Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome to the show. A quick note
Speaker 1: before we start. The site that we're going to be
Speaker 1: talking about is called slot Slayers plural slotslayers dot com,
Speaker 1: and we just wanted to make that clear because there
Speaker 1: is another site with a similar name, but not this one. Also,
Speaker 1: you can always reach me at life is a gamble
Speaker 1: pod at gmail dot com, or you can find me
Speaker 1: on Twitter at RWM one. Now here's the show.
Speaker 2: Good afternoon.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Gambling with an Edge.
Speaker 2: Now Here are your hosts, Bob Dancer and Richard Munchkin.
Speaker 2: Good afternoon, Welcome to Gambling with an Edge.
Speaker 1: I'm Bob Dancer and I'm Richard Munchkin.
Speaker 2: Today, our guest is Ben Rosenthal, who wrote the book
Speaker 2: Breaking the Slot Code and open the website slot slayer
Speaker 2: dot com. The purpose of the booking website is to
Speaker 2: teach you to be an advantage slot player, a company.
Speaker 2: Ben today is his publisher and frequent Gambling with an
Speaker 2: Edge guest Anthony Curtis. Gentlemen, welcome to Gambling with an Age.
Speaker 2: Thanks having yep, man, when did you begin gambling? And
Speaker 2: where was that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're talking sickly flots obviously, right, Well, we're
Speaker 3: going to get to slots, but if you were gambling
Speaker 3: before that, we want to know that too. Oh sure, yeah,
Speaker 3: So since since middle school some sixth straight, I've been
Speaker 3: playing poker. That was my entry into gambling, and that
Speaker 3: kind of coincided with the whole Chris Moneymaker winning the
Speaker 3: main event in three and then the boom of the
Speaker 3: online uh poker. So that was kind of my entryway
Speaker 3: to gambling.
Speaker 1: And when did you get to slots?
Speaker 3: Slott was twenty nineteen was when my body was starting
Speaker 3: to show me the advantage. I mean, advantage flots had
Speaker 3: been around before then, but that was when I really
Speaker 3: started getting into them.
Speaker 2: Okay, most people who understand about advantage slots try to
Speaker 2: keep it secret to keep as many people out of
Speaker 2: it as possible. How did you decide to write this book?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean that was definitely when in the early days,
Speaker 3: kind of the wild weft days of if they had flots,
Speaker 3: it was a really frowned upon thing to tell people
Speaker 3: about them, because you.
Speaker 5: Just created work competition for yourself.
Speaker 3: These days, it's not as big a secret, so I
Speaker 3: felt I didn't feel as bad publishing a book and
Speaker 3: having a website go up.
Speaker 4: Yeah, let me jump let me let me jump in
Speaker 4: here on that real quick too. You know, when we
Speaker 4: published a Huntington Press, we know a lot of things
Speaker 4: we don't publish, and you know, we've known about this
Speaker 4: for quite a while. We waited and waited until enough
Speaker 4: information was out there that we didn't feel we were
Speaker 4: breaking any codes, not so to speak, by doing this.
Speaker 4: And Ben had actually put this book out. I was
Speaker 4: himself when we came across and said, well, this is
Speaker 4: the best thing we've seen, and we think we can
Speaker 4: make it better, and we think we can make it.
Speaker 4: So that's why we That's why we did it. You know,
Speaker 4: we really held up quite a while after.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I And there certainly has been many other site,
Speaker 1: many half a dozen at least sites talking about this
Speaker 1: for the last number of years. But Ben, were you
Speaker 1: playing profession for a living or was this like a
Speaker 1: part time gig for you?
Speaker 2: Bob?
Speaker 5: Initially it was and it still is.
Speaker 3: I got a bitch and poker my two main sources
Speaker 3: of income. And prior to that I did have a
Speaker 3: real job because I had a sports website. But I've
Speaker 3: been doing this now poker and slots for the last
Speaker 3: four years. Pretty much full.
Speaker 1: Time, and so you were not I mean, what was
Speaker 1: what was the ben of writing the book? What I mean,
Speaker 1: what was the upside?
Speaker 5: Well, I mean to make some money, I guess, but
Speaker 5: I didn't really, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I've been thinking about it for a while. I know
Speaker 3: there had been other content out there, machine Pro Club
Speaker 3: being the big one, some patreons which you sort of
Speaker 3: reference with the different sites out there. So I was like,
Speaker 3: let me see if I could do it, do it
Speaker 3: my way to do it better maybe, So that was
Speaker 3: kind of the reason for doing it.
Speaker 1: And are you still playing full time?
Speaker 4: That's choker, Yes.
Speaker 2: So how is your product different to what they have
Speaker 2: at Machine Pro Club?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, see I don't have a membership to Machine
Speaker 3: Pro Club, but I've definitely seen enough of the free
Speaker 3: content out there, and I try to simplify mine as
Speaker 3: much as possible to an average person who might not
Speaker 3: be doing slots nearly as the extent I am. So
Speaker 3: I really tried to with videos, which is a thing
Speaker 3: that Machine Pro Club doesn't really incorporate too much, if
Speaker 3: at all. So I have a video breakdown for all
Speaker 3: these different games I cover, which is at this point
Speaker 3: over two hundred different slots, and like I said, I
Speaker 3: really just try to break it down. ABC is as
Speaker 3: simple as possible, so I can have my mom going
Speaker 3: to the casino and she'd have a chance of understanding
Speaker 3: the stuff.
Speaker 4: Well, when we when we considered that we might open
Speaker 4: the website, we subscribe, by we, I mean Huntington Press,
Speaker 4: LA's biggest advis are here. We subscribe to all of them,
Speaker 4: and we took a look at them and we said, look,
Speaker 4: if we can't do this better, we're not going.
