Speaker 1: What is up, fellows, sickos and apparently hard woodies. I
am Dana Valley coming at you with the one, the only,
the certified fantabulous, mister Grant Hughes. We are entering the
final stretch post draft of our off season. Look aheads
for every single team. We have three more to get
to as you're watching this, and we're onto the Toronto Raptors.
Fun team to talk about, or maybe a confusing team
to talk about. I should say, Grant before we belly
flop in, how the heck are you?
Speaker 2: I'm confused? Let's we should let's unconfuse ourselves. The Raptors
are as you describe them.
Speaker 1: So sort of the my like just overarching question for
them is what is the endgame? Not overall but this
season they haven't gotten prohibitively expensive, but they're not cheap.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: The brandon Ingram trade sends mixed messages like were they
being opportunistic? But then they extended him for like the
three years and one whatever it ended up being. They
were heavily involved, at least tangentially. And the Kevin Durant
sweepstakes and the roster you look at it has a
lot of talent, but also this overlap and some redundancies.
My gut thing before we dive into their vitals, or
my gut feeling is this is a team that's clearly
trying to accelerate its position in the east. Grant, do
you agree with that or do you think that it's
more open ended than that.
Speaker 2: No, I think I would mostly agree with that, And
you can sort of trace that back to like what
their return package was Frognanobi. Remember, you know they go
quickly and bear it as the headliners, and that's that
wasn't the pick heavy package that maybe they could have
gotten elsewhere. So I think you're right, and I would say, like,
weren't weren't they the team that we used to just
like it became a bit of saying like pick a direction?
Were they? Were they like high on the list of
teams We used to say that about all the time.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if I did. Maybe you
did because I was so project six' nine. Pilled, yeah
but SO i might have been. Hot I'VE i, think.
Speaker 2: Well there was that that was their defining feature for
a long. TIME i felt, like, Yeah, NO i think
they're hard to figure. Out they like you, said they
have considerable, Talent like there's real starting level, talent and
Maybe barnes is quite a bit better than, that and
Maybe ingram even is better than. That but it do
you feel though that it's just like it it's, good not,
great AND i just don't know how it becomes great
other than Maybe Scotty barnes is a high volume forty
percent three point shooter or something like.
Speaker 1: That that's like THE i hate going back to the
shooting for, him but he does so much else well
already that it's like if he hits his pull up
jumper at a more consistent, clip or starts shooting thirty
eight percent on like five three point attempts per game or,
something it completely changes the trajectory of this, team which
if the margin for popping is kind of that, small
it's almost a good. Thing but it's also as you're sitting,
here AND i tend to consider myself As Scotty barnes,
OPTIMIST i don't know that you can, say, oh, like
The raptors clearly have like the best player on what
would be a team that can contend to come out
of The east over the next few, years.
Speaker 2: RIGHT i THINK i think, That, yeah that's the the,
again it's the, good not, great and and and it's
just like how do you how do you change? That and,
look parody is the thing now and especially in The.
East so maybe maybe very good is enough to catch you,
know the right kind of run and you do a Pacers.
Uh but but, like, YEAH i don't, know we should
get into let's get into kind of well the nuts
and bolts.
Speaker 1: Here the final hindsight is twenty twenty thing is The
pelicans giving up that PACER's pick looks. Egregious but when
you trace it back to The raptors giving up that
PACER's pick and the Brandon ingram, trade that's. One that's,
man that's a missed. Opportunity either's a trade asset or
you couldn't have known that was gonna happen To.
Speaker 2: Halliburton but that's what are you gonna?
Speaker 1: Do that's a weird what? If, yeah they're? Vitals did
you want to you want to take us through this team's?
Speaker 2: Vitals happy To? Uh so they are in the tax
uh and just about three and a half million under
the first apron and that those calculations include uh new.
Uh as we discussed on that the draft seemingly ill
Fitting Colin Murray boyles and all the non guaranteed deals
that doesn't include Though Chris bouchees free. Agent, hold do
you want to just start talking About Chris bouchet right
now or should we go through the rest of the vitals?
Speaker 1: Here do you think he gets the max or just
close to?
Speaker 2: IT i, mean if you're the Only canadian to win
a title for The, RAPTORS i say, Yes, uh can
he get the thirty percent? Escalator is that possible if
you're not on a rookie?
Speaker 1: Skill can you include language that gives him forty five
percent of the cap when when he Wins Defensive player
of The.
Speaker 2: Year, yeah or like just a couple all NBAS i don't.
Speaker 1: KNOW i hope we have first time watchers and listeners
have no idea why this is a? Bit.
Speaker 2: YEAH i hope this gets cut and just aggregated and sent.
AROUND i, Mean Chris bouche's people should be all over this.
Speaker 1: Negotiations they're going to bring this clip to, negotiations, like all, Right, well.
Speaker 2: So if it is not the, max The raptors also
have the probably the mini mid level five point seven.
Million they could act that without cutting any. Salary what
do you, Think, well is he back and what do
you think that looks like contract? Wise if he, is
and do THE i, mean, look, hey, Shooting we've will
mention it, Again. Chris one of the Things Chris bousche
can do is, shoot and and The raptors need, that
especially up, Front so like you would think he's someone
they should. Prioritize BUT i just don't know if there's
a number that's going to make sense for everybody.
Speaker 1: Involved doesn't it feel like maybe a two, year like
a one plus one at the midle like the mid,
level so fourteen point one, million and then the set
like the escalator rais or maybe two for thirty or,
something just because that's a very movable, contract especially if it's.
Expiring AND i, think, yeah you could say that they
have other contracts if you look At, barrett if you
look At, perle that are easy to. Move but if
you value those players more long, term you need that
you don't have like That Bruce brown salary slot, anymore,
right or The Kelly olynik of just like these expendable,
players AND i don't Think Chris bouchet is expendable because
you mentioned it's a, bit but it's also you just
meant the front court right, now, like, yeah you would
need his stretch at the four of the.
Speaker 2: Five it's a bit born out of the truth a little.
Bit so's a couple other things. Here they have all
their own future. Firsts they can trade up to four
of those this, summer AND i guess that's five if
you count the guy they just, Drafted Marie. Boyles they,
WERE i, MEAN i. Don't you probably have this on
a slide if you're, watching but like they, Were they've
been mentioned and a lot of you, know the honest
stuff seemed just as real as any honest stuff ever
got so far this, summer and THE kd stuff we mentioned.
Earlier they do seem. Ambitious and so that's WHY i
wonder about someone Like bouchet is it's just, like, WELL
i don't, know are they? Are their sites set on bigger,
things and they'll circle back to someone we believe is
the most important player on the.
Speaker 1: Roster, well so before we get into the extent like extension,
ELIGIBLE i actually think that whether it's him or if
you were able to open up the full mid level
for somebody to use on an outside free, agent wouldn't
there be Val like let's say they're just saving their
powder at this point for you honest maybe next, summer
which they could in theory do having that extra salary
on the books that you attached. To, okay who are
you sending? Out but to make the math work without
having to give up you, know maybe if you're going
to The bucks and you're you wind up giving, them
you prefer to give up draft equity rather than one
of A quickly and A Barn's And i'm just naming
like the more expensive. Players, now if you feel That
ingram And barnes And peerl AND. Rj barrett and all
those guys are just sort of not interchangeable but, expendable
you don't need, that like to Make Chris bouchet a.
Priority BUT i actually think that if you're looking to
make a bigger, trade he can either be using a
mid en trained by himself to match salary or he
kind of gets you over the math hump in one
of those bigger. Deals.
Speaker 2: Yeah and then, again LIKE i feel Like i've had
this thought about a lot of, Players bouchet is kind
of like right in that pocket of WHERE i think
you're gonna have to go mid level or better because
somebody out there is probably gonna offer that or. Something
you know WHAT i, Mean like he's there's a honestly
blood Of. GOD i mean maybe, not but you know
WHAT i mean that that feels like a THOUGHT i
keep having over and over as we get deeper into the.
Speaker 1: Offseason, Yeah i've like, wondered is he, like if he's
just on the open, market do you think that he
falls into the bigger mid level maybe not getting all of,
it but does he get more than the mini mL
E a five point set from another?
Speaker 2: TEAM I i, YEAH i think. So And i'm not
like we're not doing a bit. Anymore LIKE i think
he is like the mid. LEVEL i would would give
me some. Pause the full mid, level but the mini mid,
Levels like, no a guy that can block shots and
make threes as the center is, like that's that's more
than a five point seven million dollar player to.
Speaker 1: Me our first extension candidate for, THEM i would think
is also their most important Ochaiak boji can sign his
rookie stale. Extension these are the max numbers just for,
reference so when we're talking about throwing out other. Numbers
four years and one hundred and ninety point five or
five years and two hundred and forty six point. Seven
they could include the ALL nba escalator that gets him
to five and two ninety six if they want how
Much it's a twofold QUESTION i have for, You, grant
how much do you think he's worth if you were
to sign him to an Extension and are you okay
signing him and then effectively taking him off the table
for trade talks this season because of the way that
the poison pill provision.
