1 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,920 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the 3 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:28,920 Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,679 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:32,759 --> 00:00:36,920 the Federalist dot com. Make sure to subscribe wherever you 6 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,719 download your podcast, and of course to the premium version 7 00:00:39,759 --> 00:00:42,560 of our website as well. Our guest today is former 8 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:47,000 federal prosecutor John O'Connor, author of Postgate Now The Washington 9 00:00:47,039 --> 00:00:51,359 Post Betrayed Deep Throat, covered up Watergate, and began today's 10 00:00:51,439 --> 00:00:56,200 partisan advocacy of journalism, and host of the Mysteries of 11 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,280 Watergate podcast. He served as an assistant us AT twy 12 00:01:00,479 --> 00:01:04,439 in northern California, representing the United States in both criminal 13 00:01:04,599 --> 00:01:08,719 and civil cases. Today we're talking about the federal judges. 14 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,760 It seems dancing all over the executive branch. Good morning, sir, 15 00:01:12,799 --> 00:01:14,959 Thank you for joining us at the Federalist Radio Hour. 16 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,959 Let us begin there, if you would please, because I 17 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:26,879 think what we're seeing today feels unprecedented. It feels certainly 18 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,159 like an abusive power. We have seen a lot of 19 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:37,400 executive orders coming out from President Donald Trumps. That is 20 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,319 definitely his domain. I don't think there's any argument about that. 21 00:01:42,359 --> 00:01:46,439 The argument, though, is from these federal judges who say 22 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,280 he does not have the authority. And whether it be 23 00:01:50,879 --> 00:01:56,719 executive orders on DEI or immigration, you name it. Is 24 00:01:57,319 --> 00:02:00,719 this a rogue judiciary we're seeing today your estimation. 25 00:02:03,159 --> 00:02:10,719 Speaker 2: It's not intentionally rogue. It is society has developed an 26 00:02:10,759 --> 00:02:14,879 activist judiciary. No one has tried to put a stop 27 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:19,560 to it, and there's not been much intellectual thrust against it. 28 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,919 And so I think an intelligent judge like Judge Boseburg, 29 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:30,319 probably left leaning, believes in the power of the gavel 30 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:37,919 and the judicial branch and is unwittingly going further than 31 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,719 he should. I think he's acting in good faith. But 32 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,280 let me tell you what I think the overall problem 33 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:50,240 is in our thinking. Some of this is just the 34 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:55,840 way the left thinks about things. That our major concern 35 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:02,120 should be the poor, the downtrodden, or the people who 36 00:03:02,159 --> 00:03:07,479 are being marginalized, so to speak, and we have to 37 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:12,520 protect them. And the problem with that is, at some 38 00:03:12,759 --> 00:03:17,919 point the larger body politics suffers. You can only extend 39 00:03:18,039 --> 00:03:22,240 so many rights to so many, again marginalized people like 40 00:03:22,319 --> 00:03:27,199 illegal immigrants, that the whole body politics suffers and we're 41 00:03:27,199 --> 00:03:30,039 doing things that we really shouldn't do that are really 42 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,240 not appropriate. Let me give you an example here with 43 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:39,479 this Judge Boseburg case with the deportations to El Salvador. 44 00:03:40,639 --> 00:03:44,479 If a person crosses the river the Rio Grande and 45 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:49,080 the mortar patrol immediately catches him. Nobody would have any 46 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,599 objections to the fact that you take him by the collar, 47 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,039 waight across the river and shove him back over to Mexico. 48 00:03:55,159 --> 00:03:58,080 Nobody would say that's wrong. You don't have to have 49 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,520 a judge, don't have to have a due process hearing, 50 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,199 you know, you know, give him some soup and you know, 51 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,199 put him in a nice place and wait for the 52 00:04:07,319 --> 00:04:10,439 judge to hear his case. You don't need to do that, 53 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,800 and nobody would have any problem with that. You know, 54 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,839 there's not really any right to do process because due 55 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:22,920 process is about taking something. Due process applies to every 56 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,759 person in the United States person. But the question is 57 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:31,879 are you depriving somebody of something liberty or property without 58 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,680 due process. In the situation I talked about, there's no 59 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,720 liberty or property that that person has a right to, 60 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,560 and therefore there really isn't much in the way of 61 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,240 due process. Do him. But here's what happens. Now that 62 00:04:47,399 --> 00:04:50,480 same person stays over here for two years, gets away 63 00:04:50,519 --> 00:04:52,560 from the authorities, and now you try to do the 64 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,480 exact same thing, take them and throw them across the river, 65 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,959 so to speak. And now all of a sudden, oh gee, 66 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,000 then we have to give him process. So it's well meaning. 