Speaker 1: All right, folks, welcome in to the Fight Freaks You
Night Recap live edition. As promised, we are here on
the Sunday night of Memorial Day Weekend. I am merely
the somewhat capable host TJ Reeves. Hello to Big Dan Raphael,
our insider Fight Preaks You Night is his substack and
is also his newsletter. Make sure that you are on
both of those right now as we rock along here
on this Sunday night. Big Dan, how are you? How
are things here on this Sunday evening?
Speaker 2: TJ? I'm good now, I like I like our experimentation.
That's what it was for the people.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go live. People, we said we were gonna
go live. We're here live there for the audio. That's correct,
so so correct. So this is a live thing for now,
exclusive on YouTube for a little while. And again, if
you're hearing us on podcasts, come find the video because
we did that earlier in the night. Podcast went out
as normal on the normal timeline if you're hearing it.
But we did this as a live video as part
of Memorial Day Weekend. And there's a couple of reasons
for this. Number One, a little bit of a slower
weekend number two. It's a holiday. I'm trying to cram
things in, so is Dan, and we said, you know what,
let's do it live. And we've got fight results, including
an upset of Josh Taylor, which we didn't see coming.
We've got fight news, we've got Ali listen to nostalgia.
We're going to get to all of that on the program.
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there as we go in and come off of weekend,
do our best there with that, all right, so with that,
let's do what we do. Let's get into it here
for a little bit again understatement of the night, I
didn't see it coming. You didn't see it coming. What
happened to Josh Taylor here is he lost by decision
to someone named Echo Usmann from Bobswana by way of England,
who fought harder and better down the stretch of the fight, right,
and then what happened.
Speaker 2: What happened is Josh Taylor is finding out, like the
rest of us, that he's seen better days. I mean,
it's it's not a knock on Josh Taylor. It doesn't
detract from the great accomplishments that he's had in his career.
But these things happened to all boxers. And you know,
Estumon may not have been a household name, but Josh
Taylor knows him well. They had been members together on
the Team GB and the Amateurs. They sparred together, They've
known each other and Josh Taylor obviously went on to
great exploits as a professional. But I think the writing
is now on the wall. I don't know if he
has to retire. I mean he may, but the reality
is when you're at that level that that he has
been at and you suffer three consecutive defeats. Really, most
people think it should before because the first the fight
before that first official loss was the highly controversial decision
that he won against Jack Cadroll in their first fight
back in twenty twenty two. And also it's not even
a matter that sometimes when guys lose, they they decide, Okay,
you know what, I've had enough in this weight class.
Maybe it's been a struggle to be on weight. I'm
going to move up. Well, he did move up for
this fight, and he didn't have success in the welterweight division.
And no, no knock on usaman, but it's not like
he is a top top contender, good fighter. Seemed like
he was there to win. Obviously. He showed to thirty
chin and great resolve and and really came on strong
in the second half of the fight, which is how
he won it. But I'm not going to compare him
to you know, other like elite welterweights of today and yesteryear.
So this is a writing on the walkinds.
Speaker 1: This was set up for Josh Taylor to get back
on track and get a win, and the worst possible
thing happened. Correct.
Speaker 2: It's his first fight with a new promoter. Queensberry Promotions
did not like try to sandbag him by matching him
with a guy he wasn't gonna be. The idea was,
let's give the fans a good fight against a guy
that Josh should be like, you know, a seventy thirty
favorite against so our guy we think is gonna win.
But at least they'll be entertaining and we'll see what
he's got in this weight class and we'll we'll take care,
you know, take care of his business, and we'll move
him onto a bigger fight. And now that's out the
window because, like I said, he's got the official win
that most think he lost against Catterall. He looked terrible
in a loss when he lost the the WBO belt
and the lineal title to tia Fimo Lopez. Then he
lost legit and wide to Caterall when they finally got
the rematch together in a non title fight, and now
he has this loss that he took on Saturday, and
you can't even complain. He lost the fight in his
home area, you know, and in the Hydro in Glasgow, Scotland.
That's been like his Fortress. That's where he got the
win against Caterall in the first fight. It's where he
fought a number of his major fights. So he's in
a situation where it's like, what do you do now?
He looked If you go back to the beginning of
the fight, TJ, I thought, Josh Harolel looked really good.
The first guy. He was winning the fight. He was
out boxing, he was out punching me, he was moving
him back, his defense was solid, his footwork was good.
Like he looked like, Okay, you know what, Josh looks
like he's here to make a statement to maybe he
won't get the knockout, but he's sure is going to
outbox this guy. And he did that for most of
the first half. And then you know, I don't know
if it was a matter of he got tired or
he just something happened, but the combination of that and
then of course, you know Essimon, you know, figures things out.
He said in his postmit interview, which I found to
be very interesting, and even though they had sparred and
known each other all those years ago as amateurs, that
he pulled some things out. He didn't specify, but there
was things that he noticed that were similar to what
he remembered from when they sparred. I don't know if
I necessarily buy that, you know, that's like a decade
ago probably, but regardless, he got the job done. And
I mean Taylor, you know, stormed out of the ring.
He didn't do an interview. We seemed very perplexed by
the scores. I thought they were perfectly fair. It was
eight to four on two cards and seven to five,
and one unofficial.
Speaker 1: Scorer on his own, whichever one was doing that had
Essamon winning the whole back half of the fight. So
I was and you.
Speaker 2: Said the same. Yeah, I mean, so you know, Taylor, Uh,
he's got some soul searching to do. As they say,
it's uh, you know again, I don't know if the
career is over, but the notion that he's going to
be the A side in the main event that ship
has probably saild. I mean, he's thirty four years old.
He's had some rough fights. He hasn't had a lot
of fights, but it's he's taken some damage in those fights.
But the thing that to me, and and he's like
the poster person for this, is the layoffs. TJ. We
talked about it every single week. It feels like Josh Taylor,
now part of this was not his fault. He was,
in my opinion, among the fighters that were most impacted
by the pandemic. I believe Josh Taylor is one of them.