Speaker 2: Works so, yeah that is an interesting aspect of it
THAT i hadn't given a ton of. Thought, actually there's
a prediction piece that we're collaborating on that will probably
long since have come out when this episode goes. Up but,
LIKE i think he's someone that the three AND d
seems to be. There he's a little undersized for that,
position so not. Perfect but he's also a guy, that
like was traded eighteen months into his rookie scale contract
for a basically The jazz basically, said we'd just rather
have another first rounder instead of. You so it's like
he's been kind of close to not being out of the,
league but like being someone that the team essentially like
he wasn't the main part of that deal between Utaon
toronto felt more like a throw, in and it felt, like,
oh that's like a low moment for his. STOCK i
say all that to just sort of, contextualize like he
might be someone that's like if you offered him four
for forty or four for forty five or something like
that would feel. Low but he's also been close to
like this could be it or like you, know like
really slipping down into like you're a minimum guy after
this rookie scale deal's. Over SO i do think he
could be, had and If I'm, Toronto i'm very much
interested in like anything up to like four for. Sixty
at this, POINT i don't know if he would if
he would sign, that because if he has another year
like last, year then he probably just beats that number
in restricted free, agency what do you think like where
he's a hard guy to evaluate, though because there's kind
of some competing.
Speaker 1: Factors, yeah It's i'm also not like fully used to
what are the three AND d like plus not much
else guys going to get and parties like would you
say no to twenty million dollars a? Year and that's
so if he's making twenty million in what does this
extension kick in twenty twenty, six twenty twenty, Seven so,
like what is that in terms of the one hundred
and seventy million.
Speaker 2: Dollars that's like twelve.
Speaker 1: Percent, honestly that's PROBABLY i might let it go into
restricted free agency if like the four for sixty maybe
four for, SEVENTY i might just pounce If I'm toronto
anything above. That what we know about restricted free agency
so far is that even teams with cap space mostly
steer clear of. Them SO i would probably be, Like,
okay if you have a good year and you can make,
more we have to match an offer, sheet so be.
It AND i might prefer to keep the trade optionality
open because at four for eighty or even four for seventy,
five it feels like that deal is less likely to
turn into team.
Speaker 2: Friendly it's, YEAH i don't. KNOW i THINK i think
what the MORE i think about, it and what you
MAY i think they lowball him and then he probably says,
no and then you just use restricted free agency as
the tool that it's supposed to. BE i think maybe
that that's my bit my likelyest outcome.
Speaker 1: Here would you before you move. On would you face
four for seventy if that gets him to, sign would
you do that as the raptors or would you prefer
a way FOR rfa at That because you mentioned four for,
SIXTY i THINK i might.
Speaker 2: WAIT i think If I'm, Toronto i'm doing like four
for forty five or four for forty just to see.
Speaker 1: He's been up and down to your, point that's.
Speaker 2: WHAT i, Mean like he. Might that's life changing. Money
you lock in forty million, Dollars LIKE i just, Again
I'm i'm very much persuaded by like he. Was there
was a minute there where it was, LIKE i don't
know if this guy's going to, stick and maybe that's
something that motivates him to take a lower. Offer UH.
Speaker 1: Rj barrett's, EXTENSION i think we can run through the
next two pretty quickly because they feel it's just something
to keep an eye. On but his new, deal he
signed an. EXTENSION a new deal kick in during his
twenty twenty seven twenty twenty eight, season at which time
he'd be age twenty. Seven as of right, now he
can sign for up the three years and one hundred
and forty three point three million, dollars which would take
him through two thousand and thirty two and thirty. One
this doesn't Like i'd be shocked if he got an.
EXTENSION i don't know where you're. At maybe the numbers.
Lower this is just the max that they could offer.
Him maybe it's lower than, That BUT i don't know
what you would want that Would, Okay, yeah we want
to be in THE. Rj barrett business for the next half.
Speaker 2: Decade, RIGHT i don't think he's the caliber player you
do that, for especially now with the in the apron,
era AND i, think, like, what how bad is it
if he's almost a thirty million dollar expiring salary in
twenty six twenty, Seven, LIKE i don't feel like that's
a bad outcome if you're The.
Speaker 1: Raptors and then if he pops this year for some,
reason under whatever context you want to frame it, as
you could just extend him then like on a forty year,
extension he probably still signs. It, like looking at what
the money is annually, HERE i don't think He's you're
in danger of seeing him price himself out of extension.
Speaker 2: Talks, no, RIGHT i.
Speaker 1: Agree Yakub peertl also falls under this as, well with
a little rogue like yellow thing behind. HIM i don't
know WHAT i did there YEARS i don't. Know, YEAH
i don't know WHAT i. Did so he can extend
for as A so he kind of has a couple
options because he does have that player option at the
end of his deal That barrett. Doesn't soas of right,
now you could extend him for three years an eighty
eight point five, million then that would kick in during
twenty twenty seven twenty. Eight but if he declines his
player option for twenty six twenty, seven you could extend
him for four years and one hundred and twenty two
point three. Million, AGAIN i don't think he should sign
an extend like his an extension like for the full.
Years i'm not saying they have to give him the
max here would take him like through his age thirty
four season. POTENTIALLY i just they seem very married To Yaka.
Purl they didn't want to include him For Kevin. Durant
they gave up what was that the number eight pick
to get him, back and there's been like some rumblings
that they might just extend. Him to. Me i'm just just, wait, Guys,
like let's see what this roster look. Likes together before
you decide. That, yakob WHO'S i want to make it,
clear is very, good very, useful especially on. Offense BUT
i think there's gonna maybe come a point where they
need a different look at.
Speaker 2: Center, defensively he's A he's kind of another example of
the good not great issue here where it's like you're
fine If Yaka pearl is your starting, center you're probably
not fine if you're paying. Him what we're talking like
those max numbers we have up, there that's, LIKE i
DON'T i don't know what kind of roster you're building
out if you're maxing even you, know max is LIKE
a means fifty different. Things but Like purl is just
not someone that can make a huge chunk and you'll
be a very good, team you. Know if that's an,
Oversimplification but that's kind of Where i'm out on.
Speaker 1: It is there any number for him where where if
he was Like i'll sign for three and forty, five
does that what's the? Fight?
Speaker 2: Uh, Yeah oh, YEAH i think that'd be fine because
that's a LOWER i, mean that's less than he's making
now and next year and the CAP's going, up So i'm.
GOOD i, mean, also you've got his age thirty four
season in twenty nine to, thirty so this is coming
up his age thirty LIKE i this, Season so why
are we, like we must assume that he's going to
have some decline in there, Too and he's not a
guy that can, lose you, know half a step and
still be, like, oh he's. Great that's not where.
Speaker 1: He would you do it for net neutral money where
it's like he still wants the nineteen to five per
year for let's say three with.
Speaker 2: The cap going, up you could probably talk me into,
that just just because it really is like less, money you,
know relative to how much you're allowed to. Spend But
i'm not Going i'm not giving him a, RAISE i don't.
Think maybe that's the simplest way to put.
Speaker 1: It if the past is, prologued, though they probably are
going to extend him and give him a raise as.
Speaker 2: Well they do really like, HIM i, mean but he
seemed like a, great like locker room. GUY i guess
MAYBE i made. Stuff we don't.
Speaker 1: Know of the three primary extension eligible, players Ak, Bajie,
perdle And, barrett who do you think is most likely
to get?
Speaker 2: One Probably perdle just because he's the.
Speaker 1: Guy logic would dictate it's Ak bajie just because the
rookie scale, stuff but it feels like it would Be pertle.
Speaker 2: Too, Right he's never getting. Away they did it, once not,
again all.
Speaker 1: Right so now we get into just kind of like
the meat and potatoes of their. Offseason and there are
some notes on screen if you're, watching what do, you
Mister Grant hughes view as their single biggest need it.
Speaker 2: It has to be, Shooting And i'm open to the,
idea LIKE i joked about, it BUT i Think barnes
can be, better even though that's like not the thing
you have him out there to do as like option,
one AND i, Think, ingram maybe the volume will be there,
FINALLY i don't, know maybe maybe after so many nights
it was last, year, right well that's WHAT i mean it, Was,
yeah it. Was it was a career. HIGH i forget
what the number, was maybe close to six attempts a,
game JUST i don't have my proprietary three point attempts
per game up in front of, me but for memory
serves it. Was it was more than he'd ever shot
and and like, quickly my there's there's like, upside like
Maybe Grady dick just you, know in addition to some
of the playmaking flashes we saw like two off seasons,
ago is is just gonna be a knock down. Guy
there's ways, Forward BUT i still am just like you
need someone out there maybe and Maybe agbaji like replicates
what he. Did it's still in need until it isn't
like maybe this will you know next next summer will
have a different, take but that's really. It and then
secondarily like are we like what do you think about
the playmaking Between quickly And? Barnes are We are we good?
There because that like that's part that's related to the
shooting issue, too in kind of in a can you
can you generate enough good ones for your subpar shooters
to just you know be more productive than they the
percentages suggest that's kind of a related.