67 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,800 I think it really is well meaning. The perfect is 68 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:11,040 the enemy of the good. Perfect due process and a 69 00:05:11,079 --> 00:05:14,519 perfect system where everybody gets their trial, everybody gets their 70 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,759 day in court, just is not practical and it's not 71 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:23,120 really required in my view by the Constitution, you know, 72 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:30,959 decurate non minimis or whatever. It's non curate lex dominimus 73 00:05:31,079 --> 00:05:33,000 non curate lex is what I'm trying to say. The 74 00:05:33,079 --> 00:05:36,600 law does not concern itself with trifles, and we have 75 00:05:36,879 --> 00:05:42,839 trifling matters here of due process in my opinion. So 76 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:49,439 now meanwhile, then, just by way of example, the plan 77 00:05:49,519 --> 00:05:51,480 ofs try to gain the system in the case in 78 00:05:51,519 --> 00:05:55,480 the Bozburg case by not filing a habeas corpus action. 79 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,000 They tried to get around filing a habeas corpus action, 80 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,680 which is proper remedy when somebody has been wrongfully detained 81 00:06:03,759 --> 00:06:07,720 or wrongfully deported. The reason they didn't file a habeas 82 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,360 corpus action was they'd have to do that in Harlingen, 83 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,680 Texas down there by the Rio Grande. They did want 84 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,720 to do that. They want to come to Washington, d c. 85 00:06:15,879 --> 00:06:19,639 And have a liberal judge preside. So what they did 86 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:24,759 is they challenged Donald Trump's proclamation. So what happens is 87 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:31,959 it's an artificial get around of the of what the 88 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,279 proper procedure should have been. Now Judge Bozburg has the case, 89 00:06:36,399 --> 00:06:39,360 and he makes these rulings and asks that the plane 90 00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:41,879 be sent back, and demands that the plane be sent 91 00:06:41,959 --> 00:06:44,680 back and so forth and so on. He shouldn't be 92 00:06:44,759 --> 00:06:47,480 hearing that case in the first place. It's an artificial 93 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,680 basis to file the suit. And the Supreme Court held that. 94 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,720 Supreme Court says, hey, this isn't the way you challenge this. 95 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,240 You challenge it by habeas corpus, and it should have 96 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:03,720 been in Harlingen. Judge, you are wrong. Now what happens is, yeah, well. 97 00:07:03,519 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: We definitely have a manipulation of the process then, and 98 00:07:06,399 --> 00:07:10,199 I think that's where the concern comes in. There was 99 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:16,120 an interesting piece and I rarely say that an even 100 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,560 keeled piece, and I more rarely say that in MSNBC 101 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,959 recently written by Jessica Levinson columnists there it is about 102 00:07:25,959 --> 00:07:29,600 as even keeled as MSNBC can get. But it notes that, 103 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,360 you know, we have a move that is going on 104 00:07:33,439 --> 00:07:38,879 in Congress to kind of end this judge shopping stuff. 105 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,079 Senator Chuck Grassley others introduced a Senate bill to limit 106 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:48,600 nationwide injunctions. Admitted, but he has admitted that neither party 107 00:07:48,639 --> 00:07:51,720 has been consistent when it comes to these kinds of things. 108 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:57,480 In essence, you know, conservatives cheer when judges order, you know, 109 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:03,360 issue orders this way against executive branch, the executive branch 110 00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:07,439 that they don't prefer. Liberals are now obviously doing the 111 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,399 same thing again, So we have this on both sides. 112 00:08:11,399 --> 00:08:14,959 But as you mentioned, the problem is that it has 113 00:08:15,079 --> 00:08:21,319 become the duty, it seems, of these activist judges now 114 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:26,360 in Washington, DC, but also elsewhere to come up with policy. 115 00:08:26,639 --> 00:08:30,560 I mean, in fact, aren't they indeed affecting policy? Are 116 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,600 they overstepping their bounds when it comes to the other 117 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,799 branches of government in our coequal form of governance? 118 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,519 Speaker 2: Well, that's right. They are. And that's the problem with 119 00:08:42,639 --> 00:08:45,919 the nationwide injunction. And that's the problem with judge shopping, 120 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,879 because once you bring up an issue that the judge 121 00:08:50,879 --> 00:08:53,519 really likes, oh boy, I've really wanted to weigh in 122 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:59,720 on this. Now he declares a nationwide a nationwide injunction 123 00:09:00,279 --> 00:09:03,039 or a nationwide class he may need he may not 124 00:09:03,159 --> 00:09:05,799 need to declare a class action, just say his injunction 125 00:09:05,879 --> 00:09:12,080 as nationwide force. And now he's setting policy and so. 126 00:09:14,879 --> 00:09:17,679 And if you're dealing with things like due process, where 127 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,399 there's not a written statute, it's his opinion about what 128 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:26,440 due processes. It's his opinion. And so now the judge 129 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,159 is really in the guise of being a judge, which 130 00:09:30,159 --> 00:09:35,200 one thinks of as interpreting the law. Interpreting the due 131 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,919 process clause is like saying, okay, write a novel yourself 132 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,279 and say it's part of the due process clause. It 133 00:09:41,399 --> 00:09:48,000 is something that is wholly within the creation of the court. 