One fight in twenty twenty and it was a first
round knockout against a horrendous mandatory. One fight in twenty
twenty one, that was the glory win against against Jose Ramirez,
but it was super close other than the knockdowns. Then
one fight in twenty two, that was the controversy against Catall.
One fight in twenty three, that was the loss against Tiakimo.
One fight in twenty four, we got wiped out by
Catera on the rematch, and now most likely going to
be this one fight in twenty five against Estumat. How
do you be at the top of your game if
you've had one fight in the last five years, six years.
Speaker 1: One fight a year, one fighting year.
Speaker 2: And it's not like you know he It just is
very very hard to do that. I mean, that's one
of the reasons why people talk about Canelo against Crawford,
and a lot of people have sort of been turning
towards Crawford because of the way Canelo looked in the
last fight. Crawford's in the same boat. He's barely fought
for years, right, it only had one fight at fifty four.
Now he's going to sixty eight. So Taylor, you know,
he didn't switch weight classes like that, just a one
weight class change in terms of this fight. But the
inactivity has absolutely destroyed Josh Taylor's career. Again, not all
his fault so was pandemic related to constant postponements and
then cancelation of the cateral rematch, issues with injuries, issues
with his opponent, issues with television issues, promoter issues, whatever.
But the end result is he fought barely at all
for the last number of years. So from his crowning
moment against Jose Ramirez, you know he didn't fight. Yes,
it's not he's not paying.
Speaker 1: We have seen. The better days were against Jose Ramirez
in that undisputed title win and obviously back now six
years ago against Regis Program in the World Boxing Super
Series unification title flight that he won. Those are his
best days. But that's a long time ago. It's it's somebody.
Speaker 2: Made the point to me on Twitter x earlier with
this loss by Josh Taylor, with the horrendous performance of
Jose Ramirez and two straight loss that he took both
again you know, in the fight against Devin Haney and
then previous to that against Arnold Barbosa, combined with the
tremendous off the cliff performances of Regi's program in his
last three fights or so, that that era, when they
were the three best fighters in the division, all undefeated,
all winning titles, all being involved in major fights, that
era is now done. Now. All three of those guys
are still probably going to continue to box, but the
notion of them beyond the top of the division, that's
all done. So they were the three best of their time,
but that time is now gone.
Speaker 1: Agreed all right on the undercard, and again, thank you
for finding us if you're watching us live. Some of
you were obviously seeing this later on. We did this
live on Sunday night. Thank you for finding us on
the YouTube page exclusively for those hearing us on podcast.
We did the show live on YouTube, so that's why
you hear us making reference to this. And we may
even sneak a comment or two in here from people
dan that are watching us live on YouTube, that are
chiming in with what we want to talk about. That
includes earlier in the card, heavyweight Moses Etam wiping out
another opponent, the American that he beat in the second round,
knocking down in the first round and then eradicated him
with a big right hand coming in Thomas twenty years old,
a lot of potential. Tell me what you saw. This
was expected and he delivered her.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean his opponent was Mike Balagun, forty one
year old fighter from Maryland, former professional football player, strong guy,
big heart, as Moses and Thomas said in his post
night interview, I think he spoke for everybody how shocked
he was when Balagun got off from the second knockdown.
He did show a lot of resolve and a lot
of heart, just did not have the skills or the chin,
frankly to compete. But when he got off from that
second knockdown, he actually went at atma and a desperation situation,
it felt like to me. But he did get into
a couple of shots that Toma didn't you know, see
phase whatsoever. And the remarkable thing is when he finally
put him down. I think this was the third knockdown.
Maybe it was a second knockdown. All I know is
he threw a shot off his back foot and it landed,
and he still put the guy down off his back foot.
Like in other words, he didn't have the momentum going
forward on the punch. You know, he didn't catch him
with the full force and it still dropped him. And
at that point, you know, that's the third knockdown he's
been getting, you know, hammered. And that was all she wrote. So,
like you said, he's twenty years old, he's now twelve
and hero with ten knockouts. Uh, you know, I'm I'm
I'm on the bandwagon. I picked him as the Prospect
of the Year in December, but I will slow the
role of everybody because I've been reading all the social
media and listening to the prost.
Speaker 1: Settled down, settle Down.
Speaker 2: He may be a tremendous prospect. I don't dispute that
he may be a future heavyweight world champion, but to
say that, dad's a guarantee that he is. Like the
next had.
Speaker 1: Some chucklehead mentioned the name Mike Tyson with you and
you had to, like you swapped me. You had to
swat that a little bit on settled down because he has.
Speaker 2: Never fought anybody. That's okay. He fought Marius Wack, who
like fifteen years ago was like a decent contender who
lost the clitch Goo in a final fight. But when
he fought him, he was like thirty eight and ten
and just a body waiting to be drilled, and that's
what happened. Demse McKean solid guy, but nothing to write
home about. Did go into the twelfth round against Philip
Perkovich and get stopped, and he took him out in
one round. That was impressive, okay, But Mike Baligan is
they only got him because he's got a good record.
He's never fought anybody. He's never shown any real boxing acumen.
You know, he comes in from football. He's a late bloomer,
late starter, if you will. So again, I'm not saying
anything negati about Atma. I can't wait to watch him again.
He's probably gonna be bad from what his manager was saying.
They're gonna put him and makes sense obviously. He's with Queensberry.
He'll be on the undercard for the rematch Queen Usk
and Dua in July for the underscrated heavyweight title. And
that's obviously the perfect spot for him, and maybe he
will become, you know, the big star in the heavyweight division.
But when I keep hearing people say he's like the
next global superstar, I laughed because in there's really basically
one global superstar in the whole sport. I mean that
they're few and far between. So I'm I'm I I
love him, but I'm tempering it until I see him
with an actual contender, an actual guy that is known
to the public, that has some level of accomplishment. Like
I saw people say, well, he would beat Hergebis, he
would beat Joseph Parker, he would beat Martin Bucoli, whatever,
all of these guys that were naming. So pay the
guy to get him in the ring and then we'll
see if he can do it. Now, I happen to
think he would annihilate Martin Bacoley, that's my opinion. I
don't know if he annihilates a quicker, a guy quicker
than Bacoli, with a lot more ability and a lot
more experience, like a Parker, you know, Hurgovic. Maybe you
never know. He's you know, he's been inconsistent. But again,
boxing as our as my dear friend Larry Merchant would
say boxing is a show in tel medium and show
wins exactly.