Speaker 1: THING I i still feel like they could maybe use
like a floor general, type not in the starting, lineup
but just to manage the game when you're not gonna
have these multiple ball. Handlers i'm, like if you're gonna
start to Stagger ingram And barnes And barrett And, quickly
you could use just sort of a you, know the
names that'll come up will be Like Tyas jones or
just someone to come in and manage the. Game BUT
i also recognize that like having a bunch of on
ball decision makers who maybe AREN'T a plus, passers but
they're good, enough like you can figure out the Like,
Oh Oklahoma city is a perfect, example they don't have
and their offense goes through you, know these peaks and.
Valleys but Like Shake, Eiler alexander's fantastic and he's better
as a playmaker THAN i think anyone on The, raptors
but they don't have like an a plus plus passer
on the rotation right.
Speaker 2: Now, YEAH i. AGREE i would say that, though like
The raptors defense could be a, strength but it isn't
gonna be what The thunders. Was and so if you
do have those playmaking issues where it's like point to
the really really great passer on The raptors, roster like
just like you can't really point to that person on The,
thunders it matters more if your offense is is hamstrung
in that, way if your defense isn't like the greatest
of all. Time, so LIKE i do think they just.
DON'T i, mean news, flash The rappers don't have the
margin for error that the thunder do. Offensively SO i
know you don't like me to break, news BUT i just.
Speaker 1: Did it also feels like the other thing, too they
could use like better rim, protection just because right now
you're looking At perdle just as a rim. Protector he
had those really good seasons In San, antonio but since
then it has fallen. Off do you believe in Mog
bo would like take any of. That There's Chris bouchet
if you bring them. BACK i know they Have Colin
Murray boyles, now but it just feels like they could
use a reserve big at. LEAST i, Mean i'd actually
prefer to come from the starting, center to be, Honest
but that's another need that they and ideally you would
figure out a way to check that box in one
BUT i don't. Know you, know are you Getting Al
horford Or Brook lopez Or Miles turner and free? Agency probably.
Speaker 2: Not, yeah we already hit on the game manager. Guard,
WELL i feel, like you know we're doing needs, here
but like there is kind of there's quite a bit
to like, here just because they're gonna have like plus
players pretty deep down the. Rotation just in, GENERAL i
just again we're. Talking if we're talking, CEILING i just
DON'T i don't know how high that.
Speaker 1: IS i think if you had to isolate it, too
like this is something they need to, do because you're,
right they are deep and just like If Grady dick
continues to get, better if If jamal shed gets, better
maybe you hit On Jacoby. WALTER i think what they need,
though is of all the. PLAYERS i think of every
single player we've, Mentioned Akbaji barnes like quickly is the
most bankable shooter on this, team and you might have
like Maybe Brandon ingram has sort of a high floor
and then questionable ceiling in that. DEPARTMENT i think they
just need to come in, here like get someone to
come in here and even if he's not one of
your top six, guys just can get up threes and make,
threes like can you Get, yeah they can't Get Malik.
Beasley they're not gonna bring Back Gary. Trent they can't
afford him, anyway probably Like sam Or Luke, canard like
just taking a flyer On Lindy. Waters it feels like
again because as you, mentioned they have so much. Talent
i'm open to the idea that maybe this team can
just be. Better and one of my questions, here like
unless you would just have any other, names like to see.
That LIKE i GUESS i have two. Questions it starts
with before getting into will they be involved in a big?
Trade is do you think people are, overthinking including, us
the redundancies on this roster when you're looking at The,
barns The, barrett The pearle of it all in terms
of the space that they all want to.
Speaker 2: Occupy, NO i. DON'T i. DON'T i think that's a real.
Issue that is again like all the, talent the talent,
is it's a high level of. Talent the fit is not,
great especially now that you're Introducing Murray, boyles, who LIKE
i know he's a rookie and like he wasn't gonna
be odds are he wasn't gonna be a helpful player,
anyway at least this. Year but like, that just there's
a lot of guys that occupy the same space and
it's gonna be difficult to sort of create some room to,
BREATHE i think unless something. Changes AND i also think
the fact that they have been you want to be,
ambitious but the fact that they've been involved in talks
of regarding like big name players suggest that they kind
of also think, that, like you, know as, CONSTRUCTED i
don't know how if this is gonna, work. RIGHT i don't.
Know Maybe i'm reading too much into, that BUT i
don't think that's an unfair conclusion to jump.
Speaker 1: To, no not at. All and SO i guess my
question to you, is let's just assume we KNOW kd
is now off the. Table let's Say yiannis is off the.
Table is there any sort of star that could technically
become available that would move you as The raptors to
think again about all, right, yeah looking at future pick
some of these salaries, HERE i can start throwing names at, you, like,
so as an, example one would be if he becomes,
available which the way this team is, Operating i'm assuming
Not Trey, Young like that's not a Name i'm looking.
At but what, if, again doesn't look like he's gonna come,
Available like what If LaMelo ball.
Speaker 2: That was gonna because then you're talking about the volume
shooting and then like the floor general aspect of, it
like jaw was another, name but like there's that's not reason. Shooting,
YEAH i don't think that's the right way to go
and then like you can't really assuming quickly would probably
be going. Out BUT i don't like those two. Together
what ABOUT i don't.
Speaker 1: Know Kobe white, team that's a pretty easy salary to Mat.
Speaker 2: Kobe white's gonna be the guy that we go, like,
well if that top tier is not, there he'd be pretty.
GOOD i think he's gonna fit a. Lot he's, Good,
well he'll come up more than once probably and it already. Has,
YEAH i Like Kobe white. There i'm trying to, think,
like what About Derek? White do you, Know I'm i'm
happy to Send Derek white do.
Speaker 1: It off of everything that they need, though because that's
not an all in. Trade but that's, oh you've given
up the equivalent of multiple first round picks and a
salary at that.
Speaker 2: Point, no but he is just purely additive because he
would give you the spacing and he has proved to
be someone that will he can get them up at
high volume if that's what you want him to. DO
i don't know if that's the best use Of Derek.
White he is not going to be the guy that
runs lots and lots of pick and rolls like. That
you're you, know is in control of the, OFFENSE i don't,
think but, yeah like it's a it's a pretty small,
crop right Like Trey Young LaMelo or like even like
maybe maybe available types that those teams just kind of
signaled that, no, right like, right you, know, yeah, YEAH
i don't like would they be if for some reason
the heat, Pivot like are they A Tyler hero?
Speaker 1: Team is that too? Redundant With Emmanuel? QUICKLY i mean you?
Speaker 2: Could you know the issue with him is he's gonna
get targeted a, lot AND i guess you've got some
of the defensive infrastructure to mitigate. That is he someone
that you want like at the controls all the? TIME
i know he had a great scoring, season BUT i
don't know if he's the guy.
Speaker 1: EITHER i think if you're Keeping barnes And, quickly like
you just have enough of. That if you're Adding, HERO
i would feel better about, That like If, ingram whether
he's still there or, Not LIKE i feel better about
that passing trio THAN i Do Ingram Quickly barns if
that that's more of a HOW i feel About ingram.
Type they also could like Star, bit like what If
Karl Anthony towns was available that's a lot of, money
but for what this team could use on.
Speaker 2: OFFENSE i, mean between him And, ingram do we have
the two guys that we've begged to shoot more threes
on the same over the last few, years on the same, roster,
RIGHT i, mean the theory of Carl oft would make, sense, like,
oh he's gonna space the floor like so different From
perdole in almost every. Way but if he's like you
just have to like in the trade, call there has
to be like a caveat, that like you must shoot
a threes a game or this is rescinded forever and
you have to go play in The philippines like this
SOMETHING i don't.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah That's do you have any any other names
that are worth talking?
Speaker 2: Like it feels like probably would be ONE i would
look at pretty. Hard we already talked about maxing him,
Out but, YEAH i think IF i were, Them i'm
still trying to improve on the, margins AND i already
see myself talking myself into this, team like when we
go back and do the auction like the as currently,
constructed But i'm just trying to improve like the, shooting
the spacing on the, margins maybe getting a better protect
like no one that breaks the bank And i'm kind
of saving my ad like because they have a lot
of assets and movable. SALARY i am waiting for that
next no brainer guy to become, Avent like what if
it's what if it's the honest what if It's Jaron Jackson.
JUNIOR i know the rebounding would be pretty, bad but
like he would make a lot of sense on this.
Team it just feels like that's the route they should.
Go and maybe they were trying to be more opportunistic
by being involved For Kevin, DURANT i, mean look at
what he ultimately went. For maybe they thought that they
could get him for number nine And barrett and like
other salaries they didn't. Want although the structure of any
deal like almost felt like it had to be two
of their core salaries for, Them and it makes me
wonder why They maybe they were and we didn't hear about.
It they should have been in On Desmond baine because
you could put together something similar to What orlando. DID i,
mean if you're willing to put those picks on the,
TABLE i Think toronto might be less willing to give
up unprotected in the future Than orlando Because orlando's got
a little bit more of a track. Record but Like
bain is someone that there's your three point volume that
LIKE i and he can actually like would he be
the best pick and roll playmaker on the, team it'd be, Close.
Speaker 1: Like they they don't have the nas read would make
a lot of sense here and assigned in, trade but
they just then you got to get onto the first,
apron WHICH i guess is somewhat doable for. Them that'd
be an interesting name if they could get, him and
that shouldn't cost you. Everything what about this is an everything?