134 00:09:48,919 --> 00:09:52,600 And that's the problem, and that's the uh, that's the 135 00:09:52,639 --> 00:09:54,840 problem we have to deal with is how to how 136 00:09:54,879 --> 00:09:56,759 to put a stop to this. I think the best 137 00:09:56,799 --> 00:10:00,279 place to begin is with the Supreme Court. If they 138 00:10:00,279 --> 00:10:07,440 can take cases and really lay down law that really 139 00:10:07,799 --> 00:10:11,919 affects the lower courts and gives guideposts as to how 140 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,679 and when, if at any time, a nationwide injunction should 141 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:21,000 be issued and have some fairly strict guidelines so that 142 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,519 now down below the lower courts get the message. But 143 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,759 right now it's Katie bar the door. A lower court 144 00:10:28,879 --> 00:10:32,200 judge can do anything he wants and he's going to 145 00:10:32,279 --> 00:10:36,559 get his picture in the paper and as being an 146 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:40,759 anti Trump guy. And recall back in twenty seventeen when 147 00:10:40,759 --> 00:10:44,320 this started, you know, these judges were hailed as being 148 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:49,039 great heroes because they were resisting Trump. And the whole 149 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,919 thing is a witch's preve it really is. 150 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. I couldn't agree with you more on the point, 151 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,720 and I think it's a critical point that the Supreme 152 00:10:58,759 --> 00:11:00,720 Court needs to weigh in and it needs to. 153 00:11:00,639 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 2: Do so quickly. 154 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,279 Speaker 1: You know better than anybody how the wheels of justice 155 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,440 turn in this country in so many cases. So I 156 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,200 don't think we'll be looking at an expedient resolve to this, 157 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,639 but the things are subject to change. Back to the 158 00:11:14,639 --> 00:11:19,600 immigration point, you mentioned due process, and it was I 159 00:11:19,639 --> 00:11:23,039 think we all can understand that notion. If someone crosses 160 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,279 the Rio grant they're here illegally, you don't have to 161 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,240 let them in. The laws as first and foremost, there 162 00:11:30,279 --> 00:11:32,720 is a process that you have to follow. If you're 163 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,440 here illegally, you've already broken the law. But of course 164 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,879 you have, you know, the gnashing of teeth and the 165 00:11:38,919 --> 00:11:42,320 moaning from the usual suspects and the accomplished media and 166 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,759 the left after millions upon millions of illegal aliens were 167 00:11:46,799 --> 00:11:50,799 allowed into this country under the previous administration and that 168 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,320 was not ever stopped. But the question at its core 169 00:11:55,639 --> 00:12:01,360 is this, do illegal immigrants, and it comes to breaking 170 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:06,639 immigration law, do they have due process in the United 171 00:12:06,639 --> 00:12:09,399 States of America under the US Constitution. 172 00:12:11,519 --> 00:12:13,759 Speaker 2: Well, there are two ways to answer this. One is 173 00:12:13,799 --> 00:12:18,360 to say they don't because it is a matter of immigration, 174 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:27,039 and in essence, if they shouldn't be here, they shouldn't 175 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,600 have due process. Perhaps the better way to phrase it 176 00:12:30,639 --> 00:12:35,080 is their due process rights are very slight and slim 177 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,440 because of what they're doing, and therefore you don't need 178 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,240 a whole panoply of remedies and hearings and so forth. 179 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,919 You can deport the people, send them across the river 180 00:12:46,519 --> 00:12:50,159 and say, look, if there's anything you want to challenge, 181 00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:56,039 you know, pay your fee and file your suit. That's 182 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,279 really the way it should be. That is to say, 183 00:13:01,519 --> 00:13:04,720 you know what gives you a right? Do you immediately 184 00:13:04,759 --> 00:13:08,519 have some right once you make it across the river, 185 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,440 And that should be so that you can force us, 186 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:19,440 force the country to give you really an expensive proceeding. 187 00:13:20,159 --> 00:13:22,720 And that's one of the problems. We have what at 188 00:13:22,799 --> 00:13:26,679 least ten million illegals here but probably more like thirty million. 189 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,879 Do each of them have their rights to their own 190 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:36,639 a hearing, you know, in person hearing before we deport 191 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:38,840 any of them? And I say no, I say, we're 192 00:13:38,879 --> 00:13:44,039 really stretching the due process clause beyond its intent. And 193 00:13:44,799 --> 00:13:48,159 I don't think. I know, logic says that, oh, well, 194 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,840 you have to give everybody this hearing, But I don't 195 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,759 think the original intent of the framers of the Constitution 196 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,000 was to do that. The found fathers at the same 197 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:07,759 time the constitutions issued, I think they're pretty tough on. 198 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:09,639 Speaker 3: You. 199 00:14:09,879 --> 00:14:15,279 Speaker 2: Any kind of aliens that we deemed hostile or we 200 00:14:15,399 --> 00:14:19,200 deemed not welcome. I mean, this is really now. We 201 00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:23,279 allowed more unfettered immigration in the beginning of our country, 202 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,919 of course, but of course now when people are coming 203 00:14:25,919 --> 00:14:29,000 in they're coming in in a hostile way against the 204 00:14:29,039 --> 00:14:31,360 interests in the United States, and I just think that 205 00:14:32,039 --> 00:14:38,200 their due process says rights are limited. So you know, 206 00:14:40,919 --> 00:14:43,240 I think we have to start thinking better. 207 00:14:47,799 --> 00:14:51,279 Speaker 3: It's time to embrace the suck once again. The Watched 208 00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:54,080 Out on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day 209 00:14:54,159 --> 00:14:57,120 Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy 210 00:14:57,159 --> 00:14:59,759 and how it affects your wallet. Every stock market sell 211 00:14:59,799 --> 00:15:02,279 off different The media will tell you it's the end 212 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,360 of the world. Don't believe it. 213 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: If you have an investment plan, you'll be just fine. 214 00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 3: Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street, 215 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:10,519 it's affecting you financially. 