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<v Speaker 4>You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking

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<v Speaker 4>Killers in true crime history and the authors that have

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<v Speaker 4>written about him Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK every

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<v Speaker 4>week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and

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<v Speaker 4>infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,

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<v Speaker 4>journalist and author Dan Zufanski.

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<v Speaker 5>Good Evening. Every serial killer is a nice guy until

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<v Speaker 5>he's found out. The shocking true account was Southern charmer

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<v Speaker 5>who left a trail of victims in his wake. Jerry

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<v Speaker 5>Marcus fooled them all. He was a nice guy, always

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<v Speaker 5>helped at home, did well in school, an athlete, and

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<v Speaker 5>always employed. When things went wrong, he was the first

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<v Speaker 5>to help clean up the mess. He was the last

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<v Speaker 5>person anyone suspected of being a killer. After Marcus was

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<v Speaker 5>caught and sentenced to life in prison in the late seventies,

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<v Speaker 5>author Linda lou Long spent years corresponding with him. The

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<v Speaker 5>Tuskegee Strangler gives an inside look into the workings of

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<v Speaker 5>a man who is not your typical serial killer. The

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<v Speaker 5>book they were featuring this evening is the Tuskegee Strangler,

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<v Speaker 5>the nicest serial killer they ever met with my special

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<v Speaker 5>guest author and researcher, Linda lou Long. Welcome to the program,

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<v Speaker 5>and thank you so much for this interview.

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<v Speaker 6>Linda lou Long, thank you, thank you very much for

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<v Speaker 6>having me.

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<v Speaker 5>Thank you so much. Let's start off with how you

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<v Speaker 5>came to be the author of this story.

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<v Speaker 6>Where should I start?

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<v Speaker 2>It just all started as a college class and I

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<v Speaker 2>just had to write about a serial killer. And I

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<v Speaker 2>just happened to be on the phone to some friends

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<v Speaker 2>in the state where Jerry Marcus was finally arrested, Mississippi,

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<v Speaker 2>and they told me about usial killer there, and I

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<v Speaker 2>looked up the arresting officer and that's how it all started.

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<v Speaker 5>Let's go back. You say, these murders began in Tuskegee, Alabama,

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<v Speaker 5>where this Tuskegee University is located, and Jerry Marcus, his

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<v Speaker 5>father was Eddie Marcus, and his mother was Ruth, and

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<v Speaker 5>his aunt lived next door, his paternal ant live next door.

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<v Speaker 5>Tell us about Jerry Marcus, his family life, what that

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<v Speaker 5>looked like, and how he grew up.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I would say that they had a typical family

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<v Speaker 2>as it were down south here, the street was dead

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<v Speaker 2>end and all the neighbors everyone knew that each other,

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<v Speaker 2>and the aunt was next door, so it was a

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<v Speaker 2>pretty comfortable setting on.

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<v Speaker 6>The father worked and so did the mother.

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<v Speaker 2>The father had a drinking problem, but it was just

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<v Speaker 2>that was partially I guess what started the one lot

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<v Speaker 2>of everything for Jerry Marcus because he grew up seeing

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<v Speaker 2>his mother getting abused.

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<v Speaker 6>By his father due to the alcohol, and he just

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<v Speaker 6>went his own way with it.

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<v Speaker 5>You say that he was also abused by his father,

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<v Speaker 5>and not only did he witness this and along with

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<v Speaker 5>his siblings, but he also you say, his behavior changed

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<v Speaker 5>around eight or ten years old, he felt the badness.

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<v Speaker 5>With this badness, you say that he first tortured animals,

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<v Speaker 5>and we're talking very specific. So what was that torture

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<v Speaker 5>of animals? Like, what did he have to say?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it was kind of a rural area, so it

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't like you were in the city in the city

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<v Speaker 2>because Tuskegee is a small town even now, and so

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<v Speaker 2>there were lots of stray animals around and Jerry had

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<v Speaker 2>an affinity for pestering and torturing cats.

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<v Speaker 6>He liked cats, He liked to torture them.

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<v Speaker 2>And one in particular, which was mentioned in the press

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<v Speaker 2>and mentioned in other accounts, is that he would there

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<v Speaker 2>was one particular female and she was hanging around all

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<v Speaker 2>the time, and so he dipped her. He got a

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<v Speaker 2>whole lover and dipped her tail in I think it

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<v Speaker 2>was gasoline and set it on fire, so she would,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, chase her tail until she died. Practically, so

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<v Speaker 2>he was like that, and he liked to watch when

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<v Speaker 2>things like this would happen. Even though whether he set

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<v Speaker 2>it up or watched it happen, you know, in the wild,

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<v Speaker 2>he still liked to watch and like to see the

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<v Speaker 2>animal tormented.

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<v Speaker 5>What did he progress to when he saw the when

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<v Speaker 5>he felt the excitement of fire and its effect on

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<v Speaker 5>these animals.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, early on, he.

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<v Speaker 2>Was still really young, and he was still pre adolescent,

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<v Speaker 2>and so he really didn't get a grasp of what

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<v Speaker 2>these behaviors could lead to, or what he was really experiencing,

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<v Speaker 2>or any of that. He was just experiencing a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of different and he was usually by himself. He didn't

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<v Speaker 2>seem to have he didn't He shied away from playmates,

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<v Speaker 2>their kids other than he would torment them at church

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<v Speaker 2>and stuff. But he stayed away from the other kids,

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<v Speaker 2>and he was pretty much a solitary anyway. But he

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<v Speaker 2>was always with the animals and all and catching them

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<v Speaker 2>in the timber. And because the whole house was it

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<v Speaker 2>was a real timber, large pine trees, real wooded area

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<v Speaker 2>where they lived in, and so there was a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of wild animals around that he had access to.

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<v Speaker 6>Him would do things too.

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<v Speaker 5>You write about that his fascination again with fire led

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<v Speaker 5>to again this interesting fire and what did that lead

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<v Speaker 5>to in terms of his behavior. What happened at the

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<v Speaker 5>family home.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, the family home caught on fire.

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<v Speaker 2>Now there wasn't a police report or anything like that

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<v Speaker 2>about it to read, And I just interviewed both his

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<v Speaker 2>mother and his grandmother and we all talked about it,

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<v Speaker 2>but they never really the grandmother and the mother never

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<v Speaker 2>suspected Jerry of having anything to do with setting that fire.

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<v Speaker 2>No one knew how it started, but they really didn't

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<v Speaker 2>suspect him. Whereas it was probably one of Jerry's first

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<v Speaker 2>efforts reaching out, you know, and seeing just how much

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<v Speaker 2>he could get away with, and I think it simply

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<v Speaker 2>got out of control.

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<v Speaker 6>You know, he didn't really relate.

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<v Speaker 2>Specifically what it was that triggered him, and I never

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<v Speaker 2>could get that out of him. But he just really

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<v Speaker 2>felt an affinity to fire and the smell of burning

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<v Speaker 2>things and all, and like when he watched this hot

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<v Speaker 2>his family house burn, he was sitting back in the

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<v Speaker 2>timber and he was just really getting off on it

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<v Speaker 2>and watching the sparks and everything in the grass, and he.

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<v Speaker 6>Was really getting off on it. But there is a

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<v Speaker 6>he didn't really relate.

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<v Speaker 2>We didn't, Okay, I will say that we didn't discuss

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<v Speaker 2>it any further than the fact that he had said

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<v Speaker 2>that he was involved with it. And I suspect it

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<v Speaker 2>was a couch that was caught on fire, and he

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<v Speaker 2>thought it was more of a controllable thing, but it

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<v Speaker 2>was not, so it caught the rest of the house

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<v Speaker 2>on fire.

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<v Speaker 5>Now, a person that plays into this story of great

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<v Speaker 5>importance is Gwen. And at fourteen in grade school, Marcus

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<v Speaker 5>and Gwen meet tell us what happens at the same

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<v Speaker 5>time in terms of what's going on in his family

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<v Speaker 5>between his parents.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, I will say that I don't.

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<v Speaker 2>I only know about Gwen as far as Jerry was

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<v Speaker 2>able to tell me. I have not personally met nor

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<v Speaker 2>interviewed her because that was her request. She didn't want

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<v Speaker 2>a part of it, and I respect that, so I

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't going to do that. But according to Jerry, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they just met, had a lot in common, and she

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<v Speaker 2>really impressed him because she was really smart, and he

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<v Speaker 2>liked that, you know, he liked having a female that

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<v Speaker 2>he could relate to. He's so I'm not sure what

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<v Speaker 2>that meant, but you know, that's his major interest in her.

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<v Speaker 2>And he never was any threat to Gwynn as far

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<v Speaker 2>as her safety or her well being or anything either.

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<v Speaker 2>It was like their relationship was completely separate from his

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<v Speaker 2>other personality.

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<v Speaker 6>Which it truly was. I mean, she had no idea.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I'm sure you right. That the parents were experiencing well,

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<v Speaker 5>the mother was experiencing violence at the hands of the father.

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<v Speaker 5>It was progressively getting worse, and that Marcus was certainly

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<v Speaker 5>resorted to peeping in the neighborhood. He thought that everybody

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<v Speaker 5>knew what was going on in his family anyway, and

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<v Speaker 5>that was his justification, you write, for him to go

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<v Speaker 5>and peep at young women in their underwear. After that,

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<v Speaker 5>his schoolwork wasn't affected by his behavior, but at some

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<v Speaker 5>point he excels in sports and then tell us about

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<v Speaker 5>the relationship as it develops with Gwynn and they get married.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there was a gap in there because Gwynn had

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<v Speaker 2>another relationship before Jerry, and even believed that she was

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<v Speaker 2>in New Orleans for a while.

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<v Speaker 6>But I'm not sure of that, so I can't say.