Speaker 1: And let me give you a quick example. Remember fans
in the recent Edgar Berlanga was flattening everybody in the
first round. Remember that, what was it, dan ten twelve
fourteen first round knockouts in a row. Remember there's backup
back a few years ago, back about three years ago,
and we kept saying, wait until he is in with
better competition and then let's see. And that is just
a classic recent example that while he's been good, he
hasn't been great. And the first round knockouts stopped, by
the way, the knockouts period stopped, by the way once
he started facing better competition. That's all you're saying here
with Atama.
Speaker 2: I'm just so again this is not, in any way
whatsoever a negativity about Atama. It's very hard to find
opponents from I get that the promoters are gonna have
to start to seriously overpay the opponents to get them
in the ring. I get all that. One thing that
really irritated me today was when it was announced that
that now the WBO has made him the number one contender.
Now I'm all for Moses Atama being in a fight
against a top condttor, but to tell me that he's
the man Tory challenger and that somebody might get stripped
of their title if they don't fight. This guy, to
me is loose because he hasn't earned the position in
any way.
Speaker 1: He hasn't beaten a top ten WBO fighter.
Speaker 2: Thats been the top twenty guy. Give me a break,
all right? So this just to be clear, not a
dump on Moses Atama.
Speaker 1: No, no, you said that.
Speaker 2: Love Moses Atama, but I need to see show me more.
His handler's got to do a better job of finding
him the opponent, and.
Speaker 1: There's time for that. He's the rest of this year,
he's twenty, and the rest of this year and early
next year you're gonna see whether he's got the goods
or not because he's gonna be in there against a
better opponent or two coming up.
Speaker 2: Would that all said? Next time Moses Atama is fighting,
it is must see be there. Well, unfortunately TV doesn't
rhyme with must see it's musty stream. I don't know
whatever you.
Speaker 1: Could say must see TV like NBC did, But must
be in the seed early because he's been ending fights
early tuned. All right, we go to Saturday night in Japan,
what was Saturday morning early for us, and Angelo lay
did defend the IBF Featherweight Championship by decision over Tomochikameeda.
I have to say this was not a thrilling fight.
There was some good action. Neither guy seriously hurt, neither
guy down. Leo the busier fighter, it looked like to me,
I thought this was a just decision going on the
road and winning in Japan. What are your thoughts in
the recap mode? Dan on Angelo Leo.
Speaker 2: I thought this was a really really professional, poised, measured performance.
I thought Angelo Leo fought a tremendous fight. I really did.
I mean, Cameida fought a good fight. Also, It's just
he's just not as good as Leo. He's a little older,
he's a little smaller, he's a little bit more shop worn.
He's had much more, uh you know, a mileage on
the tread as they say, so it's it's not even
a knock. I think Camada could still probably compete. It
just he hasn't been able to get over the hump
when he fights the better guys. And for Angelo Leo
to go to Japan of his own free will and
fight this mandatory fight. They could have tried to make
the fight in America. They would have certainly had the
better percentages in terms of their favor if it had
gone to a per spid, but they decided to go there.
Obviously he knows that it's the home country of in
a way who he did say he'd love to fight afterwards.
That's a fight that I think if you're you know,
anywhere in the one hundred twenty six pounds one hundred
twenty two pound region, that's the guy you want to fight.
He brings the money and the prestige and the name.
But he had to go take care committee went to Osaka, Japan.
Tomochi co made his hometown, you know, and he's not
fight a bum to made. It comes from a boxing family.
It's his family who runs the promotion company to put
on the event. He's a former world title holder in
the bantamweight division. And Angelo Leo, you know, have gloves,
will travel. I thought he fought a beautiful fight, as
you said, very just decision. It was a majority decision.
One judge did have it one fourteen to one fourteen.
The other two judges had it won sixteen one to
twelve in Leo's favor, one fifteen one to thirteen in
Leo's favor. That felt about right. We talked about the
range of acceptablet scores. I'm not even that at the
one fourteen one to fourteen, I get it. It was
you know, there's a couple of rounds that might have
gone either way. But I thought he did a tremendous job.
It was not like you said, it's not going to
be challenging for fight of the year. But it was
not by any means like an unwatchable, boring fight. This
was a very high class fight. And uh, you know,
especially in the second half of the fight. You know,
Angelo Leo did a really good job. You know in
they'll like say ten through twelve, nine through twelve, he
probably won at least you know, two or three of
those rounds. Assault it away and uh gets the job done.
And now he's onto, hopefully for his sake, bigger and
better things.
Speaker 1: And what those better Give me a quick answer. Would
those better things potentially be Rafia l Espinoza. You talked
in the preview mode, that's an easy fight to make
because they're both with top rank. Could a unification fight
be later this year. What's the guess, what's the educated guest, LEO.
Speaker 2: My guess is that probably won't happen. I mean, he's
co promoted by Top Rank. They still have, I guess
an option on the next fight he's really with Probox. Uh,
they'll look around and still you know, Top Rank will
have the first option to make something for him, and
maybe they'll try to make it with Espinosa. I just
I'd love to see it, but I just have my doubts, frankly.
And the reason I say that is because even though
for the dorks like us, it's an excellent matchup, it's
not a big enough money I don't think for either
guy uh to to take the gamble when they can
make better money fighting other guys in the division, and uh,
that won't that will be as lucrative. So you know,
I'd love to see it, but probably what I'll do
is he'll come back have another fight here in the
United States. He did sat talk about how he wouldn't
mind going back to Japan. Obviously there's you know, featherweight
action in the you know, in in the in the
in that part of the world. But he is I
think right now, based on the Lopez win, based on
traveling for this victory, you know, you can make the
argument it's it's either him or it's Espinosa, or is
the number one featherweight in boxing? Right now?