GUY i don't know if he does enough of, defensively,
sure but the rim protection in the space that like Bam,
adebayo like if the heat just completely, pivot he.
Speaker 2: WOULD i think he's also six foot.
Speaker 1: Nine he feels like A toronto, player, right he.
Speaker 2: Does feel like A toronto. Player, yeah you.
Speaker 1: Have anything else on this team out? THERE i think
they have the chance to be really interesting this, offseason
but there they are sufficiently confusing as.
Speaker 2: Hell, yeah they need a you know, what we haven't
tried this one out. YET i think they need a
player that's better than anyone they currently, have and that's
to like really make. Noise and, uh that's why they
were on The durant And giannis trail for a minute,
there BECAUSE i think they know that.
Speaker 1: We are on to The New Orleans pella can't help
themselves team of just doing things that feel self destructive or.
POINTLESS i, don't, Man, grant we have so much to
get to with this, Team so first and, foremost how
the heck are?
Speaker 2: You i'm feeling real. Glad we JUST i don't know
why left The pelicans for, now because there's quite a
bit more to talk about post draft that we should get.
Speaker 1: Into so this team is SENDING i guess not mixed,
messages But i'll say curious. MESSAGES i don't know what they're,
doing and that was kind of true, beforehand AND i
feel worse about it because it doesn't seem like they
know what they're doing or understand where they are in The.
West they already TRADED. Cj McCollum And Kelly olenik to
get Back Sadik bay And Jordan, poole so they just
have this have you noticed they have like this weird
trend of we're gonna get a little bit cheaper in
the internal adding off long term money that to feel
like they constantly make those types of.
Speaker 2: Trades it's a, Strategy, dan you know it's a bit
of a. Zag, yeah what did you before we go any?
DEEPER i know we hated what they did On draft?
Night what did you think just of the McCollum pool?
TRADE i, like in, you what did it's signal to?
Speaker 1: You If Jordan poole was on an expiring, CONTRACT i
would get it more because there's just more shake and
wiggle and more passing than maybe at least compared to
lasting Than chee. McCollum and With Dejonta murray, out that
would make a lot of. Sense but like he has
the extra year on his deal and over the past
what four, seasons he's had two good. Ones, Yeah and
so it just felt like a very weird. Move where
did you end up on? That so that.
Speaker 2: The REASON i asked is BECAUSE i hate it more
after the draft stuff that we really didn't, like because
it feels, like, oh you're just kind of throwing away
years and. Dollars like, SO i think there's a good
argument That pool will just be a better player than
McCollum this coming season at like just given their, ages
given like maybe there will be more talent Around pool
than he had In. WASHINGTON i feel like that's like
just by, default well and, well The pelicans be. Healthy
if they're, healthy if, healthy giant asterisk at the top
of the, screen if healthy for everything we. Say but
so so that was like that didn't really bother. Me it's, like, well,
OKAY i first liked. It liked it more For washington,
obviously just because you're cutting that year off of, salary
and then you move on From, pool who has all
of my general like unseeriousness. Questions, Uh but for for The,
PELICANS i thought it was. Okay it was like a decent.
Gamble Maybe pool has another level to get. To he's,
younger like he's a more dynamic three point, shooter like
all that stuff made it. Okay but then as just
a part as it became clear that that was part
of a larger set of transactions that are sort of
signaling what this team thinks it is and what it
thinks about timelines and patients and just general LIKE i don't, know,
uh being. Careful it just was trying to think of
like a better phrase for, that like, Discretion uh if
in it now feels, like, oh that's. You guys are
just kind of making mistakes left and. Right you. Don't
it's what you think about yourself is not what you
should be thinking about.
Speaker 1: Yourself and It's, look this isn't a shot At Derek,
queen WHO i have questions Because i've seen, him like
basically he's a cross Between Greg Greg munroe And nicole
Jokicch and that's just, LIKE i don't, know you talk
about weird range of. Outcomes if you believe in the
jump shot like that he can space the, floor the
passing is. Insane it's like very interesting. Player but The
Jordan poole acquisition becomes a little bit more curious when
you Have jeremiah fears right because The Jontai murray's gonna come. Back,
additionally the move THAT i think is, inexplicable, unforgivable however
you want to frame, it is giving up so number
twenty three then an unprotected, first which will end up
being more favorable Of New orleans Or milwaukee next. Summer
you cannot even if you think The bucks are gonna be,
good Because giannis is still there as The New Orleans
pelicans who have Watched Zion williamson season in and season
out miss a whole bunch of. TIMES i even, like
you might just send out the number seven pick like, that.
Speaker 2: You might send out the number one pick right like
this is.
Speaker 1: Sorry and you did it to get like that type
of upside on a pick to get the number ten.
Pick it just doesn't make any type of, Sense like,
You Derek queen needs to basically become a superstar.
Speaker 2: If they had reached For queen at seven instead Of
fears because you've Got pool in the bag, Already like
that would be, risky but do that do that instead,
right like and keep and keep your your twenty six
on like that is just like IF i was trying
to think, of like, okay so is there a way to, spin, like,
well now we can't tank as a, positive LIKE i
guess as a fan, base like maybe they're, like, okay
they're going for. It but it reminds me of like
my freshman year of, COLLEGE i hate math AND i
signed up for a math class that was at eight a.
M AND i was, like, well Now i'm gonna have
to go because other like BECAUSE i don't, know like
that was my logic at the. TIME i don't know
and saying it out loud is like that doesn't Because
i'm gonna skip. It if it's, otherwise Like i'm gonna
have to get, Up i'm gonna have to. Go it
won't be an. Option now it's, like, well we can't.
Tank we gave up this. Pick we're gonna have to play.
It like it's just like you've just removed the safety
net and like you've fallen off the trapeze like several
times in the most in the recent, Years AND i
just like don't understand what the logic could possibly be
on that you could get if he's your, guy take
him at, Seven, LIKE i just, don't, like what are we?
Speaker 1: DOING i maybe it works, out but like we can
reasonably assume that maybe The bucks will be like late,
teens early, twenties what is the pathway in the west
for the pel Like zion has to remain healthy and then,
presumably though aren't you playing a bunch Of Derek queen
and jeremih like these rookies that will be on developmental?
Curves that is still such a wild. Transaction and to be,
fair the off season isn't. Done BUT i know you
said you hate. Math we're gonna go through some cap
vitals for them entering the off. Season, now did you
want to take us through?
Speaker 2: Them, Yeah so they should be a little more than
eight million dollars below the. Tax that's sixteen million below
the first apron which does Include Jeremih fears And Derek queen's,
contracts does Include Bruce. BROWN i should annunciate doesn't Include Bruce.
Brown they can technically use the bigger mid, level the
full fourteen point one, million but they're unlikely to enter the.
Tacks they don't do. That it would be a shock
if they, did although they they've done some shocking things so.
Speaker 1: Far imagine if this is the team they go into
the tax.
Speaker 2: For, right they're, like this is the one we believe in,
It like we Love Trey murphy And Herb jones as
much as the next. Guys and also we've been on
the record of Like zion's really spectacular when he's. Healthy
it's still The, West like what are we? Doing just
good luck. Fellas they can trade up to three first
after The queen, Deal so that's twenty, eight thirty and thirty.
Speaker 1: TWO i just have one word of, advice don't don't
up any of those. PIGS i, mean.
Speaker 2: Like Joe jumars is in charge Now Troy weaver is
making some. Decisions if you were concerned at those names
being put in, charge like, initially what are you thinking
now that that that these transactions have taken? Place like
are you like it's? Unbelievable how how much more TERRIFIED
i would? Be just, like this is the worst case.
Outcome it's it's. All it's like it's happening.
Speaker 1: Already what IT'S i just don't. Understand so let's throw
away the trade that that, like or the the unprotected
nature of the. Pick how do, you as The, pelicans
when you've seen the downside of your best player In
zioni Li umpson in his, health you just don't have
a first round pick next? Year how do you let?
That that's insane to?
Speaker 2: Me do you like do you think do you think
they went To atlanta and, said like we'd like the top,
four top five lottery protect this pick In atlanta's like
no unprotected or no.
Speaker 1: Deal like first of, all the fact that Bans sal
wasn't hired AND i apologize IF i butchered the pronunciation last,
name that he just wasn't hired immediately as a lead
basketball executive In. Atlanta remember there was a reporting that
they're looking for someone over, him and they're still looking
for someone over. Him this dude is clearly a genius
and he deserves another raise and promotion.
Speaker 2: Immediately, yeah pult him in charge of like the state
Of georgia or. Something clearly he's got to figure it.
Speaker 1: Out this isn't even a trade that The kings would have.
MADE i don't even think The bulls would have made.
It like do you know how bad that?
Speaker 2: IS i, mean it just IT'S i don't. Know maybe
they were, like, Hey orlando traded too unprotected two unprotected future,
first like what's one and we're gonna get our. Guy
we're gonna move ten. SPOTS i JUST i don't know
what the precedent is for this. One we should have
we should have looked around to, see, like what's the
most someone's given up to move up ten?