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<v Speaker 2>But they were having a relationship and seeing each other

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<v Speaker 2>and stuff before they actually went to the courthouse and

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<v Speaker 2>signed the papers and got formally married.

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<v Speaker 6>You know, they had a relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess they got back together, shall we say, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>between being young and in love and in grade school

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<v Speaker 2>and junior high and high school and stuff, and then

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<v Speaker 2>the breakup between the two of them, you know, just

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<v Speaker 2>when she went her own way and then they got

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<v Speaker 2>back together.

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<v Speaker 6>That was difference in there.

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<v Speaker 2>She hadn't even been around, you know, when Jerry had

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<v Speaker 2>been starting working there at the university and all. She

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<v Speaker 2>hadn't even been around really, But they got back together,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was odd that there was such a stable relationship,

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<v Speaker 2>and he still said that he respected her and he

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<v Speaker 2>had no intention of ever doing any harm to her

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<v Speaker 2>her family, which he adopted as his.

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<v Speaker 5>It's interesting, You're right, before this as well, that when

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<v Speaker 5>it was time to go to school, there wasn't any money.

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<v Speaker 5>But when he asked his father anyway, he said, I

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<v Speaker 5>wouldn't give you a red scent because you abandoned me

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<v Speaker 5>and the family when the family had problems and the

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<v Speaker 5>mother moved to New Orleans and left the family. So

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<v Speaker 5>the father saw it as an abandonment of him and

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<v Speaker 5>the family and said, I wouldn't give you a red

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<v Speaker 5>cent for education. Marcus Jerry went to his aunt, and

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<v Speaker 5>his aunt provided the tuition for him to go to college.

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<v Speaker 5>And in college he did well enough. Like you say,

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<v Speaker 5>he was always as you write, he was always concerned

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<v Speaker 5>with being employed, and by all reports he was a

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<v Speaker 5>good worker. So he was working at a hospital, the

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<v Speaker 5>John D. Andrews Community Hospital.

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<v Speaker 6>Right that was a Tuskegee hospital, right on the campus grounds.

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<v Speaker 5>Now being on the campus grounds and being this person

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<v Speaker 5>with this developing anger and hatred and obviously justification for

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<v Speaker 5>everything he did do and had gotten away from the

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<v Speaker 5>law and straight by with various decisions in the courts,

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<v Speaker 5>so he was definitely confident that he could fool law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 5>What did this lead to on the campus of the

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<v Speaker 5>Tuskegee university.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, Jerry never had anything but a parking

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<v Speaker 2>ticket on his record, nothing, and he was real good

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<v Speaker 2>about skirting the law, you know, or just being on

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<v Speaker 2>the edge of possibly being involved. And he was always

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<v Speaker 2>seemed to be around, you know, the detective in that area,

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<v Speaker 2>Al Kendall, out of Tuskegee. He never could quite pin

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<v Speaker 2>Jerry because Jerry always just be on the fringe of things,

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<v Speaker 2>always be there, always be looking, but not close enough

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<v Speaker 2>to really pin him to anything for other issues in

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<v Speaker 2>the future or even in the past when he was younger,

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<v Speaker 2>because he had known him when he was really young.

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<v Speaker 2>But I really can't say shere is just it was

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<v Speaker 2>just an odd relationship because it was him and Gwen.

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<v Speaker 6>They were so natural, so normal.

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<v Speaker 2>He's back to Gwen and said, well, we should do

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<v Speaker 2>this and we should get married now, and that's what

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<v Speaker 2>they did and it went on from there.

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<v Speaker 6>But it just seemed like once that happened, it just

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<v Speaker 6>started going downhill. The relationship.

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<v Speaker 5>Tell us about the incidents with the two student nurses,

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<v Speaker 5>what they have to say, what he has to say,

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<v Speaker 5>and the ramifications from.

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<v Speaker 2>That, Well, they really didn't have anything to say since

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<v Speaker 2>they were both dead. But it's so they couldn't have

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<v Speaker 2>ever done. It was just like those two girls, and

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<v Speaker 2>what happened to them dropped out of time, you know.

255
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<v Speaker 2>It was almost impossible to find out and to trace

256
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<v Speaker 2>this pattern all the way back to this starting with

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<v Speaker 2>the two girls, and the one, the very first one.

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<v Speaker 2>He was working on campus then in maintenance, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>how he saw her and began to know who she

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<v Speaker 2>was and follow her, follow in the sense of footsteps,

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00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:20.399
<v Speaker 2>not by electronic means, because there weren't computers like that

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<v Speaker 2>back then. But he was interested in her and he

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<v Speaker 2>followed her, and that happened in nineteen seventy one, and

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<v Speaker 2>that was when her body, not even her body, was

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00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:36.000
<v Speaker 2>never recovered, you see, and so she was just reported

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<v Speaker 2>missing and she just dropped out of society. And then

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<v Speaker 2>the next girl was less than a year later, and

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<v Speaker 2>of course they found Margaret's body. You know, he'd gone

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00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:49.679
<v Speaker 2>a step further with her. With the first girl, he hadn't.

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<v Speaker 2>He supposedly had just strangled her by accident and dumped

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<v Speaker 2>her body.

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<v Speaker 6>But then no one ever found it.

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<v Speaker 2>He never went he went back, he couldn't find it,

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<v Speaker 2>and so no one knows whatever happened to her, and

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<v Speaker 2>I never could find anything anything other than the small

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<v Speaker 2>mention in the student newspaper about her in particular, so

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<v Speaker 2>her and Margaret sturred. Event the very first two now

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<v Speaker 2>Margaret starred event wasn't a nursing student.

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<v Speaker 6>She was an engineering student, right, but she was getting

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<v Speaker 6>ready to graduate.

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<v Speaker 2>She had a family, already, was married, had a child,

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<v Speaker 2>and so it was odd that she was the one

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00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:33.159
<v Speaker 2>that he aggressed against and assaulted physically and left.

284
00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:37.559
<v Speaker 6>Her body new to be recovered. Now that was strange too.

285
00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:42.320
<v Speaker 2>But then once those two acts were committed within practically

286
00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:48.440
<v Speaker 2>weeks after that, he ended up getting offered by someone

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00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:51.360
<v Speaker 2>who had gone to school with, who now was in

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00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Tennessee and Knoxville College, and he offered him a position

289
00:15:56.039 --> 00:15:58.759
<v Speaker 2>there if he would come and play on their ball team.

290
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<v Speaker 2>And then all of a sudden, nothing else mattered anymore,

291
00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:05.919
<v Speaker 2>and he left when this family behind and his parents

292
00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:08.200
<v Speaker 2>and that part of the family behind, and he went

293
00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:08.799
<v Speaker 2>to Tennessee.

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<v Speaker 5>What I had mentioned about the nursing students was it

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00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:15.120
<v Speaker 5>just seemed to set up an mo where he would

296
00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:17.159
<v Speaker 5>be on the campus. He said that he wou was

297
00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:20.039
<v Speaker 5>working at the hospital and got some fenom barbeital for

298
00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:23.159
<v Speaker 5>these women, they told a different story. And then I

299
00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:26.480
<v Speaker 5>say that when he hooks up with Gwen, he marries Gwen.

300
00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:29.120
<v Speaker 5>Then this is when he decides to go on this

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00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:32.639
<v Speaker 5>these murderous urges that he can to kill, that he

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00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:36.200
<v Speaker 5>responds to. Right, And then you say that again he

303
00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:39.840
<v Speaker 5>leaves Gwen and is able like a true psychopath, as

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00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:42.519
<v Speaker 5>you call him to be able to just go and

305
00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:45.960
<v Speaker 5>excel at school and go on this well at least

306
00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:48.600
<v Speaker 5>go but to school on this scholarship and excel in

307
00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:52.559
<v Speaker 5>sports as attested to this scholarship. Right, you say, he

308
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:56.240
<v Speaker 5>moves to Tennessee. Now, what's unusual about this serial killer

309
00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:58.559
<v Speaker 5>is that he's a very nice guy and no one

310
00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:01.440
<v Speaker 5>suspect him. But there is something else about the serial

311
00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:02.879
<v Speaker 5>killer this unusual.

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00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:09.319
<v Speaker 2>Tell us, Well, it was almost eight years between what

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00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:13.319
<v Speaker 2>he did to the two students on the university in

314
00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:17.920
<v Speaker 2>seventy one, early in late seventy one, and then his

315
00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:24.039
<v Speaker 2>next act wasn't committed until October nineteen eighty three, So

316
00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:29.240
<v Speaker 2>he went many years with a break before he planned

317
00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:30.720
<v Speaker 2>to attack someone else.

318
00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:32.440
<v Speaker 6>Because see, these weren't strangers.

319
00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:36.079
<v Speaker 2>The next girl that he goes after he met her

320
00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:38.480
<v Speaker 2>when he went and he applied for public aid and

321
00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:42.880
<v Speaker 2>for food stamps. Yes, and she helped him get food stamps,

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00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:45.480
<v Speaker 2>and he set up a date with her and they

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00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.319
<v Speaker 2>went out two or three different times, and then I

324
00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:50.839
<v Speaker 2>think it was the third date, he just decided he

325
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:51.680
<v Speaker 2>was done with her.

326
00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:53.079
<v Speaker 6>And it kills her too.

327
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<v Speaker 5>And so you're talking about Francine Davis.

328
00:17:56.680 --> 00:17:58.279
<v Speaker 6>Yes, yes, franccene.

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<v Speaker 5>So police have no idea again have He's never a suspect,

330
00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:06.720
<v Speaker 5>except later we'll talk about al Kendall and his suspicions. Right,

331
00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:10.839
<v Speaker 5>let's talk about what happens with the case of Francine Davis.