Speaker 1: You got Nick Ball as the w b A champion,
right that's the I.
Speaker 2: Don't know if I would put Nick ahead of the.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't put him in front of Leo or Espinosa
right now. Maybe we're biased a little bit because we're
in the US. The British, the British fans would put
him in front, but not US.
Speaker 2: I've never once in my days doing this, never given
a ship what nationality. The guy was from a Mexican,
Angelo is American, and the other guy Nick from from
from from England. So to me, you know, if you
can fight, you can fight. I couldn't care less where
you're from. But the bottom line is, however you rank them,
those are the three guys, obviously. I mean, I don't
think that's even a I don't even think that's a question.
Speaker 1: All right, we got two other results.
Speaker 2: And I just don't make clarify. Backing up one moment, yeap,
real quick. When I mentioned about Moses Tama being the mandatory,
He's not actually the mandatory. What he is is number
one in the WBO rankings. He won't become the mandatory
until they say you're the mandatory.
Speaker 1: And he presumably would have to beat someone in the
WBO rankings for that. All right, So there were two
other title fights on the undercart of the Lao win.
Pedro Tatteran defeated Shigi Yoka in a rematch and retained
his IBF strawweight title and also Friday Night Junior Banhamweight
will Baldo Willibaldo Garcia was a winner in the vacant
IBF Junior Banhamweight title fight with Renee Calisto. If that's
how you say it, correct me if I'm wrong. So
those are two other title fight wins. If you want
to give me a quick something on those, they can
read more on your substat because you're always recapping in
your social media. But those are the two other title fights,
since we're in the recap mode real quick.
Speaker 2: Well, in terms of the the the Tatara in chig
Yoga fight, this was another. This was a rematch. This
is when Tataran had fought him and stopped chig Yoka
back in July, uh to win the title. This is
the IBF Strawway title, so they were having an immediate
rematch and uh, you know, like I said, he stopped
him the first time. He didn't stop him in the rematch,
but he won the he won the split decision. But
the scary part about it, and it was a hard
hitting kind of fight. It wasn't like a brutal grind
him out physical you know, where both guys took excessive damage.
But what it was was was a very tough fight.
And and the frightening part about it was when they
were announcing the decision, or just about before they announced
the decision, chig Yoka collapsed in the ring. They literally
dragged him out on a stretcher.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not good.
Speaker 2: And I was kind of like surprised because I've seen,
unfortunately this happen in other fights. Typically the protocol is
they're real careful when they're putting him on the stretcher,
they've given him oxygen, and they were not careful. It
didn't seem to be putting him on the stretcher, and
there was no oxygen in sights. So that said, and
I didn't I have not personally discussed this with anybody
the Japanese Boxing Commission. What I saw in media from
Japan is that the Japanese Boxing Commission said that he
was in the hospital and in stable condition. So stay
a prayer for Shigioka. But that was a rough to fight.
In terms of the other bout that you mentioned, that
was a rematch of a draw that took place in December,
and this time it was that was also surprisingly in Japan.
But this time Garcia he gets to win a real,
you know, a good, competitive, entertaining fight. I actually thought
he won a little bit wider than what they ruled it. Nonetheless,
he gets the title. And if you remember we discussed
as beforehand, the title that he won was the one
that Fernando Puma Martinez vacated because he opted to take
the bigger money a higher profile rematch against Ioka instead
of the mandatory and so that became the vacant title fight.
And when they spot to a draw, then the IBF
ordered it to be a rematch, and that was what
took place on Friday. Good fight. And now here's the
the upshot of that is, I talked to the folks
that are involved with our boy will Lebaldo and he's
gonna be there in Frisco, Texas. Sit in the ring side.
They say to watch the fight that comes up in
a few weeks between Jesse Bam Rodriguez and Fromalayle Cafu,
who are meeting to unify two of the other titles,
and they want next like in other words, we want
the winner for a three belt unification. Obviously they're hoping
that it'll be Bam Rodriguez for the mere fact that
he brings a tremendous of money compared to Cafu. But
that's a great thing. If they can go and get
that match done, that would be you know, another significant
fight in the career of both guys. Obviously, Jesse Rodriguez
is you know, putting himself on the pound for poundless
in the recent fights, and if he can unify further
and move a step closer to undisputed, that would be
a big deal. And obviously, you know, if Garcia, you know,
who's got like five losses, he'd be a huge underdog.
But if he could pull it off, that that's a
that's a golden I can see making win.
Speaker 1: Golden ticket for Willibaldo Garcia again. IBF Junior bandamwaeight title
win for him on Friday. We strive to give you
all the names and all the recap stuff. Hey, you
want to do this for just a second. We're going
to get to the news in a second. But the
savages are everywhere and complimenting us left and right. I
don't even know where to begin, Julio says, Hey, Dan
and TJ. Awesome to see you guys live. Thank you. Julio.
On that, Martin in Florida waged in and said, Josh
is an old thirty four in the fight game, no
longer top tier. I think we agree with that, mister
big play. If I have this, mister big play, Bray says,
come in, hit the like button. Support these guys. We agree. Canada. Chris,
who's with us on other stats, says, Hey, I'm finally
on the YouTube live feed. Hit the like button. Share
it out, Canada, Chris again, we're doing this live. We're
doing it live, right, Phil, We're doing it live. Inside joke,
Let's see who else boxing. God was weighing in on
your point about inactivity and said Crawford looked ordinary in
his last fight. Canela looked ordinary in the last few years,
Crawford has much more tread on the tires. But how
do we know he hasn't been active, which was what
your point was earlier, right, say.
Speaker 2: What I mean? Look, I mean, I'm not sitting here
saying I'm not I'm not saying Crawford can't win the
fight or anything like that. I'm just making the point
about the activity level. And that might be a reason
why he looked a little rough against madgemup and it
was a new weight class also, And as far as
you know, Canelo Alvarez goes he's got five hundred rounds
as a professional, and you know, and he has been active.
