:43:06,399 --> 02:43:10,040
the earth Philippians to ten. And thus, after he had

2321
02:43:10,079 --> 02:43:13,600
freed those from who'd been bound for the ages hades, straightways,

2322
02:43:13,639 --> 02:43:15,799
here rose again from the dead, showing us the way

2323
02:43:15,840 --> 02:43:18,799
of resurrection. So we do not say that God in

2324
02:43:18,879 --> 02:43:22,399
his divinity suffered and died. That is a mistake in

2325
02:43:22,520 --> 02:43:31,000
terms of the communicastio idiomatum. All right, Uh, let's see,

2326
02:43:31,000 --> 02:43:35,280
I don't think there's anything else going on here. We've

2327
02:43:35,319 --> 02:43:38,319
got one more super chat. John Kalikas ten bucks our

2328
02:43:38,440 --> 02:43:42,520
graces divine help towards salvation for rational creatures. Sure, I

2329
02:43:42,600 --> 02:43:46,639
mean they're not just helps, but they're salvation itself. If so,

2330
02:43:46,760 --> 02:43:49,520
how do they exist before all creation, including creatures? They

2331
02:43:49,559 --> 02:43:53,120
are intended to help? Well, they're not just helps. I mean,

2332
02:43:53,159 --> 02:43:55,799
that's kind of like the Roman Catholic idea of like

2333
02:43:55,920 --> 02:43:59,399
God giving you little spankings and power boosts or something.

2334
02:43:59,440 --> 02:44:02,760
That's not the Orthodox conception. The Orthodox conception is that

2335
02:44:03,559 --> 02:44:06,879
grace is the uncreated life of God and glory of

2336
02:44:06,879 --> 02:44:11,959
God himself. So I would say to you, John Kleikus,

2337
02:44:12,079 --> 02:44:15,399
just read John seventeen. That's one of the clearest passages

2338
02:44:15,440 --> 02:44:19,360
because Jesus says that the same glory that he possessed

2339
02:44:19,360 --> 02:44:21,399
with the Father and the Spirit before the foundation of

2340
02:44:21,440 --> 02:44:25,120
the world, which is obviously an eternal, uncreated glory, is

2341
02:44:25,200 --> 02:44:27,719
the very thing that he intends to give to the saints.

2342
02:44:28,840 --> 02:44:30,920
So from John seventeen one all the way down to

2343
02:44:31,000 --> 02:44:33,719
verse twenty in his high priestly prayer, he makes that

2344
02:44:34,040 --> 02:44:38,319
very clear. So anyway, all right, good talk to you guys.

2345
02:44:38,680 --> 02:44:44,079
If you want to read more on this. Again, everything

2346
02:44:44,120 --> 02:44:46,840
that I'm saying, it's all in defense of the Orthodox faith.

2347
02:44:46,920 --> 02:44:49,600
Especially Book three. Okay. So Book three is where it

2348
02:44:49,680 --> 02:44:52,680
really talks about Christology and where he really applies the

2349
02:44:52,760 --> 02:44:56,120
uncreated energies to Christology. It's where he goes into what

2350
02:44:56,200 --> 02:44:58,239
the new theadric energy is. It's what he goes where

2351
02:44:58,280 --> 02:45:02,440
he goes into in what sense Christ is composite and

2352
02:45:02,520 --> 02:45:06,360
in what sense he's not. Okay, it's all in book three.

2353
02:45:06,920 --> 02:45:09,959
And this is the second time I've read it in

2354
02:45:10,079 --> 02:45:13,239
ten years. I just did an entire lecture series through

2355
02:45:13,239 --> 02:45:16,479
the whole book. I know what I'm talking about. I'm

2356
02:45:16,520 --> 02:45:20,440
not making this up. I'm not inventing heresies. To those

2357
02:45:20,479 --> 02:45:24,040
who are so called Orthodox, and then to those who

2358
02:45:24,120 --> 02:45:28,239
are Roman Catholics, we want to stress that we are

2359
02:45:29,280 --> 02:45:34,920
in coherent consistence with the Counsels and the Fathers, and

2360
02:45:34,959 --> 02:45:38,479
you were not, and that's why you have to become Orthodox.

2361
02:45:39,879 --> 02:45:44,040
And so those who are interested in the website first

2362
02:45:44,079 --> 02:45:47,239
part two with Saint Maximus, you can again, I'll put

2363
02:45:47,239 --> 02:45:49,319
the link again here for you. You can join the

2364
02:45:49,399 --> 02:45:52,319
website or you can buy the book at the shop

2365
02:45:52,360 --> 02:45:58,000
at the website. So let's do that real quick and again.

2366
02:45:58,079 --> 02:46:01,719
August eighth, Matt Dilla Honey all to be debating Matt.

2367
02:46:02,959 --> 02:46:05,239
That should be an interesting debate. There is to subscribe

2368
02:46:05,280 --> 02:46:09,120
to the site and if you would like to buy

2369
02:46:09,200 --> 02:46:12,760
the books, the sign copies, Philosophy and film all your

2370
02:46:12,799 --> 02:46:18,200
favorite movies. You can purchase sign copies of the book here.

2371
02:46:20,639 --> 02:46:28,120
Cool beans, dude. All right, God bless you guys, have

2372
02:46:28,159 --> 02:46:32,280
a good night, and I will talk to you next

2373
02:46:32,319 --> 02:46:35,600
time in Part two with Saint Maximus and the Logi

2374
02:46:35,760 --> 02:46:37,239
that will be up in the next day or two.