Speaker 1: Spots was it probably like the False tatum, deal, right
that was like two. Spots, well so you're looking at
the specific, jump, okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah or just like a big jump like but also
like to move up to. Thirteen it's not like it's
not like you're moving up to two because it's a
two player. Draft we got to get too like that
if you if you, would if there, WERE i would
be less shocked if there had been a trade involving
an unprotected first to move up to like three from you,
KNOW i don't, know fifteen or sixteen like the if
The thunder or that's a bad example because they're unprotected
first or worthless to other. Teams but like The pelicans,
SPECIFICALLY i don't. KNOW i, mean we're just circling, around
LIKE i Just i'm just struggling to explain.
Speaker 1: This the other QUESTION i had Is i'm assuming they
were just sure that he wasn't gonna drop any, Lower
like you couldn't have gotten number fifteen from, them because
were The hawks of The spurs gonna Take And i'm,
ASSUMING i, MEAN i guess negotiating With Sam presty would
probably be. Worse do we want The pelicans doing? That
But i'm just curious as to which team was gonna
Take Derek queen BECAUSE i don't know that Maybe atlanta
was going to and this offer just rolled in on
like this is too good for us to pass. Up i's,
like you couldn't you have just aimed a little bit,
lower rather than trying to move up ten spots and
maybe not giving up an unprotected twenty twenty six first
route back or.
Speaker 2: Yeah again or again it would have been. Dumb but
take him at seven and you still have your twenty
six first and like maybe you get fears at. THIRTEEN
i don't, know like maybe or not thirty it wouldn't
have had, thirteen but like maybe you'd make another trade
at some somehow where you end up with Fears and,
honestly LIKE i don't with pool on, board like you,
could you'd have been fine without without. Fears like where
did You coucionis? Go didn't he pick like twentieth or
something like move up a couple spots and get him
if you need a.
Speaker 1: Card The Brooklyn nets kept all five of their, picks
like you couldn't have gotten one of those picks of
like some like just taking a taking a massive swing
and rather than giving up the unprotected twenty. Six let's
talk some extensions before we get into needs and what
the rest of the off season might look. LIKE i
think this guy is the most important. One Herb jones
is extension. Eligible he can sign for up to three
years and sixty seven point eight million that would kick
in during twenty seven to twenty, eight his age twenty nine,
season and then run through twenty twenty, nine twenty and.
Thirty he could just wait for a longer deal next
summer where he would be eligible for four, years AND
i think it'd be about ninety three point four, Million
so that would kick the can, Down like the extension
would kick in at the same, time but you would
have him under contract for a year. Longer just for,
context his max's salary and an extension whether he signs
in year one of the, extension whether he signs it
this summer or next, summer is twenty point nine, million
which is eleven point one percent of the salary. Cap
and so If i'm The pelicans, GRANT i Am i'm
letting him choose his own. Adventure, well not, Really i'm
offering him this. Extension If i'm Herb, jones AM i taking?
Speaker 2: IT? I, well he the only reason is because he
had a major injury and missed a ton of time last,
year and he's, LIKE i gotta lock this. Up but
If i'm, Him i'm, like this isn't enough for. Me
like neither of these are, like maybe things change if
he has a bad year and he like he gets
the same offer at the end of next. Season, uh
but even, then it's Like i'm A i'm a starting
wing that has shown some offense And i'm one of
the best defensive players in the. League like this isn't
enough and that's JUST i don't know how you can't change.
Speaker 1: That now it becomes a question for The pelicans of
let's say they keep him and then you can offer
four and ninety three the following. Summer is that enough
to get? Him AND i think the answer could still
reasonably be.
Speaker 2: No, yeah it depends on what kind of year he,
Has and then like that obviously would well if if
he has a terrible, year is that offer, even like
what what would have to happen for that offer to
for The pelicans to be, like oh, no that's that's
too much for. Him something.
Speaker 1: Bad so if you're The pelicans and he turns down
the three year extension this, summer WHICH i think he,
should maybe he doesn't BECAUSE i feel like the like
the mid end type of free agent to b's are
still trying to figure out the lay of the land
and how they're going to spend their. Money if he says,
NO i think you have to trade him as The,
pelicans BECAUSE i can't RISK i know we're two years.
Out maybe you see how this and goes and figure
it out the trade. Time but you already gave him
control of your twenty six, picks so we know in
theory they're not going to trade. Him but like you
have to have a serious discussion about. That if he
says no to this, extension, right, well it's it's a
it's a.
Speaker 2: Little bit like The Kobe White Io De Sun mu
like situation we've been talking about with The bulls foreverywhere
like those were great deals that they. Signed those guys
too are too small to, extend so we have to
talk about trading those. Guys same exact situation, HERE i.
THINK i, Mean white's a really good, player just very.
Different but herb is in that same level of, like,
yeah you you a good. Job you signed him to
a really cheap, deal and now you might be forced
to move him or lose him for, nothing like we
got to figure then we got to figure that one
out in THE cbo because.
Speaker 1: It almost looks they, do because it almost looks better
like let's Use io as an. Example so if your,
average if your salary and an extension is going to
check in under like the league average for that, year
you can just extend for one hundred and forty percent
of the average annual salary like the league average. Salary
so like For, io yeah he might be worth, more
but coming off the salary he's making, now which is under,
EIGHT i think he can sign for close to like
four years and ninety million if that was the Deal
Herb jones was on. Too that just seems like a
far bigger jump than when you're, okay Like i'm already
in the mid, teens SO i don't have like, so,
yes this extension is worth, more but it doesn't seem
like per, Year but it doesn't seem like as big
of a jump because so it's it almost put about
hoof in The pelican's if he was even, cheaper even
though would have been less, money because the optics of,
wow look at how much extra money this is?
Speaker 2: It? Right, yeah that's a good. POINT i predict he.
Speaker 1: Won't sign the. Extension what about.
Speaker 2: YOU i would be very surprised if he.
Speaker 1: Did AND i, look at this, point you probably can't
move him because you're trying to be, good. Right Jordan
poole's extension l's well grant how that came back around
pretty quickly as of right now because of the extension,
rules since he was just, traded even though it hasn't been.
FINALIZED i think one hundred and five percent is the
max Rays so he could get three years and one
hundred and sixteen million about year one salary in that
deal thirty five point seven that is nineteen point one
percent of the. Cap if he waits six, months he
could actually sign four three years and one hundred and
fifty four plus. Million that year one salary's forty seven
point seven, million that's twenty five point four percent of the.
Cap either deal would kick in during twenty twenty seven
twenty twenty, eight when he's only aged twenty. Eight i'm
only including this because, one we need stuff to talk,
about but, TOO i don't know what The pelicans are.
Like did they acquire him with the intention of exp
LIKE i don't think he would get the three years
and one hundred and fifty million dollar. Number if he,
Will i'd be shocked if they do that. AGAIN i have.
Speaker 2: Questions no, WAY i think even the three to one.
Fifteen i'm Not i'm not offering him an. Extension i'll
just like blow the lid off now this. Year if
he has a great season this, year then we can
we can talk about. IT i just think in, GENERAL
i WOULD i would expect to see fewer, players fewer
non super duper stars getting extensions with two years left
on their. DEALS i just think like they go bad too,
often and teams are gonna BE i think correctly too
scared off by like the worst outcomes of those types
of extensions for the wrong like tier of player that,
like And pool is just someone you've got him under
guaranteed contract for two full, Seasons LIKE i JUST i
think you need to use that year for more, information
especially for The. Pelicans and it's kind of like this
will be one OF i don't, know Like washington is
just a different, Situation like this will be the first
time he's really IN i, Mean zion's, there but like
in a major role on a team that's trying to be. Good,
uh because he was in such a smaller role with The.
Warriors Like i'm gonna need to see something Before i'm.
Not i'm just not talking extension this.
Speaker 1: Year it would have to be like a three, years like,
yeah like give me three years and sixty and then
it's like well like, that, yeah, yeah something like. That
it's but, yeah you haven't he hasn't played for your team,
yet so, like, YEAH i think you could make he Said,
washington even if they were trying to be. Good you
don't extend him off of last season alone and The
pelicans not having a sample with, Him it'd be. Bonkers,
uh there's no other like super notable extension cadaites me
to talk. About so let's get into big needs. Questions
where where do you want to take this with? It
because look, THIS i think this you, said it's good
that we waited this entire structure for us and commentary
would have looked and sounded completely different had the draft
night trades specifically never. Happened where do you want to
go with?
Speaker 2: THIS i, MEAN i Think i'm tempted always to start
With zion and the challenges that building a team around him.
Presents this is just you can recycle this from like
any time we've talked about him over the, years where
you have to put very specific player types around, him
and then his unavailability makes it hard to have those
players like play the bulk of the minutes when he's
not out, there because it's like they're kind of all
built to play like off of a unique skill set
that he, has so that manifests in the first THING
i think we talked about as the, playmaking because If
zion is not out, there then the offense is running
Through Jordan poole And derek queen to and or other
Rookie Jeremiah, fears who is like an exciting young. Player
but it's just, like if you're trying to win this,
year you cannot put the ball in the hands of
a rookie point guard whose decision making is if he
and he can't shoot like that's he would have been
a phenomenal tank commander like In. Brooklyn if you want
to just give him thirty eight minutes and let him,
grow maybe he'll become, great but he's gonna be. Damaging so,
YEAH i think the playmaking is a. Problem and that's
to say like they have some real. Strengths, otherwise we
haven't talked About Trey murphy And Herb jones on the,
wing for, example very.