He has been consistently fighting twice a year, which is
by our standards today.
Speaker 1: Yes, by the way, Lee says, agreed with Dan, twenty
years old, has so much time. He's talking about Moses E.
Tama would like to see him against Jermaine Franklin next.
I don't know if that does enough for us, but.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that that'd be actually a big step
up for him. I mean, I think I'm not sure
why they picked out Franklin specifically. I'll theorize and say
because Franklin at least had some notoriety within the British
public because he did give, you know, a pretty decent
fight to Anthony Joshua, and there'd be some comparisons made.
And you know, he's a reputable heavyweight. He's not like
an elite heavyweight, but he's certainly not a bum or
anything like that. He's you know, he's a credible guy.
He had a good amateur career. He's fought some good
fighters in the professional ranks, so that would be considered
a big step up.
Speaker 1: So people, people that put down the hot dogs and
the beer, and they are flocking to ray Field's Live.
Ray Field's Live, all right, so they're flocking to you.
Dank Kidd says, thanks for the live pod. Excited to
see more. We thank you, Dank Kidd. Who else? Joey says,
I'm commenting for the algorithm Great stuff, guys. Yes, put
the comments down below the video. Even if you're seeing
us after the fact and we're not getting your live comment,
comment below the video. That helps out as well. There
are more weighing in. Let's see who else. J Deep
wants to know. I'm gonna go see the Mission Possible
movie tomorrow. Many have already seen it. He wants to
know what Todd Cruz make a good prize fighter. I
don't know. Well, wait a minute, wasn't he in it
wasn't the Nicole Kidman movie After Days of Thunder, the
Far and Away movie. Wasn't he a fighter? He was
a bare knuckle fighter in that movie.
Speaker 2: Here's the point. He does a lot of wacky stunts
in these.
Speaker 1: Missions, but they're all six stunts.
Speaker 2: Right, But he could play the fan man in boxing. Uh.
Speaker 1: Julio wanted to know unification next for Angelo Leo. We
talked about that.
Speaker 2: Probably not uh, probably, that's just my impression.
Speaker 1: That you didn't think it would be the case.
Speaker 2: I mean, I hope it would be. There would be
a unification that would.
Speaker 1: Be were We got comments galore. All right, so we're
good on that. Let's get to a little news, shall we.
Tyson Fury took to social media. He's on vacation right
and says, I am retired. And as I just put
up there on the screen for the video audience and
the pots can't see it. No one still believes him.
Dan Rayfield that he's retired, I believe.
Speaker 2: Look when he announces his retirements, we cover it and
we mock him, and when he says he's now definitely retired,
the opposite and we you know, we can do the same.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: It's news when when he says this, because the reason
because we still think he will fight one more time.
There's that Gargantua and Payday sitting there waiting against Anthony Joshua,
which will be a humongous fight for the sport. I've
said this before. I believe that the two fighters, they
owe it to everybody to do this one fight. And
I don't say that a lot about fighters. They don't
really owe us anything. But because the way Fury dicked
us around for all these years with a lot of fights,
he does I think it Joshua he wants to fight
at this point finally, But the bottle.
Speaker 1: He's hurt, Joshua, he's not.
Speaker 2: He's not hurt where it's gonna impact the ability for
him to get back in the ring later in the year.
But anyway, Tyson Fury was on vacation uh at Lake Como, Italy.
I guess they have a grand pre race there also,
and he was taken in the F one race and
he made the video where you know, if you watch
the video, it's on his social media channels. You know,
he's got the perspective where he's looking out on the
lake and it's beautiful scenier, and he's talking about how
nice the vacation is and what a scene. And he says, hey,
there's been a lot of discussion that I might be
coming back to boxing. Well, time out. This is my
my I'm inserting the comment. The reason is because you're
the one that went on a social media video a
month ago and made the video with you and sugar
Hill Stewart in the gym talking about how you were
coming back and that you know, you were here getting
we're going to do some work and this and that.
So you led everybody to believe, you know, overtly you
went about to end your retirement, and so when people
talk about that, you can't say that that's anybody's fault
but yourself.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 2: That's besides the point. So he says, you know, what
do I need to come back for just to get
punched in the face. Blah blah blah. He says, so
here we are, and I quote from the video, I'm
retired and I'm staying retired. I've got nothing to prove
to anybody and nothing to return for God bless you all,
see you on the other side. And I'll just say this,
if Tyson Fury is serious, I mean, I'd still hope
he would reconsider and fight the Joshua fight and then
go and enjoy his retirement. But if that is in
fact the end of it, what can you do. You
can't make a guy fight. He had a hell of
a career he made, you know, both.
Speaker 1: Got arguably a fifty million dollar payday to fight Anthony
Joshua or whenever josh was healthy. I will believe in
January of next year, when he hasn't fought, that he's retired.
Until January, as I put there on the screen, I'll
give it another eight or nine months, and if he
hasn't fought, then I'm buying he's retired. Stay tuned. That's
my thought. That's my thought on that.
Speaker 2: I mean, but he could just as well wake up
and make a video saying exactly the opposite in a
couple of days.
Speaker 1: Of course he could. One other nugget. Canelo was at
a media gathering right at a golf tournament over the weekend,
and Canello said to the media, it's there on the
screen say it for the pod audience. What did Canelo
say to the media.
Speaker 2: Well, he was asked about his boxing future, and we
all know he's fighting Terrence Crawford. It's not a matter
of who he's fighting or even when he's fighting. It's
in September, but there's been a lot of discussion about
where the fight's going to take place because of Turkey
al Sheik having announced that it would be first on
September twelfth at the Allegiant Stadium in Las Vegas, and
then soon thereafter saying no, no, no, hold up, it's
not going to be at the Allegiance Stadium. It's going
to be on Saturday, September thirteenth. And oh, by the way,
it might be in at Las Vegas. I might be
in New York, it might be in La it might
be I don't know, on the Moon. Anyway, when when
Canela was asked this in this little media gathering, he said, no,
it's going to be in Las Vegas. So he contradicted,
you know, whatever Turkey al Sheika was saying, although he
did was asked about working with Turkey and doing the
skull fight, and you know, he said, everything is good.