332
00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:13.920
<v Speaker 5>How do police respond and what do they find, if anything.

333
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:18.200
<v Speaker 2>Francine Davis was another weird sort of thing because he

334
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:22.400
<v Speaker 2>completely switched over is whatever mo o he was trying

335
00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:25.759
<v Speaker 2>to establish with those other girls, and he really wasn't

336
00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:29.559
<v Speaker 2>you know. Both of those were incidents building up to

337
00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:32.200
<v Speaker 2>what else was going to happen in the future. They

338
00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:35.599
<v Speaker 2>really weren't planned and all of that. But this with

339
00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:38.839
<v Speaker 2>this girl, he spent quite a bit of time in

340
00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:42.519
<v Speaker 2>her apartment. They had gone to play tennis and she

341
00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:46.519
<v Speaker 2>had gone into shower and came out of the shower

342
00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:51.200
<v Speaker 2>and he assaulted her and he strangled her. But he

343
00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:55.079
<v Speaker 2>didn't just assault and strangle her. He was really worried

344
00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:58.599
<v Speaker 2>about the other girls. In the back of his mind.

345
00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:01.160
<v Speaker 2>He never knew if someone was going to pop their

346
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:03.799
<v Speaker 2>head up and say hi, I'm so, and so on

347
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:05.319
<v Speaker 2>and so on so and you tried to kill me

348
00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:07.559
<v Speaker 2>all those years ago. He was very afraid of that

349
00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:11.079
<v Speaker 2>that someone was going to come back and get him someday.

350
00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:16.039
<v Speaker 2>So he wanted to make sure that franccene was dead.

351
00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:20.880
<v Speaker 2>So he submerged fran scene in the bathtub and held

352
00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:24.759
<v Speaker 2>her under water until the air bubbles quit coming up,

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00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:28.720
<v Speaker 2>and he describes that, and then he took her out

354
00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:33.039
<v Speaker 2>of the tub and dried her off and redressed her

355
00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.039
<v Speaker 2>in a fresh set of well pajamas whatever she had,

356
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:40.960
<v Speaker 2>and set her up in the bed and propped her

357
00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:44.240
<v Speaker 2>up and had a note beside her hand with a

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00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:47.160
<v Speaker 2>name with a pencil saying I hate you Arthur, her

359
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:51.599
<v Speaker 2>husband's name who she was separated from. And he really

360
00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:55.319
<v Speaker 2>set her up. He cleaned them hire apartment, He cleaned

361
00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:59.759
<v Speaker 2>everything up. The place looked like it was a hotel fradically.

362
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:00.599
<v Speaker 3>And that was what you know.

363
00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:03.519
<v Speaker 2>The officers who came on the scene, and they thought

364
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.759
<v Speaker 2>she had had an attack related to a respiratory disorder

365
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.079
<v Speaker 2>she had, right, and that she had simply suffocated with

366
00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.480
<v Speaker 2>the medication or whatever because he had laid out her

367
00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:15.720
<v Speaker 2>medicine and all, you.

368
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<v Speaker 6>Know, And that's what they thought happened.

369
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<v Speaker 2>They had no idea until he confessed and they were

370
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<v Speaker 2>contacted that he was the one who had killed her,

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00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:28.400
<v Speaker 2>and that she was a murder suspect, not an incidental

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<v Speaker 2>death because the case had already been closed.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, he was trying to frame the boyfriend. He saw

374
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:37.559
<v Speaker 5>a photo and then he oh forged a note that

375
00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:41.160
<v Speaker 5>said I hate you Arthur and sort of this note

376
00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:45.240
<v Speaker 5>that he wanted police to find and in fact they did, right.

377
00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:48.319
<v Speaker 2>So they blame him. Yeah, Now he is a very

378
00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:50.240
<v Speaker 2>nice person. I met him and he gave me a

379
00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:51.799
<v Speaker 2>pretty picture of fren.

380
00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:55.000
<v Speaker 5>Scene right now. At the same time, Marcus has a

381
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:59.839
<v Speaker 5>dilemma because he has been using his girlfriend Lyn's car.

382
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.559
<v Speaker 5>He's supposed to pick her up. Meanwhile he's doing this murdering,

383
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:07.440
<v Speaker 5>So what's the idea that he hatches in his mind.

384
00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:13.240
<v Speaker 2>He gave her some excuse that he didn't pick her

385
00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:16.200
<v Speaker 2>up from work, and he gave her some excuse that

386
00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:19.000
<v Speaker 2>when he finally got home. I believe she reported him

387
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:21.440
<v Speaker 2>to the police missing because he had her car, and

388
00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:24.960
<v Speaker 2>he just told her that he had been robbed and assaulted.

389
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:28.599
<v Speaker 2>He said sexually assaulted at first, and then he decided

390
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:31.119
<v Speaker 2>to just change it to assaulted because he wanted to

391
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:34.839
<v Speaker 2>leave the second part out. And it was it was

392
00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:38.079
<v Speaker 2>funny the way he described it, and that's that was

393
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:40.640
<v Speaker 2>the excuse that he got. And he went to the

394
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:42.680
<v Speaker 2>police station there.

395
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:46.119
<v Speaker 6>And filed a report and all this stuff.

396
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:48.400
<v Speaker 2>About something that never happened when he slept in her

397
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:52.359
<v Speaker 2>car in a parking lot across the street. So you know,

398
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:55.640
<v Speaker 2>it was interesting in that sense that he got out

399
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:58.920
<v Speaker 2>of picking her up. And that was the excuse he provided,

400
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:01.160
<v Speaker 2>was that he had been assault to drob when he

401
00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:02.839
<v Speaker 2>didn't have any money in the first place.

402
00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:05.759
<v Speaker 5>And she said, so right, you're right that he knew

403
00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:09.440
<v Speaker 5>and he had experienced al Kendall for years since the seventies,

404
00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:12.359
<v Speaker 5>so he wanted to call somewhere else where he knew

405
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.759
<v Speaker 5>al Kendall wasn't unbeknownst to him, al Kendall speaks to

406
00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:18.799
<v Speaker 5>the person that speaks to Marcus.

407
00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:23.240
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, but that's a little bit later, a short while later, Yeah, anyway.

408
00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:27.359
<v Speaker 5>He is questioned police think this story sounds cock eyed anyway.

409
00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:32.440
<v Speaker 5>So his initial questioning began May fourteenth, nineteen eighty six.

410
00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:36.599
<v Speaker 5>And you say he told several different stories, raising one

411
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:41.720
<v Speaker 5>red flag after another. But there is another person that's missing,

412
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:47.400
<v Speaker 5>and mister class May eighth, nineteen eighty six, you Vet Chambers,

413
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:51.400
<v Speaker 5>so right, tell us about this questioning and what happens.

414
00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:55.319
<v Speaker 2>He met a VET at a local bar and they

415
00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:59.240
<v Speaker 2>sawry each other about three different times, and he gives

416
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.119
<v Speaker 2>her or three to his ideas of what he did

417
00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:06.119
<v Speaker 2>and who was involved, and the cars they were driving

418
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:09.079
<v Speaker 2>and what they were wearing, and most of it was

419
00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:13.680
<v Speaker 2>never able to prove it. All was, you know, different stories.

420
00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:17.039
<v Speaker 2>He told the police there in Tennessee one story and

421
00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:20.920
<v Speaker 2>then he told everyone he got home, he told another story,

422
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:24.519
<v Speaker 2>and another story after that, and just changing little bits

423
00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:28.240
<v Speaker 2>like what she wore, how she wore it, and where

424
00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:31.839
<v Speaker 2>he saw them arguing on the bridge, and all kinds

425
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:35.720
<v Speaker 2>of excuses. Really didn't have anything to do with anything,

426
00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:38.920
<v Speaker 2>but he started tangling things up. Then, you know, I

427
00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:41.880
<v Speaker 2>guess he had tried to. He didn't have to keep

428
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:44.680
<v Speaker 2>anything straight with the first two individuals.

429
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:46.880
<v Speaker 6>They were just gone but when.

430
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:50.880
<v Speaker 2>He started adding more was fran scene and then with

431
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:56.519
<v Speaker 2>event he started getting confused and mixing up his own stories,

432
00:23:56.680 --> 00:24:00.680
<v Speaker 2>not meaning to, but he wasn't prepared. He didn't feel

433
00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:03.480
<v Speaker 2>like he was going to be questioned. He thought that

434
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:07.000
<v Speaker 2>he was going to be special and ignored like he'd

435
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:10.279
<v Speaker 2>been ignored in the past, back in to Ski because

436
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:13.160
<v Speaker 2>everyone had no idea that he would ever do anything

437
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:15.960
<v Speaker 2>like that, so he was never questioned or suspected. But

438
00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:21.000
<v Speaker 2>it was different once he came back and he started

439
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:24.480
<v Speaker 2>killing again because he came back and started working on

440
00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:28.440
<v Speaker 2>campus again, except this time for a construction crew, but

441
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:31.480
<v Speaker 2>he still had access to the campus and that's where

442
00:24:31.559 --> 00:24:34.759
<v Speaker 2>he found the vet Chambers the first time.

443
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:39.720
<v Speaker 5>Tell us about this Leonora Wright, which was murdered eighteen

444
00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:44.039
<v Speaker 5>days after your vet Chambers. Right, and this is a

445
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:48.880
<v Speaker 5>wild story again, so bizarre. Marcus is grocery shopping with

446
00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:52.559
<v Speaker 5>his aunt, Missus Owens. Right, what does missus Owens do?

447
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:55.119
<v Speaker 5>She knows Leonora what happens.

448
00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:59.319
<v Speaker 2>She didn't it ever dream anything like this was going

449
00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:01.400
<v Speaker 2>to happen when she introduced them.