Speaker 2: To do it.
Speaker 4: And like Ben said, they were out there in front
Speaker 4: of us, but they it's complicated and ours is basically
Speaker 4: all of our efforts were made towards dumbing it down,
Speaker 4: so you know, dumbing it down as much as we
Speaker 4: could so as many people could understand. But the main thing,
Speaker 4: the thing that tipped me on it was the videos.
Speaker 4: Like none of these places had videos. I mean every
Speaker 4: one of ours, every one of our games discussed, has
Speaker 4: a video with Ben doing the voiceover and explaining what's
Speaker 4: going on. And I mean you can read as many
Speaker 4: books as you want and look at things on the net,
Speaker 4: but there's nothing like seeing it in action.
Speaker 3: So that was I will I will say there is
Speaker 3: there is a newer Patreon Death Later or gaming. He
Speaker 3: does do a lot of videos, but that's a newer
Speaker 3: within the last year or so, and he doesn't have
Speaker 3: that many games yet. But I don't want to completely
Speaker 3: discount him. He has some good stuff as well.
Speaker 1: So I'm sure what people are thinking is how much
Speaker 1: is the site, how much is the subscription to the site,
Speaker 1: and how does that compare to the other sites that
Speaker 1: offer this.
Speaker 4: Well, we looked I'll talk about that because I was
Speaker 4: in charge of pricing, and we looked at all the others,
Speaker 4: and I actually came with, you know, my first he
Speaker 4: was come with a higher number. I'll explain what our
Speaker 4: numbers are in a minute. And I got talked out
Speaker 4: of it by Ben and others saying, look, you know,
Speaker 4: let's let's make it. Let's make it a little bit
Speaker 4: more accessible to the masses. So our prices actually come
Speaker 4: down are a little bit lower, not by a heck
Speaker 4: of a lot, but a little bit lower than the
Speaker 4: other major ones out there. We have three pricing tiers.
Speaker 4: One is thirty bucks a month, and so that you
Speaker 4: can just go month to month. It's recurring. What you
Speaker 4: get in it recurs until you stop at thirty bucks
Speaker 4: a month, so that's three you know, that's three sixty
Speaker 4: a year. If you want to go in for a
Speaker 4: full year, we do it seventies, so you get three
Speaker 4: months free and then we have a third which is
Speaker 4: one hundred dollars for a year, and that comes with
Speaker 4: everything but the videos. And you would go, whyou anybody
Speaker 4: do that? Well, we've got some things on there. You
Speaker 4: know what we go what do we call that? The
Speaker 4: instant strategies or condensed strategies?
Speaker 2: Correct, right, yep.
Speaker 4: And a lot of people like these condensed strategies we
Speaker 4: have and they're being added all the time. And some
Speaker 4: people go, I don't need to see the video. I
Speaker 4: already know how to play these, but I like hearing
Speaker 4: about these new games. So that's one hundred a year.
Speaker 4: The other thing we have is the uh semester words.
Speaker 4: And you know, I think that all of these places
Speaker 4: have message boards and that's a terrific collaborative thing. Bends
Speaker 4: on them, like religiously, I'm on there from time to time.
Speaker 4: Others are are, you know, putting their two cents in.
Speaker 4: And that's the whole package there, along with you know,
Speaker 4: some some blogs and things like that.
Speaker 1: And so when these new games come out, then are
Speaker 1: you a numbers guy or how do you get your
Speaker 1: numbers for what you think is the right place to play?
Speaker 3: Sure, well, when a when a new game comes out
Speaker 3: and I've never played it before, I can't post about it.
Speaker 3: I need to play it a good amount. I have
Speaker 3: some friends who do this professionally as well. I bounce
Speaker 3: numbers off and we kind of come up with what
Speaker 3: we think ballpark, what we think the numbers might be,
Speaker 3: and then with more of a sample, then I feel
Speaker 3: more comfortable providing some some uh some numbers on the site.
Speaker 3: But I don't when a new game comes out. I'm
Speaker 3: not automatically like, okay, I got to put this on
Speaker 3: the side. I needs to do some definitely a lot
Speaker 3: of trial and error first.
Speaker 4: I think you guys know this too, you know, Bob
Speaker 4: and Richard. These numbers get massaged as we go, you know,
Speaker 4: I mean, you talk to other people. The only way
Speaker 4: to really know is to have the par sheets and
Speaker 4: you know the information that you really can't get to.
Speaker 4: So this is the way it's got to be done.
Speaker 4: But it's a lot of collaborative work with people, bring
Speaker 4: in information. Go. Yeah, this is where we think it is,
Speaker 4: and then on the website it gets adjusted through conversation,
Speaker 4: and you know, we update the reviews and so forth
Speaker 4: as we get better at it. Any different game as
Speaker 4: it comes out, is what I mean. Sure, So our
Speaker 4: mutual friend Max Rubin, you know, his take on all
Speaker 4: this is that the casinos are known to overreact to things.
Speaker 4: And you know, a lot of.
Speaker 1: These sites, I don't think the casinos are even aware
Speaker 1: of them, or they discount them because they're too small
Speaker 1: or whatever. But coming from Huntington Press, I think you
Speaker 1: have a much bigger profile. Are you concerned at all
Speaker 1: about the casinos overreacting to this?
Speaker 4: Go ahead, mend.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it could happen. If I'm being honest,
Speaker 3: I think it could happen. I don't think it would
Speaker 3: just be because of this. I mean, I think casinos
Speaker 3: are definitely any casino is going to be aware of
Speaker 3: advantage playt this point, even if they're not checking some
Speaker 3: small Patreon website, there's enough people doing it that it's
Speaker 3: on their radar. This maybe is this the tipping point.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but yeah, it's definitely on my mind.