216 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 2: Be informed. 217 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 3: Check out the Watchdout on Wall Street podcast with christ 218 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,279 mccowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 219 00:15:19,039 --> 00:15:23,399 Speaker 1: And this is all branches of government. Of course, we 220 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,519 have existing laws on the books. We've had them for 221 00:15:25,559 --> 00:15:28,679 a long time. They just haven't been followed. So it's 222 00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:35,039 not certainly always and immediately a matter of changes from Congress. 223 00:15:35,279 --> 00:15:40,120 It's a matter of the executive branch enforcing the existing laws. 224 00:15:40,399 --> 00:15:43,080 We didn't have that in this country for the four 225 00:15:43,159 --> 00:15:47,120 years previous to the Trump administration when it came to immigration. 226 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,960 In fact, it was the policy of the Biden administration 227 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,799 to have at the very least generously putting this very 228 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:01,519 liberal policies on entry. Argue that we had really no 229 00:16:02,039 --> 00:16:04,879 order at all under the Biden administration, and I think 230 00:16:04,919 --> 00:16:08,879 that would be a good argument. But certainly, millions upon 231 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,679 millions of people entered into this country, some of them 232 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,320 on terrorist watch list as we know, many of them 233 00:16:16,399 --> 00:16:19,799 who have committed violent crimes in their countries of origin. 234 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,960 The American people are definitely, according to the polling, on 235 00:16:25,159 --> 00:16:30,000 board of fixing the illegal immigration process. They're on board 236 00:16:30,039 --> 00:16:36,480 with deporting illegal immigrants. Yet the court at courts, at 237 00:16:36,519 --> 00:16:42,000 every turn, at least these judges involved are appealing to 238 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,559 their interpretation of the constitution. What about the existing laws 239 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,480 on the books? Do those not count? 240 00:16:51,919 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 2: Let me give you something that I see a sort 241 00:16:55,240 --> 00:17:03,039 of a dynamic. Obama when he's precident, he stretches his 242 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,559 executive authority to say, look, because I'm in charge of 243 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,920 law enforcement, that's an executive function. I'm going to delay action. 244 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,400 So you have this DACAP, which is delayed action whatever 245 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,559 it is, on these young illegal immigrants. I'm going to 246 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,680 delay action, and everybody says, oh, that's so clever, Barack, 247 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,119 that you're using your executive discretion to an essence, allow 248 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,640 these young kids to stay here in the United States 249 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,319 and be free of deportation. You didn't get a law 250 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,319 from Congress, and you didn't even go to a judge 251 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:41,599 to say this is okay. You used your unfettered executive 252 00:17:41,599 --> 00:17:46,000 discretion to do this. Biden then takes five hundred thousand 253 00:17:46,039 --> 00:17:48,920 people from Haiti and other places and flies them into 254 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,519 the United States. That's solely a matter of executive discretion. 255 00:17:53,759 --> 00:17:57,000 There's no law that says this is okay. There's not 256 00:17:57,079 --> 00:18:00,240 a court that says it's okay. It's the executs of 257 00:18:00,279 --> 00:18:05,319 acting in an unfettered way. So let's assume that the presidents 258 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,880 do have that power to do that. Why can't the 259 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,799 next president use his discretion to take those people and 260 00:18:13,839 --> 00:18:17,119 remove them. Say okay, now i'm president, I'm not going 261 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,720 to delay action anymore, and I'm going to deport some 262 00:18:21,759 --> 00:18:23,559 of these people, at least the ones I don't like 263 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:28,240 or that are violating the law. Now, what happens when 264 00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:33,079 the government tries to deport somebody under DAKA The courts 265 00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:38,920 hold the rights have been created. In other words, now 266 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,640 you need your due process hearing before you can take 267 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,640 a DOCA person out of the country. You better have 268 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,039 a damn good reason to do this. So the courts 269 00:18:47,039 --> 00:18:49,680 have now hold well, now the person has a right. 270 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,400 Wait a second, does that person have a right? So 271 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:58,559 an executive can create rights of a certain type through 272 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,480 within the am but this authority, but the next executive 273 00:19:02,519 --> 00:19:06,559 can't undo those. Now there's something wrong with that. What 274 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,400 that is is that's a tremendous bias in favor of 275 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,319 what I would say rogue action by an executive. So 276 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:19,640 the executive in this case Trump, that's trying to really 277 00:19:20,079 --> 00:19:24,519 enforce the law and make sure we have an orderly 278 00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:29,119 immigration process. He's now hamstrung because of course, are now 279 00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:33,119 sort of expanding the whole notion of due process and 280 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,759 also what rights. Like I said, heer my example, if 281 00:19:36,759 --> 00:19:38,519 you come right over the river, you don't have a 282 00:19:38,599 --> 00:19:41,039 right yet, but now that you've been here for a while, 283 00:19:41,079 --> 00:19:45,039 now you have these vested rights. We're vesting rights in people. 