450
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:03.359
<v Speaker 6>Sure, and she just introduced them at.

451
00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:06.640
<v Speaker 2>The grocery store and she just knew her from seeing

452
00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:08.920
<v Speaker 2>her going in and out of church.

453
00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:12.319
<v Speaker 6>She wasn't intimate with her, knew her mother or grandmother

454
00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:13.240
<v Speaker 6>any of that stuff.

455
00:25:13.480 --> 00:25:17.119
<v Speaker 2>But you know, when she introduced them and they hit

456
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:19.200
<v Speaker 2>it right off, she was all for it because she

457
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:21.559
<v Speaker 2>thought she was a nice girl and her you know,

458
00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:25.039
<v Speaker 2>nephew was a wonderful kid, and he deserved a break

459
00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:27.720
<v Speaker 2>and meeting someone nice. He went to her church and

460
00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:30.400
<v Speaker 2>dah dah, dah da dah. But it wasn't that way

461
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.960
<v Speaker 2>at all, you know, it ended up being well, she

462
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:39.759
<v Speaker 2>ended up dead, and he didn't even hardly pause. She

463
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:43.559
<v Speaker 2>was a pickup date a couple of times. He picked

464
00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:45.519
<v Speaker 2>her up at home and took her out and brought

465
00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:50.519
<v Speaker 2>her back. And then this incident happened, and she fell

466
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:53.839
<v Speaker 2>and she heard herself supposedly in the stories he gave,

467
00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:56.640
<v Speaker 2>and he gave several, you know, more than one story

468
00:25:56.680 --> 00:25:57.599
<v Speaker 2>about her too.

469
00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:01.240
<v Speaker 5>Now you right though that she talked. It's six days

470
00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:06.039
<v Speaker 5>before her disappearance is brought to the attention of Tuskegee

471
00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:08.880
<v Speaker 5>Police Department. And then they search your house and find

472
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:11.759
<v Speaker 5>her body. Right, no one ever but again, but again

473
00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:14.799
<v Speaker 5>there's an autopsy. What's the cause of death?

474
00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:19.039
<v Speaker 2>Determination strangulation was his favorite they like to strangle.

475
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:21.160
<v Speaker 5>Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for a

476
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:24.359
<v Speaker 5>second to hear from our sponsor, which is talk Space.

477
00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:27.119
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478
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.680
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479
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480
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481
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482
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483
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484
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485
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487
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488
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491
00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:22.000
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492
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:26.319
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493
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494
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:36.640
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00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:39.440
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496
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:43.640
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497
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:47.079
<v Speaker 5>go to talkspace dot com. Make sure to use the

498
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499
00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:53.359
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500
00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:57.400
<v Speaker 5>true Murder and talkspace dot com. Now, Linda, we talked

501
00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:04.279
<v Speaker 5>about the news tightening around Jerry Marcus and beginning in

502
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:08.799
<v Speaker 5>June eighteenth, eighteen ninety seven. You say that Marcus gave

503
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:14.000
<v Speaker 5>his first confession to Captain David Linley when finally arrested

504
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:17.440
<v Speaker 5>for his last murder in Starkfield. Now, that last murder

505
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:23.400
<v Speaker 5>is a woman named Ellerby, So let's talk about wadin

506
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:27.519
<v Speaker 5>Braun Ellerby and where she was buried.

507
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:31.759
<v Speaker 6>Interestingly, well, Weadine was.

508
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:36.400
<v Speaker 2>Her body was recovered in April of nineteen eighty seven,

509
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:42.519
<v Speaker 2>but she was killed by Jerry Marcus an estimated honor

510
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:48.759
<v Speaker 2>before September sixteenth, nineteen eighty six, so she was in

511
00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:54.240
<v Speaker 2>the ground for several months, but they were after she

512
00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:57.480
<v Speaker 2>came home to his house to use his telephone to

513
00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:01.960
<v Speaker 2>supposedly call and find stronger form of drug, not fine

514
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:07.000
<v Speaker 2>fine cocaine, I believe it was. And they used the

515
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:10.599
<v Speaker 2>phone and she supposedly faked it and held the receiver

516
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:13.839
<v Speaker 2>down and all this stuff, and he knew she had lied.

517
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:16.279
<v Speaker 2>He heard the tone and he knew she had lied,

518
00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:20.359
<v Speaker 2>but he went along with it, you know, and played, Okay, well,

519
00:29:20.440 --> 00:29:24.240
<v Speaker 2>let's go ahead and go and get in the car

520
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:27.319
<v Speaker 2>and go drive back to the bar whatever and check

521
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:30.440
<v Speaker 2>so and so and check it there. So they're leaving,

522
00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:35.759
<v Speaker 2>and the house a lot of these brick houses concrete

523
00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:40.279
<v Speaker 2>block houses in the south will have the staircases to

524
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:44.960
<v Speaker 2>the second story on the outside of the house, which

525
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:47.839
<v Speaker 2>is the way it was with this house. And he

526
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:50.920
<v Speaker 2>made sure she lost her footing going down, and she

527
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:53.720
<v Speaker 2>fell and fell all the way to the bottom from

528
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:57.359
<v Speaker 2>the second story to the first. Now I was there,

529
00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:00.359
<v Speaker 2>and I took pictures and I could see us someone

530
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:03.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, could kill themselves falling. But we're not really

531
00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:06.720
<v Speaker 2>sure she was dead when he drug her into the

532
00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:09.480
<v Speaker 2>timber or not, because he drug her into the timber

533
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:14.839
<v Speaker 2>to sexually assault her, and he never really knew if

534
00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:17.839
<v Speaker 2>she was dead or alive or checked anything like that.

535
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:21.960
<v Speaker 2>But once he was finished with her. He realized she

536
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:26.480
<v Speaker 2>hadn't woken up, you know, and she was probably dead,

537
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:30.640
<v Speaker 2>but again he's not sure, and he decides to bury

538
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.119
<v Speaker 2>her back there in the timber behind the house, you know.

539
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:37.839
<v Speaker 2>But the ground in the south is really clay and

540
00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:41.599
<v Speaker 2>really hard and hard. And he was back there with

541
00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:45.079
<v Speaker 2>sticks trying to dig out a spot to put her in,

542
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:49.440
<v Speaker 2>and he used whatever tools they had at the house

543
00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:52.359
<v Speaker 2>and he made a depression deep enough to lay her

544
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:54.839
<v Speaker 2>body in. But he went back to the house and

545
00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:59.279
<v Speaker 2>got the red plastic tablecloth out of the lower level

546
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:01.519
<v Speaker 2>they've been on table down there, and he wrapped her

547
00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:05.559
<v Speaker 2>body and that and put her in a grave of

548
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:08.480
<v Speaker 2>sorts because it's still, like I said, it's impossible to

549
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:12.079
<v Speaker 2>dig holes in this city, you know, without major tools.

550
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:15.079
<v Speaker 2>The grounds really hard. And he just started covering her

551
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:18.400
<v Speaker 2>with debris and just kept covering her and visiting the

552
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:21.599
<v Speaker 2>body and recovering it and adding more stuff to break

553
00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:23.559
<v Speaker 2>down the body because he knew by that time she

554
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:26.039
<v Speaker 2>was dead. She may not have been dead when he

555
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:29.000
<v Speaker 2>first put her under and started baring her and left

556
00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:29.359
<v Speaker 2>her there.

557
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.039
<v Speaker 6>She may have well bled to death. Oh we just

558
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:33.519
<v Speaker 6>don't know.

559
00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:38.319
<v Speaker 5>Now, right again about another murder. April fourteenth, there's a

560
00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:43.519
<v Speaker 5>missing person's report for a Dorothy Dot. Davis tell us

561
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:45.440
<v Speaker 5>about Dorothy and her demise.

562
00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:50.000
<v Speaker 6>Well, Dorothy, she went by Dot. She was the last one.

563
00:31:50.599 --> 00:31:53.480
<v Speaker 2>And again she was someone he just met while he

564
00:31:53.799 --> 00:31:59.000
<v Speaker 2>was using his girlfriend's car and living at his girlfriend's house.

565
00:31:59.480 --> 00:32:03.920
<v Speaker 2>He met Dot out and started meeting Dot and going

566
00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:08.519
<v Speaker 2>places with Dot. And why it is a good question,

567
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:12.480
<v Speaker 2>because it happened, you know, it wasn't it was, you know, Well,

568
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:16.519
<v Speaker 2>Ellerby was gone and no one knew she was just missing.

569
00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:19.920
<v Speaker 2>No one knew she was buried in Jerry marcus backyard.

570
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:23.359
<v Speaker 2>And he was never he was never hooked to her.

571
00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:27.200
<v Speaker 2>The girlfriend, her girlfriends and such said that he was.

572
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:30.279
<v Speaker 2>She was going on a date with somebody. She didn't

573
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:33.279
<v Speaker 2>really say that it was Jerry Marcus or he was

574
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:36.680
<v Speaker 2>the one she was meeting. And then when Dot died,

575
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:40.200
<v Speaker 2>when he murdered Dot, they hadn't been seeing each other

576
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:43.440
<v Speaker 2>anymore than two and a half to three weeks and

577
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:46.640
<v Speaker 2>he killed her too, So he had just he had

578
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:50.279
<v Speaker 2>just reached the phase where he couldn't stop killing them,

579
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:53.720
<v Speaker 2>and he wasn't sure why he was wanting to do it,

580
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:57.359
<v Speaker 2>but he just couldn't stop, right, you know, in the end,

581
00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:00.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, I guess they all reach a peak. But

582
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:03.440
<v Speaker 2>it's just all you know, he went so many years,

583
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:06.039
<v Speaker 2>seven and a half, eight years with nothing, and then

584
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:08.440
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, he blows and he doesn't really

585
00:33:08.599 --> 00:33:10.720
<v Speaker 2>know why. He doesn't know what happened other than the

586
00:33:10.839 --> 00:33:15.279
<v Speaker 2>fact that he lost his job. That's the only correlating

587
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:18.680
<v Speaker 2>factor there is. He lost his job, and that's why

588
00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:22.440
<v Speaker 2>he killed Francine Davis, or met Franccene Davis.