Speaker 1: Much their wing rotation can still be too and like
If murray comes back this. Season, like there's a lot
of interesting perimeter stuff with this, Team BUT i, like
do they have enough defense on the, Roster, like because
if you're gonna Play zion And queen, together you need
those other three players on the court to be WHAT
i would say eighty fifth percentile. Defenders Herb jones. Done
if you want to Throw Jose alvarado mix that, in okay.
DONE i don't know If Trey murphy's there, yet but
he becomes important then to the spacing Because Herb jones
And Jose varado are both questionable. Shooters there's like and,
look they Have Eves, mecie who's like kind of more
of the traditional big, look AND i thought him And
zion figured out a lot of stuff together last. YEAR i,
like you're You're Willie. Green what is your Best, like
what is the five man unit you were turning to
leaning on the hardest as of right?
Speaker 2: Now, well your your definites Are, Zion, Murphy HERB i
GUESS mesi and then a. Pool RIGHT i think is
that probably you're you're you're starting five.
Speaker 1: And maybe you're.
Speaker 2: Closing maybe you close With zion at, CENTER i don't,
Know and you put another who's who else are you
putting out? There because it's like if IT'S i just
don't Like queen And zion together at, all but you
almost have to play them together at some, point so.
Speaker 1: We try, it, right which is like that's why trading
the pick, though is also bonkers because that works like
counter to we need to try this out even though
it might not look. Good at the first sign of
it not, working you bail out BECAUSE i was, like
we don't own our own, pick like we need to.
Speaker 2: WIN i, mean, also if you're if you're trying to
win and you need to, win you're not starting or
closing With queen Or fears on the. COURT i. DON'T
i don't, THINK i.
Speaker 1: Like right unless there's Another, again the off season isn't.
Over it hasn't even technically, started like the league year
has not reset, yet so there's other moves they could.
Make but LIKE i even find, myself do you think
that they have enough shooting now when you Have? Pool
there's question marks With fears And, queen though you Have.
MURPHY i, mean you do Have Jordan, hawkins but like
his efficiency has been all over the place to like
be where they're at and still a question to be, like,
oh do they have enough shooting Around zion is?
Speaker 2: Weird, Yeah murphy is the only guy That I'm i'm
just like pencil him. IN i, mean he is a
plus shooter that like actually bends the defense POOL i
think his self created, threes like, yeah that might be,
there that might be. There and Then. HAWKINS i still
like What hawkins can. Do he's just if you play
him then you have massive, defense like massive defensive. Questions
if you play him with, pool forget, It like that's
just that's really hard to make it.
Speaker 1: Work it feels like if you had to dilute this
down to an archetype of, player it feels like they
might need unless you think it's someone in the front
court who's Not queen Or mec that you believe is
a better fit next To zion on that front, line
or it needs to be sort of this hybrid like
wing player who's you, know like a just as an,
example we just talked about him with The, raptors just
like In o Chaiak, baji just to come in eat
innings and not torpedo your defense or your. Offense it
feels like they need more of those players With i'll,
say here's the best, way like the simplified way of saying.
It they need more players that have fewer glaring.
Speaker 2: Weaknesses, yeah they got a lot of one way guys
or guys that are, like, well definitely give you this singular,
skill but you're gonna have to make up for his
deficiencies in these like four other. Areas that's just that's
a tough thing to. Juggle and also that is just
not the mark of a team that is, gonna, LIKE
i don't, know there's not gonna win fifty games or,
whatever which it's certainly more in danger of making that
pick that they owe very very high than they are
of really having it figured. Out there's just too. Many
it's hard to find the lineup that you're, LIKE i
think THAT i can see that closing in the second
round of the playoffs or. SOMETHING i JUST i don't
know if that group is there.
Speaker 1: Some free agents THAT i think they could consider just
as like they can come in and they would, Help
like A Torrim Prince jake La ravia could be pretty
interesting on the. Scene Chris bouchet would totally work on this.
TEAM i KNOW i name him for, everybody but like
he actually Works tate's Naz. Reid but that's like that
now you're inside and trade. Territory so what other picks
you're giving?
Speaker 2: Up all Of.
Speaker 1: Jayshawn tate for the defense because he can guard up
the offense could be a little bit. Questionable those are
just like the price. RANGES i think THE w shopping
in is sort of the mini mL e. Range probably
not a reunion With Larry Nance junior or. Anybody there's just,
like like you could look at some of the pure
shooters if you wanted, to BUT i don't know if
they have enough like defense to go Down and if
you're gonna go the pure shooting, route it's, okay just
lean Into Jordan hawkins.
Speaker 2: And give him the. Chance, YEAH i agree.
Speaker 1: Anything like any like trade. TARGETS i just. Don't this
team should not be trading any more first round, Picks
So i'm just not LIKE i can't even get into
trades for. Them, Yeah AND i guess this does signal
Because Joe dumars did say that they were gonna remain
committed To Zion is they've kind of clearly signaled now, That,
Okay zion is still the centerpiece of this team and
he will be on the roster Through february's trade.
Speaker 2: DEADLINE i was just gonna, say, like is this one
we need to, like what's what's the percentage chance that
we get To february And zion Is is it more
likely That zion is very much available or that he's
still totally like untouchable at the trade, deadline BECAUSE i
think it's more likely That dumars has to face facts
and be, like we just are gonna have to try
to move this.
Speaker 1: GUY i think it's more likely that what you're laying
out that he would be considered like, Gettable BUT i
just don't know if that's because to consider him untouchable
is how good is he? Playing how healthy is? He
it just feels like you're betting on for m to be,
untouchable he has to be, healthy and to just bet
on his health at this point it's UN i love
seeing Peaks ion on the, court but, like we don't
have enough evidence that it's going to. Sustain my final,
question this, team do you find that more intriguing? Offensively
right than? Defensively it feels like they have more holes
on the defensive.
Speaker 2: End, now oh, yeah, yeah definitely this should be an offensive.
Team Like zion one of the ten best men that
might be selling him short offensive players in the. League
when he's. HEALTHY i Think murphy could just if he
stays hell, again if, healthy If murphy could be. PHENOMENAL
i think even guys Like fears, like there's Real, hawkins
there's real there's real punch. Here if they can make
it work and if they're willing to just concede on
the defensive, End, yeah this is an offensive. TEAM i
would be shocked if if they, just you, know if
they had a higher defensive rating ranking wise than. Offensive
it's a little bit of a somber.
Speaker 1: Occasion it's our final, offseason looking all thirty teams were
talking about individually their own, episodes even though some of
them were combined in the podcast feed on YouTube though
thirty individual. Videos but we're talking about The washington which
is you, KNOW i don't think people this podcast is
not doesn't fall under that. Bucket people aren't used to
talking about The Wizards grant And rosie, terms but we
are about, to and we have been for a little.
WHILE i feel like that's a great place to. Start
are they plotting something big following this? Season? Grant when
you look at the when they made The Jordan poole
For Encadig bay FOR. Cj, mccollm And Kelly olynic, trades
it sets them up for. NOW i want to put
an emphasis on potentially because a lot will depend on
where it's their draft, pickland what moves they made this last.
Season but they can currently have over one hundred million
dollars in cap. Space that's that's not what it used
to be because like you can't even technically like that's
less than two max deals if you're signing the right free,
agent like the ten. Points but that is so much
flexibility and it wasn't not that it wasn't on our.
Radar we knew they'd be, flexible but they just wiped so,
much just raw salary off their twenty twenty six cap.
Sheet and so are They, like does this mean that
they're getting ready to do something huge after this?
Speaker 2: SEASON i THINK i think it means that they. Are it's,
like are they gonna sign a max guy and then
maybe figure out how to get to or something. LIKE
i don't think that's the. PLAY i do think it's
just an extreme version of What brooklyn, did except that
The wizards already have like five interesting young players That
brooklyn did not have as it entered this offseason as the.
Like AND i also don't Think washington's gonna be the
only team with max plus money next. Summer but it,
weirdly AND i don't mean this as like a discouraging
thing For wizards, fans but that one hundred million dollars
potentially in cap space is kind of like where the
rebuild will actually start and it's not, like, well they
already have sar And carrington and like some interesting players
And Trey. JOHNSON i, LIKE i think, though that that
hundred million dollars in room is maybe where they where
they really, start like wielding, power LIKE i just in
whatever form that. Takes that might mean taking on more bad.
Deals that might mean being just a crazy facilitator and
you're getting you're trying to build a pickall like The
thunder or The jazz have or something like that with.
IT i don't think it's gonna be you know, what
let's go get, like let's let's sign Like KEVIN nba, Guys,
yeah Like kevin Ran, Right that's that doesn't feel like
it to. Me what do you if you had to,
guess what do you think that that that one hundred
million dollars is gonna go TO.