284 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:58,200 So in essence, at an activist executive can create rights, 285 00:19:59,039 --> 00:20:03,000 but a conservative of executive cannot undo them. And that 286 00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:06,920 doesn't seem to make sense, and we have to be 287 00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:12,559 practical about what due process rights one of these immigrants has. 288 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,200 What have re vested in them? And I say nothing. 289 00:20:16,839 --> 00:20:20,559 They're here illegally. They should not be considered to have 290 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:27,680 vested rights. Yes, perhaps a hearing somewhere sometime, somehow, but 291 00:20:27,839 --> 00:20:36,160 not necessarily a formal a formal of ceremonial of trial. 292 00:20:37,279 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: That is breathtaking and infuriating at the same time. The 293 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,599 history that you just laid out, and that's exactly what's 294 00:20:43,599 --> 00:20:46,640 happened in this country over the last decade and a 295 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:51,880 half or so more so. And it's disparate treatment is 296 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,039 what it is. It's disparate treatment of the executive branch 297 00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:00,720 by the judicial branch. Some you know, some argue argued 298 00:21:00,799 --> 00:21:03,759 overstepping of the executive branch. If that's what the digital 299 00:21:03,759 --> 00:21:08,039 branch is arguing, is okay, as long as we you know, 300 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:13,000 it's it's nice as you mentioned, or kind or however 301 00:21:13,039 --> 00:21:16,400 we want to view it. But once you have a 302 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,079 president who says, listen, there's been a lot of damage 303 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,519 done because of the previous executive actions. We're going to 304 00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:26,880 reverse those again. He has the power to do that 305 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,119 under the you know, the arguments that the previous administrations 306 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,759 were able to do that. Now he's all of a sudden, 307 00:21:32,839 --> 00:21:36,720 Adolf Hitler, you know, now, all of a sudden, this 308 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:43,680 is a constitutional crisis. It is absolutely bewildering. But I 309 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,079 think it plays out to what your book is all about, 310 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,720 and I want to get to that in just a moment. 311 00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:57,200 Our guest today is former federal prosecutor John O'Connor, author 312 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,000 of Postgate. Now the Washington Post betrayed Deep Throat, covered 313 00:22:01,079 --> 00:22:04,400 up Watergate, and began today's part as an advocacy journalism. 314 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,960 He's also host of the Mysteries of Watergate show. You 315 00:22:08,039 --> 00:22:12,119 wrote this book because of the abuse of power going 316 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,599 on in many spheres, but particularly in the so called 317 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,640 fourth Estate. And I think about all of this in 318 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,759 the context of the latest cause celeb for the usual 319 00:22:22,839 --> 00:22:28,640 suspects in corporate media, the so called Marilyn Man deported 320 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:36,680 to El Salvador, according to all of the rhetoric that's 321 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:42,039 gone on from the corporate press, kilmar Abrego Garcia, who 322 00:22:42,079 --> 00:22:45,480 we have found out now has had quite a criminal record, 323 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,880 should never have been here in the first place. Now, 324 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,400 all of a sudden, we have these federal judges awarding 325 00:22:53,480 --> 00:23:00,160 him all kinds of rights that don't really exist. But 326 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,759 driving all of that are your folks at the Washington 327 00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:06,640 Post and the accomplice media who have told who have 328 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,759 been extremely irresponsible in their telling of this story. 329 00:23:11,759 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 2: Now that's right. The liberal press that I would even 330 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:22,759 call them liberal, the progressive press emphasizes these things, tries 331 00:23:22,839 --> 00:23:26,160 to make Trump look bad, but at the same time, 332 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:34,240 really they hide the abuse that's occurred under politicians as 333 00:23:34,279 --> 00:23:38,000 they like. And that's a problem. And all the you know, 334 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:43,839 the seemingly intelligent citizenry are not really told the truth, 335 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:49,880 and they're making decisions based on imperfect information. Each citizen 336 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,039 out there, even highly intelligent people, don't have time to 337 00:23:54,079 --> 00:23:59,480 research these things themselves and don't really understand what's going on. 338 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,960 So the fourth estate is a big player in what 339 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:09,039 we're talking about. They will emphasize the wrongdoing here with 340 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,759 the Garcia. Oh this is so terrible how we're treating 341 00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:17,480 this man, but there's no emphasis on the broader picture 342 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:23,200 and all the you know, the really unlawful activities of 343 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,480 activist presidents. I mean, think about that, all the things 344 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:34,079 that Biden did regarding just let's stick with immigration. But 345 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,720 nobody shines a light on that when it happens. And 346 00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:39,799 now here Trump's trying to get rid of one guy 347 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:45,440 who's a terrible guy. And I think anytime you're dealing 348 00:24:45,519 --> 00:24:49,960 with national security and the border, we're getting into that 349 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:56,119 