Speaker 3: When I was doing this. In some of the wording,
Speaker 3: I try not to be as as aggressive as maybe
Speaker 3: I could be, but I try to.
Speaker 2: I try to.
Speaker 5: I do think about that. It is something I'm thinking about.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, Ben and I had a lot of
Speaker 4: discussions about this about what, you know, what should we
Speaker 4: say and what should we not say? What are the
Speaker 4: casinos going to do? You know, there comes to points
Speaker 4: where the information is out there and you know, we
Speaker 4: know they know about it wherever. You know, I said
Speaker 4: this earlier in the show. We're not giving anything up.
Speaker 4: But think back to black Check when card counting started,
Speaker 4: did everybody say, oh, we can't write about card counting
Speaker 4: because you know, then the casinos will do something. You know,
Speaker 4: what what are they going to do there? You know,
Speaker 4: I just wrote this in the lsbgess Advisor. The current issue.
Speaker 4: They're in a bit of a quandary because they make
Speaker 4: a lot of money on these games. These variable state
Speaker 4: games are fun, they're fun to play. The general public
Speaker 4: loves to play them. The casinos make their money no
Speaker 4: matter who hits the jackpot, they make the same amount
Speaker 4: of money. What they don't like is it anders players
Speaker 4: hitting the jackpot because they figure they're going to walk
Speaker 4: out with the money, which a lot of them do,
Speaker 4: and a lot of them don't. A lot of them
Speaker 4: have leaks and they go right to something else, but
Speaker 4: a number of them will. So that's what they're concerned about.
Speaker 4: Are they going to bite their own heads off and
Speaker 4: take these games out because they don't want certain winners?
Speaker 4: More likely they're going to react by ejecting people, no
Speaker 4: mailing people, taking countermeasures like that. I don't think they're
Speaker 4: going to take out the games. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've been saying for years that, like nothing lasts forever,
Speaker 1: you know, this was going to happen eventually, and it did,
Speaker 1: and like and just like blackjack, you know, everything changes everything,
Speaker 1: it always changes, and the good players are going to
Speaker 1: adapt and still find a way to make money and
Speaker 1: other people maybe move on, which may not be a
Speaker 1: bad thing because it means less competition.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, Anthony, that's a good point. I meant
Speaker 3: to bring up a lot of these guys who are
Speaker 3: advantage players. There's you know, there's levels to this kind
Speaker 3: of thing. Some of these guys they'll spew their money
Speaker 3: elsewhere in the casino. They'll play crabs, they'll play they'll
Speaker 3: play blackjack poorly, They'll do all sorts of stuff. So
Speaker 3: a lot of these guys, even if they might know
Speaker 3: how to beat some of these machines, they don't know
Speaker 3: how to beat.
Speaker 4: All of them.
Speaker 5: They don't have the right numbers.
Speaker 3: A lot of times they know just enough to kind
Speaker 3: of spoil a play, but they don't have the perfect numbers,
Speaker 3: and they end up giving a lot of their money
Speaker 3: or all of it back to the casino anyway. And
Speaker 3: casinos are aware of this too, So, yeah, there's certain
Speaker 3: advantage players who don't have any leaks like that, But
Speaker 3: a lot of them do well.
Speaker 4: You don't play them in bed numbers. A lot of
Speaker 4: people they'll go, oh, it's close enough, I'm going to
Speaker 4: do it. You know, clost enough is not good enough,
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's got to be. It's gotta be
Speaker 4: writers close to writer as you can get it well.
Speaker 1: Also, a lot of the recreational players have learned that, gee,
Speaker 1: it's better to take the machine when it's in a
Speaker 1: higher number because they see people checking and things like that.
Speaker 1: They don't know what the number is, but you know,
Speaker 1: they're gonna take a higher number rather than a lower number.
Speaker 1: But if they can't find a positive game, they're still
Speaker 1: gonna play, you know, And and I see that happen
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 5: Were percent. I agree with you that every every day
Speaker 5: I see that.
Speaker 3: I can see people who have half a clue or
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, anyone would know ten's better than nine.
Speaker 3: But I mean, if they don't find their number, they're
Speaker 3: gonna play it regardless, or they're gonna play it way
Speaker 3: too low.
Speaker 5: But yeah, that happens every day for sure.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 4: I think the biggest problem, the biggest concern is perceived
Speaker 4: persistence what they call so a lot of people call
Speaker 4: it these games persistently games, and then you have what's
Speaker 4: perceived persistence, so it looks like it's building, it looks
Speaker 4: like you've got something. You know, a pig's ready to explode,
Speaker 4: or the drums are filling up with you know, they're
Speaker 4: about to overflow, and it has nothing to do with
Speaker 4: the the expectation, but it's perceived. And that's, honestly, is
Speaker 4: a big part of where the website comes in. Somebody
Speaker 4: we just had one the other day. Guy says, I
Speaker 4: play in Detroit and I love this game. I've been
Speaker 4: winning on it, and you know, where where should I?
Speaker 4: I don't see anything about it? And Ben rode back
Speaker 4: to me. He said, that's a perceived persistence game. You've
Speaker 4: been getting lucky. Stopped playing that game right away. And
Speaker 4: you know, as more of these come out, because they'll
Speaker 4: try to fool people with those, you need to know
Speaker 4: which ones to avoid. And that's a big positive of
Speaker 4: being a member of the website like this.