589
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:27.960
<v Speaker 6>To kill her. So it's interesting. Dot was an innocent party.

590
00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:30.519
<v Speaker 6>She just met him, went out with them a couple

591
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:32.160
<v Speaker 6>of times, and he killed her.

592
00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:36.119
<v Speaker 2>You know, she was They were all innocent girls, women,

593
00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:40.160
<v Speaker 2>they were prostitutes or anything like that. They weren't looking

594
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:44.680
<v Speaker 2>for trouble. They were a waitress of state employee students.

595
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:47.920
<v Speaker 2>There were no reasons. They weren't asking to be killed

596
00:33:48.039 --> 00:33:50.440
<v Speaker 2>or asking to become victims of a serial killer.

597
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:53.759
<v Speaker 5>Let's talk about his capture and then the confession and

598
00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:55.000
<v Speaker 5>how was gained.

599
00:33:55.240 --> 00:33:58.319
<v Speaker 6>Okay, Well, like I said, he was captured.

600
00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:02.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he was questioned repeatedly over the other girls,

601
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:06.960
<v Speaker 2>and they just couldn't hook him. There were no witnesses,

602
00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:10.119
<v Speaker 2>no one actually saying well, hey, I saw it, I

603
00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:13.159
<v Speaker 2>saw them. So there was no real witnesses to tie

604
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:16.079
<v Speaker 2>in to any of those except for the Dot Davis one.

605
00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:19.400
<v Speaker 2>And that's the one where he finally broke down himself.

606
00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:23.599
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't that they had more evidence or a way

607
00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:26.599
<v Speaker 2>to tie him or other witnesses, because that's what there

608
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:29.920
<v Speaker 2>wasn't was any witnesses, but they managed.

609
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:32.440
<v Speaker 6>He managed to lose it himself.

610
00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:35.960
<v Speaker 2>He had reached his peak and he lost it, and

611
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:38.360
<v Speaker 2>he told about He gave up on the one. He

612
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:42.000
<v Speaker 2>told several different stories about Dot Davis, and then he

613
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:44.079
<v Speaker 2>finally gave up on her. He said, Okay, I did

614
00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:44.480
<v Speaker 2>kill it.

615
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:45.039
<v Speaker 6>She did.

616
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:48.840
<v Speaker 2>And that's when he started telling about all the rest.

617
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:50.920
<v Speaker 2>He said, well, then I guess I'll have to tell

618
00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:53.199
<v Speaker 2>you about the rest of them too. And these guys

619
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:55.880
<v Speaker 2>had no idea, David Linley, they had no idea. He

620
00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:59.039
<v Speaker 2>had just finished a class in the FBI headquarters on

621
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:03.239
<v Speaker 2>Sireal homis be serial killers before he ever met Marcus,

622
00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:06.039
<v Speaker 2>though I guess he was fresh with current data to

623
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:07.760
<v Speaker 2>use to follow a serial killer.

624
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:08.920
<v Speaker 6>But no one knew.

625
00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:12.079
<v Speaker 2>No one knew until the very last minute when he

626
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:15.239
<v Speaker 2>confessed that he had killed all those girls all in

627
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:15.800
<v Speaker 2>the past.

628
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:19.440
<v Speaker 5>No one did you write about the correspondence that you

629
00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:23.639
<v Speaker 5>have with Jerry Marcus eventually and the things he told

630
00:35:23.719 --> 00:35:26.599
<v Speaker 5>you after you'd already read and been privy to all

631
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:30.559
<v Speaker 5>the confessions officially and all the information did eat imparted

632
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:35.280
<v Speaker 5>at those confessions. Let's talk about his justification that he

633
00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:38.800
<v Speaker 5>talks about and that he says to these Al Kendall

634
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:43.320
<v Speaker 5>and David Linley and other others in his confession. What

635
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:46.760
<v Speaker 5>is his justification? Why does he do this? What seems

636
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:49.480
<v Speaker 5>to be the pattern in terms of whose fault and

637
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:50.800
<v Speaker 5>why this occurs?

638
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, I can go over a million different times

639
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:58.519
<v Speaker 2>and you can't pin it down to one thing.

640
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:02.480
<v Speaker 6>Or even two, or any instigating factors.

641
00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:06.480
<v Speaker 2>It could be other than employment and losing a job

642
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:10.119
<v Speaker 2>or gaining a job, but that doesn't that's never been

643
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:14.039
<v Speaker 2>proven before as being a factor in someone who's a

644
00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:18.079
<v Speaker 2>serial killer, that they are a repeat offender. For work

645
00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:22.280
<v Speaker 2>is kind of what he is. There isn't there isn't

646
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:26.960
<v Speaker 2>any specific thing. He just loses control and he doesn't

647
00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:29.239
<v Speaker 2>try to stop. You know, with the first two girls,

648
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:32.559
<v Speaker 2>I think he tried to stop during those several years

649
00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:35.360
<v Speaker 2>he tried to get control of himself. That he realized

650
00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:37.480
<v Speaker 2>that what he had done wasn't what he should be doing,

651
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:40.079
<v Speaker 2>and he tried to get control, but then he lost

652
00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:43.039
<v Speaker 2>it again, and once it was gone the second time,

653
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:46.880
<v Speaker 2>he just started a downhill roll as far as one

654
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:50.000
<v Speaker 2>right after another, because he didn't, you know, once he

655
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:54.519
<v Speaker 2>stepped over the line. The third time, the real time,

656
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:58.079
<v Speaker 2>that was when he just started one right after another.

657
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:02.960
<v Speaker 6>And he never ask him repeatedly, why why do you

658
00:37:03.159 --> 00:37:05.280
<v Speaker 6>do it? Why do you feel the need, And he says,

659
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:06.880
<v Speaker 6>I'm just that way.

660
00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:11.400
<v Speaker 2>I just feel like I should kill that's all. And

661
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:15.000
<v Speaker 2>there's no other rationale for it. I mean, I'm hoping

662
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:19.639
<v Speaker 2>to link him what was written about in this book, right.

663
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:22.559
<v Speaker 5>You write that what I was getting to was that

664
00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:26.159
<v Speaker 5>in each one of these instances, there's something that compels

665
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:28.800
<v Speaker 5>him in terms of his anger, and he just can't

666
00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:32.000
<v Speaker 5>turn back. But they are very much like when.

667
00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:32.440
<v Speaker 6>He was young.

668
00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:37.480
<v Speaker 5>You write that there were small, insignificant, relatively insignificant events

669
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:41.840
<v Speaker 5>which created this murderous anger. A woman stole sixty dollars

670
00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:44.400
<v Speaker 5>that he is driving her around, and then when he

671
00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:46.880
<v Speaker 5>went to look for his sixty dollars. He says, she

672
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:49.719
<v Speaker 5>admitted that she stole the sixty dollars that would pay

673
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:52.639
<v Speaker 5>him back. They have sex, he said, They say they

674
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:55.920
<v Speaker 5>make love, describes as making love, and then he has

675
00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:58.320
<v Speaker 5>to kill her. The other woman lied to him, The

676
00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:03.280
<v Speaker 5>other woman possibly cheated on him. So for verrely insignificant

677
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:05.199
<v Speaker 5>reasons he was willing to.

678
00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Kill and things he created himself. Yeah, certainly, you know,

679
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:11.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we don't know if that's even true. But

680
00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:15.559
<v Speaker 2>the way he describes it, I mean, is insignificant. It

681
00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:18.320
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make any sense why someone would kill someone else

682
00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:19.800
<v Speaker 2>for such a trivial reason.

683
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:23.239
<v Speaker 5>And as you write, it's very unusual for a serial

684
00:38:23.320 --> 00:38:27.599
<v Speaker 5>killer to prey on people that he's intimate with, dated

685
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:31.760
<v Speaker 5>played tennis with, recommended by Za knows, the family, knows

686
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:32.280
<v Speaker 5>the family.

687
00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:34.960
<v Speaker 2>And yet and he went back to his comfort zone,

688
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:37.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, he left his comfort zone of Tuskegee and

689
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:40.400
<v Speaker 2>where he'd been before him, where he had felt all

690
00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:43.800
<v Speaker 2>those initial emotions, and they went to Tennessee. But then

691
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:47.159
<v Speaker 2>he came back to Tuskegee, So he came back to

692
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:51.039
<v Speaker 2>his comfort zone. After having stepped out and killed somewhere else,

693
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:51.960
<v Speaker 2>then he came back.

694
00:38:52.519 --> 00:38:55.239
<v Speaker 6>So it's interesting returning to the scene of the crime.

695
00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:59.119
<v Speaker 5>You interestingly right again, not to look for excuses, but

696
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:04.519
<v Speaker 5>more so for reasons psychologically connecting the behavior at these

697
00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:07.639
<v Speaker 5>crimes to the behavior that he witnessed from his father

698
00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:11.679
<v Speaker 5>beating his mother. In particular, this brown belt tell us

699
00:39:11.719 --> 00:39:14.639
<v Speaker 5>the significance of the brown belt leather belt.