issue of to what extent does the executive have a 350 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,400 realm of power that should not be reviewed or should 351 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,960 be reviewed with great deference by the courts. That's really 352 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,799 the way our systems should work in those matters. The 353 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,240 court should either not review them or give, as Justice 354 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:20,519 Roberts so well put it, judicial difference very politely. He 355 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:26,200 expressed that. But it's been the tradition before modern times 356 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,759 for courts to stay away from things that they considered 357 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:34,880 political questions or there's a question of executive power versus 358 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,599 a judicial power, to give deference to the executive. That's 359 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,359 no longer there. And a lot of this is because 360 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:48,960 of a media that considers itself part of the game. 361 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:56,000 As Matt Taibe says, since Watergate, journalists have wanted to 362 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:00,480 be behind the velvet rope. They've decided that they're job 363 00:26:00,599 --> 00:26:04,920 is to do what's right, to be activist, and once 364 00:26:05,039 --> 00:26:09,559 that happens, then it's your job to be on a 365 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:16,039 team and really be a pr organ for the political 366 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,400 view you espouse. And we're not getting good information from 367 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,680 the fourth Estate, is what it amounts to. 368 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've definitely seen that, and that's absolutely right. That's 369 00:26:25,559 --> 00:26:29,400 the most dangerous part about all of that as well, 370 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,680 is that you have this true collusion that's going on. 371 00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:37,279 I mean, you need no more you need no better 372 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,839 example of that than for previous years when the accomplice 373 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,680 media as I like to call them, covered up for 374 00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:50,200 a president who simply did not have the cognitive abilities 375 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:56,799 to lead this nation. And they have been on kind 376 00:26:56,839 --> 00:27:01,039 of an acceptance tour of that some of the books 377 00:27:01,079 --> 00:27:04,640 that we've seen from Jake Tapper and others, but many 378 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,119 of them, you know, just doubled down, and they've doubled 379 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,519 down and what they started to do in twenty seventeen 380 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,559 their resistance movement against Donald Trump. But it's more than that. 381 00:27:13,599 --> 00:27:15,880 And I think you drive that home in your book 382 00:27:16,599 --> 00:27:21,480 with what happened with Woodward and Bernstein. You know, they 383 00:27:21,519 --> 00:27:26,599 became household names in Watergate. They're reporting at the Washington 384 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:32,039 Post on Watergate. There were there were future there would 385 00:27:32,079 --> 00:27:36,680 be future generations of journalists who wanted to be the 386 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,160 next Woodward and Bernstein. All of that, didn't we create 387 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,960 out of Watergate, in particular, a star culture of the 388 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:52,000 media that has been really a dangerous component to what 389 00:27:52,079 --> 00:27:53,200 we're talking about here. 390 00:27:54,319 --> 00:28:01,839 Speaker 2: That's right, we have. You know, it encourages Michael Isikovs 391 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:03,720 of the world to make a big deal about the 392 00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:06,279 Kuran being flushed down the toilet and so forth. There's 393 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,359 a constant effort to be the next Woodward in Bernstein 394 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:16,640 and do something sensational. Think about this. As I point 395 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:21,920 out on my book Postgate, the reporting in Watergate was deceptive. 396 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,039 It seemed like it was factual, but it's very deceptive, 397 00:28:25,839 --> 00:28:30,759 much by concealing as to what was reported. It's the 398 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:39,640 concealing deliberately that drove Richard Nixon from office unfairly. If 399 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,119 you can affect a president, a sitting president that's been 400 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:49,119 popularly elected by the in forty nine states, and you, 401 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,519 as a journalist, two young guys can get rid of 402 00:28:52,559 --> 00:28:56,279 this president, think of the power you have. And that 403 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:01,559 Watergate scenario is taught in journalism school. It puffs up 404 00:29:01,599 --> 00:29:05,440 what the role is of a journalist, and rather than 405 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,680 calling balls and strikes and not being judgmental at all, 406 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,720 but just recording facts and letting people decide for themselves. 