Speaker 1: You know. The other thing is we're for the Las
Speaker 1: Vegas Strip. The pros are actually good for the They
Speaker 1: will never believe this, but it's actually good for them
Speaker 1: to have pros because they're getting a lot of extra
Speaker 1: action that they wouldn't get at all. And it's one
Speaker 1: thing if you have regular players like a locals joint,
Speaker 1: but on the strip, they've decided to butcher the cow
Speaker 1: instead of milk it, so they have the worst rtps
Speaker 1: of anybody. They have triple and quadruple zero roulette, and
Speaker 1: they just want to rape whoever comes in the door.
Speaker 1: So they don't it doesn't matter to them that the
Speaker 1: bad player isn't winning that jackpot because they're just going
Speaker 1: to take all of that player's money anyway, and so
Speaker 1: anything that goes through the machine by a pro is
Speaker 1: added profit for them.
Speaker 4: It's what we've been talking about for the last year
Speaker 4: and a half the Vegas gouch, and I mean that's
Speaker 4: what's going on. The gouge is happening everywhere. Is happening
Speaker 4: with zor frees, is happening with parking fees.
Speaker 2: But it's also.
Speaker 4: Happening in the tightening of the games, and they want
Speaker 4: every single penny and they don't want anybody coming through
Speaker 4: and taking that money that they're not going to get
Speaker 4: you back at I think it's got to come to
Speaker 4: a point where somebody at top says, leave it alone.
Speaker 4: To a certain degree, you want to throw out the
Speaker 4: bad guys. Throw out the bad guys, but we're not
Speaker 4: gonna cut our heads off by getting rid of these
Speaker 4: great machines.
Speaker 1: I think. I don't think they'll take out the machines.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Vegas is kind of a special case too,
Speaker 3: as far as you have so many tourists to come
Speaker 3: in that you don't really need your regulars as much
Speaker 3: as you might if you're kind of like a smaller
Speaker 3: casino in the middle of nowhere, where it is maybe
Speaker 3: more problematic to have advantage players. In Vegas, you're going
Speaker 3: to have kind of a cycle of new people coming in. So,
Speaker 3: like you said, the advantage players are showing some huge
Speaker 3: betting numbers. These machines are getting four or five times
Speaker 3: as much action as some dust collector sitting in the corner.
Speaker 3: So I mean these by those metrics. It's definitely nice
Speaker 3: to have advantage players in Vegas. If you're looking at
Speaker 3: it like that, you know, I know we're talking.
Speaker 4: This is gambling with an edge and where you know,
Speaker 4: I know where We've got a lot of pros out
Speaker 4: there listening, going do I want to do this? I'm
Speaker 4: gonna make a I want to make a point about this.
Speaker 4: If you want to work hard, you can make a
Speaker 4: living at this. I know people who are doing it.
Speaker 4: Ben those people who are doing it. He's doing it.
Speaker 4: But what's really cool is that it's a good side
Speaker 4: gig man. It's like when you're walking through when you're
Speaker 4: just a regular player, you're walking around, you see one,
Speaker 4: you go play it. It happens all the time. Like
Speaker 4: when I'm out with my buddies, who before this knew
Speaker 4: more about it than me. They're like, here's a good one.
Speaker 4: You want to go partners. You know this one's got
Speaker 4: a lot of risk, this one's volatile. You want to
Speaker 4: go partners on this one. Or I'm going to play
Speaker 4: this one. I'll be done with this in five minutes
Speaker 4: and boom we're knocking off money. Same thing as playing
Speaker 4: Ultimate X. You find Ultimate X in every bar, you
Speaker 4: find the hangars. You know you've got if you've got
Speaker 4: a two times a two times Ultimate X hanger on
Speaker 4: a ten play, you got a four and a half
Speaker 4: percent edge just a single two timer. And so you're
Speaker 4: playing these games with gigantic edges and small but it
Speaker 4: adds you make money at the end of the year
Speaker 4: by the time it's done. And I'll add this one
Speaker 4: thing we did. I insisted we have this chapter on
Speaker 4: Ultimate X, even though it's not a slot machine, because
Speaker 4: nobody had published the proper strategy. Even Us Shackelford did one.
Speaker 4: He didn't quite understand it. He was too conservative. He'll
Speaker 4: fix that in the next book. But one of the
Speaker 4: twenty five chapters is proper play of Ultimate X. And
Speaker 4: I think being able to find these machines, you know,
Speaker 4: on a lark and go ooh, good, one man, I'm
Speaker 4: going to play that with positive expectation. It's strong.
Speaker 3: I think you're the player. You're describing Anthony as kind
Speaker 3: of the model. How I modeled how we modeled the website.
Speaker 3: It's this more casual player who's out at the casino,
Speaker 3: not someone who's necessarily going to be a full time
Speaker 3: or like I am. I mean, you certainly could be,
Speaker 3: you'd have to put in a lot of time. But
Speaker 3: this is the way the website's built and how it's
Speaker 3: with the with the videos and how to trying to
Speaker 3: simplify everything. It's far more of a casual person. Not
Speaker 3: to say someone who does this all the time. They
Speaker 3: could get a lot of use from as well. But
Speaker 3: that was kind of the person I had in mind
Speaker 3: when I was doing these different write ups and videos.
Speaker 4: And then potentially they evolved. You know that beginning player
Speaker 4: starts playing and going this is great, and he goes,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna I'm gonna put in a little more effort.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go to two more places, and look, before
Speaker 4: you know it, he's saying I'm going to go on
Speaker 4: a regular route. I'm going to start finding things. So
Speaker 4: you you know, you take it as far as you
Speaker 4: want to take it.