700
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:18.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, his dad always wore it, the brown leather belt,

701
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:22.119
<v Speaker 2>and I have seen it, but I was not allowed

702
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:25.239
<v Speaker 2>to take its in the hands of the sheriff of

703
00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:28.320
<v Speaker 2>that counting, or at least it was. He wouldn't let

704
00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:31.320
<v Speaker 2>me have it in evidence. But anyway, when he was

705
00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:33.840
<v Speaker 2>a kid, they would listen for the snap of that

706
00:39:34.039 --> 00:39:36.559
<v Speaker 2>belt being pulled out, you know, when his father would

707
00:39:36.599 --> 00:39:39.119
<v Speaker 2>pull it out of his belt loops. The snap that

708
00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:42.360
<v Speaker 2>that belt would make would make those children jump. You

709
00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:44.880
<v Speaker 2>know that they knew that that's what that meant, that

710
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:47.440
<v Speaker 2>they were going to get whipped, or mom was going

711
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:49.800
<v Speaker 2>to get whipped, or mam had done something. He's always

712
00:39:49.880 --> 00:39:53.239
<v Speaker 2>Mama done something, you know. So I think it was

713
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:57.360
<v Speaker 2>the sound of it was just embedded in his brain

714
00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:01.320
<v Speaker 2>from youth and the pains that that would be related

715
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:04.519
<v Speaker 2>to him if he didn't have his if he didn't

716
00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:07.280
<v Speaker 2>have the belt in his hand and could control it

717
00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:10.599
<v Speaker 2>that way that he would get struck himself, or he

718
00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:12.840
<v Speaker 2>would be injured, or his mother would be injured. But

719
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:15.360
<v Speaker 2>if he could just wear the same belt and use

720
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:17.960
<v Speaker 2>the same belt in a different way, than he could

721
00:40:18.039 --> 00:40:19.800
<v Speaker 2>keep from being injured by it.

722
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.440
<v Speaker 5>Again, let's use this as an opportunity to stop for

723
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:23.280
<v Speaker 5>these messages.

724
00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:26.800
<v Speaker 7>Wait the Lucky land slots. You can get lucky just

725
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:27.679
<v Speaker 7>about anywhere.

726
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:31.480
<v Speaker 3>It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the

727
00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:33.320
<v Speaker 3>weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up here

728
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:36.400
<v Speaker 3>a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that.

729
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:38.920
<v Speaker 3>It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I

730
00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:41.320
<v Speaker 3>suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right,

731
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:43.800
<v Speaker 3>and struck getting lucky thank for.

732
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:47.079
<v Speaker 7>Free at lucky landslipes dot com. Are you feeling lucky?

733
00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:50.840
<v Speaker 7>No purchase necessary void We're prohibited by Law eighteen plus.

734
00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:53.679
<v Speaker 7>Terms and conditions apply. I see website for details.

735
00:40:54.559 --> 00:40:57.000
<v Speaker 5>When I mentioned the belt, though, it's you have a

736
00:40:57.559 --> 00:41:02.199
<v Speaker 5>very vivid graphics scene where he goes to strangle this woman.

737
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:05.159
<v Speaker 5>Unbeknownst to her, he reaches in the back seat for

738
00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:07.880
<v Speaker 5>a leather belt and wraps it around her neck. This

739
00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:10.400
<v Speaker 5>is one of his techniques, isn't it correct?

740
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:14.639
<v Speaker 2>He came at her from behind, Like I said, I

741
00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:19.760
<v Speaker 2>believe they were drinking in the car or have been,

742
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:24.360
<v Speaker 2>and she was relaxed. She wasn't thinking she was in

743
00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:28.960
<v Speaker 2>the car with a killer. And he was in tennis shorts,

744
00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:32.280
<v Speaker 2>so it had no belt loops. So he had the

745
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:37.400
<v Speaker 2>belt laying in the floorboard behind her, and he reached

746
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:40.280
<v Speaker 2>behind her, and she wasn't sure what he was doing

747
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:43.920
<v Speaker 2>back there, and he's moving some stuff around to loop

748
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:46.360
<v Speaker 2>it and then slip it back over her neck and

749
00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:50.480
<v Speaker 2>strangle her from behind basically, I mean when she turned

750
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:53.039
<v Speaker 2>towards him, he dropped it over her and he held

751
00:41:53.079 --> 00:41:55.960
<v Speaker 2>it in his right hand, and he supposedly put his

752
00:41:56.159 --> 00:41:58.679
<v Speaker 2>other hand on her shoulder and strangled her like that

753
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:01.239
<v Speaker 2>he turned her in the seat towards him.

754
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:03.239
<v Speaker 6>That these are just his descriptions.

755
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:07.119
<v Speaker 5>We didn't talk about the trial, but you briefly mentioned

756
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:10.599
<v Speaker 5>the trial May thirtieth, nineteen eighty nine for the murders

757
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:15.119
<v Speaker 5>in Alabama. And he was tested psychiatric testing, and there's

758
00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:18.199
<v Speaker 5>some we'll talk about what those with that diagnosis was,

759
00:42:18.599 --> 00:42:21.039
<v Speaker 5>but he was a sentence it in Alabama to a

760
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:25.400
<v Speaker 5>life sentence, yet he is detained. He's on a detainer

761
00:42:25.559 --> 00:42:29.159
<v Speaker 5>for the other two states, Mississippi and Tennessee. Isn't that correct?

762
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:34.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm not sure about the Tennessee ruling because it

763
00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:37.400
<v Speaker 2>had already been you know, they would have to bring

764
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:40.000
<v Speaker 2>him out of prison to send you know, put him

765
00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:42.639
<v Speaker 2>in court again. I mean that would have to be heard, sure,

766
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:46.079
<v Speaker 2>and as a different state. So the laws, you know,

767
00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:50.079
<v Speaker 2>the rulings could be different in statute and time. But

768
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:54.159
<v Speaker 2>the one in Mississippi is first because that's where he

769
00:42:54.440 --> 00:42:58.239
<v Speaker 2>was captured, right, and that is a life sentence because

770
00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:01.079
<v Speaker 2>I believe at the time they were having some sort

771
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:03.760
<v Speaker 2>of a legal thing going on with the death penalty,

772
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:07.280
<v Speaker 2>so the death penalty was suspended at that time or

773
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:09.760
<v Speaker 2>frozen or whatever word they choose to use.

774
00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:12.159
<v Speaker 6>So he got life imprisonment.

775
00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:15.000
<v Speaker 2>But the way the judge wrote it, he said, I'll

776
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:18.559
<v Speaker 2>make sure that you never get out again in the society.

777
00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:22.199
<v Speaker 6>But after when he went to jail for that, then the.

778
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:26.920
<v Speaker 2>Other proceedings in Tuskegee and all of that, they weren't

779
00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:30.960
<v Speaker 2>really heard as cases because there weren't no witnesses, there

780
00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:34.840
<v Speaker 2>were no victims, there was only him, So they weren't

781
00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:38.360
<v Speaker 2>really heard. He was just it was just charged in

782
00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:41.840
<v Speaker 2>the Mississippi case. Now this has just been recent. I

783
00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:46.119
<v Speaker 2>mean he's had he's filed charges against the Mississippi Correctional

784
00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:51.400
<v Speaker 2>System a couple of different times from Mishandledmand and that's

785
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:54.199
<v Speaker 2>been since he's been in the only one he was

786
00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:57.719
<v Speaker 2>seriously tried for and convicted of was the Mississippi case.

787
00:43:58.039 --> 00:43:59.880
<v Speaker 6>And that'd be Dot Davis, Dorothy Davis.

788
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:04.719
<v Speaker 5>Let's talk about your visit to the Parshman Penitentiary in

789
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:08.960
<v Speaker 5>Mississippi to visit Jerry Marcus and how did this come about?

790
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:13.039
<v Speaker 5>Whose suggestion was this? Let's talk about doctor Eeger and

791
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:15.280
<v Speaker 5>how he convinced you to do.

792
00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:15.800
<v Speaker 3>This and why.

793
00:44:16.119 --> 00:44:18.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, like I said, I met Steve Egger when he

794
00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:22.599
<v Speaker 2>was the instructor in the class, and I had never

795
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:25.800
<v Speaker 2>really I'd studied a little bit about serial killers, but

796
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:28.159
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't on the top of my list. But I

797
00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:31.719
<v Speaker 2>really developed an interest in it, and he helped me

798
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:35.400
<v Speaker 2>go through the paperwork and helped me determine what was

799
00:44:35.559 --> 00:44:37.920
<v Speaker 2>right and wasn't, or what could be used and whatnot.

800
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Because see, initially, initially I wrote the chapter for Jerry

801
00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:47.840
<v Speaker 2>Marcus in his two thousand textbook, and that was the.

802
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:49.519
<v Speaker 6>First time it had ever been in print.

803
00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:54.880
<v Speaker 2>But it's written in a format that doctor Eger followed

804
00:44:54.920 --> 00:44:57.559
<v Speaker 2>for each of the serial killers that were a chapter

805
00:44:57.760 --> 00:44:58.360
<v Speaker 2>in that book.

806
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:01.800
<v Speaker 5>So you were went to the prison to visit him.

807
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:04.639
<v Speaker 5>What was that experience, like, what did you what do

808
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:06.480
<v Speaker 5>you expect and what did you experience?

809
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:10.239
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know, Steve said, doctor Egger. He said, well,

810
00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:12.039
<v Speaker 2>you should go down and visit him, And I said,

811
00:45:12.119 --> 00:45:12.760
<v Speaker 2>how do you do that?

812
00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:13.519
<v Speaker 5>I didn't know.