407 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:20,319 They've tried to shape public policy and public perceptions. So 408 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,920 now let's take what happened in Watergate. And Watergate, clearly, 409 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,720 the Washington Post covered up the fact that it was 410 00:29:27,759 --> 00:29:31,720 the CIA operation in Watergate, they had infiltrated the White 411 00:29:31,759 --> 00:29:35,640 House and that the target of the eavesdropping was the 412 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,519 bordello down the street where the DNC was giving referrals 413 00:29:40,519 --> 00:29:45,400 to out of area politicians who are visiting and referred 414 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:50,640 to the bordello. That's an entirely different cast on Watergate, 415 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,799 but that was hidden from the public. And okay, now 416 00:29:53,839 --> 00:29:57,559 let's go fast forward to Trump. Now, they don't like Trump, 417 00:29:57,759 --> 00:30:01,440 and both the Posts and New York Times have admitted 418 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,839 that there really were out after Trump because they're good 419 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,920 and we know that Trump is bad. So what happens 420 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,880 when this Russian collusion comes up? Russian collusion was something 421 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:18,519 that was a dirty trick started by Hillary Clinton, specifically 422 00:30:18,599 --> 00:30:22,240 Jake Sullivan, to try to take attention away from Bernie 423 00:30:22,319 --> 00:30:29,839 Sanders and started this whole Russian collusion charge. Any reporter 424 00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:35,200 that wanted to could have shown that all the witnesses 425 00:30:35,279 --> 00:30:40,640 that supposedly supported Russian collusion were actually in bed with Putin. 426 00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:46,440 There were Putin's oligarchs. So if Putin was really conspiring 427 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,240 with Donald Trump, would he allow all his people to 428 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:55,920 expose his collusion with Donald Trump? Of course not. But 429 00:30:56,039 --> 00:31:01,720 Christopher Steele was a puppet of Dara Pasca, for example, 430 00:31:02,079 --> 00:31:06,839 Glenn Simpson was a puppet of Dennis Katziv, who's an oligarch. 431 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,640 You have other people the same thing. You could look 432 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,240 at this and in ten minutes of intelligent investigative reporting 433 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,240 you would know that the Russian collusion thing could not 434 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,279 possibly have been real. That if anything, it was a 435 00:31:23,359 --> 00:31:28,720 campaign between where Hillary got and John Brennan got the 436 00:31:28,759 --> 00:31:34,720 help of Russians to discredit Trump. And it was a terrible, 437 00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:38,759 terrible plot. And actually there was a Russian collusion, but 438 00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:45,720 it was between Hillary's campaign and the Russians, the different 439 00:31:45,759 --> 00:31:50,039 oligarchs and spies. Igor Danchenko was a Russian spy, Christopher 440 00:31:50,039 --> 00:31:54,000 Steele's big witness. All of this was easily shown. But 441 00:31:54,079 --> 00:31:56,960 yet what did the media do. The media hopped on 442 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,480 the russianclusion narrative and tried to spin it for years. 443 00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:06,119 They wanted Trump, they wanted badly to show that Trump 444 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:12,160 was a Russian puppet and so forth, And as in Watergate, 445 00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:15,640 if they got Trump, it would have been on a 446 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,400 process crime and others. You claim that he's a Russian puppet, 447 00:32:20,039 --> 00:32:22,680 but then you hope he lies and you can get 448 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,440 him on obstruction injustice, as they did with Richard Nixon. 449 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,480 They got him on a little fairly technical obstruction of 450 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:35,640 justice issue. But none of this is possible. My real 451 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,359 point is, none of this is possible if you have 452 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:45,759 an unbiased media. We would not be having these convulsions 453 00:32:45,839 --> 00:32:49,200 in our country. If you had an unbiased meeting, we 454 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,720 wouldn't have had Watergate. Will at least Watergate would have 455 00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:56,119 been a much different scandal. I suppose we wouldn't have 456 00:32:56,119 --> 00:33:00,160 had Russian collusion, at least not in its form. We 457 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:05,680 would have nailed Hillary for a dirty campaign trick and 458 00:33:05,759 --> 00:33:09,319 so forth. But if the truth were known, But the 459 00:33:09,319 --> 00:33:13,119 truth isn't known because the media feels so good about 460 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,960 manufacturing things. So now we get to Biden, and of 461 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,960 course they conceal the truth about Biden. They conceal not 462 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,079 only is dementia, but they concealed the clear proof of 463 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,039 his corruption. I mean, this is a corrupt man that's 464 00:33:27,079 --> 00:33:32,680 in a corrupt, demented man in the Oval office, and 465 00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:37,200 the media is out there cheerleading for him. So it's 466 00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:42,160 really what the media. It allows the politicians to get 467 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,240 away with murder, is what it does if you're on 468 00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:46,960 the right side of the fence. If, on the other hand, 469 00:33:47,119 --> 00:33:51,440 you have the bad fortune of being a conservative. I mean, 470 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,640 think about what happens to George Bush, who was really 471 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,079 George W. Bush Bush too. He was really a hero 472 00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:03,680 in his response to nine to eleven and was just 473 00:34:03,799 --> 00:34:05,720 trashed for it. 474 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,559 Speaker 1: It is interesting to think back on all of that 475 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,920 history and to think about if Donald Trump were in 476 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:21,280 the position in nineteen seventy three, seventy four when you 477 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:26,119 have you know, the members of the leadership in Congress 478 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,119 coming to his office and saying, I'm sorry, mister President, 479 00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:34,400 but you've lost to Congress. I can only imagine Donald 480 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,000 Trump saying, get the hell out of my office. I 481 00:34:37,039 --> 00:34:41,119 got work to do. Richard Nixon took a different path. Now, 482 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,000 you know, there are a lot of different things going on, 483 00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:48,519 but many similarities. You have a president now who simply 484 00:34:48,559 --> 00:34:53,400 doesn't care about and understands what the media is doing, 485 00:34:54,119 --> 00:34:58,880 understands what the left is doing through the media. But 486 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,400 my final question, as it gets back to the judiciary again, 487 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,079 nobody has been held accountable. Relatively few people have been 488 00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:10,320 held accountable for the crimes, the real corruption and crimes 489 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,039 that you just laid out in recent years in this country, 490 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:19,920 and yet the judiciary, an activist judiciary, is using that 491 00:35:20,039 --> 00:35:26,199 branch of government to criminalize the actions of the executive branch. 