Speaker 1: I will say one of the side benefits of playing
Speaker 1: slots is almost everybody I know who does it has
Speaker 1: lost weight because you know, you're gonna get if you're
Speaker 1: out there really hustling, you're gonna get ten twenty thirty
Speaker 1: thousand steps a day. Now, a lot of people don't
Speaker 1: want to work that hard, you know, which is which
Speaker 1: is true of almost any professional gambling.
Speaker 4: But that's a that's a good side benefit. We're gonna
Speaker 4: have to put that in the promo.
Speaker 3: Honestly, that's that's super true as well. I mean, we
Speaker 3: didn't mention that anywhere, but it's definitely true. You get
Speaker 3: a lot of steps in.
Speaker 2: When I started, i'd becoming known as a video poker expert.
Speaker 2: With my classes and books and stuff. I made it
Speaker 2: easy to know that I was an expert. Now this
Speaker 2: kind of reaction are this type of knowledge led some
Speaker 2: casinos to restrict me just because I made it easy
Speaker 2: to know that I was an expert. Now, with your
Speaker 2: face and voice out there, Ben, whether Ben Rosenthal is
Speaker 2: the name on your driver's license or not, Sue's casinos
Speaker 2: are going to becoming aware of who you are. Are
Speaker 2: you concerned that becoming famous is gonna restrict your action?
Speaker 3: It could happen. I mean, I'm not fin it's impossible.
Speaker 3: I'm wearing the shades I don't know if that's doing anything.
Speaker 3: That's why I'm wearing glasses like this.
Speaker 1: We're audio only, so we're the video here is only
Speaker 1: on so so we don't talk over each other. We
Speaker 1: can see you know each other.
Speaker 5: I see. Okay, Well anyway, yeah, I am.
Speaker 3: I do think of that. I mean, it could happen.
Speaker 3: I've been kicked out of casinos before. I mean, they
Speaker 3: wouldn't be the first time. It's also I mean, they
Speaker 3: do have facial recognition in some casinos, but I mean
Speaker 3: just because they kick you out, it's not it's not
Speaker 3: like always the end all be all.
Speaker 5: You just go back in, you know.
Speaker 3: So I'm not super worried about it, but I at
Speaker 3: the same time, I do think about it.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: It's cool.
Speaker 4: I'll make another point too, when we're talking about levels
Speaker 4: of expertise here, some of these things you know in
Speaker 4: the book and on the website, they're all categorized by volatility,
Speaker 4: you know, the ones that are dangerous to play risky,
Speaker 4: you know, versus the ones that are easy and happen
Speaker 4: fast and you know, so your exposure is not so great,
Speaker 4: but they're also ease of play. Like you find something
Speaker 4: like an Ocean's Magic or Scare of anybody can play
Speaker 4: these games. You don't have to really do calculation.
Speaker 1: You know, you'll tell other.
Speaker 4: Things like like the Bingo game, I forget what's it
Speaker 4: called ben Cashman Bingo and things like that. You're adding
Speaker 4: up numbers and doing things like that. So it goes
Speaker 4: up in difficulty usually as it goes up in volatility
Speaker 4: as well. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Actually, so on the website you have a red light
Speaker 1: green light yellow light system for telling the player how
Speaker 1: long a play you can expect. And that's actually a
Speaker 1: great feature, and I think most of the recreational players
Speaker 1: want those green light plays that Anthony was talking about,
Speaker 1: where it's it's going to be done in five minutes,
Speaker 1: whereas I'm actually more interested in the play that might
Speaker 1: take two hours.
Speaker 4: Sure yea, Anthony, Well, I was just going to say
Speaker 4: bankroll has to do with it too. You know, you
Speaker 4: get the bankroll to play it, you're going to get
Speaker 4: juice your up, you know situations. A guy called me
Speaker 4: the other day and said, do you think I would
Speaker 4: be good on this? I mean this would be good
Speaker 4: for me. I go, what do you play? He plays
Speaker 4: all high limits stuff. I go, you're going to find
Speaker 4: opportunities on the high limit of stuff becau all the
Speaker 4: grinders and you know the you know, the guys that
Speaker 4: are out there scuffling around. They don't have the bankroll
Speaker 4: or play these, so again, these different levels of excess.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know about the market you're in, Ben,
Speaker 1: but one of the problems we have around Las Vegas
Speaker 1: is there are a lot of crackheads and things that
Speaker 1: have learned about machines and they will sit on the
Speaker 1: machine and not play it, and then you know, if
Speaker 1: you want to play it, they want a piece of
Speaker 1: it or yeah, or this supposedly they want to split
Speaker 1: it with you, but they don't have any money. Have
Speaker 1: you run into this and how do you deal with it?
Speaker 3: It's funny you mentioned that I actually had a not
Speaker 3: a chapter, but maybe a page dedicated to that initially
Speaker 3: in the book, but it seemed a little bit too
Speaker 3: kind of like, I don't know, rare for I didn't
Speaker 3: want to like make anyone nervous, because that's really not
Speaker 3: the norm, and you can avoid it very easily if
Speaker 3: you want to. You can say I'm not interested. I
Speaker 3: usually am interested. But if it's something that you're that
Speaker 3: makes you feel weird or you don't want to do
Speaker 3: deal with just say no, thank you or whatever. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I usually do. I'll always if someone shows me something,
Speaker 3: I'll see what they have. I mean a lot of
Speaker 3: times it's something really crappy. It's like, you know, I
Speaker 3: have a really small edge, and then if I'm giving
Speaker 3: them twenty percent or twenty five percent or whatever, then
Speaker 3: my edge is gone. But sometimes every now and then
Speaker 3: they'll have some grand slam can't miss. So it's like
Speaker 3: free money. So yeah, I'll give you whatever a percent
Speaker 3: that you want pretty much. So for me, I don't
Speaker 3: mind dealing with that. But I can see how that
Speaker 3: would make some people uncomfortable. But I'll say that's kind
Speaker 3: of a Las Vegas thing, maybe some like Atlantic City
Speaker 3: kind of stuff. Most casinos, you're not going to really
Speaker 3: run into that all that often.