813
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:16.800
<v Speaker 2>So I got a hold of the public Information officer

814
00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:20.159
<v Speaker 2>who sent me the proper forms to fill out and

815
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:22.360
<v Speaker 2>I had to fill out this. They had to fill

816
00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:25.440
<v Speaker 2>out that and all these forms. And they had to

817
00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:29.880
<v Speaker 2>ask him because he'd never had any visitors, right, he

818
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:34.199
<v Speaker 2>had to consent to see me. Now, I don't know

819
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:37.840
<v Speaker 2>anything about I don't know anything about that prison, harsh

820
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:42.039
<v Speaker 2>From Penitentiary, but it supposedly is one of the strictest

821
00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:45.559
<v Speaker 2>in the state you know of Mississippi. Sure, but he

822
00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:49.159
<v Speaker 2>gave me permission. So I went down there and it

823
00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:51.599
<v Speaker 2>was just it was almost I can't describe it. It

824
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.320
<v Speaker 2>was just really strange because I was, you know, I

825
00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:57.039
<v Speaker 2>was in business clothes. Khakis and roll up sleep shirt

826
00:45:57.079 --> 00:45:59.760
<v Speaker 2>and all this stuff. But it was like families, and

827
00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:02.880
<v Speaker 2>you got on a bus. You went through the first

828
00:46:03.159 --> 00:46:06.559
<v Speaker 2>level of security, and these they had these little buildings

829
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:08.599
<v Speaker 2>attached to each other, and you went through the first

830
00:46:08.679 --> 00:46:12.360
<v Speaker 2>level and then practically a body search, and then you

831
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:14.480
<v Speaker 2>get in the bus to go. And the only thing

832
00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:16.440
<v Speaker 2>that I had was a pad of paper and a pen.

833
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:18.840
<v Speaker 2>They said, can't take either once, so I had to leave.

834
00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:22.280
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't take anything. So you go through at least

835
00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:26.599
<v Speaker 2>five different of those little cabins for body checks and searches,

836
00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:28.719
<v Speaker 2>and threw machines and this and that and the other.

837
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:31.639
<v Speaker 2>But the others were like the other people visiting were

838
00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:35.159
<v Speaker 2>like families with little kids and everything. But the family

839
00:46:35.320 --> 00:46:38.920
<v Speaker 2>dog and groups and big brown bags of stuff, which

840
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:40.480
<v Speaker 2>I didn't relate to its time.

841
00:46:40.760 --> 00:46:43.239
<v Speaker 6>And then we finally get through all those levels of security.

842
00:46:43.639 --> 00:46:47.519
<v Speaker 2>Then it all opens up into the first real building,

843
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:50.559
<v Speaker 2>real building down there in the Delta, a big concrete

844
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:53.360
<v Speaker 2>building like a gymnasium, and that's.

845
00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:53.760
<v Speaker 6>What it was.

846
00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:56.639
<v Speaker 2>And it had the pull down hoops, and it had

847
00:46:56.679 --> 00:46:59.840
<v Speaker 2>the pullout wooden seats, the old fashioned wooden seats, and

848
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:03.119
<v Speaker 2>they were pulled out and there were tables and chairs

849
00:47:03.239 --> 00:47:06.559
<v Speaker 2>scattered everywhere, and it was just like a big picnic.

850
00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:09.719
<v Speaker 2>And they just turned everybody loose in the room with

851
00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:14.519
<v Speaker 2>each other. So, you know, I've been expecting back in Illinois,

852
00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:17.440
<v Speaker 2>I've been expecting a little more like maybe sheet of

853
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:20.599
<v Speaker 2>glass and a phone. But no, No, they turned everybody

854
00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:23.960
<v Speaker 2>loose together, and everybody has a fine old time. And so,

855
00:47:24.559 --> 00:47:27.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, I actually met him and sat beside him

856
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:29.159
<v Speaker 2>and talked to him. What was I like?

857
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:33.880
<v Speaker 5>You had corresponded with him for over a year, years.

858
00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:36.639
<v Speaker 2>Years and years. Well, he said, you don't look like

859
00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:39.079
<v Speaker 2>I thought you would. And I said, well, I can't

860
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:41.880
<v Speaker 2>say that because I saw your pictures already. And we laughed,

861
00:47:41.960 --> 00:47:44.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, because that was my whole goal to get

862
00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:48.000
<v Speaker 2>him know that he can relax and talk to me

863
00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:51.920
<v Speaker 2>and talk, you know, And so I just made a

864
00:47:52.039 --> 00:47:55.280
<v Speaker 2>couple of jokes. He was, he was so neat, you know,

865
00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:59.880
<v Speaker 2>he's he has a real strong lean towards narcissism.

866
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:02.599
<v Speaker 6>He always has, even when he was a kid.

867
00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:07.280
<v Speaker 2>And when he when I first met him, his uniform

868
00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:10.519
<v Speaker 2>it was spotless. The one a thing wrong with his uniform.

869
00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:15.159
<v Speaker 2>It was practically creased in the knees. His shoes were clean,

870
00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:18.119
<v Speaker 2>his socks were clean, his hand looked like he'd been

871
00:48:18.320 --> 00:48:21.920
<v Speaker 2>to a manicurist, and everything he looked really neat and clean.

872
00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:24.039
<v Speaker 6>And I was just kind of looking at him sideways,

873
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:25.320
<v Speaker 6>and he said, well, what do you what are you

874
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:27.039
<v Speaker 6>looking for? What do you keep looking at me like

875
00:48:27.159 --> 00:48:28.920
<v Speaker 6>that for? And I said, I said, I don't know.

876
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:30.519
<v Speaker 6>I guess I'm kind of disappointed.

877
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:33.480
<v Speaker 2>I expectedly blood dripping from your fingers or from your

878
00:48:33.559 --> 00:48:35.840
<v Speaker 2>mouth or something. And he just thought that was the

879
00:48:35.960 --> 00:48:38.320
<v Speaker 2>funniest thing. And he just started laughing. He thought that

880
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:40.559
<v Speaker 2>was really funny. And I said, there, that's what I

881
00:48:40.639 --> 00:48:42.079
<v Speaker 2>want you to do. I want you to relax, I

882
00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:43.719
<v Speaker 2>want you to laugh, but I want you just to

883
00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:47.440
<v Speaker 2>talk to me. And we we just talked about stuff,

884
00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:50.639
<v Speaker 2>you know about you know, I couldn't really say, well,

885
00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:52.679
<v Speaker 2>can we talk about so ands over? Can we talked

886
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:55.719
<v Speaker 2>about songs? Because we'd already done all that. You'd already

887
00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:59.760
<v Speaker 2>written everything out, every page and rewritten and written.

888
00:48:59.719 --> 00:49:03.440
<v Speaker 6>So it really wasn't like that. But we just basically talked.

889
00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:05.000
<v Speaker 6>And I said, so, what do you expect to.

890
00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:05.599
<v Speaker 3>Do with all this?

891
00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:08.239
<v Speaker 6>I mean, with this with here? I said, are you

892
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:09.559
<v Speaker 6>here like forever, and.

893
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:11.880
<v Speaker 2>He said, oh no, I'll be going on pictic with

894
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:14.360
<v Speaker 2>my kids soon with my grandkids, and we're going to

895
00:49:14.440 --> 00:49:16.320
<v Speaker 2>meet out there and we're going to see that table

896
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:16.760
<v Speaker 2>over there.

897
00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:19.320
<v Speaker 6>Da da da da da. You know, just dreamland. He

898
00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:21.920
<v Speaker 6>has no concept that he's there forever.

899
00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:27.119
<v Speaker 5>You know, you talk about interviews with his mother and

900
00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:30.519
<v Speaker 5>his aunt. Yes, you say that everything that was going

901
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:33.280
<v Speaker 5>to be said that was said. That information about the

902
00:49:33.400 --> 00:49:38.199
<v Speaker 5>murders expanded from those confessions he gave to you in

903
00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:41.920
<v Speaker 5>that correspondence, so that the interview you had was anti

904
00:49:42.039 --> 00:49:44.880
<v Speaker 5>climatic in that regard. Well, what about the interviews with

905
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:46.440
<v Speaker 5>the mother and the aunt?

906
00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:47.360
<v Speaker 3>What was that like?

907
00:49:47.800 --> 00:49:49.199
<v Speaker 6>Well, I wanted to do it right.

908
00:49:49.480 --> 00:49:52.159
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to be respectful to these ladies for giving

909
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:54.559
<v Speaker 2>me the time to talk to me, because they, like

910
00:49:54.679 --> 00:49:57.760
<v Speaker 2>everyone else, was totally shocked and really were kind of

911
00:49:57.800 --> 00:49:59.719
<v Speaker 2>out of touch with it. I really didn't believe he'd

912
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:04.800
<v Speaker 2>done it right, so they were willing to talk to me.

913
00:50:05.239 --> 00:50:07.320
<v Speaker 2>I took pictures with them. As a matter of fact,

914
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:09.719
<v Speaker 2>I took my mother with me on the trip down

915
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:12.719
<v Speaker 2>there because she's from Mississippi, and I just figured that, well,

916
00:50:12.840 --> 00:50:14.159
<v Speaker 2>maybe they'd feel a little calmer.

917
00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:16.679
<v Speaker 6>You know, we could all just all the old ladies

918
00:50:16.840 --> 00:50:17.719
<v Speaker 6>having a discussion.

919
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:21.000
<v Speaker 2>So we sat down and there in the ants front

920
00:50:21.079 --> 00:50:23.719
<v Speaker 2>room and we talked, you know, for a couple of hours.

921
00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:26.519
<v Speaker 2>I brought them both a bouquet of flowers, and I

922
00:50:26.679 --> 00:50:29.039
<v Speaker 2>brought them some sort of a coffee cake that I

923
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:31.719
<v Speaker 2>got down at the bakery and all this stuff, because

924
00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:32.480
<v Speaker 2>I wanted.

925
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:34.039
<v Speaker 6>To be respectful to these women.