Speaker 1: I think it's honestly gonna be substantially less by the
time that the summer comes, around BECAUSE i think that
this is the front office led By Will dawkins And Michael.
Winger it's just proven they're gonna be opportunistic and they
kind of sore away here to like get out of
a deal In Jordan poole's that could it looks fine
now after last, season but he had a better, year
did a lot better out of the pick and. Roll
we saw signs of that changing after his first, season
like excuse me during the latter run of his first
season In. Washington but, like you just had this opportunity
to not really give up anything that was a value
to you long term and create this. Flexibility and what
you're doing now is we're all looking at this in
twenty twenty six, terms and we're gonna get to. This
we don't need to spend too much time on. It
but now you just have all these massive expiring contracts
to do stuff with right.
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah and LIKE i think just generally when the
current state of the league is like there's a fair
amount of panic and like rash action happening because teams are.
Inflexible if you have this kind of, flexibility it's like a.
Superpower it's just it's like you you can make anything,
happen and you'll you'll be dealing with teams that are
desperate and you're gonna have. Leverage you're gonna be dealing
with teams that want to do something that cannot happen
unless you facilitate. It it is very much Like brooklyn
and and SO i think you're right, though like they
can start doing stuff that's the deadline if they if
they will they play that.
Speaker 1: Game take on fifty million dollars in extra money for
like this, summer and then you could use the other
fifty next. Summer. Easy do you want to take us
through their cap, fitles? Sir.
Speaker 2: Yeah so they they're gonna be about twenty eight million
under the tax thirty five million or a little bit
more below the first. Apron they already do have fourteen
roster spots spoken, for which kind of makes that. Amazing
that tells you that this is LIKE i, mean With
middleton and, McCollum to still be in that position is pretty.
Impressive with the rest of the roster that doesn't Include Malcolm,
brogden doesn't include any guaranteed money For Rishawn. Holmes they
can spend the FULL mL if they want. To the draft,
ASSETS i mean they've so they have an obligation to
The knicks in twenty six with top eight. Protection we
can talk a little bit more about that if you.
Want they can still trade up a bunch of the
first if they want. To they can have roughly a
dozen extra seconds from other teams coming in through twenty thirty.
Two they do have an odd number of like weird
protections on a lot of their, picks and like they
still have like The Horror Crux warriors. Pick is that
still a?
Speaker 1: Thing, yeah so they get it if it falls between
twenty one and thirty, right, yeah, Okay but so other than,
That nick's obligation with top it with like they're gonna
keep that, pick, Right so that turns into that turns
into two seconds in twenty six and twenty. Seven but
it does make if you wanted to trade a first
your first. Allowable you're working with twenty twenty, eight two
thousand and, thirty two thousand and thirty. Two so and
you do have The warriors pick that you could include as,
well SO i think they would be into they, got,
well they had The memphis pick this year that they,
got like they could trade the equivalent that's already been,
burned like of five first round picks this. Summer, basically
if IF.
Speaker 2: I put the number of first round picks traded by
The wizards in the next, calendar you're at point. Five
would you take the over or Under i'm.
Speaker 1: Traded i'm gonna say, under And i'm gonna follow it
up with. It IF i set the over under of
one point five first round picks acquired over the that's
a you're take any over the.
Speaker 2: Under that's an, over, sir that's a hard.
Speaker 1: Over two and a half?
Speaker 2: Over why not five and a? Half, okay go under?
There bad, line bad, line too.
Speaker 1: Easy they have no extension candidates, well of note it's,
like but they. Do they could extend like any of
the veterans that are basically on their. Roster my question
for this, team, though is just what are those contracts
going to be used? For like you Have middleton expiring
at thirty three point, three McCullum's expiring at thirty point,
Seven smart expiring at twenty one point, Six Kelly olynock
expiring at thirteen point four and then The Rashaun holmes.
Thing he's only guaranteed fifty k and you have enough
expiring contracts where it's what we don't need is thirteen
point three. Million but, like if you just need to
guarantee part of that to make another trade happen and
take back like more money or a player that you
have interested in so that you save these expiring contracts
of players who might look maybe not, McCollum but LIKE
i could see a team absolutely trading For smart And
middleton and giving up value to get them in the
middle of the year if they're playing well.
Speaker 2: Enough, yeah it's a. POSSIBILITY i actually was, floating not really,
seriously but like could they buy these guys? Out and
just LIKE i don't think that's realistic because you're not
really getting anything for. That maybe maybe if they like
mc If middleton for, example just isn't healthy and you're, like,
okay let's do him a favor and maybe like in
the second half of year he can help, somebody but,
like who what do they?
Speaker 1: Care the problem with, that, though is so how many
teams are those guys not eligible to sign with because they, Out,
yeah isn't there only one team in the second? Apron
is that only a second apron? Restriction so if it's
only a second apron, restriction that's not a big. DEAL
i thought it.
Speaker 2: MIGHT i can't remember if it's the first apron or second.
Apron definitely the second, apron but BUT i don't know
if it's also the.
Speaker 1: First uh, So but it's just so if you're The, wizards,
like how are you kind of treating These you're not
extending any of these? Guys i'd be shocked if that.
Speaker 2: Happens, no because this whole thing we've been talking about
for them is the flexibility next, summer like you're and
just their, veterans, like what do You there's, NO i
don't know what the number even is that you would
want them back on that they would be even willing to,
consider just Because washington still is a long ways, away
and if You're middleton and you might have another good
one to two, years like what You're you're Not you're
not extending. HERE i don't think.
Speaker 1: Are you more open to as The? Wizards are you
referring to use those expiring contracts to make moves this
summer or is it something because there are some, guys
even McCollum, himself that you could view as having individual
value that you would rather wait to make those decisions
until the middle of the. Season you're kind of just focusing, On,
okay what do we need and how do we want
to use our mid level? Here, well, WELL i just.
Speaker 2: Want to tell, like let's take McCollum for, Example, like
is there a scenario where you can trade him in
season and not take back money for twenty six twenty, seven, right,
like because it's hard to have that?
Speaker 1: Works, well you know what's interesting, Though so like let
you smart as the, example or Maybe Kelly, Olinick so
like the salaries that aren't too too expensive because of
where The wizards are at, Financially, LIKE i think they
could take the way it's. Computed had Tip prime. Too
porak for telling me that it's not seven and a half,
MILLION i think they could take it back like eight
and a half million extra on top of those. Numbers
so let's Use Kelly olinick thirteen point four. Million you
could take back a player making twenty one or twenty two.
Million if there's a team that wants to get off
and save money or is trying to navigate the. Aprons
and by the, way it looks like so first apron
teams are the ones that if you're in the first
apron can. Slide so it's like if you're maybe mid
season you didn't trade, them, sure but right now IT'S
i don't know what that necessarily does For middleton or
McCollum Or smart like of who like they're, options BUT
i think that's you, know if you're looking At, Smart
olynic or Even that's Why Rashaun holmes's deal is interesting
is you can take back so much, Money, like if
you Like Rashaun, holmes you could guarantee like like seven
and a half, million and you could take back double
that plus two hundred and fifty thousand. Dollars you can
take back a fifteen million dollar player basically by guaranteeing
seven and a half million of his. CONTRACT i don't
have like a name that brings to mind like, immediately
but if a team is looking to save, money like
that is something you could absolutely.
Speaker 2: Do so you're viewing it as, like, well we can
use these guys to take back larger numbers that say
that are also expiring ideally from a team that really
needs to cut its payroll and we'll get a second
out of it or something like. That that's kind of what.
Speaker 1: You, are a player that you, like what IF i
don't know why you necessarily Do like let's Say phoenix
wants to get rid Of Grayson allen and so like
you could guarantee whatever you Need Rashawn's holmes's deal so
that they're saving money off Of Grayson allen's number immediately
and they're getting out of that entire. Contract are they giving,
you LIKE i don't know what they're giving you as
partably Giving rigadaro or. Something, yeah you could do something like.
Speaker 2: That, YEAH i could see. That, YEAH i think like
it would Be this is what's, interesting is like it'd
be okay if all these guys just expired and came
off the, Books like that would be a, Fine like
they're Not washington's not mad at that at. All in,
fact like that might be pretty likely in a lot
of these. Cases but, Yeah i'm with you. NOW i
think YOU'VE i do see some some possibilities.
Speaker 1: Here, Yeah like a team like let's Say cleveland trying
to straddle the second, Apron like do you get a
like A Max strus out of, this or are you
interested In DeAndre hunter like or those the or what
are you getting? Compensated if the Players Isaaca coro and
now it's different because he's making just like a so
like you could get maybe a player that you actually,
like and if you're just helping these teams like save
money off their tax. Bills the other question here before
we get into, needs do you think that there will
Be i've Seen Malcolm brogden's name floated a lot for
the MINI mla. TEAMS i kind of thought he'd be
able to make more than. That is there a if
you're The wizards or one it's? Twofold is there a
sign and trade market For Malcolm? Brogden and if you're The,
wizards do you offer him like just enough above market
where it's like ten million or twelve million or? Something
and THEN i hope that you could just flip him
for seconds or something like that in the middle of the.