You know it was a good experience, but you know,
it needs I'm paraphrasing, it needs to be in Las Vegas.
That's where my people are, That's where we're going to
have the fight. So you know this, This whole rollout
of this fight, which is a big fight, has been
to be charitable, handled like a hand grenade exactly because.
Speaker 1: They are as Chris Berman used to do the highlights
on NFL Primetime of the NFL Football game, stumbling, bumbling,
rumbling out of the gates right now on how to
promote this. Oh, I know you said this, you said this.
There are so many compelling reasons of financial and otherwise
to have it in Vegas. And uh, just because they
haven't said that it's definitely in Las Vegas doesn't mean so.
And I tend to believe Canelo on this it's going
to be in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: It probably will be. But I just know this. I've
seen any number of Mega fights rolled out, and this
one has been. Uh, it's not like negative about the fight.
It's not nobody's it's not it's not a negativity towards
them doing the matchup that some people are really into
for their own reasons. But you want to have all
your ducks in a row and launch it in a
big way with a big press conference, with a big
media tour with uh, you know, a lot of interviews
with a lot of you know, the nice artwork and
all the different things, and give clarity so your fans
who you want to come to your event and buy
tickets and hype everything up and get excited so they
know where they can get a hotel room, so they
know where they can of course, you know, get an airplane,
you know, if they're gonna fly, so they can maybe
find a you know, a place to buy their tickets
instead of leaving everybody hanging. And it's, uh, it's disappointing
because this is it should be should be. I mean,
we'll see what happens, but it should be the biggest
fight of this year, the biggest, Yeah, you've been of
this year.
Speaker 1: I would think this is the biggest fight that can
be in North America. Whether it's this year or next year,
this is the biggest one that's out there.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's one of the biggest fights, you know,
in the in recent years. Yeah, I think in America
it's probably the biggest fight. You tell me if I'm wrong.
I'm just off the top of my head. I'm thinking
biggest fights since Crawford and Spencer.
Speaker 1: And we were there together the one time that we've
been together, that was two years ago. But yeah, there's
not another you could say before that in this century.
And we have to qualify this way. It's Fury and
Wilder in this country. Certainly, Oo Sick and Fury twice
has been a bigger deal worldwide, we agree on that,
but in this country. The Canelo Clawford fight in North.
Speaker 2: America, Canelo against Caleb plant for undisputed was a pretty
big fight. Also, Yeah, Scout, it's had a massive gait,
had a It did a much bigger pay per view
than uh then the then the third Fury and uh
and Wilder fight, so that was a big YAlO. So
I'm only making the point though, whatever order you put
it in, they need to get this situated so we
have clarity of when and where that this big fight
is going to take place.
Speaker 1: By the way they're taking swings at me and you
love this on on all fronts. On the Live Video Canada,
Chris wants to know, uh TJ, how many hats you
got back there behind the screen rightfield looks at this
all the time when we're on the video hook up.
They don't see it on the bet Us show, but
now you're seeing it on the last show. I wear
a lot of hats, as you can see back there,
and I kind of have some rankings with my Lightning,
my my rays, my buck anders.
Speaker 2: Uh. You know, I used to do the old Boxing
Beat show when when when uh, when ESPN Plus was
first created and they were filling spots and needed uh
pro content content. I did like the boxing interview show
there for a while, and every single episode that we
would do, I would you know, I had a set
up in my basement. They had set up a guest
room with a nice studio and all the accouterments and everything. Anyway,
every single side put a different boxing hat.
Speaker 1: That's the way to be. And we see all the
bibbleheads up above you. By the way, it looks like
bibbleheads or books up above you on the bookshelf.
Speaker 2: Whatever. That is so not of boxing stuff.
Speaker 1: That's that is uh Dank Kidd wants to know, is
uh Turkey Alshi trying to put the fight in Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2: That's not kind of No, I don't think that's the
case when he made his list of the places that
was UH that he thought were the likely candidates, Saudi
Arabia was never mentioned. This fight is not in my
I mean, you never know, I guess, but since the
it was formulated and Turkey became involved, it was always
UH situated as an American bas fight. I mean, frankly,
you know it would make no sense to have this
happen in Saudi Arabia because you're not You're leaving. I
mean again, I know that Saudis aren't as concerned with
the dollars as as other promoters are, but I don't
know anybody that's just gonna like for no reason.
Speaker 1: I don't know that the fighters would agree to that.
I don't know that Crawford and Canelo agreed to it
in the first place, or would agree to this fight
being in different matter. But I wouldn't want that fight here.
Speaker 2: So if you put the fight in Las Vegas at
the tem Mobile Arena, you'll do a twenty five million dollars. Yeah,
there's no place else that will do that kind of money,
not even close, mister. Put them in the grounds, including,
by the way, the Allegiance Stadium.
Speaker 1: Okay, any truth to the rumor that Boots turned down
the Taya Femo Lopez fight. While we do this live tonight,
do we know that he turned it down.
Speaker 2: I've not heard that he's turned it down. I mean
there's I don't know there was even an offer made
for the t Femo Lopez fight.
Speaker 1: So for Boots Sennis, you know j deeps already got
an early prediction in Saintes Zusig beats to Bois in
the rematch tenth round, Tko take him to the bank
by a lottery ticket. Uh, all right, let's get to
some nostalgia. Shall wait tonight as you and I sit
here and do this. On May the twenty fifth, twenty
twenty five, is the sixtieth anniversary of Muhammad Ali and
Sonny liston brief as it was.
Speaker 2: By the way, before you go any further, No, I
was not there.
Speaker 1: You did not cover neither neither. Neither of us were alive,
and a lot of the audience watching us is not alive.
Speaker 2: I was negative five, you and I both.