Speaker 1: So one of the ways that so casinos here have
Speaker 1: started to react. Some of the casinos are now actively
Speaker 1: throwing people out. Some of them they will have signs
Speaker 1: that say seats are for active players only, so the
Speaker 1: crackhead can't just sit there and hold it and not
Speaker 1: let you have the machine without playing. But one of
Speaker 1: the most interesting ones is a new machine has taken
Speaker 1: away the screen that you need to see to know
Speaker 1: whether you have an edge or not, and it's just
Speaker 1: blind now, you know. So they've found a way to
Speaker 1: have a persistence machine, but you can't see the persistent state.
Speaker 3: I would think, I mean, i'd have to see which
Speaker 3: one you're talking about specifically, but I would think that
Speaker 3: would take away from the whole point of it being
Speaker 3: a persistence machine in the first place.
Speaker 1: If you can well, I agree, that's it's the feature
Speaker 1: the players like, right exactly.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, I don't see that being that popular.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's like some curveball they're trying. I don't know,
Speaker 3: but I don't see that being like a threat to this,
Speaker 3: just because why even had a persistence massion in the
Speaker 3: first place If you can't the person playing can't see
Speaker 3: what they're doing.
Speaker 1: By the way, here's here's another thing that happened in
Speaker 1: Las Vegas, and I actually think that this is technically illegal.
Speaker 1: One of the big casinos on the strip, when the
Speaker 1: f one was in town at night, would reset the
Speaker 1: machine down to a way lower number, which actually affects
Speaker 1: the RTP of the machine when you do that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that thinks that seems super illegal. I don't know
Speaker 5: how they got away with that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think they're not. They're not supposed to.
Speaker 4: I don't think they can do that if.
Speaker 1: They're uh, but they did it right, how would you?
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you could try to call gaming
Speaker 1: and have them investigated, or you can.
Speaker 4: I don't think if there was if there was a
Speaker 4: collected uh, you know, a cruing jackpot, I don't think
Speaker 4: they can do that. But maybe they.
Speaker 1: Only if it's money, right, if it's free free play
Speaker 1: or free spins or things like that, they can reset
Speaker 1: a machine, but that affects the RTP when they do it.
Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah, I mean I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I wasn't class action lawsuit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what you end up being. Really, I can't imagine.
Speaker 4: I mean, you have to go through paperwork and everything
Speaker 4: just to change returns on machines. You've got to go
Speaker 4: through a bunch of a bunch of permissions, and you've
Speaker 4: got to get in there with a tech and everything else.
Speaker 4: It's always been.
Speaker 1: Really, I mean, they they're only changing the RTP for
Speaker 1: that one sort of moment in time. The overall RTP
Speaker 1: on the machine, like if they were doing it every night,
Speaker 1: then yeah, the RTP is going to be way worse
Speaker 1: than they it.
Speaker 3: You know, would they then if they did lower dramatically,
Speaker 3: even if it's just one day, would they have to
Speaker 3: raise the RTP for other days to make up for
Speaker 3: that to get the average?
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that, you know. Some Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that, you know, I'm sure that they don't
Speaker 1: even worry about it, right, I mean, who's who's going
Speaker 1: to do anything to them for doing that?
Speaker 4: Well, somebody will eventually, I mean, if that's again statute,
Speaker 4: somebody will eventually, like you say, a class action at
Speaker 4: some point or whatever. You know, we keep coming back
Speaker 4: to this. You know, you're going around and round, like
Speaker 4: what are the casinos going to do? I mean, when
Speaker 4: it's all said and done, the casino just want to
Speaker 4: make money and they're not going to do something drastic
Speaker 4: that's going to stop the flow of money coming in
Speaker 4: from these machines. I saw some numbers the other day
Speaker 4: just on statistics from February or March or something like that,
Speaker 4: and you know, I'm looking at the big win and
Speaker 4: back and all of this, and then I look at
Speaker 4: slots and slots just dwarfs it. I mean just dwarfs everything,
Speaker 4: and I mean that's that is, that's their mother love,
Speaker 4: that's where it comes from. And I don't think they're
Speaker 4: going to fool around with it too much.
Speaker 2: To be honest with you, Anthony, you're kidding yourself. The
Speaker 2: major casinos one slot machine that they do it regularly
Speaker 2: on is Buffalo.
Speaker 6: Power Pay, where they have the Major and the Mega
Speaker 6: which keep growing. But every night they get reset back
Speaker 6: to thirty and fifty, which makes it into a I
Speaker 6: don't know, an eighty five game or something, and as
Speaker 6: it builds up during the day and at nighttime, it
Speaker 6: gets reset back to thirty and fifty over and over
Speaker 6: and over again. Enow, a knowledgeable player goes up and
Speaker 6: tells the slot director, why are you doing this? The
Speaker 6: slot director presumably could use that as a well, if
Speaker 6: you know we're doing it, then you're too good a
Speaker 6: player and we don't want your action.
Speaker 1: This is I wonder if somebody called gaming and ask
Speaker 1: them about it, they still have.
Speaker 2: To put their name on the complaint. And so you're
Speaker 2: gonna need to.
Speaker 1: To lose that one casino.
Speaker 4: All right, you go find it and call me in.