Speaker 2: YEAR i kind of like that the ladder approach you laid.
OUT i think he's a tricky player just BECAUSE i,
mean when you bounce around as much as he has
in recent years and have missed as much time as he.
Has it's like maybe it's just, like, yeah you're you're
not that far from being a vet minimum guy at this.
Point BUT i do think if you have the ability,
again just like it's not because he's worth ten million a,
year it's because you could use him With Rashaun holmes
and like you you, know it's it's an asset preservation.
THING i Think washington has has the luxury of being
able to do. That but, YEAH i think it's it's
there in the weird situation just generally of like half
of the roster is almost just like an asset kind
of thing and with some veteran like you, KNOW i
don't know influence as a, positive and the other half
is like we kind of need these guys to. Pop
like there's this weird like there's not a lot of
middle ground guys on this.
Speaker 1: TEAM i WOULD i was just, yeah THERE'S i Think
i'm with you, There so let's talk. Needs what do
You there's so many young, players and we talked a
lot post draft about how there seems like there's a
nice balance between their young players when you look at
just positionally Saw Cool, Bali Trey, Johnson Bub, Carrington Keishawn.
George there's that symmetry there almost maybe not a true
it would that would depend on bub not a true
floor general of the. Bunch and that's still What i'm
kind of looking at with this. Team is is there
a way to do you just want a veteran in,
here because that's not even Really malcolm Brock, in it's
certainly not. Smart or do you take a is there
a second draft guy out there that you would want
to try and get in on and try, out or
you just take a weird flyer on just like a you,
know kind of a.
Speaker 2: PROJECT i think it is a huge, need AND i
think the WAY i would address it is by Having
carrington just try to be that guy with the benefit
of the veterans you just mentioned who aren't that, guy
but like our good influences that can help him in other,
ways because because like the alternative like having a having
A jones or Like Chris paul is not coming, here
but like just we gotta go Get Chris paul right
like he kind of LIKE i DON'T i, understand, like,
yeah this is this is gonna be more helpful for
guys Like sar and like more dependent. Players BUT i
think the upside of like maybe bub like takes a
leap because you really just you, KNOW i mean he
played a ton last year, too like.
Speaker 1: And there's roys like when like his live, dribble it's
not super he's not super quick with, it but like there's, there.
Speaker 2: Right AND i think you you try to nurture, that
and you you and you let him fail a lot
and you just have the support system around. Him is
is are the veterans we're talking. ABOUT i don't like
the idea of bringing in a veteran like floor general over,
him even though that would make the team, better like,
probably but because that's also kind of not the. POINT i.
THINK i think you're still just kind of mining these
young players and seeing what they can do in like,
big big minute roles and if they, fail they. Fail
but LIKE i don't you know WHAT i, Mean LIKE
i don't want the veteran point guard on this. TEAM
i don't.
Speaker 1: Think, NO i don't. Be you can.
Speaker 2: Be he can be a bench. Guy he can be
like a ceremonial vet that just sits. There BUT i
don't want to playing Over.
Speaker 1: Carington, yeah it would be more so it's like if
you could get Tie jerome like with the with the mid,
Level sure bring him off the bench and he's like
also he's not super old in his like twenties or
is it a SECOND i call him a second draft?
Guy like what If detroit is trying to make a huge,
move can you get in on just trying Out jade
And ivy or do you think sure is that you
would be open to that or do you view that
AS i was gonna, say it's that like too central
to where oh if you Get jade And ive like,
now like we got to really try and play like
he's extensional as well right, now so you really have,
to you, know invest playing time in.
Speaker 2: HIM i MEAN i would almost View, IVY i know
he's been in the league, longer but as like A
carrington player of LIKE i would be you can't kind
of do it with both of. Them but like the
theory of if we they should be Targeting ivy type
second draft players just and just like throw them out
there because LIKE i don't, know the odds Of ivy
being An All star are PROBABLY i would say are
comparable To carrington becoming An All star at some. Point
so like now you've got two shots at. It you
don't want him to overlap too, much if that makes any.
Sense but, yeah that's certainly the player type you're looking
at second draft guys that that aren't hopefully going to
get in the way of the ones you use that
are on their first. Draft still With, Washington.
Speaker 1: Kobe buffkin could be. INTERESTING i don't land any that
would be a really good name if, man If memphis
was looking to cut, money can you Get Scottie Pippen.
Jr that'd be?
Speaker 2: FUN i mean that he's just. GOOD i mean that
might be a. Problem do you know.
Speaker 1: What Veteran i'd be okay? With he doesn't really fall
under the realm of floor, general BUT i think as
someone who can be like a pace and tone, Center
like just Having Lonzo ball on this team would be super.
Speaker 2: Fun, Right he's another guy that would make it, easier
like it would Help carrington and not get in the
way Of, CARRINGTON i, think and the other guys. Too
he's just an, additive like connective guy that that would makes.
Speaker 1: Sense AND i don't know are they second? Draft is
he second draft material? Yet but Like Kiante george From,
UTAH i.
Speaker 2: Mean is getting, Close LIKE i don't, KNOW i Think
utah would view him kind of similarly right right to
How washington views Like carrington and some of their other young.
Guys like maybe next year at this, time it'd be
a different. Conversation uh but.
Speaker 1: But, yeah THE i don't have a ton on this
team BECAUSE i think that they've done such a good
job of making it clear what their goal is and
then positioning themselves for the, future and they're just set
up to continue developing these. Guys BUT i think what
could help streamline their development is, like can you get
some more just higher volume dead eye shooting out of
the wing? Spots that's NOT i, KNOW. Cj mccollm will
get them. Up Chris, middleton that's not really what he.
Does Keyshawn. George will the volume or the efficiency be?
There so they wanted to get in for a, shooter
like whether it's by trade or just signing someone off
the free agent, market like if they like if they
wanted to Be, hey we're gonna Give gary Tran junior
A molik, busy like an inflated one plus one, Sure
like if that's, like if that's the rout you want to,
know just to open up the floor for the Players
i'm most concerned about with that, is you, know Bub,
Gulbali Alex Sar Trey johnson of course like to just
make sure that he has every level to. Explore BUT
I i have to, say AND i don't mean to sound,
shocked BECAUSE i think they've telegraphed ever since this new
front office took over that this is gonna be a
franchise that operates with. FORETHOUGHT i can't say enough good
things about how well they've. Gone we don't know what
it's gonna turn. Into it's like a lot of it
is still very much, theoretical including the players on the,
roster but The Wizard's front office has done a heck
of a job just positioning this organization for the utmost.
Speaker 2: Flexibility, YEAH i would SAY i would agree with all
that and add that like it is a process versus
results kind of analysis for, me because, like, yeah they
they had two high lottery picks OR i mean one
high lottery pick and another lottery pick in a twenty
twenty four draft that just you, know too, Bad like
they're just you, Know sorr may or may not become
a high end. Starter same With, carrington same With. George
but like the process that yielded those, picks like really
probably starting with the beeal trade a couple of years,
ago it was just, Like, okay we've got adults running
the running the show, now and like with them With,
charlotte like these Like doormats are are and like these
like kind of like unambitious nine and ten Ced chasers
are like reforming, themselves and maybe we're not that far
away from The east being kind of, like, oh this
is the conference with all the like there's there's there's
twelve good teams in. It. Now you know.
Speaker 1: There will always be like A bulls or A, pelicans
but it does feel like that's increasingly becoming an. Outlier
and it was never the, rule but it felt like
it was more easy to spot the franchises that would
kind of screw themselves. Over and it's getting a lot
harder to do.
Speaker 2: That, yeah that is Not washington, anymore.
Speaker 1: Got anything else on? Them are you ready to take?
Us take us out?
Speaker 2: HERE i think we've sufficiently praised The wizards and it's
all been Sincere it's just it's, just, uh it's. Weird
it has it wasn't that way for a long, time
but here we are what.
Speaker 1: Other NATIONAL Nba podcasts even gave you twenty minutes on
The Washington.
Speaker 2: WIZARDS i feel like we've been in the good graces
of a lot of wizardsdom because we like Blaw Cool
bali so much and have always liked him so, much
and there's no better way to endear yourself than to.
Speaker 1: Like and we were pumping the brakes on The Alex
saar disappointment, too where it's like you AND i are
similar in the sense like for the first two years
of a, career we're very eye. Testy it's, like, OH
i don't, care they can't finish through. Contact look at
what he did with this Past like he shot this
from three FOR x amount of.
Speaker 2: Games, yeah shot forty two percent from two and he's a.
Center don't.
Speaker 1: Care he's grabbing and going, yeah like, yeah, side, yeah.
Speaker 2: Right we just we're just eye test. Guys that's that's
what our numbers.
Speaker 1: Even.
Speaker 2: Really, no thanks everybody for, listening for. Watching make sure
you rate a, review, subscribe doing all the helpful things
checking us out on, YouTube give us thumbs up, there
leave us a, comment let us know what you think
about The, wizards because whatever you, think it's not as
positive as what we, think and we like The wizards,
first so we like The wizards before it was. COOL
i think it's gonna do. It tell your, friends tell your.
Enemies Shouts Frank. Milokin, Apologies jaredien