Speaker 1: And so that night in a little town called Lewiston
in Maine, at a youth hockey center May twenty five,
nineteen sixty five, and we'll get into that here in
a second, Ali defeats Listen with what was regarded then
regarded after in the short term and has been regarded
for six decades since as a phantom type punch. Was
it really a big enough punch to have scored a
first round knockout? Okay, so let's have fun with the
savages for a couple of remaining moments here. I hope
you can see this, but it is on the screen.
Dan raype feel on the sixtieth anniversary of Ali Listen.
Can you see the picture? We were rehearsing this before
the show. You can't see the picture, but the audience presumably.
I'm double checking on YouTube that the audience can see
this or truly we do have radio on TV, so
I want to double check. Yeah, it's there on the
YouTube feed. I don't know why you can't see it.
It's a clitch, it's a grimlin, but it's Ali standing
over Listen in color photo. The iconic photo from Neil
Leifer for Sports Illustrated of him standing over him in
the first round. Incredible moment, incredible photo. Award winning photo
made Neil Leifer's career that he got that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're looking at the I just clicked on
the YouTube channel, so I.
Speaker 1: Say, yes, you see the photo there it is.
Speaker 2: So if you take a look between Muhammad Ali's.
Speaker 1: Legs, I'll point to it on the screen.
Speaker 2: If that looks like he's about to take a picture
talking to a microphone, I'm not sure which it is.
He's wearing glasses. See what I'm talking about. There's a
now tip behind that man on his slightly to his right,
there's another man with curly hair and his mouth open like,
oh my god. Like look at the knockdown.
Speaker 1: Right Between's legs. If we can't point to it with
the cursor and you're not seeing it right between Ali's legs,
look at the head beside the guy with the glasses.
Go ahead, that's Larry Merchant right there in the middle. Yes, sir,
that's amazing that he was ringside for that fight sixty
years ago.
Speaker 2: And Larry's the way what and I don't even think
this is arguable. This is the singular most iconic boxing
photo in this isue.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I.
Speaker 2: Don't know what else, what's in what's second, what's.
Speaker 1: I don't know what would be there? And and so
from those at ringside that could hear him. Ali was
yelling at Listing, get up, Get up, you chump, get up.
And you see him on that photo with the mouth
open yelling at him about get up.
Speaker 2: Uh. So that just put this in context. Yeah, you
go jump crazy all over the place. It was in
February of nineteen sixty four where Ali, then Cash's Clay,
scored the monstrous upset of Sonny Listen in the sixth
round where he quit on the stool to win the
heavyweight championship in the first place. And this was the
immediate rematch that took place in May of nineteen sixty five.
And in the you know, right after he had won
the title from Listen, is when Cashus Clay changed his name,
you know change The first was cash as X and
he then he you know, proclaimed to clashes Muhammad Ali
rather and you know, converted to Islam, and that became
obviously a huge international story. And so this was his
first fight after not only winning the title in the rematch,
but also the conversion of his religion and changing his name,
and a lot of people, unfortunately it's an embarrassing thing
for people in my walk of life as a journalist
who refused to acknowledge him as Muhammad Ali, and years
and years went by where people were still referring to
him as Clay, which was extraordinarily disrespectful. But that's besides
the point. But anyway, so this fight happened. You mentioned
about how it took place in Lewis and Maine. There
was an attendance PJ of twy four hundred and thirty
four for this kind of heavyweight, So it was supposed
to be in the Boston Garden.
Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna say. So let's go over
that for just a second while we're doing nostalgia before
we're done. They wanted to fight in Boston, but they
could not get licensed in Massachusetts as there were historical
for the promoters, right.
Speaker 2: It was related to the issues related to the WBA,
related to the Massachusetts Commission. Uh, they were concerned about lawsuits.
There was a lot of you know, minutia related to
like legality things about it and so uh and and
also the original date was postponed because Ali had a
medical issue and it prevented the fight from taking place
on the original date. And when they went to reschedule
it and still tried to do it at the Boston Garden. Uh,
it just wasn't gonna happen, and so they wanted someplace
that was still in that I guess market, and Lewis
and Maine is not that far from Boston, but then
there wasn't they had to fight a place that was available.
So they put this fight in Lewis and Maine. And
it's like one of the craziest things. And you know
that you could have because you could have obviously put
a big crowd. And then the other thing about it,
by the way, even though Ali had stopped Sonny Listen
in their first fight and became the champion, the public
wasn't believing what they saw was real because Sony Listen
went into the rematch as still a heavy favorite in the.
Speaker 1: Fight, yep, because he was such a menacing fighter. So
this was in a youth hockey center in Lewiston, Maine,
on a weeknight with fewer than two thousand people in
twenty four hundred announced I mean for the heavyweight the
world god including Larry Merchant being there, Howard Cosell there,
all right, so we're gonna do something now for the
audience on the subject of was it a phantom punch
or not. Let's take a look through the magic of video.
This is the old video from the closed circuit that's
out there that's available on the internet. The punch is
upcoming here with the right hand. Right about as they
turned back around and Listen has his back to the camera.
Here comes the quick right hand and was this I'm
gonna try to freeze it? Was that a punch and
we see the list in reaction. But I mean, for
all time, Liston is rolling around, like I like to say,
Rayphael like a beached whale. Jersey Joe Walcott, the former
heavyweight champ, is the ref trying to get Ali to
go to the corner and look at Listen flopping around
with Ali doing circles. What a message, crazy moment, Go ahead.
Speaker 2: Jersey Joe might have been a great heavyweight.
Speaker 1: As I like to say, I'll spell it l O
st lost as.
Speaker 2: The referee issues with how he handled this.
Speaker 1: Because right here, for example, for the video audience, they're
seeing it. For the podcast on inter not seeing it,
we're showing the freeze frame of Walcott looking over at
the timekeeper who is standing up on the apron waving
at him, and so the timekeeper saying I counted to ten, which,
by the way, that shouldn't have mattered. It should only
have been the referees count. So Walcott is now going
to leave the frame here and to the timekeeper and
they start fighting again.
Speaker 2: If he doesn't pick up the count by ten, which
is ridiculous, the fight would be over. But I've never
seen a referee not pick up the count before ten.