Speaker 4: I'll put my name on a complaint. I don't have
Speaker 4: a problem for that, Okay, seriously, I mean, if they're
Speaker 4: doing something wrong, I mean I would like to understand
Speaker 4: it and why they can do it, and why you
Speaker 4: tell people that they can do it, you know, I mean,
Speaker 4: I got no problem with that.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: They're also if they're doing something like that, they're also
Speaker 3: hurting their recreational players even worse than they're getting hurt currently,
Speaker 3: because I mean, if they're I just.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they don't care. They don't care about the
Speaker 1: recreational players.
Speaker 4: Well, that's what they play.
Speaker 2: They don't.
Speaker 3: That's why they don't care about the recreational players. And
Speaker 3: I don't think they care about advantage players. And they
Speaker 3: do care about advantage players.
Speaker 4: No, they say they because they care about the recreational players.
Speaker 4: That's what they say. So it's like, right, okay, you know,
Speaker 4: I mean, I I think it's just going to come
Speaker 4: to a point where that decision is going to be made.
Speaker 4: And you know, Bob, you say, Okay, they're doing it here.
Speaker 4: I doubt they're doing it everywhere. But you know, again,
Speaker 4: we shall see.
Speaker 2: All right. I will tell you the game in the
Speaker 2: casino and you can watch it.
Speaker 1: Cool, I mean, actually, it would be great if they
Speaker 1: do it at the same time every night. It'd be
Speaker 1: great to go in and videotape it and show it
Speaker 1: to gaming Yeah, for sure. But you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I do not have great faith in the competence of gaming.
Speaker 1: You know, we've had Bob Ner session on so many
Speaker 1: times where he has stories about gaming agents who just
Speaker 1: don't understand the law or whatever. But here's a perfect example.
Speaker 1: I called a former gaming agent that we all know
Speaker 1: and said, hey, would these bubble roulette machines? Is that
Speaker 1: considered a slot machine where they can set the whole
Speaker 1: to whatever they want? Or is that like video poker
Speaker 1: has to be dealt from a fifty two card deck?
Speaker 1: Is that a one and thirty eight chance on every spin?
Speaker 1: And his answer was, gee, that's a good question. I
Speaker 1: don't know. And then he was gonna call gaming and
Speaker 1: apparently they didn't know the answer either, So you know,
Speaker 1: that's that's the kind of competence we're dealing with.
Speaker 4: Great, I've got hey, I got one, I got one
Speaker 4: more announcement. Oh right, the Grocating Book is it?
Speaker 1: Oh wow? And what's the price?
Speaker 4: Lockdown Edition, the Ultimate Report Lockdown Edition, This is the money.
Speaker 4: This is the money book.
Speaker 1: It's a thousand bucks wow. And are you ready to ship?
Speaker 4: He is. He is working on coding everything. You know,
Speaker 4: we're taking much care with this book because the information
Speaker 4: is so strong. He's putting it together and we will
Speaker 4: be ready to ship in about a week.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So we've got a mailing list of people who are
Speaker 4: on the list to get the book. You know, we
Speaker 4: had this thing when we're talking about price. He said
Speaker 4: you wanted to put a thousand dollars on it. I'm like,
Speaker 4: that is kind of steep, you know, he goes, he goes.
Speaker 4: Anybody who uses this information correctly will make it back
Speaker 4: in one session easy if you got the right bankroll.
Speaker 4: So I'm just for those of you who have been
Speaker 4: waiting for the Groceeing book for what two years now?
Speaker 4: Richard doing it every time you're on we talk about it.
Speaker 4: We actually we actually have the book, the books in
Speaker 4: hands and James is putting it together. It comes with
Speaker 4: an elaborate thinking of how you got to register and
Speaker 4: everything else. So we're putting that together right now. But
Speaker 4: I know people have been waiting. This is the first
Speaker 4: announcement that it's in can anyone who has a thousand
Speaker 4: dollars get it or does James have to approve the
Speaker 4: sale for each one. Knowing James, he will want to
Speaker 4: approve them all, I think. And that's just the way
Speaker 4: he operates. You know, when you talk about the tail
Speaker 4: wagging the dog and publisher author, this is about as
Speaker 4: extreme as it gets. He makes the rules and re
Speaker 4: implement them. That like Ben Ben was like easy. Ben
Speaker 4: Ben was a dream author. Man, Ben is a dream author.
Speaker 4: And that's why I know this website is going to
Speaker 4: be good because he is so attentive. He answers every question.
Speaker 4: How long are you going to be able to keep
Speaker 4: that up, Man, I don't know, We'll see. I want
Speaker 4: to know.
Speaker 1: I want to know the boost in UH registrations to
Speaker 1: the website when this comes out.
Speaker 4: I'll let you know. You know, the bigger he gets,
Speaker 4: the better it's going to get because a lot of
Speaker 4: people are they're going to be, you know, close to
Speaker 4: the best with their information, but a lot of people
Speaker 4: are going to share and it's gonna it's gonna get better.
Speaker 2: As we go. Ben. Usually at the end of our show,
Speaker 2: Munch can ask which is your favorite Las Vegas restaurant?
Speaker 2: That isn't in a casino. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: were ready for that, but we want to know.
Speaker 3: Oh man, I was not ready for that because I
Speaker 3: usually just get whatever I can get for free in
Speaker 3: the casinos. But man, there was this pizza place I
Speaker 3: went to. It was Detroit style pizza. I forgot what
Speaker 3: it was called, though you guys might know it.
Speaker 1: The arts district.
Speaker 5: I don't even know where it was. I feel like
Speaker 5: you had like mushroom. It was like something mushroom.