926
00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:37.320
<v Speaker 2>But they in turn answered my questions that I had

927
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:39.840
<v Speaker 2>about Jerry, you know, when did he start? And they

928
00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:42.360
<v Speaker 2>related to me about the cats with the tail on

929
00:50:42.519 --> 00:50:45.360
<v Speaker 2>fire and how I used to torture animals and how

930
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:48.000
<v Speaker 2>they find animals that were dead. That they knew that

931
00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Jerry had been busy again and such as that. But

932
00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:53.519
<v Speaker 2>they said they never dreamed that that would lead to

933
00:50:53.639 --> 00:50:56.199
<v Speaker 2>what it did lead to, and that would be that

934
00:50:56.320 --> 00:50:58.000
<v Speaker 2>he would start killing human beings.

935
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:00.800
<v Speaker 6>I don't think that really. They just thought that that

936
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:01.559
<v Speaker 6>was a phase.

937
00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:05.239
<v Speaker 2>You know, in the darkened room and the covered windows

938
00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:07.800
<v Speaker 2>and the anger spurts that he used to have. They

939
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:09.719
<v Speaker 2>just thought that he would grow out of it, that

940
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:12.440
<v Speaker 2>it was just a phase. They never dreamed he would

941
00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:15.679
<v Speaker 2>grow more so into it than he ever had.

942
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:20.159
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, that must have been a fascinating conversation, but also

943
00:51:20.679 --> 00:51:24.039
<v Speaker 5>the resignment of those two people, like you say, to

944
00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:28.599
<v Speaker 5>be inextricably involved in some of this of his murderous behavior,

945
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:33.760
<v Speaker 5>he introducing the one woman and burying a victim in

946
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:36.440
<v Speaker 5>the backyard of the home of a family home.

947
00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:37.159
<v Speaker 2>Right right.

948
00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:40.719
<v Speaker 6>Ye, Well, they were equally shocked about all of that,

949
00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:42.119
<v Speaker 6>and they just they.

950
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:46.119
<v Speaker 2>Were just still so sure that he really couldn't have

951
00:51:46.280 --> 00:51:48.679
<v Speaker 2>done that, you know, I mean, they just kept trying

952
00:51:48.760 --> 00:51:52.000
<v Speaker 2>to trying to rational that somehow it just still had

953
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:54.400
<v Speaker 2>to be a mistake, that he couldn't have really done that.

954
00:51:54.760 --> 00:51:57.559
<v Speaker 2>Someday they're going to find out that Jerry was innocent.

955
00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:00.599
<v Speaker 2>He isn't and wasn't, you know, But they were just

956
00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:04.599
<v Speaker 2>because he had always been the perfect son and always

957
00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:07.599
<v Speaker 2>been the perfect nephew and always been there for to

958
00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:11.800
<v Speaker 2>help everyone, and including the neighbors, and so it was

959
00:52:11.960 --> 00:52:15.119
<v Speaker 2>just it was just these ladies tried to give me

960
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:18.079
<v Speaker 2>as much information. They answered every question that I had,

961
00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:22.559
<v Speaker 2>and especially with Francina, believe you know, she said I

962
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:25.199
<v Speaker 2>had no idea, you know, she said, I just knew

963
00:52:25.239 --> 00:52:27.199
<v Speaker 2>her from church. I thought that they would be a

964
00:52:27.320 --> 00:52:29.119
<v Speaker 2>nice pair, and they were going to go out and

965
00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:31.639
<v Speaker 2>eat out. She thought, I thought that was a good thing,

966
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:35.559
<v Speaker 2>but then it wasn't. But then again, that was many

967
00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:39.039
<v Speaker 2>years later, so they she had no idea that what

968
00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:42.159
<v Speaker 2>she had, you know, the introduction had ended up, and

969
00:52:42.679 --> 00:52:43.639
<v Speaker 2>this is what happened.

970
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:46.960
<v Speaker 5>And his aunt thought he was such a fine nephew.

971
00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:50.559
<v Speaker 5>You right at the very end with your visit with

972
00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:54.639
<v Speaker 5>Jerry Marcus that again that he was charming, exhibited all

973
00:52:54.679 --> 00:52:56.920
<v Speaker 5>those things you knew you would find, but you were

974
00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:00.480
<v Speaker 5>seeing him in person for the first time, and and

975
00:53:01.039 --> 00:53:03.880
<v Speaker 5>you saw his well manicured hands, and he was dressed

976
00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:07.920
<v Speaker 5>well and all appearances. But you realized in the circumstances

977
00:53:07.960 --> 00:53:11.360
<v Speaker 5>of that visiting room that he certainly could have ended

978
00:53:11.400 --> 00:53:14.519
<v Speaker 5>your life quite easily with those bare hands that us

979
00:53:14.719 --> 00:53:16.880
<v Speaker 5>he used to strangle other women to death.

980
00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:19.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, now you got to remember this was in a

981
00:53:20.039 --> 00:53:23.960
<v Speaker 2>gymnasium and we were sitting on wooden pull out seat,

982
00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:27.559
<v Speaker 2>so it was like so casual. I mean, it was

983
00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:31.239
<v Speaker 2>just like there were no guards anywhere around except the

984
00:53:31.360 --> 00:53:34.679
<v Speaker 2>far doors, you know, so he could have really done anything.

985
00:53:34.760 --> 00:53:36.519
<v Speaker 2>And that's why I told him, I guess you know,

986
00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:38.480
<v Speaker 2>I said, well, I guess you can do about anything.

987
00:53:38.559 --> 00:53:41.400
<v Speaker 2>You wanted now, and he said, yeah, I could kill you. Wow,

988
00:53:41.800 --> 00:53:43.880
<v Speaker 2>he said, you're the only other woman I know now,

989
00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:46.159
<v Speaker 2>he said, I could kill you, he said, but then

990
00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:48.559
<v Speaker 2>he said, I wouldn't get to talk to you anymore.

991
00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:51.119
<v Speaker 2>Admitted that he liked to talk to me, but like

992
00:53:51.320 --> 00:53:55.000
<v Speaker 2>I said, we haven't spoken since there was the law

993
00:53:55.079 --> 00:54:01.039
<v Speaker 2>enforcement in Tennessee who sought to talk to him directly

994
00:54:01.599 --> 00:54:03.760
<v Speaker 2>without saying anything.

995
00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:06.800
<v Speaker 6>To me, and he considered that offensive.

996
00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:10.039
<v Speaker 2>And he has not spoken to me since that time

997
00:54:10.519 --> 00:54:13.880
<v Speaker 2>or answered any letters or just for a while, I

998
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:17.159
<v Speaker 2>sent him, you know, occasionally I deposit money in his account.

999
00:54:17.559 --> 00:54:19.960
<v Speaker 2>I'd send him money for personal stuff and all. But

1000
00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:23.239
<v Speaker 2>he never spoke to me again after that. So that

1001
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:26.840
<v Speaker 2>also tells me that there's probably something else going on

1002
00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:30.400
<v Speaker 2>in Tennessee to relate him to also, since it's shut

1003
00:54:30.519 --> 00:54:32.800
<v Speaker 2>him right down and he didn't want to talk at all.

1004
00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:35.079
<v Speaker 6>So chances are there something going.

1005
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:38.440
<v Speaker 5>On absolutely or had been something going on. Did he

1006
00:54:38.599 --> 00:54:40.079
<v Speaker 5>know that you were writing this book?

1007
00:54:40.360 --> 00:54:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Yes, he did from day one, from day one, because

1008
00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:46.880
<v Speaker 2>I started writing to him as Jane Doe, you know,

1009
00:54:47.239 --> 00:54:49.119
<v Speaker 2>and I told him, I said, I you know, it

1010
00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:52.039
<v Speaker 2>was three or four letters before I was finally willing

1011
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:54.079
<v Speaker 2>to give him my name, and then I had a

1012
00:54:54.159 --> 00:54:56.679
<v Speaker 2>special PO box and I had that po box for

1013
00:54:56.800 --> 00:54:59.159
<v Speaker 2>all those years. And that was the sole reason for

1014
00:54:59.239 --> 00:55:02.039
<v Speaker 2>the po box was to ride him and get lettered

1015
00:55:02.119 --> 00:55:02.679
<v Speaker 2>back from him.

1016
00:55:02.840 --> 00:55:06.039
<v Speaker 5>It's very interesting your book. You we just touched on them,

1017
00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:10.920
<v Speaker 5>but elaborate detailed confessions of what he did, how he

1018
00:55:11.079 --> 00:55:15.559
<v Speaker 5>killed these people, the conversations he had beforehand, and most interestingly,

1019
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:19.840
<v Speaker 5>his thoughts behind his behavior and his actions. I want

1020
00:55:19.880 --> 00:55:22.320
<v Speaker 5>to thank you very much, Linda lu Long for coming

1021
00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:26.159
<v Speaker 5>on and talking about the Skegee Strangler, the nicest serial

1022
00:55:26.280 --> 00:55:29.119
<v Speaker 5>killer they ever met. This is a Wild Blue Press release.

1023
00:55:29.480 --> 00:55:32.159
<v Speaker 5>But when did this book? When? Was it released on.

1024
00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:35.800
<v Speaker 2>August the second, twenty two, nineteen twenty two or twenty.

1025
00:55:35.599 --> 00:55:39.320
<v Speaker 5>Twenty two, just a few weeks ago? Yes, thank you

1026
00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:43.679
<v Speaker 5>so much, Linda lu Long, The Tuskegee Strangler, the nicest

1027
00:55:43.719 --> 00:55:46.239
<v Speaker 5>serial killer they ever met. You have a great evening.

1028
00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:48.599
<v Speaker 5>Thank you so much for this interview, and good night,

1029
00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:50.559
<v Speaker 5>Thank you, bye bye bye bye.