492 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:27,480 Where do we go from here? 493 00:35:31,079 --> 00:35:36,039 Speaker 2: And back in Watergate, we still were gullible and trusting 494 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,320 and the media reported things we believe the media today, 495 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,280 we now at least have a more cynical, skeptical public 496 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,719 who is not going to buy everything that's sold them. 497 00:35:49,559 --> 00:35:52,400 But where do we go from here? That is a 498 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:58,360 real problem because we still have the judiciary criminalizing the 499 00:35:58,639 --> 00:36:05,800 executive branch. And really Prumpt's fight is a fight that 500 00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:10,519 had been engaged in earlier in our country's history, in 501 00:36:10,559 --> 00:36:16,039 which Thomas Jefferson insisted on certain executive branch rights, so 502 00:36:16,119 --> 00:36:19,960 did Andrew Jackson, so did Abraham Lincoln, and they fought 503 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,599 the good fight. I think this fight is occurring again. 504 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:32,840 To be fair, I'm not sure Trump always fights it judiciously, 505 00:36:33,039 --> 00:36:37,039 but he fights it, and good for him. But there 506 00:36:37,199 --> 00:36:42,639 is this ambit of executive action that we should cheer, 507 00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:45,960 especially when we really have had a foreign invasion. We've 508 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,159 had thirty million people here that shouldn't do and that 509 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,480 is a strain on our welfare system. It's not fair 510 00:36:52,559 --> 00:36:56,039 to the people who really need welfare. We don't have 511 00:36:56,159 --> 00:37:03,719 unlimited resources. We've got tremendous death and the executive should 512 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,159 be able to do something about that. And the judiciary 513 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:11,440 is hamstringing them by having an overly generous view of 514 00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:18,320 due process and its ability to review executive action. There 515 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,840 should be far more judicial difference, and I hope the 516 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,559 Supreme Court starts lecturing the lower courts on judicial deference. 517 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,719 We just can't do this. We can't have an executive 518 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:38,800 that is hampered by constant, constant manacles forged to buy 519 00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:45,719 the judiciary. So it's very interesting. 520 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: At one final point, if I could, you know, put 521 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,880 an exclamation point on what you just said. What about 522 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,079 deference to the American people, the majority of Americans who 523 00:37:57,199 --> 00:38:03,800 voted for this president, this administration, and this majority in Congress. 524 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:05,639 What about that difference? 525 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 2: Well, that's what Andrew Jackson said. I'm the representative of 526 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:16,519 the people more than any other elected official. I represent 527 00:38:16,639 --> 00:38:20,239 the people as a whole in this country, and there 528 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,760 should be some difference to me as I'm trying to 529 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,880 do their will. And that's what's happening here. You have 530 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:31,159 an elected president and we elected him to mainly one 531 00:38:31,199 --> 00:38:33,800 of the main reasons we elected him was to clear 532 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,960 up this immigration problem, which is a serious, serious problem. 533 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,599 And he's doing it the right way by getting the 534 00:38:40,639 --> 00:38:45,159 bad guys the worst guys first, and the judiciary is 535 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:50,000 just trying to hamstring him. And there should be a 536 00:38:50,159 --> 00:38:53,480 sense of that. And it is too bad that our 537 00:38:53,559 --> 00:38:56,639 media is, as you say, you know, in the tank. 538 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,159 Speaker 1: And I wish we would learn from history. We often 539 00:39:01,199 --> 00:39:03,840 fail to do. So you've laid it all out in 540 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,960 your book. I think you can find the antecedents of 541 00:39:08,039 --> 00:39:12,000 that within your book. Very much appreciate your time today. 542 00:39:12,159 --> 00:39:16,960 I always appreciate the historical perspective in looking at that 543 00:39:17,639 --> 00:39:20,639 through that prism and the times in which we live. 544 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,239 Thanks to my guest today, former federal prosecutor John O'Connor, 545 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,880 author of Postgate, How the Washington Post betrayed Deep throat, 546 00:39:29,079 --> 00:39:34,239 covered up Watergate, and began today's partisan advocacy journalism. He's 547 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,400 also host of the Mysteries of Watergate. You've been listening 548 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,079 to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, 549 00:39:41,159 --> 00:39:44,639 Senior Elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be back soon 550 00:39:44,679 --> 00:39:48,719 with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom and anxious 551 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:49,480 for the fray. 552 00:39:57,119 --> 00:40:03,760 Speaker 3: Hear the Fameboys reason, and then they faded away.