Speaker 4: But there's one called Red Dwarf. Red Dwarf is maybe
Speaker 4: that was it.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's not like A.
Speaker 3: I don't remember the name. But it was Detroit style pizza.
Speaker 3: It was delicious, it was great. I went with my
Speaker 3: body who staked me in the main event last year.
Speaker 3: I went there with them. But normally, when I'm by myself,
Speaker 3: I'm just getting camp food or whatever.
Speaker 5: I'm not spending money at some nice place.
Speaker 1: Actually that it's one of the benefits this whole slop
Speaker 1: thing is is all the comps big time.
Speaker 3: That's a that's a huge part of it, because I mean,
Speaker 3: right now I'm in Colorado. I mean a I'm not
Speaker 3: paying for my room. I'm not paying for food, I
Speaker 3: get free slop play. That's a huge part of this
Speaker 3: whole thing. I mean, they might start cutting that back.
Speaker 3: That's not impossible when they if they start identifying you
Speaker 3: as an advantage player, they might say, well, why are
Speaker 3: we giving you for rooms? Why are we giving you
Speaker 3: five hundred dollars a slop play? Just coming here and
Speaker 3: killing us? So, I mean, yeah that for the last
Speaker 3: four or five years, I've been traveling everywhere for free.
Speaker 3: It's been great. But who knows. Hopefully that's that'll say
Speaker 3: the case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the only reason I got into it actually was
Speaker 1: to uh get free cruises and uh comp meedles in restaurants.
Speaker 1: My wife likes to eat it. I mean, I wasn't
Speaker 1: in it so much for the cash, but the cash
Speaker 1: is nice, right right.
Speaker 4: Okay, going going back to Red Dwarf. All right, I'm
Speaker 4: guessing it was Red Dwarf because they.
Speaker 5: I don't know what I said, Musher, Maybe it was
Speaker 5: Red Dwarf. Well, body will know for sure.
Speaker 4: You got about the best Detroit style pizza there in Vegas,
Speaker 4: So I'll add I'll add to his recommendation. But here's
Speaker 4: a little known fact. The shop or the restaurant is
Speaker 4: in a building that used to be a used to
Speaker 4: be a nightclub, and it was the last place I
Speaker 4: worked where I drew a paycheck. Where I was I
Speaker 4: was a doorman at that nightclub and uh I got
Speaker 4: a lot of stories from that too. But it was
Speaker 4: the last place I drew a paycheck before I started
Speaker 4: gambling and then started a publishing company.
Speaker 1: And where is it.
Speaker 4: It's over right by right by Sunrise Hospital on on
Speaker 4: Maryland Parkway. Huh. So it was, so I'm eating my pizza,
Speaker 4: I'm looking around, going, oh my god, this is this
Speaker 4: is spooky?
Speaker 5: Is it dark in there? Like was the lighting?
Speaker 3: Kind of?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: Okay, that that was the place, because I remember I
Speaker 3: was wearing shades too for some reason, and I didn't
Speaker 3: bring my regular glasses with me, and I was like, dude,
Speaker 3: I can't see anything.
Speaker 5: So I think that must have been the place.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I used to be called the Keyboard Lounge. There
Speaker 4: was a Keyboard Lounge and I was a doorman there.
Speaker 4: I wore red tuxedo one night in the black tuxedo
Speaker 4: the next.
Speaker 1: Was that back where the Elephant Bar used to be.
Speaker 1: It was across the streets from Elephant Bar. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: There were three big nightclubs, Elephant Bar, Keyboard Lounge, and
Speaker 4: the Brewery. Those were the three.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well at Dirty Sally's, which became rumors.
Speaker 4: That was before yeah, that was this was. This was
Speaker 4: in the early early eighties, earlier minions. So Anthony, do
Speaker 4: you have a new restaurant you can recommend? Not in
Speaker 4: the casino? Yeah, this is this is this is kind
Speaker 4: of crazy. But on Wednesday, I just did it. On
Speaker 4: Wednesdays there's a new bar called Scoundrels and Scoundrels there's
Speaker 4: this is the third Scoundrels in Las Vegas, and on
Speaker 4: Wednesdays only, they have the best ribbi special that I've had,
Speaker 4: and I don't know how long. It's nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 4: It's a ribbi which comes with an awesome salad and
Speaker 4: a big baked potato, you know, with the works. I
Speaker 4: couldn't believe the other Scoundrels has one on Tuesdays and
Speaker 4: this is the same thing, but it's better. So I
Speaker 4: would say Scoundrels on Lamb on Tuesdays or Scoundrels on
Speaker 4: Rainbow on Wednesdays.
Speaker 2: Okay, on opposite sides of this street, opposite sides of
Speaker 2: the town.
Speaker 4: Yep, exactly. Okay, one more, hold on, I got one more.
Speaker 4: I just wrote about it.
Speaker 2: In LVA.
Speaker 4: There's a bar called Mad Maddie's. It's way up on. Yeah, no,
Speaker 4: what's the hera And they have twenty four to seven.
Speaker 4: They have the big hamsteak and eggs. Remember when those
Speaker 4: used to be everywhere that they bring out the steak.
Speaker 4: I'm in the ham and it would cover the plate
Speaker 4: and they got it and I haven't seen it forever
Speaker 4: and ever, and they've got it and it's twelve ninety
Speaker 4: nine twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1: So in the future, the guest, it's going to be
Speaker 1: favorite restaurant, not on the strip, And for Anthony it's
Speaker 1: going to be favorite restaurant not in a bar. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, Bob, you want to take us home.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Ben, thank you, Anthony, Thank you Richard. Go
Speaker 2: out and hit lots of royal flushes, everybody. Good day.
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