You know, I've seen guys pick it up at five,
not at ten. It was just the whole thing was
handled garbage. It was just terrible.
Speaker 1: We look at it one more time for the video audience.
Do you believe I'm gonna put it on the screen?
Is this a real punch? Dan Rayphiel Ali called it
the anchor punch after the fight here it comes short
right hand. Look, do we believe that's a real punch.
Speaker 2: I do think it's a real punch. Now there's a difference.
Is it a real punch and is it a punch
that it's big enough to actually.
Speaker 1: To make a man do what Sonny Liston is doing.
Speaker 2: Right? Okay, here's my perspective. Okay, if a real punch
actually connected, may have even legitimately knocked him down. But
when he got to the way he got to his
knees and then fell over. That seemed to be uh,
a little bit over the top. So I feel like
he was pressured as you do the reading and the
research that the mafia and and all that they were involved.
And you know, there's a the old sportswriter Mark Kram
from s I who wrote the famous book about from
Joe Fraser's point of view about the thriller in Manila.
He wrote, and I don't know if it's believable, because
Mark Kram sometimes the things he wrote later after he
was long gone became a little bit up for debate,
said that Sonny Listen told him that Muhammad Ali was
crazy and that he didn't want anything to do with him,
and that the Muslims were coming up, meaning into the ring.
Who needs that? So I went down and I wasn't hit.
And I don't know if Sonny Listen is all that believable.
Also in his own involvement with with Chris.
Speaker 1: Or organized crime, and again, if you were going to
fix a fight, this is how you would do it,
where everybody's loaded up on the favorite and then you
as the mob, fixed the fight and have all your
money on Island Lee and a knockout in the first round,
or at least a knockout. Crazy that that was sixty
years ago.
Speaker 2: It is though it is other. I mean I take
controversial decisions out of the out of the equation. You know,
a A A holy Field Lewis draw scorecard, Whittaker against
Julio Says Chavas or any other of the massive controversies that.
Speaker 1: We controversy with Chavez stoppage of Meldrick Taylor, there's controversy
with that.
Speaker 2: Well, say this is this is one of the most
controversial endings of a fight ever. I would say, other
than me.
Speaker 1: I think it's the most controversial ending of any heavyweight
title fight. You can certainly say that. Then you can
argue Chavez Taylor on that. And uh, just one more
point about all of this is but this was though
that decision, it was right. But bear in mind the
public could not see this except the closed circuit broadcast.
There's no internet. There's no showing of this on the
local news. So the newspaper is writing about it where
everybody would write about it. The radio is talking about it.
And it was several weeks later that ABC with Howard
Cosell showed the video that we just showed you and
had a great debate. You can go on YouTube and
watch the debate from that program where co Sal's got
Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano and a couple of other
guests debating was it really a punch or not. My
point is the public was literally in the dark on
being able to see it and see what happened for
so long that it added to the lore and the
thought that this was fixed.
Speaker 2: So one of the things when you mentioned about it
being available to the public on a closed circuit basis,
that's one of the reasons why they moved it to
Lewis and Nane, because they wanted to preserve that closed
circuit date because even with a big crowd, they're probably
going to generate more of the money through a close
circuit around the country than they would have just in
the one location. So therefore they kept it on that
date and still made it available on close circuits. If
you're watching it a movie theater, it doesn't matter to
you if it's taking place in Lewis and Maine or
the Boston Garden or on Metrial. So that was a
big part of their decision to do that. It's it's
a lot of business and a lot of you know,
intricate things that were involved with the reasons why it
landed there in the date and everything, but the fight itself,
you know, crazy, you know. I again, I think it
was I think the punch was legit that and knocked
and down. I'm just not sure that Sonny Listen gave
the effort to try to beat the count chaos.
Speaker 1: Go back and relive it if you want on YouTube.
We relived it tonight. With that, we have done well
with our Fight Freaks Ugh Night Recap live show on
YouTube now. You may be seeing it on demand later
on on Sunday night of Memorial Day weekend on Monday,
et cetera. For the podcast audience, you can come see
the video that we were just talking about. Come to
the Big Fight Weekend YouTube page and see what we
were talking about, including the photo of Ali overlisted in
the video. So Dan, great stuff, great stuff with this tonight. Again.
For the YouTube audience, hit subscribe on the channel that
helps us. Hit the like button comment below the finished
video as well. That will help in the algorithms. We'll
do some more live creative things here on the channel.
We have a lot of nostalgia on the channel under
the video section. I love putting the nostalgia.
Speaker 2: That go ahead, yeah, I'll give them a little pop
because coming up this coming Saturday, of course, is the
return to the ring for Kayleb Plant and also Jamal
Strullo and they're a double header and if they both win,
they'll fight each other. But a few videos back on
this here YouTube channel is my interview with Kayleb Plant.
You can watch. We've played the audio on the pod
we on the last show, but you can certainly check
out the video of.
Speaker 1: So that that video is still sitting there, and again
we encourage you to check that out. You're gonna see
other unique content, other interviews Dan is doing by video.
We'll put those on the YouTube Chanel channel. Be subscribed,
Be subscribed and you get an automatic notification when something
is new on the channel as well. So great stuff
with that for the pot audience. Thank you for hanging
make sure you're following and subscribing YouTube audience. Thank you, Dan.
Have a great rest of the Memorial Day weekend. Everybody
remember what the holiday is all about. It is kind
of somber, but you also want to celebrate the remembrance
and the lives of those that we've lost as well
on the holiday. I had a great time talking fights tonight.
Thank you for accommodating me, and thank you to the
YouTube audience as well. Dan, anything else, are we good?
Speaker 2: Yourself? A good weekend? Going join you.
Speaker 1: As well, And yes, Mission Impossible movie in the Reef's household,
like a lot of other people coming tomorrow. Can't get
that done tonight, but coming to morrow, Big Dan. Thank
you Caleb plant Week for his main event later this week,
as well as some other fights hanging there for us.
And we've been with you tonight on the YouTube channel
with the Fight Preaks Tonight Recap podcast and show. The
pod audience, thank you for being with us as well.
Good Night,